@@DeeRosa I came from circle jerk something community on Reddit, and everyone there are doing nothing but hate Joe Greer. I don't understand why, and I have been watching Joe for years now. Glad I saw this video!
@@deadpool6072 The first time i saw one of Joe’s videos, without knowing anything about him, I immediately thought “This guy is sooo far up his own azz”. Pretty much, it’s the pretentiousness that colors my view of his work, in a very negative way.
Bro I gotta commend you for making these videos. Most photographers would never use their platform for calling things for what they are. Everyone is focused on being liked by everyone and don’t wanna mess that up. Good shit bro
s/o to Joel for helping make color photography acceptable as a fine art and always being brave enough to experiment, Joe Greer for being dope, Paulie B for that cool video series, and you for calling out this wild behavior people have 🙏🏾
"For helping make color photography acceptable as a fine art" Damn i really HOPE you are being sarcastic. Joel Meyerowitz, William Eggleston, Alex Webb, raghubir Singh, cristóbal hara, Helen Levitt, Constantine manos, Paul Graham, Fred herzog and many others are the true responsables for color photography acceptable as a fine art. Joe greer is literally irrelevant for that.
As a photographer just getting into film from shooting digital for years, I recently discovered Joe’s work, and its fire. His success is well deserved because, in my opinion, he creates some awesome photos. Even if he wasn't producing great work, props to him for figuring something out that many won't. There will always be haters that's just life, right? I don’t know if my work will ever be loved, hated, or even noticed, but I’m hoping for the best and I’m going to keep shooting regardless. Making a living as a working photographer is my dream, it’s my goal. Whether or not I hit that success time will tell, but I know I’m building a catalog and body of work that I’ll have a blast looking back on in 20 to 30 years from now. Even if success doesn’t come knocking, I'm leaving a legacy for my family that no hater can ever take away and that’s what’s most important to me personally. Keep doing your thing and try not to focus too much on the haters wishing you positive vibes all 2024.
Wise words ! I did not understand why there were people not liking Joe Greer. I liked his instagram content so i decided to get to know his work more, so I bought his book "the lay of the land". It just made me appreciate him even more, not just as a photographer, but as a human and as an author. - I constantly have to remind myself that sometimes things are not fair, we don't get what we deserve, and there is nothing we can do about it. You can be the kindest person doing the greatest work, and still there will be people judging and hating. We all (me included) have to try to learn from the ones we envy instead of being jealous, and we have to unfocus from the people who can't do that.
People on the internet are driven only by hatred and jealousy. I really appreciate Jo's photos, his life journey, and the passion that animates him. It motivates me to take pictures, improve myself and enjoy every day.
I agree! You did such a good job breaking it down and explaining how weird people get when anything gets 'popular' or big. Bands, artists, photographers anything; people want them to get big and when they do they're upset and talk about how they liked them before they were big. I've called it the 'hipster' paradox. The "I knew them before they were big but don't like them now" attitude.
As a photographer I just see the photo and take it, I'm not out there trying to be a copy of anyone, but Joe is a great photographer, to say he's not just show's they care more about his work then making their own.
For me as a Street Photographer all i know that doing street photography makes me happy It’s more than enough for my soul and I have no time to hate or love I have time to learn from lovers and haters so I can be more happy street photographer
Good points, Dee. I dig Joe Greer. He's a guy walking around with a camera enjoying life. That's the attitude I strive for. Living behind screens has made it so easy to hate everything.
Just discovered this channel through this video and man, bravo for saying it as it is! After shooting digital for 10+ years I've just started exploring film, can tell I'll be spending a lot of time on this channel! Thank you !
12:50 makes me think of the mike Tyson quote “Social media made you all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it.”
I have one question for people out here hating on those who don't deserve it: Do you REALLY care about the advancement of a community and your favorite artist? Are they supposed to stay less successful, unknown, and broke until they die a la Van Gogh, Maier, etc. just for you? The selfishness and jealousy is ugly and unreasonable. Probably like y'all's portfolios. Great video, Dee. Went tf in on this one. 💥
Joe Greer's work is amazing, the Walkie Talkie with Paulie was eye opening to how he works, I enjoyed the images he made on that day. Joe's instagram stories always blow me away, love to meet him and discuss photography.
@@MIZRAIM1906 I like his work for what it is, he doesn't what he does well, as I said with his instagram stories, he brings you on the journey of making these images, he is up there with Sean Tucker and Evan Ranth
When I saw the tweet you are referring to I did exactly the same as you and checked out their work and maybe 1 guy impressed me. Respect for making a video saying similar stuff I was too chicken shit to reply with on twitter. Joe seems like a great dude who takes in my opinion really good work. People are too quick to judge when it comes to street and think its easy where actually getting a great photo out of it is really fucking hard. People really just jealous that he gets the gigs they wish they could.
I’m glad you talked about this. We see this issue with a lot artists. Its like people dont care about the work, they care more about being first as if it gives them validation. People are wild.
Great video. To answer your question, every 200 photos taken, maybe 10 usable. So on a roll of film, maybe 1 photo or 2. Sometimes none. It's a process
Not gonna lie, I used the carry a bias towards him not so much because i didnt like his work but because when i first started to get into film photography around 2017 the people I was around hated him for no reason but mere jealousy. After I shifted away from those groups and started to actually hear his story and see his work for myself, I've then come to enjoy his work and his perspective. Don't let people tell you how to think. :)
thats just giving those people a platform. haters exist in every industry and comes with hate. i personally never realized he or others are getting hate. this is the first time i get that message. not necessary a good thing to spread it furthre as its harmless.
Love that I found this for a few reasons! Happy to hear someone is calling everyone out. Honestly motivating hearing this to just do my own shit and I'll be rewarded later for authenticity.
I'm ngl I don't see this side of photography at all and I am really glad. The aggressive tone you have throughout this whole video made me sad, and it sucks that there is a whole world of this online which I have managed to avoid. I think I will steer clear from this best I can from now on lol.
Honestly dude, thank you for shaking this out of the photo community before it gets as toxic as I’ve seen in the design community. So like, there definitely is toxicity here but I’ve also been amazed at the good vibes and humility of Joe, of Benj, of Jason, of Gajan, of Matt, of Eric, of Steven, of Samuel; I look up to these dudes because of their high level of work, yes, but also because they value community over competition. So for the part of the photo community that is toxic, I’m glad you’re out here preaching this stuff because yeah, I don’t want this industry to be only full of toxic snobs. And I’ve lived the comparison game before: it kills you. It only drags you down. Acknowledging the good in others’ work can only be a good thing.
People love to hate rather than appreciate. You nailed it with that commentary, the film community of photographers out there who just discovered film and created their whole personality around it tends to be the most toxic I've ever experienced. It reminds me of the people who see famous artwork and claim "I can do that" ....well then do it and STFU about it!
Knowing how hypocritical online anonymity lets people be, half of these comments, if not the majory are also from haters. Some have not made up their minds yet too and go with the flow of the rest of the BS. Dee, this piece is dope. Keep at it! 100% truth spoken. I am a female in NY street photography. Started taking photos of people outside fashion shows in 2014. At the time, I only had my iphone on hand, but the sbobbery of the photo crowd with big lenses was really revolting. Of all photogs out there, only 2 were amazingly kind to me: Karl - Edwin Guerre and Nabile Quenum (R.I.P.)
I completely agree with this, in general any photographer that becomes successful IS GREAT. This means you could make it too, BUT you gotta put the work in, you have to realize if your work is sh**, and it take time sometimes years til you see noticeable improvement. Seeing our generation of great photographers within the social media world is inspirational to me in hopes that one day I’ll collab with them or Atleast get to meet them. We need to stop comparing ourselves to others and focus on ourselves.
Ran into Joe once at a photo show in NYC like 7 years ago or so. Seemed like a nice chill dude to me. I was in the photo world in NYC from 2008 till 2013ish(I’m a VFX artist now), I shot and also assisted some of the biggest names but luckily I never worked for Annie Leibovitz. I would exclude her from your list as she was strudels terrible person from everybody I’ve talked to who worked with her or worked at a studio that worked with her(she would just not pay studios and wrack up bills into literally $1,000,000+). She caused at least one business I know of specifically to go under. Well the owner wanting to retain high profile clients for his image and not forcing Annie to pay was also the cause. She’d yell and throw the camera and digital back at someone and then try not to pay the digital tech from whom she rented said camera from. The person in that specific case had to sue her to get compensation. She’s also been known to try and not pay people working for her like, assistants, digital techs, printers, etc Hopefully she’s become a better person to work with now days……
Photographers and creatives (and people in general) should be raising each other up, not knocking each other down. However jealousy is a human trait - and that's what's on display when people attack successful creators. It's not Joe. It could be anybody. It's a shame.
They like the grind because it gives them a subconscious feeling of hope and security because thats something that they can do as Joe or any other photographer but when you present them the success not only that they feel “betrayed” because you “left” them, they also feel that you are somewhere that they will never be so they try to cops with putting you down so they feel above Joe or whoever. Most of these things hit on subconscious level so they dont know how to process I am not trying to defend haters i am just trying to explain whats happening to 90% of them in my opinion, which might be wrong 🤷♂️
Well said sir. I grind everyday. I’m not where I think I should be but I never blame others. It will come or it won’t but at the end of the day photography is a therapeutic opportunity for me.
Exactly! People forget that most of us have done this stuff for almost a DECADE before getting any recognition! They want instant results and get jealous at others because they perceive they didn’t work for it!
MAN this! Its wild bc im literally the opposite, i get inspired from ppl who have worked & "made it" bc it keeps me pushing knowing i can get there too instead of tryna take shots at folks. Shit is so wild to me. Respect for sharing this!
Thanks, I appreciate it! It's all about envy and ego. The Buddhists have been explaining for 2,500 years that the difference between reality and expectations brings frustration which, in turn, brings anger. I'm happy when people are happy and one the reasons for that is the happier they are, the less likely will they bully or attack or denigrate anyone. Happy people want other people to be happy too, so they can share their happiness with them. These angry and frustrated people after Joe Greer, or anybody else for that matter, are not happy. That's what they should spend more time working on in my humble opinion 😉
So wild to me that people hate on this dude. I just discovered him from the Walkie Talkie video and thought he was cool and his work is dope. I think people turn on others that blow up because they both came from the same place and one blew up and the other didn't, so it puts up a mirror where they have to confront that they may not be a good or as talented as they thought they were.
Exactly! I listened to a podcast that was talking crap about his Leica M6 commercial because he was in the woods and taking pics of his wife. So… M6’s shouldn’t be in the woods? Read his book “The Lay of the Land”. He has an amazing story and is a great all around photographer. Thanks for putting this out there!
Haha love this! Well done for being honest and supportive with other peoples work. I noticed that being in the art industry people tend to being competitive and high headed with each other. What’s so hard to support each other, I really don’t understand it. It’s better to be supportive, connect and be friends and then get recognize through each other’s platform.
This a quote from Umberto Eco, Italian philosopher and writer, about the dangers of Internet and Social media, from 2016 (translated from Italian): “Social media gives the right to speak to legions of imbeciles who previously only spoke at the bar after a glass of wine, without damaging the community. They were immediately silenced, but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of imbeciles”. We should give haters the same weight we were giving to those guys at the bar with their last drink in their hands.
Wedding photography, sports photography, photojournalism, product photography and the like can be seen as viable careers to many, not so much with street photography, especially when shot mainly on film. When someone comes along and acquires a decent amount of success, it’s a ripe situation for haters to emerge. The way I see it, Joe is living the dream. More power to him! Great vid!!
i'm guilty for joining that bandwagon when i first started shooting film 5 years ago lmao. but that all changed after i've "matured" and thanks to Paulie B's Walkie Talkie video of Joe now i'm following his work.
first time watching this video and man, all points are spot on. this has been the question I kept asking myself when I got caught by the allure of street photography and wanted to learn more about it. I have been through a lot of groups and over the past years and have left all of it due to the fact that instead of me learning a whole bunch of meaningful things about street photography, the only lesson have learned was the toxicity of the groups I was in. I can not even count the number of times I have witnessed people "critiquing" a work that I believe was very meaningful and impactful by talking sh*t on that person. I also learned the so called "rules" that they impose when it comes to street photography which I think is utter nonsense and most of all I have learned that if you are not the "flavor of the month" people would talk sh*t upon those who aren't, even if their work is by far miles away better than their "flavor of the month"
It’s like music bands. As soon as you start getting more listeners you become a sellout. So just chill and do what you love. If it brings you money- great, if not, at least it brings you joy.
Not sure if it's been said, but I'll say it this way. The "best" music tends not to be on the radio. Some of the "best" movies never went to the theater. And sorry but not sorry - some of the "best" photography or street-photography isn't attached to accounts with a jabillion followers. One issue is that "best" is subjective... we have to adjust for that. Another issue is that a social media expert who ALSO happens to shoot "garbage/mid" street photography tends to produce a following not congruent with their body of work. The "hate" they probably get is really stemming from the fact that people are aware of that and are calling it out. LOL. On the other hand - an organic SUPER talented street shooter who is NOT a social media expert might end up with their work never being seen (whether art is still art when it's not seen is an entirely different discussion). While I agree with this video in totality - there tends to be reasons why "hate" trickles in - I'm not saying it's right but I'm saying that I understand it. A lot of the time it trickles in bc WE (creatives) consume art like creatives and not like the layman. When I travel to shoot I'm always asked if I know the most popular ATL "street photography" RUclipsr - lol. I smile and say "no I do not know him personally but I know of him" - but the truth of the matter he's not the BEST ATL street shooter - he's not even close! LOL. BUT... this social media expert makes full length video ALONE and it's high quality. You're NOT going to outwork him on getting the things published that he wants to say. PERIOD. He's the hardest working media personality in ATL and he DESERVES those followers for content creation. (THE dude in ATL is a guy you would never know unless you know bc he's too busy shooting and has no desire to be a social media expert). If you're a social media expert do not confuse that w/ "talent" - that's my gripe... but that's not the fault of social media experts so it gets tricky. As a musician we used to say "volume can't compensate for lack of talent" everytime a shitty band turned the knobs up. Saying something loudly - or saying something to the most amount people ABSOLUTELY doesn't mean you know wtf you're talking about. And that's the dillema we are in. Idk how to fix it - but being an expert at social media and having NO other skill (Kardashians) will generate hate most times bc the viewer is VERY aware that their star is shining much brighter than their talent can support. I don't know how to fix it... maybe it doesn't need fixing at all. EXCELLENT VIDEO BROTHER!!!! See you guys out there! IG: @FRESHOUTTAFOCUS
I’ve met Joe in person when he stopped by in Boston. He’s a solid dude and loves what he does. I’m happy for his success and I’d say him and a small handful of others are responsible for saving film, that was already a dying medium with film stocks getting terminated, you thought it was the incredibles. It’s weird people just hate on him for no reason.
And......you just got another follower. I cant understand why there is so much negativity, hate, jealousy, and melodramatics when were all just trying to capture the nuance and beauty happening candidly all around us. #loverules
Why anyone has the time/energy to hate on someone is beyond me. It’s pathetic. I have photographers I appreciate their work, and others I don’t care for. But I’m not about to waste time bashing anyone.
Okay so I’m not shooting film, I don’t do street photography, I don’t care if anyone sees my photos and I’m not looking for success or a algorithm trophy. This makes it okay for me to trash the shitty RUclips/ Instagram photographers and still consider myself a phenomenal human being. Cheers 🍻
I saw this with Willem Verbeeck. Everyone loved this quiet, shy boy who was shooting film. Things started working out for him, he revealed he has a girlfriend, moved city, started getting gigs and his channel grew. And with each of these steps, people started ridiculing him, pretty much made him a stereotype and a meme on the analog community on reddit. Hand to myt heart, every single comment, reeked of NOTHING other than plain fuckin jealousy. Shitty people who don't have it in them to take action.
Great job on tellling the truth, jealousy is the worst in my opinion, and if any one wants to progress its by starting accepting that you have to put on the extra work and push yourself. I follow Joe Greer on youtube and other photographers because they inspired me to create. Even if they dont follow back, that is not an issue, competition is what is creating this hate. The way I see it is to support the ones that are on top of their game, there is a reason why they are successful. We can definitely learn from them ✌
Very good points man, for sure. I will never understand people who are like that. We all can be successful and should push each other to reach our goals! 🙌
But tell me why people are out here hating on Joel Meyerowitz for getting into nfts!? Guy is the reason y’all even interested in this medium. A pioneer!
Would you shut up dude - seriously. You’re another guy who’s gonna hop their the comments to cry. Eddie isn’t a hater who lies about his work like you just stop crying. Show me your portfolio.
Man this talk was one amazing CALL OUT for this community ! It's really easy to slip in this negativity and hate "the hype" but very few have actually something to show for .... great video will share it
Well said, Dee. To me, the most hilarious kind of armchair critics are those who attribute the success of the photographer to the gear. I have read, in passing, stuff like "Ah, but that guy is using a Leica (or a Mamiya, or insert other premium camera gear here)… that's why they're successful. I'd like to see them using subpar cameras or crappy point-and-shoots, etc." Comments like this make me shake my head and laugh out loud. You could hand Joe Greer a disposable film camera and he would still take interesting shots. On the other hand, I'd love to put a Leica in the hands of these critics and tell them, "Okay, shoot with this, let's see if you become as successful". Cheers! //Rick
When I was selling my M3 in a FB group I got a question from Joe Greer. I was like wow! It would be awesome for my M3 to end up in Joe's hands. I quickly answered with a couple of short messages but he never answered back or even said a word. Anyway, it would have been so cool! Fortunately the M3 stays with me 🤓About your video, absolutely true man. We take the moment of success of our incipient heroes as some kind of treason. We should exercise shared and empathic joy for the success of others much more. The guy just makes the work.
Brilliant video, say it how it is. Joe Greer is a great photographer, haters always gonna hate before they look at themselves, their work, it’s just jealously plain and simple as you say. Keyboard Warriors
God i love this. All my thoughts in one video. Joe Greer is my favorite photographer since way back when i first started shooting and i couldn’t be happier for his success. I hope we all succeed. No reason to hate on anyone. Next video tag all the haters 😂
Great video. I think it’s inevitable to get haters when your audience expands. Not neccesarily because people support underdogs just to talk shit later, but because a bigger audience is doomed to be 5% haters. Great point in the video, about just to stop letting jealousy fuel negativity. You earned another subscriber😁🤙🏻
So, Dee, tell us how your really feel! LOL! You are so right about haters. I think it's too easy to hide behind a keyboard sometimes. Art is so subjective. Just enjoy it please!!! Stop posting just to beat the algorithm and get likes. Enjoy your time out shooting. Shoot for fun not for fame! Have a rockin' day Dee!
Informative and helpful, too much time wasted on hating people and their work. We should all focus on our own work and how to build each other up not down. Where’s that Dee Rosa discord at? Lol.
This isn't a photography thing exclusively. Blink 182 was amazing, but then they sold out. Every single band goes through this. We love you, you get big, we hate you, and then after about 10 years exactly, of being a sell out, they just become accepted as a legend.
A lot of what was said was about people being immature. There comes a point where you do not care about anyting and anybody's opinion of your pictures, their success or failure. Only then your real photographic experience begins. Until then - you are one of the people described in this video.
@@DeeRosaLet me upload all my pictures so some chat goup tells me which is good which is bad. Maybe even a guru will join. "“The only way you can write the truth is to assume that what you set down will never be read. Not by any other person, and not even by yourself at some later date. Otherwise you begin excusing yourself. You must see the writing as emerging like a long scroll of ink from the index finger of your right hand; you must see your left hand erasing it.”
@@DeeRosa Hey! Lookie here! I just saw a video title "your bokeh looks unprofessional" complete with bad spelling. Then I see your two bit comment, lmao included, and realise that is your video. Here: Who told you people live to amuse you? Who told you you have anything to say? Who told you your pictures matter? Who told you anybody's pictures matter?
![Chris Langan - The Interview THEY Didn't Want You To See - CTMU [Full Version; Timestamps]](/img/1.gif)
Good on you for calling this kind of stuff out. People who talk shit do nothing but that. 👊🏻
A truer statement has never been said. 🫱🏽🫲🏼
@@DeeRosa I came from circle jerk something community on Reddit, and everyone there are doing nothing but hate Joe Greer. I don't understand why, and I have been watching Joe for years now. Glad I saw this video!
@@deadpool6072 The first time i saw one of Joe’s videos, without knowing anything about him, I immediately thought “This guy is sooo far up his own azz”. Pretty much, it’s the pretentiousness that colors my view of his work, in a very negative way.
Amen.
Joe has great work.
Bro I gotta commend you for making these videos. Most photographers would never use their platform for calling things for what they are. Everyone is focused on being liked by everyone and don’t wanna mess that up. Good shit bro
🤝appreciate you, Vuh!
I ain’t got time to hate on people, congrats to folks who change their livelihood with their camera.
Yessir 🤝 I’ve learned to be worried about me and my life.
s/o to Joel for helping make color photography acceptable as a fine art and always being brave enough to experiment, Joe Greer for being dope, Paulie B for that cool video series, and you for calling out this wild behavior people have 🙏🏾
Yessir - I used to be a hater but that shit is lame; get some coochie not an attitude.
@@DeeRosa 💯😤
"For helping make color photography acceptable as a fine art"
Damn i really HOPE you are being sarcastic.
Joel Meyerowitz, William Eggleston, Alex Webb, raghubir Singh, cristóbal hara, Helen Levitt, Constantine manos, Paul Graham, Fred herzog and many others are the true responsables for color photography acceptable as a fine art.
Joe greer is literally irrelevant for that.
@@Zecamilleo my friend, that is exactly what i said. your reading comprehension is off. you still have time to delete this.
Bro if you don’t sit your ass down lmao that’s exactly what he said - he said Joel did it not Joe 😂😂😂
"How many photos do you actually take that aren't keepers..." Bruh, you out here preaching and I appreciate it!
As a photographer just getting into film from shooting digital for years, I recently discovered Joe’s work, and its fire. His success is well deserved because, in my opinion, he creates some awesome photos. Even if he wasn't producing great work, props to him for figuring something out that many won't. There will always be haters that's just life, right? I don’t know if my work will ever be loved, hated, or even noticed, but I’m hoping for the best and I’m going to keep shooting regardless. Making a living as a working photographer is my dream, it’s my goal. Whether or not I hit that success time will tell, but I know I’m building a catalog and body of work that I’ll have a blast looking back on in 20 to 30 years from now. Even if success doesn’t come knocking, I'm leaving a legacy for my family that no hater can ever take away and that’s what’s most important to me personally. Keep doing your thing and try not to focus too much on the haters wishing you positive vibes all 2024.
Wise words !
I did not understand why there were people not liking Joe Greer. I liked his instagram content so i decided to get to know his work more, so I bought his book "the lay of the land". It just made me appreciate him even more, not just as a photographer, but as a human and as an author.
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I constantly have to remind myself that sometimes things are not fair, we don't get what we deserve, and there is nothing we can do about it.
You can be the kindest person doing the greatest work, and still there will be people judging and hating.
We all (me included) have to try to learn from the ones we envy instead of being jealous, and we have to unfocus from the people who can't do that.
People on the internet are driven only by hatred and jealousy. I really appreciate Jo's photos, his life journey, and the passion that animates him. It motivates me to take pictures, improve myself and enjoy every day.
Until this video, I never knew, that people hate his work. Like??? I adore it so much … and I love following his journey
I agree! You did such a good job breaking it down and explaining how weird people get when anything gets 'popular' or big. Bands, artists, photographers anything; people want them to get big and when they do they're upset and talk about how they liked them before they were big. I've called it the 'hipster' paradox. The "I knew them before they were big but don't like them now" attitude.
As a photographer I just see the photo and take it, I'm not out there trying to be a copy of anyone, but Joe is a great photographer, to say he's not just show's they care more about his work then making their own.
For me as a Street Photographer all i know that doing street photography makes me happy
It’s more than enough for my soul
and I have no time to hate or love
I have time to learn from lovers and haters so I can be more happy street photographer
That’s deep. I’ll take it.
Good points, Dee. I dig Joe Greer. He's a guy walking around with a camera enjoying life. That's the attitude I strive for. Living behind screens has made it so easy to hate everything.
Not only is he a good photographer but has a good demeanor and that’s huge selling point
Just discovered this channel through this video and man, bravo for saying it as it is! After shooting digital for 10+ years I've just started exploring film, can tell I'll be spending a lot of time on this channel! Thank you !
12:50 makes me think of the mike Tyson quote “Social media made you all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it.”
I have one question for people out here hating on those who don't deserve it: Do you REALLY care about the advancement of a community and your favorite artist? Are they supposed to stay less successful, unknown, and broke until they die a la Van Gogh, Maier, etc. just for you?
The selfishness and jealousy is ugly and unreasonable. Probably like y'all's portfolios. Great video, Dee. Went tf in on this one.
💥
Joe Greer's work is amazing, the Walkie Talkie with Paulie was eye opening to how he works, I enjoyed the images he made on that day. Joe's instagram stories always blow me away, love to meet him and discuss photography.
@@MIZRAIM1906 I like his work for what it is, he doesn't what he does well, as I said with his instagram stories, he brings you on the journey of making these images, he is up there with Sean Tucker and Evan Ranth
When I saw the tweet you are referring to I did exactly the same as you and checked out their work and maybe 1 guy impressed me. Respect for making a video saying similar stuff I was too chicken shit to reply with on twitter. Joe seems like a great dude who takes in my opinion really good work. People are too quick to judge when it comes to street and think its easy where actually getting a great photo out of it is really fucking hard. People really just jealous that he gets the gigs they wish they could.
I’m glad you talked about this. We see this issue with a lot artists. Its like people dont care about the work, they care more about being first as if it gives them validation. People are wild.
It’s wild Harold. These people are just salty - I mentioned because I see it everyday where people have an issue with him.
Great video. To answer your question, every 200 photos taken, maybe 10 usable. So on a roll of film, maybe 1 photo or 2. Sometimes none. It's a process
Not gonna lie, I used the carry a bias towards him not so much because i didnt like his work but because when i first started to get into film photography around 2017 the people I was around hated him for no reason but mere jealousy. After I shifted away from those groups and started to actually hear his story and see his work for myself, I've then come to enjoy his work and his perspective. Don't let people tell you how to think. :)
thats just giving those people a platform. haters exist in every industry and comes with hate. i personally never realized he or others are getting hate. this is the first time i get that message. not necessary a good thing to spread it furthre as its harmless.
Love that I found this for a few reasons! Happy to hear someone is calling everyone out. Honestly motivating hearing this to just do my own shit and I'll be rewarded later for authenticity.
I'm ngl I don't see this side of photography at all and I am really glad. The aggressive tone you have throughout this whole video made me sad, and it sucks that there is a whole world of this online which I have managed to avoid. I think I will steer clear from this best I can from now on lol.
Honestly dude, thank you for shaking this out of the photo community before it gets as toxic as I’ve seen in the design community. So like, there definitely is toxicity here but I’ve also been amazed at the good vibes and humility of Joe, of Benj, of Jason, of Gajan, of Matt, of Eric, of Steven, of Samuel; I look up to these dudes because of their high level of work, yes, but also because they value community over competition. So for the part of the photo community that is toxic, I’m glad you’re out here preaching this stuff because yeah, I don’t want this industry to be only full of toxic snobs. And I’ve lived the comparison game before: it kills you. It only drags you down. Acknowledging the good in others’ work can only be a good thing.
I agree, good for calling this out. JG is a legit photog. However, you miss the biggest reason people hate on him-he's a Jeezus phreak.
People love to hate rather than appreciate. You nailed it with that commentary, the film community of photographers out there who just discovered film and created their whole personality around it tends to be the most toxic I've ever experienced. It reminds me of the people who see famous artwork and claim "I can do that" ....well then do it and STFU about it!
COME ON NOW! PREACH MAN THIS IS IT!
Knowing how hypocritical online anonymity lets people be, half of these comments, if not the majory are also from haters. Some have not made up their minds yet too and go with the flow of the rest of the BS. Dee, this piece is dope. Keep at it! 100% truth spoken. I am a female in NY street photography. Started taking photos of people outside fashion shows in 2014. At the time, I only had my iphone on hand, but the sbobbery of the photo crowd with big lenses was really revolting. Of all photogs out there, only 2 were amazingly kind to me: Karl - Edwin Guerre and Nabile Quenum (R.I.P.)
I completely agree with this, in general any photographer that becomes successful IS GREAT. This means you could make it too, BUT you gotta put the work in, you have to realize if your work is sh**, and it take time sometimes years til you see noticeable improvement. Seeing our generation of great photographers within the social media world is inspirational to me in hopes that one day I’ll collab with them or Atleast get to meet them. We need to stop comparing ourselves to others and focus on ourselves.
Ran into Joe once at a photo show in NYC like 7 years ago or so. Seemed like a nice chill dude to me.
I was in the photo world in NYC from 2008 till 2013ish(I’m a VFX artist now), I shot and also assisted some of the biggest names but luckily I never worked for Annie Leibovitz. I would exclude her from your list as she was strudels terrible person from everybody I’ve talked to who worked with her or worked at a studio that worked with her(she would just not pay studios and wrack up bills into literally $1,000,000+).
She caused at least one business I know of specifically to go under. Well the owner wanting to retain high profile clients for his image and not forcing Annie to pay was also the cause.
She’d yell and throw the camera and digital back at someone and then try not to pay the digital tech from whom she rented said camera from. The person in that specific case had to sue her to get compensation.
She’s also been known to try and not pay people working for her like, assistants, digital techs, printers, etc
Hopefully she’s become a better person to work with now days……
There are two kinds of people: #1 talk about people, #2 talk about ideas. But only one of them is going to have success. ✌️
“If you ain’t got no haters, you ain’t poppin” - Rico Richie (Poppin) 🤷🏾♂️
Damn… he spitting.
@@DeeRosa Lol facts
Photographers and creatives (and people in general) should be raising each other up, not knocking each other down. However jealousy is a human trait - and that's what's on display when people attack successful creators. It's not Joe. It could be anybody. It's a shame.
They like the grind because it gives them a subconscious feeling of hope and security because thats something that they can do as Joe or any other photographer but when you present them the success not only that they feel “betrayed” because you “left” them, they also feel that you are somewhere that they will never be so they try to cops with putting you down so they feel above Joe or whoever. Most of these things hit on subconscious level so they dont know how to process
I am not trying to defend haters i am just trying to explain whats happening to 90% of them in my opinion, which might be wrong 🤷♂️
I didn't even know Joe greer slander was even around. Love the man! Takes alot of energy to talk shit online about someone you don't know
Well said sir. I grind everyday. I’m not where I think I should be but I never blame others. It will come or it won’t but at the end of the day photography is a therapeutic opportunity for me.
Exactly! People forget that most of us have done this stuff for almost a DECADE before getting any recognition! They want instant results and get jealous at others because they perceive they didn’t work for it!
MAN this! Its wild bc im literally the opposite, i get inspired from ppl who have worked & "made it" bc it keeps me pushing knowing i can get there too instead of tryna take shots at folks. Shit is so wild to me. Respect for sharing this!
Thanks, I appreciate it! It's all about envy and ego. The Buddhists have been explaining for 2,500 years that the difference between reality and expectations brings frustration which, in turn, brings anger.
I'm happy when people are happy and one the reasons for that is the happier they are, the less likely will they bully or attack or denigrate anyone. Happy people want other people to be happy too, so they can share their happiness with them.
These angry and frustrated people after Joe Greer, or anybody else for that matter, are not happy. That's what they should spend more time working on in my humble opinion 😉
Jealousy is odd because hating someone else never helps your success.
So wild to me that people hate on this dude. I just discovered him from the Walkie Talkie video and thought he was cool and his work is dope. I think people turn on others that blow up because they both came from the same place and one blew up and the other didn't, so it puts up a mirror where they have to confront that they may not be a good or as talented as they thought they were.
Exactly! I listened to a podcast that was talking crap about his Leica M6 commercial because he was in the woods and taking pics of his wife. So… M6’s shouldn’t be in the woods? Read his book “The Lay of the Land”. He has an amazing story and is a great all around photographer. Thanks for putting this out there!
Yeah - people get jealous and then start finding things wrong with people.
Haha love this! Well done for being honest and supportive with other peoples work. I noticed that being in the art industry people tend to being competitive and high headed with each other. What’s so hard to support each other, I really don’t understand it. It’s better to be supportive, connect and be friends and then get recognize through each other’s platform.
This a quote from Umberto Eco, Italian philosopher and writer, about the dangers of Internet and Social media, from 2016 (translated from Italian): “Social media gives the right to speak to legions of imbeciles who previously only spoke at the bar after a glass of wine, without damaging the community. They were immediately silenced, but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of imbeciles”.
We should give haters the same weight we were giving to those guys at the bar with their last drink in their hands.
Wedding photography, sports photography, photojournalism, product photography and the like can be seen as viable careers to many, not so much with street photography, especially when shot mainly on film. When someone comes along and acquires a decent amount of success, it’s a ripe situation for haters to emerge. The way I see it, Joe is living the dream. More power to him! Great vid!!
Shoutout Joe!
i'm guilty for joining that bandwagon when i first started shooting film 5 years ago lmao. but that all changed after i've "matured" and thanks to Paulie B's Walkie Talkie video of Joe now i'm following his work.
first time watching this video and man, all points are spot on.
this has been the question I kept asking myself when I got caught by the allure of street photography and wanted to learn more about it.
I have been through a lot of groups and over the past years and have left all of it due to the fact that instead of me learning a whole bunch of meaningful things about street photography, the only lesson have learned was the toxicity of the groups I was in.
I can not even count the number of times I have witnessed people "critiquing" a work that I believe was very meaningful and impactful by talking sh*t on that person. I also learned the so called "rules" that they impose when it comes to street photography which I think is utter nonsense and most of all I have learned that if you are not the "flavor of the month" people would talk sh*t upon those who aren't, even if their work is by far miles away better than their "flavor of the month"
Honestly Joe G seems like a cool dude and a very skilled photographer! 100% take him up on that beer 🍻
AMEN. Well said Dee and I hope you dropped the mic when you stopped recording. You should have. Subscribed.
It’s like music bands. As soon as you start getting more listeners you become a sellout. So just chill and do what you love. If it brings you money- great, if not, at least it brings you joy.
i agree completely man, i was arguing the same points the other day to a few folks. glad to see other people see the same angle
Not sure if it's been said, but I'll say it this way. The "best" music tends not to be on the radio. Some of the "best" movies never went to the theater. And sorry but not sorry - some of the "best" photography or street-photography isn't attached to accounts with a jabillion followers. One issue is that "best" is subjective... we have to adjust for that. Another issue is that a social media expert who ALSO happens to shoot "garbage/mid" street photography tends to produce a following not congruent with their body of work. The "hate" they probably get is really stemming from the fact that people are aware of that and are calling it out. LOL. On the other hand - an organic SUPER talented street shooter who is NOT a social media expert might end up with their work never being seen (whether art is still art when it's not seen is an entirely different discussion). While I agree with this video in totality - there tends to be reasons why "hate" trickles in - I'm not saying it's right but I'm saying that I understand it. A lot of the time it trickles in bc WE (creatives) consume art like creatives and not like the layman. When I travel to shoot I'm always asked if I know the most popular ATL "street photography" RUclipsr - lol. I smile and say "no I do not know him personally but I know of him" - but the truth of the matter he's not the BEST ATL street shooter - he's not even close! LOL. BUT... this social media expert makes full length video ALONE and it's high quality. You're NOT going to outwork him on getting the things published that he wants to say. PERIOD. He's the hardest working media personality in ATL and he DESERVES those followers for content creation. (THE dude in ATL is a guy you would never know unless you know bc he's too busy shooting and has no desire to be a social media expert). If you're a social media expert do not confuse that w/ "talent" - that's my gripe... but that's not the fault of social media experts so it gets tricky. As a musician we used to say "volume can't compensate for lack of talent" everytime a shitty band turned the knobs up. Saying something loudly - or saying something to the most amount people ABSOLUTELY doesn't mean you know wtf you're talking about. And that's the dillema we are in. Idk how to fix it - but being an expert at social media and having NO other skill (Kardashians) will generate hate most times bc the viewer is VERY aware that their star is shining much brighter than their talent can support. I don't know how to fix it... maybe it doesn't need fixing at all. EXCELLENT VIDEO BROTHER!!!! See you guys out there! IG: @FRESHOUTTAFOCUS
I’ve met Joe in person when he stopped by in Boston. He’s a solid dude and loves what he does. I’m happy for his success and I’d say him and a small handful of others are responsible for saving film, that was already a dying medium with film stocks getting terminated, you thought it was the incredibles. It’s weird people just hate on him for no reason.
My ratio of trash to keepers is about 200/1
Goal is to get it down to 150/1. Now that’s success!
Street photographers especially are so toxic, they need to hear this message. 🙏
And......you just got another follower.
I cant understand why there is so much negativity, hate, jealousy, and melodramatics when were all just trying to capture the nuance and beauty happening candidly all around us. #loverules
I used to make coffee for Joe in Nashville, he’s a nice dude! Excellent video my guy
This video is so on point, some of the community can be so toxic thank you for speaking out
I hate to do this because the point is made but... 86 years was the curse, not 100. Mad love for Joe Greer.
Instead of "get some bitches", "get your money up" or "touch grass" Ima start telling people to get their portfolio up
Why anyone has the time/energy to hate on someone is beyond me. It’s pathetic. I have photographers I appreciate their work, and others I don’t care for. But I’m not about to waste time bashing anyone.
True.
People want to see others doing well, but not too well.
Heard that man - people who used to root for me now have an issue with what I say and how well I’m doing.
@@DeeRosa “with success in life, comes more haters” - David Goggins
Okay so I’m not shooting film, I don’t do street photography, I don’t care if anyone sees my photos and I’m not looking for success or a algorithm trophy. This makes it okay for me to trash the shitty RUclips/ Instagram photographers and still consider myself a phenomenal human being. Cheers 🍻
Gus, imma keep it two Virgils my man and say that I don’t give a fhuckk about what you do.
See that’s what it’s all about
Just came across this now, I commend you. You inspired me to highlight this topic on my channel in a future video.
An issue everywhere, not just photography, peaople love to hate something or someone
I saw this with Willem Verbeeck. Everyone loved this quiet, shy boy who was shooting film. Things started working out for him, he revealed he has a girlfriend, moved city, started getting gigs and his channel grew. And with each of these steps, people started ridiculing him, pretty much made him a stereotype and a meme on the analog community on reddit. Hand to myt heart, every single comment, reeked of NOTHING other than plain fuckin jealousy. Shitty people who don't have it in them to take action.
Great job on tellling the truth, jealousy is the worst in my opinion, and if any one wants to progress its by starting accepting that you have to put on the extra work and push yourself. I follow Joe Greer on youtube and other photographers because they inspired me to create. Even if they dont follow back, that is not an issue, competition is what is creating this hate. The way I see it is to support the ones that are on top of their game, there is a reason why they are successful. We can definitely learn from them ✌
Very good points man, for sure. I will never understand people who are like that. We all can be successful and should push each other to reach our goals! 🙌
But tell me why people are out here hating on Joel Meyerowitz for getting into nfts!? Guy is the reason y’all even interested in this medium. A pioneer!
Bunch of fucking NOBODIES talking about SOMEBODY who’s done SOMETHING! Is crazy!
Would you shut up dude - seriously. You’re another guy who’s gonna hop their the comments to cry. Eddie isn’t a hater who lies about his work like you just stop crying. Show me your portfolio.
WOW DUDE! All these languages in the world and you chose to speak the truth.
kept it too real! love this dawg
Man this talk was one amazing CALL OUT for this community ! It's really easy to slip in this negativity and hate "the hype" but very few have actually something to show for .... great video will share it
Well said, Dee. To me, the most hilarious kind of armchair critics are those who attribute the success of the photographer to the gear. I have read, in passing, stuff like "Ah, but that guy is using a Leica (or a Mamiya, or insert other premium camera gear here)… that's why they're successful. I'd like to see them using subpar cameras or crappy point-and-shoots, etc." Comments like this make me shake my head and laugh out loud. You could hand Joe Greer a disposable film camera and he would still take interesting shots. On the other hand, I'd love to put a Leica in the hands of these critics and tell them, "Okay, shoot with this, let's see if you become as successful". Cheers! //Rick
Very good video man 🙌 great perspective
Bros not even clicking quarter million shots per year, and complaining about freaking Leica - Fujifilm - etc. ambassadors. Great content man!
First of all... cool watch. Second... where can I engage with all this hate? I'm missing all the drama
When I was selling my M3 in a FB group I got a question from Joe Greer. I was like wow! It would be awesome for my M3 to end up in Joe's hands. I quickly answered with a couple of short messages but he never answered back or even said a word. Anyway, it would have been so cool! Fortunately the M3 stays with me 🤓About your video, absolutely true man. We take the moment of success of our incipient heroes as some kind of treason. We should exercise shared and empathic joy for the success of others much more. The guy just makes the work.
Love this channel! Always telling it like it is. No fluff.
I appreciate that!
Brilliant video, say it how it is. Joe Greer is a great photographer, haters always gonna hate before they look at themselves, their work, it’s just jealously plain and simple as you say.
Keyboard Warriors
God i love this. All my thoughts in one video. Joe Greer is my favorite photographer since way back when i first started shooting and i couldn’t be happier for his success. I hope we all succeed. No reason to hate on anyone. Next video tag all the haters 😂
LOL @ "a lot of you guys just need to stfu." Pahahaha. Facts.
For the record, I’ve always hated the Red Sox 😅
Hell yes. Finally someone talking sense on this issue.
My guy went OFF 👨🏫
Haters envy his passion. Have u seen his bag of finished rolls?! Man shoots because hes doing something he loves.
well said. focus on your personal en work and keep it moving…
Spot on my dude I hate to see the hate cause the genuinely seems like a cool talented dude.
Great video. I think it’s inevitable to get haters when your audience expands. Not neccesarily because people support underdogs just to talk shit later, but because a bigger audience is doomed to be 5% haters.
Great point in the video, about just to stop letting jealousy fuel negativity.
You earned another subscriber😁🤙🏻
This sounds like the photo scene here in SA 🎉
So, Dee, tell us how your really feel! LOL! You are so right about haters. I think it's too easy to hide behind a keyboard sometimes. Art is so subjective. Just enjoy it please!!! Stop posting just to beat the algorithm and get likes. Enjoy your time out shooting. Shoot for fun not for fame! Have a rockin' day Dee!
Thanks friend!
Great video!!!!!
Street photography is just snapshots. Joe takes great snapshots.
Same reason why people hates Fujifilm cause Sony users don’t like people using Fuji 😂
Lol 😂
@@DeeRosa you know it’s true 😂
Calling it like it is! Strong vid bro, couldnt agree more
Subscribed and now binging the video content. Great stuff.
Nailed it, dude.
Informative and helpful, too much time wasted on hating people and their work. We should all focus on our own work and how to build each other up not down. Where’s that Dee Rosa discord at? Lol.
They’d remove it in a week lmao also I don’t know how to work discord lol
This isn't a photography thing exclusively. Blink 182 was amazing, but then they sold out. Every single band goes through this. We love you, you get big, we hate you, and then after about 10 years exactly, of being a sell out, they just become accepted as a legend.
Hahahahahah you popped off on this one! Good shit yo! 💪🏽
A lot of what was said was about people being immature. There comes a point where you do not care about anyting and anybody's opinion of your pictures, their success or failure. Only then your real photographic experience begins. Until then - you are one of the people described in this video.
This comment was so self serving and cringe the group chat is having a field day.
@@DeeRosaLet me upload all my pictures so some chat goup tells me which is good which is bad. Maybe even a guru will join.
"“The only way you can write the truth is to assume that what you set down will never be read. Not by any other person, and not even by yourself at some later date. Otherwise you begin excusing yourself. You must see the writing as emerging like a long scroll of ink from the index finger of your right hand; you must see your left hand erasing it.”
Somehow you because even more full of yourself lmao.
@@DeeRosa Hey! Lookie here! I just saw a video title "your bokeh looks unprofessional" complete with bad spelling. Then I see your two bit comment, lmao included, and realise that is your video. Here:
Who told you people live to amuse you? Who told you you have anything to say?
Who told you your pictures matter?
Who told you anybody's pictures matter?
You get even more and more self serving and unhinged. I think you assume this is an argument and not me thinking you look pathetic
That was needed, and perfectly put. Thanks DR!