16:30 is spot on. Effort is highly correlated with results. you don't have to train like a psycho and run yourself to the ground on every training session, but the technique cyborgs and high fatigue avoiders are almost always holding back on every single set they are doing for the sake of "not sacrificing the technique," which means a lot of the gains on the table. Not to mention, it is in fact those harder reps closer to failure that are the most stimulating for growth. Given that a lot of ppl, especially the lesser trained ones, hugely over-estimate the RPE, I think it's better to err on the side of pushing yourself rather than holding back in the gym in most contexts.
Yeah like, if all of these "training to hard is killing your gains" studies actually translated into real life then all those people who don't train hard would be jacked while all the people that do train hard would be small. Yet it is the opposite 100% of the time. This super safe, RPE training makes sense for people on a boat load of gear because they will actually tear connective tissue/tendons if they go to failure. But for your natural gym goer? Your just not strong enough for there to be any real downside to going hard.
I remember Geoff once said something to the effect of ‘you start off with technique that does not appear textbook, but you then improve and clean up that technique over time.’ I tend to agree with this sentiment. If you start off with 100% perfect technique, there is little or nothing to improve on. A little slop is necessary to push boundaries and access new adaptations that lead to physique improvements.
Don't fully agree. Getting form/execution close to perfect (for your biomechanics) doesn't stop you from progressing on the actual exercise which is the main goal. It's only when you start reaching those heavy loads where it should be acceptable to start letting the form break down a bit
@@sandymitra3152 So I don’t believe our views are that far off. GVS’s training form is visually a bit too loose for my comfort. However, I do agree with the pushback on being a perfectionist with form. If you look like a cyborg with zero deviation in form, I see a good amount of gains being left on the table. If you’re pushing boundaries, expecting form to look perfect makes no sense. I don’t agree it’s only with heavy weight either, if you are truly pushing hard with lighter weight form will not look like perfection. All this social media videoing of workouts has caused lifters to stop ignoring internal cues in an effort to appear outwardly perfect. Sometimes stuff that looks less than ideal is the sweet spot.
Yes it's hard not to improve your technique when you go consistently to the gym and at least review your form once in a while. Also as a weight gets too easy you notice that the way you were moving it previously was maybe not as clean as you thought - good technique is also a byproduct of progressive overload.
I can relate to what GVS said at the end. After you’ve been doing this lifting thing for 10+ years you realize a lot of people you may of questioned as potentially not natty become realistically natty just because you see how far you yourself have come. Many can naturally get much farther than they realize with dedication to the craft over the long-term. Our minds have truly become poisoned by black pilled ideology & steroid users muddying the waters.
HELL YEAH- guys that hoped on gear WAY too early, are always the first to say that you can't achieve anything naturally, and sure enough, give it 10 years, you can even be a bit of a screw up throughout those 10 years, and then dial in your shit and be amazed, bruh! GVS is a top-DAWG! Legit dude, loved the pod.
Just what I needed to listen to for my Saturday morning cardio, I like how Jeff Albert’s puts technique (probably butchered this) that both Steph Curry and Rick Barry shoot free throws at around the same rate but the technique is wildly different. So as long as you have “consistent” and “controlled” technique that you can progress with you should be ok.
Literally newbie gainz all over again since I started training, eating, and sleeping well all at the same time for the past year. Training for 8 years total but never put it all together until recently
Great podcast, Steve! Geoffrey's approach to heavy sets, the "get your foot in the door" idea, is one of the most simple yet effective ideas in training, and it's something that we all have done at one point or another. On paper, it should not help, but in reality, it does, as it makes old weights feel "light".
controversial point as well, I actually think "perfect" technique can lead to more injury. Back when I was hyper focused on a perfectly straight back, hitting this exact angle, having this exact grip distance etc. I would pull things all the time because I was actively forcing my body into an unnatural position for me while under heavy load. Ever since I follow the basic rules of form but otherwise let my body go where it wants. I've not had even a niggle for like 2 years. I round my back a little in deadlifts, it's more comfortable for me and end of the day if a movement has a low risk of injury while allowing me to exert a high amount of force then to hell what anyone else says.
If you are feeling pain as a result of adopting a certain method of lifting, that's not actually "good" technique. Good technique takes individualization into account, for the purposes of maximizing SFR.
If you're getting into unnatural positions under load, that just can't be perfect technique broski. Perfect technique for you has the prime movers as the limiting factor. I say this as someone who definitely believes some body English on heavier weights can definitely help break through a plateau, but it just sounds like you were doing someone else's idea of perfect technique, like listening to Jeff cavalier or something, if it's perfect technique for you, you shouldn't be getting hurt regularly.
@@rockyevans1584 Yeah, that's the point I was making. People follow this step by step guide on what "perfect" technique is but sometimes breaking the "rules" to do what is more natural to your body is actually the perfect way for you.
@@Fitsuuu you're listening to grifters, any decent source of info is clear that perfect form is unique to the individual. No one can tell you how you feel
Sit somewhere in the middle, there's definitely a lot of factors in place. When I'm coaching clients it really depends on the clients existing training style, age, injury history, mobility etc. as long as they are pushing close to failure, adequate recovery between sessions and progressing at least on a monthly basis (depending on how advanced they are). If they have been stuck on the pink dumbbells for about 6 months, might have to try a few other things.
True to the first points, I OHP maxed for years and definitely had the oversized shoulders look. Now I've moved onto bench maxing I feel like my shoulders look like shit with my chest coming up so much, even though my shoulder numbers are still going up.
@@beburs He would have to gain minimum 100lbs to be competitive at strongman and his overall frame is too small for it. The avg height for a strongman is 6ft 3.
@@beburs I'd be pretty bad at strongman, not even remotely competitive. Maybe would be OK at the events involving running like sandbags but my pressing/deadlifting strength is not even close to what it would need to be.
I float between 190 and 205 and on the leaner side people guess I weigh 170 in clothes😢. I get crazy compliments when bulked and then people ask what happened to my arms when I'm back on the low end lmao
Like closing with partials, or rep then half rep, repeat? I'm always looking for better ways to hit quads in a squat, m'dang glutes seem to steal all the glory
@ I’d say try raising your heels and making sure you’re breaking with your knees to extend them out over your toes, and going as deep as possible. In terms of the half reps, I’ll do them on a back-off set and do a slow eccentric > half rep > all the way up > repeat. If I had access to a smith machine I might just do the half reps
@@Krimbopulous I already raise my heels 2", I've played with every possible stance, and even raised heel front squats leave doms in my glutes and adductors haha. I've had success modifying my cable leg ext set up(basement lifter) to allow me to lay back and I get almost full range, calf to hams knee flexion, but before that my squat was improving well but quads didn't seem to grow while my butt certainly did. I guess I have leverages that every chick wants, but I'll try the rep/ half rep before my next planned program and see if I can't squat for quad pumps
That point about deep squatting as a taller lofter is spot on, I think. When I insist on full depth, I often feel adductor soreness th next day, not quad
GVS is right. I have 17 inch arms and I don't even work them. My arms grew to 17 and 3/4 inches with very little focus on arm training. Working arms bores the living crap out of me. Curling is tedious. I like pushing heavy weights or I get bored of going to the gym. That's why people should do what they want in the gym. Whatever gets them in there whether it is building arm size like GVS or competing and his job like Steve. Lifting is supposed to be an enjoyable activity.
@@gorillahottortilla9194 if compounds grow your arms past your first two years of training, you have great genetics. If i go under 10 sets a week for biceps and triceps, my arms stagnate.
I was the opposite - did predominantly heavy compounds like bench, deadlift, squat, pull-ups, etc for years and my arms (especially triceps) barely grew. Finally did dedicated arms and my arms blew up
I wanna See Geoff Training Jeff Alberts And you Steve And Jeff Alberts Training Geoff, for maybe 6 months with bulking and See which Results each of them gets
If it takes longer to warm up because of the weight being heavier it’s just because you’re jumping looking at the weight instead of %. 20% (of the working weight 10-12 reps) for 10, 50% for 8, 75% for 5, 90% for 3. Most people would then do the working weight but I actually do 2 more using the working weight I find my first set is stronger that way. Then I push 0 RIR/failure rest 3 minutes 2nd set same thing then move to the next exercise. If there’s overlap between exercises I’ll get to the working weight faster in following warm ups. I don’t have a problem failing free weighted exercises it’s easy to maintain form when your tempo is slow it’s just like doing a lengthened partial but with less weight
I personally saw nothing but stagnation while hyper-focusing on technique. Around the time everyone was trying to teach the deadlift as this slow and controlled sit back and feel the stretch movement. It never worked for me. I like my SLDL with a little bounce off the bottom and just pushing weight. Belt, tight core and lowerback, rest will take care of itself. Got me to a 500lb SLDL at 190 lb and way more sore than any other method.
I don't think I've ever seen or heard of anyone stagnating because they focus on technique too much, this seems like one of those less than 1% problems we don't really need to address because of how prevalent the other side of the coin is
Ive started a few weeks ago training my calfes with myo reps but the Mini sets are Just lenghtend partials (1full rom activation Set, than 10 sec Rest than 3 partials than 10sec Rest 3 partials, repeat Till the Point were i cant get 3) then Rest 2 minute and do Just shortend partials. Since i do this i am getting over a strenght Plateau (i Hope because of more Hypertrophy) By the way the Pump from the lenghtend partials i very nice
If there is one place we can have some real confidence lengthened partials likely work very well, it's the calves. Good stuff, I am combining them with myo-reps right now too & it's PAINFUL but in the best way. - Steve
This was a great podcast. I have had reservations about GVS since channels like RP have grown wildly in popularity and clearly seemed to become a target of negativity for him. RP will constantly claim to not ignore load on the bar, that too much focus on technique has a lot of downsides. It's all agreement here. The technique cyborg series and RP, which GVS was clearly talking about, is never accurately critiqued by him.
I don’t think the people within RP generally disregard weight on the bar. The issue for me is when they post people lifting with an RIR over 5,000 for the technique cyborg series. The skill of utilizing technique does not come into play until the weight gets high enough or the relative effort exceeds a certain threshold. It’s obscenely easy to have textbook ultra-controlled technique when you are doing 12 reps with your 26 rep max. There does seem to be a fair amount of variance between the cyborgs, but I definitely wouldn’t post some of them as the pinnacle of skillfully executed exercise technique in an applied context.
@@hayesdelezene4590 Completely agree. But that last part i don't think Dr. Mike or RP has ever claimed that. It's good technique. That's it. Some of the clips end short prior to the conclusion of the set. And they never said it couldn't be a warm up set. "here is stellar technique. if you use this technique close to failure and/or with high enough loads it will likely be most optimal from an SfR perspective. And here are SOME examples of that stellar technique taken close to failure (and with high loads of they are strong enough)". That's kind of what I take away from that series.
@@emmang2010 it's all a strawman argument from them to get views. they saw that eric guy was getting views for "critiquing" RP so they jumped on the bandwagon.
Mike Israetel has said that cheat reps are stupid and should never be done. GVS is right to criticise this. There are valid use cases for cheating. Example 1: When you can't do more pull ups, you cheat your way to the top and lower yourself down slowly. Example 2: You can use momentum to smooth out a faulty resistance profile in certain lifts.
29:48 alex leonidas said this too..oh you don’t do bent over rows because of the lower back fatigue even tho you row 1 plate a side? Sound like you NEED to do bent over rows
ive neen enjoying 1.5x reps for calisthenics. works great with dips. i do it with pullups too but i go up, half down, up, all the way down, repeat. not lengthened biased in that case but youre pausing in that hard midrange of the pullup. sucks for rows tho.
When other people put on a lot of muscle deep in to their training careers its roids but when i do it i just finally started training properly for the first time in 8 years of training
It happens, for lots of reasons, many don't know or aren't able to apply the things that lead to the best growth & they stagnate. For example I handicapped my growth by trying to stay too lean & not pushing my weight up, so when I let myself do this, I grew better than before. It's very unrealistic to think your muscle gain will follow this simple line of diminishing returns. - Steve
So GVS who had nearly decade of training writes books about how to train coaches people on how to train has a very popular RUclips channel centered around training put on nearly 15lbs of muscle in 3 years what Holy Grail of technique did he learn or maybe GVS who's entire life is focused on training for the most part wasn't eating enough protein lol
41:15 I disagree. It would be much more productive/effective to save all that energy used in partial reps for another set with more correct form. Believe me, It will get harder. I used to do the same Just like Joffrey, but there comes a time when there is no way to evolve with these crazy repetitions, just become more risky.
I'm listening to the "what is good technique?" section and there seems to be some logical fallacies. What is the correlation between effort/intensity and technique? There isn't. And then the guest says that people shouldn't try to avoid fatigue, but rather, "excessive fatigue." Right, so how do you avoid "excessive" fatigue? By practicing good technique so that the target muscle/s approach failure without needless fatigue. I can see people avoiding certain movements that yield high raw stimulus at the fear of fatigue but that's a totally separate topic from technique.
@@MariusMitrache it makes sense in all regards. Maybe it doesn't make sense in your head. But that says more about your head than the words themselves.
You're logic is presupposing that you can accurately measure stimulus and fatigue. You can't, you can only try to estimate these things through other proxies. You also ignore that if you stop every set at the point of minimal form breakdown, depending on the resistance profile of the exercise, you could be very far away from muscular failure and therefore the intensity will be very low. Your argument also seems to assume everyone accumulates, and more importantly dissipates, fatigue at the same rate. They don't. Literally a couple years ago someone like you would be calling lengthened partials "bad form". Excessive fatigue is the one you can't recover from. Who cares if in order to receive a higher stimulus I worsen the SFR of an excersize if I can still tolerate the level of fatigue in my overall workout routine.
@FelixTonco1 Literally just do a rest-pause set or drop set or various other intensity techniques that don't require form breakdown. And now you're not unnecessarily involving non-target muscles, driving up adrenal fatigue for no reason, and there's a lower injury risk. Also, your first comment is false. It's like saying, "um, you can't measure health, you can only measure the various components that make up your overall health." You can measure stimulus, you can measure fatigue for all intents and purposes besides petty semantics.
@@SPRVLN27 i don't think its quite that easy to define good technique as someone aluded to previously a few years back dr. Mike would have called "over" a set of calves or rows when he couldnt get to the arbitrary top of the rom, and now he agrees that lengthen partials have a place, and so he doesnt stop his sets as early. What i'm getting at and what i think gvs is getting at aswell is that its not so clear cut when a set has reached appropriate hypertrophy technical failure, hereby you maybe shouldnt cut short sets as soon as a bit of technique degradation happens. Tell me if that makes sense.
This statement is odd, so if someone is called a fake natty & tries to prove otherwise, they're on stuff, but if they don't try to prove otherwise...they're on stuff? - Steve
@@ReviveStronger If you are natural just let it slide. People will call you whatever on the internet and you can not chase everyone. Guilt is very powerful so people will often make dedicated videos proving something that doesn't need to be proved or admitting their lies.
@@Donadzea There’s tons of black pilling going on in this community, it makes perfect sense that someone such as GVS, who is trying to help natural lifters, pushes back on the narrative of if anyone looks like they lift they are a fake natty.
On the topic of technique and cyborgs, Geoff tries so hard to be contrarian to RP, but his criticism never really hits home. Not mentionning effort and proximity to failure renders his point invalid: it's not ego to focus on technique assuming high effort is provided. Effort within the parameters of good technique is not ego lifting. I agree that *some* cyborgs videos show really low intensity and maybe 10RIR, but he should criticizes lack of effort rather than good technique.
Yeah. RP is quite nuanced on all of this and his critiques are largely straw men. All the good YT lifting guys have very similar messages which all start with consistency and patience.
@stunna2305 I truly believe it works for naturals too. For example on a Machine Chest Press, if you can grind your 2-3 last reps with keeping the same technique, chest up and shoulders not caving in - or a Cable Curl, elbows in front and no hip swing, you can't say won't grow from that. Where is the ego when rep speed decreases inside the same technique? Again, my point is that Geoff should criticizes lack of effort, not technique.
@@fluffyscruffybecause effort and technique kind of go hand in hand... i think main critique is this: if you use bad form because you lift too heavy, its ego lifting, your ego is attached to the weight and other variables suffer... But if you use ultra strict technique, your effort and weight being used will suffer as well because you focus too much on form...you attach your ego to form Now if you tell me you should have perfect technique and also push very hard and progressively overload, i would agree with that on paper, but i tried that and it just kind of doesnt work for many exercises...you can allways slow down eccentric more, pause a little longer etc. and it will kill the progress on that lift...at least thats what i found
Basically he was natty for 7 years, than jumped on gear, did two bulks and a minicut and now he looks like this. And it's not because of drugs its because he added arm day.
Guys please believe me! I only gained a ton of new muscle late into my training because my technique got better lol. I know GVS is loved but the dude literally lives in China. Likes he’s going to be honest about using illegal drugs as a foreigner. I like GVS as much as the next guy but still pretty suspicious. Maybe he’s natty, though. I say it’s 50/50
As an example, I trained high volume for a good amount of years with modest results. In more recent years I switch to low volume and saw what some would describe as a suspicious growth spurt. I’m definitely no juicer, I just was not training properly for my own situation. The longer you do this, the more you learn, the more advanced you become, you uncover ways to drive progress. Assuming the lifter is open and willing to experiment of course. The idea that the needle is the only way to drive progress as a lifter becomes more advanced is a ridiculous black pilled mindset.
lol another fake natty. 100% has cycled in his life; not bikes. Obvious to anyone with an eye who has been at this for 20+ years. The thumbnail itself was a red flag.
16:30 is spot on. Effort is highly correlated with results. you don't have to train like a psycho and run yourself to the ground on every training session, but the technique cyborgs and high fatigue avoiders are almost always holding back on every single set they are doing for the sake of "not sacrificing the technique," which means a lot of the gains on the table. Not to mention, it is in fact those harder reps closer to failure that are the most stimulating for growth. Given that a lot of ppl, especially the lesser trained ones, hugely over-estimate the RPE, I think it's better to err on the side of pushing yourself rather than holding back in the gym in most contexts.
Yep agree! - Steve
Well said!
Yeah like, if all of these "training to hard is killing your gains" studies actually translated into real life then all those people who don't train hard would be jacked while all the people that do train hard would be small. Yet it is the opposite 100% of the time.
This super safe, RPE training makes sense for people on a boat load of gear because they will actually tear connective tissue/tendons if they go to failure. But for your natural gym goer? Your just not strong enough for there to be any real downside to going hard.
I remember Geoff once said something to the effect of ‘you start off with technique that does not appear textbook, but you then improve and clean up that technique over time.’
I tend to agree with this sentiment. If you start off with 100% perfect technique, there is little or nothing to improve on. A little slop is necessary to push boundaries and access new adaptations that lead to physique improvements.
Based on what?
@@cesarandrade1987Practical experience i.e. good broscience 😄
Don't fully agree. Getting form/execution close to perfect (for your biomechanics) doesn't stop you from progressing on the actual exercise which is the main goal. It's only when you start reaching those heavy loads where it should be acceptable to start letting the form break down a bit
@@sandymitra3152
So I don’t believe our views are that far off. GVS’s training form is visually a bit too loose for my comfort. However, I do agree with the pushback on being a perfectionist with form. If you look like a cyborg with zero deviation in form, I see a good amount of gains being left on the table. If you’re pushing boundaries, expecting form to look perfect makes no sense. I don’t agree it’s only with heavy weight either, if you are truly pushing hard with lighter weight form will not look like perfection.
All this social media videoing of workouts has caused lifters to stop ignoring internal cues in an effort to appear outwardly perfect. Sometimes stuff that looks less than ideal is the sweet spot.
Yes it's hard not to improve your technique when you go consistently to the gym and at least review your form once in a while. Also as a weight gets too easy you notice that the way you were moving it previously was maybe not as clean as you thought - good technique is also a byproduct of progressive overload.
I see GVS in a podcast I click.
Same.
Love the dude!
Same
I see NPC comment, I say it’s NPC comment
I can relate to what GVS said at the end. After you’ve been doing this lifting thing for 10+ years you realize a lot of people you may of questioned as potentially not natty become realistically natty just because you see how far you yourself have come. Many can naturally get much farther than they realize with dedication to the craft over the long-term. Our minds have truly become poisoned by black pilled ideology & steroid users muddying the waters.
100% I feel that way too - Steve
GVS really knows how to translate his experiences into words by far my favorite natty❤
He’s really good at putting it into words through his experience. He’s helped my training a lot especially for arms.
HELL YEAH- guys that hoped on gear WAY too early, are always the first to say that you can't achieve anything naturally, and sure enough, give it 10 years, you can even be a bit of a screw up throughout those 10 years, and then dial in your shit and be amazed, bruh!
GVS is a top-DAWG! Legit dude, loved the pod.
Just what I needed to listen to for my Saturday morning cardio,
I like how Jeff Albert’s puts technique (probably butchered this) that both Steph Curry and Rick Barry shoot free throws at around the same rate but the technique is wildly different. So as long as you have “consistent” and “controlled” technique that you can progress with you should be ok.
Enjoy Varun! - Steve
Literally newbie gainz all over again since I started training, eating, and sleeping well all at the same time for the past year. Training for 8 years total but never put it all together until recently
This drops as I'm literally walking into the gym 🤝🤝
Maybe some pre-workout fuel :) - Steve
you were spot on with GVS thinking for himeself and prompting the viewera to do so as one of his strong points
Great podcast, Steve! Geoffrey's approach to heavy sets, the "get your foot in the door" idea, is one of the most simple yet effective ideas in training, and it's something that we all have done at one point or another. On paper, it should not help, but in reality, it does, as it makes old weights feel "light".
I don't do this specific method, but I like down sets for this reps and why I think many use top and back off sets. Glad you enjoyed this. - Steve
controversial point as well, I actually think "perfect" technique can lead to more injury. Back when I was hyper focused on a perfectly straight back, hitting this exact angle, having this exact grip distance etc. I would pull things all the time because I was actively forcing my body into an unnatural position for me while under heavy load.
Ever since I follow the basic rules of form but otherwise let my body go where it wants. I've not had even a niggle for like 2 years. I round my back a little in deadlifts, it's more comfortable for me and end of the day if a movement has a low risk of injury while allowing me to exert a high amount of force then to hell what anyone else says.
If you are feeling pain as a result of adopting a certain method of lifting, that's not actually "good" technique. Good technique takes individualization into account, for the purposes of maximizing SFR.
If you're getting into unnatural positions under load, that just can't be perfect technique broski. Perfect technique for you has the prime movers as the limiting factor. I say this as someone who definitely believes some body English on heavier weights can definitely help break through a plateau, but it just sounds like you were doing someone else's idea of perfect technique, like listening to Jeff cavalier or something, if it's perfect technique for you, you shouldn't be getting hurt regularly.
@@rockyevans1584 Yeah, that's the point I was making. People follow this step by step guide on what "perfect" technique is but sometimes breaking the "rules" to do what is more natural to your body is actually the perfect way for you.
@@Fitsuuu you're listening to grifters, any decent source of info is clear that perfect form is unique to the individual. No one can tell you how you feel
Sit somewhere in the middle, there's definitely a lot of factors in place.
When I'm coaching clients it really depends on the clients existing training style, age, injury history, mobility etc.
as long as they are pushing close to failure, adequate recovery between sessions and progressing at least on a monthly basis (depending on how advanced they are).
If they have been stuck on the pink dumbbells for about 6 months, might have to try a few other things.
Great episode with a great guest and a host!
Thanks for your support! - Steve
Loved the discussion! Really enjoyed listening to it and learned a lot of new things. 🙌
Thats gotta be a CGI thumbnail GVS looking insane
Good physique + good lighting, angle, posing
Nah, he did a cut a while back, looked freaky as all get out. Well, with the lighting and pump.
Perfect podcast for an off day doing some LISS 🔥
This was great. I took away so much great info. Would be great to see other “noble natties” on the show
Who's on your list? I have been trying to get Alex on :D - Steve
@@ReviveStrongerBald Omni Man and Natural Hypertrophy would make good guests
@@ReviveStrongerWould also love to see Basement Bodybuilding!
True to the first points, I OHP maxed for years and definitely had the oversized shoulders look. Now I've moved onto bench maxing I feel like my shoulders look like shit with my chest coming up so much, even though my shoulder numbers are still going up.
GVS is a literal giant walking around china at 6ft with his level of muscularity
Shame he doesn’t do strongman sense his weight and muscle would make him super strong if he trains for it
@@beburs He would have to gain minimum 100lbs to be competitive at strongman and his overall frame is too small for it. The avg height for a strongman is 6ft 3.
@@beburs I'd be pretty bad at strongman, not even remotely competitive. Maybe would be OK at the events involving running like sandbags but my pressing/deadlifting strength is not even close to what it would need to be.
He’s right about genetics. I was weighing 145lbs at 5’10 having multiple people tell me I looked around 170lbs. Now I’m actually 170
I float between 190 and 205 and on the leaner side people guess I weigh 170 in clothes😢. I get crazy compliments when bulked and then people ask what happened to my arms when I'm back on the low end lmao
Love GVS - this is great stuff. I will say that for me, the full-range deep squats with some half reps at the bottom have been great for my quads.
Like closing with partials, or rep then half rep, repeat? I'm always looking for better ways to hit quads in a squat, m'dang glutes seem to steal all the glory
@ I’d say try raising your heels and making sure you’re breaking with your knees to extend them out over your toes, and going as deep as possible.
In terms of the half reps, I’ll do them on a back-off set and do a slow eccentric > half rep > all the way up > repeat. If I had access to a smith machine I might just do the half reps
@@Krimbopulous I already raise my heels 2", I've played with every possible stance, and even raised heel front squats leave doms in my glutes and adductors haha. I've had success modifying my cable leg ext set up(basement lifter) to allow me to lay back and I get almost full range, calf to hams knee flexion, but before that my squat was improving well but quads didn't seem to grow while my butt certainly did. I guess I have leverages that every chick wants, but I'll try the rep/ half rep before my next planned program and see if I can't squat for quad pumps
That point about deep squatting as a taller lofter is spot on, I think. When I insist on full depth, I often feel adductor soreness th next day, not quad
GVS is right. I have 17 inch arms and I don't even work them. My arms grew to 17 and 3/4 inches with very little focus on arm training. Working arms bores the living crap out of me. Curling is tedious. I like pushing heavy weights or I get bored of going to the gym. That's why people should do what they want in the gym. Whatever gets them in there whether it is building arm size like GVS or competing and his job like Steve. Lifting is supposed to be an enjoyable activity.
that's just your genetics. if you actually did structured arm training, you could've been at 18 or more at the moment
Enjoyment is the key to adherence and adherence is imperative for results, totally agree. - Steve
@@stopplzs Maybe. Maybe in his case copmounds are perfect for arm growth
@@gorillahottortilla9194 if compounds grow your arms past your first two years of training, you have great genetics. If i go under 10 sets a week for biceps and triceps, my arms stagnate.
I was the opposite - did predominantly heavy compounds like bench, deadlift, squat, pull-ups, etc for years and my arms (especially triceps) barely grew. Finally did dedicated arms and my arms blew up
Great podcast!
A true 2 RIR...like you're experienced enough to know true failure, then you'll have a greater likelihood to understand a true 2 RIR.
Cant wait to listen to this one!
Dude that pic in the thumbnail is so awesome lol
I wanna See Geoff Training Jeff Alberts And you Steve And Jeff Alberts Training Geoff, for maybe 6 months with bulking and See which Results each of them gets
It would be cool and fun, but we're all quite advanced & so 6 months won't lead to a lot of change :D - Steve
If it takes longer to warm up because of the weight being heavier it’s just because you’re jumping looking at the weight instead of %. 20% (of the working weight 10-12 reps) for 10, 50% for 8, 75% for 5, 90% for 3. Most people would then do the working weight but I actually do 2 more using the working weight I find my first set is stronger that way. Then I push 0 RIR/failure rest 3 minutes 2nd set same thing then move to the next exercise. If there’s overlap between exercises I’ll get to the working weight faster in following warm ups. I don’t have a problem failing free weighted exercises it’s easy to maintain form when your tempo is slow it’s just like doing a lengthened partial but with less weight
It's not a revive stronger podcast without Steve mentioning his arms (take 2) 😉
You need to tally all the ones where I don't mention them :D - Steve
What about mentioning brian decostas genetics? Haha it should have been a drinking game
@@watsonkushmaster3067 Haha true. Plenty of natty freaks around to make the rest of us feel bad about ourselves these days
nice one STEVE!, like you guys both
Great listen gents👏🏻
I personally saw nothing but stagnation while hyper-focusing on technique. Around the time everyone was trying to teach the deadlift as this slow and controlled sit back and feel the stretch movement. It never worked for me. I like my SLDL with a little bounce off the bottom and just pushing weight. Belt, tight core and lowerback, rest will take care of itself. Got me to a 500lb SLDL at 190 lb and way more sore than any other method.
I think hyperfocus isn't the way to go, there is a middle ground for sure :) - Steve
This should be a good one
Thanks guys Great content
Excellent power combo here.
Just curious, but why is downloads restricted?
Nothing we have done on our end. - Steve
@@ReviveStronger RUclips being weird I suppose. I appreciate the response. Cheers :)
How big are your arms while lean?
I don't think I've ever seen or heard of anyone stagnating because they focus on technique too much, this seems like one of those less than 1% problems we don't really need to address because of how prevalent the other side of the coin is
It very possible, weight getting to easy, so person just train endurance.
Ive started a few weeks ago training my calfes with myo reps but the Mini sets are Just lenghtend partials (1full rom activation Set, than 10 sec Rest than 3 partials than 10sec Rest 3 partials, repeat Till the Point were i cant get 3) then Rest 2 minute and do Just shortend partials.
Since i do this i am getting over a strenght Plateau (i Hope because of more Hypertrophy)
By the way the Pump from the lenghtend partials i very nice
If there is one place we can have some real confidence lengthened partials likely work very well, it's the calves. Good stuff, I am combining them with myo-reps right now too & it's PAINFUL but in the best way. - Steve
@@ReviveStronger do you also doing your myo Rep Mini sets Just lenghtend partials only?
@@ew-zd1th Just partials, no full rom for calves.
@@ReviveStronger would you say your calfes got bigger from this?
@@ew-zd1th yes, not crazy gains but notably larger - I WISH I'd measured them because I am sure I'd then be able to provide some objective numbers.
big fan of GVS ❤
Thanks
This was a great podcast. I have had reservations about GVS since channels like RP have grown wildly in popularity and clearly seemed to become a target of negativity for him.
RP will constantly claim to not ignore load on the bar, that too much focus on technique has a lot of downsides. It's all agreement here. The technique cyborg series and RP, which GVS was clearly talking about, is never accurately critiqued by him.
I don’t think the people within RP generally disregard weight on the bar. The issue for me is when they post people lifting with an RIR over 5,000 for the technique cyborg series. The skill of utilizing technique does not come into play until the weight gets high enough or the relative effort exceeds a certain threshold. It’s obscenely easy to have textbook ultra-controlled technique when you are doing 12 reps with your 26 rep max. There does seem to be a fair amount of variance between the cyborgs, but I definitely wouldn’t post some of them as the pinnacle of skillfully executed exercise technique in an applied context.
@@hayesdelezene4590 Completely agree. But that last part i don't think Dr. Mike or RP has ever claimed that. It's good technique. That's it.
Some of the clips end short prior to the conclusion of the set. And they never said it couldn't be a warm up set.
"here is stellar technique. if you use this technique close to failure and/or with high enough loads it will likely be most optimal from an SfR perspective. And here are SOME examples of that stellar technique taken close to failure (and with high loads of they are strong enough)".
That's kind of what I take away from that series.
@@emmang2010 it's all a strawman argument from them to get views. they saw that eric guy was getting views for "critiquing" RP so they jumped on the bandwagon.
@@stopplzs True. Yeah Eric Bugenhagen or something like that. I know what you mean.
Mike Israetel has said that cheat reps are stupid and should never be done. GVS is right to criticise this. There are valid use cases for cheating.
Example 1: When you can't do more pull ups, you cheat your way to the top and lower yourself down slowly.
Example 2: You can use momentum to smooth out a faulty resistance profile in certain lifts.
GVS the supreme natty king 💪💪💪💪💪
arm day returns!
29:48 alex leonidas said this too..oh you don’t do bent over rows because of the lower back fatigue even tho you row 1 plate a side? Sound like you NEED to do bent over rows
25:42 UF unnecessary fatigue, something like that?
I was driving, this part made me laugh
1:03:03 What study he is talking about? Where i can see this video? This is interesting and long awaited.
Search for Martin Refalo on our channel/podcast & the most recent interview is talking about this study. - Steve
This is all very interesting but has anyone noticed how massive Steve's arms are considering his BW and height?
ive neen enjoying 1.5x reps for calisthenics. works great with dips. i do it with pullups too but i go up, half down, up, all the way down, repeat. not lengthened biased in that case but youre pausing in that hard midrange of the pullup. sucks for rows tho.
Lets gooooooooo!
Anyone have a link to those videos for the Leg Press Martin Refalo RIR studies? Can't find them at all
We even recorded a podcast together talking about the study & linked it in the show notes as always. - Steve
@@ReviveStronger Thanks Steve, will have to give that a view!
This whole stimulus to fatigue ratio probably doesn’t apply to 95% of lifters. Just focus on more stimulus with good form.
When other people put on a lot of muscle deep in to their training careers its roids but when i do it i just finally started training properly for the first time in 8 years of training
And he trains arms differently than most people and apparently his genetics just kicked in recently 😅😅😅
It happens, for lots of reasons, many don't know or aren't able to apply the things that lead to the best growth & they stagnate. For example I handicapped my growth by trying to stay too lean & not pushing my weight up, so when I let myself do this, I grew better than before. It's very unrealistic to think your muscle gain will follow this simple line of diminishing returns. - Steve
So GVS who had nearly decade of training writes books about how to train coaches people on how to train has a very popular RUclips channel centered around training put on nearly 15lbs of muscle in 3 years what Holy Grail of technique did he learn or maybe GVS who's entire life is focused on training for the most part wasn't eating enough protein lol
Maybe he just hopped on Turkbuilder I heard its even better than creatine
For the algorithm
41:15 I disagree. It would be much more productive/effective to save all that energy used in partial reps for another set with more correct form. Believe me, It will get harder. I used to do the same Just like Joffrey, but there comes a time when there is no way to evolve with these crazy repetitions, just become more risky.
geoff a solid dude
do you think he’s natty
Looks like he went to the Darkside judging by the thumbnail😂😂😂
My reps start slowing probably 5 reps from failure, I don’t stop until I can’t actually move it anymore. Except on deadlifts, that’s a bad idea.
I'm listening to the "what is good technique?" section and there seems to be some logical fallacies. What is the correlation between effort/intensity and technique? There isn't. And then the guest says that people shouldn't try to avoid fatigue, but rather, "excessive fatigue." Right, so how do you avoid "excessive" fatigue? By practicing good technique so that the target muscle/s approach failure without needless fatigue. I can see people avoiding certain movements that yield high raw stimulus at the fear of fatigue but that's a totally separate topic from technique.
When you wrote this, did it make any sense in your head?
@@MariusMitrache it makes sense in all regards. Maybe it doesn't make sense in your head. But that says more about your head than the words themselves.
You're logic is presupposing that you can accurately measure stimulus and fatigue. You can't, you can only try to estimate these things through other proxies. You also ignore that if you stop every set at the point of minimal form breakdown, depending on the resistance profile of the exercise, you could be very far away from muscular failure and therefore the intensity will be very low. Your argument also seems to assume everyone accumulates, and more importantly dissipates, fatigue at the same rate. They don't.
Literally a couple years ago someone like you would be calling lengthened partials "bad form".
Excessive fatigue is the one you can't recover from. Who cares if in order to receive a higher stimulus I worsen the SFR of an excersize if I can still tolerate the level of fatigue in my overall workout routine.
@FelixTonco1
Literally just do a rest-pause set or drop set or various other intensity techniques that don't require form breakdown. And now you're not unnecessarily involving non-target muscles, driving up adrenal fatigue for no reason, and there's a lower injury risk.
Also, your first comment is false. It's like saying, "um, you can't measure health, you can only measure the various components that make up your overall health." You can measure stimulus, you can measure fatigue for all intents and purposes besides petty semantics.
@@SPRVLN27 i don't think its quite that easy to define good technique as someone aluded to previously a few years back dr. Mike would have called "over" a set of calves or rows when he couldnt get to the arbitrary top of the rom, and now he agrees that lengthen partials have a place, and so he doesnt stop his sets as early. What i'm getting at and what i think gvs is getting at aswell is that its not so clear cut when a set has reached appropriate hypertrophy technical failure, hereby you maybe shouldnt cut short sets as soon as a bit of technique degradation happens. Tell me if that makes sense.
Usually when someone tries to prove that they are not on steroids they are indeed on steroids. We had examples of this already.
This statement is odd, so if someone is called a fake natty & tries to prove otherwise, they're on stuff, but if they don't try to prove otherwise...they're on stuff? - Steve
@@ReviveStronger If you are natural just let it slide. People will call you whatever on the internet and you can not chase everyone. Guilt is very powerful so people will often make dedicated videos proving something that doesn't need to be proved or admitting their lies.
@@Donadzea
There’s tons of black pilling going on in this community, it makes perfect sense that someone such as GVS, who is trying to help natural lifters, pushes back on the narrative of if anyone looks like they lift they are a fake natty.
You know your making good progress when you start getting accusations.
@@bullinvginshop9011 hahaha nice one man
1:29:19 Jason Blaha?
Imagine taking steroids when you can look like this naturally while starting lifting at 25
U can't just do some lengthen partials and blow things up again
Wow, so cheat rows with shit form grew his traps. Alex Leonidas back in the day was right
On the topic of technique and cyborgs, Geoff tries so hard to be contrarian to RP, but his criticism never really hits home. Not mentionning effort and proximity to failure renders his point invalid: it's not ego to focus on technique assuming high effort is provided. Effort within the parameters of good technique is not ego lifting. I agree that *some* cyborgs videos show really low intensity and maybe 10RIR, but he should criticizes lack of effort rather than good technique.
Yeah. RP is quite nuanced on all of this and his critiques are largely straw men. All the good YT lifting guys have very similar messages which all start with consistency and patience.
He isn’t contrarian to RP, he’s contrarian to the technique cyborgs (beginners) that they’re pushing on their insta who don’t know better
@@pouihurmen there was a solid amount of clickbait surrounding this issue, no?
@stunna2305 I truly believe it works for naturals too. For example on a Machine Chest Press, if you can grind your 2-3 last reps with keeping the same technique, chest up and shoulders not caving in - or a Cable Curl, elbows in front and no hip swing, you can't say won't grow from that. Where is the ego when rep speed decreases inside the same technique? Again, my point is that Geoff should criticizes lack of effort, not technique.
@@fluffyscruffybecause effort and technique kind of go hand in hand...
i think main critique is this: if you use bad form because you lift too heavy, its ego lifting, your ego is attached to the weight and other variables suffer...
But if you use ultra strict technique, your effort and weight being used will suffer as well because you focus too much on form...you attach your ego to form
Now if you tell me you should have perfect technique and also push very hard and progressively overload, i would agree with that on paper, but i tried that and it just kind of doesnt work for many exercises...you can allways slow down eccentric more, pause a little longer etc. and it will kill the progress on that lift...at least thats what i found
42:45
Basically he was natty for 7 years, than jumped on gear, did two bulks and a minicut and now he looks like this. And it's not because of drugs its because he added arm day.
GVS can be top 3 wnbf world champion.
Bro saw gains because of chinese bath tub tren
Oh my god the obsession with bracing 😂😂
Guys please believe me! I only gained a ton of new muscle late into my training because my technique got better lol. I know GVS is loved but the dude literally lives in China. Likes he’s going to be honest about using illegal drugs as a foreigner. I like GVS as much as the next guy but still pretty suspicious. Maybe he’s natty, though. I say it’s 50/50
He's juiced
As an example, I trained high volume for a good amount of years with modest results. In more recent years I switch to low volume and saw what some would describe as a suspicious growth spurt. I’m definitely no juicer, I just was not training properly for my own situation. The longer you do this, the more you learn, the more advanced you become, you uncover ways to drive progress. Assuming the lifter is open and willing to experiment of course.
The idea that the needle is the only way to drive progress as a lifter becomes more advanced is a ridiculous black pilled mindset.
@@mikep932 can you substantiate your claim?
If you're not strong enough to do a rep with good technique, then it's probably not that bad that it's holding you back
He attaches too much value on steroids
lol another fake natty. 100% has cycled in his life; not bikes. Obvious to anyone with an eye who has been at this for 20+ years. The thumbnail itself was a red flag.
it’s good lighting+pump and Leaness and overall muscle size
Nah, you're a blackpilled coper
"remarkable growth". Not really. He looks pretty average.
Brother, look at his arms
42:45