Ribbon Microphones: The Complete Guide for Recording Engineers
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
- You've got to hear these ribbon microphones on drums and acoustic guitar! Listen to audio comparisons between ribbon mics, moving coil mics, and condenser mics. Let me know which one you prefer in the comments!
Thanks to @CloudMicrophones for sponsoring this video! You can learn more about these microphones here: sweetwater.sjv.io/NkK497
Cloud Microphones 44 Passive Ribbon Microphone
- Sweetwater: sweetwater.sjv.io/Kje40n
- B&H: bhpho.to/3FVRcWI
Cloud Microphones 44-A Active Ribbon Microphone
- Sweetwater: sweetwater.sjv.io/75moaA
- B&H: bhpho.to/3G1jyPg
00:00 - Introduction
00:55 - Condenser Mics vs Dynamic Mics vs Ribbon Mics
01:46 - Demo: Electric Guitar
02:07 - Ribbon Microphones "Take EQ Well"
03:49 - Transient Response
04:35 - Demo: Tambourine
04:55 - Demo: Drums
06:15 - Polar Pattern
07:32 - Blumlein Stereo Microphone Technique
07:52 - Demo: Acoustic Guitar
08:52 - Off-Axis Frequency Response
09:43 - Proximity Effect
10:58 - Preamp Gain & Input Impedance
12:20 - Active vs Passive Ribbon Microphones
13:31 - Ribbon Microphone Safety
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I've watched hundreds of these mic videos over the last few years. This is the best one I've ever seen, by far.
you are by far the most articulate educator in the audio production space. you are so precise with your language -- a pleasure to watch.
Can I say that this talk and Demo is one of the best I have heard ! The Tech side was well explained and I feel came across in an easy understandable manner , I have worked as a sound engineer for over 50 yrs and I give this 5 stars .......Well Done !!
how cool is it that you can nerd out about your thing on the internet AND companies send you new gear AND i'm learning how this stuff works!
Everything you need to know about ribbon mics.Thanks for another really informative video Kyle! A fantastic presentation!!
Best tutorial on Ribbon microphones I’ve watched/heard!
Excellent job.
You are a brilliant kid!
Thanks for the excellent piece on ribbon mics! One thing I always like to do is flip the phase on your mic preamp or your mixing board so you can hear if the headphones are in or out as compared to the mic, because of the resonance of your own voice or instrument in your head and headphones versus mic you might hear a big difference. I think it can really change the way a person will perform if they for instance hear the mic being too thin because it's out of phase, it's a little trick I find useful in the studio.
I have a Rode NTR and a Stagg ribbon mic, the Rode is an active one and has a lovely warm sound, with the Stagg I use a Fethead which boosts the signal perfectly, love the sound of Ribbon mics, great video, learned a lot, thanks for sharing.
Thanks for sharing!
Dude your videos are so awesome! Thanks!
I was just starting to look at ribbon mics, so this timing is perfect!
Glad to help, Richard! Thanks for watching!
Your voice is so relaxing to listen to and this video is informative. I really like the sound of the ribbon mic, capturing the authentic room sound. I'm sure they must be the most expensive though...
Hi Kyle,
I must admit that while I have been working in audio (live and recording) for many years, I have never actually used ribbon mics.
Very interesting info. There does seem to be a perceptible difference.
Wow, they are not cheap though, are they?
Keep up the good work!
Try out “Nude” ribbon microphones. Incredibly inexpensive!
Best video on the subject ! Learned so much !
Glad to hear this!
Cool to see you upgrade and have products sended to you since Ive seen your first video ! Im happy for you !
Thanks for being a part of the channel from the beginning, DarkTrap Studio!
Would be cool that you been sponsored by K&M to review their mic stand series ! And there no video on that
I remember how I learned to coil cables ...
@@AudioUniversity Thanks to you for making quality content man Im just watching haha
Wow i was having this question and this video is very useful, specially those sound demos of each microphone, would love to hear on some of the pickup microphone technology 👍👍👍👍
Glad you found it useful! Thanks!
Wow! Great video! Thank you
Glad you liked it!
Another quality upload. Thanks!
Thanks, Bert!
If the purpose of this video was to sell Cloud 44 microphones I will definitely buy one or two.
The primary purpose is to help viewers understand ribbon mics, but I think Cloud Microphones will be happy to hear this!
Thanks for watching, PaulMix!
great vid. thanks
Helpful thanks
Thanks for your informative and enjoyable videos. You should have many times the subscribers reflected above.
The ribbon inside filters the high frequency. Thanks Kyle for your wonderful video.
Glad you enjoyed it, ebor! Thanks!
Excellent video..thanks! I need to add a ribbon type microphone to my studio.
I never knew how much I needed one before making this video. I use these things all the time now! Thanks for watching, Michael!
Спасибо, дружище! Очень полезное видео!
Just received my first ribbon after years of stage and studio performance
The home studio option is now an affordable luxury and I’m going on my 8th year in the chair
But I do enjoy quality and pedigree as a gear snob I don’t do clones no offense to the warm audio crowd, we never had them in my playing years
so at 62 years old I guess I’m spoiled although I did try some against the real deal but they fell short in performance but you can’t beat the price
for just how close they can get
Anywho my first ribbons are Royer 121’ although I had a r10 shipped as well I’ll most likely keep just the 121
I spoke with a Royer engineer regarding the handling of the Royer builds and although they are delicate in comparison to our dynamics
and condensers he assured me that at least for Royer that the opening and closing of the storage box won’t generate enough pressure to
stretch or damage the ribbon also the vertical storage protocol common in vintage ribbons was not necessary
To preserve the mic of course read the manual in toto and as Kyle points out avoid any direct air pressure directly at the ribbon
always test the feeling of air movement, like from a cab with a punchy output using your hand or a sheet of paper and use pop filter or two also the offset method to allow air to
brush and deflect as opposed to direct reflection of the air movement is a good idea
Like Kyle, I will be babying my ribbon investments with provided covers when moving from position to position
Since direct plosive air movement seems to be the enemy
I plan on moving these ribbons as one would while walking and singing with a birthday cake,
being carful not to extinguish the candle flame with the speed of movement or the direction of the air from the song
That being said my tube amps collected over the 44 years as a professional and semi-professional guitarist will get to
Yell in the Royer ear as they have using the 57s, 421s, 609s, c414 and even my “vocal only” U87 with all the combinations
I can phase manage
That switch on the bottom of the AEA looks like an accident waiting to happen. It's shocking that AEA thought a switch like that was a good idea when there are plenty of options for one that would be flatter to the body of the mic.
That's a Cloud mic. It is a bit vintage, but I kinda like the look and feel.
@@AudioUniversityOops, mixing my ribbon mic companies !??! Yeah, looks cool except for that toggle switch that seems like one could easily damage if not careful.
The acoustic guitar demo you did was great, because it finally let me understand why I absolutely *hate* the sound of Martin acoustic guitars. That awful resonant bump they all have around 225Hz sounds so boxy and muddy, and masks the top end so much that they all sound muffled and dead.
Ribbon mics and me have been besties for a while. They're so good at preserving the tone that usually gets lost whenever I record my violin. The only beef I've had with them is the high amount of gain required to get a good signal, and the inevitable fight against the rising noise floor. I recently received a 32-bit float interface last week and it seems to do some amazing stuff with passive ribbon and dynamic mics, since I can cut out the additional preamp entirely. It feels like I've been able to boost the tracks in my DAW with less noise because there's less hardware in the signal chain. The overall tone feels different too, but I haven't done any particularly scientific tests with it so I can't tell if that's just placebo yet.
I'm curious about what your experience has been. Have you had a chance to use a 32-bit float recorder/interface yet? If so, has the dynamic range altered your recording techniques or mic placement with passive microphones?
I think your new interface simply has less noise, than whatever preamp you were using. I don't think 32-bit float has anything to do with anything, in this situation. A violin doesn't have that wide of a dynamic range, and you're probably in a home studio, with an *ambient background noise level of about 45dB.*
A violin can hit about 92dB during loud passages, *therefore giving you a useful dynamic range of 47dB* to work with, which a 16-bit or 24-bit interface can handle with ease. Plus, you have to account for headroom, on the way in. So, you really have like 35dB of dynamic range to work with, when scoring your violin.
In the end, do whatever sounds best, to you... and I suggest keeping your interface gain set so that your violin peaks at around -16dB to -12dB, during the loudest passages, on your digital meter. This will ensure that your analog gain stages are not in danger of overloading (which is worse than noise, IMO). Then, simply boost the signal in the DAW by normalizing, or whatever you do, after the track is already recorded, so it's ready for mixing.
The music and the performance is always way more important than the gear or the specs, but it's okay to enjoy your new toys, LOL.
Kyle I’m your biggest fan thanks for such a good video you’re the best you rock you’re amazing etc etc etc..
Thank you! I appreciate your support! And I’m glad you like the videos.
Great video. I got a behringer 202hd and a t.bone rb500 to start learning about recording saxophone, voice and guitar. The audio input is very low, even with the gain to the top. What am I missing in this set up?
Thank you for the amazing video! I'm a saxophonist and often very disappointed to hear how I sound like in dynamic mics when performing because it doesn't reflect my true tone I worked so hard on, is there a good mic to bring to gigs that can best reflect my true tone like a ribbon mic? I'm looking for a warm sound instead of a overly bright one. Is RE 20 a good option? Or should I just get one ribbon mic (my friend told me it's a bit of overkill to bring to gigs and it's very fragile)
Some of the Beyerdynamic ribbon Microphones are stage-worthy, have cardioid or even hypercardioid pick up patterns so are not as prone to feedback as figure of eight. The M500 model, especially when modified by Stephen Sank, are particularly expressive microphones.
Damn, I thought you were going to compare the AA OC818 with the cloud passover / active :(
Thanks for the amazing lesson. The guitar sounds amazing. Could you tell me what martin model the guitar is?
Thanks! It’s a 000-28
@@AudioUniversity What an amazing guitar and recording! Thank you!
Thank you.....
I've often speculated that ribbon mics in the classic figure of eight configuration, (as opposed to some of the more directional designs), might have a form of natural compression. Singing or playing loudly into one side of the mic wouldn't some of the louder primary sound come around to the back of the mic and be well out of phase and start to cancel amplitudes? I would really like to see a proof of concept on this one.
The direct and reflected sound reach the ribbon at different times, so phase cancellation isn’t terrible.
If you’re close enough to a boundary that this becomes an issue, you are too close.
Be careful to avoid hitting a ribbon with phantom power, unless it’s active.
Nicely done tutorial!
At 8min I'm "listening to the fine details" and hearing a lot of pick noise. Try a less noisy pick or alter your pick angle/attack. A medium celluloid would be good for what you are playing.
I thought condenser microphones were 2 - 16 Micron thick, making them 1,000 * more sensitive? As far as the moving coil Dynamics, I believe they are 6-24 microns? I thought that's why ribbon microphones were so dark? The foil is about 1,000 * + thicker?
Would ribbon mics be a good choice for recording a concert band in a school band hall?
To my ears, the Rode sounds by far the best given the very unpleasant distortion from the amp. Does it have a faulty preamp stage ?
I think that distortion was an active choice for coloring the signal. It does a pretty good job of showing how the condenser vs ribbon reacts. Ribbons gobble up the lows while condensers are better at capturing the mids at that distance. The tough question is what the amp sounded like in real life, vs what we're getting. I can't find a frequency response graph for the passive Cloud 44, which is a shame. It'd be nice to know how mountainous those low ends are, depending on the distance. Another 6-12" might help here, but then it wouldn't be an apples-to-apples comparison.
Thanks, Pirojf. You can see the frequency response from the microphone booklet in the video.
@@AudioUniversity Ah, yeah there it is. The low freq is flatter than I expected. Does the manual state at what distance it was tested? The m160 I have came with a graph showing the distances where the proximity effect starts to kick in. About 4-6" is where it becomes a chonky mess, so if I recorded an amp at that distance it would come across a bit smothering.
It’s sort of an optical illusion - the amp was about 18 inches away from the mic in this test. But the amp was bass heavy for this particular test.
It does not indicate the distance of the measurement in the manual.
So the most important part of the mic is thinner than human hair.. do they get messed up when they are shipped? Even from Sweetwater I would be very paranoid...
mmmm cloud lifter. We call that.. heat.
A very excellent presentation ---- I am not a ribbon microphone fan. They are , to me, an answer without a need. They are fussy, fragile and provide no advantage in real world situations.
if the mics are in different spots of the speaker they are going to sound way off, you know that ... this amp test is useless
OK, I'm seeing mics without designations being place in different places than the ribbon mic was placed. Of course they sound different, ALL mics sound different to some extent. Edit out the biased "comparison test" and you have a good video on ribbon mics.
Identify all microphones and place them identically on the guitar amp speaker and you have an actual test with integrity.
Otherwise, foof...
And yes, the Cloud mics are great mics. Do yourself a favor and fix the obviously flawed comparisons. Put all the mics on the edge of the speaker, or on the center or both and let us hear what the difference really is about. A mic on the center of a speaker does not sound the same as the same mic on the edge, proven science and easy to do.
Hey Michael. You’re right that all mics and placements sound different. The electric guitar test is a bit of an optical illusion, unfortunately. I should have used a better camera angle. The mics are all about 18 inches from the speaker. The difference in tone between those placements at that distance were not nearly as severe as they would be in close proximity to the speaker.
These videos are great, thanks for sharing :)
You know, I've always heard about ribbon mics having the best transient response, with condensers in second place and then dynamic mics.
But how can one properly compare transient response between different mics? How can I objectively tell that a ribbon outperforms a dynamic in this sense? Or even compare the response of a high end dynamic against a cheaper dynamic.
Any thoughts on this?
I don't have a technological answer for this question but I have always felt that ribbons reproduce the true 'shape' to the sound as well as other characteristics.
You can really hear that on the drum recording as well as the guitar amplifier recording in this clip, and the transient response is not just better in the high frequencies which is often where people are gauging a microphone performance, to me it seems like that transit response runs the entire frequency spectrum range. That ribbon is just so free to move especially when it is 1.8 µm or less in thickness, heavier than that and it starts to sound a little less responsive and more tinny to me.
@@TiqueO6 thanks for your comment :)
I think most people would agree with what you have experienced, and maybe that is just how one can feel it. But could it be that is just frequency response what makes you feel that way about ribbons, for example?