I would say they didn't care, they were going to kill him anyway. They know Batman didn't create them, but they know Batman stop them each time they can.
One of my favorite things about the animated Batman series is how well they acknowledge that the villains loathe Batman. They hate him so much that they all seek to absolutely break or embarass him rather than just outright kill him.
@@judgem0rt1s23 And the human elements of Bruce. This is a man who is capable of vigilante violence, dry snark and deep compassion. The voice acting is also stellar. There’s a scene I vividly remember where Bruce takes a call while in his Batman getup, and his light, breezy voice coming out of the Caped Crusader was so dissonant it was kind of disturbing.
No shit if I was a villain who’s trying to take over a city with an iron fist and had a super hero like Batman trying to take me down I wouldn’t hesitate to destroy him especially if my criminal empire is making lots of money 💵 , but them again there would be no Batman show and all his adventures would also end too LOL
LegalEagle: _"But that's kind of a strawman"_ *Objection!* The only "strawman" is Scarecrow and he's actually just a man wearing straw and is not, in fact, made of straw.
"There's no bailiff here" Objection: There is in fact a bailiff, that being the Ventriloquist and Scarface. Only problem is that they just aren't very good at being bailiffs.
Yeah, some mental 'health' institutions, especially ones as grim and dehumanising as Arkham, have some pretty horrifying electroshock devices for 'patient control'. See: the Judge Rotenberg Centre. Or don't, if you're a normal person who gets distressed by horrifying child abuse.
Exactly. Looking into Post-Crisis (or in this case, Batman TAS) Arkham was set up as a classical mental institution, and hasn't been updated, because of corruption within the city being so deep, that even if Two-Face has been disbarred, villains still do employ him as an attorney, and the villains throw money, not just at him, but at the bar association set in Gotham.
My favorite joke is when Mad Hatter asks Joker for what he said to be taken off the record, Joker just replies "Record? Is someone supposed to be writing this down?" Always makes me laugh.
Objection: The "Electric Chair" actually would make sense if this was a mental institution in the mold of an "Insane Asylum'" which Arkham Asylum is. It was a common practice for Insane Asylums to use electroshock therapy to try to treat patients. It was one of the main reasons why Insane Asylums were considered unethical and largely abolished in favor of "Mental Institutions". Given that the villains have taken control of the Asylum, it seems reasonable that they would have been able to refurbish such a device to be lethal. (Edit: Yes they still do electroshock Therapy. No, it's not the same as it used to be. I know someone who was essentially lobotomized by the process.)
The modern approach to mental health is more fine grained. Asylums housed people with mental defects regardless of cause, like syphilitics, Schizophrenics and feebleminded.
You should only trust an attorney as far as you can throw a book of law. Please seek the council of an attorney on the legalities of throwing books of law.
Objection: An asylum being portrayed as prison-like has historical precedent! Historically, asylums had very little difference from prisons and in fact, many prisons were converted into asylums. Batman as a franchise is very prone to blurring chronographic lines, and as such, portraying an asylum as prison-like is certainly thematically appropriate.
Very true, specifically the blurry chronology. TAS had a 1940's aesthetic but all of the technology was concurrent with our own, I could never figure out _when_ this series was supposed to take place as a kid.
It also was always an asylum for the CRIMINALLY insane, ie. patients that were often dangerous and needed measures to protect the staff- the founder built it after one of his patients escaped from where he was held and killed someone.
biohazard724 it kinda reminds me of The Incredibles. How their technology would sometimes be futuristic compared to ours, but the art/media is display like the 1940s
little me knew he recognized that voice and had no idea it was my favorite actor on one of my favorite sitcoms (my grandmother had me addicted to tv early rofl)
Yeah, made it weird when a Deathstroke comic of all thiings claims the more realistic, less supervillainy patients were in a seperate wing from the the supervillains but still in Arkham. Like Arkham isn't realistic, so trying to make it realistic, at least to me, will ring false unless its an au or something.
Originally Arkham was in the comics but rather it was Blackgate prison. Arkham came later but still had to keep up with the 'lock them in prison' idea.
"Did they shoehorn that into a children's cartoon?" The answer that that is almost always YES. There are lots of under the radar adult jokes and references in kids entertainment, especially the older stuff.
@@fusionwing4208 You haven't watched a lot of modern animation, have you? Mature subjects have gotten more common, not less. You don't hear about them as often since there's nothing shocking or surprising about them, any more.
Nobody can tell me those old original cartoonists and animators from the original Scooby-doo series in the 60s and 70s, didn't have some freaky agenda with how often they depicted Daphne being abducted and left somewhere tied up by the bad guy
@PaddyOFurniture Not just Scooby-Doo. Many old cartoons, even up to the 80s and 90s had 'damsel' scenes. The old Superman cartoons with Lois Lane, TMNT with April O'Neil, Inspector Gadget with Penny, etc.
About your point at the end and Batmans crimes: This is actually an interesting point throughout the comics and series. Everyone knows what Batman does is illegal. However Batman is so helpful by keeping order in Gotham that he is considered "lower priority" - Meaning if someone actually manages to catch the bat randomly, he will be brought to trial for his crimes (if you can also keep him). But as long as there is still more dangerous criminals on the loose, there will be no special force who will specialise on capturing the Bat. As Batman said in the end, he works for a Gotham that doesn't need him.
I may be misremembering things, but didn't the 60s show have Gordon pretty much say that Batman and by proxy Robin were basically deputies to the Gotham police force?
@@CMWaters Yeah, Batman and Robin were actually deputized in the 60s show, and some of the older comics from the 40s-60s. Then they made him a vigilante again
Batman wasn't low priority in all of these series. I don't know if it was this one or another one I watched, but there was an episode where he was top priority for the DA and police force. The Joker had been let out of Arkham for a big TV interview on some famous talk show. He was escorted there, by a doctor who believed he was a good man who turned bad because of Batman. During the interview, the host offered him a special mug of coffee or water or something. The Joker picked it up and smashed it onn the desk. Then he proceeded to slash the doctor's throat with the shard he still had in his hand. Then he killed the host and called on his minions to lock the doors and gas the entire audience. The show was running live and everyone watching witnissed this incredibly brutal murder take place. Meanwhile, Batman, who had heard that the Joker was out and doing this show, was outside desperately trying to make it to the studio in time to save everyone, but was thwarted by the cops who were out in massive force to try and capture him. The whole episode was so depressing to me. I couldn't believe the DA was so backward=thinking that she would think that Batman was worse than the guy who would murder an entire roomful of people while laughing hysterically!
the very Gotham police commit so many crimes even before batman, because the mafia bought/threatened them, Batman end up allowing the good cops to do their job without being threatened by the criminals
when the electric chair scene started you asked why did arkham have one. the best idea would be that it was used for electro therapy. and with many characters in the batman universe having a great variety of powers spread throughout them, for safety of staff they would strap them into it
Objection: When saying "I have no reason to believe why the other prisoners should be in an asylum" the first footage you show is of the Ventriloquist, but the Ventriloquist is by far the _most_ likely to be rehabilitated out of all of Batman's rogues. The Scarface criminal part of his personality is completely separate from his normal personality to the point that they can even keep secrets and lie to each other. The Ventriloquist was coerced under the threat of death, if you could get rid of or weaken the Scarface persona then the Ventriloquist would happily live within the confines of the law. This is even shown in a later episode when he _does_ reform himself as a children's entertainer until some of his old goons force Scarface back into the picture.
There was also an episode of "The New Batman Adventures" (the sequel series to B:TAS) where his reformation actually stuck after he destroyed Mr. Scarface himself.
Irrelevant. The plea of Insanity isn't based on the likelihood of you being redeemed by mental health care, or even of you actually having any particular symptom. It is based on an evaluation of your ability to understand and choose your course of action. As far as it goes, the persona Scarface may be its own thing, but is still capable of both comprehending his actions, understanding they're wrong and deciding to act or not. Then it is guilty, mental problem or not. Some Batman villains are indeed Insane by the law. Poison Ivy is actually a better example. Her empathy system is messed up, making her feel kinship with plants where a normal brain would feel with humans, she have a hard time understanding why she can't value plants more than people, and she is prone to fits of rage and other ill thought actions where it is arguable if she really have the ability to chose not to act. Most people actually found to be insane are far from the popular picture of insanity, being frequently cold, rational and open about their crimes. Yet they give no plausible reason. Poison Ivy and Two-Face are Insane. Harley, Joker, Ventriloquist and Mad Hatter are not.
However, the Joker would absolutely be impartial, just because no one would believe him anyway, no matter what he says or does. Everyone, including the viewers, would demand a fair trial, and he would insist that the trial was fair, but nobody would believe him.
The only problem I have is in painting Batman as purely a vigilante when in most continuities that is only true for his early years. Once Gordon becomes commissioner, Batman ends up being basically given license to do what he does so long as he doesn't intentionally kill or use excessive force. He's effectively a deputized vigilante.
@@StillJustDreaming you are correct. It's also why he had a designated parking spot right in front of the police headquarters and I believe in the pilot episode one Commissioner Gordon is considering calling him in he has a vote done with his senior Chiefs and they all agree later he doesn't with just him and chief O'Malley
6:30 Did they put a "I hate to see you go but I love to watch you leave" joke in there? Yes. Yes they did exactly that. Animation companies sometimes do throw a proverbial bone to any potential adults in the audience watching the show with their kids (WB was especially notorious for cheeky bits like this in that era). Also, season 2 episode 7 of the Harley Quinn animated series starts off with a fun little courtroom scene that I think you'd get a kick out of.
Of all the jokes I ever heard on Batman the Animated Series, the one I’m most surprised they got away with: Harley (dressed as Sydney Debris’s lawyer in “The Man Who Killed Batman”) to Bullock: “I believe I served you a subpoena once. It was a small subpoena.” at least the joke in “Trial” was subtle, that one isn’t even close to subtle.
not to mention they alos did add riskier things in there when they wanted to do certain things so the risker things would get cut and the original stayed
The judges wording sending Ivy back to Arkham makes it sound like she broke out previously (which is common for Batman's Rogues Gallery), so she's being returned to continue her previous sentance.
But if the Arkham staff hadn't declared her fit to release then even if she did stand trial she still would have been declared unfit, so no matter who brought her in it's back to Arkham for her.
@@wendyheatherwood True. But procedurally, I don't think that would prevent her from standing trial for new crimes, so she should be brought before a judge for that, as happens here. It's just that this judge confusingly goes "LEO didn't bring you in, so there's no case." Which wouldn't that ruling then be grounds to try to get her previous case that got her sent to Arkham in the first place appealed and overturned?
Mad Hatter was obsessed with a girl who didn’t want him. Waylon Jones was born as Killer Croc. Scarecrow enjoys instilling fear into people. Riddler had his game creation taken from his boss. “Big Bad Harv” was always inside of Harvey Dent which turned him into Two-Face. Harley Quinn was a doctor who fell in love with the Joker in his sessions like a Florence Nightingale effect. The Ventriloquist has a split personality just like Two-Face. Poison Ivy loves plants more than people and she will attempt to kill people to save plants and trees. Joker started out as a goon and falling in the vat of chemicals just brought out something that was always there. So the question is how did Batman make them? The answer is he didn’t because they were always made that way long before Batman came into the picture.
Yup, and that's the point of the episode. Batman doesn't create villains, as if his mere presence invites challenge. Rather, the rampant crime and villainy in Gotham's underworld prompted a borderline autoimmune response: the Batman.
@@A-TALKING-TOASTER Gotham had villains. It had plenty of crime families there. The "masquarade" that happened after Batman is just a "new* generation of villains that is entirely for the plot of Batman mythos.
And given that Batman is a grown man who dresses as a bat to cope with trauma I would also say, this is a jury of his peers. His defense is a bit dodgy, tho. Which fits the court which is very dodgy. Doesn't matter. Batman got given a happy end.
@@bjorn-falkoandreas9472 exactly, in a sense they were a very literal jury of his peers, all mentally questionable criminals with theatrical gimmicks, costumes, and nicknames.
I just love how Batman sits there tied up, not attempting to free himself at all, not saying anything just quietly watching as these guys go on with their little justice charade
decades were different, I grew up on the TAS era of superheroes and i turned out ok. Yet as an 8 year old my mom let me watch certain cartoon episodes (cow and chicken no smoking). She was quite liberal eventhough she knew nothing of what was on tv, especially CN and the other channels
To me it comes accross like a watered down comic book for kids. But I mean that in a good way. This is better than most cartoons today and I don't think a raw show would be as digestable as this cartoon is. I feel like kids would learn something and not be board
Plenty of TV and films of old are officially marketed differently to the anticipated market. Even in the 90s kids were watching stuff not officially approved for their age, yet toys were still marketed towards kids for the same films and such. 😅
Objection: Gotham is canonically in new jersey (not NY or IL). During the time of Batman: The animated series, NJ had the death penalty. Also, historically, every execution after 1909 in NJ was done by the electric chair. Therefore, it is very likely that if Batman were to be executed in Gotham, it would have been by electric chair.
In Comics there is (or was until recently) death penalty in Gotham, a villian named Galvan was a murderer who survives the chair and actually gains electric powers, then he hunts down the witnesses to his execution while Batman, Robin and another vigilante try to stop him.
I was going to bring (most) of this up. While there are elements of Gotham that may lead you to believe it represents NYC or Chicago it is in fact neither. It is the hellscape that is New Jersey. NYC and Chicago, among others, still exist in the DC universe and even have their own resident superheroes.
I would also suggest that in a medieval mental institution which houses super criminals with super powers that electric shock treatment would not be unexpected. It could even be expected that some criminals were probably created at least partially with shock treatment, causing their insanity. In fact, several story lines are about Arkham doctors that performed experimental and illegal treatments on inmates, almost always resulting in making patients worse.
the reason Ivy is sent to Arkham is that she was already serving a sentence at Akrham, while yes saying that because they were apprehended by Batman they can't do anything is false, they aren't sentencing her here, they're effectively saying "We can't sentence you to anything however you are indeed supposed to be serving a sentence and we can still return you to that"
Not only that but Ivy is still presumably serving the sentence from her original first crime: The attempted murder of Harvey Dent! First degree attempted murder has an life sentence with the possibility of parole. So that could be the sentence they're referring to.
Objection: The presence of the Bat Signal and the general co-operation of the police renders Batman a state actor. Batman is probably obliged to observe civil rights in detaining the various villains. Failure to do so probably taints the arrests.
For real. He's essentially a government contractor who charges nothing. The real person who should be on trial is Commissioner Gordon for allowing Batman to behave in a way a police officer wouldn't.
@@SomeRUclipsTraveler "A government contractor" implies that the police requested his missions and was able to issue orders to him, which I don't think they did. Without them asking, hell even if they asked him to stop, he would still continue to do what he did, so he was not a contractor. That's not to mention even if he ha had been a contractor, offering to do illegal contracts still make you a criminal, even if the government hired you.
I like how we're talking about the validity of a court case that is being put on almost entirely by madmen, criminals, and murderers. I was absolutely shocked to find they didn't have a fair and accurate trial.
The trial was fair, the jury came out with a verdict of "not guilty", despite the fact that every single one of them were personally injured, on multiple occasions, by the defendant. Granted, they decided to kill him anyway, but they are villains who have been trying to do that for years, so it could be argued that they handed out no punishment via the court, and then went on to do their normal business.
“Did they sneak in some adult jokes into this kid’s show?” Considering it was made in the 90s, 100 percent. And objection: considering the judge is the Joker, he would do something completely random or bizarre like this when he’s captured Batman
@@ChaosKeep Right, the original Looney Tunes weren't made for kids at all. Just check out the WW2 ones... Bugs Bunny straight up killed people on occasion.
Even kid's shows produced much later have some adult material in them. My first piece of evidence: Cure Honey from Happiness Charge Precure. During her transformation, she poses provocatively, for one. She also wears a mini skirt, without any of the show's staples like tulle or bike shorts underneath. Plus, she can access two alternate forms, those being the cheerleader-themed Popcorn Cheer and the samba-themed Coconuts Samba. Her ability to fly doesn't make things any better. And lastly, she can magically produce any length of ribbon, primarily to restrain opponents. Conclusion: Toei Animation knew exactly what they were doing.
As for why the criminals didn’t just kill Batman at first, them being insane is obvious but Two-Face did say he voted to just shoot him but lost the coin toss.
Yeah and this is clearly a Joker move where the spectacle is more important than the outcome - he wants the world to appear broken and nonsensical. He definitely could get enough of them along. The Riddler needs to beat Batman as part of his obsession, Harley would follow him, Killer Croc isn't bright, Harvey has his own pathology, scarecrow and hatter both require their tech and time to set-up to be dangerous, but I don't know how they convinced Ivy, though the Joker could.
@@danielmorton9956 I dont recall the episode but for what its show in this video the episode used Ivy to show how the supervillians feel when they were in trail. So, she probably is in board to the idea of being in the other side of the trial and give back the pain she suffered. And its interesting to see that the trial against Bastman is how the justice system feel for alot of people
@@danielmorton9956 They all just want to kill him (except perhaps Harl) but they want to first humilliate him, to feel the empowering feeling of being the autority for once, is as simple as that.
2:45 I think the key missing information here is that she _escaped_ from the asylum, was caught by Batman while she was attempting to do "something" worthy of life imprisonment, and since she "cannot be prosecuted" she is instead being _returned_ to the asylum (so as not to absolve her of the reason(s) she was sent there in the first place); *_not_* having a new separate sentence sending her there because of the actions she did while being captured by Batman. It is implied in this series that at some point ALL of the villains have been in Arkham Asylum and have escaped *many* times for various reasons.
and the reason Arkham looks more like a prison than a medical facility is because it's full of insane theme criminals who keep escaping, so they've made it more prison-like in a (futile) attempt to keep said loonies inside.
Mr. Dent likes trials. It's completely in character for him to do this. I don't know why the rest of them go along with this. I could see joker wanting to be a judge.
To be fair, suggest this is planned out by the Joker - I can't say it is because I never watched this I'm just familiar with the dynamics of a number of the characters IF the Joker is the one who plans this, his intentions is never to actually fully take down the Bat. The point is to constantly enforce this battle. By forcing him to take stand, it makes him be a part of another battle. In later series and etc., no one except Joker is allowed to take down Batman. No villain, hero, or anyone EXCEPT Joker is allowed to actually defeat Batman.
When exploring realism, remember the setting more: Gotham is a pretty corrupt place with very high crime rates. Things probably won't be getting done as they should be, police are probably overwhelmed and give up / look the other way on a lot of things. I loved this video and look forward to more like this!
Yeah seems like everyone is crooked here except Gordon and the new DA here but even most of those cops probably would’ve taken a bribe and not needed the hatters cards unless it was for plausibility reasons to keep cover of a villain asset
Corrupt, or incompetent. Let's keep in mind that the Gotham City Police Department had a banquet honoring Commissioner Gordon and they ordered a cake from a business literally called "Crazy Clown Catering." Can we really expect police procedure of proper evidence processing when literally all of the GCPD were shocked that the Joker popped out of the cake? Like, really? Sooner or later, everyone should go "clown = Joker, doyyyy."
There's also the problem of plot armor. These villians can't be executed or even put into places they can't break out of, otherwise the writers can't reuse them. Most of these villians wouldn't even qualify for Insanity as a defense. Joker might be an anarchic narcissist and psychopath, but that doesn't make him divorced from reality. Ivy is the ISIS or Klan version of a Planateer and is just an eco terrorist. Croc is just a dude with a few birth defects. Irl these yahoo's would be sentenced to a real prison or even supermax prison. Otherwise people like The Ventrilloquist, Twoface, Zsaz, and maybe MAYBE Harley if you could convince a jury she suffers from Stockholms would be put in an asylum.
@@RequiemPoete Except the Joker in many ways *appears* to be divorced from reality. And you don't understand the term plot armour. The term plot armour refers to when a character is put into dangerous situations and they come out unscathed with no logical, in universe explanation. That's not what's happening here. As for the question of the writers needing to reuse villains, that's more of a comic predicament that an issue for Batman The Animated Series. Comics are serialised so while villains can be offed (such as Kraven the Hunter) they are almost always brought back due to the long running nature of the comic serialisation. Meanwhile Batman The Animated Series is episodic, with each episode telling a self contained story with little sense of continuity between the episodes. You could watch pretty much any episode in any order and it wouldn't make any difference. And it's difficult to ascertain a sense of chronological order diagetically. The reason villains are not executed in Batman The Animated Series is a thematic reason rather than a plot contrivance. Batmans refusal to kill would mean little if there was no insanity clause and a death penalty. Its meant to present a moral challenge to Batman.
@@azcreative5514 I'm going to disagree with you on a couple of points. In BTaS it's clear the writers aren't familiar with how the legal system works. In one episode a judge says that because Batman caught the bad guy, they couldn't charge them with the crime. This is of course, nonsense. Additionally in BtAS, Joker doesn't meet the criteria for an insanity defense. It's clear in the episode where he thought he inherited hundreds of millions of dollars that he was fine giving up crime. So he demonstrates that he is capable of choosing to obey the law. He simply chooses not to. He's not compulsed against his will like Wesker is, he's not hearing voices from the dog to murder the demons that replaced the neighbors like The Son of Sam ( allegedly) did. So he should be sent to Black Gate. Also Batman not killing bad guys has nothing to do with the lack of death penalty in Gotham. Batman sees himself as patching the justice system. Not the system itself. If Gotham executed criminals that doesn't stop Batman from adhering to his code. Afterall he doesn't try to run his own prison like Lock-Up did does he? No. He turns the bad guys to the authorities. He'd do the same even if they faced execution. And we have an example of a no-kill superhero in the DCAU doing that. Metropolis has the death penalty. We see that in an episode of Superman, yet Superman doesn't stop executions, ( except one, where he discovered the guy was framed for the murder ) nor does he kill bad guys likely to get the DP.
Something to bear in mind during the opening scene: the Gotham City justice system is corrupt AF and the judge may or may not be in the pocket of the mafia. They'd probably have no issue sending supervillains to an easily escapable insane asylum if it meant spiting Batman for his attempts at curtailing organized crime.
@Max Powers We do, but they're a bit less well known. In Batman Begins, Judge Faden is content to have dinner with some young women in a bar owned by mob boss Carmine Falcone while Falcone points a gun at Bruce Wayne and threatens to murder him and his loved ones, then has his goons beat the shit out of him before throwing him out. Faden sees all of this, and does nothing. Later, Batman finds "dirt" on Faden and uses it to coerce him into presiding over Falcone's trial. That's a good example of how the legal system, at that time, was so corrupt that it took someone breaking laws in order to fix it. If the Judge is bribed/blackmailed by the mob, he's not likely to be much help. Something similar happens in Batman: Year One, when the biggest problem in Gotham is the corrupt police department who are actively involved in crimes and later kidnap James Gordon's infant daughter in an attempt to blackmail him. Thankfully, Batman finds the crocked cops, beats them up, and returns Gordon's daughter to him.
@@marvelsandals4228 I don't remember Judge Faden showing up again after the "people like you always have something to lose" scene. The pictures Batman gives Rachel are for evidence against Falcone, in order to provide a rock-solid argument in court. (Which is still illegal, because it violates search and seizure without a judge first signing a search warrant, but eh.) If anything, dirt on Faden would've been used to force him to recuse himself so that a non-corrupt judge could preside over Falcone's trial, or as a basis for going after Faden himself. It's a consistent problem with Batman that the judicial system is thoroughly outmatched by supervillainy. Like, imagine if the mob had been faced with the task force in The Wire.
@@Duiker36 I recall Batman asking Gordon what it would take to bring Carmine Falcone down, and Gordon said leverage on Judge Faden and a DA brave enough to prosecute. Then Batman gave Rachel pictures I presume of Judge Faden having an affair or something (maybe he was with a prostitute or an underage girl, but the details aren't important). The implication there is that these pictures served as the leverage on Judge Faden Gordon had mentioned before. I suppose it is possible that Faden simply recused himself so a different Judge (not in cahoots with by Falcone) would preside over his trial, but the point remains: it took an outsider bending the rules to "fix" a broken system.
Love your channel, have to let you know, people do die in batman TAS! The writers weren’t able to come straight out and show or say it, but any time you see someone “paralyzed” with the joker gas, that person was actually killed by it.
as someone who has been in a mental institution and has deeply looked into their history, asylums very much did look and function like high-security prisons up until the early 2000s and were very torturous to their patients
Actually in the US most of these old asylums have been dismantled in the last two decades. However, since the US has always had little to no regard to healthcare and especially mental health care the most common provider of mental healthcare in the US are in fact prisons.
@@tranquilthoughts7233 good to know that they're gone, but it's very unfortunate that the replacement isn't much better. mental healthcare is healthcare - it's in the name - and it needs a lot more resources put into it, at least in the US
@@ouroya Actually the replacement is arguably worse. Because while mental healthcare itself has improved by leaps and bounds, in order for a menatlly ill person to get that healthcare they first need to get arrested and sent to prison. And the prison system in the US is downright medieval. In fact just being in a US prison can be enough to CAUSE mental disorders. And to put the cherry on top, as with everything regarding prisons in the US the mental healthcare department too is usually severly underfunded. To get good mental healthcare in the US you first need to sift through an ocean of what is essentially mental healthcare scam to find the actually medically grounded providers, an endeavour that is dificult even for experts in the field, and then you usually have to pay a shitload of money because the US healthcare system in generel is just one giant shitshow.
It's likely the episode is heavily referencing the classic German film "M", where the criminal underworld hold a full trial, including providing the accused with an attorney. One worth reviewing on this show I think!
Re: Ivy at the beginning - She was likely *already* serving a sentence in Arkham, broke out, committed a murder or attempted murder, was caught by Batman, and because, for some wild reason, they can't convict her of her new crime since Batman caught her, she's being returned to finish her sentence in Arkham.
Yeah this isn't the first time she's been apprehended. Also it's a mental institute designed for people who are very dangerous in their insanity and highly likely to hurt others.
I mean her whole thing is being an ecoterrorist. She's pretty much THE Batman villain most capable of, and most willing to, engage in acts of mass murder.
@@MangoJester yeah, well... the weird thing with Ivy is she usually has killing people as plan B though. she does some really crazy stuff, but she doesn't usually start with murder.
Interestingly, in her first appearance in the series, she winds up incarcerated at Stone Gate Penitentiary, even though she was apprehended by Batman. So what happened to the rules in Gotham between these episodes?
Batman: The animated series was without a doubt one of the best cartoons shows ever, not just great voice actors, but great storylines, character arcs, and dialogue.
Well it's the Joker who given his insanity would likely not notice or care about something so mundane. Also as the Joker he is going to be looking to say something funny even if its only funny to him.
That's a big maybe, @@oneearrabbit. We could see a flamboyant egotist thinking certain common knowledge is beneath him having need of, sure. Joker's a smart foe, though, so you'd expect him to know the basics. How about if we just figure he's joking? :-)
Um, he's certifiably insane? So......there ya go. Can't pay attention to everything! Unless your talking the Heath Ledger/Dark Knight Joker, because how the heck DID he plan all that without something going wrong?!?!?!?!?! lol
I've heard this before but in Batman & Mr. Freeze: Subzero, Barabra Gordon's organ donor profile states she lives in Gotham City, NY. The area code show, 10025, is for NYC.
i will state for the record that the adam west version of batman was a deputized agent of the gotham police department, however later versions dropped that from the batman mythos.
The adam west Batman is its own thing. The backbone of the so called mythos is a comics thing. The show introduces things later adapted into the comics like Barbara Gordon but it is its own thing with it's own relationship dynamics.
TBF, the creators for Batman: TAS is talked about a lot. In fact Bruce Timm was the one who created the Original DC Animated Universe that included Batman, Superman, Static Shock, Batman Beyond, and Justice League.
This was one of my favorite episodes. I loved how the lawyer changed her view on Batman after really getting a view the villains. Even saying “I honestly thought Batman created all of you. But it's clear that of all YOU created HIM”.
@@louisduarte8763 The wording tends to wildly apply in either case. I think this is just a trope that happens all the time in Superhero comics: "Create Your Own Villain/Create Your Own Hero." Either a hero is born and the villains only show up to make him more competent, or the Hero ends up becoming one in order to stop a villain they accidentally caused to exist as a result of disregarding the life of another. Or both. Pick any Spider-man/Hulk/Wolverine/Ghost Rider/Avengers comic and the rest of the argument speaks for itself.
In the original live action TV show, Batman was portrayed as being in cooperation with Gotham City Police. He wasn't as much of a vigilante. He also had vast knowledge of the law and would always do his best to obey it. That version was a much better role model.
Pretty sure the nonsequitor was "We are sending you BACK to Arkham" in the sense that she escaped and didn't finish serving an allotted time there that she was mandated to.
Maybe they're saying that because Batman did the arrest they can't sentence them again, and all they can do is just send them back to arkham to continue a previous sentence that was cut short by their escape. Still not a good real world argument, and it doesn't make sense that they even got to the judge if that's the case. But i think it makes a bit of sense in the weird comic book world of gotham.
It's an asylum for the criminally insane, not a prison. She's not serving a term, she's supposed to stay here until she's cured, or until the next budget cut, whichever comes first.
@@Llurr-e9n But if she was in Arkham before, isn't it presumably because Batman caught her the first time? He seems to be the only guy in the city who can stop criminals in weird costumes.
Hearing him joke about "going from the jury to the witness stand" actually made me think about a moment from a phoenix wright case that is arguably more ridiculous. In it, at one point a jury member turns out to have been an indirect witness and even a contributor to the assault on trial (she was fighting with her husband in her apartment and one of the objects thrown went out a window and hit someone, and ppl thought it was a murder) so she goes from being in the jury, being on the witness stand, being on the witness stand WITH HER HUSBAND, and finally her husband taking her place on the jury because she fainted. It's... its a clusterfuck.
I actually really enjoyed this video. Three things I wanted to point out, though. 1. They said Poison Ivy was being RETURNED to Arkham. She was sent there for treatment after a previous trial, but escaped. The opening court scene was to determine if they would try her for crimes she committed after her escape. They dropped those charges, but she still had to go back to Arkham. 2. You pointed out that the villains were irrational for not just killing Batman. But remember; they are insane. Most of them have obsessions or compulsions they cannot break, like how Joker only wants Batman dead if he personally comes up with the plan and carries out the act, or how Riddler literally cannot stop himself from leaving riddles even when he doesn't want to do so. 3. Arkham is a very old and outdated facility. I believe it may well have been a prison at some point, but at the very least it was built back during a time when "psychiatric treatment" meant locking people in padded rooms and throwing away the key. I seem to remember there are episodes where they address how crappy Arkham is, but I could be wrong.
@tfordham13 I'm pretty sure they are. You are right; "insane" is a legal term, not a medical one. But these are all criminals who a court ruled were insane. So legally, yes; they would be insane.
Ever read Neil Gaiman's "whatever happened to the Caped Crusader"? His afterlife reward for being Batman is getting reincarnated as Batman. That's as much a punishment as it is a reward.
@@christianali5431 OVERRULED! He never jokes when it comes to paying taxes. I refer you to: "I'm crazy enough to take on Batman but the IRA, no thank you."
Is it cannon that Arkham was a really old mental hospital where there where basicly prisons? Also the fact the get the super villain crazy need to be more prison like to keep them from braking out ( like the actual try at all anymore)
It’s supposed to be that way, that’s why the reason some of them are there is lenient. Though I would say the majority of them are actually not mentally stable Joker, two face, riddler, Harley Quinn, Scarecrow, Scarface, Mad hatter, and even Ivy to an extent. And Clay-face, and Croc in some continuities
@@legolad7477 In media outside of BTAS, Croc is considered legally sane and does his time at Blackgate Prison. It’s also worth noting that in the show that’s where the Penguin is sent.
@@darlalathan6143 The Justice League is made up of people that worked with Batman closely, and generally look up to him as one of the founding leaders, so they'd be biased.
Pretty sure this was a 'kangaroo court' setting from the getgo: I mean, we have a jury of villains who already want Batman dead, A clown with the gavel, hell, the only one here who is even qualified to the the job is Two Face, but even I cannot say Harvey's the one doing the job in this instance. But honestly, still a good Batman: TAS episode.
And this is based on a comic where Batman is put on trial by The Joker and the jury is made up of henchmen dressed like The Joker. They called it a Joker Jury.
The electric chair isn't for execution. It used to be common practice to attempt to rehabilitate inmates through "electro-shock therapy", which used a modified electric chair or electrodes stabbed directly into the brain to apply voltage. The intent was that through controlled application of electric shocks, a person could be reprogrammed through negative reinforcement or selective lobotomy.
18:33 THANK YOU for giving it two grades. You've made that key distinction between subjective entertainment value and applying rational standards. Humanity's core problem is the failure to do this all the time.
This brings up a very interesting point. Batman is effectively performing citizen's arrest of criminals. I think everyone has heard of these but almost no one knows how it's done.That subject deserves a video all on it's own. I imagine it's a minefield of potential problems!
that's what I thought. Regardless if Batman is considered as a vigilante. He can still make a citizen arrest which most superheroes do since they are not sworn in or dutupized law enforcement.
He touches on this during his Dark Knight video, but I would love a full video highlighting all of Batman’s potential crimes throughout the history of the character.
It normally works with you seeing a violent felony (or a violent misdemeanor depending on the state) and stopping the criminal if they attempting to run. I think ordinary citizens could compile evidence and bring it to authorities without it getting thrown out. They could not trespass, steal, or initiate violence against someone who they didn't see commit a crime. Legal Batman would follow criminals and give police evidence. (Like a detective.) Or he could just screw the law and do what's right.
Fun fact: This episode's plot would've been later inspired for the unmade 5th Batman movie in the late 90s with Batman locked up in Arkham Asylum with Scarecrow (being his doctor) using his fear gas based on Bruce's nightmares, and show villains from the prior films in a court room dedicated Batman's trials on murdering them and how he's no different from them. As well as seeing Joker as a hallucination.
Batman was originally written in the 1940s (appeared May 1939), so unfair trials with stacked juries and corrupt judges sounds pretty much spot on for some aspects of America’s legal system at the time. Some might argue that criminal prosecution today isn’t really about serving justice either but really about enforcing order on (mostly) the poor.
You should really read the graphic novel that came out a few years ago "Batman: White Knight" ... REALLY good and on-topic for sure! Basically, Batman is apprehended for all the laws he's broken trying to hunt down these criminals. Joker actually "cleans up" a bit and studies law in order to defend himself and then goes on to become Mayor of Gotham! All sort of other things happen and I'd LOVE to hear your take on the graphic novel. Sadly it's not in video form yet (to my knowledge) so that makes it a little more difficult though. Seriously, REALLY good read!
The one thing I didn't like about that series was that The Joker was an alternate personality created after Jack Napier's accident. That's Arnold Wesker and Harvey Dent's thing.
You should do a episode watching “Knives Out”. Their is a good amount of legal terms thrown around, a will reading, and a murder/suicide. I think it would have a good amount of potential for an episode
“It looks a lot like a prison”, I think it would, since this particular wing is for only the extreme cases like the rogue gallery as we know it. The other wings may look like a regular hospital setting where the patients are not as harmful.
Well another thing to keep in mind is, if I recall correctly, Arkham asylum was once a prison, then it became an asylum. It became an asylum a LONG time ago, back when what would be considered actual extreme torture was standard operating procedures for extreme mental health issues. Lobotomies, electroshock therapy, etc. Arkham would have all kinds of horrible torture rooms just sitting there collecting dust.
@@SynthApprentice There are still many levels to criminal insanity. If a man rigs traps to his house due to extreme paranoia and one of them unintentionally triggers from a visiting health worker, killing or otherwise harming them, an insanity plea is the fairly obvious defense. Not exactly someone who needs a maximum security cell, but who is still a danger to themselves and others around them.
That opening scene is kinda weird, considering that the whole reason Arkham even exists in the comics is because most of Batman’s enemies (with exceptions like Ra’s al Ghul and Bane) are dangerously, mentally ill and Poison Ivy is an ecoterrorist with an obsession with plants, so she should go to Arkham automatically anyways, regardless of whether or not Batman caught her. As for the vigilante thing, I remember that before DC rebooted its universe in the mid-80s, it was established that all their heroes had been deputized by their home cities to get around the legal issues of “technically, we can’t punish you since Superman caught you”. I don’t know if they did that after the first reboot or not, but Gotham is so notoriously corrupt, most of its government looks the other way at the fact that Commissioner Gordon works so closely with Batman, because there are so few good cops, they have no choice but to rely on Batman.
9:25 I think the implication is supposed to be that Batman is guilty before the trial. By having a jury of Arkham Inmates to determine his guilt and thereby conclude that Batman is the same as the others, would make those inmates the closest to his peers. It's still improper, but wouldn't surprise me if these writers meant it that way. Batman TAS was on its A-game.
Like when Harley was covered in pie cream and uhm, insinuated to be nekkid and said, "Ya want some of my *pie,* puddin'? I'm sure you'll want seconds!" The entire show was constant sex jokes that went right over all our heads but it's still great. HBOmax has the whole series and all the animated movies too
Paul Dini and Bruce Timm got away with a LOT of innuendo jokes. It's how Harley Quinn was born from this series (seriously...her first appearance was "Joker's Favor" season 1, eps. 7).
The electric rack in Arkham isn't an execution device - it's meant for shock therapy, and is only being repurposed for lethal means by jacking up the voltage. This show uses the 30s/40s for visual inspiration pretty often, so it makes total sense that that device would be at Arkham.
I just realized the DA’s theory about Batman being responsible for creating most of his villains is incorrect considering most Batman villains exist because of stuff outside of Bruce taking up the cowl the only leg she can stand on is Joker and even then the film Joker does prove that someone can become Joker without the need of Batman (depending on whether or not Joker is told truthfully)
It's a general talking point in some legal circles, I think. Batman's behavior could be considered agitating, for folks who don't know everyone's backstory. It's the typical J Jonah Jameson take. "Everything was fine until The Superhero showed up."
The DA does come to the realization that Batman's villains created him first. Joker, most of all because if he hadn't murdered Phantasm's father, she wouldn't have called off her engagement to Bruce which means that he wouldn't have become Batman nor would she become Phantasm.
I mean obviously in a show about Batman, Batman is not going to be the bad guy so like yeah. But I mean this is a fictional show and I feel like this episode is about lampshading the fact that in the real world Batman would obviously not be completely innocent here and his behavior is obviously escalating these conflicts to the point where they become extremely dangerous. Like a lot of the time the villain is literally just doing this to get revenge on Batman.
Not quite. As the lawyer said, some might have gimmicks or not but the villains were still their root for their own problems. The Joker himself at least in this continuity was already a sadistic mobster who killed for profit and fun, so he was not a victim himself.
Maybe she meant that having a heroic figure as a symbol for the crazies creates villains to challenge him. Or just that they live in the DC universe and there is a cosmic law that super heros attract villains, or vice versa. People think super heros are to blame since before they showed up most either didn't exist or stayed in the shadows.
Anyone notice that, during the Mad Hatter's scene, the lawyer's talking about Hatter causing 'intentional acts' and there's a graphic of Hatter swinging an intentional axe at Batman? If he planned this, well done, sir.
For the reason they knew, that even if Batman would win, they would execute him anyway. So there was no problem for them, being "generous" with their not guilty verdict.
Expert Opinion: The reason you see these villains get harsh sentences for not even completing the crime is actually an A.R.G.U.S. precedent. In this continuity Amanda Waller is as ruthless as she is in the comics. She actually has criminals put on long charges so they are more inclined for experimental testing, and at this time, A.R.G.U.S. Experts were starting Suicide Squad planning.
@@r.b.rozier9692 except that's not a chair, that's a table, and it most definitely was, it just wasn't kept upright once the patient was strapped to it
Objection! "The jury must be a representative cross sample in that geographical location" If the geographical location is restricted to Arkham, they are a representative cross sample of the residents.
I thought the same thing especially since he said it about the lawyer first which sounded even worse; I mean I know they worked out their distrust but that would really be a surprise
Objection: The judge is sending Poison Ivy back to Arkham Asylum after she broke out. Furthermore, Arkham has supposedly been around for a very long time and has not been updated since its construction.
⚖️ Did Batman get off light?
👕 Get 20% off your first order from Mack Weldon: legaleagle.link/mackweldon
Please react to “Find Me Guilty” starring Vin Diesel.
React to law abiding citizen please
I think the electric chair is supposed to be for electric shock therapy.
The Trial was as Rigged as the election
@@douglas4934 the trial was a rigged as much as the cosby
The irony that I love is that even though the jury is rigged, they end up making a rational and impartial verdict.
Hit him with a rock!
With people like Riddler, Harley Quinn and Scarecrow in the jury, it's no surprise
@@SullySadface Love how they bring that back for Almost Got'em
I would say they didn't care, they were going to kill him anyway. They know Batman didn't create them, but they know Batman stop them each time they can.
Well, until the Joker put the original plan back on track, anyway.
“Is someone supposed to be writing all this down?”
Two Face, former District Attorney: *nervous sweating*
Only on the half that still has pores.
@@morganrobinson8042 Nice burn.
@@EpyonRules More like a half-burn, but I see what you did there.
Yea, I'm not entirely sure why they didn't have Two Face act as prosecution actually.
@@carsonm7292 not enough time in a 20 minute cartoon.
One of my favorite things about the animated Batman series is how well they acknowledge that the villains loathe Batman. They hate him so much that they all seek to absolutely break or embarass him rather than just outright kill him.
Well, that, but one of the reasons why Batman Animated was so beloved was how human a few of the villains were.
@@judgem0rt1s23 And the human elements of Bruce. This is a man who is capable of vigilante violence, dry snark and deep compassion.
The voice acting is also stellar. There’s a scene I vividly remember where Bruce takes a call while in his Batman getup, and his light, breezy voice coming out of the Caped Crusader was so dissonant it was kind of disturbing.
Exactly, it doesn’t make logical sense, but that’s the point. Gotham’s full of crazies.
No shit if I was a villain who’s trying to take over a city with an iron fist and had a super hero like Batman trying to take me down I wouldn’t hesitate to destroy him especially if my criminal empire is making lots of money 💵 , but them again there would be no Batman show and all his adventures would also end too LOL
Batman Beyond did such an amazing job expanding on it too, shame that we never really got a proper continuation or ending for Beyond
"I would've killed her first!" Really makes clear that beneath the veneer of a children's show, these characters really are monsters.
And batman is by far the worst he stared into tje abyss and didn't blink. He's beyond insane .
Is he stupid? @@flying1dead155
The not blinking quote is about remaining sane
@@asdasasdas3476Okay I think I understand that quote now
Disney and Warner really conditioned Americans that animation has to be aimed at children.
LegalEagle: _"But that's kind of a strawman"_
*Objection!* The only "strawman" is Scarecrow and he's actually just a man wearing straw and is not, in fact, made of straw.
But does the legal definition of a straw man imply that said straw man must be entirely made of straw?
@@webdesignerplays has a point. is a "garbage man" a man made of garbage? is a "cave man" a man made of caves?
Please sustain this by technicality Devin (Legal Eagle)
Quiet, all of you! Artists and writers will hear you and you'll inspire ridiculous comic book villains!
Objection! In the context given, a strawman is a type of argument, not some gimmicky supervillain.
"There's no bailiff here"
Objection: There is in fact a bailiff, that being the Ventriloquist and Scarface. Only problem is that they just aren't very good at being bailiffs.
Also Killer Croc seems to act as one at times here, but I'm fairly certain that's improper as well since he's also in the jury.
What do you call the ventriloquist guy?
@@4olufade He's actually known as The Ventriloquist. His puppet is named Scarface.
@@4olufade Arnold Wesker
Puppets of mob bosses make terrible bailiffs. Who'd have thought?
I think the "electric chair" was actually a patient table for electro shock therapy; so totally appropriate for Arkham Asylum
That's what I was thinking.
Im.sorry, but could you please phrase your statement in the form of an objection?
Yeah, some mental 'health' institutions, especially ones as grim and dehumanising as Arkham, have some pretty horrifying electroshock devices for 'patient control'. See: the Judge Rotenberg Centre. Or don't, if you're a normal person who gets distressed by horrifying child abuse.
Agreed, I always figured they jerry rigged the table into an electric chair.
Exactly. Looking into Post-Crisis (or in this case, Batman TAS) Arkham was set up as a classical mental institution, and hasn't been updated, because of corruption within the city being so deep, that even if Two-Face has been disbarred, villains still do employ him as an attorney, and the villains throw money, not just at him, but at the bar association set in Gotham.
My favorite joke is when Mad Hatter asks Joker for what he said to be taken off the record, Joker just replies "Record? Is someone supposed to be writing this down?" Always makes me laugh.
The fact that he looks at the camera when he says that is icing on the cake
Joke's on him?
@@michaelnoel9998 cameraman: ((off screen thumbs up))
Objection: The "Electric Chair" actually would make sense if this was a mental institution in the mold of an "Insane Asylum'" which Arkham Asylum is. It was a common practice for Insane Asylums to use electroshock therapy to try to treat patients. It was one of the main reasons why Insane Asylums were considered unethical and largely abolished in favor of "Mental Institutions". Given that the villains have taken control of the Asylum, it seems reasonable that they would have been able to refurbish such a device to be lethal.
(Edit: Yes they still do electroshock Therapy. No, it's not the same as it used to be. I know someone who was essentially lobotomized by the process.)
And it's still an option for treatement in certain pathologies resistant to medical treatment.
Actually EST is still used, and is one of the more effective therapies we have for stuff like depression and schizophrenia.
The modern approach to mental health is more fine grained. Asylums housed people with mental defects regardless of cause, like syphilitics, Schizophrenics and feebleminded.
Came to the comments just to make sure this was covered.
Yep, I was going to bring this up. Glad to see someone else did
Lawyer who watches animated series is a lawyer who is trustworthy.
You should only trust an attorney as far as you can throw a book of law.
Please seek the council of an attorney on the legalities of throwing books of law.
Lawyer that watches one of the best animated series of the 90's is a trustworthy lawyer.
@@crickett3536 Hear hear!
Devin giving the Gotham district attorney a run for her money.
Anime is the rule of law.
Objection: An asylum being portrayed as prison-like has historical precedent! Historically, asylums had very little difference from prisons and in fact, many prisons were converted into asylums. Batman as a franchise is very prone to blurring chronographic lines, and as such, portraying an asylum as prison-like is certainly thematically appropriate.
Very true, specifically the blurry chronology. TAS had a 1940's aesthetic but all of the technology was concurrent with our own, I could never figure out _when_ this series was supposed to take place as a kid.
It also was always an asylum for the CRIMINALLY insane, ie. patients that were often dangerous and needed measures to protect the staff- the founder built it after one of his patients escaped from where he was held and killed someone.
biohazard724 it kinda reminds me of The Incredibles. How their technology would sometimes be futuristic compared to ours, but the art/media is display like the 1940s
@@timothycarney9652 That's ironic, given how often the inmates escape Arkham.
It also has modern precedent, as people with severe mental illness today are highly likely to end up in prison instead of under medical supervision.
Fun fact: There was actually a bailiff in the courtroom, in a sense. Richard Moll of Night Court fame was the voice of Harvey Dent/Two-Face.
And by name, Nostradamus "Bull" Shannon
little me knew he recognized that voice and had no idea it was my favorite actor on one of my favorite sitcoms (my grandmother had me addicted to tv early rofl)
"For a mental institute, this looks a lot like a prison."
Sorry, Devin, but I think that was always the idea behind Arkham.
Yeah, made it weird when a Deathstroke comic of all thiings claims the more realistic, less supervillainy patients were in a seperate wing from the the supervillains but still in Arkham.
Like Arkham isn't realistic, so trying to make it realistic, at least to me, will ring false unless its an au or something.
Yeah, I think it's known to be Mental Institute of the criminally insane.
Originally Arkham was in the comics but rather it was Blackgate prison. Arkham came later but still had to keep up with the 'lock them in prison' idea.
@@MishTheMash Blackgate Prison still exists in the comics. It just has not crazy super heroes.
@@zachester Yeah that's about right. Blackgate is where the mobsters went.
"Did they shoehorn that into a children's cartoon?"
The answer that that is almost always YES. There are lots of under the radar adult jokes and references in kids entertainment, especially the older stuff.
Much more common in 90s to early 2000s than now at least. Now it seems like any shoehorning of stuff like that gets instantly attacked and reticuled
" I found Prince!"
" No... fingerprints."
"I don't think so."
@@fusionwing4208 You haven't watched a lot of modern animation, have you? Mature subjects have gotten more common, not less. You don't hear about them as often since there's nothing shocking or surprising about them, any more.
Nobody can tell me those old original cartoonists and animators from the original Scooby-doo series in the 60s and 70s, didn't have some freaky agenda with how often they depicted Daphne being abducted and left somewhere tied up by the bad guy
@PaddyOFurniture Not just Scooby-Doo. Many old cartoons, even up to the 80s and 90s had 'damsel' scenes. The old Superman cartoons with Lois Lane, TMNT with April O'Neil, Inspector Gadget with Penny, etc.
About your point at the end and Batmans crimes:
This is actually an interesting point throughout the comics and series.
Everyone knows what Batman does is illegal.
However Batman is so helpful by keeping order in Gotham that he is considered "lower priority" - Meaning if someone actually manages to catch the bat randomly, he will be brought to trial for his crimes (if you can also keep him).
But as long as there is still more dangerous criminals on the loose, there will be no special force who will specialise on capturing the Bat.
As Batman said in the end, he works for a Gotham that doesn't need him.
I may be misremembering things, but didn't the 60s show have Gordon pretty much say that Batman and by proxy Robin were basically deputies to the Gotham police force?
@@CMWaters Yeah, Batman and Robin were actually deputized in the 60s show, and some of the older comics from the 40s-60s.
Then they made him a vigilante again
Batman wasn't low priority in all of these series. I don't know if it was this one or another one I watched, but there was an episode where he was top priority for the DA and police force. The Joker had been let out of Arkham for a big TV interview on some famous talk show. He was escorted there, by a doctor who believed he was a good man who turned bad because of Batman. During the interview, the host offered him a special mug of coffee or water or something. The Joker picked it up and smashed it onn the desk. Then he proceeded to slash the doctor's throat with the shard he still had in his hand. Then he killed the host and called on his minions to lock the doors and gas the entire audience. The show was running live and everyone watching witnissed this incredibly brutal murder take place.
Meanwhile, Batman, who had heard that the Joker was out and doing this show, was outside desperately trying to make it to the studio in time to save everyone, but was thwarted by the cops who were out in massive force to try and capture him.
The whole episode was so depressing to me. I couldn't believe the DA was so backward=thinking that she would think that Batman was worse than the guy who would murder an entire roomful of people while laughing hysterically!
@@simoneanne01 that is in The Dark Knight Returns Pt 2 I believe.
the very Gotham police commit so many crimes even before batman, because the mafia bought/threatened them, Batman end up allowing the good cops to do their job without being threatened by the criminals
when the electric chair scene started you asked why did arkham have one. the best idea would be that it was used for electro therapy. and with many characters in the batman universe having a great variety of powers spread throughout them, for safety of staff they would strap them into it
Objection:
When saying "I have no reason to believe why the other prisoners should be in an asylum" the first footage you show is of the Ventriloquist, but the Ventriloquist is by far the _most_ likely to be rehabilitated out of all of Batman's rogues. The Scarface criminal part of his personality is completely separate from his normal personality to the point that they can even keep secrets and lie to each other. The Ventriloquist was coerced under the threat of death, if you could get rid of or weaken the Scarface persona then the Ventriloquist would happily live within the confines of the law. This is even shown in a later episode when he _does_ reform himself as a children's entertainer until some of his old goons force Scarface back into the picture.
This was in the new Batman comic too.
I'm referring to the Batman: The Adventures Continue comic, of course. Great read.
Hell, in the other universe, he's perfectly sane after Superman lobotomized the puppet
There was also an episode of "The New Batman Adventures" (the sequel series to B:TAS) where his reformation actually stuck after he destroyed Mr. Scarface himself.
Irrelevant.
The plea of Insanity isn't based on the likelihood of you being redeemed by mental health care, or even of you actually having any particular symptom. It is based on an evaluation of your ability to understand and choose your course of action.
As far as it goes, the persona Scarface may be its own thing, but is still capable of both comprehending his actions, understanding they're wrong and deciding to act or not. Then it is guilty, mental problem or not.
Some Batman villains are indeed Insane by the law. Poison Ivy is actually a better example. Her empathy system is messed up, making her feel kinship with plants where a normal brain would feel with humans, she have a hard time understanding why she can't value plants more than people, and she is prone to fits of rage and other ill thought actions where it is arguable if she really have the ability to chose not to act.
Most people actually found to be insane are far from the popular picture of insanity, being frequently cold, rational and open about their crimes. Yet they give no plausible reason.
Poison Ivy and Two-Face are Insane. Harley, Joker, Ventriloquist and Mad Hatter are not.
If I remember, in this show, the Ventriloquist did get rehabilitated, briefly reverting before being rehabilitated for good.
I would argue that the Arkham inmates having an incredibly biased trial is absolutely realistic, just not legally sound.
However, the Joker would absolutely be impartial, just because no one would believe him anyway, no matter what he says or does.
Everyone, including the viewers, would demand a fair trial, and he would insist that the trial was fair, but nobody would believe him.
Because he would ignore everything that happened during the trial and just do whatever he felt like regardless.
I mean batman became batman because Gotham was some what corrupted so.......
it's like the trial of Chicago 7
Ohhhhhh Snap!
The only problem I have is in painting Batman as purely a vigilante when in most continuities that is only true for his early years. Once Gordon becomes commissioner, Batman ends up being basically given license to do what he does so long as he doesn't intentionally kill or use excessive force. He's effectively a deputized vigilante.
yeah but it's more popular in mainstream media to paint him as a straight up vigilante though, so naturally most people are going to see him that way.
"use excessive force" Well, that didn't age well for Gordon.
I think in the 60's series they specifically say that he's "duly deputized"
@@StillJustDreaming you are correct. It's also why he had a designated parking spot right in front of the police headquarters and I believe in the pilot episode one Commissioner Gordon is considering calling him in he has a vote done with his senior Chiefs and they all agree later he doesn't with just him and chief O'Malley
The issue is they never make it official it's always under the table.
6:30 Did they put a "I hate to see you go but I love to watch you leave" joke in there?
Yes. Yes they did exactly that.
Animation companies sometimes do throw a proverbial bone to any potential adults in the audience watching the show with their kids (WB was especially notorious for cheeky bits like this in that era).
Also, season 2 episode 7 of the Harley Quinn animated series starts off with a fun little courtroom scene that I think you'd get a kick out of.
Also Bruce Timm is a notorious hornball
Of all the jokes I ever heard on Batman the Animated Series, the one I’m most surprised they got away with:
Harley (dressed as Sydney Debris’s lawyer in “The Man Who Killed Batman”) to Bullock: “I believe I served you a subpoena once. It was a small subpoena.” at least the joke in “Trial” was subtle, that one isn’t even close to subtle.
not to mention they alos did add riskier things in there when they wanted to do certain things so the risker things would get cut and the original stayed
The judges wording sending Ivy back to Arkham makes it sound like she broke out previously (which is common for Batman's Rogues Gallery), so she's being returned to continue her previous sentance.
But if the Arkham staff hadn't declared her fit to release then even if she did stand trial she still would have been declared unfit, so no matter who brought her in it's back to Arkham for her.
@@wendyheatherwood True. But procedurally, I don't think that would prevent her from standing trial for new crimes, so she should be brought before a judge for that, as happens here. It's just that this judge confusingly goes "LEO didn't bring you in, so there's no case."
Which wouldn't that ruling then be grounds to try to get her previous case that got her sent to Arkham in the first place appealed and overturned?
In Lock-up's episode didn't the news mentioned she escaped?
Mad Hatter was obsessed with a girl who didn’t want him. Waylon Jones was born as Killer Croc. Scarecrow enjoys instilling fear into people. Riddler had his game creation taken from his boss. “Big Bad Harv” was always inside of Harvey Dent which turned him into Two-Face. Harley Quinn was a doctor who fell in love with the Joker in his sessions like a Florence Nightingale effect. The Ventriloquist has a split personality just like Two-Face. Poison Ivy loves plants more than people and she will attempt to kill people to save plants and trees. Joker started out as a goon and falling in the vat of chemicals just brought out something that was always there. So the question is how did Batman make them? The answer is he didn’t because they were always made that way long before Batman came into the picture.
Yup, and that's the point of the episode. Batman doesn't create villains, as if his mere presence invites challenge. Rather, the rampant crime and villainy in Gotham's underworld prompted a borderline autoimmune response: the Batman.
The real question is how did Gotham not have any villains like that before Bruce became Batman The only thing they had was the court of the owls
Maybe joker but that's a mayber and he is the reason for the metal degrading of the rest
@@A-TALKING-TOASTER oh they did
@@A-TALKING-TOASTER Gotham had villains. It had plenty of crime families there. The "masquarade" that happened after Batman is just a "new* generation of villains that is entirely for the plot of Batman mythos.
Objection: The jury was indeed a representative of the general population of the local area, that being Arkham Asylum.
And given that Batman is a grown man who dresses as a bat to cope with trauma I would also say, this is a jury of his peers. His defense is a bit dodgy, tho. Which fits the court which is very dodgy. Doesn't matter. Batman got given a happy end.
@@bjorn-falkoandreas9472 A "happy ending" you say ...
As for them representing society at large, they have effectuated a self release. an can at this moment be considered at large.
To be honest, the entirety of Gotham is weird to begin with.
@@bjorn-falkoandreas9472 exactly, in a sense they were a very literal jury of his peers, all mentally questionable criminals with theatrical gimmicks, costumes, and nicknames.
I just love how Batman sits there tied up, not attempting to free himself at all, not saying anything just quietly watching as these guys go on with their little justice charade
BTAS Batman is fully aware of the kayfabe he's in and plays along accordingly.
‘Batman: The Animated Series’ is a show for adults that wouldn’t exist if it hadn’t been marketed as a kids’ show.
decades were different, I grew up on the TAS era of superheroes and i turned out ok.
Yet as an 8 year old my mom let me watch certain cartoon episodes (cow and chicken no smoking).
She was quite liberal eventhough she knew nothing of what was on tv, especially CN and the other channels
To me it comes accross like a watered down comic book for kids. But I mean that in a good way. This is better than most cartoons today and I don't think a raw show would be as digestable as this cartoon is. I feel like kids would learn something and not be board
It is a perfectly fine kid show. Kid were once damn good.
Plenty of TV and films of old are officially marketed differently to the anticipated market.
Even in the 90s kids were watching stuff not officially approved for their age, yet toys were still marketed towards kids for the same films and such. 😅
I liked it as a kid cause it didn't talk down to me as a child.
Objection: Gotham is canonically in new jersey (not NY or IL). During the time of Batman: The animated series, NJ had the death penalty. Also, historically, every execution after 1909 in NJ was done by the electric chair. Therefore, it is very likely that if Batman were to be executed in Gotham, it would have been by electric chair.
In Comics there is (or was until recently) death penalty in Gotham, a villian named Galvan was a murderer who survives the chair and actually gains electric powers, then he hunts down the witnesses to his execution while Batman, Robin and another vigilante try to stop him.
I was going to bring (most) of this up. While there are elements of Gotham that may lead you to believe it represents NYC or Chicago it is in fact neither. It is the hellscape that is New Jersey. NYC and Chicago, among others, still exist in the DC universe and even have their own resident superheroes.
Overrruled: This incarnation *is* set in New York, as seen on Charlie Collins’ license in “Joker’s Favor”.
@@BlackCover95 Oh, solid evidence, because _no one_ has ever crossed the George Washington bridge before. >_>
I would also suggest that in a medieval mental institution which houses super criminals with super powers that electric shock treatment would not be unexpected. It could even be expected that some criminals were probably created at least partially with shock treatment, causing their insanity. In fact, several story lines are about Arkham doctors that performed experimental and illegal treatments on inmates, almost always resulting in making patients worse.
The best joker line ever was "I'm crazy enough to fight Batman, but the IRS? noooooo thank you!" Lol
the reason i read about it is that you cant get away from tax fraud claiming insanity, so he would go to Jail instead of Arkham
-Proceeds to shove a comically large bag of money into the tax collector's hands-
@@daikatarokamegawa542 He was out of real money at that point. All he had left was monopoly money that he got tricked with.
It is funny
That is still hilarious to me til this day.
only a real lawyer would criticize the villain's kangaroo court like a proper one. man you need to do these kinds of vids again
the reason Ivy is sent to Arkham is that she was already serving a sentence at Akrham, while yes saying that because they were apprehended by Batman they can't do anything is false, they aren't sentencing her here, they're effectively saying "We can't sentence you to anything however you are indeed supposed to be serving a sentence and we can still return you to that"
Not only that but Ivy is still presumably serving the sentence from her original first crime: The attempted murder of Harvey Dent! First degree attempted murder has an life sentence with the possibility of parole. So that could be the sentence they're referring to.
@@greatprofessorbias414 Ivy's actually sentenced to serve time in Stonegate Penitentiary for attempting to murder Harvey, not Arkham Asylum.
Objection: The presence of the Bat Signal and the general co-operation of the police renders Batman a state actor. Batman is probably obliged to observe civil rights in detaining the various villains. Failure to do so probably taints the arrests.
For real. He's essentially a government contractor who charges nothing. The real person who should be on trial is Commissioner Gordon for allowing Batman to behave in a way a police officer wouldn't.
@@SomeRUclipsTraveler they should make a movie about THAT
@@SomeRUclipsTraveler a contractor who charges nothing.
Love that line.
Yeah he's pretty clearly deputized. In regards to civil rights, he only has to mirandize them if he's going to conduct a custodial interrogation
@@SomeRUclipsTraveler "A government contractor" implies that the police requested his missions and was able to issue orders to him, which I don't think they did. Without them asking, hell even if they asked him to stop, he would still continue to do what he did, so he was not a contractor.
That's not to mention even if he ha had been a contractor, offering to do illegal contracts still make you a criminal, even if the government hired you.
I like how we're talking about the validity of a court case that is being put on almost entirely by madmen, criminals, and murderers. I was absolutely shocked to find they didn't have a fair and accurate trial.
But they did have a fair trial...
The trial was fair, the jury came out with a verdict of "not guilty", despite the fact that every single one of them were personally injured, on multiple occasions, by the defendant.
Granted, they decided to kill him anyway, but they are villains who have been trying to do that for years, so it could be argued that they handed out no punishment via the court, and then went on to do their normal business.
This episode is hilarious. I like how he explains that Joker cant be a judge
And the FACT that the Villains are sore losers.
“Did they sneak in some adult jokes into this kid’s show?” Considering it was made in the 90s, 100 percent.
And objection: considering the judge is the Joker, he would do something completely random or bizarre like this when he’s captured Batman
Oh the history of adult jokes in kid cartoons goes back to the beginning.
@@ChaosKeep yeah, this was more "teen" than "kids" so it makes a lot more sense when you realize the target audience is 13 and older.
@@marhawkman303 I was thinking more the cartoons I watched in the 70's, most of which were from the 30's and 40's when you include the Loony Toons.
@@ChaosKeep Right, the original Looney Tunes weren't made for kids at all. Just check out the WW2 ones... Bugs Bunny straight up killed people on occasion.
Even kid's shows produced much later have some adult material in them.
My first piece of evidence: Cure Honey from Happiness Charge Precure. During her transformation, she poses provocatively, for one. She also wears a mini skirt, without any of the show's staples like tulle or bike shorts underneath. Plus, she can access two alternate forms, those being the cheerleader-themed Popcorn Cheer and the samba-themed Coconuts Samba. Her ability to fly doesn't make things any better. And lastly, she can magically produce any length of ribbon, primarily to restrain opponents.
Conclusion: Toei Animation knew exactly what they were doing.
As for why the criminals didn’t just kill Batman at first, them being insane is obvious but Two-Face did say he voted to just shoot him but lost the coin toss.
Yeah and this is clearly a Joker move where the spectacle is more important than the outcome - he wants the world to appear broken and nonsensical. He definitely could get enough of them along. The Riddler needs to beat Batman as part of his obsession, Harley would follow him, Killer Croc isn't bright, Harvey has his own pathology, scarecrow and hatter both require their tech and time to set-up to be dangerous, but I don't know how they convinced Ivy, though the Joker could.
@@danielmorton9956 I dont recall the episode but for what its show in this video the episode used Ivy to show how the supervillians feel when they were in trail. So, she probably is in board to the idea of being in the other side of the trial and give back the pain she suffered. And its interesting to see that the trial against Bastman is how the justice system feel for alot of people
I feel like this equally argues for and against the criticism: Harvey raises the prudent solution, but defers to the coin’s prerogative 😆
@@danielmorton9956 Also.... you can take the approach of "we'll kill him if he tries to escape".
@@danielmorton9956 They all just want to kill him (except perhaps Harl) but they want to first humilliate him, to feel the empowering feeling of being the autority for once, is as simple as that.
2:45 I think the key missing information here is that she _escaped_ from the asylum, was caught by Batman while she was attempting to do "something" worthy of life imprisonment, and since she "cannot be prosecuted" she is instead being _returned_ to the asylum (so as not to absolve her of the reason(s) she was sent there in the first place); *_not_* having a new separate sentence sending her there because of the actions she did while being captured by Batman. It is implied in this series that at some point ALL of the villains have been in Arkham Asylum and have escaped *many* times for various reasons.
And that most of them have committed multiple murders at some point, Joker especially.
Yeah essentially Arkham is the time out room for Gotham villains, they’ll be out causing mayhem in a month or so.
and the reason Arkham looks more like a prison than a medical facility is because it's full of insane theme criminals who keep escaping, so they've made it more prison-like in a (futile) attempt to keep said loonies inside.
The first introduction of Poison Ivy had her turn people (usually associated with eco crimes) into literal tree statues. Similar to Medusa.
@@thevine2010 I thought that episode happened later and her introduction was when she tried to poison Harvey Dent when she was dating him.
Nothing is more adorable than nostalgic excitement. You watching the batman intro is very relatable.
"Not a great plan from their perspective, but a great conceit for an episode." Batman villains in a nutshell.
My favorite detail about this episode is that one member of the jury (Riddler) disappears as the trial goes on, likely having decided to escape.
@@TheAzulmagia that's hilarious. All of these years and I never noticed that.
Mr. Dent likes trials. It's completely in character for him to do this. I don't know why the rest of them go along with this. I could see joker wanting to be a judge.
@@TheAzulmagia Equally likely to have been forgotten by the animators.
To be fair,
suggest this is planned out by the Joker - I can't say it is because I never watched this I'm just familiar with the dynamics of a number of the characters
IF the Joker is the one who plans this, his intentions is never to actually fully take down the Bat. The point is to constantly enforce this battle. By forcing him to take stand, it makes him be a part of another battle.
In later series and etc., no one except Joker is allowed to take down Batman. No villain, hero, or anyone EXCEPT Joker is allowed to actually defeat Batman.
When exploring realism, remember the setting more: Gotham is a pretty corrupt place with very high crime rates. Things probably won't be getting done as they should be, police are probably overwhelmed and give up / look the other way on a lot of things. I loved this video and look forward to more like this!
Yeah seems like everyone is crooked here except Gordon and the new DA here but even most of those cops probably would’ve taken a bribe and not needed the hatters cards unless it was for plausibility reasons to keep cover of a villain asset
Corrupt, or incompetent. Let's keep in mind that the Gotham City Police Department had a banquet honoring Commissioner Gordon and they ordered a cake from a business literally called "Crazy Clown Catering." Can we really expect police procedure of proper evidence processing when literally all of the GCPD were shocked that the Joker popped out of the cake? Like, really? Sooner or later, everyone should go "clown = Joker, doyyyy."
There's also the problem of plot armor. These villians can't be executed or even put into places they can't break out of, otherwise the writers can't reuse them. Most of these villians wouldn't even qualify for Insanity as a defense. Joker might be an anarchic narcissist and psychopath, but that doesn't make him divorced from reality. Ivy is the ISIS or Klan version of a Planateer and is just an eco terrorist. Croc is just a dude with a few birth defects. Irl these yahoo's would be sentenced to a real prison or even supermax prison. Otherwise people like The Ventrilloquist, Twoface, Zsaz, and maybe MAYBE Harley if you could convince a jury she suffers from Stockholms would be put in an asylum.
@@RequiemPoete Except the Joker in many ways *appears* to be divorced from reality. And you don't understand the term plot armour. The term plot armour refers to when a character is put into dangerous situations and they come out unscathed with no logical, in universe explanation. That's not what's happening here. As for the question of the writers needing to reuse villains, that's more of a comic predicament that an issue for Batman The Animated Series. Comics are serialised so while villains can be offed (such as Kraven the Hunter) they are almost always brought back due to the long running nature of the comic serialisation. Meanwhile Batman The Animated Series is episodic, with each episode telling a self contained story with little sense of continuity between the episodes. You could watch pretty much any episode in any order and it wouldn't make any difference. And it's difficult to ascertain a sense of chronological order diagetically.
The reason villains are not executed in Batman The Animated Series is a thematic reason rather than a plot contrivance. Batmans refusal to kill would mean little if there was no insanity clause and a death penalty. Its meant to present a moral challenge to Batman.
@@azcreative5514 I'm going to disagree with you on a couple of points. In BTaS it's clear the writers aren't familiar with how the legal system works. In one episode a judge says that because Batman caught the bad guy, they couldn't charge them with the crime. This is of course, nonsense. Additionally in BtAS, Joker doesn't meet the criteria for an insanity defense. It's clear in the episode where he thought he inherited hundreds of millions of dollars that he was fine giving up crime. So he demonstrates that he is capable of choosing to obey the law. He simply chooses not to. He's not compulsed against his will like Wesker is, he's not hearing voices from the dog to murder the demons that replaced the neighbors like The Son of Sam ( allegedly) did. So he should be sent to Black Gate.
Also Batman not killing bad guys has nothing to do with the lack of death penalty in Gotham. Batman sees himself as patching the justice system. Not the system itself. If Gotham executed criminals that doesn't stop Batman from adhering to his code. Afterall he doesn't try to run his own prison like Lock-Up did does he? No. He turns the bad guys to the authorities. He'd do the same even if they faced execution. And we have an example of a no-kill superhero in the DCAU doing that. Metropolis has the death penalty. We see that in an episode of Superman, yet Superman doesn't stop executions, ( except one, where he discovered the guy was framed for the murder ) nor does he kill bad guys likely to get the DP.
Something to bear in mind during the opening scene: the Gotham City justice system is corrupt AF and the judge may or may not be in the pocket of the mafia. They'd probably have no issue sending supervillains to an easily escapable insane asylum if it meant spiting Batman for his attempts at curtailing organized crime.
@Max Powers We do, but they're a bit less well known. In Batman Begins, Judge Faden is content to have dinner with some young women in a bar owned by mob boss Carmine Falcone while Falcone points a gun at Bruce Wayne and threatens to murder him and his loved ones, then has his goons beat the shit out of him before throwing him out. Faden sees all of this, and does nothing. Later, Batman finds "dirt" on Faden and uses it to coerce him into presiding over Falcone's trial. That's a good example of how the legal system, at that time, was so corrupt that it took someone breaking laws in order to fix it. If the Judge is bribed/blackmailed by the mob, he's not likely to be much help.
Something similar happens in Batman: Year One, when the biggest problem in Gotham is the corrupt police department who are actively involved in crimes and later kidnap James Gordon's infant daughter in an attempt to blackmail him. Thankfully, Batman finds the crocked cops, beats them up, and returns Gordon's daughter to him.
@@marvelsandals4228 I don't remember Judge Faden showing up again after the "people like you always have something to lose" scene. The pictures Batman gives Rachel are for evidence against Falcone, in order to provide a rock-solid argument in court. (Which is still illegal, because it violates search and seizure without a judge first signing a search warrant, but eh.) If anything, dirt on Faden would've been used to force him to recuse himself so that a non-corrupt judge could preside over Falcone's trial, or as a basis for going after Faden himself.
It's a consistent problem with Batman that the judicial system is thoroughly outmatched by supervillainy. Like, imagine if the mob had been faced with the task force in The Wire.
@@Duiker36 I recall Batman asking Gordon what it would take to bring Carmine Falcone down, and Gordon said leverage on Judge Faden and a DA brave enough to prosecute. Then Batman gave Rachel pictures I presume of Judge Faden having an affair or something (maybe he was with a prostitute or an underage girl, but the details aren't important). The implication there is that these pictures served as the leverage on Judge Faden Gordon had mentioned before. I suppose it is possible that Faden simply recused himself so a different Judge (not in cahoots with by Falcone) would preside over his trial, but the point remains: it took an outsider bending the rules to "fix" a broken system.
That, and likely pull a "Spectacular Spider-Man" Tombstone, and make sure Batman is distracted by Supervillains, so the mooks can get their crime on.
this such a smart take youre so right.
Love your channel, have to let you know, people do die in batman TAS! The writers weren’t able to come straight out and show or say it, but any time you see someone “paralyzed” with the joker gas, that person was actually killed by it.
as someone who has been in a mental institution and has deeply looked into their history, asylums very much did look and function like high-security prisons up until the early 2000s and were very torturous to their patients
I was institutionalized a few times in the ‘90s & early 2000s. Can confirm-These places are horrific.
@@grahamstrouse1165 not entirely anymore, there are good ones out there, but there are still plenty of bad ones. at least some progress is being made.
Actually in the US most of these old asylums have been dismantled in the last two decades. However, since the US has always had little to no regard to healthcare and especially mental health care the most common provider of mental healthcare in the US are in fact prisons.
@@tranquilthoughts7233 good to know that they're gone, but it's very unfortunate that the replacement isn't much better. mental healthcare is healthcare - it's in the name - and it needs a lot more resources put into it, at least in the US
@@ouroya Actually the replacement is arguably worse. Because while mental healthcare itself has improved by leaps and bounds, in order for a menatlly ill person to get that healthcare they first need to get arrested and sent to prison. And the prison system in the US is downright medieval. In fact just being in a US prison can be enough to CAUSE mental disorders. And to put the cherry on top, as with everything regarding prisons in the US the mental healthcare department too is usually severly underfunded.
To get good mental healthcare in the US you first need to sift through an ocean of what is essentially mental healthcare scam to find the actually medically grounded providers, an endeavour that is dificult even for experts in the field, and then you usually have to pay a shitload of money because the US healthcare system in generel is just one giant shitshow.
It's likely the episode is heavily referencing the classic German film "M", where the criminal underworld hold a full trial, including providing the accused with an attorney. One worth reviewing on this show I think!
True
That's sounds like a great idea for a video! Hope he does it!
Now I have a new movie to check out. Thank you! :D
I was about to suggest the movie M
That sounds lawful enough to be right
Re: Ivy at the beginning - She was likely *already* serving a sentence in Arkham, broke out, committed a murder or attempted murder, was caught by Batman, and because, for some wild reason, they can't convict her of her new crime since Batman caught her, she's being returned to finish her sentence in Arkham.
Yeah this isn't the first time she's been apprehended.
Also it's a mental institute designed for people who are very dangerous in their insanity and highly likely to hurt others.
I mean her whole thing is being an ecoterrorist. She's pretty much THE Batman villain most capable of, and most willing to, engage in acts of mass murder.
@@MangoJester yeah, well... the weird thing with Ivy is she usually has killing people as plan B though. she does some really crazy stuff, but she doesn't usually start with murder.
@@MangoJester umm... Joker anyone? He'd commit mass murder for the lulz.
Interestingly, in her first appearance in the series, she winds up incarcerated at Stone Gate Penitentiary, even though she was apprehended by Batman. So what happened to the rules in Gotham between these episodes?
That was actually pretty neat, I've seen educational uses of Law & Order, but actually seeing it applied to a Batman episode was a treat.
Batman: The animated series was without a doubt one of the best cartoons shows ever, not just great voice actors, but great storylines, character arcs, and dialogue.
It's okay.
Plus the sequel/spinoff Batman Beyond.
I actually don’t like the voices besides Mark Hamill… not even Batman… though Conroy sounds better later in the Arkham games.
It's totally worth tracking down the _Batman Beyond: Revenge of the Joker_ movie. Make sure you get the uncensored version --- 91% on rottentomatoes!
Not to mention the best Theme music.
"Is someone supposed to be writing this down?"
How is the Joker not familiar with court proceedings? He must've been on trial a hundred times!
Well it's the Joker who given his insanity would likely not notice or care about something so mundane. Also as the Joker he is going to be looking to say something funny even if its only funny to him.
@@oneearrabbit Doubtful. The joker is all about "look at me" so he would take note of his actins being recorded.
That's a big maybe, @@oneearrabbit. We could see a flamboyant egotist thinking certain common knowledge is beneath him having need of, sure. Joker's a smart foe, though, so you'd expect him to know the basics. How about if we just figure he's joking? :-)
he is also nuts sooo there is not much caring for his item
Um, he's certifiably insane? So......there ya go. Can't pay attention to everything!
Unless your talking the Heath Ledger/Dark Knight Joker, because how the heck DID he plan all that without something going wrong?!?!?!?!?! lol
@ 17:24
Fun Fact: Gotham is actually in New Jersey and Metropolis is right across the bay in Delaware.
I've heard this before but in Batman & Mr. Freeze: Subzero, Barabra Gordon's organ donor profile states she lives in Gotham City, NY. The area code show, 10025, is for NYC.
to be fair the "electric chair" is actually an electroshock therapy table, which does fit as being in an asylum such as arkham.
Mark Hamil is a legendary Joker. He is the iconic voice and has perfected the character.
Still the best no matter the rest
i will state for the record that the adam west version of batman was a deputized agent of the gotham police department, however later versions dropped that from the batman mythos.
Rip bright knight
The adam west Batman is its own thing. The backbone of the so called mythos is a comics thing. The show introduces things later adapted into the comics like Barbara Gordon but it is its own thing with it's own relationship dynamics.
I have to agree. That Commissioner Gordon was a complete sycophant fan boy.
"Even though this is New York State..."
Objection! Gotham is actually in New Jersey.
I like how he shouts out the creators. Animated shows don’t always get the recognition they should
TBF, the creators for Batman: TAS is talked about a lot. In fact Bruce Timm was the one who created the Original DC Animated Universe that included Batman, Superman, Static Shock, Batman Beyond, and Justice League.
Bruce Timm and Paul Dini are quite legendary in their field.
This was one of my favorite episodes. I loved how the lawyer changed her view on Batman after really getting a view the villains. Even saying “I honestly thought Batman created all of you. But it's clear that of all YOU created HIM”.
More accurately, the villains created the NEED for someone like him, but the overall point still stands.
@@louisduarte8763 The wording tends to wildly apply in either case.
I think this is just a trope that happens all the time in Superhero comics: "Create Your Own Villain/Create Your Own Hero." Either a hero is born and the villains only show up to make him more competent, or the Hero ends up becoming one in order to stop a villain they accidentally caused to exist as a result of disregarding the life of another. Or both.
Pick any Spider-man/Hulk/Wolverine/Ghost Rider/Avengers comic and the rest of the argument speaks for itself.
"Will Batman get a happy ending from me..."
Gives Batman a D.
Devin knew what he was doing.
Phrasing
*Oh my*
Technically a D-, which I've seen some people claim is equal to 8.
Batman's cowl is designed that way for a reason 😏
In the original live action TV show, Batman was portrayed as being in cooperation with Gotham City Police. He wasn't as much of a vigilante. He also had vast knowledge of the law and would always do his best to obey it. That version was a much better role model.
I always loved mark Hammills delivery of “and as we are so rotten vile and depraved..”
Pretty sure the nonsequitor was "We are sending you BACK to Arkham" in the sense that she escaped and didn't finish serving an allotted time there that she was mandated to.
Maybe they're saying that because Batman did the arrest they can't sentence them again, and all they can do is just send them back to arkham to continue a previous sentence that was cut short by their escape. Still not a good real world argument, and it doesn't make sense that they even got to the judge if that's the case. But i think it makes a bit of sense in the weird comic book world of gotham.
It's probably because she _escaped_ from Arkham in the first place.
It's an asylum for the criminally insane, not a prison. She's not serving a term, she's supposed to stay here until she's cured, or until the next budget cut, whichever comes first.
@@Llurr-e9n But if she was in Arkham before, isn't it presumably because Batman caught her the first time? He seems to be the only guy in the city who can stop criminals in weird costumes.
The verdict is perfect because they chose the least predictable person to be the foreman. Mad Hatter is not deliberately malicious, he's just insane.
He is also a pedo. He is obsessed with any young 11 year old blonde girls who were named Alice.
Hearing him joke about "going from the jury to the witness stand" actually made me think about a moment from a phoenix wright case that is arguably more ridiculous.
In it, at one point a jury member turns out to have been an indirect witness and even a contributor to the assault on trial (she was fighting with her husband in her apartment and one of the objects thrown went out a window and hit someone, and ppl thought it was a murder) so she goes from being in the jury, being on the witness stand, being on the witness stand WITH HER HUSBAND, and finally her husband taking her place on the jury because she fainted.
It's... its a clusterfuck.
I actually really enjoyed this video. Three things I wanted to point out, though.
1. They said Poison Ivy was being RETURNED to Arkham. She was sent there for treatment after a previous trial, but escaped. The opening court scene was to determine if they would try her for crimes she committed after her escape. They dropped those charges, but she still had to go back to Arkham.
2. You pointed out that the villains were irrational for not just killing Batman. But remember; they are insane. Most of them have obsessions or compulsions they cannot break, like how Joker only wants Batman dead if he personally comes up with the plan and carries out the act, or how Riddler literally cannot stop himself from leaving riddles even when he doesn't want to do so.
3. Arkham is a very old and outdated facility. I believe it may well have been a prison at some point, but at the very least it was built back during a time when "psychiatric treatment" meant locking people in padded rooms and throwing away the key. I seem to remember there are episodes where they address how crappy Arkham is, but I could be wrong.
Ark was all was for the metally ill but latter became for the criminal ill abd super powered thugs
3. I believe lock up explores the concept
the Lock Up episode explored the patients being abused in Arkham.
There not insane that's a legal term legally there no
@tfordham13 I'm pretty sure they are. You are right; "insane" is a legal term, not a medical one. But these are all criminals who a court ruled were insane. So legally, yes; they would be insane.
There isn't enough time left in the universe for Batman to serve his sentences.
Ever read Neil Gaiman's "whatever happened to the Caped Crusader"?
His afterlife reward for being Batman is getting reincarnated as Batman.
That's as much a punishment as it is a reward.
tell that to darkseid
@@Burner-B And he wouldn't have it any other way.
@@DovahFett that's why it's framed as a reward ;)
And it is a perfect Neil Gaiman ending too.
Probably for the best if he serves them concurrently.
"Record? Is someone supposed to be writing this down?"
God the Joker is funny even when not joking.
OBJECTION!
The Joker is always Joking!
@@christianali5431 OVERRULED! He never jokes when it comes to paying taxes. I refer you to:
"I'm crazy enough to take on Batman but the IRA, no thank you."
@@666Vampirefromhell You mean IRS? IRA is... well.... a terrorist organization.
@@marhawkman303 unless joker owned money to the mobs?
@@alexanderhood8993 I mean, possible sure... but they're not known to operate in Gotham.
Judge Joker: *Breathes*
Lawyer: That's incorrect!
"This definitely looks like a prison"
I think the depiction of Arkham is quite realistic. Have you ever seen the Broadmoor Mental Hospital?
I agree
Or Bedlam hospital
Is it cannon that Arkham was a really old mental hospital where there where basicly prisons? Also the fact the get the super villain crazy need to be more prison like to keep them from braking out ( like the actual try at all anymore)
It’s supposed to be that way, that’s why the reason some of them are there is lenient. Though I would say the majority of them are actually not mentally stable
Joker, two face, riddler, Harley Quinn, Scarecrow, Scarface, Mad hatter, and even Ivy to an extent.
And Clay-face, and Croc in some continuities
@@legolad7477 In media outside of BTAS, Croc is considered legally sane and does his time at Blackgate Prison. It’s also worth noting that in the show that’s where the Penguin is sent.
"Batman is not being judged by a jury of his peers." Is there really another panel of people that are closer to Batman mentally though? 🤣
The Justice League!
Also, what is the jurisdiction of this court ? If its Arkham Asylum, wouldn't a jury of his peers be exactly composed of villains ??
the justice league
The Batfamily
@@darlalathan6143 The Justice League is made up of people that worked with Batman closely, and generally look up to him as one of the founding leaders, so they'd be biased.
Pretty sure this was a 'kangaroo court' setting from the getgo: I mean, we have a jury of villains who already want Batman dead, A clown with the gavel, hell, the only one here who is even qualified to the the job is Two Face, but even I cannot say Harvey's the one doing the job in this instance. But honestly, still a good Batman: TAS episode.
Totally agree
And this is based on a comic where Batman is put on trial by The Joker and the jury is made up of henchmen dressed like The Joker. They called it a Joker Jury.
@@ElFino013 Well son of a bitch, learn something new every day.
The electric chair isn't for execution. It used to be common practice to attempt to rehabilitate inmates through "electro-shock therapy", which used a modified electric chair or electrodes stabbed directly into the brain to apply voltage. The intent was that through controlled application of electric shocks, a person could be reprogrammed through negative reinforcement or selective lobotomy.
The child-like joy he expresses at the opening is heartwarming.
18:33
THANK YOU for giving it two grades. You've made that key distinction between subjective entertainment value and applying rational standards. Humanity's core problem is the failure to do this all the time.
This brings up a very interesting point. Batman is effectively performing citizen's arrest of criminals.
I think everyone has heard of these but almost no one knows how it's done.That subject deserves a video all on it's own.
I imagine it's a minefield of potential problems!
I second that.
that's what I thought. Regardless if Batman is considered as a vigilante. He can still make a citizen arrest which most superheroes do since they are not sworn in or dutupized law enforcement.
He touches on this during his Dark Knight video, but I would love a full video highlighting all of Batman’s potential crimes throughout the history of the character.
Especially in Texas, now...
It normally works with you seeing a violent felony (or a violent misdemeanor depending on the state) and stopping the criminal if they attempting to run. I think ordinary citizens could compile evidence and bring it to authorities without it getting thrown out. They could not trespass, steal, or initiate violence against someone who they didn't see commit a crime. Legal Batman would follow criminals and give police evidence. (Like a detective.) Or he could just screw the law and do what's right.
14:30 I think that IS a plastic flower, she's just using it as a prop to rile up Ivy.
Fun fact: This episode's plot would've been later inspired for the unmade 5th Batman movie in the late 90s with Batman locked up in Arkham Asylum with Scarecrow (being his doctor) using his fear gas based on Bruce's nightmares, and show villains from the prior films in a court room dedicated Batman's trials on murdering them and how he's no different from them. As well as seeing Joker as a hallucination.
God, this sounds cool.
I would’ve taken that movie instead of whatever the forth movie was
That plot effectively was recycled into the plot of Batman: Arkham Knight. Whether that was intentional or not I have no idea.
The Dark Knight Returns shows this but replace The Batman with Commissisoner Gordon.
Batman unchained?
12:47 "He was committing intentional acts"
*hatter charging batman with an axe*
I don't know if that was intentional or not but that made me laugh.
Almost certainly intentional why else would that clip be used of all the hatter clips possible?
_intentional axe_ wow that's funny
Batman was originally written in the 1940s (appeared May 1939), so unfair trials with stacked juries and corrupt judges sounds pretty much spot on for some aspects of America’s legal system at the time. Some might argue that criminal prosecution today isn’t really about serving justice either but really about enforcing order on (mostly) the poor.
You should really read the graphic novel that came out a few years ago "Batman: White Knight" ... REALLY good and on-topic for sure! Basically, Batman is apprehended for all the laws he's broken trying to hunt down these criminals. Joker actually "cleans up" a bit and studies law in order to defend himself and then goes on to become Mayor of Gotham! All sort of other things happen and I'd LOVE to hear your take on the graphic novel. Sadly it's not in video form yet (to my knowledge) so that makes it a little more difficult though. Seriously, REALLY good read!
The one thing I didn't like about that series was that The Joker was an alternate personality created after Jack Napier's accident. That's Arnold Wesker and Harvey Dent's thing.
You should do a episode watching “Knives Out”. Their is a good amount of legal terms thrown around, a will reading, and a murder/suicide. I think it would have a good amount of potential for an episode
"But will he get a happy ending from me?" And now that sound clip is out in the world.
Here's what LegalEagle said [out of context].
18:04
If he hadn't called attention to it himself I never would have noticed.
Batman/Legal Eagle slash fic incoming :D
“It looks a lot like a prison”, I think it would, since this particular wing is for only the extreme cases like the rogue gallery as we know it. The other wings may look like a regular hospital setting where the patients are not as harmful.
The entire asylum is for the criminally insane. All of the patients are dangerous.
Well another thing to keep in mind is, if I recall correctly, Arkham asylum was once a prison, then it became an asylum. It became an asylum a LONG time ago, back when what would be considered actual extreme torture was standard operating procedures for extreme mental health issues. Lobotomies, electroshock therapy, etc. Arkham would have all kinds of horrible torture rooms just sitting there collecting dust.
@@SynthApprentice There are still many levels to criminal insanity. If a man rigs traps to his house due to extreme paranoia and one of them unintentionally triggers from a visiting health worker, killing or otherwise harming them, an insanity plea is the fairly obvious defense. Not exactly someone who needs a maximum security cell, but who is still a danger to themselves and others around them.
If I remember I thought Arkham asylum was both a prison and mental asylum
16:44-*Patrick:* SpongeBob, what happened?
*SpongeBob:* ... Joker cheated.
I love when Judge Joker walks in, it's expected, but Mark Hamil was on point with the jokes written in this one.
More like he HAMMERED them in.
His Trickster played a great judge in 90s flash😂
That opening scene is kinda weird, considering that the whole reason Arkham even exists in the comics is because most of Batman’s enemies (with exceptions like Ra’s al Ghul and Bane) are dangerously, mentally ill and Poison Ivy is an ecoterrorist with an obsession with plants, so she should go to Arkham automatically anyways, regardless of whether or not Batman caught her.
As for the vigilante thing, I remember that before DC rebooted its universe in the mid-80s, it was established that all their heroes had been deputized by their home cities to get around the legal issues of “technically, we can’t punish you since Superman caught you”. I don’t know if they did that after the first reboot or not, but Gotham is so notoriously corrupt, most of its government looks the other way at the fact that Commissioner Gordon works so closely with Batman, because there are so few good cops, they have no choice but to rely on Batman.
9:25 I think the implication is supposed to be that Batman is guilty before the trial. By having a jury of Arkham Inmates to determine his guilt and thereby conclude that Batman is the same as the others, would make those inmates the closest to his peers. It's still improper, but wouldn't surprise me if these writers meant it that way. Batman TAS was on its A-game.
That jury looks completely fair to me 😂
6:29 - You’re probably not imagining it. The Timmverse writers were great at getting crap past the radar. That’s part of what made the shows so good.
Especially in The two Justice League Shows and Batman Beyond.
Like when Harley was covered in pie cream and uhm, insinuated to be nekkid and said, "Ya want some of my *pie,* puddin'? I'm sure you'll want seconds!"
The entire show was constant sex jokes that went right over all our heads but it's still great. HBOmax has the whole series and all the animated movies too
@@bb-ih9hg The most blatant one was probably Atom being carried through wonder woman's boobs
Old comment but, if this show was made today, exactly the same way, people would rip it apart for all of its "inappropriate" content
Paul Dini and Bruce Timm got away with a LOT of innuendo jokes. It's how Harley Quinn was born from this series (seriously...her first appearance was "Joker's Favor" season 1, eps. 7).
The electric rack in Arkham isn't an execution device - it's meant for shock therapy, and is only being repurposed for lethal means by jacking up the voltage. This show uses the 30s/40s for visual inspiration pretty often, so it makes total sense that that device would be at Arkham.
I just realized the DA’s theory about Batman being responsible for creating most of his villains is incorrect considering most Batman villains exist because of stuff outside of Bruce taking up the cowl the only leg she can stand on is Joker and even then the film Joker does prove that someone can become Joker without the need of Batman (depending on whether or not Joker is told truthfully)
It's a general talking point in some legal circles, I think. Batman's behavior could be considered agitating, for folks who don't know everyone's backstory. It's the typical J Jonah Jameson take. "Everything was fine until The Superhero showed up."
The DA does come to the realization that Batman's villains created him first. Joker, most of all because if he hadn't murdered Phantasm's father, she wouldn't have called off her engagement to Bruce which means that he wouldn't have become Batman nor would she become Phantasm.
I mean obviously in a show about Batman, Batman is not going to be the bad guy so like yeah. But I mean this is a fictional show and I feel like this episode is about lampshading the fact that in the real world Batman would obviously not be completely innocent here and his behavior is obviously escalating these conflicts to the point where they become extremely dangerous. Like a lot of the time the villain is literally just doing this to get revenge on Batman.
Not quite.
As the lawyer said, some might have gimmicks or not but the villains were still their root for their own problems.
The Joker himself at least in this continuity was already a sadistic mobster who killed for profit and fun, so he was not a victim himself.
Maybe she meant that having a heroic figure as a symbol for the crazies creates villains to challenge him.
Or just that they live in the DC universe and there is a cosmic law that super heros attract villains, or vice versa. People think super heros are to blame since before they showed up most either didn't exist or stayed in the shadows.
I love everything about this episode! I Didn't think you could be much better and THEN There was the scrubs reference in the add!!!!! LOL AWSOME!!
Anyone notice that, during the Mad Hatter's scene, the lawyer's talking about Hatter causing 'intentional acts' and there's a graphic of Hatter swinging an intentional axe at Batman? If he planned this, well done, sir.
Hahahaha! If this act was indeed intentional, that is damn hilarious.
Come for the legal jargon, stay for the editor.
grown man in suit : " I watched Batman: TAS as a kid"
me: " wait.... that came out in my 30s!"
Objection: As biased as that jury seems, they were able to put that aside and deliver a very unlikely not guilty verdict.
For the reason they knew, that even if Batman would win, they would execute him anyway. So there was no problem for them, being "generous" with their not guilty verdict.
“Record ? Is someone supposed to be writing this down! ? “ 😂😂
Expert Opinion:
The reason you see these villains get harsh sentences for not even completing the crime is actually an A.R.G.U.S. precedent.
In this continuity Amanda Waller is as ruthless as she is in the comics. She actually has criminals put on long charges so they are more inclined for experimental testing, and at this time, A.R.G.U.S. Experts were starting Suicide Squad planning.
That's an ECT (Electro-Convulsive Therapy) table. Arkham definitely has one of those.
i was going to comment this, but i see i don't need to
except E.C.T. is not, and never was, done in a chair like that.
@@r.b.rozier9692 except that's not a chair, that's a table, and it most definitely was, it just wasn't kept upright once the patient was strapped to it
And I can just about guarantee that it isn't used properly.
@@r.b.rozier9692 That's not a chair in the episode...hence my calling it a table.
Objection! "The jury must be a representative cross sample in that geographical location" If the geographical location is restricted to Arkham, they are a representative cross sample of the residents.
Thank you for your time and effort to make this video and share your knowledge with us. Greetings from Croatia.
Leagleagle:,,Will he get a happy ending from me?"
Me looking up from my phone: Excuse me what?
I thought the same thing especially since he said it about the lawyer first which sounded even worse; I mean I know they worked out their distrust but that would really be a surprise
Objection:
The judge is sending Poison Ivy back to Arkham Asylum after she broke out. Furthermore, Arkham has supposedly been around for a very long time and has not been updated since its construction.
The DC writers have been bribing the warden lol
Sustained: Arkham Asylum famously has revolving door policy because status quo is God.
Also: Arkham Asylum is lead by Hugo Strange! His methods aren't exactly by the books. :D
Then the judge's mention of batman was irrelevant.
@@AbMaSync Yes. I think that was just Checkov's Gun.
"In Batman the Animated Series, I don't think anyone actually dies."
Except Bruce Wayne's parents, of course.
According the the DCAU Wiki, excluding Robin's parents, 5+ people die. Less than I thought honestly.
Oof, he’s an orphan
it's the uncle ben clause... those characters must always die
and the Joker
Everytime
@12:18 I love how even the joker is like "eh this guy is creeping me out"