Dialogue Dive: When Game of Thrones' Writing Was Still Good
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- Опубликовано: 28 май 2024
- Come check out a breakdown of how phenomenal the writing of Game of Thrones used to be by watching one of my favorite scenes: Tywin vs Joffrey.
Music: The Children
• Game of Thrones Season... 
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Great video as per usual. I totally agree with subtext being the hardest part of writing dialogue, god knows I've struggled with that.
There are a few other things that stood out to me in this scene, the use of levels is another way Tywin asserts power, when he wants to be imposing he walks up the steps to make the person he's talking to look up at him, this makes it visually clear who is in power. An old dramatic trick but it works wonders. I also love how the king asks Tywin a question and he doesn't say a word for a very long time as he climbs the steps, as if to say the king doesn't have the authority to ask him questions and he'll respond in his own time.
Yeah I wanted to include breakdowns of the camera work and blocking so bad, but at the end I cut it to really focus on the dialogue. The whole scene is honestly golden.
Agree on the masterful use of levels. Also, the way most shots are framed to show Tywin as large and imposing and Joffrey as lonely and small. Even before he climbs the steps, Tywin is clearly the bigger man
@@savagebooks7482 The latter half of the show just didn't feel the same, even on a technical level the way things were shot. Scenes just felt flat and monotonous and the poor writing compounded things even further. Characters felt like puppets being moved around on strings rather than characters with agency who face the consequences of their actions or mistakes. The earlier seasons just felt so textured and thoughtfully made. It's like watching two different shows altogether.
@@lovepotionsinc Beginning in season 6, the dialog started becoming more pedestrian and driven by story goals than the other way around. By season seven all semblance of authenticity was forfeited to make things happen and appeal more to the popularity of the show. There were still occasionally brilliant shots and scenes, but in general they, too, became more boilerplate and in service to the predestined end than having the end seem an organic conclusion to what has gone before.
I don't know if it counts as subtext, but on Tywin walking up the stairs: he also does so as somewhat of a demonstration. As if to say, "I'm an old man, and I'm walking up these stairs just fine, stop being a baby."
Joffrey: But I've never been owned
Tywin: You are being owned at this very moment.
Oh beautiful. Someone frame this and put it in a museum. 👏👏👏
🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Time proved Joffrey right... xD
They were not just eastern curiosities.
Time proved Robert Baratheon right as well.
J Melchor to be fair, when was the last time Joffrey was otherwise right about something?
"Feel free to skip ahead", as if anyone would miss the chance to see Joffrey squirm in front of Tywin again.
Miklos Hujber hahaha true dat
You got that right😆😆
Exactly. I've watched this scene many times, one more won't hurt.
Miklos Hujber I literally just rewatched this episode last night and I’m still going to watch this scene again.
I love how Tywin never ends his sentences with, "you little shit," but it's so heavily implied that doing so is unnecessary.
Oh yeah
Tywin has the ability to say “you little shit” without voicing the words.
It’s his facial expressions. You can see the derision in his eyes
😂🤣😭
He is an amazing actor and the perfect choice for Tywin
I like how Tywin isn't dismissed, he decides when the conversation is over.
Yep, if you notice the beginning, the royal guards actually leave the room, so there was no one to even escort Tywin out other than his own Lannister guards.
Dany: "Jon, I'm pregnant."
Jon: "I dun wun it."
Lol
@@ankhmahor7211 thats better motivation then most of the characters have in s8 to do shit
Nevuh asked frr it
yur mah qween
I dunno what else to say.
This scene is actually Joeffry at his most competent. He's worried about a credible military threat and aware that his grandfather is usurping power.
PainCausingSamurai did u notice how scared Joffrey was when Tywin walked closer to him ?
@@nnekam6153 Maybe that is as competent as he can get (in front of tywin lannister anyway)
viraj gupta yes, it’s sad to see that his worries are actually justified and he decides to take action.. but’s all nullified due to him being a little brat and Tywin being the imposing man he is.
Omg YES it's what I said too
Also, as foolish as the writing is, it was Dany and her dragons that caused the downfall of house Lannister.
I like his physical answers a ton.
When Joffrey complains about walking up the steps of the tower of the hand, Tywin could have made his quippy remark from below. But he responded first, _by climbing stairs._
Extremely efficient writing, he insults joffery by climbing the stairs and it also serves to show the power imbalance shift to Tywin as he climbs to stand above Joffery showing he has the power in the scene.
Genius writing
Good point
@@jockturner1547 io
@@jockturner1547 yes there was an analysis of how genius it was the way tywin command power. He always like to stand close to someone's personal space to make them uncomfortable and also to intimidate them, this was also shown when he spoke to Jaime in the tent in the 2nd season. Here, with the way Joffrey was positioned, you can see that Joffrey was placed on a throne higher than Tywin, so you can clearly see the power imbalance. But then Tywin shifts it to his favor by climbing up and standing infront of Joffrey, making him equal if not, higher than Joffrey now and Joffrey was clearly intimidated and uncomfortable. He waited until he is in equal or higher standinf than Joffrey and then he deliver his point. It's amazing script writing but also phenomenal acting by Charles Dance
Power shifts
Ironically enough, Joffrey is the one being reasonable and forward-thinking in this scene while Tywin is too busy trying to win the pissing contest with his grandson.
I don't think there is enough evidence present this early in the series to actually justify that sentiment. Tywin is dealing with the real and present issues at hand, and at this point the objects of Joffrey's fears are unfounded and wasteful.
@@wordbearer8202 and mostly because his father had an irrational hatred of Targaryens and one of his last commands as king was to kill Daenerys. So it's not even his idea.
true
Historically, Dragons are like having a nuke.
Tywin, should of been concerned.
Jeffrey was right even if he was misguided.
Interestingly for all of his horrific and incompetent attributes, it seems that when it came to military strategy that joffrey had a decent head for it, As he also give his mother a monologue about How are the crown needs their own standing army with no allegiance to any other Lord. Despite his Cowardice on the field
I just love the delivery of “We could arrange to have you carried”
This line says: "You want to be treated like a grown up. I will treat you like the child that you are."
@@immortaljanus I don't think that's really the subtext of the line. We see the highborn of Westeros are often carried through the cities, getting carried isn't exclusive to children.
“You’re the king you lazy bastard”
@@immortaljanus Ive always interpreted the line as Tywin calling out Joffrey for not wanting to actually attend meetings but just wanting control. Joffrey doesnt attend many small council meetings but he DOES hate that Tywin has the power to bring them up to him. Its a control thing and by Tywin saying they could carry Joffrey, he is saying he is not budging an inch on the matter because his work is more important than Joffreys ego. Its easier to move the king than it is to move Tywin, which speaks volumes about his strength as a character and an influential figure in Westeros.
Captain xd
"Feel free to skip ahead"
One does not simply skip a Tywin Lannister scene.
Red Floyd very true 4 me...
Seriously you cannot.
😬👌
Especially when he is verbally pimpslapping Jeoffry.
Red Floyd Agreed!
"Whenever necessary." What a great caveat to properly informing the king on important matters.
The camera-work is also really impressive: At first, Tywin is shown clearly beneath Joffrey, but as the conversation continues the camera's angle shifts to over Tywin's shoulder, making it look as if the two are on the same level. After Tywin climbs the steps, that same angle is used, now leaving him towering over his grandson. The shot/reverse-shot segments further show Tywin above Joffrey, highlighting his power in the scene. Finally, as he leaves, the focus and perspective as he walks towards the camera place Joffrey clearly in the background, with Tywin in the center of the shot and growing larger, never looking truly below Joffrey despite descending the steps.
It’s a shame this was not touched on previously as to me, it’s the strongest thing about the scene.
Great look. I saw the same. Add in that the king's eyes, how he had to look up to speak and the whimmy way he asked his questions. When Tywin was done with the conversation he did not ask for permission to leave, he left and he took his sweet time to do it. Excellent writing and demonstration on how to take control and command power. I love that show.
Season 1-4: *Consistently clever dialogue with fantastic delivery that often evokes questions of philosophy*
Season 8: *VaRyS nO cOcK 😂😂😂👌🏼👌🏼*
Yep
Meh, that wasn't have as irritating as "MUH QUEEN! She's MY QUEEN, THAT'S THAT!". WOULD I HAVE BURNED PEOPLE ALIVE?! BEEN A BETTER LEADER?! BAD QUESTION - BECAUSE SHE'S MY QUEEN!", repeated on loop, x5000
Because there we no cock jokes before season 8 right? Oh wait!
@@Darkness1984 And there were instances where Jon defaulted to honor the chain of command over feelings too. That doesn't excuse 'muh queen' as bad dialogue new to the later seasons. Or cock jokes.
The issue isn't "she's my queen" or cock jokes by themselves. It was the frequency, the filler it was clearly used as, and the way it was used to drive the characters by the plot, not the other way around - like in seasons past. Take for instance earlier talk about Varys being a cockless eunuch, that was far more productive. This was just poking fun constantly to kill screen time. You can't compare them, and it is practically dishonest to try and do so.
Darkness1984 you’re 30 years old and don’t understand that jokes can be overdone. I’m 20 and I’m smarter than you.
As the old saying goes, Game of Thrones died with Tywin Lannister.
I'm happy he died. Tywin Lannister with dialoge written by D&D in season 8... That would be 1000 times worst than a dumb Tyrion.
Tywin: "At least I got out early."
@@katokianimation Agreed. Same goes for Margaery, or Olenna. The seasons they died in may not have been the best, but at least their characters weren't ruined.
Glad I bailed too
Tywin: I dont want it.
One point missed in this video is how Tywin responds when Joffrey complains about having to climb the stairs in the Tower of the Hand: he slowly and purposefully walks up the steps to the throne. Aside from the intimidating effect, it also serves as a silent judgement of Joffrey's laziness, as if Tywin is saying "yes, and look how easy it is to walk up a few stairs."
Also, Tywin gives a heartbeat look, maybe thinking you little snot, you're too lazy to do it, but you want me to do it... while you are wasting time doing kingly matters, my time is actually valuable, and spent shrewdly...Fuck that, this is how it's gonna be...
And then starts ascending
And also, Tywin goes from looking up at Joffrey from the bottom of the stairs (seeming smaller since he is further away) to going up the stairs and standing close to Joffrey looking down on him (seeming bigger and more autorative). You can see how Joffrey shrinks and feels less in control as Tywin is getting closer to him.
Because the channel studies the *dialogue* not everything else. There'd be much to say about the silences, the stares, the camera work, etc., if you were to study every aspects of such a scene. Different channels go into details of all those aspects, they tend to focus on what their channel is about (acting, cinematography, writing, music...)
i thought that was the biggest take away from this whole scene, and was surprised it wasn't mentioned at all.
It's also notable since Joffrey is clearly just complaining as a way of trying to assert control, since Tywin already suggested he actually join the small council meetings and he showed complete disinterest in the idea. So if Joffrey isn't going to take the task of governing seriously, why should Tywin make concessions just for his ego? I think that's a major undercurrent to why he acts hostile and authoritative for the rest of the scene, and one wonders if he'd take Joffrey's concerns more seriously if Joffrey actually agreed to start attending meetings and get more involved in the actual work
The real icing on the cake with this dialog is the amazing acting.
Charles Dance perfectly portrays Tywin's intimidating demeanor, and you can FEEL his disdain for Joffrey dripping from every single word. Likewise, Jack Gleeson does a phenomenal job of portraying Joffrey's failure to maintain an aura of authority under the withering glare of his grandfather, and perfectly shows that Joffrey understands who's ACTUALLY in charge, regardless of rank.
Everybody is a gangsta until Tywin walks up thr stairs and looks down on you with that glare lol
Also worthy of note: does not kneel or bow, approaches without permission and leaves without permission.
I also like the way they use height and space to visually match the dialogue. Tywin walks the long hall and stands at joffreys feet (indicating he should be inferior) when he gets irritated with joffrey he walks the stairs and towers above him, then he leaves with a smug look on his face walking the long hall (showing the physically imposing power structures, like the throne, Hall and airs and graces etc... Are meaningless. Tywin has the real power)
Also dismisses his Kingsguard escort with a glance. You know, the Kingsguard that Joffrey is allegedly in command of.
@@js9785 Exactly. Tywin knows that Joffrey is a weak little child. The only thing that gives him ''power'' is his status as a king.
Thats been a theme throughout the show. Joffrey is a sadistic king when in command of his guards, but a coward when it comes to him doing something alone.
Tywin saw through that attitude of ''i am better than everyone'' by saying ''We can arrange to carry you there'' which made joffrey embarassed, and nervously touching the throne.
He does bow slightly in the beginning
He bows at the end as well
I think everyone is aware just how amazing Charles Dance was in GoT, but Jack Gleeson absolutely nailed this scene (and many others).
@Cosmic Fool Hard to blame the actor when he reportedly apologized to the actor of a character he was an ass to.
@@whoknows7968 he did? lol he's such a nice guy.
Yes! Charles Dance and Jack Gleeson are amazing actors. Lord Tywin is a horrible man, but with Dance's formidable acting he was easily my fave on the show!
Yep, it's a waste of talent when he decide to stop acting
I agree.
I split Game of Thrones into DT and AT: During Tywin and After Tywin
Me too!
Lol
Lmao
In addition, when Joffrey calls the dragons "curiosities", imitating his grandfather, it shows how his grandfather is the one in control of the conversation, since Joffrey is changing himself, the words he uses and the way he talks in order to fit his grandfather's style, showing that he is the dominant one.
I feel like that was more Joffrey just responding to what his grandfather called them since Tywin was down playing them. Because he immediately said followed up with that brought the world to heel. So it was more these “curiosities“
Yea, no....
No, because he didn't refer to them as "curiosities" throughout the dialogue.
He opposed Tywin's POV on them as being "curiosities" against his own POV of them being "beasts," which is why he used both words and also why there was disdain in his tone when he used Tywin's word.
Tyrion: You just sent the most powerful man in Westeros to bed without his supper
Tywin: You're a fool if you think hes the most powerful man in Westeros.
That's one of my favorite lines by Tywin
Daniel Latempa
Tyrion: Such Trechary. Joffery is King.
See it's just dialogue like that, that made the show so great. Small sample size - sure, but amazing nonetheless.
To quote The Old Lion "Any man who must say, "I am the king" is no true king".
So what's that say about Tywin?
Insinuating that he's more powerful than Joffrey, that said some speak with their words and others with their actions ...
Tywin rarely used what he said to get his point across, more often it was what he didn't say and how he didn't say it that made him clearly understood - to the point that even boneheaded brutes like The Mountain could understand Tywin!
Oh dear. So many points missed. The scene is purely about status. The dialogue is secondary, the visuals are secondary. Placement within the narrative is key.
This is the scene where the viewers step away knowing that Joffrey just became a sub boss part way towards the end of the level of play. Twin is firmly established as the Lannister patriarch.
It's a wonderful scene.
I'm convinced someone besides D&D chose the actors after the failed pilot. Either that or they're just nearly competent enough to recognize good acting.
When 5 minutes of dialogue has more complexity than season 8.
The most anticipating season to the biggest show on earth really starterted out with "at least your balls dont freeze off" joke. Yep.
It felt like it had actually more dialogue too
Even if they had maintained the same density of information, some would have complained. Problem was, too many people started watching the show and everything that is watched by the mainstream goes to shit. This kind of dialogue requires attentive watching, the kind of watching many people are not capable of anymore. People had "watch parties" for GoT, like it's the Superbowl!!! That's not what this show was made for. Idiots spoiled this show, they got the ending they deserve, simple and without any subtlety.
@@red_calla_lily Yeah, IMO too many characters had plot armour by season 6. I bet if you tracked the characters that were in it from the start, those that survived to that point basically all survived to the end.
Season 8 wasn't the only bad season.
I agree with most of your analysis. However, “May I ask why?” with the tone Joeffrey uses implies impatience and is an attempt at Joeffrey to assert some sort of dominance, in my opinion. Because if a student didn’t do their homework, for instance, and the teacher says, “May I ask why?” the teacher is not asking for permission to ask a question. The teacher is asking, “And why the f*ck not?” in the most polite way in modern English. Thank you 😊
Joffrey doesn't ask like this with anyone else.
Honestly I think it could be read either way as "why tf not?" or as a sign of inferiority, but I could be wrong because I haven't watched the show.
I suppose this sentence hits differently when you realize how actual monarchs were treated, especially during periods when the institution was well established and was crossing into imperial territory. The king is not some CEO talking to his unruly subordinate, and what we're used to treat as an expression of an impatience or as a quip nowdays could've been seen as completely ridiculous and damning coming from "the first after the God" (depending on the era or region, but you get it).
I must agree on this, the way his head moves and his hand does not show he's asking for permission.
Polite you say
"We could arrange to get you carried..." the subtext is actually "you are young, walk up the tower if you really want to know more"
Its not a threat, he is calling him lazy
It's a reassertion of Tywin's authority. Rather give Joffrey what he wants, which in this moment could be that he wants the meetings to take place in the Small Council room, Tywin basically says, "No, this is how it is, and this is how it's going to be. If you take issue with it, it will be you who changes, not me."
I think its undermining. Joffery ask about walking up the tower because to him the king should not have to travel that far, much less when it's at "subordinates" room. He already was not planning to attend the small council meetings but when he found out they were moved he felt it underminded his authority. He brought it up because he expected at Tywin to offer to move it back but instead Tywin turned it around on him and gave him alternative options without giving him what he wanted. His alternative also implied that Joffrey was weak or frail. It was insulting but not openly insulting since he was still providing him with options and Tywin never backed down from moving the meeting. Total power move
And him walking up the stairs confidently was a clear joke. Sub-text: "look how easy this is and I'm five times your age."
It's a threat, it's a denunciation of his laziness and weakness, it's a tacit refusal to even consider his demand that the small council meet in the proper room, it's a show of a complete lack of care for Joffrey's authority, and at the very, very end of this list, it's basically just a saying he's actually still a baby. There are so many meanings wrapped up in it due to context.
it's both
Joffrey complains about having to climb the stairs of the Tower of the Hand and The Hand climbs the stairs to the iron throne to tower over him. Beautifully executed.
Woah
Nice pickup
Literally "Get on my level."
MAN that’s good you caught that. That made me chuckle out loud. Brilliant
It's weird that Joffery has actually had two really good ideas. First he wanted a standing army and then he saw the threat of Daenerys
That's one aspect of this scene that makes it so good. Joffrey was actually raising reasonable points, it's just that none of them aligned with what Tywin wanted, so he just shot him down.
Tywin is in the right here. While Dany will be a threat because of the tropes, she is not the threat to anyone at Westeros at the moment. Tywin had to deal with the starks in the north, greyjoys at the west, the One True King at the east, and the realm's most popular house by his side. He cannot spare time or energy looking at some rumors the other side of the world. It show the realism and pragmatism of Tywin. And he is right, it took the dragons years before they are able to arrive.
This further validates that Cersei is the reason Joffrey acts like a pychotic halfwit. If Tywin or Tyrion raised him he'd be much more civilised.
King Joffrey the Great
@@joesubel Tyrion and Jamie are pretty fucked up. Many things can be said of Tywin Lannister but father of the year isn't one of them, I mean two of his kids were fucking and the other one killed him, plus he had his son's wife raped. Also, I think a lot more of his issues, at least in the books stems from Robert and Joffery's attempts to live up to him by replicating some of his bad behavior, namely violence and a bad attitude towards women. The difference is Robert knows hitting the weak is generally pathetic whereas Joffery believes strength is punishing anyone who defies him sadistically. This also fits into a series theme, you know the thing the showrunners think is just for eighth-grade book reports. Namely that the person who raised you is more of a father to you than the one who sired you, see Jon and Ned and maybe Tywin and Tyrion. Ironically the best parent figure for Joffery would probably be Ned Stark, who at one point was advised to take up the regency and just mary Myrcella to Bran and Arya to Tommen. Though by that point Joffery was too far gone.
The pause, the stare, the climbing the stairs to show him how easy it is for an old man while the young king is complaining about such a benine task, the king then forces to look up to him.....the script, dialogues, acting, execution, direction....EVERYTHING was of pristine quality!
Benign.
The walk up the stairs is also a power move, it changes the perspective from Joffrey looking down upon Tywin to Joffrey having to look up to Tywin, whilst also relating to the line "I would have to walk up all those stairs"
Season 3 dialogue: This absolutely great stuff right here.
Season 8 dialogue: Jon saying "She is my Queen" over and over again, Tyrion reduced to making "I have a cock and you don't" jokes at Varys with no wit.
Ugh, you didn't have to remind us.
“Muh Queen”
Joe Harker I dun wanit
Because there were no cock jokes before season 8 right? Oh wait!
To be fair, the stupid overly used cock jokes started way back when Tyrion got to Essos. The show has been on decline for quite a while.
"May I ask why?" In British English is used with sarcastic subtext. Its the kind of question your teacher might ask when you say you've forgotten your homework. They're not actually asking permission to ask a question of you, they're expressing incredulity.
It's somewhere in between in this case. It's not a weak "Please, am I allowed to do this?" - Joffrey does consider himself king. But it's also not a strong assertion, showing his uncertainty dealing with Tywin.
Came here to write that exactly. Saved me clicks lol
Same in India.
Its to emit irony*, to mock the other
It may imply sarcasam but it does the opposite for the power struggle against Tywins implacability because it only causes Tywin to treat him even more like an impetulent child.
I particularly love the detail of Tywin immediately climbing the stairs to confront Joffrey right after he complained about not wanting to climb stairs to meet his responsibilities. Very much a "look at me, I'm climbing stairs right now" statement.
Plus like... you made me walk the walk you didn't to walk, while I am a busy man working, so you can be wonky
Also the veiled threat. We can arrange to have you carried.
1) you can be carried because you cannot walk yourself like some unfortunate "accident" happened ... and I can arrange that.
2) we can have you carried and show everyone else how f*cking lazy and incompetent you are, thus losing you more power and respect.
Dance did a magnificent job at portraying Tywin. He was so calm yet immensely intimidating.
8:48
I actually see the phrasing of "May I ask why?" to be Joffrey's attempt at patronizing Tywin. He's trying to be a smartass with it, not literally asking permission to ask a question.
At that point he's still annoyed but hasn't yet realized he can't control the situation no matter how hard he tries.
You’re right Nickerson. That was his way of establishing or regaining some dominance
Maybe so, but I hard agree that the subtext is still there that he is ceding power by asking permission. Tywin commands the frame of the conversation with direct statements, while Joffrey is asking whiney questions now, from an optics/power dynamics standpoint.
@@GlobusTheGreat
And I maintain my disagreement. In that specific moment, the question wasn't whiney, it was intentionally patronizing.
i think the 11:16 line "Don't you think we ought to do something?" is a better case of Joffrey asking for permission and for an opinion, subconsciously acknowledging Tywin's authority
Tywin was without a doubt the most formidable character in the entire show
Yes, and Charles Dance did such a splendid job as well
Larsluster absolutely an incredible actor like so many in that show. One of the main reasons I can’t forgive D&D for their rushed progress, as much for the actors as the viewers. No wonder kit Harrington went into rehab
The best hand, if he was alive the realms would probably be at peace and prosperous
iplayeddsharpminor have you met Hot Pie?
Daggerman105 - nothing on podrick who can make whores loose their minds (with his voice as I assume we found out)
My personal favorite part of this scene is when tywin walks up the stps so he can use is imposing size to tower over Joffrey while he's on the throne. It's a power play beyond words, it makes people feel like children and powerless. It shows how he knows to dominate without words and with his presence alone.
The smirk was petty, and Tywin has no time for juvenile behaviour. That was a miss for me. An eye roll would have been more fitting.
And a shout out to the actors. They all did a great job, even when the scripts were bad, the actors still did a stellar job.
True
Was literally thinking "Wow impressive that D&D wrote this scene how did they fall so hard" - glad you swiftly cleared that thought away at the end
Sarcastic Simon To be fair, I think it’s unfair to characterize them as bad writers throughout the entirety of the show- they created the scene between Tyrion and Jaime in the cell where they talk about beetles before the Oberyn trial by combat, and that’s one of my favorite scenes in the show, and is a fairly important moment for the development of Tyrion and the themes of the show canon.
I think a more fair characterization is that they did a good job until they lost interest, culminating in a shitty shortened season and them jumping ship to Star Wars.
@@jfrazorofficial7355 not to mention Tywin + Arya
@@jfrazorofficial7355 nah man. It's their job to deliver the show in the best form, remember we paid for this.
Sarcastic Simon they did write this one scene in an episode otherwise written by grrm
JFRazorOfficial I had a lot of problems with that scene. First, D&D wrote it out of spite. Orson Lannister doesn’t really exist in canon. D&D made him up and named him after orson scott card, a critic who wrote a scathingly bad review about game of thrones. Second the scene serves no purpose, it doesn’t tell us anything we didn’t already know that’s relevant to the plot. And third they cut the tysha reveal from the book claiming they ran out of time. This scene was easily cut-able and they left it in for no good reason!
'We could arrange to have you carried' actually insinuates several things at once
1: A veiled threat
2: Implying the impotence and uselessness of Joffrey
3: A sarcastic quip
Also the “we”, as in our group that you are not in
@@misterkami2 Oh good point I didn't notice that!
And also that the meetings will still happen in his tower.
All very good points - there's also the fact of couching a truly insulting and humiliating thing under the guise of being helpful. Remember when this show was good? The pain is still there
I also picked up on him walking up the steps as to show if my old ass can move up stairs you should be able to do so as well
"Gods, the dialogue was str-"
"Don't say it. Don't f--in' say it."
There is much more.
The scene starting with Tywin, already making him the more important character. Also it's a powerplay beginning to end. Tywin first at the bottom of the stairs, obeying formality, then moving up, leaving Joffrey the options of either standing up (and still being smaller), or remaining seated on the throne, his source of authority.
The message is very clear, Tywin saying:
"That throne doesn't give you any authority over me".
This position change is greatly supported by the camera angles.
Also the situation becomes more intimate. The undertone in "We could have you carried" becomes that much more effective. So Tywin is also shown as very skillfully gaining advantage over Joffrey.
Joffrey, snarky in the beginning is reduced to begging for information and doubt over his authority in the end, where Tywin barely keeps up formality by turning back for to deliver "Your grace" to a minimal bow.
Again great camera perspective when Tywin leaves, turning his Back to Joffrey (a show of strength), and we see Joffrey much smaller behind his back due to perspective.
Acting, camera, lighting, editing, it all comes together, and that means the director imagined the scene he wanted, probably there were storyboards for the different camera shots.
much as everyone hates Joffrey, he was being sensible in that scene
I guess nobody thinks he's capable of doing anything about anything, if they're not even bothering to keep him in the loop. Haha.
I’m told it happens at least once per book. Something something stopped clock something something twice a day.
The only fuckin time he was actually competent in his entire “rule” as king. Which is kind of hilarious if you think about it
I really quite agree, imagine that one of Joffrey's deep thoughts was just dismissed by someone who feels that he's the power. If the King had his way at that time Dany might have been defeated way before she was more established or her dragons maturing to what they eventually became. Tywin caused their doom.
Why didn't the little prick do something about if he cared so much for the people? Oh wait he didn't care. Granted authority never cares about you and never will.
The contrast between Tywin holding the Small Council meetings in the Tower of the Hand for his own convenience vs. his disregard for the inconvenience it causes Joffrey is also a huge power move in this scene, communicating how much more valuable he considers his own time than the time of the King.
Mutant Green Panda - Tywin is a busy man, and when you have Seven kingdoms to run, time is of the essence.
Tywin was older than he looked. I think leaving the tower of the hand was difficult for him, so he used the productivity excuse to hide that fact.
@@hero0fcanton190 probably both, time and knee pain
He has time to use the 'secret' tunnel that way.
Yeah, he mocks Joffrey's description of the trouble he'd have to go to attend the meeting, when Tywin's just finished talking about how much trouble the other one was for him.
9:02 I also feel like there is subtext in Tywin's actions. Joffrey complains about having to "climb all the stairs in the tower of the Hand," and Tywin then immediately climbs all the stairs to the throne very slowly and deliberately, as if to show Joffrey how much of a child he's being.
Slight thing i noticed. The king feels powerful when he has people he can order around him. Like how he would order his guards to abuse Sansa than do it himself. Tywin stops the king’s guard from following him all the way so the king is isolated with him far from where he draws power. The king then relies on hight and distance to feel power and safe but Tywin takes even that away.
This might be a small detail, but I love the fact Tywin climbs the throne stairs right after Joffrey complains about having to climb all the stairs in the tower of the Hand. It shows me that Tywin subliminally, besides wanting to intimidate him and end the introduction, wants to show Joffrey that he is capable of doing the things the King wouldn't bother with.
The same thing is done with Ardyn and King Regis in the Kingsglaive movie. Only there, Regis is actually a competent King. The subtext really picks up if you play Ardyn's DLC and then re-watch the Kingsglaive movie.
@@beckyweiss6072 imagine watching this long cutscene that´s somehow not in the game uniconically and boasting proud about it. smh
There is actually more subtext to it. Joffrey the King complains about climbing the stairs of the Tower of the Hand, and the Hand climbs the stairs of the Iron throne to tower over the King. Its fucking visual poetry.
Really well put. Love that tywin shows how impactful the climbing of stairs can be and then suggests something utterly humiliating for the king
But Joffrey is right ,he shouldn't have to go to the tower of the hand to attend his own council he actually realises Tywin is usurping power but he is just such a powerful man that he cannot do anything about it
Notice that Joffrey usually ends his sentences with his voice going up (shows uncertainty) while Tywin ALWAYS goes down with his voice. This shows certainty and superiority in a situation.
"You wanted to speak to me."
Not "You wanted to speak to me?"
I see you watched charisma command's video about Joffrey and Tywin. Lol
@@extraneoustitled5103 I'm not sure I did. Tone of voice is something I pay attention to.
This scene really shows the acting prowess of both actors as well
Another thing I noticed is that Joffrey does not make eye contact. Tywin never wavers in his eye contact, I don’t even think the man blinked. Just one more difference between them.
@@Karak971 exactly, and when Tywin walked up the stairs joffrey was visibly shook. Like noticeably afraid of Tywin.
His brilliant portrayal of such a despicable character makes it easy to overlook Jack Gleeson's AMAZING performance as Joffrey.
Tywin: “We could arrange for you to be carried”
Me: *Giggles at the visual*
Tyrion before: Threaten me again and I'll have you thrown into the sea
Tyrion after: *gets hit* here have high garden
That was so stupid on so many different levels. They could have completely removed that storyline - they could have used the 2 minutes for a scene that actually mattered. Hell we could even have seen a tiny bit of character development for Daenerys. This all makes me SO ANGRY
Tyrion said "Threaten me again and I'll have you thrown into the sea"....not "Hit me again."
Tyrion was just as likely to offer up gold or land to more imposing people throughout the rest of the show. His decision to offer up high garden to avoid getting killed isn't out of character in the least bit
@@krovarus1911 fucking following though with it is The Reach would have risen against Bronn.
Valore Dramack you still get the point don’t you?
I've always been impressed with how Tywin came into the room. He walks with two guards, paused, they stopped, and he kept walking without them. So well trained, they know without word what to do.
And wouldn't dare cross the senior Lannister
I thought maybe they were Joffrey's men sent to summon him. I didn't realize the Hand had their own guards. I suppose that would make sense.
@@imonymous those were kingsguard so yes they were Joffreys men. It might have been standard protocol to do so though.
@@imonymous even if the hand didn't, Tywin would. He knows he has a lot of enemies
I like the coreography at 2:23. The large steps are set up to make whoever is counseling with the king to feel small, with the king situated far above them. However, the angle of the camera has Tywin's head appearing above Geoffry's. This leads to the idea that while Geoffry is official above Tywin in power, Tywin has the true power.
Camera angles were great too. It starts with Joffry being above Tywin showing that at least he thinks he is in power and we, the audience should think that as well. Then, as the scene progresses, Tywin walks up the steps to where they are even, and by the end he is looking down on Joffry to show that he is in fact the true one in charge.
Also, nothing better than a verbal bitch slap and this scene also shows how to make a character intemidating without resorting to a boring shouting match.
"Once the king of television."
*shows Robert Baratheon.
Very clever.
START THE JOUST BEFORE I PISS MYSELF
BESSIE! Thank the gods for Bessie... And her tits!
RUUUUN BACK TO WIIINTERFELLL! ILL HAVE YOUR HEAD ON A SPIKE!
It’s obviously GRRM writing. The man is a genius and has been writing dialogue for over 40 years.
This scene wasn't in the books though so as popular as it is to hate on D&D this scene might very well be there's
@@The810kid by this time Grrm was still helping the show by writing for them
@@The810kid did you even watch the whole video? Well it ends with grrm having written the scene. So the hate lives on.
@@kerovibe GRRM himself has said he didn't write every scene in this episode. Including the titular scene of "The Bear and the Maiden Fair". Some scenes get moved around. "The original planned title was "Autumn Storms." In January 2013 he announced that the title had been changed to "Chains." However, due to scenes from another episode being moved into it, it was decided to retitle the episode to "The Bear and the Maiden Fair." Thus Martin himself didn't write the scenes that include the bear (which all occur in one big chunk at the end of the episode). "
There's also this "In the DVD commentary, George R.R. Martin explains that he didn't write any of the scenes with Theon Greyjoy and Ramsay Snow in this episode (in which Ramsay emasculates Theon). The novels didn't state that Ramsay cut off Theon's genitals, though it was vaguely implied that he had." Although that also implies that he probably DID write every scene in the episode he didn't specifically deny writing.
at about 5:00 on the mark. Tywins purposeful turn of his back then, switcheroo to say 'Your Grace', then a swiftturn and march down the steps cemented right then and there who really ran the 7 kingdoms, Every scene with tywin having a full dialogue scene gi es me chills, such a great actor 👌👏
The astonishing thing here is that Joeffry is half-way competent since he actually was right that something should've been done about the dragons before they became a serious threat. The kid may have been a nutcase, but he did have moments of common sense.
That's my older brother on the left, opening the door for Charles Dance at 1:46 He was a crew member on the show but had to replace a Kings Guard extra that didn't show up that day 😆👍
Interesting trivia!
Well that obviously works to represent how the new generation of Kingsguard were basically a bunch of extras in terms of their overall significance/competence. Honest guys.
Was the extra beheaded for his crime of desertion?
Coooool
Hey, that's cool!
I think the fact that Jack Gleeson could do this scene with Charles Dance and not seem out of place is amazing and speaks to the actors gift .
Great video with thought provoking content
Perhaps in 30 years the young man can repay the favor to a youngin in another show We will all love.
@@stevekillgore9272 sadfully he can’t due to quitting acting
@@harveyhodgson8782 just spending time in a safe non-dragon space is all.
@@harveyhodgson8782 they always quit acting until the right paycheck comes along or until they need the money. He'll be back even if it takes his 15 years.
@@freepalestine.23 I think all of the horrible death threats he received would be enough to deter anyone from taking another acting pay-check
Tywin always being larger (closer to the camera) in frames is a simple, effective way of letting us know who the boss is. Tywin even crowds Joffrey's shots, and not vice versa.
"You are being consuled at this very moment." Charles Dance at height of His power.
Proper daddy material oof
Gods Game of Throne was strong then...
Lol! Channeling Robert Baratheon circa season 1. 😂
Go find the plot stretcher, now!
@@mrmcawesome9746 Go find the plot armour stretcher, NAAAOO!
@@mrmcawesome9746 Breast plate stretcher NOOWWWWWW!!!!
Which is dumber jon snow or D&D...D&D
Joffrey also keeps his eyes averted for a lot of his dialogue while Tywin keeps his eyes locked on
Amazing how Tywin doesn't even need to lie to his grandson: "whenever necessary". And he never considered to be necessary to inform the King. Great analysis!
I'm more interested in the framing and blocking of Tywin's movements. Notice how even early on when Joffrey is looking down at him, the way it is framed places Tywin in the upper right corner and Joffrey lower on the left, regardless of which camera we view from. When he moves up the stairs to assert himself, and Joffrey is left looking up at him, the only thing that changes is Joffrey's perception of their relative positions. We've been seeing Tywin above Joffrey from the outset.
Plus when he bitches about having to walk up stairs, Tywin walks up stairs to show him just how hard it is. He puts in the effort to get shit done while Jeoffry pouts and complains.
@@prophetofbeans6781 the final aspect of Tywin climbing the stairs to show the relative ease, would still leave him in control as he would then force the king to come to him.
And when Tywin is walking down the stairs the cameras view of him is below so when he’s on the lower level it’s like the audience is looking up at him
Wow we got a team of captain obvious’ in the room. Did you go to Emerson
Also notice how the fires are framed in the shots. The fires surrounding Tywin are always larger and brighter than the fires surrounding Joff.
The one time in the ENTIRE show where Joffery's worries proved to be warranted.
Not really. He is just the immature selfish boy who wants to play king and madman. This dragon queen had nothing to do with his downfall, nor where his worries should have been placed. At least at that time.
The Doom From Latveria no no what he means is that he was right about having to do something about dany. He obviously died far before it would matter to him but in the end Dany is who brought the end to the Lannister dominance. So yeah his worry was actually pretty fair.
Even so, it was still just rumors, took years for the dragons to arrive, and if my memory serves me right their skulls at that point still had the size of an apple. They had more pressing matters to deal with, like the armies at the north and the increasing suspicions on the true heir to the throne.
Howard Boen yes true about them having more urgent matters at that point. But had they taken down dany before she became a fatal danger, the Lannisters would likely still sit the iron throne
@@ashdude3058 but hindsight is 20/20 they had no way of knowing if she would really even become a major threat, especially not at that point. they didn't even know if her dragons were real or if they were they didn't know if they would even get big. there was wayyy too much to worry about given that all they had was hearsay and rumors of dragons. and also they did try to poison Dany, but Jorah prevented that. it's not like they were totally ignoring her presence. I'm sure Tywin had a plan but he had more pressing matters to solve before Dany which could wait.
But why they didn't form a standing army, especially when they had enemies on all sides? I'll never understand that decision.
I’ll give it to joeffrey, he was concerned about a potential threat to the realm and wanted to know any information on it. And when he was told it wasn’t a problem be basically said “ u don’t know if it is or isn’t” but because Tywin was so wise about many other things he thought he was right about Danny. Oh how wrong he was.
Tywin was legit one of the best characters in GoT
“I shall wear this like a badge of honor”
“You’ll wear it in silence or I shall honor you again”
Love this scene. A grandfather telling off his spoiled grandson and putting him in his place. Despite said grandson being the king. Says so much about both characters.
Looking back, I remember hating Tywin. Not because he's a bad character, far from it. It was because he was just so ruthless in his actions and unyielding towards his children and grandchildren. Particularly towards Tyrion, who was probably one of the characters I sympathized with the most.
That to me is a hallmark of good writing. Tywin was just so believable and well-written he evoked feelings from the audience through his words and actions.
Shame that the show's writing took a steady nosedive after his death.
He was a bad guy that made sense to hate. And yet he was a bad guy with goals that made sense. And some of them were virtuous - the good of the kingdom. That’s a good bad guy.
Tywin would have been the strongest leader of all time if he was just a better father. He screwed over all 3 of his kids, especially Tyrion which ended up being his downfall.
Fuck Tywin he killed Robb
Every character needs a weakness and Tywins was his kids, otherwise he would of likely been unstoppable.
I also love how it's shot to make Tywin look so much bigger no matter what angle you see
I've never seen a single episode of game of thrones but MY GOSH I love the grandfather's character
Some remarks.
1. "May I ask why" in this example is not "asking permission". It's a manner of speech, but could also be mildly ironic, showing Joffrey's discontent that he actually has to ask this question ("Why?") Though it does show his subjugated position because, if he really was in power, he wouldn't have to ask at all, information would be given to him.
2. It is definitely not true that Tywin doesn't *want* to give information to Joffrey. He simply wants to teach the boy a lesson in humility (and reality), saying: if you want information (or anything), you have to work for it and not bug me every time get an itch to act like a king.
3. I can't believe you missed to address the most important moment: Tywin climbing up the stairs. Up until that moment, the situation was of formal Tywin's subjugation, him being below and Joffrey looking at him from above. However, once he stands next to the throne, the thing changes completely and they are both aware of it. Just look at Joffrey's face as Tywin approaches. That is pure gold and gives the viewer the most crucial information about the scene and the characters that the scene has to give.
There is a scene in the mistborn series about how Kings don't request. They demand. And they do it calmly and without even accepting the premise of denial.
agree, "May I ask why" is Joffrey asserting himself via sarcasm.
To challenge your third point...SavageBooks is discussing dialogue. Not the actions. They're both just as important as each other, but in a video about dialogue, the actions won't be addressed.
I think that could have been seen as sarcasm on Joffrey's part more than him actually asking permission.But after that brief counterattack, Joffrey ceased to spar effectively with Tywin.
I took it as Tywin being in control because Joffery is afraid to come out and demand to be told why because he knows if Tywin refuses, he has no recourse. By saying "May I ask why?" he is actually asking a more open ended question that will be less likely to embarrass him.
I like how when Tywin has that turn towards subtle anger, it cuts to fire.
You SO clearly see when he is angry, but he never lost his class and his stature. (a.k.a. never lost his shit.)
A lot can be said about the camera work and angles and body language too. When Tywin goes up the stairs it's filmed from between two torches, giving the feeling that it's about to heat up. The whole point of the throne being on an elevated platform is so that the king can be more imposing while sitting on it. The stairs should only serve as a way for the king to get up there. Tywin completely ruins this purpose by going up the stairs himself made clear by the upwards angle showing him standing tall above Joffrey. Really amplifies the significance of "we could arrange to have you carried".
The one thing you missed is Tywin imposing respect when he was climbing the staris. See how Joffrey shrunks and backed off physically until he couldnt because the Iron throne prevented him to do so. Also, the face of despair and defeat.
All of this without even looking at body language. Excellent play from both actors here. Tywin's calm, stoic and confident posture vs Jeoffrey actually pulling back into his throne when Tywin moves into his personal space, effectively conceding power in the conversation.
I love how Tywin takes up so much of the frame that Joffrey goes from looking like a king on a throne to a toddler in a high chair. That climb up the stairs says so much about Tywin and his respect for Joffrey's "rule".
But Joffrey was right about those dragons
Yeah, he really isn't wrong about anything he's saying in this scene; it's Tywin who is in the wrong, which opens up another layer off this scene:
Just because someone is assertive and confident doesn't necessarily mean they should be trusted on their words.
Actually, they only had rumors. Dragons had been extinct for hundreds of years, hearing rumors of their returning from half a world away is not very good intel.
As the audience we know they were real and growing, but Westeros really had no idea at all. There was no certainty of it.
And from their perspective, even if the rumors were true, they were not formidable yet and could still be easily killed or stolen from Dany.
There was a civil war, there was unrest, there was a lot to be done in Westeros without worrying about rumors from places none of them have ever even seen.
@@Richard_Nickerson True, Tywin literally had every corner of the continent turned against him at that moment. He wouldn't spare his efforts to investigate rumors half the way across the world.
xxplvb a broken clock is right twice a day
@@Richard_Nickerson True, but the ruthless Tywin should have gone for a surviving Targaryan with or without dragons. Maybe he dismissed her because of her gender as not being able to become a threat.
The way Tyson walks up the stairs and stands over joffery.
I can watch Tywin look down on people all day.
Really liked his dynamic and relationship with Arya too.
I also think the older episodes and dialogue within them actually felt like we were watching royalty and people of high birth, you could see their separation from those considered 'below' them, however, in the most recent episodes it feels like everyone is on the same social pecking order simply because D&D wanted to fit as many characters into one scene to please fans. i.e. when literally every character was in the room as Daenerys was making her final battle plans in Winterfell against Kings Landing.
I think a big part of this is the language itself. The aristocratic characters are very careful with their words. There are also parts that almost sound poetic, like Jamie explaining the killing of the mad king to Brienne. We really lost that later, the characters sound like 21st century teenagers in the later seasons.
Just hearing Charles Dance’s assertive, silky baritone makes my whole body tingle.
This and the “what makes a good king?” Scene are my favorites
One of my favourite scenes is with Joffrey and Margorie, when she manipulates him into liking her. Initially he is quite distrustful and tries to antagonise her with questions. You can see how fast she thinks on her feet to find the correct answers. Her words, her tone, her body language, everything is used to make him feel validated and admired. In the end he gives her his own crossbow and teaches her to shoot at a target, so masterfully she duped him into thinking she submits to him.
Joffrey complains about having to climb stairs. Tywin proceeds to climb the stairs.
Even better, Joffrey, the King, complains having to climb the stairs of the tower of the hand. And Tywin, the Hand, walks up the stairs to the Iron Throne to tower over the King. Its an insult. Hidden in the visual subtext of the conversation that again has so much subtext you will not think about the visual.
@TheExplodingChipmunk - watching Joffrey flinch back when Tywin towers over him Is absolute gold. Joffrey may be King, but he clearly understands where the true power lies. This whole conversation is basically a big “Fuck you, you little snot. I can squash you like a little roach if took half a mind to do it!”
"feel free to skip ahead" he says as he plays one of the best scenes in the whole series.
One of my fav scenes!
The actors both understand all of this, too, and deliver the dialogue flawlessly.
And the camera work! Tywin starts out visually small, the grows into a giant when he mounts the steps. Then at the end as he walks away, even though he’s back down on the floor, the camera is low so he still looks huge and Joffrey in the BG looks like a toddler trying to fill out a big boy chair. Pure cinema!
"You are being counselled at this very moment" pretty much sums it all up.
Charles Dance as Tywin Lannister. Pure class. A triumph in acting.
Hearing you break down the intracicies of early seaon GoT dialogue would be great, but I'd rather hear a 15 minute long rant of your love of Tywin. He made the show worth watching. Intelligent dialogue died with him...
The characters of Tywin and Geoffrey experienced something similar to quote of Harvey Dent: "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain." But in the case of many characters in GoT they either die while they are well written or live long enough to be absolutely awful. The characters that D&D invented or rewrote started out awful and only got worse.
@@WakarimasenKa Good lord, can you imagine if D&D wrote a legitimate Game of Thrones fanfic (seasons 6-8 don't count; they shouldn't get the benfit of Lena Heady making their crap look better than it is)? That would be a My Immortal- level clusterfuck, and I would pay so much money to read it. "Sansa painted her nails black and put on TONS of black eyeliner."
@@Silburific "and Jon Snow watched on as everyone did everything interesting AROUND him, because he knew nothing! He's Jon Snow!" ~D&D: GoT fanfic: Chapter 9, opening excerpt draft 3
@@mageside "She's muh queen," he whispered in a brooding tone as he brooded broodily. Behind him, Arya drew her katana and breathed, "Forgive me, master, but I must use the forbidden technique." Then she did a 360 no scope, hurling her blade at Drogon and cutting off his head, and it was like "swoosh!" and there was so much blood, and fire was shooting out of his neck and it was so fucking awesome, you guys!!!
Silburific 17 I dunno, there was some really good dialogue in season 5. There was some terrible stuff (like some of the sandsnake dialogue), but there were also some really good bits of dialogue (Tyrion and Varys talking about futility, Barristan talking about Rhaegar, Stannis saying “whoever said that didn’t have many enemies,” and Mance talking to Jon about why he won’t kneel, just to name a few).
Something interesting that I think works in this is, surprisingly, how small the show made the Iron Throne. With the framing of Tywin towering over Joffrey and, by extension, the throne shows he, Tywin, is more powerful than the chair the entire realm is fighting over and, consequently, everyone who sits in it.
My favorite part of this scene is when Tywin says “you are being counseled at this very moment.” It highlights who is really in control of the conversation and who is the real king here.
3:08, Tywin starts walking up the stairs, cool AF.
Me, having watched the scene a thousand times: “We could arrange to have you carried.”
Tywin: “We could arrange to have you carried.”
Chills. Literal chills.
I'm crying. I now know that I'm not the only one doing this.
@@user-db7om5wu5j THE SHOW WAS SO GOOD BACK THEN
@@luarn9176 don't yell at me. YELL AT DUMB AND DUMBER. *AND BRING ME WITH YOU, I HAVE A FEW CHOICE WORDS I WANNA YELL AT THEM*
@@user-db7om5wu5j Nah, poor guys just aren't as good as Martin. They're terrifically good at adapting his work, don't forget that. I don't think many would be as capable at doing something so daunting.
We should remember that they're people, too. They make mistakes. But they also managed to make a wonderful adaptation of the books. One of the best adaptations in history, I'd say.
@@luarn9176 God the writing was strong then.
"We could arrange to have you carried." - What Tywin said. "Bitch please." - What Tywin meant. He was so amazing. Able to put a psychopath king in his place without even raising his voice.
I had to click because i instantly remembered the scene your mentioning in the thumbnail. It was also one of the scenes that showed joeffrey actually asking questions as a king. Very diverse writing indeed. You cannot even compare it to the whole damn last season...
Good video and great perspective. One thing that's also interesting is the blocking. At first, Tywin is speaking to Joffrey from below, as he intends to criticize Tywin from his "high" position of power, but then moments later, when the conflict arises, Tywin prepares his response by going up the steps of the throne to talk with Joffrey, eliminating Joffrey's only advantage in the scene. Not only is Tywin asserting dominance and authority over Joffrey through his words, but he is also doing it through body language. The entire midsection of the scene, Tywin is towing over Joffrey, talking DOWN to him like the weakling he is. Then finally, as you mentioned, he gets the last word on Joffrey, then walks away, turning his back on his grandson. Great writing and direction.
Joffrey actually ....... had a lot of potential. Tywin would have whipped him into shape
Here’s the problem though. Tywin was not a good ruler. He essentially ruled for the mad king and then later for Joffrey. He was a great ruler for house Lannister and for a kingdom at war. But as a ruler for the small folk and for a kingdom not currently tearing itself to shreds? He’s a monster with no regard for anyone but himself and his house. And his unwillingness to accept Tyrion as his true heir guaranteed that when Tywin died his house would fall apart with no one left to rule it, leaving it in a worse state than when his father ruled. Tywin only believed in Tywin and guaranteed the fall of his house because of it. And let’s not forget Rains of Castamere, or the red wedding
@@joshuah.4496
No he was a good ruler even at peace . He ruled fr decades before the war breakout and was unanimously called one of the best rulers westeros ever had ( everyone saw that he was the one in charge not aeries , which made aeries jealous and contributed to their falling out ) .
not only d&d destroyed game of thrones, they also destroyed dungeon & dragones reputation
Lmfao. Ikr i was confused when I heard “D&D” ruined game of thrones. I had to find out they meant the writers not the game.
sourskittlez_97 lmfao same
on the positive side, they brought the half-forgotten movie "dumb and dumber" back to attention
l h omg! 😂😂😂😂
AND they destroyed dungeons as well as dragons!
That symbolic counter as tywin stepped the stairs to joffreys line "i must climp all the stairs of the tower of the Hand" line.
1. He showed that HE works for his goals, and joffrey should learn that. But he showed him also with his "carry" line, that he is a spoiled Brat.
2. He tooks the highground, his TRUE Position to Joffreys, and where both truly stands.
Superior in every way + one of the best Television scenes ever, because that was a symbolic punchline with more than one Meaning.
Edit: "your grace" the total Destruction line with a pause hole.
This whole scene was basically Tywin telling Joffrey, "I'm in charge now, bitch."