BUSTING MYTHS: Use ANY Frame Rate in ANY Country [Without Flickering Lights] | 24/30/60FPS 25/50FPS
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- Can you shoot in 24FPS, 30FPS or 60FPS in a PAL country or 25/50FPS in an NTSC country without flickering lights? Yes you can! In this video, I show you how.
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![Does 24FPS REALLY Look More Cinematic Than 30FPS [Or 60]?](/img/1.gif)
Fascinating, I never gave it much thought and always just assumed shutter speed should be double the framerate (24fps at 1/50th for instance). But I guess almost all of my resources are either American or Canadian 😂😂 Thanks for going in depth about it and providing an explanation I never knew I needed!
😎🍻
@@JorisHermans 🍻
You have the charisma to explain simple video concepts in a very beautiful way
I tell you.. You nailed it.... This was the topic I was hunting for years... Thanks for the info. And solution.. Your are F....🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. Magical
Yeah! 😎💥
Now go tell Sony to not bother us with a popup about wrong regions. Also tell them to allow h265 in 25/30p mode too
Love the color grading & lighting of your videos👏🏾.
Absolutely brilliant - never thought of altering the shutter speed/180 rule. Good news here in the UK; domestic tungsten bulbs have largely been replaced with LED types so this helps but, fluorescents are still around and probably will be for some time.
I had this very doubt running in my mind for a few days!
Right then here it is! Thanks alot ! 🙌🏻
👊🏻💥
Joris u just cleared this up for me. I've actually been testing out what u explained n it worked. Now I know I can break that rule, just didn't know how to conpensate with light. 👍🏻 Thanks man. By the way, your 30fps style is beautiful. Makes your videos appear crystal like glitters. Super nice
It's funny how different the comments are: Some people love the 30fps, some hate it, and most don't see a difference... 😄
@@JorisHermans 😀 I imagine the diverse opinions on 30fps. Trust me, I used to hate it too, I'm a 24fps guy. But MKBHD's 30fps style began changing my mind but then again, he shots on 8k Red, so when u brought the topic up again, I was interested in ur result cos u use Mirrorless like me. And bam!, your result was actually beautiful. Made you look crystally crips n heavenly 😊 My conclusion, 30fps will look great in a controlled set like indoors, I'm not too sure about other scenarios where u can't use lighting effectively to conpensate
Thank you Joris from Algeria, it was very helpful.
Great video as always! One thing to note though is that if you're shooting on a Sony A7iii (not sure if this affects other cameras), the footage at 4K 30fps will be somewhat cropped as it does not use all of the full frame sensor, possibly to compensate for the extra frames. So I keep mine at 24fps using PAL (I'm in Europe). I guess if I ever shoot in America I can just bump up the shutter speed to 1/60th to prevent the flickering!
THANK YOU Joris! You just saved our shoot today!😊
Teh red link is realy helpfull. I will be shooting in all shutter speeds, so 50 fps in europe, I am good for any shutter speed. Nice one :)
Hi folks, another thing to be aware of is that modern TV sets can deal with a wide assortment of frame rates. The NTSC/PAL standards covered much more than just frame rates - how the colour (color!) was encoded in the analog TV signal for example, most of which does not apply with modern digital displays. (NTSC = National System Television Committee, PAL = Phase Alternate Line).
Thank you for this
Thank the lord for this simple video! You have a new subscriber. Lee - UK
30p with 1/50 shutter speed looks amazing from what little I was able to sample here. All the smoothness I could want involving background and stuff like facial expressions/speech synchronization, but the blur for movement looks just like cinematic 24. I know you already switched back to 24, but could you please do more in this 30p-1/50 shutter speed format? Perhaps a full cinematic shot like the fair grounds or the evening walk done that way? Just as an experiment to compare against 24p-1/50 and 30p-1/60?
You should look this video, it's more detailed.
ruclips.net/video/0kAuDuV9K9U/видео.html&ab_channel=PhotoJoseph
Thanks you clear up my confusion!
Exactly what I needed, thanks 😃
Great video 👍. After watching one of your last video I am testing 30fps in UK. I used to do 24 and 25fps. It requires a tad bit of more light but in bright light it actually is advantageous, so I don't need Nd filter so much.
yeah you are right 120 fps in ntsc will not be able to change the flicker in PAL countries, but it does not apply if you do it walking around at night in PAL countries full of led lights and different bulbs, especially with your camera settings ntsc 30-60 fps, because you will soon be changing the shutter speed frequently
These tips are valid. However, there is another way... Buy good led bulbs :) Those that have a proper AC to DC converter will not flicker. On any settings. And if you buy a studio lighting you will never ever see this effect on any camera settings :)
I see subtle skipped or missing frames in 25 or 50 fps videos on a PC screen from RUclips. The screen refresh is 60Hz, and therefore 25 or 50 do not divide evenly into the screens refresh rate.
Hah! Great to see this demonstration following my comment and your reply on that video! Much appreciated!
I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU EXPLAINING THIS STUFF SO SUCCINCTLY !!!!! AWESOME JOB !!!!! INTERESTING TO BOOT. I HAVE SUBSCRIBED AND LIKED THIS VID BECAUSE IT'S SO GOOD.
AMAZING! This solved the issue so easily. THANK YOU THANK YOU!!
That was very helpful.
if you are using this idea for a client and you shoot using this and they want the footage for broadcast you will get your footage rejected. He should have covered that.
While his work around does indeed work this could end up costing you a client or a job. There is a standardisation for a reason
I do enjoy his videos tho and i'm glad he brought this up
Thanks this fixed my problem! I set my camera to PAL and set the shutter speed to 1/50
in my case I use cob led stripes that at maximum power work perfectly without flickering, but changing the power adds a type of flicker that gets worse as I reduce the brightness of the led, and I still haven't found a shutter speed that solves this problem.
your video is very useful anyway. Thanks.
THANK YOU SO MUCH
LMAO, that shutter tool is part of what I based my most recent comment on, lol. 25p 1/40 works in any country, is an integer frame-rate (no re-encoding mess by youtube or mismatched timeline possibility) and has just a slight bit more motion blur due to the 1/40 shutter that looks just a touch extra creamy to compensate the 1 extra frame making it look a touch extra smooth.
I remember one of my earlier videoshoots where I had to film around a campus in Brussels. All of the lights were totally normal and didn't have any problems at all! No flickering!
*UNTIL* we got to the lobby. There were mixed lights EVERYWHERE!! Some were fine, some weren't. And if I changed shutter speed for some of the lights, the others would mess up. And if I compensated for THOSE, then the original ones would start to flicker! That was a real nightmare!
I use Deband tool of Davinci Resolve 18.1 to remove the banding with adequate settings to not alter too much the footage. The result seems good. The Deband tool works.
I knew this but still you made me root for the cause even more. Great video.
Uh what do I do if I cannot adjust shutterspeed on my camera? On my phone?
Thank you so much, you're a life-saver! I live in a PAL country and a set my Canon G7X Mark II in Auto and Manual and my videos were flickering SO BAD. But in Brazil the frequency is 60 hertz, maybe that's why? 🤔
Plus, I love this effect of 30 fps slow movement since I was a kid (I never studied photography, but Canadian movies have this slow and smooth effect - comparing to American ones - and I could distinguish both just by that.)
You are right. Unfortunately with NTSC- Framerates in a PAL country like Switzerland, where I live, you can't take clips in slow motion (120 FPS), there is no way to avoid flickering, as you confirm in your video. But 30 FPS at 1/50 sec. and 60 FPS at 1/100 second work fine.
Blij dat er is een Belg op RUclips zit met video's over filmen. En ik moet zeggen, even hoog niveau dan de bekendste Amerikanen/Canadezen. Pas een R6 gekocht dus voor mij interessant dat ge ook uw kleine Canon gebruik soms, A7 Siii is uiteraard zalig. Goed kanaal man.
Tof dat meer landgenoten de weg naar m'n kanaal vinden! 👊🏻💥🇧🇪🍻
Great video, but what if you shoot in 24fps? should we use 1/40 shutter speed?
Très bonne mise au point sur le sujet ! 😀
Fantastic as always - thanks Joris 🙏🏻
Hi Joris thanks for the information🙂 I came across your channel whilst I was searching 'for how to film in 30fps in PAL?' and your video came up in search. Love how good the colours and everything look on this video it is beautiful, liked and subbed 🙂quick question I am in the UK so PAL and it annoys me that I can't shoot in 30fps to achieve that ever so slightly slowed down footage in a 25fps timeline that you can get when you film in NTSC at 30fps in a 24fps timeline. If I switch to filming NTSC do I use a shutter speed of 1/50th for both 24 and 30fps does that work?
It has nothing to do with PAL or NTSC. It has to do with the frequency of the power grid, which is what made lights flicker. This still happens if you have the old type bulb or fluorecent light. It does not, however, happen with LED, Halogen or anything else that has an adapter between the power grid and the actual light.
I really love your videos!!! You're helping me out like a loooot!!!
Thanks Joris!!! It help me a lot.
The ZVE1 automatically can detect and set the correct shutter speed to eliminate flicker.
Thanks man, I just switched for today recording from 25 to 30fps and after downloading footage I realised that I doubled my shutter speed. And I have flickering that will sadly be part of the video. No time for re-recording.
DaVinci Resolve has a Deflicker tool. Haven't tried it myself yet so I don't know how good it is and I'm also not 100% sure if it's available in the free version.
@@JorisHermans Yes, I tried it and it seems doing wonders.
thanks bro for the video..really helpful!
Now let me tell you something you dont know ;) im also in Belgium and the lights flicker in 25 and 50 fps while sticking to the 180 shutter angle rule…. Reason: cheap lights from aliexpress everywhere!!! They are all 60hz and people just dont care when they buy them… those cheap lights on venues, ceremonies….. dinner places …. Restos…. Are killing me! And the only way to get over it to set your system to ntsc … why? Because 50p slowed down to 25 in post while not going with 180 shutter angle rule looks crap!… and you know that… not to mention 100 fps… that buttery smooth 100p that we all love gets ruined by those cheap lights on weddings. I hate DJs asking to turn the lights off and leaving the colorfuls only….
I have two lamps written on them the same frequency and they are not identical 😂
THIS ACTUALLY WORDED. subscribed and liked just for this thanks.
the problem nowadays is dimming. some led lights use pulse width modulation to get dimming, especially stage lights and this duration does not match anything. So "normal" caonsumer cameras would flicker in any shutterspeed setting. I even ran into a problem where i needed to film 3 screens and they flickered at different shutterspeeds. One was flicker free at 1/40 one at 1/50 and one flickered no matter what shutter speed i chose ... the only thing that helps are sometime cameras that let you choose the exact shutter speed for example 1/53 of a second and not just 1/3 stop increments but sometimes the flicker will not get away no matter what you do
I have this issue at work, when they have an event and want me to film it. They never have the house lights on full, they choose one of the many dimmable settings (there's about 11 levels! and never use the same one!), and I just cannot find the frame rate and/or shutter speed to eliminate the banding. So frustrating!
Thanks for sharing!
At 120fps I shoot in 172.8° (1/250s) and there is no flickering at all 🤔
I don’t get why you say that there is no safe way to shoot in 120fps
(In france, so, PAL country)
Probably LED lights then. Here in Belgium it doesn't work with regular lights. And I'm not just saying it: www.red.com/flicker-free-video
Nice video. How about DJI drones for example to avoid the flickering’ any suggestions?
This happens with me at football games when using 120fps the lower my shutter speed it starts to go away so instead of 250th I drop it to like 200th and it goes away
What country are you in / pal or ntsc?
Try Deband tool in Davinci Resolve 18.1 free version. I think there is one Deflicker tool as well but not in the free version. You need to buy the studio version. I don’t have yet the paid version studio. Deband blend well the banding. It is at least not very noticeable after applying it. It is free so you can test yourself and render the footage if it works..
Hey Joris! Nice video, thank you! I have a question, Does that apply to horizontal black bands going up in the video? or just that flicker from your video. Because that type of flicker can be resolved with deflicker in post, right? But i'm having a hard time finding solution for fixing in post the horizontal black bands... :( any tips?
Thanks for this. Top man!
There is no need to shoot in PAL. It is standard for ANALOG television broadcast. Today all content is digital. And even if you want to broadcast most countries use DVB
Nonsense. TV's in Europe are 50hz and TV-stations require you to shoot in 25 or 50fps.
I never understood why I should use 1/60 for 30 FPS anyways (besides getting rid of flickering in NTSC countries of course), why would you want a different amount of motion blur when shooting in another frame rate? I think many people take the 180° rule too literally just because it happened to be the perfect amount for 24 fps back when it was mechanically necessary.
Any solutions for flickering stage lights for music shows? I’ve shot in 1/60, 1/50 and had flicker on both. Only was able to really get away without flicker if I shot 1/40
I was having problems with some LED lights at a trade show in Japan. Should had adjusted but I did not.
ALSO - u need to explain some old strip lighting will ALWAYS cause strobing - whatever you do
I have footage with NTSC and PAL... 23.976 FPS, 24 FPS, 25 FPS... can I combine this footage in Davinci Resolve? Won't there be stretching and weird stuff? Thanks
Thanks a lot!
"don't tell me in the comments that I don't know that the f*** I'm talking about' ahhhhh haaa! awesome moment!! great video, this is what I needed to know!
Thanks that was an awesome tip!!! Quick question are you still filming in 30 frames per second ? Is this video shot in 30 fps? Thanks in advance for everything👍🏾😀!!!
Yes! Two more weeks I'll shoot everything in 30fps and then I'll make a video on my findings and what I like best 😎👊🏻💥
@@JorisHermans Awesome can’t wait to see what you think!!! Love your vids!!👍🏾
Which is better for ntsc 24 fps 1/60 or 30 fps 1/60. The 30 doesn’t break the rule 1/2x
omg, saved my life ! Thank you sir
thanks brother!!
This just happend to me. My canon r6mkii and sony fs5 are fine but my older canon t3i shows flicker at any shutter speed with one of my westscott camera lights. never had this issue and the bulbs are supose to be anti flicker...ahhhhh!
Hi Joris. Thanks for the video! I m in PAL country region\. And I can see 100 and 150 fps are enabled in my R6II. When I shoot in 150 even though I follow 180 rule my video flickers while i playback, It does not flicker while recording. But no problem when I shoot in 100fps with or without 180 rule! Is this normal?
Thanks for the enlighting video. There is NO?! Combination with 120FPS in Pal Country? So no shutter works? Great Video thank you!
No, but in a studio environment, good quality LED lights usually don't cause flicker.
@@JorisHermans Thank you so much for reply!, sad BC i also live in PAL Country would be too nice to have that option also. But never the less i think i will shoot nor more on 30 fps :)
How to enable 24p settings.? I am from India.
I want to shoot 180 fps in outdoor artificial lighting condition in India how to get rid of flicker in that case
Thank you🎉
So 24th a will be shot what 1/100? Or 1/50 current shutter for 24 is 1/48
it works man
Heyho, another EU Pleb here. Maybe this is Camera dependent? I get very different results using a Sony ZV1. I use tft monitors with 60 Hz and background LEDs, which in PAL-Land should be 50Hz, and as they are decoration and not for Filmmaking, they do flicker (actually my cheap 5v ones from china do not flicker, the "good" expensive 12v ones from Germany do flicker).
If I use NTSC 60 fps recording, I get no flicker at 1/40. Everything above has LED flicker. On some settings more than on others. About 1/100-125 is ok, but still clearly visible.
If I use PAL 50fps instead, that LED flicker is gone. On 1/40 I also get the best picture (just in terms of flicker). However: If I increase it to 50 or 60, I get flicker - but this time not from the LEDs but from my Monitor, which obviously in that setup is also a light source. On 1/80 it's fine again. Going higher to 100, 125, or anything more, I do get flicker from the Screen again.
As I am usually recording games on 30/60 fps, recording the cam on NTSC felt like the better idea. But then I basically have to live with some flicker with 1/100 and remove it in edit (in Addition Sony sucks by forcing a NTSC notification message on me every single time when starting).
With PAL I get a great picture on 1/80, but ofc it introduces light choppyness by having 50 fps and lower shutter speed.
Any thoughts on that or possible explanations? Besides of that the Sony ZV1 sucks?
You just saved my life! 👍
I dont get it I live in a PAL country and every light is okey whetever i use 25/50/100 FPS or switch to NTSC with 24/30/60/120 my kitchen light flicker around like crazy even if I break the 180° SR. For example I use 25FPS/50SS Still flicker/25/40 25/60 Still there I don't get it.
i change shutter speed to 1/50th at 30fps ?
Great video.
It is annoying that the manufacturers keep calling it PAL and NTSC, since both those are analog colour broadcast formats. Also PAL commes in both 50Hz and the PAL-M that is 60Hz.
Just streamline the whole thing already, right? 🤷🏻♂️
I wish I found this video years ago! 👌🏾
What about actions cameras? When shooting with auto settings (variable shutter speed/ISO), should I record with 25/50 fps or 30/60 fps? Or it doesn’t matter since the shutter speed is not being controlled? (I also live in a PAL country)
I was searching form half an hour for 120 fps fliker free settings. = in the end what I get there is no fliker free combination for that 😂😂. Thank you 💓 I am satisfied now otherwise I would be be confused all the time 🤣🤣 my mind is free now 😂❤ I just need to invest in nd filter now
ND filter giveaway coming up in a few weeks 😎🔥
@@JorisHermans waiting 🕺❤️💥💥
My Lumix S5Miix also has a 24Hz CINEMA system frequency mode, can anyone help me understand what that means & if I can use it without as much math in both NTSC & PAL countries? 😆
I know it works, but wouldnt shooting 60fps and using 1/50 .... is too slow?!
Any solution for iPhone? I just shot 4K 60fps with iPhone and all the Christmas decoration lights are flickering like crazy.
In UK I experience flicker on a iMac Retina display with fixed refresh rate of 60. This is with an IPevo document camera where I can set refresh rate to 50 or 60. Set at at 60 I get flicker when room led batten which is flicker free.
When I connect the IPevo camera to MacBook where I can alter refresh to 50 I get NO flicker when room lights on!
Very puzzling as room led batten is allegedly flicker free. When I use usb leds no issue. Why issue with iMac and not with MacBook.
It would appear that the room leds are not flicker free as advertised.
Any ideas?
And when I change my shutter speed, my fps, my fps and my shutter speed and that light keeps flickering? What should I do? I was shooting pal in a pal country
Motion blur itself will still have flicker, but this isn’t very noticeable
Is it true that you can get slightly better video quality on PAL as it has slightly more lines of resolution?
that only applies to non-hd resolutions:
480p30 ntsc = 576p25 pal
480i60 ntsc = 576i50 pal
480p60 ntsc = 576p50 pal
720p30 ntsc = 720p25 pal
720p60 ntsc = 720p50 pal
1080p30 ntsc = 1080p25 pal
1080i60 ntsc = 1080i50 pal
1080p60 ntsc = 1080p50 pal
This gets even trickier when editing and choosing which speed is your timeline. For example im in a pal country. I want to film at 4k 30 fps so how much do i set my shutter speed to so i dont get flicker then my timeline fps so i dont get stutter. Tricky stuff
1/50th / timeline 30fps 🤝🏻
im kinda new at this but isnt there the 180 degree rule shouldnt it be 1/60@@JorisHermans
stick it to ‘em, papi!
My girlfriend cringes hard when you call me papi 😅
@@JorisHermans hahaha best anniversary gift you can give her is to refer to yourself as papi in a video. immortalize the cringe.
Can't do it on a gopro.
Does your computer monitor do 50hz or 60hz? That would affect the playback of your footage.
At 30/60 fps + 1/100 shutterspeed, will the digital stabilization be good enough to manage handheld, bumpy filming? (I'm using dji osmo action 3) I don't have, or plan to buy a gimbal at this point so I need to rely on inbuilt digital stabilization of the camera.
Nice tip.
I got banding by filming a christmas tree and other christmas decor light in Canada at fps 24 and shutter speed 1/50. So flickering is linked to shutter speed not Fps. Probably i should have used 1/60 shutter speed or used 1/30 shutter speed.
Didn’t see it on camera, only visible on the big monitor. I removed banding with the Deband tool in Davinci Resolve 18.1
I use a Lumix G70 set to service mode to get 60fps > Elgato Cam Link to stream via OBS. Now I bought an LED Logo on Etsy and it flickers horribly when not on full brightness. I changed flicker reduction on the camera multiple times but cannot make the thing not flicker or lower brightness :( my country's power frequency is 50hz but I don't wanna stream in 50fps
whats better, 30fps 1/50 or 30fps 1/100 ?