Check out the main channel for in depth videos- / fdsignifire Check out the Patreon to support and to see full lives- www.patreon.co.... Follow on Twitter and IG @fdsignifier
centrist philosophy = i dont care how many people you starve to death , enslave and send to work camps to die, as long as i dont have to see it with my own eyes and as long as i am never inconvenienced in my pursuit of wealth, i do not care.
I think this is bad shorthand but at times not wrong. You realize what the left is fighting for now in a few decades will be a centrist stance then where people are comfortable and want to maintain the status quo. Its not an agenda based platform rather I simply dont want to pay the cost to move from here the nuance is move from here can be literally anywhere in the next couple of years or decades.
I think the problem is most "centrists" don't even think it all that much. I've met some people who call themselves centrist, who clearly would be more lefty if the got a bit more into politics. It's all about being educated properly
I think that is only true if you take the worst case most bad faith strawman interpretation of the idea of being centrist. its more along the lines of we live with millions of people and the vast majority of them want what is best for people. We disagree on what we think is best for people, sometimes to the point that we see the other side as actively trying to hurt us when that is in reality almost never the case. The centrist idea is that because there are millions of people with these differing ideas we need to allow some things from one group, some things from other groups and some things that are a compromise between all of the groups. That system of thinking may or may not be good based on your philosophy but that is a good faith explanation of the idea.
People take this approach with any philosophy that challenges their world view and makes them uncomfortable. Veganism is a good example of this. I think there's another level beyond just not wanting to be uncomfortable though. If I tell people I'm a vegan people get super weird about it. Because when you make people aware of a world view in which doing _blank_ is unethical and they are active in doing that thing they will feel attacked, even if that philosophy is purely personal and you do not actively engage people about it. It's this weird notion that if ____ world view exists, which stipulates that _____ is bad, then that means I'm bad and I don't like being told I'm bad. No one actually called you bad though, the entire process was internalized.
Centrists are usually conservatives embarrassed about being conservatives, or people who are too lazy to take the steps needed to understand politics. The latter is just as inexcusable BUT I can at least understand that it’s hard to take those first big steps. Politics and social issues are super complicated. That being said, We in this comment section have all done it. Liberals have done it. Libertarians have done it. Hell, fascists have done it. It’s not impossible so there’s no excuse for choosing centrism. As for the self-hating conservatives, lol if I can tell people I’m a communist in a country where fascism is more acceptable, than you can admit your shit philosophy too.
I have strong beliefs, political and other. I only use that tactic to deflect a dialogue with unhinged fanatics that I really don’t want to converse with regarding matters they are very emotional about, and the worse part is these types of people often try to initiate this conversation. Legit I am not going to have a worth while discussion about politics with someone that swears by hypnosis.
You mean left-center right, and just normal right? Republicans aren't fascist, they are conservative. Democrats aren't right wing, they are either left, (DEMSOC) center left, (SOCDEM or progressive) Center, (Modern Liberals and third way) or Center right. (Moderates, Classical liberals, neoliberals, libertarians, and centrists)
I don't think I truly understood centrism until I read about Pyrrhonism. In ancient Greece, the Pyrrhonists wanted to hear out both sides and treat every argument as equally frivolous not to come to a conclusion or even a compromise, but to extend the debate indefinitely. That way, they need never take a side, and they can continue to exist comfortably thinking they are the real enlightened ones. Whether centrists realize it or not, that is their goal. Not enlightenment, not balance, not even 50/50 compromise, but total political and philosophical inertia.
@@jnyerere nah. It just means they believe in compromise. A big issue with intellectualizing very simple topics is that you often miss the larger, more accurate, and more simplistic answer right in front of you.
Yes to all of this. Here in the UK the Liberal Democrats are a political party which are like the Conservatives only without power they use the same rhetoric as the Conservatives only politely, and see themselves as centrists but in reality are a splinter group.
7:57 As someone born and raised in Aoteroa New Zealand, can confirm that the Democrat's policies are more right wing than our main centre-right party called National. National wants tax cuts and to weaken unions and things like that, but no way in hell would any National politician even think of suggesting that national healthcare is bad. Even on abortion, which is more of a split issue, in 2020 our government voted to remove abortion from the Crimes Act (making it fully legal to get an abortion) and it would be political suicide for a party to suggest adding it again. All this to say that when what is considered "centre" is so dependent on the political context of a particular nation, then being a centrist can absolutely mean being a conservative.
Very well said. As a fellow Kiwi I hope National doesn't get in next time and stalls our progress for a few years, I feel like we are at a tipping point where we could start seeing some real positive change if we get a more progressive government.
National wouldn't come out and say "let's get rid of public healthcare". They just starve it, like all our infrastructure, and let the rich use their tax cuts to pay for healthcare the rest of us can't afford.
@@itcouldbelupus2842 I'm from Italy and some of the rethoric of the Republicans is similar to that of the far right that we have here too. Although even if they were to win the elections, most of the things that they would want to do, would be considered un-Constitutional and so would not happen.
With all due respect, this take lacks perspective. I compared the National Party with the Democratic Party, and the Democrats are overall most definitely _not_ to the right of them. Even with healthcare, the main difference is that the Democrats have been pushing to implement universal healthcare through public option rather than single-payer. They also have to deal with the Republican Party, who has increasingly moved to the far right.
@@Mr_DPZ Thanks for your reply! I see where you're coming from, and I don't disagree with you, but I think you're missing my main point-- that the political contexts across NZ and the US are just so different, and what is considered a "debate" in American is almost a given here. National is definitely right wing, that's not what I'm arguing. My point is more that what is considered by the mainstream to be right wing is different. If we want to get technical, NZ's Overton Window is further left than the US's. I absolutely agree that this is in large part because of Republican efforts to move further and further right. Something that I do want to clarify as well, because I think it's important context, is that the while the US has a two party system, NZ has mixed member proportional (MMP). This means that the diversity of left wing opinions within the Democrats is larger than in our big left wing party, Labour. If a politician/voter is more right wing, they will go to another party like National, Act, or NZ First. If they are more left wing, they'll go to the Greens, Te Paati Māori, or The Oppurtunies Party. Who these parties are isn't really important here. My point is more that progressives are clumped into the same party as liberals, and often have to compromise in a lot areas in order to appeal to the most people, and therefore appear more conservative than many individual politicians may be. Hope this makes sense!
I think the phrase "you are what you cosign" is apt to describe centrism. If you believe in upholding a status quo which benefits an oppressive class because it works for you, you're siding with the oppressors.
Even if you make the argument that you as a centrist aren't "actively" hurting the vulnerable, your inactions make you complicit. As the saying goes: the world is not being destroid by evil people but rather those with the power to do something about it and choose to not bother. You have to be rather privileged in life to be a "centrist". Someone born and living poor can't afford to compromise since they fighting for their lives each damn day. They either remove left or right, depending on what they might think is the issue causing them to struggle
yes, but ackshually, they are actively siding with oppressors, because they are. they just dont see it as oppression. they see it more like a "law of the jungle" thing. "capitalism is the best system humanity is able to produce, it's the better evil"-type beat.
@@workt42 You're right, I forgot that every time a privileged centrist decides to stop being a right wing tool and start being a decent human being with common sense, they put their physical wellbeing at great direct risk. Thanks for educating me in the matter.
@@workt42 alright broh, so you just choose to complete ignore the part where ei explicitly state the connection between centrism,privilege and the status quo. Apathy and centrism are completely different things, the fact you use both interchangeable say everything I need to know about your line of thought. In fact, I made the connection between centrism and status quo at the very beginning precisely to separate the vulnerable who's too preoccupied with day to day survival or is simply faded by sal of life injustice from the privilege "centrist", the centrist I just defined before. If you're not part of a vulnerable population (working class, POC, LGBTQ, whatever else...) but you are politically apathetic, then it doesn't comes from a place of defeatness, if that is even a word but a genuine place of "I just don't give a fuck about others", and the fact that you intentionally choose apathy and centrism as the same thing, makes me believe you lean toward the later.
@Mohlakala Tleane Probably a lot more to do with structural disadvantages due to the electoral college and Gerrymandering … but I agree this comment and video fall into the same dumb “they are bad we are good” psychologizing they seem to think they’re beyond.
or there just people who are invested in the current status Quo and value the current system over pushing it left or right. All of the concepts were pushing for today will later on be some centrist position in the future. Its not an issue of policy or agenda but the cost and consequence to move society from where it is today.
They aren’t so quiet anymore. The rights constant culture war fights are exposing them online for where they really stand on social issues and whew we got a lot more conservatives than we thought(at least socially).
@@redrkstone they're the most blind followers of all, centrists define themselves by being in the middle of two positions so they're completely dependent on either side to define those positions.
@@dadbodenvy4247 no you have been blinded by you ideology. Centrists look for solutions that work irrespective of political ideology. It’s solving a problems and making society better, not about pushing one ideology or agenda.
There’s two flavors of self-identified centrist I’ve encountered: 1. Conservatives that have enough decency to be embarrassed by the vast majority of their political bedfellows 2. People who aren’t engaged with the information beyond article headlines and Facebook posts/memes My parents are a bit of both. A co-worker is strictly in category 2 and I have to inform her some of the “scary stuff” she’s heard about are easily debunked conspiracy theories.
@@deeznauts6543 I somewhat agree with that mostly cuz I think it is rather difficult to represent your whole world view with one single label, as well as I have some thoughts who aren't strictly leftist. But even then for simplicity sake I would consider myself a leftist. I genuinely can't think of a single centrist or right wing idea I agree with.
@@danjo2080 I'd add Synema to them, Corporate Democratics are just Republicans in disguise. Plus, the Republican want to live in a past that they personally do not know at all. Democrats, at least the reasonable ones, would simply like to live in the present and try to aim towards the future where it is possible.
I’m white and grew up very conservative, and as I was becoming more liberal I considered myself a moderate because I was coping with the confusion of changing ideology, but I see people wanting to stay right there to defend the status quo. I don’t get that. It was a stepping stone for me and I’ve continued to go further left. I think it’s very hypocritical to be centrist, or at least ignorant, or at worst covert conservatives and enabling the worst politically. So what you’re saying makes sense to me from my experience, the more privilege the more willing you might be to ignore the reality of the status quo. Bc the status quo is oppression for most people
to me it was always because of being a product of my enviroment. There's just one point when you know stuff and you realize the real reason people are conservative, and I neither benefit nor find any comfort in mantaining hieracrchies.
@@gars129 my dad is conservative while the rest of his 7 brother and sisters are very liberal. To make a long story short, he was severely abused and had dyslexia and still became and Engieer In his view point, “if I can do it, then anyone can” mentality.Funny enough, my dad is become more liberal as he gets older as he is retired and volunteers at a soup kitchen/donation store and see what people go through. So to be honest, if you go through shit like that I can understand that perspective people have tbh. I always vote Democrat but I’m just rarely happy with the person I’m voting for.
Thats idiotic and naive. The status quo isnt oppressive to MOST people. Its that MOST people havent take the steps necessary to earn what they want, either from effort, talent, luck, etc. Look, somethings the status quo is bad on. I can agree to that. But not everything. And a lot of things, its neither, but the fact that society as a whole isnt "ready" to change on. And you cant expect people to be persuaded to move along a path you might prefer if you ignore their reservations completely. Its one thing to tell people that attacking people due to skin tone is bad and will be addressed harshly. Its another to say that they accept that what was "private spaces" are not so anymore, or that words and terms are just suddently going to change meaning.
@@shadowmancer99You are exactly the kind of "centrist" that is actually a conservative or more accurately a fascist PoS. You are repeating talking points fascists like Cucker Tarlson or Ben Shabibo use about how individuals are completely responsible for their life as if the material conditions that surround someone were irrelevant. Somehow you managed to watch the video and not see yourself in the people being described...smh
Not True. Conservatism hates minority groups more so than the majority. As centrism is more aligned to conservatism - effectively, they perpetuate the same shit.
America is so right leaning that "centrists" are on the right spectrum too. But even without that, centrism enables conservatism by not desiring change. The status quo is inherently conservative. Progress is inherently anti-status quo.
or there just people who are invested in the current status Quo and value the current system over pushing it left or right. All of the concepts were pushing for today will later on be some centrist position in the future. Its not an issue of policy or agenda but the cost and consequence to move society from where it is today.
Every centrist I've met is a right-leaner who is afraid to be associated with all the negative aspects of that group. They may not be actively bigoted, but they certainly don't have a huge problem being adjacent to bigots.
Lol right? They are literally Republicans from 20+ years ago. As their party gets more and more right wing they just feel they are now at the center as if that is how things work.
Yep.. you're right except for one guy I know. Closing he's centrist, but sounds way more like a liberal except he likes guns lol. Even believes in gun control though. He's a good dude
@@mrcojocaru Tell him that once you go far enough left, you get your guns back. Maybe quote what Marx said about arming the proletariat. With any luck, he might even end up eventually becoming an actual leftist and not a lib.
@@mrcojocaru I'm confused abt the last bit, bc communists/socialists r pro gun. The idea of guns being a tool to fight against the government/Capitalists come from socialists/communists. Socialism is came abt the same time the US was established, it was simply more so a utopia than the scientific theory we get from Marx and Engels, which later takes precedent over the utopian ideas.
"Centrist" is just a cute and pc way of calling someone a "Left Wing Republican." To me the people who participated in the 2020 primaries to pick Joe Biden as THEIR Dem nominee are Conservatives and will always be seen as such.
i dont get black conservatives either🤦🏾♂️why would u as a black person wanna KEEP THINGS THE WAY THEYVE ALWAYS BEEN🤦🏾♂️imo it will take an extremist black group to FINALLY get some change🤷🏾♂️💯🤞🏾
They're usually victims of culture war bs so they fall on the conservative side of arguments about gun control, LGBT issues, vaccines, or worst of all, race. They're the type that believe black people should pull up their pants and act right to advance in society.
It’s important for all of us to acknowledge any privileges we have; and to not act like we achieved everything by ourselves. Because that’s being a conservative.
The way I see it “centrist” are just more socially acceptable conservatives, if that makes sense. It’s just a way to keep the status quo while being able to deny they’re keeping the status quo. (Comment made before watching video)
We don’t like to ignore any societal problems. We just don’t think one sides solutions to all the problems are the best solutions. Some problems would be better with left wing solutions others wouldn’t and that’s the opinion of the individual🤷🏽♂️
Um this position makes no sense. There’s a myriad of political stances and policies and different ways at arriving at one’s positions on those stances. There are also multiple ways to solve problems. It’s typically extreme lefties who claim centrists don’t exist because they want to create a black and white dichotomy where they are the absolute right ones about everything. It’s literally the black and white fallacy on steroids. “Either you agree with me entirely or you are as bad as the extreme opposition because only two options exist.”
just occurred to me, I think a part of the reason im so interested in what you talk about w regards to black men and masculinity is because as a (white) trans man i know my axis of oppression isnt the most extreme transphobic oppression that there is to experience, but that the way that transphobia affects me is not just how it affects trans women but less. its actually in many ways unique and specific to being a trans *man* , in a similar paradigm to how racism affects black men in a different way than black women, and not just as racism plain version. if that makes any sense. so your content in addition to being genuinely educating and growing my empathy and desire for solidarity also gives me some ideas of how to relate to and talk about transphobia as it affects me differently, to a different degree of severity, but not "just the same but less" than trans women.
This is a lot of my experience growing up. While my parents didn't have a degree, my family is filled with black women who got that degree, got their money. And while I was very much given a lot of the knowledge and history necessary to "understand" the way racism affected me and people like me, I was supposed to be on that path of being comfortable. It wasn't until my neurodivergency really hampered that progress that my politics radicalized somewhat.
I can relate to this, I'm white and came from a relatively poor home. My parents were both forced to drop out of hs. I had a good shot at college and a good life, but neurodivedgence got in the way. I didn't really understand that, though, until a few years later and that knocked me out of that centrist bs and pushed me way further left. There's no time like the present to get involved, though. Someone has to do something
I went to Spelman and then went to two Ivy League schools for grad school. I have never in my life been more uncomfortable around black folks than I was those Ivy League black folks who went to an Ivy for undergrad
As a white college educated dude, white Ivy League under grad graduates make me uncomfortable too. A had a lot of friends in highschool that got into IVY league for undergrad abs afterwards it was hard to be friends with them, it made them weird.
@@davidradtke160 Not nearly as elite but at my university, one thing I noticed quickly was how the students who lived on campus or near campus refused to interact with those who commuted and stuck to themselves. You really saw the class divide between those who could afford to live away from their parents for university and those who couldn't.
In Québec and France, we talk about the extreme center. It's a way to express that not trying to change anything is "extremist" or very radical considering the current context. Have you ever come across the concept?
I've been having this issue with my bf for awhile. He's always wanting to play devil's advocate which to an extent is ok, but when it's on issues like racial inequality....I lack to see the need of viewing the issue from a "conservative" perspective. Like nah I don't have to always take their stances into consideration when it's just mudding the waters and preventing progress from being made. He's also very much "the issue is on both sides" like ya, I know both sides can be radicalized but thats besides the point. There are people dying while you sit around making their existence a thought experiment. I've called him out on this and said he's being a bit of a centrist to which he's completely denied, of course. People don't like labels but if it walks like a centrist, swims like one, talks like one....it's a conservative.
I always put it like this. Mainstream American politics work off of a scale that already skews pretty far right compared to a lot of other countries. Our "left" is really more center-right. Being a centrist in this context means you're basically just an embarrassed Republican
The issue is that we have a massive group of regressives in this country who think they're conservative. They're not conserving the status quo at all, they're trying to drag us back to some horrible amalgamation of the 1950s, the 1920s, the 1950s, and even earlier. That's not conserving, that's regressing. It's the center who are conservatives, and the left who are progressives. I know playing semantic games can be a little boring, but it's also helpful to have accurate descriptors, and calling Christian fascists "conservative" hides the nature and meaning of their actual ideology.
I understand and agree with your message. My only nitpick is calling those fascists "Christian." You can be fascist, you can be Christian, but you can't be BOTH. And they've made it clear what ideals they sided with by their action and inactions. "A dog cannot serve two masters."
@@savvivixen8490 The problem is that it's often the case that fascist leaders are associated with deities. Despite Trump being clearly someone who cares nothing for religion, despite the fact that he violates nearly every moral in the Gospels, his Evangelical followers immediately associated him with God. To them, it wasn't serving two masters, it was serving God through their cult-like devotion to Trump. Initially, I had a tn of arguments with people about this. I talked about how the Bible is explicitly against the worship of wealth and excess, against lust and coveting, against the worship of self, and how Trump clearly had not even a passing familiarity with scripture or the message of Christ. Didn't matter. You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. ... that said, Christianity has never been just one thing. As much as I'd like to think that Christianity is first and foremost the explicit messages from Christ in the Gospels, the reality is that since its inception it has been many things to many people. The first ecumenical council was in 325CE. And we currently have 45,000 denominations of Christianity globally, some only separated by tiny, inconsequential details but some separated by vast and irreconcilable differences. And they all come from the same book they all eventually have root in the same teachings, but they diverged in interpretation.
@@willschneider4616 I am aware of all this, yet continue to be disappointed with these people running around calling themselves something they are clearly NOT. Not even remotely.
@@savvivixen8490 I'm not qualified nor inclined to get into Christian gatekeeping (because I absolutely understand the "they're not true Christians" argument, as fallacious as it is logically, and why other denominations WOULDN'T want to claim the Trump koolaid guzzlers, anymore than they want to claim Jim Jones), but out of curiosity, what WOULD you call that denominational group? Like, I don't see why a term can't be coined for that branch specifically from outside, that's kind of how Gnostics and their offshoot branches like the Marcians and Ophidians were named, right? The others gave 'em that name because of their beliefs/prophets/priests?
When I went through my centrist phase it was really just me being too insecure to risk upsetting people with my ideas so I pretended to play on both teams. Then I grew up. (sort of)
The last bit of that rant is the way I've been feeling since OBAMA. Like I was at a BLM rally in 2020 and people looked at me like I was STUPID when I said "All the things y'all hate Trump for is the SAME shit Obama was doin but either y'all didn't notice or care. Now that Trump is just doing it LOUDLY, y'all wanna give a damn."
I don’t remember Obama doing anything remotely close to what Trump was doing when in power, I must have missed that. Since Trump I have evolved on Obama being too conservative, I think Obama was lucky to make it out alive. Knowing what I know now about the American people’s comfort level with white supremacy and inability to see through or resist reactionary backlash. I think of MLK and other black leaders in this country and recognize that it isn’t fair to expect him to be bold and make big changes because he probably wouldn’t have made it out alive. Him just surviving without some silly impeachment or a right wing nut job assassination was a miracle and probably only happened because he purposely avoided angering the white supremacists
@@terrystevens3998 The stat they never repeat (I heard it once and once only from Phil Mudd), six months in office, Obama had more assassination attempts and credible death threats, than W. Bush in his eight years and George W had more than all the other Presidents combined. You look at his Presidency with that in mind and it underscores completely what you just posted.
Lol the responses to your comment are proving a point F.D made about Obama. The rose colored glasses black folks still have for that man to dive in front of these rhetorical bullets whenever he receives criticism is WILD! The point is that some of the SAME political moves made under Trump that we paled at the sight of were going on under Obama as well. That’s not saying Trump and Obama are the same at all just that they both uphold the same status quo because of their privilege and to be outraged at kids in cages under Trump but not Obama is hypocritical.
@@Social_Pugatory every president we have ever had upheld that same status quo, even our “change” presidents worked to uphold capitalism and social norms, when they did make change it was to keep the status quo going.
Been thinking for a long time that Centrists are basically conservatives in the literal sense of the word. They may pay lip services to socially liberal, or social democrat ideas, but if anyone ever comes up with even a moderate plan to change things for the sake of the marginalised, centrists always dismiss it as “extreme left”. The real aim of centrists seems to be keeping the status quo
1. You misrepresented what centrism is. 2. You misrepresented Jordan Peterson’s ideas & talking points. 3. You swear conservatives are closed minded… yet you go out of your way to misrepresent the points made by anyone who doesn’t subscribe to your predetermined set of ideals just so you don’t have to give them any credence. That’s true closed mindedness.
For real. I mean Biden is only a democrat by the hair on his chinny chin chin lol. I don't know why ultra-conservative people act like he's so progressive. At most he's slightly left from center.
I really appreciated your thoughts here. I am left of lib and it can be challenging to discuss and understand all of the voices. Especially since, as you said, liberal is a very different thing in the states than it is across the pond in any direction. I knew Obama was no lib before he came into office, when conservatives were saying he was the most leftist senator in the senate. lolz. And I did adore him for so many other reasons. And. He wasn't even in office yet after he won the presidency, before he and his admin began messaging against the left... right on time. His cabinet picks foreshadowed early. He chose so many people from Clinton era politics. It was a sadness to see this rolling forward. We can't discuss classism in this nation and because of this the public good is hard to champion. Thanks.
I won't lie, these centrist tendencies you had(have?) rubbed me the wrong way when I started watching you, but I'm genuinely impressed by the self reflection. These are some of the hardest things to admit I think.
If you see a bully beating up a kid and you say "I'll remain neutral: I'm gotta let the two of you settle this". The bullied kid will see you as being on the same side as the bully.
I don’t think you understand what a centrist means. Most centrists just don’t like be divided by politics and would prefer to have both political parties to have a middle ground. Comparing them to bystanders is unjust and bias analysis of what they are.
Thank you thank you thank you! I have been saying for years, there is no left wing when it comes to Democrats and Republicans they are both right wing, the former centre right and the latter right wing to far right. Both are conservative in nature which is why it was easy for them to switch platforms over a century ago and can do so again because their rhetoric is surprisingly similar, it’s like Coke versus Diet Coke.
Your male privledge is within the bounds of your experince as a Black man. My white privledge is within the bounds of a white trans-woman. My whiteness, and other privledges carries me through a lot. Just having a family that didnt kick me out os a MAJOR privledge, for our community. But it wont get me through everything. And it may help me navigate other stuff way easier. Just as your male privledges may help you. But, your racialization makes you face shit I just never will. Our privledges come in the boxes of our "othering." In some ways, they are tethered together.
This whole stream was lit with the Kavernacle. Most centrists never seemed that objective to me. They usually would say "I disagree with both sides buttttttttttttt" and they would lose my interest then and there.
Common misconception: centrist doesn't mean you try to choose the neutral position on every issue. Political ideologies are a spectrum. Each issue has a political ideology it aligns with. So if you're pro choice, that puts you towards the left, if you're pro life, that puts you towards the right. But neither of those issues make you a lefty or a righty on their own, because there are a multitude of issues. People who call themselves lefty's or righty's tend to agree almost entirely with one side of every issues viewpoints (or more likely they don't even look at the issues besides a key handful that appeal to them and design their entire political identity based off those key issues.) A centrist is born because their views on certain issues don't always align with one political party. I consider myself a centrist because I have very progressive views and some conservative views. I call myself a left leaning centrist because the majority of my opinions do align with the left, but there are some things I am more closely aligned with the right on. As a centrist, left leaning or not, it is typical to get hate from both sides. The left doesn't think you're left enough, the right doesn't think you're right enough. But that's fine, because centrists think people who identify with political parties and always vote down party lines are brainwashed and picking their favorite sports team rather than the best candidate to handle whatever major problems need to be handled in an area. So continue hating on centrists, we don't care, and continue ruining our country by voting for your favorite team, we'll be there to push the vote to whatever side deserves the win more. Just remember the vast majority of Americans identify as independent. Vote third party.
The problem with this, is that it's not how policy gets enacted. No matter if you're picking and choosing issues from one side or the other, every vote you make is a vote for a party's ENTIRE platform. You don't get to control how they vote after they're in office, and generally speaking, only party solidarity actually gets anything passed. You can't be like 'I voted for this guy because he's fiscally conservative, but I support abortion rights personally', because by voting in a conservative, you INHERENTLY weaken the position of abortion rights. No vote is a vote on a single issue. Every time you vote a Republican into office, you strengthen the entire Republican platform. Every time you vote a Democrat into office, you strengthen the entire Democratic platform. Even if you vote for an independent candidate, that's a vote for the incumbent platform because it doesn't cause a change in party power. This is the reality of the two-party system. Centrism may not be taking neutral positions on individual issues, but it IS taking a pro-status quo position on power dynamics. Whether or not you want to identify as Republican or Democrat, EVERY vote you make benefits one of those two parties by diluting the majority, changing it, or filling a seat without changing it. This will be true as long as the two-party system enforces a need for party solidarity to pass bills.
@@GhostedJackal Well there are many problems with that, but most of them are just two party system woes. I think so many people want to change the two party system, but it just keeps coming back to that Simpsons episode where the aliens disguise themselves and run for president, they get unmasked before the election and say, "what're ya gonna do, vote third party and throw away your vote?!" Like, yes! Vote third party, throw away your vote! If everyone who wants change did this third parties would start winning, they're more popular than ever. It's not even politicians that have us trapped in this two party system, it's psychology. Literally just vote third party, that's all you gotta do. Don't think it might be throwing away your vote. Is it throwing away your vote to vote for a Democrat when the Republican wins? Cuz if not, why is it throwing away your vote if your third party candidate doesn't win? Sorry that was a little ranty, but I also disagree with what you're saying. Right now abortion is a hot button issue, so, sure, I can agree that voting in a Republican supports the anti-abortion agenda. But in the blink of an eye a new issue will be the hot button issue, just like before abortion there was some other issue you HAD to vote for the party you agree with if you want it handled properly. But if we've learned anything in the past year, it's that laws can be changed when you get the people you want in power. You gotta think long term to have any chance of actually playing the game instead of getting played by it. The longer these two parties sit in power the more time they have to make it harder and harder to vote for something besides them. It's not too late, we just gotta get out of our own heads.
@@fisharepeopletoo9653 Except I never said voting third party was 'throwing away your vote'. I said it was affirmatively voting status quo. This IS the reality of the two-party system. It just is. If you're not swinging the needle left or right, you're preserving where it already is. You think that as a leftist, I LIKE Biden? No. However, as I said, you never vote for people in a two-party system, you vote for a platform in its entirety. It isn't JUST that abortion is relevant now, it's that every time you vote Republican you cannot avoid strengthening the entire platform they run on, whether it be crusading against abortion rights or oppressing minorities, or whatever it may be at the time. You cannot separate the good and the bad from a platform. You just get the entire platform. I don't like Biden. I don't like Hillary. I'm increasingly lukewarm on Bernie, even. However, I recognize that the highest chance I have at affecting politics in the way I'd actually prefer to is to install Democrats over Republicans or even over 3rd party candidates. This isn't because I agree with them more than any other party, it's because the two-party system favors installed power and party solidarity. If we had a multi-party system, I could get behind the idea of voting for particular people who most closely represent your ideals without regard to party affiliation, but that's simply not the reality of America. This IS thinking long term. The more actual leftists who force their way under the Democratic umbrella, the more the Democrats have to structure their platform around those leftists to achieve the solidarity needed to pass bills, and without that solidarity, ALL democrats lose out by seeming impotent, and they know this. This is exactly the same method that the far-right used to infiltrate the Republican party, and it WORKS.
@@GhostedJackal That's why my vote is to change the status quo. Voting for either of the two parties is actually keeping the status quo and refusing to move the needle. We need more options and more representation. We need to make the parties fear for their seats, maybe then they'll actually start working for the people. And if not, then we keep voting in the third party, and maybe a fourth and fifth. I'm done with this farce of a system, and no amount of doom talk is going to make me buy back in. We're doomed if we don't change things, I agree with that whole heartedly, I just think the road to change is to do something different, not the same crap we've been doing for decades that got us into this mess to begin with. Do you know what the definition of insanity is?
@@fisharepeopletoo9653 This is very poetic talk, but it's not grounded in reality. No matter how sick you are of Democrats and Republicans, it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE for more than two parties to hold meaningful power in the US due to the way our electoral system is set up. Our political system does not have the means to support multiparty functionality and it's not just something you can wish into existence. This leads back to the reality I already described: Every vote you make, whether it's for a Democrat, a Republican, or an independent, strengthens one of the former two parties. If an independent replaces a democrat, it functionally weakens the democratic party without actually giving more power to independents, because on a functional level, independents will NEED to build bridges with one party over another to achieve the solidarity needed to pass bills. This is the thing you seem to keep ignoring. Without voting power, nothing gets passed. Without coalitions, there is no voting power. Without aligning yourself with one party or another, there are no coalitions. The act of building coalitions strengthens whatever group is doing it by providing more consistent voting power to issues. There is no such thing as an elected representative that doesn't strengthen one of the two main parties and weaken the other.
The limitations of centrism is that it will always act in service to the Norm, where whoever controls the status quo will control the centrist gaze. This is what people mean when they say centrists are conservatives who haven't registered yet. (Side Note: Annoys me when ppl do the both-sides thing but specifically "I seek to criticize authoritarianism in BOTH parties", has this weird conceit to it where it almost universally turns into some excuse about misgendering where its pretty obvious there's something about the departure from heteronormativity that they haven't really reconciled with the fact that it makes them uncomfortable. Always wondered what the right way to handle that is.)
A straw man at best lol As a centrist I don’t believe in “maintaining the norm” 🤦🏽♂️ It’s just that change needs to be carefully made. Not all progress is good progress, but progress must be made regardless. The Centrist gaze? 😂😂😂 And this is why we need individualism on some level. Not every centrist thinks the same. Their beliefs are solely those of the individual therefore can’t be a certain gaze targeted towards a centrist audience.
@@camquest6108 1. I didn't say you "believed" in the status quo. I'll assume that was just a misunderstanding. You don't have to support maintaining the norm in order to act in service to it. Cite Appeasement Theory. 2. I never argued all centrists act the same. I just recognize that centrists aren't as immune to groupthink as many seem to think. "Their beliefs are solely those of the individual", as if ideas come out of a vacuum? Really? Those thoughts didn't just fall out of the sky, and they certainly aren't immune to the same pitfalls as the left or right. Citing that you're not a monolith doesn't exempt your principle pipelines of thought from criticism.
@@guhrid4893 They as in Centrists. I said that each and every centrist may have different opinions on different subjects than others do, and everyone actually does rip each others heads off about it. Or at least that's been my experience.
Yeah looking back, before I realized I was trans, bi, and autistic (I had been diagnosed but downplayed it), I was your cishet white male, and like so much of my politics up until I was 21 and realized I was bi and trans was pushing back at shit and reifying cisheteropatriarchal white supremacy. So basically I was your typical vaguely progressive white social democrat. I don't need to say more on that lmao. And like especially for leftist white supremacy it took me listening to white voices and experiencing the transmisogyny embedded white supremacy to properly try and decenter myself on my whiteness. One thing I still need to do is talk the talk more on that. That's like been something I've been trying to keep that in mind when like trying to build support networks with other trans people here in Texas. (not meaning for any of this to come off as self congratulatory or whatever. Idk sometimes that's hard to discern with autism)
Don't get centrists at all unless you think we live in a world perfect for you or just privileged. Centrism got us the 3/5th compromise between slavery and abolition.
Someone who is right wing, pushes the idea that they are centrist so they can normalize extreme right wing ideas. It's a very simple, and very old technique.
Not all the time though. Looking through this comments section, it seems like the word centrism is being used in multiple different ways. I’d say I feel like I’m “centrist” because Im more or far to the left on some issues and more right leaning on other issues. In reality though I’m probably more of a moderate Democrat but I have a hard time saying that because I hate all the PC cancel culture bullshit rhetoric on the far left. What pisses me off about American politics is this whole “you’re with me or against me attitude” that both sides have adopted. Once in a blue moon you’ll see some bipartisan agreement on smaller issues but when it comes to the big issues no one will compromise. Sometimes it just seems like both sides will ostracize and hate you if you don’t fall left or right on every single issue out there.
@@baseballpimp1910 dont even try it dude. It is normal when you are in one side to label everybody as your opposition, i love this guy channel but he doesnt have real external perspective for i can see, but idk i am not american.
@@iurivanastacio3081 The US have literal neon4z!s on their right and the (still US) right's president legit endorsed a neon4z! march. There's your perspective.
People who like to proclaim themselves centrist are broadcasting to the world that they are 'reasonable' and not a 'wild-eyed extremist'. They do this without so much a clear understanding of modern issues and the spectrum of solutions which would put you in either a conservative, moderate or progressive camp, but they embrace the centrism label because they have been conditioned to fear the radical label and they fear being perceived as being too aligned with the rightwing or leftwing and all the alienation it may entail. Often times 'centrists' have a shallow understanding of the issues and there are some issues where you cannot split-the-difference between solutions, you either are for something or against. These 'centrists' may actually be either conservative or progressive based on their internal preference to solutions OR even have a shallow understanding of the issues themselves, but their whole focus is wrapping themselves in the reflexive legitimacy of moderation and centrism; which shows they are more concerned about how others perceive them rather their actual positions on issues. I personally don't care about this radical label. Radical is in the eye of the beholder. Martin Luther King said it best: “When you are right, you cannot be too radical; When you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative.”
very well said. i think it is also great to challenge this conceit of "being radical on any issue is bad" by pointing out that supporting the status quo of racist, mass murdering, colonial, carceral states is actually pretty radically right wing and anti humanist from many perspectives, including some very traditional ones.
@@deaconlasagna8570 of course which system is all of those and to what extent are debatable. Which is where centrists come in. They approach it with and open but cautious mind, prioritizing truth, facts and solutions, over extremist, exaggerated and all to often ignorant far left/right positions
@@redrkstone What motivates that caution? It is not a given that it is mere prudence, it can also be a desire to maintain a perceived beneficial institution. Such caution could also signify an understanding lacking the true impact of said policy or institution on negatively impacted parties. Such caution could also be a simple fear of dramatic change in the social order. You mention that centrists come in prioritizing truth facts and solutions, sometimes truth and the facts lead you to a place that given current ideological litmus tests, forces you into one camp versus the other. People do not see your method at arriving at a preferred solution, they see the result of your process and either identify with you or view you as an enemy. Bottom line, do not be too enamored with this term centrist. It means very little and is mostly meant to broadcast a rational approach. All that matters in this debate is what are your solutions, and is there a way for society to test your solution to see if it solves a problem or not.
@@RiyazGuerra solutions are best found with intelligent, informed and thorough consideration. Good ideas must be found and implemented. Extremists are rarely good at this. Extremists are often close minded, intolerant, and violent.
@@redrkstone It is a given there will be some extremists who are closed minded, intolerant and violent. Let us agree to condemn such individuals while still acknowledging the term extremist is a very subjective term and not an objective one. In a more rational society there could be an objective description of an extremist, but in our world this term is thrown around irresponsibly and serves as mostly projection with respect to the great disagreement with another's goals and methods. I submit that it would be logical fallacy that rationality, intelligent assessment of the facts are restricted to the 'centrist' or 'moderate'. There are individuals whose goals and commitment to said goals are so different compared to conventional political goals they earn the unfortunate title of extremist in the judgement of many. In reality they have used facts and reason, guided by a goal or perceived threat to arrive at a solution for a problem dealt with very differently in modern society. If modern society is poorly addressing a social ill, a proposed remedy to correct it, reflective of the gross neglect by modern society, will be perceived as radical or extreme. It is unavoidable. All of what I said is NOT a defense of all PERCEIVED radicalism or extremism, it's a cautionary note to not let these labels lead you to dismiss another with a different perspective. Too often these labels are a barrier to understanding.
Haven't even watched the video, but yes. Thank you for this vid. No such thing as a "centrist" in fact MLK said that the "moderate democrat" was worse than an outright racist republican because they ALSO serve as gatekeepers because they ALSO serve that doctrine. They on the same time bruh.
I also come from a similarly privileged black home, college graduate parents, suburb school with a healthy black population as to not be a "fly in the milk". I was fortunate to have other black nerds in my highschool many of which I'm still friends with to this day. We often joke that we are a group of token black kids that banded together. My parents often pushed me and my siblings to do better than they did. As I'm now expecting my first child and trying to do just that, it's sobering how quickly my progressive inclinations subside when seeking any advantage. In terms of schooling in my area it looks like there is no step up from what my parents afforded me and even those gains are eroding. It's as if my upbringing is the best my child can expect. Unless I subject them to being the sole black child in a better district. Many black people with a little elevation are terrified of falling. The forces working against them are often more tangible than the ghosts of aggrieved whites. I know it doesn't justify becoming that which we fear, But it's a constant struggle....
I do think it's possible to come from or operate within a position of privilege while still fighting against the status quo. All that's required is a capacity for genuine empathy, which sadly seems to be in short supply, especially among "centrists."
This. Americans are unique in that they have to have something bad happen to them personally in order for their "empathy muscle" to be activated. This is not so much the case in the rest of the developed world.
@@jnyerere I mean, some people are like that even outside of America. But most are actually capable of genuine empathy and usually keep the extremistss at bay.
@@jnyerere I live in Switzerland, a country with a heavy right wing bias. Policies which are bad for poor people are in pretty good standing here, and institutionalized xenophobia is growing. Whether the phenomenon you're describing works exactly as you described it or not, the general phenomenon you seem to be noticing exists here as well.I don't think this is an "American" thing. I suspect it's actually everywhere, and not just restricted to certain parts of the world.
In my personal opinion identifying as either strictly liberal or conservative is limiting. You have to be willing to challenge your beliefs on all topics, not just the ones you agree with.
Yes you do! And both sides will fucking *HATE* you for it! Welcome to Radical Centrism my friend. Where we always vie for the best possible solution to each individual problem regardless of party lines or where that particular solution might fall on the political compass! The only remotely reasonable political ideology. Though I personally view it as less of an ideology and really just as common sense. Every problem deserves its best solution, and anything less (especially in the name of an ideology) should be viewed as unacceptable. To think that the best solution to every problem is always going to lie on one side of the political spectrum is a narcissist’s delusion.
It is because of neoliberalism economics and every western country that has this economic system really both parties are the same thing and really can’t govern in any other way because of treaties and economics
The Deprogram had an episode about centrists and the ideology behind not having an ideology. Highly recommend it. Second Thought's podcast btw (tho I dont think he was in the episode).
Yeah, by the definition of politics, if you don't agree, you're opposed. I don't see the dunk here, other than a weak defense of conservatism as somehow the natural state of being.
2:00 I appreciate this kernel of nuance. That "fly in the milk" experience is often treated like a blanket privilege by Black people from large Black communities. But there is something to be said about growing up without the support and affirmation of a black community, of black teachers, of black friends, etc. Etc. Lots of Black folks from the big cities think they and their communities are the pinnacle of Blackness, and those of us in the rest of the country / world are basically subBlack
as I was about to disagree... I realized that since you're american, what YOU view as "left" or "right" is pretty skewed. I whole heartledly disagree that there is no such thing as a "centrist" though. A "centrist" is someone who isn't clearly left or right. They have some left leaning views and some right leaning views. Cause this is the problem with the 'left'.. they tend to view things as "either you're 100% left or your 'right', therefore you're 'conservative'" ... even if your views are 90-95% left. It's like the one drop rule but for political leaning.
Earned a subscriber here dude, for whatever that's worth. Fight the good fight man. Fuck Jordan Peterson. I had a boss who wouldn't stfu about him and Joe Rogan and I just had to listen to it.
I get holding on to that stuff, even if you want to fight for something better. I am trans, and I should know better. But it's easy to fall into the trap.
Centrism = ppl that are not bothered by what's happening. And will say and do anything to avoid getting in any arguements. Makes them disingenuous and unreliable.
I don't know, from my experience, telling "Centrist" that things are "Already Extreme" is kind of like pulling back the curtain, because a lot of them already know, but are trying to "Think Positive" (As in they will close the curtain back if they can, even as they make some acknowledgements). And that kind of sucks because I don't want to be a "Debbie Downer"... but it's important to know that it's not really an "Extreme on the Left", like those people exist, but they have almost 0 voice presence in society, and the real reason we are seeing "Growing Extremes" is because the problems of Reality are becoming much more "Extreme", we really are moving past "Extreme" on many issues.
So many say, "Protest the way I'm saying you should protest, what you're doing is too radical." What they're really saying is, "Protest in a way that I'm comfortable with, that lets me keep ignoring you."
I know people who describe themselves as moderate/centrist but lean left (at least socially). I think some people just use the term because the don't like the divisiveness of politics. And others use it like Fiq said, to hide their bad views. I also have a Canadian view point which is a more liberal culture in general.
Saying you’re a centrist bc you don’t like the divisiveness of politics wouldnt make that much sense tbh? When one side is denying someone’s rights the other would be rightfully angry. It sounds like those (privileged) people that think we should all get along even though we all have different morals and views.
@@HerbBrid3 see, youre the type of people those “privileged” people want to avoid. Youre using a political party as a moral standard and ofc people arent comfortable with that. As long as politics is being painted as us against them theyre killing us and taking everything from us “War” instead of a tool used to examine observe asses and rebuild change and correct broken systems people are going to continue to avoid politics. Privileged shouldnt be thrown around as a insult. Oppressor shouldnt used to paint a common enemy. These are just oversimplifying, vague virtue signals used by people to make a quick point of complex issues. media at large is already prone to taking the most extreme of extremes and runningit to the ground, until everyones desensitized. Until the next extreme thing happens. These speaking point do more harm than good.
@@kidawesomeness123 I think both political parties aren’t that great, but one is objectively worse than the other. Where you stand politically goes along with where you stand morally, and you can’t separate the two. Be uncomfortable all you want but it is what it is. When one side thinks you don’t deserve to exist then yeah, you’d be mad, rightfully. For someone who’s privileged, all these issues are just hypotheticals for them, they can easily get along with someone who has a different set of morals and opinions. If you’re not gay, poc, disabled etc, you wouldn’t care as much about being friends with homophobes, racist and ableists. That is because you’re privileged enough to not have to deal with those issues and not be discriminated against by those people. You can’t avoid politics, it’s everywhere and impacts everyone. Especially minorities.
@Mohlakala Tleane What? If someone being mad about their rights being taken away or you not liking certain people in that oppressed group annoys you so much to where you don’t want to fight for them then you just didn’t care..Be fr. No one has to kiss up to you or be super nice so you can fight with them on these issues, you either care or you don’t.
@@kidawesomeness123 I never even said it was an insult. If you’re privileged you’re privileged, you’re the one taking it that way. The word privileged has an actual meaning to it, it’s not just some insult. In my last comment I literally explained why that would be privileged and that went over your head apparently. And you say politics have nothing to do with morals but thats factually wrong theres no debate there. One side constantly passes laws that hurt trans children, and I think that HEAVILY shows where their morals are at. It shows the morals of the people who pass the laws and the people who support them. I can go on and on about how politics have to do with morals, but I assumed that would’ve been obvious?
I always want to ask a centrist 'exactly what is the center point between every person has a fundamental right to exist and be safe and some people don't?' I'm still learning, I still say dumb shit (I think I've even said dumb shit under your videos but I won't delete it because that seems dishonest and it wasn't hateful, just dumb) but hopefully I can drag some of my centrist acquaintances with me in the learning and doing to ensure that first point 'every person has a fundamental right to exist and be safe' .
there isnt a center point to that. thats a straw man argument. To say that all centrists beleive that is kind of ridiculous. A centrist is someone who doesnt mesh with either side of the political spectrum but that doesnt mean they stand in the middle with every issue. Thats like saying "I feel like asking people on the left why they hate families and want white men to die horrible deaths" they obviously dont all think that, thats asking a question based on the perception of people from the outside. Its not the point anyone is trying to make.
@@madmintentertainment6268 I would be inclined to agree with you, IF the right wasn't Actively seeking to remove rights from people and degrade certain peoples position in society to sub-human. Right now in the current political climate the say your a centrist is to refuse to take a stand against actual fascism and authoritarianism. It may have been at some point that a centrist represented a center-point in politics, but with the right actively dragging the Overton window to the extreme right centrist can either join the left or be moved to the right. The idea that ALL people deserve respect and access to the basic necessities of life is not one that really has a good counter argument, you can not like the tactics, or the vitriol of how its being expressed, that is valid, many of us where raised to be polite, and the right is using that discomfort with conflict to silence 'centrists' into letting them hurt people. The actual point is still either true or not, unfortunately those are the points on the political spectrum at the moment all people are people, or they are not, there is no center point to that.
@@madmintentertainment6268 You can’t be a leftist, and have people based on color or gender. Thus the problems on the left, for wanting EXTREME tolerance, but yeah you strawmanned a nonexistent straw man…
@@victoriajankowski1197 I agreed with that. However to say that the entire left is only fighting for the equality and freedom of all people is wrong. Especially when you see how a huge number on leftists on twitter sometimes call for genocide against certain groups of people. Not wanting to stand on the left and not wanting to stand on the right makes sense when you realise that both sides ESPECIALLY in american politics just want different kinds of authoritarianism. One is just better at pretending otherwise and tries to appeal to peoples morality.
@@madmintentertainment6268 I avoid twitter like the plague, call me a luddite I guess I value my mental health over exposure to what ever that mess is. I do honestly understand the two wings of the same bird thing, which is why I identify as left not liberal, I think one could meaningfully argue that there are two very different political discussions happening in the United states, and that the similarity of verbiage creates confusion, there is the left/right republican/democrat conversation, and the left/right progressives/conservative authoritarian conversation. I can only speak to my position, and my original post was intended to prompt others to speak to theirs. My position as a left leaning progressive is that every person has a fundamental right to exist with dignity and autonomy and have meaningful access to the necessities of life. Authoritarianism in any sense is completely at odds with those ideals. I don't have all the answers to how we achieve the inherent goals of my position but I do what I can where I am at and I continue to seek education from a variety of perspectives.
in response to the comments and (kind of) this video I think the belief that "there is no centrist" comes from the genuine belief that the left wing is the only right way to be with no admission to any fault on the left. "We are pure! the enemy is bad" "anyone who is not with us is the enemy!" Idk man, maybe i beleive that the status quo should be challenged, capitalism is failing and equality of opportunity should be for all. But I also think people should be allowed to say whatever they want and do whatever they want as long as they arent actively hurting anyone? Maybe I dont think white men are the devil? Maybe I want to talk about mens issues or other things that the left dont wanna talk about? I can fight racism and also criticise the left. I think "anyone who doesnt agree with this line of politics completely is my enemy or uneducated" is an easy and ,to be frank, cowardly way of viewing things. Respect and all that, but this aint helping division chief. Its gearing up for war, and none of you keyboard warriors know what that means.
Those are all leftist issues. Not everyone who calls themselves a leftist embodies them, but look at a political spectrum chart and show me where it has thinking white men are the devil on the left. Its not a political position that is particularly leftist.
Cough cough, you're kind of doing the same thing you accuse the left of doing. Also may I introduce to you: r/MensLib which is lefty, feminist, inclusive, and addresses mens' issues. And about the only place I found that wasn't mired in the manosphere manhood-gatekeeping and misogyny outside of youtube.
even so called "democratic socialists" who favor themselves centrists, always lean right especially when it comes to the matter of maintaining capitalism.
@@kmfdm5 this misses a lot of nuances on political opinions. For example someone could be anti abortion because they think it’s murder but also be a straight up maoist. Someone can support UBI but also not want to tax corporations above 50% A lot of positions aren’t contradictory or confused at all. And this is often what people mean by centrists. Ideas that aren’t inherently left or right that are merely associated
The problem is that most people are pretty complex. You can try to shove people into simple political categories, but it's a misnomer. The centrism hate is totally unnustified bc most ppl aren't 100 percent one thing, and it's unproductive. Just because you have a hard time accepting the nuance of individuals' politics does not make centrism any less valid.
As a European I have to disagree. Thanks to the US and the Internet people are drifting more towards to extreme ends of politics but until not too long ago we used to have nuanced politics. I am definitely centrist. I dislike the left and the right. I don’t like the left for acting like any notion that they’ve just come up with like 10 minutes ago is to be accepted as the new standard or else you’re a whatever-phobe or a bigot. I dislike the right for their fear and rejection of the unknown. I dislike the left for forcing social sciences onto people as if they were actual hard science (which they aren’t). I dislike the right for their tendency towards fascism. I dislike the left for being hysterical and I dislike the right for being smug. I dislike both for thinking that they are morally superior. I hate both for their extremism. I dislike both because of their actual scientific ignorance and I dislike them for so confidently making claims about science while being so damn oblivious. I dislike both for so many reasons and on almost any political issue they just make me wonder if all of politics isn’t just a giant sh** show designed to make people take extreme irrational stances on either side of any argument. I am neither 100% pro abortion, nor am I for an absolute ban. I welcome progress and multiculturalism but I do think there is value in conserving culture and religion. I don’t think that many public “right wing” figures are actually right wing, not to mention fascistic. Put Joe Rogan in an airplane or a time machine to go to any non-western (and even some western) country or like 15 years into the past and you have a freaking leftie-left-hippie. Jordan Peterson on the hand is an actual crypto-nazi which almost no one the left or the right actually gets. I am a centrist, not because I am actually a closet righty, or a closet leftie and just ashamed of either side, I am ashamed of both sides. I am a centrist, not because I don’t want to take a stance but because life is not just black and white and things aren’t mostly that simple or only have two completely opposing solutions. I am a centrist, not because I don’t care about people but precisely because I care for people and I don’t think it helps society if we’re completely polarized and hateful.
I think you misunderstand what centrism means. I am a centrist myself and what it means for me is that I refuse to automatically affirm the arguments or beliefs posited by either the left or the right. I will CONSIDER the inherent logic and evidence presented by both sides equally, and will then take a position on each individual issue based on who did so the most effectively. So, at different points in time my views seem to have swayed quite far left, but then as other issues have arisen I seem to go more to the right. Because both the far left and far right are vulnerable to taking ideological stances at times and can be blind to their own hypocrisy. I want to remain free to criticise bad ideas no matter where they come from, rather than feeling predisposed to one world view on all issues simply because they have some good points to make on a few other topics. Centrism is just a byword for critical thinking. To demonise it is quite suspicious.
I don't affiliate with any party I think both sides have good and bad qualities and I feel in my experience siding with either side you "welcome" the worst of that party cuz a lot of these mfs that democrat or Republican won't listen to truth only to what can push they party forward shits like Game of Thrones fr🤣 like I'mma always be team empathy and rational
People are really not aware of how many things need to change and how much work it will take to change these things. Like you said alot of things are already at an extreme level so extreme change is necessary
What's that saying "Scratch a liberal/centrist and a fascist bleeds.". Obama's legacy is going to be a very interesting one to look back and study in the next twenty years. I'm hoping it won't be as bad a Reagan. But wouldn't be surprised if it's close to as bad as Reagan.
Everyone I know who has ever identified as a “centrist” has always been extremely right wing. Like, some of the most racist, sexist, homophobic, islamophobic, transphobic, etc people I have ever had the displeasure of knowing
Its hard for some people to wrap their mind around, but, if one finds themselves feeling as though the left and the right are nothing more than bizarro versions of one another, and that the extremist ends of both sides feel rather mentally ill, and comes to conclusion that, they would prefer a party with the values that both sides share; and then they call themselves a centrist... That's really not that outrageous or ridiculous or extreme. It comes off as pretentious to anyone else, but I don't even think anyone truly finds it pretentious no matter how loud they scream that centrism is nonsense, at the end of the day; "moderation is the key" is a good idea to apply to politics, and the idea that someone would even think that centrism is a good idea; it infuriates people much like communism infuriates right wingers. But centrism infuriates communists too. The point isn't to infuriate anyone though, the thought patterns of a centrist are just too extreme for extremists, and all they can do is say "nobody really believes in centrism; they're just trying to be edgy" I repeat, to oppose centrism as far to consider centrists delusional; is the only defense a liberal/conservative has against a centrist. A centrist can vote red, blue, green, or independent and still be a centrist. This is not up for debate. An argument against a balanced scale is insanity.
I think you misunderstand centrism, it's not about hearing out both sides equally, or trying to sit on the fence, it's about the fact that there are MANY people who agree with conservative ideas AND progressive ones, and these people don't feel represented by either party. It's more of an issues by issue thing, people can commit to ideas, it's just they don't fit as neatly into the boxes others try to put them in.
Love seeing you lot cry about someone thinking for themselves and agreeing with both sides on different issues, something leftists seem to be inherently incapable of doing.
The most frustrating political argument I ever had was with an older relative who insisted that JK Rowling had been treated cruelly by the internet. We had a long back and forth where the thing I found most frustrating was that when he defended transphobic talking points, he would do it in a half-hearted way and insist that he didn't believe them, he just 'understood how you could see it that way' and it was all very complicated and hard to know for certain. And eventually we got to the heart of the matter, because he said he wasn't going to fight against transphobia or racism or fatphobia, and he didn't have to and that didn't make him a bad person. And I realized that if it was possible for a position to be found genuinely and unambiguously wrong, he saw that as a fundamental failure of moderacy. Because if the power to see and define oppression belongs in the hands of the oppressed, then the privileged don't get to define morality.
Yuuup. I've noticed this a lot, but there's a lot of resentment among moderates and centrists of having to "care" about racism and sexism and transphobia. Because racism is a "Black problem" and homophobia is a "gay problem." It's got nothing to do with them. And so there more upset at the people who continually bring up these topics than they are on people who actually add to oppression.
@@TheSkaOreo naturally, bc they and their loved ones are the ones doing the oppressing. impossible for these mfs w their imagined moral high ground to even consider that maybe they’re the bad guys, that maybe they’re complicit
centrist philosophy = i dont care how many people you starve to death , enslave and send to work camps to die, as long as i dont have to see it with my own eyes and as long as i am never inconvenienced in my pursuit of wealth, i do not care.
Facts💯
I think this is bad shorthand but at times not wrong. You realize what the left is fighting for now in a few decades will be a centrist stance then where people are comfortable and want to maintain the status quo.
Its not an agenda based platform rather I simply dont want to pay the cost to move from here the nuance is move from here can be literally anywhere in the next couple of years or decades.
I think the problem is most "centrists" don't even think it all that much. I've met some people who call themselves centrist, who clearly would be more lefty if the got a bit more into politics. It's all about being educated properly
I think that is only true if you take the worst case most bad faith strawman interpretation of the idea of being centrist. its more along the lines of we live with millions of people and the vast majority of them want what is best for people. We disagree on what we think is best for people, sometimes to the point that we see the other side as actively trying to hurt us when that is in reality almost never the case. The centrist idea is that because there are millions of people with these differing ideas we need to allow some things from one group, some things from other groups and some things that are a compromise between all of the groups. That system of thinking may or may not be good based on your philosophy but that is a good faith explanation of the idea.
People take this approach with any philosophy that challenges their world view and makes them uncomfortable. Veganism is a good example of this. I think there's another level beyond just not wanting to be uncomfortable though. If I tell people I'm a vegan people get super weird about it. Because when you make people aware of a world view in which doing _blank_ is unethical and they are active in doing that thing they will feel attacked, even if that philosophy is purely personal and you do not actively engage people about it. It's this weird notion that if ____ world view exists, which stipulates that _____ is bad, then that means I'm bad and I don't like being told I'm bad. No one actually called you bad though, the entire process was internalized.
"Oh no I don't care for politics that much. I'm pretty centrist to be honest. I really just believe in (insert blatantly conservative rhetoric)."
Centrists are usually conservatives embarrassed about being conservatives, or people who are too lazy to take the steps needed to understand politics.
The latter is just as inexcusable BUT I can at least understand that it’s hard to take those first big steps. Politics and social issues are super complicated. That being said, We in this comment section have all done it. Liberals have done it. Libertarians have done it. Hell, fascists have done it. It’s not impossible so there’s no excuse for choosing centrism. As for the self-hating conservatives, lol if I can tell people I’m a communist in a country where fascism is more acceptable, than you can admit your shit philosophy too.
I have strong beliefs, political and other. I only use that tactic to deflect a dialogue with unhinged fanatics that I really don’t want to converse with regarding matters they are very emotional about, and the worse part is these types of people often try to initiate this conversation. Legit I am not going to have a worth while discussion about politics with someone that swears by hypnosis.
… but they also say they really believe in (insert blatantly liberal rhetoric)
@@mmbyron FACTS
Every fucking time
We have two right wing parties, Right and Far right.
I call the US parties Right and Righter
Imagine having a two party system.
@@Sgt-Wolfis that you George Washington?
You mean left-center right, and just normal right? Republicans aren't fascist, they are conservative. Democrats aren't right wing, they are either left, (DEMSOC) center left, (SOCDEM or progressive) Center, (Modern Liberals and third way) or Center right. (Moderates, Classical liberals, neoliberals, libertarians, and centrists)
I don't think I truly understood centrism until I read about Pyrrhonism. In ancient Greece, the Pyrrhonists wanted to hear out both sides and treat every argument as equally frivolous not to come to a conclusion or even a compromise, but to extend the debate indefinitely. That way, they need never take a side, and they can continue to exist comfortably thinking they are the real enlightened ones.
Whether centrists realize it or not, that is their goal. Not enlightenment, not balance, not even 50/50 compromise, but total political and philosophical inertia.
so well said, i’m gonna have to read up on pyrrhonism, never heard of it so this sounds really interesting.
i would argue that pyrrhonism cant be contained to a single political label. id go as far to say it *is* politics
Couldn't have explained it better. Centrists are too cowardly to proudly pick a position and stick with it.
@@jnyerere nah. It just means they believe in compromise. A big issue with intellectualizing very simple topics is that you often miss the larger, more accurate, and more simplistic answer right in front of you.
Beautifully put
Always remembered this from Twitter: centrists are conservatives who expect a thank you card
lmao
Yup
now now let's have some civil, level discussion here, okay? calm down. calm down. there are many good points from both sides, okay?
@@transsexual_computer_faery no such thing as a good european. sorry
@@saturationstation1446 true, true
Anytime I see someone explain themselves as a centrist, I just think "Oh, so you're a conservative, then."
So you're politisplaining people's politics?
Yes to all of this. Here in the UK the Liberal Democrats are a political party which are like the Conservatives only without power they use the same rhetoric as the Conservatives only politely, and see themselves as centrists but in reality are a splinter group.
@@christopherbrown5409 yes
@@christopherbrown5409 anyone calling themselves a "centrist" doesn't actually understand politics
@@jonathanbosak8581 and this is acceptable WHY?
And yet I love being the center of attention 🤔 Explain that!
Great comment
hahahahahahhahaha
Oh no. Not the N-word again🌝
7:57 As someone born and raised in Aoteroa New Zealand, can confirm that the Democrat's policies are more right wing than our main centre-right party called National. National wants tax cuts and to weaken unions and things like that, but no way in hell would any National politician even think of suggesting that national healthcare is bad. Even on abortion, which is more of a split issue, in 2020 our government voted to remove abortion from the Crimes Act (making it fully legal to get an abortion) and it would be political suicide for a party to suggest adding it again.
All this to say that when what is considered "centre" is so dependent on the political context of a particular nation, then being a centrist can absolutely mean being a conservative.
Very well said.
As a fellow Kiwi I hope National doesn't get in next time and stalls our progress for a few years, I feel like we are at a tipping point where we could start seeing some real positive change if we get a more progressive government.
National wouldn't come out and say "let's get rid of public healthcare". They just starve it, like all our infrastructure, and let the rich use their tax cuts to pay for healthcare the rest of us can't afford.
@@itcouldbelupus2842 I'm from Italy and some of the rethoric of the Republicans is similar to that of the far right that we have here too. Although even if they were to win the elections, most of the things that they would want to do, would be considered un-Constitutional and so would not happen.
With all due respect, this take lacks perspective.
I compared the National Party with the Democratic Party, and the Democrats are overall most definitely _not_ to the right of them. Even with healthcare, the main difference is that the Democrats have been pushing to implement universal healthcare through public option rather than single-payer. They also have to deal with the Republican Party, who has increasingly moved to the far right.
@@Mr_DPZ Thanks for your reply!
I see where you're coming from, and I don't disagree with you, but I think you're missing my main point-- that the political contexts across NZ and the US are just so different, and what is considered a "debate" in American is almost a given here. National is definitely right wing, that's not what I'm arguing. My point is more that what is considered by the mainstream to be right wing is different. If we want to get technical, NZ's Overton Window is further left than the US's. I absolutely agree that this is in large part because of Republican efforts to move further and further right.
Something that I do want to clarify as well, because I think it's important context, is that the while the US has a two party system, NZ has mixed member proportional (MMP). This means that the diversity of left wing opinions within the Democrats is larger than in our big left wing party, Labour. If a politician/voter is more right wing, they will go to another party like National, Act, or NZ First. If they are more left wing, they'll go to the Greens, Te Paati Māori, or The Oppurtunies Party. Who these parties are isn't really important here. My point is more that progressives are clumped into the same party as liberals, and often have to compromise in a lot areas in order to appeal to the most people, and therefore appear more conservative than many individual politicians may be.
Hope this makes sense!
I think the phrase "you are what you cosign" is apt to describe centrism. If you believe in upholding a status quo which benefits an oppressive class because it works for you, you're siding with the oppressors.
Even if you make the argument that you as a centrist aren't "actively" hurting the vulnerable, your inactions make you complicit. As the saying goes: the world is not being destroid by evil people but rather those with the power to do something about it and choose to not bother.
You have to be rather privileged in life to be a "centrist". Someone born and living poor can't afford to compromise since they fighting for their lives each damn day. They either remove left or right, depending on what they might think is the issue causing them to struggle
yes, but ackshually, they are actively siding with oppressors, because they are. they just dont see it as oppression. they see it more like a "law of the jungle" thing. "capitalism is the best system humanity is able to produce, it's the better evil"-type beat.
@@workt42 You're right, I forgot that every time a privileged centrist decides to stop being a right wing tool and start being a decent human being with common sense, they put their physical wellbeing at great direct risk.
Thanks for educating me in the matter.
@@workt42 And yet you don't actually abstain, do you? You pay them money to keep beating up women. If you disagree, what do you think your taxes are?
@@workt42 alright broh, so you just choose to complete ignore the part where ei explicitly state the connection between centrism,privilege and the status quo. Apathy and centrism are completely different things, the fact you use both interchangeable say everything I need to know about your line of thought. In fact, I made the connection between centrism and status quo at the very beginning precisely to separate the vulnerable who's too preoccupied with day to day survival or is simply faded by sal of life injustice from the privilege "centrist", the centrist I just defined before.
If you're not part of a vulnerable population (working class, POC, LGBTQ, whatever else...) but you are politically apathetic, then it doesn't comes from a place of defeatness, if that is even a word but a genuine place of "I just don't give a fuck about others", and the fact that you intentionally choose apathy and centrism as the same thing, makes me believe you lean toward the later.
Being a centrist is just being a mild conservative who's too cowardly to admit it because they know that side of the fence is fucked up.
Preach!
Nixon was right about the "Silent Majority" of Americans.
@Mohlakala Tleane nah I’m pretty sure the reason for that is the electoral college, political donors, and gerrymandering
@Mohlakala Tleane Probably a lot more to do with structural disadvantages due to the electoral college and Gerrymandering … but I agree this comment and video fall into the same dumb “they are bad we are good” psychologizing they seem to think they’re beyond.
or there just people who are invested in the current status Quo and value the current system over pushing it left or right. All of the concepts were pushing for today will later on be some centrist position in the future. Its not an issue of policy or agenda but the cost and consequence to move society from where it is today.
A centrist is a conservative who won’t say the “quiet thing” out loud.
They aren’t so quiet anymore. The rights constant culture war fights are exposing them online for where they really stand on social issues and whew we got a lot more conservatives than we thought(at least socially).
A centrist is someone who doesn’t blindly follow ideologies of hate.
THIS.
@@redrkstone they're the most blind followers of all, centrists define themselves by being in the middle of two positions so they're completely dependent on either side to define those positions.
@@dadbodenvy4247 no you have been blinded by you ideology. Centrists look for solutions that work irrespective of political ideology. It’s solving a problems and making society better, not about pushing one ideology or agenda.
There’s two flavors of self-identified centrist I’ve encountered:
1. Conservatives that have enough decency to be embarrassed by the vast majority of their political bedfellows
2. People who aren’t engaged with the information beyond article headlines and Facebook posts/memes
My parents are a bit of both. A co-worker is strictly in category 2 and I have to inform her some of the “scary stuff” she’s heard about are easily debunked conspiracy theories.
3.) Have a few disagreements with leftist ideas, so they dont identify as leftist. That used to be me.
@@deeznauts6543 Fair enough. In truth I don’t talk politics much with folks irl so my pool of subjects is pretty limited.
@@deeznauts6543 I somewhat agree with that mostly cuz I think it is rather difficult to represent your whole world view with one single label, as well as I have some thoughts who aren't strictly leftist.
But even then for simplicity sake I would consider myself a leftist. I genuinely can't think of a single centrist or right wing idea I agree with.
Don't forget the "Democratic" representatives (Manchin, etc.) who aren't embarrassed at all, but are just beholden to their monied interests.
@@danjo2080 I'd add Synema to them, Corporate Democratics are just Republicans in disguise. Plus, the Republican want to live in a past that they personally do not know at all. Democrats, at least the reasonable ones, would simply like to live in the present and try to aim towards the future where it is possible.
I’m white and grew up very conservative, and as I was becoming more liberal I considered myself a moderate because I was coping with the confusion of changing ideology, but I see people wanting to stay right there to defend the status quo. I don’t get that. It was a stepping stone for me and I’ve continued to go further left. I think it’s very hypocritical to be centrist, or at least ignorant, or at worst covert conservatives and enabling the worst politically. So what you’re saying makes sense to me from my experience, the more privilege the more willing you might be to ignore the reality of the status quo. Bc the status quo is oppression for most people
to me it was always because of being a product of my enviroment. There's just one point when you know stuff and you realize the real reason people are conservative, and I neither benefit nor find any comfort in mantaining hieracrchies.
@@gars129 my dad is conservative while the rest of his 7 brother and sisters are very liberal. To make a long story short, he was severely abused and had dyslexia and still became and Engieer In his view point, “if I can do it, then anyone can” mentality.Funny enough, my dad is become more liberal as he gets older as he is retired and volunteers at a soup kitchen/donation store and see what people go through. So to be honest, if you go through shit like that I can understand that perspective people have tbh. I always vote Democrat but I’m just rarely happy with the person I’m voting for.
Same.
Thats idiotic and naive. The status quo isnt oppressive to MOST people. Its that MOST people havent take the steps necessary to earn what they want, either from effort, talent, luck, etc. Look, somethings the status quo is bad on. I can agree to that. But not everything. And a lot of things, its neither, but the fact that society as a whole isnt "ready" to change on. And you cant expect people to be persuaded to move along a path you might prefer if you ignore their reservations completely. Its one thing to tell people that attacking people due to skin tone is bad and will be addressed harshly. Its another to say that they accept that what was "private spaces" are not so anymore, or that words and terms are just suddently going to change meaning.
@@shadowmancer99You are exactly the kind of "centrist" that is actually a conservative or more accurately a fascist PoS. You are repeating talking points fascists like Cucker Tarlson or Ben Shabibo use about how individuals are completely responsible for their life as if the material conditions that surround someone were irrelevant. Somehow you managed to watch the video and not see yourself in the people being described...smh
That centrist thinking is is same thinking of "I hate everyone, equally" as well btw.
Because actual nazis and blue haired feminists are basically the same thing when you think about it 🙄
Not True. Conservatism hates minority groups more so than the majority. As centrism is more aligned to conservatism - effectively, they perpetuate the same shit.
Watching Fiq videos at my girl crib to look smarter than I am lmao
looool
😂😂😂
America is so right leaning that "centrists" are on the right spectrum too. But even without that, centrism enables conservatism by not desiring change. The status quo is inherently conservative. Progress is inherently anti-status quo.
America is so right leaning that the democratic party is on the right. A centrist then is actually pretty far right
Even American liberals are generally in support of a variety of objectively right wing policies
So true they may as well not bother with a two party system it’s like Coke vs Diet Coke
@@celondelon351 more like diet coke vs coke zero at this point
or there just people who are invested in the current status Quo and value the current system over pushing it left or right. All of the concepts were pushing for today will later on be some centrist position in the future. Its not an issue of policy or agenda but the cost and consequence to move society from where it is today.
Every centrist I've met is a right-leaner who is afraid to be associated with all the negative aspects of that group. They may not be actively bigoted, but they certainly don't have a huge problem being adjacent to bigots.
Lol right? They are literally Republicans from 20+ years ago. As their party gets more and more right wing they just feel they are now at the center as if that is how things work.
Yep.. you're right except for one guy I know. Closing he's centrist, but sounds way more like a liberal except he likes guns lol. Even believes in gun control though. He's a good dude
@@mrcojocaru Tell him that once you go far enough left, you get your guns back. Maybe quote what Marx said about arming the proletariat. With any luck, he might even end up eventually becoming an actual leftist and not a lib.
@@mrcojocaru I'm confused abt the last bit, bc communists/socialists r pro gun. The idea of guns being a tool to fight against the government/Capitalists come from socialists/communists.
Socialism is came abt the same time the US was established, it was simply more so a utopia than the scientific theory we get from Marx and Engels, which later takes precedent over the utopian ideas.
@@jayliezambella I don't think that kind of socialism is what you see in developed countries today. Things change
"Centrist" is just a cute and pc way of calling someone a "Left Wing Republican." To me the people who participated in the 2020 primaries to pick Joe Biden as THEIR Dem nominee are Conservatives and will always be seen as such.
i dont get black conservatives either🤦🏾♂️why would u as a black person wanna KEEP THINGS THE WAY THEYVE ALWAYS BEEN🤦🏾♂️imo it will take an extremist black group to FINALLY get some change🤷🏾♂️💯🤞🏾
They're usually victims of culture war bs so they fall on the conservative side of arguments about gun control, LGBT issues, vaccines, or worst of all, race. They're the type that believe black people should pull up their pants and act right to advance in society.
Because black people are not a monolith politically. No group is.
@@woodside4life the cops that murder them sure think they are a monolith
@@woodside4life i think it went over ur head💯🤞🏾
I don't get how anyone is a conservative now days they don't have real policies is just culture war BS
It’s important for all of us to acknowledge any privileges we have; and to not act like we achieved everything by ourselves.
Because that’s being a conservative.
Plus we have to acknowledge that if we do not fight back, they could be taken from us at any time, nullifying the sacrifices made to achieve them.
The rant did NOT come off as crazy.
100% accurate facts about a crazy world.
yup!!!!
The way I see it “centrist” are just more socially acceptable conservatives, if that makes sense. It’s just a way to keep the status quo while being able to deny they’re keeping the status quo. (Comment made before watching video)
@@mmbyron And why do centrists like being centrist?
To be able to ignore societal problems, for as long as possible.
We don’t like to ignore any societal problems. We just don’t think one sides solutions to all the problems are the best solutions. Some problems would be better with left wing solutions others wouldn’t and that’s the opinion of the individual🤷🏽♂️
@@stevonwhite8933 Irony, since you're ignoring actually engaging with people, and just falling back on lazy generalizations/stereotypes.
@@gondoravalon7540 I engage *enlightened centrists* on social media, all the time.
Not the brightest bunch, if there’s issues on human rights.
Um this position makes no sense. There’s a myriad of political stances and policies and different ways at arriving at one’s positions on those stances. There are also multiple ways to solve problems.
It’s typically extreme lefties who claim centrists don’t exist because they want to create a black and white dichotomy where they are the absolute right ones about everything. It’s literally the black and white fallacy on steroids. “Either you agree with me entirely or you are as bad as the extreme opposition because only two options exist.”
just occurred to me, I think a part of the reason im so interested in what you talk about w regards to black men and masculinity is because as a (white) trans man i know my axis of oppression isnt the most extreme transphobic oppression that there is to experience, but that the way that transphobia affects me is not just how it affects trans women but less. its actually in many ways unique and specific to being a trans *man* , in a similar paradigm to how racism affects black men in a different way than black women, and not just as racism plain version. if that makes any sense. so your content in addition to being genuinely educating and growing my empathy and desire for solidarity also gives me some ideas of how to relate to and talk about transphobia as it affects me differently, to a different degree of severity, but not "just the same but less" than trans women.
This is a lot of my experience growing up. While my parents didn't have a degree, my family is filled with black women who got that degree, got their money. And while I was very much given a lot of the knowledge and history necessary to "understand" the way racism affected me and people like me, I was supposed to be on that path of being comfortable. It wasn't until my neurodivergency really hampered that progress that my politics radicalized somewhat.
I can relate to this, I'm white and came from a relatively poor home. My parents were both forced to drop out of hs. I had a good shot at college and a good life, but neurodivedgence got in the way. I didn't really understand that, though, until a few years later and that knocked me out of that centrist bs and pushed me way further left.
There's no time like the present to get involved, though. Someone has to do something
@@Pensnmusic ✊🏿
I went to Spelman and then went to two Ivy League schools for grad school. I have never in my life been more uncomfortable around black folks than I was those Ivy League black folks who went to an Ivy for undergrad
As a white college educated dude, white Ivy League under grad graduates make me uncomfortable too. A had a lot of friends in highschool that got into IVY league for undergrad abs afterwards it was hard to be friends with them, it made them weird.
@@davidradtke160 Not nearly as elite but at my university, one thing I noticed quickly was how the students who lived on campus or near campus refused to interact with those who commuted and stuck to themselves. You really saw the class divide between those who could afford to live away from their parents for university and those who couldn't.
In Québec and France, we talk about the extreme center. It's a way to express that not trying to change anything is "extremist" or very radical considering the current context. Have you ever come across the concept?
I've been having this issue with my bf for awhile. He's always wanting to play devil's advocate which to an extent is ok, but when it's on issues like racial inequality....I lack to see the need of viewing the issue from a "conservative" perspective. Like nah I don't have to always take their stances into consideration when it's just mudding the waters and preventing progress from being made. He's also very much "the issue is on both sides" like ya, I know both sides can be radicalized but thats besides the point. There are people dying while you sit around making their existence a thought experiment.
I've called him out on this and said he's being a bit of a centrist to which he's completely denied, of course. People don't like labels but if it walks like a centrist, swims like one, talks like one....it's a conservative.
Dude, just break up with the guy, why are you doing this to yourself 😭😭😭
@@diddles3383 (you not wrong but we don't say that out loud with so little information)
Is he a South Park fan?
i mean if you feel like he's can't change then you won't be able to change him. decide if you wanna deal with his views for a longer period of time
Been there, done that. Leave him fast.
I always put it like this. Mainstream American politics work off of a scale that already skews pretty far right compared to a lot of other countries. Our "left" is really more center-right. Being a centrist in this context means you're basically just an embarrassed Republican
My wife tells me that all the time. Our left wing is considered conservative based on the rest of the worlds standards
The issue is that we have a massive group of regressives in this country who think they're conservative.
They're not conserving the status quo at all, they're trying to drag us back to some horrible amalgamation of the 1950s, the 1920s, the 1950s, and even earlier. That's not conserving, that's regressing. It's the center who are conservatives, and the left who are progressives.
I know playing semantic games can be a little boring, but it's also helpful to have accurate descriptors, and calling Christian fascists "conservative" hides the nature and meaning of their actual ideology.
I understand and agree with your message. My only nitpick is calling those fascists "Christian." You can be fascist, you can be Christian, but you can't be BOTH. And they've made it clear what ideals they sided with by their action and inactions. "A dog cannot serve two masters."
@@savvivixen8490 The problem is that it's often the case that fascist leaders are associated with deities. Despite Trump being clearly someone who cares nothing for religion, despite the fact that he violates nearly every moral in the Gospels, his Evangelical followers immediately associated him with God. To them, it wasn't serving two masters, it was serving God through their cult-like devotion to Trump.
Initially, I had a tn of arguments with people about this. I talked about how the Bible is explicitly against the worship of wealth and excess, against lust and coveting, against the worship of self, and how Trump clearly had not even a passing familiarity with scripture or the message of Christ. Didn't matter. You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
... that said, Christianity has never been just one thing. As much as I'd like to think that Christianity is first and foremost the explicit messages from Christ in the Gospels, the reality is that since its inception it has been many things to many people. The first ecumenical council was in 325CE. And we currently have 45,000 denominations of Christianity globally, some only separated by tiny, inconsequential details but some separated by vast and irreconcilable differences. And they all come from the same book they all eventually have root in the same teachings, but they diverged in interpretation.
@@willschneider4616 I am aware of all this, yet continue to be disappointed with these people running around calling themselves something they are clearly NOT. Not even remotely.
@@savvivixen8490 I'm not qualified nor inclined to get into Christian gatekeeping (because I absolutely understand the "they're not true Christians" argument, as fallacious as it is logically, and why other denominations WOULDN'T want to claim the Trump koolaid guzzlers, anymore than they want to claim Jim Jones), but out of curiosity, what WOULD you call that denominational group?
Like, I don't see why a term can't be coined for that branch specifically from outside, that's kind of how Gnostics and their offshoot branches like the Marcians and Ophidians were named, right? The others gave 'em that name because of their beliefs/prophets/priests?
@Will Schneider I see no issues with your "semantics".
When I went through my centrist phase it was really just me being too insecure to risk upsetting people with my ideas so I pretended to play on both teams. Then I grew up. (sort of)
The left and right have their share of good and bad takes/stances, and this tribalism is idiotic.
I hear centrist, and my mind says apathy.
I went through that phase I'm currently in. But when you're in this phase who do you vote for?
@@susanrichardson631 whoever is closest to your principles, and viewpoints.
@@rustylidrazzah5170 I'm now a democratic socialist. None of them fit me. Not even AOC
@@susanrichardson631 good choice. I work with my local DSA people in my city. But I’m even further left than they are on some things.
The last bit of that rant is the way I've been feeling since OBAMA. Like I was at a BLM rally in 2020 and people looked at me like I was STUPID when I said "All the things y'all hate Trump for is the SAME shit Obama was doin but either y'all didn't notice or care. Now that Trump is just doing it LOUDLY, y'all wanna give a damn."
It's disingenuous to act like Obama was just as bad as Trump. He wasn't.
I don’t remember Obama doing anything remotely close to what Trump was doing when in power, I must have missed that.
Since Trump I have evolved on Obama being too conservative, I think Obama was lucky to make it out alive. Knowing what I know now about the American people’s comfort level with white supremacy and inability to see through or resist reactionary backlash. I think of MLK and other black leaders in this country and recognize that it isn’t fair to expect him to be bold and make big changes because he probably wouldn’t have made it out alive. Him just surviving without some silly impeachment or a right wing nut job assassination was a miracle and probably only happened because he purposely avoided angering the white supremacists
@@terrystevens3998 The stat they never repeat (I heard it once and once only from Phil Mudd), six months in office, Obama had more assassination attempts and credible death threats, than W. Bush in his eight years and George W had more than all the other Presidents combined.
You look at his Presidency with that in mind and it underscores completely what you just posted.
Lol the responses to your comment are proving a point F.D made about Obama. The rose colored glasses black folks still have for that man to dive in front of these rhetorical bullets whenever he receives criticism is WILD! The point is that some of the SAME political moves made under Trump that we paled at the sight of were going on under Obama as well. That’s not saying Trump and Obama are the same at all just that they both uphold the same status quo because of their privilege and to be outraged at kids in cages under Trump but not Obama is hypocritical.
@@Social_Pugatory every president we have ever had upheld that same status quo, even our “change” presidents worked to uphold capitalism and social norms, when they did make change it was to keep the status quo going.
Been thinking for a long time that Centrists are basically conservatives in the literal sense of the word. They may pay lip services to socially liberal, or social democrat ideas, but if anyone ever comes up with even a moderate plan to change things for the sake of the marginalised, centrists always dismiss it as “extreme left”. The real aim of centrists seems to be keeping the status quo
1. You misrepresented what centrism is.
2. You misrepresented Jordan Peterson’s ideas & talking points.
3. You swear conservatives are closed minded… yet you go out of your way to misrepresent the points made by anyone who doesn’t subscribe to your predetermined set of ideals just so you don’t have to give them any credence. That’s true closed mindedness.
Centrist just means republican or capitalist. My ultra-conservative family don't get why I refer to Biden as a damn republican.
For real. I mean Biden is only a democrat by the hair on his chinny chin chin lol. I don't know why ultra-conservative people act like he's so progressive. At most he's slightly left from center.
I really appreciated your thoughts here. I am left of lib and it can be challenging to discuss and understand all of the voices. Especially since, as you said, liberal is a very different thing in the states than it is across the pond in any direction. I knew Obama was no lib before he came into office, when conservatives were saying he was the most leftist senator in the senate. lolz. And I did adore him for so many other reasons. And. He wasn't even in office yet after he won the presidency, before he and his admin began messaging against the left... right on time. His cabinet picks foreshadowed early. He chose so many people from Clinton era politics. It was a sadness to see this rolling forward. We can't discuss classism in this nation and because of this the public good is hard to champion. Thanks.
"'Extreme' is already where we are."
Man, that sums up my thoughts precisely.
As a latin american, it is refreshing to see united statians finally understanding that their bipartisan system is all right-wing
I won't lie, these centrist tendencies you had(have?) rubbed me the wrong way when I started watching you, but I'm genuinely impressed by the self reflection. These are some of the hardest things to admit I think.
I'm still learning about this stuff. What centrist tendencies have you noticed? Any of his past videos that stand out to you?
@@nkopanelesedilebona9227 Hmmm. I suppose mainly the things mentioned here. The dismissal of class as a major component in politics and privilege.
Why would you let someone else’s political beliefs affect you
@@00mongoose the dismissal of class as a major component of politics and privilege isn’t centrist; it’s conservative
@@lucre113 it's both! Shocking to a centrist who doesn't actually know what the fuck they're talking about, I know.
If you see a bully beating up a kid and you say "I'll remain neutral: I'm gotta let the two of you settle this". The bullied kid will see you as being on the same side as the bully.
Terrible analogy
@@venicec3310 how so?
@@venicec3310 Yeah, it's an extremely accurate one.
I don’t think you understand what a centrist means. Most centrists just don’t like be divided by politics and would prefer to have both political parties to have a middle ground. Comparing them to bystanders is unjust and bias analysis of what they are.
Dumb comparison
Thank you thank you thank you! I have been saying for years, there is no left wing when it comes to Democrats and Republicans they are both right wing, the former centre right and the latter right wing to far right. Both are conservative in nature which is why it was easy for them to switch platforms over a century ago and can do so again because their rhetoric is surprisingly similar, it’s like Coke versus Diet Coke.
Your male privledge is within the bounds of your experince as a Black man.
My white privledge is within the bounds of a white trans-woman.
My whiteness, and other privledges carries me through a lot. Just having a family that didnt kick me out os a MAJOR privledge, for our community. But it wont get me through everything. And it may help me navigate other stuff way easier. Just as your male privledges may help you. But, your racialization makes you face shit I just never will.
Our privledges come in the boxes of our "othering." In some ways, they are tethered together.
the perpetual shock at miseducation and deception of the American lifestyle is exhausting, perhaps even dogmatic.
This whole stream was lit with the Kavernacle. Most centrists never seemed that objective to me. They usually would say "I disagree with both sides buttttttttttttt" and they would lose my interest then and there.
Common misconception: centrist doesn't mean you try to choose the neutral position on every issue. Political ideologies are a spectrum. Each issue has a political ideology it aligns with. So if you're pro choice, that puts you towards the left, if you're pro life, that puts you towards the right. But neither of those issues make you a lefty or a righty on their own, because there are a multitude of issues. People who call themselves lefty's or righty's tend to agree almost entirely with one side of every issues viewpoints (or more likely they don't even look at the issues besides a key handful that appeal to them and design their entire political identity based off those key issues.) A centrist is born because their views on certain issues don't always align with one political party. I consider myself a centrist because I have very progressive views and some conservative views. I call myself a left leaning centrist because the majority of my opinions do align with the left, but there are some things I am more closely aligned with the right on. As a centrist, left leaning or not, it is typical to get hate from both sides. The left doesn't think you're left enough, the right doesn't think you're right enough. But that's fine, because centrists think people who identify with political parties and always vote down party lines are brainwashed and picking their favorite sports team rather than the best candidate to handle whatever major problems need to be handled in an area. So continue hating on centrists, we don't care, and continue ruining our country by voting for your favorite team, we'll be there to push the vote to whatever side deserves the win more. Just remember the vast majority of Americans identify as independent. Vote third party.
The problem with this, is that it's not how policy gets enacted. No matter if you're picking and choosing issues from one side or the other, every vote you make is a vote for a party's ENTIRE platform. You don't get to control how they vote after they're in office, and generally speaking, only party solidarity actually gets anything passed. You can't be like 'I voted for this guy because he's fiscally conservative, but I support abortion rights personally', because by voting in a conservative, you INHERENTLY weaken the position of abortion rights. No vote is a vote on a single issue. Every time you vote a Republican into office, you strengthen the entire Republican platform. Every time you vote a Democrat into office, you strengthen the entire Democratic platform. Even if you vote for an independent candidate, that's a vote for the incumbent platform because it doesn't cause a change in party power. This is the reality of the two-party system. Centrism may not be taking neutral positions on individual issues, but it IS taking a pro-status quo position on power dynamics. Whether or not you want to identify as Republican or Democrat, EVERY vote you make benefits one of those two parties by diluting the majority, changing it, or filling a seat without changing it. This will be true as long as the two-party system enforces a need for party solidarity to pass bills.
@@GhostedJackal Well there are many problems with that, but most of them are just two party system woes. I think so many people want to change the two party system, but it just keeps coming back to that Simpsons episode where the aliens disguise themselves and run for president, they get unmasked before the election and say, "what're ya gonna do, vote third party and throw away your vote?!" Like, yes! Vote third party, throw away your vote! If everyone who wants change did this third parties would start winning, they're more popular than ever. It's not even politicians that have us trapped in this two party system, it's psychology. Literally just vote third party, that's all you gotta do. Don't think it might be throwing away your vote. Is it throwing away your vote to vote for a Democrat when the Republican wins? Cuz if not, why is it throwing away your vote if your third party candidate doesn't win?
Sorry that was a little ranty, but I also disagree with what you're saying. Right now abortion is a hot button issue, so, sure, I can agree that voting in a Republican supports the anti-abortion agenda. But in the blink of an eye a new issue will be the hot button issue, just like before abortion there was some other issue you HAD to vote for the party you agree with if you want it handled properly. But if we've learned anything in the past year, it's that laws can be changed when you get the people you want in power. You gotta think long term to have any chance of actually playing the game instead of getting played by it. The longer these two parties sit in power the more time they have to make it harder and harder to vote for something besides them. It's not too late, we just gotta get out of our own heads.
@@fisharepeopletoo9653 Except I never said voting third party was 'throwing away your vote'. I said it was affirmatively voting status quo. This IS the reality of the two-party system. It just is. If you're not swinging the needle left or right, you're preserving where it already is. You think that as a leftist, I LIKE Biden? No. However, as I said, you never vote for people in a two-party system, you vote for a platform in its entirety. It isn't JUST that abortion is relevant now, it's that every time you vote Republican you cannot avoid strengthening the entire platform they run on, whether it be crusading against abortion rights or oppressing minorities, or whatever it may be at the time. You cannot separate the good and the bad from a platform. You just get the entire platform. I don't like Biden. I don't like Hillary. I'm increasingly lukewarm on Bernie, even. However, I recognize that the highest chance I have at affecting politics in the way I'd actually prefer to is to install Democrats over Republicans or even over 3rd party candidates. This isn't because I agree with them more than any other party, it's because the two-party system favors installed power and party solidarity. If we had a multi-party system, I could get behind the idea of voting for particular people who most closely represent your ideals without regard to party affiliation, but that's simply not the reality of America. This IS thinking long term. The more actual leftists who force their way under the Democratic umbrella, the more the Democrats have to structure their platform around those leftists to achieve the solidarity needed to pass bills, and without that solidarity, ALL democrats lose out by seeming impotent, and they know this. This is exactly the same method that the far-right used to infiltrate the Republican party, and it WORKS.
@@GhostedJackal That's why my vote is to change the status quo. Voting for either of the two parties is actually keeping the status quo and refusing to move the needle. We need more options and more representation. We need to make the parties fear for their seats, maybe then they'll actually start working for the people. And if not, then we keep voting in the third party, and maybe a fourth and fifth. I'm done with this farce of a system, and no amount of doom talk is going to make me buy back in. We're doomed if we don't change things, I agree with that whole heartedly, I just think the road to change is to do something different, not the same crap we've been doing for decades that got us into this mess to begin with. Do you know what the definition of insanity is?
@@fisharepeopletoo9653 This is very poetic talk, but it's not grounded in reality. No matter how sick you are of Democrats and Republicans, it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE for more than two parties to hold meaningful power in the US due to the way our electoral system is set up. Our political system does not have the means to support multiparty functionality and it's not just something you can wish into existence. This leads back to the reality I already described: Every vote you make, whether it's for a Democrat, a Republican, or an independent, strengthens one of the former two parties. If an independent replaces a democrat, it functionally weakens the democratic party without actually giving more power to independents, because on a functional level, independents will NEED to build bridges with one party over another to achieve the solidarity needed to pass bills.
This is the thing you seem to keep ignoring. Without voting power, nothing gets passed. Without coalitions, there is no voting power. Without aligning yourself with one party or another, there are no coalitions. The act of building coalitions strengthens whatever group is doing it by providing more consistent voting power to issues. There is no such thing as an elected representative that doesn't strengthen one of the two main parties and weaken the other.
The limitations of centrism is that it will always act in service to the Norm, where whoever controls the status quo will control the centrist gaze. This is what people mean when they say centrists are conservatives who haven't registered yet.
(Side Note: Annoys me when ppl do the both-sides thing but specifically "I seek to criticize authoritarianism in BOTH parties", has this weird conceit to it where it almost universally turns into some excuse about misgendering where its pretty obvious there's something about the departure from heteronormativity that they haven't really reconciled with the fact that it makes them uncomfortable. Always wondered what the right way to handle that is.)
Make them as uncomfortable as possible whenever possible
A straw man at best lol As a centrist I don’t believe in “maintaining the norm” 🤦🏽♂️ It’s just that change needs to be carefully made. Not all progress is good progress, but progress must be made regardless.
The Centrist gaze? 😂😂😂 And this is why we need individualism on some level. Not every centrist thinks the same. Their beliefs are solely those of the individual therefore can’t be a certain gaze targeted towards a centrist audience.
@@camquest6108 Who's "they"? You can't criticize a strawman with a strawman.
@@camquest6108
1. I didn't say you "believed" in the status quo. I'll assume that was just a misunderstanding. You don't have to support maintaining the norm in order to act in service to it. Cite Appeasement Theory.
2. I never argued all centrists act the same. I just recognize that centrists aren't as immune to groupthink as many seem to think. "Their beliefs are solely those of the individual", as if ideas come out of a vacuum? Really? Those thoughts didn't just fall out of the sky, and they certainly aren't immune to the same pitfalls as the left or right. Citing that you're not a monolith doesn't exempt your principle pipelines of thought from criticism.
@@guhrid4893 They as in Centrists. I said that each and every centrist may have different opinions on different subjects than others do, and everyone actually does rip each others heads off about it. Or at least that's been my experience.
Yeah looking back, before I realized I was trans, bi, and autistic (I had been diagnosed but downplayed it), I was your cishet white male, and like so much of my politics up until I was 21 and realized I was bi and trans was pushing back at shit and reifying cisheteropatriarchal white supremacy. So basically I was your typical vaguely progressive white social democrat. I don't need to say more on that lmao.
And like especially for leftist white supremacy it took me listening to white voices and experiencing the transmisogyny embedded white supremacy to properly try and decenter myself on my whiteness. One thing I still need to do is talk the talk more on that. That's like been something I've been trying to keep that in mind when like trying to build support networks with other trans people here in Texas.
(not meaning for any of this to come off as self congratulatory or whatever. Idk sometimes that's hard to discern with autism)
As someone with a trans buddy in Texas, shout outs to you for trying to build support networks! (especially given the sheer size of that place)
Don't get centrists at all unless you think we live in a world perfect for you or just privileged. Centrism got us the 3/5th compromise between slavery and abolition.
do you think thats a win for centrism? (not a real political philosophy btw)
because its not.
Also THANK YOU for pointing out that the status quo is already extreme. Absolutely 1000% correct, but people want to maintain comfort
To me anyone who says they're a centrist they're just conservatives. At least that's what they usually turn out to be
Someone who is right wing, pushes the idea that they are centrist so they can normalize extreme right wing ideas. It's a very simple, and very old technique.
Not all the time though. Looking through this comments section, it seems like the word centrism is being used in multiple different ways. I’d say I feel like I’m “centrist” because Im more or far to the left on some issues and more right leaning on other issues. In reality though I’m probably more of a moderate Democrat but I have a hard time saying that because I hate all the PC cancel culture bullshit rhetoric on the far left. What pisses me off about American politics is this whole “you’re with me or against me attitude” that both sides have adopted. Once in a blue moon you’ll see some bipartisan agreement on smaller issues but when it comes to the big issues no one will compromise. Sometimes it just seems like both sides will ostracize and hate you if you don’t fall left or right on every single issue out there.
@@baseballpimp1910 dont even try it dude. It is normal when you are in one side to label everybody as your opposition, i love this guy channel but he doesnt have real external perspective for i can see, but idk i am not american.
@@iurivanastacio3081 The US have literal neon4z!s on their right and the (still US) right's president legit endorsed a neon4z! march. There's your perspective.
@@neoqwertylol
People who like to proclaim themselves centrist are broadcasting to the world that they are 'reasonable' and not a 'wild-eyed extremist'. They do this without so much a clear understanding of modern issues and the spectrum of solutions which would put you in either a conservative, moderate or progressive camp, but they embrace the centrism label because they have been conditioned to fear the radical label and they fear being perceived as being too aligned with the rightwing or leftwing and all the alienation it may entail. Often times 'centrists' have a shallow understanding of the issues and there are some issues where you cannot split-the-difference between solutions, you either are for something or against. These 'centrists' may actually be either conservative or progressive based on their internal preference to solutions OR even have a shallow understanding of the issues themselves, but their whole focus is wrapping themselves in the reflexive legitimacy of moderation and centrism; which shows they are more concerned about how others perceive them rather their actual positions on issues. I personally don't care about this radical label. Radical is in the eye of the beholder. Martin Luther King said it best: “When you are right, you cannot be too radical; When you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative.”
very well said. i think it is also great to challenge this conceit of "being radical on any issue is bad" by pointing out that supporting the status quo of racist, mass murdering, colonial, carceral states is actually pretty radically right wing and anti humanist from many perspectives, including some very traditional ones.
@@deaconlasagna8570 of course which system is all of those and to what extent are debatable. Which is where centrists come in. They approach it with and open but cautious mind, prioritizing truth, facts and solutions, over extremist, exaggerated and all to often ignorant far left/right positions
@@redrkstone What motivates that caution? It is not a given that it is mere prudence, it can also be a desire to maintain a perceived beneficial institution. Such caution could also signify an understanding lacking the true impact of said policy or institution on negatively impacted parties. Such caution could also be a simple fear of dramatic change in the social order. You mention that centrists come in prioritizing truth facts and solutions, sometimes truth and the facts lead you to a place that given current ideological litmus tests, forces you into one camp versus the other. People do not see your method at arriving at a preferred solution, they see the result of your process and either identify with you or view you as an enemy. Bottom line, do not be too enamored with this term centrist. It means very little and is mostly meant to broadcast a rational approach. All that matters in this debate is what are your solutions, and is there a way for society to test your solution to see if it solves a problem or not.
@@RiyazGuerra solutions are best found with intelligent, informed and thorough consideration. Good ideas must be found and implemented. Extremists are rarely good at this. Extremists are often close minded, intolerant, and violent.
@@redrkstone It is a given there will be some extremists who are closed minded, intolerant and violent. Let us agree to condemn such individuals while still acknowledging the term extremist is a very subjective term and not an objective one. In a more rational society there could be an objective description of an extremist, but in our world this term is thrown around irresponsibly and serves as mostly projection with respect to the great disagreement with another's goals and methods. I submit that it would be logical fallacy that rationality, intelligent assessment of the facts are restricted to the 'centrist' or 'moderate'. There are individuals whose goals and commitment to said goals are so different compared to conventional political goals they earn the unfortunate title of extremist in the judgement of many. In reality they have used facts and reason, guided by a goal or perceived threat to arrive at a solution for a problem dealt with very differently in modern society. If modern society is poorly addressing a social ill, a proposed remedy to correct it, reflective of the gross neglect by modern society, will be perceived as radical or extreme. It is unavoidable. All of what I said is NOT a defense of all PERCEIVED radicalism or extremism, it's a cautionary note to not let these labels lead you to dismiss another with a different perspective. Too often these labels are a barrier to understanding.
Haven't even watched the video, but yes. Thank you for this vid. No such thing as a "centrist" in fact MLK said that the "moderate democrat" was worse than an outright racist republican because they ALSO serve as gatekeepers because they ALSO serve that doctrine. They on the same time bruh.
I also come from a similarly privileged black home, college graduate parents, suburb school with a healthy black population as to not be a "fly in the milk". I was fortunate to have other black nerds in my highschool many of which I'm still friends with to this day. We often joke that we are a group of token black kids that banded together.
My parents often pushed me and my siblings to do better than they did. As I'm now expecting my first child and trying to do just that, it's sobering how quickly my progressive inclinations subside when seeking any advantage. In terms of schooling in my area it looks like there is no step up from what my parents afforded me and even those gains are eroding. It's as if my upbringing is the best my child can expect. Unless I subject them to being the sole black child in a better district.
Many black people with a little elevation are terrified of falling. The forces working against them are often more tangible than the ghosts of aggrieved whites. I know it doesn't justify becoming that which we fear, But it's a constant struggle....
I think "things are already extreme" might be one of the most important things I've ever heard
I do think it's possible to come from or operate within a position of privilege while still fighting against the status quo. All that's required is a capacity for genuine empathy, which sadly seems to be in short supply, especially among "centrists."
This. Americans are unique in that they have to have something bad happen to them personally in order for their "empathy muscle" to be activated. This is not so much the case in the rest of the developed world.
@@jnyerere I mean, some people are like that even outside of America. But most are actually capable of genuine empathy and usually keep the extremistss at bay.
@@jnyerere I don’t think this is an American thing, this is a colonizer thing. The rhetoric that Europe is somehow better is tired
@@jnyerere I live in Switzerland, a country with a heavy right wing bias. Policies which are bad for poor people are in pretty good standing here, and institutionalized xenophobia is growing. Whether the phenomenon you're describing works exactly as you described it or not, the general phenomenon you seem to be noticing exists here as well.I don't think this is an "American" thing. I suspect it's actually everywhere, and not just restricted to certain parts of the world.
In my personal opinion identifying as either strictly liberal or conservative is limiting. You have to be willing to challenge your beliefs on all topics, not just the ones you agree with.
Yes you do! And both sides will fucking *HATE* you for it!
Welcome to Radical Centrism my friend. Where we always vie for the best possible solution to each individual problem regardless of party lines or where that particular solution might fall on the political compass! The only remotely reasonable political ideology. Though I personally view it as less of an ideology and really just as common sense. Every problem deserves its best solution, and anything less (especially in the name of an ideology) should be viewed as unacceptable.
To think that the best solution to every problem is always going to lie on one side of the political spectrum is a narcissist’s delusion.
So basically you guys in the comment section are on some
“If you’re not with us you’re against us type shit” 😒
Yes absolutely this shit is too important bro
Canada is the same way.
Our Liberal party is just less conservative. Conservative, just less.
It is because of neoliberalism economics and every western country that has this economic system really both parties are the same thing and really can’t govern in any other way because of treaties and economics
The Deprogram had an episode about centrists and the ideology behind not having an ideology. Highly recommend it. Second Thought's podcast btw (tho I dont think he was in the episode).
"If you're not with us, you're against us" sounds pretty extreme
But they're so tolerant
@@armyofuno8196 Sarcasm, right? Just confirming
@@philosopherkingzant2037 sarcasm
Yeah, by the definition of politics, if you don't agree, you're opposed. I don't see the dunk here, other than a weak defense of conservatism as somehow the natural state of being.
@@wesleystreet Conservatives are more live-and-let-live type of people
2:00 I appreciate this kernel of nuance. That "fly in the milk" experience is often treated like a blanket privilege by Black people from large Black communities. But there is something to be said about growing up without the support and affirmation of a black community, of black teachers, of black friends, etc. Etc. Lots of Black folks from the big cities think they and their communities are the pinnacle of Blackness, and those of us in the rest of the country / world are basically subBlack
as I was about to disagree... I realized that since you're american, what YOU view as "left" or "right" is pretty skewed. I whole heartledly disagree that there is no such thing as a "centrist" though. A "centrist" is someone who isn't clearly left or right. They have some left leaning views and some right leaning views. Cause this is the problem with the 'left'.. they tend to view things as "either you're 100% left or your 'right', therefore you're 'conservative'" ... even if your views are 90-95% left. It's like the one drop rule but for political leaning.
Earned a subscriber here dude, for whatever that's worth. Fight the good fight man. Fuck Jordan Peterson. I had a boss who wouldn't stfu about him and Joe Rogan and I just had to listen to it.
Proof the meritocracy doesn’t exist.
I get holding on to that stuff, even if you want to fight for something better.
I am trans, and I should know better.
But it's easy to fall into the trap.
Centrism = ppl that are not bothered by what's happening. And will say and do anything to avoid getting in any arguements. Makes them disingenuous and unreliable.
*Centrism = ppl that are not bothered by what's happening.*
ummmm....That's not really a centrist thing. It's a human thing.
I do feel like this is a relatively american take, but there are parts of it that apply to other places as well.
I don't know, from my experience, telling "Centrist" that things are "Already Extreme" is kind of like pulling back the curtain, because a lot of them already know, but are trying to "Think Positive" (As in they will close the curtain back if they can, even as they make some acknowledgements). And that kind of sucks because I don't want to be a "Debbie Downer"... but it's important to know that it's not really an "Extreme on the Left", like those people exist, but they have almost 0 voice presence in society, and the real reason we are seeing "Growing Extremes" is because the problems of Reality are becoming much more "Extreme", we really are moving past "Extreme" on many issues.
So many say, "Protest the way I'm saying you should protest, what you're doing is too radical." What they're really saying is, "Protest in a way that I'm comfortable with, that lets me keep ignoring you."
I know people who describe themselves as moderate/centrist but lean left (at least socially). I think some people just use the term because the don't like the divisiveness of politics. And others use it like Fiq said, to hide their bad views. I also have a Canadian view point which is a more liberal culture in general.
Saying you’re a centrist bc you don’t like the divisiveness of politics wouldnt make that much sense tbh? When one side is denying someone’s rights the other would be rightfully angry. It sounds like those (privileged) people that think we should all get along even though we all have different morals and views.
@@HerbBrid3 see, youre the type of people those “privileged” people want to avoid. Youre using a political party as a moral standard and ofc people arent comfortable with that. As long as politics is being painted as us against them theyre killing us and taking everything from us “War” instead of a tool used to examine observe asses and rebuild change and correct broken systems people are going to continue to avoid politics. Privileged shouldnt be thrown around as a insult. Oppressor shouldnt used to paint a common enemy. These are just oversimplifying, vague virtue signals used by people to make a quick point of complex issues. media at large is already prone to taking the most extreme of extremes and runningit to the ground, until everyones desensitized. Until the next extreme thing happens. These speaking point do more harm than good.
@@kidawesomeness123 I think both political parties aren’t that great, but one is objectively worse than the other. Where you stand politically goes along with where you stand morally, and you can’t separate the two. Be uncomfortable all you want but it is what it is. When one side thinks you don’t deserve to exist then yeah, you’d be mad, rightfully. For someone who’s privileged, all these issues are just hypotheticals for them, they can easily get along with someone who has a different set of morals and opinions. If you’re not gay, poc, disabled etc, you wouldn’t care as much about being friends with homophobes, racist and ableists. That is because you’re privileged enough to not have to deal with those issues and not be discriminated against by those people.
You can’t avoid politics, it’s everywhere and impacts everyone. Especially minorities.
@Mohlakala Tleane What? If someone being mad about their rights being taken away or you not liking certain people in that oppressed group annoys you so much to where you don’t want to fight for them then you just didn’t care..Be fr.
No one has to kiss up to you or be super nice so you can fight with them on these issues, you either care or you don’t.
@@kidawesomeness123 I never even said it was an insult. If you’re privileged you’re privileged, you’re the one taking it that way. The word privileged has an actual meaning to it, it’s not just some insult. In my last comment I literally explained why that would be privileged and that went over your head apparently.
And you say politics have nothing to do with morals but thats factually wrong theres no debate there. One side constantly passes laws that hurt trans children, and I think that HEAVILY shows where their morals are at. It shows the morals of the people who pass the laws and the people who support them. I can go on and on about how politics have to do with morals, but I assumed that would’ve been obvious?
I always want to ask a centrist 'exactly what is the center point between every person has a fundamental right to exist and be safe and some people don't?' I'm still learning, I still say dumb shit (I think I've even said dumb shit under your videos but I won't delete it because that seems dishonest and it wasn't hateful, just dumb) but hopefully I can drag some of my centrist acquaintances with me in the learning and doing to ensure that first point 'every person has a fundamental right to exist and be safe' .
there isnt a center point to that. thats a straw man argument.
To say that all centrists beleive that is kind of ridiculous.
A centrist is someone who doesnt mesh with either side of the political spectrum but that doesnt mean they stand in the middle with every issue.
Thats like saying "I feel like asking people on the left why they hate families and want white men to die horrible deaths"
they obviously dont all think that, thats asking a question based on the perception of people from the outside. Its not the point anyone is trying to make.
@@madmintentertainment6268 I would be inclined to agree with you, IF the right wasn't Actively seeking to remove rights from people and degrade certain peoples position in society to sub-human. Right now in the current political climate the say your a centrist is to refuse to take a stand against actual fascism and authoritarianism. It may have been at some point that a centrist represented a center-point in politics, but with the right actively dragging the Overton window to the extreme right centrist can either join the left or be moved to the right. The idea that ALL people deserve respect and access to the basic necessities of life is not one that really has a good counter argument, you can not like the tactics, or the vitriol of how its being expressed, that is valid, many of us where raised to be polite, and the right is using that discomfort with conflict to silence 'centrists' into letting them hurt people. The actual point is still either true or not, unfortunately those are the points on the political spectrum at the moment all people are people, or they are not, there is no center point to that.
@@madmintentertainment6268 You can’t be a leftist, and have people based on color or gender.
Thus the problems on the left, for wanting EXTREME tolerance, but yeah you strawmanned a nonexistent straw man…
@@victoriajankowski1197 I agreed with that. However to say that the entire left is only fighting for the equality and freedom of all people is wrong.
Especially when you see how a huge number on leftists on twitter sometimes call for genocide against certain groups of people.
Not wanting to stand on the left and not wanting to stand on the right makes sense when you realise that both sides ESPECIALLY in american politics just want different kinds of authoritarianism. One is just better at pretending otherwise and tries to appeal to peoples morality.
@@madmintentertainment6268 I avoid twitter like the plague, call me a luddite I guess I value my mental health over exposure to what ever that mess is. I do honestly understand the two wings of the same bird thing, which is why I identify as left not liberal, I think one could meaningfully argue that there are two very different political discussions happening in the United states, and that the similarity of verbiage creates confusion, there is the left/right republican/democrat conversation, and the left/right progressives/conservative authoritarian conversation. I can only speak to my position, and my original post was intended to prompt others to speak to theirs. My position as a left leaning progressive is that every person has a fundamental right to exist with dignity and autonomy and have meaningful access to the necessities of life. Authoritarianism in any sense is completely at odds with those ideals. I don't have all the answers to how we achieve the inherent goals of my position but I do what I can where I am at and I continue to seek education from a variety of perspectives.
in response to the comments and (kind of) this video I think the belief that "there is no centrist" comes from the genuine belief that the left wing is the only right way to be with no admission to any fault on the left.
"We are pure! the enemy is bad"
"anyone who is not with us is the enemy!"
Idk man, maybe i beleive that the status quo should be challenged, capitalism is failing and equality of opportunity should be for all. But I also think people should be allowed to say whatever they want and do whatever they want as long as they arent actively hurting anyone?
Maybe I dont think white men are the devil? Maybe I want to talk about mens issues or other things that the left dont wanna talk about?
I can fight racism and also criticise the left.
I think "anyone who doesnt agree with this line of politics completely is my enemy or uneducated" is an easy and ,to be frank, cowardly way of viewing things.
Respect and all that, but this aint helping division chief. Its gearing up for war, and none of you keyboard warriors know what that means.
Those are all leftist issues. Not everyone who calls themselves a leftist embodies them, but look at a political spectrum chart and show me where it has thinking white men are the devil on the left. Its not a political position that is particularly leftist.
Cough cough, you're kind of doing the same thing you accuse the left of doing. Also may I introduce to you: r/MensLib which is lefty, feminist, inclusive, and addresses mens' issues. And about the only place I found that wasn't mired in the manosphere manhood-gatekeeping and misogyny outside of youtube.
even so called "democratic socialists" who favor themselves centrists, always lean right especially when it comes to the matter of maintaining capitalism.
Were do you put the person that leans left on certain issues but right for others?
@@justenough215 politically confused. And usually they're just moderate rights coopting very minimal left talking points
@@kmfdm5 Not a charitable nor a empathetic take here
@@FireTrainer92 complain to someone who gives a fuck
@@kmfdm5 this misses a lot of nuances on political opinions.
For example someone could be anti abortion because they think it’s murder but also be a straight up maoist.
Someone can support UBI but also not want to tax corporations above 50%
A lot of positions aren’t contradictory or confused at all. And this is often what people mean by centrists. Ideas that aren’t inherently left or right that are merely associated
The concept of "centrism" reflects an ignorance of how far-right mainstream American politics are.
Yo thanks for the shout out family.
The problem is that most people are pretty complex. You can try to shove people into simple political categories, but it's a misnomer. The centrism hate is totally unnustified bc most ppl aren't 100 percent one thing, and it's unproductive.
Just because you have a hard time accepting the nuance of individuals' politics does not make centrism any less valid.
As a European I have to disagree. Thanks to the US and the Internet people are drifting more towards to extreme ends of politics but until not too long ago we used to have nuanced politics.
I am definitely centrist. I dislike the left and the right. I don’t like the left for acting like any notion that they’ve just come up with like 10 minutes ago is to be accepted as the new standard or else you’re a whatever-phobe or a bigot. I dislike the right for their fear and rejection of the unknown. I dislike the left for forcing social sciences onto people as if they were actual hard science (which they aren’t). I dislike the right for their tendency towards fascism. I dislike the left for being hysterical and I dislike the right for being smug. I dislike both for thinking that they are morally superior. I hate both for their extremism. I dislike both because of their actual scientific ignorance and I dislike them for so confidently making claims about science while being so damn oblivious. I dislike both for so many reasons and on almost any political issue they just make me wonder if all of politics isn’t just a giant sh** show designed to make people take extreme irrational stances on either side of any argument.
I am neither 100% pro abortion, nor am I for an absolute ban. I welcome progress and multiculturalism but I do think there is value in conserving culture and religion. I don’t think that many public “right wing” figures are actually right wing, not to mention fascistic. Put Joe Rogan in an airplane or a time machine to go to any non-western (and even some western) country or like 15 years into the past and you have a freaking leftie-left-hippie. Jordan Peterson on the hand is an actual crypto-nazi which almost no one the left or the right actually gets.
I am a centrist, not because I am actually a closet righty, or a closet leftie and just ashamed of either side, I am ashamed of both sides. I am a centrist, not because I don’t want to take a stance but because life is not just black and white and things aren’t mostly that simple or only have two completely opposing solutions. I am a centrist, not because I don’t care about people but precisely because I care for people and I don’t think it helps society if we’re completely polarized and hateful.
Truth!! Elie Mystal said the same thing in is "Allow Me To Retort" book.
I think you misunderstand what centrism means. I am a centrist myself and what it means for me is that I refuse to automatically affirm the arguments or beliefs posited by either the left or the right. I will CONSIDER the inherent logic and evidence presented by both sides equally, and will then take a position on each individual issue based on who did so the most effectively. So, at different points in time my views seem to have swayed quite far left, but then as other issues have arisen I seem to go more to the right. Because both the far left and far right are vulnerable to taking ideological stances at times and can be blind to their own hypocrisy. I want to remain free to criticise bad ideas no matter where they come from, rather than feeling predisposed to one world view on all issues simply because they have some good points to make on a few other topics. Centrism is just a byword for critical thinking. To demonise it is quite suspicious.
I'm centrist. I believe in logic, critical thinking and reasoning. Also atheist so religion doesn't fuel me. Only Stats and Data do.
I don't affiliate with any party I think both sides have good and bad qualities and I feel in my experience siding with either side you "welcome" the worst of that party cuz a lot of these mfs that democrat or Republican won't listen to truth only to what can push they party forward shits like Game of Thrones fr🤣 like I'mma always be team empathy and rational
People are really not aware of how many things need to change and how much work it will take to change these things. Like you said alot of things are already at an extreme level so extreme change is necessary
What's that saying "Scratch a liberal/centrist and a fascist bleeds.". Obama's legacy is going to be a very interesting one to look back and study in the next twenty years. I'm hoping it won't be as bad a Reagan. But wouldn't be surprised if it's close to as bad as Reagan.
Jordan Peterson does not teach men that they are oppressed. He tells not to play the oppression game.
Everyone I know who has ever identified as a “centrist” has always been extremely right wing. Like, some of the most racist, sexist, homophobic, islamophobic, transphobic, etc people I have ever had the displeasure of knowing
The toughest part of being a centrist is that both wings see you as the other.
Not everyone is far-left like you and your followers. Cope. 🤷
Its hard for some people to wrap their mind around, but, if one finds themselves feeling as though the left and the right are nothing more than bizarro versions of one another, and that the extremist ends of both sides feel rather mentally ill, and comes to conclusion that, they would prefer a party with the values that both sides share; and then they call themselves a centrist... That's really not that outrageous or ridiculous or extreme. It comes off as pretentious to anyone else, but I don't even think anyone truly finds it pretentious no matter how loud they scream that centrism is nonsense, at the end of the day; "moderation is the key" is a good idea to apply to politics, and the idea that someone would even think that centrism is a good idea; it infuriates people much like communism infuriates right wingers. But centrism infuriates communists too. The point isn't to infuriate anyone though, the thought patterns of a centrist are just too extreme for extremists, and all they can do is say "nobody really believes in centrism; they're just trying to be edgy" I repeat, to oppose centrism as far to consider centrists delusional; is the only defense a liberal/conservative has against a centrist. A centrist can vote red, blue, green, or independent and still be a centrist. This is not up for debate. An argument against a balanced scale is insanity.
I think there’s a such thing as a centrist but it definitely ain’t the people we call centrists lol
You know that horrible ad that RUclips puts above the comments? I’ve got a t*m p**l ad in this one. I hate youtube!
If yall had quit eating at Chick-fil-a we would still have abortion rights...
Centrism is just another word for Right wing conservatism. It's a part of the right wing spectrum, and always has been.
Within the political system centrism is defined by how far right or left the system is
False dilemma fallacy much mate?
Thank you thank you for having these conversations and sharing them. Great stuff as always.
Have you ever noticed how all "centrists" tend to be Rich?
I think you misunderstand centrism, it's not about hearing out both sides equally, or trying to sit on the fence, it's about the fact that there are MANY people who agree with conservative ideas AND progressive ones, and these people don't feel represented by either party. It's more of an issues by issue thing, people can commit to ideas, it's just they don't fit as neatly into the boxes others try to put them in.
Love seeing you lot cry about someone thinking for themselves and agreeing with both sides on different issues, something leftists seem to be inherently incapable of doing.
The most frustrating political argument I ever had was with an older relative who insisted that JK Rowling had been treated cruelly by the internet. We had a long back and forth where the thing I found most frustrating was that when he defended transphobic talking points, he would do it in a half-hearted way and insist that he didn't believe them, he just 'understood how you could see it that way' and it was all very complicated and hard to know for certain. And eventually we got to the heart of the matter, because he said he wasn't going to fight against transphobia or racism or fatphobia, and he didn't have to and that didn't make him a bad person. And I realized that if it was possible for a position to be found genuinely and unambiguously wrong, he saw that as a fundamental failure of moderacy. Because if the power to see and define oppression belongs in the hands of the oppressed, then the privileged don't get to define morality.
Yuuup. I've noticed this a lot, but there's a lot of resentment among moderates and centrists of having to "care" about racism and sexism and transphobia. Because racism is a "Black problem" and homophobia is a "gay problem." It's got nothing to do with them. And so there more upset at the people who continually bring up these topics than they are on people who actually add to oppression.
@@TheSkaOreo naturally, bc they and their loved ones are the ones doing the oppressing. impossible for these mfs w their imagined moral high ground to even consider that maybe they’re the bad guys, that maybe they’re complicit