Separating-Individuating from Borderline Partner
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- Опубликовано: 31 мар 2023
- Mirror image of separating-individuating from the narcissist in the wake of narcissistic abuse
Engulfment anxiety and dependency cause the borderline to cast you as an abuser
Admit your contributions as an intimate partner (mate selection, for example, or savior-rescuer complex)
I am not an abuser: your authentic voice, get rid of guilt and shame
Borderlines parentify: Get rid of the maternal function in the shared fantasy
Hand over ownership, regulation
Separation: silence your voice in her mind, enhance her authentic voice
What about individuation?
Once your voice is silenced, both external regulator (“abuser”) and savior, mother and child are gone.
Authentic voice is disembodied.
Embodying.
Individuation requires mind-body work: owning your voice also by connecting it to your body.
Reconstituting three lost functions: self-mothering (self-love), self-saving (agency), choosing and affirming life (negating depression, anxiety, catastrophizing, and ANTS)
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Man, I needed to hear this. She went on a wild sex spree and blamed me for it… Called it ‘self-harming’ and said I was responsible for it. Lost my temper and said some pretty nasty things to her then broke things off with her. Not sure how you’re supposed to respond to something like that? Celebrate? Finally told her to pound dirt in so many words. Not carrying that monkey on my back. The guilt she had me carrying made me physically sick… Wasn’t eating, couldn’t sleep, etc. Felt like I abandoned my toddler child in the middle of the highway. No idea I could get gaslit that bad.
Yeah man. I used to wake up with terrible chest pains. You'll be alright boss.
Now you know and can tell other peeps. The days of all the different varieties of her running around ruining the health of the community is coming to an end, starting with you telling on her so-to-speak.
Male Borderline in my case. Twisted b-turd nearly had me loosing my mind, autoimmune, and destruction of my career. WORSE than narc in my experience. Damn. Never met such a weak, needy, cruel, twisted, deranged, IDIOT in my life. Business partner who was obsessed with me, not romantic. Hell, I'd be a goner if it were intimate. Wouldn't take no for an answer, and wanted me to chase him, while punishing me with lies and destroying all i worked for. WOW. These people need to be locked up. LIke a narc, they are INTENTIONAL in their manipulation, lies, crazy-making behavior.
I don’t know what the hell I was in. I slowly became completely financially dependent on him. He withdrew sex completely, we moved out of my house we paid for, for one he owned, but we always had financial issues. He was in complete control. I ended up losing my mind at the end of the relationship. Kicked out with nothing, he sold all my things, and destroyed my credit. All I got was the car, and that’s because my name was on it. I never cheated on 9 years. We slept in separate rooms and he would come in, have sex with me, and leave. No kissing, no intimacy. Doggie stule and out. I feel like I’m the narcissist or borderline. I’m in therapy.
Don't feel bad for reacting that way, Justin. You are in your right to feel betrayed and hurt that caused your reaction. Finding out your significant other went on a cheating spree is not something light on the heart. Especially if you poured your heart into the relationship. Regarding your reaction, she had it coming. Let her face the consequences of her actions. And if you saying nasty things to her is a consequence, so be it. Whether you said nice or bad things won't change the fact that she did you wrong and made you the culprit of her own actions. What matters is that you decided to walk away. I, as someone who also broke up with a borderline, can tell you that you will not regret this decision. These people are toxic beyond measure. It is an experience I don't wish on anyone.
In nutshell, individuating from borderline is much difficult than narcissist because borderline became part of you more intensely..
Yes...
Absolutely mind blowing. Just finished a UGLY divorce with a BPD woman. Almost destroyed my life financially, emotionally. Recognizing the hero complex and the consequences help. But we are not the abuser- we are the victims
Unlucky at love, too kind to others, bad people take advantage of her, she gives the underdog a chance, she is willing to love the unlovable. These are examples of tge internal dialogue of a borderline woman who cycles through a litany of male partners with issues of their own. Purposely selecting a partner that guarantees that the relationship won't work, and on to the next.
Exactly
“Purposely finding an incompatible partner, having a horrible time, and then on to the next partner”.
Excellent clarity and great conceptual framework in that. Very good to see it illustrated in layman terms. I was needing that, thanks
Yes! This discribes me completely. I keep dating narcissists like my narcissist mom.
Any suggestions for a borderline mother and sister?
I divorced my diagnosed BPD wife with the exact intention of getting out of the way of her journey but also to save myself. Within days she rebounded so no, even ending a 7 year marriage didn't break thru her denial. I'm so disappointed in her inability to see the need to get consistent help and stop relying on others
How long has she been cheating?
@@meisterchlerp3771 it wasn't cheating. It was going to someone else because I was going through with a divorce and because she didn't want to face it, she gaslit herself to be with someone who had been interested in her that my ex wife months earlier said she found repulsive but her addiction to validation overroad that plus not wanting to face divorce.
Why do BPD ex wife’s destroy their ex husbands..?
This was exactly what I needed to hear today. I finally got the courage to leave my BPD girlfriend a week ago and I immediately felt more free. She's still trying to manipulate me into coming back though with guilt and shame that she has no car (hers broke down) and can't afford the house she's renting by herself, etc. She is saying she's in a mental health facility right now but she lies pathologically so I don't know if that's even true. She's saying she's sorry for things but then turns around and says that I also need therapy and I'm part of the reason things happened the way they did. It's constant with the gaslighting and she is very self-centered and couldn't care less about how her behavior affects me. She's been laying on the manipulation thick today and it's making me feel guilty but I refuse to go back. Still though, this helped to hear a lot. Thanks Sam
Thank you so much. Your videos helped me to finally get out of this "20 years old best friends" relationship and understand the dynamic and responsabilities on both sides. I am glad that I am out . Still sad to see what I accepted ....I had low bounderies and I let her act out endlessly ....a pity for both of us...but there is no way back.... wounds are too deep ...and in the end I must confess rhat I was always scared of her. What a rollercoaster ride...so exhausting
You being afraid of her was part of her conditioning you, intentionally. Let that sink. Yes, they are full of vile hatred and cruelty, I think worse than a narc. Their manipulation, need to control, cruelty is far more pervasive and hard-hitting. The one I am breaking free from now, a man, had me in fear of his violent reprisal. Will have to move with LLC name on everything. He has all my belongings. I will just show up, and from there , hopefully never see him again. He won't know I am leaving , but story will be i still am moving there, but getting my belongings into storage meanwhile, since he ghosted and was holding this over my head - all records, and everything else I own. B..TARD from hell.
I was scared of mine too
Sorry ❤
OMG i'm so glad i got discarded... paranoia, lying, blame and nasty talks were eating me alive. Anybody who is out of this hell, be fn GRATEFUL for it! You'll het better, believe me! Just realize, it was a MUST for your own sanity!
I’ve experienced all of this. This guy really knows his stuff
Your videos are the only thing that is keeping me sane after she broke up with me. You constantly answer every question that I have ever had and recite every thing she has ever told me, word for word.
I like how serious Prof. Vaknin is when speaking about this subject. Really says something about how complicated and unsafe such relationships can get.
Wow! Just lived through this. So difficult to reconcile the whole experience, so many contradictions that it feels there is no sanity. Relieved to be out of it and how much understanding comes in this video!
Thank you!!!
I am listening to your lessons. Very informative. Would have to known 10 years ago when I left BDL with almost no energy left, behavior didn’t make any sense to me until your explanations.
Sincerest thanks for this Prof Vaknin
What great encouragement this video is!!
You have gift sensei. Thank you for sharing it with the world
I thought my roommate was my best friend, I thought she had been a scapegoat of her family, I knew she had Bipolar #2, always depressed…if I was sick she was worse, I cooked, cleaned, basically I was a mother to a 50 year old woman. Her toxic boyfriend (or thats what she told me) tells her to leave me when I start holding her for responsibility, in one year after she was fired from her job, she never cleaned, cooked, anything. I should have recognized the red flags, but I was now being blamed. She goes to spend night with BF, she gives me a text message she is leaving that day breaking our agreements, owes me alot of money from feeding and taking care of her….Its getting messy now, I talked to her family and I was told she did the same thing to her mom when she was dying. She even accused me of calling police on her, devaluing me, discarded me. I dont know what hurts more…not realizing sooner of letting her step over my boundaries ! Now im left with about $8K in debt
Thank you for your content , Professor.
😊 comedia helps thinking through this tough emotional subject .. Thank You
Great video and topics, bravo for both of you 👏 👍 🙌 ❤❤❤❤❤
Thank you, Sam!
Thank you, Sam.
Thank you Sam 😊
Thank you, Sam. Punkt.
yes indeed.
Past summer i went on date with one girl that has lots of BPD symptoms.
And it was exactly as prof. Vaknin is describing we went from 0 to 100 in matter of days, before that it was like i am talking do answering machine. so then after date, few weeks later i asked her how is one of her coworkers which we both know (she is in her 50, me and that girl are in 30s), she started barraging me with all sort of sh!t for more than 3 weeks.
She was calling me lots of thing that prof. Vaknin is describing here. So i stepped back a bit and give her some space. She started to rage and in few months she had new date and was fully in love with him.
And i was very proud on my self that i give my self time for things to evolve, otherwise now i would be in very very toxic realtionship. Thx to youre videos prof. Vakin i was able to spot red flags very quickly.
Thank you :)
I can't wait to hear your take on individuation process after exiting a high-demand religious group. Rebuilding life after the tsunami of collective moral narcissism is a whole different level of "difficult"...
I was part of one of those for four years. Everything was só intense and eventually ended. The leader was a Covert Narcisist, aways behind the courtains puling the strings. His error was he dated a lot of the girls, in the same time, and no one knew about the order. When everybody found out, the Group was over and everyone showed Thierry narcisistic self.
My Luck was that i’ve entered the cult with very good friends and we helped one another in the end. It show me My darkest side, when i was thinking i was doing all in name of Love
This shit is brutal real
@@rafael.salgueiro_ I agree! The most cruel form of narcissism is that stemming from "moral grandstanding" embedded in one or another religious dogma. Great if you have someone to support you on the way out of the group, otherwise this shit can get dangerous.
Thank you, Professor.
Thanks very much 🙏🙏🙏
Sam, could you make a video on borderline bosses in the workplace? I suspect my boss has BPD. She over-delegates work and casts all responsibility upon her subordinates. This is done under the guise that she is helping us grow our careers.
She needs to be humbled. Some people need an ass beating to stay right. However violence is bad so just knife her car tires or you could just egg her car if you really wanna be childish. Or even better, sit down and write exactly what she is doing down and study it then confront her and tell her exactly why she sucks, but with class and education. Or you could start pointing out the logical fallacies that she spews constantly. I always find putting them in the place of a child and usurping the role of a teacher really bothers these type of people.
@@a.s6841I agree
Excellent video Sam. Thanks so much for sharing.
What about the situation child / borderline mother?
Everything that you have described applies to this situation or there is some more extra work to do as the child (now a grown-up adult ) can separate / individuate from his borderline mother ?
Thanks
Thank you 🙏
Thank you for making this video. I have been diagnosed with bpd and have gone though much therapy, dbt, ect. I am in a long term relationship/marriage with a self aware, self diagnosed narcissist. We have been through many years of toxic unaware makeups and breakups (since 16 yrs old) but are together 23 yrs later with 4 kids (one with severe special needs) We have both done a lot of work separate and together however I still see myself doing to an extent what you are describing in this video. I know I should show my husband this video and ask him to do this but I am very scared to face the outcome of this. Do you do any sessions or would that be something I could possibly look into?
Just show him the video and remember rule #1: Don’t Be Afraid. And watch how your honesty and integrity towards him pays off.
@@sneakerhead567 wish I knew when I was a teenager what I know now. Very helpful comment 🤦🏽♀️
@@sneakerhead567 Never
Prof Vaknin, i have never reacted or said anything online. But i really do have a question, only for you to answer please..
What if you ARE the mother and she collaborates with here covert narcissist father, whom she believes and is her hero daddy? Since the divorce my daughter went no, to on and off contact with me. To her i am now the narcissist 😢
I really, really would appreciate your answer as The authority on these subjects. Thank you!
Can you do a video on how to overcome the discard when you felt you healed your childhood wounds with this narcissistic relationship and I became a better person and finally felt complete. I am a strong woman who had been a victim of sexual abuse by my own father, only once when I was 15, but he didn’t know my brother in law had already abused me when I was 11 fora long time. I never told him. I never told anyone. I thought there was something wrong with me. I really felt h healed from this though and I don’t feel triggered when I think of them or the instances.
But this discard? It has sunk me! 😢 help!!!
This discard was so blindsided that it crushed me and I feel all those wounds flooding back.
I believe I was on the narcissistic spectrum somewhere until this relationship. Everything changed for me for the positive. I wonder sometimes if I just had grade A supply.
Thank you for this very helpful video
Spot on
I really enjoy your videos. Is there a way to communicate with you directly? Do you offer any kind of consulting / coaching services?
www.narcissistic-abuse.com/ctcounsel.html
Thank you
Sick outro
What if you messed it up ? Laid down boundaries with her getting physical with you, lightly held her arm and leg so she could not kick you. Now you are facing domestic abuse charges ? Asking for a friend
Can the individuation process also apply to sibling relationships especially boderline codependent ones?
Yes. It applies to all intimate relationships.
Thank you dr.
I would like to hear something professional about typical behaviours of a Borderline man!
I think I have experienced such a man/ „boy“ (58-60 years old) in my last relationship, which I ended after 1,5 years in 2021!
Watch the covert borderline playlist. All classic borderlines are the same, regardless of gender.
Dear Professor, by any chance, do you have any video of what happens when you break up with bpd gf and she starts to view you as the enemy even if she forced you to do this? Thank you for all your lectures btw
By any chance, can you look through the BPD playlist?
I’ve earned myself a life long enemy, and it’s too late now. I forcefully separated my infant son from his bpd mother with the help of authorities, lawyers etc. help me, i wish i’d watched this video before, We’re about to divorce, she’s losing her green card, marriage, son and a decent enough of a man. By all means she has destroyed her life. And she could never apologise to me for the things she’d made me experience even for the physical assaults. She genuinely believes im the evil person. We have no common understanding whatsoever. Im completely distraught. my phone is full of her photos, my son is only 1 yr old, what am i tell him in the future, just found out she just hired an attorney, she’s going to go to war with me….
Ey Professor , you look younger and stronger , what you doing?😅 kisses from México ❤
Thank you so much for all your doctrines. I am from Greece. I can't understand a point. Okay, a male narcissist ask for his mother's love and behave as mother. But what about a female narcissist? She has mother' s issues to or father father's issues? She asks for her father and behaves as father? Thank you for your answer prof.
Mother.
@@samvaknin thank you very much. So, both of them (male and female) have mother's issues.
Do they actually believe their accusations of abuse towards rhe partner? Is there a way to stop this?
Yes they do. Cognitive distortion is real. The fix is to leave.
Does taking responsibility and admitting contributions also hold in the case of separating from a borderline parent?
Always take responsibility. It is called adulthood.
@@samvaknin I understand. But where do we draw the line between taking responsibility and acting as the borderline's parent?
Be responsible for yourself and don't be a parental figure in a relationship. Look for an equal partner. I lost too much of myself being responsible for my partner and after that I lost my partner too. I had too little bounderies
Legit
Why do BPD ex wife’s destroy their ex husbands..?
Watch the videos in the BPD playlist.
@@samvaknin I have been listening to and watching your videos for 4 years now daily and religiously and was curious if you would like to do an interview with the ex husband of a Covert borderline ex wife and Covert Narcissist ex mother in law for the sake of the humanity and save some precious life’s of many…
Thank you so much in advance and truly appreciate you from the bottom of my heart…
Have a lovely day…
My ex who we i have a toddler with. I’m her rock 🪨 her stability. She called me her bestest best friend (her words) Im the only one on the planet she rages on.
She doesn’t even do that to her younger out of state new boyfriend who she flies to see all the time. (She briefly moved him in fall of 2023 left, he left a few days after Christmas) She devalued him on New Years 2023 she was with me at midnight and left 30 seconds after lol 🤦♂️
I’m confused In her mind am i still considered her intimate partner that regulates her emotion? Or is her out of state boyfriend that she flew to go see 01/19/24 after 3 weeks of him moving out of her house?
She has me so confused.
Can you make a video on how to heal from a breakup from a bpd?
Therapy.