35018 British India Line fails at Dalton 21.10.2023
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- Опубликовано: 22 окт 2023
- Saturdays 'Cumbrian Coast Express' Hauled by Rebuilt Merchant Navy '35018 'British India Line' was running well when it passed me at Dunnerholme and so we then jumped in the car and headed over the hill to Lindal in Furness to get it again. With time in n hand we waited, and waited as the light started to fail until we got word it had failed just west of Dalton Tunnel
Getting there we learned it had slipped to a halt with leaves on the line. Bulleid Pacifics were always noted for slipping anyway but the railhead conditions had defeated it. To make matters worse, Dalton Junction signalbox is closed on Saturdays hence the train being pathed through Barrow so the option of setting back onto the loop line could not happen and any eastbound passenger services were stuck behind it
Two Class 47s were dispatched from Carnforth as 'Thunderbirds' but again, as the box is shut, could not crossover at Dalton Junction to get on the rear of 1Z87 but instead had to go to Barrow to reverse. Finally arriving at the stricken train in the dark they then propelled the train up the bank to Lindal summit. By this stage the train was 136 minutes late
It arrived back at Britsol Temple Meads at 00.52 am 102 minutes late
We had commented earlier about the fact that it did not have a diesel on the rear, Oh Dear!
"We had commented earlier about the fact that it did not have a diesel on the rear," So did many of us boarding for the return journey at Carlisle...thanks for the excellent footage - certainly fills in a few gaps for me..
Steam managed perfectly well before diesel's were available to hang on the back end. But back then of course the line side was kept tidy and largely free of trees so the modern phenomenon of leaf fall induced wheel slip was not a problem. Also, slipping to a stand is not a failure. That's a mechanical or electrical fault that cripples the loco.
Apostrophes are hanging from your diesel’s back end.
Only fail was lack of track clearance
British India line did not fail here. The fault falls at the feet of Network Rail for inadequate leaf fall mitigation measures be that provision of an RHHT or in terms of lineside vegetation management. Additionally, running the CME without diesel support at this time of year does seem to be somewhat shortsighted. British India line is a magnificent and reliable loco and not at fault as the title of the video implies.
Is lack of grip strictly a 'failure'? Not down to the loco anyway, just lack of RHTT.
BIL looked good at Dunnerholme - I know the spot but never filmed there. So thats where she failed. I can see its a perfect spot for wheelslip and leaves. There won't have been the RHTT for around 12+ hours either. Great vid Kev
Thanks Les. Good to see you at the Furness show . The folly of not putting a loco on the back, Eh?
It was spam-can type (unrebuilt) Bulleid Pacifics that were renown for slipping en-route. This was because of spillage from the oil-baths for the chain-driven valve-gear. Yes, the rebuilds were known for slipping on start-up, but that was mostly down to driver impatience, rather than a fault with the loco. After all, they were rated at 8P in their day. When Swaythling station near Southampton had a wooden platform and no yellow lines, seeing a loco at speed with 12+ up, filled from end to end with people and baggage on holiday trains to the South Coast, was always a thrilling experience. Compared to the GW Castles they were whispering giants.
Great video there, Anyone got video of her actually coming to a stand ?
Thanks Edmund. I'll ask around the local spotters but it is not a place we photograph at a lot. Dalton station and the former site of Lindal station are the best places to film steam on this part of the line. It might have already started struggling at Furness Abbey so I'll see if anyone was there
Two and half hours delay on return trip, but still a good day.
With Black Combe in the background.
Perhaps a less experienced crew? There is a brilliant video of Tangmere struggling on at Hangman's Lane Crossing on 11/11 eleven years ago. Yes you can!
A few days earlier British India Line, without a diesel on the back, slipped to a halt on Whilpshire bank but skillful driving meant that she was able to get moving again and make the summit.
I believe that there is a greaser at this point on Dalton meaning that however good the driver was he was always going to lose the struggle to restart.
Did they forget to take the wind up key with them
TRAINS/LOCOS SLIPPING/SLIDING & SOME OF MY OPERATING EXPERIENCES !!!
Bulleid locos after rebuilding were NO more likely to slip than any other type. So the idea they were notorious slippers is a typical train spotter fallacy !!! But leaves on the line is a whole different kettle of fish. Which will affect modern trains (with disc brakes) far more readily than older types (including steam) which have classic "Brake Blocks" & not forgetting all locos have sanding gear for just such problems !!! So I'm doubtful the steam loco has been stopped by leaves, as it doesn't even appear autumnal !!!.
Leaves on the line becomes a small problem when starting or stopping as skidding & slipping can occur. But again sanding gear on all locos can usually deal with that. The real problems with "leaves" has only begun since they started building locos/power cars with "Disc brakes". Because Disc Brakes do NOT act on the wheel tread like Brake Blocks do. So when you apply the brakes on brake block fitted stock, these grab the wheel, (incidentally both sides of the wheel on Bulleid locos!) & cause the wheel temperature to sky rocket to hundreds of degrees in a matter of seconds. Which meant the leaves & rail head were also rapidly heated, burning the leaves & evaporating the water & simultaneously cleaning the wheel tread. Which after a few seconds reduces any problem to virtually zero.
With modern "Disc braked" Trains/Locos, the disc brakes are not dissimilar to road vehicle disc pads. So are fitted either on the inside of the wheel (like cars) or on discs mounted on the the actual axles themselves. Which means there is NO cleaning & very little heating of the wheel tread. Hence these types of train are prone to any problems with leaves sticking to the rail surface. So when Disc braked vehicles began appearing BR had to implement methods to go and deal with the problems of lines affected by leaf fall. This required various types of specially modified or newly built trains to, usually at night, traverse known affected routes. And apply a type of sandy or gritty paste to the rail head. The "sandy" element to give "grip" and the paste element to ensure the "sand" didn't blow away, & also ensure track circuit operation. So the paste part had to be conductive, so the (normally 50v) track circuits would continue to function normally. Or signals would fail to operate correctly !!! In other words in this case modern technology (disc brakes) FAILS considerably and effectively allowed a small issue to become a BIG ONE, costing Millions each year in "Sandite" trains !!!
EXAMPLES.
Multiple units being generally lighter than locos are more prone to the leaf problem. So two examples one with brake blocks & the second with disc brakes, when I was a BR Top Link Driver on the Southern & Western Regions follow:
The first involved a Southern Region 4VEP (Class 423), a 3rd rail electric, four car semi-fast type with 90mph gear ratio, with 1,000 hp in the central 42 ton Motor coach with all four axles powered by 4 x 250hp motors. The Electro-Pneumatic Air Brake fitted to these and many other Southern types (of that era), is probably the Worlds most effective & versatile train brake when working with Brake Blocks. As you can select ANY air pressure to apply instantaneously to ALL wheels in the train. You can put it on & take it off, add a bit, reduce a bit, as many times as you like, without any fear of running out of brake force during braking.
The service in question was a Guildford to Waterloo semi-fast service calling all stations to Surbiton & then fast to Waterloo. Approaching Worpledon the first station after leaving Guildford you are on a 90mph line going downhill on a gradient of around 1 in 150, and the approach area is prone to leaf fall in Autumn. So I was actually approaching Worplesdon slightly less than normal at around 70mph, and brought the train to a stand one coach past the 4 car stop mark. There had been a slight bit of sliding for a couple of seconds, when I first applied the brake quite strongly, to knock the train speed down. So I reached the 12 car platform end at about 40mph, and from there in stopped as normal as if it was a dry sunny summer day.
The second run a week or so later, on a similar service to Waterloo, involved a Class 455 4-car sliding door type suburban unit. With 75mph gear ratio & again 1,000 hp divided between the four axles on the central motor coach. These units had the notorious Three Step Brake (electrically applied simultaneously on all axles, but with only 3 set choices of brake pressure 18/36 or 50psi possible) & using disc brakes. So approaching Worplesdon and knowing there were leaf fall problems. I approached at 55mph, and applied the brake a good half a mile before the station, in step one. Immediately the whole 4-car train picked up its wheels. This instigated the notorious "Blow Down valves". A protection system to try & prevent wheels sliding and wearing wheel flats on them,.by TAKING OFF the brake on any axles detected as slipping. So the whole four car train merrily reached the station still doing 40mph and slid through the whole 12-car platform and out the other end before finally coming to a halt a few hundred yards further on. Before I had even stopped, I was on the radio phone to the signalman at Woking, who gleefully told me I was the third 455 to experience this problem that morning, and not to worry, just continue to Woking !!!! As a result these 455 units (and certain other types with this type of brake including Class 158/159 DMMU's) were disliked by virtually all drivers who had to drive them at ANY time of year.
FOR THE RECORD: I have worked for numerous Railways around the World since 1977. In various departments from signalling to Engineering & even Railway Corporate Economics. And from the driving point of view I have driven Steam/Diesel & Electric traction. Indeed I can even claim to have been the First person to drive one of the then new Brush built Bo-Bo-Bo (Yes that's Tri-Bo) Electric locos, during the implementation of the then New Zealand Government Railways, North Island Main trunk line electrification back in 1987.
Bulleid pacifics are famous for slipping.