The lack of people being angry that the FAQ is weeks late, it reminds you of how kind and patient your viewers are. This fills you with Determination! Q: Why do you think Chara is 9? Isn't 9 just the highest number? A: At the risk of potentially rehashing future material, there's a few things wrong with this assumption. First, consider Mettaton. Mettaton's Defense is supposed to be so high, he's completely invulnerable. Is his defense 999? nope. It's 255. In a game-sense 255 is the highest a number can be (because computers) but in base 10, 9 is the highest a single digit can be. Chara is less the idea of being "the most powerful thing in the game" and more the idea of min/maxing. This idea of using the minimal resources to get the maximum results. Consider the alarm clock dialogue: undertale.com/alarmclock/flowey/ Here Toriel tells us that Chara used to fill their glass as close to the top as possible, no matter how thirsty they were, because "it was the most efficient way to fill the glass." Reflecting this concept of min/max (maximum water while minimizing cups). Of course there are other little flavor things, hinting that Chara is associated with 9. The locket and real knife (chara's own items) give 99 as stats. The two times Chara attacks without the player (sans and asgore) they do 9999999 and 9999999999 damage, When you Fight Asgore (neutral route), and try to TALK to him, the dialogue changes every time, until you reach 4, and then it starts repeating. But what's odd here is... on TALK number 9, suddenly the dialogue says "All you can do is FIGHT. " before returning to the default message from 10 onward. Say what you will about Chara before they died, but within the bounds of the gameplay, Chara only shows up in the genocide run, only when you FIGHT *everyone*. In their current form, Chara is associated with FIGHTing to become a strong as possible, to max out every stat, until you have reached the Absolute. That doesn't mean every single 9 in the game is secretly Chara, any more than every Fire using enemy is secretly a Boss Monster. Just that 9 is a number strongly associated with Chara. Q: Wait Spamton is a CAT? How do you figure? A: I did a whole video on this already so rather than rehash it here, how about I just...just sorta: ruclips.net/video/GGKtlEdEBRM/видео.html Q: Why is there a deadbody next to your desk? A: Eheh I forgot how weird this might be to new viewers, that "robot" made it's debut in this video here: ruclips.net/video/16KEmGUf_O8/видео.html Q: Cool... staff? That is a staff right? 3:08 A: Aww.. it's supposed to be a broom. Time to update the sprite! Q: "Omega Ice-E Neo?! What?!" A: Uhhhh that's a reference to this one; ruclips.net/video/ftQNVAY6KeU/видео.html I just realized this FAQ is more like a reference catalogue, oops! Q: 1:51 Are those fingers supposed to be pointing at something or....? A: A...aw..... This was my first time using the "Rich Text" tool to animate the text instead of the "Simple Text" tool. Apparently the preview is extremely inaccurate and I failed to catch that in edit. Oops! Q: Is that why all the other text is so weirdly spaced? A: Yeah. ): Q: Why don't you just look at the enemy data, or the bullet data for info on the Elements? A: As of time of writing this, the Element system is still in the very early stages of implementation, and thus there is *very very little* code to find. Only Elements 6 and 0 have bullet data, and only elements 1, 7, and 6 have Armor data. None of the "enemies" actually have Element data (at least not directly tied to them). Instead the recruit data lists their "elements" as strings. That is to say... the Recruit Data labels the enemies but those labels aren't enforced (yet). So for now that data has to be used as a lens for what Toby intends, rather than a law. Think of this video as me extrapolating as hard as possible with what (very little) information we *do* have. Q: Really? You think Papyrus is related to 2 *purely* because of his Check Data? A: I didn't wanna go into it (because I didn't want be too tin-foil-hat about it). But there are other associations between Papyrus and the number 2. When the dog salad heals for 2HP it says "Oh! There are bones!" There's the fact that he's the 2nd boss, the fact he has 2 Blue Attacks (turning your SOUL blue, and the blue bones), the fact that there's 2 ways to get past him (the fight itself and just losing to him repeatedly), the fact he is the 2nd brother (Sans is older) when you reach the point where you can spare him, his defense = HP * -2 Are these a stretch? Yes! Yes they are. They *super* are. But it's still pretty fun to think about. (sans has quite a few too, this could be a video unto itself if I'm not careful). Q: Skymantle? Mouse Token? What are you talking about? Where is this coming from? A: The game has data for armor that isn't currently obtainable. It's possible Toby may never use them, but the "pink bow" was previously an unobtainable piece of armor... until Chapter 2 dropped, so for now, I don't see any harm in discussing them, especially since they have so much information relating to the Elements. If you want to hack them into your save, you need only change the Item ID of one of your armors to 18 (skymantle) or 6 (mouse token). Or you can plug your save-file into Spamton's save editor. I wouldn't be surprised if Toby never uses the Mouse Token (even though it's practically begging to be the treasure chest at the end of the cheese maze) but I *would* be surprised if the Skymantle doesn't make an appearance, given the Shadow-Mantle dialogue from Seam. Q: Where did you get the sprites for those? A: I just made them, the Skymantle and Mouse Token don't' have sprites. Q: And... how did you get Jevil as a recruit? A: Spamton Save Editor. saveeditor.spamton.com/deltarune2 Q: There's so much fun stuff in the code! I wanna look in there too! How can I get started? A: I'd get the Modtools from Underminer, found here: www.reddit.com/r/Underminers/comments/bcztob/new_underminers_discord_server/ Q: What's with all the Japanese? A: I... uh... look I'll stop looking in the Japanese localization when Toby stops hiding stuff there. >:[ Q: You said Toby mentioned "Chaos" in the Deltarune stream but uhhh that stream is 4 hours long, can I have a timestamp? A: Yep! ruclips.net/video/rksOYId-cNA/видео.html If that didn't work it's 2 hours and 53 minutes in. Q: Why are you asking if Papyrus is red or orange? A: I'm referring to the shadow in this video: ruclips.net/video/j50V8Isevyo/видео.html Q: Wait.. what if... Spamton is being held up by CAT6 cables?! (Theory proposed by Inter Dimensional Goober) A: Aw... I wish I'd thought of that, that's super clever! Q: Why is Element 7 MOUSE? A: I... I honestly have no idea. D: Sorry. Q: Shouldn't MIKE be Element 7 because Dust Bunnies (look for couches to hide under?) A: Aw... that's super clever I wish I'd thought of that. D:
i am so intrested in your work but could you find ot the lore about the state called fallen down when a monster is about to turn to dust basically paralization
Okay wait some stuff im interested in and you might be too.. The song might be singed by the vessel we created since we created it in our head. Thats pretty logical The Heaven is the biggest tier out of all the tiers (Card world is tier 1 and like that bla bla bla) since i think a person has bringed a nice theory that said: "The heavens might be the Level where we, players are controlling the characters" and we can say that Krises soul is probably a Fallen Angel that is trying to get it revenge.
8:15: i saw a theory a while back that the reason jevil's and spamton's arenas don't seem to be properly placed on the map is because the physical objects representing them are located in dark, hard to reach areas irl. jevil would be a joker card under the cabinet that corresponds to card castle irl while spamton would be a deleted file, as would mettaton's drawing (or maybe it'd be in the trash or have fallen under the desk), and the closet that's big enough to fit a person in would represent the castle basement and the place where mettaton neo's body is rotting away
They're also seemingly at the lower "edge" of the dark world, perhaps the integrity of a dark world diminishes near the edges so weird spatial phenomena happen
@@huvjh6594 that’s an interesting idea. I never really stopped to think about the mansion. Maybe the acid river is like a box of spare batteries? We’ve got a box like that in our house and I could see a public space like a computer lab having one too, an assortment of working and empty batteries one must fish through when a device runs low. But then again most of the devices in the lab are wired, so maybe that wouldn’t be as needed. Who knows, I’m just throwing stuff out here. Or, and now I don’t have evidence for this since I just thought of it, if Queen is sometimes theorized to be one of the computers, and there’s personalized rooms for everyone, what if the mansion is a computer tower? It’d have the joke of being, well, a tower, and it’d kinda work? Ehh maybe not as much. Oh, maybe the reason it’s a city is because all the buildings are computer towers? I think that makes more sense. Personally I always had a darker interpretation of the specificity of the closet being large enough for a person… I mean, wouldn’t Kris/the player forcing their hand want to hide the evidence of Snowgrave? A closet isn’t a great place but it buys time before people find out.
@@EndertheDragon0922 the thing is the closest tells you it's big enough to hide in no matter what route you take, I saw a theory that the closest is where the knight was hiding before they made the dark fountain.
@@thirdwheel9938 Seriously, Spamton cat was just the beginning, something crazy is gonna be explained with the element explanation. That or a really hard boss fight.
To me, Ralsei's cut duologue saying that Noelle is good at magic despite never using it before, feels like evidence that she HAS used it before. Although the "Maybe she'll make you a popsicle," is DEFINITELY snowgrave foreshadowing
The train of thought of Noelle having previously used magic might have to do with Catti's dialogue showing us that she, along with Kris and Noelle have dabbled in the occult. "Kris... you and I... Studied occult. Together...Incantation for silence... Find it. Tell me." "Taught her... Protection spells. Showed her... occult findings." It definitely feels like a detail a lot of people overlook and I'm curious to see how it affects the Dark World in later chapters, if at all. Even if magic doesn't actually work in the Light World, it doesn't seem to farfetched to think any "spells" Catti might have taught to Kris and Noelle might in the Dark World. There's also Kris' "how 2 use magic" search in Queen's Mansion, their desire to use magic definitely also feels like major foreshadowing for something in the future.
No she plays a videogame with magic with her dad. Although the catty dialogue is an intriguing find, in the hospital she speaks with her dad about finally getting to the ice dragon. In the snowgrave route, Noelle's dialogue changes as she suggests using ice elemental attacks because it does more base damage compared to the fire attacks with elemental weakness bonus. Her dad also said that she had played the game with him for years. About the foreshadowing with Kris, he was raised in a monster family. He had asked Toriel when his horns were going to grow when he was little, remember? There is a possibility this is another instance of a young Kris not understanding human characteristics and abilities from monster ones. But in contribution to your theory, in Kris's stats it does show he has a very small amount of magic when wearing certain armor. Also, could this be the reason he can perform the snowgrave spamton fight action "X-Slash"?
There is speculation that she has used snowgrave in undertale before. We know from the alarm clock Dialogue that she and her family definitely exist in undertale. Sans has specifically referenced her and a big snow Strom together in the Casino.
I would absolutely love seeing Toby make more intensive battle mechanics that actually require the player to use Elements to their advantage, with most secret bosses basically requiring item prep from this point onwards. Chapter one introduced us to how Deltarune's combat works, and to a lesser extent its items. Chapter two introduced us to Elements and basic mechanics relating to them through the Castle Town and various dialogue in menus. It would make a ton of sense if chapter three tied these two aspects together more fully, with the current mechanics we have just being a sort of experienced player tactic to make fights they've been through before easier on repeat playthroughs.
The elements being in chapter 3 or 4 does also seem to align with how battle mechanics are introduced. Chapter 1 introduced the main combat mechanics and gave hints towards performing actions on the same turn (for example act + spare). Chapter 2 outright tells you that it's possible and gives hints towards the element system. So yeah, the more you think about this, the more sense it makes for us to get more element stuff within the next chapters
Here's a thought. You know how Ice seems to be connected to being detached and distant? Well, when fighting Swatchlings, Susie and Ralsei can each change the colour of the enemy by half the amount Kris can. Susie has the Half-Warm ACT, in which she talks about things that are hot. Ralsei however gets Half-Cold, where he talks about cold things. And what trait does Ralsei seem to show off numerous times? Emotional detachment. He acts as though nothing is wrong after Sapmtong NEO, tries lamely to brush off people insulting him, and shuts down entirely while explaining The Roaring. Hell, in Chapter 1, his dialogue portraits have very little diversity to the emotions they convey, especially compared to Susie, even before she opens up. And what does Ralsei talk about in Chapter 2, where his faceset is like, 4 times as diverse? "I even hid my face so you wouldn't see..." Ralsei may also have the Ice element, as opposed to fire like you would expect from his resemblance to the Dreemurr family. It would fit with his character, explain his connections to Noelle, and maybe even gameplay wise substitute a Snowgrave Noelle later down the line. Like, instead of Noelle using Snowgrave to beat a strong boss, it'd be Ralsei who does it. Maybe the use of the spell removes whoever used it from the party for a while. On a normal route, Ralsei is out of the party and Noelle takes his place as the support, whereas on a Snowgrave route, Ralsei stays in your party.
Ralsei also talks how he's lonely. But i guess the lonelyness itself doesn't mean much as there are multiple characters that are lonely in a way. Spamton being left to rot in a dumpster, Jevil locked -in- er- outside a cell, And then there's Asgore, Berdly, Noelle, Kris and Susie who also have been/are lonely to an extend. Now that i think about it, that's quite a lot of lonely characters. And that's not even "unnatural" as we all suffer from this in our own ways too. It's just that we uncovered a layer that in some other media wouldn't be covered or be completly overlooked. Deltarune gives us a lot hints at the personalities of its characters. Reminds me of how Toby Fox doesn't make merch of the lightners cause lightners are supposed to be like "acctual humans" rather than objects. So yeah, he nails that i guess.
if susie has a warmify act. is she associated to element fire ? rude buster sprite does seem that of inflammable. and i believe her mane ax was forged from a dragon welp ?. she does act all tough and strong and weirdly enough she quotes how dark burger is cooked to perfection
I would love to believe Toby watches this stuff and is sitting here like “man these guys are way over complicating everything” great video tho! It’s very interesting
Well he does keep good tabs on what the fandom is up to. I like to think he watches fan theories so he can figure out how to throw curve balls. It would be kinda boring if an chapter came out and completely adhered to a popular theory without any surprises.
@@KateYagi I remember he did actually seem to take some inspiration from a Deltarune fancomic, and had Chapter 2 have some similarities to it! I don't remember the name, I just know it was one where the protagonists kept meeting duplicate Ralsei with the letters in their name re-ordered and color swapped.
@@plant7371 OHHHH I SAW THAT it was actually really cool like how do you get so bored that you make that masterpiece (you get better ideas when you're bored and you do stuff you want to do better)
It both is and isn't true. Because quantum physics has plenty of things that are truly random. But the inevitable increasing if randomness, entropy, will eventually become so random that it is near perfectly ordered, with energy states equalized across the universe.
@@chaotixthefoxinfact "luck" also would be a term that both wrong and correct One hand. Nothing is random you just dont know the outcome, everything in universe is happening with smth else that isnt random. For example if you got rolled over by a rock thats not really random because that rock was pushed so, luck doesnt exists its just a outcome havent calculated or aware of yet
I have to quickly mention a theory that i came up with recently. It’s not related to the element system, but i just wanted to throw it out there: The great door. Most likely, it is the connecting door between the unused classroom and the supply closet. That would explain why lancer was able to enter castle town: if the great door (the door in the light world) was open, someone from the card kingdom (the classroom) could travel to castle town (the closet). Now, ralsei is suprised that the door is open. That implies that it usually isn’t. It also implies that you can’t open it from within the dark world. And we can also guess that the great door opens when the door in the light world opens, that would make the most sense. That means that the light world door was opened just recently. That in turn means that the classroom dark world *must be a recent creation.* If there’s a dark fountain in a place, you can’t interact with the light world there; entering the place would just bring you into the dark world. That means that someone (the knight) recently went to the classroom, opened up the closet door, and then made a fountain. As i was typing this out, i remembered that the classroom fountain being a recent thing was literally mentioned in game, when ralsei tells you the prophecy, so the impact of my theory just lessened dramatically. Still, i just wanted to put it out there that it was probably the knight that opened the great door
The most interesting thing is there is implications that Kris knows magic due to the Blade element. Kris somehow summoning a knife/keeping it hidden. Kris somehow removing a Soul from their body. The emphasis on Kris not using magic can be a trick to bait and switch people. Ralsei being suspicious so no one thinks anything of Kris and knows about the Soul. We don't know something about Kris and not in the way people are thinking. If the Dark World is the inverse of the Light World then Monsters without magic get magic. Then Kris not having Magic in the Dark Would could very well be a major plot point and explain how Kris removes their Soul. It would also explain how Noelle and Berdly got into the Dark World after setting up their study supplies. Sleep Magic. This means the Knight is... well anyone who could have Sleep Magic. Or not.
i mean, doesnt kris have a few acts that could be considered "magic"? iirc, he has the thing in the king fight that buffs defense... somehow, and the spamton neo fight gives him an extra attack in the act menu which is where other characters have their spells
Now that I think about it, Berdly could easily be Element 2. The element that protects from Element 2 is the Sky Mantle. Berdly is a bird and birds fly in the sky. His relation with Queen might also be the reason for Elec (as in Electric). (ngl sounds like a silly theory)
My best guess with the rude, chaos, and order thing is that it could kinda work like how bending works within “The Last Avatar” with there being branches in a major element. For an example: Electric could be the branch of Holy or both being a branch of a sky element. They could all be protected by the same amor of the the element they branch off of but they can also have an amour for a branch. So Rude can be a branch of Chaos.
Also, yeah. It's possible that electric and holy are just branches of sky. But, rude being a branch of chaos doesn't really work out. Maybe rude, chaos and order are branches of something else? Something much bigger? After all, chaos and order are heavy hitters, they're no small elements and rude might too be a major element. So, rude, chaos and order might be branches of some godlike element that is present everywhere
@@maxmanchik I want to explain my reasoning for thinking Rude beings a branch of a chaos. As Rude is heavily tied to Susie I would assume that most things with the Rude element would be very rude or violent, and being violent is usually against the rules so it opposes order is some capacity and what also opposes order in some way Chaos. So in my mind it would be either Chaos is a branch of Rude or Rude is a branch of Chaos. And I don’t think a secret boss would have a branch element so I w key with the second one.
Personally, I think Rude is the in between of Order and Chaos. Think about it, the opposites of Order's attributes match up with Susie perfectly, but she doesn't match up with unmitigated insanity of the only Chaos user we know, Jevil. Rude therefore is a half and half of Order and Chaos. Susie is not so ordered that she obeys without question, but she's also not so chaotic that everything she does is up to chance. She does what she wants to do, but she always does it for a reason.
About element 9, it could be defense against “destructive” elements, which constantly appear in RPGs as the trio of Fire Frost and Thunder. it is also common for there to be items that protect against all three. Edit: he said element 1 is electric/holy, so it’s not natural elements nor divine.
I also just noticed, Along with the standard natural trinity (fire/frost/thunder), we also have the potential for the metaphysical trinity (holy/occult/spirit) given our soul, if Catty’s dialogue has any merit.
Spamton could have the same element as the cats because the cats seem to have some order to them with the task manager. Spamton is very chaotic, but he represents spam mail and spam ads. Even thought those seem chaotic, they do have order in them through how ads and spam mail can be targeted to specific users. The targeting of spam ads and spam mail could be his order aspect.
Spamton seems very targeted on Kris' need for control too, I think that wa sa big aspect in him devising strategies (depending on route) to gain that heaven piercing workout ready body.
And if that's the case, it's not a coincidence why Spamton popped out of a rrash can just to deal with Kris. As we know, they both have some similarities and suffer from the same problem aka being under someone's control.
Another small detail that slightly proves this theory: when kris spins, (in the Jevil fight) the description for the act is “random chaos”, even though it’s soothing Jevil and is order more than chaos
got homestuck jumpscared 8:32 but it was worth it bc i like that version of the aspect wheel. youre like the only person ive seen who's acknowledged that opposite aspects are more connected than disconnected :0 anyway great video :D
Seriously though, literally shouted "No, no!" at the sight of that. Might have literal PTSD from getting WAY too involved in classpecting and having some bad experiences in the classpect community! Fun!
An off topic observation i had away from the element system is the strange running motif of Carnival stuff throughout both chapter such as the carnival games of the in the cyber world, the circus animal cages at the card kingdom, the mentioned carnival in the light world at the end of chapter 2, jevil being a clown with his overworld theme being "The Circus" . All of these refrences to carnivals and circuses gives me the impression that if it were to become a dark world it would have a greater significance than just simply being another dark world? Idk thank you for reading the end of my long ramble of a strange trend i started to see a couple of hours ago.
I forgot to mention that there is also two notable amusement park rides in the cyber world such as the Roller Coaster during Berdlys fight and the Ferris Wheel.
The two super bosses use theses carnival themes, even though it wasn’t really connected to spamtoms theme, as well as the out of place tea cup ride Maybe it could play into the theme of the dark world being a game, or an escape from reality
I think that element 6 is not cat, but strings. Many attacks from Tasque and Tasque Manager are using strings (that is, a wool for Tasque and a whip for Tasque Manager) and Spamton has strings attached to his body. Edit: okay, i have been rethinking and now I believe that on the game code, multiple elements occupy the same slot, and cat and strings might be the element 6. But keep on mind that this is only valid on the game code. Edit 2: can you guys fucking stop with the cat6 cables, i get it okay? I'm not blind, I'm seriously at my fucking limit here. Edit 3: Just remembered the elemental pairs, apparently cat and PUPPET are a "elemental pair" and is why the mannequin protect both against Spamton and the Tasques. But why is Puppet and Cat paired?
Oh my. Spamtom being a cat was such a snowball of discoveries with elements chart. Is so big that the snowball has snow enough for Snowdin... Nice video!
The Spamton Q&A addresses elements! YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT [Cats]!? WHAT AM I, YOUR [favorite search engine]!? FINE, I'LL GIVE YOU SOME [Free tool tips and funny animations!] HAVEN'T YOU HEARD OF [elemental pairs]!? WITH AN [Valuable item], YOU CAN DEFEND AGAINST [Puppet/Cat], OR [Thunder/Light], [Dark/Star]... JUST WATCH OUT FOR THE[$#&*] THAT USE [Death/Scythe]!!! NEVER AGAIN!!!!
I saw that too! It explains why the items that reduce cat damage also reduce damage from spamton, he's a puppet! (Additionally, he may also be a cat as well, considering a secret on the Spamton Sweepstakes website relates him to a cat raising video game Noelle used to play). Thunder/Light seems to be another way of saying Electric/Holy. Dark/Star I'm less sure about, but it may be a reference to the beings we see when Ralsei explains the Roaring (dark creatures with stars on them), or perhaps the save points (stars we only see in the Darkworld). Of course, it could also just be elements we haven't seen yet. The same could be said for Death/Scythe, but I don't think so. My first instinct when seeing Scythe is to think of Jevil, the only character we've seen have a scythe so far (Spamton and Jevil also reference each other in their dialogue). Does that mean Scythe is Chaos? Maybe, but I think scythe is much closer to Blade, given that scythes literally are a type of blade. Does that mean Death is Chaos? That doesn't seem right. Could Spamton be referring to Kris then? Maybe, but they aren't really associated with death, as we've never even seen them kill anyone. Is it then perhaps a future secret boss? A Weird Route character? Who knows, certainly not me. Especially since I'm typing this all at 3am lmao
maybe the names of the elements depend on who has them and not on the element itself... In any case I'm thinking of the 天 element to be something akin to 天罰 which is related to thunder... I mean, if you're struk by lightning, it's usually thought you were SMITED by whatever divine entity lives above in H E A V E N (天) And maybe the element can be changed depending on events, imagine if changing the class to Moss finder you changed Kris element to Blade:Moss and now have weakness to anti-moss attacks As you said, the code can change so I'm more interested in the storytelling posibilities, and changing Noel's element from Ice to Heaven would make her the angel, If she ever gets a lightning attack remember me- .... lightning... WASN'T THERE A LOT OF LIGHTNING IN THE ROARING... AS IN **ROARING THUNDER?!**
And... There being both a Shadow and Sky Mantle spefifically, perhaps even being the same one, while the Roaring is the world being covererd in darkness with some relation to the Angel...
@@Estra_Estra you know, you could say that chaos is order that was left in shadow, since shadow is a symbol of the unknown... a shadow like in a basement where the sunlight doesn't reach... too many symbolisms
Id also like to mention that Lightning is always divine in ancient cultures. the Aeniad describes Athena raining lighting down on the ships of Greece as "Divine Fire" while the Wolves of lightning, Raiju, are divine messengers, and also deliver Smiting bolts for the gods.
Very good video! You brought some very interesting things to my attention that I wasn't aware of. I've also been thinking about doing a video on the Elemental Magic, so I was a little nervous when I saw this video pop up, but thankfully we focused on very different aspects of the system! I look forward to your next upload. Keep up the great work! x)
8:38 Thank God(tier) you brought this up, I was holding back ready to comment about the opposing nature of Elements. There's a whole study on Classpects that the HS community gets into, and just like Toby- Hussie never shared much information that helped created a concrete system. gotta remember the two of them share philosophies!
I actually thought that was what would happen my first time through. At first I was a little disappointed at Spamton being used again since- and I know this is dumb because Toby is anything but- it felt a bit lazy? I definitely don’t think that anymore, though. It makes sense looking at it more closely since this route shows him to be very opportunistic. He encouraged Kris (or rather, the player) and Noelle to cause panic through their killings in return for the ring of thorns, which allowed him to slip into the mansion amidst the panic. It makes sense since he’s based on scammers- someone who will mercilessly ruin lives for their own gains. And honestly I like that this route shows just what he’s willing to do. Who cares if an entire city gets exterminated if it means Queen’s workers drop their guard enough for him to achieve his goals? And after thinking it over after my first time through the route, it wouldn’t have made sense for Noelle to suddenly gain the courage to fight back. Of course not. That would have been too much of a 180 far too soon. _Maybe_ later, but not now. Her not standing up to us shows how much control we still have over her, and it’s going to take a lot of willpower and growth for her to shake that off, assuming she can ever manage to do so, and honestly it’s all so much more disturbing this way. So bravo Toby, your idea was, unsurprisingly, much better than mine.
It could be like how Seam implied we can’t beat the next secret boss without the shadow mantle. We might need an item to protect against the ice element to survive snow grave.
Im just gonna throw something and see if it sticks, because im not really sure if it's solid, but since the sword spamton sells is called "THE BIG *ONE*" maybe it has something to do with the holy/electric element, aka element 1.
I guess the first two chapters are just introducing gameplay and from chapter three on woulds they will be more element reducing gear and elemental weapons which is cool with it being super important as the game gets harder and as the secret bosses get harder. (While spamtom is easier then jevil he technically isn’t a secret boss as in snowgrave he is the final boss)
9 being Blade would make so much sense actually, since you mentioned it's a number associated with Chara. Who has a pretty well known history with blades...
Yeah, I do agree. I only really like his and TwoLeftThumb's theories. Most of them seem to classify themselves as the "DARKEST MOST MYSTERIOUS THEORIES YOU HAVE EVER SEEN!!" and it's just so annoying
@@mihael64 *AGGRESSIVE COUGHING* YES *MORE AGGRESSIVE COUGHING* It's not that I don't like his content, it's just the way he presents it puts me off it. His theories are decent but just tedious to watch because he always goes on about how shocking they are.
How it's even possible to squeeze this much content out of a game at it's currently smallest state amazes me. I appreciate Your and others hard work to make stuff like this. I couldn't ever see myself doing anything like this for any game.
IMO Element 6's secondary element comes not from some meaning related to its primary aspect (Cat), but rather from the number Cat element happens to occupy in code. Number 6 in undertale and deltarune's code is strongly associated with gaster and cut content. Perhaps 6 stands for 'erased' things? Which would explain why Spamton only has this element in NEO form. It is implied that NEO form is actually Mettaton-Ghost's fanart of their own dream body they deleted into recycling bin. That would also reinforce connection to Gaster among 'cut content'/erased elements. As for Cat part of element, I don't think it's connected and if any other random element like Fight or Color were occupying spot of number 6, they'd still be sharing it with Erased element.
Now this may come as a shock but the wires holding spamton are probably CAT6 wires. Meaning that cat also has a representation of 6 in both the literal and metaphorical sense.
This This, is something that hit my head yesterday, it's not exactly a theory, maybe a prediction but it's a new view of the game for that i discovered on my own. (It's kinda dumb but i wanted to share it, also nice video keep up the good work, I'd love to see more Pokemon vids too) So Undertale, we know the game now, you spare and you kill, it has different out comes, different endings, endless timelines of different outcomes. Deltarune, everything you do. doesn't matter, everything you do is irrelevant and does not matter, killing and sparing has the same outcome. But then, we were introduced to Chapter 2, the "Snowgrave Route" well what if i told you that the Snowgrave Route isn't a genocide run. It's a parodox you created, I'll explain Toby Fox has stated himself that this game has 1 ending, he's right there is 1 ending and only 1, this game is the story he's trying to tell he's right on all that, but this "Snowgrave Route" was something that was never meant to happen, you see Deltarune already has its story it's plot and it's ending already scripted it's a game, it has been planned out and it has only 1 timeline it's regular timeline. But snowgrave route is something you can cause. In Undertale, the way that everything is viewed is that is that it's already happened, everything you do in undertale has already happened, it's been set to happen, it was meant to be, in deltarune the Snowgrave Route was never meant to to happen, you caused it. But the game still goes through the story it's written to go as, that's why the chapter 2 ending isn't different. After doing the Snowgrave Route and leaving the dark world, you can go to the hospital, Noelle isn't important for this but the one item in the hospital room is. The little bead toy. What i think this toy is, it's a way to represent the timeline in a way, the blue bead was snapped off. Representing berdly's death. That. That was never meant to happen at all. But you caused it. You created this new timeline that was never meant to be. I think that the snowgrave run isn't its own genocide. It's a new timeline that you created, it'll lead to its own chaos. And how i think every chapter will work is that there endings will always be the same. But the gameplay and regular story of the Snowgrave run will be very different. And for the ending. You'll get the ending VERY differently but have the same end. Deltarune is a Game. A regular RPG with a story to tell, but you can create something far more interesting than that. A new outcome. With the same end. If you didn't fully understand what i said then that's alright Basically the Snowgrave Route is a new timeline that you created. Deltarune is a regular game that has a story to tell. It has 1 ending. But you. You can do something else with this. You created a forbidden door that was never meant to happen with the story. I like to call this new way of perspective the game. The "Forbidden Route" Also another i came across by is that you can't get the Egg in snowgrave run so that's another to mention for this, i think that all of this will definitely connect to gaster in a way. If you liked this then thanks for reading. If you think you stuff to add onto this then feel free to share your thoughts, thanks again for reading. :) (If you ever want to do a video on this feel free, i think this worth talking about)
You deadass just said something 90% of people thought of while playing Snowgrave. That said, Snowgrave is a genocide route. You go on about it being something the player created that wasn't intended and claim the Genocide route was set in stone. It wasn't. Strictly speaking, both are "unintended", but both were put in by Tony so that the player can have a different journey. In Undertale it changes the story on a foundational level, because that game is about choice. In Deltarune, it will not, because Deltarune is about the illusion of choice. The journey will be different, but the destination is the same. Also outcome and end are the same in this context. You can't have a new outcome and different end because those words mean the same thing here.
Super interesting vid as always! When the Homestuck aspect chart popped up on screen I got really excited, because a lot of the way Deltarune seems to work with the ideas of roles and magic kind of reminds me of the SBURB/SGRUB title system. I'm honestly not nearly as fond of HS as I used to be, but I still find the mechanics of how Paradox Space works to be super cool and fascinating. To actually get back to the topic of Deltarune, I'm suprised HBC didn't mention Berdly's Ice weakness, because unless I'm remembering wrong, that's the only time the game explicitly tells you what kind of elemental vulnerability a character has. Also, I didn't know who could get that much dialogue from shuffling darkners around in Castle Town, I'll have to try that the next time I play!
It only just occurred to me how concerning it is that there is a dust element. Assuming monsters dying runs on the same logic as undertale, there is basically a corpse element.
As a new viewer, I just wanna say I have no issues with the TTS to begin with, but I would also like to show my appreciation for your handling of the TTS as a skill, due to the fact I can already tell that you are putting in an extra effort to ensure the TTS is actually pronouncing words/names the way you want it to, rather than JUST typing a script and sending it straight in. Pretty much No TTS gets everything right, but I haven't heard _anything_ weird from your videos that wasn't like... clearly intentional.
Oh man sometimes we spend hours trying to fix a word before concluding there's nothing to be done, and then I just kinda tuck a little visual easter egg in there to excuse it and call it a day.
There was a post on the official Deltarune site saying that one of the elements was Death/Scythe (the same post implying that Element6 is not just Cat‚ but Cat/Puppet). If Element2 is what Jevilsknife deals‚ then it's pretty clear that Element2 is Death/Scythe and having armor 9 (or Determination) be effective against Death would make a lot of sense.
The trick is to not move until the last long double helix. Moving makes you hit more projectiles and take more damage, and the amount you take without the helix is not enough to kill you.
Y'know, if Ch3 adds an elemental system to the game, I wonder if that means it'll also include a mechanic to switch out party members. Right now each party member (barring Ralsei) is tied to a specific element (Rude, Ice, and Wind/Holy if we include Berdley), so maybe Ch3 will give the player the option to switch around their party at save points in order to hit enemy weaknesses and tank enemy resistances. We also know from the Halloween sword/pencil that element changing weapons are on the table too, so I'm thinking Deltarune is gonna start really doubling down on its puzzle elements in combat. Which also means the Weird route is gonna make the game harder, as we potentially lose a reliable source of Holy/Wind damage, in exchange for making our Ice damage stronger... alongside whatever other unforseen consequences.
After all this time, the whole spamton giveaway thing confirmed that (at least in the words of spamton) that one of the elements is cat/puppet. Are we the puppets to the cats?
i think certain elements like ice or blade are stronger forms of the elements they follow from. the way those that use them act symbolizes the way of "growing stronger" is characterized in deltarune/undertale an increase in LOVE, a decrease in attachment to empathy. you get stronger by caring less about the consequences of your actions, caring less about how what you do affects others. a frozen heart loses the capacity to care so deeply a sharpened gem cuts through its enemies with less resistance i dont have this well constructed exactly, but i do think this is definitely something to dig into a bit more
I really hope these elements have a bigger impact on the game, like not only do the elements have different effectiveness with certain armor’s and weapons. But I also hope that certain enemies and characters have stronger bonds or have specific effects if paired with each other in battle.
I like the homestuck reference,since toby work a lot with the web comic is normal for him to put reference of it in his works. Also nice description of the connection between the element.
There’s a secret link in the Spamton Sweepstakes that features two characters, one with a crescent moon for a head, and the other seems to have a cloud for a head. This is probably where the sky element will come into play.
Hey this seems like a good place to put my deltarune theories. I bet some of these have already been said but just in case: One of the followers in undertale holds an egg looking thing, and says that he's holding a piece of gaster. This may imply that the eggs in deltarune are actually pieces of gaster as well. A sort of prediction I have is that particular piece the follower is holding got there somehow after the events of deltarune. The eggs might also be a metaphor for the pieces of gaster shattered across time and space, since you place them in different areas of the town. Since that shelf thing in the unused classroom dark world is the card castle, the closet in the computer lab dark world is probably the queen's castle. The narration says that a large person could fit inside, that sounds suspicious but it might be a reference to giga queen. This isn't a theory, more a thing I just wanted to point out: kris is actually the one who suggests to susie that they go to the library
The level of detail and polish in this video is truly aspirational! Also, the existence of a holy/electric element does make me wonder if the “holy” in “holy cungadero” is not just to make it sounds like a swear, but also a literal description…
I find it interesting that Spamton references both electricity and cats when you defeat him by reducing his Hp "I will fill my [body] with [Electricaty] and become Spamton [EX]"
I think that we would be remissed to not look further into the potential(and to an extent already existant) role of the more common elements that exist in most if not all elemental systems. Ice is already a clear player in this puzzle, but a common elemental partner to it is water, which, although not acknowledged so far in the elemental system has theming that exists in the more hidden parts of the game's narrative. As you've covered before in one of your other videos, there is a surprisingly large amount of reference to the ocean in Deltarune. Ocean.ogg being heard just before Kris wakes up in the Dark World for the first time, "The song from the sea" that Onion-San mentions that seems to be referring to Don't Forget, Even jumping back to Gaster's little anomalous corner of Undertale-based mysteries, The Mystery Man, who by all means surely must be Gaster, is found specifically in Waterfall despite what you'd expect given Gaster was the royal scientist and the royal labs were located in Hotland, suggesting a connection between the element of water and Gaster and/or darkness. Another bit of element-symbolism that feels especially loaded in implications to me is one of Jevil's final lines, "Hell's Roar Bubbles from the depths." We all know Ralsei's prophecy talks about us needing to banish the Angel's Heaven, but that would only make logical sense if the balance of light and dark was being tipped in favor of light, which is the opposite of what's going on during the current story of Deltarune. Ralsei then later refers to the incoming calamity caused by dark fountains as "The Roaring," which combined with Jevil's reference to "Hell's Roar" seems to suggest that Hell's Roar is the shadow alternative to Angel's Heaven. The fact that he describes it as bubbling shows that the "depths" he's referring to are the depths of the ocean, generally the mental image this sentence seems to meant to convey is a volcanic vent opened at the bottom of the ocean causing its superheated gasses(or simply heating up the water to the point where it becomes a gas) to bubble to the surface. This supports the idea that the ocean is used to represent the Dark World because its from the creation of the Dark Fountains and thus the Dark Worlds that the "Roaring Hell" comes forth. Plus the entire reason the Ocean is associated with darkness is because deep in the ocean light cannot penetrate the water, leading to a large portion of the ocean being dark and unknown. And Jevil specifically refers to the depths of the ocean, strengthening that association. Another thing this element symbolism brings up however is the concept of Hell, which is constantly associated with fire in media, which Jevil's description supports thanks to the whole bubbling thing. Which also brings a new meaning to all of Noelle's symbolism. Noelle has the element of Ice and has a ton of Angel imagery surrounding her. (I think they're even directly connected to each-other given the common term "Snow-Angel.") Ice is cold and Fire is hot so it makes sense for them to be on opposite "teams" so to speak, but there's an interesting difference to be pointed out that Angels refer to the residents of Heaven, not Heaven itself, while Hell refers to the place, rather than its residents which would be Demons. (This is backed up by the fact that Noelle is, although prominent in the symbolism and prophecy of Deltarune's Storyline, simply a resident of the Light world. A relatively normal Lightner.) This makes me figure that Fire is actually opposite to something else and that there are separate elements for Heaven and Demons. The opposite of Water, when referring to the ocean in the context of location, is typically thought to be Earth. There are water-dwelling creatures and there are terrestrial creatures. And this notion is backed up by Ralsei's description of The calamity in his first prophecy, which says that the ground will crack open, suggesting that it plays a similar but opposite role in the emergence of the Angel's Heaven as the Ocean does to the emergence of Hell's Roar as described by Jevil. Plus, we generally think of the world we live in as "Earth," a name that is synonymous with the terrestrial ground that we stand on. Thus allowing it to act as a contrast to any alternate worlds like the Dark World. Jevil's reference to Hell's Roar comes in at about the same place where he references the shadow of the Knights hand, and there's significant enough parallelism between Anti-Kris(Who is implied to be The Knight) and Chara to support the idea of The Knight being associated with Demonhood. And The Knight/Anti-Kris are always being associated with their Knife, which could simply connect to the "Blade" element established by Rudinn Ranger, but it could also, elementally speaking, represent the element of "Metal." As most knives are forged with Metal. The stronger reason why I believe Metal to be a part of this fantasy elemental setup we have going on here is the fact that Ice and Ocean are, when you get down to it, technically the same thing just in different states. They're both H2O but one is solid and the other is liquid. And if you were looking for something that has a similar relationship but to earth, my first guess would be Metal. Both Earth and Metal are essentialy minerals, but Metal is a more refined and specific form, making Metal and Earth different "States" of each-other just like Ice and Water are different states of each-other. This especially makes sense because in order for a metal to become the form in which it is used as a metal it needs to be made hot, drawing a parallel between the connection of Metal(Demons) and Fire(Hell) very similar but opposite to the connection between Ice(Angels) and the Opposite of Fire which we could assume to be cold.(Heaven) (What's especially interesting is the fact that this would imply that Heaven is applying its coldness to Hell's Water in order to make Angels and vise-versa which sounds a lot like what I would describe as "Divine Hypocrisy" which is a very thematically interesting concept.) This means that as far as a Typical-Fantasy-RPG style of elemental system, there should be 6 basic elements, 3 aligned with light, and 3 aligned with shadow. The Dark World is Ocean, Demons are Metal/Blade, and Hell is Fire. The Light World is Earth, Angels are Ice, so what is the element tied to Heaven? Answering this. . . is actually a confusing mess, pretty much solely thanks to the Sky Mantle. The Sky Mantle's stats list it as giving resistance to "Holy/Elec," which based on everything we've established thus far _would_ make perfect sense, as its a religious-based element treated as synonymous with a typical-fantasy element. . . *If it weren't for the fact that the Sky Mantle's own NAME makes it inherently associated with a 3RD element: Sky.* What makes this even more confusing is the fact that we can be pretty much sure that Electric isn't the kind of synonymic combo-element that Ocean, Ice, Fire, and Blade seem to be by the fact that Ambulance has Elec but not Holy. Plus it wouldn't make sense for Holy and Elec to both be labeled when Ice is just Ice. But then there's the fact that Berdly references his seemingly electricity based Halberd as "Holy," which is one of two places in the canonically accessible game so far that the term "holy" is ever actually referenced, the other being the song that plays when we seal Dark Fountains. (Also side note: I'd like to point out that Ambulance has + sign imagery, not Cross imagery. The Christian Cross has the bottom end of the shape being longer than the others. + signs are often associated with hospitals and health, especially in video games, hence Ambulance being a doctor.) But despite this ridiculous self-contradictory confusion, All of these possible elements could easily be connected together, along with another very common fantasy element that would fit here, Wind. Lightning comes from the Sky and is sometimes associated as coming from a place of divinity, a la Zeus or Thor. Heaven is often associated as being high up in the Sky, often depicted as literally taking place in clouds. Wind is much more prevalent high up in the Sky. And both the affect of wind on an object and the low air pressure of high altitudes are cold, making sense of the association between Ice and Angels. Its also worth noting that while Fire and Ice are often paired together as opposites due to their association with heat and cold, ice is a physical thing while fire is not. Fire is more of a _force._ Scientifically speaking its classified as a plasma. Wind is also a force, and Lightning is force as well as being scientifically classified as a plasma although it is definitely not cold.) I can't help but also notice that the word "Holy" doesn't really refer to a thing or a force, it's rather an attribute, much like "Cold" in the context it was used 2 paragraphs ago. Which would make it weird to have Holy as an element while keeping cold as an attribute that is inherent to Ice, Wind, or Sky. Unless that's the entire point, and, much like how Berdly used the word, putting Holy/ in front of an element specifies that it is a Holy variation of that element. "Holy/Elec" being an abbreviation of "Holy Thunder!" Which would very directly connect to Zeus or Thor. Meaning that Thunder isn't actually connected to Heaven at all, leaving Wind as the most likely element to represent it. Like I said, the moment we got into the Heaven side of this coin things got really complicated really fast.
Spamton being a cat makes sense a bit, is probably because his personality and actions are close or resemble that of a cat. They like their independence and FREEDOM, and like doing stuff on their own, but a lot of cats still RELY on a person to keep them alive. (Quite literally Spamton’s story) Cats are playful and sociable, but can also be secluded and unfriendly. They can be social with humans, or very aggressive. (And this ties into experience and their fears) Cats can also be very FEARFUL. They flip-flop all of the time, and that’s exactly what Spamton does. He flips. He can either be the social, fun, business man, or he is the fearful individual that will do anything for freedom and independence (and is very aggressive towards Kris, the human). A lot of personality traits of cats are secluded in mystery of why they are the way they are. I think this fits Spamton. Cats have an order to their chaos.
@@Estra_Estra I know Spamton isn’t literally a cat. I’m just providing an explanation to why he holds the element. Its more of symbolic reason it seems. Cat like traits without being a cat. (plus i’m not typing out Spamton NEO every time)
@@jackietheclown Oh I thought you just weren't making the distinction whatsoever, like, as if he always had the element. But well, even then I'd say it doesn't work too great for me when the requirement for NEO makes it seem like the source of the element doesn't even come from his general attributes in the first place, despite the items. Maybe... it's because he didn't consider himself complete in his weaker body, so he was only... 55% cat or something??? I am not Googling "how much cat until you're cat" today. Also yeah I know you weren't saying he's _actually_ a cat, if anything it was me who made it seem like Spamton NEO literally was one which... would crumble my world if so. But anyhow, I didn't mean that either... Well okay, he's definitely not... _totally_ a cat, anyway. I hope. And pray. ...Hmm, this one seems like a pretty big stretch to me, but, y'know how people have pointed out how the yarn balls and whip match with the strings, but that it ain't perfect since other attacks still have their damage reduced? So like, maybe it's a bit of a weird joke with cats always being bound to try to play with strings, and so Spamton being inherently attached to those makes him a cat in that way? Fits with unrelated Tasque attacks still being blocked while nonetheless tying it (haha) to him, but uh, bit hard to see that being put into the game by someone who'd then go "yeahh I'm sure people'll figure it out" with how roundabout it is.
I think the Blade element is like Ice in that it is tied to a personality trait. Ice is introverted, Blade is extroverted. The Rudinn Rangers are much more egotistical and have much more of a will than regular rudinn. Also, the Knight, frequently tied to blades, makes fountains, and that requires super intense will. It makes too much sense not to be the case.
This reminds me a lot of another similarly symbolic theory I've come to have recently, that honestly I'd love if you could make a video and contribute some input about. I think there is a significant amount of color-based symbolism going on in Deltarune, especially in regards to Kris. Of course there's the basic stuff like Susie being Purple and Noelle being Yellow, but I mean more like colors being used to tell a story than that simple association. And it all starts with their clothes. We already know that Kris wants to be more like their family, right? The fake horns and "How to do Magic" book give us enough to determine that. They're also very often portrayed as being in their brother Asriel's shadow. In this context, the fact that they dress up in the same type of clothes that we know to be associated with Asriel thanks to Undertale _says a lot._ Kris is seemingly the alternate universe counterpart to Frisk. They have the same skin tone, same hair color, same flirtateous nature at times, they even have a slightly different version of Frisk's name just like Susie in comparison to Undertale's Suzy. But despite this, they don't wear the colors that we're used to seeing Frisk wear. Instead of wearing Blues and Pinks, they were Greens and Yellows. The colors heavily associated with Asriel. _EXCEPT for when they're in the Dark World._ The Dark World is generally framed as a place where Kris is free to be themselves and a place where they're generally happier. The outfit they wear is mystically tailored to their personality and preferences, as shown by what Susie and Noelle end up looking like, and when interacting with the closet in their Room that Ralsei made they say "You could wear anything you want," but don't actually change what they're wearing, as if what they're wearing suits them perfectly. So, in a place where Kris is happy and free to be themselves, they proudly wear an outfit of Blue and Pink, but in the Light World, where they're ostracized for being human and are constantly living in their brother's shadow, they wear Green and Yellow, the colors that Asriel used to wear. It's actually really sad when you think about it. Kris doesn't seem to like themselves and wish they were a monster instead of a human. More like Asriel and less like themself. Being in the Dark World with Susie, Ralsei, Noelle, and others is the only place they feel free enough, or perhaps even _safe_ enough to be themselves. And I'd bet dollars to donuts that this color-symbolism is going to go further in the future. The next chapter is going to involve Toriel being in the Dark World alongside Kris and Susie. I predict that, with Toriel being part of the problem, Kris is going to revert back to their green and yellow color-scheme for the duration of Chapter 3. Which would be the first time this color symbolism would be made explicitly clear. Plus, my theories propose that Gaster is taking control of Kris during the epilogue segments where the Soul is taken out of their body. (The "Anti-Kris" or rather, The Knight.) And Gaster is constantly associated with _a complete lack of color._ So I predict that when shit goes down and we eventually have to fight The Knight, Kris isn't going to be Green and Yellow, nor Blue and Pink, but rather _Blank and white._ A visual metaphor for Kris's depression being taken advantage of and made worse by someone who is taking advantage of them.
This started with guesswork, and still pulled out several good ideas that tie into the story! The system as a whole may not mean much (yet), but I'd be surprised if none of these points become a bigger pattern somehow. Speaking of which, you know about the Ch1 spores thing, right?
Since the SpamtonSweepstakes Q&A, I'm guessing puppet/cat are paired as a sort of general "Property" class element, not unlike how holy/electric are a sort of "Sky Magic" class element. After all, both puppets and cats have owners, and cat could be later extended to a Pet or Animal element.
18:46 Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there a leaked item called the shadow mantle? What could be the case regarding that is that you are required to give shadow crystals to Seam in order to craft the shadow mantle and fight the secret boss. It would make sense if Toby wants players to have to defeat the other two secret bosses, before progressing to the third.
This is so interesting, and I enjoyed your editing. It’s very good. And seems like it is getting better. On topic of the elements, I really like how some of Deltarune elements are not typical. We have freaking Dust, Rude, mouse, chaos, and Cat elements! Very silly, but a nice change.
HOW HAVE I NEVER WATCHED A VIDEO FROM YOUR CHANNEL BEFORE? This is beyond excellent! The research, scripting, editing, and everything is phenomenal, and you even programmed the TTS to annunciate since you use it as the primary script deliverer! How in the hell do you have so few subscribers for this quality???
well then queen would have to be cat/mouse, the swatchlings would have to be cat, virovirokun, popup and ambyu-lance would be cat and werewire would be mouse
I think it's safer to speculate that Monster Lightners can have two elements that make up a new one, like Berdly with Holy Electric making up Sky element, Susie likely has a combination of Chaos and another elements that create the Rude Element, my favorite candidate its Cat just for Susie being referred by alphys as the cat that drinks the dumpster milk, int he case of Noelle on why she is pure ice, i think that it has to do with her not being strong/resolute enough in chapter two, and i think that now that she has a stronger resolve she can gain a secondary element depending on the Route chosen.
Great video, but I feel like your analysis of the electric/holy element was from a limited perspective. You mentioned at 8:34 how Chrono Trigger has Holy and Electric as the same element, but from an eastern perspective, those aren't opposites. From what I understand, East Asian mythology is polytheistic, and rather than worshipping one of many gods, they worshipped heaven as a whole. They also believed in the idea of lightning as a power reserved for the gods, hence its inclusion. For an example outside of RPGs, in Dragon Ball(which is super mythologically inspired), Tien's name literally translates to 'heaven' in Chinese, and he is the first character to be able to fly. His signature move also creates an electric aura around his hands. Akira Toriyama, Dragon Ball's author, was the lead character designer on Chrono Trigger, and I have the feeling that they wouldn't have brought him on if his style and mythological influence wouldn't fit. Basically, I think the element typings will probably be similar ones rather than opposites. (Sorry if this was hard to read btw, I have the feeling its a little wordy)
y’know, holy/electric are exactly the types of words you could probably describe asriel dreemurr, with him using various stars and bolts of lightning in his fight it’d make sense if element 1 was catered to reference him, perhaps other elements may link back to other undertale characters, maybe even some from deltarune too
To support the snowdrakes mom thing actually If the number 55 is associated with them it could be on purpose since we do see everyman a few times like in the Jevil fight, in the alleyway where Alphys is even in the battle with queen for one of her attacks Maybe its a hint of some sort that isn't fully clear but maybe the almagamates have a deeper part in this madness too? If they didn't then it surely is confusing why everyman seems to tend to pop up here and there in some unique places Might be able to actually help find connections in a way too
Chaos fits a bit less than rude does. We don’t have enough proof to guess anything about this, but we can try our best! Everyday gets better when HalfBreadChaos posts, but as always, I’d like to make sure you aren’t draining the life from yourself to entertain ideas. Keep it up, can’t wait to see what you think of next.
We now know why Spamptop is a Cat. He was originally a specil egg in ,,Cat Petters 2" Noelle got. He became a glitch and didn't hatch,then left da game and ended in the computer in the Labrarby, then sent Noelle spam emails. It's possible Gaster literally created Spamptop and send him to Noelles game. Edit: Also Noelle is kinda his mom, which means that in SnowGrave his mom kills him....
I think the elements go in pairs of the same thing, like chaos and order because chaos is an order that we don't understand, or holy and electric because deities (idk if I spelled it right) are made out of energy
im glad we got more answers about elements eventually lol. its a weird, barely acknowledged bit of the game that plagued me for a hot minute- anyway, this is probably my 3rd time watching this video- bread's videos don't really get old. nice work, keep this shit up 😁
I’m guess that elements 0 and 10 are nightmares and dreams respectively. Or perhaps even HOPES AND DREAMS. Hope can pierce through every notion of doubt. People seek escapism via dreams.
The lack of people being angry that the FAQ is weeks late, it reminds you of how kind and patient your viewers are. This fills you with Determination!
Q: Why do you think Chara is 9? Isn't 9 just the highest number?
A: At the risk of potentially rehashing future material, there's a few things wrong with this assumption.
First, consider Mettaton. Mettaton's Defense is supposed to be so high, he's completely invulnerable. Is his defense 999? nope. It's 255. In a game-sense 255 is the highest a number can be (because computers) but in base 10, 9 is the highest a single digit can be.
Chara is less the idea of being "the most powerful thing in the game" and more the idea of min/maxing. This idea of using the minimal resources to get the maximum results. Consider the alarm clock dialogue: undertale.com/alarmclock/flowey/
Here Toriel tells us that Chara used to fill their glass as close to the top as possible, no matter how thirsty they were, because "it was the most efficient way to fill the glass." Reflecting this concept of min/max (maximum water while minimizing cups).
Of course there are other little flavor things, hinting that Chara is associated with 9. The locket and real knife (chara's own items) give 99 as stats. The two times Chara attacks without the player (sans and asgore) they do 9999999 and 9999999999 damage, When you Fight Asgore (neutral route), and try to TALK to him, the dialogue changes every time, until you reach 4, and then it starts repeating.
But what's odd here is... on TALK number 9, suddenly the dialogue says "All you can do is FIGHT. " before returning to the default message from 10 onward. Say what you will about Chara before they died, but within the bounds of the gameplay, Chara only shows up in the genocide run, only when you FIGHT *everyone*. In their current form, Chara is associated with FIGHTing to become a strong as possible, to max out every stat, until you have reached the Absolute.
That doesn't mean every single 9 in the game is secretly Chara, any more than every Fire using enemy is secretly a Boss Monster. Just that 9 is a number strongly associated with Chara.
Q: Wait Spamton is a CAT? How do you figure?
A: I did a whole video on this already so rather than rehash it here, how about I just...just sorta: ruclips.net/video/GGKtlEdEBRM/видео.html
Q: Why is there a deadbody next to your desk?
A: Eheh I forgot how weird this might be to new viewers, that "robot" made it's debut in this video here: ruclips.net/video/16KEmGUf_O8/видео.html
Q: Cool... staff? That is a staff right? 3:08
A: Aww.. it's supposed to be a broom. Time to update the sprite!
Q: "Omega Ice-E Neo?! What?!"
A: Uhhhh that's a reference to this one; ruclips.net/video/ftQNVAY6KeU/видео.html
I just realized this FAQ is more like a reference catalogue, oops!
Q: 1:51 Are those fingers supposed to be pointing at something or....?
A: A...aw..... This was my first time using the "Rich Text" tool to animate the text instead of the "Simple Text" tool. Apparently the preview is extremely inaccurate and I failed to catch that in edit. Oops!
Q: Is that why all the other text is so weirdly spaced?
A: Yeah. ):
Q: Why don't you just look at the enemy data, or the bullet data for info on the Elements?
A: As of time of writing this, the Element system is still in the very early stages of implementation, and thus there is *very very little* code to find. Only Elements 6 and 0 have bullet data, and only elements 1, 7, and 6 have Armor data.
None of the "enemies" actually have Element data (at least not directly tied to them). Instead the recruit data lists their "elements" as strings. That is to say... the Recruit Data labels the enemies but those labels aren't enforced (yet). So for now that data has to be used as a lens for what Toby intends, rather than a law.
Think of this video as me extrapolating as hard as possible with what (very little) information we *do* have.
Q: Really? You think Papyrus is related to 2 *purely* because of his Check Data?
A: I didn't wanna go into it (because I didn't want be too tin-foil-hat about it). But there are other associations between Papyrus and the number 2. When the dog salad heals for 2HP it says "Oh! There are bones!" There's the fact that he's the 2nd boss, the fact he has 2 Blue Attacks (turning your SOUL blue, and the blue bones), the fact that there's 2 ways to get past him (the fight itself and just losing to him repeatedly), the fact he is the 2nd brother (Sans is older) when you reach the point where you can spare him, his defense = HP * -2
Are these a stretch? Yes! Yes they are. They *super* are. But it's still pretty fun to think about. (sans has quite a few too, this could be a video unto itself if I'm not careful).
Q: Skymantle? Mouse Token? What are you talking about? Where is this coming from?
A: The game has data for armor that isn't currently obtainable. It's possible Toby may never use them, but the "pink bow" was previously an unobtainable piece of armor... until Chapter 2 dropped, so for now, I don't see any harm in discussing them, especially since they have so much information relating to the Elements.
If you want to hack them into your save, you need only change the Item ID of one of your armors to 18 (skymantle) or 6 (mouse token). Or you can plug your save-file into Spamton's save editor.
I wouldn't be surprised if Toby never uses the Mouse Token (even though it's practically begging to be the treasure chest at the end of the cheese maze) but I *would* be surprised if the Skymantle doesn't make an appearance, given the Shadow-Mantle dialogue from Seam.
Q: Where did you get the sprites for those?
A: I just made them, the Skymantle and Mouse Token don't' have sprites.
Q: And... how did you get Jevil as a recruit?
A: Spamton Save Editor.
saveeditor.spamton.com/deltarune2
Q: There's so much fun stuff in the code! I wanna look in there too! How can I get started?
A: I'd get the Modtools from Underminer, found here: www.reddit.com/r/Underminers/comments/bcztob/new_underminers_discord_server/
Q: What's with all the Japanese?
A: I... uh... look I'll stop looking in the Japanese localization when Toby stops hiding stuff there. >:[
Q: You said Toby mentioned "Chaos" in the Deltarune stream but uhhh that stream is 4 hours long, can I have a timestamp?
A: Yep! ruclips.net/video/rksOYId-cNA/видео.html
If that didn't work it's 2 hours and 53 minutes in.
Q: Why are you asking if Papyrus is red or orange?
A: I'm referring to the shadow in this video: ruclips.net/video/j50V8Isevyo/видео.html
Q: Wait.. what if... Spamton is being held up by CAT6 cables?! (Theory proposed by Inter Dimensional Goober)
A: Aw... I wish I'd thought of that, that's super clever!
Q: Why is Element 7 MOUSE?
A: I... I honestly have no idea. D: Sorry.
Q: Shouldn't MIKE be Element 7 because Dust Bunnies (look for couches to hide under?)
A: Aw... that's super clever I wish I'd thought of that. D:
i am so intrested in your work but could you find ot the lore about the state called fallen down when a monster is about to turn to dust basically paralization
also i always love the howdy at the start
Spamton is clearly a cat because he’s being held up by CAT6 cables. (I’m not joking, they’re real green internet cables)
Yay faq!
Okay wait some stuff im interested in and you might be too..
The song might be singed by the vessel we created since we created it in our head. Thats pretty logical
The Heaven is the biggest tier out of all the tiers (Card world is tier 1 and like that bla bla bla) since i think a person has bringed a nice theory that said: "The heavens might be the Level where we, players are controlling the characters" and we can say that Krises soul is probably a Fallen Angel that is trying to get it revenge.
Spamton is clearly a cat because he’s being held up by CAT6 cables. (I’m not joking, they’re real green internet cables)
YO! I that would be insanely cool to reference
So you are telling me it was all a pun? And Toby purposely mad element 6 cat for this pun? This kind of stuff makes me afraid icee is real now...
...holy shi-
Im just going to exit the building now
Cat6 isn't always green. You can get them in black or grey.
Otherwise, that works out too well to be a coincidence.
Wait, is element 10 element TEM, and rated TEM out of TEM in terms of defense?
omfg
r/angryupvote
Mind size: Mega
you go into store, and you get TEM OUTTA TEM
When you collect all the eggs?
8:15: i saw a theory a while back that the reason jevil's and spamton's arenas don't seem to be properly placed on the map is because the physical objects representing them are located in dark, hard to reach areas irl. jevil would be a joker card under the cabinet that corresponds to card castle irl while spamton would be a deleted file, as would mettaton's drawing (or maybe it'd be in the trash or have fallen under the desk), and the closet that's big enough to fit a person in would represent the castle basement and the place where mettaton neo's body is rotting away
spamton is a bunch of printed spam e-mails that are on the trash can
They're also seemingly at the lower "edge" of the dark world, perhaps the integrity of a dark world diminishes near the edges so weird spatial phenomena happen
always thought of the closet as a mansion and the fact that it could fit a person was because the giant queen robot
@@huvjh6594 that’s an interesting idea. I never really stopped to think about the mansion. Maybe the acid river is like a box of spare batteries? We’ve got a box like that in our house and I could see a public space like a computer lab having one too, an assortment of working and empty batteries one must fish through when a device runs low. But then again most of the devices in the lab are wired, so maybe that wouldn’t be as needed. Who knows, I’m just throwing stuff out here.
Or, and now I don’t have evidence for this since I just thought of it, if Queen is sometimes theorized to be one of the computers, and there’s personalized rooms for everyone, what if the mansion is a computer tower? It’d have the joke of being, well, a tower, and it’d kinda work? Ehh maybe not as much. Oh, maybe the reason it’s a city is because all the buildings are computer towers? I think that makes more sense.
Personally I always had a darker interpretation of the specificity of the closet being large enough for a person… I mean, wouldn’t Kris/the player forcing their hand want to hide the evidence of Snowgrave? A closet isn’t a great place but it buys time before people find out.
@@EndertheDragon0922 the thing is the closest tells you it's big enough to hide in no matter what route you take, I saw a theory that the closest is where the knight was hiding before they made the dark fountain.
I really find the element system fascinating and see it as an extra tool for toby to use for possible story telling
Toby is extremely good at tying gameplay with narration. It just adds value to his games which is awesome!!!
@@thirdwheel9938 Seriously, Spamton cat was just the beginning, something crazy is gonna be explained with the element explanation. That or a really hard boss fight.
To me, Ralsei's cut duologue saying that Noelle is good at magic despite never using it before, feels like evidence that she HAS used it before. Although the "Maybe she'll make you a popsicle," is DEFINITELY snowgrave foreshadowing
The train of thought of Noelle having previously used magic might have to do with Catti's dialogue showing us that she, along with Kris and Noelle have dabbled in the occult.
"Kris... you and I... Studied occult. Together...Incantation for silence... Find it. Tell me."
"Taught her... Protection spells. Showed her... occult findings."
It definitely feels like a detail a lot of people overlook and I'm curious to see how it affects the Dark World in later chapters, if at all. Even if magic doesn't actually work in the Light World, it doesn't seem to farfetched to think any "spells" Catti might have taught to Kris and Noelle might in the Dark World. There's also Kris' "how 2 use magic" search in Queen's Mansion, their desire to use magic definitely also feels like major foreshadowing for something in the future.
One thing's for sure, she definitely made Berdely a Popsicle!
No she plays a videogame with magic with her dad. Although the catty dialogue is an intriguing find, in the hospital she speaks with her dad about finally getting to the ice dragon. In the snowgrave route, Noelle's dialogue changes as she suggests using ice elemental attacks because it does more base damage compared to the fire attacks with elemental weakness bonus. Her dad also said that she had played the game with him for years. About the foreshadowing with Kris, he was raised in a monster family. He had asked Toriel when his horns were going to grow when he was little, remember? There is a possibility this is another instance of a young Kris not understanding human characteristics and abilities from monster ones. But in contribution to your theory, in Kris's stats it does show he has a very small amount of magic when wearing certain armor. Also, could this be the reason he can perform the snowgrave spamton fight action "X-Slash"?
There is speculation that she has used snowgrave in undertale before. We know from the alarm clock Dialogue that she and her family definitely exist in undertale. Sans has specifically referenced her and a big snow Strom together in the Casino.
I would absolutely love seeing Toby make more intensive battle mechanics that actually require the player to use Elements to their advantage, with most secret bosses basically requiring item prep from this point onwards. Chapter one introduced us to how Deltarune's combat works, and to a lesser extent its items. Chapter two introduced us to Elements and basic mechanics relating to them through the Castle Town and various dialogue in menus. It would make a ton of sense if chapter three tied these two aspects together more fully, with the current mechanics we have just being a sort of experienced player tactic to make fights they've been through before easier on repeat playthroughs.
The elements being in chapter 3 or 4 does also seem to align with how battle mechanics are introduced. Chapter 1 introduced the main combat mechanics and gave hints towards performing actions on the same turn (for example act + spare). Chapter 2 outright tells you that it's possible and gives hints towards the element system. So yeah, the more you think about this, the more sense it makes for us to get more element stuff within the next chapters
@@WhoStoleKirya73 тоже залипаешь на эти видео?
i wouldnt like that it would just be "sorrry buy other itme lol" for no reason
But like, i don't know a single person who actually noticed and used the element system, everyone just used the items with higher stats
@@8ra1nbreak maybe that's because it hasn't been properly introduced yet?
Here's a thought. You know how Ice seems to be connected to being detached and distant? Well, when fighting Swatchlings, Susie and Ralsei can each change the colour of the enemy by half the amount Kris can.
Susie has the Half-Warm ACT, in which she talks about things that are hot. Ralsei however gets Half-Cold, where he talks about cold things.
And what trait does Ralsei seem to show off numerous times?
Emotional detachment. He acts as though nothing is wrong after Sapmtong NEO, tries lamely to brush off people insulting him, and shuts down entirely while explaining The Roaring.
Hell, in Chapter 1, his dialogue portraits have very little diversity to the emotions they convey, especially compared to Susie, even before she opens up. And what does Ralsei talk about in Chapter 2, where his faceset is like, 4 times as diverse?
"I even hid my face so you wouldn't see..."
Ralsei may also have the Ice element, as opposed to fire like you would expect from his resemblance to the Dreemurr family. It would fit with his character, explain his connections to Noelle, and maybe even gameplay wise substitute a Snowgrave Noelle later down the line. Like, instead of Noelle using Snowgrave to beat a strong boss, it'd be Ralsei who does it. Maybe the use of the spell removes whoever used it from the party for a while. On a normal route, Ralsei is out of the party and Noelle takes his place as the support, whereas on a Snowgrave route, Ralsei stays in your party.
Ralsei also talks how he's lonely.
But i guess the lonelyness itself doesn't mean much as there are multiple characters that are lonely in a way.
Spamton being left to rot in a dumpster, Jevil locked -in- er- outside a cell,
And then there's Asgore, Berdly, Noelle, Kris and Susie who also have been/are lonely to an extend.
Now that i think about it, that's quite a lot of lonely characters. And that's not even "unnatural" as we all suffer from this in our own ways too. It's just that we uncovered a layer that in some other media wouldn't be covered or be completly overlooked. Deltarune gives us a lot hints at the personalities of its characters. Reminds me of how Toby Fox doesn't make merch of the lightners cause lightners are supposed to be like "acctual humans" rather than objects. So yeah, he nails that i guess.
if susie has a warmify act. is she associated to element fire ? rude buster sprite does seem that of inflammable. and i believe her mane ax was forged from a dragon welp ?. she does act all tough and strong and weirdly enough she quotes how dark burger is cooked to perfection
@@wolfenden9805 yes actually! She talks about flames a lot
Wow, a heart. You spoil me, Bread
I know this got a heart, can it get pinned?
I would love to believe Toby watches this stuff and is sitting here like “man these guys are way over complicating everything” great video tho! It’s very interesting
Well he does keep good tabs on what the fandom is up to. I like to think he watches fan theories so he can figure out how to throw curve balls. It would be kinda boring if an chapter came out and completely adhered to a popular theory without any surprises.
@@KateYagi I remember he did actually seem to take some inspiration from a Deltarune fancomic, and had Chapter 2 have some similarities to it! I don't remember the name, I just know it was one where the protagonists kept meeting duplicate Ralsei with the letters in their name re-ordered and color swapped.
@@plant7371 OHHHH I SAW THAT
it was actually really cool like how do you get so bored that you make that masterpiece
(you get better ideas when you're bored and you do stuff you want to do better)
@@plant7371 which ideas? Because the dark world stuff was already stated in chapter 1, or hinted at
@plant7371 paper trail?
All chaos is order that hasnt been understood yet. Thats beautiful. It has a similar vibe to "magic is science that hasnt been written down yet"
It both is and isn't true. Because quantum physics has plenty of things that are truly random. But the inevitable increasing if randomness, entropy, will eventually become so random that it is near perfectly ordered, with energy states equalized across the universe.
@@chaotixthefoxinfact "luck" also would be a term that both wrong and correct
One hand. Nothing is random you just dont know the outcome, everything in universe is happening with smth else that isnt random. For example if you got rolled over by a rock thats not really random because that rock was pushed so, luck doesnt exists its just a outcome havent calculated or aware of yet
I have to quickly mention a theory that i came up with recently. It’s not related to the element system, but i just wanted to throw it out there:
The great door. Most likely, it is the connecting door between the unused classroom and the supply closet. That would explain why lancer was able to enter castle town: if the great door (the door in the light world) was open, someone from the card kingdom (the classroom) could travel to castle town (the closet). Now, ralsei is suprised that the door is open. That implies that it usually isn’t. It also implies that you can’t open it from within the dark world. And we can also guess that the great door opens when the door in the light world opens, that would make the most sense. That means that the light world door was opened just recently. That in turn means that the classroom dark world *must be a recent creation.* If there’s a dark fountain in a place, you can’t interact with the light world there; entering the place would just bring you into the dark world. That means that someone (the knight) recently went to the classroom, opened up the closet door, and then made a fountain.
As i was typing this out, i remembered that the classroom fountain being a recent thing was literally mentioned in game, when ralsei tells you the prophecy, so the impact of my theory just lessened dramatically. Still, i just wanted to put it out there that it was probably the knight that opened the great door
I just remembered that at the end of chapter 2 kris opens the door of their house before making the fountain
But he’s not the roaring knight, he’s just a knight.
ralsei does say "recently a new fountain appeared on the horizon" in the legend so it does add up
Well that still gives even more confirmation that the knight is a lightner
At least it makes Ralsei less suspicious
The most interesting thing is there is implications that Kris knows magic due to the Blade element.
Kris somehow summoning a knife/keeping it hidden. Kris somehow removing a Soul from their body. The emphasis on Kris not using magic can be a trick to bait and switch people. Ralsei being suspicious so no one thinks anything of Kris and knows about the Soul.
We don't know something about Kris and not in the way people are thinking.
If the Dark World is the inverse of the Light World then Monsters without magic get magic.
Then Kris not having Magic in the Dark Would could very well be a major plot point and explain how Kris removes their Soul.
It would also explain how Noelle and Berdly got into the Dark World after setting up their study supplies.
Sleep Magic.
This means the Knight is... well anyone who could have Sleep Magic.
Or not.
i mean, doesnt kris have a few acts that could be considered "magic"?
iirc, he has the thing in the king fight that buffs defense... somehow, and the spamton neo fight gives him an extra attack in the act menu which is where other characters have their spells
Actually yeah, didn’t Catty or Catti (I can’t remember which sister) say in the overworld that she taught Kris magic? Like, occult magic?
@@ChestersonJack she did
@@ChestersonJack and there a search result in queen's mansion about kris learning how to use magic
You shouldn't use they to refer to a single person
Now that I think about it, Berdly could easily be Element 2. The element that protects from Element 2 is the Sky Mantle. Berdly is a bird and birds fly in the sky. His relation with Queen might also be the reason for Elec (as in Electric).
(ngl sounds like a silly theory)
He also uses wind magic, which in FF, is the counter to thunder.
Skymantle is Element 1.
My pneumonic for that is that only a real [BIG SHOT] would have the Number 1 rated armor to protect against H E A V E N.
@@HalfBreadChaos i wish that quote was a purchase-able tshirt
My best guess with the rude, chaos, and order thing is that it could kinda work like how bending works within “The Last Avatar” with there being branches in a major element. For an example: Electric could be the branch of Holy or both being a branch of a sky element. They could all be protected by the same amor of the the element they branch off of but they can also have an amour for a branch. So Rude can be a branch of Chaos.
"The Last Avatar"? Did you perhaps mean "Avatar: The Last Airbender"? Genuine question btw, I'm not entirely sure.
@@GearTech147 Yes, he meant that
Also, yeah. It's possible that electric and holy are just branches of sky. But, rude being a branch of chaos doesn't really work out. Maybe rude, chaos and order are branches of something else? Something much bigger? After all, chaos and order are heavy hitters, they're no small elements and rude might too be a major element. So, rude, chaos and order might be branches of some godlike element that is present everywhere
@@GearTech147 Yeah that I didn’t remember the name.
@@maxmanchik I want to explain my reasoning for thinking Rude beings a branch of a chaos. As Rude is heavily tied to Susie I would assume that most things with the Rude element would be very rude or violent, and being violent is usually against the rules so it opposes order is some capacity and what also opposes order in some way Chaos. So in my mind it would be either Chaos is a branch of Rude or Rude is a branch of Chaos. And I don’t think a secret boss would have a branch element so I w key with the second one.
Personally, I think Rude is the in between of Order and Chaos. Think about it, the opposites of Order's attributes match up with Susie perfectly, but she doesn't match up with unmitigated insanity of the only Chaos user we know, Jevil. Rude therefore is a half and half of Order and Chaos. Susie is not so ordered that she obeys without question, but she's also not so chaotic that everything she does is up to chance. She does what she wants to do, but she always does it for a reason.
A hybrid element, perhaps?
About element 9, it could be defense against “destructive” elements, which constantly appear in RPGs as the trio of Fire Frost and Thunder. it is also common for there to be items that protect against all three.
Edit: he said element 1 is electric/holy, so it’s not natural elements nor divine.
I also just noticed,
Along with the standard natural trinity (fire/frost/thunder), we also have the potential for the metaphysical trinity (holy/occult/spirit) given our soul, if Catty’s dialogue has any merit.
I think Ambyu-Lance has a cross on it to represent the medical cross that is often symbolic of hospitals
Spamton could have the same element as the cats because the cats seem to have some order to them with the task manager. Spamton is very chaotic, but he represents spam mail and spam ads. Even thought those seem chaotic, they do have order in them through how ads and spam mail can be targeted to specific users. The targeting of spam ads and spam mail could be his order aspect.
There's also another theory, being that the cables of Spamton NEO are CAT6 green cables
Spamton seems very targeted on Kris' need for control too, I think that wa sa big aspect in him devising strategies (depending on route) to gain that heaven piercing workout ready body.
And if that's the case, it's not a coincidence why Spamton popped out of a rrash can just to deal with Kris. As we know, they both have some similarities and suffer from the same problem aka being under someone's control.
I've also seen someone say that Spamton having the "order" element is a pun.
My name is George but I'm gaster nobody knows
I swear there's going to be a new element type pairing in Chapter 3: "Toby" and "Temmie"
Element 10 confirmed
Another small detail that slightly proves this theory: when kris spins, (in the Jevil fight) the description for the act is “random chaos”, even though it’s soothing Jevil and is order more than chaos
got homestuck jumpscared 8:32 but it was worth it bc i like that version of the aspect wheel. youre like the only person ive seen who's acknowledged that opposite aspects are more connected than disconnected :0 anyway great video :D
Seriously though, literally shouted "No, no!" at the sight of that. Might have literal PTSD from getting WAY too involved in classpecting and having some bad experiences in the classpect community! Fun!
@@vanderkarl3927 🤝
only?! damn i must be hanging out in some wacky classpecting discords
An off topic observation i had away from the element system is the strange running motif of Carnival stuff throughout both chapter such as the carnival games of the in the cyber world, the circus animal cages at the card kingdom, the mentioned carnival in the light world at the end of chapter 2, jevil being a clown with his overworld theme being "The Circus" . All of these refrences to carnivals and circuses gives me the impression that if it were to become a dark world it would have a greater significance than just simply being another dark world?
Idk thank you for reading the end of my long ramble of a strange trend i started to see a couple of hours ago.
I forgot to mention that there is also two notable amusement park rides in the cyber world such as the Roller Coaster during Berdlys fight and the Ferris Wheel.
The two super bosses use theses carnival themes, even though it wasn’t really connected to spamtoms theme, as well as the out of place tea cup ride
Maybe it could play into the theme of the dark world being a game, or an escape from reality
Susie was talking about an upcoming fair.
The weight of the things happening in the world right now is crushing. This popping up in my notifs helps, at least just a little
I think that element 6 is not cat, but strings. Many attacks from Tasque and Tasque Manager are using strings (that is, a wool for Tasque and a whip for Tasque Manager) and Spamton has strings attached to his body.
Edit: okay, i have been rethinking and now I believe that on the game code, multiple elements occupy the same slot, and cat and strings might be the element 6. But keep on mind that this is only valid on the game code.
Edit 2: can you guys fucking stop with the cat6 cables, i get it okay? I'm not blind, I'm seriously at my fucking limit here.
Edit 3: Just remembered the elemental pairs, apparently cat and PUPPET are a "elemental pair" and is why the mannequin protect both against Spamton and the Tasques. But why is Puppet and Cat paired?
Would make a lot of sense
but… EVERY attack that doesn’t involve strings from them?
Spamton NEO uses element 6 likely because that's literally Gaster's number
@@xstar9567 even though I don’t believe in Gaster theories at all, Toby would probably do that to make us go insane with our theories
@@spiriox voice from intro literally uses number 6 in game files
Oh my. Spamtom being a cat was such a snowball of discoveries with elements chart. Is so big that the snowball has snow enough for Snowdin...
Nice video!
The Spamton Q&A addresses elements!
YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT [Cats]!? WHAT AM I, YOUR [favorite search engine]!? FINE, I'LL GIVE YOU SOME [Free tool tips and funny animations!] HAVEN'T YOU HEARD OF [elemental pairs]!?
WITH AN [Valuable item], YOU CAN DEFEND AGAINST [Puppet/Cat], OR [Thunder/Light], [Dark/Star]...
JUST WATCH OUT FOR THE[$#&*] THAT USE [Death/Scythe]!!! NEVER AGAIN!!!!
I saw that too! It explains why the items that reduce cat damage also reduce damage from spamton, he's a puppet! (Additionally, he may also be a cat as well, considering a secret on the Spamton Sweepstakes website relates him to a cat raising video game Noelle used to play). Thunder/Light seems to be another way of saying Electric/Holy. Dark/Star I'm less sure about, but it may be a reference to the beings we see when Ralsei explains the Roaring (dark creatures with stars on them), or perhaps the save points (stars we only see in the Darkworld). Of course, it could also just be elements we haven't seen yet. The same could be said for Death/Scythe, but I don't think so. My first instinct when seeing Scythe is to think of Jevil, the only character we've seen have a scythe so far (Spamton and Jevil also reference each other in their dialogue). Does that mean Scythe is Chaos? Maybe, but I think scythe is much closer to Blade, given that scythes literally are a type of blade. Does that mean Death is Chaos? That doesn't seem right. Could Spamton be referring to Kris then? Maybe, but they aren't really associated with death, as we've never even seen them kill anyone. Is it then perhaps a future secret boss? A Weird Route character? Who knows, certainly not me. Especially since I'm typing this all at 3am lmao
maybe the names of the elements depend on who has them and not on the element itself...
In any case I'm thinking of the 天 element to be something akin to 天罰 which is related to thunder... I mean, if you're struk by lightning, it's usually thought you were SMITED by whatever divine entity lives above in H E A V E N (天)
And maybe the element can be changed depending on events, imagine if changing the class to Moss finder you changed Kris element to Blade:Moss and now have weakness to anti-moss attacks
As you said, the code can change so I'm more interested in the storytelling posibilities, and changing Noel's element from Ice to Heaven would make her the angel, If she ever gets a lightning attack remember me- .... lightning...
WASN'T THERE A LOT OF LIGHTNING IN THE ROARING...
AS IN **ROARING THUNDER?!**
And... There being both a Shadow and Sky Mantle spefifically, perhaps even being the same one, while the Roaring is the world being covererd in darkness with some relation to the Angel...
@@Estra_Estra you know, you could say that chaos is order that was left in shadow, since shadow is a symbol of the unknown... a shadow like in a basement where the sunlight doesn't reach... too many symbolisms
Id also like to mention that Lightning is always divine in ancient cultures. the Aeniad describes Athena raining lighting down on the ships of Greece as "Divine Fire" while the Wolves of lightning, Raiju, are divine messengers, and also deliver Smiting bolts for the gods.
Very good video! You brought some very interesting things to my attention that I wasn't aware of. I've also been thinking about doing a video on the Elemental Magic, so I was a little nervous when I saw this video pop up, but thankfully we focused on very different aspects of the system! I look forward to your next upload. Keep up the great work! x)
Are you still planning on making that video?
@@board-qu9iu He posted it!
8:38 Thank God(tier) you brought this up, I was holding back ready to comment about the opposing nature of Elements. There's a whole study on Classpects that the HS community gets into, and just like Toby- Hussie never shared much information that helped created a concrete system. gotta remember the two of them share philosophies!
homestuck? in 2022? god, please help me.
Noelle being a boss while having snowgave *might* be a problem
I actually thought that was what would happen my first time through. At first I was a little disappointed at Spamton being used again since- and I know this is dumb because Toby is anything but- it felt a bit lazy? I definitely don’t think that anymore, though.
It makes sense looking at it more closely since this route shows him to be very opportunistic. He encouraged Kris (or rather, the player) and Noelle to cause panic through their killings in return for the ring of thorns, which allowed him to slip into the mansion amidst the panic.
It makes sense since he’s based on scammers- someone who will mercilessly ruin lives for their own gains. And honestly I like that this route shows just what he’s willing to do. Who cares if an entire city gets exterminated if it means Queen’s workers drop their guard enough for him to achieve his goals?
And after thinking it over after my first time through the route, it wouldn’t have made sense for Noelle to suddenly gain the courage to fight back. Of course not. That would have been too much of a 180 far too soon. _Maybe_ later, but not now. Her not standing up to us shows how much control we still have over her, and it’s going to take a lot of willpower and growth for her to shake that off, assuming she can ever manage to do so, and honestly it’s all so much more disturbing this way. So bravo Toby, your idea was, unsurprisingly, much better than mine.
It could be like how Seam implied we can’t beat the next secret boss without the shadow mantle. We might need an item to protect against the ice element to survive snow grave.
Im just gonna throw something and see if it sticks, because im not really sure if it's solid, but since the sword spamton sells is called "THE BIG *ONE*" maybe it has something to do with the holy/electric element, aka element 1.
I guess the first two chapters are just introducing gameplay and from chapter three on woulds they will be more element reducing gear and elemental weapons which is cool with it being super important as the game gets harder and as the secret bosses get harder. (While spamtom is easier then jevil he technically isn’t a secret boss as in snowgrave he is the final boss)
I Imagine “red” is not color but Determination, as we “add our power” when using red buster.
9 being Blade would make so much sense actually, since you mentioned it's a number associated with Chara. Who has a pretty well known history with blades...
hey, just wanna say i appreciate the effort you put in your theories. unlike other deltarune theory youtubers, you are interesting to watch.
Yeah, and his theories make sense and are well constructed
@@mihael64 yep
Yeah, I do agree. I only really like his and TwoLeftThumb's theories. Most of them seem to classify themselves as the "DARKEST MOST MYSTERIOUS THEORIES YOU HAVE EVER SEEN!!" and it's just so annoying
@@goldy_sg *cough cough* jaru *cough cough*
@@mihael64 *AGGRESSIVE COUGHING* YES *MORE AGGRESSIVE COUGHING*
It's not that I don't like his content, it's just the way he presents it puts me off it. His theories are decent but just tedious to watch because he always goes on about how shocking they are.
The fact that Snowy shares their ID number with berdly sent chills down my spine
How it's even possible to squeeze this much content out of a game at it's currently smallest state amazes me.
I appreciate Your and others hard work to make stuff like this. I couldn't ever see myself doing anything like this for any game.
IMO Element 6's secondary element comes not from some meaning related to its primary aspect (Cat), but rather from the number Cat element happens to occupy in code. Number 6 in undertale and deltarune's code is strongly associated with gaster and cut content. Perhaps 6 stands for 'erased' things? Which would explain why Spamton only has this element in NEO form. It is implied that NEO form is actually Mettaton-Ghost's fanart of their own dream body they deleted into recycling bin. That would also reinforce connection to Gaster among 'cut content'/erased elements. As for Cat part of element, I don't think it's connected and if any other random element like Fight or Color were occupying spot of number 6, they'd still be sharing it with Erased element.
Now this may come as a shock but the wires holding spamton are probably CAT6 wires. Meaning that cat also has a representation of 6 in both the literal and metaphorical sense.
This
This, is something that hit my head yesterday, it's not exactly a theory, maybe a prediction but it's a new view of the game for that i discovered on my own. (It's kinda dumb but i wanted to share it, also nice video keep up the good work, I'd love to see more Pokemon vids too)
So
Undertale, we know the game now, you spare and you kill, it has different out comes, different endings, endless timelines of different outcomes.
Deltarune, everything you do. doesn't matter, everything you do is irrelevant and does not matter, killing and sparing has the same outcome.
But then, we were introduced to Chapter 2, the "Snowgrave Route" well what if i told you that the Snowgrave Route isn't a genocide run. It's a parodox you created, I'll explain
Toby Fox has stated himself that this game has 1 ending, he's right there is 1 ending and only 1, this game is the story he's trying to tell he's right on all that, but this "Snowgrave Route" was something that was never meant to happen, you see Deltarune already has its story it's plot and it's ending already scripted it's a game, it has been planned out and it has only 1 timeline it's regular timeline. But snowgrave route is something you can cause. In Undertale, the way that everything is viewed is that is that it's already happened, everything you do in undertale has already happened, it's been set to happen, it was meant to be, in deltarune the Snowgrave Route was never meant to to happen, you caused it. But the game still goes through the story it's written to go as, that's why the chapter 2 ending isn't different. After doing the Snowgrave Route and leaving the dark world, you can go to the hospital, Noelle isn't important for this but the one item in the hospital room is. The little bead toy. What i think this toy is, it's a way to represent the timeline in a way, the blue bead was snapped off. Representing berdly's death. That. That was never meant to happen at all. But you caused it. You created this new timeline that was never meant to be. I think that the snowgrave run isn't its own genocide. It's a new timeline that you created, it'll lead to its own chaos. And how i think every chapter will work is that there endings will always be the same. But the gameplay and regular story of the Snowgrave run will be very different. And for the ending. You'll get the ending VERY differently but have the same end. Deltarune is a Game. A regular RPG with a story to tell, but you can create something far more interesting than that. A new outcome. With the same end.
If you didn't fully understand what i said then that's alright
Basically the Snowgrave Route is a new timeline that you created. Deltarune is a regular game that has a story to tell. It has 1 ending. But you. You can do something else with this. You created a forbidden door that was never meant to happen with the story.
I like to call this new way of perspective the game. The "Forbidden Route"
Also another i came across by is that you can't get the Egg in snowgrave run so that's another to mention for this, i think that all of this will definitely connect to gaster in a way. If you liked this then thanks for reading. If you think you stuff to add onto this then feel free to share your thoughts, thanks again for reading. :)
(If you ever want to do a video on this feel free, i think this worth talking about)
You deadass just said something 90% of people thought of while playing Snowgrave.
That said, Snowgrave is a genocide route. You go on about it being something the player created that wasn't intended and claim the Genocide route was set in stone. It wasn't. Strictly speaking, both are "unintended", but both were put in by Tony so that the player can have a different journey. In Undertale it changes the story on a foundational level, because that game is about choice. In Deltarune, it will not, because Deltarune is about the illusion of choice. The journey will be different, but the destination is the same.
Also outcome and end are the same in this context. You can't have a new outcome and different end because those words mean the same thing here.
Super interesting vid as always! When the Homestuck aspect chart popped up on screen I got really excited, because a lot of the way Deltarune seems to work with the ideas of roles and magic kind of reminds me of the SBURB/SGRUB title system. I'm honestly not nearly as fond of HS as I used to be, but I still find the mechanics of how Paradox Space works to be super cool and fascinating.
To actually get back to the topic of Deltarune, I'm suprised HBC didn't mention Berdly's Ice weakness, because unless I'm remembering wrong, that's the only time the game explicitly tells you what kind of elemental vulnerability a character has. Also, I didn't know who could get that much dialogue from shuffling darkners around in Castle Town, I'll have to try that the next time I play!
If the Order element has themes of control, authority, and obedience, is it possible that the SOUL is/has the Order element?
im in love with how you just jammed カオスだよ：カオスだね into your spreadsheet as the JP name for chaos
It only just occurred to me how concerning it is that there is a dust element. Assuming monsters dying runs on the same logic as undertale, there is basically a corpse element.
As a new viewer, I just wanna say I have no issues with the TTS to begin with, but I would also like to show my appreciation for your handling of the TTS as a skill, due to the fact I can already tell that you are putting in an extra effort to ensure the TTS is actually pronouncing words/names the way you want it to, rather than JUST typing a script and sending it straight in. Pretty much No TTS gets everything right, but I haven't heard _anything_ weird from your videos that wasn't like... clearly intentional.
Oh man sometimes we spend hours trying to fix a word before concluding there's nothing to be done, and then I just kinda tuck a little visual easter egg in there to excuse it and call it a day.
the existence of a 'dust' element is something and a half, considering dust is pretty heavily used in conjunction with death
There was a post on the official Deltarune site saying that one of the elements was Death/Scythe (the same post implying that Element6 is not just Cat‚ but Cat/Puppet). If Element2 is what Jevilsknife deals‚ then it's pretty clear that Element2 is Death/Scythe and having armor 9 (or Determination) be effective against Death would make a lot of sense.
I can confirm, in term of difficulty:
Tea cups > Neo Spamton with solo Kris
The trick is to not move until the last long double helix. Moving makes you hit more projectiles and take more damage, and the amount you take without the helix is not enough to kill you.
Y'know, if Ch3 adds an elemental system to the game, I wonder if that means it'll also include a mechanic to switch out party members. Right now each party member (barring Ralsei) is tied to a specific element (Rude, Ice, and Wind/Holy if we include Berdley), so maybe Ch3 will give the player the option to switch around their party at save points in order to hit enemy weaknesses and tank enemy resistances. We also know from the Halloween sword/pencil that element changing weapons are on the table too, so I'm thinking Deltarune is gonna start really doubling down on its puzzle elements in combat. Which also means the Weird route is gonna make the game harder, as we potentially lose a reliable source of Holy/Wind damage, in exchange for making our Ice damage stronger... alongside whatever other unforseen consequences.
After all this time, the whole spamton giveaway thing confirmed that (at least in the words of spamton) that one of the elements is cat/puppet. Are we the puppets to the cats?
As a lifelong cat owner: Yes
i think certain elements like ice or blade are stronger forms of the elements they follow from.
the way those that use them act symbolizes the way of "growing stronger" is characterized in deltarune/undertale
an increase in LOVE, a decrease in attachment to empathy. you get stronger by caring less about the consequences of your actions, caring less about how what you do affects others.
a frozen heart loses the capacity to care so deeply
a sharpened gem cuts through its enemies with less resistance
i dont have this well constructed exactly, but i do think this is definitely something to dig into a bit more
I really hope these elements have a bigger impact on the game, like not only do the elements have different effectiveness with certain armor’s and weapons. But I also hope that certain enemies and characters have stronger bonds or have specific effects if paired with each other in battle.
I just noticed that tasque manager sounds like the most useful program for closing software “task manager”
This guy, THIS GUY, is the BEST RUclipsr, he never let's you down, every video is✨perfection✨
I like the homestuck reference,since toby work a lot with the web comic is normal for him to put reference of it in his works.
Also nice description of the connection between the element.
HECK YES, a 20 minute long HBC video! I'm sick rn so you have no idea how much this cheers me up :D
There’s a secret link in the Spamton Sweepstakes that features two characters, one with a crescent moon for a head, and the other seems to have a cloud for a head. This is probably where the sky element will come into play.
Hey this seems like a good place to put my deltarune theories. I bet some of these have already been said but just in case:
One of the followers in undertale holds an egg looking thing, and says that he's holding a piece of gaster. This may imply that the eggs in deltarune are actually pieces of gaster as well. A sort of prediction I have is that particular piece the follower is holding got there somehow after the events of deltarune. The eggs might also be a metaphor for the pieces of gaster shattered across time and space, since you place them in different areas of the town.
Since that shelf thing in the unused classroom dark world is the card castle, the closet in the computer lab dark world is probably the queen's castle. The narration says that a large person could fit inside, that sounds suspicious but it might be a reference to giga queen.
This isn't a theory, more a thing I just wanted to point out: kris is actually the one who suggests to susie that they go to the library
The level of detail and polish in this video is truly aspirational! Also, the existence of a holy/electric element does make me wonder if the “holy” in “holy cungadero” is not just to make it sounds like a swear, but also a literal description…
car that hits so hard it does holy damage
I find it interesting that Spamton references both electricity and cats when you defeat him by reducing his Hp
"I will fill my [body] with [Electricaty] and become Spamton [EX]"
Where's the cat reference tho
@@WhoStoleKirya73 When he says "Electricaty" As in Electri-Cat-y
As a nb aroace, I loved being referred to as "friends beyond the bonds of conventional attraction." 10/10 would get called that again
I think that we would be remissed to not look further into the potential(and to an extent already existant) role of the more common elements that exist in most if not all elemental systems.
Ice is already a clear player in this puzzle, but a common elemental partner to it is water, which, although not acknowledged so far in the elemental system has theming that exists in the more hidden parts of the game's narrative. As you've covered before in one of your other videos, there is a surprisingly large amount of reference to the ocean in Deltarune. Ocean.ogg being heard just before Kris wakes up in the Dark World for the first time, "The song from the sea" that Onion-San mentions that seems to be referring to Don't Forget, Even jumping back to Gaster's little anomalous corner of Undertale-based mysteries, The Mystery Man, who by all means surely must be Gaster, is found specifically in Waterfall despite what you'd expect given Gaster was the royal scientist and the royal labs were located in Hotland, suggesting a connection between the element of water and Gaster and/or darkness.
Another bit of element-symbolism that feels especially loaded in implications to me is one of Jevil's final lines, "Hell's Roar Bubbles from the depths."
We all know Ralsei's prophecy talks about us needing to banish the Angel's Heaven, but that would only make logical sense if the balance of light and dark was being tipped in favor of light, which is the opposite of what's going on during the current story of Deltarune. Ralsei then later refers to the incoming calamity caused by dark fountains as "The Roaring," which combined with Jevil's reference to "Hell's Roar" seems to suggest that Hell's Roar is the shadow alternative to Angel's Heaven.
The fact that he describes it as bubbling shows that the "depths" he's referring to are the depths of the ocean, generally the mental image this sentence seems to meant to convey is a volcanic vent opened at the bottom of the ocean causing its superheated gasses(or simply heating up the water to the point where it becomes a gas) to bubble to the surface. This supports the idea that the ocean is used to represent the Dark World because its from the creation of the Dark Fountains and thus the Dark Worlds that the "Roaring Hell" comes forth. Plus the entire reason the Ocean is associated with darkness is because deep in the ocean light cannot penetrate the water, leading to a large portion of the ocean being dark and unknown. And Jevil specifically refers to the depths of the ocean, strengthening that association.
Another thing this element symbolism brings up however is the concept of Hell, which is constantly associated with fire in media, which Jevil's description supports thanks to the whole bubbling thing. Which also brings a new meaning to all of Noelle's symbolism.
Noelle has the element of Ice and has a ton of Angel imagery surrounding her. (I think they're even directly connected to each-other given the common term "Snow-Angel.")
Ice is cold and Fire is hot so it makes sense for them to be on opposite "teams" so to speak, but there's an interesting difference to be pointed out that Angels refer to the residents of Heaven, not Heaven itself, while Hell refers to the place, rather than its residents which would be Demons.
(This is backed up by the fact that Noelle is, although prominent in the symbolism and prophecy of Deltarune's Storyline, simply a resident of the Light world. A relatively normal Lightner.)
This makes me figure that Fire is actually opposite to something else and that there are separate elements for Heaven and Demons.
The opposite of Water, when referring to the ocean in the context of location, is typically thought to be Earth. There are water-dwelling creatures and there are terrestrial creatures. And this notion is backed up by Ralsei's description of The calamity in his first prophecy, which says that the ground will crack open, suggesting that it plays a similar but opposite role in the emergence of the Angel's Heaven as the Ocean does to the emergence of Hell's Roar as described by Jevil. Plus, we generally think of the world we live in as "Earth," a name that is synonymous with the terrestrial ground that we stand on. Thus allowing it to act as a contrast to any alternate worlds like the Dark World.
Jevil's reference to Hell's Roar comes in at about the same place where he references the shadow of the Knights hand, and there's significant enough parallelism between Anti-Kris(Who is implied to be The Knight) and Chara to support the idea of The Knight being associated with Demonhood. And The Knight/Anti-Kris are always being associated with their Knife, which could simply connect to the "Blade" element established by Rudinn Ranger, but it could also, elementally speaking, represent the element of "Metal." As most knives are forged with Metal.
The stronger reason why I believe Metal to be a part of this fantasy elemental setup we have going on here is the fact that Ice and Ocean are, when you get down to it, technically the same thing just in different states. They're both H2O but one is solid and the other is liquid. And if you were looking for something that has a similar relationship but to earth, my first guess would be Metal. Both Earth and Metal are essentialy minerals, but Metal is a more refined and specific form, making Metal and Earth different "States" of each-other just like Ice and Water are different states of each-other.
This especially makes sense because in order for a metal to become the form in which it is used as a metal it needs to be made hot, drawing a parallel between the connection of Metal(Demons) and Fire(Hell) very similar but opposite to the connection between Ice(Angels) and the Opposite of Fire which we could assume to be cold.(Heaven)
(What's especially interesting is the fact that this would imply that Heaven is applying its coldness to Hell's Water in order to make Angels and vise-versa which sounds a lot like what I would describe as "Divine Hypocrisy" which is a very thematically interesting concept.)
This means that as far as a Typical-Fantasy-RPG style of elemental system, there should be 6 basic elements, 3 aligned with light, and 3 aligned with shadow.
The Dark World is Ocean, Demons are Metal/Blade, and Hell is Fire. The Light World is Earth, Angels are Ice, so what is the element tied to Heaven?
Answering this. . . is actually a confusing mess, pretty much solely thanks to the Sky Mantle.
The Sky Mantle's stats list it as giving resistance to "Holy/Elec," which based on everything we've established thus far _would_ make perfect sense, as its a religious-based element treated as synonymous with a typical-fantasy element. . .
*If it weren't for the fact that the Sky Mantle's own NAME makes it inherently associated with a 3RD element: Sky.*
What makes this even more confusing is the fact that we can be pretty much sure that Electric isn't the kind of synonymic combo-element that Ocean, Ice, Fire, and Blade seem to be by the fact that Ambulance has Elec but not Holy. Plus it wouldn't make sense for Holy and Elec to both be labeled when Ice is just Ice.
But then there's the fact that Berdly references his seemingly electricity based Halberd as "Holy," which is one of two places in the canonically accessible game so far that the term "holy" is ever actually referenced, the other being the song that plays when we seal Dark Fountains.
(Also side note: I'd like to point out that Ambulance has + sign imagery, not Cross imagery. The Christian Cross has the bottom end of the shape being longer than the others. + signs are often associated with hospitals and health, especially in video games, hence Ambulance being a doctor.)
But despite this ridiculous self-contradictory confusion, All of these possible elements could easily be connected together, along with another very common fantasy element that would fit here, Wind.
Lightning comes from the Sky and is sometimes associated as coming from a place of divinity, a la Zeus or Thor.
Heaven is often associated as being high up in the Sky, often depicted as literally taking place in clouds.
Wind is much more prevalent high up in the Sky.
And both the affect of wind on an object and the low air pressure of high altitudes are cold, making sense of the association between Ice and Angels.
Its also worth noting that while Fire and Ice are often paired together as opposites due to their association with heat and cold, ice is a physical thing while fire is not. Fire is more of a _force._ Scientifically speaking its classified as a plasma. Wind is also a force, and Lightning is force as well as being scientifically classified as a plasma although it is definitely not cold.)
I can't help but also notice that the word "Holy" doesn't really refer to a thing or a force, it's rather an attribute, much like "Cold" in the context it was used 2 paragraphs ago. Which would make it weird to have Holy as an element while keeping cold as an attribute that is inherent to Ice, Wind, or Sky.
Unless that's the entire point, and, much like how Berdly used the word, putting Holy/ in front of an element specifies that it is a Holy variation of that element.
"Holy/Elec" being an abbreviation of "Holy Thunder!" Which would very directly connect to Zeus or Thor.
Meaning that Thunder isn't actually connected to Heaven at all, leaving Wind as the most likely element to represent it.
Like I said, the moment we got into the Heaven side of this coin things got really complicated really fast.
as a former homestuck classpecting fanatic... THIS is the kind of apophenic pattern recognition i like to see in a storytelling device!
this man be trying understand whole game from 2 chapters and suprisingly it all makes wierd sense
Spamton being a cat makes sense a bit, is probably because his personality and actions are close or resemble that of a cat. They like their independence and FREEDOM, and like doing stuff on their own, but a lot of cats still RELY on a person to keep them alive. (Quite literally Spamton’s story) Cats are playful and sociable, but can also be secluded and unfriendly. They can be social with humans, or very aggressive. (And this ties into experience and their fears) Cats can also be very FEARFUL. They flip-flop all of the time, and that’s exactly what Spamton does. He flips. He can either be the social, fun, business man, or he is the fearful individual that will do anything for freedom and independence (and is very aggressive towards Kris, the human). A lot of personality traits of cats are secluded in mystery of why they are the way they are. I think this fits Spamton. Cats have an order to their chaos.
Spamton isn't a cat though, Spamton NEO is, and you can buy the mannequin before his first fight too, right?
@@Estra_Estra I know Spamton isn’t literally a cat. I’m just providing an explanation to why he holds the element. Its more of symbolic reason it seems. Cat like traits without being a cat. (plus i’m not typing out Spamton NEO every time)
Also sleeping in a garbage can lol
@@jackietheclown Oh I thought you just weren't making the distinction whatsoever, like, as if he always had the element. But well, even then I'd say it doesn't work too great for me when the requirement for NEO makes it seem like the source of the element doesn't even come from his general attributes in the first place, despite the items. Maybe... it's because he didn't consider himself complete in his weaker body, so he was only... 55% cat or something??? I am not Googling "how much cat until you're cat" today.
Also yeah I know you weren't saying he's _actually_ a cat, if anything it was me who made it seem like Spamton NEO literally was one which... would crumble my world if so. But anyhow, I didn't mean that either... Well okay, he's definitely not... _totally_ a cat, anyway. I hope. And pray.
...Hmm, this one seems like a pretty big stretch to me, but, y'know how people have pointed out how the yarn balls and whip match with the strings, but that it ain't perfect since other attacks still have their damage reduced? So like, maybe it's a bit of a weird joke with cats always being bound to try to play with strings, and so Spamton being inherently attached to those makes him a cat in that way? Fits with unrelated Tasque attacks still being blocked while nonetheless tying it (haha) to him, but uh, bit hard to see that being put into the game by someone who'd then go "yeahh I'm sure people'll figure it out" with how roundabout it is.
I think the Blade element is like Ice in that it is tied to a personality trait. Ice is introverted, Blade is extroverted. The Rudinn Rangers are much more egotistical and have much more of a will than regular rudinn. Also, the Knight, frequently tied to blades, makes fountains, and that requires super intense will. It makes too much sense not to be the case.
"Beauties and gentlebeauties, friends beyond the conventional bounds of attraction" I have never heard this but I fucking love it.
18:47 maybe the next secret boss will involve something around darkness or shadows.
This reminds me a lot of another similarly symbolic theory I've come to have recently, that honestly I'd love if you could make a video and contribute some input about.
I think there is a significant amount of color-based symbolism going on in Deltarune, especially in regards to Kris.
Of course there's the basic stuff like Susie being Purple and Noelle being Yellow, but I mean more like colors being used to tell a story than that simple association.
And it all starts with their clothes.
We already know that Kris wants to be more like their family, right? The fake horns and "How to do Magic" book give us enough to determine that. They're also very often portrayed as being in their brother Asriel's shadow. In this context, the fact that they dress up in the same type of clothes that we know to be associated with Asriel thanks to Undertale _says a lot._
Kris is seemingly the alternate universe counterpart to Frisk. They have the same skin tone, same hair color, same flirtateous nature at times, they even have a slightly different version of Frisk's name just like Susie in comparison to Undertale's Suzy. But despite this, they don't wear the colors that we're used to seeing Frisk wear.
Instead of wearing Blues and Pinks, they were Greens and Yellows. The colors heavily associated with Asriel. _EXCEPT for when they're in the Dark World._
The Dark World is generally framed as a place where Kris is free to be themselves and a place where they're generally happier. The outfit they wear is mystically tailored to their personality and preferences, as shown by what Susie and Noelle end up looking like, and when interacting with the closet in their Room that Ralsei made they say "You could wear anything you want," but don't actually change what they're wearing, as if what they're wearing suits them perfectly.
So, in a place where Kris is happy and free to be themselves, they proudly wear an outfit of Blue and Pink, but in the Light World, where they're ostracized for being human and are constantly living in their brother's shadow, they wear Green and Yellow, the colors that Asriel used to wear.
It's actually really sad when you think about it. Kris doesn't seem to like themselves and wish they were a monster instead of a human. More like Asriel and less like themself. Being in the Dark World with Susie, Ralsei, Noelle, and others is the only place they feel free enough, or perhaps even _safe_ enough to be themselves.
And I'd bet dollars to donuts that this color-symbolism is going to go further in the future.
The next chapter is going to involve Toriel being in the Dark World alongside Kris and Susie. I predict that, with Toriel being part of the problem, Kris is going to revert back to their green and yellow color-scheme for the duration of Chapter 3. Which would be the first time this color symbolism would be made explicitly clear.
Plus, my theories propose that Gaster is taking control of Kris during the epilogue segments where the Soul is taken out of their body. (The "Anti-Kris" or rather, The Knight.)
And Gaster is constantly associated with _a complete lack of color._ So I predict that when shit goes down and we eventually have to fight The Knight, Kris isn't going to be Green and Yellow, nor Blue and Pink, but rather _Blank and white._ A visual metaphor for Kris's depression being taken advantage of and made worse by someone who is taking advantage of them.
Probably will be important later, like probably REALLY important.
In the middle of chaos, order, and rude there would be stretching the rules/making new rules
litterally my favourite content
still in utter shock that you managed to figure out the whole elemental pairs thing months in advance to the sweepstakes, kinda crazy
This started with guesswork, and still pulled out several good ideas that tie into the story! The system as a whole may not mean much (yet), but I'd be surprised if none of these points become a bigger pattern somehow. Speaking of which, you know about the Ch1 spores thing, right?
Since the SpamtonSweepstakes Q&A, I'm guessing puppet/cat are paired as a sort of general "Property" class element, not unlike how holy/electric are a sort of "Sky Magic" class element.
After all, both puppets and cats have owners, and cat could be later extended to a Pet or Animal element.
It's funny to see fans race to unlock EVERY part of Toby's code while Toby rushes his hardest to get the rest of the game done
holy shit did bread accurately predict holy/electric before the sweepstakes. i am in awe
i was just marathoning your videos lol! good timing! you make great content!
18:46 Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there a leaked item called the shadow mantle? What could be the case regarding that is that you are required to give shadow crystals to Seam in order to craft the shadow mantle and fight the secret boss. It would make sense if Toby wants players to have to defeat the other two secret bosses, before progressing to the third.
I knew there was more to those elements! Glad you covered this, I would've never found all this information.
The maniguen and frayedbowtie are both spamton realtied items so his element might be cat to make coding easier.
This is so interesting, and I enjoyed your editing. It’s very good. And seems like it is getting better. On topic of the elements, I really like how some of Deltarune elements are not typical. We have freaking Dust, Rude, mouse, chaos, and Cat elements! Very silly, but a nice change.
i am now convinced you are a deltarune demigod who knows all
HOW HAVE I NEVER WATCHED A VIDEO FROM YOUR CHANNEL BEFORE? This is beyond excellent! The research, scripting, editing, and everything is phenomenal, and you even programmed the TTS to annunciate since you use it as the primary script deliverer! How in the hell do you have so few subscribers for this quality???
Maybe “cat” is software and “mouse” is hardware
well then queen would have to be cat/mouse, the swatchlings would have to be cat, virovirokun, popup and ambyu-lance would be cat and werewire would be mouse
I think it's safer to speculate that Monster Lightners can have two elements that make up a new one, like Berdly with Holy Electric making up Sky element, Susie likely has a combination of Chaos and another elements that create the Rude Element, my favorite candidate its Cat just for Susie being referred by alphys as the cat that drinks the dumpster milk, int he case of Noelle on why she is pure ice, i think that it has to do with her not being strong/resolute enough in chapter two, and i think that now that she has a stronger resolve she can gain a secondary element depending on the Route chosen.
Great video, but I feel like your analysis of the electric/holy element was from a limited perspective. You mentioned at 8:34 how Chrono Trigger has Holy and Electric as the same element, but from an eastern perspective, those aren't opposites. From what I understand, East Asian mythology is polytheistic, and rather than worshipping one of many gods, they worshipped heaven as a whole. They also believed in the idea of lightning as a power reserved for the gods, hence its inclusion. For an example outside of RPGs, in Dragon Ball(which is super mythologically inspired), Tien's name literally translates to 'heaven' in Chinese, and he is the first character to be able to fly. His signature move also creates an electric aura around his hands. Akira Toriyama, Dragon Ball's author, was the lead character designer on Chrono Trigger, and I have the feeling that they wouldn't have brought him on if his style and mythological influence wouldn't fit.
Basically, I think the element typings will probably be similar ones rather than opposites.
(Sorry if this was hard to read btw, I have the feeling its a little wordy)
y’know, holy/electric are exactly the types of words you could probably describe asriel dreemurr, with him using various stars and bolts of lightning in his fight it’d make sense if element 1 was catered to reference him, perhaps other elements may link back to other undertale characters, maybe even some from deltarune too
8:35 HOM3STUCK POL1C3 OP3N UP >:]
To support the snowdrakes mom thing actually
If the number 55 is associated with them it could be on purpose since we do see everyman a few times like in the Jevil fight, in the alleyway where Alphys is even in the battle with queen for one of her attacks
Maybe its a hint of some sort that isn't fully clear but maybe the almagamates have a deeper part in this madness too?
If they didn't then it surely is confusing why everyman seems to tend to pop up here and there in some unique places
Might be able to actually help find connections in a way too
If you kill Jerry, which can appear with Snowdrake and Ice Cap, it drops 55 gold.
mean girls, as seen in their element (rude)
Chaos fits a bit less than rude does. We don’t have enough proof to guess anything about this, but we can try our best!
Everyday gets better when HalfBreadChaos posts, but as always, I’d like to make sure you aren’t draining the life from yourself to entertain ideas. Keep it up, can’t wait to see what you think of next.
Hey HBC, could I ask your pronouns?
they/them
Thank you!
Watching your videos while working on stuff I procrastinated about at 11:40 at night. Thanks for making these videos, they're great to listen to.
We now know why Spamptop is a Cat.
He was originally a specil egg in ,,Cat Petters 2" Noelle got.
He became a glitch and didn't hatch,then left da game and ended in the computer in the Labrarby, then sent Noelle spam emails.
It's possible Gaster literally created Spamptop and send him to Noelles game.
Edit:
Also Noelle is kinda his mom, which means that in SnowGrave his mom kills him....
Instead we now know that Spamton is a cat because of elemental pair and how cat type is also puppet type
I just saw that "egg" in wingdings is how the knight piece moves in chess
based
lmao first comment
damn second comment
@@BafflingBard 🌟NOBODY CARES🌟
third comment!
@@puttle6070 I care
I think the elements go in pairs of the same thing, like chaos and order because chaos is an order that we don't understand, or holy and electric because deities (idk if I spelled it right) are made out of energy
im glad we got more answers about elements eventually lol. its a weird, barely acknowledged bit of the game that plagued me for a hot minute- anyway, this is probably my 3rd time watching this video- bread's videos don't really get old. nice work, keep this shit up 😁
I’m guess that elements 0 and 10 are nightmares and dreams respectively.
Or perhaps even HOPES AND DREAMS.
Hope can pierce through every notion of doubt.
People seek escapism via dreams.
rude damage seems to be non-lethal out of the battles, like Susie uses the purple beam as a tool or to make someone go away rather than to hurt.