My story and conclusion with these kind of wings : I started paragliding in may 2018. Practising groundhandling and little soaring flights with a friends wing, a "Nova prion 2" M 90 - 110 kg @ around 80 kilos. It dragged me around alot =D After 3 Month I switched to a cheap 2011 "Team 5 Green B" (level b glider) 55 - 75 kg @ 78 kilo and it was hard at the beginning even while overloading the wing. I recently switched to a cheap 2014 Tripple Seven Queen S (Level d glider) to keep the learning curve high. I did a lot of strong wind handling and soaring. Around 400 - 500 Hours GH since May. I spended little money on older, but barely flighable wings, After Half a year (and a lot of training) you can give me ANY wing and i will have no problems handling (starting,...) it. The newer wings are pure luxury! So when i buy a new lightweight model in spring 2019 it will almost never touch the ground :) Conclusion: It is TOTALLY worth it (and fun) ! ;) p.s. yes, i am addicted...
Very interesting and extreme story. I think GH is just like flying (a paraglider or any other aircraft). It's all about currency, the more you do it the better you will be.
I would suggest that the porosity of wings be checked as an ongoing exercise. First check after 2 years and 100 hours, then follow on from air time in the report for next advised testing - trimming can also restore a tired glider to a more decent shape. Once the porosity fails, throw the damn thing out - you are wasting your time and the glider is a threat to life and limb. I am amazed. how the technology of wings has improved over just a few generations of wings. I tried out an older wing for dune soaring that was in good condition. I gave up after 20min as I felt I was fighting the darn thing rather than flying it - yet about 8 years back it was the latest glider we all wanted!
I have tried different wings for handling: macpara eden, nova ibex and mentor 3, dudek plus and hadron, team5 blue, gin bolero 6, swing powerplay. They were all used but the smaller glider the easier the whole learning process will be. My weight is 55kg and I go with 18 square ibex.
You did it! (sorry Gemma, but it looks like you were learning things on it anyway ;-) Lovely bit of beach you've found for training. Getting something like the seed or groundhog makes more sense really, because it doubles the conditions you can groundhandle in, and helps you get started without being overpowered. It also develops reflex speed. Take the Cs and Ds on that wing and give them a really good stretch (hook risers on a pole) they have probably shrunk a lot, then you can remove the speedbar knots.
Seems like the wing I started on at flight school. I nicknamed it the Buick, cause it was like driving a old 1970s heavy beast of a machine and handled like one too...
centre cell takes most pressure and goes porous first.this can make the wing fold in half and go parachutal.early warning sign is wrinkles in the centre cell while in flight
When I started groundhandling, my first wing was a Gradient en A red made in 1999, I still have it, actually Iam flying in Advance epsilon 5 en B low...well I'm not announcing brands,just talking about how I started. So congrats for your job guys...success for you and God bless you!!! Sorry fot the mistakes in spelling...Im learning english..."Brazilian".
I found a UP glider from 2007, full kit with harness and everything for less than $700, Im thinking about checking it out for a beach wing because I hate getting my new glider in the sand. I don’t know if it would be safe or not, but it would only be for soaring at the dune
Wow - makes you appreciate how far things have come. Recognizing that wing is out of trim, it still makes you realize what a death trap these things used to be for beginners!
I used an old Nova Argon wing to teach myself to ground handle, and glad I did. The wing that I had purchased for the job, virtually new, was a Swing Arcus 5 but, after my first two attempts at launching it on Bodmin Moor it became clear that this wasn't going to be easy; and the Arcus 5 had every chance of being destroyed by gorse and other agricultural litter so, I got the Argon cheep and stuck with it until I thought I was good enough for the Swing. Yes, handling the newer wings after the Argon is a lot easier, not sure about the Niviuk Roller 20 though, that blighter is a bit too eager to get into the air but, I've survived so far. {:-))
What I think: buy a used wing for your own paraglider. And make everything with it! Take it 2-3 days to the sand dune. It won't die badly like the most people think... GH + Cross Country + SIV = all with the only wing you want to be better and safe with. I never spent more than 1.700 EUR for a wing in top condition.
5min14 and I need to say that your old wing has nothing on my old wing. You should try my "trekking "ritmo"" from the 90s . Apparently it was one of the easy wings to fly back in the day. Yet I've only managed about 30 seconds of sustained gh on it. This is the one for you to try and then compare it to how the epic handles. It's 2 different world's. Like one will virtually fly like it has auto pilot and the ritmo may as well be a broken shopping bag on a string.
@@AndreBandarra1 you can have it if you feature it in a video. ;) it's really bad. Think the material was losing it's coating last I looked too. A real example of how a glider can and will age and deteriorate.
The idea that you were ground handling is somehow silly to me. When you hook yourself to a wing and you fill it full of air. You are flying. One guy decided to kite up hill to save such a hard walk. He was groundhandling until the wing plucked him up in the air and slapped him on the ground and broke his back.
8:50 If you are just starting, it's better to go with an old wing which is much more difficult to handle. If you learn to handle a hard wing, you will also handle the new one and even better. Also, it is bad to learn with new wing right away since there will be pretty much of abuse of the wing first weeks.
Sames like me at my first grownhandling i use a verry old wings and it's so heavy and with thats Wing i can't do forward but my teacher told me you have to do forward because soon u'll do thats for paramotor, and for me do forward with a verry old wing it's Soo hard
I think you might want to upload again at about 7mins (bit less) it starts again. Interesting though Gemma becoming a star I bet she enters a comp or two next year. Why don't you have a go at trimming the old wing be easy for you to make some kit.
Yeah I'd found the not knowing if it was me or the old wing made it difficult to learn. I remember how much even smooth air helped at the very beginning, it kinda made it easy to find a baseline, so i knew if I did do x, then the wing did y. (When it was turbulent I might do x, and the wing might do y, or z, or even a or b) Later on, as i got a feel for it it became ok)
interessante, treinar com uma vela velha (geralmente fora de trimagem) ajuda a desenvolver a habilidade e a força... mas pode ser bem frustante pois velas nesses estado nos obrigam a desenvolver nossa sensibilidade... nicely done... she did better than i imagine... women in general have a amazing ground control... compared to andre she make it so easy.... wow...
Sure. But is there a significant difference in technology between say 2014 and 2018? On EN-A wings. I'm looking at a Swing Discus 2014. Got 2 check- used, good condition. That's is why I was asking.
That's a hard question to answer objectively, but in my opinion I don't think so. I started flying in 2014 with a good condition but old ozone mojo (2004) and it was fine to learn stuff on. Flew it for almost 2 years.
@@SkywalkerPaul A lot depends on how the wing has been stored. I have flown a Vertex from twenty years ago. The dealers will tell you that you need a new one.
Nothing like an apples to oranges comparison. The wings aren't the same size, you've tied off the speed bar and have a known brake line asymmetry, as well as a trim problem? I'm all for tossing older technology in favor of newer stuff, but this is just not a fair side by side comparison. What she says at 6:20 - 6:39 is the only valid take away. You own me a beer.
The idea that you were ground handling is somehow silly to me. When you hook yourself to a wing and you fill it full of air. You are flying. One guy decided to kite up hill to save such a hard walk. He was groundhandling until the wing plucked him up in the air and slapped him on the ground and broke his back.
The idea that you were ground handling is somehow silly to me. When you hook yourself to a wing and you fill it full of air. You are flying. One guy decided to kite up hill to save such a hard walk. He was groundhandling until the wing plucked him up in the air and slapped him on the ground and broke his back.
My story and conclusion with these kind of wings :
I started paragliding in may 2018.
Practising groundhandling and little soaring flights with a friends wing, a "Nova prion 2" M 90 - 110 kg @ around 80 kilos. It dragged me around alot =D After 3 Month I switched to a cheap 2011 "Team 5 Green B" (level b glider) 55 - 75 kg @ 78 kilo and it was hard at the beginning even while overloading the wing. I recently switched to a cheap 2014 Tripple Seven Queen S (Level d glider) to keep the learning curve high. I did a lot of strong wind handling and soaring. Around 400 - 500 Hours GH since May.
I spended little money on older, but barely flighable wings, After Half a year (and a lot of training) you can give me ANY wing and i will have no problems handling (starting,...) it. The newer wings are pure luxury! So when i buy a new lightweight model in spring 2019 it will almost never touch the ground :)
Conclusion: It is TOTALLY worth it (and fun) ! ;)
p.s. yes, i am addicted...
Very interesting and extreme story. I think GH is just like flying (a paraglider or any other aircraft). It's all about currency, the more you do it the better you will be.
Glad to see that this was a reference to old wings...not humans!
I would suggest that the porosity of wings be checked as an ongoing exercise. First check after 2 years and 100 hours, then follow on from air time in the report for next advised testing - trimming can also restore a tired glider to a more decent shape. Once the porosity fails, throw the damn thing out - you are wasting your time and the glider is a threat to life and limb. I am amazed. how the technology of wings has improved over just a few generations of wings. I tried out an older wing for dune soaring that was in good condition. I gave up after 20min as I felt I was fighting the darn thing rather than flying it - yet about 8 years back it was the latest glider we all wanted!
I have tried different wings for handling: macpara eden, nova ibex and mentor 3, dudek plus and hadron, team5 blue, gin bolero 6, swing powerplay. They were all used but the smaller glider the easier the whole learning process will be. My weight is 55kg and I go with 18 square ibex.
You did it! (sorry Gemma, but it looks like you were learning things on it anyway ;-) Lovely bit of beach you've found for training. Getting something like the seed or groundhog makes more sense really, because it doubles the conditions you can groundhandle in, and helps you get started without being overpowered. It also develops reflex speed. Take the Cs and Ds on that wing and give them a really good stretch (hook risers on a pole) they have probably shrunk a lot, then you can remove the speedbar knots.
Cheers Greg, didn't think of doing that!
Gemma is definitely improving! Well done
Seems like the wing I started on at flight school. I nicknamed it the Buick, cause it was like driving a old 1970s heavy beast of a machine and handled like one too...
Good advice, was wondering which way to go. I definitely don't want to struggle more than I need to.
centre cell takes most pressure and goes porous first.this can make the wing fold in half and go parachutal.early warning sign is wrinkles in the centre cell while in flight
Great video, helped me a lot in my decision wether to do groundhandling with an old wing or with my normal wing. Thanks!
When I started groundhandling, my first wing was a Gradient en A red made in 1999, I still have it, actually Iam flying in Advance epsilon 5 en B low...well I'm not announcing brands,just talking about how I started. So congrats for your job guys...success for you and God bless you!!!
Sorry fot the mistakes in spelling...Im learning english..."Brazilian".
Crikey....I feel Gemma's pain. I kite an old Windtech TEMPUS...but mine is flyable and no issues with the lines/brakes.
The EPIC is a sweet wing :)
I found a UP glider from 2007, full kit with harness and everything for less than $700, Im thinking about checking it out for a beach wing because I hate getting my new glider in the sand. I don’t know if it would be safe or not, but it would only be for soaring at the dune
Have a nice weekend as well!!! Good job Gemma, you're improving & fast :D
Wow - makes you appreciate how far things have come. Recognizing that wing is out of trim, it still makes you realize what a death trap these things used to be for beginners!
I used an old Nova Argon wing to teach myself to ground handle, and glad I did. The wing that I had purchased for the job, virtually new, was a Swing Arcus 5 but, after my first two attempts at launching it on Bodmin Moor it became clear that this wasn't going to be easy; and the Arcus 5 had every chance of being destroyed by gorse and other agricultural litter so, I got the Argon cheep and stuck with it until I thought I was good enough for the Swing. Yes, handling the newer wings after the Argon is a lot easier, not sure about the Niviuk Roller 20 though, that blighter is a bit too eager to get into the air but, I've survived so far. {:-))
Im flying a 2006 gradient bright 3 as my first glider. Porosity is around 110 sec.
New wing on its way
What I think:
buy a used wing for your own paraglider. And make everything with it! Take it 2-3 days to the sand dune. It won't die badly like the most people think...
GH + Cross Country + SIV = all with the only wing you want to be better and safe with. I never spent more than 1.700 EUR for a wing in top condition.
i fully agree with the final considerations
5min14 and I need to say that your old wing has nothing on my old wing.
You should try my "trekking "ritmo"" from the 90s .
Apparently it was one of the easy wings to fly back in the day. Yet I've only managed about 30 seconds of sustained gh on it.
This is the one for you to try and then compare it to how the epic handles. It's 2 different world's. Like one will virtually fly like it has auto pilot and the ritmo may as well be a broken shopping bag on a string.
You sold it so well that I really want a ritmo now :D Honestly.
@@AndreBandarra1 you can have it if you feature it in a video. ;) it's really bad. Think the material was losing it's coating last I looked too. A real example of how a glider can and will age and deteriorate.
The idea that you were ground handling is somehow silly to me. When you hook yourself to a wing and you fill it full of air. You are flying. One guy decided to kite up hill to save such a hard walk. He was groundhandling until the wing plucked him up in the air and slapped him on the ground and broke his back.
My firs wing was a reaaaaaaaally old one... I learnt a lot on it... Thermaling all the way up lol
8:50 If you are just starting, it's better to go with an old wing which is much more difficult to handle. If you learn to handle a hard wing, you will also handle the new one and even better. Also, it is bad to learn with new wing right away since there will be pretty much of abuse of the wing first weeks.
Sames like me at my first grownhandling i use a verry old wings and it's so heavy and with thats Wing i can't do forward but my teacher told me you have to do forward because soon u'll do thats for paramotor, and for me do forward with a verry old wing it's Soo hard
The worse a Wing is in groundhandling the better you get
The old one wing is Axis Pluto? thanks for answer!
That old guy was a Sky Brontes. It was very cheap and very old!
HEY WERE IS THIS?
I think you might want to upload again at about 7mins (bit less) it starts again. Interesting though Gemma becoming a star I bet she enters a comp or two next year. Why don't you have a go at trimming the old wing be easy for you to make some kit.
Its a good idea Chris, might give it a go when I have a workshop again :)
Does gamma have a channel?
Yeah I'd found the not knowing if it was me or the old wing made it difficult to learn. I remember how much even smooth air helped at the very beginning, it kinda made it easy to find a baseline, so i knew if I did do x, then the wing did y. (When it was turbulent I might do x, and the wing might do y, or z, or even a or b)
Later on, as i got a feel for it it became ok)
yeah, exactly the same for me
Is it worth buying a BGD Seed for groundhandling?
In my opinion, yes
Dank pods fire.
who doesnt know what a reliant robin is?
also i really want to turn a robin into a paramotor trike
I went from an Alpha 3 to a Buzz Z4, the ground handling was a big, very big surprise!!! It was so much easier...
interessante, treinar com uma vela velha (geralmente fora de trimagem) ajuda a desenvolver a habilidade e a força... mas pode ser bem frustante pois velas nesses estado nos obrigam a desenvolver nossa sensibilidade...
nicely done... she did better than i imagine... women in general have a amazing ground control... compared to andre she make it so easy.... wow...
i love you guys and you're great couple
This happens with my old wing, it’s fall one side
Foz do Arelho in Portugal? I've been there also. I like your videos, keep posting! Cheers
Thanks! And yup, you got the place right! It's a bit more crowded now that summer is here...
It also appears that the old wing had a tendency to collapse much easier as opposed to the newer wing.
I WANT TO LERN THIES
How old can/should a used wing be? Is 2014 too old?
Paul von Düsseldorf depends what you're doing with it. Only fly a wing with a good current test certificate.
Sure. But is there a significant difference in technology between say 2014 and 2018? On EN-A wings. I'm looking at a Swing Discus 2014. Got 2 check- used, good condition. That's is why I was asking.
That's a hard question to answer objectively, but in my opinion I don't think so. I started flying in 2014 with a good condition but old ozone mojo (2004) and it was fine to learn stuff on. Flew it for almost 2 years.
Ok. Thanks! I'll buy the Discus .
@@SkywalkerPaul A lot depends on how the wing has been stored. I have flown a Vertex from twenty years ago. The dealers will tell you that you need a new one.
👍👍👍
Nothing like an apples to oranges comparison. The wings aren't the same size, you've tied off the speed bar and have a known brake line asymmetry, as well as a trim problem? I'm all for tossing older technology in favor of newer stuff, but this is just not a fair side by side comparison. What she says at 6:20 - 6:39 is the only valid take away. You own me a beer.
YankeeinSC1 why was the speedbar tied, the brakes asymmetric and the lines out of trim?
Her prettiness needs heart shaped sunglasses!
Ur buteafull and nic
E
The idea that you were ground handling is somehow silly to me. When you hook yourself to a wing and you fill it full of air. You are flying. One guy decided to kite up hill to save such a hard walk. He was groundhandling until the wing plucked him up in the air and slapped him on the ground and broke his back.
The idea that you were ground handling is somehow silly to me. When you hook yourself to a wing and you fill it full of air. You are flying. One guy decided to kite up hill to save such a hard walk. He was groundhandling until the wing plucked him up in the air and slapped him on the ground and broke his back.