Profoundly enlightening discussion. Jazakallahu khayr. A lot of Westerners and Christian descendants of Balkan states are anti-Ottoman. We need more Islamic academic counter material.
The Ḥanbalite authority Marʿī al-Karmī (d.1033/1624) has a treatise on the virtues of the Ottomans published in the collection of his works. He explains away their fratricide as repugnant according to the sacred law but perhaps required for political interests. He describes them of sound creed and defenders of the Sunni legacy.
54:20 Arguably, the mainstreaming of Wahhahism is responsible for the collective amnesia about the Ottomans. Wahhabism revives episodes of Abbasid sectarian conflicts oblivious to developments over time. ISIS as a child of Arab nationalism was an apt point.
Perhaps instead of having Muslim historians of "Islamic history", we should be readers of all human endeavour with an interpretation and focus. Seemingly idiosyncratic historic Muslim practices are best viewed in context of other practices in that time. Identifying themes for a cross-cultural study while Muslim would be more fruitful.
1:06:10 Modernity can imagine new states through further splitting but never from merging. It was a process over centuries that merged Turkey, Syria and Egypt under the Ottomans.
A great podcast to listen to. Very informative, entertaining and enlightening as always with Dr Yakoob. Loved every minute of it, and Muslims can take so much from it. Please do more podcasts with Dr Yakoob. JazakAllah
Fourth question: Why didn't the Ottomans properly get involved in Andalus? Especially in the 1568 Alpajurras revolt of the Muslims. Only their Algerian vassal sent a little help. This was before Lepanto, so ottomans still had naval supremacy. If almost 100,000 troops could be sent to Malta, why couldn't they be sent to Andalus? Especially since the ottomans are at war with the Hapsburgs, who hailed from Spain.... 100,000 Ottomans, plus native Andalusi Muslims revolting in Granada where they were still the vast Majority, and knew the land and Spanish tactics, as well as the powerful Ottoman Navy, and Hapsburg split attention due to Italian wars. All this would allow for the re-establishment of Granada. Perhaps even taking still Muslim majority Valencia also.
Question: Why were the populations of the Arab provinces so low? If the Ottoman empire were to be reunited today, it would have almost 500 million people. 60%, 300 million, being Arabs. But during the Ottoman empire, only around a third of the empire were Arabs... Some regions also seem to be severely underpopulated. In 1800, Europe had fourth its modern population, around 190 million. With the more developed states. The ottomans should've had at least a fifth of modern population. Giving around 100 million. The ottoman Balkans was around 1/5 or 1/4 of modern. At around 12 million. Anatolia was around 1/8, at 9.5 million But the Arab regions only had 12 million. Less than a 1/25, 4% of modern populations. Egypt only had a population of 3.5 - 4 million, 3% of modern. Lower than the Roman population almost 2000 years earlier... Even if modern Egypt is over populated, it should've at least had around 10-15 million. Algeria had 2.5 million, 5% of today. But Iraq is the absolute worst. Only 1 million people, 2%. Lower than the Abbasids 1000 years prior. Even 100 years later, in 1900 it still only had a population of 2 million. Only 4.5%. All figures from ourworldindata Why were the Arab provinces so much less developed then the Rumelian and Anatolian provinces? Egypt is extremely fertile, and the Nile is Navigable to Aswan, enabling more efficient riverine industry. And Mehmet Ali Pasha showed Egypt's potential when he began its modernization. Which Jean Batou says surpassed France in its GDP per capita... Similarly, Iraq has the potential to be very fertile. Though since the destruction of the Nahrawan Canal in 936, and the Mongol devastations, it requires significant investment to make it fertile once more. It's rivers Euphrates and Tigris are Navigable to Barbalissos and Cizre respectively. Iraq and Egypt also have strong trade connections, or at least the potential for that. The ottoman Maghreb is fairly fertile, yet had a smaller population then Belgium... Had the Arab populations been bigger, which they had the potential to do, this could've made them one of the largest empires on earth. 1/5 of modern, lower than European 1/4, would give 100 million in 1800. Almost double the English and French empires, including their colonies. 2.5 x HRE. And triple the Russian empire. Only Qing China and Maratha India being bigger. Solving the manpower problem you mentioned. Instead it had only around 25-30 million in 1800. With France proper or Preindustrial Japan being larger then the entire Ottoman empire....
21:00 downplaying their influence... Wow...I see it now.. It makes sense, think man, they never ever taught us about em.. Like they totally utterly erased them, like they treated them like a stain, a blemish.. And this is from everyone within..
38:12 unreal... That moment in history.. in the imagination at that time, Couldn't fathom ANYTHING outside of it. One .. and that's what we are all having problems grappling with till this day.. The disconnect.. Once upon a time that didn't exist.. Because One..
** 20:19 later period when it shifted.. emergence of splitting up/ divvying up land how's it legit then? Case: it was just symbolic, many provinces were basically already autonomous
Third question: Why didn't the ottomans play a greater role in the southern russian Khanates? They could've massively supported and given firearms and cannons to their Crimean vassal, so unite the Astrakhan, Kazan, Nogai, Qasim, even Sibir and maybe Kazakh Khanates. Reforming the Golden Horde. And creating a powerful Unified state which could easily re-vassalize their former Muscovite vassal. Preventing Russia from ever forming. Thus preventing the biggest Ottoman threat. Southern Russia + Ukraine also have huge resources. Far more than anything Austria-Hungary could provide. Since the Chernozem fields are some of the most fertile farmlands on earth, supporting over 200 million Russians and Ukrainians, with potential for more. There are also large Coal and mineral deposits. Most importantly it has huge powerful Navigable rivers. Allowing for large scale efficient waterpowered industry. Particularly Dneiper, Don, Volga, Irtysh/Ob. And perhaps even the powerful Yenisei and Lena, Deep within Siberia. Siberian Turkic allowing some intelligibility with Turks/Tatars. Making rule easier than Russians Beyond that, a reformed GoldenHorde, with allegiance to the Ottomans would allow much more successful attacks on Poland-Lithuania and Hungary. It would also strengthen Muslim strength in the east, in central Asia, and east Turkestan. Perhaps even Mongolia, due to Crimean Mongol lineage.
15:50 was it legit or based on nepotism? Apparently, outside of Najdi/British colonialist praxi, very few people*at that time* disputed that it was legit. R.Ridha & M.Abduh were critical of them, methodology wise but far from considering it illegitimate. That was the norm. Within 100 years, most didn't argue it once it was established. As always, never black & white. Many complexity, many gray areas, many shades of gray.
Profoundly enlightening discussion. Jazakallahu khayr. A lot of Westerners and Christian descendants of Balkan states are anti-Ottoman. We need more Islamic academic counter material.
Fantastic discussion. JazakAllah to the Ustad for this amazing podcast. I learnt a lot and it shifted my perspective of Uthaman khilafah.
48:47 ✔️
49:13✔️ that's the power of hindsight
An excellent discussion that requires no cigars.
Excellent discussion. Jazak Allah khair 👍🏻
favorite show so far
The Ḥanbalite authority Marʿī al-Karmī (d.1033/1624) has a treatise on the virtues of the Ottomans published in the collection of his works. He explains away their fratricide as repugnant according to the sacred law but perhaps required for political interests. He describes them of sound creed and defenders of the Sunni legacy.
54:20 Arguably, the mainstreaming of Wahhahism is responsible for the collective amnesia about the Ottomans. Wahhabism revives episodes of Abbasid sectarian conflicts oblivious to developments over time. ISIS as a child of Arab nationalism was an apt point.
Perhaps instead of having Muslim historians of "Islamic history", we should be readers of all human endeavour with an interpretation and focus. Seemingly idiosyncratic historic Muslim practices are best viewed in context of other practices in that time. Identifying themes for a cross-cultural study while Muslim would be more fruitful.
1:06:10 Modernity can imagine new states through further splitting but never from merging. It was a process over centuries that merged Turkey, Syria and Egypt under the Ottomans.
Imagination leads where reality follows.
1:07:24 In the Ottoman empire, different cities celebrated Eid on different days depending in sighting.
Jazak Allah khair, more history please 😊
Dr. Yakoob never ceases to amaze!
A great podcast to listen to. Very informative, entertaining and enlightening as always with Dr Yakoob. Loved every minute of it, and Muslims can take so much from it. Please do more podcasts with Dr Yakoob. JazakAllah
The colonial Powers attitude to the Ottomans was" damn if you dont and damn is you do" reforms. They whanted the Ottoman Empire Gone into history.
Good discussion
But Dr Yakoob was being interrupted way too much.
❤
Fourth question:
Why didn't the Ottomans properly get involved in Andalus?
Especially in the 1568 Alpajurras revolt of the Muslims.
Only their Algerian vassal sent a little help.
This was before Lepanto, so ottomans still had naval supremacy.
If almost 100,000 troops could be sent to Malta, why couldn't they be sent to Andalus?
Especially since the ottomans are at war with the Hapsburgs, who hailed from Spain....
100,000 Ottomans, plus native Andalusi Muslims revolting in Granada where they were still the vast Majority, and knew the land and Spanish tactics, as well as the powerful Ottoman Navy, and Hapsburg split attention due to Italian wars.
All this would allow for the re-establishment of Granada.
Perhaps even taking still Muslim majority Valencia also.
32:07 ... unfreaking real .. still need reminder
Question:
Why were the populations of the Arab provinces so low?
If the Ottoman empire were to be reunited today, it would have almost 500 million people.
60%, 300 million, being Arabs.
But during the Ottoman empire, only around a third of the empire were Arabs...
Some regions also seem to be severely underpopulated.
In 1800, Europe had fourth its modern population, around 190 million.
With the more developed states.
The ottomans should've had at least a fifth of modern population. Giving around 100 million.
The ottoman Balkans was around 1/5 or 1/4 of modern. At around 12 million.
Anatolia was around 1/8, at 9.5 million
But the Arab regions only had 12 million. Less than a 1/25, 4% of modern populations.
Egypt only had a population of 3.5 - 4 million, 3% of modern. Lower than the Roman population almost 2000 years earlier...
Even if modern Egypt is over populated, it should've at least had around 10-15 million.
Algeria had 2.5 million, 5% of today.
But Iraq is the absolute worst. Only 1 million people, 2%. Lower than the Abbasids 1000 years prior.
Even 100 years later, in 1900 it still only had a population of 2 million. Only 4.5%.
All figures from ourworldindata
Why were the Arab provinces so much less developed then the Rumelian and Anatolian provinces?
Egypt is extremely fertile, and the Nile is Navigable to Aswan, enabling more efficient riverine industry.
And Mehmet Ali Pasha showed Egypt's potential when he began its modernization. Which Jean Batou says surpassed France in its GDP per capita...
Similarly, Iraq has the potential to be very fertile. Though since the destruction of the Nahrawan Canal in 936, and the Mongol devastations, it requires significant investment to make it fertile once more.
It's rivers Euphrates and Tigris are Navigable to Barbalissos and Cizre respectively.
Iraq and Egypt also have strong trade connections, or at least the potential for that.
The ottoman Maghreb is fairly fertile, yet had a smaller population then Belgium...
Had the Arab populations been bigger, which they had the potential to do, this could've made them one of the largest empires on earth.
1/5 of modern, lower than European 1/4, would give 100 million in 1800.
Almost double the English and French empires, including their colonies.
2.5 x HRE. And triple the Russian empire.
Only Qing China and Maratha India being bigger.
Solving the manpower problem you mentioned.
Instead it had only around 25-30 million in 1800.
With France proper or Preindustrial Japan being larger then the entire Ottoman empire....
21:00 downplaying their influence... Wow...I see it now.. It makes sense, think man, they never ever taught us about em.. Like they totally utterly erased them, like they treated them like a stain, a blemish.. And this is from everyone within..
38:12 unreal... That moment in history.. in the imagination at that time, Couldn't fathom ANYTHING outside of it. One ..
and that's what we are all having problems grappling with till this day.. The disconnect.. Once upon a time that didn't exist.. Because One..
Fantastic podcast. Jazakumullahu khayran to you all. 🤲❤️
Dont forget,the Ottomans started as Beylik,Into Sultanite,into Ceasardom,into Padishah,then into Khalifat.
** 20:19 later period when it shifted.. emergence of splitting up/ divvying up land how's it legit then? Case: it was just symbolic, many provinces were basically already autonomous
Third question:
Why didn't the ottomans play a greater role in the southern russian Khanates?
They could've massively supported and given firearms and cannons to their Crimean vassal, so unite the Astrakhan, Kazan, Nogai, Qasim, even Sibir and maybe Kazakh Khanates.
Reforming the Golden Horde. And creating a powerful Unified state which could easily re-vassalize their former Muscovite vassal.
Preventing Russia from ever forming. Thus preventing the biggest Ottoman threat.
Southern Russia + Ukraine also have huge resources. Far more than anything Austria-Hungary could provide.
Since the Chernozem fields are some of the most fertile farmlands on earth, supporting over 200 million Russians and Ukrainians, with potential for more.
There are also large Coal and mineral deposits.
Most importantly it has huge powerful Navigable rivers. Allowing for large scale efficient waterpowered industry.
Particularly Dneiper, Don, Volga, Irtysh/Ob.
And perhaps even the powerful Yenisei and Lena, Deep within Siberia. Siberian Turkic allowing some intelligibility with Turks/Tatars. Making rule easier than Russians
Beyond that, a reformed GoldenHorde, with allegiance to the Ottomans would allow much more successful attacks on Poland-Lithuania and Hungary.
It would also strengthen Muslim strength in the east, in central Asia, and east Turkestan.
Perhaps even Mongolia, due to Crimean Mongol lineage.
15:50 was it legit or based on nepotism? Apparently, outside of Najdi/British colonialist praxi, very few people*at that time* disputed that it was legit.
R.Ridha & M.Abduh were critical of them, methodology wise but far from considering it illegitimate. That was the norm. Within 100 years, most didn't argue it once it was established.
As always, never black & white. Many complexity, many gray areas, many shades of gray.
paypal email?
themadmamluks@gmail.com - jazakallah khair!
@@TheMadMamluks jazak Allah khair!