Modding a Super 8 Camera into a Digital
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- Опубликовано: 21 фев 2019
- One man's trash is a maker's treasure! Clem found a super8 camera in the trash and soon realized that the original analog films and the processing is crazy expensive nowadays. So he creates a replacement for the film cartridge that turns the super8 camera into a digital one! But that is easier said than done! Connect with Clem Mayer and get the B.O.M. on element14: bit.ly/2NklWEi
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I love that you didn't destroy the camera for this proyect!
I like vintage stuff so , I wanted to preserve it and give it a new use. thanks
@@MAYERMAKES good job!
Well, I'm glad that you didn't destroy the camera. Albeit more difficult, using the internal mechanics that rolls the film to trigger recording might be a better solution.
I thought about that at first but it would make things to difficult in the given timeframe. And I wanted to kerp the camera unaltered
@@MAYERMAKES I don't think you'd have to alter the camera. You could take a piece of film from your development debacle and turn it into a belt. You could then use an optical sensor of some kind (akin to how old ball mice worked) to detect when the camera has started moving the film belt.
@Mayer Makes This is simply one of your best builds yet. I hope you can refine this in a version 2 because I love seeing people breathe new life into old technology!
Thanks, I'll try
An awesome, stylish hack! Also glad the camera was left intact.
thanks
This is awesome, and I'd definitely love to see a follow-up video to this one!
Thanks, could be possible
Wooooowww!! I've always wanted to do this specific project and never got my head around to actually making it. I still want to try one of those old Lomography cameras and upgrade it to digital. My dear sir, you are a genius. This is the best video of the year so far. My respects.
Thanks a lot!
I did a little FAQ that might answer your quastions www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-91443/l/episode-382-modding-a-super-8-camera-into-a-digita?ICID=hp-element14-triptic#comment-150155
My question is why didn’t you use a super 8 cartridge to house all of the new digital equipment then you would have your perfect alignment?!
When you open a cartridge you will see that there is not much space in there but a ton of specific plastic pieces that guide the film. cutting that out takes more time than 3d printing a new case+ you have no exact alignment refference, it has a big hole that accomodatre all super8 camera types.+ the lense has to be several centimeters back. and all the parts needed did not fit inside even if it would be possible to position the sensor right at the front(which does not work because of the way optics work)
The kit would be awesome to buy, thank you.
Loved this video, i'll be waiting for part 2! Greetings from Argentina
Interesting project. It looks like camera's shutter might be out of sync with the Pi camera. I think that explains the lines going left to right
Yes , I had to make sure they will never sync up to avoid only getting a black screen, it adds to the 70s feel of the footage as you could not adapt the framerate back then to accomodate dfferent light sources
😂 "...and the thing where the magic happens" 😂
so good!
I love your project! When you've got it working and ready for sale or diy kit I'll have one!
Thanks, keep an eye out at Element14.com
cant believe how much like a super 8 video this resembles.. was that actaul footage or has it been modified..
Getting ready to try this with a 16mm. Would you recommend an upgrade for the pi3? I'm new to this beyond occasionally reading about it. Thanks
Check out the new version!
@@MAYERMAKES link?
Did you leave the lens on the Pi camera, and if so would it work any better if you unscrewed it so you were exposing the sensor directly using the optics from the Super 8 camera?
I did test various combinations and, yes also without the pi lense, but you need it at max extension to be able to see anything at all, the sensor widht and focus lenght are vastly different
I did a little FAQ that might answer your quastions www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-91443/l/episode-382-modding-a-super-8-camera-into-a-digita?ICID=hp-element14-triptic#comment-150155
Thank you for the clarification!
Really great video and project!!!
One question:
How do you deal with the exposure notches?
dealt with in version two
Btw, I was also using a stripped down Japanese Fuuvi Bee 8mm Digital Camera for this project. That cam is really cool, albeit holding it is ... yeah, kinda 🙃 silly looking. But, to be honest, the footage you get from it is actually really close to super 8.
If you can get your hand on one of them still, get it, it’s a fun little toy!
Thanks, glad you like it
Couldn't you try exposing the rpi cam sensor without the lens?
Looks like a great project. :)
I did a little FAQ that might answer your quastions www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-91443/l/episode-382-modding-a-super-8-camera-into-a-digita?ICID=hp-element14-triptic#comment-150155
@@MAYERMAKES Thanks! That cleared that up. :)
This is very cool. Can't wait to see V2.0😎
Cool Project! I had the same Idea. Probably it is possible to use a Mobius-Action-Cam. This has all features already in it (Webcam, Recording-Cam, ...). But I think most important is to have the sensor just right on the place where the film has been.
Finnaly someone shows how to make safe shutdown script for Pi3!
should be a standard for any project that has no screen/keyboard, thanks!
use the built in overlays for that.......
Nice! You always bring top game to the show!
Thank you
Did you ever get to make the second version?
I'm on it.
Keep going with this. Super cool
thanks, I will
Great stuff!! Did you get any further with your project?
Love your videos BTW 😊
Version two is in the works
Great to hear! Been thinking of this on and off recently found my old fuuvi bee, but unfortunately the flat cable broke off... got no way to control it now, but would be a nice little thing to insert into a super 8 😊😊
What a great way to give antiquated technology a new lease of life, great video!
Thank you very much
@@MAYERMAKES no problem man, you're doing great! After enough time goes by and people start to get used to the new cast, I imagine these annoying vultures who pollute the comment section won't be a problem anymore. Stick with it and it'll get better :)
@@amirpourghoureiyan1637 I'm doing it for the people that actually think about the content and understand it, like you, not for the "vultures"
@@MAYERMAKES I'm looking forward to the next project, good luck!
im super interested in this and have a Nikon super zoom-8..... anything new here?
Iḿ working on a follow up at this very moment. You can see updates on our projects from time to time on our socials and the website of course.
@@MAYERMAKES url’s of that website
This is an awesome idea! Please continue to make it better, I think the cameras shutter does not match the webcam camera, and also the webcam camera may need a macro lens to be able to focus close as possible on the inside, also using the highest possible quality camera on the inside will help in image quality, please continue this, I would buy a kit, would be handy if it all would fit in a 8mm cartridge as you have it, so then it would work on any model camera. Thanks!
thanks, I do plan to develop it further (recently bougth another super 8 camera) , fitting a camera and focusing it is veeeery hard as you have seen in the video. keep an euy open at www.mayermakes.com and element14.com for updates (this will probably take a while)
There was a company that created a concept for a digital Super 8 cartridge that would fit into any Super 8 camera called Nolab. They never got it past the concept stage. There were a couple of enthusiasts, and now you, who made their own Digital Super 8 cartridge for these cameras, giving them a second life. Godspeed to you, good sir. :)
Thanks, i should read up about that product, will be helpfull for v2.0
Hi Daniel I remember that nolab project and I bought a second hand super 8 when I saw one. They never bought it out this man is a genius just to get everything lined up inside the cartridge is amazing. He should bring out a kit for this - for us less technically skilled people.
Great concept and prototype. Interesting to see, and I love that the footage comes out looking so retro. I doubt I'll ever do this exact project, but I can definitely see me repurposing some of the parts of it.
Those little Panasonic relays on the GPIO have blown my mind. I can definitely see me using those in projects to vastly simplify interfacing with legacy stuff.
It's unfortunate that Farnell don't stock the Zero W. The dedicated hardware h264 encoding for cameras on the CSI interface would presumably allow a smaller and less power-hungry Pi Zero W to suffice.
I wonder what the cost (engineering time and BoM) for a minimal Compute Module 3+ interface board with just power and CSI interface (and maybe Micro SD for the Lite and USB for WiFi) would be? Somewhat out of my depth on that! It could potentially shrink the footprint significantly though.
I love the content, and I'm excited to see either if you take this project further, or what your next project is.
thanks, The compute module approach is interesting, you may want to take the discussion to element14.com so others can chime in and exchange ideas how to pull it of
Great project 👍😊
I was trying to do this some years ago as well, triggered by the nolab concept. When I did some research about fitting the parts into a cartridge and getting the exposure triggering from the mechanical components inside the cam I ran across a patent that some dude filed just exactly for that. Just to let you know in case you want to go into production with this ;-)
Don’t want a patent troll ruining all your hard work after all, hm?
There are other guys getting this thing started, and I’m sure once someone figures out how to fit everything into a cartridge the demand will be overwhelming. Just taking into consideration all the great high quality lenses some of these cams had is worth doing a retrofit!
Wishing you all the best and waiting for further updates!
Thanks, I had no idea about nolab when I started this, a viewer did point me to it. If it gets developed further you will see it at Element14.com
I love the project. I'd entertain trying one myself.
Some questions and points:
- Is running the camera's shutter necessary? Can you just leave the shutter open by not pulling the trigger and use any arbitrary frame rate without worrying about sync?
- Additionally, the shutter on super8 cameras are not perfectly synced anyway, they're quite imprecise.
- Did you leave on the daylight filter on the camera when recording? It would be better to turn it off indoors and probably on a digital scanner in general. Some of the frames look too warm, although the camera seems to be trying to white balance the image during some shots. You can disable it by inserting a 1/4" screw in the lighting mount.
- Were you using the manual aperture control on that model, or was it handled by the exposure meter? If the latter, then did you utilise or pay attention to the pin system when building the cartridge? And is there a convenient way to vary it?
thanks for your interest, I'm right at this very moment working on the follow up.
here are some answers:
shutter: all the Super8 cams I have encountered in person so far do not have the ability to just keep the shutter open. they all use on a spring loaded mechanism that snaps it open directly driven mechanically bound to the film actuator. People tried before to sync to the shutter, but in reality these old cams do not have a very constant shutter, so instead I record at max framerate and cut out the black frames in Post(maybe even directly on the device). recording 60FPS with 18FPS shutter should yield enough usable frames.
the Cam I used in this video is a very basic Canon modell for its time, no filters, no manual aperture, just focus and worn out zoom. No grading or anything else has been done to the image besides rotating it. On that particular model the pin system inside does not have any effect, (only fixed plastic parts that restrict the type of film you can insert to suitable Cartridges.
In the meantime I got a much better Eumig Super8 (f1,8 !!) that is much better in all regards than the Canon you saw in the old video.
The new cartridge system has provisions to take advantage of the cartridge pins but in this iteration it just leaves the camera alone. this also ensures it can fit in ALL super8 cameras with compatible slots.
there are still a lot of challenges to be conquered. but I might have solved a few. But there is a loooot going into this before its something filmmakers might want to productively use.
@@MAYERMAKES Thanks for replying. I question some of the information in this post.
Firstly, what model did you use? It appears to be the Canon Auto Zoom 814 Electronic. If so then some of what you just wrote is incorrect.
- It is NOT basic model for its time. Relative to general super8 cameras of the time, this model has a lot of features and is actually quite advanced for 1972. I would say it better resembles a 1980s model.
- It DOES have a daylight filter. Again, the screw in the top disables it. (You can visually see the screw female in the video).
- As a separate note, filters can be added to the front of the lens, if needed.
- The pin system reads the ISO of the film from a notch on the cartridge. That model can read a large number of ISOs (relative to cameras at the time).
- Auto exposure is set by pushing in the aperture control ring. Pulling it out sets it to manual aperture control.
- This camera has an f/1.4 to f/32 aperture.
- You may(?) be able to use the remote switch in single-frame mode to keep the shutter open.
- Did you adjust the eyepiece for correct viewfinder focus?
- That camera also has a macro switch, variable shutter angle, exposure adjustment, fade effect, flash sync, frame rate control (up to 40), single shot, remote control, many ISOs supported, power zoom, etc. Most of these features would not appear on a "basic" model from the early 70s.
- The manual can be downloaded from www.mondofoto.com/manuals/canonautozoom814electronic/
- Out of curiosity, which model of Eumig do you have? I happen to have an Eumig projector FYI.
Great start! Two things you might want to look into.
1. I had a super8 camera (early eighties Kmart branded) that had a manual shutter release for things like stop motion filming. It would be a simple matter in such a camera to manually open the shutter, that would remove the problem of the shutter not syncing with the Pi camera module. Also there would be no need to supply power to the camera itself. (It would require a camera with a manual shutter release though).
2. remove the lens from the Pi module, and align the sensor in the exact position that the film would have been in with the original film cartridge.
I adressed all of these questiosn in detail in the blog linked in the description, give it a read!
You need to find the distance of the original film relative to focal point, then use a system that allows you to move the camera closer or further.
There's a Dutch guy who's been working on this for years and has fantastic results. He even has a global shutter, shoots in raw and has a photo developing app.
Got a link for that project?
@@MAYERMAKES ruclips.net/user/psteemers
I'm working on a project taking an old (and consequently cheap) point and shoot and moving it entirely into a custom made body and add a c mount for lenses like these. The sensor sizes are similar enough to super 8, and c mount's low flange distance should keep the overall size fairly compact. I guess we'll see how it turns out :)
Could you guys do a video where you rebuild and refurbish xbox elite controller???
make sure to post that idea at element14.com/suggestionbox
Great one, lad. The greatest digital Super 8 Camera of them all. Try that with a 16mm film camera and a 35mm Hollywood studio camera as suggestions.
I would If I could get my hands on one of those, super8 is rare to find in my area, super16 or afilmkamera might be very hard to come across.
@@MAYERMAKES No worries, you can find many Super 8 Cameras or 8mm film cameras at thrift stores if you are lucky to find one. Maybe I might find one for you, lad.
@@kevinbarton9052 thrift stores are not existent where I live. only the few richest people had film cameras back then. The one I used in the video is the only physicsl one I had ever seen in the wild.
@@MAYERMAKES Sorry about that. At least my Whitby Ontario town has thrift stores.
How much would you charge to make one these for the public?
Not stated in the 'notes', is to get the project info, you need to be REGISTERED as an Element14 customer to access the downloads.
No, you just join the site it's a community not a store.
Many years ago I used to work in a motion picture film processing lab. There's a LOT to the process between the chemicals and the machinery that makes sure the film goes through the tanks with the right timing. It's possible a maker could create a motion picture film processing machine but I think it would be a VERY ambitious project.
It's been done
Great one, lad. Using a 500 GB mini storage card is best making great digitized 8mm movies as long as the 500 GB mini storage card can hold. Great making independant silent movies.
Thx
I kind of want to give this one a shot (pun intended). I have a Super8 camera which has a hinged side to it (so positioning the camera bit would be a hell of a lot easier). Date codes on this one (stamped into the plastic bits) suggest it's probably from the late 1960s. It's not a Canon so the remote stuff might need revision on my part and this one didn't take advantage of the audio strip that was apparently a thing in some cameras. Funny story, apparently the manufacturer of this camera needed a 6V battery (the adapter has the same connections as a 9V cell that you'd find at any dollar store today). Fortunately they opted to just use 4 AA cells in series instead of some funky proprietary solution.
Also, Digital8 would be a nifty name for this, but those damn kids at Sony had to call their digital Video8 variant Digital8. Oh well XD
Give it a go and post your build on element14.com so we csn kerp up with your progress
Would you sell a cartridge like that and if so .. for how much :)
I would like to but turning this in a manufacturable product is very hard. Still keep an eye out on Element14.com
good job
thanks
Even I think turning any 35mm film camera into a digital 35mm camera is a great one to do, lad. When I find any 35mm film camera, I will send one to you so you can do such a great 35mm digital film camera as that option so no one will ever buy 35mm camera film anymore.
I'd buy that kit.
genius! make one, I'll take one
You're probably aware of the mechanical shutter vs sensor fps problem?
yes I had to make sure they won´t line up perfectly8to avoid blackout) 24/25fps yielded the best result
The Fuji and Polaroid Super 8 cameras used a bigger cartridge then the normal Super 8 cameras about the size of your digital sensor
you have the coolest projects! dafür gibts einen daumen hoch!
Danke , Thanks
I need to find someone to do this for me :) an old 8mm my dad use to use
Try converting a VCR or DVD recorder into a Video Hard Drive Recorder as a suggestion so nobody uses VHS tapes and DVD's for recording video game longplays as the option.
you should post that at element14.com/suggestionbox so we can actually build that idea!
You are absolutely crazy
doing my part.
Wouldn't it be more convenient to look for an edge in the code instead of using a while loop? This does seem really resource intensive for no reason at all.
for sure there are better ways to do it, I'm fairly new to python so I only cared for it to work not to be perfect.
It's already invented call- video camera. ( You can find one - used for $5 in the thrift store )🙂
But I liked !!! Now I am thinking about doing something with my 16mm Bolex .
the look of a vintage super 8 lense is just something you can't get wit ha modern camera. it is quite different . the point is to get that look in digital not to make just any camera. go for the bolex!
austrian english ftw - get tooo theee choppaaaaa
if it bleeds we can kill it!
Maybe you should remove the lens from the digital camera, it seems redundant in not destructively excessive (harms the focus maybe).
I did test various combinations and, yes also without the pi lense, but you need it at max extension to be able to see anything at all, the sensor widht and focus lenght are vastly different
@@MAYERMAKES If you have a laser or strong light you might be able to find the exact focal point with vapor ( atomized water from sprayer); still, it might be difficult to measure the distance in an enclosed environment, it might give you a better ability to estimate the length.
I did a little FAQ that might answer your quastions www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-91443/l/episode-382-modding-a-super-8-camera-into-a-digita?ICID=hp-element14-triptic#comment-150155
I appreciate your knowledge and effort, but not for me, I like the analogue image, that comes from the film.
All that work and the image isn't so hot. Why not use the Pi High Quality camera? Too big?
That camera did not exist when I made that video. There is an newer video on the project on this channel featuring hq cam and compute module 4
Super D! Please keep going with this project.
will do!
More light and 50hz filter needed.
Yeeeessssss
agreed
kodak should fund you!
Kodak should be more selective about their brand licensing....
u a genius
You are nice.
Make me one
Now that is a great one to do. Make great digital 8mm film videos and movies, even if you can use a 512 GB storage card for this. Way to go, lad!.
Thanks!
Who the hell threw that away
Iḿ kinda glad they did..but I don't understand either
A Lithium battery won't last very long therefore a power supply is going to be needed, as you don't the system to crash because you ran out of battery.
You should have used a Pi 1 A+, which would have used less power...
The Motor probably would still make that PI dropout though?
I actually used the original pia+ while prototyping, but it took very long to process the video file. Power draw might be less but I did not test that
@@MAYERMAKES hmmmm...
You could just left it as a h264 file and opened it on ffmpeg-server...
The you could have used vlc or ffmpeg on your pc to capture it
You'll probably need to take the lens off the camera module itself and align the sensor in the same plane as the film. That'll get the camera closer, and mean you can have a smaller enclosure :D
Tried that but no chsnce the focal distance is totalky different you need the lense extendwd to near max to get anything to show up, without lens you csn only see darkness or a little light blob
I did a little FAQ that might answer your quastions www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-91443/l/episode-382-modding-a-super-8-camera-into-a-digita?ICID=hp-element14-triptic#comment-150155
This is a terrible waste of a Super 8 camera that still can shoot Super 8 film. Why would you ruin a perfectly good camera? Super 8 is far from dead, it’s having a resurgence in fact.
He didn't ruing the camera. In fact, he didn't even change the camera in any way. All he did was create a digital cartridge. Stop whining.
The camera was not ruined or altered in any way. Watch the video again and pay attention.
but why would you do that
dont do that lol
I’m sorry but this is ridiculous.
Dude, I'm sorry but for me this makes no sense. You basically added a lens in front of a webcam connected to a pi, struggling to fit everything in a tiny space. You can get better results by applying a couple overlays and blur to the Webcam footage. No code, 3d printer or soldering skills needed.
Guess you didn’t get the whole thing here... like people questioning others for driving a vintage Mustang when a Nissan Leaf would get them from A to B as well...