Yo, I've legit been playing OSU!Mania for a couple of months but the moment I changed the offset to what was suggested I immediately started scoring and hitting better. This is why offset is important guys. This video has legit opened my eyes.
even as someone who feels like they're experienced *enough* with rhythm games, having this sort of categorization and explanation in one place is v useful, thx
Finally someone mentions where a song starts immediately and the notes teleport into existence. This has been bugging me for years in standard. I really hope this is fixed in lazer
God I feel like there's too much to talk about after watching this, but anyway huge thanks for all the effort in making a convoluted topic so easy to understand! 1. Tokaku is absolutely right about the categories of offsets. You always end up messing around with one among the note visuals, starting time of audios, starting time of charts or the judgement time windows. You can always tell by setting an extreme value to it and see what happens. 2. Even though you'd probably see only two of them in a given game, every one is quite important. For a game like Arcaea with very limited space for chart reading it feels cursed to play with a 300ms of input latency and chart offset as it actually takes up your reaction time (A note is visible from 0ms to 500ms. With its corresponding music beat at 500ms, you are supposed to hit it at 500ms. But your input reaches the game at 800ms so you change chart offset to make the note supposed to be hit at 800ms. However as you moved the chart the note will be visible from 300ms to 800ms and only 200ms left for you to react is really dumb.) and as a result your ability to play at higher scrolling speeds. And almost every mobile rhythm game suffers in this very same manner. To all future devs, adding note offset really helps with it (not only monitor lags)! 3. The bad thing about games with key sounds (osu!, and especially key-sound-based games like iidx and bms) is that its impossible to attempt to play a key sound earlier than the time you hit, thus there is no way to compensate for audio latency if you play with key sounds on. What's worse, even if the game implements any other offset options, it sucks when you change them as the key sounds will always go offbeat. The fact is, rustbell (the guy you saw posting in osu forum in the vid), formerly #1 in China, had been really frustrated about that problem in osu and he quit as a result. Recently EmertXE has written a blog post (www.bilibili.com/read/cv15801974) (note that it's in Chinese) on how to eradicate audio latency and hope it might be helpful to top tier osu players and pc rhythm gamers alike. 4. Another important factor in determining offset for your own gameplay is the way you read charts. In Japanese terms there are two ways of reading, 目押し and 音押し. I'll refer to them as hit-on-sight and hit-on-beat (I also coined them myself lol) later on. Hit-on-sight players focus on when the note reaches the judgement line, and figure out when to hit based on the distances between note and line, or between note and previous note. Among them some skilled players have their line of sight fixed on the judgement line and some space over it (opposed to 1:10) to really get a good sense of when exactly the note crosses the judgement line. Many players approach rhythm games in this way. Hit-on-beat players on the other hand try to infer when to hit by aligning notes they see to the beats of the music. Some, including me, even covers the lower part of the lane (like what HD does in o!m but it doesn't lift automatically. Why the hell would a cover lift itself peppy???) to hold their line of sight at a constant height as well as to completely remove the influence of hit-on-sight mindset. As I've discovered among my rhythm game club members, most players are hit-on-sight players, while only a few others, including me, are hit-on-beat players, and you can figure it out for yourself. Hit-on-beat players tend to share the same offset values in a given game (e.g. -40ms in o!m or +0.4 +0.4 on maimai post-Deluxe cabinets). However, hit-on-sight players' offset value vary wildly between one another, and even the same guy may have really different (from a hit-on-beat perspective) values across many games. I think it is because they kinda neglect music beats when they focus excessively on visual timings. 5. And some fun stories to share. Though this one is going a bit off topic, I do think hit-on-beat is the better way to approach rhythm games, especially if you are trying to find consistency in your play. But there are certain games designed to ruin hit-on-beat players' experience. Cytus has got zure (offbeat notes) and scan line tricks (like in L) all over the place. Not to mention SV in Cytus II makes things even worse. And dense 4K charts along with "delay"-style BMS charts make me doubt in what rhythm am I supposed to hit the keys. I wonder if it is just that I'm trash or they are real bad designs. Also, bad offset settings not only affect your gameplay score, it actually f***s up your beat perception (in addition to what Tokaku mentioned at 5:53). Two of my friends played maimai on pre-Deluxe cabinets, which is infamously known to have really bad offset issues - you need to set it to the max positive value to just even get close. They played for like 2 years with offset 0 and they are now playing rhythm games in a way that music is purely irrelevant. They constantly hit notes before anyone can hear the beats, with a solid offset difference of around 100ms earlier compared with me. Post-Deluxe cabinets fixed the issue, but in Chinese versions the translated descriptions of offsets were by some accident swapped (even now it hasn't been swapped back xd). One offset says change me if you are a hit-on-sight player, and is actually chart offset. The other says the opposite, and is actually judgement offset. This continues to cause confusions till today, since you are supposed to change them altogether to in effect change the audio offset, and I'm planning on making a video to make this clear. And again thanks for making such a great video!
thanks for this comment! :D actually, i never noticed that pre-maimai dx cabs had such bad offset D: maybe it was cause i was new to rhythm games when i mained it, (it was the first arcade rhythm game i mained) but looking back no wonder i had such bad accuracy lol also, regarding the hit-on-sight vs hit-on-beat preference, i'm actually a hit-on-beat player and i thought that was what was more common! i play sdvx on usc and looking at the lower half of the chart lanes really messes up my reading, so i used Hidden to cover that space up. normally, when i had tried this before (stepmania, lr2) it would mess up my timing, even though i was still reading the top half of the chart lanes. but when i used it in usc, my timing wasn't affected at all! perhaps i switched from hit-on-sight to hit-on-beat over time, or that i just got better at timing.
As a video game developer, offset is really hard to manage too. Not only do you have to consider all types of offset, you also have to decide what to sync all these offsets to, which might mean adding or subtracting a handful of numbers across dozens of elements, including menus, save files, and of course, in the gameplay itself.
I have been thinking for a couple of months that I had to hit circle notes "above the line" and have been changing my vision to help with this. Now I trained myself to hit "above the line" and hit constantly early
pretty easy to verify chart offset in osu because you can change the offset in a map when the audio has already started and since the audio doesnt stutter when you change it the only possible explanation would be chart offset :)
it'll be on the line in lazer??? I wonder how skinning support for mania will be if hit positions are still drawn at the bottom of notes. I look forward to it!
I often wondered if the context of playing a rhythm game is going to affect the reaction timing of the player. For example, in instrument simulators like taiko, beatmania, Gitadora, etc, players are supposed to be the performer/musician of the soundtrack, therefore the reaction to the notes has to be sooner in order to match the background. On the other hand, games with less emphasis on audio creation (often no keysound) like DDR, Osu!, ADOFAI, and beat saber, the player follow the song more instinctively, therefore the timing is often set on the beat rather than before the beat.
For someone who has been playing DDR for 20 years and other rhythm games, I’ve found this very helpful! I’ve not seen anyone else who has been able to explain it in simple terms and examples. Thank you!
I broke through a plateau in iidx when I adjusted the offset for my ears rather than my eyes. With the key sounds making it easy to lose track of the beat, training my eyes to judge a little later for the sake of keeping the clicks in line with audio helped my stamina. All the fine tuning goes out the window when I get to the arcade since I’m a bit tall for the lightning model and I’m stuck playing in an awkward horse stance. I’m surprised they didn’t add height options when they redesigned the iidx cabs.
You are correct in that osu! uses what you call "chart offset", where everything (beatmap, hitsounds, storyboard, video, judgements) except for the audio track is shifted. To test this, you can play a map with AP and observe that the audio track doesn't skip or distort while changing the local offset in-game. With a positive local offset, everything except the audio track shifts forwards. Universal offset is exactly the same but in the other direction (and in lazer you can change UO while in-game too).
2:19 I always wondered why my keyboard never syncs in with the music in osu! mania....... finally changed to -150 offset and finally it is in sync. never been so happy xD
Title: on the line or above the line as a curiosity Content: a comprehensive overview of different types of offsets and explanations for each that not even rhythm game developers necessarily understand This video is now my definitive resource for offset knowledge, thank you so much for making it
this video couldn't have gotten recommended to me at a better time. Literally just started playing Quaver a few HOURS ago and was freaking out because I didn't really know when to hit.
Tokaku, thank you again for another quality video! Glad I’m not the only one slightly curious about this but I’ve never put an effort into researching 🤣 (and that Wrapping up (not) part cracks me up beyond belief!!! Preach girl!!! Say it louder!!!)
I remember back when there was home versions of IIDX (at least from 3rd style to 11th Style RED) that it was considered 'above the line' by the community. Granted, I don't remember what forums thought that was the case. And this was back before the HD revolution, so CRT players were playing 'above the line'. But yeah, it was pretty obvious where the judgment points were on the notes of pop'n (well except for the White Pop-Kuns) at the very least (also granted, it helped that there's no 'beat waves' unlike what IIDX has (that glow that pulses in time with the music)). So, this video was an eyeopener for a 'former' IIDX player
oook this video just explained why my key presses feel late of my samsung tv w/ 120hz auto motion plus i dont wanna turn motion interpolation off_so I'll adjust the judgement line in djmax if that option exists 'cause i swear hitting perfect 100% on the line_i have to press the key late to do it_so gotta adjust something imma just binge watch this entire channel_then go back into the game_'cause i love the videos & im in love w/ you
i've tested it a bit, and i'm pretty sure that osu's universal offset in settings uses chart offset, while local offset changes audio offset. this is why changing universal offset to -50ms will have the same effect as setting local offset to 50ms, one moves chart back and other audio forwards very helpful video for understanding this system, thanks!
hmm I could've sworn the local offset uses chart offset as well... I remember setting my offset when I played AR11 to -25ms on those maps and I'd see approach circles go backwards... (EDIT: nvm just tested, local offset uses chart offset as well, notes are still teleporting forwards or backwards depending on your offset)
Getting a proper offset is the bane of my existence as a newer rhythm gamer. I'm always second-guessing if I picked the "correct" offset when everything between -8 and -43 feels just as right and wrong to play on-beat to
As a new rhythm gamer, I simply assume I'm playing wrong. Sometimes I hit late and sometimes I hit early. There doesn't seem to be reason other than I'm bad at the game. I only play osu though, on a decent pc
@@Kirito_2016 are you trying to sync the sound of your key-taps or the hitsound to the beat of the music? I'm 99% sure Osu's offset wizard is meant for syncing hitsounds. I get around -9ms offset using peppy's offset beatmap, but a massive -73ms offset if I'm syncing my key-taps for mania.
Some games are just all over the place. Colorful Stage has zero delay for me at all. Meanwhile Arcaea had massive delays and i just could not find the right offset so i deleted the game.
Yo !!! thanks for this great vid... after making the adjusments to the skin , everything goes so nice. Also i didnt know about the offset lag for the music on windows.. i changed my global compensation to -55 and i can hit the notes exactly where the beat sounds. TYSM
OK so maimai calls its offset "type A" and "type B" with an explanation is a good thing. And from this video I understand that's chart offset and judgement offset. Thank you for making this video!
I downloaded Quaver recently and was like “ok wait am I hitting above or on the line??” so, thanks for this LOL I’m so used to hitting on the line mannn T_T
Hello, osu!mania player who has skinned mania multiple times before, The hit position depends on the skin, like in the default skin, it's above, but it is possible to set it to on the line if you strech the judgement line.
what's even better is that there are rhythm games that uses what i will call "the calibration screen" like ADOFAI and RD. And I love the feature since i used to have a not so powerful PC
I hit above the line. the reason why I use this in iidx is simple: for many songs, 1.5 HiSPEED is enough, thus making the timing window for the most songs just above the judgement
0:33 ok I legit right here_i adore you btw_I just got back into rhythm games_used to play Stepmania DDR mods now just found Taiko festival on Switch_& DJMAX Respect V on Steam I hit above the line_if I wait to hit on the line_it feels late & out of sync w/ the songs in DJMAX but waiting to hit on the line gets the perfect 100%_while above the line is only 80%_but the 100 feels late musically_i dont know why
One thing I noticed with mania is if you use a large offset and get a teleport at the beginning of the map, it is fixed if you exit and reload the map. At least if it's using local offset instead of global
As a flashlight osumania player myself, I rely more on audio than visual.. so a good method to adjust your "universal offset" is to play a simple 1-2* song that you are extremely familiar with (rhythm/ beat), whilst playing, at the bottom of the screen or at the end of the song, you can see where your hits are at, if all your hits tend towards the left, do a "+ms" universal offset and if it tend towards the right, do "-ms" and repeat until you hit the middle throughout the song (It is also important to take note that the song you choose must be tuned/ mapped/ synced correctly, maybe ranked maps? but some still requires fine tuning and varies between individuals) However (song/ map offsets) are the opposite of universal offsets (when you hit left, you do -ms, right, you do +ms), you will usually adjust this when you'd already adjusted your universal offset and are confident in your accuracy. Non-visual mod players will tend to "sub-consciously" adjust your hits (rainbows) rather than play based on how the song beat/ rhythm is supposed to be.. I feel this is somewhat bad in a long run especially at higher difficulty, the notes are much denser and you will need to rely more on audio cue, if you are too reliant on visual, you will need to keep adjusting your offsets for every single song and it's tiring and not helpful at all.. high ranking/ experienced players will notice even the slightest off-synced with or without visual mods and adjusting universal offsets is somewhat a "rare" case since they already preset it, so it's more on the song/ map offsets that they will be fine tuning.. I'm by no means an expert but I hope it helps those who are struggling with their accuracy/ offsets :) Do correct me if I'm wrong as I'm also learning and everyone can learn together :D
Kalpa relased an update (a pretty big one) and it has added a feature where you can set where is the GAMEPLAY relevant Judjement line, the default is above the line, but you can nudge this and the visual judjement lines to make it on the line, or plumet the visual one and have sorta a difficulty modifier where the judjment line is hidden
I didn’t even realize that some rhythm games have an offset setting to compensate for lag. I tried playing Um Jammer Lammy on my modern HDTV and it was unplayable due to the input lag, since it expects an analog CRT that doesn’t have as much lag. “Game mode” on my TV didn’t help. The rapid rise of Bluetooth earbuds has led me to discover just how horrific the audio lag can be over Bluetooth.
i think these games should have a visual representation of the offsets, like used in this video, where it displays "visible notes", "visible judgement line", "actual notes", "actual judgement line", "audio track" and how those look relative to each other, to scale, and the ability to adjust them all in milliseconds, so +1ms would mean moving upwards on the chart. also, i think the reason games don't provide offsets for *all* these things is because if you set them all to 0ms, it should play the exact same as if you set them all to 5ms or any other equal value? their difference relative to each other is what makes the difference in gameplay, and wow that's just... a whole new can of worms. what offsets are mathematically necessary? audio offset -5 is the same as audio offset 0 with everything else +5, so what does this say about our universe? it's like the speed of light, ultimately it doesn't matter if the speed of light is different in different directions, because there is no observable difference and something there about relativity. i swear all of quantum physics can be traced back to whoever invented the rhythm game and clearly the complexity of offsets were a bad idea.
For years now I've though that I was the issue... that I wasn't good enough somehow... That I somehow "magically" lost any ability that I had. For context: I used to play O2Jam(7k), on a laptop with Windows7. I would play it day and night none stop because I loved the feel of the game. I didn't want to be the best, I didn't want to have the highest highscore, I didn't want to be the greatest player the world had ever seen. I hate to admit it but hay, I got really good at it, not the best player that anyone had seen by any stretch of the imagination but i could do some really wild things, atleast what I thought was wild for myself that is. I would be able to play LvL 31 songs no sweat and they would feel so great to play, the feeling of the keys and the visuals kept me hooked along with the lovely patterns that charts would form! I was so strongly addicted to that game. The time came where I had to sadly ditch Windows7, I had to upgrade my OS for fear of getting left behind with security. Around that time I had found another amazing rhythm game, OSU! and I was instantly hooked! It even had many other modes like Taiko and Mania and the multitude of keys that I would love to play, of course I gravitated to 7k. At this time I still had Windows7 Installed and everything seemed fine with myself and the game. 2 years had passed since Win 10 released and what kept me off of it were all the horror stories of what win10 would do to your performance... But I bit the bullet and Installed it. I installed OSU again and I installed the standalone emulated version of O2jam like I would always and I started to notice that things were really off with my gameplay... REALLY off... but no one else had any issues... it would seem that it would jut be me. Sure there were some OSU performance issues here and there but those were addressed rather quickly and people would say that thier issues at the moment of play would be fixed, but there was still something off... no mater how I looked and searched there was never an answer or if I would ask around people would just tell me to "play more". There was no proper mention of offsets and the only things I would find is "tweek your offset it makes you play better lol" but not how much I should tweek it too and if I should tweek it to a negative or a positive. It was so damn frustrating. Eventually as time when on I started to blame myself, telling myself that I'm just losing my talent even though I would play rythem games almost 8 hours a day(like i would always lol), then I just started to believe that I wasn't good enough anymore to play these games... It might seem silly but rythem games would give me such a boost in confidence for some reason, or rather they would make me so happy to play, so happy to hit those notes and combos well and see all those fancy flashy lights. But I wasn't having fun with the things that made me feel so happy in the past and I was starting to believe that it was really just me and that I was just becoming garbage at everything I would play... and eventually I stopped playing for long periods of time... I have always struggled with mental health ever since I was really young and playing rythem games was like a way for me to somewhat cope with the mental torture that I would have to struggle with. It might sound completely fu*cking dumb but it's true haha. I started to slowly but surly doubt myself and my abilities, and sadly that started to seep into my real life thoughts of myself as a whole. now that's another constant battler with myself seeing if I'm really good enough on anything that I do in my life. I know deep down that I do have the ability to do... anything I want to set my mind to and yet my head still tortures me with self doubt and self hatred for not being good enough for myself and these negative thought come to me AGAINST my will, I DON'T want to think like that but it just happens... it's strange to say the least(yes, I've been getting help for years now, mental health is so hard to battle lol) Went off on a different tangent there for a bit, sorry. tokaku, if you by any silly chance read this, thank you. I booted up OSU! and started to play the game. Standard, Taiko... and Mania. I was terrible and I was so inaccurate on any song, so really how I've "normally" been playing like for the past 8 or so years... what had been my nightmare for the past 8 or so years came to an end... I set the offset to -40, and to be honest I thought to myself "why the fu*k even bother, you're just dog shit anyway"... I started playing a 7k 3*, Something that wouldn't have seemed so hard to play to me way back in the day when "I could still play rythem games"... I cried so hard because for the first fucking time in so many years I finally played... well... not to the lvl i used to play but it didn't feel like an uphill battle and I finished the song with a relatively good score and rating AND most importantly I had fun with it... it made me happy again... I reset the offset back to 0 and tested the same song and failed it... with terrible accuracy on every. single. note... This actually lifted a huge burden in my mind that I had, and all those fucking years of thinking that I wasn't good enough and that I was just getting shit at every game... all those thoughts went away. I realized that it wasn't me after all, it wasn't my fault, I wasn't getting bad, I wasn't getting terrible. You helped me get closure... so don't think that this video was for nothing! I'm really so grateful tokaku! What saddens me a bit now is that all my skillz were dulled and I don't have the motivation to play 8 hours a day again because I'm old now and I got shit to do haha. Sorry if this seemed silly to any and everyone that reads this lol. Laugh at it if you want :u Thank you once again tokaku :)
I adjust judgement offset in sdvx just because I hit very early also I agree with offset being confusing, like etterna has a system where you can play a chart and it automatically adjusts offset
I laughed a lot. Great video. All the rhythm game devs should watch it before releasing their games. I'm sad that visual offset is not a thing though nowadays (I'd use it in some games). I am beat deaf which is rather rare in people so offsets are a total pain for me since I can't really say what 'on time' actually is by listening and hitting the notes. I can't say if something is late or early. So if I get the chance I just use visual offset so I can hit notes on the line (seems like input offset works fine for me too, if the visuals match). I always thought that hitting on the line was what we were supposed to do but then some games like Quaver would just totally mess up with me. Any game where I need to use two offset to make it work. aaargh.
oh, this explains a lot tbh i wish more games had either a visual offset setting or an input offset setting (assuming theres also audio offset, which most games do seem to have), i would find it very useful, bc for some reason ive always had the tendency to tap just a bit too early (because of visuals and not audio). most games i see only have an audio offset so on those games i keep getting terrible scores and then i just give up lmao
Thx for making this! Now I can get 100 accuracy! I always wonder why I never get 100 percent accuracy and always 98 percent, qhe I change my offsets now I can get better accuracy :D
fun fact: osu mania also have judgement offset, it can be adjusted in the skin.ini file from the skin you are currently using (it's called 'hit position' in the file)
My game used "input offset". The song doesn't play any earlier or later and the notes aren't in different positions but the game adds/subs x ms to your hit. It's basically "everything looks and feels fine but I still have a weird offset so just fix it".
Tja charter here for taiko simulator. So yeah, chart offset is coded by charter in the tja file. if the offset is 0, the chart is immediately played as the song commence. If the offset is negative, it delay a specific amount of time after the song commence. If the offset is positive then it does the opposite. I normally use arrow vortex app to determine the offset, since I always chart with the first few bar empty.
In osu, and quaver if you completely strip the skin and only use bar notes, and the drawn judgement line which is about 1.5 pixels tall you hit in-between the line. The line is small so its hard to observe this.
Offset is the one thing in rhythm games that irk me the most cause I can never get a solid answer on how to adjust the specific game I just sort of wing it and hope it feels better.
What you call input offset and visual offset are effectively the same thing. Audio offset and chart offset are effectively the same thing. (This is when not considering edge-cases like start of the song breaking in some way, which should be compensated if the game is coded properly). Basically, there are 3 things you need to sync relative to each other: Audio, visuals and physical input. When you take physical input as the reference point, this means you have to adjust audio offset and visual offset, so that they match the physical input. Visual offset is not a major problem in rhythm games on PC, but phones can have tons of visual input lag, requiring you to tap way before judgement line. Sadly most mobile games I've played don't have visual offset setting or it's extremely scuffed and inadequate like in Deemo.
okokok so i would love for u (obviously if possible!! no worries if u can't or just don't want to hehe) to review the superstar kpop games !! i love playing ssateez its my personal fav cus the others don't rlly seem that hard even if i like some of the music but it's alright! bc i'm not really that skilled at rhythm games (seriously cannot get 3 stars on the hardest 5 songs on ssateez) i would love to see someone like you who is very experienced in rhythm games to see what's good and what's not so good abt them! :> personally i've experienced high prices (seriously,, someone tell them no one is buying that 😭at that price?,, sheesh,,), not reading, and lag here and there, as well as, sometimes the apps even telling u to restart/retry bc of wtv reason ? (also idk if it bothers everyone but another thing that's kind of disappointing is no speed adjustments, i would love to speed it up sometimes but ig i can understand why not too!) idrk sdjdj it's still fun tho ! anyways,, that's it sdfjhj
So generally the only three delays you can measure are audio-visual, audio-input and visual-input - where audio-visual = audio - input + input - visual = audio-input - (visual-input), right? So that would mean that ideally you'd have two offset options for any two of these (since the last one can be calculated by the others); ideally audio-input and visual-input considering those are the easiest to dial in by just having the user make inputs to the beat either visually or via audio; unless I'm missing something
I'm not an expert , but here is my take on offset. First of all, to have offset, you need to have something to offset from. In any rhythm game, there are 3 timelines: Visual, Audio and Chart. Ultimately we want to make what we see and what we hear in time with when we need to hit the note, so we will consider the chart to be that fixed point. From there, you ultimately have 2 types of offset, visual and audio. Both are as they were described in the video. "Chart offset" is just audio offset in reverse, instead of moving the audio, you move both the chart and visual instead, which in practice does the same thing as audio offset, just negative instead of positive (vice versa). "Judgement offset" sounds different, but it is actually just visual and audio offset combined. Moving both visual and audio later, that means you will need to hit earlier (vice versa). You can easily isolate visual offset by playing with the sound muted. Once visual is in sync, any offset remaining is the audio offset. As for what the number means, it all depends on the implementation, there simply isn't a standard on that as far as I can tell. Use the provided wizard to set it if there is one. If not, you will have to experiment with it.
I would guess the the flipped offset directions in OSU are because one is transforming the individual timing while the other is transforming the timer itself. Adding the same value to both types of offset has the opposite effect. The local offset should correct for badly timed songs so the if the local offset was set to 100ms and there was a hitcircle that would want to be hit 10 seconds into the song it now wants to be hit 10.1 seconds into the song. The global offset should correct for the general latency of your setup. The could be done is by adding the offset to the timer itself so all notes still want to be hit at the same time but the timer they are using to check the time is off by the offset. So the same offset of 100ms added to the timer would make it so the notes want to be hit at 9.9 + 0.1 = 10 seconds of the transformed timer which would occur 100ms earlier than without the offset.
ok wtf I did the -40ms thing and it actually drastically shot my acc up, although my reading got messed up a bit. ive been playing mania for several months and never realized universal offset existed
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
1:51 (?)
OUCH I ACCIDENTALLY LEFT AN AUDIO CLIP IN THERE WITHOUT REALISING
@@tokaku lmao
THANK YOU FOR POINTING IT OUT I THOUGHT I WAS GOING INSANE
@@tokaku I'm imagining the bar of audio sitting right under the video living it's best life...at least it's drowned out pretty well :')
@@tokaku i thoughti simped for tokaku so much that i hear her voice in my head
Finally somebody else who is confused about what adding and subtracting offset in separate rhythm games actually does
offset in general is just a pain in the ass
It's easy to deal with, just use something with no delay
@@chemioj2317 ...
@@chemioj2317 4head
@@chemioj2317 you can't be serious
1:16
"watching where the note lands is a bad practice"
me who focuses on my character doing the dance while i click to the rhythm randomly
average idol game player:
Or ro beats
Yo, I've legit been playing OSU!Mania for a couple of months but the moment I changed the offset to what was suggested I immediately started scoring and hitting better. This is why offset is important guys. This video has legit opened my eyes.
Both Quaver and Etterna will let you find your exact offset so you don't just have to guess, jsyk
noted
@Xavier Fox they have an offset calibration option in the settings iirc
what offset?
@@tokaku Oh right, I was meaning to ask what was the song at 2:32? I wanna try out that chart and the song is nice.
even as someone who feels like they're experienced *enough* with rhythm games, having this sort of categorization and explanation in one place is v useful, thx
9:43 god this is exactly the frustration I have and wanted to hear THANK YOU AMEN
Finally someone mentions where a song starts immediately and the notes teleport into existence. This has been bugging me for years in standard. I really hope this is fixed in lazer
Man, I can really feel the improvement in quality with each new upload.
God I feel like there's too much to talk about after watching this, but anyway huge thanks for all the effort in making a convoluted topic so easy to understand!
1. Tokaku is absolutely right about the categories of offsets. You always end up messing around with one among the note visuals, starting time of audios, starting time of charts or the judgement time windows. You can always tell by setting an extreme value to it and see what happens.
2. Even though you'd probably see only two of them in a given game, every one is quite important. For a game like Arcaea with very limited space for chart reading it feels cursed to play with a 300ms of input latency and chart offset as it actually takes up your reaction time (A note is visible from 0ms to 500ms. With its corresponding music beat at 500ms, you are supposed to hit it at 500ms. But your input reaches the game at 800ms so you change chart offset to make the note supposed to be hit at 800ms. However as you moved the chart the note will be visible from 300ms to 800ms and only 200ms left for you to react is really dumb.) and as a result your ability to play at higher scrolling speeds. And almost every mobile rhythm game suffers in this very same manner. To all future devs, adding note offset really helps with it (not only monitor lags)!
3. The bad thing about games with key sounds (osu!, and especially key-sound-based games like iidx and bms) is that its impossible to attempt to play a key sound earlier than the time you hit, thus there is no way to compensate for audio latency if you play with key sounds on. What's worse, even if the game implements any other offset options, it sucks when you change them as the key sounds will always go offbeat. The fact is, rustbell (the guy you saw posting in osu forum in the vid), formerly #1 in China, had been really frustrated about that problem in osu and he quit as a result. Recently EmertXE has written a blog post (www.bilibili.com/read/cv15801974) (note that it's in Chinese) on how to eradicate audio latency and hope it might be helpful to top tier osu players and pc rhythm gamers alike.
4. Another important factor in determining offset for your own gameplay is the way you read charts. In Japanese terms there are two ways of reading, 目押し and 音押し. I'll refer to them as hit-on-sight and hit-on-beat (I also coined them myself lol) later on. Hit-on-sight players focus on when the note reaches the judgement line, and figure out when to hit based on the distances between note and line, or between note and previous note. Among them some skilled players have their line of sight fixed on the judgement line and some space over it (opposed to 1:10) to really get a good sense of when exactly the note crosses the judgement line. Many players approach rhythm games in this way. Hit-on-beat players on the other hand try to infer when to hit by aligning notes they see to the beats of the music. Some, including me, even covers the lower part of the lane (like what HD does in o!m but it doesn't lift automatically. Why the hell would a cover lift itself peppy???) to hold their line of sight at a constant height as well as to completely remove the influence of hit-on-sight mindset. As I've discovered among my rhythm game club members, most players are hit-on-sight players, while only a few others, including me, are hit-on-beat players, and you can figure it out for yourself. Hit-on-beat players tend to share the same offset values in a given game (e.g. -40ms in o!m or +0.4 +0.4 on maimai post-Deluxe cabinets). However, hit-on-sight players' offset value vary wildly between one another, and even the same guy may have really different (from a hit-on-beat perspective) values across many games. I think it is because they kinda neglect music beats when they focus excessively on visual timings.
5. And some fun stories to share.
Though this one is going a bit off topic, I do think hit-on-beat is the better way to approach rhythm games, especially if you are trying to find consistency in your play. But there are certain games designed to ruin hit-on-beat players' experience. Cytus has got zure (offbeat notes) and scan line tricks (like in L) all over the place. Not to mention SV in Cytus II makes things even worse. And dense 4K charts along with "delay"-style BMS charts make me doubt in what rhythm am I supposed to hit the keys. I wonder if it is just that I'm trash or they are real bad designs.
Also, bad offset settings not only affect your gameplay score, it actually f***s up your beat perception (in addition to what Tokaku mentioned at 5:53). Two of my friends played maimai on pre-Deluxe cabinets, which is infamously known to have really bad offset issues - you need to set it to the max positive value to just even get close. They played for like 2 years with offset 0 and they are now playing rhythm games in a way that music is purely irrelevant. They constantly hit notes before anyone can hear the beats, with a solid offset difference of around 100ms earlier compared with me.
Post-Deluxe cabinets fixed the issue, but in Chinese versions the translated descriptions of offsets were by some accident swapped (even now it hasn't been swapped back xd). One offset says change me if you are a hit-on-sight player, and is actually chart offset. The other says the opposite, and is actually judgement offset. This continues to cause confusions till today, since you are supposed to change them altogether to in effect change the audio offset, and I'm planning on making a video to make this clear.
And again thanks for making such a great video!
thanks for this comment! :D
actually, i never noticed that pre-maimai dx cabs had such bad offset D: maybe it was cause i was new to rhythm games when i mained it, (it was the first arcade rhythm game i mained) but looking back no wonder i had such bad accuracy lol
also, regarding the hit-on-sight vs hit-on-beat preference, i'm actually a hit-on-beat player and i thought that was what was more common! i play sdvx on usc and looking at the lower half of the chart lanes really messes up my reading, so i used Hidden to cover that space up. normally, when i had tried this before (stepmania, lr2) it would mess up my timing, even though i was still reading the top half of the chart lanes. but when i used it in usc, my timing wasn't affected at all! perhaps i switched from hit-on-sight to hit-on-beat over time, or that i just got better at timing.
.......whoa. I've been having these deliberations in my mind about this stuff for so long. Thank you. This was an awesome comment.
hit on sight feels cold blooded
i get too excited about the music
As a video game developer, offset is really hard to manage too. Not only do you have to consider all types of offset, you also have to decide what to sync all these offsets to, which might mean adding or subtracting a handful of numbers across dozens of elements, including menus, save files, and of course, in the gameplay itself.
I have been thinking for a couple of months that I had to hit circle notes "above the line" and have been changing my vision to help with this. Now I trained myself to hit "above the line" and hit constantly early
pretty easy to verify chart offset in osu because you can change the offset in a map when the audio has already started and since the audio doesnt stutter when you change it the only possible explanation would be chart offset :)
on (fixed in lazer)
it'll be on the line in lazer??? I wonder how skinning support for mania will be if hit positions are still drawn at the bottom of notes. I look forward to it!
*click* b r u h
I often wondered if the context of playing a rhythm game is going to affect the reaction timing of the player.
For example, in instrument simulators like taiko, beatmania, Gitadora, etc, players are supposed to be the performer/musician of the soundtrack, therefore the reaction to the notes has to be sooner in order to match the background. On the other hand, games with less emphasis on audio creation (often no keysound) like DDR, Osu!, ADOFAI, and beat saber, the player follow the song more instinctively, therefore the timing is often set on the beat rather than before the beat.
0:32
Holy crap that's smart!
Most of the times other youtubers do a "fake early endcard" joke, the dead give away is that no annotations pop up
For someone who has been playing DDR for 20 years and other rhythm games, I’ve found this very helpful! I’ve not seen anyone else who has been able to explain it in simple terms and examples. Thank you!
I broke through a plateau in iidx when I adjusted the offset for my ears rather than my eyes. With the key sounds making it easy to lose track of the beat, training my eyes to judge a little later for the sake of keeping the clicks in line with audio helped my stamina. All the fine tuning goes out the window when I get to the arcade since I’m a bit tall for the lightning model and I’m stuck playing in an awkward horse stance. I’m surprised they didn’t add height options when they redesigned the iidx cabs.
this video was VERY helpful for me who's making a rhythm game, helped me understand the differences between different kinds of offsets. thanks a lot!
You are correct in that osu! uses what you call "chart offset", where everything (beatmap, hitsounds, storyboard, video, judgements) except for the audio track is shifted. To test this, you can play a map with AP and observe that the audio track doesn't skip or distort while changing the local offset in-game. With a positive local offset, everything except the audio track shifts forwards. Universal offset is exactly the same but in the other direction (and in lazer you can change UO while in-game too).
2:19 I always wondered why my keyboard never syncs in with the music in osu! mania....... finally changed to -150 offset and finally it is in sync. never been so happy xD
That’s a huge offset, wow
are you using Bluetooth headphones? that's exactly the offset i used when i played with BT audio
@@LC-hd5dc normal headphones. My laptop's drivers, hardware, etc. Probly sucks that's why xD
lolol the middle fingers to bandori. tokakus salt to idol rhythm games is so funny to me as an avid player
Great job with the visuals to try and explain a convoluted topic, well done!
Title: on the line or above the line as a curiosity
Content: a comprehensive overview of different types of offsets and explanations for each that not even rhythm game developers necessarily understand
This video is now my definitive resource for offset knowledge, thank you so much for making it
this is def the most helpful video for customizing your settings
Love the rant at the end. I resonated so much with it.
OMG THANK YOU I AM STRUGGLING WITH THE OFFSET SO MUCH
this video couldn't have gotten recommended to me at a better time. Literally just started playing Quaver a few HOURS ago and was freaking out because I didn't really know when to hit.
Aa its so nice to see you back!!
Jokes on you, I hit it in the middle
This is a good explanation to why my skill has a weird cap and why I can't seem to get any better at a specific rhythm game
Cool video, just found your channel recently when looking for a Sound Voltex controller and now I became addicted. Cheers!
The first minute of the video was so nice, I wish more youtubers did this
I know it hurts watch time alot, so you have my gratitude and respect
Tokaku, thank you again for another quality video! Glad I’m not the only one slightly curious about this but I’ve never put an effort into researching 🤣 (and that Wrapping up (not) part cracks me up beyond belief!!! Preach girl!!! Say it louder!!!)
In popn music, it's on the line, you have to line up the middle opening of the notes with the line :)
I remember back when there was home versions of IIDX (at least from 3rd style to 11th Style RED) that it was considered 'above the line' by the community. Granted, I don't remember what forums thought that was the case. And this was back before the HD revolution, so CRT players were playing 'above the line'. But yeah, it was pretty obvious where the judgment points were on the notes of pop'n (well except for the White Pop-Kuns) at the very least (also granted, it helped that there's no 'beat waves' unlike what IIDX has (that glow that pulses in time with the music)). So, this video was an eyeopener for a 'former' IIDX player
oook this video just explained why my key presses feel late of my samsung tv w/ 120hz auto motion plus
i dont wanna turn motion interpolation off_so I'll adjust the judgement line in djmax if that option exists
'cause i swear hitting perfect 100% on the line_i have to press the key late to do it_so gotta adjust something
imma just binge watch this entire channel_then go back into the game_'cause i love the videos & im in love w/ you
i've tested it a bit, and i'm pretty sure that osu's universal offset in settings uses chart offset, while local offset changes audio offset. this is why changing universal offset to -50ms will have the same effect as setting local offset to 50ms, one moves chart back and other audio forwards
very helpful video for understanding this system, thanks!
hmm I could've sworn the local offset uses chart offset as well... I remember setting my offset when I played AR11 to -25ms on those maps and I'd see approach circles go backwards...
(EDIT: nvm just tested, local offset uses chart offset as well, notes are still teleporting forwards or backwards depending on your offset)
@@tokaku so local offset is just backwards to universal for no reason?? osu good game
I feel like the rant at the end was personal
Probably one of your best videos
Informative and humouristic
Amazing video, as always
Getting a proper offset is the bane of my existence as a newer rhythm gamer.
I'm always second-guessing if I picked the "correct" offset
when everything between -8 and -43 feels just as right and wrong to play on-beat to
As a new rhythm gamer, I simply assume I'm playing wrong. Sometimes I hit late and sometimes I hit early. There doesn't seem to be reason other than I'm bad at the game. I only play osu though, on a decent pc
It’s been one of my biggest struggles too.
@@Kirito_2016 are you trying to sync the sound of your key-taps or the hitsound to the beat of the music?
I'm 99% sure Osu's offset wizard is meant for syncing hitsounds.
I get around -9ms offset using peppy's offset beatmap, but a massive -73ms offset if I'm syncing my key-taps for mania.
@@iceman78772 I've never though about it. If I notice I'm consistently hitting early, I'll simply try to tap later.
Some games are just all over the place. Colorful Stage has zero delay for me at all. Meanwhile Arcaea had massive delays and i just could not find the right offset so i deleted the game.
oh my god i can hear tokaku in my head why do i hear two tokakus
Editing mistake
Yo !!! thanks for this great vid... after making the adjusments to the skin , everything goes so nice. Also i didnt know about the offset lag for the music on windows.. i changed my global compensation to -55 and i can hit the notes exactly where the beat sounds. TYSM
OK so maimai calls its offset "type A" and "type B" with an explanation is a good thing. And from this video I understand that's chart offset and judgement offset. Thank you for making this video!
even tho i wasnt actively thinking about the "on or above" question, it is what made me switch to arrows tbh, it cant get any more clear than that
I love seeing the behind the scenes for this video in your “blank” channel. Really diffrent vibes
Tokaku back with a banger 🔥🔥🔥
4:12 dude has even got 20€ bill on that table 🗿
I downloaded Quaver recently and was like “ok wait am I hitting above or on the line??” so, thanks for this LOL
I’m so used to hitting on the line mannn T_T
Hello, osu!mania player who has skinned mania multiple times before, The hit position depends on the skin, like in the default skin, it's above, but it is possible to set it to on the line if you strech the judgement line.
She mentions that in the video.
thanks tokaku sensei ive learn something new in rhythm game terminologies
Off topic but I love the background, keep up with the great videos
what's even better is that there are rhythm games that uses what i will call "the calibration screen" like ADOFAI and RD.
And I love the feature since i used to have a not so powerful PC
btw i haven't fully watched the video so don't punch me on the face
"so what's the point of this video"
"I dunno"
Me: slurping stranger's hand instead of coffee
I really need this kind of video, thank you so much
"That's the end of the video, thanks for watching." Omg lol
"Just hit on the line."
This was fun.
High quality video. Thx for the information
depends, but when I use bar skins, it is usually on the line
I hit above the line.
the reason why I use this in iidx is simple: for many songs, 1.5 HiSPEED is enough, thus making the timing window for the most songs just above the judgement
My thinking was that if the line were thinner than the bar then tapping on the line would mean the bar is half way below the line while you're tapping
0:33 ok I legit right here_i adore you
btw_I just got back into rhythm games_used to play Stepmania DDR mods
now just found Taiko festival on Switch_& DJMAX Respect V on Steam
I hit above the line_if I wait to hit on the line_it feels late & out of sync w/ the songs in DJMAX
but waiting to hit on the line gets the perfect 100%_while above the line is only 80%_but the 100 feels late musically_i dont know why
One thing I noticed with mania is if you use a large offset and get a teleport at the beginning of the map, it is fixed if you exit and reload the map. At least if it's using local offset instead of global
sometimes you hit the Line And Above
I personally hit above the line, and ive been wondering this same thing. Awesome video :)
As a flashlight osumania player myself, I rely more on audio than visual.. so a good method to adjust your "universal offset" is to play a simple 1-2* song that you are extremely familiar with (rhythm/ beat), whilst playing, at the bottom of the screen or at the end of the song, you can see where your hits are at, if all your hits tend towards the left, do a "+ms" universal offset and if it tend towards the right, do "-ms" and repeat until you hit the middle throughout the song (It is also important to take note that the song you choose must be tuned/ mapped/ synced correctly, maybe ranked maps? but some still requires fine tuning and varies between individuals)
However (song/ map offsets) are the opposite of universal offsets (when you hit left, you do -ms, right, you do +ms), you will usually adjust this when you'd already adjusted your universal offset and are confident in your accuracy.
Non-visual mod players will tend to "sub-consciously" adjust your hits (rainbows) rather than play based on how the song beat/ rhythm is supposed to be.. I feel this is somewhat bad in a long run especially at higher difficulty, the notes are much denser and you will need to rely more on audio cue, if you are too reliant on visual, you will need to keep adjusting your offsets for every single song and it's tiring and not helpful at all.. high ranking/ experienced players will notice even the slightest off-synced with or without visual mods and adjusting universal offsets is somewhat a "rare" case since they already preset it, so it's more on the song/ map offsets that they will be fine tuning..
I'm by no means an expert but I hope it helps those who are struggling with their accuracy/ offsets :) Do correct me if I'm wrong as I'm also learning and everyone can learn together :D
my favorite 30 second video ever
Kalpa relased an update (a pretty big one) and it has added a feature where you can set where is the GAMEPLAY relevant Judjement line, the default is above the line, but you can nudge this and the visual judjement lines to make it on the line, or plumet the visual one and have sorta a difficulty modifier where the judjment line is hidden
Bold to assume I can tap on beat
I didn’t even realize that some rhythm games have an offset setting to compensate for lag. I tried playing Um Jammer Lammy on my modern HDTV and it was unplayable due to the input lag, since it expects an analog CRT that doesn’t have as much lag. “Game mode” on my TV didn’t help.
The rapid rise of Bluetooth earbuds has led me to discover just how horrific the audio lag can be over Bluetooth.
i think these games should have a visual representation of the offsets, like used in this video, where it displays "visible notes", "visible judgement line", "actual notes", "actual judgement line", "audio track" and how those look relative to each other, to scale, and the ability to adjust them all in milliseconds, so +1ms would mean moving upwards on the chart. also, i think the reason games don't provide offsets for *all* these things is because if you set them all to 0ms, it should play the exact same as if you set them all to 5ms or any other equal value? their difference relative to each other is what makes the difference in gameplay, and wow that's just... a whole new can of worms. what offsets are mathematically necessary? audio offset -5 is the same as audio offset 0 with everything else +5, so what does this say about our universe? it's like the speed of light, ultimately it doesn't matter if the speed of light is different in different directions, because there is no observable difference and something there about relativity. i swear all of quantum physics can be traced back to whoever invented the rhythm game and clearly the complexity of offsets were a bad idea.
0:32 i genuinely thought the video ended and i almost clicked out of the video
For years now I've though that I was the issue... that I wasn't good enough somehow... That I somehow "magically" lost any ability that I had.
For context: I used to play O2Jam(7k), on a laptop with Windows7. I would play it day and night none stop because I loved the feel of the game. I didn't want to be the best, I didn't want to have the highest highscore, I didn't want to be the greatest player the world had ever seen. I hate to admit it but hay, I got really good at it, not the best player that anyone had seen by any stretch of the imagination but i could do some really wild things, atleast what I thought was wild for myself that is. I would be able to play LvL 31 songs no sweat and they would feel so great to play, the feeling of the keys and the visuals kept me hooked along with the lovely patterns that charts would form! I was so strongly addicted to that game.
The time came where I had to sadly ditch Windows7, I had to upgrade my OS for fear of getting left behind with security. Around that time I had found another amazing rhythm game, OSU! and I was instantly hooked! It even had many other modes like Taiko and Mania and the multitude of keys that I would love to play, of course I gravitated to 7k. At this time I still had Windows7 Installed and everything seemed fine with myself and the game. 2 years had passed since Win 10 released and what kept me off of it were all the horror stories of what win10 would do to your performance... But I bit the bullet and Installed it. I installed OSU again and I installed the standalone emulated version of O2jam like I would always and I started to notice that things were really off with my gameplay... REALLY off... but no one else had any issues... it would seem that it would jut be me. Sure there were some OSU performance issues here and there but those were addressed rather quickly and people would say that thier issues at the moment of play would be fixed, but there was still something off... no mater how I looked and searched there was never an answer or if I would ask around people would just tell me to "play more". There was no proper mention of offsets and the only things I would find is "tweek your offset it makes you play better lol" but not how much I should tweek it too and if I should tweek it to a negative or a positive. It was so damn frustrating.
Eventually as time when on I started to blame myself, telling myself that I'm just losing my talent even though I would play rythem games almost 8 hours a day(like i would always lol), then I just started to believe that I wasn't good enough anymore to play these games... It might seem silly but rythem games would give me such a boost in confidence for some reason, or rather they would make me so happy to play, so happy to hit those notes and combos well and see all those fancy flashy lights. But I wasn't having fun with the things that made me feel so happy in the past and I was starting to believe that it was really just me and that I was just becoming garbage at everything I would play... and eventually I stopped playing for long periods of time...
I have always struggled with mental health ever since I was really young and playing rythem games was like a way for me to somewhat cope with the mental torture that I would have to struggle with. It might sound completely fu*cking dumb but it's true haha. I started to slowly but surly doubt myself and my abilities, and sadly that started to seep into my real life thoughts of myself as a whole. now that's another constant battler with myself seeing if I'm really good enough on anything that I do in my life. I know deep down that I do have the ability to do... anything I want to set my mind to and yet my head still tortures me with self doubt and self hatred for not being good enough for myself and these negative thought come to me AGAINST my will, I DON'T want to think like that but it just happens... it's strange to say the least(yes, I've been getting help for years now, mental health is so hard to battle lol)
Went off on a different tangent there for a bit, sorry. tokaku, if you by any silly chance read this, thank you. I booted up OSU! and started to play the game. Standard, Taiko... and Mania. I was terrible and I was so inaccurate on any song, so really how I've "normally" been playing like for the past 8 or so years... what had been my nightmare for the past 8 or so years came to an end... I set the offset to -40, and to be honest I thought to myself "why the fu*k even bother, you're just dog shit anyway"... I started playing a 7k 3*, Something that wouldn't have seemed so hard to play to me way back in the day when "I could still play rythem games"... I cried so hard because for the first fucking time in so many years I finally played... well... not to the lvl i used to play but it didn't feel like an uphill battle and I finished the song with a relatively good score and rating AND most importantly I had fun with it... it made me happy again... I reset the offset back to 0 and tested the same song and failed it... with terrible accuracy on every. single. note...
This actually lifted a huge burden in my mind that I had, and all those fucking years of thinking that I wasn't good enough and that I was just getting shit at every game... all those thoughts went away. I realized that it wasn't me after all, it wasn't my fault, I wasn't getting bad, I wasn't getting terrible.
You helped me get closure... so don't think that this video was for nothing! I'm really so grateful tokaku! What saddens me a bit now is that all my skillz were dulled and I don't have the motivation to play 8 hours a day again because I'm old now and I got shit to do haha. Sorry if this seemed silly to any and everyone that reads this lol. Laugh at it if you want :u
Thank you once again tokaku :)
I think you explained offsets very well!
me who plays with flashlight:
"What the hell is a judgement line??"
fl and hd gamers confirmed gigachads
I adjust judgement offset in sdvx just because I hit very early
also I agree with offset being confusing, like etterna has a system where you can play a chart and it automatically adjusts offset
I laughed a lot. Great video. All the rhythm game devs should watch it before releasing their games. I'm sad that visual offset is not a thing though nowadays (I'd use it in some games). I am beat deaf which is rather rare in people so offsets are a total pain for me since I can't really say what 'on time' actually is by listening and hitting the notes. I can't say if something is late or early. So if I get the chance I just use visual offset so I can hit notes on the line (seems like input offset works fine for me too, if the visuals match). I always thought that hitting on the line was what we were supposed to do but then some games like Quaver would just totally mess up with me. Any game where I need to use two offset to make it work. aaargh.
oh, this explains a lot
tbh i wish more games had either a visual offset setting or an input offset setting (assuming theres also audio offset, which most games do seem to have), i would find it very useful, bc for some reason ive always had the tendency to tap just a bit too early (because of visuals and not audio). most games i see only have an audio offset so on those games i keep getting terrible scores and then i just give up lmao
god i can relate to that last one on the end
like what does + mean, what does - mean???
Thx for making this! Now I can get 100 accuracy! I always wonder why I never get 100 percent accuracy and always 98 percent, qhe I change my offsets now I can get better accuracy :D
8:51 my real question is why discord light theme
fun fact: osu mania also have judgement offset, it can be adjusted in the skin.ini file from the skin you are currently using (it's called 'hit position' in the file)
Thanks, this video helps a lot. As a IIDX beginner I know how to change my offset now.
My game used "input offset". The song doesn't play any earlier or later and the notes aren't in different positions but the game adds/subs x ms to your hit. It's basically "everything looks and feels fine but I still have a weird offset so just fix it".
Tja charter here for taiko simulator.
So yeah, chart offset is coded by charter in the tja file. if the offset is 0, the chart is immediately played as the song commence.
If the offset is negative, it delay a specific amount of time after the song commence.
If the offset is positive then it does the opposite.
I normally use arrow vortex app to determine the offset, since I always chart with the first few bar empty.
As a person that play mania for a year with bar
I sometime hit the on the line and above the line depend on scrollspeed i use
In osu, and quaver if you completely strip the skin and only use bar notes, and the drawn judgement line which is about 1.5 pixels tall you hit in-between the line. The line is small so its hard to observe this.
Love your content
Finally, now im waiting for that SDVX introduction video
Offset is the one thing in rhythm games that irk me the most cause I can never get a solid answer on how to adjust the specific game I just sort of wing it and hope it feels better.
What you call input offset and visual offset are effectively the same thing. Audio offset and chart offset are effectively the same thing. (This is when not considering edge-cases like start of the song breaking in some way, which should be compensated if the game is coded properly).
Basically, there are 3 things you need to sync relative to each other: Audio, visuals and physical input. When you take physical input as the reference point, this means you have to adjust audio offset and visual offset, so that they match the physical input.
Visual offset is not a major problem in rhythm games on PC, but phones can have tons of visual input lag, requiring you to tap way before judgement line. Sadly most mobile games I've played don't have visual offset setting or it's extremely scuffed and inadequate like in Deemo.
okokok so i would love for u (obviously if possible!! no worries if u can't or just don't want to hehe) to review the superstar kpop games !! i love playing ssateez its my personal fav cus the others don't rlly seem that hard even if i like some of the music but it's alright! bc i'm not really that skilled at rhythm games (seriously cannot get 3 stars on the hardest 5 songs on ssateez) i would love to see someone like you who is very experienced in rhythm games to see what's good and what's not so good abt them! :> personally i've experienced high prices (seriously,, someone tell them no one is buying that 😭at that price?,, sheesh,,), not reading, and lag here and there, as well as, sometimes the apps even telling u to restart/retry bc of wtv reason ? (also idk if it bothers everyone but another thing that's kind of disappointing is no speed adjustments, i would love to speed it up sometimes but ig i can understand why not too!) idrk sdjdj it's still fun tho ! anyways,, that's it sdfjhj
So generally the only three delays you can measure are audio-visual, audio-input and visual-input - where audio-visual = audio - input + input - visual = audio-input - (visual-input), right?
So that would mean that ideally you'd have two offset options for any two of these (since the last one can be calculated by the others); ideally audio-input and visual-input considering those are the easiest to dial in by just having the user make inputs to the beat either visually or via audio; unless I'm missing something
I'm not an expert , but here is my take on offset.
First of all, to have offset, you need to have something to offset from. In any rhythm game, there are 3 timelines: Visual, Audio and Chart. Ultimately we want to make what we see and what we hear in time with when we need to hit the note, so we will consider the chart to be that fixed point.
From there, you ultimately have 2 types of offset, visual and audio. Both are as they were described in the video.
"Chart offset" is just audio offset in reverse, instead of moving the audio, you move both the chart and visual instead, which in practice does the same thing as audio offset, just negative instead of positive (vice versa).
"Judgement offset" sounds different, but it is actually just visual and audio offset combined. Moving both visual and audio later, that means you will need to hit earlier (vice versa).
You can easily isolate visual offset by playing with the sound muted. Once visual is in sync, any offset remaining is the audio offset.
As for what the number means, it all depends on the implementation, there simply isn't a standard on that as far as I can tell. Use the provided wizard to set it if there is one. If not, you will have to experiment with it.
Ty for the usc offset note
I don't even play these kind of games and I still thought it was a good and useful video 👍👍👍
9:43 this explains my pain, I have to change the offset always when I'm recording on mobile..
Haha, kinda love how you sort of did the opposite of clickbait in this video.
Adofai really solves this issue by just adding a calibration when you open the game for the first time
I would guess the the flipped offset directions in OSU are because one is transforming the individual timing while the other is transforming the timer itself. Adding the same value to both types of offset has the opposite effect.
The local offset should correct for badly timed songs so the if the local offset was set to 100ms and there was a hitcircle that would want to be hit 10 seconds into the song it now wants to be hit 10.1 seconds into the song.
The global offset should correct for the general latency of your setup. The could be done is by adding the offset to the timer itself so all notes still want to be hit at the same time but the timer they are using to check the time is off by the offset. So the same offset of 100ms added to the timer would make it so the notes want to be hit at 9.9 + 0.1 = 10 seconds of the transformed timer which would occur 100ms earlier than without the offset.
ok wtf I did the -40ms thing and it actually drastically shot my acc up, although my reading got messed up a bit.
ive been playing mania for several months and never realized universal offset existed