What the... math is for nerds dude. I didn't come to your channel to make my head hurt. I just wanna be able to shoot naked ladies. :) If you weren't so beautiful, yourself, I would have turned off the video. xD
Hi Joseph, i tried to shoot some Slow Motion with my GH5 today (Color in Water etc..) Indoor Light (LED) / FHD 180fps / 180d Shutter Angle : FLICKERING nonstop :-((((( is there ANY chance to get indoor footage with 180fps without flickering?
Brilliantly explained Joseph. And your graphics add an extra element to the topic. You clearly know what you're talking about and are a true pro. Thank you so much for this amazing video.
This was brilliant. Extremely well made, very informative while keeping to the point, and excellent use of graphics. Best breakdown of this topic that I've come across.
I had thought the more lights I use the video will come out better. Like an idiot, I shot the entire recipe only to find later that it has these rolling bands. I was heartbroken because I had bought a new smartphone just for the camera, the previous one didn't have that problem. It first took me time to explain the issue on google then I finally found your video. Thanks
oh my god joseph, you opened my eyes one more time. only with the 100 or 120 peaks per second I found it difficult. I would have wished for a pointed graphic with two pointed ones that had been folded up. Thank you very much. The video is well explained! Please keep it up !!!
Thank you so much. Your video was extremely helpful. I am in India and my 5d mark iv was set to ntsc and I was'nt understanding why was I getting this flicker at 120 fps. I switched to PAL and now there is no flicker although the fps is reduced to 100 fps. But i'm happy that I can shoot slow moting in low light situations without getting flicker. Thank you once again Joseph.
I really like the shutter angle option on the GH5s. I have Phillips Hue bulbs and everything below 100% produces flicker for me. Even 95% brightness. I'll often have to change the shutter angle to 173 degrees in order to completely remove flicker, and even then I still notice it a bit in post. Luckily DaVinci Resolve has a built-in de-flicker tool that does a great job, especially when there is just minimal flicker. I've heard of people having issues with the Godox SL60W light, but I haven't noticed anything in my testing. This helps though! I haven't tested anything high speed yet, hoping I can get something working at 120fps.
Totally subscribed to your channel! Thank you so much for all the valuable info. I've been trying to shoot at 30, but again, the flickering. I just selected 216 shutter angle and flicker went away! Thank you
Very interesting topic and great video! So, there‘s a couple of things I wonder about. 1. With more and more indoor lights becoming LEDs isn’t the NTSC/PAL situation becoming a thing of the past? 2. Why can GoPros and many Smartphones shoot at 60 fps in PAL-regions without issues? Shouldn‘t they be region locked as well? 3. If I were to stream just the HDMI-output of let‘s say the GH5 set to 1080p/60 in a PAL region, and not press the filming button would the same problems occur? Sorry, if these have already been answered. Cheers Dan
Great video on he math of lights and video. Another great subject would be to talk about fluorescent tube style bulb lights like in an office environment. Some older style fluorescent bulbs shift color temperature so while you're shooting in that environment, your video's color balance is shifting from green to blue and back to green. Newer bulbs don't do this but take it from experience, the older bulbs are still out there and will make you pull your hair out.
No… you do manual white balance so your WB doesn’t change. As the colors change a bit as you pass by different lights, that’s acceptable. The viewer can accept that because that’s real life. But if your WB is changing in response to the light, then the entire scene will change as you move the camera (the walls, the people, etc.) and that won’t look good. Manual WB is your friend here.
@PhotoJoseph is absolutely correct but this happened to me in 2005 with a Canon XL1 camera. This went totally against everything we were taught in tv video production. You were to white balance the camera using a white card and you went with that as your white balance. Most tv cameras then didn’t have auto white balance so you got screwed when this happened. At that point, you’d color correct your video and dissolve between them to achieve a close to correct white balance.
I have subscribed and will be following. I wish I had all of this info a while back it would’ve save me a ton of time and frustration in my work. Great Video this was very much on point.. Thank you for your work.....
i watched this because my new iphone 12 pro max is having a flickering problem under fluorescent white bulb and white walls.. it flickers like crazy. I found that it wasn't the phone but it is actually normal, your video re'assured me. thank you very much
FLICKER - choose your font carefully when using this word, I remember a children's comic which gave away some FLICK cards as a cover mounted gift, the ink from the L bled into the I making a U. Just seeing your RUclips poster image reminded me of this story.
Thank you for the explanation it was really helpful video 👍 since i live in a country using 50 hertz AC power… every time i get flicker when i shoot above 50 fps
Great video, I learned a ton...but something I may have misunderstood. I shoot my videos in my workshop which has LED tubes on the ceiling and I bring in my own LED lights for additional lighting. I'm in the US and bulbs themselves say 50/60hz which I assume means in the US they are 60hz, in Europe they're 50hz. I just started shooting 4k where I'm now noticing some rolling banding. I used 23.976fps and 1/50 and got the banding. If I understand this correctly if I shoot 30fps, it really doesn't matter what the shutter is but I won't get banding. OR if I shoot 23.976fps I should be using 1/40 shutter speed, not 1/50. With all that being said, it seems the sweet spot for me would be 30fps (actually 29.976) and 1/60th shutter? Is that correct? Now i'm off to figure out how to remove the banding in post from the last tutorial I shot
@@photojoseph What's interesting is I'm still getting very subtle banding when shooting 29.97 and 1/60 (USA). I can't see it much when watching at normal speed but if I speed up a clip, which I do often, you can definitely see the rolling banding.
@@dellsdiy not familiar enough with that camera but one would think it’s accurate. (BTW the framerate is 29.97 or 23.976, but not 29.976). What are the lights?
I was curious what camera and lens you shot this with. Thanks for putting it in the description. Looks great and super informative and clearly explained content as well
Awesome explanation! What kind of LEDs would you (or anyone reading this) to use in a small room to record a hobby? I put up 2 shop light leds and I get nothing but banding with my GoPro hero 11 in time lapse mode. I can fix it in normal recording (fps 30 shutter speed 120) but I would like to avoid banding all together
So glad there's a solution, since I'm about to purchase some LED spotlights for RUclips videos. Thank you so much for this video, I was about to scrap my whole lighting design! I wanted to ask a question though - when dimming 220V AC LED GU10 bulbs, do you expect the math behind the cycles to change? Would it still fluctuate at 50 Hz? I'm trying to work around any possible issues by getting the best dimmer and bulbs I can afford, but dimming them was part of my plan, as 10W spots are quite focused and bright.
If you’re using conventional dimmers then all bets are off. I believe conventional dimmers work by altering the cycle. Professional lights dim differently. If you’re talking about building a set using off the shelf lights, I’d advise that you put that money into video lighting systems. There are thousands of affordable options these days. Just look on Amazon.
I'd appreciate any advice on this dilemma: I'm shooting with stage lights soon and NONE of the standard shutter speeds neutralise the banding. Thank god my FX30 has a variable shutter setting - only when I use shutter speed 1/53 - yes, *53*, does the banding disappear. My Sony A6400 does NOT have this option, I'm stuck with standard shutter speeds, NONE of them eliminate the banding. Is there ANY way to get a more precise shutter speed on the A6400? I'm in Australia - unbelievable, shooting at 1/50 resulted in banding. I've checked via NTSC as well as PAL but I'm aware that frame rate is not the problem, it's shutter speed (and my NTSC / PAL tests proved this, the banding was exactly the same in each case - but my A6400 has no way of setting a shutter speed of 53). Thanks...
Without syncroscan (that ability to adjust shutter angle/speed precisely), you’re out of luck. Most likely the reason you’re shorting at that weird 1/53 is they’re using dimmers on the lights. I’d be concerned that this will change on show day. My advice is to buy or rent another FX30.
@@photojoseph Yep! I was going to add to my post "please don't tell me the obvious thing which is to buy another FX30"... I can't magic up the money - or the associated rig - in time... but y'know, I've revisited my test video and I think if I set the a6400 up as a medium-wide shot (static), banding is going to be hopefully very minimal. It's only a real problem when I am close up on anything on that stage. I'm also going to re-test all of this with the support band first, so I have maybe some wiggle room for problem solving. Thanks though - appreciate the response!
@BendeHoedt right on. There are techniques in post for reducing flicker as well. I’d watch those first and maybe run some tests with your test footage. Good luck!
hey man! thank you for this wonderful video. I just knew about your channel, now I'm subscribed because of this amazing explanation. I've been giving my studio setup (with a computer monitor as side light) a trial and error to avoid flickers... yeah, my monitor flickers now... adjusted to 30fps = 1/60th shutter speed (minimal flicker) but it's natural. Now, I will just have to compensate a little more with LED lights to upgrade my small room into a mini studio (like yours, except with the RGB background - can't afford RGB LEDs for now haha) CHEERS! Looking forward to more videos from you. I'll try to make my own video about my experience for my future studio setup. thanks to you man!
Thanks for this video Joseph. It was helpful. I'm designing an old style telecine box to convert 8mm movies to digital through a first surface mirror and back projection. My big worry (and what would stop me getting out the saw) is that I'll either get flicker or slow moving bands caused by beat frequency oscillation that I won't be able to remove just by choosing the correct settings. If the projector isn't perfectly constant at 16fps then the two systems will drift out of sync. Any suggestions as to a strategy? Should I go for a high multiple of 16 or long shutter speed? I know this was almost impossible to tackle in analogue videos cameras. [Before anyone comments: Yes I know I should ideally scan them frame at a time but I don't want to 1) Buy a Wolverine Scanner as I don't like the results for the money. 2) Pay someone else as it would cost more than a Wolverine for the first batch and I'm planning on making more. 3) The results only have to be good-enough. 4) I like tinkering and have the components to hand - maybe one day I'll build a frame by frame scanner but not yet].
Wow that’s quite a project. And LOL at your “before anyone comments” as that’s exactly what I was going to say! 😂 The big problem I see is “what if the film frame changes during that video frame’s exposure”, which could come down to just luck; keep shooting until you’re lucky enough to start them together. The second problem is frame rate - 16 isn’t in any digital cameras. However if you shoot at 48fps (possible in cameras like the S1H and GH6, I believe - the more cine oriented cameras) then at least that’s an even divisor of 16, so you won’t have drift (48/16=3). So, yeah… 48fps and fingers crossed!
@@photojoseph Thanks for advice. The problem has solved itself. The bulb on my projector blew and there was a good deal on a cheap frame by frame scanner in Amazon Warehouse. It will arrive today. I'll see if I can tweak the results to my liking in post. I've been dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century!
right im in the uk so my nikon d850 in slow motion 4× should be 50 or 100 shutter speed under street lights , il have a play tonight 😊 cheers buddy (slow mo minimum is 25 fps ) il put that to my.left side of my brain for now , concentrate on shutter speed 😕
Yes except for some reason I was still getting rolling bars at my last venue even with 60hz power, 30fps and 1/30. First time in a very long time it's been a issue. Something more must have been going on with the lights they were using or dimmer switch.
So using my iPhone at 240 FPS I get flicker. If I change to an LED that screws into my socket on the ceiling the flicker goes away? The flicker is annoying when I am trying to review my golf swing. Do you have any specific LED recommendations. Nice video.
Good morning from the UK. Thank you for this video. I have a question please. To your knowledge, how to Hollywood movies avoid these flickers as they clearly use artificial light in many instances. For example, the John Wick movies 'on set' or the movie 'Nobody' where there's slow motion action on the bus. These all use artificial light. I have two cameras, Sony A74 and A7s3 and sometimes come up against challenges with artificial light sources. Thanks and hopefully you can answer. Lee
I explain that in this video - lots and lots of light. Also DC instead of AC. Also, don’t disregard VFX. Also, it’s Hollywood, so there’s probably some secret sauce involved!
I don’t. There are some options and Peter McKinnon did a tutorial a couple years ago but it all depends on the scene and rate of flicker. Sorry, there’s no perfect solution that I’m aware of
Very helpful. But there at least 1 but. In most cases you have to use higher SS, then normally. So you need higher ISO. Not much but in some cases ~0.66 EV.
I just experienced this after shooting a video in a boxing gym where I used the available light. I shot this scene in 120 fps with 180°, was it because of the AC light in the gym that caused this banding flickering, I almost cried when I got home and review my footage lol
Nobody ever experienced flicker with old school hot lights like Mole Richardson or Lowel. Fluorescents, on the other hand, were a totally different story. Why do purpose built lighting for filmmaking cost so much? Because they contain custom built high frequency ballasts. This was the principle behind Kinoflo (along with custom phosphor formulations), and this is standard for all LED lighting for filmmakers. This is also why DIY solutions built from off the shelf components sourced at home centers are a waste of time for filmmaking, and why sources made for the construction industry, no thought of camera sensor scanning frequency interactions, are also no good.
Very educational and very well explained - cheers. Appreciate thorough explanations so I don't t have to search around and piece together lots of different answers from different people. Can I about your on-screen annotations - at say 5:53, what tools did you use for this?
I get the 50/60hz fix but what about 400hz? At 24/25 frames what should my shutter speed be? Its aircraft cabin lighting that flickers when I filmed recently
Aircraft lighting flickers at 400Hz?! That’s wild. Trial and error with a camera that can do syncroscan is probably necessary. Also I doubt that the frequency is consistent. I’d imagine that the Hz changes as the engines rev up or down. Watch this video too if you haven’t already: ruclips.net/video/1qcOAOK8_eY/видео.htmlsi=vz4X4gk18BoHl1-F
This will be helpful when making future videos, but is there any software or technique that can fix video that we've already shot? I can't go back (geography) and the video would be amazing if I can get rid of the strobe effect.
Thank you for this. I have a shoot in one day and I want to record in 24fps. I’m from Europe so 50hz. I also will need to shoot in high-framerates such as 120fps. The red website is saying there is no safe shutter angle for 120fps in 50hz. Should I instead take 96fps with 345 shutter angle? Is 96 good looking / reliable in 50hz region with 345 shutter angle? I would appreciate the answer!
If you don’t have a flicker then it’s good looking. “Good” is arbitrary. Go as high fps as you can without flicker. The math doesn’t lie; follow the red chart.
@@photojoseph won’t 96 fps with a shutter angle of 345.6 look way too blurry? I just noticed that my 6k pro doesn’t offer 96 fps for the highest sensor resolution. It only goes up to 50 or 48. Would you rather choose 48 fps and highest sensor quality or lower quality with cropped sensor and higher fps? Thank you for the quick answer!
It is not. Shutter angle is only on GH5, GH5S and S1H. You can get close by adjusting shutter speed, but synchro scan gives you the ultimate precision.
thanks. now i know the math for next time. today's riddle: how to fix footage from before i knew the math. 75fps under 50hz lighting at 150th. Any genius solutions greatly appreciated.
Very well made but i am extremely sleep deprived and i didn't quite catch whether you covered this one issue: Basically, i get really bad flicker when i reduce the Exposure. Is there an easy way to solve this? With normal exposure the lighting is too overwhelming and blinding, but with perfect exposure i get terrible flickering.
You should explain also why you can't use the G9 in LED lights too! It's would be great to know this before photographer buy this equipment (you inserted the link to the G9 in the description).
LED lighting (good LED lighting) shouldn’t flicker, and again, this video is not about a camera. There are also GH5 and other cameras in the description - they’re under EVERY video I make.
Jog S if you’re shooting in your home region then it should not be a problem. Tell me what you’re trying to do and what’s happening and I’ll try to help, but leave the sarcasm out of it.
@@photojoseph I try to explain that you have not always a choice when you are outside and can't change the lightning conditions and I explained the problem first sarcasm free. G9 has no possibility to change anything in 180fps or 150fps mode. Evtl. it is a NTSC Model and here is PAL (50Hz) but I am not sure and can't change it. At the end I avoid to film higher frame rates under lightning conditions because I had film some slomotions and can't use it. Thx for responses...
OK… when you’re in lighting you can’t control, then yes if you are in a PAL region with an NTSC camera, then you are screwed. Of course if you live in Europe and you bought an NTSC version, I can’t help you there. You should have bought the European version of the camera (which I’ve learned is actually multi region, how nice for the Europeans!). The G9 only does high frame rate in full auto, yes. Those specs are not hidden. It’s one of the differentiators between the G9 and GH5/GH5S. And to your point about LED lighting; again as I said in this video, good LED lighting doesn’t flicker. Cheap LEDs may flicker when dimmed.
On the gh5s recorded external on atomos ninja v+ 4k60 prores raw set at 180 angle flickers in my home under ac lighting. Set to 216 does not flicker. What does that do to my video breaking the 180 rule as a set rate for ac lighting? Thanks
@@DroseMr ahhhh philips hue. That explains it. European made and flicker on US electrical system. Notorious for this. So annoying. 173d shutter will also remove it and is closer to 180d.
I went to amusement park at evening. EU, 50hz and 60hz lights mixed everywhere. I couldnt film any video that wouldnt be flickering. What you would have done in that situation? Would it be possible with some settings to avoid it? Anyone know? Thanks.
hm, unlikely there were 50 and 60 hz lighting mixed. Flickering AC lights are determined by the power frequency, which would be 50hz in the EU. I would have rolled through shutter angles looking for one that worked, and if there were particular lights that for whatever reason continued to flicker, just do my best to shoot around them!
Hey there :) great video, thanks for sharing. i am just curious what program or plug in you used for your writing animations, and your shape animations? In addition, i found this video after having my own issues. i've always followed the 180 degree rule and shoot @ 24 fps. i live in Canada so i have the 60 hz frequency. i was getting banding in my videos under florescent at 1/50 second shutter speed, but it is solved if i go to 1/60. 5:25, you mention i should be able to shoot 24fps without getting flicker, is banding different in this case? Thanks :)
What I would like to know is: Filming in PAL or NTSC and then playing on a 50 or 60 hertz TV there is no problem, is it the same? And PAL having better quality than NTSC, is it preferable to shoot whenever possible with it?
Totally different issue. Playing PAL on an NTSC TV means frames have to be added, and playing NTSC on a PAL TV means frames have to be dropped. Since the math doesn’t work (25 doesn’t divide evenly into 29.97 or vice-vera), you have to drop frames through a process called pull-down. This has nothing to do with flicker. Also, in HD, PAL is not better than NTSC. You’re thinking of SD when PAL was a larger frame than NTSC. But in HD and 4K, the frame sizes are the same, so quality is the same. You could argue that at any given bit rate, PAL is better because since there are fewer frames per second, you can have a higher quality frame, but if that’s the case then shoot 24fps, and get even better.
One question ... I wanna shoot 24p but im in india so its 50hz lights .... I only have 1/45 or 1/60 shutter speed in my sony cam (its closer to 1/48 so cinematic motion blur and stuff) wat should i use ? 1/45 or 1/60 ... Remember that im in ntsc format .
Does this mean that lights are off half of the time? If the light is off as many times as it is on in any given amount of time, then that means that the light would be off half of the time correct?
Hey Joseph! Thank you for this great explenation. These graphs really helped me to understand this flicker thing. Me and my friend are shooting on analog film. Our camera - Bolex H16 non reflex - has fixed 24 fps setting but we live in Europe (50 hz). Which is problematic - we get flicker. It's non reflex camera, means shutter angle is fixed too. In order to set our camera to shoot 25fps , we bought techometer to measure FPS. The tachometer shows 24.5fps or sometimes 25.5. Question is: how much flicker (if any) we could get if this happens? It would be awesome if you could help on this topic.
And I got this RBG bulbs that flicker no matter what :D. But their flicker is visible as moving bands across the frame. I can easily remove this in post using deflicker in Resolve, but it's still annoying.
@@photojoseph using 1/50 now while shooting 25fps (seems 172.8 is really close to 1/50). I can set this SA on my bmpcc but annoying one is Sony A6600, which does not have SA or deflicker option (variable shutter like A7IV). Not sure I can do much on A6600.
@@photojoseph I know. But I was just really surprised that recording 25p with 1/50 SS in 50Hz location gives some flicker. But I guess these bulbs got some internal electronics that creates flicker with different frequency than 50Hz (or it's multiciplity). And actually this can be removed easily with deflicher SFX in Davinci, not a big deal, although this SFX is resource hungry so for longer videos it will be quite annoying. Guess I have to start using my BMPCC6k to record tiktoks ;).
It was so many numbers but I can say I got flicker this weekend. I was on a horse competition and shooted 120fps with shuttercount at 1/250 and it was not so fun so I dropped the shutter to 1/125, it got a bit better but not so much. I had 50hz to..My goall with the film to be able to make it slowmo without losing to much quality...How had you done in my situation? I am new to premium pro too so I don't know how to edit it either...:(
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
What do you think? Did you learn anything new? I'd love to hear what you thought of this video! This was a new approach for me.
What the... math is for nerds dude. I didn't come to your channel to make my head hurt. I just wanna be able to shoot naked ladies. :) If you weren't so beautiful, yourself, I would have turned off the video. xD
😳
Hi Joseph, i tried to shoot some Slow Motion with my GH5 today (Color in Water etc..)
Indoor Light (LED) / FHD 180fps / 180d Shutter Angle : FLICKERING nonstop :-(((((
is there ANY chance to get indoor footage with 180fps without flickering?
@Rudy Kevin I would suggest Flixzone. Just search on google for it =)
Brilliantly explained Joseph. And your graphics add an extra element to the topic. You clearly know what you're talking about and are a true pro. Thank you so much for this amazing video.
Coming to this 4 years after it was produced. An excellent explanation that just make all the absolute sense. THANK YOU
Awesome, and thank you!
This was brilliant. Extremely well made, very informative while keeping to the point, and excellent use of graphics. Best breakdown of this topic that I've come across.
I had thought the more lights I use the video will come out better. Like an idiot, I shot the entire recipe only to find later that it has these rolling bands. I was heartbroken because I had bought a new smartphone just for the camera, the previous one didn't have that problem. It first took me time to explain the issue on google then I finally found your video. Thanks
So well explained! Thank you!
You’re welcome! I love how many people have found this useful!
Superb video! Thanks for the explanation 🙌🏼
oh my god joseph,
you opened my eyes one more time.
only with the 100 or 120 peaks per second I found it difficult.
I would have wished for a pointed graphic with two pointed ones that had been folded up.
Thank you very much.
The video is well explained!
Please keep it up !!!
Great explanation. I really like the graphics very educational. Keep up the good work!
Mind blown. Amazing video. THANK YOU
Thanks!!
Man, this video is the best answer to my problems! Well done! Thanks for the insight
Love hearing that!!
Record any light in an area with your phone in slow motion. If you see the light flickering in slow motion, you need to get rid of that light.
This video was EXCELLENT. Explained the concepts so well - especially with the graphics! Thank you! 👏🏻
THANK YOU!
This is very informational. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you so much. Your video was extremely helpful. I am in India and my 5d mark iv was set to ntsc and I was'nt understanding why was I getting this flicker at 120 fps. I switched to PAL and now there is no flicker although the fps is reduced to 100 fps. But i'm happy that I can shoot slow moting in low light situations without getting flicker. Thank you once again Joseph.
You're welcome, so glad this video helped!
Excellent video @photojoseph always enjoying to watch and learn from your videos!
I really like the shutter angle option on the GH5s. I have Phillips Hue bulbs and everything below 100% produces flicker for me. Even 95% brightness. I'll often have to change the shutter angle to 173 degrees in order to completely remove flicker, and even then I still notice it a bit in post. Luckily DaVinci Resolve has a built-in de-flicker tool that does a great job, especially when there is just minimal flicker. I've heard of people having issues with the Godox SL60W light, but I haven't noticed anything in my testing. This helps though! I haven't tested anything high speed yet, hoping I can get something working at 120fps.
You are totally wrong, in hollywood filmming, shutter angle should be locked in 180.
from UK i want to tell you this ... YOU ARE AMAZING Bro. Thanks
Aw thanks man, I appreciate that
Totally subscribed to your channel! Thank you so much for all the valuable info. I've been trying to shoot at 30, but again, the flickering. I just selected 216 shutter angle and flicker went away! Thank you
You are totally wrong, in hollywood filmming, shutter angle should be locked in 180.
@@动漫区漫哥 Just to give you one example; check the movie "Save The Private Ryan" and how they made the shooting scene!
@@topicruben Thank you for the information, I am going to check it.
This video is amazing. Thank you so much!
I am definitely going to have to watch this more than once! Thank you
Haha I’ve gone back and watched it myself! So much info in here. Glad you enjoyed it.
Very nice explanation, I really liked both the math and the graphics. Thank you
Thank you! This was a fun one to do. In that super geeky, break-my-brain kind of fun ;-)
Very Informative Video! Learnt a lot. Earned a new subscriber.
Welcome aboard!
thanks mate. i had a giggle during the lesson. Great tricks with ac and dc lighting. You taught me a lot in this video. Great work! Subscribed.
Awesome, and thank you!
Outstanding editing...
Thanks!
wow very interesting! keep it up i love the video very informative! excellent teacher!
Wow, you did a great job explaining flicker! Thank you so much for taking the time to put this together 🙏
Awesome Video! Production was spot on!
Thanks!!
Very informative! Thanks for sharing!
Very good information... You broke it down very well...
Thank you!
Very interesting topic and great video! So, there‘s a couple of things I wonder about.
1. With more and more indoor lights becoming LEDs isn’t the NTSC/PAL situation becoming a thing of the past?
2. Why can GoPros and many Smartphones shoot at 60 fps in PAL-regions without issues? Shouldn‘t they be region locked as well?
3. If I were to stream just the HDMI-output of let‘s say the GH5 set to 1080p/60 in a PAL region, and not press the filming button would the same problems occur?
Sorry, if these have already been answered.
Cheers
Dan
Good questions
Great video on he math of lights and video. Another great subject would be to talk about fluorescent tube style bulb lights like in an office environment. Some older style fluorescent bulbs shift color temperature so while you're shooting in that environment, your video's color balance is shifting from green to blue and back to green. Newer bulbs don't do this but take it from experience, the older bulbs are still out there and will make you pull your hair out.
No doubt!!
So how do you deal with the older bulbs? Color correct frame by frame?
No… you do manual white balance so your WB doesn’t change. As the colors change a bit as you pass by different lights, that’s acceptable. The viewer can accept that because that’s real life. But if your WB is changing in response to the light, then the entire scene will change as you move the camera (the walls, the people, etc.) and that won’t look good. Manual WB is your friend here.
@PhotoJoseph Thanks
@PhotoJoseph is absolutely correct but this happened to me in 2005 with a Canon XL1 camera. This went totally against everything we were taught in tv video production. You were to white balance the camera using a white card and you went with that as your white balance. Most tv cameras then didn’t have auto white balance so you got screwed when this happened. At that point, you’d color correct your video and dissolve between them to achieve a close to correct white balance.
High school me: I'm never going to use this crap anyways!
10 years later: ...... Ah shit
I truly needed this ! thank you
Sweet! You’re welcome!
I have subscribed and will be following. I wish I had all of this info a while back it would’ve save me a ton of time and frustration in my work. Great Video this was very much on point.. Thank you for your work.....
Thanks Aaron, I appreciate that!
Thank you for that video 🙌
You’re welcome!
Fantastic channel! This is such good and detailed information! Really helpful - thank you so much!!
Thank you!
gr8 explanation ! not sure about the changing rainbow background though, disruptive.
Well explained! You’re very easy to listen to!
This was of great help ! thank you.
Thanks! It’s a lot info for sure :-)
Excellent. Many thanks!
You silved my Problem. Europe has a 50 hertz current grid. i changed mxý fujifilm to 50 p framerate. Done. thxxxxx
Woohoo!
Very helpful - thanks!
Thanks a lot, you must work as a senior instructor. Very easy, clean, and straight explanation.
I get around :-) Thank you.
You are really good👍....well explained and nice video....
Awesome video! Exactly what I was looking for, thanks.
This is done so well. I didn't know I needed this information. Thank you so much.
i watched this because my new iphone 12 pro max is having a flickering problem under fluorescent white bulb and white walls.. it flickers like crazy. I found that it wasn't the phone but it is actually normal, your video re'assured me. thank you very much
Are your shooting slow motion? If not, are you in a PAL region? The iPhone FINALLY got PAL support in the latest update. It only took 10+ years 🙄🙄🙄
Great video, nice and clear and very useful to know, I learned a lot.
Awesome, thanks!
FLICKER - choose your font carefully when using this word, I remember a children's comic which gave away some FLICK cards as a cover mounted gift, the ink from the L bled into the I making a U. Just seeing your RUclips poster image reminded me of this story.
Hahaha
You must be a graphic designer? Ive notice it to! ;)
Thank you for the explanation it was really helpful video 👍 since i live in a country using 50 hertz AC power… every time i get flicker when i shoot above 50 fps
Hopefully now you know how to correct it!
thanks mate. saved me
Great video thank you
Thanks!
This video has great depth and good explanation, Subbed
Thank you!
Great video, I learned a ton...but something I may have misunderstood. I shoot my videos in my workshop which has LED tubes on the ceiling and I bring in my own LED lights for additional lighting. I'm in the US and bulbs themselves say 50/60hz which I assume means in the US they are 60hz, in Europe they're 50hz. I just started shooting 4k where I'm now noticing some rolling banding. I used 23.976fps and 1/50 and got the banding. If I understand this correctly if I shoot 30fps, it really doesn't matter what the shutter is but I won't get banding. OR if I shoot 23.976fps I should be using 1/40 shutter speed, not 1/50. With all that being said, it seems the sweet spot for me would be 30fps (actually 29.976) and 1/60th shutter? Is that correct? Now i'm off to figure out how to remove the banding in post from the last tutorial I shot
You got it. You could stay at 23.976 and go to 1/60 and that should work, or as you said do both and go 29.97 and 1/60.
@@photojoseph What's interesting is I'm still getting very subtle banding when shooting 29.97 and 1/60 (USA). I can't see it much when watching at normal speed but if I speed up a clip, which I do often, you can definitely see the rolling banding.
@@dellsdiy hmm, so your lights must be causing it. Or; what camera? Hard to imagine but I wonder if the shutter speed is slightly off.
@@photojoseph Sony a6400, 1/60, 29.976, 4k...maybe because of the 8 bit camera? not sure
@@dellsdiy not familiar enough with that camera but one would think it’s accurate. (BTW the framerate is 29.97 or 23.976, but not 29.976). What are the lights?
Brilliant video (came here from Twitter or X or whatever it's called this week) ;)
Awesome thanks! You must follow Marc then 😄
Very good information, thank you!
I was curious what camera and lens you shot this with. Thanks for putting it in the description. Looks great and super informative and clearly explained content as well
My pleasure! I knew people would be curious. It’s a nice look for sure.
Awesome explanation! What kind of LEDs would you (or anyone reading this) to use in a small room to record a hobby? I put up 2 shop light leds and I get nothing but banding with my GoPro hero 11 in time lapse mode. I can fix it in normal recording (fps 30 shutter speed 120) but I would like to avoid banding all together
You need real camera lighting, not shop lighting. Aputure and Nanlite are my favorites.
Good to know. Thanks!
So glad there's a solution, since I'm about to purchase some LED spotlights for RUclips videos. Thank you so much for this video, I was about to scrap my whole lighting design! I wanted to ask a question though - when dimming 220V AC LED GU10 bulbs, do you expect the math behind the cycles to change? Would it still fluctuate at 50 Hz? I'm trying to work around any possible issues by getting the best dimmer and bulbs I can afford, but dimming them was part of my plan, as 10W spots are quite focused and bright.
If you’re using conventional dimmers then all bets are off. I believe conventional dimmers work by altering the cycle. Professional lights dim differently. If you’re talking about building a set using off the shelf lights, I’d advise that you put that money into video lighting systems. There are thousands of affordable options these days. Just look on Amazon.
Very comprehensive! #goodstuff
I'd appreciate any advice on this dilemma: I'm shooting with stage lights soon and NONE of the standard shutter speeds neutralise the banding. Thank god my FX30 has a variable shutter setting - only when I use shutter speed 1/53 - yes, *53*, does the banding disappear. My Sony A6400 does NOT have this option, I'm stuck with standard shutter speeds, NONE of them eliminate the banding. Is there ANY way to get a more precise shutter speed on the A6400? I'm in Australia - unbelievable, shooting at 1/50 resulted in banding. I've checked via NTSC as well as PAL but I'm aware that frame rate is not the problem, it's shutter speed (and my NTSC / PAL tests proved this, the banding was exactly the same in each case - but my A6400 has no way of setting a shutter speed of 53). Thanks...
Without syncroscan (that ability to adjust shutter angle/speed precisely), you’re out of luck. Most likely the reason you’re shorting at that weird 1/53 is they’re using dimmers on the lights. I’d be concerned that this will change on show day. My advice is to buy or rent another FX30.
@@photojoseph Yep! I was going to add to my post "please don't tell me the obvious thing which is to buy another FX30"... I can't magic up the money - or the associated rig - in time... but y'know, I've revisited my test video and I think if I set the a6400 up as a medium-wide shot (static), banding is going to be hopefully very minimal. It's only a real problem when I am close up on anything on that stage. I'm also going to re-test all of this with the support band first, so I have maybe some wiggle room for problem solving. Thanks though - appreciate the response!
@BendeHoedt right on. There are techniques in post for reducing flicker as well. I’d watch those first and maybe run some tests with your test footage. Good luck!
hey man! thank you for this wonderful video. I just knew about your channel, now I'm subscribed because of this amazing explanation. I've been giving my studio setup (with a computer monitor as side light) a trial and error to avoid flickers... yeah, my monitor flickers now... adjusted to 30fps = 1/60th shutter speed (minimal flicker) but it's natural. Now, I will just have to compensate a little more with LED lights to upgrade my small room into a mini studio (like yours, except with the RGB background - can't afford RGB LEDs for now haha) CHEERS! Looking forward to more videos from you. I'll try to make my own video about my experience for my future studio setup. thanks to you man!
Right on, that’s awesome to hear. Definitely come back here and post a comment with a link to your video when you get that up!
Thanks for this video Joseph. It was helpful. I'm designing an old style telecine box to convert 8mm movies to digital through a first surface mirror and back projection. My big worry (and what would stop me getting out the saw) is that I'll either get flicker or slow moving bands caused by beat frequency oscillation that I won't be able to remove just by choosing the correct settings. If the projector isn't perfectly constant at 16fps then the two systems will drift out of sync. Any suggestions as to a strategy? Should I go for a high multiple of 16 or long shutter speed? I know this was almost impossible to tackle in analogue videos cameras.
[Before anyone comments: Yes I know I should ideally scan them frame at a time but I don't want to 1) Buy a Wolverine Scanner as I don't like the results for the money. 2) Pay someone else as it would cost more than a Wolverine for the first batch and I'm planning on making more. 3) The results only have to be good-enough. 4) I like tinkering and have the components to hand - maybe one day I'll build a frame by frame scanner but not yet].
Wow that’s quite a project. And LOL at your “before anyone comments” as that’s exactly what I was going to say! 😂 The big problem I see is “what if the film frame changes during that video frame’s exposure”, which could come down to just luck; keep shooting until you’re lucky enough to start them together. The second problem is frame rate - 16 isn’t in any digital cameras. However if you shoot at 48fps (possible in cameras like the S1H and GH6, I believe - the more cine oriented cameras) then at least that’s an even divisor of 16, so you won’t have drift (48/16=3). So, yeah… 48fps and fingers crossed!
@@photojoseph Thanks for advice. The problem has solved itself. The bulb on my projector blew and there was a good deal on a cheap frame by frame scanner in Amazon Warehouse. It will arrive today. I'll see if I can tweak the results to my liking in post. I've been dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century!
I absolutely learned so much, thank you. Besides all of the above I would never deem my LED lights, lol. All this flickering could of been avoid it.
Nice to hear, thank you!
🤯 brain exploded
Literally 😭🤣
Thank you Joseph! So I have 2 lamps, 1 LED lights, so my question is without the lamps, I should stick with 60fps? I tried 20-25-30-40-50 but no luck
That impossible to answer without knowing more. Use whichever framerate and shutter speed combo eliminates flicker.
right im in the uk so my nikon d850 in slow motion 4× should be 50 or 100 shutter speed under street lights , il have a play tonight 😊 cheers buddy (slow mo minimum is 25 fps ) il put that to my.left side of my brain for now , concentrate on shutter speed 😕
Yes except for some reason I was still getting rolling bars at my last venue even with 60hz power, 30fps and 1/30. First time in a very long time it's been a issue. Something more must have been going on with the lights they were using or dimmer switch.
Dimmers mess up everything!
Thank you so much. Now, I can use my very old D5100 DSLR to shoot video here in the US at 24 FPS without getting the flickering.
Awesome!!
So using my iPhone at 240 FPS I get flicker. If I change to an LED that screws into my socket on the ceiling the flicker goes away? The flicker is annoying when I am trying to review my golf swing. Do you have any specific LED recommendations. Nice video.
Good morning from the UK. Thank you for this video. I have a question please. To your knowledge, how to Hollywood movies avoid these flickers as they clearly use artificial light in many instances. For example, the John Wick movies 'on set' or the movie 'Nobody' where there's slow motion action on the bus. These all use artificial light. I have two cameras, Sony A74 and A7s3 and sometimes come up against challenges with artificial light sources. Thanks and hopefully you can answer. Lee
I explain that in this video - lots and lots of light. Also DC instead of AC. Also, don’t disregard VFX. Also, it’s Hollywood, so there’s probably some secret sauce involved!
Outstanding video
😊 thank you
I shot at 30 & 60 fps guitar/singing. Flicker occurred on my accent flood lights. New apartment, and no issue when recording from webcam.
AWESOME THANKS!!!
You’re welcome!
Very good video. Do you have a solution for removing flicker in post?
I don’t. There are some options and Peter McKinnon did a tutorial a couple years ago but it all depends on the scene and rate of flicker. Sorry, there’s no perfect solution that I’m aware of
Very helpful. But there at least 1 but. In most cases you have to use higher SS, then normally. So you need higher ISO. Not much but in some cases ~0.66 EV.
Well sure, if you change exposure you have to compensate somewhere. A little noise is 1,000x better than flicker though!
I just experienced this after shooting a video in a boxing gym where I used the available light. I shot this scene in 120 fps with 180°, was it because of the AC light in the gym that caused this banding flickering, I almost cried when I got home and review my footage lol
You’re in a 60Hz or 50Hz region? 120p in 60Hz should be fine at any shutter angle. 50Hz though, forget it. Use the calculator. www.red.com/tools
Nobody ever experienced flicker with old school hot lights like Mole Richardson or Lowel. Fluorescents, on the other hand, were a totally different story. Why do purpose built lighting for filmmaking cost so much? Because they contain custom built high frequency ballasts. This was the principle behind Kinoflo (along with custom phosphor formulations), and this is standard for all LED lighting for filmmakers. This is also why DIY solutions built from off the shelf components sourced at home centers are a waste of time for filmmaking, and why sources made for the construction industry, no thought of camera sensor scanning frequency interactions, are also no good.
Very educational and very well explained - cheers. Appreciate thorough explanations so I don't t have to search around and piece together lots of different answers from different people. Can I about your on-screen annotations - at say 5:53, what tools did you use for this?
The hand drawing numbers are screen captured writing on the Procreate app on iPad. The graphics are all done in Keynote.
how do i fix this tho i recently got a light to improve my webcam footage but its making very bad blue lines racing up my screen
Can’t fix that with a webcam. You need a different light. Sounds like a junk light, sorry.
I get the 50/60hz fix but what about 400hz? At 24/25 frames what should my shutter speed be? Its aircraft cabin lighting that flickers when I filmed recently
Aircraft lighting flickers at 400Hz?! That’s wild. Trial and error with a camera that can do syncroscan is probably necessary. Also I doubt that the frequency is consistent. I’d imagine that the Hz changes as the engines rev up or down. Watch this video too if you haven’t already: ruclips.net/video/1qcOAOK8_eY/видео.htmlsi=vz4X4gk18BoHl1-F
This will be helpful when making future videos, but is there any software or technique that can fix video that we've already shot? I can't go back (geography) and the video would be amazing if I can get rid of the strobe effect.
There have been some discussions in the comments here. There’s no silver bullet. This is not a “fix it in post” situation.
Great video. I am still learning shutter speeds etc. I am terrible at math. Is there any way to remove the flicker in post? Thanks.
Not reliably
Thank you for this. I have a shoot in one day and I want to record in 24fps. I’m from Europe so 50hz. I also will need to shoot in high-framerates such as 120fps. The red website is saying there is no safe shutter angle for 120fps in 50hz. Should I instead take 96fps with 345 shutter angle? Is 96 good looking / reliable in 50hz region with 345 shutter angle?
I would appreciate the answer!
?
If you don’t have a flicker then it’s good looking. “Good” is arbitrary. Go as high fps as you can without flicker. The math doesn’t lie; follow the red chart.
@@photojoseph won’t 96 fps with a shutter angle of 345.6 look way too blurry? I just noticed that my 6k pro doesn’t offer 96 fps for the highest sensor resolution. It only goes up to 50 or 48. Would you rather choose 48 fps and highest sensor quality or lower quality with cropped sensor and higher fps?
Thank you for the quick answer!
Nice video! I own a Panasonic s1. Do you know if synchro scan is supported? Is shutter angle available in this camera?
It is not. Shutter angle is only on GH5, GH5S and S1H. You can get close by adjusting shutter speed, but synchro scan gives you the ultimate precision.
@@photojoseph thanks for the fast answer. I hope they include it in a future update.
thanks. now i know the math for next time. today's riddle: how to fix footage from before i knew the math. 75fps under 50hz lighting at 150th. Any genius solutions greatly appreciated.
thank you..
Very well made but i am extremely sleep deprived and i didn't quite catch whether you covered this one issue: Basically, i get really bad flicker when i reduce the Exposure. Is there an easy way to solve this? With normal exposure the lighting is too overwhelming and blinding, but with perfect exposure i get terrible flickering.
You gotta rewatch the video. It’s all about adjusting shutter speed/angle which adjusts exposure
Subscribed
Thanks 🙏🏻
You should explain also why you can't use the G9 in LED lights too! It's would be great to know this before photographer buy this equipment (you inserted the link to the G9 in the description).
LED lighting (good LED lighting) shouldn’t flicker, and again, this video is not about a camera. There are also GH5 and other cameras in the description - they’re under EVERY video I make.
@@photojoseph OK I See...was my fault to buy a G9 and I will inform the hole world to use only flicker free Lights 🤣
Jog S if you’re shooting in your home region then it should not be a problem. Tell me what you’re trying to do and what’s happening and I’ll try to help, but leave the sarcasm out of it.
@@photojoseph I try to explain that you have not always a choice when you are outside and can't change the lightning conditions and I explained the problem first sarcasm free. G9 has no possibility to change anything in 180fps or 150fps mode. Evtl. it is a NTSC Model and here is PAL (50Hz) but I am not sure and can't change it. At the end I avoid to film higher frame rates under lightning conditions because I had film some slomotions and can't use it. Thx for responses...
OK… when you’re in lighting you can’t control, then yes if you are in a PAL region with an NTSC camera, then you are screwed. Of course if you live in Europe and you bought an NTSC version, I can’t help you there. You should have bought the European version of the camera (which I’ve learned is actually multi region, how nice for the Europeans!). The G9 only does high frame rate in full auto, yes. Those specs are not hidden. It’s one of the differentiators between the G9 and GH5/GH5S. And to your point about LED lighting; again as I said in this video, good LED lighting doesn’t flicker. Cheap LEDs may flicker when dimmed.
On the gh5s recorded external on atomos ninja v+ 4k60 prores raw set at 180 angle flickers in my home under ac lighting. Set to 216 does not flicker. What does that do to my video breaking the 180 rule as a set rate for ac lighting? Thanks
You’re in North America?
@@photojoseph yessir
What kind of lighting is your overhead? Fluorescent? CFL? LED?
Believe led . Phillips Hue can bulbs . You can change color and temp. InterestingThanks for askin
@@DroseMr ahhhh philips hue. That explains it. European made and flicker on US electrical system. Notorious for this. So annoying. 173d shutter will also remove it and is closer to 180d.
I went to amusement park at evening. EU, 50hz and 60hz lights mixed everywhere. I couldnt film any video that wouldnt be flickering. What you would have done in that situation? Would it be possible with some settings to avoid it? Anyone know? Thanks.
hm, unlikely there were 50 and 60 hz lighting mixed. Flickering AC lights are determined by the power frequency, which would be 50hz in the EU. I would have rolled through shutter angles looking for one that worked, and if there were particular lights that for whatever reason continued to flicker, just do my best to shoot around them!
Hey there :) great video, thanks for sharing.
i am just curious what program or plug in you used for your writing animations, and your shape animations?
In addition, i found this video after having my own issues. i've always followed the 180 degree rule and shoot @ 24 fps. i live in Canada so i have the 60 hz frequency. i was getting banding in my videos under florescent at 1/50 second shutter speed, but it is solved if i go to 1/60. 5:25, you mention i should be able to shoot 24fps without getting flicker, is banding different in this case?
Thanks :)
What I would like to know is: Filming in PAL or NTSC and then playing on a 50 or 60 hertz TV there is no problem, is it the same? And PAL having better quality than NTSC, is it preferable to shoot whenever possible with it?
Totally different issue. Playing PAL on an NTSC TV means frames have to be added, and playing NTSC on a PAL TV means frames have to be dropped. Since the math doesn’t work (25 doesn’t divide evenly into 29.97 or vice-vera), you have to drop frames through a process called pull-down. This has nothing to do with flicker. Also, in HD, PAL is not better than NTSC. You’re thinking of SD when PAL was a larger frame than NTSC. But in HD and 4K, the frame sizes are the same, so quality is the same. You could argue that at any given bit rate, PAL is better because since there are fewer frames per second, you can have a higher quality frame, but if that’s the case then shoot 24fps, and get even better.
So could if I shoot 120fps with a 1/240 shutter speed, there will be no flicker?
One question ... I wanna shoot 24p but im in india so its 50hz lights .... I only have 1/45 or 1/60 shutter speed in my sony cam (its closer to 1/48 so cinematic motion blur and stuff) wat should i use ?
1/45 or 1/60 ... Remember that im in ntsc format .
www.red.com/flicker-free-video
Bro use this
I guess 1/60 will be fine
Does this mean that lights are off half of the time? If the light is off as many times as it is on in any given amount of time, then that means that the light would be off half of the time correct?
Hey Joseph! Thank you for this great explenation. These graphs really helped me to understand this flicker thing.
Me and my friend are shooting on analog film. Our camera - Bolex H16 non reflex - has fixed 24 fps setting but we live in Europe (50 hz). Which is problematic - we get flicker. It's non reflex camera, means shutter angle is fixed too.
In order to set our camera to shoot 25fps , we bought techometer to measure FPS. The tachometer shows 24.5fps or sometimes 25.5.
Question is: how much flicker (if any) we could get if this happens?
It would be awesome if you could help on this topic.
And I got this RBG bulbs that flicker no matter what :D. But their flicker is visible as moving bands across the frame. I can easily remove this in post using deflicker in Resolve, but it's still annoying.
I doubt that it’s impossible for find a shutter angle that doesn’t flicker. Are they Hue, by chance? Try 172.8°
@@photojoseph using 1/50 now while shooting 25fps (seems 172.8 is really close to 1/50). I can set this SA on my bmpcc but annoying one is Sony A6600, which does not have SA or deflicker option (variable shutter like A7IV). Not sure I can do much on A6600.
@@photojoseph Seems with 25p it will be 1/52.08 so probalby 1/52 would be fine. But no way to set this on A6600 :(
@@JoATTech ahhh there’s the problem. You need a camera with synchro scan and shutter angle 😉
@@photojoseph I know. But I was just really surprised that recording 25p with 1/50 SS in 50Hz location gives some flicker. But I guess these bulbs got some internal electronics that creates flicker with different frequency than 50Hz (or it's multiciplity). And actually this can be removed easily with deflicher SFX in Davinci, not a big deal, although this SFX is resource hungry so for longer videos it will be quite annoying.
Guess I have to start using my BMPCC6k to record tiktoks ;).
It was so many numbers but I can say I got flicker this weekend. I was on a horse competition and shooted 120fps with shuttercount at 1/250 and it was not so fun so I dropped the shutter to 1/125, it got a bit better but not so much. I had 50hz to..My goall with the film to be able to make it slowmo without losing to much quality...How had you done in my situation? I am new to premium pro too so I don't know how to edit it either...:(
Were you in a 60Hz or 50Hz region? You said you “had 50Hz” but I don’t know if that means you were in 50Hz or you set the camera to it.