Surprised you didn't touch on Thanos' physical position.. as you did with the cup of food. Choosing the stair inside of throne, giving him same height as Gamora when de does his "reasoning". But towering over her when he moves to lecturing her as a child.
Yeah! Also, Thanos choose not to sit on the throne and sit on the stairs, that portrays his approach with gamora more casual, without his authority as some kind of space warlord, meaning that his relationship with her is more than subordination (and of course it shows that he cares about her thoughts, he didn't sit on the throne because she hates it). That also shows him as a parental figure, lowering themselves in to ground to speak more directly and (in most cases) to show care towards their children.
I noticed this too, and was confused why he didnt touch on it. Another reason why I more often than not think that these online "critics" are simply people making up and spewing bullshit as they go along.
I'm surprised that people are shocked by it. I noticed it the very first time I saw the movie and thought it was obvious he decided to sit on the stairs because of that 🤷🏻♂
Infinity War is easily the best MCU movie in my eyes. It the tightest script I’ve seen in a blockbuster epic all decade-it’s just buttery smooth and paced about as well as a triathlon-runner would manage.
FlynnDWT it is the superior stand alone film. But it is in my opinion, not the superior film. Endgame is far better in delivering payoff to many of the long running MCU films. Both fantastic films. I just think endgame is better when considered what it is (the finale of infinity saga)
Eh, I would say Infinity War was better than Endgame when it comes to CONSTANT ACTION, because that's honestly the only reason people like it so much, because it's constant action, people won't admit it but it is. Endgame is better because it's telling the end of stories, just how Iron Man, Captain America and Thor all started off, they each get a ending that makes sense and fits their characters. Endgame overall just will be the better movie, because it also has more memorable scenes, hence Tony snapping, The portals scene, hulk snapping, Spider-Man coming back, scarlet witch vs thanos.
@@Truly.Quincho If that was the only reason people liked Infinity War, there wouldn't be so many videos praising the dialog scenes where no action is occurring.
@@ManOfAnswers one of the worst endings the series could of possibly had... Corny ass Hollywood ending weve seen 10 trillion times before...... infinitely wars is about 10x the movie endgame is
So Thanos is the antagonist and focal point character? How exactly? He’s the one pushing the story forward. He’s the one with clearly defined goals and motivations. He is the main character, and the one who is having to overcome obstacles (the heroes) in order to achieve his goal. The heroes goal, on the other hand, is simply to stop Thanos from achieving his goal. I would argue that Infinity War is one of the few movies where the villain is the protagonist, and the heroes are the antagonists.
Except that The Dark Knight doesn't tell the story from Joker's perspective, he is the driving force of the movie, but not the viewpoint. One could argue Harvey Dent is. Thanos however is quite clearly the protagonist of IW.
Love the part where thanos says. "I'm the only one who knows that. " not by shouting . But with an expression of frustration and curse. It shows how he truly believes he is right.
My GF:Can't you just stop with your stupid Thanos quotes? Me: *I ignored my destiny once,I cannot do that again...even,for you* My GF: That's it we're done,I'm breaking up with you! Me: *A small price to pay for salvation* My GF:You're insane Me: *Little one it's a simple calculus* My GF:I don't even exist,You just created me so that you could write this comment Me: *Reality can be whenever I want* My GF: _Disintegrates_ Me: *Reality is often disappointing...And is,It was*
@@606danco actually we have no clue if she had a father. She never talks about a father and she isn't portrayed as having a father. It seems like under those circumstances the father would have been at home or that he died in battle against Thanos. But we don't know from the movie... it doesn't tell us.
It also helps to show why Gamora can't convince Thanos he's wrong. He's coming at their issues from a cold calculating "parental" viewpoint. She's approaching from an emotional "child-like" position. It reverses the antagonism, which Thanos just accepts passively. Increasing the sense of Thanos being at rest in this scene.
@@wifine1951 a lot off abusers act hot and cold. They have moments when they are raging at you saying cutting things, and then sitting down and trying to bond with you. It's unsettling. It's like their trying make up for bad behavior. As a child you try to encourage the kinder aspect so it makes you more compliant.
Kell Harris I agree from experience, what you said is very scary because we knew he was horrible, but whenever he would “be at rest” is when he could manipulate us.
When he says, "I'm the only one who knows that," he also looks away from Gamora, which is an interesting acting choice. If the other lines are intended to convince Gamora that what he's doing is right, this line clearly isn't - he's not even looking at her, he's speaking more to himself. I think this accomplishes two things: (1) it shows he's resigned that Gamora will not be swayed, and (2) it shows that just because he's resigning the argument, he isn't resigning his belief. (An argument could also be made that his reaction here is a sign that he does actually feel bad about killing half the universe, and I do think he feels a little bit bad, but I see this scene as firmly about his relationship with Gamora and it makes sense that he'd be so bothered that his favorite daughter doesn't agree with his core defining principle.)
Thanos is so convinced about his beliefs that it frustrates him that someone he cares about can't see what he sees. This frustration also connects to the dialogue when Thanos tells Tony Stark that he isn't the only cursed with knowledge; knowing that he must kill one half to save the other half.
@@Art.imagination does he actually care about Gamora though? I think it's more that he's remembering Titan. What he's doing is about his own grief, not Gamora or any of the people he's "saving". He thinks that if he can do to other planets what he believes should have been done to Titan before it's destruction then the pain of losing Titan inside him will go away. He believes he's being altruistic, but it's all ultimately about himself.
@@sophiejones7727 I'm just going to assume he does care about Gamora based on the fact that he did get the soul stone, which he had to sacrifice some one he loves for it. He just felt that his need to fulfill his mission was more important than his love for Gamora
"There are two reasons why I believe this section of dialogue was changed--" "CAR GURUS!" I hate the endless RUclips ads, but I nearly did a spit take watching that.
I love that he brings her food. That right there hit me as something a patent does to make thier kid feel better. It immediately made me feel like he was a least 10% cool dad. Just try and imagine him doing that for anyone's eyes and it feels wrong. Such a simple thing that gave him a large amount of depth.
My number one aspiration is to have someone make an analysis video about something I've made, talking about how good it is and why. I love these kinds of videos so much, they're so passionate about what they're analyzing and they obviously put a lot of work and thought into it, just from their sheer love of the piece. If I can connect with someone in that way, I have completely and utterly succeeded.
Core Blaster I agree all the way. My life dream is to connect with another, and allow them to understand what I beleive through my writing (and mostly nothing else) getting a video like this would be just a dream come true (if you wanna talk about it just lemme know lol)
@@wilburforce8046 Thats an odd goal. This sounds more like...Writing for fame what you two describe. Is that really what you wanna do? Do you not wanna write to inspire an audience? To create good works of literature? Or to just tell a story and bring it out there?
@@belisarius6949 I want to inspire an audience so hard they make something about it, to create a work so good they want nothing but to share how good it is, and I of course want to make it for its own right. I honestly don't care if that person isn't popular and only has 10 veiws on youtube, if they made a video about it, that means I connected with them. Success. It's not about the fame, it's about inspiring someone to the point to where they share your work and pick it apart to talk about how good it is, it's ok if it doesn't go anywhere though.
@@coreblaster6809 This seems really weird to me. I can see the appeal in having someole acknowledge and review your work, but is this really your ONLY drive for writing?
Great video, except that Thanos is not the antagonist of Infinity Wars; he is the protagonist of that movie specifically. He was a goal and the Avengers stand in opposition to that goal. They are the obstacle for Thanos to overcome.
@@RustyBrickStudios 100%. I really like the way they organized this two-part story like that. Infinity War shows us Thanos the Hero (he even goes on a heroes journey) and Endgame shows us Thanos the Villain.
In Infinity War he even wins in the end, just like a hero/protagonist, and the Avengers have to live with their failure. It's a "happy ending" for Thanos but not for them.
@@HarmonicWave well I see it more of the ending he was trying to acomplish more than a happy ending. Which is guess is what you where impkying with the quotation marks.
The best part of that seamless transition from "antagonist at rest" to not at rest is that the end of the scene flips the table on the rest of it. He never really was at rest. He knew Gamora knew the stone's location when he offered her food and struck up a conversation. He wasn't opening up to anyone, he was interrogating her. He sat down and spoke casually to poke and prode at her to understand her betrayal. And in the end, he drops the act and confronts her about it.
I think your observations about the stilted repetitiveness of Gamora's dialogue is simply uninformed. I'm going to assume that you were not abused as a child, or have had deep relationships with people who were. She sounds EXACTLY like adult victims of childhood abuse. When recalling memories of places and events that were traumatizing words like "hate" and "disgust" are commonly used to describe them. People who have been made to suffer that way also tend to get lost in their own narrative loop, and it makes them seem self-obsessed, even narcissistic; which makes a listener want to dismiss them. Gamora is a damaged character. It's hard to see her that way, especially when held up in contrast to her sister Nebula, whose trauma is obvious and demonstrated often. Her experiences with the Guardians and with Peter Quill in particular have gone a long way towards healing her character, allowing her to trust, and love, and feel deserving of love. But, as is true in real life, all it takes is stepping one foot back into your childhood home, or speaking to someone who hurt you as a child, and you emotionally regress into an earlier state. That's what she was in this scene: a child. Petulant, accusing, throwing bowls and simplifying complex issues. Your videos are usually spot on. But, on that point, I think you missed the mark.
Before replying to the comment, realize it isn’t saying that he is wrong, simply uninformed. They are spot on about this criticism, just know before you reply to them.
The dialogue being spot-on for realism is very true, but its weakness is that it doesn't lend itself to engaging dialogue as well as the version in the final cut of the film. That said, the deleted scene is good. :)
Great video, but I'm not convinced that Thanos was ever genuinely "at rest" in this scene. I don't see this as an event where Thanos' motivation goes from taking care of his daughter to seeking the Soul Stone - his every action in this scene is done to strip Gamora's defenses so that when he reveals that he knows she found it it's easier for him to get the location from her. Parents do this "soft sell" with their kids all the time when they know that the kid has lied about something. Granted, they *usually* don't transition into dismantling the kid's siblings when it comes time for the Hard Sell, but when destroying half of all life in the universe is your idea of a solution it's clear that having any sense of severity is not really in the picture.
You are correct, but his approach was also in his hope that he would be able to win her back to his side. Part of the author's intent of the Soul Stone sacrifice was to show that Thanos *actually* did love Gamorra as a daughter, whether we accept it or not (or rather, whether we accept there is any value in the fatherly "love" of a completely insane being). So the reason he came to speak with her in that manner is that he not only wanted the location of the Soul Stone, but he was hoping that she would also once be his successor in "overseeing" the universe once he retires after the snap(s).
I find it strange in the context of your interpretation of this as a scene of 'antagonist at rest' that you'd object to Gamorra's repeated attempts to focus on his villainy. This is a scene in which he asserts his humanity, and her rejection of that is by means of repeatedly driving home the fact that his methods and goal are reprehensible and all that ultimately matters about him. He is attempting to present himself as 3-dimentional, and she is denying the attempt, asserting that he is in fact only his monstrous worst act. Her struggle in this film has a lot to do with denying that Thanos has any value or humanity, that's he's just a monster - she needs to see him this way because he is her de facto father and she needs to reconcile the goal of his destruction to her feelings. So she asserts that he is ONLY evil. It makes total character and story sense, not despite this being an 'antagonist at rest' scene, but because of it. As for the show-don't-tell criticism, throwing the cup was the only act she was capable of in this scene. She's helpless against him physically. To 'show' by having her make some pointless gesture of violence toward him would only belie her character as a savvy assassin who knows how/when to seize and advantage, and when all she can do is protest verbally.
Thanos is the protagonist, though. That's part of the reason he is the focal character and got the most screen time. This was even confirmed by the writers.
Yes, indeed. The protagonist is not necessarily the "hero" or the good, moral person in a conflict, and the antagonist is not necessarily the "villain".
This was a really insightful video for me. I don't think I have ever seen an analysis comparing different drafts of a scene, but that is *such* an important process in writing. I would really love to see more content like this. Perhaps more deleted scene comparisons or even comparisons of rough and final drafts of your own work?
The best part of the scene imo is that last line at the end. "I'm disappointed. Not because you didn't find it, but because you did....and you lied." It shows that Thanos genuinely does view their relationships as that of a father and daughter, and the true disappointment isn't that she failed, but that she would lie to him. The supervillain's equivalent of the "as long as you try your best, I'll always be proud of you" line parents tell their children.
Your videos are super educational, I appreciate you showing not only what is right about the final scene, but what is wrong about the deleted scene, and why. Keep up the great work!!!!
I really love looking back on these moments in this series. I 'felt' the same about them at the time as I do now but I've been forced to stop and pull them apart to understand why I felt what I did and that knowledge is a gift. Thanks for that.
These dialogue dives are incredibly helpful for analyzing dialogue and “big picture” scene construction. One thing I’d really like to see is the live constructing of a scene that focuses on the details; walking us through the creation of new dialogue and descriptions that push a scene to its conclusion. Questions that such a video might address are: 1. How do I actually navigate this “chessboard” of logic and reason as I write a scene? 2. How do I maintain the believability of a character’s dialogue without allowing my own voice to come through, rather than the character’s? 3. What are some techniques for balancing descriptive text with dialogue? What sorts of descriptions or details are necessary or effective vs which ones are superfluous and should be avoided? Such a video would be an excellent guide for aspiring writers, like myself, who have ideas for scenes or stories, but who struggle with the details of scene construction. As always, I loved the video and clicked the link to help support you, but I can’t wait to actually throw money at you through Patreon. Keep it up!
If you want help with this kind of stuff you just need to remeber 1 expression. From pins to pies. If youve never heard of it or dont know what it means i can tell you how you can experience it. Just find a small group of friends, preferably middle age to older women and just listen to them talk to each other for about an hour. Really listen to them and see how they make connecting conversation topics flow from one to the next as smoothly as silk. Do that a few times and youll learn everything you need to know to understand how to write like this.
I think I can shed a little insight on the chessboard idea. Let's say we want to go into a scene that starts with two characters talking about the weather and end on "I think it's strange that the Death Star had such an easily exploitable weakness". Just jumping from "Hey, how's the weather" to "Good, but I think it's strange that the Death Star..." feels forced and unnatural. That's a jump from a black square to a white square. A good black square would be something like "Looks like it might rain, I was going to go to the park but I think I might have to stay home... maybe watch a movie.". This transitions you in the direction of your target, going from the weather to "a movie". From there, you could transition from "a movie" to "Star Wars" as a black square, but you couldn't jump to your final conclusion just yet, as that would be another white square. Once you're at Star Wars, then you could go on to the whole death star thing. It's all about finding a way to move the conversation from a far-off topic, then closing the distance in as natural a way as possible.
I understand how these things would work. I’m interested in seeing him work through it live. It’d be a long video, but I think it’d be insightful, useful, and would garner a lot of views over time.
I’ve always loved this scene. The conviction in Brolin’s voice when he says “I’m the only one who knows that” has always intrigued me. Great to see a breakdown of what makes it so captivating
I love how Thanos reacts in 14:34. This shows how he really believes his method is the right one and how everyone who questions it haven't seen the whole picture.
" You didn't refuse " That reminds of a piece of dialogue that I consider really bad in this movie Loki says "if you're going to Earth you may need a guide. I have some experience there" Thanos: if you consider failure experience... Loki: I consider experience, experience The God of lies and mischief, ladies and gentlemen. That's how he tries to trick his oponnent... "I consider experience, experience"
I think you're missing Gamora's subtext on those repetitions... She's stuck in a vicious cycle of hate which she began to break when her sister forgave her in "Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 2". However, she needs to get a closure with Thanos, one she knows she'll never gets. That's why she repeats herself, that's why she tells instead of showing: because Thanos won't ever change therefore at this very moment she FEELS stuck... Again... In a vicious cycle of hate. This foreshadows her destiny in the film. Her tragedy.
Great clip. I wish you'd do more Marvel movies. The Russo brothers said that Infinity War was clearly an evil man making the hero's journey. This is very helpful re Demona.
The problem with thanos mindset “mathematically” is it doesn’t account for an important variable: “if life is left unchecked”. He takes it to mean that all forms of life will only ever continue to grow and grow without regarding its own growth and acting accordingly to ensure its collective survival. Maybe if he were talking about animals he’d have a point but intelligent life has the capability of making those decisions on their own, and whether they do it correctly or not, or disregard entirely, is to be left to them, not some genocidal Grimace with survivor’s guilt.
This scene is even more interesting now that _Eternals_ is out. If it's still canon that Thanos himself is an Eternal or of an Eternal lineage, then it makes even more sense why he thinks this is the only way to save the population of the universe. Especially that line where he says _"I'm the only one that does. Or at least, I'm the only one with the will to act on it."_ He probably saw first hand his part to play in what the Celestials consider the natural order of the universe and he couldn't get any of the other Eternals to see his viewpoint, thus resulting in his "home planet" being destroyed. Basically, from Thanos' point of view, he is a Red Pill amongst the other Eternals, who are the Blue Pills. And thus, he is the only Eternal at the time with the will to be more than he was bred to be.
Great video! One nitpick: you said Thanos is doing the right things for the wrong reasons. Isn't he actually doing the wrong things for the right reasons? (Killing half the population = the wrong thing, because he wants the remaining population to prosper = a good reason). Seems like a small correction, but it's good to look at both possibilities when writing a villain.
It can be viewed as "saving worlds from destruction by overpopulation+exhaustion of resourses"(the right thing) And "believing that by killing half of the populations, the problem would be solved, and is action that must be repeated from time to time" (the wrong reason).
These dialogue dives are fantastic, and so useful for writing. Thank you! I'd be really interested to see a dialogue dive on Steel Magnolias. I'm really curious as to whether the emotional intensity is performance driven or if the writing is the key from your perspective. Thanks again.
I.W. is a masterpiece in efficiency, its ability to convey so many story lines and remain engaging and comprehensive is quite brilliant and should get more acknowledgment
I love it. I'm a writer myself and I love the way you broke this down. I have been struggling to make my characters protagonist and antagonist. But I realized that it wasn't about knowing how to do individuals just themselves and work from within to create depth and then put goals up to their own beliefs. That make the story.
7:07 What you're saying is true, but there's another side to that- being raised by a violent and overpowering presence makes you into a 7 year old child every time you're in that presence for the rest of your life. Children throw things. Children say "I hate you", "I hate this", "I hate that".
Hey Savage Books, I want to let you know that you make great videos and you've inspired me to start my own RUclips Channel where I can also talk about movies. Thank you so much for the inspiration! Keep up the great work!
I love this man. I'm new to all of this but as a consumer I know what to look for and the way you break things down but educate is a skill not many can master. Keep doing what you're doing man🤩
I don't think this scene makes Thanos sympathetic as much as it uses a "rational parent vs angry child" dynamic to reveal how Thanos's stifling, arrogant paternalism is at the core of everything he does. Thanos has convinced himself of the inevitability of Malthusian catastrophe, and believes deep down that what he is doing is therefore rational and in the best interest of the universe at large. Anyone who disagrees with him is, in his eyes, a naive child who allows their emotions to cloud their judgement. The best exchange of the scene - "You don't know that!" "I'm the only one who knows that." - works so well because Brolin's calm but slightly exasperated delivery implies that this is an argument he's dealt with many, many times before, and he is perhaps a bit impatient that Gamora hasn't yet "caught up to him". He respects her stubborn resolve, but sees her defiance as misguided. The irony is that Thanos's egoism is exactly why he is the misguided one; he's used to "being right", and sees absolutely everything else through that lens. Because of that, this whole exchange also helps justify why he was able to receive the Soul Stone. His offering of food and soft-spokenness, while lecturing about "correcting" the universe and turning Gamora into "the fiercest woman in the galaxy", shows that Thanos believes the best kind of parenting involves a heavy dose of "tough love". To Thanos, life is painful, tragic, and difficult, but can be tamed through sheer dominance and willpower. He sees and loves those qualities in Gamora. And even though it's a kind of narcissistic love (loving her for the ways she resembles him), because he truly believes he has done what is best for her, he truly believes he loves her. It is a sick, broken, self-centered love, but it's the depth of sacrifice that was important, and to Thanos this was the greatest sacrifice he could make.
The beginning sets up the parent child relationship. Parents/Teachers recognize a child lost in emotion; the repetition of the word hate is like the cup, thrown around to hurt his feelings as much as the throwing of the cup is to break it.
I wish you would do deeper cuts. Ive been binging these and u make amazing points and observations but the video ends just as the discussion is getting really good. Deep cuts would be awesome. Maybe im selfish though haha
Thanos, Deadpool & Death love triangle is one of my favourite Marvel things. I hope we will see Death in Deadpool 3. Also the love between Wade and Spiderman!
This was an amazing video. I would love a video on the change of perspective between Infinity War and Endgame. I felt a much different Thanos in that one, and I would enjoy a dive analysis very much.
"...his motivations could not be as simple as personal gain....or hooking up with Death but we're not gonna talk about that." LOL, I about spit out my drink when I heard that. XD
Haven’t finished the whole video yet, but the best part of the scene for me is how after Gamora states she hates the chair, he chooses to sit on the steps instead. It goes to show how Thanos does care about Gamora in a way and helps solidify the possibility of obtaining the soul stone
“I’m the only one who knows that.., at least I’m the only one with the will to act on it” OH CRAP THAT WAS HOT AND SO WELL SAID, I ALMOST AGREED WITH THANOS FOR THE REST OF THE MOVIE UGGHGGHH AMAZING
I know I’m completely unqualified to rebut your initial take on Gamora in this scene, but allow me to throw this bone... There’s a brief glimpse of Thanos as she’s rambling about her hatred. You see his face slump in both sadness that every memory he cherishes with her she hates, but you also see a bit of pain. He’s a little hurt that in this small moment he cannot even sit down with what he considers a beloved daughter. His “favorite” daughter as referenced in GOTG. I can see why they chose to make her go on a bit of a ramble there. She’s recalling everything about that place. She’s feeling it all over again. She can only muster up the word hate because it’s how she feels. She really wants to say “I always hated you” but she can’t. She loves him despite her hatred of everything about him and what he’s done. This moment of rambling both makes sense for her character and gives us a reason to have a brief look at Thanos and see emotion in him while she rambles in the background. I don’t think this could’ve been done any better honestly. It gets the trip down the memory road from hell we’d expect her to have being on the ship again out of the way, adds some emotional weight to Thanos as many fathers can relate to when their daughter is deeply upset and says some things that really cut deep right when you’re happiest to see them and finally it sets the stage nicely for the dialogue that will follow. The discussion that reveals his reasoning. To me this scene does lift Gamora. While she’s had some feats before this, she’d been dwindled down to a typical romancing heroine after short stint on screen as a heartless warrior. Here you see her stand firm in her tone, posture and words against Thanos. Ronan’s lips trembled as Thanos turned around. Hulk was just knocked out with just a few well placed punches and Loki the main villain of the first avengers singlehandedly strangled to death in the air. We haven’t seen anyone talk to him this way until now. When he grimaced in emotional pain as she verbally tore him down it was jarring because we’d expect him to react in anger. Instead we see this Titan powerless to the dismay of Gamora. That’s damn good writing. I have no idea why the writers for this film decided ditch the original narrative where Thanos actually did save her as a child from Ronan’s assault on the planet. In that case she had actual cherished memories of Christmas and celebrations. Birthdays and so on. I do appreciate how fatherly they make him here and how bold they paint Gamora. They set Thanos up to appear deeply hurt by her words. He is. He’s soft for her. She means much to him. It is all once more a nice set up. When he decides to be ruthless and brutal to nebula just one scene later she caves. That gives a glimpse into how he’d have managed to keep such a bold Gamora in line all these years. Manipulation. Emotional manipulation, which then gives a retrospective understanding on her initial mumbling of hate in the beginning of this entire sequence.
14:49 Actually the character he reminds me of most here is Light Yagami from Death Note. What’s interesting is that they both believe they are uniquely able to achieve their goals, not because of their strength (in Thanos’ case) or their intelligence (in Light’s case) but because they believe no one else would have the stomach to do all the reprehensible things necessary. They view themselves as a martyr because they think the guilt they have to shoulder makes *them* the real victim of their plans of mass murder. They believe that their willingness to do horrible things in the service of their ideological goal is actually a virtue.
You should really try doing dialogue dives for JoJo Part 7: Steel Ball Run I mean, now that I think about it, Funny Valentine's dialogue manages to simultaneously employ Antagonist at Rest while also unknowingly still preventing a protagonist from fulfilling their goal
6:44 I disagree. If she hadn’t said I hated that chair, I’d have thought she threw the bowl just to spite Thanos or to say “see what I’m gonna do to your bowl, take that” to act rebellious, careless just to show disrespect for Thanos.
I really consider Thanos giving Gamora food in this scene the most important part of the movie because it shows that he really does overall cares and loves for her and that made him killing her much more heart-wrenching. Actions speak louder than words.
At 5:17 I think it’s ok because she couldn’t do much else to express her hatred of his throne. Plus it shows that she would rather just die instead of being there, I think there’s more to analyze there than just her dialogue. Her expression says a lot more than her words as she doesn’t even look at thanos while saying it.
Surprised you didn't touch on Thanos' physical position.. as you did with the cup of food.
Choosing the stair inside of throne, giving him same height as Gamora when de does his "reasoning".
But towering over her when he moves to lecturing her as a child.
Yeah! Also, Thanos choose not to sit on the throne and sit on the stairs, that portrays his approach with gamora more casual, without his authority as some kind of space warlord, meaning that his relationship with her is more than subordination (and of course it shows that he cares about her thoughts, he didn't sit on the throne because she hates it).
That also shows him as a parental figure, lowering themselves in to ground to speak more directly and (in most cases) to show care towards their children.
@@nopatiencejoe6376 An awesome moment of visual storytelling
Howard Boen Ahhh that's so sweet
I noticed this too, and was confused why he didnt touch on it. Another reason why I more often than not think that these online "critics" are simply people making up and spewing bullshit as they go along.
@@kingvince7328 Wow! Violent words...
Notice how gamora said she hates the throne, so he sits on the stairs instead of the throne
Oh shit good eye
Dang, didn't notice that.
yes we all saw the movie
I'm surprised that people are shocked by it. I noticed it the very first time I saw the movie and thought it was obvious he decided to sit on the stairs because of that 🤷🏻♂
@@hecdavid11 Well I just noticed it.
Oh my god Pre-rendered thanos is terrifying
A thing of nightmares
You got to give it to marvel for giving so much effort to Thanos.
no he is not
Thanos Prune
Love it lol!
Can we acknowledge how sad thanos sounds when he brings her food? It’s like he knows she hates him and it breaks his heart.
He does know and it does. Thanos did nothing wrong.
@@tryhardfinessedyou bruh
Infinity War is easily the best MCU movie in my eyes. It the tightest script I’ve seen in a blockbuster epic all decade-it’s just buttery smooth and paced about as well as a triathlon-runner would manage.
Leagues above Endgame... which was good in a way... but Infinity War was just so much better
FlynnDWT it is the superior stand alone film. But it is in my opinion, not the superior film. Endgame is far better in delivering payoff to many of the long running MCU films. Both fantastic films. I just think endgame is better when considered what it is (the finale of infinity saga)
Eh, I would say Infinity War was better than Endgame when it comes to CONSTANT ACTION, because that's honestly the only reason people like it so much, because it's constant action, people won't admit it but it is. Endgame is better because it's telling the end of stories, just how Iron Man, Captain America and Thor all started off, they each get a ending that makes sense and fits their characters. Endgame overall just will be the better movie, because it also has more memorable scenes, hence Tony snapping, The portals scene, hulk snapping, Spider-Man coming back, scarlet witch vs thanos.
@@Truly.Quincho If that was the only reason people liked Infinity War, there wouldn't be so many videos praising the dialog scenes where no action is occurring.
@@ManOfAnswers one of the worst endings the series could of possibly had... Corny ass Hollywood ending weve seen 10 trillion times before...... infinitely wars is about 10x the movie endgame is
So Thanos is the antagonist and focal point character? How exactly?
He’s the one pushing the story forward. He’s the one with clearly defined goals and motivations. He is the main character, and the one who is having to overcome obstacles (the heroes) in order to achieve his goal.
The heroes goal, on the other hand, is simply to stop Thanos from achieving his goal.
I would argue that Infinity War is one of the few movies where the villain is the protagonist, and the heroes are the antagonists.
I could also see this applying to the Joker from the dark knight.
Except that The Dark Knight doesn't tell the story from Joker's perspective, he is the driving force of the movie, but not the viewpoint. One could argue Harvey Dent is.
Thanos however is quite clearly the protagonist of IW.
Yes. Also this movie is the 2nd act of a 3 act story about the Infinity Stones.
James Nelson which movie is the first act?
@@krantuckety4849 Not one movie was the 1st act. All the movies before Infinity War was the 1st act.
Love the part where thanos says. "I'm the only one who knows that. " not by shouting . But with an expression of frustration and curse. It shows how he truly believes he is right.
My GF:Can't you just stop with your stupid Thanos quotes?
Me: *I ignored my destiny once,I cannot do that again...even,for you*
My GF: That's it we're done,I'm breaking up with you!
Me: *A small price to pay for salvation*
My GF:You're insane
Me: *Little one it's a simple calculus*
My GF:I don't even exist,You just created me so that you could write this comment
Me: *Reality can be whenever I want*
My GF: _Disintegrates_
Me: *Reality is often disappointing...And is,It was*
This comment is gold.
*Applause*
This was perfectly balanced.....
@@mrmushin1 Thanks.
My GF: *comes back from death* I AM INEVITABLE
Me: So, now you talk by quoting Thanos as well?
My GF: You're not the only one cursed with knowledge
Gamora's dialogue may be simple and repetitive, but I think it is fitting well if you see her as a "child" facing off her imposing father.
Anon28 she is not her father just a dude who killed her parents and took her with him
@@606danco actually we have no clue if she had a father. She never talks about a father and she isn't portrayed as having a father. It seems like under those circumstances the father would have been at home or that he died in battle against Thanos. But we don't know from the movie... it doesn't tell us.
@@606danco yeah I know, forgot to add the " " marks. Even more reason for her to fear him. Cheers
It also helps to show why Gamora can't convince Thanos he's wrong. He's coming at their issues from a cold calculating "parental" viewpoint. She's approaching from an emotional "child-like" position. It reverses the antagonism, which Thanos just accepts passively. Increasing the sense of Thanos being at rest in this scene.
Exactly. Thanos has a messiah complex. He sees everyone as a child regardless of their age.
Step 1 : Name that video "One Marvelous Scene"
Step 2 : Send It To "Nando v Movies"
Step 3 : Enjoy the popularity you deserve
This is actually a good point
I like this idea
Being at rest is also important to show how he is abusive. Abusers will do terrible things and then try to make up for it by being caring and nice.
could you elaborate more?
@@wifine1951 a lot off abusers act hot and cold. They have moments when they are raging at you saying cutting things, and then sitting down and trying to bond with you. It's unsettling. It's like their trying make up for bad behavior. As a child you try to encourage the kinder aspect so it makes you more compliant.
Thate the scariest part
Kell Harris I agree from experience, what you said is very scary because we knew he was horrible, but whenever he would “be at rest” is when he could manipulate us.
Sound my biological family members yelled and screaming at each other's.
When he says, "I'm the only one who knows that," he also looks away from Gamora, which is an interesting acting choice. If the other lines are intended to convince Gamora that what he's doing is right, this line clearly isn't - he's not even looking at her, he's speaking more to himself. I think this accomplishes two things: (1) it shows he's resigned that Gamora will not be swayed, and (2) it shows that just because he's resigning the argument, he isn't resigning his belief.
(An argument could also be made that his reaction here is a sign that he does actually feel bad about killing half the universe, and I do think he feels a little bit bad, but I see this scene as firmly about his relationship with Gamora and it makes sense that he'd be so bothered that his favorite daughter doesn't agree with his core defining principle.)
It also shows that he is in pain. He is looking away to hide that pain.
Thanos is so convinced about his beliefs that it frustrates him that someone he cares about can't see what he sees. This frustration also connects to the dialogue when Thanos tells Tony Stark that he isn't the only cursed with knowledge; knowing that he must kill one half to save the other half.
@@Art.imagination does he actually care about Gamora though? I think it's more that he's remembering Titan. What he's doing is about his own grief, not Gamora or any of the people he's "saving". He thinks that if he can do to other planets what he believes should have been done to Titan before it's destruction then the pain of losing Titan inside him will go away. He believes he's being altruistic, but it's all ultimately about himself.
@@sophiejones7727 I'm just going to assume he does care about Gamora based on the fact that he did get the soul stone, which he had to sacrifice some one he loves for it. He just felt that his need to fulfill his mission was more important than his love for Gamora
DvDO7
He felt it as a natural evil
A patient father. He doesn't raise his voice, its slow and calm. A father speaking to his child. Thanks for the vid. Love thanos.
yeah man parents literally can learn from Thanos no joke.
how to parent: thanos with gamora
how not to parent: thanos with nebula
@@georginho36 My favorite tip was when he threw Gamora off a cliff. Teach that snot nosed brat to pull a knife on him.
He literally murders her later in the movie 💀
"There are two reasons why I believe this section of dialogue was changed--"
"CAR GURUS!"
I hate the endless RUclips ads, but I nearly did a spit take watching that.
Your voice is that of melted chocolate being poured on butter: sweet, salty and a nightmare to get out of the carpeting
will steal that line I'm sorry
This imaging is very disconcerting, yet provocative
r/cursedcomments
I am confused.. do you like his voice or not?
Rony Orobio yes
Ugh, that bright white frame around the dark cinema images. Hurts my eyes.
IKR
You got me there. After seeing your Batman: The Dark Knight's analysis about the Joker's dialogue. I'll be patiently waiting for every new update.
I love that he brings her food. That right there hit me as something a patent does to make thier kid feel better. It immediately made me feel like he was a least 10% cool dad. Just try and imagine him doing that for anyone's eyes and it feels wrong. Such a simple thing that gave him a large amount of depth.
I love these Analysis videos. Analysing the great works of others and see what made them good is a really good help to grow as a writer myself.
My number one aspiration is to have someone make an analysis video about something I've made, talking about how good it is and why.
I love these kinds of videos so much, they're so passionate about what they're analyzing and they obviously put a lot of work and thought into it, just from their sheer love of the piece.
If I can connect with someone in that way, I have completely and utterly succeeded.
Core Blaster I agree all the way. My life dream is to connect with another, and allow them to understand what I beleive through my writing (and mostly nothing else) getting a video like this would be just a dream come true (if you wanna talk about it just lemme know lol)
@@wilburforce8046 Thats an odd goal. This sounds more like...Writing for fame what you two describe. Is that really what you wanna do?
Do you not wanna write to inspire an audience? To create good works of literature? Or to just tell a story and bring it out there?
@@belisarius6949 I want to inspire an audience so hard they make something about it, to create a work so good they want nothing but to share how good it is, and I of course want to make it for its own right.
I honestly don't care if that person isn't popular and only has 10 veiws on youtube, if they made a video about it, that means I connected with them. Success.
It's not about the fame, it's about inspiring someone to the point to where they share your work and pick it apart to talk about how good it is, it's ok if it doesn't go anywhere though.
@@coreblaster6809 This seems really weird to me. I can see the appeal in having someole acknowledge and review your work, but is this really your ONLY drive for writing?
15:28
Not right thing for wrong reason, but wrong thing for right reason.
Knowing it's bad, but thinking it's necessary.
Great video, except that Thanos is not the antagonist of Infinity Wars; he is the protagonist of that movie specifically. He was a goal and the Avengers stand in opposition to that goal. They are the obstacle for Thanos to overcome.
@@RustyBrickStudios 100%. I really like the way they organized this two-part story like that. Infinity War shows us Thanos the Hero (he even goes on a heroes journey) and Endgame shows us Thanos the Villain.
In Infinity War he even wins in the end, just like a hero/protagonist, and the Avengers have to live with their failure. It's a "happy ending" for Thanos but not for them.
@@HarmonicWave well I see it more of the ending he was trying to acomplish more than a happy ending. Which is guess is what you where impkying with the quotation marks.
The best part of that seamless transition from "antagonist at rest" to not at rest is that the end of the scene flips the table on the rest of it. He never really was at rest. He knew Gamora knew the stone's location when he offered her food and struck up a conversation. He wasn't opening up to anyone, he was interrogating her. He sat down and spoke casually to poke and prode at her to understand her betrayal. And in the end, he drops the act and confronts her about it.
To me the deepest most impactful scene is when peter quill asks about kevin bacon in footloose. He's so removed he doesn't have any clue.
I think your observations about the stilted repetitiveness of Gamora's dialogue is simply uninformed. I'm going to assume that you were not abused as a child, or have had deep relationships with people who were. She sounds EXACTLY like adult victims of childhood abuse. When recalling memories of places and events that were traumatizing words like "hate" and "disgust" are commonly used to describe them. People who have been made to suffer that way also tend to get lost in their own narrative loop, and it makes them seem self-obsessed, even narcissistic; which makes a listener want to dismiss them. Gamora is a damaged character. It's hard to see her that way, especially when held up in contrast to her sister Nebula, whose trauma is obvious and demonstrated often. Her experiences with the Guardians and with Peter Quill in particular have gone a long way towards healing her character, allowing her to trust, and love, and feel deserving of love. But, as is true in real life, all it takes is stepping one foot back into your childhood home, or speaking to someone who hurt you as a child, and you emotionally regress into an earlier state. That's what she was in this scene: a child. Petulant, accusing, throwing bowls and simplifying complex issues.
Your videos are usually spot on. But, on that point, I think you missed the mark.
Great comment
Before replying to the comment, realize it isn’t saying that he is wrong, simply uninformed. They are spot on about this criticism, just know before you reply to them.
I felt the same
Count Duckula Wow, your comment actually opened my eyes and helped me understand the behaviour of someone I used to know.
The dialogue being spot-on for realism is very true, but its weakness is that it doesn't lend itself to engaging dialogue as well as the version in the final cut of the film. That said, the deleted scene is good. :)
Great video, but I'm not convinced that Thanos was ever genuinely "at rest" in this scene. I don't see this as an event where Thanos' motivation goes from taking care of his daughter to seeking the Soul Stone - his every action in this scene is done to strip Gamora's defenses so that when he reveals that he knows she found it it's easier for him to get the location from her. Parents do this "soft sell" with their kids all the time when they know that the kid has lied about something. Granted, they *usually* don't transition into dismantling the kid's siblings when it comes time for the Hard Sell, but when destroying half of all life in the universe is your idea of a solution it's clear that having any sense of severity is not really in the picture.
You are correct, but his approach was also in his hope that he would be able to win her back to his side.
Part of the author's intent of the Soul Stone sacrifice was to show that Thanos *actually* did love Gamorra as a daughter, whether we accept it or not (or rather, whether we accept there is any value in the fatherly "love" of a completely insane being).
So the reason he came to speak with her in that manner is that he not only wanted the location of the Soul Stone, but he was hoping that she would also once be his successor in "overseeing" the universe once he retires after the snap(s).
I find it strange in the context of your interpretation of this as a scene of 'antagonist at rest' that you'd object to Gamorra's repeated attempts to focus on his villainy. This is a scene in which he asserts his humanity, and her rejection of that is by means of repeatedly driving home the fact that his methods and goal are reprehensible and all that ultimately matters about him. He is attempting to present himself as 3-dimentional, and she is denying the attempt, asserting that he is in fact only his monstrous worst act. Her struggle in this film has a lot to do with denying that Thanos has any value or humanity, that's he's just a monster - she needs to see him this way because he is her de facto father and she needs to reconcile the goal of his destruction to her feelings. So she asserts that he is ONLY evil. It makes total character and story sense, not despite this being an 'antagonist at rest' scene, but because of it.
As for the show-don't-tell criticism, throwing the cup was the only act she was capable of in this scene. She's helpless against him physically. To 'show' by having her make some pointless gesture of violence toward him would only belie her character as a savvy assassin who knows how/when to seize and advantage, and when all she can do is protest verbally.
Thanos is the protagonist, though. That's part of the reason he is the focal character and got the most screen time.
This was even confirmed by the writers.
Yes, indeed. The protagonist is not necessarily the "hero" or the good, moral person in a conflict, and the antagonist is not necessarily the "villain".
He even wins in the end, like a protagonist usually does.
This was a really insightful video for me. I don't think I have ever seen an analysis comparing different drafts of a scene, but that is *such* an important process in writing. I would really love to see more content like this. Perhaps more deleted scene comparisons or even comparisons of rough and final drafts of your own work?
The best part of the scene imo is that last line at the end. "I'm disappointed. Not because you didn't find it, but because you did....and you lied."
It shows that Thanos genuinely does view their relationships as that of a father and daughter, and the true disappointment isn't that she failed, but that she would lie to him. The supervillain's equivalent of the "as long as you try your best, I'll always be proud of you" line parents tell their children.
Your videos are super educational, I appreciate you showing not only what is right about the final scene, but what is wrong about the deleted scene, and why. Keep up the great work!!!!
I really love looking back on these moments in this series. I 'felt' the same about them at the time as I do now but I've been forced to stop and pull them apart to understand why I felt what I did and that knowledge is a gift. Thanks for that.
These dialogue dives are incredibly helpful for analyzing dialogue and “big picture” scene construction. One thing I’d really like to see is the live constructing of a scene that focuses on the details; walking us through the creation of new dialogue and descriptions that push a scene to its conclusion. Questions that such a video might address are:
1. How do I actually navigate this “chessboard” of logic and reason as I write a scene?
2. How do I maintain the believability of a character’s dialogue without allowing my own voice to come through, rather than the character’s?
3. What are some techniques for balancing descriptive text with dialogue? What sorts of descriptions or details are necessary or effective vs which ones are superfluous and should be avoided?
Such a video would be an excellent guide for aspiring writers, like myself, who have ideas for scenes or stories, but who struggle with the details of scene construction.
As always, I loved the video and clicked the link to help support you, but I can’t wait to actually throw money at you through Patreon. Keep it up!
If you want help with this kind of stuff you just need to remeber 1 expression. From pins to pies. If youve never heard of it or dont know what it means i can tell you how you can experience it. Just find a small group of friends, preferably middle age to older women and just listen to them talk to each other for about an hour. Really listen to them and see how they make connecting conversation topics flow from one to the next as smoothly as silk. Do that a few times and youll learn everything you need to know to understand how to write like this.
I think I can shed a little insight on the chessboard idea. Let's say we want to go into a scene that starts with two characters talking about the weather and end on "I think it's strange that the Death Star had such an easily exploitable weakness".
Just jumping from "Hey, how's the weather" to "Good, but I think it's strange that the Death Star..." feels forced and unnatural. That's a jump from a black square to a white square. A good black square would be something like "Looks like it might rain, I was going to go to the park but I think I might have to stay home... maybe watch a movie.". This transitions you in the direction of your target, going from the weather to "a movie". From there, you could transition from "a movie" to "Star Wars" as a black square, but you couldn't jump to your final conclusion just yet, as that would be another white square. Once you're at Star Wars, then you could go on to the whole death star thing. It's all about finding a way to move the conversation from a far-off topic, then closing the distance in as natural a way as possible.
I understand how these things would work. I’m interested in seeing him work through it live.
It’d be a long video, but I think it’d be insightful, useful, and would garner a lot of views over time.
The chess/checker board analogy of moving through a scene was something I'd never really considered before. 👍👍
This does bring a smile on my face
I am here to absorb the knowledge. Thank you for this!
5:44 i have flashbacks of Jon Snow saying: She is my queen
Muh qween
Daniel Ruiz I don’t want it, I never did 🤮
Do the Endgame Thanos speech before the final battle. I really liked it but curious to see what you think.
*thonos not thanos
@@biblebot3947 I reject your hypothesis filmento
SCP 055 Thanos
@@urayoanruiz6780 *thonos
@@urayoanruiz6780 lol 😂 dude... His doing a voice, can't you hear?!
I feel like when Thanos said “And you lied.” Such a dad thing to say.
I’ve always loved this scene. The conviction in Brolin’s voice when he says “I’m the only one who knows that” has always intrigued me. Great to see a breakdown of what makes it so captivating
I love how Thanos reacts in 14:34. This shows how he really believes his method is the right one and how everyone who questions it haven't seen the whole picture.
Awesome breakdown! Movie Thanos is one of my favorite villains ever, the way the write him was so great!
" You didn't refuse "
That reminds of a piece of dialogue that I consider really bad in this movie
Loki says "if you're going to Earth you may need a guide. I have some experience there"
Thanos: if you consider failure experience...
Loki: I consider experience, experience
The God of lies and mischief, ladies and gentlemen. That's how he tries to trick his oponnent... "I consider experience, experience"
I.....don't understand. Could you elaborate more?
@@goldenapplesaga5446 you just need to read it a few times, i couldnt get it at first either
Emm Katt I did read it a bunch... I’ve concluded that it’s not meant to make sense.
@@blueberryblues5644 it does make sense
@@emmkatt Then please explain because I'm really freaking lost
Please reconsider the white frame/bg, thank you
I liked the scene between Rocket and Thor. It showed growth and depth
Dive the "Dark Knight" final conflict scene where the Joker is hanging upside-down, and explaining his ace in the hole!
I think you're missing Gamora's subtext on those repetitions... She's stuck in a vicious cycle of hate which she began to break when her sister forgave her in "Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 2". However, she needs to get a closure with Thanos, one she knows she'll never gets. That's why she repeats herself, that's why she tells instead of showing: because Thanos won't ever change therefore at this very moment she FEELS stuck... Again... In a vicious cycle of hate.
This foreshadows her destiny in the film. Her tragedy.
Thorough exposition. Superior analysis. Superb editing. Great presentation.
Thanos is the protagonist of Infinity War.
I didn’t know this term “antagonist at rest”, but now that you’ve mentioned it, I realize they make for some of my favorite scenes
The deleted scene is very interesting! It allows us to see how Thanos would have looked if he was part of the DCEU!
Great clip. I wish you'd do more Marvel movies. The Russo brothers said that Infinity War was clearly an evil man making the hero's journey. This is very helpful re Demona.
Awesome work right there, my dude!
Top quality analysis!
Please, keep it up
The problem with thanos mindset “mathematically” is it doesn’t account for an important variable: “if life is left unchecked”. He takes it to mean that all forms of life will only ever continue to grow and grow without regarding its own growth and acting accordingly to ensure its collective survival. Maybe if he were talking about animals he’d have a point but intelligent life has the capability of making those decisions on their own, and whether they do it correctly or not, or disregard entirely, is to be left to them, not some genocidal Grimace with survivor’s guilt.
12:56 That Mr. Crabs edit is perfection.
This scene is even more interesting now that _Eternals_ is out.
If it's still canon that Thanos himself is an Eternal or of an Eternal lineage, then it makes even more sense why he thinks this is the only way to save the population of the universe. Especially that line where he says _"I'm the only one that does. Or at least, I'm the only one with the will to act on it."_ He probably saw first hand his part to play in what the Celestials consider the natural order of the universe and he couldn't get any of the other Eternals to see his viewpoint, thus resulting in his "home planet" being destroyed.
Basically, from Thanos' point of view, he is a Red Pill amongst the other Eternals, who are the Blue Pills. And thus, he is the only Eternal at the time with the will to be more than he was bred to be.
Great video! One nitpick: you said Thanos is doing the right things for the wrong reasons. Isn't he actually doing the wrong things for the right reasons? (Killing half the population = the wrong thing, because he wants the remaining population to prosper = a good reason). Seems like a small correction, but it's good to look at both possibilities when writing a villain.
It can be viewed as "saving worlds from destruction by overpopulation+exhaustion of resourses"(the right thing)
And "believing that by killing half of the populations, the problem would be solved, and is action that must be repeated from time to time" (the wrong reason).
Congrats, you have a signature video series now.
These dialogue dives are fantastic, and so useful for writing. Thank you! I'd be really interested to see a dialogue dive on Steel Magnolias. I'm really curious as to whether the emotional intensity is performance driven or if the writing is the key from your perspective. Thanks again.
I.W. is a masterpiece in efficiency, its ability to convey so many story lines and remain engaging and comprehensive is quite brilliant and should get more acknowledgment
Excellent break-down of the dialogue. I love the chess-board analogy you used for the dialogue - it's an image I must keep in mind when writing.
I love it. I'm a writer myself and I love the way you broke this down. I have been struggling to make my characters protagonist and antagonist. But I realized that it wasn't about knowing how to do individuals just themselves and work from within to create depth and then put goals up to their own beliefs. That make the story.
Hey just letting you you know that I love your videos, keep up the great work man!
Dialogue dive Spider-Man homecoming vulture and peter talk in car
Yes! I love Homecoming!
Justin Showalter or the roof top/ bar scene in Far From Home
7:07
What you're saying is true, but there's another side to that- being raised by a violent and overpowering presence makes you into a 7 year old child every time you're in that presence for the rest of your life. Children throw things. Children say "I hate you", "I hate this", "I hate that".
Hey Savage Books, I want to let you know that you make great videos and you've inspired me to start my own RUclips Channel where I can also talk about movies. Thank you so much for the inspiration! Keep up the great work!
I love this man. I'm new to all of this but as a consumer I know what to look for and the way you break things down but educate is a skill not many can master. Keep doing what you're doing man🤩
I don't think this scene makes Thanos sympathetic as much as it uses a "rational parent vs angry child" dynamic to reveal how Thanos's stifling, arrogant paternalism is at the core of everything he does. Thanos has convinced himself of the inevitability of Malthusian catastrophe, and believes deep down that what he is doing is therefore rational and in the best interest of the universe at large. Anyone who disagrees with him is, in his eyes, a naive child who allows their emotions to cloud their judgement. The best exchange of the scene - "You don't know that!" "I'm the only one who knows that." - works so well because Brolin's calm but slightly exasperated delivery implies that this is an argument he's dealt with many, many times before, and he is perhaps a bit impatient that Gamora hasn't yet "caught up to him". He respects her stubborn resolve, but sees her defiance as misguided. The irony is that Thanos's egoism is exactly why he is the misguided one; he's used to "being right", and sees absolutely everything else through that lens.
Because of that, this whole exchange also helps justify why he was able to receive the Soul Stone. His offering of food and soft-spokenness, while lecturing about "correcting" the universe and turning Gamora into "the fiercest woman in the galaxy", shows that Thanos believes the best kind of parenting involves a heavy dose of "tough love". To Thanos, life is painful, tragic, and difficult, but can be tamed through sheer dominance and willpower. He sees and loves those qualities in Gamora. And even though it's a kind of narcissistic love (loving her for the ways she resembles him), because he truly believes he has done what is best for her, he truly believes he loves her. It is a sick, broken, self-centered love, but it's the depth of sacrifice that was important, and to Thanos this was the greatest sacrifice he could make.
Thanos doesn't really want to save the universe, he just wants to be acknowledged for being right; he just refuses to believe something so petty.
Thanos is my favorite character in the MCU, he's the only one that doesn't get corrupted by absolute power.
The beginning sets up the parent child relationship. Parents/Teachers recognize a child lost in emotion; the repetition of the word hate is like the cup, thrown around to hurt his feelings as much as the throwing of the cup is to break it.
Love these dissection and insights! Thank you again for the great content
I wish you would do deeper cuts. Ive been binging these and u make amazing points and observations but the video ends just as the discussion is getting really good. Deep cuts would be awesome. Maybe im selfish though haha
Read that as "Thanos vs Camera" and I'm pretty irritated with myself.
I love these videos and getting an interesting perspective on things
Thanos, Deadpool & Death love triangle is one of my favourite Marvel things. I hope we will see Death in Deadpool 3. Also the love between Wade and Spiderman!
You are a great analyst and you have interesting insight with these dialogue dives. I've learned a lot from your presentations, sir. Thank you.
Another great video. Thanks for making.
This is a great analysis on writing, pls keep it up.
I love your videos. I am learning so much as a writer. Thank you ^^ Those images on how to move a scene forward via dialogue is genius
This was an amazing video. I would love a video on the change of perspective between Infinity War and Endgame. I felt a much different Thanos in that one, and I would enjoy a dive analysis very much.
Gotta love the good old fashioned Anti-Spiral argument
(reference from Gurren Lagann)
"...his motivations could not be as simple as personal gain....or hooking up with Death but we're not gonna talk about that."
LOL, I about spit out my drink when I heard that. XD
When you said "antagonist at rest" Gus from Breaking Bad came to my mind immediately lmao. He embodies perfectly, that phrase.
Haven’t finished the whole video yet, but the best part of the scene for me is how after Gamora states she hates the chair, he chooses to sit on the steps instead. It goes to show how Thanos does care about Gamora in a way and helps solidify the possibility of obtaining the soul stone
Wish they showed the Reality Stone stuff but other than that their choices were good.
I can’t wait for you to break down a scene from Stand by Me.
or "you never refused" was an attempt to gaslight.
The fact that the antagonist was the “protagonist” of Infinity War it’s one of the main reasons why it’s waaaay better thn Endgame
This video should have its like/dislike ratio be the same so it can be perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
These videos are awesome!! Please keep it up!!
*Iron Man (2008):* I am Iron Man.
*Iron Man 3 (2013):* There's one thing you can't take away... I am Iron Man.
*Endgame:* I AM... IRON MAN... [snaps]
As someone who loves filmmaking and Infinity War, thank you.
“I’m the only one who knows that.., at least I’m the only one with the will to act on it” OH CRAP THAT WAS HOT AND SO WELL SAID, I ALMOST AGREED WITH THANOS FOR THE REST OF THE MOVIE UGGHGGHH AMAZING
I know I’m completely unqualified to rebut your initial take on Gamora in this scene, but allow me to throw this bone...
There’s a brief glimpse of Thanos as she’s rambling about her hatred. You see his face slump in both sadness that every memory he cherishes with her she hates, but you also see a bit of pain. He’s a little hurt that in this small moment he cannot even sit down with what he considers a beloved daughter. His “favorite” daughter as referenced in GOTG. I can see why they chose to make her go on a bit of a ramble there. She’s recalling everything about that place. She’s feeling it all over again. She can only muster up the word hate because it’s how she feels. She really wants to say “I always hated you” but she can’t. She loves him despite her hatred of everything about him and what he’s done. This moment of rambling both makes sense for her character and gives us a reason to have a brief look at Thanos and see emotion in him while she rambles in the background. I don’t think this could’ve been done any better honestly. It gets the trip down the memory road from hell we’d expect her to have being on the ship again out of the way, adds some emotional weight to Thanos as many fathers can relate to when their daughter is deeply upset and says some things that really cut deep right when you’re happiest to see them and finally it sets the stage nicely for the dialogue that will follow. The discussion that reveals his reasoning.
To me this scene does lift Gamora. While she’s had some feats before this, she’d been dwindled down to a typical romancing heroine after short stint on screen as a heartless warrior. Here you see her stand firm in her tone, posture and words against Thanos. Ronan’s lips trembled as Thanos turned around. Hulk was just knocked out with just a few well placed punches and Loki the main villain of the first avengers singlehandedly strangled to death in the air. We haven’t seen anyone talk to him this way until now. When he grimaced in emotional pain as she verbally tore him down it was jarring because we’d expect him to react in anger. Instead we see this Titan powerless to the dismay of Gamora. That’s damn good writing.
I have no idea why the writers for this film decided ditch the original narrative where Thanos actually did save her as a child from Ronan’s assault on the planet. In that case she had actual cherished memories of Christmas and celebrations. Birthdays and so on. I do appreciate how fatherly they make him here and how bold they paint Gamora. They set Thanos up to appear deeply hurt by her words. He is. He’s soft for her. She means much to him. It is all once more a nice set up. When he decides to be ruthless and brutal to nebula just one scene later she caves. That gives a glimpse into how he’d have managed to keep such a bold Gamora in line all these years. Manipulation. Emotional manipulation, which then gives a retrospective understanding on her initial mumbling of hate in the beginning of this entire sequence.
14:49 Actually the character he reminds me of most here is Light Yagami from Death Note. What’s interesting is that they both believe they are uniquely able to achieve their goals, not because of their strength (in Thanos’ case) or their intelligence (in Light’s case) but because they believe no one else would have the stomach to do all the reprehensible things necessary. They view themselves as a martyr because they think the guilt they have to shoulder makes *them* the real victim of their plans of mass murder. They believe that their willingness to do horrible things in the service of their ideological goal is actually a virtue.
You should really try doing dialogue dives for JoJo Part 7: Steel Ball Run
I mean, now that I think about it, Funny Valentine's dialogue manages to simultaneously employ Antagonist at Rest while also unknowingly still preventing a protagonist from fulfilling their goal
This was a very good analysis. Thanks for the insight!
6:44 I disagree. If she hadn’t said I hated that chair, I’d have thought she threw the bowl just to spite Thanos or to say “see what I’m gonna do to your bowl, take that” to act rebellious, careless just to show disrespect for Thanos.
I really consider Thanos giving Gamora food in this scene the most important part of the movie because it shows that he really does overall cares and loves for her and that made him killing her much more heart-wrenching.
Actions speak louder than words.
At 5:17 I think it’s ok because she couldn’t do much else to express her hatred of his throne. Plus it shows that she would rather just die instead of being there, I think there’s more to analyze there than just her dialogue. Her expression says a lot more than her words as she doesn’t even look at thanos while saying it.