Sign a contract. Sign a contract. Sign a contract. Put the risk in writing and make the customer assume the responsibility. You all knew this was wrong, because you filmed yourselves saying that during construction. If the customer threatens to pull the plug on payment... go to court. Small Claims Court is very reasonable. And your written contract will save you.
I run a larger paving business in the northern part of Canada. Something most clients don't understand is that material inevitably freezes and moves. Having silt sand as a base is no good, one customer insisted on it staying so I had him write off his warranty because he didn't want to spend the extra money for new material when there is "perfectly good material" present. After that winter, the following season I get a phone call from him asking to take a look at it. Our asphalt cracked and he wanted me to warranty it. Long story short, a few meetings, lawyer meetings, settlement. He lost and I won all because I had him sign off on the work specifically for that reason. Our lawyer said that if anything, always get specific sign off on parts of the job that may cause future issues if the customer doesn't want to pay for a fix. Can't stress it enough.
I’m a landscaper and I’ve been watching your RUclips videos along time and you’ve help me a lot and I finally got my first bobcat skid steer and I love it and it takes me less time less stress and more money I went from mowing yards and doing flower beds on average by myself making $500 a day to almost $1200 and I can wait to make more and I’ve learned a lot from you thanks buddy keep them up
As a science teacher, I have been using this video for years to teach about erosion and erosion control techniques student can use on their final project for our erosion unit. Thanks for the great content!
Way to own up to a higher standard. Probably lesson learned is to communicate the risks to the client better and make them sign off on it if they force a change on you
As a concrete guy who works in the construction field . I respect Stanley and his attitude. Great job working with your guys and valuing their opinions
I put everything in writing, once the contract has been written anything new will have an addendum added in. In this case I would have wrote in the contract the issues that can come about and that it is solely recommended by the client. And NEVER do a job that size for free. Your company is established your work speaks for itself. I understand protecting the brand but your in business to make money. Not lose or break even. When these things happen to me, I pull up the contract and say those 4 words. "I told you so"
Thanks for sharing and being honest. I really enjoy your channel! This looks like something a lot of us has faced over the years. I am really glad that you are willing to put it out there and take a step back and look at both sides. Really impressive!
Thank you for posting this video. Contractual writing could have prevented this and I appreciate you helping us fellow construction/landscaping entrepreneurs learn from this experience.
i am a retired attorney in Pittsburgh, PA and did general Civil Litigation and some other legal practice areas for some 28 years. one of the things i did a lot was to sit as a "Judge" with two other Attorneys in the "small claims" Court at the Pittsburgh Court House. this forum had jurisdiction up to $25k and heard primarily landlord/tenant disputes and homeowner/contractor disputes. i probably sat on more than 300 contractor suits. one single "pattern" occurred OVER AND OVER again with the contractor suits: the home owner "thought" he was "getting" one kind of project and the contractor "thought" he was "providing" another type of project. the critical advice i always gave the losing litigant - and private clients who came into my office - was to make sure the homeowner and contractor go over EVERY DETAIL of the project AND the EXACT materials to be used. BOTH parties MUST understand what is to be done and the materials to be used. once the "overall" agreement is settled upon, EVER DETAIL MUST be reduced to writing. the writing then MUST say it includes the ENTIRE project and that NO CHANGES IN ANY DETAIL shall occur without a written agreement signed by both parties. as to changes, it should be clear that any changes MAY or WILL result in an increase in costs for the project. given that the Pittsburgh climate can go through about a 100 degree swing in a year, additional advice included the fact that every written contract should have a SPECIFIC discussion on how the weather "could" affect the completion of the project or the "longevity" of the project/improvements. any "warranty" to the work and/or materials should be SPELLED OUT in the contract. after years of representing either homeowners suing contractors or defending contractors against homeowner lawsuits, the bottom line is - YOU CANNOT PUT TOO MUCH INFORMATION IN A WRITTEN CONSTRUCTION CONTRACT! NO contractor should operate in this "litigious society" without retaining an attorney who can review and/or WRITE project contracts for the contractor.
Seems to me It would have just had to go to court. If I knew the change order would not work or was unsafe I would have not done it. Just think if that road was not there. You could have had A LOT more damage done to the neighbors. I am surprised that you would do this job with your experience. Do you not use written contracts ? I would have had the exchange order in writing explaining your concern and would have walked away and took it to court. The law would have been on your side as a professional contractor. Your work is your reputation. No one will see "He said, She said" they will just see your work and what company did it. I have a story to back my statement but it would take a page to tell it. Most of the time if your right. Your right and will be took care of. JMO. I am not being disrespectful. Love your videos. Thanks for sharing. God bless
Your right- part of what had to be edited to make this an 8 minute video instead of 28 minutes was the fact that I messed up on getting the change orders in writing and also making my customer release me of any responsibility form these changes. I had that message in the original video-but it was just to loooong :)
Marcel Febin kind of, but that doesn’t stop people from dragging you into court. Process costs time and money regardless. Just because you will win a case, doesn’t mean it won’t mess with your pockets, time and reputation. I think every situation has to be handled weighing the pros and cons. I think Stanley is doing ok. Plus the customer backed him into a corner when he had the job completed per original contract.
it's easy to say, "I wouldn't have fixed the bad decision the customer made," but this speaks to your character and I think you did the right thing for yourself and for the business!
, I would have wanted 3 retaining walls, one at the top, one midway and one at the bottom, this would have created 3 level areas instead of that steep slope. then get creative with the 3 level areas as far as plants, grass, boulders, etc.
roy hoco that would "look" good but each reataining wall has to start from the same bottom level so you would have 3 separate retaining walls when 1 would be sufficient. 1ft thick wall with a 4foot wide base footing on load side and 2 foot wide base footing on opposite side of that and have it 3ft deep at least into undisturbed soil. having 3 separate would cost too much and not really work. 1 wall and lots of drainage systems all bleeding through retaining wall would be best. with all the water draining it won't pull the dirt and grass with it and the slope would remain intact.
What I like about this advice is that it universally fits multiple professions. Say "NO" to customers when they are just digging their own graves. I work as free lance software developper and I had to learn this by paintfull (=expensive) way. Whenever custommer comes with late time project change, it is higly probable, that it is just momentary idea. That "I would really like to.." stuff. It is right moment to stop, sit down and speak. Analyze and reconsider what was already done and what are consequences of this late change. But you know... there are those kinds of customers, who just know everything better than you :) Still thanks for this advice!
The last statement was a good one 😂😂😂. But lesson learned! I have ran into situations like these but the impact on the lose for us is small. I think I need to approach these changes very seriously before too late. I think 2 weeks worth of labor and machinery is too big for my company to effort right now. Thank you for putting up these experience videos, it does help us as small contractors a lot! good job.
".... I messed up on getting the change orders in writing and also making my customer release me of any responsibility form these changes..." Yup, bet you don't make that mistake again. Thanks for sharing your experience at this job site...
Thanks for sharing this, great video ! My experience as a designer in many different elements of work, and self-employed for over 40yrs. I'm sure you now know more about the values of your written contracts. A very simple clause stating all changes most be approved and all balances must be paid in full before any changes can be made etc... Even a licensed engineer makes mistakes but take a look at their contracts, read them and you will get a better picture on your position in every contract written and signed. Drawings are critical to show what can and can't be done. Everyone is lucky the house didn't come down the hill. Great channel and keep up the honest and good work !!!
We say One word more often than not.....No. Lol. As professionals we need to know what does and doesn't work in the best interest for the outcome of the job and if you had the initial proposal in a contract and the majority of the job was done you most definitely had the legal right to refuse the change order. If the customer didn't like it, you bring them to legal claims if necessary. I know in our industry it's very hard to have an unhappy customer but....if you are certain they are making changes that will ultimately cost you and them more money AND do serious damage on top of that....The Answer should've been no. But, I'm sure you already know this. Lol. Hey, it happens. Live and learn brother. 👍🏼
Your 100% right for BOTH sides, the contractor and the the customer. That's way like you have mentioned in other videos to have everything in writing of the scope of work, then you can go back to figure out a plan on the next step...
should have benched it in and built it the correct way and with clay not topsoil. Still with the changed slope it would have washed a bit. probably piping the downspouts and a couple field tile would have prevented this too. think I would have finished the original job and demanded payment.
you never use topsoil for fill. i would have fill it with clay because you are going to get the best compaction from clay. topsoil will never fully compact
Thanks for sharing your experience. Mistakes are expensive and it's easy for older guys like me to be smart. If I'm honest, in my early years, doing various project work on farms in the UK, I didn't charge nearly enough. I did loads of work but was permanently skint (no money). Subsequently I've leaned a very useful mantra "Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity"
on my largest change I had a hotel to brick up in Rockville M.D. 40000 bricks in and G.C. says "omg these are the wrong bricks " that's about 7 bricklayers@ 22$ hr and 4 to 5 labors@ 14$ hr and about 200 gal. of diesel, shit load of mortar, 30 tons sand. 2 week's later after problem was finally fixed one of the head honchos says "why is it taking so long on this job " I was no good.
This guy is such an inspiration man. The quality and the craftsmen of this man is absolutely amazing. Customer service of this man is unmatched. I truly wish I was in the area. I know I would be amazed and worried free if him and his crew were to do a job for me. This man has so much charisma and passion about his work, truly rare. Hopefully I can meet you one day, big fan!
How does 63 different paint changes sound and all of they were just in the lobby and throughout the Corredor‘s in 3 difference buldings one and they were already painted multiple times then the owners start asking why everything this flashing crazy so happy to be done with that place
Parking lot in woodbury being milled out.. didnt have soil / core samples pulled before hand, it went from a 2 inch mill and overlay to a full tear out, subcut / haul out, establish bridging over clay for structure, pave.... it was nasty and it was near end of the season. Definitely a very educating moment.
I totally agree with you, you went with a change knowing a rain storm will cause problems. Now with chimney drains and boulders should have been included in the first change. Thanks for sharing, you saved us all from a problem like this.
Well-Hopefully.... The best solution would have been to just go back to the original slope I proposed. I really don't like all this other stuff to compensate.
As soon as you said something about a slope change I was expecting you to add it up with a retaining wall....but you didn't. That's where I lost the respect, a landscaping contractor should now, if they want a change fine...but it comes with costs, it wasn't in the original plans
Smart man Stanley smart man. Instead of telling him to screw off and take your equipment and leave you stayed and made sure it worked. Of course you have to be very direct with them of what will work and what won't work.
I had a lady I did an addition on her house go to home depot with me,pick a paint she liked,she had mixed, she bought. I painted inside, next day she said she didn't like so I told her I would have to charge 300$ to repaint. still waiting for that 300$ been about 3 4 years
Josh Hernandez after a couple of months of waiting, you should have painted the outside of her house mint green, Pepto Bismol pink and some dark shade of ugly yellow. And if possible do it with spray cans 😁
I am an long range network engineering field and when I see if costumer is making changes that can go south, then I make them sigh a summary there is says what may happen if that is done and what are the oitcomes may be and t if that outcome will happen then corrections are comming out of costumers pocket. simple as that. btw I only had 1 costumer sigh it and then pay for corrections others when thay see the paper usialy say "lets go with original plan, it was better "
How can a contractor allow a customer to tell him what he is going to do. Shows weakness on your part as a person. And a professional contractor. Shows lack of confidence in yourself and your company. Keep steppin.
declan duffy you forget the contractor is working for the customer. The customer is the on that is paying the bill in the end so in a sense you kinda do half to listen to what the customer wants done or you won't be in business very long.
Keyway at toe of slope , compacted fill by sheepsfoot in one foot lifts all the way up would be another way of completing the 40 degree slope successfully.
Love the finished project. I agree with Ron Hart below and am so glad to have seen this video on the customer's ignorance especially since they do not have the experience in this trade. BTW, the 40% grade was super steep- you were right to begin with.
Damn. I've watched Judge Judy forever, and when they started making a change, a new contract should have been written, and all your concerns highlighted, so when the inevitable happened, he would have known what he was up for. It sucks, and especially if he was having thoughts of shafting you on the job, but in the long run it probably cost you more, losing 2 weeks of paid work. Honestly though, if you felt that strongly about the redesign being a disaster, you shouldn't have done it. Up to that point, you would have had a contract, a blueprint of your design, plus lots of photos and you were home and clear.
aguyandhiscomputer - I think he means "natural gas to a water faucet" As in "something against code or which you know to be highly inadvisable or unsafe."
It wasn't built with Topsoil-it was remediated with clay after the changes were made but the vegetation didn't have time to establish and hold the slope.
Good job. You knew you were right and he was wrong, but you understood how easily one customer can mess up your business for years. It's sad, but clients will use you and toss you aside, just like contractors. I've learned, even with friends and family, get anything major written and signed. Not an easy task, but necessary in this day and age.
How in the hell are you going to compact that much dirt and still expect it to work with out a retaining system?..............rows and rows of silt fencing? The customer failed to grow any grass!!!
Sorry but even if you compacted the ground ever 4 inches when putting in the fill dirt it would have still washed out because there was no established growth there. look at a lot of the land slides that happen, they have old growth there and they still wash out because of water saturation build up in a short period of time.
I also think compaction would have greatly reduced the chances of such a catastrophic failure. I'm aware of slopes at that kind of grade that are much, much taller, that as of right now have only small young plants on them with mulch, and they have zero erosion issues after some heavy rains we've had. This job was a compaction problem, not a vegetation or grade slope problem.
Kenny Rodger 9inchs of rain in a couple days is alotta rain I don't think it woulda made a difference maybe years of compacting would be good but you still would prob. have a slide
One thing I have learned in the 10yrs I’ve been in the construction industry, the customer is rarely ever right. Hard for a lot of people to swallow, but it’s true, you are the expert, if you know something is wrong, just say no
Unreal how the customer was told your idea is not feasible..then moves forward and you and you crew have to bail them out. They've got you bc they can start a word of mouth sh*t storm. You did the right thing no matter what and that's the mark of a good person and a great company.
The more money they have. the more of a fruitcake they are. (sometimes). I had a change order last year,and I pulled up out of the job. She had already paid for the work performed, and she wanted additional at cost and I declined. Plus she had me talking to her family members and they were putting in advise and telling me how it should be done, etc. My Spidey sense told me to get out of there, and I did.
Wow what a disaster. So sorry for you man. We recently spoke of my driveway. After they started work I made some very small changes. It turned out the driveway sq footage was going to increase by about 24 sq feet. Now I was more than willing to pay for the difference. No one forwarded those changes to the crew that came on the third day to lay the asphalt and at the end they were 24 sq feet short. Yeah lack of communication. Now they did come the very next morning and fill in the area and the seam although visible is not detectable by hand. You can NOT feel the seam between the two areas. In the end I wasn't really happy about the patch, but I know that it was a mistake on both sides and part from that the job is awesome. I can't praise these guys enough for how fast and professional like they did the job. I will use them again for my front patio. -John
You should have had the original plan agreed to on the invoice because you knew damn well that the new grade the customer wanted would not hold together. When they told you to put a steeper pitch that you were not comfortable with and threatened to not pay till you done it, you should have said "cya, will cya in court". Now by going against your better judgement, it's costing you dearly.
The only way that i have seen steep grades hold together is by using atleast a 85% clay fill for the pitch and then apply atleast two or three layers of that expensive peat moss lined netting and even then it's got to be done atleast 4 months before rain season so that the root system can get established. The customer of that property is an idiot, there's no way that they could mow at that pitch. A retaining wall (atleast 4 ft tall and 3 ft wide) made of uncrushed chunks of concrete would have been our method of choice giving the customer the lowest price,most stable means to fit their needs and if they wanted otherwise, we would have to decline the job and let a smaller contractor do the job. You already know how much of a hit a job like that can cost, it's bad enough our rates are bare minimum as it is to compete, you can't afford any losses. Not to mention when the job turns into a disaster, no matter if you make it right, the customers and neighbors will talk and that's bad on your reputation. Good luck.
My husband and I do small Landscaping jobs too and had something kinda like this come up, but the customer never told us that we would be working on a flood plane. We keep recordings of our conversations or some kind of document that we can go back on. Take photos of progress everyday or short video of what’s all been done at the worksite. Contracts are a big thing like everyone else is saying too. Customers should listen to what “us the workers” have to say about different changes, cause even I’m new to this kind of work. There are LOTS of different factors to put into play rather it being the soil that the land has to the weather patters to what should hold up to those factors.
Personally you as the contractor should have eaten it. Why? You built it out of topsoil, no rock, even your original slope should have rock in it. I didn't see anything compacting the material? Your tracks on your mini ex don't compact material. Obviously you didn't have a soil compaction test cause with all that topsoil it would have failed the test. Guess you had to eat it to save your reputation, that does make sense.
mark schiavone I guess you didn't pay attention to the part where the customer was gonna withdrawal completely if he didn't make the changes and then the job would have been a total loss to the contractor
Mikey L... that's a cop out answer. in this business like all construction there are safety concerns. he's lucky no one got hurt. you don't put people and property at risk because the customer doesn't want to pay to do it correctly....
I would fine you for doing this if I was an inspector of the area and probably would inspect your history jobs to see if you messed somewhere else also. Huge hug for posting this video bro
Stan, I am so sorry there are customers in the world like that. He is literally blaming you for his ignorance. I love watching your videos. I run into the same thing in the world of computers. My customers always get mixed up between a television and a computer monitor. Televisions have remote controls, computer monitors don't. However, with the right adapter you can connect anything to a computer.
I wouldn't have gone back to repair the bank without upfront money from the home owner. It was his idea and it didn't work. You advised him it wouldn't work, he threaten not to pay unless you made the changes and it failed how ever long it was. Now he wants you to come back and fix his idea that failed. Well mister home owner,here's a new contract and this is what it's going to cost and payable upfront. Now on the other hand,if the original plan had been kept to and the bank failed,then the home owner would and should have expected you to come back and fix it at your expense. But since this wasn't the case, the home owner is responsible for all repairs. Hopefully you got paid for the original job before the bank collapsed.
This is where I try to tell people and they think I'm being crazy I am not religious nor do I wish to preach I simply wish that if we could simply treat everybody with respect and come to an agreement before decisions are made and if possible problems are going to arise let it be spoken of unaware of like you said it in your previous videos you're very polite and courteous. I wish to do business with you and I wish more customers treated you with more respect but like in any business and you're dealing with customers you're doing their job and that's not to say that they are right it's to say that that's what they want and you say these are the problems I see that are going to arise and you said this and previous videos so I respect that you're coming back out and asking for feedback that shows great respect and appreciation for yourself customers and your viewers thank you for posting and keep doing so
It took me a while to learn this, but "not all money is good money." I had a client that couldn't make up her mind about where to plant certain plants, which plants she wanted. One week she would love some the next she would want something else there. After a few too many trips to the nursery I told her I would not change anything from the original design without adequate compensation. I told her no which was something she wasn't used to hearing. We're good friends now and she often times says to me Hey Cameron, for adequate compensation can you do x, y, or z job for me? It's also okay to decline any work that you think is going to be too much of a liability explaining to the client I don't think that I'm going to be able to make you happy with this project for this budget.
every once in a while we get a change order in the middle of refinishing a floor that they want to stain instead of natural. most people expect this to not cost any more than the original job but they also expect it to take the same time and sometimes we have to remand the floor because we seal coated it already. its not terrible if they pay what we ask but man some times it just sucks
You did the right thing in a crappy situation. If this was a small company this might of not been an option. Seems like a lesson was learned on your part but the customer got lucky you were willing to fix it at cost.
I'm electrical contractor in Los Angeles generally I put change orders in the contract any change order that's over $1,000 have to be approved by the owner and myself. Especially if the job is almost complete or completed. Change orders or three times as much to do that would discourage any changes. As long as the customer know that change order cost extra to do. That will discourage them I'm changing their mind. But at the end is the customer rights to change anything they want.
About two years ago, a young couple bought a parcel of property on a point on a lake. Everything was needed. They put a doublewide manufactured on 5 feet of blocks. I hauled sand for 7-8 weeks to build it up. Another contractor had the dirt contract, but was getting from our company because we were two miles away. They wanted a double garage. They changed their mind 3 times on that contractor. Full, 2 layer 2x10 and 2x12 beams were cut and dumped in the dumpster. Once the house, garage and sand were done, time came for the screened black dirt. For those that aren't aware (I wasn't), there is virgin black dirt and there's...nonvirgin black dirt. By virgin black dirt, I mean that it hasn't been trashed by human litter. Plastic, metal, glass, tires, garbage, etc. Think, cow pastures, forests, or open fields. It's very rare to get virgin black dirt to screen. Typically, black dirt is stripped from a construction site and hauled from that site to another site, excavating company or temporary holding area. Excavating companies that have screen plants will screen it. Anything and just about everything can be in non virgin dirt. It has to go from the job work site asap. No time to pick stuff out. The screen plant takes out the rocks, weeds (99.4%), plastics, wood chunks, roots, cans, tires, chains, tools, toys, twine, rope, frisbees, and other assorted chunks, over a certain size. It is IMPOSSIBLE to take seeds out of black dirt. Impossible. It's also impossible to get every contaminate out of the dirt. Small chunks of plastic, wire, staples, nails and glass still get through. These pieces fit through the screen. I hauled another 3 days of screened black dirt to this new construction site. The dirt contractor and crew were spreading it out as I brought it. Bobcat, rakes and shovels. About a week later, the owner calls our company, SCREAMING over the phone that he wants us to either give him a discount, or come and get the dirt. He saw something reflecting light and discovered a small piece of glass. He then started raking and found four more pieces. It was a very heated discussion. In the end, the dirt contractor took it in the shorts, as he, my boss and the owner had a semi civil meeting. The dirt contractor bought the dirt from us and sold it to the homeowner. He and his crew DID in fact pick contaminates while raking it smooth and seeding it. As rain had come, the dirt settled and exposed pieces that weren't previously seen. Between the garage changes and the dirt tantrum, that homeowner cost 2 different contractors a week and a half of work, with no pay. In my experience, these customers are not only unaware of other people's jobs, duties and lives, but they really and truly don't care. Try explaining something slow and in laymen terms, they get twice as pissed, thinking you're talking down to them. In a way, we are, but not in a demeaning manner or way. I couldn't run a bank. They'd talk down to me all day. But they don't know crap about the excavating and dirt business. So I wondered if these people owned banks, or if they blow up on bankers when they don't get exactly what they want. I bet they don't tip wait staff either. There's more to dirt and earth material than the average person cares to think. Let contractors do their jobs. They're human. Mistakes can happen on both sides. But the name, blame, shame game solves nothing.
Outside of a hell of a tarp, not sure this much new topsoil would've held in place getting 9" of rain. Unless it's a small change, and I mean small, I generally charge 7%-10% of the total project cost for a change order. Exceptions being if an aspect of the project throws a big curve, planned materials don't work or cannot be delivered, or some facet of the prep work reveals hidden problems. Then I can usually work out a decent compromise that maybe costs me a bit, costs them a bit, but is a reasonable compromise. I'm with you on your decision, you had to roll with the change, and I'd rather get hurt some than have a bargeload of bad PR out there.
Reel Chaos Charters, home owners want things done as cheaply as possible. Unless he marks all of his stuff up by 50%, he ate it on this one. If a home owner wants something changed, weather you agree on it or not, you get it in writing.
It's your fault, not the customers fault. The customer has zero responsibility to know how this works. To say the customer didn't grow plants fast enough is a petty excuse. YOU are responsible to either make the slope stable enough or deny the contract. There are more than enough ways to make this slope stable - you used NON of them.
Olivio Sarikas extended gutters with 4' corrugated pipes running beneath the ground to the bottom would have saved them the gutters off the house must've turned that slope into a waterfall
He told the guy it was a bad idea. They had it done the right way, and the dude insisted doing it the wrong way. This reminds me of that Step-Brothers movie where they are grown men and run into their parent's room asking if they can build bunk beds. The parents are like...well, I guess. It's dumb, but you are grown men. They proceed to do it and the beds fall on them injuring them. They then run back to the parents room and yell " WHY DID YOU LET US DO THAT!? IT WAS A TERRIBLE IDEA!!!"
If I had had to do the job that I was unhappy about, I would have written an extra agreement, laying out all of my objections and reservations, stating why it was a bad idea, but that as long as the client was happy to sign that he *still* wanted to go ahead with the work, that I would do it. That way you both have a signed agreement clearly laying out who was responsible if something like this happened.
An extra agreement doesn't help you much, when you know it will fail for sure. It might help you for legal matters, but your name and brand will be damaged regardless and of course the judge will ask you why you did something when you even pointed out in a legal document that it can not work. As a professional you are the one who should have known better and protected the customer. Meaning the judge could possibly still decide against you. But the bigger damage is to your brand and to the time wasted on all of that. You might be years in court. Long story short: if you know it's a bad idea, don't do it. It's not worth it.
I was a CM for a large company in Bay Area, CA. I was dealing with Bond Measures and Junior College professors. We had 280 million bond with addition 50 Million. Parking lots was one of the phase 1 projects to get underway to give more parking to students while the new buildings and construction was happening. All of sudden added a solar project to a master plan after we were in 50% CD docs on parking lot. This happened behind the our backs with Chervon and school district. The redesign cost more than the whole parking lots were going to be. The Solar project never came close to making the power they said. Lucky two of the new building were already spec for future solar installation. Chevron on to install more panels on them. One of the things I remember signing off was for 25k for computer and huge monitor to show in the library in the solar production. They never showed it because it was so way under the number it was supposed to produce. Over all with resign, COs, and delays. A 7.5 million parking lot turned into 16 million, plus another 12 million for solar. My company could only bill the owner 40 hours a week for each of use. Trust me we work a lot more then that. It also effected the two other buildings.
love the last line. Honestly I have made similar mistakes. Now everything is in writing. For such a huge project I would have a notorized contract outlining the risks of said change and stating that you are not responsible. Your a good man for fixing that. Wow some customers are 50 shades of stupid.
First big job I had that wasn't a referral or family or friend. I got a hit on my Angies List from a general contractor wanting to install a misting system. I scouted the location gave them the requirements and was able to design a world class system that met their budget and within their ridiculous time frame by working through a logistics nightmare. I wrote up an extremely detailed proposal that included the time frame for the project, the specific parts being used, the method of installation including what fasteners would be used, the location of pumps and what I needed in terms of a water source and power. I also included a clause for change orders and that any design changes would be billed at $100/hr. Well I installed the system very short order and worked out a few kinks (had to add some fasteners because the tubing was creeping out of the fittings). When it was time to get paid the owner of the establishment suddenly had a problem with the location of the misters. I had a meeting with him and two representatives from the general contractor to try and explain why the placement was best. Before the owner got there they tried to big time me and said that he wasn't happy with it and frankly neither were they it didn't make any sense to them why I put them where they were. It was then that I reminded them of the change order clause and they asked how long it would take for me to move it. I told them 20 hours at $100/hr. Oh man, they switched real quick to help me sell the customer on the placement of the misters. Ha ha. Gotta put that change order clause in your contracts. In your situation since cost of removing the materials is so much I would have said once materials are delivered if the customer cancels the project they will cover the cost of labor to remove the materials and return the grade to an approximation of what it was before. Change orders should be documented and signed by the customer and any changes to the design that are against the contractors professional opinion of best practices the customer assumes 100% liability including any damages to other people's property from these design changes. Guarantee this guy was trying to make things difficult for you in order to make you give up and abandon the job. He knew he could mess with you because you didn't have an air tight contract.
I worked with someone who had this issue on a house that he wanted to make changes all the time at the end of the job. the superintendent told him it would be $500 for everyone change he made plus the time, effort and the cost of the material it took to do the work. Then he had to sign the contract for every time he made the changes. This protocol helps protect against things like this and you have a paper trail.
I had a similar situation in north salt lake. The developer did not want to pay to repair the slope the right way and we got alot of rain and it slid off of the hill and knocked a house and tennis court off of their foundations. luckily nobody was hurt.
I think you should have just built the retaining wall from the start, put up a fence around the top, and given him a bigger back yard. That's really what he was after even though he didn't have the budget for it. You could have said you will do that between your gravy jobs to keep clients costs low, your guys working and so as to not loose opportunity costs of other jobs.
With you brother. Been there done that when they don't wanna listen to sound advice then blame you for their bad decisions. I learned to scale my payments due in a one third bases with a ten percent down. So I'm leveraged well enough toward the end to be able to walk away with out being hurt to much if they go off the rails. That last check used to be the hardest to get even when everything is perfect.
Great post! I have a book I call my little bible with notes from jobs gone off the tracks and where I thought the tracks were switched and it has lead me to my "Rules from the Bible". This is right up there with a couple of them. Sometimes you just have to say no. Keep those those change orders handy and hefty. Way to stick it through though.
Sign a contract. Sign a contract. Sign a contract. Put the risk in writing and make the customer assume the responsibility. You all knew this was wrong, because you filmed yourselves saying that during construction. If the customer threatens to pull the plug on payment... go to court. Small Claims Court is very reasonable. And your written contract will save you.
I did miss having him sign off on the responsibility. that was a big mistake.
I know you won't do that again...
Sometimes when you are really busy, working all the time, you can get lax on the paperwork and do handshake deals.
I'm sure this will just give him more business
Small claims court, don't waste your time !!!
I run a larger paving business in the northern part of Canada. Something most clients don't understand is that material inevitably freezes and moves. Having silt sand as a base is no good, one customer insisted on it staying so I had him write off his warranty because he didn't want to spend the extra money for new material when there is "perfectly good material" present. After that winter, the following season I get a phone call from him asking to take a look at it. Our asphalt cracked and he wanted me to warranty it. Long story short, a few meetings, lawyer meetings, settlement. He lost and I won all because I had him sign off on the work specifically for that reason. Our lawyer said that if anything, always get specific sign off on parts of the job that may cause future issues if the customer doesn't want to pay for a fix. Can't stress it enough.
Good advice
In the commercial construction world we call these specific sign offs "submittals."
I’m a landscaper and I’ve been watching your RUclips videos along time and you’ve help me a lot and I finally got my first bobcat skid steer and I love it and it takes me less time less stress and more money I went from mowing yards and doing flower beds on average by myself making $500 a day to almost $1200 and I can wait to make more and I’ve learned a lot from you thanks buddy keep them up
As a science teacher, I have been using this video for years to teach about erosion and erosion control techniques student can use on their final project for our erosion unit. Thanks for the great content!
You're a good guy, and that is not always in YOUR BEST INTEREST.
I should have gotten it in writing that I wouldn't be responsible if it failed.
Ink is cheap
I swear that is the story of my life.
Way to own up to a higher standard. Probably lesson learned is to communicate the risks to the client better and make them sign off on it if they force a change on you
As a concrete guy who works in the construction field . I respect Stanley and his attitude. Great job working with your guys and valuing their opinions
Thanks man really appreciate it
I put everything in writing, once the contract has been written anything new will have an addendum added in. In this case I would have wrote in the contract the issues that can come about and that it is solely recommended by the client. And NEVER do a job that size for free. Your company is established your work speaks for itself. I understand protecting the brand but your in business to make money. Not lose or break even. When these things happen to me, I pull up the contract and say those 4 words. "I told you so"
Love that last line- I told you so haha
This says it all for me. ALL.
So how good looking was she??? DON'T BE AN IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!
jamaredward l
We all love that last line...it never gets old saying it, either.
It's unfortunate that all business men cannot be as honest and full of Integrity as this guy is.. he deserves an award!
Thanks for sharing and being honest. I really enjoy your channel! This looks like something a lot of us has faced over the years. I am really glad that you are willing to put it out there and take a step back and look at both sides. Really impressive!
I don’t have a story but full marks to you for the repair. It looks really good. Bravo.
Thanks Mark!
Thank you for posting this video. Contractual writing could have prevented this and I appreciate you helping us fellow construction/landscaping entrepreneurs learn from this experience.
I hope it helps others out. Thank you!
i am a retired attorney in Pittsburgh, PA and did general Civil Litigation and some other legal practice areas for some 28 years. one of the things i did a lot was to sit as a "Judge" with two other Attorneys in the "small claims" Court at the Pittsburgh Court House. this forum had jurisdiction up to $25k and heard primarily landlord/tenant disputes and homeowner/contractor disputes. i probably sat on more than 300 contractor suits. one single "pattern" occurred OVER AND OVER again with the contractor suits: the home owner "thought" he was "getting" one kind of project and the contractor "thought" he was "providing" another type of project. the critical advice i always gave the losing litigant - and private clients who came into my office - was to make sure the homeowner and contractor go over EVERY DETAIL of the project AND the EXACT materials to be used. BOTH parties MUST understand what is to be done and the materials to be used. once the "overall" agreement is settled upon, EVER DETAIL MUST be reduced to writing. the writing then MUST say it includes the ENTIRE project and that NO CHANGES IN ANY DETAIL shall occur without a written agreement signed by both parties. as to changes, it should be clear that any changes MAY or WILL result in an increase in costs for the project. given that the Pittsburgh climate can go through about a 100 degree swing in a year, additional advice included the fact that every written contract should have a SPECIFIC discussion on how the weather "could" affect the completion of the project or the "longevity" of the project/improvements. any "warranty" to the work and/or materials should be SPELLED OUT in the contract. after years of representing either homeowners suing contractors or defending contractors against homeowner lawsuits, the bottom line is - YOU CANNOT PUT TOO MUCH INFORMATION IN A WRITTEN CONSTRUCTION CONTRACT! NO contractor should operate in this "litigious society" without retaining an attorney who can review and/or WRITE project contracts for the contractor.
Seems to me It would have just had to go to court. If I knew the change order would not work or was unsafe I would have not done it. Just think if that road was not there. You could have had A LOT more damage done to the neighbors. I am surprised that you would do this job with your experience. Do you not use written contracts ? I would have had the exchange order in writing explaining your concern and would have walked away and took it to court. The law would have been on your side as a professional contractor. Your work is your reputation. No one will see "He said, She said" they will just see your work and what company did it. I have a story to back my statement but it would take a page to tell it. Most of the time if your right. Your right and will be took care of. JMO. I am not being disrespectful. Love your videos. Thanks for sharing. God bless
Your right- part of what had to be edited to make this an 8 minute video instead of 28 minutes was the fact that I messed up on getting the change orders in writing and also making my customer release me of any responsibility form these changes. I had that message in the original video-but it was just to loooong :)
mark schiavone You sound like you need a hug. You okay man?
That just sucks ass. Make sure it's in writing. That's your only protection.
Marcel Febin kind of, but that doesn’t stop people from dragging you into court. Process costs time and money regardless. Just because you will win a case, doesn’t mean it won’t mess with your pockets, time and reputation. I think every situation has to be handled weighing the pros and cons. I think Stanley is doing ok. Plus the customer backed him into a corner when he had the job completed per original contract.
it's easy to say, "I wouldn't have fixed the bad decision the customer made," but this speaks to your character and I think you did the right thing for yourself and for the business!
Thanks Wade!
, I would have wanted 3 retaining walls, one at the top, one midway and one at the bottom, this would have created 3 level areas instead of that steep slope. then get creative with the 3 level areas as far as plants, grass, boulders, etc.
That would have been a cool design.
roy hoco that would "look" good but each reataining wall has to start from the same bottom level so you would have 3 separate retaining walls when 1 would be sufficient. 1ft thick wall with a 4foot wide base footing on load side and 2 foot wide base footing on opposite side of that and have it 3ft deep at least into undisturbed soil. having 3 separate would cost too much and not really work. 1 wall and lots of drainage systems all bleeding through retaining wall would be best. with all the water draining it won't pull the dirt and grass with it and the slope would remain intact.
Don't think anybody want to pay for 3 retaining walls🤔
I've seen a house with 3 walls I've mulched it for years I'll try to get a picture of it even though it's bad since new owners don't keep up with it
i would want one huge one using huge limestone blocks lol
What I like about this advice is that it universally fits multiple professions. Say "NO" to customers when they are just digging their own graves. I work as free lance software developper and I had to learn this by paintfull (=expensive) way. Whenever custommer comes with late time project change, it is higly probable, that it is just momentary idea. That "I would really like to.." stuff. It is right moment to stop, sit down and speak. Analyze and reconsider what was already done and what are consequences of this late change. But you know... there are those kinds of customers, who just know everything better than you :) Still thanks for this advice!
Should have been done at the start!!!And alot more stone..
well tooo bad we didn’t they didn’t
That skid steer moving that mud is unbelievabley satisfiying
Side note.. Try to sniff out customers that will be "Difficult" and pass on the job some how.
The last statement was a good one 😂😂😂. But lesson learned! I have ran into situations like these but the impact on the lose for us is small. I think I need to approach these changes very seriously before too late. I think 2 weeks worth of labor and machinery is too big for my company to effort right now. Thank you for putting up these experience videos, it does help us as small contractors a lot! good job.
Luckily you got it fixed. But that type of customer is the worst. When they try to place the blame on someone else.
Stanley, you are obviously a good man and honest man. I can't believe what happened. Some people are toe rags. Keep the faith mate
".... I messed up on getting the change orders in writing and also making my customer release me of any responsibility form these changes..." Yup, bet you don't make that mistake again. Thanks for sharing your experience at this job site...
Thanks for sharing this, great video ! My experience as a designer in many different elements of work, and self-employed for over 40yrs. I'm sure you now know more about the values of your written contracts. A very simple clause stating all changes most be approved and all balances must be paid in full before any changes can be made etc... Even a licensed engineer makes mistakes but take a look at their contracts, read them and you will get a better picture on your position in every contract written and signed. Drawings are critical to show what can and can't be done. Everyone is lucky the house didn't come down the hill. Great channel and keep up the honest and good work !!!
Thanks Wauhya- Great advice by the way- your totally right!
We say One word more often than not.....No. Lol. As professionals we need to know what does and doesn't work in the best interest for the outcome of the job and if you had the initial proposal in a contract and the majority of the job was done you most definitely had the legal right to refuse the change order. If the customer didn't like it, you bring them to legal claims if necessary. I know in our industry it's very hard to have an unhappy customer but....if you are certain they are making changes that will ultimately cost you and them more money AND do serious damage on top of that....The Answer should've been no. But, I'm sure you already know this. Lol. Hey, it happens. Live and learn brother. 👍🏼
David Cardone hell that right there could've gotten someone killed.
Your 100% right for BOTH sides, the contractor and the the customer. That's way like you have mentioned in other videos to have everything in writing of the scope of work, then you can go back to figure out a plan on the next step...
Thank you Charles
should have benched it in and built it the correct way and with clay not topsoil. Still with the changed slope it would have washed a bit. probably piping the downspouts and a couple field tile would have prevented this too. think I would have finished the original job and demanded payment.
Ryan B clay would be too slippery during maintenance, that's why you use rocky soil like mountains, mimic nature and you will be alright
you never use topsoil for fill. i would have fill it with clay because you are going to get the best compaction from clay. topsoil will never fully compact
Thanks for sharing your experience. Mistakes are expensive and it's easy for older guys like me to be smart.
If I'm honest, in my early years, doing various project work on farms in the UK, I didn't charge nearly enough.
I did loads of work but was permanently skint (no money).
Subsequently I've leaned a very useful mantra "Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity"
on my largest change I had a hotel to brick up in Rockville M.D. 40000 bricks in and G.C. says "omg these are the wrong bricks " that's about 7 bricklayers@ 22$ hr and 4 to 5 labors@ 14$ hr and about 200 gal. of diesel, shit load of mortar, 30 tons sand. 2 week's later after problem was finally fixed one of the head honchos says "why is it taking so long on this job " I was no good.
holy crap- thats a nightmare situation.
Josh Hernandez zfggggzfgggvf
This guy is such an inspiration man. The quality and the craftsmen of this man is absolutely amazing. Customer service of this man is unmatched. I truly wish I was in the area. I know I would be amazed and worried free if him and his crew were to do a job for me. This man has so much charisma and passion about his work, truly rare. Hopefully I can meet you one day, big fan!
Thanks Keo! Appreciate that!
How does 63 different paint changes sound and all of they were just in the lobby and throughout the Corredor‘s in 3 difference buldings one and they were already painted multiple times then the owners start asking why everything this flashing crazy so happy to be done with that place
Damn man good for you. 24 years young and I have worked 4 years landscaping. Glad to see how u carry your business
Much respect for stranding by your work
Parking lot in woodbury being milled out.. didnt have soil / core samples pulled before hand, it went from a 2 inch mill and overlay to a full tear out, subcut / haul out, establish bridging over clay for structure, pave.... it was nasty and it was near end of the season. Definitely a very educating moment.
you must put an sub-base backfilling materials,and compact it by a soil compactor
Yes! Your right
I totally agree with you, you went with a change knowing a rain storm will cause problems. Now with chimney drains and boulders should have been included in the first change. Thanks for sharing, you saved us all from a problem like this.
Well-Hopefully.... The best solution would have been to just go back to the original slope I proposed. I really don't like all this other stuff to compensate.
As soon as you said something about a slope change I was expecting you to add it up with a retaining wall....but you didn't. That's where I lost the respect, a landscaping contractor should now, if they want a change fine...but it comes with costs, it wasn't in the original plans
He was warned about the change- but neither he nor I ever guessed 9 inches of rain would hit before the vegetation could establish.
Smart man Stanley smart man. Instead of telling him to screw off and take your equipment and leave you stayed and made sure it worked. Of course you have to be very direct with them of what will work and what won't work.
I had a lady I did an addition on her house go to home depot with me,pick a paint she liked,she had mixed, she bought. I painted inside, next day she said she didn't like so I told her I would have to charge 300$ to repaint. still waiting for that 300$ been about 3 4 years
That is a terrible customer.
Need it all in writing, then mechanic's lien...
Josh Hernandez after a couple of months of waiting, you should have painted the outside of her house mint green, Pepto Bismol pink and some dark shade of ugly yellow. And if possible do it with spray cans 😁
Love your honesty as we all make mistakes.....enjoying this channel.
I am an long range network engineering field and when I see if costumer is making changes that can go south, then I make them sigh a summary there is says what may happen if that is done and what are the oitcomes may be and t
if that outcome will happen then corrections are comming out of costumers pocket. simple as that. btw I only had 1 costumer sigh it and then pay for corrections others when thay see the paper usialy say "lets go with original plan, it was better "
Only one person signed it because no one else could read it. Your English is awful.
Costumers??? Lmao
Retardation and more, I bet your second language is slurp slurp slurp urglrurgl.
I want to thank you on behalf of the costomer and his neighbors you are a good guy
How can a contractor allow a customer to tell him what he is going to do. Shows weakness on your part as a person. And a professional contractor. Shows lack of confidence in yourself and your company. Keep steppin.
declan duffy you forget the contractor is working for the customer. The customer is the on that is paying the bill in the end so in a sense you kinda do half to listen to what the customer wants done or you won't be in business very long.
Keyway at toe of slope , compacted fill by sheepsfoot in one foot lifts all the way up would be another way of completing the 40 degree slope successfully.
should of put in a retaining wall but atleast you guys fixed it for him
Love the finished project. I agree with Ron Hart below and am so glad to have seen this video on the customer's ignorance especially since they do not have the experience in this trade. BTW, the 40% grade was super steep- you were right to begin with.
Damn. I've watched Judge Judy forever, and when they started making a change, a new contract should have been written, and all your concerns highlighted, so when the inevitable happened, he would have known what he was up for. It sucks, and especially if he was having thoughts of shafting you on the job, but in the long run it probably cost you more, losing 2 weeks of paid work. Honestly though, if you felt that strongly about the redesign being a disaster, you shouldn't have done it. Up to that point, you would have had a contract, a blueprint of your design, plus lots of photos and you were home and clear.
Very true- I should have never gone through with he redesign without a written change order.
Takes some balls to put this out there on. RUclips. Much respect.
if a customer tells a plumber to pipe gas through a tap, Don't do shit work
Daniel Parsons
pipe gas through a tap?
aguyandhiscomputer - I think he means "natural gas to a water faucet"
As in "something against code or which you know to be highly inadvisable or unsafe."
Live and learn,
You learned and so did the customer.
Another great video 👍
Thank you !
Who chose the soil for that buildup?.
The new soil was remediated with clay
good work fixing the problem and staying cool headed.
There are always challenges as business owners. If its not one thing-its another.
if it was built from structural fill (instead of topsoil), compacted in 1 ft lifts and keyed into original pad the slope wouldt have fell.
It wasn't built with Topsoil-it was remediated with clay after the changes were made but the vegetation didn't have time to establish and hold the slope.
Not to mention that having already built the hill he couldn’t compact in layers at all
Good job. You knew you were right and he was wrong, but you understood how easily one customer can mess up your business for years. It's sad, but clients will use you and toss you aside, just like contractors. I've learned, even with friends and family, get anything major written and signed. Not an easy task, but necessary in this day and age.
Would it not of been better if you compacted that ground as you normally should..!
How in the hell are you going to compact that much dirt and still expect it to work with out a retaining system?..............rows and rows of silt fencing? The customer failed to grow any grass!!!
Sorry but even if you compacted the ground ever 4 inches when putting in the fill dirt it would have still washed out because there was no established growth there. look at a lot of the land slides that happen, they have old growth there and they still wash out because of water saturation build up in a short period of time.
keebler6903 there would have been erosion but not a crazy landslide!
I also think compaction would have greatly reduced the chances of such a catastrophic failure. I'm aware of slopes at that kind of grade that are much, much taller, that as of right now have only small young plants on them with mulch, and they have zero erosion issues after some heavy rains we've had. This job was a compaction problem, not a vegetation or grade slope problem.
Kenny Rodger 9inchs of rain in a couple days is alotta rain I don't think it woulda made a difference maybe years of compacting would be good but you still would prob. have a slide
One thing I have learned in the 10yrs I’ve been in the construction industry, the customer is rarely ever right. Hard for a lot of people to swallow, but it’s true, you are the expert, if you know something is wrong, just say no
Thanks for the comments Justin !
I would've had that customer sign off on a notarized statement warning of such a thing. Then I would've left his ass out to dry.
Unreal how the customer was told your idea is not feasible..then moves forward and you and you crew have to bail them out. They've got you bc they can start a word of mouth sh*t storm. You did the right thing no matter what and that's the mark of a good person and a great company.
The more money they have. the more of a fruitcake they are. (sometimes).
I had a change order last year,and I pulled up out of the job. She had already paid for the work performed, and she wanted additional at cost and I declined. Plus she had me talking to her family members and they were putting in advise and telling me how it should be done, etc. My Spidey sense told me to get out of there, and I did.
+10 thumbs up from getting paid for work performed, +10 more for walking on doing work at cost!
Wow what a disaster. So sorry for you man. We recently spoke of my driveway. After they started work I made some very small changes. It turned out the driveway sq footage was going to increase by about 24 sq feet. Now I was more than willing to pay for the difference. No one forwarded those changes to the crew that came on the third day to lay the asphalt and at the end they were 24 sq feet short. Yeah lack of communication. Now they did come the very next morning and fill in the area and the seam although visible is not detectable by hand. You can NOT feel the seam between the two areas. In the end I wasn't really happy about the patch, but I know that it was a mistake on both sides and part from that the job is awesome. I can't praise these guys enough for how fast and professional like they did the job. I will use them again for my front patio. -John
John, Its good they came back- they didn't make any money by coming back but they kept their word :)
You should have had the original plan agreed to on the invoice because you knew damn well that the new grade the customer wanted would not hold together. When they told you to put a steeper pitch that you were not comfortable with and threatened to not pay till you done it, you should have said "cya, will cya in court". Now by going against your better judgement, it's costing you dearly.
I didn't like the new pitch but I have seen them hold together here in Minnesota. But it wasn't my first choice
The only way that i have seen steep grades hold together is by using atleast a 85% clay fill for the pitch and then apply atleast two or three layers of that expensive peat moss lined netting and even then it's got to be done atleast 4 months before rain season so that the root system can get established. The customer of that property is an idiot, there's no way that they could mow at that pitch. A retaining wall (atleast 4 ft tall and 3 ft wide) made of uncrushed chunks of concrete would have been our method of choice giving the customer the lowest price,most stable means to fit their needs and if they wanted otherwise, we would have to decline the job and let a smaller contractor do the job. You already know how much of a hit a job like that can cost, it's bad enough our rates are bare minimum as it is to compete, you can't afford any losses. Not to mention when the job turns into a disaster, no matter if you make it right, the customers and neighbors will talk and that's bad on your reputation. Good luck.
My husband and I do small Landscaping jobs too and had something kinda like this come up, but the customer never told us that we would be working on a flood plane. We keep recordings of our conversations or some kind of document that we can go back on. Take photos of progress everyday or short video of what’s all been done at the worksite. Contracts are a big thing like everyone else is saying too.
Customers should listen to what “us the workers” have to say about different changes, cause even I’m new to this kind of work. There are LOTS of different factors to put into play rather it being the soil that the land has to the weather patters to what should hold up to those factors.
Thanks for sharing this and for watching Michelle!
Personally you as the contractor should have eaten it. Why? You built it out of topsoil, no rock, even your original slope should have rock in it. I didn't see anything compacting the material? Your tracks on your mini ex don't compact material. Obviously you didn't have a soil compaction test cause with all that topsoil it would have failed the test.
Guess you had to eat it to save your reputation, that does make sense.
When a cheap homeowner wants the job done cheap, you do it cheap.
nope you just dont do it
Thomas Tusing clarifying your proposal and making it clear to the owner with his signature alleviates that issue.
Givadanger he should have said no to the changes. if he couldn't do the change order correctly then he never should have done it.
mark schiavone I guess you didn't pay attention to the part where the customer was gonna withdrawal completely if he didn't make the changes and then the job would have been a total loss to the contractor
Man you a good guy you get more respect for standing by your work it's just messed up no money to be made
should've had drains to begin with
As per usual
Mikey L... that's a cop out answer. in this business like all construction there are safety concerns. he's lucky no one got hurt. you don't put people and property at risk because the customer doesn't want to pay to do it correctly....
I would fine you for doing this if I was an inspector of the area and probably would inspect your history jobs to see if you messed somewhere else also.
Huge hug for posting this video bro
I just realized I watched the video where you met this guy. Guess you regret saving him that $11,000, huh.
Stan, I am so sorry there are customers in the world like that. He is literally blaming you for his ignorance. I love watching your videos. I run into the same thing in the world of computers. My customers always get mixed up between a television and a computer monitor. Televisions have remote controls, computer monitors don't. However, with the right adapter you can connect anything to a computer.
I wouldn't have gone back to repair the bank without upfront money from the home owner. It was his idea and it didn't work. You advised him it wouldn't work, he threaten not to pay unless you made the changes and it failed how ever long it was. Now he wants you to come back and fix his idea that failed. Well mister home owner,here's a new contract and this is what it's going to cost and payable upfront. Now on the other hand,if the original plan had been kept to and the bank failed,then the home owner would and should have expected you to come back and fix it at your expense. But since this wasn't the case, the home owner is responsible for all repairs. Hopefully you got paid for the original job before the bank collapsed.
blueknight. It wasn't in writing. That could've avoided the issue.
This is where I try to tell people and they think I'm being crazy I am not religious nor do I wish to preach I simply wish that if we could simply treat everybody with respect and come to an agreement before decisions are made and if possible problems are going to arise let it be spoken of unaware of like you said it in your previous videos you're very polite and courteous. I wish to do business with you and I wish more customers treated you with more respect but like in any business and you're dealing with customers you're doing their job and that's not to say that they are right it's to say that that's what they want and you say these are the problems I see that are going to arise and you said this and previous videos so I respect that you're coming back out and asking for feedback that shows great respect and appreciation for yourself customers and your viewers thank you for posting and keep doing so
Looks like a headache
It took me a while to learn this, but "not all money is good money." I had a client that couldn't make up her mind about where to plant certain plants, which plants she wanted. One week she would love some the next she would want something else there. After a few too many trips to the nursery I told her I would not change anything from the original design without adequate compensation. I told her no which was something she wasn't used to hearing. We're good friends now and she often times says to me Hey Cameron, for adequate compensation can you do x, y, or z job for me? It's also okay to decline any work that you think is going to be too much of a liability explaining to the client I don't think that I'm going to be able to make you happy with this project for this budget.
Good advice, thanks for viewing !
Great Video! Thanks so much for sharing!
Thank you!
every once in a while we get a change order in the middle of refinishing a floor that they want to stain instead of natural. most people expect this to not cost any more than the original job but they also expect it to take the same time and sometimes we have to remand the floor because we seal coated it already. its not terrible if they pay what we ask but man some times it just sucks
Too bad the whole damn house didn't slide down the hill.
The less problems the better .
You did the right thing in a crappy situation. If this was a small company this might of not been an option. Seems like a lesson was learned on your part but the customer got lucky you were willing to fix it at cost.
contractor didn't know what he was doing!!!
Contractor didn’t know what he is doing if you know its not doing to work don’t do it idiot
I'm electrical contractor in Los Angeles generally I put change orders in the contract any change order that's over $1,000 have to be approved by the owner and myself. Especially if the job is almost complete or completed. Change orders or three times as much to do that would discourage any changes. As long as the customer know that change order cost extra to do. That will discourage them I'm changing their mind. But at the end is the customer rights to change anything they want.
Thanks for the comments Archie, and for watching
If you're not comfortable with a design, you could require an engineers signature. Coulda woulda at this point though. Lesson learned.
True- good point Mark!
About two years ago, a young couple bought a parcel of property on a point on a lake. Everything was needed. They put a doublewide manufactured on 5 feet of blocks. I hauled sand for 7-8 weeks to build it up. Another contractor had the dirt contract, but was getting from our company because we were two miles away. They wanted a double garage. They changed their mind 3 times on that contractor. Full, 2 layer 2x10 and 2x12 beams were cut and dumped in the dumpster. Once the house, garage and sand were done, time came for the screened black dirt. For those that aren't aware (I wasn't), there is virgin black dirt and there's...nonvirgin black dirt. By virgin black dirt, I mean that it hasn't been trashed by human litter. Plastic, metal, glass, tires, garbage, etc. Think, cow pastures, forests, or open fields. It's very rare to get virgin black dirt to screen. Typically, black dirt is stripped from a construction site and hauled from that site to another site, excavating company or temporary holding area. Excavating companies that have screen plants will screen it. Anything and just about everything can be in non virgin dirt. It has to go from the job work site asap. No time to pick stuff out. The screen plant takes out the rocks, weeds (99.4%), plastics, wood chunks, roots, cans, tires, chains, tools, toys, twine, rope, frisbees, and other assorted chunks, over a certain size. It is IMPOSSIBLE to take seeds out of black dirt. Impossible. It's also impossible to get every contaminate out of the dirt. Small chunks of plastic, wire, staples, nails and glass still get through. These pieces fit through the screen. I hauled another 3 days of screened black dirt to this new construction site. The dirt contractor and crew were spreading it out as I brought it. Bobcat, rakes and shovels. About a week later, the owner calls our company, SCREAMING over the phone that he wants us to either give him a discount, or come and get the dirt. He saw something reflecting light and discovered a small piece of glass. He then started raking and found four more pieces. It was a very heated discussion. In the end, the dirt contractor took it in the shorts, as he, my boss and the owner had a semi civil meeting. The dirt contractor bought the dirt from us and sold it to the homeowner. He and his crew DID in fact pick contaminates while raking it smooth and seeding it. As rain had come, the dirt settled and exposed pieces that weren't previously seen. Between the garage changes and the dirt tantrum, that homeowner cost 2 different contractors a week and a half of work, with no pay. In my experience, these customers are not only unaware of other people's jobs, duties and lives, but they really and truly don't care. Try explaining something slow and in laymen terms, they get twice as pissed, thinking you're talking down to them. In a way, we are, but not in a demeaning manner or way. I couldn't run a bank. They'd talk down to me all day. But they don't know crap about the excavating and dirt business. So I wondered if these people owned banks, or if they blow up on bankers when they don't get exactly what they want. I bet they don't tip wait staff either. There's more to dirt and earth material than the average person cares to think. Let contractors do their jobs. They're human. Mistakes can happen on both sides. But the name, blame, shame game solves nothing.
Great comments, thanks for sharing this story and thank you for watching !
i know your pain on change orders
Thanks- it was a ball I dropped and this was the consequence.
Outside of a hell of a tarp, not sure this much new topsoil would've held in place getting 9" of rain. Unless it's a small change, and I mean small, I generally charge 7%-10% of the total project cost for a change order. Exceptions being if an aspect of the project throws a big curve, planned materials don't work or cannot be delivered, or some facet of the prep work reveals hidden problems. Then I can usually work out a decent compromise that maybe costs me a bit, costs them a bit, but is a reasonable compromise. I'm with you on your decision, you had to roll with the change, and I'd rather get hurt some than have a bargeload of bad PR out there.
You should have done this first.. Bad job
Reel Chaos Charters, home owners want things done as cheaply as possible. Unless he marks all of his stuff up by 50%, he ate it on this one. If a home owner wants something changed, weather you agree on it or not, you get it in writing.
The customer is not a designer they have many ideas but you are the expert
It's your fault, not the customers fault. The customer has zero responsibility to know how this works. To say the customer didn't grow plants fast enough is a petty excuse. YOU are responsible to either make the slope stable enough or deny the contract. There are more than enough ways to make this slope stable - you used NON of them.
Olivio Sarikas extended gutters with 4' corrugated pipes running beneath the ground to the bottom would have saved them the gutters off the house must've turned that slope into a waterfall
Agreed. This guy is a hack.
He told the guy it was a bad idea. They had it done the right way, and the dude insisted doing it the wrong way. This reminds me of that Step-Brothers movie where they are grown men and run into their parent's room asking if they can build bunk beds. The parents are like...well, I guess. It's dumb, but you are grown men. They proceed to do it and the beds fall on them injuring them. They then run back to the parents room and yell " WHY DID YOU LET US DO THAT!? IT WAS A TERRIBLE IDEA!!!"
If I had had to do the job that I was unhappy about, I would have written an extra agreement, laying out all of my objections and reservations, stating why it was a bad idea, but that as long as the client was happy to sign that he *still* wanted to go ahead with the work, that I would do it. That way you both have a signed agreement clearly laying out who was responsible if something like this happened.
An extra agreement doesn't help you much, when you know it will fail for sure. It might help you for legal matters, but your name and brand will be damaged regardless and of course the judge will ask you why you did something when you even pointed out in a legal document that it can not work. As a professional you are the one who should have known better and protected the customer. Meaning the judge could possibly still decide against you. But the bigger damage is to your brand and to the time wasted on all of that. You might be years in court. Long story short: if you know it's a bad idea, don't do it. It's not worth it.
I was a CM for a large company in Bay Area, CA. I was dealing with Bond Measures and Junior College professors. We had 280 million bond with addition 50 Million. Parking lots was one of the phase 1 projects to get underway to give more parking to students while the new buildings and construction was happening. All of sudden added a solar project to a master plan after we were in 50% CD docs on parking lot. This happened behind the our backs with Chervon and school district. The redesign cost more than the whole parking lots were going to be. The Solar project never came close to making the power they said. Lucky two of the new building were already spec for future solar installation. Chevron on to install more panels on them. One of the things I remember signing off was for 25k for computer and huge monitor to show in the library in the solar production. They never showed it because it was so way under the number it was supposed to produce. Over all with resign, COs, and delays. A 7.5 million parking lot turned into 16 million, plus another 12 million for solar. My company could only bill the owner 40 hours a week for each of use. Trust me we work a lot more then that. It also effected the two other buildings.
I didn't know about you at first but this video got my respect
love the last line. Honestly I have made similar mistakes. Now everything is in writing. For such a huge project I would have a notorized contract outlining the risks of said change and stating that you are not responsible.
Your a good man for fixing that. Wow some customers are 50 shades of stupid.
Thanks Metalhead :) Good advice!
On your last comment, "Customers?" Kick his butt I say. I hope there are many professional and good contractors like you. Cheers!
This why I got to where I no longer want to work for customers. I now own a farm and work my self except for occassionally working for neighbors
Nice work there Stan. It really sucks that you have to deal with idiotic customers like that. Thanks for the video, keep 'em coming 👍🏽
He's a nice guy-just didn't know what was best for his job thats all ;)
First big job I had that wasn't a referral or family or friend.
I got a hit on my Angies List from a general contractor wanting to install a misting system.
I scouted the location gave them the requirements and was able to design a world class system that met their budget and within their ridiculous time frame by working through a logistics nightmare.
I wrote up an extremely detailed proposal that included the time frame for the project, the specific parts being used, the method of installation including what fasteners would be used, the location of pumps and what I needed in terms of a water source and power. I also included a clause for change orders and that any design changes would be billed at $100/hr.
Well I installed the system very short order and worked out a few kinks (had to add some fasteners because the tubing was creeping out of the fittings).
When it was time to get paid the owner of the establishment suddenly had a problem with the location of the misters.
I had a meeting with him and two representatives from the general contractor to try and explain why the placement was best.
Before the owner got there they tried to big time me and said that he wasn't happy with it and frankly neither were they it didn't make any sense to them why I put them where they were. It was then that I reminded them of the change order clause and they asked how long it would take for me to move it. I told them 20 hours at $100/hr.
Oh man, they switched real quick to help me sell the customer on the placement of the misters. Ha ha.
Gotta put that change order clause in your contracts.
In your situation since cost of removing the materials is so much I would have said once materials are delivered if the customer cancels the project they will cover the cost of labor to remove the materials and return the grade to an approximation of what it was before.
Change orders should be documented and signed by the customer and any changes to the design that are against the contractors professional opinion of best practices the customer assumes 100% liability including any damages to other people's property from these design changes.
Guarantee this guy was trying to make things difficult for you in order to make you give up and abandon the job. He knew he could mess with you because you didn't have an air tight contract.
Phenomenal story- Thanks for sharing and thanks for the solid advice.
I worked with someone who had this issue on a house that he wanted to make changes all the time at the end of the job. the superintendent told him it would be $500 for everyone change he made plus the time, effort and the cost of the material it took to do the work. Then he had to sign the contract for every time he made the changes. This protocol helps protect against things like this and you have a paper trail.
Very True Davis! I broke the golden rule.
Davis Chappell
Stan I give you a pat on the back for taking the high road nice save.
Thank you Kyle !
You handled this situation well. Good job
I had a similar situation in north salt lake. The developer did not want to pay to repair the slope the right way and we got alot of rain and it slid off of the hill and knocked a house and tennis court off of their foundations. luckily nobody was hurt.
Glad you put out this video because I'm sure theres some negative review out there from this incident, and it sure shows your side!!
I think you should have just built the retaining wall from the start, put up a fence around the top, and given him a bigger back yard. That's really what he was after even though he didn't have the budget for it. You could have said you will do that between your gravy jobs to keep clients costs low, your guys working and so as to not loose opportunity costs of other jobs.
Thanks for the comments and thanks for watching !
With you brother. Been there done that when they don't wanna listen to sound advice then blame you for their bad decisions. I learned to scale my payments due in a one third bases with a ten percent down. So I'm leveraged well enough toward the end to be able to walk away with out being hurt to much if they go off the rails. That last check used to be the hardest to get even when everything is perfect.
Great post! I have a book I call my little bible with notes from jobs gone off the tracks and where I thought the tracks were switched and it has lead me to my "Rules from the Bible". This is right up there with a couple of them. Sometimes you just have to say no. Keep those those change orders handy and hefty. Way to stick it through though.
Your book "rules from the bible" sounds like it should be a best seller.