When you use destiny dices you have to use enought dices for your roll. Meaning that casting roll and charge roll need 2 destiny dices if you want to control the roll. Even with Kaiross. You should have used your 5 and your 2 to change your 2 into a 5 to make it 10.
@@Firefrog1337 Actually you can. Destiny dice when used become your natural result. Kaiross has a replacement ability that let you change the value based on what is your highest roll. So it do work since your result with destiny dices count has unmodified natural roll.
@@Wolffy. they FAQ'd it so they are the end result, and not a pre-modification. So unfortunately, the two dice used IS the end result, 5+2 = 7 even with master of magic now
Relevant FAQ: Q: If I spend 2 destiny dice to change the casting roll for a Lord of Change, does the ‘Mastery of Magic’ ability change the result of the destiny dice that I used for the casting roll? A: No.
Yesssss, just got back in to the hobby after 12 years or so, and you guys have just got me so into AoS! Always super exciting seeing an interesting battle report of two armies (I personally) haven’t seen much of, plus it’s a nice change to see you guys play a bit tougher! Can’t wait to get my army painted and start gaming!
Honestly, if I want to watch competitive games, I'll watch the livestreams of tournaments. My main issue with your AoS content wasn't the lists, it was the very simple mistakes being made that were a bit *too much* sometimes. A nice mix of tournament lists and fun lists would be a nice thing to see. I do like you guys seem to tailor the matchups a bit more. It's no longer possible to predict the outcome from the video title, so that's a massive plus in my book. I also want to say how awesome it is to have a proper post-game discussion included on youtube. Makes the video feel more complete. Keep up the good work!
1. Kairos should not know 2 spells from the lore. That was a good bit of extra damage getting slung around that side of the table. 2. Did Vito ever invoke the -1 to hit with missiles aura on the general that the coven gives? I feel like Luka mentioned it, but the climed to hit numbers didn't seem to reflect it being taken into account every time. 3. CON-FLA-GRAY-SHUN. Not CON-FLAG-YUR-A-SHUN 4. Plenty of people have pointed out the Destiny Dice issue already. 5. Petrifex...not Petrifax. Nerd-post over.
Hey Luka, you should'nt have taken turn 1 like u said but, u could have avoided losing ur general turn 1 for free. Move ur deathrider close enough to get in the objective (they could probably had cover next to that terrain) and keep the kavalos and the other unit of deathrider outside of 18 of hes bird.
How could Kairos manage to cast bolt of tzeench and tzeenchs firestorm without being a general, or having another wizard in range who knows one of those spells?
Surely @53.49 the flaming chariot could have flown over then bonereapers in combat to do damage to them and still ended up within range to charge the skull catapults.
Mastery of Magic (the Lord of Change ability to raise the lower casting die to the highest) is not a modifier, however, the FAQ mentions that it can't be used on Destiny Dice.
They only changed the Destiny Dice rule so Destiny Dice could not be modified after, and that you would have to pay two destiny dice to impact casting. They are not themselves counted as being modified. They did not change anything regarding the Lord of Changes Mastery of Magic rule or clarify Kairos' rule, save for clarifying that you are not allowed to use mastery of magic with destiny dice. From the errata: "In addition, any rolls that have been replaced count as unmodified rolls and cannot be rerolled. They also cannot be modified..." And from the rule book commentary: Q: Some abilities allow you to either pick, change or replace a dice roll with the roll of your choice. Does this happen before or after any re-rolls or modifiers? A: Unless noted otherwise in the ability, it happens before any re-rolls or modifiers are applied. So if Vito would have used the correct mechanics with destiny dice, they would have counted as unmodified. Same with Mastery of Magic in general.
I really like Tzeetch’s lore and army mechanics (Destiny dice, agendas) even if I’m not a huge fan of the crazy aesthetic they chose for some of his units (flamers, horrors). Still if I ever played a Chaos army in AoS it would be them... also in 40k I like shooty armies.
Why don't you make a narrative game like control a golem/artefact/what ever by most powerful magic army : for example Disciple of Tzeentch 's Vito magic army VERSUS a City of Sigmar-Hallowhearth'Matt army. Who will be the real king of magic Tzeentch'ost or Hallowhearth city ?
I love the new batreps and style of video, however while I appreciate the breakdown of the armies, is there a way to streamline this a little? 17 min before the first turn begins can be a little rough...
Really enjoyed seeing some tougher lists played. Not saying I don't enjoy games with the softer/more narrative armies but it's good to see the gloves come some of the way off, more please.
Hey, I now you guys are a lot more experienced than I am at this game, so here's my Ossiarch bonereaper list, I would very much like advice on how to better optimize it Petrifax elite Heros: Leige Kavolos Soulmason Battleline: 40x Mortek guard 30x Mortek guard Other troops: 3x Necropolis Stalkers Behemoth: Gothizzar Harvister Artillery: Mortek Crawler Mortek crawler
Fernly52 I’m not sure where you’re getting your info, but all the soul linked spells work the same. All of them provide a -1 to casting rolls. In the bonetithe shrieker warscroll you can find this in the second paragraph for the soul linked rule. For some reason the app does not include that second paragraph in its warscroll but I can assure that it appears in any other place the warscroll is found.
Doesn’t the bonereaper endless spell disappear after the hero gets slain? Really liked both of the lists tho. I think the flamer list is a good candidate for a king of the hill competition. I’m a FEC player myself and tzeentch is brutal to play against as them.
Interesting BR. Damn you'd think with positioning being so sodding important for this scenario and him already making a several blunders on one objective he would be more careful on the other one. Those floops went a long way towards hurting his game.
You could of put your whole army to one side if you took the battallion that allows units to just teleport wherever they need to. You can move 2 units a turn. Not to mention how much of a pain it is for your opponent to respond to if you key units just disappear to hold objective or to kill your opponents key units.
FOR NAGASH'S SAKE!!! as an ossiarch bonereaper player i want to see a battle report that does NOT use petrifax elite. try Crematorians or even Null Myraid please TRY something new
The match-up was already strongly polarized by the new tzeentch BT. If he was running anything other than petriflex, the game would be over after 2 shooting phase...
You were concerned in the beginning about playing "hard" lists. I personally would like to see you guys play with play with tournament level lists more often.
do love your videos and the reps you do. did notice some DD mistakes but thats ok we all make them. (would love to come play and meet you guys when i come over to see family in CA next year. would just like to say though i love your battlemaps and the terrain you put on them but that lava map is awful :(
So AoS isn’t my thing, but Holy Goddess that beautiful board caught my attention and made me watch this video!! Edit: and it’s *exactly* that double turn nonsense that I don’t like Aos.
Max no of mortek guards in a unit is not 30 - it should be 40. Wonder if you’ve paid the full 440 for these guys by mistake. Interesting list, but I don’t think there’s enough heroes here for competitive play. You’ll need more rdp.
(Warhammer old world coming sometime..)Can't wait for Bretonnia to come back so, I can Charge into battle knowing I'm Chivalrous and honorable. For the New(Old) Lady!! I LOVE Bretonnia.. that faction reminds me of "monty python and the holy grail" 🤣 FOR THE LADY!! Great Video Take Care Be Safe Stay Safe
Why didn’t he play null myrain they are so incredibly good at screwing over magic users and probably would have been more effective and not the pet reflex elite
Nice to see a different bonereapers list. It's still petrifex which is slightly frustrating but damn, two catapults is awesome looking on the board I play bonereapers myself and the other legions are all good so would be nice to see maybe an endless spell heavy null myriad, or even several hordes of mortek guard and harvesters in crematorians
Pretty interesting match. Those Catapults are as nasty as I have heard and I have noticed that this is a trend: many of the ranged that is in this edition is very powerful. The ballista of the SCE comes to mind as well. And I agree Luka: not a fan of the double turn mechanic. :)
"you won because luck, look here's how I'd have beaten you if luck hadnt stopped my masterful skilled plan" yeah it was a bit cringe to watch him go through it
@@petethehawk5186 I played DoK because no one at MWG played them. Ive been playing Slaanesh since 6th edition and its my Favorite chaos god so its only natural that i gravitate to them. They also got the nerf bat which is fantastic. DoT was thrust upon me by Matt to cover as no one else wanted to cover it. Its all perception. I think its safe to say based on past comments from other videos you have made you dont like me. Which is cool hommie. Different strokes for different folks. I do appreciate you watching the channel though so happy wargaming and all the best. :)
@@vitovarano5171 Ignore the haters, Tzeentch is not OP. Bonereapers are weak against shooting. Flamers are strong no doubt, its the cult I usually run myself. But they do lack body count and are not that sturdy as we saw in the Batrep when the Bonereapers closed the gap.
flamers are pretty cool though. and considering how close this game was, they're no more op than a top notch DoK, Big W or Ossiarch list. its also circumstantial on the objective game, as in this instance, it being restricted to heroes and batteline gave this Ossiarch list a tougher time.
@@Waywardpaladin cancon was prior faq. Where changehost and destiny dice were able to brutalise anyone turn 1. Sheffield Slaughter (most recent tournament) had Tzeentch come 7th. With 2 Petrifex elite finishing higher. Alongside Fyreslayers, Big Waaagh, Cities and Idoneth. Yes, Tzeentch is Strong. But so are plenty of other armies. Their main Tournament op tactic has been nerfed.
When you use destiny dices you have to use enought dices for your roll. Meaning that casting roll and charge roll need 2 destiny dices if you want to control the roll. Even with Kaiross. You should have used your 5 and your 2 to change your 2 into a 5 to make it 10.
You can't modify destiny dice, so a 5 and 2 stays a 5 and a 2. Kairos and LoC can't use the ability on those dice.
@@Firefrog1337 Actually you can. Destiny dice when used become your natural result. Kaiross has a replacement ability that let you change the value based on what is your highest roll. So it do work since your result with destiny dices count has unmodified natural roll.
@@Wolffy. they FAQ'd it so they are the end result, and not a pre-modification. So unfortunately, the two dice used IS the end result, 5+2 = 7 even with master of magic now
Relevant FAQ:
Q: If I spend 2 destiny dice to change the casting roll for a Lord
of Change, does the ‘Mastery of Magic’ ability change the result
of the destiny dice that I used for the casting roll?
A: No.
Your all wrong. He can roll 1 dice, and use 1 destiny dice for casting. Then turn the highest dice into the total. It was played correctly.
Yesssss, just got back in to the hobby after 12 years or so, and you guys have just got me so into AoS! Always super exciting seeing an interesting battle report of two armies (I personally) haven’t seen much of, plus it’s a nice change to see you guys play a bit tougher! Can’t wait to get my army painted and start gaming!
51:00 no chaos spawn?
finally a age of sigmar battle report with some big guys in! briliant!
Hey Luka, your endless spell should have disappeared when the guy who cast it died. At leas that's what you said at the beginning 😁
IT's true!
Honestly, if I want to watch competitive games, I'll watch the livestreams of tournaments. My main issue with your AoS content wasn't the lists, it was the very simple mistakes being made that were a bit *too much* sometimes. A nice mix of tournament lists and fun lists would be a nice thing to see.
I do like you guys seem to tailor the matchups a bit more. It's no longer possible to predict the outcome from the video title, so that's a massive plus in my book.
I also want to say how awesome it is to have a proper post-game discussion included on youtube. Makes the video feel more complete.
Keep up the good work!
Would love to watch a rematch.
I REALLY like the new bat rep format. I have been out of AoS for a bit... This help as a refresher...
Thank you.
It would be nice to see some more competitive mayches make it a seris
1. Kairos should not know 2 spells from the lore. That was a good bit of extra damage getting slung around that side of the table.
2. Did Vito ever invoke the -1 to hit with missiles aura on the general that the coven gives? I feel like Luka mentioned it, but the climed to hit numbers didn't seem to reflect it being taken into account every time.
3. CON-FLA-GRAY-SHUN. Not CON-FLAG-YUR-A-SHUN
4. Plenty of people have pointed out the Destiny Dice issue already.
5. Petrifex...not Petrifax.
Nerd-post over.
Love the paint job on your Tzeentch, Vito. A few more closer up shots would be great. Love the report guys, keep up the great work.
Unfortunately I can't take credit for those peices as they weren't painted by me. However I can try and get some closer shots next time!
Love the new video format (actually made me resub to the vault) But I am kind of missing the various guests you normally play against.
Correct me if i am wrong but i believe that soulbound endless spell should have been removed when the caster that it was bound to was slain?
Hey Luka, you should'nt have taken turn 1 like u said but, u could have avoided losing ur general turn 1 for free. Move ur deathrider close enough to get in the objective (they could probably had cover next to that terrain) and keep the kavalos and the other unit of deathrider outside of 18 of hes bird.
you could have purchased 40 mortek instead of 30 and the second spell
I only have 30 with swords! :(
@@lukapavicevic335 ah! makes sense now :)
Luca in your theoretical last turn you forgot that the spell goes away since the walking toilet wizard died.
Like the new format, I think some quiet music in the background while you are doing your lists would be nice. I noticed a bit of static / white noise
How could Kairos manage to cast bolt of tzeench and tzeenchs firestorm without being a general, or having another wizard in range who knows one of those spells?
Surely @53.49 the flaming chariot could have flown over then bonereapers in combat to do damage to them and still ended up within range to charge the skull catapults.
Also, agenda first round isn't complete as it needs 2 unmod 9 in a row, and GW faq changing dice ability on kairos is mod now sadly
I couldn't find that in the FAQ or erata. I do not believe this is the case, but I don't think it was clarified.
This game was unfortunately recorded before the DoT faq/errata came out!
@@lukapavicevic335 it's also far from clear if the mastery of magic rule prevents the completion of the agenda.
Mastery of Magic (the Lord of Change ability to raise the lower casting die to the highest) is not a modifier, however, the FAQ mentions that it can't be used on Destiny Dice.
They only changed the Destiny Dice rule so Destiny Dice could not be modified after, and that you would have to pay two destiny dice to impact casting. They are not themselves counted as being modified. They did not change anything regarding the Lord of Changes Mastery of Magic rule or clarify Kairos' rule, save for clarifying that you are not allowed to use mastery of magic with destiny dice.
From the errata:
"In addition, any rolls that have been replaced count as unmodified rolls and cannot be rerolled. They also cannot be modified..."
And from the rule book commentary:
Q: Some abilities allow you to either pick, change or replace a
dice roll with the roll of your choice. Does this happen before or
after any re-rolls or modifiers?
A: Unless noted otherwise in the ability, it happens
before any re-rolls or modifiers are applied.
So if Vito would have used the correct mechanics with destiny dice, they would have counted as unmodified. Same with Mastery of Magic in general.
I really like Tzeetch’s lore and army mechanics (Destiny dice, agendas) even if I’m not a huge fan of the crazy aesthetic they chose for some of his units (flamers, horrors). Still if I ever played a Chaos army in AoS it would be them... also in 40k I like shooty armies.
I love the horrors, but the flamer models are hot trash.
Why don't you make a narrative game like control a golem/artefact/what ever by most powerful magic army :
for example Disciple of Tzeentch 's Vito magic army VERSUS a City of Sigmar-Hallowhearth'Matt army. Who will be the real king of magic Tzeentch'ost or Hallowhearth city ?
Vito and Luka! you guys have an impressive report here! i approve of this matchup!
I love the new batreps and style of video, however while I appreciate the breakdown of the armies, is there a way to streamline this a little? 17 min before the first turn begins can be a little rough...
Really enjoyed seeing some tougher lists played. Not saying I don't enjoy games with the softer/more narrative armies but it's good to see the gloves come some of the way off, more please.
No Hedonites of OPness? Who are you, and what have you done to Vito?
I've seen enough, take my subscription
You guys said this was in the realm of metal, but didn't use the realmscape or anything related to the realm you battled in?
Hey, I now you guys are a lot more experienced than I am at this game, so here's my Ossiarch bonereaper list, I would very much like advice on how to better optimize it
Petrifax elite
Heros:
Leige Kavolos
Soulmason
Battleline:
40x Mortek guard
30x Mortek guard
Other troops:
3x Necropolis Stalkers
Behemoth:
Gothizzar Harvister
Artillery:
Mortek Crawler
Mortek crawler
I think Vito and Dave could join System of a down and it wouldn't look strange
wow where did you get the chaos fortress?!
Vito didn’t read the Tzeentch FAQ did he?
Missed -1 to hit on shooting
Omg what a game! You two always have an exciting game 👍
I found it lacking on both of your statements lol. Oh well
@@petethehawk5186 wow do you not like them two then?
I thought it was a pretty good battle rep
Shoryuukenn it was a poor OB list against a strong Tzeentch list so...predictable. Not taking a harvester is just kinda silly.
the bone tithe shrieker doesnt have the minus one to cast that the other soul link spells do
Fernly52 I’m not sure where you’re getting your info, but all the soul linked spells work the same. All of them provide a -1 to casting rolls. In the bonetithe shrieker warscroll you can find this in the second paragraph for the soul linked rule. For some reason the app does not include that second paragraph in its warscroll but I can assure that it appears in any other place the warscroll is found.
@@calebself3354 yeah that would be where. You'd think the official GW app for the game would have the correct info for something like that
Doesn’t the bonereaper endless spell disappear after the hero gets slain? Really liked both of the lists tho. I think the flamer list is a good candidate for a king of the hill competition. I’m a FEC player myself and tzeentch is brutal to play against as them.
Interesting BR.
Damn you'd think with positioning being so sodding important for this scenario and him already making a several blunders on one objective he would be more careful on the other one. Those floops went a long way towards hurting his game.
you didn't remove the endless spell when the wizard was killed.
So Bonereapers = Tomb Kings? I don’t follow AoS much and had not yet seen them played.
You could of put your whole army to one side if you took the battallion that allows units to just teleport wherever they need to. You can move 2 units a turn. Not to mention how much of a pain it is for your opponent to respond to if you key units just disappear to hold objective or to kill your opponents key units.
Changehost has been errataed to be one unit a turn in the FAQ.
@@Raamat7 still good even if reduced to 1 unit a turn you just got make if they need support the support unit has the speed to get there.
FOR NAGASH'S SAKE!!!
as an ossiarch bonereaper player i want to see a battle report that does NOT use petrifax elite. try Crematorians or even Null Myraid
please TRY something new
Are they even painted as the petrifex? I'm unfamiliar with their paint scheme but I thought they were all fossilized so expected more of a stone look.
This is what happens, GW makes something like Petrifex so there’s literally no other reason to use anything else if your playing competitively.
The match-up was already strongly polarized by the new tzeentch BT. If he was running anything other than petriflex, the game would be over after 2 shooting phase...
And to be fair, they mentioned that this was more of a power game so it only makes sense. I am sure they'll try different things in other BatReps.
And lose faster?
Loved the match! My two fav armies 😁✌🏻🔥! Can't wait for a rematch
You were concerned in the beginning about playing "hard" lists. I personally would like to see you guys play with play with tournament level lists more often.
If I want to watch anything I just want more grand order of death in general
D*****n it!!! Now I want a Tzeentch flaming army too.....
Shouldn't have Vito rolled for moral at the end of phase 1 or did I just missed it?
He used destiny dice
You can only choose one spell of the lore for your casters. So no 2 lore spells for kairos
he also knows the spells of all tzeentch wizards within 18 of him, was it possibly that rule in use?
@@darrynlee7370 that's What i thought but the two Heralds were on the other side of the board
@@darrynlee7370 Not all spells, just their warscroll spells, which is a very big distinction.
29:21 I agree, double turn is NOT the best MECHANIC for a GAME :p
Rematch would be nice!
do love your videos and the reps you do. did notice some DD mistakes but thats ok we all make them. (would love to come play and meet you guys when i come over to see family in CA next year. would just like to say though i love your battlemaps and the terrain you put on them but that lava map is awful :(
I know you said this is a "gloves off" game. But... the Petrifex Elite again? 😑
So AoS isn’t my thing, but Holy Goddess that beautiful board caught my attention and made me watch this video!!
Edit: and it’s *exactly* that double turn nonsense that I don’t like Aos.
I think its rude to concede and then continue to go with your turn, not allowing your opponent to finish their turn.
Definitely want to see luka come back with a stronger list great game guys
Max no of mortek guards in a unit is not 30 - it should be 40. Wonder if you’ve paid the full 440 for these guys by mistake.
Interesting list, but I don’t think there’s enough heroes here for competitive play. You’ll need more rdp.
(Warhammer old world coming sometime..)Can't wait for Bretonnia to come back so, I can Charge into battle knowing I'm Chivalrous and honorable. For the New(Old) Lady!!
I LOVE Bretonnia.. that faction reminds me of "monty python and the holy grail"
🤣
FOR THE LADY!!
Great Video
Take Care
Be Safe
Stay Safe
Love the intro story
Battle of the try-hards lists!
Says "No spoilers" then gives a spoiler. :-D
Why didn’t he play null myrain they are so incredibly good at screwing over magic users and probably would have been more effective and not the pet reflex elite
I want that terrian
Lol everyone is really running Petrifex Elite.
I wouldn't mind seeing a competitive meta match soon like Tau vs tyranids
Nice to see a different bonereapers list. It's still petrifex which is slightly frustrating but damn, two catapults is awesome looking on the board
I play bonereapers myself and the other legions are all good so would be nice to see maybe an endless spell heavy null myriad, or even several hordes of mortek guard and harvesters in crematorians
Stop hating on the Double turn, it's a core mechanic of the game.
NEVER
It's a terrible core mechanic. When every battle report hinges on a single dice roll that likely determined the winner, it's a lame mechanic.
Pretty interesting match. Those Catapults are as nasty as I have heard and I have noticed that this is a trend: many of the ranged that is in this edition is very powerful. The ballista of the SCE comes to mind as well. And I agree Luka: not a fan of the double turn mechanic. :)
The "what if" phase was like seeing a grumpy 3yo.
"you won because luck, look here's how I'd have beaten you if luck hadnt stopped my masterful skilled plan" yeah it was a bit cringe to watch him go through it
At least Vito isn’t playing slaanesh this time....
Same difference. He only seems to like to play OP stuff
@@petethehawk5186 yep
@@petethehawk5186 I played DoK because no one at MWG played them. Ive been playing Slaanesh since 6th edition and its my Favorite chaos god so its only natural that i gravitate to them. They also got the nerf bat which is fantastic. DoT was thrust upon me by Matt to cover as no one else wanted to cover it. Its all perception. I think its safe to say based on past comments from other videos you have made you dont like me. Which is cool hommie. Different strokes for different folks. I do appreciate you watching the channel though so happy wargaming and all the best. :)
@@vitovarano5171 Ignore the haters, Tzeentch is not OP. Bonereapers are weak against shooting. Flamers are strong no doubt, its the cult I usually run myself. But they do lack body count and are not that sturdy as we saw in the Batrep when the Bonereapers closed the gap.
A Cast need 2 destiny Dice not 1
Could have been filmed prior to the FAQ I suppose.
@@daemonnexusknight that's in the battletome.
@@adamjones5363 Ah, gotcha. I assumed that the wording was different in the Battletome per the FAQ, but I suppose it was just a clarification. Thanks!
Go Tzeentch. Chaos is best
I think he didn't take off the gloves, you lost in 2 shooting phases. Bring nagas here or black at least.
Luka tryhard :D ...post-gameshow hes talking and not stopping...pls man :D
Do us all a favor and put Tzeentch back on the shelf until they get nerfed.
flamers are pretty cool though. and considering how close this game was, they're no more op than a top notch DoK, Big W or Ossiarch list. its also circumstantial on the objective game, as in this instance, it being restricted to heroes and batteline gave this Ossiarch list a tougher time.
+1
They alrdy got nerfed into non-existence once before, not gonna happen again
@@wagnerisawsome Cancon had what... 4 of them in the top ranks? Ossiarchs' best showing was #12?
@@Waywardpaladin cancon was prior faq. Where changehost and destiny dice were able to brutalise anyone turn 1.
Sheffield Slaughter (most recent tournament) had Tzeentch come 7th. With 2 Petrifex elite finishing higher.
Alongside Fyreslayers, Big Waaagh, Cities and Idoneth.
Yes, Tzeentch is Strong. But so are plenty of other armies. Their main Tournament op tactic has been nerfed.
lol
flamer spam! uff i fear to see how it ends..
Answer...predictably
That was dumb
More Beastclaw raiders battleraps please!!!!!