Why People Prefer More Pain
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
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References:
Kahneman, D. et al. (1993). When More Pain Is Preferred to Less: Adding a Better End. Psychological Science - ve42.co/Kahnem...
Kahneman, D. (2011). Thinking, fast and slow. Farrar, Straus and Giroux - ve42.co/FastAn...
Fredrickson, B. L., Kahneman, D. (1993). Duration neglect in retrospective evaluations of affective episodes. Journal of personality and social psychology - ve42.co/Fredri...
Kahneman, D., Tversky, A. (1972). Subjective probability: A judgment of representativeness. Cognitive Psychology - ve42.co/Kahnem...
Diener, E. et al. (2001). End Effects of Rated Life Quality: The James Dean Effect. Psychological Science - ve42.co/Deiner...
Redelmeier, D. A. et al. (2003). Memories of colonoscopy: a randomized trial. Pain - ve42.co/Redelm...
Kemp, S. et al. (2008). A test of the peak-end rule with extended autobiographical events. Memory & Cognition - ve42.co/Kemp2008
Images & Video:
Daniel Kahneman via UNSW - ve42.co/ImgKah...
Barbara Fredrickson via UNC - ve42.co/ImgFre...
Stephen Gould via achievement.org - ve42.co/ImgGould
Amos Tversky via LGT - ve42.co/ImgTve...
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Directed by Petr Lebedev
Written by Petr Lebedev and Derek Muller
Edited by Peter Nelson
Animated by Fabio Albertelli and Ivy Tello
Illustrated by Jakub Misiek
Filmed by Derek Muller and Bernard Lau
Produced by Petr Lebedev, Derek Muller, Rob Beasley Spence, Owen Maher, David Szasz, Emily Taylor, Gregor Čavlović and Alistair Dann
Thumbnail contributions by Ren Hurley and Peter Sheppard
Additional video/photos supplied by Getty and Storyblocks
Music from Epidemic Sound
**Ends with an annoying ad**
PS I was slightly disconcerted by how many folks didn't notice that my comment was meant to be facetious. Of course I don't deny Derek the right to place sponsorship messages alongside his amazing content! However, doing so at the end of this particular video made me smile at the irony and I wanted to make you guys smile as well. I am glad for the majority of you who did - you are amazing. Cheers!
Or he knows that you wont watch the ad/its worth watching anyway so the video already ended. Sponsor got done dirty.
@@hypnoticlizard9693pretty sure this is a standard practice on his videos. I'm sure the sponsor knew about it before coming to an agreement.
The actual pain
Sponsorblock
Brilliant.
Ending with that cute dog was so smart. Some RUclipsrs end their videos with an annoying ad so the viewers forget they ever saw that dog
I see what you did there. 😉 And yup. Very stupid on his part to *still* put the ad at the end...
@@Vousie I think he was making a joke at that point haha
@@thelocalshoop doesnt seem like it, its just a prerecorded ad bro
well he did thank you for watching
peak irony. i love it
“Put your right hand in the box.”
“What’s in the box?”
“Pain.”
Reminds me of „The Dune“
@@olpizl Reminds me of the barber of seville overture, which is playing in the background
ah ha !! Good one.
Derek whips out the Gom Jabbar
@@olpizlpretty sure thazs because he meant it as a reference ;)
This is why someone can go to Disneyland and spend 10 hours standing in line in the sun, but 5 minutes on actual rides, and still think back on it as a great day.
Nothing wrong with being in the sun!
@@adamcetinkent Paying exorbitant amount of money to be in the sun, though...
@@adamcetinkent Sweating? UV damage? Heatstroke?
The way im the someone-
@@Fr0zenPeanutaint that hot
"End it with something pleasant"
Proceeds to end the video with a sponsor message
💀
At least he didn't show "Man being forcibly drowned". 5:37
Lol 😂
For me, the video ends before the add and while the add plays I read the comments
At least he didn't show the colonoscopy.
sponsorblock 🤯
“Everyone must choose one of two pains: The pain of discipline or the pain of regret.”
- Jim Rohn
what about my existential pain?
I think that’s interesting, though what is meant by discipline can differ. For example, I lead something of an easy life. there are probably people who would look at me and say some variation of unmotivated or lazy. But I keep up on rent, laundry, dishes, hygiene. To me that’s discipline.
I’m not much for hard work but I work hard enough to live the life I want.
I believe if I pushed myself harder, disciplined myself more, I would lose a serenity that I value deeply.
wow! what an impressive sentence!
@@xeryuesyou don’t get to chose that one.
@@xeryues From my experience and those around me, existential pain is a pain of regret masked by very strong mental defense mechanisms. And overcoming that is a long process.
Its why you always celebrate finishing a difficult task/bad experience with something you enjoy. It makes the whole experience better.
Another interesting point is that working towards something, like maybe learning a song. The reward at the end is that you now know a new song, and you look back fondly on the process of learning it. Even though in reality, it was probably pretty tedious. This pushes us to learn more.
This is likely the evolutionary reason as to why the mind works like this. Because it drives motivation. Which is ultimately what put us at the top of the food chain.
The other thing I noted from this video was the idea that the mind takes snapshots, rather than recording the whole experience. While true to a point, I think what comes in snapshots is the ability to remember without a reference. Generally if you specifically ask someone if they remembered any particular point of an experience they will be able to. Even if the memory does not trigger when you simply ask what they remember from the experience as a whole.
@@Devilofdoom his how i felt when learning the rubiks cube
Celebrating during by drinking doesn’t count, does it 😊
@@Dudeguymansir yeah, drinking is terrible, I wonder why do people love that bitter drink
@@ThangPVan_well we did have to eat rotten fruit to survive for over 200 thousand years so we kind of developed a taste for it.
I always say that pain is just the agony of fearing the pain will last forever, and anxiety is just the fear that pain will come upon me- that's all!!
Honestly, ending with an ad pays less than a mid-roll ad, so Veritasium is actually sacrificing it's revenue for us.
I got a mid roll ad, too.
@@Lo-Delfi I am talking about the sponsor.
Cfbr
Where did you get that info?
@@chaosjacky it’s common knowledge. Advertisers pay less if you put their ads in end because most viewers just skip it
"The best way to close a RUclips video is with a wholesome message, so here's a cute dog playing with flowers" - Proceeds to follow the cute dog with an ad 😅
I wonder if that means that people generally prefer watching youtube videos with ad reads in the middle compared to them at the end?
@@xKumeiThere is no reason to continue watching at the end
Bro he just gave you permission to skip watching the ad section. Like, the video is over now, this is clearly the after-the-video portion of the upload.
@@jellyg0at9 he is expecting us to have Sponsorblock addon
@@xKumei i click off before the ad rolls anyway so i much prefer that
The sponsor message at the end of the video is just him experimenting on all of us. Well played sir, well played.
yeah
Just another brick in their 14 year RUclips wall. A few steps above other science channels
I think the reason the Linda question trips people up is because it feels like the additional information in the more desriptive answer implies that that information does NOT apply to the less descriptive answer. If I say "do you want a ham sandwich, or a ham sandwich with cheese" you would naturally assume that the first option means a ham sandwich WITHOUT cheese, even though that's not specified and could technically mean either.
So while I think the results of the experiment would still be similar even if you accounted for this, it does feel iffy to kind of trick people with a quirk of language and then conclude "Ah ha! People think that the smaller subset is more likely even though that's obviously impossible!"
Yes thank you!! It was bothering me because it feels like the conclusion he draws isn't really related to the reason why I made a choise.
This is an interesting hypothesis. It could be tested by asking forming two groups of participants and asking for a numerical estimate of only one of the probabilities.
If people are interpreting the question in the way that you describe, then I think they're leaning too hard on Grice's maxim of relevance.
@@mvmlego1212 I think you could maybe account for it by instead presenting the options as:
A) Linda may or may not be active in the feminist movement
B) Linda is active in the feminist movement
Exactly, I read the question as "she's a bank teller either way, but in one she's a feminist *and in the other, she's not*" and I figured her more likely to be a feminist than not.
@@VideogamesPang -- Yep, yours is better.
This is why rock concerts have encores. Edit: this actually works both ways - the fans get to hear a song they've been waiting for and so have a peak experience, and the band gets to play while the crowd goes utterly wild, so they also get a peak experience.
This is a very interesting application of that theory. Never thought about it this way, but albsolutely makes sense
Interestingly, quite a few bands put their most famous song at the very end of the encore - for example, just last week I saw Scorpions, who finished with Rock You Like A Hurricane. I wonder if combining the peak and the end magnifies the memory, or dulls it because they're overlapping...
"Goodnight Springfield...There will be no encore!"
"Man.. lets trash this place!"
Interesting, because I was seriously annoyed when I saw one of my favorite bands and there was no encore. Everyone in the venue was also confused and wasn’t sure if they should leave yet or not. That was years ago, and I’m still not sure if they did that on purpose or not to incite discomfort.
@@WolfsToob My favorite band never does encores. They just maximise the time they have and don't want to interrupt the flow of the concerts. Most attendees know this and are fine with it, but I can imagine it might trip you up a bit if you're expecting one. I can see arguments for both but I think I prefer this approach.
The best way to end this youtube video is with dog playing with the flowers - ends it with an ad instead. Truly makes you think.
Surat No. 2 Ayat NO. 28
How can you be ungrateful to Allah Who bestowed life upon you when you were lifeless then He will cause you to die and will again bring you back to life so that you will be returned to Him.
Surat No. 52 Ayat NO. 35
35 Were they created out of nothing, or are they their own creators?
Surat No. 52 Ayat NO. 36
36 Did they create the heavens and the earth? No! They have no
yeah lmao it is kind of undermining his whole message, idk what the thought process was about that. Maybe he really believes that people don't want to leave the video to click the ad when it is in the middle of the video. Or maybe this was like a playful message to say that his sponsor is actually a good thing. Idk.
Iirc only middle ads are controlled by content creator and preroll and endroll are RUclips automatic ads?
@@yuitachibana8829 They're talking about the sponsorship.
Yeah guys. How could you do that to Allah? Shits fucked up
I read the Kahneman hand in cold water study a dozen years ago and found it fascinating. It took me awhile, but finally it showed me why Hollywood is so in love with the happy ending. Even after a violent and painful movie, a happy or good ending will prompt you to enjoy the experience overall. It's a trick that Hollywood has learned well and uses to multi-million dollar success.
This is why i like Veritasium. He always tries to make videos that matter and about things that people should know. This video is definitely one of them. And I hope more and more people watch it.
I think it makes a lot of sense.
1. Knowing the peak of discomfort allows us to judge whether we can go through the same discomfort again. When your goal is not dying, then "how close are you to dying at the worst moment of the experience" is a very good indicator of how bad given experience is.
2. The end is usually the moment when we get a reward for doing something. Therefore we focus on remembering the end of an experience in order to know what kind of reward we can expect for going through this again.
Recuding the whole experience to these two numbers allows us much easier processing of events and judging whether we want to take part in them again, while at the same time it preserves most important information about the event.
"In music, though, one doesn’t make the end of a composition the point of the composition. If that were so, the best conductors would be those who played fastest and there would be composers who wrote only finales. People would go to concerts just to hear one crashing chord, because that’s the end! Say, when dancing, you don’t aim at a particular spot in the room; that’s where you should arrive. The whole point of the dancing is the dance." - Alan Watts
@@ripvanwando Dont' bore us, get to the chorus :)
@@ripvanwando it's also to build up the end, if it was by itself then there'd be nothing to it, you need a full experience that culminates into a peak and an end, a rising action for the peak and a proper closing for the whole thing. do you think those people in the experiments would like to experience the lesser pain at the end with no reason or nothing to compare it to?
Ending the video with an ad did put a smile on my face, well done sir.
I didn't expect 14C water to be cold enough to hurt, it seems okay in my head
I'm equally confused by this. I guess I'm just accustomed to cold? I shower cold and wash hands cold, etc. As long as it's not freezing I also have my window next to me open. Dunno, seemed quite mundane to put a hand in 14C water for a minute. Might have to actually try it to figure out what this is about lol.
I think water temperature is colder than air temperature, its not like sticking your hand in 14 C air and water is the same.
Edit: Feels colder, not is colder
It took me 12 minutes of wondering the same thing, until I realised it’s degrees Fahrenheit…
@@junipermeisje6300 I don't think it is, the digital readout says C
@@pourplecat I suppose, but I doubt that submerging 1 hand would hurt that much? I don't have a good thermometer so I can't do this experiment myself, sadly
6:20 I was asked recently what my most favourite family vacation was, and I answered with one of the shortest vacations we ever had, about 3 or 4 days.
It was the last vacation our family had before my eldest siblings got married and moved out, and I still fondly remember this. I've had longer vacations, but nothing comes close to that time 5-6 years ago
As a French, it took me way too long to understand that thumbnail. Of course I want more pain! (The original thumbnail said PAIN)
pain de mie, pain de campagne, pain de sucre, pain de savon....
@@TooTallForPony You forgot "pain de butt"
@@YO-BIZZYthe best kind of pain
c‘est pain perdu pour les americains…
No more riots in Paris alright 😂🤣. I in England, I like the EU countries and I want us to be friends with France.
I find it very funny that everyone is talking about the ending. It’s what they remember most. A literal example of what the whole video was about lol
37 spotted
@@arvt_ I literally watched that a few videos ago😂
Spot on
"Pain is temporary. Quitting lasts forever." - Sun Tzu
Confuscius say Dongs Big Dang!
"Stop quoting things I didn't say!"
-Sun Tzu
"But chronic pain is forever. So.... 🤷♀️ Whatever, I guess."
- Famous Q. Person
He is a successful Footballer Hope Sport. You don't want to marry Ronaldo, you might think?! He knew I had Asthma Bronchial. His dog also had Asthma. And only when I started smoking attacks it became 50% less. And the former spouse was generally indignant that there was no asthma. Remission. From 13 to 15 years old, they already gave the Second Disability Group, and this is 25 years of life from the moment. 13(15)+25=39 years (38-40)
Doctors speak from Mom. But at the age of five, I almost died from Whooping cough. And earlier, too, the hope of Sports of the USSR was expelled for unsportsmanlike behavior two fights from the school of the Olympic reserve in Gymnastics, but did not tell him about it.
For three years there was. Coach alone took away free of charge from the entire kindergarten. On the swimming offered until the scandal subsides to go, but I was offended. Professional straight hope and talent.
These are the health consequences of a sharp drop in Professional sports.
Do you think he would want to date a girl who Twice Beat, Fought and Beat up her gymnast rival from the Paid Section? When is he an Athlete himself?
There is definitely no puppy with flowers.
Before that, having scored an arrow on Brawl with his friends for insulting that without a bra in a T-shirt he walks from which he smeared her. So no one else climbed to her. I beat my classmates at school for the cause. And not only Peers at school.
🥴Yes, my hands are weak, and my legs are very strong. And I hit well unexpectedly with a turn of foot.
Quitting doesn't last forever unless you quit life
Great Video Derek! Always been a fan of your content. I love the way you played a little mind experiment on all of us at the end, and also how you cheekily inserted the number 37 here and there... :)
"Duration Neglect" - I've never heard of that phenomenon, but now that I have, I can recall *MANY* situations where this came in to play.
My wife isn't a big fan of long trips, but loves "being at places." A couple weeks ago, we did a relatively short road trip - 3 hours to where we'd spend a weekend. last year, we did a *LONG* road trip - multiple days each way to reach where we'd spend a couple weeks.
In both cases, during the driving, she hated it. A couple hours into the drive, "why are we going so far.?.?" - but after just a couple hours at the destination, the length of the drive was totally worth it to her.
Can't relate, I could name multiple vacations where the main thing that sticks out is how much we needed to travel to get to places.
Also I hate flying, airports are basically hell on Earth.
Your voice and your content is what make me come back every time! I love that it can be applied to almost everything I do in my life, work, training, partnership and memory. I never realized that memory was a photographer and not a filmmaker but know that you mentioned it, it is a photo ta come alive and short span of before and after the photo play in my mind but really not the whole thing. Thanks once again for this great video, I love how memory work and affect our lives in subtle ways.
07:14 - Regarding the perception of randomness, a tell-tell sign that something is not random is that there are no repetitions in a sequence. Repetition statistics are used in detecting false randomness during cryptanalysis. As a general rule of thumb, the more random something appears to a human, the less likely it actually is random.
I thunk internally we don't evaluate the odds of 000111 vs 01101110, we evaluate the odds of something seemingly looking artificial vs something seemingly looking chaotic. Technically a bunch of atoms are equally likely to produce a chair than to produce a specific blob, but the odds of the thing looking like a blob are much higher than it looking lke a chair. Something to do with entropy.
Unfortunately because of randomness this also doesn't apply. You can't just look at something and think "a human probably didnt do that" and then evaluate it's randomness higher.
'Tell-tale' is the term. as in, it's a sign that tells a tale/story. Circles under someone's eyes tell the story(tale) of a sleepless night. They're a tell-tale sign of insomnia! Get it?
yeah. I was forging a study that I supposedly conducted for a high school math teacher - I didn't know whether or not to put in many patterns or to avoid it and thus make it less random.
Surat No. 2 Ayat NO. 28
How can you be ungrateful to Allah Who bestowed life upon you when you were lifeless then He will cause you to die and will again bring you back to life so that you will be returned to Him.
Surat No. 52 Ayat NO. 35
35 Were they created out of nothing, or are they their own creators?
Surat No. 52 Ayat NO. 36
36 Did they create the heavens and the earth? No! They have no
Love how you ended the video on the high note of showing us how to best use what we've learned in our lives to improve them.
Just another great way to remember the learning, thanks!
10:30 There's something oddly satisfying about hearing Derek stop talking science for a moment and just absolutely roasting the final season of GoT.
It was a great example...... no can fault him if that pain is still present.
Great analogy
the final season was constipated - the solution was 'all bran'
It wasn't just the final season. It started going wrong in season 5.
Gaym of transes
I love this study. We remember the ending and peak experience more than the average experience or duration. Such a lesson in human psyche.
I feel like there is a problem with the Linda problem: people aren’t familiar with probability terms and have the misconception that instead of the the first option being that she is just a bank teller, it is that she is a bank teller but not a feminist. This ultimately means that they scale the area of the *intersection* of bank teller and feminist with the probability of *bank teller minus the intersection,* which could make the intersection more likely.
I'm not buying the whole "preferring pain" thing, its more likely that people associate the additional wait time with the second experiment and thus would prefer the first one again
@@defense200x it's randomised. The first test is longer in half the cases, the second test is longer in the other half. If people had some bias towards thinking the second test was longer and thus worse, then you'd see an even 50/50 split between people prefering the longer or shorter one as the first test is randomly one of the two. You don't see a 50/50 split, the research paper showed 70/30.
That said, the sample size was only like 50, which is extremely small for human studies. So a large sample size of millions might show 50/50. But it's hard to argue with the rest of the video though, even if you feel the science isn't accurate you know that what it's trying to prove is real. It's just difficult to prove. Also the preferred pain thing is youtube clickbait, what the video is actually about is how we remember experiences. People prefer the experience that had a more pleasant ending to it, not that they preferred more pain.
I agree with your analysis and also don't think the Linda problem is related to this subject. I know statistics well enough to answer B instantly, but I know that I would still probably rank the 30 yr life of Jen higher than 35 yr.
This whole video is about a set of faulty experiments. There is so many wtf there that it is probably worthless "science".
Like how do you end up with less desirable life if it is longer? clearly that was not the only difference or the measurement was imprecise.
I refuse to trust any psychological science since I learned how non replicable they are and how shitty the conduct is in many cases.
Also, I refuse to believe that 30 seconds of warmer water was actually 30 seconds of feeling the warmth. I downwoted this video. It spreads bs unfortunately.
@@defense200x Also I dont think that 30 seconds of warmer water is actually 30 seconds of just 1 degree warmer water. It is not possible to warm the water as a whole instantly even by 1 degree. The experiments are an example of bad science painted as rigorous. It is bs unfortunately. There is a reason the replicability of psychological studies is so bad.
One of my favourite videos of yours. I'll be sharing this one as the Peak-End method can be put into practice by everyone in life.
Ending a video essay about the benefits of a positive final impression with a 1.5-minute ad is a tad ironic 😂
At least it wasn't BetterHelp this time...
Is ironic , but it has made thousands of people talk about the add, which was their goal. Now they are either super dumb or are super smart to let others think that they are smart and also make them remember about this one add on a veritasium video.
They said u remember the ending a lot so it would be beneficial to have it at the end as people would remember the add more
Ah, but the final 1.5 minutes can be *skipped* , the video stopped, or the tab closed. The whole point of the extra 30 seconds of the hand-in-water experiment -- *and* the colonoscopy example -- is that the participant is *not in control of how long it lasts* . But as a viewer of a video, you choose when to end it, so you can *choose* to stop at the puppy.
Who wants to bet he's got 50percent of the videos with and without the ad. Looking forward to the results !
I had this shower thought quite a while ago, where I figured that adults perceive time faster than children partly because we do less things during the day.
A child has less experiences, so anything they do is a new "photograph" in their mind, so they learned and experienced many new things, so the day was perceived as slower. Our mind tracks time in moments and not seconds. If you get yourself focused on the work and use several hours on one thing - it's just a single "moment", a single photograph.
I also watched that Vsauce video, yes.
@@Rydn or did you?
Also, the more recent and vivid memories, or 'photographs', the less you have from previous years
A year to a 10 year old kid is 10% of his life but merely 2.5% of a 40 year old adult's life. That might be another factor affecting how they perceive time.
@@druggy1868 This was always my assumption too.
I think the bank teller question is tricky because we misread the question. the reader THINKS it means "what's more likely, Bank Teller AND Feminist or Bank Teller AND NOT Feminist?" When what is being asked is really "what's more likely, Bank Teller (either Feminist or Not), OR Bank Teller AND Feminist?"
Shhh how will I mislead my research participants?
You know how hard actual research is??
I think that's still a bias. I don't know why but most people see only two alternatives. Black and white. If you half open a door, and you ask a person if it is open or closed, most people will respond that it's open while it's half open. And half open IS NOT open
I hope the original study at least randomized the order of answer choices. I wouldn't be overly surprised to find out that the order of choices was more important than anything else.
That said, I totally know how non-natural bayesian statistics is human beings.
@@emanueleluciani99 you ask a binary question, you get a binary answer. wording of the question leads people to think along similar lines.
Yes, many "profound insights" cited here are just word tricks. Just like the berry example. It was very poor.
The best way of closing out a video you did is not showing us a cute dog but showing us good examples. This gave us the peak experience.
9:33
"Also, annoyingly enough, a strawberry is not technically a berry. Botany is confusing."
Nor is it a straw!
But it has achenes 😢
🥱
Guess the best way to deal with pain is to imagine what is expected to be accomplished from challenge 👍👍👍
Then there’s me who likes swimming in 50 degree water 😂
@@gang1798 Let me know if you do that haha
@@dhdkro hehe
But wont that lead to people staying in their pain
What does this even mean
The part about the eggplant being a berry and still being cooked as a vegetable reminded of that bit that goes: Knowledge is knowing tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad
If it's common for pizzas to be eaten with chopped pineapples on them, fruit salads can be made with sliced grape tomatoes.
So knowledge is knowing a thing, and wisdom is also knowing a thing.
@@uninspired3583another way to look at it would be the knowledge is knowing a thing but wisdom is understanding when to use the application of that thing.
Often they go hand in hand, however on the example stated above it’s probably more wise not to include tomatoes in your fruit salad (even if they are a fruit).
@aidan5715 you've just substituted knowing for understanding here though.
Wisdom seems to be a particular kind of knowledge. You can know things without being wise, but you can't be wise without knowledge. "Wisdom" with the absence of knowledge is just lucky.
@@uninspired3583yeah, you missed the more important addition of “understanding *when*…”
So knowledge is knowing the difference between your and you’re. Wisdom is knowing not to point out the mistake in the middle of someone’s presentation (or something, I don’t know).
In Germany we say "Man soll gehen, wenn es am schönsten ist." ("One should leave, when things are at it's best."). Works every time.🤓 Thanks for the fine content, keep it on.👌
I remember this one study where people were put in a room for fifteen minutes and had the option to wait out the time doing nothing, or shock themselves, and a surprising amount of people chose the shock. I haven’t watched the video yet so I don’t know if this is relevant to it, but it is certainly an interesting study.
Edit: After doing a bit of skimming through the video, I was unable to find a reference to this study. However, I realized that Veritasium did a whole video about boredom a while back, and that actually is where I learned of the study. It’s all coming full circle lol.
Boredom is the greatest agony, and the greatest motivator.
Love and fear pale in comparison to boredoms ability to spur us into action
That's just boredom dude.
Thats a different experiment for a different concept to the one in this video, that experiment explored how the brain prefers bad stimulus to no stimulus at all in certain situations. This experiment is about how the duration of an event is not remembered, rather the key moments of it, the average experience and the end, meaning a longer duration of pain will be remebered more fondly, so long as there is the slightest drop in pain by the end, which changes the average experience and the end, and provides a key moment of noticing a decrease in pain.
Pretty sure Vsauce had a MindField video on that too 😂
All that’s doing is reminding me of the prehistoric SpongeBob scene where primitive SpongeBob and Patrick ancestors pass a jellyfish back-and-forth and keep getting stung.
I also tend to prefer more pain, especially on the weekends
Do you play League of Legends perhaps?
@@junba1810 no… it’s rainbow six siege…
@@The-Caged-King yikes, I'm praying for you dude
@@petergao96 if god could help me… he would have done so 2000 hours ago…
@@The-Caged-King
May God bless your soul
"Only, I know you love pain. Pain reminds you the joy you felt was real." - Niander Wallace
Surat No. 2 Ayat NO. 28
How can you be ungrateful to Allah Who bestowed life upon you when you were lifeless then He will cause you to die and will again bring you back to life so that you will be returned to Him.
Surat No. 52 Ayat NO. 35
35 Were they created out of nothing, or are they their own creators?
Surat No. 52 Ayat NO. 36
36 Did they create the heavens and the earth? No! They have no
I disagree. Remembering a past joy that is irrecoverable is highly unpleasant. Remembering being in love with someone who left you is one of the most unfavorable experiences that most people can recollect.
yours are the only videos i watch on utube, cutie scientist. love you. keep making these excellent educational videos featuring you and your amazing understanding of the universe.
you are really good at making this videos. I think it's not easy to be informative and entertaining at the same time. thanks Derek!
The "Bank 37" on the wall and ground was a nice touch. :)
Yeah I also saw that and was looking for a comment mentioning it!
A bot copied your comment
37 will show up EVERYWHERE now, won't it
@@crappyspidersucksthemost thanks for the info lol
People tend to prefer a challenge, but it doesn't need to be painful to be challenging.
People also tend to mistake relief for pleasure.
Mistake is the wrong word. Relief can be extremely pleasurable
Your concept of pleasure is incomplete @@Channel7331
As a chronic pain sufferer… I find it extremely pleasurable to feel relief of the pain…
@@Channel7331this actually has research behind it. Relief is pleasure but it only lasts for an extremely short time
@@Channel7331People frantically looking for a toilet would agree.
thank you so much for your kindness, and generosity
Just recently I finished dr. Kahnemans book ‘thinking fast and slow’ and I recognised this experiment. Very interesting book! It’s a mix between economics and psychology for those who are interested
What you say is true and true from my own experience, as last year’s summer vacation ended with an earthquake that struck Morocco, and this made me forget all the beautiful moments of the summer vacation.
stepping on a lego hurt me more than when i cracked my head open on concrete
That makes total sense, actually.
I feel like I am the only one who doesn't find stepping on Lego painful - it's unfortunate for sure but not painful
When did adrenaline get a keyboard?
Hit by car, hospital, court and recovery was = holy crap lvl pain,1 week after I remembered I was starting school in 2 months = kill me now! I can"t take it
Bro stepping on Legos sucks so much. The moment my foot steps down on 1 I look like my legs turned to jelly and I hit the floor in the most annoying pain😂😂😂😂
Amazing how the graph at the end looks pretty much like most story structures. It seems like we are wired to tell stories that way to make them more memorable. Great video as always.
I love your content.
Holy moly, there were _sooo_ many issues with so many arguments here. I found myself nearly spitting my coffee out just from the poor/ leading phrasing used in a couple of the questions used the studies referenced.
Did you not watch the substance of the video? Or are you just being pedantic and hypercritical?
@@newkbootswhat do you think, coming from a person that uses the expression "nearly spit out my coffee"?
"Holy moly goly jeepers my jinkies are so rattled and my coffee nearly spat out in outrage"
Soyjak
did you spit the coffee?
@@newkbootsyou are just being sloppy and hypocritical
Pop-psychology checklist:
- Sounds surprising- Check
- Effect sizes are relatively small- Check
- Sample sizes with minimal- Check
Given that Derek himself made a video about the replication crisis, I'm quite impressed his radar isn't jumping like crazy with this...
Yeah there's a few red flags in the studies he mentioned just from how he described them. The one that stood out to me was the story of the woman with 5 years extra life. Like it's clearly less favourable because, if she was in a car accident, we associate that recovery with suffering so they'd really have to clarify the quality of life to the participants. Then did they also test the responses if those 5 worse years weren't just at the end of her life. I haven't checked the source but it's still good to question these things.
This is an almost pointless comment on a pop-psychology RUclips channel's video.
@@Ironically-Sarcasticnot really. Some of us like me have just realized on this video hes more into pseudoscience than real science. For literal years I thought his word was simply fact and it genuinely took until THIS video for me to realize the error in thinking that about anyone. You never know who will read your comment and the chain-reaction it could have to fight misinformation.
@@GrabnarMyers You mean he's on RUclips solely for entertainment of people, not enlightenment?
N=32 kekw like bro what is this
That Game of Thrones shade was hilarious!
Derek, you have no idea how much this video is going to change my life. This one fact will change how I look at life forever.
As someone in chronic pain, I don't prefer pain at all. But if your having pain in a part of your body, applying worse pain in another spot will make the original pain magically disappear. Your brain generally only registers the larger pain input. Say you burn your hand on the rack in the oven while pulling out that pizza. You could stomp on a toe and the pain on your hand will no longer be an issue, as long as the toe pain is greater. However, when the pain in your toe fades, the burn pain will return.
Reminds me of a joke my high school math teacher said: "Why do you keep hitting your head against the wall?" "Because it feels good when I stop."
agreed as a migraine sufferer. Before I started taking prescription medication for it, the only thing I could do sometimes was bite the crap out of my arms, hands, and feet just so my brain could focus on pain somewhere else
That's why Dr House intentionally broke his finger because he couldn't take pain meds for his leg
I agree, and as a fellow with chronic pain (migraines, Wilson's disease, Pectus Excavatum also known as palpitations (basically) ), though I may not be able to share your pain or problems, the best and most important is as Derek said at the end, having a peak and a good end. I think we all need more and more joyous / memorable lives, especially now.
@@funsized924Same. Sometimes, I remember a fellow friend of mine in elementary and middle school who may or may not had migraines with me, banged our heads on anything, mostly walls even competing how hard we would be able to do it...
“Time interval is a strange and contradictory matter in the mind. It would be reasonable to suppose that a routine time or an eventless time would seem interminable. It should be so, but it is not. It is the dull eventless times that have no duration whatever. A time splashed with interest, wounded with tragedy, crevassed with joy - that's the time that seems long in the memory. And this is right when you think about it. Eventlessness has no posts to drape duration on. From nothing to nothing is no time at all.” John Steinbeck - East of Eden
I agree with the argument "happy ending" but I would consider two more things which are also related to each other.
1- Already leaving your comfort zone
the participants of your experiment are leaving their comfort zone by putting their hands in the cold water, so it doesn't matter for them staying a bit longer because they already felt the pain. Imagine, you have to edit a RUclips video but you don't have enough energy and motivation to do that but once you start, it doesn't make so much difference continue editing for one more hour, if you get a better result at the end aka a better prize. I would say the prize in this experiment for the participants is to be able to hold their hands more.
2 - more stress = more adrenalin and dopamine until a certain point
for example doing an exercise causes stress but with that adrenalin and dopamine hormones release which make us happy. It happens also while we are studying or taking cold shower. It means leaving our comfort zone makes us happy, so leaving it a bit further means more happiness until a certain point. In my opinion we also see this effect in your experiment that's why the participants remember the longer version better.
Love the thumbnail! So eye catching yet so simple
“All’s well that ends well” proved I guess who knew how accurate it was
The current thumbnail is too good! hahaha
He went from the "I'm bad at making thumbnails" video a few years ago to "I crafted the perfect thumbnail"
Say what you will about Veritasium videos, but you gotta give it to Derek: the man knows how to make a proper thumbnail.
On the topic of Linda the potential feminist bank-teller: I think the reason that people may get that question wrong is because we mentally fill in a gap that isn't actually there. Our brains interpret the question as "Which is more likely: A) Linda is a bank teller (and not a feminist) or B) Linda is a bank teller and a feminist. The part in parentheses was never actually said, but the framing of the question leads us to expect it and that's the question people answer before thinking about it.
exactly what I thought as well!
Yes, these results are more about how the words are being used than any lived experience. People are really bad at describing things like this. Especially someone who just went through a colonoscopy.
I commented on this before reading your comment. Yes, the question frames it like its mutually exclusive.
No this is definitely not it. The original version of the experiment actually didn't involve both options but had a more convoluted way to compare them (If I recall correctly half the participants were shown "bank teller" , half were shown "feminist bank teller", and all were shown a common third option and compared the difference with the common answer).
The experiment mentioned here is actually a follow up, which they only made because they effect was so strong they wanted to see if it generalizes even when shown both options.
@@all_so_frivolous That makes so much more sense
Man, have been kinda watching your videos every now and then. This video was so good and the irony at the end made me notice I havent subscribed, so I gotta say, you did a great job. :3
Cute dog playing with flowers is at 15:28..... followed by 90s of sponsored content! If I watch the sponsored content then this video is not 'optimized for the end', and I'll have an unconciousably less favourable impressions of the video as a whole. Fortunately I didn't watch the sponsored ad and am therefore more motivated to "like" the video.
This guy got the message.
The thumbnail on this is Gold Level..
Finally found a single life comment
Veritasium out here lookin’ for the kwisatz haderach…
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past, I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.” -Paul Atreides
Lisan al Gaib!
"Put your hand in the bucket."
@@BlackShardStudio "what's in the bucket/box?"
@@shabadrandhawa3829
The box contains pain… Will you face your fear and the dreaded Gom Jabbar? Perhaps you are the one we have been waiting for… are you the Voice from the Outer World?
“More potently, our minds are a hungry audience, craving only the peaks and valleys of experience. The bland erodes, leaving behind the distinctive bits to be remembered again and again.” -Brandon Sanderson, Tress and the Emerald Sea
Bank "37!"
I love u bro, u know 37 is what people believe to be the most random number and you're talking about how people think of probabilities and randomness!
I feel the Linda experiment has a massive flaw. The way language works, people may assume that the lack of explicitly stating Linda is a feminist in option one, vs the explicit statement in option 2, implicitly means that option actually is "Linda is a bank teller AND NOT a feminist". Yes, strictly speaking, that is not included in the statement, but language is often about interpretation and implicit meaning (see the classic "Asbestos free cereal"), and I for one, instinctively arrived at that interpretation. And given Linda's background, when choosing between "Linda is a bank teller and not a feminist" vs. "Linda is a bank teller and a feminist", the latter is clearly more likely. If you were to rephrase the two options as "1: Linda is a bank teller, and may or may not be active in the feminist movement" and "2: Linda is a bank teller and is active in the feminist movement", I would very much suspect that most people correctly pick option 1 as more likely. At the very least, I'd argue that such a phrasing would be necessary to remove the ambiguity from this experiment.
In my mind, this experiment is more demonstrating the interpretation of language, and less some flawed understanding of statistics.
This flaw is also literally IN the Gould quote. He says "She can't JUST be a bank teller". He is implicitly assuming that the bank teller option means Linda is JUST a bank teller and not a feminist.
The need for additional expression to remove ambiguity proves the representation bias in itself. Language reflects people's thinking.
Or "is feminist bank teller a subset of bank teller" and almost no one would get that wrong
CodePsy is correct. In critiquing the experiment, you've actually demonstrated the bias.
"given Linda's background, the latter is clearly more likely"
Linda's background didn't mention feminism. It described a number of things we culturally associate with feminism, therefore it _feels_ more likely that she is a feminist. Those associations are very useful in our day to day lives. However, the same mental functions that produce those associations can also produce errors in how we analyze information.
@@MooseMoosely It IS more likely. Someone active in social justice causes is more likely to be a feminist than to not be a feminist.
The ad at the end is just **chefs kiss** perfect
Even the ad subject was not chosen randomly, I believe.
Who even watches those ads? I always skip them automatically.
I go to the ocean on winter here and take 20min bath full body. The water is 14C-16C. It is a matter of accomplishing Wim Hof courses and get used to taking cold baths.
The whole berry thing has to do with two vernaculars that use the same words and it is confusing. In the scientific vernacular, berries are something specific that has to do with the plants reproduction, in the culinary vernacular berries are something specific that has to do with their culinary use and flavour profile.
Also in the science vernacular, vegetable is a property denoting that something is edible, but in culinary vernacular it is a type of thing that is categorised by it's use in cuisine.
A tomato is a vegetable both culinarily and scientifically, but only in science is it a fruit, a berry, and a vegetable.
exactly, I was confused cause it seems like those examples were completely unrelated to anything else
+1 for a guy who understands that words have multiple meanings that depend on their context. Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting a tomato in a fruit salad.
yeah using that as an example in the video annoyed me a lot
EXACTLY. in my native language there's not even a causal, non scientific word for "berry"
"Vegetable" is not a scientific term
"Vegetable" is not a classification in biology; it is more of a category of food that contains a wide selection of parts from plants, including roots (like carrots), stems (like celery), leaves (like spinach), flowers (like broccoli), seeds (like peas), fruits (like tomatoes and cucumbers), and berries (like bell peppers and eggplants).
I heard it was a term from marketing, nothing to do with biology at all.
I’m reading the comments while watching the video and wondering how veggies are going to fit into it haha
Derek got it compeletely wrong there. Berry just has a definition in botany separate from colloquial usage. People have been saying the word "berry" long before scientists aribtrarily chose that term to refer to a part of a plant.
Vegetables are plants of which the non-fruit parts are edible (like onion),
@@d3fau1thmph So you're implying that pumpkin is a vegetable because the leaves are edible. Assuming you meant "edible parts of a plant that isn't a fruit," then that is also wrong. Nobody calls cinnamon a vegetable.
For everyone pointing out that 7/12 might not be statistically significant: If the goal was 50% you are right. But the goal is actually 0% because why would _anyone_ prefer more pain? Even 3/12 would be strange!
Problem is that it's technically not more pain but it's on average less pain but for a longer duration.
Actually, the cold temperature was the same for both experiments during the first few minutes. However, the second experiment lasted ten seconds longer with less discomfort from warmer water.. The subjects preferred the second longer experiment because its ending yielded less discomfort (even though it was ten seconds longer). In other words, it is not so much the time of pleasure or displeasure of an event, but the perception of the event at the end. Thus, our experience at the conclusion of an event will shape our perception of the overall event - the recency bias effect @moos5221
@@moos5221it is more pain. You experience the same, and then some extra pain
@@Bmybuddy69 yeah, that's already been said in the video, but thanks for the recap i guess.
@@Mathijs_A and that's where i disagree. if the water was colder for the same amount of time or if electrical current was added then i'd say it's more pain. but when it's just longer then it's the same pain just for a longer duration and when for the extra duration it's less pain then before then it's on average less pain but over a longer duration.
I love the subtle nod to the number 37
What where i didnt notice
@@ENDERLEGEND26 8:15
@@Diablo0 ah yes the chalkboard.. damn yall r keen
yes, 37, the most random number of them all!
My grandmother was hit by a truck just 3 days ago. She was badly injured with a broken spine and was going to be a paraplegic, She was a very active and outgoing person who would never wanted to live the rest of her remaining years in that condition. Today we laid her to rest and the part about the quality of life being affected by the end was what i need to hear. We didn't want to let go but its what she wanted. The End Matters.
I am very sorry to hear this, but happy to hear that you take this away from the video.
Best wishes to you and your family during this time. I respect what you said asnd your principles. For me, from my experience, I've only really had "Shock" funerals.I hate funerals like this, being unable to even say goodbye whilst they're still alive. Every funeral I've been to, my uncle, and then his son some 15 years later. First was a hit and run which was never solved, and then my cousin Aidan who was one of two of my best friends, killed himself in 2021, at the age of 27 :( Really good looking lad, loads of friends, really popular). He never recovered mentally from his dads death, he'd developed a drug habit and spiralled from there, without telling anyone or mentioning it. I dont have many memories of my childhood without him.
What I'm trying to say is, and please don't take this the wrong way, is that I wish so much I could have at least said goodbye to them whilst they were still with you. So please cherish this as many people don't get the chance. I hope you can have a funeral as a way of final goodbye, and a celebration of your grandmas life.
I'm sure she must have been a great woman, may her soul rest in peace, free from pain.
All the best, Liam x
@@myce-liam thank you for them kind words and I hope you find the peace you need as well and wish you the best!
New Veritasium video during lunch!!! Perfect!
New veritasium video at 22.25, still perfect!!! :)
@@daminam for me its 23.29
It's 2 in the night here.
17:40 here
It's 23:43 in my city, but no matter the time, it's perfect)
So this could work in the business world too. Having a minute of positive experience with a brand can increase sales and make the person remember you. While giving a customer bad experience will do opposite
I'm in my 30's, but when I was about 21, I realized there's a huge discrepancy in how I *remember* pain versus how I remember other things.
I used to do a lot of dumb stunts or willingly go through crazy obstacles I knew would hurt, but only because once the pain was gone I couldn't truly recall how terrible it was.
Like I remember when I tore my hamstring, it was the most painful, debilitating pain imaginable, yet I couldn't really articulate how that was different from breaking a rib (which had previously been what I thought was the most painful thing ever). This lead to me continuously putting myself through pain again & again, because the only pain that really mattered was in the moment.
This is different from other areas of life though. Like I can try a food once & know I don't like celery, then I just don't eat it again. I don't continue to eat celery, think it's bad, forget it, then try again. Same thing with emotional experiences & relationships. I know what will make me happy, sad, mad, etc. and try to avoid the negative & pursue the positive.
But when it came to pain, I can remember generalizations like "it hurt," or "it *REALLY* hurt," but in the moment that didn't mean much. I'd still do the stupid things that got me hurt, even though I'd swear in the moment "never do THAT thing again."
+1 for the effort
Might just be a masochist
Doesnt really make sense for most people. Most ppl if they tore a hamstring or broke bones wouldn't want to keep doing that coz not only does it hurt, it causes long term further pain which is actually detrimental to your health. I think most ppl would realise that and stop doing the activity
Thanks for sharing your insight, found it notable.
I think this is common, but it's common for emotional pain and various other kinds of physical and psychological discomfort as well. I'd say the fact that you don't experience this forgetting with emotional experiences or relationships is less common.
'The Linda Problem' has been widely criticized, and in my view rightly so. See, for example 'The Problem With The Linda Problem' by Eric Robert Morse, which illustrates exactly why I felt it was a poorly constructed experiment.
Interesting, commenting to remember this
Yep, my feeling is that the first choice, of "bank teller" is interpreted as "bank teller and not feminist" due to the phrasing of the question and the unusual-ness of the format. Who asks a question where one option is completely a subset of the other, in normal life? Questions normally are used to differentiate between two separate things, and if one option gives you a thing the other option wont unless clearly explained otherwise.
Yeah, when he said it, i thought the second option, because after i heard it, I assumed that the first meant "she's a bank teller (and NOT part of the movement)". While that's an interesting assumption in itself, I don't feel like it was at all because of my mental image of feminism, and much more about how we understand speech and language. (It's very rare that somebody gives you two options that not only aren't mutually exclusive, but one of them entirely includes the other, which I think is why I assumed that wasn't the case).
Oh, the article you mentioned says exactly that. Nice.
@geoffdavids7647 yeah it should be phrased "a bank teller who has a variety of opinions"
@@joshcryerhuh? What does that add? Every human has that. The feminist also has that. It adds nothing.
1:44, This was very clever. Ever since i saw that video about 37, i just keep finding it everywhere now
The bank teller working at Bank 37 too
I'm so happy that Kahneman's herritage is still contributed, he did so much for the experimental cognitive studies, and his book "thinking fast and slow" is one of the most important books in my life, because it got me interested in this field of study, which I hope I could connect my academuc careere
15:33 is dripping with irony
This is the BEST channel on RUclips hands down absolutely love watching your content!
The berry example may have more to do with linguistics than memory. Most people are probably not aware of any technical definition for fruits and berries. All they have are examples which they've had to mentally connect for themselves. So what they mean when they say "berry" or "fish" or "tree", has more to do with how they interact with it than with particular cladistic taxonomic definitions. The person putting tomatoes in a fruit salad or responding "I don't know, CAN you use the restroom?" is definitely the one making the mistake, not people employing language the way it's commonly used
“If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story.” - Orson Welles
We quite appropriately have a saying in danish; "Når enden er god, er alting godt", which translates to "If the end is good, everything is good".
The equivalent of "all's well that ends well".
“The end justifies the means,” yeah, a noble sentiment.
@WinstonSmithGPT I think one implies personal suffering that leads to a benefit while the other tries to justify making others suffer for a supposed good.
Not exactly one to one
in dutch we say practicly the same. ''eind goed, al goed''
We have that statement too, twice:
All's well that ends well,
The ends justify the means.
And more that support them,
Any means necessary,
By all means.
Also, "the experiencing self" vs "the remembering self": only a small point, but an important one that is aligning more and more with current neuroscience (and apparently Theravada Buddhism for the past 2500 years) stating that there is no "self".
The resuts of the colonoscopy and simlar trials which claim to show representativeness at work may also have other explanations: By reducing the intensity of the discomfort, the subject gains exposure, but the stimulus fades, possibly creating the impression that they've gotten used to the pain and have "mastered it."
Conversly, I remember there being expriments on rats where the rat is basically trapped in a tube until they give up trying to escape. The non-control rats are allowed to escape the tube early prior to the experiment. Therats who remember escaping the tube persisted much longer than the control rats. (Or something like that.)
I am glad you showed the footage of the dog playing with the flowers.
My favourite element just uploaded
Umm... Actually veritasium is not actually an element. 🤓🤓🤓
checkmate thought god
@@squishy-tomatoAnd the element of cheeky Wordplay
Derek: People prefer pain
Theon Greyjoy: MAKE IT STOOOOP
Surat No. 2 Ayat NO. 28
How can you be ungrateful to Allah Who bestowed life upon you when you were lifeless then He will cause you to die and will again bring you back to life so that you will be returned to Him.
Surat No. 52 Ayat NO. 35
35 Were they created out of nothing, or are they their own creators?
Surat No. 52 Ayat NO. 36
36 Did they create the heavens and the earth? No! They have no
@@GamerGamer-z5sGo away.
please don’t start making thumbnails like this. please. i’m begging you
What am I missing or did he change it?
Same question, whats so special?
No clue which one you're talking about I've seen 3 ones for this video alone hahah
We'll never know
@@wbeelig he's talking about the two buttons meme. Although why did he change that?
Ohhh this actually explains something! I started a summer job which i both like and deeply dislike and yet i keep going because i know the time spent won't matter when i think back on it!
“Putting something unpleasant at the end reduces the total perceived quality”
*proceeds to put an ad at the end of the video*
That's intentional
@@BondJFK he's intentionally trying to leave a negative impression of his video in our mind? a very interesting ploy
So is every single ad ever a wholly unpleasant experience?
This comment is stolen by OF bots and they got more likes, help report the bots if you see it
“Left the tip in” is crazy😂
Aliens trying to invade
"WHY DO THEY LOVE WAR SO MUCH?"
Average Human
"No pain, No gain."
I've been watching your since the early years. You've greatly improved!
I am reminded of the saying about rock climbers... the best climbers are the ones with the worst memory.
It goes back to the idea of type 2 fun. If you are not familiar with type 2 fun, type 2 fun is fun that is not fun in the moment, but we remember it fondly after the fact.
the peak of most of my holidays was the most miserable bit: are we all just masochists?