Why the Sigma fp was ahead of its time
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2024
- I’m really really impressed with what Sigma was able to do with the fp, especially 5 years ago when this camera was released. The image quality is awesome, and the user experience is super unique. I could see using this camera as a packable travel camera, and at the same time it could pass as a cinema camera brain at the center of a rig.
I appreciate you stopping by to watch this video, I hope you enjoy.
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Chapters
0:00 The magical shrinking box
0:23 The Sigma fp's problems
1:30 How to fix the fp's problems
3:01 Image quality
6:55 Camera design
7:41 Camera settings
11:20 Price
11:42 The fp II and the Firebird Supreme
#sigmafp #filmmaking #davinciresolve #colorgrading #davinciresolvecolorgrading #sigma #sigmafpl #filmmaker #cinematic #bmpcc #bmpccog #cinemacamera #camera #cinematography #rawvideo 
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Sigma has also released a whole bunch of firmware upgrades for the fp. You can actually externally record BRAW and ProRes RAW over HDMI now 👀
It’s still ahead of its time - it records 12bit CDNG RAW - it’s a full frame movie camera
Facts
Cinema DNG doesn't exactly evoke futuristic to me, as it's a very old format, but it is a very appreciated feature and I wish more camera companies included it as a codec option.
@@handcraftedcinematography1238 I think you’ve misunderstood what I’ve said - I haven’t said it’s futuristic - I’m responding to the video statement which is asking “was it ahead of its time?’ basically in a sense asking if the camera is still relevant today - and I’m saying it is, more so in fact, I didn’t obviously use so many words to explain why it’s basically ahead of its time, the reason for that is because of the size and shape of it, it’s basically quite modular, and can be adapted to many rig styles, and also the price point of which you can get it at, and also the fact that it uses the format of 12bit RAW CDNG, which has not really been offered at at that price point by any camera (other than the very old original BlackMagic pocket cam) - and I am aware CDNG is a very old format created by Adobe, and yes I agree and feel camera-makers should use the format more. But overall my comment was based on the fp as a whole, not just on the format of imagery it produces, it still has some amazing features that a lot of cameras today still don’t have at the price it is offered at.
@@handcraftedcinematography1238 ...Well if it wasn't for RED we'd be able to take advantage of much more efficient internal raw codecs by now.
These days, mobile phones can record CDNG RAW videos thanks to an app called Motioncam Pro.
i am not even vaguely interested in buying this camera but i watched the whole video because of your presentation, great work
Wow thank you, I appreciate that
yeah this dude is gonna be the next Douglas Bubbletrousers
Same here.
Yeah I already have a camera but the presentation made me watch the whole thing
Go watch some of the 12 bit raw sample footage, and tell me they are the best colors you've ever seen from any camera..
The way you put this together is refreshing. Love your drawings, voice, and the fact you're laying down in a shadow. Good job.
I really love the Fp also as a photo camera ! The colors and feel makes it really special.Thanks for the time and effort for this video,subscribed ! ; )
I love seeing people gravitate to this camera lately. I still use mine in the studio primarily, as I am trying to give my lumix some much needed love. but every once and a while I have to break out the CDNG beauty! great video!
Perfect video! I picked up the FP two months ago and I'm absolutely loving it. Currently, I'm using it with old FD and Fujica lenses, and the image is simply amazing. Keep up the great work!
this is amazing to hear because i was planning on doing the exact same thing with an fp lol. definitely at the top of the camera list hearing your success!
I wanna give you appreciation for your presentation style, truly well-spoken and not any wasted time.
the presentation was awesome! such high quality, awesome angles and great explanation. Thank you very much!
Love it - I have a little trio of cameras, all kind of in the same vein. I started with the digital bolex d16 which I still absolutely love and use, the original black magic pocket cinema camera, and I picked up an FP about a year ago and did a tilt-screen modification for it! Really love what this camera gives!!
Thanks for reviewing the ins and outs of this little gem. The GAS in me dictate that i NEED 4K60+p so i kinda ignored the FP but after recording & editing a few 4K projects, i finally convinced myself that i only need 1080p lol. And that menu system is so clean and minimal, wish i could copy that menu into my ZV1.
first of your videos that i have viewed. The first minute alone made me subscribe! I love your storytelling and you use of, "Show, Don't Tell".
The best video i've seen on Sigma FP / FPL. Great work!
Wow, thanks so much!
I've been using this camera for photography. I agree with you, the colors are very nice.
I just found out about this one. (I'm still new at this) Thanks for posting this. You just saved me an hour or two of researching it.
In general Sigma always has fascinated me because they’re so often regarded as third party but looking into them just a bit and you suddenly realize they’re industry tech leaders.
Just got this camera it’s by far my favorite…the design and image quality are unbeatable
Great video! such an interesting camera since came out
This camera would be perfect if:
- Had a Global Shutter or at least a fast reading sensor like Nikon
- Had IBIS
- Tilting screen and EVF
I hope the next iteration borrows the Sony A9 sensor to make it a more practical body for Photo and Video. The form factor is awesome for the performance you get.
1) This camera has quick rolling shutter 20ms in 4k 10ms in 1080 and with crop mode those nubmers lower
2) There are a lot of image stabilized lenses
3) if you have Evf why bother with tilting screen?
@@prostoparen try shooting a movie on evf, you've obviously never shot one. I suspect the real reason they didn't use a tilting screen is simply because they thought many people would just get an external monitor.
@@Shiinamusiclyricssubstry shooting movie on the tilting screen 😂 Anyways this is "cine" camera its meant to be rigged thats why its so small and has no evf no handle so you can come up with ur own rig
Every footage I see of the Sigma fp are always sublime compared to even the Sony FX3 for some reason. The rendering and colors are just nicer
I've been running this camera for the past couple months, and it surprises me every time I use it. It's hard to go back to 10 bit once you use the CDNG RAW, and the price is ridiculously cheap. They definitely have some jank to figure out, though.
Great review man
I remember years ago when the Magic Lanter team developed a hack for the Canon 6D which gave you the ability to shoot DNG video. I inmediately used it and got in love with the quality back then. It was like true magic having a cheap camera look so good. Now seeing this FP camera reminds me of those days.
Great video, makes a lot of good points. I've been enjoying my FP that I got a few months ago. I do need to try some 1080, it's enough resolution for what I do with most my stuff and yeah the files would be way easier to work with.
7:04 it doesn't have a fan, it just uses the radiator between the body and screen to get rid of heat with convection. And it works.
Correct. I suspect that 4K 60fps is not possible due to the processor/passive cooling. I've been running this camera for a year now and have never had overheating issues.
@@TheSkwrlMore about the huge framerate of ~6050Mbps it requires for 4k 60fps as it is RAW, but yes could be needing a fan then.
Great video man. Thanks
For all the people who want to buy this camera but are unsure.....get it NOW, before the price rises or it gets discontinued or anything else. Yes, there is a learning curve to get the best out of it. But once you see the image....the Image....other issues seem negligible. Good video Jake. Thank you for making it.
Also, there are more reasons to like this camera. One, the color profiles are kind of like Fuji...the monochrome and teal and orange ones are insane! Two...the low light performance is next level...Sony FX3 level!
fp is much better than sony fx3!
@@UriRaThat’s what I think too.
@@UriRa Not even a comparison 😀 fp is like an ALEXA...
@@oleberek, These cameras work together. Arri is a very good camera, but too big for many projects...
@@UriRa That is true, but I am not afraid of using the fp as A cam either.
Great review, love the enthusiasm. One correction, the FP does not have a fan behind the screen… it’s entirely passively cooled. Which is great, because it is silent when shooting.
I use to own this camera, and revisited it awhile ago. It’s a wonderful concept, but definitely not executed as well as it could have been. It was designed to be modular, but Sigma stopped short of really offering the missing modules…. SDI I/O, XLR, Timecode etc…
The lack of IBIS and a mechanical shutter severely limit the photo functionality. The rolling shutter and no IBIS limit handheld use. A gimbal or tripod are must haves. The inability to articulate the screen is bothersome. While the optional viewfinder is bulky… quickly negating any size advantage.
Ultimately it’s a camera that needs to be rigged, but in doing so you defeat the purpose of its diminutive build.
I both love it and hate it. I love it after I’ve forgotten what it’s like to live with, and hate it after I remember. It might be the best awful camera I’ve ever owned… right behind the OG Blackmagic Pocket.
I’m in a happy place right now having added the new Sony A9III to my lineup. It’s truly an amazing camera… granted, quite pricey by most standards; But amazing nevertheless.
Good review, keep it up!
Thanks for really cool video 🔥🔥🔥
Very nice review!
I’ve had an fp for 3 years and use it for stills with Leica and Voigtlander glass. It’s one camera that I plan to keep, and I shoot medium format Leica, Hasselblad and Mamiya cameras. Leica glass is your best option on this camera.
With the regular improvements in what you're able to eek out of any footage in post (such as AI upscaling, HDR conversion, and a world of accessible LUT presets), I definitely foresee cameras like this one finding well-deserved second lives in the years to come.
Especially the Sigma fp, of course, which is almost as good as its sister series the Ligma.
I Loveeeeee using this camera ! it's so underrated
Beautiful video. I must subscribe and watch more
I've been interested in this camera for so long, and from other reviews it seemed like it was 4k 12bit raw dng to an SSD or nothing and that has kept me from buying it, now I'm considering it again...
Your reviews are always so interesting and hit on different points than all the other ones, keep it up!
Thank you, I appreciate that
Just out of curiosity: what lenses would you use with the fp? I'm interested in what people are using on L-mount these days
@@jakehayden998 I was thinking of buying the sigma 24-70 f2.8 for most shooting scenario and buying a random cheap pancake lense from keh or mpb for when I just want it's small size, to take it with me everywhere.
@@jakehayden998Thank you for justifying the FP! I use a set of vintage Pentax Takumar lenses or a set of Mamiya Auto Sekor. I convert them to EF and mount them to the FP with a Fotodiox ND throttle. Works great.
@@jakehayden998I have a L mount sigma 18-50mm lens on my s5 currently. I love it
I am specifically interested in the FP because I've got a BMCC6K and SP3's, and I could use them on both because they are L mount. Can you imagine cooke lenses on such a tiny little boi? My only hesitation is that the FP is lacking a few things, like gyro data (would be especially useful on a camera of this size), and being able to record the 12-bit raw to a CFExpress internally, that I really hope they'll add to the next version. This was released in 2019, the FP L in 2021, it just feels like they must be on the verge of a new one by now. If I found an OG FP for the right price, I'd probably grab it. @@jakehayden998
Great video, loved the content. You asked for a refreshed FP, is that not the FPL? Or is that not the upgrade you'd want?
THE FIREBIRD SUPREME!!!
Great! The only thing I am still waiting for in the og fp is an implementation of 3K 3:2 open gate. Technically possible and would finally turn that thing into my anamorphic dream setup. 🙂
i've been wanting to get my hands on a quattro for a while now, sigma is doing really interesting stuff no one seems to bat an eye to.
Sigma has always done things their way. The fp is a proof of this. I remember when it came out, almost all of the "popular" RUclipsrs were sh&ting on it. I'm not a Sigma stan, I just like well engineered and/or just a bit different technology and Sigmas are that. It doesn't matter if it is the fp or any of their foveon sensor cameras or even the SA-7n, they are just different, with their own idiosyncrasies, but definitely well made and cool tools.
Honestly the directors viewfinder is so killer for preproduction and location scouting it might be the best thing about this camera
a cine camera based off of the fp would be amazing, would be even better if you could change mounts and still have internal NDs
very good presentation and a lot of details how to improve the raw footage
Ive had a love/hate relationship with my FP-L since I got it. Got it for a steal really (EVF and Camera for 1900 bucks!). I didn't really understand how the camera recorded footage and I took it on a couple jobs as a b-cam and really didn't like what I was getting out of camera (I didnt realize you had to declare the raws as Blackmagic Log in the raw settings).
Then I needed a full frame camera small enough to hard mount to an object for a 'Breaking Bad' effect in a recent short. I actually researched how to grade with it and I'm absolutely stunned by how easy it was to grade; the Sigma ended up looking just as good in most ways, and better than our C500 MII A cam in some ways. I've since bought the Dark Power Labs kit for this camera (Minus the screen mod, wont be delaminating my camera no thanks) and its an absolute tank with the full cage on: Adapter support, Anti-twist pin slots all over the place, a Sony NPF Side handle for hours of record time, and a NVME SSD sled on the bottom for easy external recording. Now my only real issue is the rolling shutter in UHD, but since you mentioned how good the FHD is, I really only deliver in HD these days anyway so I'll start shooting at that resolution.
I definitely don't have a travel sized sigma anymore lol, but honestly when i want to get cool shots on my vacation, I usually just shoot on the Black magic app on my Iphone and it looks pretty great.
The only real, lasting issue with this camera is the doc industry's need to gate keep brands, If I am not an owner op of a Sony or Canon, I wont be able to use my own kit on the job. But oh well, its only a little bit of money I'm ultimately leaving on the table. Also the EVF can be sooooo fucking annoying sometimes, it always comes loose over the course of a day walking around, I rarely take it out anymore on account of the fact it comes loose all the time (If anyone has advice on what im doing wrong then please, let me know).
Anyway, thats my ted talk. Really glad to be part of this cult following.
I'm using Lumix BGH-1 right now and trying to find a 'Cam B' alongside something to bring along lightly for traveling (so I can practice to craft of color grading) with it but I'm curious if this can match up with Lumix's color science?
Been eyeing on this but this is a whole new system for me since switching from Canon to Lumix.
I have this camera and IMHO the color science is over the top beautiful. It also does amazing stills. For the price it's worth every penny. I love this camera quirks and all. It also has El ZONE and False Color. I use mine with a cage a portable SSD.
I'm very curious about the fp's Braw recording functionality. I know a lot of folks champion it as a convenient replacement for CDNG since the files come out so much smaller. Did you ever get to mess with that?
Battery is dmw-blc12 from old panasonic gh cameras and leica cameras.
Indeed. I own a Leica Q (typ 116) and buy the Sigma batteries since they are much cheaper (and I love Sigma -- I own some Sigma E-mount lenses).
I own the fp from a couple of months ago. I love it but to me, shooting at 1080p is not an option since there is a quite visible aliasing/moire in the shots. IMHO, BMPCC OG has a quite better 1080p stright out of the camera. However, if you record at 4K and downsample to 1080p in post you will get an amazing 1080p. I ended up getting the Dark Power Lab Lite SSD rack to have an external SSD will keeping the small form factor.
Thank you
I have two of these. They are amazing. I shoot DNG to a SanDisk Pro Blade in a kondor blue handle and swapping 1 or 2 TB drives are fast and easy.
The battery is the same as the one Panasonic uses in the Lumix G7 and similar bodies. Really cheap batteries and easy to get dummies for.
I use a hot shoe mounted portable SSD. It's still a very light and movable package. This camera is an absolutely kick ass stills shooter too, unlike the BMD Pocket.
Best camera out there
It looks cool
ive always been curious about the sigma fp, my only gripe is that it is full frame sort of for no reason. i think it would lend it self a lot better
Always wanted one.
The Sigma FP is really interesting but is a first generation product in every sense of the word. It's shortcomings remind me a lot of the drawbacks of the first gen Blackmagic cameras: dealbreakers to most, but to those who are willing to find workarounds it can be a very rewarding shooting experience. I will never use an FP because the combo of limited dynamic range and huge RAW files feels self-defeating - giving the benefits of neither and the drawbacks of both. But I'm very optimistic about the future of Sigma's cameras, if they choose to continue developing them, and I sincerely hope they do. All this camera needed was better dynamic range and it could have been a contender. A few other features like IBIS and a decent autofocus system could have elevated it to a disruptive product. The modular design of this camera is very cool and I sincerely hope Sigma hasn't given up on developing this platform, and I'm still holding out hope for an FP-style camera with a Foveon sensor in the future.
I hope really Sigma makes a mark 2
I love this camera but the highlights clipping is a massive issue. You’ve got to underexpose every shot and bring it back in post but even then, your highlights are most likely clipped. In a controlled environnement it works great but for run & gun it’s a nightmare in my experience. Moreover I wish sigma hadn’t focus so much a on small form factor and added more practical features like IBIS and a better battery life (usable AF would be great too but not necessary).
I hope they make a new iteration of this camera solving those issues.
On the photo side though, this camera is amazing and the files are amazing to work with ! The subtle grain pattern looks amazing, especially for portraits and landscape. Sadly, due to the camera having electronic shutter only, banding is extremely present with artificial lighting (and keeping your shutter at 1/50 or 1/100 isn’t viable in most case seniors, or 1/60 and 1/120 if you live in the USA).
I ended up selling the Fp for a camera that better suits my needs, although it is a amazing camera for a very small niche. I will most likely buy it again if the prices drop under 400$ on the used market in a few years. Looking forward to use it as a travel/daily cam with my vintage lenses again !
interesting. on your histogram - are you exposing to ettr without clipping and then it still shows clipped highlights on the edit? ...
@@dani_da_visionthe on camera histogram works great. The thing is, you’ve got to bring the exposure so much down for the highlights not to clip, that your whole image is underexposed (except highlights…). So you have to bring back the shadows and midtones in post wich introduces a lot of noise. So then you have to slap a denoiser on your footage, and your computer starts running slow… it’s a very slow workflow, even more if you compress your files with slimraw or Davinci.
@@dani_da_vision One issue is that even when exposing ettr it means it's very hard to even see the image. It will look tottaly under exposed on back of cam but will be recoverable.... it makes it very hard to film.
Needs IBIS as well imo. Decent IBIS units can be small enough these days that it shouldn't need to be more than a few mm thicker at most.
i just have one question: how's the electronic stabilization? i'm not a big fan of gimbals and it's so hard to find examples of the EIS around youtube.
Sigma FP is the best camera for Art in a budget ❤
Has the focus speed and accuracy improved in the past few years? I bought it when it first came out and loved the camera but ultimately returned it due to the focusing speed. I love the camera and if its improved id like to get it again
4k is essential as this point, even for youtube let alone movies, I know the file sizes are pretty unusable but would still be nice to do some short tests. Hd looks better though because consumer cameras are always horribly over sharpened, but with raw that shouldn't be a problem.
You can get a “LOG” image out of this camera and stick with your log grading work flow. It’s great if you’re color matching to a B or C cam that shoots log. If you record externally to a Ninja V, the ninja is capable of real time conversion to V-Log. Any “raw” recording out of this camera is capturing so much information that this conversion is possible. You can push and pull this footage in extreme ways and get smooth results. If you shoot mostly 24p footage this camera slaps.
As far as i've seen, this is way better in all aspects (- autofocus) compared to sony and other manufacturers. WHY the hell its way underated? I cant understand that.
How would you like the fpL?
Also ..Search FP modified with a tilt screen this guy does the service it's pretty cool.
I would gladly take 2 of the firebird supremes. no hesitation
Pretty laid back video... are you shooting in 1080, 4K? FF, S35.... just curious... Thanks
Would you ever do a comparison video of this and another camera? There’s basically only 3 on RUclips
And it is, even today!
Once it hits sub 1000 used I will be snagging to rig up
when will they release a new version?
They already have the newer FP-L for quite some time!
can be playback dng files on camara?
Recording in full HD with 2.35:1 crop lowers the resolution further. Isn’t it a problem?
Leave it up to Sigma to create a very decent cinema camera but to forget to tell anyone.
Haha, underrated comment
indeed this camera is under the radar
I just want a a new Cine version with a super 35 sensor and no photo function
If they could update camera to have dci 2k with max 48fps that would be insane
Honestly, I dismissed this camera years ago over some of tech specs, but this video is making me question a lot of things I thought I knew about this camera. The FP L was technically the successor to this, and added an add on viewfinder, the EVF-11, except that the viewfinder prevented use of the USB port defeating it's use for Cinema, and it doesn't shoot video any better than the original FP making it a more expensive downgrade for most people interested in it for film making. Sigma stated the majority of the feedback on the original FP was from photographers, and thus the FP L was targeted more towards their requests. If I can find the body with the 45mm lens used for around $1k somewhere I might consider giving one of these a go. The best I can find currently new is around $1250ish (SH+ taxes), but I'm not sure that deal will continue for long. Still for a FF DNG shooting 4k camera that's still incredibly tempting even if it's only UHD.
Does camera came out right as I was getting into video, and now that I understand video like the back of my hand, this camera was ahead of its time.
Turning the Color Profiles [OFF] will get you closer to a log image. It's not the same, but it helps.
youre well good
14k views in 2 days shows how sigma fp rocks
never knew the sigma fp shot cDNG....
man, it's about the same price as getting an external recorder for my panasonic S1, except you get proper RAW and not processed raw like blackmagic's format.
with used fps being roughly 800 bucks, hell even 1k. it's not a bad deal.
This camera needs :
- 10 bit log at least over hdmi to external recorders
- 2.5k recording up to 48fps internally if possible
- Gyro data recording (which most likely will be added in new firmware)
- And proper CDNG monitoring internally
- Fixed EL Zone so it can show proper clipping point on every iso value not only 800 and 6400 like its now
- Open Gate implemintation
If those things added man forget about other cameras
do you still think it can overpower the fx3 in terms of practicality and professional use like films?
I think in terms of versatility FX3 is better choice with AF/XLR/Lighter codecs/Quick rolling shutter/ Arguably best mount in the game and easier acces to accessories market. With it you can film preety much everything you want.
But the think is Sigma FP fully rigged with everything you need to start shooting "professionally" will cost you less then 4k USD meanwhile FX3 for body itself even used will set you back 3.5 - 4k USD and then you buy accessories for it and lenses and you look at around 7k USD in spending. I choose Sigma FP for now because its cheaper and can do like 70% of what FX3 can if you learn to use this camera + i bought accesories which are interchangeable and if i see myself lacking in features i can easily buy myself FX3. + Im waiting for new firmware to see what they will add to this camera so hard to say for now which camera is really better because SIgma didnt reach its full potential yet while FX3 did
Can sigma fp "zoom" while recording video or while streaming ?
Can I crop though? RAW and less resolution does mean pixel binning. s35 is enough.
lol chilling in a box 11:38
Just checked B&H and they’re still going for $1,899. eBay has them used from about $1,100 to $1,500. Maybe that was a sale price at the time…
Great camera, had issues with moire (line skipped 4K) but loved the grain pattern.
I want a Firebird Supreme now :(
I was thinking about getting this one often but the lenses are the problem in my opinion
All they really needed was really good autofocus
if sigma did internal 10 bit 4k that would be gold. Idk why they dont. I dont wanna have to do 25 TB of storage for 30 seconds of video.
It also has EL zone!!!
Aroll so interesting
It inspired Sony to release the FX family of cameras. They initially didn't want to for fear it would eat into their more serious cinema camera lines but Sigma forced their hand some what. Serious (Hollywood level) cinematographers were buying the fp on the down low.
So now you can record 4k cdng 12 bit on an sd card?
I was thinking the very same thing. I thought only 8-bit RAW was possible internally.
no flippy screen hurts being disabled...