wdym = Someone has dejavu when seeing kris, asks them "Hey hasnt this happened before?" even though its the player's first run. But for her, well, he allready did the thing some number of times.
I think there are 2 things to note here: 1) Normally if you do a run of Undertale, you can't change the name, but you chose a new one after doing a no-save run. Probably an oversight though. 2) The auto-save was probably done to prevent players from breaking the plot through not saving after Asriel and battling him the second time without a True Reset. But also there'd need to be a separate Flowey warning made for people who completed the game without any saves.
Not true actually! You can still totally break plot progression by closing the game after the Asriel fight and doing a normal, non-true reset on the now full menu. All you gotta do is remember to not get the credits first.
@@stormy_does_stuff yeah he says something like “I would have control over your SAVE file… but you were too STUPID to make one!” (Of course he makes fun of you for it)
I'm glad to see someone start taking Kris' save file into the larger plot. I will be shocked if we don't switch lead characters at some point, the plot of the game is building to it very clearly.
i didn't even think about the concept of switching lead characters really, other than the concept of controlling the vessel in a boss fight against kris. full-on swapping to another character would be AWESOME
Someone online noticed that the clocks on the different buildings are discoordinated and show different times. This reinforces the theory that Kris can save in the Light World. Remember what Sans in Undertale said about time jumping and shifting?
he talked about timelines, not time within one timeline. Clocks showing different time is not related to that, plus how could anybody not notice areas basically time travelling? Not how saving is (known) to work. Although this reminds me of sunless skies, where people mine hours and then do time shenanigans, so then other people have to go around the land and synchronise clocks, when time literally passes differently in different areas.
@@plushloler Yeah, the mechanics of "time travel" or rather saving and loading work less like going back in time that influences some future but rather it's played with in a more physical sense. Each run of undertale is a different series of events in the same starting state of a universe. Not the same universe, as Gaster's story eludes to each player's playthrough being its own contained world. The same would be assumed for Deltarune as Gaster is an influence here as well. Just a new starting state. When you save and load you really just manipulate the world into being in the state that it was, what you had done is erased. Cast into non-existence. As for what the clocks mean, couldn't say. Time as a theme is something I have no doubt will play a role over the course of the full game. I don't think to the extent of different areas having been rolled back in time, but going back and forth through the week (almost like a groundhog's day) to perfect your relationship with the town's people.
If time jumps forward, wouldn’t that be for the whole world? Not one part. In my experience, clocks in schools not working or being at the wrong times/not synchronized is perfectly normal.
Given that Dess already has save-file-adjacent shenanigans what with being seemingly stuck in the code and all, later loading/saving/playing as her would make sense.
I can't wait to see what eldritch shenanigans we can get up to in future chapters! Saving and manipulating the Light World the same way we do the Dark Worlds would be an insane plot point, and some final showdown against Kris to take control over the savefiles of the game would be wild.
So.. I guess when the full game is out someone will have to complete the game without saving over or deleting Kris' save just to see if anything happens
This really reminds me of Ben Drowned and how the protagonist of the creepypasta tries to override Ben's save file, it's curious how the Weird Route is pretty "creepypasta-like" getting a secret item by doing something weird, a story were characters go crazy, kill monsters in a pretty happy cute world, the world changing forever, etc.
I gotta say, saving over Kris's save feels SUPER invasive, like we're really treading all over their own life. Especially since you probably won't even notice it the first play through so it's like you wiped out a chunk of their life without even noticing, which is pretty guilt-inducing.
Considering the text for your first interaction with the first Save Point, I think Kris still saves at Save Points. But only they can see the Light World Save Points, while Kris and the Player together see the Dark World Save Points
Undertale save points are yellow (probably light world save points) and Deltarune ones are white So maybe Plus it does say that you're filled with POWER not determination
@@BaaarisaKirisame The game takes very precise effort to NOT name drop Determination in their save points. Following this video's theory, I believe that this is done on purpose by Kris, in order to hide this fact from us. So, while they may be able to save in both the Light and Dark Worlds, they never inform the player how. From Kris's perspective, this is a secret they intend to keep.
I agree that the power mentioned in the save points IS probably determination. However as far as the text you mentioned is concerned... Kris is a teenager in the middle of puberty. The fact he's filled with a "certain power" upon seeing giant hot mama legs isn't a hinting towards determination but to something else i'm afraid...
The recent localization book has an interesting section about how determination and SAVE works. It clarifies in Undertale that its the player's physical determination that allows you to save with Frisk just being along for the ride. This does not appear to be the case with Kris though because they had a save in the dark world and saved between chapters. I've been thinking about that ever since chapter 2 released.
It's about time someone questions this. I mean hell, the dialogue in Chapter 1 when you get to the 'first' save point refers them to the 'light only you can see', _heavily_ implying Kris knows what they are, and has used them before. Why this hasn't been theory fuel until now I have zero clue.
i imagine it would happen if kris removes their soul in the dark world, which could _technically_ happen during the roaring (the two worlds would probably collide during the roaring so you aren't really in either which one)
@@clawcakes2 would be sick if the soul turns into the vessel or smth and you fight with kris, since youve made the desicions to get kris here in the first place so kris would probably get your vessel for extra help during the roaring
All those default choice things really help with a thought I'd had. I'm still holding on to the hope that the vessel makes an appearance, and having the choices saved even if you skipped over making them is reassuring. I'd figured being able to skip them meant they really were discarded. Shouldn't have assumed I know what Toby will and won't do in the background.
You know, I always took the Kris save in chapter 2 meant they went to the school to save in the closet during the night, as the save location will always be the castle town before you rewrite it. As the until you rewrite the save file, it will show the previous location saved at. So maybe the closet just unlocked itself (I mean it was unlocked before and then just locked, and it is magical and stuff) or maybe Kris has the keys to the closet being the child of the head teacher.
@@123phi123 Hmm.. It looked like someone deliberately closed the doors on Susie and Kris, right? Though it could be Dark World shenanigans. If that is something that happened though, were they someone who could actually lock it? People have theorized on how the only two people who'd possibly have any motive to lock the two of them together are the Knight, having just finished their business in the Card Kingdom Dark World, and... Alphys, considering the usage of her smug portrait when you talk to her in chapter 2, not interacting her in the alleyway the day before, as if everything went according to plan. Well I guess Alphys and the Knight could also be the same person, but.
My biggest curiosity with all of this is Chapter 0. What does that imply? I've been hoping there was going to be a chapter entirely devoted to the Light world (possibly exploring things like the bunker, what happened with Asgore's incident, the lake, Susie's home life, a moving pizza box with ICE-E's face on it being buried in a graveyard, etc.) and while I hoped it was in the next 3 chapters, I have a feeling that maybe we'll be exploring it even more in this "Chapter 0". If 3-5 are being released soon, maybe 6, 7, and 0 will also get released together. That's just a hunch though. I definitely think there's going to be a major divergence with save files though. That seems increasingly likely considering just how much effort Toby put in to force the player to save over Kris's file.
one thing worth keeping in mind: gamemaker is 0-indexed, meaning the first element of an array isn't 1, but 0. you can see this when bread mentions that save8 is the _ninth_ savefile, as that's something similar. so, it's not unlikely that toby just wanted to be able to use the player's current chapter without having to +1 it when writing the number in text or -1 it when looking up the chapter name, so he just put in a filler string for the first element of the array to avoid any issues that would come from referencing it hell, it wouldn't surprise me if the 0th chapter is actually _used,_ all things considered, because " - - " works perfectly fine as a player-visible "blank" string. like, if the player is ever shown the name of their current chapter, but they haven't actually _started_ a chapter, then they wouldn't think twice if a spot that usually said "[The Beginning]" or "[A Cyber's World]" just showed "[ - - ]" instead
@@hi-i-am-atan Ykw that is true. It is odd how he's assigned so many values to specifically the 0th chapter, but from a game designer's perspective that makes sense. I wouldn't put it past him to use even something like that too considering how far he's already gone in the code for Deltarune's narrative thus far. But if it was just a placeholder, I could see how we're looking at details that are just meant to be overlooked.
If there is a chapter zero, I would love it if it only appeared at the end of the game, and it was a sort of flashback that happened before the first chapter, and would possibly show the personalities of Asriel and Dess if they haven't already been met by the end of chapter 7.
Another nugget of info that is that Kris at the start of chapter 1 is at level 1 - As they have not shut down any Dark Fountains For chapter 2 they're Level 2 - as they've shut down one Dark Fountain You only level up after you close a Dark Fountain in a Dark World and that Level only carries foward between Dark Worlds. It is possible that through Kris, Noelle's level goes to two. As in Kris/The player in being the Party Leader pushes everyone's level to their own. That does happen in some RPG games where party members, especifically new party members, scale to the level of the main character. While I disagree with you on Kris being able to SAVE on the Light World, as Kris doesn't seem very Determined to Save character-wise and something on the Undertale Book Legends of Localization 3 seems to imply that the ability to SAVE is triggered by something on the Underground - That is to say Kris wouldn't even be able to SAVE in Deltarune even if it did follow the same rules as Undertale, at least not in the same manner via a Yellow Save Point like Frisk did. Regarding the Vessel Creation at the very start it couldn't be Kris's choices as it's Gaster directly contacting The Player directly, even going as far as taking over the official Twitter Account. It is possible this is Gaster's choices for a Vessel given The Player's behavior in Undertale and a complete lack of response from them, just Gaster guessing what The Player would like. At the start Gaster even asks if we, Gaster and The Player, are connected. The Player was brought in Deltarune to create a New Future with Gaster, whatever that means. So For Kris's Save Data on Chapter 1 that leaves two possible answers; Either Kris has been in a Dark World before, Saved and somehow got out without shutting down a Dark Fountain - By this you could say that Kris and Dess at some point fell down into the Bunker and there's a Dark World there, Dess got lost but Kris managed to get away, maybe they even feel a bit guilty about it. It would be in-character, tie Kris and Noelle together in the story, explain Kris's possibly weird behavior, maybe it'd explain Kris already tearing their SOUL out in the past as it is implied by the Birdcage - If the SOUL is the source of all emotions by tearing it out you don't feel guilty, you don't feel like you miss your brother, you don't feel weird about being a Human in a town of Monsters, you don't feel depressed or anything which is sort of the vibe Kris gives at the start of the story - someone who has been depressed for some unknown time with no motivation or anything else in their lives. The other answer is that it could be due to a Timeloop reset - It's a long complicated theory but it *could* explain some of Kris's behavior acting as if they know what's going to happen when through the end of Chapter 1 and Chapter 2. But one thing that would be inconsistent would be how a Reset save file looks like, although in Undertale we never get our Save File reset by an outside force - only The Player can reset their Save File. Flowey saves over ours it doesn't get reset. For Chapter 2's Kris Save data it can explained by Kris going outside, maybe visiting Ralsei in the dead of the night for whatever reason. This would explain Kris more tired than usual at the school morning, sleeping through the entire period instead of just the first class. It is even possible Kris was the one who cut the the town's internet connection that night. As for Castle Town's Doors being closed I'm not really sure what to make of that since they're not really regular doors, not even in how they look, but to me it seems like Ralsei has the Power to close the Doors whatever he wants. We see this in Chapter 2 after leaving to do Homework the door is locked which is a way for Ralsei to "Force" Kris and Susie to do their assignment. For Chapter 1 you can explain as Ralsei not wanting Kris and Susie to go back too soon, they just had said their goodbyes after all. Regarding Saving in the Light World and the Playable Character's name there are two answers for this; One is the Vessel. Remember that originally we were going to control a Vessel before some entity discards it and 'forces' us into Kris. While in reality Toby Fox had that planned in the game, even in the code that is not something that was planned for. That is to say the code is 'canon', we know this because of the messages left in the code which could be from Dess, messages that are manifested through Spamton at one point. It is also possible that we're going to play as The Vessel in the future so having that checks out in regardings to naming in the Light World. As for Saving it could be that either The Vessel would be able to save anywhere in the Light World OR in the possible event of The Roaring - When the fountains fill the sky - implying the Light World would turn into one giant Dark World. We know this because the Prophecy even shows Darkners standing next to Lightners and turning into stone. Everything will fall into Chaos and the Titans will even be able to materialize from The Dark Fountains. If everywhere turned into one big Dark World it'd make sense for you to be able to save anywhere. And then of course it could just be leftover from debugging lol
"While I disagree with you on Kris being able to SAVE on the Light World, as Kris doesn't seem very Determined to Save character-wise and something on the Undertale Book Legends of Localization 3 seems to imply that the ability to SAVE is triggered by something on the Underground - That is to say Kris wouldn't even be able to SAVE in Deltarune even if it did follow the same rules as Undertale, at least not in the same manner via a Yellow Save Point like Frisk did." Nobody should use Undertale as an explanation for things in Deltarune. Literally zero of save points is using word "determination" in Deltarune. Determination as power is used in context of thing needed to open the Dark Fountain. I'm pretty sure this is intentional.
@@GhostVolume building on this, you shouldn’t use undertale to prove anything about deltarune because Toby has confirmed things like souls don’t work the same way in deltarune
It would be incredibly on-brand for Gaster's name to get redacted into "???" like this. Cause every time in both of these games the player tries to input Gaster into something the games just implode on themselves, effectively redacting his name. The only issue is that this redaction always happens with the shortened version of his name that is only 6 letters long. But, if December is missing in a similar way to Gaster, like many theorize, She might be experiencing something similar, but only with the longer version of her name. And as a result, Noellle is still able to refer to her, but only as _Dess._
@@StarLightShadows in Noelle's room in Queen's mansion, there's a calendar in which every day is the 25th and every month is December, implying she's been looking up "December Holiday" (as the room is made up from the characters' search histories), and considering Dess is missing it makes sense for Noelle to be doing so
It can be about chapter 3 since toby left Easter eggs about some music OST maybe the save sections was left there for toby to use later. So that can also mean chapter 3 will be outside the dark world
Although it's non-canon, the Spamton Sweepstakes had a donation thing that people would choose Spamton's fate. Giving him freedom was the winner, even though Toby himself voted against Spamton's freedom, or so I hear
@@zigazav1 The Sweepstakes wasn't non-canon (at least, it & the Q&A contained canon lore & actual previews for future chapters). Though of course, it's not like Spamton could actually host the event for real either. But it was the live stream at the conclusion of it (with wayneradiotv) that was declared non-canon. Toby & Fangamer did indeed vote for Silence, probably to coax more charity donations out of everyone by creating a more competitive race to save him. 😉
This video was so good. It's really interesting to think about the possibility of playing as a different character other than Kris... and yeah, the topic of their save file is something that's worth discussing. I also didn't know that they could save in the light world... And about playing Undertale without saving? I GENUINELY HAD ZERO IDEA THAT THE DIALOGUE IN ASRIEL'S BATTLE IF YOU DON'T SAVE WAS A THING. I knew about what Photoshop Flowey says, and about what Sans says, but Asriel? I literally had no idea that the dialogue about save files in his fight changes. That's so cool.
If kris's gift is mind, imagine that they're the actual smartest kid in their class but because they're depressed they don't have the ambition to study, and berdly is trying to be their rivel because he finally gets to be number one in class and wants to hold that power over them
I find it strange that in the neutral ending phone call Sans suggests you SAVE. It seems he would have no reason to know the player has the ability to SAVE if the player had never done so before. Not to mention it kind of goes against what we know about his character.
@@123phi123 That makes more sense, Toby has used him as a way to monitor bugs (and call out hackers) upon Undertale's initial release. So him being used for special challenges makes sense.
What we know about his character, is that he knows an awful lot of things most other monsters don't know. Maybe when we left, we had the expression of someone who hasn't saved yet. 😉
Expected this to leap into another “Kris has three souls” video, pleasantly surprised. As usual, Bread teaches me something new about a game I thought couldn’t possibly have anything else to know about
I happen to have just finished a totally saveless run - fun fact, the game creates a proxy save for you when you do this, and while this save file does not show up in the chapter 1 files, when selecting a chapter 1 to continue from, your save appears as normal, with your creator name and everything, from which you can continue. I fully believe Toby is going to implement a saveless route, or this Krister-egg shouldn't exist
Yeah, the completion files. I just had a thought, though. What if those files are Kris’ light world saves? They get made at the end of the chapter, and the player has no control over that. Just a thought.
Mini theory I just thought up from this video, what if at some point in the full game we unlock Chapter 0 as a prequel chapter, and in it we play as December. This way we would get to see exactly what happened to Dess from her own perspective before the actual start of the game.
Idk why but the scene of Ralsei going back for the white ribbon made me burst into a fit of giggles, thank you so much for blessing us with that animation
the entire second video is amazing. I like your commentary even if there's no voice.... and seeing the way toby made you play the game twice is so funny.
I can feel the screams of millions of deltarune theories being shut down all at once And then a can of a million more opening and spewing out into the world
Something you forgot to mention is that some minor interactions with certain objects are changed depending on which save file out of the 3 the player is using, if we take that as canon you could say the save files are different universes with minor changes to them, strangely similar to the FUN values of Undertale.
I was literally just thinking about this, like, a few days ago! Or, well, I was mostly thinking of something else, but it was pretty closely related to this. It's implied that Deltarune's save files are diagetic to some degree, because obviously, Toby makes everything diegetic if he can help it. If you go into the save file selection screen after starting a new game but before finishing Chapter 1, then you get a weird, minimalistic save screen, and the messages you get from interacting with it reads less like your usual "file copied/deleted/etc." and more like someone specific commenting on your actions. That specific someone being G-man, of course, so there's the implication that these save files exist on one of his devices somewhere in-game. And, of course, it's quite clearly implied G-man's related to the bunker, so it makes sense any such hypothetical device would likely be in there. And if Kris did enter the bunker at some point in the past, then that could've been where their save file came from, if they messed with the save file device at some point. It begs the question of what else Kris might know or have messed with, if something like the save file device could exist... although the whole "Kris' save exists after Chapter 1" thing does sorta complicate that. Maybe it's just that we can choose when exactly we can decide to enter, and Kris' save file continues to exist until we overwrite it, regardless of when we do? Although maybe there is some merit to the idea that Kris has their own power to save. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they have some sort of foresight/metaknowledge, because them rushing through Chapter 1, only going on a detour to get the white ribbon, does imply they knew exactly where the ribbon was... The main thing I was thinking of was just the fact that we do have three save files, which does very much give us a sort of safety blanket by allowing us to reload earlier saves or have different playthroughs doing different things. And I was thinking that safety blanket would be exactly the sort of thing Toby would want to rip away from us. If these save files do exist somewhere in-game, then that does imply the possibility of them being messed with by in-game entities, and it's possible they might force saving and loading, overwrite our files with their own, possibly corrupt them into unusability... if there's any connection between those save points and the lights on the Titans, then maybe the Roaring itself would cause our save files to go wonky, or that may happen sooner from Dark Worlds becoming more volatile as the balance between light and dark shifted? And you have to wonder what would happen if you lost all of your save files... This is, ah, definitely more pure speculation than proper theorycrafting. But if our very save files get roped into Deltarune's conflicts and narrative, you heard it from me first!
If this is the case, Im kind of wondering if gaster and kris have interacted before? Assuming theres an actual save machine, it would only make sense if both gaster and whoever interrupted him when you are creating your vessel would have been using said machine to communicate with us, since our name is still preserved even though the vessel was discarded.
No, it doesn't. Chapter 0 existing is simply for easier coding. Gamemaker's arrays always start at 0. The first frame in a sprite is always frame 0. Chapter 0 existing has no lore relevance what-so-ever.
Finally some one talking about Kris opening up the dark fountains as the Knight. Considering at the end of Chapter 1, it is heavily implied that he opens up the fountain that leads to Queen. Confirmed by the end of Chapter 2 that he is the one opening up new dark fountains. My belief is this is why there is a save file for Kris the first time the player goes into a dark world. Because Kris has already been there to open it.
Nice video. There's something that's goes unnoticed that i would love u to cover. In castle town, next to the dojo, the rudinn mentions our name somehow. For some reason I've never seen anyone talk about this
I forgot you could do a donation thingy, I just love your content and you always cover topics that nobody else covers and you do it crazy in-depth (or in this case playingboth pacifist and genocide undertale no-save runs). Here's some kromer
Very interesting stuff. I always seen the Kris save as something significant. He is for sure bringing attention to it. Also the revelation of Kris maybe saving in the light world could mean so much. I cannot wait to see where this game is going with its story.
I think the 5 "gifts" you can choose to give your vessel are soul colors: Definite: * Kindness -> Green Soul * Bravery -> Orange Soul Speculative: * Mind -> Purple Soul The reason for this is that the human with the purple soul in Undertale was associated with books and reading, e.g. the torn notebook, cloudy glasses etc. Also: What if there are more soul colors than the ones shown in Undertale, like a pink soul or a brown soul?
i really do think there are more soul traits then just what was shown in undertale, because i mean, come on. all seven humans that fall just happen to be unique traits with there only being seven traits? assuming i can do probability calculations correctly and that each trait has the same chance of being "chosen", that's around a 0.6% chance
Well I think the simplest solution to this little mystery is if Kris finds a way to get rid of us and we need to play using our vessel we made in ch1. You wouldn't need a script to shorten a name if you knew what would fill it. You would just hard code it to be that. You would only need a script to check if it was something you couldn't control, like a player's name.
hey half bread. Since your instant noodles thing is always popping up, that reminds me: What do you know about Serious Mode (the thing that makes the noodles behave differently/changes item names to be less silly in undertale) and is there anything like that in Deltarune (yet)?
Yeah, it’s called serious mode. It’s actually kinda interesting. When activated, it removes various jokes from battles. It activates in both the genocide boss fights, and in the three boss monster fights (Toriel, Asgore, and Asriel). One thing is does is change item names. There’s a lot of item name changes, but a few notable ones are: ButtsPie -> Pie SpidrDont -> SpdrDonut InstaNood -> I.Noodles Annoy Dog -> Dog (Not possible without save manipulation, but I happened to see it on the wiki while getting the exact changes and thought it was too funny not to share.) As SaiaiChan mentioned, it also changes the way the noodles are eaten. Instead of the super long wait for the noodle to cook, you just eat them dry. They also heal you for 90 HP instead of 4.
There's a few related-ish cases in Deltarune, that I know of. One is the Lancer Cookie. In the overworld, it only heals you for 4 HP in Ch 1 (despite saying it'll do 5), & a measly 1 HP in Ch 2... but in battle (as Lancer puts it, it "will heal you in times of need"), it'll heal you for 50 HP! And the S. Poison in Ch 2 is also nuanced; in the overworld, it directly drains 20 HP from whoever uses it. (Except for Noelle; she senses that it's unsafe, so she just pretends to drink it & nothing happens.) But in battle, it instantly heals 40 HP, but then drains 60 total over time (not going below 1 HP though). However, if someone's already knocked out, using it on them will heal them the 40 HP, & as long as they're still downed directly after that (just closer to naturally regenerating back up) it won't injure them any further. I think the "serious mode" was a bit of a prototype for those other nuanced healing items as well, such as Kris healing more from Choco Diamonds, Susie from Hearts Donuts, & the whole named Tea deal.
i'm so glad i found this channel recently. it has become a quick favorite of mine. i love the humor and timing, it's super charming, and i can feel the love put into these videos. thank you!!
To be honest, it could be either December or Papyrus, as we know both are very likely to become relevant at one point. -Papyrus has the “Interesting coincidence” Easter egg when you input his name -On the description, it talks about Papyrus not being here yet -Sans has asked us to visit Papyrus, but so far we don’t know when we’ll see him -There’s clearly something going on with Dess, being mentioned in chapter 2 as well as very likely to be the person stuck in the code, as many people think. -Dess does seem like she could be Determined, as she was always standing up for Noelle and even hit Kris with a whiffle bat once. Though those are also Justice traits, so who knows? -Just finding Dess somewhere will mess around with the plot a bit, because finding someone accidentally somewhere is a bit plot-armorish. Transitioning to her POV might be a better segway, seeing as how we the Soul would actually know where she is Thanks to HBC for sponsoring our betting system! /j
imagine how awesome a sudden swap to dess's POV would be. ralsei tries pulling a "do you wonder how susie is doing now?" on us and wait a second that ain't susie
Actually, aren't Sans words something like "Will you play with my brother?" Am I misremembering that? That COULD mean "Play" as in the sense of a video game
I never knew that Kris had a save file in chapter 2 as well. That must mean that they saved in between chapters, along with the other things they did like eating the pie, plugging in the TV, and possibly creating the cyber world dark fountain. (Yes that is a possibility, I'm not getting into it.) After all, at times, you see it flickering. The light only you can see. By second nature, you reach out, and... That script to change "Since chapter [x]" to "???" is very, very interesting... why does that exist?? That's so weird! I had an idea where in a future chapter, Kris would rip you out and lock you out of whatever building they were going into, and you would have to go find someone or something else to be your vessel. Seems like it just got a lot more plausible! I had no idea about those dialogue changes in the Flowey and Asriel fights - that's so neat! You really do never stop learning new things about this game. I have a feeling that will be even more true of Deltarune... Also! If you start your save file from Chapter 2, Mettaton will act as if you've talked to him before, indicating one of the following. A. Kris talked to Mettaton in chapter 1 B. Kris has talked to Mettaton before the events of the game C. Toby forgot to add dialogue for if you hadn't talked to him previously This might have been patched out, but it was the case when I first played chapter 2 (as soon as it came out).
If you cheat to save immediately after starting a run, is there already time on it? Maybe, at some point, we'll need to do something in the light world while Kris is in the dark world so we'll have to take over someone in the light world. Maybe, it'll all be a ploy by Kris & Ralsei to get our attention on something Kris screwed up so they can do stuff while we're not watching.
What if you have the possibility to just jump over all of the chapters just like ch.1 and then you can see what Kris did by leaving him alone? Would that make some kind of difference?
still kris wouldnt like us, our existance means that we are removing kris's freedom, and even if we make the choices that he would, we still are making them, not kris
@@Kirbzzy Just because you believe it doesn't matter to the story, doesn't mean it doesn't matter at all. Toby Fox explicitly chose to use those pronouns for Kris for a reason. Just as it would be incorrect (based on the info we have right now) to use "he" to describe Toriel or Noelle, and it would be weird to use "she" to describe Asgore or Rudy, it is at the VERY least incorrect to describe Kris as anything other than "they". Additionally, Toby Fox created games with multiple characters who have trans allegories/arcs, as well as multiple explicitly LGBTQA+ characters. As the creator of the games and as someone who is Very Aware of the reception of the games, Toby Fox knows that those details about their characters deeply matter to many of the LGBTQA+ fans who rarely get to see themselves represented in popular games. Everyone understands if you forget the pronouns of a character sometimes, of course! We all make mistakes! But why would you go out of your way to misgender a character? In general, that's weird. At worst, it comes across as rude and dismissive of the impact that that can have on other transgender/nonbinary fans of the game, to whom that detail may be especially meaningful. TLDR: It matters to many people, and it is incorrect to call Kris anything else. You can easily change ONE pronoun, and it's honestly weird to mess up a character's info on purpose. If you hate that Kris uses they/them pronouns so much, and it makes you mad when people correct each other without any maliciousness, why bother interacting with this game or fandom? Either leave people alone or you can go be mad about it somewhere else lol. Thanks!
Papyrus has yet to appear in Deltarune afterall. There IS a chance he'll look differently in Deltarune though, as the look of Papyrus, is not all of himself, it's an armor costume Papyrus wore at a costume contest, according to Sans in Undertale. Only part of his sprite is actually him without the costume covering him
There is one thing I found in relation to this. If you play through and finish an empty Chapter 1 save file without overwriting Kris, you cannot play that "save" in Chapter 1 ever again. However, that "save" does, in fact, carry over into Chapter 2 "Kris" file where it is playable and contains your picked up items. Theoretically, you could be able to carry a consistent "Kris" file through all 7 chapters. without
While Toby totally could have some sort of "chapter zero" plans, he's probably just filling it in that array because arrays HAVE to start at index 0, but if you leave a string array element empty, it can cause problems. Also, it's pretty common to ignore the 0 index element of an array so that the first "true" element is index 1. For example i am working on a game right now with 10 cutscenes, each named "cc1, cc2 etc... cc10". I made a function to play them, and i didn't want to have to remember to call "PlayCutscene(0)" to play the first, "PlayCutscene(3)" to play the fourth, etc. So i put a dummy video in the first slot, the zero index. So there's two very good reasons for chapter 0 existing, and having dummy data filled in. Let's also say toby wants to loop through the array of chapters (to do something for every chapter)... If any of those indexes in the array are left empty, then it can cause an error. He could specifically check if things are null, but it's annoying to do that all the time if you don't actually need to. You have to do it enough as it stands normally when making games. So there's a crapload of reasons for him to have a "chapter 0" that means absolutely nothing. Toby IS a prankster and undertale IS super meta, but i think it's a lot more likely that the man just wants 1 to mean 1 when he's programming instead of 0 being 1 :p
Hm... the strange thing about the save file name is that if you were "playing" as someone, you'd think it would still display the player name, right? So I'd think it might be less a case of a second player character than a save file hijacking like flowey did. I do think the idea of a second playable character is really neat though.
You're playing as someone but aren't someone so that's why, which goes against what I think in undertale (imo chara and the player are not the same, still we can see chara in genocide so we aren't chara)
December / Dess seems likely Possibly some kinda memory or something seems more likely then playing as Papyrus, and I think everyone can agree not Mettaton. December seems most likely as Papyrus goes unseen and is more likely a secret, side quest thing, or something that will come up later.
the reason for the whole "7 characters or more" thing with names is because, in undertale, your name could only be 6 characters long, and if you changed it manually with a save file edit to be longer than that, you'd get a little easter egg in the menu where the "???" is, but instead of that, you'd get "Easy to change, huh?" deltarune seems like it's HEAVILY built off of undertale, so it's more likely that code that is unused there is less likely to be intended for the player to speculate about, and more for just saving toby time in dev doesn't mean it COULDN'T mean anything, just means it probably won't
I think there's something interesting about your point at 0646: You say that there's a few options on who we will play in the Light World due to 7 letter name being in the code. But I think you forgot one other option: Krismas. His old nickname. I have no idea what it would mean or imply, but it fits the bill and it still associates with Kris.
I think the three save files might allude to the 3 major routes this game will take. Sure, Toby has said there is only 1 ending, but with what we've seen so far, the attitudes of those around us can be wildly effected. I think the routes will be Social (being nice and seeing everything), Anti/Semi-Social (Not seeing everything/ not recruiting everyone, and shades in between), and Weird. I think the end results will be the same, but just like how things differ between pacifying the King and defeating him, the mood towards your actions will differ WILDLY
The other playable character has got to be the vessel, right? Since you can name it anything you want, there would have to be a code for IF it's more than seven characters.
I thought its supposed to mean that kris was a person before we come into there body. While frisk is more of a vessel than a human. Edit think to thought
In relation to the whole name thing: Maybe it’s the vessel. I’ve been thinking for a while that there may be a time that we take control over the vessel, perhaps if Kris swaps souls with them at some point. I’m not sure what the question mark thing would be about though, unless the vessel is referred to as something like “The Vessel” or “The Human” in the menu
The Kris save file overwrite may (or may not) be for a plot point, indeed. Or it may just be a subtle hint to players that a saveless route/easter egg will exist when the game is done.
I always thought that the importance of saving over Kris' save file is that you as the player are literally taking away Kris' abilities to do anything of his own. By saving over his file you are kinda rewriting his brain in a sense. And the ending of CH.1 kinda furthers this along. Kris managed to get back controll over the body so he managed to make a save.
After watching to the end of the video, I feel like the Kris' save file occuring between chapters might be an auto-save system for Deltarune. Like, you know, since it's saved while you're in the light world. I still think it will have some kind of in-game explanation for it tho. I'm not sure if this is related, but the fact that the save file uses the player's name in dark world kinda reminds me of how in undertale, the save file uses Chara's name instead of Frisk's name. (I mean obviously, the game tries really hard to hide Frisk's real name, but it might have some connection or something somthing something)
Zzzzzz gonna be asleep when this goes live. Try not to ERASE my progress while I'm in the dark.
“I hope nobody looks at my plans while I’m sleeping”
HalfBreadChaos LV 66 999:99
Why does Kris have a Save File in Deltarune?
♥Save Return
There will be CHAOS
Have a nice zzz Bread Broom Boi
Will you even voice reveal?
It'd be real creepy if a future chapter gave us one of those "Have you already seen this before?" kind of dialogue moments even on the first run.
wdym
Wdym?
wait that would actually be so smart
That would be amazing!
wdym =
Someone has dejavu when seeing kris, asks them "Hey hasnt this happened before?" even though its the player's first run. But for her, well, he allready did the thing some number of times.
“Kris preservation society” is a statement I did not know I needed in my life.
PRESERVE THEM!!!
Who are the members?
@@Gnidel me, I just joined (my name isn't actually Kris, don't tell anyone tho)
@@Gnidel I think merg did a no save run for chapter 1
i mean my name is christopher so can i join the kris preservation society?
I think there are 2 things to note here:
1) Normally if you do a run of Undertale, you can't change the name, but you chose a new one after doing a no-save run. Probably an oversight though.
2) The auto-save was probably done to prevent players from breaking the plot through not saving after Asriel and battling him the second time without a True Reset. But also there'd need to be a separate Flowey warning made for people who completed the game without any saves.
Not true actually! You can still totally break plot progression by closing the game after the Asriel fight and doing a normal, non-true reset on the now full menu. All you gotta do is remember to not get the credits first.
I mean, you were also SAVING the entire fight nonstop
I think omega flowey already has a thing if you get to him without saving....
@@stormy_does_stuff yeah he says something like “I would have control over your SAVE file… but you were too STUPID to make one!” (Of course he makes fun of you for it)
@@stormy_does_stuff That's at 10:30. You can also see the Asriel Dreemur one at 14:44.
Asriel made you a Save file after you Saved him. That’s so sweet of him.
Thank you.
This comment has 666 likes, how stramge (sidenote. If it doesn’t have 666 likes now is because you came at a different time)
Thecomment has 699 likes now(nice)@@CatLover2339T
I'm glad to see someone start taking Kris' save file into the larger plot.
I will be shocked if we don't switch lead characters at some point, the plot of the game is building to it very clearly.
Not really but ok
December gaming!
I wonder when we might take over another character, and if the weird routes will affect that. Maybe Berdly....
i didn't even think about the concept of switching lead characters really, other than the concept of controlling the vessel in a boss fight against kris. full-on swapping to another character would be AWESOME
Probably switching to vessel you created
Someone online noticed that the clocks on the different buildings are discoordinated and show different times. This reinforces the theory that Kris can save in the Light World. Remember what Sans in Undertale said about time jumping and shifting?
Ooooo
U mean him mentioning smth about time and space distortions all over the palace in genocide route ?
he talked about timelines, not time within one timeline. Clocks showing different time is not related to that, plus how could anybody not notice areas basically time travelling? Not how saving is (known) to work.
Although this reminds me of sunless skies, where people mine hours and then do time shenanigans, so then other people have to go around the land and synchronise clocks, when time literally passes differently in different areas.
@@plushloler Yeah, the mechanics of "time travel" or rather saving and loading work less like going back in time that influences some future but rather it's played with in a more physical sense. Each run of undertale is a different series of events in the same starting state of a universe. Not the same universe, as Gaster's story eludes to each player's playthrough being its own contained world. The same would be assumed for Deltarune as Gaster is an influence here as well. Just a new starting state. When you save and load you really just manipulate the world into being in the state that it was, what you had done is erased. Cast into non-existence.
As for what the clocks mean, couldn't say. Time as a theme is something I have no doubt will play a role over the course of the full game. I don't think to the extent of different areas having been rolled back in time, but going back and forth through the week (almost like a groundhog's day) to perfect your relationship with the town's people.
If time jumps forward, wouldn’t that be for the whole world? Not one part.
In my experience, clocks in schools not working or being at the wrong times/not synchronized is perfectly normal.
Given that Dess already has save-file-adjacent shenanigans what with being seemingly stuck in the code and all, later loading/saving/playing as her would make sense.
Broo yeah I'm hungry for some dess lore she seems almost as interesting as gaster to me ngl
@@fefek1 its all fun and games until dess is revealed to be gaster
Imagine:Dess is gaster, and the theory gaster is sans dad is true. dess is a trans man and sans mother/father. @@thecatacombhimself
That would be an absolute dess-aster haha
I can't wait to see what eldritch shenanigans we can get up to in future chapters! Saving and manipulating the Light World the same way we do the Dark Worlds would be an insane plot point, and some final showdown against Kris to take control over the savefiles of the game would be wild.
So.. I guess when the full game is out someone will have to complete the game without saving over or deleting Kris' save just to see if anything happens
Can't they just skip to the last chapter?
@@SleepyKatAlt maybe, but I doubt Toby would make it that simple
@@PANGPOWER true
@@SleepyKatAlt Not if you also need an optional item from chapter one (aside from the white ribbon, of course).
@@nixel1324 the iron shakels in the prison
This really reminds me of Ben Drowned and how the protagonist of the creepypasta tries to override Ben's save file, it's curious how the Weird Route is pretty "creepypasta-like" getting a secret item by doing something weird, a story were characters go crazy, kill monsters in a pretty happy cute world, the world changing forever, etc.
I gotta say, saving over Kris's save feels SUPER invasive, like we're really treading all over their own life. Especially since you probably won't even notice it the first play through so it's like you wiped out a chunk of their life without even noticing, which is pretty guilt-inducing.
I mean, they also saved over our SAVE FILE in between chapters one and two, so that makes us even
@@deaththegrimreaper4120yeah but it was theirs first
Considering the text for your first interaction with the first Save Point, I think Kris still saves at Save Points. But only they can see the Light World Save Points, while Kris and the Player together see the Dark World Save Points
Sounds plausible, yeah
Undertale save points are yellow (probably light world save points) and Deltarune ones are white
So maybe
Plus it does say that you're filled with POWER not determination
@@BaaarisaKirisame It mentions being filled with a "certain power" right before Queen. And she immediately name drops Determination.
@@BaaarisaKirisame The game takes very precise effort to NOT name drop Determination in their save points. Following this video's theory, I believe that this is done on purpose by Kris, in order to hide this fact from us.
So, while they may be able to save in both the Light and Dark Worlds, they never inform the player how. From Kris's perspective, this is a secret they intend to keep.
I agree that the power mentioned in the save points IS probably determination. However as far as the text you mentioned is concerned... Kris is a teenager in the middle of puberty. The fact he's filled with a "certain power" upon seeing giant hot mama legs isn't a hinting towards determination but to something else i'm afraid...
"krispreservationsociety" LMAO love when toby has some fun writing script
I love the little extra passive aggressive save at the end! That was hilarious!
The recent localization book has an interesting section about how determination and SAVE works. It clarifies in Undertale that its the player's physical determination that allows you to save with Frisk just being along for the ride. This does not appear to be the case with Kris though because they had a save in the dark world and saved between chapters. I've been thinking about that ever since chapter 2 released.
Ohh that's really interesting!
It’s funny how Toby wrote dialogue for something that would almost never happen
It's about time someone questions this.
I mean hell, the dialogue in Chapter 1 when you get to the 'first' save point refers them to the 'light only you can see', _heavily_ implying Kris knows what they are, and has used them before. Why this hasn't been theory fuel until now I have zero clue.
Ok but what if the "you" is actually talking about the player and not Kris themselves.
@@RaphielShiraha64 inb4 toby changes that one string to specifically reference kris in ch345 because of the you=player theory being true.
I wonder if we get to play as the vessel at some point, maybe during the roaring if it happens.
i imagine it would happen if kris removes their soul in the dark world, which could _technically_ happen during the roaring (the two worlds would probably collide during the roaring so you aren't really in either which one)
pls no i made my vessel bald 😭
@@clawcakes2 would be sick if the soul turns into the vessel or smth and you fight with kris, since youve made the desicions to get kris here in the first place so kris would probably get your vessel for extra help during the roaring
It would be pretty cool if Dess was playable for Chapter 0, like a prologue of sorts.
All those default choice things really help with a thought I'd had.
I'm still holding on to the hope that the vessel makes an appearance, and having the choices saved even if you skipped over making them is reassuring.
I'd figured being able to skip them meant they really were discarded.
Shouldn't have assumed I know what Toby will and won't do in the background.
You know, I always took the Kris save in chapter 2 meant they went to the school to save in the closet during the night, as the save location will always be the castle town before you rewrite it. As the until you rewrite the save file, it will show the previous location saved at. So maybe the closet just unlocked itself (I mean it was unlocked before and then just locked, and it is magical and stuff) or maybe Kris has the keys to the closet being the child of the head teacher.
I think the closet is just not usually locked. Alphys sent Kris and Susie to get the chalk from it alone without giving them a key
@@123phi123 Hmm.. It looked like someone deliberately closed the doors on Susie and Kris, right? Though it could be Dark World shenanigans. If that is something that happened though, were they someone who could actually lock it? People have theorized on how the only two people who'd possibly have any motive to lock the two of them together are the Knight, having just finished their business in the Card Kingdom Dark World, and... Alphys, considering the usage of her smug portrait when you talk to her in chapter 2, not interacting her in the alleyway the day before, as if everything went according to plan. Well I guess Alphys and the Knight could also be the same person, but.
@@petruciosxd1374Alphys Knight would be the plot twist of the century
My biggest curiosity with all of this is Chapter 0. What does that imply? I've been hoping there was going to be a chapter entirely devoted to the Light world (possibly exploring things like the bunker, what happened with Asgore's incident, the lake, Susie's home life, a moving pizza box with ICE-E's face on it being buried in a graveyard, etc.) and while I hoped it was in the next 3 chapters, I have a feeling that maybe we'll be exploring it even more in this "Chapter 0". If 3-5 are being released soon, maybe 6, 7, and 0 will also get released together. That's just a hunch though. I definitely think there's going to be a major divergence with save files though. That seems increasingly likely considering just how much effort Toby put in to force the player to save over Kris's file.
It's been theorized that Chapter 3 will be entirely Dark World, and Chapter 4 will be entirely Light World
one thing worth keeping in mind: gamemaker is 0-indexed, meaning the first element of an array isn't 1, but 0. you can see this when bread mentions that save8 is the _ninth_ savefile, as that's something similar. so, it's not unlikely that toby just wanted to be able to use the player's current chapter without having to +1 it when writing the number in text or -1 it when looking up the chapter name, so he just put in a filler string for the first element of the array to avoid any issues that would come from referencing it
hell, it wouldn't surprise me if the 0th chapter is actually _used,_ all things considered, because " - - " works perfectly fine as a player-visible "blank" string. like, if the player is ever shown the name of their current chapter, but they haven't actually _started_ a chapter, then they wouldn't think twice if a spot that usually said "[The Beginning]" or "[A Cyber's World]" just showed "[ - - ]" instead
@@hi-i-am-atan Ykw that is true. It is odd how he's assigned so many values to specifically the 0th chapter, but from a game designer's perspective that makes sense. I wouldn't put it past him to use even something like that too considering how far he's already gone in the code for Deltarune's narrative thus far. But if it was just a placeholder, I could see how we're looking at details that are just meant to be overlooked.
If there is a chapter zero, I would love it if it only appeared at the end of the game, and it was a sort of flashback that happened before the first chapter, and would possibly show the personalities of Asriel and Dess if they haven't already been met by the end of chapter 7.
Aren't there like, specific sprites for chapters 8 through 10? Or something like that?
Another nugget of info that is that Kris at the start of chapter 1 is at level 1 - As they have not shut down any Dark Fountains
For chapter 2 they're Level 2 - as they've shut down one Dark Fountain
You only level up after you close a Dark Fountain in a Dark World and that Level only carries foward between Dark Worlds. It is possible that through Kris, Noelle's level goes to two. As in Kris/The player in being the Party Leader pushes everyone's level to their own. That does happen in some RPG games where party members, especifically new party members, scale to the level of the main character.
While I disagree with you on Kris being able to SAVE on the Light World, as Kris doesn't seem very Determined to Save character-wise and something on the Undertale Book Legends of Localization 3 seems to imply that the ability to SAVE is triggered by something on the Underground - That is to say Kris wouldn't even be able to SAVE in Deltarune even if it did follow the same rules as Undertale, at least not in the same manner via a Yellow Save Point like Frisk did.
Regarding the Vessel Creation at the very start it couldn't be Kris's choices as it's Gaster directly contacting The Player directly, even going as far as taking over the official Twitter Account. It is possible this is Gaster's choices for a Vessel given The Player's behavior in Undertale and a complete lack of response from them, just Gaster guessing what The Player would like. At the start Gaster even asks if we, Gaster and The Player, are connected.
The Player was brought in Deltarune to create a New Future with Gaster, whatever that means.
So For Kris's Save Data on Chapter 1 that leaves two possible answers; Either Kris has been in a Dark World before, Saved and somehow got out without shutting down a Dark Fountain - By this you could say that Kris and Dess at some point fell down into the Bunker and there's a Dark World there, Dess got lost but Kris managed to get away, maybe they even feel a bit guilty about it. It would be in-character, tie Kris and Noelle together in the story, explain Kris's possibly weird behavior, maybe it'd explain Kris already tearing their SOUL out in the past as it is implied by the Birdcage - If the SOUL is the source of all emotions by tearing it out you don't feel guilty, you don't feel like you miss your brother, you don't feel weird about being a Human in a town of Monsters, you don't feel depressed or anything which is sort of the vibe Kris gives at the start of the story - someone who has been depressed for some unknown time with no motivation or anything else in their lives.
The other answer is that it could be due to a Timeloop reset - It's a long complicated theory but it *could* explain some of Kris's behavior acting as if they know what's going to happen when through the end of Chapter 1 and Chapter 2. But one thing that would be inconsistent would be how a Reset save file looks like, although in Undertale we never get our Save File reset by an outside force - only The Player can reset their Save File. Flowey saves over ours it doesn't get reset.
For Chapter 2's Kris Save data it can explained by Kris going outside, maybe visiting Ralsei in the dead of the night for whatever reason. This would explain Kris more tired than usual at the school morning, sleeping through the entire period instead of just the first class. It is even possible Kris was the one who cut the the town's internet connection that night.
As for Castle Town's Doors being closed I'm not really sure what to make of that since they're not really regular doors, not even in how they look, but to me it seems like Ralsei has the Power to close the Doors whatever he wants. We see this in Chapter 2 after leaving to do Homework the door is locked which is a way for Ralsei to "Force" Kris and Susie to do their assignment. For Chapter 1 you can explain as Ralsei not wanting Kris and Susie to go back too soon, they just had said their goodbyes after all.
Regarding Saving in the Light World and the Playable Character's name there are two answers for this;
One is the Vessel. Remember that originally we were going to control a Vessel before some entity discards it and 'forces' us into Kris. While in reality Toby Fox had that planned in the game, even in the code that is not something that was planned for. That is to say the code is 'canon', we know this because of the messages left in the code which could be from Dess, messages that are manifested through Spamton at one point.
It is also possible that we're going to play as The Vessel in the future so having that checks out in regardings to naming in the Light World.
As for Saving it could be that either The Vessel would be able to save anywhere in the Light World OR in the possible event of The Roaring - When the fountains fill the sky - implying the Light World would turn into one giant Dark World. We know this because the Prophecy even shows Darkners standing next to Lightners and turning into stone. Everything will fall into Chaos and the Titans will even be able to materialize from The Dark Fountains.
If everywhere turned into one big Dark World it'd make sense for you to be able to save anywhere.
And then of course it could just be leftover from debugging lol
"While I disagree with you on Kris being able to SAVE on the Light World, as Kris doesn't seem very Determined to Save character-wise and something on the Undertale Book Legends of Localization 3 seems to imply that the ability to SAVE is triggered by something on the Underground - That is to say Kris wouldn't even be able to SAVE in Deltarune even if it did follow the same rules as Undertale, at least not in the same manner via a Yellow Save Point like Frisk did."
Nobody should use Undertale as an explanation for things in Deltarune.
Literally zero of save points is using word "determination" in Deltarune. Determination as power is used in context of thing needed to open the Dark Fountain. I'm pretty sure this is intentional.
@@GhostVolume building on this, you shouldn’t use undertale to prove anything about deltarune because Toby has confirmed things like souls don’t work the same way in deltarune
@@Kirbzzy yea
It would be incredibly on-brand for Gaster's name to get redacted into "???" like this. Cause every time in both of these games the player tries to input Gaster into something the games just implode on themselves, effectively redacting his name. The only issue is that this redaction always happens with the shortened version of his name that is only 6 letters long.
But, if December is missing in a similar way to Gaster, like many theorize, She might be experiencing something similar, but only with the longer version of her name. And as a result, Noellle is still able to refer to her, but only as _Dess._
ooh that's an interesting theory
Didn't we see Noelle search her full name in her history room? (In the mansion)
@@resentfulsidecharacter3713 I don't believe so?
@@StarLightShadows in Noelle's room in Queen's mansion, there's a calendar in which every day is the 25th and every month is December, implying she's been looking up "December Holiday" (as the room is made up from the characters' search histories), and considering Dess is missing it makes sense for Noelle to be doing so
It can be about chapter 3 since toby left Easter eggs about some music OST maybe the save sections was left there for toby to use later. So that can also mean chapter 3 will be outside the dark world
Maybe it works like in Minecraft and when Kris goes to sleep , it sets their spawnpoint and save ?
THIS MADE ME WHEEZE
REAL
Kris was killed by [Intentional Game Design]
@@litterbox019 So is the dark world The End, or do we have to make a portal? :P
@@lurkerabove2402 respawn anchors are charged with glowstones, which are yellow
save points in undertale and deltarune are yellow
holy shit
Spamton has 7 letters and he wants Kris' Soul, maybe... maybe he'll find Freedom after all
Although it's non-canon, the Spamton Sweepstakes had a donation thing that people would choose Spamton's fate. Giving him freedom was the winner, even though Toby himself voted against Spamton's freedom, or so I hear
@@zigazav1 The Sweepstakes wasn't non-canon (at least, it & the Q&A contained canon lore & actual previews for future chapters). Though of course, it's not like Spamton could actually host the event for real either.
But it was the live stream at the conclusion of it (with wayneradiotv) that was declared non-canon.
Toby & Fangamer did indeed vote for Silence, probably to coax more charity donations out of everyone by creating a more competitive race to save him. 😉
other puppet real?????
@@ZaCloud-Animations___she-her The ideo of Toby voting against Spamton is so funny to me lmao. Poor guy lol. Glad the fandom adores him so much
This video was so good.
It's really interesting to think about the possibility of playing as a different character other than Kris... and yeah, the topic of their save file is something that's worth discussing. I also didn't know that they could save in the light world...
And about playing Undertale without saving? I GENUINELY HAD ZERO IDEA THAT THE DIALOGUE IN ASRIEL'S BATTLE IF YOU DON'T SAVE WAS A THING. I knew about what Photoshop Flowey says, and about what Sans says, but Asriel? I literally had no idea that the dialogue about save files in his fight changes. That's so cool.
If kris's gift is mind, imagine that they're the actual smartest kid in their class but because they're depressed they don't have the ambition to study, and berdly is trying to be their rivel because he finally gets to be number one in class and wants to hold that power over them
Probably people can feel identified with kris lmao
Doesn’t Berdly frequently refer to Kris as number 3 in class during their fights?
I find it strange that in the neutral ending phone call Sans suggests you SAVE. It seems he would have no reason to know the player has the ability to SAVE if the player had never done so before. Not to mention it kind of goes against what we know about his character.
He acknowledges several different challenge runs, such as leaving the bandage on the whole game
@@123phi123 That makes more sense, Toby has used him as a way to monitor bugs (and call out hackers) upon Undertale's initial release. So him being used for special challenges makes sense.
What we know about his character, is that he knows an awful lot of things most other monsters don't know.
Maybe when we left, we had the expression of someone who hasn't saved yet. 😉
@ZaCloud-Animations___she-her the expression of someone who could lose it all at a moment's notice maybe?
Expected this to leap into another “Kris has three souls” video, pleasantly surprised. As usual, Bread teaches me something new about a game I thought couldn’t possibly have anything else to know about
I happen to have just finished a totally saveless run - fun fact, the game creates a proxy save for you when you do this, and while this save file does not show up in the chapter 1 files, when selecting a chapter 1 to continue from, your save appears as normal, with your creator name and everything, from which you can continue. I fully believe Toby is going to implement a saveless route, or this Krister-egg shouldn't exist
This is so interesting to me.. Love reading all the theories and thoughts people have about it!
Yeah, the completion files. I just had a thought, though. What if those files are Kris’ light world saves? They get made at the end of the chapter, and the player has no control over that. Just a thought.
well no it would suck to just not be able to continue the game at a certain point
Mini theory I just thought up from this video, what if at some point in the full game we unlock Chapter 0 as a prequel chapter, and in it we play as December. This way we would get to see exactly what happened to Dess from her own perspective before the actual start of the game.
Idk why but the scene of Ralsei going back for the white ribbon made me burst into a fit of giggles, thank you so much for blessing us with that animation
Huge props to the loaf that uploaded a theory with obscure evidence and then did a whole save free paci and neutral run just cuz
the entire second video is amazing. I like your commentary even if there's no voice.... and seeing the way toby made you play the game twice is so funny.
I can feel the screams of millions of deltarune theories being shut down all at once
And then a can of a million more opening and spewing out into the world
Something you forgot to mention is that some minor interactions with certain objects are changed depending on which save file out of the 3 the player is using, if we take that as canon you could say the save files are different universes with minor changes to them, strangely similar to the FUN values of Undertale.
I was literally just thinking about this, like, a few days ago! Or, well, I was mostly thinking of something else, but it was pretty closely related to this.
It's implied that Deltarune's save files are diagetic to some degree, because obviously, Toby makes everything diegetic if he can help it. If you go into the save file selection screen after starting a new game but before finishing Chapter 1, then you get a weird, minimalistic save screen, and the messages you get from interacting with it reads less like your usual "file copied/deleted/etc." and more like someone specific commenting on your actions. That specific someone being G-man, of course, so there's the implication that these save files exist on one of his devices somewhere in-game. And, of course, it's quite clearly implied G-man's related to the bunker, so it makes sense any such hypothetical device would likely be in there.
And if Kris did enter the bunker at some point in the past, then that could've been where their save file came from, if they messed with the save file device at some point. It begs the question of what else Kris might know or have messed with, if something like the save file device could exist... although the whole "Kris' save exists after Chapter 1" thing does sorta complicate that. Maybe it's just that we can choose when exactly we can decide to enter, and Kris' save file continues to exist until we overwrite it, regardless of when we do? Although maybe there is some merit to the idea that Kris has their own power to save. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they have some sort of foresight/metaknowledge, because them rushing through Chapter 1, only going on a detour to get the white ribbon, does imply they knew exactly where the ribbon was...
The main thing I was thinking of was just the fact that we do have three save files, which does very much give us a sort of safety blanket by allowing us to reload earlier saves or have different playthroughs doing different things. And I was thinking that safety blanket would be exactly the sort of thing Toby would want to rip away from us. If these save files do exist somewhere in-game, then that does imply the possibility of them being messed with by in-game entities, and it's possible they might force saving and loading, overwrite our files with their own, possibly corrupt them into unusability... if there's any connection between those save points and the lights on the Titans, then maybe the Roaring itself would cause our save files to go wonky, or that may happen sooner from Dark Worlds becoming more volatile as the balance between light and dark shifted? And you have to wonder what would happen if you lost all of your save files...
This is, ah, definitely more pure speculation than proper theorycrafting. But if our very save files get roped into Deltarune's conflicts and narrative, you heard it from me first!
If this is the case, Im kind of wondering if gaster and kris have interacted before? Assuming theres an actual save machine, it would only make sense if both gaster and whoever interrupted him when you are creating your vessel would have been using said machine to communicate with us, since our name is still preserved even though the vessel was discarded.
i'm sorry
i know by "g-man" you mean gaster but i cannot help but think of g-man from half life interacting with the deltarune world
no joke, a lot of the videos on this channel are gonna be really fun to go back on after chapter 3-5 come out
The mere existence of "Chapter 0" in the files reinforces the theory that we might get sent back in time.
And the whole story becomes a time loop
And by "we" it could either mean "we players" or "we and Kris". Interesting.
@@Gnidel Ooh really good point yeah!
No, it doesn't. Chapter 0 existing is simply for easier coding. Gamemaker's arrays always start at 0. The first frame in a sprite is always frame 0. Chapter 0 existing has no lore relevance what-so-ever.
I wonder if this means Kris has been opening all the dark worlds, instead of just the one at the end of Chapter 2.
Finally some one talking about Kris opening up the dark fountains as the Knight. Considering at the end of Chapter 1, it is heavily implied that he opens up the fountain that leads to Queen. Confirmed by the end of Chapter 2 that he is the one opening up new dark fountains.
My belief is this is why there is a save file for Kris the first time the player goes into a dark world. Because Kris has already been there to open it.
6:31
I noticed that only "Papyrus" fits into the 7-letter name thing. So if its any of them, its probably him.
spamton
Nice video. There's something that's goes unnoticed that i would love u to cover. In castle town, next to the dojo, the rudinn mentions our name somehow. For some reason I've never seen anyone talk about this
Love your videos, they are so well made and interesting! Keep it up!
I forgot you could do a donation thingy, I just love your content and you always cover topics that nobody else covers and you do it crazy in-depth (or in this case playingboth pacifist and genocide undertale no-save runs). Here's some kromer
I can’t wait to play as my favourite 7 lettered character Spamton in the light world
Very interesting stuff. I always seen the Kris save as something significant. He is for sure bringing attention to it. Also the revelation of Kris maybe saving in the light world could mean so much. I cannot wait to see where this game is going with its story.
Ok but how does the tts have so much emotion 😭
Pitch and speed changes
@@rompevuevitos222 ohhhh-
I actually did not notice
Spamton also fits perfectly with the seven. And he does relate himself to Kris a lot.
I think the 5 "gifts" you can choose to give your vessel are soul colors:
Definite:
* Kindness -> Green Soul
* Bravery -> Orange Soul
Speculative:
* Mind -> Purple Soul
The reason for this is that the human with the purple soul in Undertale was associated with books and reading, e.g. the torn notebook, cloudy glasses etc.
Also: What if there are more soul colors than the ones shown in Undertale, like a pink soul or a brown soul?
i really do think there are more soul traits then just what was shown in undertale, because i mean, come on. all seven humans that fall just happen to be unique traits with there only being seven traits? assuming i can do probability calculations correctly and that each trait has the same chance of being "chosen", that's around a 0.6% chance
B R O W N S O U L
And plus purple is the spiderweb effect
OOO i hope we get to play as december in the future
Same
Playing as Papyrus would be really cool too
Playing as Dess would be GREAT!
And would work great functionally because if she has the same kind of magic Noelle does, she'd be able to spare, pacify, & kill.
Well I think the simplest solution to this little mystery is if Kris finds a way to get rid of us and we need to play using our vessel we made in ch1. You wouldn't need a script to shorten a name if you knew what would fill it. You would just hard code it to be that. You would only need a script to check if it was something you couldn't control, like a player's name.
I always just asumed that Kris had a safe file on the light world before the events on the game, for me it always was the only option
hey half bread. Since your instant noodles thing is always popping up, that reminds me: What do you know about Serious Mode (the thing that makes the noodles behave differently/changes item names to be less silly in undertale) and is there anything like that in Deltarune (yet)?
I didn't even know that was a thing, thats really interesting
Yeah, it’s called serious mode. It’s actually kinda interesting. When activated, it removes various jokes from battles. It activates in both the genocide boss fights, and in the three boss monster fights (Toriel, Asgore, and Asriel). One thing is does is change item names. There’s a lot of item name changes, but a few notable ones are:
ButtsPie -> Pie
SpidrDont -> SpdrDonut
InstaNood -> I.Noodles
Annoy Dog -> Dog (Not possible without save manipulation, but I happened to see it on the wiki while getting the exact changes and thought it was too funny not to share.)
As SaiaiChan mentioned, it also changes the way the noodles are eaten. Instead of the super long wait for the noodle to cook, you just eat them dry. They also heal you for 90 HP instead of 4.
There's a few related-ish cases in Deltarune, that I know of.
One is the Lancer Cookie. In the overworld, it only heals you for 4 HP in Ch 1 (despite saying it'll do 5), & a measly 1 HP in Ch 2... but in battle (as Lancer puts it, it "will heal you in times of need"), it'll heal you for 50 HP!
And the S. Poison in Ch 2 is also nuanced; in the overworld, it directly drains 20 HP from whoever uses it. (Except for Noelle; she senses that it's unsafe, so she just pretends to drink it & nothing happens.)
But in battle, it instantly heals 40 HP, but then drains 60 total over time (not going below 1 HP though).
However, if someone's already knocked out, using it on them will heal them the 40 HP, & as long as they're still downed directly after that (just closer to naturally regenerating back up) it won't injure them any further.
I think the "serious mode" was a bit of a prototype for those other nuanced healing items as well, such as Kris healing more from Choco Diamonds, Susie from Hearts Donuts, & the whole named Tea deal.
i'm so glad i found this channel recently. it has become a quick favorite of mine. i love the humor and timing, it's super charming, and i can feel the love put into these videos.
thank you!!
To be honest, it could be either December or Papyrus, as we know both are very likely to become relevant at one point.
-Papyrus has the “Interesting coincidence” Easter egg when you input his name
-On the description, it talks about Papyrus not being here yet
-Sans has asked us to visit Papyrus, but so far we don’t know when we’ll see him
-There’s clearly something going on with Dess, being mentioned in chapter 2 as well as very likely to be the person stuck in the code, as many people think.
-Dess does seem like she could be Determined, as she was always standing up for Noelle and even hit Kris with a whiffle bat once. Though those are also Justice traits, so who knows?
-Just finding Dess somewhere will mess around with the plot a bit, because finding someone accidentally somewhere is a bit plot-armorish. Transitioning to her POV might be a better segway, seeing as how we the Soul would actually know where she is
Thanks to HBC for sponsoring our betting system! /j
imagine how awesome a sudden swap to dess's POV would be. ralsei tries pulling a "do you wonder how susie is doing now?" on us and wait a second that ain't susie
@@clawcakes2 Ralsei: Oh crap I accidentally lost your soul, Kris. We’re gonna have to go hunting like it’s Easter
I love that idea more than transitioning normally lmao
Actually, aren't Sans words something like "Will you play with my brother?" Am I misremembering that?
That COULD mean "Play" as in the sense of a video game
@@i010001 I tried checking the deltarune wiki, but that doesn’t have the specific wording. I actually have no idea
I never knew that Kris had a save file in chapter 2 as well. That must mean that they saved in between chapters, along with the other things they did like eating the pie, plugging in the TV, and possibly creating the cyber world dark fountain. (Yes that is a possibility, I'm not getting into it.) After all, at times, you see it flickering. The light only you can see. By second nature, you reach out, and...
That script to change "Since chapter [x]" to "???" is very, very interesting... why does that exist?? That's so weird!
I had an idea where in a future chapter, Kris would rip you out and lock you out of whatever building they were going into, and you would have to go find someone or something else to be your vessel. Seems like it just got a lot more plausible!
I had no idea about those dialogue changes in the Flowey and Asriel fights - that's so neat! You really do never stop learning new things about this game. I have a feeling that will be even more true of Deltarune...
Also! If you start your save file from Chapter 2, Mettaton will act as if you've talked to him before, indicating one of the following.
A. Kris talked to Mettaton in chapter 1
B. Kris has talked to Mettaton before the events of the game
C. Toby forgot to add dialogue for if you hadn't talked to him previously
This might have been patched out, but it was the case when I first played chapter 2 (as soon as it came out).
I just assumed Kris having their own save file was to display that Kris is their own person and not a stand-in for the player.
If you cheat to save immediately after starting a run, is there already time on it?
Maybe, at some point, we'll need to do something in the light world while Kris is in the dark world so we'll have to take over someone in the light world. Maybe, it'll all be a ploy by Kris & Ralsei to get our attention on something Kris screwed up so they can do stuff while we're not watching.
Maybe if you make the choices that Kris wants to make, Kris will start to warm up to the player. Kris and the player will become good pals.
What if you have the possibility to just jump over all of the chapters just like ch.1 and then you can see what Kris did by leaving him alone? Would that make some kind of difference?
still kris wouldnt like us, our existance means that we are removing kris's freedom, and even if we make the choices that he would, we still are making them, not kris
@@justarandompearsonlol8298*them
@@drago3036 *literallydoesntmattertothestorywhatsoever /j
@@Kirbzzy Just because you believe it doesn't matter to the story, doesn't mean it doesn't matter at all. Toby Fox explicitly chose to use those pronouns for Kris for a reason. Just as it would be incorrect (based on the info we have right now) to use "he" to describe Toriel or Noelle, and it would be weird to use "she" to describe Asgore or Rudy, it is at the VERY least incorrect to describe Kris as anything other than "they".
Additionally, Toby Fox created games with multiple characters who have trans allegories/arcs, as well as multiple explicitly LGBTQA+ characters. As the creator of the games and as someone who is Very Aware of the reception of the games, Toby Fox knows that those details about their characters deeply matter to many of the LGBTQA+ fans who rarely get to see themselves represented in popular games. Everyone understands if you forget the pronouns of a character sometimes, of course! We all make mistakes! But why would you go out of your way to misgender a character? In general, that's weird. At worst, it comes across as rude and dismissive of the impact that that can have on other transgender/nonbinary fans of the game, to whom that detail may be especially meaningful.
TLDR:
It matters to many people, and it is incorrect to call Kris anything else. You can easily change ONE pronoun, and it's honestly weird to mess up a character's info on purpose. If you hate that Kris uses they/them pronouns so much, and it makes you mad when people correct each other without any maliciousness, why bother interacting with this game or fandom? Either leave people alone or you can go be mad about it somewhere else lol. Thanks!
Sans saying "It's been a while, why don't you SAVE?" is possibly a reference to Ness's Father from Earthbound.
This is what I have been wondering about for a long time.
Great video!
i feel like we're almost definitely going to become the goner vessel at some point
We will be playing as Spamton. Obviously.
This explains a lot about the first time save file.
if mettaton is playable in chapter 3 i will die
Mettaton vs Spamton battle confirmed
Lol
One experiment I want to try is what happens when you beat chapter one without saving, then continuing to chapter 2 with the same save file
6:21
IT NEEDS
TO BE
"AT LEAST 7"
SO 8 IS
ACCEPTABLE
Have I mentioned how much I love the TTS voice you use? It's so soothing.
Imagine playing as papyrus that would indeed epik
Papyrus has yet to appear in Deltarune afterall. There IS a chance he'll look differently in Deltarune though, as the look of Papyrus, is not all of himself, it's an armor costume Papyrus wore at a costume contest, according to Sans in Undertale. Only part of his sprite is actually him without the costume covering him
@@zigazav1 true infact I think he will wear normal clothes yet there is to find out if papyrus even gonna be seen at all
Popped up and instantly clicked it
Exactly
Literally me 🥶
There is one thing I found in relation to this. If you play through and finish an empty Chapter 1 save file without overwriting Kris, you cannot play that "save" in Chapter 1 ever again. However, that "save" does, in fact, carry over into Chapter 2 "Kris" file where it is playable and contains your picked up items.
Theoretically, you could be able to carry a consistent "Kris" file through all 7 chapters. without
While Toby totally could have some sort of "chapter zero" plans, he's probably just filling it in that array because arrays HAVE to start at index 0, but if you leave a string array element empty, it can cause problems. Also, it's pretty common to ignore the 0 index element of an array so that the first "true" element is index 1. For example i am working on a game right now with 10 cutscenes, each named "cc1, cc2 etc... cc10". I made a function to play them, and i didn't want to have to remember to call "PlayCutscene(0)" to play the first, "PlayCutscene(3)" to play the fourth, etc.
So i put a dummy video in the first slot, the zero index.
So there's two very good reasons for chapter 0 existing, and having dummy data filled in. Let's also say toby wants to loop through the array of chapters (to do something for every chapter)... If any of those indexes in the array are left empty, then it can cause an error. He could specifically check if things are null, but it's annoying to do that all the time if you don't actually need to. You have to do it enough as it stands normally when making games.
So there's a crapload of reasons for him to have a "chapter 0" that means absolutely nothing. Toby IS a prankster and undertale IS super meta, but i think it's a lot more likely that the man just wants 1 to mean 1 when he's programming instead of 0 being 1 :p
its not really common to put a dummy object as the first index, thats just you
Hm... the strange thing about the save file name is that if you were "playing" as someone, you'd think it would still display the player name, right? So I'd think it might be less a case of a second player character than a save file hijacking like flowey did. I do think the idea of a second playable character is really neat though.
You're playing as someone but aren't someone so that's why, which goes against what I think in undertale (imo chara and the player are not the same, still we can see chara in genocide so we aren't chara)
December / Dess seems likely
Possibly some kinda memory or something seems more likely then playing as Papyrus, and I think everyone can agree not Mettaton. December seems most likely as Papyrus goes unseen and is more likely a secret, side quest thing, or something that will come up later.
Gaster being smacked with a broom is based
>Instant noodles
>15 minutes
Jesus Christ, have a mercy on this poor soul!
the reason for the whole "7 characters or more" thing with names is because, in undertale, your name could only be 6 characters long, and if you changed it manually with a save file edit to be longer than that, you'd get a little easter egg in the menu where the "???" is, but instead of that, you'd get "Easy to change, huh?"
deltarune seems like it's HEAVILY built off of undertale, so it's more likely that code that is unused there is less likely to be intended for the player to speculate about, and more for just saving toby time in dev
doesn't mean it COULDN'T mean anything, just means it probably won't
The wingdings at 6:21 translate to "IT NEEDS TO BE # AT LEAST 7 # SO 8 IS ACCEPTABLE"
I think there's something interesting about your point at 0646:
You say that there's a few options on who we will play in the Light World due to 7 letter name being in the code. But I think you forgot one other option:
Krismas.
His old nickname. I have no idea what it would mean or imply, but it fits the bill and it still associates with Kris.
I think the three save files might allude to the 3 major routes this game will take. Sure, Toby has said there is only 1 ending, but with what we've seen so far, the attitudes of those around us can be wildly effected. I think the routes will be Social (being nice and seeing everything), Anti/Semi-Social (Not seeing everything/ not recruiting everyone, and shades in between), and Weird. I think the end results will be the same, but just like how things differ between pacifying the King and defeating him, the mood towards your actions will differ WILDLY
I new Fotoshop Flowey was Powerful but erasing Something that doesnt exist? wow.
Toby adding the smallest details to get the attention of the 99 theorists:
SO THAT'S HOW DECEMBER DISSAPEARED
The other playable character has got to be the vessel, right? Since you can name it anything you want, there would have to be a code for IF it's more than seven characters.
I would've never thought about how Kris has their own save! This is really interesting!
I don't often say this but I think yours is the only channel that I eagerly await videos from
I thought its supposed to mean that kris was a person before we come into there body. While frisk is more of a vessel than a human.
Edit think to thought
True, I always saw it as another sign that Kris are not us and yet we use them to save
In relation to the whole name thing: Maybe it’s the vessel. I’ve been thinking for a while that there may be a time that we take control over the vessel, perhaps if Kris swaps souls with them at some point. I’m not sure what the question mark thing would be about though, unless the vessel is referred to as something like “The Vessel” or “The Human” in the menu
What I find interesting is that saving in the light world has it's own UI that's different from the dark world's save interface
This has been my favorite mystery since Chapter 1. Great video!
Waluigi is also 7 letters long
i always thought that kris having a save file and the player overriding it was symbolism for the player having complete control over kris's body
5:29
* You think of putting an image of Kris in a jar here...
* but... that's weird...
The Kris save file overwrite may (or may not) be for a plot point, indeed.
Or it may just be a subtle hint to players that a saveless route/easter egg will exist when the game is done.
I always thought that the importance of saving over Kris' save file is that you as the player are literally taking away Kris' abilities to do anything of his own. By saving over his file you are kinda rewriting his brain in a sense. And the ending of CH.1 kinda furthers this along. Kris managed to get back controll over the body so he managed to make a save.
After watching to the end of the video, I feel like the Kris' save file occuring between chapters might be an auto-save system for Deltarune. Like, you know, since it's saved while you're in the light world. I still think it will have some kind of in-game explanation for it tho.
I'm not sure if this is related, but the fact that the save file uses the player's name in dark world kinda reminds me of how in undertale, the save file uses Chara's name instead of Frisk's name. (I mean obviously, the game tries really hard to hide Frisk's real name, but it might have some connection or something somthing something)