@@suewang9210 I put the cusco rs LSD in the rear of my 03' wrx and it was very loud. I would reccoment it for motorsport use only. The have a few other more street friendly diffs that fit in the r160. This locker really is not very loud.
It's not even that bad. People exaggerate it. The Crosstrek isn't even that quiet of a car. I'm assuming you already have A/T or M/T and some other mods that make your car loud already what's more sound. The trade off now is you actually get performance gains.
I'm curious if you put that sound deadening acustic mat liner over the rear flooring of the car. I mean that seems like a cheap way to keep cabin noise down.
@@powerofyourbrains I had this installed in my SJ Diesel and i have to drive with window down and radio off and then try really hard to hear it in most situations. I was impressed how quite it operates.
Thanks for the video. I am assuming it is actually less noisy than it sounds due to the camera microphone having more gain in the human speech range? Cell phones and GoPro cameras seem to do that. Thanks for posting the video. Really would want one for the front differential too, obviously for off road use only. Definitely going to get on their waiting list for one for the rear though. The Russian version was sold on eBay before, but so far I haven't seen them there this year. Looking forward to seeing what you post next. If you make it to the Oklahoma and Texas panhandles, I can get time off to shoot video with my Yuneec Typhoon q500 4K quadcopter for you. It shoots beautifully smooth 4k video. Just getting into the scene now, but I have had several Subarus in the last 18 years. Miss my 68 DL wagon the most.
Yeah, that wagon is a rarity these days. Up next is an on-road evaluation of how the locker impacts daily driving in auto vs manual. A front locker would be cool, but with our supporting mods such as long travel it's kind of overkill. Meaning that we have entirely too much traction relative to the capability of our drivetrain lol. The audio is untampered with only a high and low cut, enough to make the buzzing and rumbling tolerable, equal between inside and outside shots. You're correct about the playback. On a desktop or car stereo with a good/full range it's much quieter. Appreciate the offer too. I'm from Texas myself and my Phantom has been on the fritz lately.
@@powerofyourbrains What part of Texas? I go down to Amarillo fairly often, and Tulsa, OK was fun when they let the floodgates open to town. Miles and miles of flooding made for some fun exploration.
Assuming you have the fa20 on one of the later model Foresters, you should have a 5-bolt open. Easy way to check is to put a jack under the rear diff, get the wheels in the air and spin them. If they don't move in the same direction then you have an open diff
russians making similar ones for R160 as well lock-right they allways locked too very similar to those torq. im curious so they never ever would stay locked on turns ? because i heard some people on other cars with similar design lockers saying driving car with them can be weird at times its acts just not same anymore. so maybe new learning needed to drive car with those kind of lockers. great video, hope more tests coming soon like get that locker to extreme hard work like uphill very slow ..
Check out our last video. Did slow up-hill to the hole in one go. If you've watched our other videos there you probably know its super challenging. More to come though, rest assured. What you're referring to about the lockup in turns is exactly what we'll be talking about next. I'll say that if you drive a manual then you'll need to change your style a bit to avoid it, although it's not as bad as I expected it would be. In autos there is a way to avoid partial lockup all together.
Interesting that there was a Russian-made locker. Makes me wonder what the material was though. Torq masters claims their hardened 9310 steel is several times harder than chromemoly axles, which is impressive.
@@powerofyourbrains That's good to hear, as I have kept to the automatics in Foresters since the earlier ones, at least, use an electric over hydraulic transfer clutch to engage the rear axle.
@@BDPr0ductions Yep. It's as simple as wiring a switch to the FWD. We configured our diff lock to revert to FWD instead of auto. Either or both works. You'll still have the clicking, but it's barely noticeable. On our last trip I only remembered it was there because of the confused expressions we got from the groups of SxSers we passed.
@@powerofyourbrains I have no worries over the clicking, that's what the one in the front of my F150 sounds like.. pretty much the same, just labeled Aussie Locker by the same manufacturer. Works beautifully. I was saying I like the electric control via PWM for the automatic rear transfer clutch. Messaged your Facebook user an image of the PWM module I use to keep it between 5 and 95%. I understand the front on a mostly front wheel drive that is street driven shouldn't be more than limited slip for drivability issues. Add a locker up front and it becomes an off-road only toy. I assume one day we will run into each other and share secrets.. When my new crank pulley gets here Monday I will get it in, then maybe make a video Tuesday or Wednesday showing the a few selected levels of transfer clutch from above. It rained pretty good tonight, and that will mean some mud to play in. Without a cameraman, I need the wind under 35MPH to hover my quadcopter for the best angles. Trying to keep anything long off your channel... If you have any interest in more precise control of transfer clutch control, I messaged the Facebook account. Thanks for all that you share here. Keep having fun.
It tends to lock up if you give throttle in the turn. How easily both wheels lock depends on tightness of the turn, how fast you're going, and how much throttle input you give.
No, open only I'm afraid. They don't sell your diesel stateside but I'd be shocked if an open diff with the same ratio couldn't be found at a local junker for pretty cheap. For the USDM Subaru uses just 2 casing styles and 3 ratios for almost all the diffs in their cars made over the last 25 years, so finding an open is easy even if you're 3 hours from the nearest medium-sized city like we are.
On the 2011 WRX VDC doesn't seem to make an impact at all. No word so far on X-mode/CVT models, but John Bloom out in Oregon is testing on 2013 and 2018 Crosstreks with X-mode now. We actually lent him Tyler's locker for the 2003 Forester, so that install is going to be delayed, but at least we'll know something about the later models soon. You can look John up on the MtnRoo Brotherhood FB page.
It will be interesting to find out what the system does. Im guessing a lot of the features of x-mode wont be triggered as there wont be slip detected. I dont know if the system brakes individual wheels or of it brakes diagonal pairs, if diagonal pairs it might hinder as the engine will need to fight x-modes braking on the rear wheels. It also possible the system might shit itself entirely as it will be seeing wheels turning faster than possible when cornering, but I think its unlikely that the system is going to be that sensitive.
@@SubaruOffRoad John didn't say much, but he did hint that X-mode seemed to cooperate just fine with the locker. Personally, I'd be surprised if it didn't cause at least some issues, but who knows. Subaru is very opaque about the degree to which VDC takes over in different vehicles. I've never really noticed the VDC in the WRX, but I have in other Subaru models. I don't think it matters regardless; just something to note I guess
@@SubaruOffRoad vdc its not just for wheel spin detection its for maintain car on straight line compare to wheels position etc , so its many things that VDC looks for there so its interesting how it would work if rear wheels would lock and suddenly cars line changed . it might throw codes on screen and its done. its very delicate . but then off road in mud or such when wheels could lock and car could go better on slow speeds it might be ok too. other cars with traction control and rear lockers similar to this like dusters works with traction control fine . but thats again on mud snow sand . it needs to not lock on main roads at all then its fine with VDC i think.
Nice video and better than others I have seen on this locker but will still have to dispute the explanation somewhat. This locker doesnt really lock, all it does is send 100% of torque to the slowest turning wheel and zero torque (well technically slight torque in the opposite direction) to the faster turning wheel (i.e. its completely unpowered). If both wheels are turning the same speed then torque is split between them. On road the inside tyre gets all the torque until you break traction then you get a sudden transfer of torque to the outer tyre causing the sudden oversteer shown at the end of the video.
Thanks! We've seen a few of your crazy river crossings as well - they're quite inspiring for idiots like us. I see what you're getting at, and I think we've arrived at a quantum particle physics discussion put in terms of differentials. You're point really depends on whether you consider lockup to be in any given instant or averaged over time. I haven't driven granny enough to know whether lockup occurs in a strait line at high speed, but the torque converter certainly has enough juice from a stop to cam the crosspin and cause lock up. Probably isn't as much as would be generated by differential wheel speeds, but it could chirp the tires on pavement if you gave it enough juice ("could" because we've since reverted the diff lock to drive on-road in FWD). The WRX is my car, and it does stay locked in a strait line at high speed as long as I'm willfully accelerating. I can tell when it locks from a slight change in steering weight, likely caused by the vLSD center. All that being said, it's not really fair to say the exact same applies to cars with half the power of the WRX. We'd love to have a selectable locker if we had a little more of that Subaru Off-Road money ;)
as i understand this locker allways locked just it unlocks when its needed on asphalt surface is it not ? russians who making lock-right locker made other version of it one-click locker they saying its not locked all times just locking when one wheel stopped or smt.
@@powerofyourbrains I guess what I am trying to say is that its not "locking" under power, all thats happening is the power is spinning the inside wheel until it reaches the same speed as the outside wheel at which point power is send to both wheels. If you had infinite traction on the inside wheel no matter how much power you sent to the diff it would never "lock" and the outer wheel would always ratchet faster with no torque going to it. A theoretical world but I am trying to explain how the "lockup" isnt really related to input power . On the selectable locker note my Air locker is more trouble than its worth at the moment, constantly leaking air so the compressor constantly runs. Pretty annoyed the seals failed so quickly...
@@SubaruOffRoad Sorry to hear that about the selectable locker, hopefully you'll find a fix. I'm not sure how much experience you have with the Torq locker, and I have no experience with Aussie locker, but I think we're missing each other talking about this concept. On the Torq locker there is just enough tolerance to allow one of the wheels to ratchet (about 4mm). However, the two sides of the locker have a cammed profile such that any acceleration applied pushes out on both sides of the locker equally. Once one wheel becomes locked, both are locked. I understand that may not be the case if driving on 3 wheels, but as soon as you goose the throttle enough it would be.
@@powerofyourbrains Yes the two are a very similar concept but the Torque locker is slightly superior design as it is mate to ratchet easier. Where you have made a mistake if your understanding is that you said the acceleration applied pushes out on both side equally. This is only true in a straight line. When cornering and one wheel is turning more slowly than the other the cam on the pin will only push outwards on the that wheel. The outside (faster wheel) will try turn faster than the pin doing the pushing and as such the cam will not act on this side. On this side the springs keep the little (4mm) drive teeth engaged between that half of the centre section and the side "gear" section but only with a little bit of force (not enough to provide drive), that makes these two pieces rotate together at the same rate with the wheel on that side. As this outside wheel is rotating faster than the carrier/pin it rotates the cam on centre piece away from the main drive pin so that the cam no longer acts at all. This rotation continues until the flat castle looking parts of the two centre sections contact this stops the faster turning centre piece from rotating further forwards stopping the other side of the main pin cam acting in the opposite direction. As the outside wheel is still trying to rotate faster the slight angle on the little 4mm teeth is enough to overpower the little springs and allow the drive "gear" section to jump one tooth forward. The only reason it may seem like its "locking" under acceleration is simply because you have overcome the traction of the inside wheel and thus both wheels now rotate at carier speed. With this locker its not possible for a wheel to ever rotate slower than the carrier.
The only thing keeping me from putting one on my lifted crosstrek is the clicking. I think its pretty loud
You who try the Cusco limit slip, it’s pretty good for both on and off-road from what I read
@@suewang9210 I put the cusco rs LSD in the rear of my 03' wrx and it was very loud. I would reccoment it for motorsport use only. The have a few other more street friendly diffs that fit in the r160. This locker really is not very loud.
It's not even that bad. People exaggerate it. The Crosstrek isn't even that quiet of a car. I'm assuming you already have A/T or M/T and some other mods that make your car loud already what's more sound. The trade off now is you actually get performance gains.
I'm curious if you put that sound deadening acustic mat liner over the rear flooring of the car. I mean that seems like a cheap way to keep cabin noise down.
How would the drivability be on snow covered roads as a daily?
Another awesome video guys thank you, I was a little worried regarding the clicking but that’s awesome
Thanks! Yeah, I don't think the clicking is bad at all. Difficult to even notice from inside the car
@@powerofyourbrains I had this installed in my SJ Diesel and i have to drive with window down and radio off and then try really hard to hear it in most situations. I was impressed how quite it operates.
Thanks for the video.
I am assuming it is actually less noisy than it sounds due to the camera microphone having more gain in the human speech range? Cell phones and GoPro cameras seem to do that.
Thanks for posting the video.
Really would want one for the front differential too, obviously for off road use only.
Definitely going to get on their waiting list for one for the rear though.
The Russian version was sold on eBay before, but so far I haven't seen them there this year.
Looking forward to seeing what you post next.
If you make it to the Oklahoma and Texas panhandles, I can get time off to shoot video with my Yuneec Typhoon q500 4K quadcopter for you. It shoots beautifully smooth 4k video.
Just getting into the scene now, but I have had several Subarus in the last 18 years. Miss my 68 DL wagon the most.
Yeah, that wagon is a rarity these days. Up next is an on-road evaluation of how the locker impacts daily driving in auto vs manual. A front locker would be cool, but with our supporting mods such as long travel it's kind of overkill. Meaning that we have entirely too much traction relative to the capability of our drivetrain lol. The audio is untampered with only a high and low cut, enough to make the buzzing and rumbling tolerable, equal between inside and outside shots. You're correct about the playback. On a desktop or car stereo with a good/full range it's much quieter. Appreciate the offer too. I'm from Texas myself and my Phantom has been on the fritz lately.
@@powerofyourbrains
What part of Texas?
I go down to Amarillo fairly often, and Tulsa, OK was fun when they let the floodgates open to town. Miles and miles of flooding made for some fun exploration.
@@BDPr0ductions Dallas area. Grew up in east TX
Is the casually off-roaded 2003 Forester an auto or manual trans ? do you know if the 2.0 xt automatic trans forester has a open rear dif?
Assuming you have the fa20 on one of the later model Foresters, you should have a 5-bolt open. Easy way to check is to put a jack under the rear diff, get the wheels in the air and spin them. If they don't move in the same direction then you have an open diff
It's manual. Granny is an auto though.
How long will those metal teeth last
Want to do this for my 2014 3.6 outback but idk the noise seems like it would be annoying. I want to do some nice dounts
Last night...i'm thinking abaut....wen snowing ...make the all turn with hard gas...the car turns on itself like before? Whot do you Think?
russians making similar ones for R160 as well lock-right they allways locked too very similar to those torq.
im curious so they never ever would stay locked on turns ? because i heard some people on other cars with similar design lockers saying driving car with them can be weird at times its acts just not same anymore. so maybe new learning needed to drive car with those kind of lockers.
great video, hope more tests coming soon like get that locker to extreme hard work like uphill very slow ..
Check out our last video. Did slow up-hill to the hole in one go. If you've watched our other videos there you probably know its super challenging. More to come though, rest assured. What you're referring to about the lockup in turns is exactly what we'll be talking about next. I'll say that if you drive a manual then you'll need to change your style a bit to avoid it, although it's not as bad as I expected it would be. In autos there is a way to avoid partial lockup all together.
Interesting that there was a Russian-made locker. Makes me wonder what the material was though. Torq masters claims their hardened 9310 steel is several times harder than chromemoly axles, which is impressive.
@@powerofyourbrains That's good to hear, as I have kept to the automatics in Foresters since the earlier ones, at least, use an electric over hydraulic transfer clutch to engage the rear axle.
@@BDPr0ductions Yep. It's as simple as wiring a switch to the FWD. We configured our diff lock to revert to FWD instead of auto. Either or both works. You'll still have the clicking, but it's barely noticeable. On our last trip I only remembered it was there because of the confused expressions we got from the groups of SxSers we passed.
@@powerofyourbrains I have no worries over the clicking, that's what the one in the front of my F150 sounds like.. pretty much the same, just labeled Aussie Locker by the same manufacturer.
Works beautifully.
I was saying I like the electric control via PWM for the automatic rear transfer clutch. Messaged your Facebook user an image of the PWM module I use to keep it between 5 and 95%.
I understand the front on a mostly front wheel drive that is street driven shouldn't be more than limited slip for drivability issues. Add a locker up front and it becomes an off-road only toy.
I assume one day we will run into each other and share secrets..
When my new crank pulley gets here Monday I will get it in, then maybe make a video Tuesday or Wednesday showing the a few selected levels of transfer clutch from above. It rained pretty good tonight, and that will mean some mud to play in.
Without a cameraman, I need the wind under 35MPH to hover my quadcopter for the best angles.
Trying to keep anything long off your channel... If you have any interest in more precise control of transfer clutch control, I messaged the Facebook account.
Thanks for all that you share here.
Keep having fun.
When will these be available to the public? And will they fit into the front differential? Keep up the good work!
Soon but not sure. Email info@torqmasters.com to reserve one if you don't want to wait. They fit the rear only.
I always figured that the outside wheel can always overdrive the inside wheel no matter if you're on or off the gas.. does that sound right?
It tends to lock up if you give throttle in the turn. How easily both wheels lock depends on tightness of the turn, how fast you're going, and how much throttle input you give.
Why does it need autolocker? I thought the car will apply brake to the spinning wheel so the wheel with traction can turn. Am I wrong?
Not older vehicles before 08 I believe
How does it work in a curve? Does it lock immediately?
Check out our on road review mate
Any long term update? On either granny or the wrx?
They are both bueno. We're gonna do a update on Granny soon.
Will these work with vlsd diff? I got 2010 outback manual diesel
No, open only I'm afraid. They don't sell your diesel stateside but I'd be shocked if an open diff with the same ratio couldn't be found at a local junker for pretty cheap. For the USDM Subaru uses just 2 casing styles and 3 ratios for almost all the diffs in their cars made over the last 25 years, so finding an open is easy even if you're 3 hours from the nearest medium-sized city like we are.
still as they said this locker will lock up in corners when accelerating. and you have VDC car there.
Any word on how these will work in modern Subarus (e.g. Forester SJ, XT) with their X-mode and whatnot?
On the 2011 WRX VDC doesn't seem to make an impact at all. No word so far on X-mode/CVT models, but John Bloom out in Oregon is testing on 2013 and 2018 Crosstreks with X-mode now. We actually lent him Tyler's locker for the 2003 Forester, so that install is going to be delayed, but at least we'll know something about the later models soon. You can look John up on the MtnRoo Brotherhood FB page.
It will be interesting to find out what the system does. Im guessing a lot of the features of x-mode wont be triggered as there wont be slip detected. I dont know if the system brakes individual wheels or of it brakes diagonal pairs, if diagonal pairs it might hinder as the engine will need to fight x-modes braking on the rear wheels. It also possible the system might shit itself entirely as it will be seeing wheels turning faster than possible when cornering, but I think its unlikely that the system is going to be that sensitive.
@@SubaruOffRoad John didn't say much, but he did hint that X-mode seemed to cooperate just fine with the locker. Personally, I'd be surprised if it didn't cause at least some issues, but who knows. Subaru is very opaque about the degree to which VDC takes over in different vehicles. I've never really noticed the VDC in the WRX, but I have in other Subaru models. I don't think it matters regardless; just something to note I guess
@@SubaruOffRoad yes it would be interesting how that works as VDC system would try to correct driving line when locker would lock wheels is it not ?
@@SubaruOffRoad vdc its not just for wheel spin detection its for maintain car on straight line compare to wheels position etc , so its many things that VDC looks for there so its interesting how it would work if rear wheels would lock and suddenly cars line changed . it might throw codes on screen and its done. its very delicate . but then off road in mud or such when wheels could lock and car could go better on slow speeds it might be ok too. other cars with traction control and rear lockers similar to this like dusters works with traction control fine . but thats again on mud snow sand .
it needs to not lock on main roads at all then its fine with VDC i think.
hello, I have a forester 1997 ej20j 2.0, which squeeze will ask me for help
Are you making a cow analogy? If so, I'm still not sure I understand
Nice video and better than others I have seen on this locker but will still have to dispute the explanation somewhat. This locker doesnt really lock, all it does is send 100% of torque to the slowest turning wheel and zero torque (well technically slight torque in the opposite direction) to the faster turning wheel (i.e. its completely unpowered). If both wheels are turning the same speed then torque is split between them. On road the inside tyre gets all the torque until you break traction then you get a sudden transfer of torque to the outer tyre causing the sudden oversteer shown at the end of the video.
Thanks! We've seen a few of your crazy river crossings as well - they're quite inspiring for idiots like us. I see what you're getting at, and I think we've arrived at a quantum particle physics discussion put in terms of differentials. You're point really depends on whether you consider lockup to be in any given instant or averaged over time. I haven't driven granny enough to know whether lockup occurs in a strait line at high speed, but the torque converter certainly has enough juice from a stop to cam the crosspin and cause lock up. Probably isn't as much as would be generated by differential wheel speeds, but it could chirp the tires on pavement if you gave it enough juice ("could" because we've since reverted the diff lock to drive on-road in FWD). The WRX is my car, and it does stay locked in a strait line at high speed as long as I'm willfully accelerating. I can tell when it locks from a slight change in steering weight, likely caused by the vLSD center. All that being said, it's not really fair to say the exact same applies to cars with half the power of the WRX. We'd love to have a selectable locker if we had a little more of that Subaru Off-Road money ;)
as i understand this locker allways locked just it unlocks when its needed on asphalt surface is it not ?
russians who making lock-right locker made other version of it one-click locker they saying its not locked all times just locking when one wheel stopped or smt.
@@powerofyourbrains I guess what I am trying to say is that its not "locking" under power, all thats happening is the power is spinning the inside wheel until it reaches the same speed as the outside wheel at which point power is send to both wheels. If you had infinite traction on the inside wheel no matter how much power you sent to the diff it would never "lock" and the outer wheel would always ratchet faster with no torque going to it. A theoretical world but I am trying to explain how the "lockup" isnt really related to input power . On the selectable locker note my Air locker is more trouble than its worth at the moment, constantly leaking air so the compressor constantly runs. Pretty annoyed the seals failed so quickly...
@@SubaruOffRoad Sorry to hear that about the selectable locker, hopefully you'll find a fix. I'm not sure how much experience you have with the Torq locker, and I have no experience with Aussie locker, but I think we're missing each other talking about this concept. On the Torq locker there is just enough tolerance to allow one of the wheels to ratchet (about 4mm). However, the two sides of the locker have a cammed profile such that any acceleration applied pushes out on both sides of the locker equally. Once one wheel becomes locked, both are locked. I understand that may not be the case if driving on 3 wheels, but as soon as you goose the throttle enough it would be.
@@powerofyourbrains Yes the two are a very similar concept but the Torque locker is slightly superior design as it is mate to ratchet easier. Where you have made a mistake if your understanding is that you said the acceleration applied pushes out on both side equally. This is only true in a straight line. When cornering and one wheel is turning more slowly than the other the cam on the pin will only push outwards on the that wheel. The outside (faster wheel) will try turn faster than the pin doing the pushing and as such the cam will not act on this side. On this side the springs keep the little (4mm) drive teeth engaged between that half of the centre section and the side "gear" section but only with a little bit of force (not enough to provide drive), that makes these two pieces rotate together at the same rate with the wheel on that side. As this outside wheel is rotating faster than the carrier/pin it rotates the cam on centre piece away from the main drive pin so that the cam no longer acts at all. This rotation continues until the flat castle looking parts of the two centre sections contact this stops the faster turning centre piece from rotating further forwards stopping the other side of the main pin cam acting in the opposite direction. As the outside wheel is still trying to rotate faster the slight angle on the little 4mm teeth is enough to overpower the little springs and allow the drive "gear" section to jump one tooth forward.
The only reason it may seem like its "locking" under acceleration is simply because you have overcome the traction of the inside wheel and thus both wheels now rotate at carier speed. With this locker its not possible for a wheel to ever rotate slower than the carrier.