Why I went back to a Conventional OWB from Gasification OWB. Polar G2plus Vs Portage & Main 34/44
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- After running the same OWB for 30 years I changed into a POLAR G2 Plus gasification or downdraft high efficiency wood boiler. In this video I talk about why it didn't work for me and some things I should of considered before getting it for my heating needs. I switched to the newest version of a conventional OWB (Portage & Main BL 34/44) and after 4 months Im having no issues
#OWB #Polarwoodboiler #Portage&Main #Downdraftvsconventional
www.portageandmainboilers.com
www.curriecountryliving.com
@travhal
00:00 start
1:03 Why I changed to conventional from Gasification
7:02 Talk with Travis on P&M conventional OWB front of stove
22:03 Talk with Travis on P&M conventional OWB Back of stove
26:50 Closing remarks
In 1990 i put in a heatmore 200. It has burned 15 cord a year every year. I heat my house, shop and 2 cattle waterers. It'll die one day, and I will probably go to lp. Enjoy your videos. Thanks
30 years on that Aquatherm. That’s pretty darn awesome!
Great video! Thank you for sharing this information.
Excellent Video. Thanks!!
Very well informed and educated Sales person. Great video👍
Thank you for the time and effort, great info. I've been running a CB 5036 for 2yrs 24×7 and love it. I purchased it used which I dont recomend but I got lucky. Heats a 1200ft house and domestic water here in Eastern Illinois, not the winters you Northerners have no doubt but cold enough!
I've been tending a CB CL5036 since 2015 and it's a terrible machine. Only positive really that the steel is so thick that damaging them requires intent. Central Boiler is run by welders selling metal in the shape of a boiler. They're not engineers, and there are many a good reasons they're not legal for residential installations in the US anymore. Can't say enough bad about the "Classic" line.
You provided a ton of good, solid general information. The “salesman” did pretty good, but you outshined him. The fire brick and the two sections are game changers and make the “Portage Main” head and shoulders above the competition. Georgia, USA!
The thing with Trav is I never feel he's trying to push anything on me. He points things to look at and consider when looking at OWB. He will agree HeatMaster for instance makes a good Boiler....he just knows Portage and Main makes a better one :)
You are very fortunate to live in Canada, as those Portage and Main OWBs are very hard to come by in the US. I am using a conventional OWB now (going on 17 seasons) and am very skeptical of the gasification units. Having a good dealer to work with can make all the difference as you well know. Thank you for the great video and info.
I am not sure how the network for P&M works in the states but I do know lots are shipped from the factory here in Southern Mb down there. My experience with gasification was underestimating just how much of a pain in the ass a 8-10 hour load was compared to a 12-14 hour load lol
Just liked and subscribed. I have the smallest Heatmore for a shop/apartment at just under 3000 sq. ft. and will be adding a house at 1500 so thinking about a new unit. My available wood is Tamarak and D.fir that tend to have pitch. I fear a gasifier where the wood needs to be dry and perfect.
Ya the wood really does need to be dry or enough of it to blend it with higher moisture to keep them efficient
I use a 2000 gal water tank (large old propane tank spray foamed _) use it to store hot water, less burns
How does that work for you I was thinking of doing something similar.
I don’t know why more people don’t use stored heat. Being able to burn hotter with less idle makes a huge difference in efficiency and Smokey boilers
I appreciate the video. It was very thorough. I have a Polar G2+ which I have had since 2020. I only heat a 912 sq ft house, my hot water and a 615sq ft garage, and I burn between 8 and 9 cord a year. The 3-4 cord claim is absurd, as I am only in Wisconsin. If I didn't heat the water and garage, then maybe, but doubtful. I agree there is a learning curve for a classifier. Theres an art to loading it properly, especially if you've let it burn down too far it happens, especially if your a single guy taking care of your pups and your stove and working overtime. Just load your gassifire like you'd load a campfire. If it's down to ash and a few coals, bank them over the opening, add small wood, then some larger on top. The key is to keep the heat up to "bake" the new wood. The gassifiers are maintenance heavy, but efficient. While I do not at all agree with a 4 cord/season burn, I have a g2+ heating water, 913 sq ft house and 25x25ish garage at 8.25 cord a winter and that includes mixing in pine and junk wood, especially in shoulder seasons. Anyways thanks for a great video, just had to ad my $0.22 on what I've experienced with my gassisier. My uncle 2 miles down the road has a conventional and he doesn't heat domestic hot water but heats a similar space with almost twice the wood.
Great information! Thanx for your input
Just put in a Central Boiler 760 HDX gasification unit last Oct.What I noticed is small wood amount and just a coat of creosote in the box,but has been really a good unit.Plus the 26% tax credit really helped out too.
I just bought that same unit to replace my old Polar up draft unit. After looking at all the stoves, think that unit was by far the best option. However I don’t get that tax credit here in Manitoba
I’m looking at same unit, what price level are these at?
@@jasonchopp6922 I know right....huge incentive in the states to go gasification. Where in Mb are you located? La Riviere/Pilot Mound area here
@@donchristie420 2 years ago in Manitoba without and Tax incentives I paid $13,800 Canadian
@@curriecountryliving thanx
I don't know about shipping to the states, but I'm going to look into it. My house is similar to yours, built in 1918. I still have 2 large radiators but currently use electric forced air, which is quite costly to run.
They have dealers in the states. What area are you in
@@curriecountryliving I'm in northeast Nebraska, near northwest Iowa and southeast south dakota.
Ooo the old square footage sizing, drives me nutz too.
I'm in Alberta, I have a gasser, love it. Its oversized for now until I get everything I need.
Key thing with a gasser is you need dry wood, 2 - 4 years seasoned.
I'm burning 8 to 12" rounds in mine but I found a loophole that works here.
Thanks for the video.
What's the loophole?
@Richard Dabkowski Sorry for the late reply, I was busy. Its a long one. I can elaborate on anything if you or someone else want more info.
What started out as a fire smart clean up around my boiler quickly turned into my primary source of fuel. I believe I'm at 26 cords burned now, all but 1.5 have been standing dead or dry dead fall (mostly white poplar/aspen and willow). The porosity of the dead tree allows the 24" long rounds to dry well below 16% M.C. which is my cutoff. The manufacturer states drier than 20% but below 16% my required cleaning drops to almost nothing so it becomes a very easy process. From boots and clothes on, feeding, checks, some cleaning to boots off I'm five minutes or less, twice a day down to -20C, then it takes slightly more time.
If the trees died this year the areas with bark are still too wet, averaging 24%. I drop them and stack them in 10 foot lengths for next year. The tress that died 2 years ago or more are 16% or less down to the trunk, I harvest these along with the tops of the wetter trees and burn immediately as most have bugs in them. Depending on the current weather I am also able to harvest dead fall.
Now due to the fact that it is rotten the wood has less weight which does affect your BTU output. I find the gassification boilers can utilize much more of this heat over any conventional unit. I oversized my boiler because I only have access to low grade firewood which allows me to get away with this. The slight loss in output means that I use more wood, but because it is dry enough to burn as a round I save tons of time not having to split and re-handle the wood. Typically I will mix the twigs and rounds together but I have ran many burn cycles with only big ones in there with no issues maintaining a coal bed.
Rough calculations put me at using 120,000 btu/hr at -39C to heat the shop and house. I can still do a 12 hr burn with this wood at this temp. My 750HD has a ~160,000 btu/hr rating over a 12 hour fill, not sure what wood was burned during the test. I've only calculated one main burn cycle, from the kick in temp with dead coals to the cut out temp it put out an average of 234,000 BTU over the 23 minute burn with this wood.
I know, too long.
Which OWB gasser do you have? I'm in your area and looking to build and heat with an OWB gasser.
@@ryancletourneau I mentioned the model in the long comment above.
I have the Central Boiler 750HD. Older version of the 760HDX.
@@ryancletourneau I'm NW of Edmonton. Only dealers close to me were the CB or a Heatmaster. I chose the CB because of the data-logging and the app. Heatmaster has it now ( I think ).
Awesome video. Lot of great info. Unfortunately I too undersized my boiler🤦♂️. That P&M looks nice, is the aquastat in the back the main temp control for that unit?
So there are 2 aqua stats in the back. The digital one which you can program your set points for waters temp in boiler and differential ( mine is currently set for on at 170F and 18OF off) The second aqua stat is safety and will shut the fans off at what ever temp you set it at ( mine is 195)
The most useful add on Ive put on any of my wood boilers is an ink bird wifi temperature probe. I can monitor the stove from my phone and set it to send me alarms ( high and low) where ever I am . My set points for it are 140 and 190.
What stove are you running Andrew....are you upsizing or just stoking more often?
@@curriecountryliving I have an empyre boiler. It's a shame Profab closed their doors, it was nice to be able to support a Manitoba company when I bought it. I'm not terribly undersized, 12hr burns til about -20C with poplar. Full 3 stokes sub-30. That inkbird is a great idea, I'll have to look into that. I adjust my boiler temperature quite often depending on the outside temperature, that's why I was curious how the P&M was set up.
I too am in Manitoba I've been wanting to install a wood boiler. I dont have as much space to heat but I've been debating getting a gasifier for both my house, shop, and water heater.
@@bert26a Don't undersize is all I can say....its really nice to have 12-14 hr burns now
nice buy
I think so too!
Hey, when your calculating your square footage of your house, are you counting each floor, or just main floor square footage? Looks like you have multi floors, and basement?
The house is 30x30. The attic is finished giving us 3 floors living space at 900ft2 each or 2700...the addition without heated garage is 400ft2. The basement technically is not heated altho the pipes from rads etc in basement keep it at around 10 C
Yes I am thinking about buying a portage and main. But I have seen some concerning issue's. I am not sure if it is user error or a flaw in the design, but I will mention both issues. And I hope you will respond. The owner tells me that his stove boils over every time he gets a storm , like one of those Colorado low's. He doesn't understand why. I am thinking that maybe it is something like mine Homesteader and the filler pipe has a flapper lid that is full of condensation ,and in a really windy storm that condensation freezes the lid shut, and I think the boiler builds up pressure and pushes fld. out the breather hose. My cure to that was just push a tight fitting cardboard box over the filler stack ,and that keeps the Windchill of the steel so it doesn't freeze up. I am not sure if the portage and main has the same type of problem, maybe you can shed some light on it. And the second man had his portage and main for 6 years and it is rusted out and really bad too. He has a video on you tube about how he takes his boiler apart and try's to fix it himself ,but it is just crumbling at the seem between the top and the bottom halves. His problem was ,that his often boiled over also ,and when it did the water leaked around the filler pipe and the water then leaked into the insulation ,and ran down the upper half to the seam wear the gasket between the two halves would wick up all the water and hold it in that seem , and when he took it apart after only six years because it was leaking water , that seem was so bad it just crumbled . so the video ended before he told us what he ended up doing to repair it. But that is only two that I have checked out and they both seem to have a boiling over issue. Have you experienced the same kind of issues with yours, Any info would be apricated.
Never had a boiling over over issue with mine but if it does theres air leaking in somewhere allowing the firebox to keep burning when the thermostate shuts the fan off. The damper is a good place to start followed by the door gaskets or door adjustment. As far as rusting out as long as your using the recommended water treatment you shouldn't have to worry about rusting in that short of time .
Great video. Do the conventional meet new EPA standard as same as gasification? I may have missed that point, bacon was cooking. I thought (USA) we couldn't have conventional any longer Can you? Does that secondary burn meet their requirments? I'M like you wet or dry, if it burns toss it in. Thanks
There are no conventional that meet US EPA standard that I have seen or heard of Janine....must be a gasification ( down draft) due to their efficiency. Does that apply to all states? ( can't have conventional ) Here in Canada I know some provinces or municipalities do require gasification. Manitoba ( where I am ) is not one of them. Yes come spring if I'm short of wood I can toss just about any type of wood in this P&M
Alot of folks still buy conventional updraft boilers in the USA. The loop hole is that they are "intended" to burn coal which is how they are still being sold without EPA.
I'd say 9 out of/10 people that buy conventional boilers are burning wood.
@@travhal funny thing is, coal burns so dirty
@A&A that's what I thought but kinda a** backwards with the EPA
@@travhal yeah you’re right. I figure it’s all about control, tax and money and nothing to do with the air and climate. They are trying to shut down coal plants everyday.
Are you going to put out a video on your comparison on the two? Seemed like that part didnt happen.
What can I tell you. Comparing a gasification to a conventional? A conventional is a lot more forgiving and can burn just about anything in it... a gasification you need to pay attention to what's going on from wood moisture to coal bed to BTU out put. Gasification is more effeciant but more work in the long run for me
@@curriecountryliving I guess I was curious on the heating season, wood usage, cost comparison of the units. Stuff like that.
good video / how much is the portage main you looked at
$18,000
Thanks for the info, what is a approximate price of this unit?
2 years ago in Manitoba without and Tax incentives I paid $13,800 Canadian
Are these available in Colorado?
I believe so. I know they made here in Manitoba with a large part of their inventory shipped to the states.
U can rebuild a heatmor. They are 2 piece
Far as I know, they don't advertise a bolt on top section. Just because it's a dry bottom doesn't mean it's rebuildable.
The 3 points that are going for P&M is they have a 360° cooled on all sides, full front to back heat exchanger (chimney out the back), with secondary air (front and shaker grate) and firebrick (less air needed, less heat up the stack with more heat retention). If the design misses even one of those it will lack efficiency.
Also for proper mixing you need a fin/baffle to create some turbulence before going out of the firebox.
Yup, I had an issue with my 400 leaking, I called up heatmor and they had a new top half to my door in 2 weeks and rebuilt it my self.
@@aaronkirchoff6985 we have a dealer in town he told me the same thing! Pretty easy to do I hear and their warranty is really good too
@@AATreeService yup I paided for shipping, they warrantied the tank due to manufacturer defect. It started to leak at one of the welds and at that time it was 12 years old. Super easy company to deal with.
@@aaronkirchoff6985 they have been around for a long time and they have an outstanding reputation for quality and warranty. I will probably get one due to them being American made for my next stove. I’d buy a portage possibly but the massive amount of firebrick scares me. That’s probably an easy 1000-2000 dollars to replace.
I was watching about wood burning gasefiers for running aug geberatirs. Nowitsheater?? Wut??
I told you when you bought it . (polar) It wouldn't work .
....now your starting to sound like my mom :)
@@curriecountryliving Haha I'm sorry , keep in mind I only knew this because I myself had installed a gasifier ( viessman KOB ) and took it out a few years later because it was always something :D
Huge huge waste of money... probably a 10-15 year payback at best
Thank you for your opinion
I built my own1 year ROI.
About 5 I my electric bills are are 3-4000 less in the winter