What a breath of fresh air! You've managed to, in this one video, perfectly explain why so many players are having crap sounding presets - and how to prevent this. It's a hot topic currently - there's a lot of internet/youtube noise discussing these issues, in particular, focusing on setting the Gain knob correctly in your audio interface when using plugins e.g. BIAS, TONEX plugin, S-Gear, Neural DSP etc. 'Established protocol' used to be crank the audio interface gain all the way up till clipping then turn back a little for headroom. With plugins/digital systems this is (now we're told) wrong, and in fact, most require zero gain on that knob (INST level of course). The problem is...those damn plugin developers didn't tell anyone, that is, appart from the channel owners of all those fantastic sounding youtube demos, demos that persuaded us to buy the products! Again, thanks for this important video. Subbed!
Dude this was super helpful, thank you! I still can't get over how good Tonex sounds with drives and effects running into it. To my ears it's leading the market in that regard
Great video. Thank you.I'm about six decades into the guitar and always looking to move forward . I'm using the ToneX into an HX Stomp HL for both church and secular gigs. Pretty happy with the sound i'm getting but your video allowed me to tweak a couple of things that have made a huge difference.
Little tip, if u dont want to always have to adjust the global trim input. Set it to 0 leave it and for each captute increase the gain. This has the exact same effect :) and that way u can save each preset so not constantly changing global settings per capture.
Ok, sincere question--is increasing the gain on the capture the exact same as adjusting the global input trim? I know you just said it is...but looking for further evidence haha.
Hi, thanks! It's a good point from your perspective; however, some music styles require the guitar to be "crystal clean" while also being heavy or full-bodied. So the OD and DS tones should come from pedals, as we always need to return to the "crystal clean".
Yep yep, I agree with you for sure. For some styles and instances, that is absolutely the way to go. And there are those OD pedals out there designed for that purpose that nail it! This video was primarily aimed at the genre I swim in, but for sure there are different approaches that work great.
This is golden, I always used the L2 compressor to go hotter into the ToneX but it never occured to me to just increase the input gain of the ToneX itself a bit.
Thanks for the great videoS I have this problem, After 2-3 months with Tonex Pedal, I find the problem is with HiGain tones and Imput Trim We know we need to adjust Trim in / Input Trim on the pedal to match the tone, the feeling, the scoop, and the beefy tone, etc etc to sound like the audio sample created by the author for example on ToneNet or Premium tones where you can hear the real tone. for Hi-Gain tones I need ( and lots of people maybe go to +15 ) to add at least +10 to +12db in the pedal trim in to match the audio demo from the Tone author with your guitar (depends on your guitar pickups but from +10 to +12 and maybe more), It clips a lot ( this is another BIG issue) . SO, when you use a clean tone with Input Trim +12db or more that tone comes saturated with distortion, oviusly. Other test, If you try to match the tone with the Tonex software audio demo " like "Wood" or "Galop" or any other guitar sample of the list" you only need around +4, but is lack of the feeling of the real tone created by the author that come with the audio sample. So, in other words, * We need an update on the pedal and software so we can add a dedicated Input Trim or Trim-In parameter for each tone / preset / profile. Also you can keep the global parameter. OR * we need 2 tonex pedals, one for Hi-Gain tones and another for clean and drive tones. thats CRAZY !!! That's why people who use only clean and drive tones are very happy with Tonex!!!!! A separate unit to handle the Gain like some, is not nice or not handy, for example a gain padal to boost Hi-Gain tones. Ik Multimedia is doing something about this.
I'm wondering if possibly you've got the input set incorrectly in the software, making your hardware unit seem different. The software relies on the gain of your audio interface (assuming you're using something different than the ToneX pedal itself as an interface) and also the Input gain setting in the lower left of the window. Perhaps there's an issue there.
@@thetoneshepherd thanks for ansswer... Tonex software is in 0, tonex pedal is in 8-10 or sometimes 12, what you do with the booster pedal, is what I do adjusting the input trim-in in the tonex pedal from 8 to 12 so hiGain tones sound greatand exactly to the tone creator sample or how is supposed to sound, or how i like it. so, input trim at 12 sounds great with hi-gain tones, but you change to a clean tone, and is dirt, and distorted. A boost pedal like you have solves the problem but ... If Im in a clean tone in Tonex, with the booster off, and I switch to a higher tone in Tonex I also have to turn on the boost, and viceversa, like a tap dancer LOL. I think the input trim needs to be a parameter inside of each tone or preset so you can handle as you want, becasue also the trim-in depend on your guitar pickups. That is a feature I want to see in the next pedal firmware upgrade.
Very helpful tips. The one about using a Compressor to even out the Inputs from very different Pickups might also work on my HX Stomp to even out the transitions between some big changes in Snapshots that sound jarring. Thanks
I just got my TONEX this week about 3 days ago and I am loving it! Oh I have this running into my amps effects loop return and using a simple Mooer preamp Gold 012 pedal in line with a BOSS GE7 EQ and a Mooer Radar pedal. Believe it or not, its sounds AMAZING! Yes I am using all my regular pedals like delays and reverb HOF2, phaser, etc... I am loving this thing!
Hello I recently purchased Tonex. I saw your video during various settings and bought 2 capture today. It's so nice. Please continue to make good screenshots. Thank you.
Last week I experienced the "headroom" compression thing on my tonex. I have made good captures of my personal 'boutique' Jeff Andrews' Amps - so I want to use them. I found the clean and eob captures really took to my pedals. You explanation is AWESOME and should be of great help to those who want to use tonex live on a pedalboard. Question: How do you use expression pedal in your rig? I can either use it to control the Tonex MOD.VOL or use a standard volume pedal going into my rig. What do you recommend?
Glad you found this helpful Ty! I don't use an expression pedal but I do have a regular volume pedal on my board that I use, but not to control the amp per-se, more for ambient reverb swells and as a mute for tuning.
@@thetoneshepherd In my ideal rig I would have a pedal controlling overall volume, and then another pedal for the wet mix. However I am constrained to size because we play on a tiny stage. Thank you so much brother
Thanks for sharing. Fully agree on the efforts needed to adjust to the tone model. Generally, I think we should aim at hitting the tone model with a guitar signal same as if we would hit the real amp, which in most cases means NOT to increase input trim (or input gain on the interface if you use the Tonex plugin). In the beginning I aimed at a typical input level of -12db into the DAW, and wondered why most amps were pushed over the top. Now I turn that gain knob on the interface all the way down (-24db) and most tone models sound amazing. Personally, I use different guitars with different pickups because they sound different, thus, I don't use Comp/EQ to match guitar tone, only to get the best out of each guitar and tone model in it's own right.
Marc, your theory is correct with the exception that the manner in which different people go about creating captures has variances that adjusting the trim can help with. And, to be fair, in a real world if you were auditioning multiple amps you would need to turn certain amps’ gain knobs up or down depending on the nature of that amp. However, one important point I forgot to make in this video that changes things a bit is that the function of the Gain (per preset) and the Input Trim is the exact same-they both simply adjust clean input into the capture. So, you can safely leave your input trim where you feel is a good middle ground for all your guitars and then adjust the Gain on each preset to tase.
So true about modern young players getting "lazy". Haha - i remember back in the day we had to figure out how to get a somewhat decent tone out of cheap, lame amps at our school. Because those were the only amps we had acces too! Now days it's, luckily, very very different. I read something similar about the tonex software being a nightmare to set up and run and so forth - man that kid should have tried windows95 back in the day.. Suck it up guys - hard work still pays off;)
All those "tweaks" certainly work great and would be useful in the studio but very awkward or impossible in a live setting if one were switching captures for different songs.
Great video. Super helpful. The thing that still confuses me is the LED color when setting the input trim on the tonex one. If I set it to taste and still in the green with no effects, my overdrive pedals push it into the red. Am I losing signal to clipping when it goes to red?
Great video Devan. I'm curious why you avoid using the gain/drive sounds from your pedals, in favor of using them more as volume boosts into the amp. Do you just prefer the sound of amp drive? Doesn't that kinda negate the point of different styles of drive pedals?
I just feel like when you increase the level of Gain on a pedal it can sound unnatural at times. Not always. But I just prefer the sound of my amps boosted, that's all. Even with the drive pedals acting more like boosts, they definitely still have their "flavor" added, even if the Gain is lower than usual.
@@thetoneshepherd I guess that's true; on the pedal you're increasing the volume output of the "affected" sound, so it does impart its sound before boosting, that makes sense.
Would it make sense to set Global input trim to say 0db ,leave it alone and do not touch it again then set up presets for each guitar adding gain at the tonex amp only, if needed, then saving that to each preset? Maybe, for example having a strat single coil preset block and a les paul humbucker preset block sorta thing?
Great video! 🤜🏻🤛🏻 I have been going back and forth from Dual ToneX and my UAFX Dream constantly lately. I upped my Input Trim and it definitely helped with some captures that seemed a little lifeless to me. I'm still trying to get my wet effects to sound as good as they do going into my Dream. I even tried some Dream captures but haven't been able to get it quite the same. I've been very curious to try some DI captures going into a UAFX Ox Stomp. 🤔
This is the blessing and curse with ToneX, the right capture is so important and they're ALL different. Unlike a "modeler" where you have much more control over the individual parameters. But keep searching! That's part of the frustrating fun of it all haha
On point on the amp and pedal tandem. Thank you. Imma gonna go re-do my foot set up and love my old amp again hehe. Awesome video. Cheers from the Philippines 🤝
I’ve purchased your AC30 capture and it sounds great! However the download says V1 and I notice in your video here it says API3 V3. Is there an updated capture and how do I get ut if so? Great video btw!
Thanks for your support! But no, the “V3” in this video is when I was still in the test phase. I renamed the more recent release as V1 to keep things consistent with the Prosonic naming convention. You do have the most current version. But I hope to add more captures soon (which you’ll get for free) so stay on the lookout for those on Instagram.
Thank you for the helpful tips. Quick question, what is your preferred way to use the tonex for sound in the room? Do you like tonex-> power amp -> real cab? Or frfr instead? So far, I’ve tried with headphones and that sounds great but when I play through my studio monitors, it’s just looses the feel and and it gets boomy. Thanks!
"This video is sponsored by...... My own personal opinion" I swear I laughed so hard, Thanks for the video I was just getting ready to message you, for tips as I am about to start using my tone x
One trick I’ve found useful, since so many of the captures (even the premium ones from IK Multimedia) have such massive volume differences with identical trim settings, which is incredibly annoying btw, is to use the compressor in Tonex to adjust the volume per preset. I’ve set up presets for the same amp (usually the Dumble) but for each guitar I use. My Les Paul with P-90s will overdrive every amp and also makes the captures loud. My Strat has Ron Ellis pickups which are low output and some captures are just anemic in the volume department. My G&L telecaster is right in the middle. So three different presets just to get the volume to be consistent between guitars so I don’t have to fiddle too much with the pedal itself.
Turning the input trim way down does give more headroom. I don’t change the global setting though, I adjust the input trim to sound good with all my guitars and then adjust the gain and save the preset where it sounds the way I want it.
Yep. This is the way. I've been doing this more lately. Jason Sadites knows his stuff as I'm sure you've found. Turning the trim down to 0 or -3 and turning the Gain up to 8 or 10 yields the same tone with increased headroom: ruclips.net/video/5S8KpTpiN5I/видео.htmlsi=0HQEppfe2k_H-Sr6
How do you handle sound quality degradation of the Tonex when running it thru the loop of other pedals/multi fx? its a really noticeable drop of dynamic/bite/presence and cant seem to find a solution. Thanks for the video too, it was helpful!
I have had that issue with my HX Stomp, what are you running it in the loop of? My GT1000 Core is significantly better (clearer, more depth, 3d?) but with both I have to make sure that the input/output level of the loops is set right. Boss has 0-200 level for in and out and the Stomp has instrument/line level.
Thanks for sharing! I have a question…those tones (amps) created or captured by others which may be tagged with a price or not, might sound dramatically different not using the cab sim that comes with it and instead using a power amp and a real cab?
All the ToneX captures I shared in this video are captures that are intended to have the amp/cab/mic configuration baked in. Of course ToneX allows you to remove the cab and use your own IR or other cab model (or a power amp) but, again, all these captures are intended to be used how I used them in the video. Yes, they would sound much different if you used a different cab, but the tones the original creators had in mind have the cab they intended already there...if that makes sense.
First time to the channel, very good content! I have a variety of guitars to choose from to play on Sunday but the Duesy is on constant rotation. Mine is a blue sparkle, the trem is best in class and the Grand Vintage HB is a great pick up. I'm dipping a toe into the modeling world, after playing through an amp mic'd in an isocab offstage in the rack room. I was not a fan of early Line 6 stuff but I know the Helix is a different animal. The Tonex looks interesting.
Thanks my friend. I believe if you’re used to a cab miced up in isolation you’ll love ToneX. You could even just capture your own setup and if done right won’t be able to tell the difference in tone at all. It’s really good!
I had my trim +5 to as high as +12 with my Tele. I’ve lowered it down to +2 for the PRS CE that I recently got. I do find that most worship guitarist nowadays have not really have an opportunity to play an actual amp for a while and auditioning different drives with the amp. Not that it’s a bad thing but just an observation that I notice when I see people talk about these digital modelling
Great video. My main borad is the Fractal FM9. I just bought the ToneX to test it out. It seems to be a challange to connect (activate) it to the computer. The activation light stays on red. I have read that more people have this issue. I will have to contact Ik Multimedia about this. Do you use the internal presets too? Which one would you recommend (I play in a worship band)?
Thanks! Sorry to hear you’re having issues with your pedal. I should get back to you pretty quick if you reach out to them. Now, I’m a little biased, but I use my own personal captures on my rig for worship. A good starting point would be the AC30 or the Prosonic! www.thetoneshepherd.com/store
Great video Brother! Do you have the stereo Tonex (x2) first thing after compressor, or at the end of the signal chain? I'm trying different ways to see how it affects playability and noise, and this video is perfect timing! New Subscriber!
Thanks for the sub!! My exact pedal chain is referenced in the description of the video if you want a more detailed answer, but I run Guitar > Comp > Drives > Modulation > Delay > Reverb > ToneX's.
Do you think using any input trim/gain combination would be good enough to make all the out-of-the-box models in the tonex sound primarily good with guitar straight in?
Not necessarily. Gain staging is super important, but how the tone model was captured is the most important. The kind of amplifier, the speaker, the mic position, etc. All of those things are of first importance. Then, once you have captured a really good sound, then gain staging is next. But proper gain staging is not going to make up for an amp that wasn’t captured to the best of its ability, or was captured at settings that aren’t ideal for your genre.
@@thetoneshepherd Right, so back to these models that come with the tonex pedal, most of them sound like tin with any of my guitars. Clean tone presets are okayish, but anything drive and overdrive sounds like tin = (
@@manuelaguilar8060 that’s where the beauty of aftermarket stuff comes. I have an AC30 for sale on my website, there are tons of great captures from alter amp works, worship tutorials, tone factor, the studio rats, etc. But I agree, the stock ones aren’t that great, at least to me, the few that I’ve tried
Great Video I'm just curious do you adjust the compression gain and the compression level on the Tonex pedal itself? I found the captures I'm using are really low output if I don't up the Compression Gain and compression level on the Tonex . Any advice would be greatly appreciated. God Bless Dave
Thanks Dave. So, funny you ask this, I just tried tweaking my main amp (my AC30) and lowered the gain and added the compressor to taste for the purpose of having a very very "clean" amp tone that wasn't wimpy and this totally did the trick! Previously I hadn't ever used compression on the ToneX but I may start trying it a bit. Seems to work really well. However, to answer your specific question about volume compensation, if I need a capture to simply be louder, I'll use the Model Volume instead of the compressor gain. I don't think I'd want the compressor adding the gain...but who knows!? Now, as far as adjusting the Gain as an alternative to adjusting the Input Trim, yes, absolutely. I learned from this video (watch at 17min) how those two controls sound identical. ruclips.net/video/6UdV5zNokIg/видео.html
Not a ToneX user, so this might be a silly question, but does input trim not change from preset to preset? Is it, for instance, like a global setting on the HX Stomp or Helix? Really loved this video btw!!
Not a silly question! On the ToneX, Input Trim is a global setting. You can adjust the “Gain” on each amp but the verdict’s still out if that has the exact same effect as adjusting the Input Trim.
I bought a bunch of compressors to do some AB testing and also make an upcoming video...but I'm really digging the Squish As. And the visual feedback is so valuable to me.
@@thetoneshepherd I have the Cali 76 now. It just seems to my ear that it adds some high end which can be an issue with a bright guitar. I thought the Squish As sounded good with your rig.
I'm learning that I really do love a comp that has a tone knob on it. It's allllmost giving me the ability to ditch my always-on EQ...almost. But as far as the Cali76, after trying the Neutron Compressor (you'll see in my vid soon), the Squish As, and the Cali side by side, the shine wore off on the Cali a bit. It's still a killer comp, but these others hold up.
I think one advantage of the Cali 76 is that it has a 1 meg input where the Squish As has 500K. I guess the proof will be in the upcoming video. I look forward to seeing it.
It’s still on there…but not being used at the moment. It still rocks, but I switched over to using the Revenant as my always-on that allows me to EQ more precisely than the Secret Pre. However… i’ve been playing with different compression pedals and the compression pedals that have tone knobs on them might be good enough for me to remove the revenant and keep the secret pre. Lots of things I’m sorting through at the moment. Haha
😂 gotcha! I’m sure you’ve heard about the Jackson audio bloom. It really helps with balancing out my different guitars. It has a 3 band eq that’s very useful, a boost, a second compressor plus everything is midi controlable and it sounds great. If you haven’t tried it out definitely recommend :)
@@Davidvs91 Yep, I had the Bloom for a long time before I ended up with the Cali76. To me the Cali was a much much better comp and I also had a Prism at the same time which gave me the EQ stuff I needed at the time. Now I’m back to trying new things haha. Always searching!
Curious on where the Microcosm is placed in the chain! Have one myself and currently placing it at the end of the chain, would like to try placing it after mods before delay/reverb
I’ve got mine right before mod/delay/verb. Mostly due to necessity. I’ll have to play with it more once I rewire my whole board. But it’ll definitely come before my reverb no matter what. I have a few presets that sound really good with reverb after.
I just got the ToneX One and was not impressed at all with the sound until i configured the global input to about -2. Really weird that it is so hot by default. Makes no sense.
Yeah I've heard it ships with 15db by default? Can't confirm this 100% but regardless, Input Trim is the key to making sure the captures sound as intended!
I don't get the impression that the stock Tonex amps suck... However with it really really shines... Is with the third party amp captures. Find some good ones and do a blind test. It's ridiculously good. And it handles changes in volumes and dynamics like a real amp
My title was a little click bait 🙃 I, too, think that most captures are great. In fact that’s what I’m trying to explain in this video. Depending on how you approach them, most captures can be usable. But I’d still agree that third-party captures are where it’s at.
Here is The Tip. Take a clean ToneX model and try to drive the hell out of it. You find that some of the clean models are such that they are delicious when pushed hard. Even more so than drive ones. Some clip in digital manner but the system has the ability in it to not to do so. I don't still know if it is an accident or is the particular clean model designed to be boostable. One such boostable model in ToneX Max is Clean Grit to test what I mean. Boost the hell out of it like 40db with Blue Cat free gain plugin and it still works. It might be totally different from original meaning but I'm not sure. I made one ultra clean capture(direct out to direct in) and it clipped in very harsh digital manner like expected still being clean at lower levels.
About to give up... Just tried more than 100 captures and all sounded muffled compared to a Palladium pedal, my mate let me borrow his after he pointed out I was sounding boxed/muffled and I did not believe him until I compared both... night day difference.
Dope video. I totally agree! I’m sorta old (black don’t crack haha) so I remember many years ago when a fantastic amplifier was a 2k purchase and you had to set it in another room so you couldn’t make tweaks to it on the fly. The idea of switching captures mid set, or using multiple settings of the same capture would be unheard of for most musicians until the advent of modeling/capturing/profiling. And even then, most of us couldn’t afford a Matchless DC30 or even have the privilege to try one and now we can have reasonably accurate pictures of their tones. The kids these days are spoiled!
I just like the ability to capture my own amps. But the Dream/Ruby are different things-modelers meant to recreate all the parameters of a specific amp. The tonex is a “capture box” that gives you the exact tone of a mic’d amp at particular settings.
@@thetoneshepherd I have tried both. I think I’m just simply satisfied with the tone the Dream and the Ruby give me. I was just curious if you ever used that setup.
Yes, I have used pretty much all of the popular options and ToneX reigns supreme for me. But the Ruby/Dream were fun too. Truth is, you can get amazing tone with any of those options
Soo tried the Tonex One and dialed it in and now I jumped ship on the UA stuff… You were right I was wrong. You’re the best and I am the worst lol thanks for helping me give it a second look.
You clean sound with and with out the boost pedal is substantially louder than your drive volume and your drive sound is already super saturated in over drive that your just adding mush with the boost pedal.
All sounds great in my house with 8db input trim in my tonex, but in church with -1db input my signal clips when using an overdrive, any help please? thanks
Perhaps you're not clipping the ToneX pedal but rather the sound board input? Check with your sound tech and see if your signal is going into the red when you kick on your overdrive. I find, when using the ToneX and a Line Isolator like the Pinstripes DISO or the Walrus Canvas, my signal being sent to the board is crazy hot. They have my gain at 0 and still have the fader down a good bit. But that's not a bad thing so long as it's not clipping at the console.
Even with the update a few months back, I still find for my guitars that increasing the Global trim to +8.5db is the level the captures I use respond to best.
Ok but show us how you're using the Microcosm. And dial in those 6 (or your favorite 6-10 captures) and do a part 2 of Six Captures side by side cause that was helpful to hear them in comparison.
The problem is many of the 3rd party vendors don’t tell you where to set the input trim. I suspect many of them aren’t even aware of the input trim issue on the pedal, as they test their captures using the software. There can be such a big swing in input trim settings from each user/vendor that switching between these is not workable. Kemper, Quad Cortex and more recently Tonocracy address this problem during the capture process. So the profiles/captures on those devices react like an amp would. So you know the captures on those devices are responding as per the settings and response of the amp captured. IK multimedia don’t even seem to acknowledge that this is a problem, so I imagine they won’t provide a solution for it anytime soon.
they really can’t tell you what the input trim should be because it’s based on your guitar output and any pedals that is in front of it … and what sound you want to get.
It's true. It really does depend on the guitar. And @davidkennedy2541 I found this great video by Jason Sadies who demonstrates how adjusting the Gain on a tone model is basically the same thing as adjusting input trim. Start the video at 17min. It's great. This way, you can confidently set different amps per preset if you'd like. ruclips.net/video/6UdV5zNokIg/видео.html
I dunno, man. Ola England made a killer clone of some Friedman amp that sounded identical to the real one back to back. I've heard other A/b Of clones next to the real ones and they sounded authentic compared to the new Kempler Pedal. I think it's either your setup or cables or something
I think ToneX is incredible. Perhaps you misunderstood the premise of the video-I was simply suggesting the reason other people don’t like the captures they’re trying, specially those who use the ToneX on analog pedalboards, is because they haven’t properly treated the ToneX as they would a real amp. That’s all. I’m a huge fan and user of ToneX and think the world of it! 🤙🏼🤙🏼
Can anyone help me figure out how to put the new TonexOne in interface mode so I'm not hearing the tone model on my physical pedal and the software tone model layered? please help lol
@@thetoneshepherd I think you're right, but it seems like too big of an oversight to only be able to listen to two simultaneous tone models when plugging in via USB-C
Select the 3rd (far right) slot in the software. Then turn it off with the Tonex footswitch = PC only. For the opposite, turn the amp and cab off on the software and then you only hear what's on the Tonex pedal
Let me say with confidence that if you are not currently, you NEED to run your wet effects AFTER the ToneX (or any modeler) and in to a line isolator. That's how it's done in a studio and that's what you hear on every classic album you can think of. Reverbs in particular are drastically altered by a distorted preamp, and altered again when filtered through a guitar cab. There's no rules; do what you want. But modern pedals are significantly more useful when they come after the gain stages (and after the speaker cab IMO).
I appreciate this, but this is incredibly subjective. There’s no such thing as “need“ when it comes to effect order and the vast majority of the people that I listen to put wet effects in front. I have a PBC6X with the ability to swap my wet pre or post. I’ve tried it. I prefer in front. I’m not telling you what you should do, I’m simply telling you how I prefer to run it.
@@thetoneshepherd my bad, the "you" was like "people in general" not like you in particular. Your production was so good I thought this was another giant channel--I figured I was just chatting with other commenters. Most players I meet/teach don't even know it's an option to run post effects. Reverb algorithms are just such finely tuned and detailed things. They lose a lot of fidelity when they're filtered through a preamp, speaker cab, and mic. Even cheap units can sound epic when they're allowed to breathe. You rock brother, it's great content.
Thanks Eric. It's true that we should all experiment with these things, it can lead to great creativity and at the end of the day, that's what I love to see.
Input Trim: Set it and forget it. It's a GLOBAL parameter. Do you really want to change it every time you change your TONEX capture? Do you really want to adjust the gain structure of your ENTIRE pedalboard every time you change a capture? I'm not really sure how ever get any clean tones with your input trim set to +8? Use the GAIN knob... it is set per preset. It functions the same as the Input Trim and allows your "input" into the capture and allows EVERYTHING else to remain untouched.
You are correct. Since making this video I’ve learned from IK that Input Trim and Gain essentially do the same thing-raise the level hitting the capture (tone model). So, yes, adjusting the Gain per preset is the way to go 🤙🏼
no gain and input trim go together. to normalize output between presets you really need to just do it by ear using the volume and then save or run it into your daw and set each preset so that their levels are all the same on your meters. Input/gain changes will affect your overdrive amount while volume/output just changes how loud the preset is.
Input trim is a relationship of your pickup signal strength of your guitar. Always set it to be just under clipping. This is indicated by the "Hi" tonex indicates when setting the trim. Stay under "HI" with the hardest you would hit the strings when playing. Dont set the trim per capture.
It's easier to just adjust the Gain per preset than to change the input trim. I would suggest setting the input trim to a good baseline that fits most used guitars and then fine tune the gain in the presets. This might mean different presets for different guitars if they differ enough. What many people also forget: The same guitar with the same pickup can have hugely different output if the distance between strings and pickups is different.
@@aptfx Trying to figure out how to pin this comment to the top because this is IT! After posting this video I went down a rabbit hole experimenting with Input Trim vs. Preset Gain and, yes, exactly what you're saying is true--you can and should adjust the Gain on each preset for this purpose. It totally works, no one should be afraid to touch it and adjust that to achieve the breakup and headroom you're looking for.
@@thetoneshepherd my tonex one pedal is so noisy i couldnt use it, software was limited, and they wanted more money for the full version , i sent it back after one day
The rant was perfection. Every guitarist needs that rant burned into his/her brain everyday just to realise how ridiculously spoiled they are, critical of everything, nothing's good enough, this digital box vs the other digital box, etc etc. However, RUclipsr influencers are guilty of the same thing. 😂 👍
the true fix for this is we boycote these amp sim makers by saying we are not investingany more capitalinto them until there is an industry standard for input gain and levels .this chaotic way the amp sims are in right now is just rediculous lay the problem at those feet that are truly responsible. ratjher than pushing it off onto the consumer waisting hours off their customers very very valuable life to do a very important .in fact the most important factor concerning amp sims is input and these companies profitting are geting away with selling an unfinished product .ive tested these things and im not stupid enough to support this cacophany of ignorance
Thanks mate, you have changed the way I treat my tonex pedal. I think your deserve more credits for this advice, cheers !!
Right on!
What an incredible class. Thanks for the contribution. Best guitar channel on YT.
Ahhh thanks!!
Truly one of the best and most helpful vids on taming the beast! Thank you!!
Awesome!! Glad it helped!
What a breath of fresh air! You've managed to, in this one video, perfectly explain why so many players are having crap sounding presets - and how to prevent this.
It's a hot topic currently - there's a lot of internet/youtube noise discussing these issues, in particular, focusing on setting the Gain knob correctly in your audio interface when using plugins e.g. BIAS, TONEX plugin, S-Gear, Neural DSP etc. 'Established protocol' used to be crank the audio interface gain all the way up till clipping then turn back a little for headroom. With plugins/digital systems this is (now we're told) wrong, and in fact, most require zero gain on that knob (INST level of course). The problem is...those damn plugin developers didn't tell anyone, that is, appart from the channel owners of all those fantastic sounding youtube demos, demos that persuaded us to buy the products!
Again, thanks for this important video. Subbed!
You got it! So glad it helped!
Dude this was super helpful, thank you! I still can't get over how good Tonex sounds with drives and effects running into it. To my ears it's leading the market in that regard
Thanks! And yeah, the tech is WILD how real it sounds!
Probably one of the better videos using the Tonex
Thanks brother!
Great video. Thank you.I'm about six decades into the guitar and always looking to move forward . I'm using the ToneX into an HX Stomp HL for both church and secular gigs. Pretty happy with the sound i'm getting but your video allowed me to tweak a couple of things that have made a huge difference.
Oh man I love to hear that! Glad it was helpful to you!
Definitely needed this video! Thanks Tone Sheppard!
No worries!
great explanation Tonex owes you....
Little tip, if u dont want to always have to adjust the global trim input. Set it to 0 leave it and for each captute increase the gain. This has the exact same effect :) and that way u can save each preset so not constantly changing global settings per capture.
Ok, sincere question--is increasing the gain on the capture the exact same as adjusting the global input trim? I know you just said it is...but looking for further evidence haha.
@@thetoneshepherd yeah mate iv seen it tested in a youtube video. Let me have a look for it!
@@thetoneshepherd 17 mins ruclips.net/video/6UdV5zNokIg/видео.htmlsi=LQnX7fibMe07_xLt
@@DeloreanDave Would love to see that! Thanks!
Could you set an expression pedal with the Tonex to control the Gain? This way it could be adjustable on the fly
I'm a tone chaser so this was a fun listen. I just got the TONEX ONE so this was good info.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Hi, thanks! It's a good point from your perspective; however, some music styles require the guitar to be "crystal clean" while also being heavy or full-bodied. So the OD and DS tones should come from pedals, as we always need to return to the "crystal clean".
Yep yep, I agree with you for sure. For some styles and instances, that is absolutely the way to go. And there are those OD pedals out there designed for that purpose that nail it! This video was primarily aimed at the genre I swim in, but for sure there are different approaches that work great.
This is golden, I always used the L2 compressor to go hotter into the ToneX but it never occured to me to just increase the input gain of the ToneX itself a bit.
For sure! Glad it was helpful 🤙🏼
I use a HSS strat for everything so I don't have the problem of various level issues, it gets all the tone I need
Thanks for the great videoS
I have this problem,
After 2-3 months with Tonex Pedal, I find the problem is with HiGain tones and Imput Trim
We know we need to adjust Trim in / Input Trim on the pedal to match the tone, the feeling, the scoop, and the beefy tone, etc etc to sound like the audio sample created by the author for example on ToneNet or Premium tones where you can hear the real tone.
for Hi-Gain tones I need ( and lots of people maybe go to +15 ) to add at least +10 to +12db in the pedal trim in to match the audio demo from the Tone author with your guitar (depends on your guitar pickups but from +10 to +12 and maybe more), It clips a lot ( this is another BIG issue) . SO, when you use a clean tone with Input Trim +12db or more that tone comes saturated with distortion, oviusly.
Other test, If you try to match the tone with the Tonex software audio demo " like "Wood" or "Galop" or any other guitar sample of the list" you only need around +4, but is lack of the feeling of the real tone created by the author that come with the audio sample.
So, in other words,
* We need an update on the pedal and software so we can add a dedicated Input Trim or Trim-In parameter for each tone / preset / profile. Also you can keep the global parameter.
OR
* we need 2 tonex pedals, one for Hi-Gain tones and another for clean and drive tones. thats CRAZY !!!
That's why people who use only clean and drive tones are very happy with Tonex!!!!!
A separate unit to handle the Gain like some, is not nice or not handy, for example a gain padal to boost Hi-Gain tones.
Ik Multimedia is doing something about this.
I'm wondering if possibly you've got the input set incorrectly in the software, making your hardware unit seem different. The software relies on the gain of your audio interface (assuming you're using something different than the ToneX pedal itself as an interface) and also the Input gain setting in the lower left of the window. Perhaps there's an issue there.
@@thetoneshepherd thanks for ansswer...
Tonex software is in 0, tonex pedal is in 8-10 or sometimes 12, what you do with the booster pedal, is what I do adjusting the input trim-in in the tonex pedal from 8 to 12 so hiGain tones sound greatand exactly to the tone creator sample or how is supposed to sound, or how i like it.
so, input trim at 12 sounds great with hi-gain tones, but you change to a clean tone, and is dirt, and distorted.
A boost pedal like you have solves the problem but ... If Im in a clean tone in Tonex, with the booster off, and I switch to a higher tone in Tonex I also have to turn on the boost, and viceversa, like a tap dancer LOL.
I think the input trim needs to be a parameter inside of each tone or preset so you can handle as you want, becasue also the trim-in depend on your guitar pickups.
That is a feature I want to see in the next pedal firmware upgrade.
Very helpful tips. The one about using a Compressor to even out the Inputs from very different Pickups might also work on my HX Stomp to even out the transitions between some big changes in Snapshots that sound jarring. Thanks
Totally! Let me know how that works for you on the Stomp!
As an owner of 3 Tonex pedals (inspired by your stereo set up and also the Tone Factor boy’s OD pedal captures), I appreciate this message. 🙏
Heck yeah James! I nearly went with 3 ToneXs as well. Honesty you can't go wrong there.
@@thetoneshepherd Yeah mate, I’m having fun that’s for sure!
Almost went 3 tonex too. Using 1 stereo and the 2nd one mono. I guess i am not the only person with crazy idea of 3tonex pedals 😂🤙🏼
I just got my TONEX this week about 3 days ago and I am loving it! Oh I have this running into my amps effects loop return and using a simple Mooer preamp Gold 012 pedal in line with a BOSS GE7 EQ and a Mooer Radar pedal. Believe it or not, its sounds AMAZING! Yes I am using all my regular pedals like delays and reverb HOF2, phaser, etc... I am loving this thing!
I believe it! Tonex is awesome!!
Hello
I recently purchased Tonex. I saw your video during various settings and bought 2 capture today.
It's so nice.
Please continue to make good screenshots.
Thank you.
Oh thanks a ton for your support!!
Last week I experienced the "headroom" compression thing on my tonex. I have made good captures of my personal 'boutique' Jeff Andrews' Amps - so I want to use them. I found the clean and eob captures really took to my pedals. You explanation is AWESOME and should be of great help to those who want to use tonex live on a pedalboard. Question: How do you use expression pedal in your rig? I can either use it to control the Tonex MOD.VOL or use a standard volume pedal going into my rig. What do you recommend?
Glad you found this helpful Ty! I don't use an expression pedal but I do have a regular volume pedal on my board that I use, but not to control the amp per-se, more for ambient reverb swells and as a mute for tuning.
@@thetoneshepherd In my ideal rig I would have a pedal controlling overall volume, and then another pedal for the wet mix. However I am constrained to size because we play on a tiny stage. Thank you so much brother
Thanks for sharing. Fully agree on the efforts needed to adjust to the tone model. Generally, I think we should aim at hitting the tone model with a guitar signal same as if we would hit the real amp, which in most cases means NOT to increase input trim (or input gain on the interface if you use the Tonex plugin). In the beginning I aimed at a typical input level of -12db into the DAW, and wondered why most amps were pushed over the top. Now I turn that gain knob on the interface all the way down (-24db) and most tone models sound amazing. Personally, I use different guitars with different pickups because they sound different, thus, I don't use Comp/EQ to match guitar tone, only to get the best out of each guitar and tone model in it's own right.
Marc, your theory is correct with the exception that the manner in which different people go about creating captures has variances that adjusting the trim can help with. And, to be fair, in a real world if you were auditioning multiple amps you would need to turn certain amps’ gain knobs up or down depending on the nature of that amp. However, one important point I forgot to make in this video that changes things a bit is that the function of the Gain (per preset) and the Input Trim is the exact same-they both simply adjust clean input into the capture. So, you can safely leave your input trim where you feel is a good middle ground for all your guitars and then adjust the Gain on each preset to tase.
So true about modern young players getting "lazy". Haha - i remember back in the day we had to figure out how to get a somewhat decent tone out of cheap, lame amps at our school. Because those were the only amps we had acces too! Now days it's, luckily, very very different.
I read something similar about the tonex software being a nightmare to set up and run and so forth - man that kid should have tried windows95 back in the day..
Suck it up guys - hard work still pays off;)
Thanks.I just bought Tonex Software and this helps a lot.
Glad it helped!
Man what an awesome video. Makes me desire to just get out from
Work and spend time with my ToneX.
Thanks brother! I know...work gets in the way sometimes! haha
All those "tweaks" certainly work great and would be useful in the studio but very awkward or impossible in a live setting if one were switching captures for different songs.
Yeah I hear that. But for me, I generally pick one capture per set and just do small adjustments per guitar change.
Any amp sim is going to require EQ and culling or adding gain. Plus in this case, drilling back the reverb and delay. Great stuff
Thanks! And yep, the EQ on the ToneX is quite powerful
Great video. Super helpful. The thing that still confuses me is the LED color when setting the input trim on the tonex one. If I set it to taste and still in the green with no effects, my overdrive pedals push it into the red. Am I losing signal to clipping when it goes to red?
Mine technically "clips" at the setting I have it at...but I don't hear any clipping at all. So I just live with it 🤷🏻♂️
Great video, thanks! Perfect for me at this particular time!
Thanks a ton!
Great video Devan. I'm curious why you avoid using the gain/drive sounds from your pedals, in favor of using them more as volume boosts into the amp. Do you just prefer the sound of amp drive? Doesn't that kinda negate the point of different styles of drive pedals?
I just feel like when you increase the level of Gain on a pedal it can sound unnatural at times. Not always. But I just prefer the sound of my amps boosted, that's all. Even with the drive pedals acting more like boosts, they definitely still have their "flavor" added, even if the Gain is lower than usual.
@@thetoneshepherd I guess that's true; on the pedal you're increasing the volume output of the "affected" sound, so it does impart its sound before boosting, that makes sense.
Would it make sense to set Global input trim to say 0db ,leave it alone and do not touch it again then set up presets for each guitar adding gain at the tonex amp only, if needed, then saving that to each preset? Maybe, for example having a strat single coil preset block and a les paul humbucker preset block sorta thing?
Yes, just watched a super helpful video by Jason Sadies who suggests that. Watch from 17:00 on ruclips.net/video/6UdV5zNokIg/видео.html
Yep that video addresses this very well.
Such a good video... Thanks!
Great video! 🤜🏻🤛🏻
I have been going back and forth from Dual ToneX and my UAFX Dream constantly lately. I upped my Input Trim and it definitely helped with some captures that seemed a little lifeless to me.
I'm still trying to get my wet effects to sound as good as they do going into my Dream. I even tried some Dream captures but haven't been able to get it quite the same.
I've been very curious to try some DI captures going into a UAFX Ox Stomp. 🤔
This is the blessing and curse with ToneX, the right capture is so important and they're ALL different. Unlike a "modeler" where you have much more control over the individual parameters. But keep searching! That's part of the frustrating fun of it all haha
On point on the amp and pedal tandem. Thank you. Imma gonna go re-do my foot set up and love my old amp again hehe. Awesome video. Cheers from the Philippines 🤝
Thanks bro! Cheers!
Hahaha you’re so right saying people nowadays expect their capture to be right from the get go or they will ditch it. It’s like Tinder dating 😁
Hahaha
this video is tops. be open to maybe adjusting some stuff on "your end" !
🫣 Haha
I’ve purchased your AC30 capture and it sounds great! However the download says V1 and I notice in your video here it says API3 V3. Is there an updated capture and how do I get ut if so? Great video btw!
Thanks for your support! But no, the “V3” in this video is when I was still in the test phase. I renamed the more recent release as V1 to keep things consistent with the Prosonic naming convention. You do have the most current version. But I hope to add more captures soon (which you’ll get for free) so stay on the lookout for those on Instagram.
@@thetoneshepherd thanks for the clarification! And the good work you’re putting out.
Thank you for the helpful tips. Quick question, what is your preferred way to use the tonex for sound in the room? Do you like tonex-> power amp -> real cab? Or frfr instead? So far, I’ve tried with headphones and that sounds great but when I play through my studio monitors, it’s just looses the feel and and it gets boomy. Thanks!
I do ToneX > Pinstripe DISO+ > Interface > Studio Monitors (or FOH).
"This video is sponsored by...... My own personal opinion" I swear I laughed so hard, Thanks for the video I was just getting ready to message you, for tips as I am about to start using my tone x
Baahaaahaa...had to throw it in there.
One trick I’ve found useful, since so many of the captures (even the premium ones from IK Multimedia) have such massive volume differences with identical trim settings, which is incredibly annoying btw, is to use the compressor in Tonex to adjust the volume per preset. I’ve set up presets for the same amp (usually the Dumble) but for each guitar I use. My Les Paul with P-90s will overdrive every amp and also makes the captures loud. My Strat has Ron Ellis pickups which are low output and some captures are just anemic in the volume department. My G&L telecaster is right in the middle. So three different presets just to get the volume to be consistent between guitars so I don’t have to fiddle too much with the pedal itself.
Yeah, there are a lot of cool tricks like that if you dig in deep enough
Excelente vídeo. Dicas valiosas. Deus te abençoe!
Much appreciated
Turning the input trim way down does give more headroom. I don’t change the global setting though, I adjust the input trim to sound good with all my guitars and then adjust the gain and save the preset where it sounds the way I want it.
Yep. This is the way. I've been doing this more lately. Jason Sadites knows his stuff as I'm sure you've found. Turning the trim down to 0 or -3 and turning the Gain up to 8 or 10 yields the same tone with increased headroom: ruclips.net/video/5S8KpTpiN5I/видео.htmlsi=0HQEppfe2k_H-Sr6
I bought one from you and sounds amazing. God bless you
Thanks for your support bro!
How do you handle sound quality degradation of the Tonex when running it thru the loop of other pedals/multi fx? its a really noticeable drop of dynamic/bite/presence and cant seem to find a solution. Thanks for the video too, it was helpful!
I don’t run it in any loop of other fx. I run two ToneX pedals in stereo at the end of an analog board. No quality loss that I’ve heard 🤙🏼
I have had that issue with my HX Stomp, what are you running it in the loop of? My GT1000 Core is significantly better (clearer, more depth, 3d?) but with both I have to make sure that the input/output level of the loops is set right. Boss has 0-200 level for in and out and the Stomp has instrument/line level.
Thanks for sharing! I have a question…those tones (amps) created or captured by others which may be tagged with a price or not, might sound dramatically different not using the cab sim that comes with it and instead using a power amp and a real cab?
All the ToneX captures I shared in this video are captures that are intended to have the amp/cab/mic configuration baked in. Of course ToneX allows you to remove the cab and use your own IR or other cab model (or a power amp) but, again, all these captures are intended to be used how I used them in the video. Yes, they would sound much different if you used a different cab, but the tones the original creators had in mind have the cab they intended already there...if that makes sense.
First time to the channel, very good content! I have a variety of guitars to choose from to play on Sunday but the Duesy is on constant rotation. Mine is a blue sparkle, the trem is best in class and the Grand Vintage HB is a great pick up. I'm dipping a toe into the modeling world, after playing through an amp mic'd in an isocab offstage in the rack room. I was not a fan of early Line 6 stuff but I know the Helix is a different animal. The Tonex looks interesting.
Thanks my friend. I believe if you’re used to a cab miced up in isolation you’ll love ToneX. You could even just capture your own setup and if done right won’t be able to tell the difference in tone at all. It’s really good!
I had my trim +5 to as high as +12 with my Tele. I’ve lowered it down to +2 for the PRS CE that I recently got. I do find that most worship guitarist nowadays have not really have an opportunity to play an actual amp for a while and auditioning different drives with the amp. Not that it’s a bad thing but just an observation that I notice when I see people talk about these digital modelling
Exactly, we have to go back to the basics and remember this is a very realistic amp and treat it as such.
Great video. My main borad is the Fractal FM9. I just bought the ToneX to test it out. It seems to be a challange to connect (activate) it to the computer. The activation light stays on red. I have read that more people have this issue. I will have to contact Ik Multimedia about this. Do you use the internal presets too? Which one would you recommend (I play in a worship band)?
Thanks! Sorry to hear you’re having issues with your pedal. I should get back to you pretty quick if you reach out to them. Now, I’m a little biased, but I use my own personal captures on my rig for worship. A good starting point would be the AC30 or the Prosonic! www.thetoneshepherd.com/store
Great video Brother! Do you have the stereo Tonex (x2) first thing after compressor, or at the end of the signal chain? I'm trying different ways to see how it affects playability and noise, and this video is perfect timing! New Subscriber!
Thanks for the sub!! My exact pedal chain is referenced in the description of the video if you want a more detailed answer, but I run Guitar > Comp > Drives > Modulation > Delay > Reverb > ToneX's.
Good video Thanks!
Great video, very informative, and a true guide to dialing in your tone with a method. Well done!
🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻
It was a really good video
Thanks to you, I think I found my character. I hope only good things will happen to you.
Thanks so much my friend 🙏🏼
Love the Duesenberg!!
Me too!! She's a keeper.
Such a great video! Thanks man!
Thanks!
Do you think using any input trim/gain combination would be good enough to make all the out-of-the-box models in the tonex sound primarily good with guitar straight in?
Not necessarily. Gain staging is super important, but how the tone model was captured is the most important. The kind of amplifier, the speaker, the mic position, etc. All of those things are of first importance. Then, once you have captured a really good sound, then gain staging is next. But proper gain staging is not going to make up for an amp that wasn’t captured to the best of its ability, or was captured at settings that aren’t ideal for your genre.
@@thetoneshepherd Right, so back to these models that come with the tonex pedal, most of them sound like tin with any of my guitars. Clean tone presets are okayish, but anything drive and overdrive sounds like tin = (
@@manuelaguilar8060 that’s where the beauty of aftermarket stuff comes. I have an AC30 for sale on my website, there are tons of great captures from alter amp works, worship tutorials, tone factor, the studio rats, etc. But I agree, the stock ones aren’t that great, at least to me, the few that I’ve tried
Great Video I'm just curious do you adjust the compression gain and the compression level on the Tonex pedal itself? I found the captures I'm using are really low output if I don't up the Compression Gain and compression level on the Tonex . Any advice would be greatly appreciated. God Bless Dave
Thanks Dave. So, funny you ask this, I just tried tweaking my main amp (my AC30) and lowered the gain and added the compressor to taste for the purpose of having a very very "clean" amp tone that wasn't wimpy and this totally did the trick! Previously I hadn't ever used compression on the ToneX but I may start trying it a bit. Seems to work really well. However, to answer your specific question about volume compensation, if I need a capture to simply be louder, I'll use the Model Volume instead of the compressor gain. I don't think I'd want the compressor adding the gain...but who knows!? Now, as far as adjusting the Gain as an alternative to adjusting the Input Trim, yes, absolutely. I learned from this video (watch at 17min) how those two controls sound identical. ruclips.net/video/6UdV5zNokIg/видео.html
Thank you so much for your help. Appreciate it. I will experiment a bit with your ideas and tone path. God bless. 🙏
Excellent points. Well thought out.
Thanks!
Wonderful thoughts
Not a ToneX user, so this might be a silly question, but does input trim not change from preset to preset? Is it, for instance, like a global setting on the HX Stomp or Helix? Really loved this video btw!!
Not a silly question! On the ToneX, Input Trim is a global setting. You can adjust the “Gain” on each amp but the verdict’s still out if that has the exact same effect as adjusting the Input Trim.
Great info! How are you liking the Squish As? In comparison to the Origin Effects?
I bought a bunch of compressors to do some AB testing and also make an upcoming video...but I'm really digging the Squish As. And the visual feedback is so valuable to me.
@@thetoneshepherd I have the Cali 76 now. It just seems to my ear that it adds some high end which can be an issue with a bright guitar. I thought the Squish As sounded good with your rig.
I'm learning that I really do love a comp that has a tone knob on it. It's allllmost giving me the ability to ditch my always-on EQ...almost. But as far as the Cali76, after trying the Neutron Compressor (you'll see in my vid soon), the Squish As, and the Cali side by side, the shine wore off on the Cali a bit. It's still a killer comp, but these others hold up.
I think one advantage of the Cali 76 is that it has a 1 meg input where the Squish As has 500K. I guess the proof will be in the upcoming video. I look forward to seeing it.
Ooo interesting
Very informative video. Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Amazing Video-very helpful
Glad it was helpful!
Super helpful! Applies to nontonex as well
Yep, absolutely, just a general rule for all things amps!
Great video man!! Is the chase tone secret preamp off the board?
It’s still on there…but not being used at the moment. It still rocks, but I switched over to using the Revenant as my always-on that allows me to EQ more precisely than the Secret Pre. However… i’ve been playing with different compression pedals and the compression pedals that have tone knobs on them might be good enough for me to remove the revenant and keep the secret pre. Lots of things I’m sorting through at the moment. Haha
😂 gotcha! I’m sure you’ve heard about the Jackson audio bloom. It really helps with balancing out my different guitars. It has a 3 band eq that’s very useful, a boost, a second compressor plus everything is midi controlable and it sounds great. If you haven’t tried it out definitely recommend :)
@@Davidvs91 Yep, I had the Bloom for a long time before I ended up with the Cali76. To me the Cali was a much much better comp and I also had a Prism at the same time which gave me the EQ stuff I needed at the time. Now I’m back to trying new things haha. Always searching!
Great info ℹ️ thx!
You bet!
Great video man - thought provoking
Glad you liked it 🙌🏼
Great review. Tonex is great!
It really is!
Curious on where the Microcosm is placed in the chain! Have one myself and currently placing it at the end of the chain, would like to try placing it after mods before delay/reverb
I’ve got mine right before mod/delay/verb. Mostly due to necessity. I’ll have to play with it more once I rewire my whole board. But it’ll definitely come before my reverb no matter what. I have a few presets that sound really good with reverb after.
I just got the ToneX One and was not impressed at all with the sound until i configured the global input to about -2.
Really weird that it is so hot by default. Makes no sense.
Yeah I've heard it ships with 15db by default? Can't confirm this 100% but regardless, Input Trim is the key to making sure the captures sound as intended!
I don't get the impression that the stock Tonex amps suck... However with it really really shines... Is with the third party amp captures. Find some good ones and do a blind test. It's ridiculously good. And it handles changes in volumes and dynamics like a real amp
My title was a little click bait 🙃 I, too, think that most captures are great. In fact that’s what I’m trying to explain in this video. Depending on how you approach them, most captures can be usable. But I’d still agree that third-party captures are where it’s at.
@@thetoneshepherd ahhh... My bad. Let me actually watch the video now! 😎🙃
@@thetoneshepherd👍😎
💯💯🙌🏼🙌🏼
Here is The Tip. Take a clean ToneX model and try to drive the hell out of it. You find that some of the clean models are such that they are delicious when pushed hard. Even more so than drive ones. Some clip in digital manner but the system has the ability in it to not to do so. I don't still know if it is an accident or is the particular clean model designed to be boostable. One such boostable model in ToneX Max is Clean Grit to test what I mean. Boost the hell out of it like 40db with Blue Cat free gain plugin and it still works. It might be totally different from original meaning but I'm not sure. I made one ultra clean capture(direct out to direct in) and it clipped in very harsh digital manner like expected still being clean at lower levels.
It’s certainly fun to explore and “break the rules”!
super cool - thanks for that video
Very welcome!
About to give up... Just tried more than 100 captures and all sounded muffled compared to a Palladium pedal, my mate let me borrow his after he pointed out I was sounding boxed/muffled and I did not believe him until I compared both... night day difference.
Love it when you find a peace of gear that perfectly suits your needs!
Men… Great!! Great!! Great video. Thank you!🤙🏼
Thanks!
Dope video. I totally agree! I’m sorta old (black don’t crack haha) so I remember many years ago when a fantastic amplifier was a 2k purchase and you had to set it in another room so you couldn’t make tweaks to it on the fly. The idea of switching captures mid set, or using multiple settings of the same capture would be unheard of for most musicians until the advent of modeling/capturing/profiling. And even then, most of us couldn’t afford a Matchless DC30 or even have the privilege to try one and now we can have reasonably accurate pictures of their tones.
The kids these days are spoiled!
Hahaha for sure bro!! Those were the days!!
How do they sound threw a line aray pa. I use a multy effect board threw. And sounds terrible. But sounds great threw the valve amp. Doze any one no
They sound great. I play through a line array every week. 🤘🏻
Question: Why Tonex over the UA Dream and Ruby?
I just like the ability to capture my own amps. But the Dream/Ruby are different things-modelers meant to recreate all the parameters of a specific amp. The tonex is a “capture box” that gives you the exact tone of a mic’d amp at particular settings.
@@thetoneshepherd I have tried both. I think I’m just simply satisfied with the tone the Dream and the Ruby give me. I was just curious if you ever used that setup.
Yes, I have used pretty much all of the popular options and ToneX reigns supreme for me. But the Ruby/Dream were fun too. Truth is, you can get amazing tone with any of those options
Soo tried the Tonex One and dialed it in and now I jumped ship on the UA stuff… You were right I was wrong. You’re the best and I am the worst lol thanks for helping me give it a second look.
Glad you got it dialed in to your liking!
Good stuff!
Thanks!
You clean sound with and with out the boost pedal is substantially louder than your drive volume and your drive sound is already super saturated in over drive that your just adding mush with the boost pedal.
Well, I enjoy it!
All sounds great in my house with 8db input trim in my tonex, but in church with -1db input my signal clips when using an overdrive, any help please? thanks
Perhaps you're not clipping the ToneX pedal but rather the sound board input? Check with your sound tech and see if your signal is going into the red when you kick on your overdrive. I find, when using the ToneX and a Line Isolator like the Pinstripes DISO or the Walrus Canvas, my signal being sent to the board is crazy hot. They have my gain at 0 and still have the fader down a good bit. But that's not a bad thing so long as it's not clipping at the console.
@@thetoneshepherd thank you for the advice! Great video and info!
Attentionality... I like it. I don't think it's a word, but it should be! lol
@@nevessl576 haha did I say that somewhere?
@@thetoneshepherd Haha! At the end! :)
@@thetoneshepherd Went back and you actually said intentionality. My bad! I still like attentionality, though. Haha!
You gotta really try to make a ToneX sound bad. Great vid, thanks!
It's true...I was kinda lying when I said "some of those sounded like trash" hahaha
Has this changed since IK recently changed the input gain staging?
Even with the update a few months back, I still find for my guitars that increasing the Global trim to +8.5db is the level the captures I use respond to best.
Hi, great advice.
Hey, thanks!
Ok but show us how you're using the Microcosm. And dial in those 6 (or your favorite 6-10 captures) and do a part 2 of Six Captures side by side cause that was helpful to hear them in comparison.
Great suggestion Gary! Also, Microcosm stuff is coming...as soon as I feel really confident in the presets I'm making.
The problem is many of the 3rd party vendors don’t tell you where to set the input trim. I suspect many of them aren’t even aware of the input trim issue on the pedal, as they test their captures using the software. There can be such a big swing in input trim settings from each user/vendor that switching between these is not workable. Kemper, Quad Cortex and more recently Tonocracy address this problem during the capture process. So the profiles/captures on those devices react like an amp would. So you know the captures on those devices are responding as per the settings and response of the amp captured.
IK multimedia don’t even seem to acknowledge that this is a problem, so I imagine they won’t provide a solution for it anytime soon.
they really can’t tell you what the input trim should be because it’s based on your guitar output and any pedals that is in front of it … and what sound you want to get.
It's true. It really does depend on the guitar. And @davidkennedy2541 I found this great video by Jason Sadies who demonstrates how adjusting the Gain on a tone model is basically the same thing as adjusting input trim. Start the video at 17min. It's great. This way, you can confidently set different amps per preset if you'd like. ruclips.net/video/6UdV5zNokIg/видео.html
I dunno, man. Ola England made a killer clone of some Friedman amp that sounded identical to the real one back to back. I've heard other A/b Of clones next to the real ones and they sounded authentic compared to the new Kempler Pedal. I think it's either your setup or cables or something
I think ToneX is incredible. Perhaps you misunderstood the premise of the video-I was simply suggesting the reason other people don’t like the captures they’re trying, specially those who use the ToneX on analog pedalboards, is because they haven’t properly treated the ToneX as they would a real amp. That’s all. I’m a huge fan and user of ToneX and think the world of it! 🤙🏼🤙🏼
Sell some pedals so you can pay the heat bill...
I'm considering it.
Trashed my instruction manual after that. Great perspective! Thanks TTS!
Woot woot! So glad my man!
All I know is that TS AC30 sounded good no matter what 🤷♂️
You’re the best Nick!
You deserve way more subscribers than this!
Ahhhh thanks bro. I'm in no rush. I'm grateful that this is helpful, that's all.
Can anyone help me figure out how to put the new TonexOne in interface mode so I'm not hearing the tone model on my physical pedal and the software tone model layered? please help lol
Interesting…I don’t think the TONEX ONE has an Interface mode does it? I don’t remember seeing that in the manual but I could be wrong.
@@thetoneshepherd I think you're right,
but it seems like too big of an oversight to only be able to listen to two simultaneous tone models when plugging in via USB-C
So you’re trying to use the TONEX ONE as an interface to Tonex software then, yes? I see the issue.
Select the 3rd (far right) slot in the software. Then turn it off with the Tonex footswitch = PC only. For the opposite, turn the amp and cab off on the software and then you only hear what's on the Tonex pedal
Let me say with confidence that if you are not currently, you NEED to run your wet effects AFTER the ToneX (or any modeler) and in to a line isolator. That's how it's done in a studio and that's what you hear on every classic album you can think of. Reverbs in particular are drastically altered by a distorted preamp, and altered again when filtered through a guitar cab.
There's no rules; do what you want. But modern pedals are significantly more useful when they come after the gain stages (and after the speaker cab IMO).
I appreciate this, but this is incredibly subjective. There’s no such thing as “need“ when it comes to effect order and the vast majority of the people that I listen to put wet effects in front.
I have a PBC6X with the ability to swap my wet pre or post. I’ve tried it. I prefer in front. I’m not telling you what you should do, I’m simply telling you how I prefer to run it.
@@thetoneshepherd my bad, the "you" was like "people in general" not like you in particular. Your production was so good I thought this was another giant channel--I figured I was just chatting with other commenters.
Most players I meet/teach don't even know it's an option to run post effects. Reverb algorithms are just such finely tuned and detailed things. They lose a lot of fidelity when they're filtered through a preamp, speaker cab, and mic. Even cheap units can sound epic when they're allowed to breathe.
You rock brother, it's great content.
Thanks Eric. It's true that we should all experiment with these things, it can lead to great creativity and at the end of the day, that's what I love to see.
Input Trim: Set it and forget it. It's a GLOBAL parameter. Do you really want to change it every time you change your TONEX capture? Do you really want to adjust the gain structure of your ENTIRE pedalboard every time you change a capture? I'm not really sure how ever get any clean tones with your input trim set to +8?
Use the GAIN knob... it is set per preset. It functions the same as the Input Trim and allows your "input" into the capture and allows EVERYTHING else to remain untouched.
You are correct. Since making this video I’ve learned from IK that Input Trim and Gain essentially do the same thing-raise the level hitting the capture (tone model). So, yes, adjusting the Gain per preset is the way to go 🤙🏼
@@thetoneshepherd you really should consider taking this video down.
That would be great. Sure thing.
So use gain to normalize presets and leave volume at noon?
no gain and input trim go together. to normalize output between presets you really need to just do it by ear using the volume and then save or run it into your daw and set each preset so that their levels are all the same on your meters. Input/gain changes will affect your overdrive amount while volume/output just changes how loud the preset is.
"Little bit of reverb" *empty cathedral noise intensifies
I like it wet. 🤙🏼
Input trim is a relationship of your pickup signal strength of your guitar. Always set it to be just under clipping. This is indicated by the "Hi" tonex indicates when setting the trim. Stay under "HI" with the hardest you would hit the strings when playing. Dont set the trim per capture.
Good advice! Thanks!
It's easier to just adjust the Gain per preset than to change the input trim. I would suggest setting the input trim to a good baseline that fits most used guitars and then fine tune the gain in the presets. This might mean different presets for different guitars if they differ enough. What many people also forget: The same guitar with the same pickup can have hugely different output if the distance between strings and pickups is different.
True
@@aptfx Trying to figure out how to pin this comment to the top because this is IT! After posting this video I went down a rabbit hole experimenting with Input Trim vs. Preset Gain and, yes, exactly what you're saying is true--you can and should adjust the Gain on each preset for this purpose. It totally works, no one should be afraid to touch it and adjust that to achieve the breakup and headroom you're looking for.
i hate the sound of digital, my tone-x, my fractal, i just cant relate to it my dr z tube amp is so good with some analog pedals
I understand this. However, have you compared the sound of your amp miced up in isolation compared to a ToneX capture that was done in that same spot?
@@thetoneshepherd my tonex one pedal is so noisy i couldnt use it, software was limited, and they wanted more money for the full version , i sent it back after one day
Turn on the heat man.
Haha. Copy that.
The rant was perfection.
Every guitarist needs that rant burned into his/her brain everyday just to realise how ridiculously spoiled they are, critical of everything, nothing's good enough, this digital box vs the other digital box, etc etc.
However, RUclipsr influencers are guilty of the same thing. 😂 👍
Haha thanks.
the true fix for this is we boycote these amp sim makers by saying we are not investingany more capitalinto them until there is an industry standard for input gain and levels .this chaotic way the amp sims are in right now is just rediculous lay the problem at those feet that are truly responsible. ratjher than pushing it off onto the consumer waisting hours off their customers very very valuable life to do a very important .in fact the most important factor concerning amp sims is input and these companies profitting are geting away with selling an unfinished product .ive tested these things and im not stupid enough to support this cacophany of ignorance
I hear ya. But I'm still grateful IK is making the ToneX! It's working great for me!
Hello 👋
Hello 👋