Check out the channel of the original AikiJutsu vs Karate video: ruclips.net/user/KarateDojowaKu To learn more about Oliver Enkamp and his pro MMA career check out his social media here: www.oliverenkamp.com @oliverenkamp on Instagram and facebook.com/oliverenkampMMA for Facebook If you want to see my Aikido vs Judo sparring click here: ruclips.net/video/InqR17oQ8t4/видео.html
This has far less to do with styles and more to do with size. The Aikido guy weighs in around 220 pounds. The Karate guy about 150 pounds. This proves NOTHING. Aikido is and always will be a J O K E
@Craig G Why do you think they have weight classes in combat sports? And they always have. A good big man beats a good little man all the time. Do you know why? The little dude has to deal with the big dudes size. He gets hit ...his neck and jaw are smaller...lights out. The big guy gets hit by the little guy and ....not so bad he's felt far worse. Don't get me wrong a good little guy can beat an big average person....Size alone is an incredible force to overcome though.
@Craig G Well, first of all you competed at LH. That means that you were not giving up that much weight to a HW. And it's less of a percentage of the total. I'm just using raw numbers, but if a HW was say 200 pounds and you weighed 180, you were only giving up 10% in body weight. So you were not quite small enough to have a major size disadvantage, and you were fast enough to make up for it. A true little man would not be able to sustain continued punches from that 200 pounder. So I respect your empirical evidence...as that was your experience. But over all a good Big man beats a good little man. In short you were not a little man. I hope that makes sense to you friend
@Craig G Of course that happens. But, the exception to the rule is not the rule. The rule being a good big guy beats a good small...There's always exceptions right?
The Shotokan guy is really at a disadvantage because he's not allowed to throw strikes at full power so Aikijutsu guy can easily take the weak strikes and grab on to him and perform his moves.
3.53 hit in my opinion. There's probably a lot of this. It have no effect because it didn't hurt. Punch & kick without pain is hard to spot, take down is easier to spot.
Hi guys, Thank you for offering this fair and informative analysis (the extended one too). What you said makes perfect sense and I'll for sure focus on some of the points you raised during my next sparring sessions. Size indeed matters and I rarely get to practice with people my size here in Japan. I do engage in more intense sparring at the Kyokushin dojo where I learn karate, and several of the people there are much closer to my size. Indeed it's a different ballgame even though for sure, grappling remains somewhat of a blind spot in that context too. As for the video that you commented on, it was indeed a very friendly light sparring. I had never met Yusuke before but we got along immediately and really had a blast exchanging ideas. I am glad that this good atmosphere and mutual respect transpires in his video. I can't remember if Yusuke mentioned it in his videos but he specifically asked me to show him things that he might be allowed to use during his Shotokan matches. I have no idea whether any of it was ever useful to him in the end but that was the general idea. :) Thanks again to you both of you for spending time looking into this. It's a lot of fun to cross-train in any martial art and it's great to receive some informed and constructive feedback. All the best Guillaume Erard
Hi Guillaume! It's really great to hear from you and I really appreciate your great points shared in this comment. I've been in a number of sparring sessions where the styles are different and it's done for the first time (I'm usually the bigger guy too) and it usually ends up being very light sparring with occasionally some awkward (in a good way) and unpredictable moments since both fighters want to make sure everything is safe and the ruleset is usually ambiguous. It's too bad some viewers take it all too seriously and think it's a death match between too styles, instead of a fun, friendly exploration and end up criticizing things which are not essential. Still it's always fun to look at these sparring sessions, share some thoughts and take some learning experiences from it! Thanks again for sharing the sparring and taking our analysis in a positive light!
Hi Guillaume, first thanks for the video, second, I apologize for possibly being rude, but about how much you weigh? You look a lot bigger that Yusuke.
@@edwhlam Yes you are right, I'm 86kg, so I'm a lot heavier than Yusuke. Incidentally, Yusuke and I had never met before he invited me to do this video and as Oliver and Rokas rightly pointed out, it was obviously not meant to be a fight necessitating a weight equivalence, but a friendly exchange of ideas.
@@guillaumeerard Thanks. Wow, Yusuke is smaller than I thought. Anyways, not every sparring match needs to be competition. Glad it was a friendly exchange.
Hi Guillaume. Surry, you are wrong on several fronts. One big topic is that a true Aikido stylist would throw around a Shotokan stylist like a dog. Understanding the essence of the art is prime, and our host couldn't Aikido himself outta bed. 😮CHEERS.
I think the conclusion is that every martial artist should put an emphasis in light free sparring (I think this the most realistic form of training while avoiding injuries) , and cross training with other disciplines. Thank you, very interesting!
Or study a style where you don't have to train light. That's one of the main reasons BJJ is so effective. Yes grappling is a subset of 'total' fighting, but the fact that you can train it with intensity is why you develop skills that work in real combat situations. Light sparring opens up the window to lots of techniques that won't work when tested with full power. I did Karate for 5 years as a teen and thought I was pretty tough because I'd always 'light spar' with adults. I was much lighter and quicker than them so it was easy to 'out point' them. But the key was 'light' sparring. When I got to college I tried some boxing and it was panic time to actually start to get hit. I realized I had 'pretend' fought in Karate and all the dancing around and glancing strikes was pretty useless when you were getting tagged with hard shots. I realized real quick that my Karate didn't hold up. But to be clear, it's not the toolset that is the problem. Kicking and punching clearly work. The problem is the training methodology. Fighting is a rough, ugly, bulling, thing. If you sanitize it to make it safe you aren't learning to fight. Light sparring is the enemy, not the key to moving forward.
@@bryantharris5914 You are right. But there always be a compromise between reality and safety. As you said, that's the great advantage of BJJ or Judo, that you grapple vs a full resisting opponent without the same risk of head injuries like in striking arts. But what I mean by light sparring is by no means the karate point sparring (I do Shotokan, I know exactly what you mean), but move, strike dodge, etc, realistically, just control your strikes power, specially to the head
fyi ... face mask. Yes, it required fund. Not suitable for national martial art. But if you're privilege, face mask allows hard punch to the face without broken nose. It's my preference, not everyone choice.
@@laperrablanca1 I completely agree. There's a definite middle ground between light point fighting sparring and an all out full contact brawl. That's where I think striking sparring should generally happen.
I think there is a sweet spot and some places might be finding it. I think tons of light sparring is fine if punctuated with a hard sparring day every few months or maybe even 2 or 3 times a year. I did boxing and was sparring too much, I did TKD where there was very light and unrealistic sparring, then I did some kickboxing and I think they had found a good middle ground there: technique for a few months, drills, light sparring and if you demonstrated competency at those other things, then sparring, the instructor and more experienced guys would sort of point out what you did wrong, right, etc. during the hard spar then focus more on those things for the light sparring and drills.
Really interesting to watch. Also I loved the fact that Oliver compared Kumite point based Karate to fencing, it has always been a point I always made why comparing it with other striking based competitive environments. Semi-contact and modern fencing have a lot in common due to the fact that representing the possible effects of the hit is left to the ruleset and not a byproduct of the strike itself.
Aikido and aikijujutsu teachings say that the hands have to be at the height of your waist. That comes from the fact that when they were developed, it was assumed that you have weapons on you at waist level and of course you have to defend them. Look for example the guard that is taught to police officers. One hand is at neck level and the other is protecting the gun. Sadly traditional martial artists don't seem to understand the reason, so they don't evolve.
Very true! However- mine definitely has! I don’t hesitate to adapt and borrow from other martial arts and systems to make my aikido effective in the modern day. We may be a minority in the Aikido community but we are definitely out there😎
I think some TMA do understand, but are more focused on preserving their art in its original form than making it a practical martial art. Its basically asian HEMA at that point.
@@captainbeaver_man903 Fair point. The problem comes in at some dojo’s who don’t tell students that this stuff while most like end up getting your ass kicked. We do it just for the art. Or- after the art has been preserved- frown on anyone colors outside the lines within their art it dojo. 😎
@@captainbeaver_man903 well, I don't completely agree. I tend to believe that the preservation of tradition is an umbrella excuse to justify any criticism Most traditional Asian martial arts claim that they also teach self defense
Yeah Oliver is great. I enjoy his and Jesse's content. The other one though likes to assume things and make statements on things hes not educated on. Why I don't subscribe to this channel.
@@18ps3anos the fact that he trained under a hack aikido teacher doesn't give him knowledge of aikijujitsu at all. He has no idea what Daito Ryu even is he's never trained it. I've suggested that he train Daito Ryu many times in his comments directly to him and he ignores it. Modern aikido uses literally no application of aiki. It's all momentum nonsense with people taking ukemi for each other. He also talks about 15 other arts in his videos that again he's never trained and thus has no direct knowledge of. He does online research and then speaks on martial arts as if he has expert experience. Having two amateur MMA fights doesn't make him a fighter either.
I cone from a brutal Muay Thai background but I have a lot of respect for Aikijujitsu and Japanese Jujitsu, both have saved my life in critical grappling situations on the street and knife attack confidence.
I mean, when difference in size and reach is this big, what are we actually comparing, really? This is a ~180cm/85kg man against a ~160cm/60kg much younger man. Although you can see that Yusuke's point sparring vices are detrimental to his performance, to say this is aikijujutsu against shotokan is quite disingenuous.
Exactly. You put someone of that size with minimal training in anything versus the shotokan guy and I feel like you would have almost the same video. The aikido guy could just barrel in at any time, fling the smaller karate guy around, and not get punched in the face because of the pulled shots.
You are all right. The Aikijujutsu guy Erard, must face with someone of his size and weight in equal degree of experience in an _striking art_ and without restrictions of style (this is: full power striking allowed) and not with a polite japanese half his size. Only then, anybody (and he) *could* called this a _sparring_ . Otherwise it is just a playground and a detrimental nonsense. The only thing Erard does _effectively_ in this "sparring" is to leave Aikido / Aikijujutsu in a worse position than it is currently in at the face of the public opinion.
Oh Rokas saw Yusuke Nagano’s sparring session! Aiki-jujitsu vs Karate to see the difference in their styles through their techniques. Still always great to hear Oliver’s point of view to study Yusuke’s movements while Rokas studies the aikido-ka’s movements
I watched the original series of videos on this collabration. The sparring video is definitely playful rather than aggresive, while the follow-up videos are more of Guillaume Erard trying to teach Yusuke Nagano some aiki-principles that could be readily integrated into Nagano's karate (without trying to "convert" Nagano to be an aiki practitioner). In the final video, Erard mentions that he cross-trains in karate; but it's clear that he was trying to focus on his aiki-arts for the video series.
Its interesting seeing the emphasis of Aikijtusu in grapling since usually you would be fighting a opponent in armour, and so it makes little sense to punch and kick directly.
@@bg4097 Not only losing, but being blocked during the draw. This is why in aikido we start training with the adversary holding our arms. When you going to draw, and the opponent hold your arms to block your action. The difference is that Aikijtusu you would break his arm, or neck. In aikido you end in the arm bar. If you look close in Aikijtusu and Aikido, all movements are based on sword cuts, because that's what the samurai trained his whole life, so is easy to adapt to unnamed combat. Muscular memory. When I trainned Aikido, before breaking my back, I found the movements easier to perfom, when imagining I was following the path of a sword in my hands.
Hey Rookas, check out some underdog sumo fights, many of them look like aikido principlies applied ;) Sumo wrestlers use kuzushi and enemy force to throw them or push them out. And this is very reasonable, if you think about rules of sumo ;)
You should definitely check out Robert Silas, a daito Ryu aikijujutsu blackbelt, who I believe also studies BJJ under one of the Gracies, I'm not sure which
A real master of the style; Aikijutsu is in Phoenix. His name is Robert Henri Vilaire. I trained with him for a short time. I stopped training because at the time I was getting my black belt in Tae Kwon Do. That was almost 30 years ago. I have seen him in action and he is incredible, a very peaceful master with about 50 years of experience. I am not sure if he is in Phoenix now. He might still be there. He goes all over the world including Japan to demonstrate his techniques.
back in the 1980s my Karate (Kenkojuko Shotokai) said the difference between Karate and TKD is they throw way to many kicks in TKD, Karate striking should be 80 - 90% Punches/ Hand techniques and only 10-20% kicks, and the main kicks for self defense would be Kicks to the Knees and Calfs, while you don't want to blast someone in the kness in sparring the calf is fair game .... not sure why a Karate Practitioner would even throw so many kicks to begin with, and Karate has its own series of takedowns from Kubi Waza (encircle the neck), to Osto Gari (outside trip) to Seio Nage (Godan Kata application) to Kata Guruma (Empi Kata Application) among others yet he the Karate guy does not attempt one takedown, its clearly not a point fighting match so the Karate guy must incorporate more Karate and not just point fighting , he needs a better understand of Karate IMO and as Oliver says the fainting
My AikiJutitsu has been useful in my Mma sparring, as I get better with kickboxing I see more AikiJutitsu opportunities. As for the BJJ part, my partner say I have great defense.. My AikiJutitsu teacher were awesome (they always emphasize punching first ahah). Ps: I think there could have been a more "equal" sparring and result might have been different
Has anyone mentioned the size difference? That plays a major part in the effectiveness of karate strikes. 5'6" 140lbs vs 6" 210lbs isn't exactly a fair fight for comparisons sake.
Thank you guys for that analysis. I too was a little confused by that video and didn't know what to make of it. Although it's worthwhile to see the whole thing.
Would you guys say that point fighting is detrimental in terms of Fighting/Self Defense? I understand that there is value to it's footwork and distance management but is it not dangerous for the muscle memory to stop and leave yourself wide open after one strike?
Great video btw. My main takeaway in their sparring match is how strength and size could overwhelm, but like what Oliver mentions I wonder how well he could pull those throws off if the Karateka wasn't pulling his punches
It has it's place. You can not jump right into full contact kumite, without having 1-2 years of point fighting. Think about it as intermediary level, preparatory. Easier to transition to full contact once you developed legwork and timing in a safer enviroment than going from 0 experience into full contact.
I think point fighting can teach fundamentals about speed, reactivity and setup. It shouldn't be an end in itself, though. Just another training method.
If that is all you do then your muscle memory will take over in real fighting. You won’t be able to follow through with your strikes because the range you are used to sparring at is not a good range to penetrate into the target or follow through with the strike. Think of the difference between a slap performed with just the finger tips compared to one where the bones of your palm is involved. Same motion, but the transfer of energy is greater.
Maybe offer the akijitsu guy to have a spar for a video that could be intresting or maybe have him spar a pro mma fighter would also be really intresting
I'm from a point fighting background and a couple times I sparred bigger guys in a continuous sparring context. It always annoyed me when I would pull my roundhouse head kicks and the guys would barrel through them. At the end you could always tell they thought they won, but the instructor would always give me credit after-the-fact. I started using more side kicks and back-kicks because having my foot flash right in front of their eyes forced them to respect it a little more.
Awesome review and good points made by both. Yusuke is throwing single techniques which is not ideal for free sparring and there is also the massive size, weight and experience difference. That being said I admire his willingness to throw himself in there, learn and grow. That is how progress happens. I would like to clarify a misconception on regarding Shotokan which is not a point based system. Point sparring is a popular competing format however there are schools that only the “steps sparring” and free sparring instead which allows trapping and throwing. In fact the first four projections the Aikidoka used are taught in karate. The first is from Kankudai (Kushanku) the second from Bassai Dai (Passai) the third is merely an ashi barai all though the way he used was also similar to the Namegaeshi or wave kick in Bassai Dai. The next throw is present at the beginning of Heian Godan (Pinan Godan).
Light sparring is a great bridge and tool for developing your martial skills. However, the focus should be on skill development, combo's, movement, positioning, etc. Whenever the focus/goal becomes scoring points, sparring tends to devolve into a game of "tag" and realistic fighting skill development leaves the room. Indeed, same goes for fencing, just compare Olympic fencing with HEMA fencing for example. A lot of Thai boxers in Thailand prefer to only spar light, they tend to not wanna spar with you anymore if you consistently go too heavy. And it's not like they're not getting anything out of a light sparring session. Their focus however is on realistic skill development. Imo "winning by rules" usually has fighting realism take a backseat, more or less determined by said rules. And obviously often for good reasons. But it can get a little ridiculous. Of course a game of tag can still net you an Olympic medal by just walking into someone's kick and getting yourself knocked out though 😊
As someone who has been sparring both light and full contact for decades, I can tell you that sparring lightly lends itself to completely unrealistic outcomes when one doesn’t understand the concept. Grappler types will always ignore or grab incoming kicks or punches because there is nothing on them and they are moving at 25% to 50% speed. Grabbing properly set up, hard and fast, incoming strikes or even avoiding such, can be extremely difficult, if not virtually impossible in real life, and in fact, it teaches teaches grapplers bad habits that can get them knocked out. Getting lightly taped is very different than actually getting smashed in the face or body, as is having your leg cracked with full power, and the reactions to such occurrences are not even remotely similar. That’s why when I light spar against grappler styles, I mainly just throw them and sweep them. If both parties understand what light sparring is for, it’s great and both parties can learn from the experience, but when they lack that understanding, it’s useless.
Great idea to ask the opinion of Oliver, instead of comment yourself. Despite His age he really knows what He is speaking about and nevertheless stays humble and respectful. Though He’s rather an MMA practitioner He really has the qualities of a Martial Artist. Btw. His comments make a lot of sense!👍🏻
Sparring means different things to different stylists. The rule set, no matter how much is agreed upon is biased against one person versus the other. Let's appreciate the exchange for what it is- a display of what each person is able to express within the boundaries (not saying that you guys aren't)! Sure, one person is better at something, and not so at another within the given game. Thanks for the analysis guys. And good on Yusuke and Guillaume for making the exchange happen!
aside from showing differences betweeen martial arts, i love seeing practitioners sparring and learning about other fighting styles, the shotokan guy is really open-minded as seen in other videos, having sparred with taekwondo guys per example, and learning some of the "tuls" (korean katas basically).
Yusuke Nagano is way too nice and timid. Understandably the Aki practitioner is double his size. This is not a good example in my opinion. Size matters.
Aikido man used techniques other than wrist locks which were the main techniques that Rokas tried against judo practicioner or mma practicioner. It is difficult to apply a wrist lock in a sparring, because you have to be VERY careful, (so slow and kind). I would like to see Rokas sparring with Aikido but focusing in chocks and sweeps. It is also true that in this video the Aikidoka man pushed the head of the karateka, so his cervical vertebra were in some danger.
Unfortunately Aikido doesn't have many sweeps (I'm only familiar with one after having trained Aikido for over a decade). I am planning to explore that option though. Chocks aren't usually taught in Aikido as well.
The karate guy is at a pretty big disadvantage size and weight wise it looks like the Aikijutsu guy has at least twenty kilos on him which means he has a big advantage when comes to clinching and any close quarters fighting in general
I'll see about that. I don't know much about him or his approach so I don't know if he's the best candidate to talk to. Hopefully I'll get to get to know him one day and I can decide then
@@MartialArtsJourney Thank you, from what I saw from his video is that his Japanese Sensei said that Aikijujutsu actually dont throw, we broke bones, he also said that every punch is Wakizashi attack to stab or to slash. That is very interesting to me.
There are some fundamental differences between Aikido and Aikijutsu. Much like the difference between boxing and Thai kickboxing... There are similarities in techniques, but very different.
I'm using a lot of Hung-Gar in my training nowadays because the forms are long and include a lot of dynamic tension, so it is a good system for conditioning the body while building up the muscle memory.
It's actually much easier to control a larger opponent in combat (for those people talking about size difference), but only when that opponent commits fully without fakes and feigns. This video was spot on regarding the karate fighter just doing one thing. Good fighters do multiple things, multiple times -- even just head fakes can throw off my aikijutsu, which is why I cross-trained. Aikijutsu alone is like fighting one-handed, and that never works against trained guys. Where I disagree in this video was regarding the qusetion of combos, seriously trained aiki people love combos and yes, they trained against them. The combo typically gives much more energy than the single punch because the torso is moving. When torsos move, Aikijutsu starts a pattern of movement that can be destructive for those who haven't trained against it.
Indeed, as Oliver mentioned it's easier to catch a kick or even a punch of the one who throws it does it lightly to protect his opponent. However Compared to Yusuke (he's 3rd DAN now I think, but it doesn't really matter) I think the Aiki-Jujitsu practitioner/master (Guillaume Gerard?) had almost twice the weight and he's very well trained, so a lot easier for him to catch and throw, even if it was for both of them to fight with the same style (a Karate-like style or a grappling+throwing style like aikido/aiki-jujitsu/judo).
Rokas, can you do a video on the creation and history of Aikido? How is it related to Judo? I can't seem to find a good relatively unbiased video on it.
This would be a more effective demonstration of either art if not for the height and weight disadvantages. It's hard to take either martial artist seriously in this situation for one has so much vast advantage size-wise over the other. It's apparent they're both serious and skilled martial artists.
I have watched your videos for a while. And I'll remind you again. My Magui bagua sifu who inherited the system - has clear documentation that Ushyba was captured and held in Manchuria in an area where there were a lot of bagua practitioners which is where some believe he got his circular ideas for aikido. I would suggest one more time. If you want to take your aikido to a higher level, then find a good bagua teacher. Either Cheng or an offshoot of Cheng, perhaps any Gao school.
I guess it was different when I took Shotokan because our teacher was a semi pro kickboxer. We didn't train for points we trained and sparred for fighting. Lots of combos ,little bouncing, little retreating more plant your feet for balance and leverage no high kicking
Really interesting video! Out of curiosity, have you considered doing an Aikido sparring against an untrained person? Maybe see if an untrained friend would be down for a video of you guys sparring? It would be very interesting to see how someone with no serious training attacks and reacts to Aikido!
There was this video that I watched about trained vs untrained involving a knife. I forgot from what channel. Probably Fight Commentary Breakdown. I can't exactly remember. In the video, there was a fight scenario of trained fighter against a knife wielding untrained opponent. Every person in their right mindset would know, even if you're good in martial arts, self defense, etc, you'd still get cut if there's an attack involving a knife. The point I'm trying to make here is the mindset. Be it the assailant, or the one defending against him/her. The untrained fighter would just stab, stab, stab, stab, and stab. Anywhere, everywhere, as long as it's his opponent's body or limbs. This was a spontaneous safe situation. The trained fighter got tagged good. He was "dead" after the fight. And I think that also applies with unarmed conflicts as well. The point I'm trying to make is, make a spontaneous, safe sparring and see what happens. Trained fighter vs untrained fighter who just keeps on swinging. Just like Oliver said, coming in "combos", if you like. And also factor the height and weight of each. I think it would be interesting to see.
@@abdillahazhar1833 I think I saw that same video! I agree with spontaneous safe sparring between a trained and untrained person. Almost every video I have seen is about one trained person versus another trained person. Personally, I have had interesting situations arise when I spar with friends who don't have much training. They do things you wouldn't expect and have taken me by surprise plenty of times. I think a lot of traditional martial arts are designed more to deal with random folks who don't know what they are dealing with rather than equally skilled opponents in an agreed upon match. I think that we often view self defense as the epitome of unarmed combat. I think of it as the lowest common denominator of combat where certain "tricks" work that would never work against a prepared enemy. Even in war, unarmed combat has never been the primary method of violence and old school jujutsu or karate serve as dirty tricks to surprise an unready enemy at close range. My background is as a 1st degree blackbelt American Kenpo Karate (Ed Parker lineage) and I regard most of thee self defense techniques as useless in the ring but a decent number could work if executed aggressively against an unready, untrained, opponent. Essentially, I see self defense as sucker-punching with style! Thank you for your detailed comment, I enjoyed learning another perspective!
@@ThatKenpoGuy Sucker punching with style. I like that! I've only practiced Karate when I was a child. I didn't go to any school or dojo. My older cousin taught me basic kihons. Helped me quite a lot during kids fisticuffs. Got into a TKD extracurricular activitiy in highschool for a few months before it went into hiatus. Now I'm stiff. I'm 36, and quite severely near-sighted but have been longing to take on Karate lessons again, and BJJ if possible. Just for my own health benefits. Haha. Back to the randomness of situations in a fight. I can agree that martial arts was designed for random people who don't know what they're getting into. I guess that's why lots of Chinese Martial Arts school back in those "glorious" days went to such lengths to protect their art so as not to be stolen. Practicing at night and only passing down "secret" techniques to certain people who were deemed "worthy". This, and quite a lot of other things are, in my humble opinion, was the one thing that deteriorated the art itself. A teacher would die, and all "hidden" knowledge went away. Or, because of limitations of their time, informations weren't passed down properly and the meaning in their movements got lost throughout the ages. Even so, I can find something quite fascinating about breaking down elements in martial arts that considers flinch responses and such. It takes so much into consideration the most basic psychological aspect of humans: pain. And that, in and on itself is supposed to be THE most basic lesson of martial arts. In this day and age, though, you gotta prepare differently, because we don't know, somewhere around the corner, somebody knows somethings about defending themselves. Even an untrained person would still have fighting experiences. Not to mention some people bringing firearms with them. Firearms are strictly regulated in my country. But machete, knives, sickles and such are quite common. They're daily used tools in everyday life. Also mob mentality. You gotta prepare for all sorts of situations.
Pressure sparring is essential to understanding body dynamics. It's why fighting should not be based on style, but body type. It's like Rokas for his body type should be essentially a great striker. He is long. He should visit Wonder Boy's camp. For his take down style he should focus on sweeps, or the uchi mata because his long arms can grip the back and ankle picks. For his aikido, honestly, because you need to be in close to get it, with long legs you are dangerous from the bottom, he should be using it in on the ground, he would be able to control well from his back because of his body type. I can see it a challenge to hit these techniques standing up, without speed and power. And that is the point balance, speed and power. Everybody wants to be Bruce lee, but no one wants to train like Bruce Lee. And no technique will work well unless these three areas are sharpened first. And there is very few martial arts that truly teach all three balance, speed and power -- Combat Sambo is on that list. Usually they teach one or two, but not all three. To believe that technique can be used without those three, is a tough journey. Pick Martial arts that will hone those skills and you will foundation. Once you have foundation, you can learn what you want at a later time and it will come easier.
@@MartialArtsJourney Rokus, your body type would do beautiful with wado Ryu karate, welcomematt style of judo, and ballet or waltz dancing. I believe those arts compliment your body that you would enjoy them and excel quickly. It will formulate your body movements. From those foundations, I think you could really figure out a functional aikido, and excel very quickly in any martial art, there after. Lanky fighters, need to dance well. Just my two cents.
¿ How can I find more info on what is happening at timestamp 0:55 and 1:40? Can't find more info about hard Akijitsu training, perhaps I'm not searching with the correct terms? Do I need to be searching in Japanese?
I think aikijutjitsu has a window of opportunity in a fight. It's shown in that video of course. Not everyone attacks in combination look a Stephen Thompson. Even boxers throw out jabs.. I would like that guy to fight someone his weight more to give a better gauge of it's effectiveness
The acknowledgments of when a clean hit lands in a light sparring like this makes a difference. It looks like they were a little unclear when to disengage when a strike lands. In these kinds of randori sparring sessions you must be clear and reasonable about what is a clean hit. I think that's the karate guy would fair better after a 2nd time around. However looks like size aside the other guy has more skills.
In regards to the comment that traditional martial arts don't engage in sparring, that wasn't always the case , back in the late 70s early 80s we did a lot of sparring in American Kenpo Karate (my first martial art) in Texas anyway, though they limited us on our hand techniques to the head but not too much with kicks to the head, ironically.
I think that is nice for aikido scenary...much people complain about this style,in the end aikido was made more for self evolve...aikijujutsu by other hand have much more fighting elements is like kendo vs kenjutsu,now personaly i think that the karate fighter should be equal on size it will depend of the fighter skill.
In a real full throttle karate fight, once they grab you you can use elbows, knees, head and neck grabs…Though it’s more like Judo/Japanese Ju-Jitsu, most karate styles teach to use osoto gari or the very easy, very effective “front leg bar” which is a throw achieved combining a sort of stretched arm blow+a sort of low rear ushiro geri at the same time…For Karate guys throwing is rare, but you do throw people because many times it’s the only fast way out of risking a wrestling situation. I highly doubt one experienced karateka would be so defensive and passive before one who is trying to pin him down…Let alone the Aiki-guy is twice the size…
I like this video, but I can’t help but feel the laundry list of excuses is kind of a little misguided. “Oh aikido guy can go full force and karate guy can’t” I mean let’s think about this. If the big guy went full force with his size difference it would have been different. He doesn’t spike the karate guy and doesn’t make him have uncontrolled falls, and in return the karate guy doesn’t go for knockouts, so that seems misleading to claim one is 100% while the other isn’t. Most aikijutsu falls are designed to make a person land on their spinal column or head, that would be the 100%. Most strikes are meant to really put someone out, that would be 100%. Both these nice gentlemen are keeping it light and fun. Which a lot of Muay Thai schools emphasize because it allows for learning without people getting destroyed from 100% and therefore limiting their learning from having to stop from injury. Worth mentioning the background of this sparring match as well. The karate guy (really nice instructor by the way just can’t remember his name) was being critical of an aikido demonstration video saying he could easily handle the style (playfully) then behold days or weeks later he gets to spar an aikido guy. There are a lot of things we can take from this, but the excuses are kind of mute. It’s two respectful instructors testing each other and keeping it fun and educational. That’s why later you see the karate guy adapt and start using angles.
There is a size disparity. The Aikijujitsu practitioner is not afraid of of the smaller Karateka. There are weigh classes. I think had their been similar… it would look totally different.
In my own martial arts journey I came across Jisei Dojo in Lisbon/Portugal, apparently the "sensei" there practiced Tokitsu Ryu and Kenjutsu, and develuped his own Jisei Budo, I would be interested in your take on them, since I felt like it fits the fake martial arts narrative, specially now after training Muay Tai for a couple of years, the "sensei" was very pretentious, going so far as, in the few sessions I participated in, claiming that he was able to easily submit a Jiujitsu European champion (he seemed to at least believe what he was claiming, but I'm guessing that if this happened, the guy just let him win), even his Kenjutsu (which I was interested in more than his budoh) seemed unpolished, but I don't know much about kenjutsu. A while back I got reminded of this dojo because of an interview, and his moves seem even more unrealistic now than when I tryed it. If this interests you and you have the time I would be in awe of your take on it. Jisei Budoh only exists in Portugal so Im not sure it would be an interesting video, and it seems Tokitsu Ryu is a bit more international, but is also always the same guy teaching it.
Low sideways kicks are major problem. Very easy to be blocked and front kick the standing leg. So you down on the ground. Or leg to be punched. If kick harder? Simply will fall harder on the ground.
Ya the size difference is massive. If I was coaching that karate guy I would have said to calf kick,leg kick as long as he’s not getting the kicks checked and since he has bladed stance, use that side kick to his opponents lead leg Bruce Lee style. If he does check see if you can switch to inside leg kicks without getting checked. Kicking high is going to get you countered, and chances of landing a high kick are low. Karate guy needs some clinch training, but no body wants to have to clinch with a person significantly heavier/ taller than them. I thought I saw an opportunity to frame, from which which would be an opportunity to head kick or knee. But with the experience gap in this area probably better to avoid. Just my thoughts.
The description should be using the term Aikijujutsu, not Aikijutsu (based on the title affixed to the original video). With all due respects, if you are to refer to Daito-ryu in your video and provide a description for the practice, I would suggest you go beyond reciting what is often uttered by individuals with no real knowledge of the tradition.
I've never done aikido, but if I'm facing a guy half my size my aikido would work like a charm then. Next time find even a smaller karateka and pit him against Irish step dancer so that he could be combo-stomped neck-deep into ground.
5:51 - I feel this is a little unfair to fencing: with the kind of swords used in fencing, if they were using live blades rather than the sort used in the sport, someone would end up dead. In point Karate, there's very little risk of a fatal blow, given that they're used to just tapping an opponent with fist or foot.
It's has been said that Ueshiba's Aiki-Jujitsu transformed into Aikido after his time spent in China during the war where he learnt Ba Gua, and that it would not be seen in a good light, due to the relationship between Japan and China, if he disclosed that his art was intimately influenced by a Chinese martial art.
It's definitely not much of a test. Erard was clearly being gentle and barely scratched the surface of techniques available to him. Nagano is just too tiny and inexperienced to present a challenge. Erard was most likely afraid to hurt him. If he knows Tenshin Aikido's hand deflections, then he could definitely handle combinations too. As for defusing full speed attacks, fighters like Cung Le did this routinely during his career. He'd catch a full speed attack, then slam them like a meteor. This guy could totally do that with Daito-Ryu. A bit more sparring at an MMA gym and I bet he'd do well.
What really jumped out to me was how frozen those kicks left the Karate point fighter. They gave large windows for the larger opponent to approach. He needed to keep moving and the kicking was really counterproductive to managing the distance. He got clinched or taken down on virtually every kick. The single strike and retreat style was very 'point' based and also wasn't helpful for dictating the fight.
It’s because it is light sparring. Realistically If he used full force the big guy wouldn’t catch it because the kick would go through him and he had less time to react
The real test would be if the fighters were really trying to hit one another like in MMA. It's easy enough for the aiki jujitsu guy to grab when the karate guy isn't going at full speed with full power. Everyone has a plan until they're punched/ kicked in the face.
DAITORYU Aikijujutsu is not Aikido ueshiba soften the art to control your opponent but DAITORYU was created to maim or kill your opponent, and it can match any martial art out there, remember it wasn't created to be a sport but it was created to main and kill your opponent which is applicable today as it was 900 years ago also remember it was the samurai martial art
Aikijutsu and Aikido are NOT the same. sorry, I respect what you are trying to do. But Aikido has a religious and culty vibe and it is spreading regrettably. People look for different things in MA and that's ok. As long you don't become delusional as it happens too often with martial arts that don't spar. Aikijutsu used to be one aspect of Bujutsu and other forms of martial arts. But Aikido is like reading the last 40 pages of a 900 pages book and then making a sequel.
Aiki ju jitsui defends against multiple people attacks at the same time as well as multiple attacks attacks from the same person, some aiki ju jitsui are different and not so Street wise also some use pre- emptive defence and attacks. Different styles give different results.
Check out the channel of the original AikiJutsu vs Karate video: ruclips.net/user/KarateDojowaKu
To learn more about Oliver Enkamp and his pro MMA career check out his social media here: www.oliverenkamp.com
@oliverenkamp on Instagram and facebook.com/oliverenkampMMA for Facebook
If you want to see my Aikido vs Judo sparring click here: ruclips.net/video/InqR17oQ8t4/видео.html
This has far less to do with styles and more to do with size. The Aikido guy weighs in around 220 pounds. The Karate guy about 150 pounds. This proves NOTHING. Aikido is and always will be a J O K E
@Craig G Why do you think they have weight classes in combat sports? And they always have. A good big man beats a good little man all the time. Do you know why? The little dude has to deal with the big dudes size. He gets hit ...his neck and jaw are smaller...lights out. The big guy gets hit by the little guy and ....not so bad he's felt far worse. Don't get me wrong a good little guy can beat an big average person....Size alone is an incredible force to overcome though.
@Craig G Well, first of all you competed at LH. That means that you were not giving up that much weight to a HW. And it's less of a percentage of the total. I'm just using raw numbers, but if a HW was say 200 pounds and you weighed 180, you were only giving up 10% in body weight. So you were not quite small enough to have a major size disadvantage, and you were fast enough to make up for it. A true little man would not be able to sustain continued punches from that 200 pounder. So I respect your empirical evidence...as that was your experience. But over all a good Big man beats a good little man. In short you were not a little man. I hope that makes sense to you friend
@Craig G Of course that happens. But, the exception to the rule is not the rule. The rule being a good big guy beats a good small...There's always exceptions right?
Hey! I know that dude 🤪
Yeah, the blond one totally looks like he could be your brother.
Yeah looks almost like you're family
Never gets old.
I'm a 6'4" black guy... but I identify as his brother
Aiki jujutsu honestly looks like sport pencak silat here
The Shotokan guy is really at a disadvantage because he's not allowed to throw strikes at full power so Aikijutsu guy can easily take the weak strikes and grab on to him and perform his moves.
Yeah this was my take too, karate guy was faster and if he was striking with force the bigger guy wouldn't be walking through the strikes.
That and the fact he’s literally a foot taller lol
@@m.b.593 That too lol
I agree
3.53 hit in my opinion.
There's probably a lot of this.
It have no effect because it didn't hurt.
Punch & kick without pain is hard to spot, take down is easier to spot.
Hi guys,
Thank you for offering this fair and informative analysis (the extended one too). What you said makes perfect sense and I'll for sure focus on some of the points you raised during my next sparring sessions. Size indeed matters and I rarely get to practice with people my size here in Japan. I do engage in more intense sparring at the Kyokushin dojo where I learn karate, and several of the people there are much closer to my size. Indeed it's a different ballgame even though for sure, grappling remains somewhat of a blind spot in that context too.
As for the video that you commented on, it was indeed a very friendly light sparring. I had never met Yusuke before but we got along immediately and really had a blast exchanging ideas. I am glad that this good atmosphere and mutual respect transpires in his video. I can't remember if Yusuke mentioned it in his videos but he specifically asked me to show him things that he might be allowed to use during his Shotokan matches. I have no idea whether any of it was ever useful to him in the end but that was the general idea. :)
Thanks again to you both of you for spending time looking into this. It's a lot of fun to cross-train in any martial art and it's great to receive some informed and constructive feedback.
All the best
Guillaume Erard
Hi Guillaume! It's really great to hear from you and I really appreciate your great points shared in this comment. I've been in a number of sparring sessions where the styles are different and it's done for the first time (I'm usually the bigger guy too) and it usually ends up being very light sparring with occasionally some awkward (in a good way) and unpredictable moments since both fighters want to make sure everything is safe and the ruleset is usually ambiguous. It's too bad some viewers take it all too seriously and think it's a death match between too styles, instead of a fun, friendly exploration and end up criticizing things which are not essential. Still it's always fun to look at these sparring sessions, share some thoughts and take some learning experiences from it! Thanks again for sharing the sparring and taking our analysis in a positive light!
Hi Guillaume, first thanks for the video, second, I apologize for possibly being rude, but about how much you weigh? You look a lot bigger that Yusuke.
@@edwhlam Yes you are right, I'm 86kg, so I'm a lot heavier than Yusuke. Incidentally, Yusuke and I had never met before he invited me to do this video and as Oliver and Rokas rightly pointed out, it was obviously not meant to be a fight necessitating a weight equivalence, but a friendly exchange of ideas.
@@guillaumeerard Thanks. Wow, Yusuke is smaller than I thought. Anyways, not every sparring match needs to be competition. Glad it was a friendly exchange.
Hi Guillaume. Surry, you are wrong on several fronts. One big topic is that a true Aikido stylist would throw around a Shotokan stylist like a dog. Understanding the essence of the art is prime, and our host couldn't Aikido himself outta bed. 😮CHEERS.
I think the conclusion is that every martial artist should put an emphasis in light free sparring (I think this the most realistic form of training while avoiding injuries) , and cross training with other disciplines. Thank you, very interesting!
Or study a style where you don't have to train light. That's one of the main reasons BJJ is so effective. Yes grappling is a subset of 'total' fighting, but the fact that you can train it with intensity is why you develop skills that work in real combat situations. Light sparring opens up the window to lots of techniques that won't work when tested with full power.
I did Karate for 5 years as a teen and thought I was pretty tough because I'd always 'light spar' with adults. I was much lighter and quicker than them so it was easy to 'out point' them. But the key was 'light' sparring. When I got to college I tried some boxing and it was panic time to actually start to get hit. I realized I had 'pretend' fought in Karate and all the dancing around and glancing strikes was pretty useless when you were getting tagged with hard shots. I realized real quick that my Karate didn't hold up.
But to be clear, it's not the toolset that is the problem. Kicking and punching clearly work. The problem is the training methodology. Fighting is a rough, ugly, bulling, thing. If you sanitize it to make it safe you aren't learning to fight. Light sparring is the enemy, not the key to moving forward.
@@bryantharris5914 You are right. But there always be a compromise between reality and safety. As you said, that's the great advantage of BJJ or Judo, that you grapple vs a full resisting opponent without the same risk of head injuries like in striking arts. But what I mean by light sparring is by no means the karate point sparring (I do Shotokan, I know exactly what you mean), but move, strike dodge, etc, realistically, just control your strikes power, specially to the head
fyi ... face mask.
Yes, it required fund. Not suitable for national martial art.
But if you're privilege, face mask allows hard punch to the face without broken nose.
It's my preference, not everyone choice.
@@laperrablanca1 I completely agree. There's a definite middle ground between light point fighting sparring and an all out full contact brawl. That's where I think striking sparring should generally happen.
I think there is a sweet spot and some places might be finding it. I think tons of light sparring is fine if punctuated with a hard sparring day every few months or maybe even 2 or 3 times a year. I did boxing and was sparring too much, I did TKD where there was very light and unrealistic sparring, then I did some kickboxing and I think they had found a good middle ground there: technique for a few months, drills, light sparring and if you demonstrated competency at those other things, then sparring, the instructor and more experienced guys would sort of point out what you did wrong, right, etc. during the hard spar then focus more on those things for the light sparring and drills.
Really interesting to watch. Also I loved the fact that Oliver compared Kumite point based Karate to fencing, it has always been a point I always made why comparing it with other striking based competitive environments.
Semi-contact and modern fencing have a lot in common due to the fact that representing the possible effects of the hit is left to the ruleset and not a byproduct of the strike itself.
See you often under these types of martial arts videos.
@@junichiroyamashita I love and practice(d) many martial arts :-)
Aikido and aikijujutsu teachings say that the hands have to be at the height of your waist. That comes from the fact that when they were developed, it was assumed that you have weapons on you at waist level and of course you have to defend them.
Look for example the guard that is taught to police officers. One hand is at neck level and the other is protecting the gun.
Sadly traditional martial artists don't seem to understand the reason, so they don't evolve.
Very true! However- mine definitely has! I don’t hesitate to adapt and borrow from other martial arts and systems to make my aikido effective in the modern day. We may be a minority in the Aikido community but we are definitely out there😎
I think some TMA do understand, but are more focused on preserving their art in its original form than making it a practical martial art. Its basically asian HEMA at that point.
@@captainbeaver_man903 Fair point. The problem comes in at some dojo’s who don’t tell students that this stuff while most like end up getting your ass kicked. We do it just for the art. Or- after the art has been preserved- frown on anyone colors outside the lines within their art it dojo. 😎
@@jasonrudolph491 100% agree.
@@captainbeaver_man903 well, I don't completely agree. I tend to believe that the preservation of tradition is an umbrella excuse to justify any criticism
Most traditional Asian martial arts claim that they also teach self defense
Ah yes, Dan The Wolfman's school of Aikido - most effective against polite Asian dudes half your size.
Hahahahahahah!
Wow lol
That's not the Dan
Yusuke wasn't even hitting for real too.
Yep. Pretty common in an aikido video in some way.
I love how humble Oliver Enkamp is in this video.
This is how a martial artist should be.
Yeah Oliver is great. I enjoy his and Jesse's content. The other one though likes to assume things and make statements on things hes not educated on. Why I don't subscribe to this channel.
@@billgober2 Could you share an example?
@@18ps3anos the fact that he trained under a hack aikido teacher doesn't give him knowledge of aikijujitsu at all. He has no idea what Daito Ryu even is he's never trained it. I've suggested that he train Daito Ryu many times in his comments directly to him and he ignores it. Modern aikido uses literally no application of aiki. It's all momentum nonsense with people taking ukemi for each other. He also talks about 15 other arts in his videos that again he's never trained and thus has no direct knowledge of. He does online research and then speaks on martial arts as if he has expert experience. Having two amateur MMA fights doesn't make him a fighter either.
100% agree.
I cone from a brutal Muay Thai background but I have a lot of respect for Aikijujitsu and Japanese Jujitsu, both have saved my life in critical grappling situations on the street and knife attack confidence.
I mean, when difference in size and reach is this big, what are we actually comparing, really?
This is a ~180cm/85kg man against a ~160cm/60kg much younger man.
Although you can see that Yusuke's point sparring vices are detrimental to his performance, to say this is aikijujutsu against shotokan is quite disingenuous.
Exactly. You put someone of that size with minimal training in anything versus the shotokan guy and I feel like you would have almost the same video. The aikido guy could just barrel in at any time, fling the smaller karate guy around, and not get punched in the face because of the pulled shots.
Agreed. I was scrolling down the comments, and you were the first one to point out the major size difference.
You are all right. The Aikijujutsu guy Erard, must face with someone of his size and weight in equal degree of experience in an _striking art_ and without restrictions of style (this is: full power striking allowed) and not with a polite japanese half his size. Only then, anybody (and he) *could* called this a _sparring_ . Otherwise it is just a playground and a detrimental nonsense. The only thing Erard does _effectively_ in this "sparring" is to leave Aikido / Aikijujutsu in a worse position than it is currently in at the face of the public opinion.
60 kg is being generous.
Unless it's against like a phenomenally talented grappler like Shinya Aoki, that size disadvantage is definitely going to favor the larger guy.
Oh Rokas saw Yusuke Nagano’s sparring session! Aiki-jujitsu vs Karate to see the difference in their styles through their techniques. Still always great to hear Oliver’s point of view to study Yusuke’s movements while Rokas studies the aikido-ka’s movements
Great stuff, I like you guys as a team!
The critique was spot on IMO. More collaboration please
More collabs with Oliver is on the way!
I watched the original series of videos on this collabration. The sparring video is definitely playful rather than aggresive, while the follow-up videos are more of Guillaume Erard trying to teach Yusuke Nagano some aiki-principles that could be readily integrated into Nagano's karate (without trying to "convert" Nagano to be an aiki practitioner). In the final video, Erard mentions that he cross-trains in karate; but it's clear that he was trying to focus on his aiki-arts for the video series.
Yusuke is officially “ the Karate 🥋 Guy “ 😁
Its interesting seeing the emphasis of Aikijtusu in grapling since usually you would be fighting a opponent in armour, and so it makes little sense to punch and kick directly.
Exactly. It was al about losing your Sword and struggling to fight wearing the armor,etc
Therefore, ground techniques were essential for Samurai
@@bg4097 Not only losing, but being blocked during the draw.
This is why in aikido we start training with the adversary holding our arms. When you going to draw, and the opponent hold your arms to block your action.
The difference is that Aikijtusu you would break his arm, or neck. In aikido you end in the arm bar.
If you look close in Aikijtusu and Aikido, all movements are based on sword cuts, because that's what the samurai trained his whole life, so is easy to adapt to unnamed combat. Muscular memory.
When I trainned Aikido, before breaking my back, I found the movements easier to perfom, when imagining I was following the path of a sword in my hands.
Hey Rookas, check out some underdog sumo fights, many of them look like aikido principlies applied ;) Sumo wrestlers use kuzushi and enemy force to throw them or push them out. And this is very reasonable, if you think about rules of sumo ;)
Yes! Iirc, Ueshiba actually trained in Sumo as a youth, and it's how he got those principles.
Kuzushi is also quite prevalent in judo.
@@michaelterrell5061 hell yeah
Roka thank you once again for both the documentary and useful information. God bless you and your family!
6:10 is a great clip of Qi La La who's a Wing chun practitioner and an amazing example of how to develop TMA
Qi La La is awesome!
Great commentary. Obviously size was an issue but great techniques
I am so happy that you are working with the enkamp brothers, you guys are awesome
You should definitely check out Robert Silas, a daito Ryu aikijujutsu blackbelt, who I believe also studies BJJ under one of the Gracies, I'm not sure which
A real master of the style; Aikijutsu is in Phoenix. His name is Robert Henri Vilaire. I trained with him for a short time. I stopped training because at the time I was getting my black belt in Tae Kwon Do. That was almost 30 years ago. I have seen him in action and he is incredible, a very peaceful master with about 50 years of experience. I am not sure if he is in Phoenix now. He might still be there. He goes all over the world including Japan to demonstrate his techniques.
back in the 1980s my Karate (Kenkojuko Shotokai) said the difference between Karate and TKD is they throw way to many kicks in TKD, Karate striking should be 80 - 90% Punches/ Hand techniques and only 10-20% kicks, and the main kicks for self defense would be Kicks to the Knees and Calfs, while you don't want to blast someone in the kness in sparring the calf is fair game .... not sure why a Karate Practitioner would even throw so many kicks to begin with, and Karate has its own series of takedowns from Kubi Waza (encircle the neck), to Osto Gari (outside trip) to Seio Nage (Godan Kata application) to Kata Guruma (Empi Kata Application) among others yet he the Karate guy does not attempt one takedown, its clearly not a point fighting match so the Karate guy must incorporate more Karate and not just point fighting , he needs a better understand of Karate IMO and as Oliver says the fainting
My AikiJutitsu has been useful in my Mma sparring, as I get better with kickboxing I see more AikiJutitsu opportunities. As for the BJJ part, my partner say I have great defense.. My AikiJutitsu teacher were awesome (they always emphasize punching first ahah). Ps: I think there could have been a more "equal" sparring and result might have been different
Has anyone mentioned the size difference? That plays a major part in the effectiveness of karate strikes. 5'6" 140lbs vs 6" 210lbs isn't exactly a fair fight for comparisons sake.
I have, but in metric :D
@@Plantaman lol
Thank you guys for that analysis. I too was a little confused by that video and didn't know what to make of it. Although it's worthwhile to see the whole thing.
At first I was really impressed by that video, but the more I watched the more it seemed like bad sparring practices against a much smaller opponent
Bullying. lol
Yea. Good stuff guys. I like ol Oliver encamp as well. Both brothers.
I miss my big bro.
Would you guys say that point fighting is detrimental in terms of Fighting/Self Defense?
I understand that there is value to it's footwork and distance management but is it not dangerous for the muscle memory to stop and leave yourself wide open after one strike?
Great video btw.
My main takeaway in their sparring match is how strength and size could overwhelm, but like what Oliver mentions I wonder how well he could pull those throws off if the Karateka wasn't pulling his punches
It has it's place. You can not jump right into full contact kumite, without having 1-2 years of point fighting. Think about it as intermediary level, preparatory. Easier to transition to full contact once you developed legwork and timing in a safer enviroment than going from 0 experience into full contact.
I think it can offer valuable skills, but it shouldn't be the only type of training in one's arsenal.
I think point fighting can teach fundamentals about speed, reactivity and setup. It shouldn't be an end in itself, though. Just another training method.
If that is all you do then your muscle memory will take over in real fighting. You won’t be able to follow through with your strikes because the range you are used to sparring at is not a good range to penetrate into the target or follow through with the strike. Think of the difference between a slap performed with just the finger tips compared to one where the bones of your palm is involved. Same motion, but the transfer of energy is greater.
Maybe offer the akijitsu guy to have a spar for a video that could be intresting or maybe have him spar a pro mma fighter would also be really intresting
Thats stupid, is like trying to apply history knowledge to solve a math problem. Aikido and Aikijujutsu were never meant to be in MMA match.
I'm from a point fighting background and a couple times I sparred bigger guys in a continuous sparring context. It always annoyed me when I would pull my roundhouse head kicks and the guys would barrel through them. At the end you could always tell they thought they won, but the instructor would always give me credit after-the-fact. I started using more side kicks and back-kicks because having my foot flash right in front of their eyes forced them to respect it a little more.
Awesome review and good points made by both. Yusuke is throwing single techniques which is not ideal for free sparring and there is also the massive size, weight and experience difference. That being said I admire his willingness to throw himself in there, learn and grow. That is how progress happens.
I would like to clarify a misconception on regarding Shotokan which is not a point based system. Point sparring is a popular competing format however there are schools that only the “steps sparring” and free sparring instead which allows trapping and throwing.
In fact the first four projections the Aikidoka used are taught in karate. The first is from Kankudai (Kushanku) the second from Bassai Dai (Passai) the third is merely an ashi barai all though the way he used was also similar to the Namegaeshi or wave kick in Bassai Dai. The next throw is present at the beginning of Heian Godan (Pinan Godan).
Excellent breakdown of this video and how both are different fighters
Nice video bro, I wasn’t aware about Aikijutsu until I watched this video. Keep up the good work
Light sparring is a great bridge and tool for developing your martial skills. However, the focus should be on skill development, combo's, movement, positioning, etc. Whenever the focus/goal becomes scoring points, sparring tends to devolve into a game of "tag" and realistic fighting skill development leaves the room. Indeed, same goes for fencing, just compare Olympic fencing with HEMA fencing for example.
A lot of Thai boxers in Thailand prefer to only spar light, they tend to not wanna spar with you anymore if you consistently go too heavy. And it's not like they're not getting anything out of a light sparring session. Their focus however is on realistic skill development.
Imo "winning by rules" usually has fighting realism take a backseat, more or less determined by said rules. And obviously often for good reasons. But it can get a little ridiculous. Of course a game of tag can still net you an Olympic medal by just walking into someone's kick and getting yourself knocked out though 😊
As someone who has been sparring both light and full contact for decades, I can tell you that sparring lightly lends itself to completely unrealistic outcomes when one doesn’t understand the concept. Grappler types will always ignore or grab incoming kicks or punches because there is nothing on them and they are moving at 25% to 50% speed. Grabbing properly set up, hard and fast, incoming strikes or even avoiding such, can be extremely difficult, if not virtually impossible in real life, and in fact, it teaches teaches grapplers bad habits that can get them knocked out. Getting lightly taped is very different than actually getting smashed in the face or body, as is having your leg cracked with full power, and the reactions to such occurrences are not even remotely similar. That’s why when I light spar against grappler styles, I mainly just throw them and sweep them. If both parties understand what light sparring is for, it’s great and both parties can learn from the experience, but when they lack that understanding, it’s useless.
Great idea to ask the opinion of Oliver, instead of comment yourself. Despite His age he really knows what He is speaking about and nevertheless stays humble and respectful. Though He’s rather an MMA practitioner He really has the qualities of a Martial Artist. Btw. His comments make a lot of sense!👍🏻
Sparring means different things to different stylists.
The rule set, no matter how much is agreed upon is biased against one person versus the other.
Let's appreciate the exchange for what it is- a display of what each person is able to express within the boundaries (not saying that you guys aren't)!
Sure, one person is better at something, and not so at another within the given game.
Thanks for the analysis guys.
And good on Yusuke and Guillaume for making the exchange happen!
aside from showing differences betweeen martial arts, i love seeing practitioners sparring and learning about other fighting styles, the shotokan guy is really open-minded as seen in other videos, having sparred with taekwondo guys per example, and learning some of the "tuls" (korean katas basically).
The MMA guest is pretty relaxed, has a good attitude and valid insights.
Yusuke Nagano is way too nice and timid. Understandably the Aki practitioner is double his size. This is not a good example in my opinion. Size matters.
Aikido man used techniques other than wrist locks which were the main techniques that Rokas tried against judo practicioner or mma practicioner. It is difficult to apply a wrist lock in a sparring, because you have to be VERY careful, (so slow and kind). I would like to see Rokas sparring with Aikido but focusing in chocks and sweeps. It is also true that in this video the Aikidoka man pushed the head of the karateka, so his cervical vertebra were in some danger.
Unfortunately Aikido doesn't have many sweeps (I'm only familiar with one after having trained Aikido for over a decade). I am planning to explore that option though. Chocks aren't usually taught in Aikido as well.
@@MartialArtsJourney .Ah, ok I didn't know. Thank you for your answer!
The karate guy is at a pretty big disadvantage size and weight wise it looks like the Aikijutsu guy has at least twenty kilos on him which means he has a big advantage when comes to clinching and any close quarters fighting in general
Gaulimme Erard is a good Aikijujutsu. Can you interview him?
I'll see about that. I don't know much about him or his approach so I don't know if he's the best candidate to talk to. Hopefully I'll get to get to know him one day and I can decide then
@@MartialArtsJourney Thank you, from what I saw from his video is that his Japanese Sensei said that Aikijujutsu actually dont throw, we broke bones, he also said that every punch is Wakizashi attack to stab or to slash. That is very interesting to me.
There are some fundamental differences between Aikido and Aikijutsu.
Much like the difference between boxing and Thai kickboxing...
There are similarities in techniques, but very different.
I'm using a lot of Hung-Gar in my training nowadays because the forms are long and include a lot of dynamic tension, so it is a good system for conditioning the body while building up the muscle memory.
It's actually much easier to control a larger opponent in combat (for those people talking about size difference), but only when that opponent commits fully without fakes and feigns. This video was spot on regarding the karate fighter just doing one thing. Good fighters do multiple things, multiple times -- even just head fakes can throw off my aikijutsu, which is why I cross-trained. Aikijutsu alone is like fighting one-handed, and that never works against trained guys. Where I disagree in this video was regarding the qusetion of combos, seriously trained aiki people love combos and yes, they trained against them. The combo typically gives much more energy than the single punch because the torso is moving. When torsos move, Aikijutsu starts a pattern of movement that can be destructive for those who haven't trained against it.
Indeed, as Oliver mentioned it's easier to catch a kick or even a punch of the one who throws it does it lightly to protect his opponent. However Compared to Yusuke (he's 3rd DAN now I think, but it doesn't really matter) I think the Aiki-Jujitsu practitioner/master (Guillaume Gerard?) had almost twice the weight and he's very well trained, so a lot easier for him to catch and throw, even if it was for both of them to fight with the same style (a Karate-like style or a grappling+throwing style like aikido/aiki-jujitsu/judo).
Rokas, can you do a video on the creation and history of Aikido? How is it related to Judo? I can't seem to find a good relatively unbiased video on it.
good analysys. Thought almost the same as I saw the video
This would be a more effective demonstration of either art if not for the height and weight disadvantages. It's hard to take either martial artist seriously in this situation for one has so much vast advantage size-wise over the other.
It's apparent they're both serious and skilled martial artists.
I have watched your videos for a while. And I'll remind you again. My Magui bagua sifu who inherited the system - has clear documentation that Ushyba was captured and held in Manchuria in an area where there were a lot of bagua practitioners which is where some believe he got his circular ideas for aikido. I would suggest one more time. If you want to take your aikido to a higher level, then find a good bagua teacher. Either Cheng or an offshoot of Cheng, perhaps any Gao school.
I guess it was different when I took Shotokan because our teacher was a semi pro kickboxer. We didn't train for points we trained and sparred for fighting. Lots of combos ,little bouncing, little retreating more plant your feet for balance and leverage no high kicking
Really interesting video! Out of curiosity, have you considered doing an Aikido sparring against an untrained person? Maybe see if an untrained friend would be down for a video of you guys sparring? It would be very interesting to see how someone with no serious training attacks and reacts to Aikido!
There was this video that I watched about trained vs untrained involving a knife. I forgot from what channel. Probably Fight Commentary Breakdown. I can't exactly remember.
In the video, there was a fight scenario of trained fighter against a knife wielding untrained opponent. Every person in their right mindset would know, even if you're good in martial arts, self defense, etc, you'd still get cut if there's an attack involving a knife. The point I'm trying to make here is the mindset. Be it the assailant, or the one defending against him/her. The untrained fighter would just stab, stab, stab, stab, and stab. Anywhere, everywhere, as long as it's his opponent's body or limbs. This was a spontaneous safe situation. The trained fighter got tagged good. He was "dead" after the fight. And I think that also applies with unarmed conflicts as well.
The point I'm trying to make is, make a spontaneous, safe sparring and see what happens. Trained fighter vs untrained fighter who just keeps on swinging. Just like Oliver said, coming in "combos", if you like. And also factor the height and weight of each. I think it would be interesting to see.
@@abdillahazhar1833 I think I saw that same video! I agree with spontaneous safe sparring between a trained and untrained person. Almost every video I have seen is about one trained person versus another trained person.
Personally, I have had interesting situations arise when I spar with friends who don't have much training. They do things you wouldn't expect and have taken me by surprise plenty of times. I think a lot of traditional martial arts are designed more to deal with random folks who don't know what they are dealing with rather than equally skilled opponents in an agreed upon match.
I think that we often view self defense as the epitome of unarmed combat. I think of it as the lowest common denominator of combat where certain "tricks" work that would never work against a prepared enemy. Even in war, unarmed combat has never been the primary method of violence and old school jujutsu or karate serve as dirty tricks to surprise an unready enemy at close range.
My background is as a 1st degree blackbelt American Kenpo Karate (Ed Parker lineage) and I regard most of thee self defense techniques as useless in the ring but a decent number could work if executed aggressively against an unready, untrained, opponent. Essentially, I see self defense as sucker-punching with style! Thank you for your detailed comment, I enjoyed learning another perspective!
@@ThatKenpoGuy Sucker punching with style. I like that!
I've only practiced Karate when I was a child. I didn't go to any school or dojo. My older cousin taught me basic kihons. Helped me quite a lot during kids fisticuffs. Got into a TKD extracurricular activitiy in highschool for a few months before it went into hiatus. Now I'm stiff. I'm 36, and quite severely near-sighted but have been longing to take on Karate lessons again, and BJJ if possible. Just for my own health benefits. Haha.
Back to the randomness of situations in a fight. I can agree that martial arts was designed for random people who don't know what they're getting into. I guess that's why lots of Chinese Martial Arts school back in those "glorious" days went to such lengths to protect their art so as not to be stolen. Practicing at night and only passing down "secret" techniques to certain people who were deemed "worthy". This, and quite a lot of other things are, in my humble opinion, was the one thing that deteriorated the art itself. A teacher would die, and all "hidden" knowledge went away. Or, because of limitations of their time, informations weren't passed down properly and the meaning in their movements got lost throughout the ages. Even so, I can find something quite fascinating about breaking down elements in martial arts that considers flinch responses and such. It takes so much into consideration the most basic psychological aspect of humans: pain. And that, in and on itself is supposed to be THE most basic lesson of martial arts.
In this day and age, though, you gotta prepare differently, because we don't know, somewhere around the corner, somebody knows somethings about defending themselves. Even an untrained person would still have fighting experiences. Not to mention some people bringing firearms with them. Firearms are strictly regulated in my country. But machete, knives, sickles and such are quite common. They're daily used tools in everyday life. Also mob mentality. You gotta prepare for all sorts of situations.
Amazing video!
Thanks!
Pressure sparring is essential to understanding body dynamics. It's why fighting should not be based on style, but body type. It's like Rokas for his body type should be essentially a great striker. He is long. He should visit Wonder Boy's camp. For his take down style he should focus on sweeps, or the uchi mata because his long arms can grip the back and ankle picks. For his aikido, honestly, because you need to be in close to get it, with long legs you are dangerous from the bottom, he should be using it in on the ground, he would be able to control well from his back because of his body type. I can see it a challenge to hit these techniques standing up, without speed and power. And that is the point balance, speed and power. Everybody wants to be Bruce lee, but no one wants to train like Bruce Lee. And no technique will work well unless these three areas are sharpened first. And there is very few martial arts that truly teach all three balance, speed and power -- Combat Sambo is on that list. Usually they teach one or two, but not all three. To believe that technique can be used without those three, is a tough journey. Pick Martial arts that will hone those skills and you will foundation. Once you have foundation, you can learn what you want at a later time and it will come easier.
Great comment
@@MartialArtsJourney Rokus, your body type would do beautiful with wado Ryu karate, welcomematt style of judo, and ballet or waltz dancing. I believe those arts compliment your body that you would enjoy them and excel quickly. It will formulate your body movements. From those foundations, I think you could really figure out a functional aikido, and excel very quickly in any martial art, there after. Lanky fighters, need to dance well. Just my two cents.
¿ How can I find more info on what is happening at timestamp 0:55 and 1:40?
Can't find more info about hard Akijitsu training, perhaps I'm not searching with the correct terms? Do I need to be searching in Japanese?
I think aikijutjitsu has a window of opportunity in a fight. It's shown in that video of course. Not everyone attacks in combination look a Stephen Thompson. Even boxers throw out jabs.. I would like that guy to fight someone his weight more to give a better gauge of it's effectiveness
The acknowledgments of when a clean hit lands in a light sparring like this makes a difference. It looks like they were a little unclear when to disengage when a strike lands. In these kinds of randori sparring sessions you must be clear and reasonable about what is a clean hit. I think that's the karate guy would fair better after a 2nd time around. However looks like size aside the other guy has more skills.
Very great video brother
It’s good to see there’s already a version of aikido that has a more well rounded style.
In regards to the comment that traditional martial arts don't engage in sparring, that wasn't always the case ,
back in the late 70s early 80s we did a lot of sparring in American Kenpo Karate (my first martial art) in Texas anyway, though they limited us on our hand techniques to the head but not too much with kicks to the head, ironically.
Try that aikijutsu against Jesse Enkamp and then we can see if it’s good enough.
About time Aikijutsu is brought up.
I wonder how it will turn up if that Aiki Jujutsu guy go against Jesse Enkamp in sparring. That would be interesting.
I think that is nice for aikido scenary...much people complain about this style,in the end aikido was made more for self evolve...aikijujutsu by other hand have much more fighting elements is like kendo vs kenjutsu,now personaly i think that the karate fighter should be equal on size it will depend of the fighter skill.
In a real full throttle karate fight, once they grab you you can use elbows, knees, head and neck grabs…Though it’s more like Judo/Japanese Ju-Jitsu, most karate styles teach to use osoto gari or the very easy, very effective “front leg bar” which is a throw achieved combining a sort of stretched arm blow+a sort of low rear ushiro geri at the same time…For Karate guys throwing is rare, but you do throw people because many times it’s the only fast way out of risking a wrestling situation. I highly doubt one experienced karateka would be so defensive and passive before one who is trying to pin him down…Let alone the Aiki-guy is twice the size…
I like this video, but I can’t help but feel the laundry list of excuses is kind of a little misguided. “Oh aikido guy can go full force and karate guy can’t” I mean let’s think about this. If the big guy went full force with his size difference it would have been different. He doesn’t spike the karate guy and doesn’t make him have uncontrolled falls, and in return the karate guy doesn’t go for knockouts, so that seems misleading to claim one is 100% while the other isn’t. Most aikijutsu falls are designed to make a person land on their spinal column or head, that would be the 100%. Most strikes are meant to really put someone out, that would be 100%. Both these nice gentlemen are keeping it light and fun. Which a lot of Muay Thai schools emphasize because it allows for learning without people getting destroyed from 100% and therefore limiting their learning from having to stop from injury.
Worth mentioning the background of this sparring match as well. The karate guy (really nice instructor by the way just can’t remember his name) was being critical of an aikido demonstration video saying he could easily handle the style (playfully) then behold days or weeks later he gets to spar an aikido guy. There are a lot of things we can take from this, but the excuses are kind of mute. It’s two respectful instructors testing each other and keeping it fun and educational. That’s why later you see the karate guy adapt and start using angles.
I believe that fluid or "alive" fighting lies dormant in the forms of traditional martial arts, one must unlock it from it's dormancy.
There is a size disparity. The Aikijujitsu practitioner is not afraid of of the smaller Karateka. There are weigh classes. I think had their been similar… it would look totally different.
I like the video, but I would like to see him spar with a larger opponent, and with more pressure.
Nowadays, all dudes around you seem to be familiar with you. You don't even understand if you have met him or not 😂😂😂🤣❤️❤️
Impressive how the commentary is simultaneously disdainful and respectful.
😄
In my own martial arts journey I came across Jisei Dojo in Lisbon/Portugal, apparently the "sensei" there practiced Tokitsu Ryu and Kenjutsu, and develuped his own Jisei Budo, I would be interested in your take on them, since I felt like it fits the fake martial arts narrative, specially now after training Muay Tai for a couple of years, the "sensei" was very pretentious, going so far as, in the few sessions I participated in, claiming that he was able to easily submit a Jiujitsu European champion (he seemed to at least believe what he was claiming, but I'm guessing that if this happened, the guy just let him win), even his Kenjutsu (which I was interested in more than his budoh) seemed unpolished, but I don't know much about kenjutsu. A while back I got reminded of this dojo because of an interview, and his moves seem even more unrealistic now than when I tryed it. If this interests you and you have the time I would be in awe of your take on it. Jisei Budoh only exists in Portugal so Im not sure it would be an interesting video, and it seems Tokitsu Ryu is a bit more international, but is also always the same guy teaching it.
Aikijj vs bjj would be lovely to see. I haven't been able to find anyone who combines the two.
Sparring is key period, any fighting style, or you have no idea weather if your training is effective at all
Low sideways kicks are major problem. Very easy to be blocked and front kick the standing leg. So you down on the ground. Or leg to be punched. If kick harder? Simply will fall harder on the ground.
3:25 Yosuke is very lucky he didn't break his elbow here. It looks painful during slow-mo. Do they not practice ukemi waza in Shotokan?
Cool sparring, hard to ignore such a huge size difference though.
If i fought a guy half my size i could do alot of cool moves
The Aikido guy is also much bigger...
And Oliver made a good point about combinations. One strike fighting gets you eaten up...
Ya the size difference is massive. If I was coaching that karate guy I would have said to calf kick,leg kick as long as he’s not getting the kicks checked and since he has bladed stance, use that side kick to his opponents lead leg Bruce Lee style. If he does check see if you can switch to inside leg kicks without getting checked. Kicking high is going to get you countered, and chances of landing a high kick are low.
Karate guy needs some clinch training, but no body wants to have to clinch with a person significantly heavier/ taller than them. I thought I saw an opportunity to frame, from which which would be an opportunity to head kick or knee. But with the experience gap in this area probably better to avoid. Just my thoughts.
Very nice one.
Would like to see the aikido guy against a top bjj black belt.
The description should be using the term Aikijujutsu, not Aikijutsu (based on the title affixed to the original video).
With all due respects, if you are to refer to Daito-ryu in your video and provide a description for the practice, I would suggest you go beyond reciting what is often uttered by individuals with no real knowledge of the tradition.
all i see is a grown man bullying a high schooler half his size.
I've never done aikido, but if I'm facing a guy half my size my aikido would work like a charm then. Next time find even a smaller karateka and pit him against Irish step dancer so that he could be combo-stomped neck-deep into ground.
Yea this pleasantly surprised me it was some good intermediate level sparring
5:51 - I feel this is a little unfair to fencing: with the kind of swords used in fencing, if they were using live blades rather than the sort used in the sport, someone would end up dead. In point Karate, there's very little risk of a fatal blow, given that they're used to just tapping an opponent with fist or foot.
Hi Rokas, I was searching around and found Hein Aikido. If you haven't seen his approach you might find it interesting.
Seems like the bigger dude is just more experienced, I think a more seasoned and maybe larger karate ka would have done better.
It's has been said that Ueshiba's Aiki-Jujitsu transformed into Aikido after his time spent in China during the war where he learnt Ba Gua, and that it would not be seen in a good light, due to the relationship between Japan and China, if he disclosed that his art was intimately influenced by a Chinese martial art.
It's definitely not much of a test. Erard was clearly being gentle and barely scratched the surface of techniques available to him. Nagano is just too tiny and inexperienced to present a challenge. Erard was most likely afraid to hurt him. If he knows Tenshin Aikido's hand deflections, then he could definitely handle combinations too. As for defusing full speed attacks, fighters like Cung Le did this routinely during his career. He'd catch a full speed attack, then slam them like a meteor. This guy could totally do that with Daito-Ryu. A bit more sparring at an MMA gym and I bet he'd do well.
What really jumped out to me was how frozen those kicks left the Karate point fighter. They gave large windows for the larger opponent to approach. He needed to keep moving and the kicking was really counterproductive to managing the distance. He got clinched or taken down on virtually every kick. The single strike and retreat style was very 'point' based and also wasn't helpful for dictating the fight.
It’s because it is light sparring. Realistically If he used full force the big guy wouldn’t catch it because the kick would go through him and he had less time to react
@@whoisthis3966 So you agree, the sparring was unrealistic and therefore not developing real fighting skills.
@@bryantharris5914 it looks like they were just having fun or something, no way it was for true sparring purposes it definitely wasnt a good spar
The real test would be if the fighters were really trying to hit one another like in MMA. It's easy enough for the aiki jujitsu guy to grab when the karate guy isn't going at full speed with full power. Everyone has a plan until they're punched/ kicked in the face.
DAITORYU Aikijujutsu is not Aikido ueshiba soften the art to control your opponent but DAITORYU was created to maim or kill your opponent, and it can match any martial art out there, remember it wasn't created to be a sport but it was created to main and kill your opponent which is applicable today as it was 900 years ago also remember it was the samurai martial art
Aikijutsu and Aikido are NOT the same. sorry, I respect what you are trying to do. But Aikido has a religious and culty vibe and it is spreading regrettably. People look for different things in MA and that's ok. As long you don't become delusional as it happens too often with martial arts that don't spar. Aikijutsu used to be one aspect of Bujutsu and other forms of martial arts. But Aikido is like reading the last 40 pages of a 900 pages book and then making a sequel.
Aiki ju jitsui defends against multiple people attacks at the same time as well as multiple attacks attacks from the same person, some aiki ju jitsui are different and not so Street wise also some use pre- emptive defence and attacks. Different styles give different results.
Where does the footage at 0:55 come from? Can't find it anywhere.