For anyone who cares I will be making a video on Tekken 8's story😃 just waiting for the hype to die down as I've seen that game recieve a lot of praise for its story
If you hated the over hype actionfest of T7 I can't wait to see what youve got for T8's story. 😂 By the end of T8 I just didnt care anymore. The FGC will buy into anything for hype. If a good story represented good sales, Namco wouldnt have Made Soul Calibur 4-5, and T7 being successful unfortunately proved to them that they can put in the lowest effort possible with the lowest budget and rake in gold. As bad as TT2 was gameplay-wise, it had content like mad, all for the single price of admission (a lot of characters, customization, huge soundtrack, lots of stages, extra modes) and it flopped like a beached seal. T7 is proof that fighting game players only want to suffer and that they'll willingly pay for the whip and chains.
@@thaddeusmarcuscheeleyjr.786 Truth be told, I didn't hate T8's story, nor do I think it's irredeemable like T7. However, it was frustrating in some areas because I could see the potential for it to be great. They had a clear beginning and end for the story in mind, but the middle is where they struggled. I will say though a lot of people were dishonest when discussing the story when the game came out listing it as 10/10
@@NotMattMurdockOf course they called it a 10/10 story. Again, the Fighting game community is the only community that will eat hype readily regardless of its ability to be digested. No other genre has a core community that will vehemently ignore or flat out lie about an aspect of a game to such an extent that people outside looking in would be looking at them in confusion. Like if an RPG has a terrible combat system, it doesn't matter how good the characters are, the combat would be talked about to hell and back and it wouldn't be played. Fighting games could literally have terrible graphics and crap characters/stories and as long as the game plays well and has rollback netcode, they'll ignore those things. T8 certainly wasn't as bad as T7's story but it wasn't exactly good either. Like just because a bullet to the skull doesn't kill you doesn't make it painless. It does start strong but then it quickly dilutes itself and I was certain that would be the case because a lot of fighting games like to show off the start or ending of the game's story early for hype (T8's first trailer is literally the ending of the game) but once you get the game in front of you you realize that the hype is 1/10 of the game and the other 9/10's is a meandering slog of convoluted stories and things that seem like they just threw things together just to get it out the door. Like All the fights in T8's story mode have the basic fight intros. That's not necessarily bad, but you have to take into account the context and it just seems odd that they would have what basically ammounts to flavor text between people who know each other be a part of it's story (Like Xiaoyu fighting Jin when they're in the forest and saying that a fight can reveal true feelings. In the context of them being there to find the origin of Jin's devil power, what does that line have to do with anything? What does fighting Xiaoyu right now do for the story, while you're technically on the run and your allies are all actively in a ground war to stall for time for you? It just doesn't make any sense. I was doubtful of Tekken re-grounding itself after T5, but after T7, I knew that nothing could get the hypetrain back on track. It's too far gone and the passengers have already paid too much for their spot inside so none of them wants to admit that yes the fighting aspect of the games have gotten better but the games story and character (along with the content imo) have long since been tossed overboard in order to keep the speed high.
20:37 Harada being a Heihachi fanboy is to blame. He tries to portray Heihachi as the lesser of 2 evils compared to Kazuya when it's the other way around and also paints Heihachi as tragic and Kazuya as an irredeemable monster when Heihachi is why Kazuya's the way he is. It doesn't excuse Kazuya's actions but his dad chained his granddad under the family dojo, killed his mother for trying to stop Heihachi's world domination plans, abused him and beat a "survival of the fittest" mindset into him then threw him off a cliff and basically said "You're not my son if you don't climb back up."
In retrospect, I do understand what they were trying to do with Heihachi's character in T7, but I can't understand why they chose Heihachi, of all characters, to make sympathetic. He embraced his evil and pursuit of power as much as Kazuya did, and his heel turn still makes no sense. And yeah, while Kazuya's downfall is understandable, it isn't excusable. I feel as though that was the vibe I was giving people with my older videos.
Yeah, Tekken's story started to spiral all over the place ever since Tekken 5, especially in Tekken 6. And yeah, Heihachi does not fit the tragic villain role at all, he's a sadistic villain.
One way i could see Heihachi retcon working if that was catalyst of Heihachi becoming ruthless, evil scumbag we know him for and after Kasumi's betrayal he closed his heart forever after tragedy and believes in absolute power in which is why he throws Kazuya off the cliff to test if he is truly strong.
In my opinion Akuma should’ve never been a canon Tekken character why ? Because if he was just a normal guest in Tekken 7 that has nothing to do with the main plot of the story then that’s perfectly fine, Harada and the Tekken team could’ve just create a character who has the devil gene who is related to Kazumi to get his revenge on Heihachi and Kazyua that would’ve been a way better story.
Akuma was simply a cash grab to get butts in the seats. They couldn't even be bothered to make a character episode or one cutscene showcasing how he and Kazumi met. Akuma has a bigger impact in the story compared to the characters we've followed for years and then just magically disappears in Tekken 8, and is never mentioned again.
I have a theory about what happened to the story. I think it was changed half way through. I started thinking about this since I couldn’t wrap my head around why they’d cancel the tournament despite it being important in every other entry including 8. Unless the first draft had the tournament with the final battle being a parallel to tekken 1 and 2 but when they secured the guest characters they thought it be cooler to have Akuma instead. That’s why 2/3 of the cast were shafted they were supposed to show up in the tournament. Thats why we have the Jin detour it was a plot point from before the change to justify why Jin wasn’t competing. Thats why the reporter scenes are so low quality they needed a new framing device to have everything blend together better. Thats why the satellite shit was there to justify more Akuma scenes. It’s just a theory but it’s plausible cause no way did they have a guest character in mind for the story from the start.
23:28, on Akuma, There's a cut line between Kaz and Akuma. "When I was young, my mother told me that for ages the Hachijo family has been akin to demons. Are you the same?" It goes some way to explaining it, but it's all bullshit.
I saw someone comment that before, but even still, Akuma's inclusion into the story was a bad move. A. They failed to make a reasonable explanation for his inclusion within the base story. B. They didn't even bother giving him or Kazumi character episodes to explain it. C. Having an iconic figure from your direct competitor's franchise play a bigger part in your story than the characters from your own franchise screams that you don't have faith in your characters. But it's only this bad because of how badly they've been written. Akuma should've just been written as he is in SF, looking for strong opponents to fight, or have him deem Kazuya too far gone into darkness to train. Chilled Scrub suggested that a Hachijo clan member who was close to Kazumi be controlled by the dark Hado. Anything would've been better than exposing your own plot hole. Appreciate the comment, by the way! Loved your Tekken analysis series👍🏿 Made me view the story in a different light.
@@NotMattMurdockA friend of mine and I always said this: If you're trying to use a Street Fighter character who would fit this plot, if anything, it should've been Gen instead of Akuma.
Asa person who's VERY hyperfixated on Tekken, its characters and lore, I gotta admit that I dislike the direction the story has gone into, and while Tekken 8's story is a definitive improvement over the last game, I still feel like the other characters are not very well-utilized and are still treated as jokes. Heck! Even Mortal 1 Kombat treated its characters with FAR MORE RESPECT!
I can already tell you didn't like TK8's story. I didn't either and it's so frustrating. Tekken has introduced so many elements that could make a very interesting story. But none of them is ever properly explored. Like I said to a friend, it seems that they're more interested in keeping Tekken' s world record of longest running story than progressing it in a meaningful way. At least the story was, better told this time. But it still lacks substance.
Dude! Super sick video! I got into Tekken when Tekken 7 released, and have not played the other entries in the franchise other than Tekken 3 when I was very young like 17+ years ago. Despite that, I'm very interested in the story, because it has some seriously captivating elements to it. You can make pretty much any kind of story work, despite how strange it might be, but what mucks up Tekken is the constant rewrites and retcons. It hurts the ability to take anything seriously because when you set the precedent that the story CAN be changed on a whim, why am I supposed to be invested in these characters and this world if it can change in fundamental and most importantly *Incongruent* ways? Things should change and evolve, and is why Tekken 3's addition to the franchise kicks so much ass. Tekken 3 changes the story in a big way, but it doesn't really shittily retcon anything. It just *Progresses* the narrative rather than regressing it, altering the audience's previous perception of the events, or staying stagnant. My biggest problem with Tekken 7 and Tekken 4 is how much they take away from Kazuya. Heihachi is important to start the story, but what branches out from the story is rooted in Kazuya, *NOT* Heihachi. Kazuya falls to the bottom of the cliff and makes the choice (It's a *SHITTY* no good, terrible choice to have to choose. To die or not die, and also be like 5 years old when confronted with such a dilemma, but a choice nonetheless) to make that Deal With The Devil. It's awesome. It drives the story, and not only does his Deal impact his own narrative, it impacts those who are close to him. Kazuya's Deal With The Devil affects those who did not ask for it. I like Tekken's bold move of having Jin inherit Kazuya's Devil Gene because it feels totally natural. A "Monkey's Paw" situation where Kazuya made The Pact, and didn't realise that it would also affect his offspring if he had them. And it makes total sense for The Devil to omit that. Like: "Oh. Sorry. I'm definitely going to infect your kid's mind and body as well. That was part of The Contract, you just didn't ask, so I didn't think it was important to bring up 😈" When you make it a Bloodline Attribute rather than a choice, it reduces Kazuya and Jin's agency in the matter. Kazuya and by extension Jin suffer from something that isn't really a negative, it's just a *Thing* Choices. The initial ideas and themes pursued by The Mishima Storyline are about choices. When Tekken 4 asserts it's something Kazuya just *Has* it reduces Heihachi's choice to throw him down the cliff. It reduces Jin's choice to fight against The Devil. It's very important that Jin suffers from being a byproduct of Kazuya's *Choice* It's the same with Kazumi. The story was fine. The story was good. There was no need to change it. Changing it made it worse, not better. I don't understand what they were thinking. Tekken 7's storytelling is very emblematic of high-profile storytelling nowadays and their refusal to innovate or progress forward. Times moves on. That's what's so cool about Tekken 3. They didn't stick to the status quo. They progressed the story 20 years, and in the 20 real life years it's been since Tekken 3's release, in storyline has only progressed what, like 2-3 years? Maybe? I don't even think it's that long. It's depressing. Makes me want to throw up. Anyways, cool vid. 👍
Well said. Thanks for the kind words. Glad you enjoyed the video. A lot of problems with FG stories that came out around the time of T7 is that they just made their story bigger instead of focusing on making a solid story. Tekken needs to calm tf down with the retcons too
10:47 ok that I’ll kinda defend since the logic was supposed to be flawed. This plot point was based on the witch trials particularly ones like the trial by water. You float you’re a witch you sink you aren’t (yes they tried pulling the sinkers out but many still died as a result). Not saying Heihachi isn’t an idiot I’m just saying there’s a sense of logic to this retcon and it isn’t JUST bad writing.
What if instead of Heihachi throwing Kazuya off the cliff to test if he had the Devil Gene, he did to actually kill him due to the bitterness/resentment over Kazumi's betrayal? Something he'd feel Kazuya would be a constant, living reminder of? That'd still be a retcon but one that could work maybe?
I mean that is basically what happened in the game. I think a better way to go about it is to make Heihachi Walter White. Let his ambition for world domination come into conflict with his love for Kazumi and ultimately he chooses the pursuit of power over his family. That would keep his character in line with the previous games
Hey man, great video. There were a lot of insightful points that I hadn’t considered prior to this analysis. I was wondering if you have ever considered making a video dedicated to your own rewriting of the main tekken narrative? I’d be interested to know what you would change
Unfortunately I don't have the time to make a whole video rewriting Tekkens narrative nor has the thought ever crossed my mind. For T7 in particular there are a few changes I'd make. 1. Keep Heihachis character in line with the previous games. Make it to where he loves Kazumi but also craves world domination and still views his son and father as weak. Essentially Walters relationship with Skyler in the later seasons of BB. It would be a clever subversion of the marketing and the story beat with the narrator to have Heihachi lie about the Mishima household being peaceful prior to the Hachijo clan and be in line with his Lex Luthor/Norman Osborn esc facade. 2. Instead of writing Angel out of the story completely just say that she takes the form of Kazuya's mother (seriously how did they not think of that) 3. Rework Akumas inclusion within the story. Showcase how Kazumi saved him and say that he was training this whole time in order to beat Hei and Kaz. They tried mix his SF personality with the motive they gave him in this game and didn't work. 4. If we're gonna reuse the themes of solitude and betrayal showcase how it affects other characters besides Heihachi. He betrayed Kazuya and Jin so we could've seen how it mentally affected them. Give them Legacy of kain style inner dialogues or spend more screentime on them to showcase how they're affected. Gizo suggested that we see Lars internalize Alisa betraying him in T6 and learning to rebuild trust while Heihachi falls into despair. Adding onto that suggestion, Lars and Noctis friendship in the DLC could've explored this where Lars has to learn to trust Noctis and the FF15 gang. Those are the changes I'd make to T7 specifically.
Enjoyed your vid but id have to majorly disagree that Kaguya and Kazumi are cut from the same cloth. Kazumi's devil form debuted very shortly after Kaguys's debut and to claim they randomly had enough money to speed create a character from scratch in a month. Given how Kazumi's design existed for at least 20 years prior (Tekken 90s movie) i dont see how Kazumi is the clone. Their designs arent that similar enough to make that judgement. The Devil Gene clan or "Evil Clan" in general is a common trope in Japanese media. Id agree if Kazumi's design came out a year later or if Kishimoto didnt personally know Harada (He partially designed a Lars costume)
I agree. I genuinely don't know why I made this criticism at the time, probably due to conversations I had with people in my inner circle. I think my main grievance is that the clan came out of nowhere, and that's about it. Live and learn when making critiques, I guess.
The game being a complete mess was due to Bamco having no faith in the series after the underperformance of Tag 2(which is the second worst selling game in the series after Tekken 1). If Tag 2 was a financial success. 7 would've had a significantly higher budget and Harad would've been able(as he intended with the early trailers) to tell the story differently with next to no plot holes. Not to mention there would've been no character episodes and perhaps the entire roster would've been included in the main story in a meaningful manner. However, this doesn't change the fact this game is still mediocre. 8 could either be a big budget 7 or actually a worthy conclusion to the series before 9 is a hard reboot.
I understand T7 had a low budget; I never criticized them on that, just the poor storytelling. That T1 to 3 and Tag 1 were able to convey more emotion without dialogue speaks volumes about how downhill Tekken's story has gone. I really have no idea what Harada's intentions with the story even are anymore because he has several tweets that just change the story on a whim (which I am currently making a video about).
I personally wanted Kiryu. My issue with Negan is that he woulda been a better fit for MK and how he's 1 dimensional compared to how he is in TWD. He's one of the redeeming qualities of that show for me
@@NotMattMurdock funny ass story man. but 8’s was definitely a step up it was corny but it lowkey may be one of the better fighting game stories it didn’t drag at all
at least with sonic the transitions overblown(tbh mario had a worse transition to 3d as it's aged/while i don't think mk's story's the best by a long shot compared to capcom definitely,not even close to arc system works & especially snk scorpion/sub zero's redemption was the best part of it alongside the intros.)while with tekken it really showed the series problem after 5- -heihachi had 2 games before to go into his tragic side as while his appearance in 5 after getting blasted into a graveyard by the jack robots exploding/emerging at the intro's end was comically the only canon thing that happened to him they could've gone more into his past of his clashing ideals with jinpachi and illegitimate children in 6 other than a weak twist to tie lars(who until 8 was a boring attempt to make a good mishima after everyone was villains/wasted.)when outside that he just spent it in hiding not attempting to destroy or take over azazel that his ending doesn't bother with(could've had a huge twist that like the series itself knew azazel was a waste of time not tied to the devil's real origin.). -like the idea of guest characters being tied to/have their own story but akuma's really could've been handled way better(that him in 5 felt like an afterthought with how anticlimactic it felt.)with the possibility it held(go deeper and maybe reveal it was when akuma fought gouken that kazumi revived him to get his 2nd wind on his brother unintentionally leading to ryu/ken's tragedy.)/instead of overall failing to stop kazuya have akuma gather enough energy to revive kazumi ending with him leaving saying his debt is repaid.(maybe have the next character after heihachi be her in 8 showing her about to put a stop to this feud one way or another with how her as a boss in arcade mode was wasted/she should've been revived confronting her son.) -jin's actions in 6 were made pointless by azazel surviving/the gene still being on him that it made his already horrible actions(that 6 does a bad job at with how he intentionally antagonizes everyone/also hypocritical nina trying to give him sympathy when jin at least is broken compared to nina being a childish petty kid with anna being mature to want to bury the hatchet.)meaningless and not as tragic as intended(with how everyone else doesn't try to help like xiayou not doing anything outside a dream sequence showing her as a one note love interest not realizing how bad he's gotten.). -while i love heihachi and felt bad for him(compared to kratos who went overboard with wanting revenge but did even in it had regret that he made up for/sasuke who everyone in naruto outside temari and gaara is a horrible person though is sad kazumi is similar to that series biggest asspull villain in shonen jump following after a mary sue with a extremely stupid as infinite in sonic forces motivation) he did horrible things that while kazuya is more evil(with how badly his humanity was shown outside one non canon ending/angel failing to change him that until 8 jun felt like a fool for thinking he could change giving unsettling undertones to her love)heihachi isn't a saint by comparison as he could've changed his actions at any point. -while not very good the tekken ova(had the best version of nina alongside 4/too bad anna dies in it & lee was a pathetic toadie compared to how awesome he is in the games.) had a way better reason for throwing kazuya off the cliff(doing it to test his strength that while still a dick move is a bit respectful that heihachi knew his son would be strong enough to get back up the cliff,wanted to destroy the devil gene when it ended up in his son and would've killed himself had he failed.) compared to being dumb luck. -kazumi should've stayed alive with how we saw jinpachi live for so long(in my opinion she should've been the evil spirit that possessed jinpachi in 5 that got changed from the devil gene trying to puppet him to take out the mishimas or had the spirit be created by the clan/a member be the owner of honmaruh.) -a lot of the side characters got flanderized like lili being a shallow karin rip off(when for it's issues karin had a great glow up in 5 maturing after alpha 3 to helping sakura & the other street fighter characters that i hope returns in 6.)that ruined asuka's potential/just makes you wonder why they didn't revive jun,law just being "dude not funny" at this point with how pathetic his state is(alongside how his son gets treated worse than dan hibiki)just having the tournament cancelled,nina being really boring "why was she popular again" eye candy at this point(alongside childishly petty with her interactions with steve that anna would have a way more interesting relationship with him.),yoshimitsu's bad design and eddy getting ruined instead of given closure with christie who missed out for no reason. -jinpachi being forgotten when him being a good mishima with a tragic fate was interesting that 7 could've gone into like jin's thoughts of his great grandfather as 5 didn't touch on that other than setting up 6. -jin being forgotten as i'm convinced heihachi came back in 8(same with m. bison in 6 though tbh think that's way worse as he better die again/stop with the 2 characters already as we don't need the rest of shadaloo in 6.) is so the 3 mishimas can have a final 3 way brawl that we only had in blood vengeance when you could've had that in 7 but just let him get knocked out. -the side characters really was the worst they were handled as at least in 6 they were still mostly handled well(like in anna's ending being the closest we got of the 2 together compared to being completely justified wanting to kill nina for her just childish brat action in 7.)alongside newcomers where outside lidia/leroy/master raven 7 tbh had the worst newcomers of recent fighting games(either felt like knockoff's of others like sagat/inferior rashid,underutilized like claudio who really should've been used to purge the gene from jin or just horrible like lucky chloe that i hope when christie returns it's her pummeling her with eddy) -the dlc/guest not getting any story as geese challenging the mishimas could've been good(having you fight through a town of tekken characters like tekken force to fight geese at his tower.)/noctis being friends with lars could've had some funny enticing scenes considering their worlds. while i'm glad even though it still has problems to heal from 8 fixed a lot of the issues 7 had(having azucena instead of anna in the story aside) part of me wish they had realized it earlier.
Tekken 7 and 8 is the end of Mishima and Devil Gene storylines. But wait Reina is a new Mishima with a Devil Gene, Hiehachi is back and Jin and Kazuya are still alive. Tekken 9 is the end.
Tekken and MK stories have been spiraling in ridiculous directions. Not to mention that the same arc has been going on for almost 10 games now, can’t even move on. Fighting games stories are pretty horrible imo, it’s really not needed.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
For anyone who cares I will be making a video on Tekken 8's story😃 just waiting for the hype to die down as I've seen that game recieve a lot of praise for its story
Alright! I'll be looking forward to it.
If you hated the over hype actionfest of T7 I can't wait to see what youve got for T8's story. 😂
By the end of T8 I just didnt care anymore. The FGC will buy into anything for hype. If a good story represented good sales, Namco wouldnt have Made Soul Calibur 4-5, and T7 being successful unfortunately proved to them that they can put in the lowest effort possible with the lowest budget and rake in gold. As bad as TT2 was gameplay-wise, it had content like mad, all for the single price of admission (a lot of characters, customization, huge soundtrack, lots of stages, extra modes) and it flopped like a beached seal. T7 is proof that fighting game players only want to suffer and that they'll willingly pay for the whip and chains.
@@thaddeusmarcuscheeleyjr.786 Truth be told, I didn't hate T8's story, nor do I think it's irredeemable like T7. However, it was frustrating in some areas because I could see the potential for it to be great. They had a clear beginning and end for the story in mind, but the middle is where they struggled. I will say though a lot of people were dishonest when discussing the story when the game came out listing it as 10/10
@@NotMattMurdockOf course they called it a 10/10 story. Again, the Fighting game community is the only community that will eat hype readily regardless of its ability to be digested. No other genre has a core community that will vehemently ignore or flat out lie about an aspect of a game to such an extent that people outside looking in would be looking at them in confusion. Like if an RPG has a terrible combat system, it doesn't matter how good the characters are, the combat would be talked about to hell and back and it wouldn't be played. Fighting games could literally have terrible graphics and crap characters/stories and as long as the game plays well and has rollback netcode, they'll ignore those things.
T8 certainly wasn't as bad as T7's story but it wasn't exactly good either. Like just because a bullet to the skull doesn't kill you doesn't make it painless. It does start strong but then it quickly dilutes itself and I was certain that would be the case because a lot of fighting games like to show off the start or ending of the game's story early for hype (T8's first trailer is literally the ending of the game) but once you get the game in front of you you realize that the hype is 1/10 of the game and the other 9/10's is a meandering slog of convoluted stories and things that seem like they just threw things together just to get it out the door.
Like All the fights in T8's story mode have the basic fight intros. That's not necessarily bad, but you have to take into account the context and it just seems odd that they would have what basically ammounts to flavor text between people who know each other be a part of it's story (Like Xiaoyu fighting Jin when they're in the forest and saying that a fight can reveal true feelings. In the context of them being there to find the origin of Jin's devil power, what does that line have to do with anything? What does fighting Xiaoyu right now do for the story, while you're technically on the run and your allies are all actively in a ground war to stall for time for you? It just doesn't make any sense. I was doubtful of Tekken re-grounding itself after T5, but after T7, I knew that nothing could get the hypetrain back on track. It's too far gone and the passengers have already paid too much for their spot inside so none of them wants to admit that yes the fighting aspect of the games have gotten better but the games story and character (along with the content imo) have long since been tossed overboard in order to keep the speed high.
You hit the nail on the head with every point. This is exactly how I’ve been feeling since since T6
20:37 Harada being a Heihachi fanboy is to blame. He tries to portray Heihachi as the lesser of 2 evils compared to Kazuya when it's the other way around and also paints Heihachi as tragic and Kazuya as an irredeemable monster when Heihachi is why Kazuya's the way he is. It doesn't excuse Kazuya's actions but his dad chained his granddad under the family dojo, killed his mother for trying to stop Heihachi's world domination plans, abused him and beat a "survival of the fittest" mindset into him then threw him off a cliff and basically said "You're not my son if you don't climb back up."
In retrospect, I do understand what they were trying to do with Heihachi's character in T7, but I can't understand why they chose Heihachi, of all characters, to make sympathetic. He embraced his evil and pursuit of power as much as Kazuya did, and his heel turn still makes no sense. And yeah, while Kazuya's downfall is understandable, it isn't excusable. I feel as though that was the vibe I was giving people with my older videos.
Yeah, Tekken's story started to spiral all over the place ever since Tekken 5, especially in Tekken 6. And yeah, Heihachi does not fit the tragic villain role at all, he's a sadistic villain.
One way i could see Heihachi retcon working if that was catalyst of Heihachi becoming ruthless, evil scumbag we know him for and after Kasumi's betrayal he closed his heart forever after tragedy and believes in absolute power in which is why he throws Kazuya off the cliff to test if he is truly strong.
@@teriosshadow17 Sounds better than what we got.
@@teriosshadow17yeah that makes a lot more sense
In my opinion Akuma should’ve never been a canon Tekken character why ? Because if he was just a normal guest in Tekken 7 that has nothing to do with the main plot of the story then that’s perfectly fine, Harada and the Tekken team could’ve just create a character who has the devil gene who is related to Kazumi to get his revenge on Heihachi and Kazyua that would’ve been a way better story.
Akuma was simply a cash grab to get butts in the seats. They couldn't even be bothered to make a character episode or one cutscene showcasing how he and Kazumi met. Akuma has a bigger impact in the story compared to the characters we've followed for years and then just magically disappears in Tekken 8, and is never mentioned again.
Wonderful video!!!, keep up the good work.
I have a theory about what happened to the story. I think it was changed half way through.
I started thinking about this since I couldn’t wrap my head around why they’d cancel the tournament despite it being important in every other entry including 8. Unless the first draft had the tournament with the final battle being a parallel to tekken 1 and 2 but when they secured the guest characters they thought it be cooler to have Akuma instead.
That’s why 2/3 of the cast were shafted they were supposed to show up in the tournament.
Thats why we have the Jin detour it was a plot point from before the change to justify why Jin wasn’t competing.
Thats why the reporter scenes are so low quality they needed a new framing device to have everything blend together better.
Thats why the satellite shit was there to justify more Akuma scenes.
It’s just a theory but it’s plausible cause no way did they have a guest character in mind for the story from the start.
23:28, on Akuma,
There's a cut line between Kaz and Akuma.
"When I was young, my mother told me that for ages the Hachijo family has been akin to demons. Are you the same?"
It goes some way to explaining it, but it's all bullshit.
I saw someone comment that before, but even still, Akuma's inclusion into the story was a bad move.
A. They failed to make a reasonable explanation for his inclusion within the base story.
B. They didn't even bother giving him or Kazumi character episodes to explain it.
C. Having an iconic figure from your direct competitor's franchise play a bigger part in your story than the characters from your own franchise screams that you don't have faith in your characters. But it's only this bad because of how badly they've been written.
Akuma should've just been written as he is in SF, looking for strong opponents to fight, or have him deem Kazuya too far gone into darkness to train. Chilled Scrub suggested that a Hachijo clan member who was close to Kazumi be controlled by the dark Hado. Anything would've been better than exposing your own plot hole.
Appreciate the comment, by the way! Loved your Tekken analysis series👍🏿 Made me view the story in a different light.
@@NotMattMurdock That's all I ever wanted to do.
@@NotMattMurdockA friend of mine and I always said this: If you're trying to use a Street Fighter character who would fit this plot, if anything, it should've been Gen instead of Akuma.
@@xRevolverServbot why would Gen fit the plot?
Asa person who's VERY hyperfixated on Tekken, its characters and lore, I gotta admit that I dislike the direction the story has gone into, and while Tekken 8's story is a definitive improvement over the last game, I still feel like the other characters are not very well-utilized and are still treated as jokes. Heck! Even Mortal 1 Kombat treated its characters with FAR MORE RESPECT!
They somehow found time to write a scene where Law works for the Devil over a paycheck
The virgin Marshall Law Vs The CHAD Liu Kang
Good work. I knew this took hours I respect the hard work.
Appreciate the comment. Making the script didn't take that long funny enough. Gathering the clips, music and SS took forever tho
I can already tell you didn't like TK8's story. I didn't either and it's so frustrating. Tekken has introduced so many elements that could make a very interesting story. But none of them is ever properly explored. Like I said to a friend, it seems that they're more interested in keeping Tekken' s world record of longest running story than progressing it in a meaningful way. At least the story was, better told this time. But it still lacks substance.
I liked certain moments and concepts in the story mode. Just not the execution
Heihachi Mishima is unalive
Dude! Super sick video! I got into Tekken when Tekken 7 released, and have not played the other entries in the franchise other than Tekken 3 when I was very young like 17+ years ago. Despite that, I'm very interested in the story, because it has some seriously captivating elements to it. You can make pretty much any kind of story work, despite how strange it might be, but what mucks up Tekken is the constant rewrites and retcons. It hurts the ability to take anything seriously because when you set the precedent that the story CAN be changed on a whim, why am I supposed to be invested in these characters and this world if it can change in fundamental and most importantly *Incongruent* ways? Things should change and evolve, and is why Tekken 3's addition to the franchise kicks so much ass.
Tekken 3 changes the story in a big way, but it doesn't really shittily retcon anything. It just *Progresses* the narrative rather than regressing it, altering the audience's previous perception of the events, or staying stagnant.
My biggest problem with Tekken 7 and Tekken 4 is how much they take away from Kazuya. Heihachi is important to start the story, but what branches out from the story is rooted in Kazuya, *NOT* Heihachi. Kazuya falls to the bottom of the cliff and makes the choice (It's a *SHITTY* no good, terrible choice to have to choose. To die or not die, and also be like 5 years old when confronted with such a dilemma, but a choice nonetheless) to make that Deal With The Devil. It's awesome. It drives the story, and not only does his Deal impact his own narrative, it impacts those who are close to him. Kazuya's Deal With The Devil affects those who did not ask for it. I like Tekken's bold move of having Jin inherit Kazuya's Devil Gene because it feels totally natural. A "Monkey's Paw" situation where Kazuya made The Pact, and didn't realise that it would also affect his offspring if he had them. And it makes total sense for The Devil to omit that. Like: "Oh. Sorry. I'm definitely going to infect your kid's mind and body as well. That was part of The Contract, you just didn't ask, so I didn't think it was important to bring up 😈"
When you make it a Bloodline Attribute rather than a choice, it reduces Kazuya and Jin's agency in the matter. Kazuya and by extension Jin suffer from something that isn't really a negative, it's just a *Thing*
Choices. The initial ideas and themes pursued by The Mishima Storyline are about choices. When Tekken 4 asserts it's something Kazuya just *Has* it reduces Heihachi's choice to throw him down the cliff. It reduces Jin's choice to fight against The Devil. It's very important that Jin suffers from being a byproduct of Kazuya's *Choice* It's the same with Kazumi. The story was fine. The story was good. There was no need to change it. Changing it made it worse, not better. I don't understand what they were thinking. Tekken 7's storytelling is very emblematic of high-profile storytelling nowadays and their refusal to innovate or progress forward. Times moves on. That's what's so cool about Tekken 3. They didn't stick to the status quo. They progressed the story 20 years, and in the 20 real life years it's been since Tekken 3's release, in storyline has only progressed what, like 2-3 years? Maybe? I don't even think it's that long. It's depressing. Makes me want to throw up. Anyways, cool vid. 👍
Well said. Thanks for the kind words. Glad you enjoyed the video. A lot of problems with FG stories that came out around the time of T7 is that they just made their story bigger instead of focusing on making a solid story. Tekken needs to calm tf down with the retcons too
@@NotMattMurdock Agree wholeheartedly. Great choice of music in the vid too! Liked the Naruto tracks you used.
@@kylefields3951 Naruto themes are always a vibe. They fit surprisingly well with Tekken
10:47 ok that I’ll kinda defend since the logic was supposed to be flawed.
This plot point was based on the witch trials particularly ones like the trial by water. You float you’re a witch you sink you aren’t (yes they tried pulling the sinkers out but many still died as a result).
Not saying Heihachi isn’t an idiot I’m just saying there’s a sense of logic to this retcon and it isn’t JUST bad writing.
What if instead of Heihachi throwing Kazuya off the cliff to test if he had the Devil Gene, he did to actually kill him due to the bitterness/resentment over Kazumi's betrayal? Something he'd feel Kazuya would be a constant, living reminder of?
That'd still be a retcon but one that could work maybe?
I mean that is basically what happened in the game. I think a better way to go about it is to make Heihachi Walter White. Let his ambition for world domination come into conflict with his love for Kazumi and ultimately he chooses the pursuit of power over his family. That would keep his character in line with the previous games
Hey man, great video. There were a lot of insightful points that I hadn’t considered prior to this analysis. I was wondering if you have ever considered making a video dedicated to your own rewriting of the main tekken narrative? I’d be interested to know what you would change
Unfortunately I don't have the time to make a whole video rewriting Tekkens narrative nor has the thought ever crossed my mind. For T7 in particular there are a few changes I'd make.
1. Keep Heihachis character in line with the previous games. Make it to where he loves Kazumi but also craves world domination and still views his son and father as weak. Essentially Walters relationship with Skyler in the later seasons of BB. It would be a clever subversion of the marketing and the story beat with the narrator to have Heihachi lie about the Mishima household being peaceful prior to the Hachijo clan and be in line with his Lex Luthor/Norman Osborn esc facade.
2. Instead of writing Angel out of the story completely just say that she takes the form of Kazuya's mother (seriously how did they not think of that)
3. Rework Akumas inclusion within the story. Showcase how Kazumi saved him and say that he was training this whole time in order to beat Hei and Kaz. They tried mix his SF personality with the motive they gave him in this game and didn't work.
4. If we're gonna reuse the themes of solitude and betrayal showcase how it affects other characters besides Heihachi. He betrayed Kazuya and Jin so we could've seen how it mentally affected them. Give them Legacy of kain style inner dialogues or spend more screentime on them to showcase how they're affected. Gizo suggested that we see Lars internalize Alisa betraying him in T6 and learning to rebuild trust while Heihachi falls into despair. Adding onto that suggestion, Lars and Noctis friendship in the DLC could've explored this where Lars has to learn to trust Noctis and the FF15 gang.
Those are the changes I'd make to T7 specifically.
Thank you! I've been trying to tell people tekken 7s story is not all that but the tekken fan boys just won't listen tekken 6 was peak
Enjoyed your vid but id have to majorly disagree that Kaguya and Kazumi are cut from the same cloth. Kazumi's devil form debuted very shortly after Kaguys's debut and to claim they randomly had enough money to speed create a character from scratch in a month. Given how Kazumi's design existed for at least 20 years prior (Tekken 90s movie) i dont see how Kazumi is the clone. Their designs arent that similar enough to make that judgement. The Devil Gene clan or "Evil Clan" in general is a common trope in Japanese media. Id agree if Kazumi's design came out a year later or if Kishimoto didnt personally know Harada (He partially designed a Lars costume)
I agree. I genuinely don't know why I made this criticism at the time, probably due to conversations I had with people in my inner circle. I think my main grievance is that the clan came out of nowhere, and that's about it. Live and learn when making critiques, I guess.
@@NotMattMurdock Yeah we all make mistakes. I definitely agree the "Devil Gene is actually a clan trope" is a bit tired.
The game being a complete mess was due to Bamco having no faith in the series after the underperformance of Tag 2(which is the second worst selling game in the series after Tekken 1). If Tag 2 was a financial success. 7 would've had a significantly higher budget and Harad would've been able(as he intended with the early trailers) to tell the story differently with next to no plot holes. Not to mention there would've been no character episodes and perhaps the entire roster would've been included in the main story in a meaningful manner. However, this doesn't change the fact this game is still mediocre. 8 could either be a big budget 7 or actually a worthy conclusion to the series before 9 is a hard reboot.
I understand T7 had a low budget; I never criticized them on that, just the poor storytelling. That T1 to 3 and Tag 1 were able to convey more emotion without dialogue speaks volumes about how downhill Tekken's story has gone. I really have no idea what Harada's intentions with the story even are anymore because he has several tweets that just change the story on a whim (which I am currently making a video about).
I was so mad when they added negan and not akira yuki
I personally wanted Kiryu. My issue with Negan is that he woulda been a better fit for MK and how he's 1 dimensional compared to how he is in TWD. He's one of the redeeming qualities of that show for me
it’s so meaningless that they don’t even mention half of it in the recap in 8 besides lars finding jin and kaz killing heihachi lmaoo
They all just pretend Akuma doesn't exist and both Lars and Lee act like Heihachi is "missing" despite watching the entire fight between the two🙃
@@NotMattMurdock funny ass story man. but 8’s was definitely a step up it was corny but it lowkey may be one of the better fighting game stories it didn’t drag at all
at least with sonic the transitions overblown(tbh mario had a worse transition to 3d as it's aged/while i don't think mk's story's the best by a long shot compared to capcom definitely,not even close to arc system works & especially snk scorpion/sub zero's redemption was the best part of it alongside the intros.)while with tekken it really showed the series problem after 5-
-heihachi had 2 games before to go into his tragic side as while his appearance in 5 after getting blasted into a graveyard by the jack robots exploding/emerging at the intro's end was comically the only canon thing that happened to him they could've gone more into his past of his clashing ideals with jinpachi and illegitimate children in 6 other than a weak twist to tie lars(who until 8 was a boring attempt to make a good mishima after everyone was villains/wasted.)when outside that he just spent it in hiding not attempting to destroy or take over azazel that his ending doesn't bother with(could've had a huge twist that like the series itself knew azazel was a waste of time not tied to the devil's real origin.).
-like the idea of guest characters being tied to/have their own story but akuma's really could've been handled way better(that him in 5 felt like an afterthought with how anticlimactic it felt.)with the possibility it held(go deeper and maybe reveal it was when akuma fought gouken that kazumi revived him to get his 2nd wind on his brother unintentionally leading to ryu/ken's tragedy.)/instead of overall failing to stop kazuya have akuma gather enough energy to revive kazumi ending with him leaving saying his debt is repaid.(maybe have the next character after heihachi be her in 8 showing her about to put a stop to this feud one way or another with how her as a boss in arcade mode was wasted/she should've been revived confronting her son.)
-jin's actions in 6 were made pointless by azazel surviving/the gene still being on him that it made his already horrible actions(that 6 does a bad job at with how he intentionally antagonizes everyone/also hypocritical nina trying to give him sympathy when jin at least is broken compared to nina being a childish petty kid with anna being mature to want to bury the hatchet.)meaningless and not as tragic as intended(with how everyone else doesn't try to help like xiayou not doing anything outside a dream sequence showing her as a one note love interest not realizing how bad he's gotten.).
-while i love heihachi and felt bad for him(compared to kratos who went overboard with wanting revenge but did even in it had regret that he made up for/sasuke who everyone in naruto outside temari and gaara is a horrible person though is sad kazumi is similar to that series biggest asspull villain in shonen jump following after a mary sue with a extremely stupid as infinite in sonic forces motivation) he did horrible things that while kazuya is more evil(with how badly his humanity was shown outside one non canon ending/angel failing to change him that until 8 jun felt like a fool for thinking he could change giving unsettling undertones to her love)heihachi isn't a saint by comparison as he could've changed his actions at any point.
-while not very good the tekken ova(had the best version of nina alongside 4/too bad anna dies in it & lee was a pathetic toadie compared to how awesome he is in the games.) had a way better reason for throwing kazuya off the cliff(doing it to test his strength that while still a dick move is a bit respectful that heihachi knew his son would be strong enough to get back up the cliff,wanted to destroy the devil gene when it ended up in his son and would've killed himself had he failed.) compared to being dumb luck.
-kazumi should've stayed alive with how we saw jinpachi live for so long(in my opinion she should've been the evil spirit that possessed jinpachi in 5 that got changed from the devil gene trying to puppet him to take out the mishimas or had the spirit be created by the clan/a member be the owner of honmaruh.)
-a lot of the side characters got flanderized like lili being a shallow karin rip off(when for it's issues karin had a great glow up in 5 maturing after alpha 3 to helping sakura & the other street fighter characters that i hope returns in 6.)that ruined asuka's potential/just makes you wonder why they didn't revive jun,law just being "dude not funny" at this point with how pathetic his state is(alongside how his son gets treated worse than dan hibiki)just having the tournament cancelled,nina being really boring "why was she popular again" eye candy at this point(alongside childishly petty with her interactions with steve that anna would have a way more interesting relationship with him.),yoshimitsu's bad design and eddy getting ruined instead of given closure with christie who missed out for no reason.
-jinpachi being forgotten when him being a good mishima with a tragic fate was interesting that 7 could've gone into like jin's thoughts of his great grandfather as 5 didn't touch on that other than setting up 6.
-jin being forgotten as i'm convinced heihachi came back in 8(same with m. bison in 6 though tbh think that's way worse as he better die again/stop with the 2 characters already as we don't need the rest of shadaloo in 6.) is so the 3 mishimas can have a final 3 way brawl that we only had in blood vengeance when you could've had that in 7 but just let him get knocked out.
-the side characters really was the worst they were handled as at least in 6 they were still mostly handled well(like in anna's ending being the closest we got of the 2 together compared to being completely justified wanting to kill nina for her just childish brat action in 7.)alongside newcomers where outside lidia/leroy/master raven 7 tbh had the worst newcomers of recent fighting games(either felt like knockoff's of others like sagat/inferior rashid,underutilized like claudio who really should've been used to purge the gene from jin or just horrible like lucky chloe that i hope when christie returns it's her pummeling her with eddy)
-the dlc/guest not getting any story as geese challenging the mishimas could've been good(having you fight through a town of tekken characters like tekken force to fight geese at his tower.)/noctis being friends with lars could've had some funny enticing scenes considering their worlds.
while i'm glad even though it still has problems to heal from 8 fixed a lot of the issues 7 had(having azucena instead of anna in the story aside) part of me wish they had realized it earlier.
Tekken 7 and 8 is the end of Mishima and Devil Gene storylines.
But wait Reina is a new Mishima with a Devil Gene, Hiehachi is back and Jin and Kazuya are still alive.
Tekken 9 is the end.
Mk 11 Kung Jin Kiss Cassie Cage Animation Plssss Bro❤😊
Tekken and MK stories have been spiraling in ridiculous directions. Not to mention that the same arc has been going on for almost 10 games now, can’t even move on. Fighting games stories are pretty horrible imo, it’s really not needed.
Tekken 8 is better than 7 it had a better launch has more content and I've heard the story was a bit better than the story in 7
A water ballon has a better story then tekken 7 but it is an improvement in a lot of ways.
🍿
Hope you enjoyed
@@NotMattMurdock I did this was very well put together
How u got spoilers already lmao
At the time of making the video not everyone knew that Reina was Heihachis daughter
Honestly there are many points of disagreement between our views but I really enjoy your videos dude :D
What points do you disagree with and why do you disagree with them?
Thanks for the comment👍🏿
Get good scrub