The Biggest Problem with Heroforge
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2022
- Heroforge is great, but it also has a lot of problems. This video doesn't quite go in-depth about the more niche issues one might pick out, but rather aims to target the most fundamental issue Heroforge has; the absolutely terrible state of its default options and how it puts off newcomers.
Derf Channel Discord - / discord
Wasteland Raider: www.heroforge.com/load_config...
LARPer King: www.heroforge.com/load_config...
Do you agree? Disagree? Hit me
Definitely agree, the base colors especially on cloth and hair need tweaking to look good, It should already BE good to begin with.
I also think a few more rock options would be nice, as we only have volcanic, “normal” and polished.
As someone who didn’t even know you could make custom colors for a bit; I do agree that there needs to be more default colors for people just getting into it. Not everyone is going to want to spend lots of time getting the colors right especially if they are new.
I absolutely agree, with everything mentioned in this video and I share your desire for less cartoony models, better default colors for newer users (im on your discord server as it's an awesome environment for learning.) But i dont think Heroforge is going to do away with the big hands and bulky swords and such, as it makes the 3D prints sturdier.
I do however hope they add a separate option for less bulky models for us digital folks that arent using the website to print physical minis.
Pretty late but I personally wish there were more middle eastern and south east asian inspired fantasy outfits/weapons etc
As someone who has ocs inspired by these regions it's prerty hard to get distinct design as a casual hero forge user
@@ManiyaVinas I agree. For me it's not that difficult to deal with because my niche leans more towards the medieval European niche, but I 100% agree there should be more diversity
I would also suggest they add a random class-based model generator. Give a list of options to get people going, I know even as a returning user that I struggle getting inspiration for what a Druid might wear compared to a paladin or something like that. If they added meta tags to pieces of armor/clothing and the gear/spell effects you could hit a button and have it randomly spit out matched outfits and gear that at least *resemble* what you’re looking for.
Changes would be needed but I think it would help spark inspiration for people who don’t know what options are available to them on first glance
I don't know if this could engage people more, but just as an artist, I absolutely agree about the default pose and proportions issues… They simply don't work. ESPECIALLY THE POSE.
The first thing I do when starting a new model is literally changing the pose, even before I start to work on the actual pose. That trolling shrug (yeah, I believe the default mini is actually telling me “U MAD BRO?” 🙃) make it hard for me to focus on everything else, from clothing to character design… Because I think ANYTHING would look BAD in that pose 😝
100%
I definitely agree with the opening model issue and I'd say it's the one thing that (sue me) eldritch foundry beats heroforge in currently, having the site open on a model with heroic features and a heroic stance really does make a big difference.
It sure does, yeah. When I saw them both side by side my first inclination was also to think Eldritch Foundry looked far superior - it's only once you delve into the deeper customization options that you realize how much better Heroforge is, but that takes a few steps
How do i move the arm
@@Deleted.970 if you go into advanced posing, however derf here has made a video for people tobhelp them learn about posing, so I'd recommend checking that out
I would like to try eldritch foudry but credit card payment is not an option for me. and is it just me or is the eldritch foundry tool is way more buggy than heroforge?
I'd also love for the weight options to be better. I have a plus size character who looks great from a head on perspective, but the weight sliders don't affect the Y axis of the characters' thighs, so it looks ridiculous from a side view.
Also pleeeease can we get some new default face options, or even let us choose individual facial features. The default faces all being unappealing has definitely put off people I've recommended it to.
Fortunately, face customizer should be releasing within the next few months!
@@Derfholm Oh man, great to know! How exciting!
So true bestie. I remember fucking around with hero forge in high school but dropped it because it was simultaneously not robust enough at first glance but also too complex to use without a guide. The only reason I picked it up again is because my neighbor bought a 3d printer and one of your videos got recommended to me once randomly like 3 years ago and luckily I saved it to watch later.
great vid, and the og larper king is horrifying
The skin tones are also SO saturated. As a brown person, using the mid tone skins are either too light and orange to be on a human that isn’t sunburned, and the darker ones, while work for some people, don’t work at all for light brown people. There needs to be a desaturated, light brown tone that can be used for south Asians and middle eastern people
Agree 100%
I definitely agree, I remember when I first came to hero forge it took me WEEKS to find out how to use many of the features in it, mainly through your videos.
Agree 100%. First impressions are key. Ive had a bunch of buddies not like hero forge either or not give it a chance. Simple changes, like you state, could make a world of difference
a friend of mine is like why the F*ck are the hands so massive
@@devz3300 My daughter at (at 9yo) was mad because when she made herself, her hands were HUGE. Im hoping kitbashing fixes this
I also think a lot of the color schemes for themes need reworking. Newer users are less likely to come up with their own color schemes, so they'd be more likely to use one of the premade themes. The themes, however, don't look that good in my opinion. There are a lot of weird color combinations (I'm looking at you, chromatic chaos) and a lot of the textures, especially for cloth and leather, look really off. I think this would really help new users who want to color their minis without custom-coloring it stay.
The first character I made used entirely cloth paints until I learned that there were other options
My hope is that the Faces update will also change the default face, and ideally a lot of the default everything.
I agree wholeheartedly and it's worse now since face customizer dropped because they have that default goofy face pose too - which hinders creating a custom face if you don't realize that you should turn the face pose off to begin with. Face customizer is intimidating enough without that.
yep, I definitely agree
I’m not even a dnd guy but I recently used it to create video game characters and I really like it. Definitely agree with you.
I could not agree more. I had no idea of all that could be accomplished before finding your videos and joining the discord community. Anyone without a lot of free time is likely to get frustrated and move on before discovering all that the site has to offer.
Yeah, nothing like telling someone to try it out and having to give them a basic list of changes to make before they do anything else to turn them away.
Ain't that the truth
Agree with the default pose being a really bad intro to the program; it's just so... stiff. Like, I understand that you want people to be able to get a good look at each angle of a mini while designing, but the hero pose that you mention would do the same effect of being a good reference point without obscuring anything.
As for the proportions thing, honestly I'm having the exact opposite issue; I have a bunch of super duper toony characters where the proportions don't get extreme enough, so it becomes an issue of 'not cartoony enough for the people who want to make anime boys and super toony furries by default, not realistic enough for people who love grimdark grizzled knights by default'.
Hah, in general my overall approach to colors and everything else is pretty different from yours, but I think that just makes the fact we both agree on the fact heroforge really needs to make their first impression of their product/program better all the more salient; if the cartoony style with eyeburning colors aficionados (me) aren't satisfied, when a lot of the older chunkier outfits and pieces are marketed towards them, doesn't that just make it even more true that stuff needs to get fixed?
Considering that is the two genres I like, I just can't win. Fox that chases two rabbits, etc etc.
Another thing that I personally find a bit grating is the lack of ability to slim down the anthro legs, like I know there would probably be issues with snapping or w/e if you go too thin, but unless you really mess with stuff, there's a tendency where most of the older anthro legs either need a revamp or an update, because it's kinda difficult to make a delicate flouncy deer dude when the one hoofed leg option is very clearly designed for a beefy minotaur dude.
Also I genuinely hope that if they revamp the presets, they make it so there's options designed with anthro characters in mind, because having the starter presets have the bears have the human eye default... *shudders* Let me say, did not endear me to the program. At least they fixed the skin cat preset issue...
Heroforge... easy to learn, hard to master! XD
Everybody can try it for free... only few can explore all the options and sink undred hours of their free time creating awesome miniatures :P
I would even say to send them a message about this, they've added things because of users (the spinny is because of my husband, who would painstakingly make his own spinny gifs before it came out, and they said they were adding it on one of his reddit posts!) before, and if you tell them, they may actually implement these things.
The changes all make sense, and I agree that they should change all of these things asap! And you know, maybe make a large hand and a small hand available... Or just let me scale 'em.
I'm more let down in the physical quality of the model and how different it looks online vs when I get the mini.
i personally really visually like the cartoony option heroforge provides for minis (mostly because im a rather stylized 2d artist and like that i can actually try to match my style as opposed to classic minis). also, many minis arent super easy to read from further away imo so being cartoony is pretty helpful (not to mention easier to paint).
what bothers me is that theyre inconsistent about it. if you want the headsize to be more stylized why do my characters have to have pronounced realistic lips, why cant i toggle those (seriously, i hate making human characters in heroforge because the faces are really uncanny sometimes). why do the eyes need weird realistic tiny textures when the rest of the textures you can put on the model rarely have a 4th of the resolution. theres no other way to have minis in any other style than the classic semi realistic ones you see everywhere aside from straight up hiring a 3d artist, but they just cant really commit to either doing realistic or stylized or providing proper options for both so youre kinda just left with a mini that clashed with itself stylewise.
Not a bad take tbh
The hands thing. What do you guys do when making small characters?
Would be awesome if they had you set up this first impression for the new update.
Have you made a video showing the pose at 3:05?
Atleast its 1000x easier than moddeling it yourself in Maya,Blender,3ds Max
At least they changed the default outfit. It used to be a ripped one-shoulder tank top and loin cloth thing.
Hey Derf, could you please share the link to that preferred starting model?
Is there a link to that better default pose you showed? I would love to make that my default starter moving foward
Not sure if there's any direct link to it under any of my videos, BUT I do plan on making a posing video where I will be including that one and a lot more
Just doing my due diligence and commenting for the algorithm
I wasn't impressed first time I saw HeroForge but I stuck at it because it was the only thing available to me to create images of my RPG characters, which pushed me to persist and explore the options. I can understand why someone less nerdy than me would give up.
i agree especially the default pose part. can you provide a link for the pose at 3:05?
I'm sorry to say I did not save the pose :(
My personal gripes with Heroforge are as follows:
1) Lack of facial expressions (Face Customizer will fix this)
2) There are not nearly enough female hairstyles
3) Conversely, there are *too many* female costume pieces, despite the aforementioned lack of female hairstyles
4) Because it is focused on printing models, hand options are too limited
5) Also because it is focused on printing models, poses are limited to the point that you can't choose the positions of legs unless you use pre-set poses.
I don't quite understand why (afaik) they don't make this available as a tool for game developers.
That is also a very interesting point yeah. Another big core issue of Heroforge (to many) is that there's no incentive beyond your own creativity to really create models. Their partnership with Talespire and letting you import Heroforge models into that was a good starting point, but it could go a lot further -
Say some more tabletop games were created specifically with Heroforge models in mind, it would certainly bring a whole new audience in
@@Derfholm As an aspiring game developer, the first time I saw HF, I really thought it was a gamedev tool.
@@Derfholm how did you make it posing
Have you ever spoken directly to the HF developers about these things? I agree with all your statements. An why oh why are the weapons so oversized? Makes it all a bit ridiculous. I can use Photoshop to put better weapons and clothing on them, but what a joke. In the end, HF is good for getting some poses and facial expressions, but be prepared to have to finish the work in a separate program.
Somewhat, yes. However, the reasons the defaults are the way they are is because that is optimal for printing. That said, I know things print quite fine with different proportions etc as well so I still hold out hope they may be willing to update them one day
If heroforge would stop giving female models shovel-hands and chunky clothing I would buy prints from them directly
Question, are you able to access your own color library after the pro subscription ends, or is it inaccessible afterwards?
Unsure, I never unsubbed, but I assume it becomes unavailable
@@Derfholm You can access it, but can't add anything new to it
@@JaneXemylixa Interedasting
Also hello, been a long time since I saw you comment
@@Derfholm Hi. I've dipped back out of the community for a while I guess
Tried it for the first time today. Wasn’t put off by the default model. I’m used to changing it out in character creators immediately anyway, asking the most important question “does it have reptile races”? And yes it did. So I was good.
My biggest issue with the service is price. Seeing as you brought them up, Games Workshop, owners of Warhammer, typically sell a box of 10 minis for $50-70 CAD. That’s $5-7 per mini. And they are considered absurdly expensive even by Warhammer fans.
Hero Forge, costs $20 for ONE mini, $30 if you want a larger sized character. And that’s just for colourless plastic, premium plastic costs $10 extra, and full colour minis are kinda ridiculous.
That price wall is what’s going to drive the most people away. I’m not one of those people, having bought ten minis for one character in different poses/outfits. But I’m a fringe case, being an impulsive bastard with a shopping addiction and though not rich, am definitely upper middle-class with plenty to spend.
Your average TTRPG player isn’t gonna dish out $20 for their PC, let alone more for extra poses/characters, or even armies when so many cheaper alternatives exist. If I were to give someone advice for buying a mini for their PC, I’d just tell them to either look around on Etsy, or get one of those wizkids products.
Interesting take
Price is definitely the reason me and my friends only design and mess around on it. Plan on buying a few files and printing them ourselves or locally.
A personal idea I have for Hero Forge is that the facial expressions could be inproved a little: what about features for sadness or control of parts of the face aside from the eyes (lips and eyebrows)? Just my idea.
They're working on a more advanced facial customizer!
@@Derfholm Halleloo! I'll be waiting that feature.
Good video, totally agree
The one thing I disagree with about this is that the first thing I do when making a hero forge model is remove the close and mess with the proportions and skin color. Then I move to clothes and gear.
like five minutes ago a i discovered and opend hero forge for the first time done to models that i already think of as actuall people and now trying to do the same thing in blender because hero forge doesnt have a humenoid monkey and a bo staff
I tried to get some of my friends into hero forge when they asked me for a good website for what hero forge does, and everyone of them told me that the default poses uncanny and that it's overall confusing.
It's the truth :(
Super-bubba baby head grinds my gears.
hahah
I know that the "first impressions matter most" works for large numbers of people, but I myself didn't stop at my first impressions.
If any of us who actively use HF stopped at first impressions, then I don't think there'd be much of a HF community, so I am definitely in the same boat - but I still think better first impressions would be important for the community at large
If you can respond to this, How would I delete my hero forge account.
Hahah, sorry friend, I have no clue
And thats only the beginning of the shitty heroforge iceberg
the starting guy looks just like me.
know im working with my life, instead of against it.
I personally would like to see a cyclops race (for making a giant cyclops or the arimaspoi), lightsabers, big cat mounts, and of course a better default pose among many other things.
for me and my friends 8$ stl's are the problem :(
Yeah, it sucks :(
and the biggest one, heroforge OWNS your character, exactly like the bullshit WOTC was trying to pull by trashing the OGL
I'd say constant politics are the biggest problem. I never expected my subscription to pay for someone's abortion.
Eh?
@@HappyCynic They recently donated a lot of money to organizations that provide abortions.
@@Komix777 Good.
How does this relate to HeroForge?
@@titus4440 It doesn't.
The OP is a lunatic.
Personally, my biggest problem with Heroforge, and the thing that's stopped me from creating an account, is the horrific privacy policy. To quote the offending portions:
"We may disclose information we collect (including Site Usage Information and Personal Information) in the following ways to third parties, to the extent permitted by law:
...
To third party marketers, as permitted by law;" and
"If you would prefer that we not share your Personal Information with third-party marketers, please contact us at . Please understand that if you do request that we stop sharing your Personal Information with third parties for their direct marketing purposes, such request will only apply as of the date of your request, and we will not be responsible for any communications that you may receive from third parties that received your Personal Information prior to that request. In these cases, please opt out from or contact the third party directly."
In other words, if you create a Heroforge account, they can sell the information you gave them in creating the account to advertisers, and the only way to opt out of this is by sending them an email, which they would presumably only consider a valid request if you actually have an account. But by that point, you would have already given them your information, which they could easily have automatically sold the moment you clicked Sign Up.