Super 8 Camera Digitizer with Raspberry Pi 4 Compute Module
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- Опубликовано: 1 июл 2021
- In a previous episode, Clem has built a proof of concept to convert a Super 8 film camera into a digital camcorder without any modifications to the camera itself. Many of you asked for a Kit or if a digital drop-in Film Cartridge replacement was possible! Finally, Clem has the chance to revisit the project and uses the New Raspberry PI compute Module 4 and the HQ camera module to build a crazy compact cartridge that is a major stepping stone towards a real product! And during the project, he even had to start his own 3D printer Resin brand just to obtain a material that is up to the task for this project! bit.ly/3hwpWBk
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#Super8 #Digitizer #Digitiser #RaspberryPi #ComputeModule #RaspberryPiCompute 
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If you could get this to become a commercial product, I know myself and many many others would buy it in a heartbeat! Heck, I'd buy several! It could help bring Super 8 cameras back to a wider audience. Lots of people are interested in Super 8 cameras, it's just the cost of film and processing nowadays that scares them off. I really hope this project continues!
I wish it was that easy, but I'm constantly hitting new obstacles, maybe one day someone will figure out a commercially viable version.
I like all the builders on this channel but Clem is the best.
Thank you very much Mike!
Glad you revisited this awesome project. And you made your own resin for 3D printing? Mind blowing. Looking forward to more episodes on this!
yes, sometimes you just need to have no other choice but go beyound the reasonable...
@@MAYERMAKES Curious.
I'd like one of those. Film is so expensive, and so are the decent scanning devices. I'm looking forward to seeing the end result from this project.
Thanks, yes I hope that this will become an option to do at least the test footage cheaper before wasting expensive film.
@@MAYERMAKES Yes, excellent for trying things out...
Awesome project !! Clem's projects are definitely my favorite on Element14
Thanks!
As a stopgap, would it be acceptable to throw on a barrel plug or terminals and have the power supply external, in a little box that you'd velcro to the top of the camera? Would not look or work quite as nice, but at least it would be good enough for a beta version of the thing.
Power supplies in tight quarters are always tricky.
I thought about that option, but the trouble starts with the big variance in super 8 cameras, most do not have space to squeeza a cable through. Or need to close a mechanical latch to start operating. Understandable as they were designed to be light tight. As my goal is to make it viable in any camera I need to learn some proper psu design.
@@MAYERMAKES Yeah I feared you'd say that. Simplest modification would involve a drill through the camera door though ;)
If it's a one-time modification, many people would be willing to do it-though they would sacrifice the ability to use film in the camera without also putting back a piece of electrical tape over the hole they create.
@@JeffGeerling I'm a camera nerd myself...and I just hate that thought, unless I can see no other option I will not give up on making this a ZERO modification product.
@@MAYERMAKES Heh, that's what I expect to hear, and is one of the reasons your projects are fascinating to watch develop-when you don't compromise, it leads to some fun solutions!
@@JeffGeerling thanks, I give that compliment back, I may have given up on PCIE a lot earlier than you..
I don't have a Super8, never used one, but this is such a wonderful project and I am glad you shared this. I have no advice on tiny switching power supplies but I hope you get an answer soon as I want to see the final product!
thank you, it f this sparked your interest in electrnics, my goal is fullfilled.
This is super cool, I hope it all comes together successfully, and I guess I better start looking for a cheap Super 8 camera, before the prices go crazy once there is a commercial version of this project!
Haha I'm also looking around to find more of them usually you get them between €20 and €100 depending on the model and region.
Keeping a close eye on this, I've got an old Nizo 6080 kicking around that works well but would jump sprocket holes too often to be reliable with film. But it has one of the best lenses ever put on a Super8.
Ich bin echt auf die Fortschritte gespannt! Macht Spass dir da zuzuschauen!
Mega starkes Projekt!
Danke
Phenomenal. Fantastic job.
Thank you!
Thanks for the video! Wondering if there is a new episode with the fixes but also way to buy the stuff
Ready to buy!!
I love this so much; thanks for hacking the way I want to learn to. Great work and huge eyes on you. I would love to be able to record from a super 8. Love it.
thanks, and we will see how the project evolves...
Hi Clem, Mind Blowing, fantastic , but a bit over my head, (I could only manage a grass applicator, with your help , ) All the Best Brian 🤗
That is actually coming up soon as so many people ask for it.
You should hook up a logging power supply (temporarily) in place of the step-up converter. Run the prototype through boot up, recording, playback, download, and any other "operating modes" you expect to support. From the plotted current results, you can determine what minimum supply is needed (based on peak mA output). Or you may find that the spikes in current draw are small enough (in energy, current*time) that a supercap on the output of your prototype's existing supply can bridge the gap. (as pointed out in another comment)
By measuring the project's power consumption, you can optimize the supply rather than over-designing (since space is very limited). Also... I didn't catch if you explained the voltage and current requirements of each module. Do you need to provide multiple voltage rails?
Thanks for the awesome projects. You inspire so many of us to do more.
Thanks, very good points, the prototype needs a single voltage rail expected optimum is 3A@5, 2v without any ripples or drops. It operates at 2A now but browns out once the 2A are reached, due to a voltage drop below 4,8V
Maybe we make a dedicated power supply episode one day.
Great stuff.
thanks!
You look like heath ledger ! The dark knight of the electronics:) Love this btw although I’m just gonna put a 1/3” 4k sensor from an action cam as I’m not blessed with your skill set will post a video of how I did it once it’s done! Cheers! And best wishes:)
haha, thanks, that is a first!
Still have my dad's old 8mm camera, wonder if there's a difference between the 8mm cartridges and Super 8 ones. They look the same.
there is agood chance that camera is actually a super8
awesome project
thanks
This is amazing!
Thank you
Great project Clem. Looking forward to the PSU solution. Half a thought entered my head about wireless charging, and whether that could be used to boost the internal battery for a short time to set up, then be moved away for normal use... but, probably not viable
Yes, that idea while an interesting concept comes with some drawbacks that make it not viable for this pi articular project.
5:30 omg that transition
A working digital back that would extend out would've been fine. The fitment to the cartridge size could've been a second phaze goal as the tech shrinks generationally. Great work you have done here.
Clem, you're a genius
no. I'm just trying to make something work, its still a far way from finished....
You are welcome
Fantastic!
thank you!
What about covering the spare PCB space in caps. If you can wind back the clock, might get you there. Could bench verify also
just caps alone won possibly help enough , i better design a dedicated psu
very nice
thanks!
Hello my friend, I have a question. I was looking for software that would allow me to control the settings of the IMX477 sensor, same I use a cinema camera, and I found this group of software: CinePi V2, CinePi -SDK, cinemate , so I tried it on a Raspberry Pi 4b board and it worked well without any problems. But when I use the Raspberry Pi WaveShare-CM4-Nano-B board, just the software interface works without any image, and I would like to help me to solve this problem.🙏🏼
Nice!
thanks!
You are a genius, T take my hat off to you
thank you, but you can leeeeaavve your hat on.
I can't imagine that a sufficient market actually exist for this product today. The proliferation of low cost digital HD even 4K video camera's much easier to use would seem to make this product obsolete before it came to market.
Your power issue is likely resolved if you just turned off WiFi.
what is powering your shutter? how much voltage is the shutter using? can you replace the camera batteries with an adapter? which camera are you currently using? getting hdmi out of the camera body would be ideal. would you consider looking into a camera bigger cartridge (I know a few)?
All explained in the video. The camera and cartridge are independent in all aspects.
Congratulations for the video. I would like to suggest two solutions. You could use supercaps (two connected in series for example) put directly in parallel to the power supply. To charge them is an SMD IC from Linear Technology (LTC3128EFE). The beauty of this chip that you can adjust the input current and limit it so as not to strain the battery. To obtain the 5V if necessary there is always a buck-boost signed LTC3119 from Linear Technology. The whole thing doesn't take up much space and could act as an energy buffer.
Hi Clem I've really enjoyed the Super8 project. Inspired by you and others I am attempting something similar for an Agfa Microflex 300. The side opening arrangement is much easier for me. Just though I'd let you know I've printed the .STL files in ABS to do some trial fitting of components and I noticed, that there isn't a hole or recess in the body of the printed box to accommodate the drive dog for the film cassette, so on closing the cassette door it jams a bit too tight. Something to look at for a future revision if the aim is to have a universal drop in replacement for the Super8 film. Build here is a Pi Zero Cam, Pi Zero 2W, LiPo Hat and 3500mAh battery, it's a tight squeeze to say the least. I'm currently working on the Agfa to get it to fully functional. Many thanks, best wishes and I'm looking forward to your updates on the project. Pete
awesome! keep us logged about your project!
I'll buy one!
any ideas how to convert vhs camcorder to digital? I presume with replacing tape mechanism with some kind of converter/recorder? we'll need to trick camcorder's logic with fake signals from tape mech sensors indicating it's function
oh thats a totally different sort of beast...might be doable
It is digital already, the only part is the recording was made analog to store on the tape. Then they finally went digital recording in the digital8 version
NICE!!!
thx
Do U have snything that wirks on a Nikon F 75 film camera( 35mm cartridge)
nope
Any updates on this project? Still stuck on the power issue? Such a great concept! So impressed with your efforts.
no news so far, no time and no solution for a few more issues other than power
Can you use the Camera rotation mechanism to make some power?
no, that would not besufficient and a lot to bulky. as it is there is no room to spare
Oooooh... so close! Can't wait to see this thing working!
I've thought for years that somebody should be making conversions for old SLRs, and maybe even Polaroid cameras.
a lot of people tried, but its a very tough project.
why? you can just put the lenses on digital cameras.. and it accomplish the exact same thing. so rather move the lens, than try to put the digital camera inside the other camera.
@@Nobody-Nowhere The lenses are not interchangeable between most film and digital cameras, and even if they physically fit all of the electronic functions usually don't carry over. Film SLRs are far more rugged and higher quality than any digital SLR. Film SLRs give you more manual control. You already know your way around your old camera, and digital camera menus are a nightmare. Why spend thousands on a new camera body, not to mention lenses and other acessories and have to learn a whole new way of doing things? And they change the menus with new versions of the same model, so you're continually having to learn where they've hidden and buried basic, often-used settings. With a fim camera and digitizer adapter you can permanently stick with the same camera and accessories and just upgrade the digitizer when it becomes advantageous. You still have the option of using film for the additional creative power that gives you, without having to lug around another camera and kit. And you could take video with that same old still camera that never had that capability before.
There are a hundred practical and thousands of financial reasons to stick with a film camera.
@@awo1fman So what lenses are not interchangeable? " Film SLRs give you more manual control. " Like the shutter speed & aperture? :) You definitely cant do that in digital cameras.
"Why spend thousands on a new camera body, not to mention lenses and other accessories" You don't have to? You can get used digitals really cheaply. And do you think purchasing a specially made digital sensor that magically fits into the film bay, is cheaper?
" have to learn a whole new way of doing things" You kinda have to learn it anyhow when you put a digital camera inside your film camera.. it really changes nothing. You have to learn digital processing, photoshop and all that.
Also, there are already countless digital backs for medium format cameras.
It just makes no sense, this is all about some sort of hipster dream of looking cool while shooting film cameras. Its literally about hiding a digital camera inside a film camera to look cool.
@@Nobody-Nowhere So what you're saying is, "Nananananananana, NO, YOU!" and making assertions that are obviously false.
As a user of both 35mm film cameras from the 1980s on and digital cameras from 2000 on, I know exactly what I'm talking about. There are many lenses that in theory physically fit a given mount, but when you go to try them they actually don't fit. Even when they physically fit, they don't have all the same electrical contacts. Even if they have the electrical contacts the electronics and logic in the camera don't always work the same. Then there's the matter of ruggedness. Modern cameras and lenses are mostly plastic. Old camera bodies and lens housings were mostly metal.
There is no such thing as a cheap digital SLR. Even the "entry-level" ones are NOT cheap, and as soon as you start adding things like flashes and decent glass, the cost is in the thousands of dollars. That's not cheap.
No digital camera offers the total manual control that a full manual SLR does. Digital cameras are designed to not allow you to take pictures that their programming thinks will not produce a usable result or that might cause damage to the camera itself. A manual film camera allows you to make whatever settings you want, and sometimes you're not trying to take a picture that is "good". Sometimes you want to do something that is massively over- or under-exposed, or totally out of focus or blurry. Or you want to do something that requires physically unmounting the lens and using a technique or device that makes the camera think there is no lens attached even when there is (like tilt-shift or extension tube). Digital cameras don't do well with that because they are designed with self-preservation in mind, whereas old film cameras don't care. They don't have permanent sensors to collect moisture, dust and debris or that can get scratched or otherwise permanently damaged. Many of them don't even have batteries or electronics of any kind to malfunction or be damaged, so they are ten thousand times more reliable.
One thing that is very different between digital and film cameras is the way they react to filters. Trying to use filters with a digital camera is an exercise in frustration and more often than not is outright impossible. The sensor and electronics fight the filter and try to compensate and "fix" the effect you're trying to produce instead of just letting you do what you want to do. Using a film camera with a digitizer would solve that problem because if all else failed you could just pop in a roll of film and force the results you want. Without having to carry around two cameras and all their respective accessories and support gear. And no, there is no amount of digital editing that can substitute for the real thing.
I've used many different digital cameras over the years, sometimes updated versions of the same camera. They're all rubbish and they bury settings that I use constantly deep in menus that are a pain to navigate and use. And the menu structure is always different in some fundamental way between cameras, even adjacent updates of the same model. Frequently the settings I want are only available in full manual mode because the various modes always "helpfully" lock you out of certain features for no reason. Such as wanting to use fill flash in in "landscape" mode. Nope, can't do it. Even though there are frequently things in the foreground that might be backlit or in shadow that you need to illuminate (a sign, a person, an animal) but you want the depth of field and all the other settings of landscape mode because it's essentially a landscape photo. Or something fleeting happens and you need to instantly fire off a photo and don't have time to turn the mode dial but do have time to press the flash button or another instant setting but it doesn't work because you're in the wrong mode. I'm constantly having to futz around with the modes on my digital SLR because the one that seems obvious just won't do what I need it to do. So if you're going to have to go full manual anyway, why not use the camera you already have that is more durable and much simpler to use, not to mention is already paid for.
If you've spent several thousand dollars on a camera body, lenses, flashes and other equipment then yes, it would be far cheaper to just add a digital sensor to the mix. Even the pro camera bodies that cost thousands of dollars are the cheapest part of the investment because the good quality lenses that fit them cost even more. If a single lens will do everything you need, then you're wasting your money on a camera with interchangeable lenses and you have no clue what you're doing or talking about. A point-and-shoot with a long zoom is a very long way from being the same thing. And the sensor is not what makes the camera expensive, it's everything else.
Did you ever finish up?
Have you considered undervolting and underclocking the CPU to lower the power requirements? I can't imagine you need the full power and speed of the rpi4 for this functionality.
Amazing work either way and can't wait to see what you come up with!
Not yet, the first design approach is to make it work without setting tricks, underclocking is only an option when others fail.
I’m really interested in seeing part 2 of this. I think from my perspective, getting the sensor into the original film plane would be a priority; an external monitor for focus is an undesirable compromise that would mess up minimum and infinity focus distance, render scale focus impossible (scale markings on the lenses are very useful in filmmaking scenarios), and possibly degrade the image. Bravo though on the proof of concept, very cool!
i got pretty stuck on it, not sure if i make another iteration
@@MAYERMAKES sorry to hear you got stuck, but thanks even so. The designs you made were very cool!
What if you use a Wireless charger and power the camera through a coil on the outside?
losses and interference issues are a concern
How does the footage look with this module?
We will se we it's done,
have their been any updates on this?
no, I got stuck with the next iteration
A lot of the super 8 camers had batteries inside the pistol grip handle. That might be a place for a power supply outside of the cartridge
please dont give up on this project...
well its been a while and there are so many problems to solve...maybe I finish it one day...
How about making a power supply that fits inside the handle of the camera and make it so that when you insert the cartridge the power gets connected
That raises a lot of other problems, there is usually no connection between those cavities and every cam is built differently.
I would buy one
This has gone a long way! And formulating a special resin to make a more durable print? Super interesting.
I know your a camera aficionado and are pushing to get everything into that cartridge and not need to modify the base camera in any way, but what about non-destructive modification? Such as replacing the cartridge door, with say a 3d Printed one that has a hole in it to allow for a barrel jack or usb connection for power etc. Kind of piggybacking off of Jeff Greerling's initial suggestion, but in a way that keep the integrity of the camera and its collectability in tact, while also allowing you to fully test the current iteration of the cartridges camera and prism placement. Or a dummy cartridge with the camera/prism in place, and a 3d printed cartridge door with a slot in it for the camera modules ribbon cable to allow for rapid tinkering with it's placement for optimizing or even finding a way to get the prism lined up with where the film normally is, allowing for using the built in viewfinder accurately?
Anyway, your more knowledgeable on this, I'm just spitballing ideas, I look forward to your future developments and other projects. :D
Thanks, we collect all the ideas at the page linked below the video, some may be worth a try but I can see more problems cropping up with them. Either way I want to make it work in any camera so the bar is high..
Any update on this?
haven´t found a workable solution for this in the past two years so no.
Nice effort. So close.
thanks, was worth a try
I believe you skipped the part about the prism. It was never shown, so i guess you are waiting for delivery? :D
the prism is in there and visible in a few shots, its 10mmX10mm three sided. the shots of installing it did not make it into the final edit in favour of other info.
I wonder why the Pi Zero wouldn't be adequate? I know it's not as fast but it's a lot more compact, cool and has low power consumption.
the pi zero is a lot bigger thean the Compute module 4 and doies not have anywhere near enough computational power for real time capture.
@@MAYERMAKES I wasn't expecting it to be bigger than the CM4 as it's so low powered. I'm surprised it doesn't have enough juice to record video as it does have a camera connector.
It would be good if someone could invent a cartridge to fit the old Bell & Howell Standard 8mm 624 movie camera's. ( double 8)
The sensor being much farther away from the normal film plane... Hmmm.. makes me wonder if the lens will be able to focus far enough away to be usable. Maybe a corrective lens could help. Or maybe you can do like the old 35mm adaptors where you put a thin milky white sheet of some kind in the place of the film plane so you can use a fixed focus lens system to record off of that plane?...
Man... It sure would get easier if you could just detach the sensor from the PCB and put it at the film plane. :P
Did this ever move forward?
nope, i need to focus my time on other projects and there are some optical issues I did not solve
I’m afraid you’re going to have to do better with the placement of the camera module. Maybe switch to one of those modules on a ribbon? It’s just so far away from the film plane.
haven´t found a workable solution for this in the past two years so no.
Is there room for a small bank of super caps?
Probably but that is not enough, a custom psu is in order(possibly with suoercaos)
Not the solution you were asking for, but could you use wireless charging coils to transmit power to the device through the housing? I realise this might be a stupid suggestion...
Otherwise, have you tried disabling interfaces like the HDMI and PCI of the Pi to conserve power? It probably won't be enough on its own, but it might help get the power requirements down to something that's easier to achieve.
FInally, maybe you could undervolt the Pi and run it straight off the battery, without a PSU in between? Again, this might be a stupid idea.
No idea, if reasonable e is stupid, the mentioned ideas are I fortunately not viable, but we will find a solution eventually
This is going to revive super 8 so hard we all believe in you you should get a gig at Kodak to help revive their Super 8 project they’ve been stuck on for a few years
I'm happy doing what i do, I'm not sure kodak will ever finish that.
Thinking of a Kickstarter?i think there is demand.
maybe demand, but i must concentrate on other stuff atm
wish i kept my old camera now.
I found the first one in the trash, so you might get lucky!
Just put lion batteries in the handle) another thing is that you can shoot in CinemaDNG with this Rasberri Pi HQ camera) it could be awesome to make a product like that.
every cam is different, and this should be a drop in solution, so that is not a noption in any case.
I want one
and I wished I was able to bringn this to production but I did not find a way around some hurdles.
use a li-ion battery. like the ones from rc hellicopters ect . all you need is 15 minutes run time . they are verry small and powerfull
There is a lipo in there like you would use on a quad. The problem is the current delivery capabilities of the step up converter that is needed
I can't solder but would love to be able to use my Grandpa's super 8
I think you need to remove the wifi. If you add a micro usb connector. Once the end user removes the cart. they can plug it into a laptop or phone and use it as an external power source to upload the video. my cents. cutting the wifi will save a bit of power.
It sounded like you need a real time connection in order to properly adjust focus, since the sensor is at a different distance to the lens.
@@kevinmbrooks yes Kevin is right, wifi is needed for the controls. But I will find a solution eventually
The unit has usb c usable to charge and download footage. I take advantage of the otg mode of the compute module.
If (and I would expect this to be difficult and expensive) you could use a lens or lenses in front of the prism to get the focal point of the digital camera to match what the original film's focal point was, then you could skip the WiFi as suggested here.
@@brandtharen first yes that is possible but extremely expensive, custom optics are incredibly challenging. But that would not eliminate wifis use case as people would of course want to control ISO, shutter speed, resolution and capture modes. also having a output on a mobile display like a phone is ahandy feature. I will maske cuts once established there is no other way until then I look for a power solution.
Why not put an external power supply and run it in the handle. If i remember there is a cavity in the handle in most of them. You could use that space to put it.
Great concept. It would allow usage of the older cameras no longer used. Recycling them.
Every camera model is different and in most cases there is no way to get a cable through anything without modifications to the cam, the godl was a true drop in replacement.
Why didn't you use the original 8mm cartridge for the housing? What does that look like on the inside? Also here is a very small 300W buck converter ruclips.net/video/G4GPfi5Ozvg/видео.html
The original cartridge has basically no space inside, absolutely unusable. Refer to the first video on this project to see the insides.also cutting up 40€ cartridges for production would be unfeasible @)
Take the power from power supply from camera...
Ah, deadlines…
These Cameras need their own power supply. Why don't you upgrade this to li ion and built a connection?
That would be not model independent and the camera should not be modified in any way.
why not just adding a swappable SD memory card slot to register everything "all in one" instead of streaming the video and having something else record it?
The video is internally recorded. The stream is for the user to set focus, aperture, shutter and so on.
Understood, I might have missed that :D
Having the focus different from the viewfinder would kind of ruin it for me.
haven't found a solution that would avoid that besides spending millions on development of a custom sensor board.so that is a limitation we gonna have to live with unless someone happens to manufacture a camera board that just fits by coincidence.
@@MAYERMAKES Because all the camera modules are to big to go in the right place?
PS. Can't use a endoscope module?
@@josephchamness9915 with an endoscope or any other s MN allee sensor you would also have to live with bad video quality, and what we want is a usable camera.
First
indeed!