How do you put your 17 year old kid in a detention center for using substances, but then say nothing and invite an actual dangerous delinquent to live under your roof with her? People make no sense.
@@mzee5533 If those are the rules in your household than you’re absolutely correct because you have the power to dictate them anything beyond that is solely your opinion.
Was wondering the same how Victoria was invited to live with Tawnee's family especially at such a young age and being a problematic teenager. Sounds like Tawnee did not have the best family and that resulted in her making poor decisions as well, but she would have had a great future.
The father was the one trying to set her straight and the mother was the enabler that was too soft on her. Maybe her going into the detention center wasn't the best call but then again, she could have just as easily fallen into a relationship with some deadbeat drug addict dude if she hadn't gone in too. Many missed opportunities after the release for her family to set firm boundaries that they just talked themselves into accommodating and accepting choices that were just immature and naive. A conversation along the lines of "you deserve better than someone like Victoria" might have gone a long way.
How so? I'm in my 40s been through 5 or 6 partnerships myself and got dozens of lesbian friends who i know very well - yet I have met only one girl who has a history of physically abusing her partners. And then again, a few girls let her do that and got involved in answering to that in the same manner, while others never let her (me included, that's my short time ex too, and 1st time she tried to punch me she was out of the picture, never had a problem since, she never stalked me or whatever, we're actually quite friendly to this day). So I doubt there's any statistical significance here. Some people are abusive and some not. It has nothing to do with gender or sexual or romatic orientation.
@@LongDistanceCall11 mutual combat rather than abuse is common. People get angry enough to hit people all the time but don't because of the difference in strength - the man is scared he would hurt the woman and the woman doesn't because she knows it won't have as much effect. In a Sam sex relationship those concerns aren't there.
It's the relationship pairing with the most domestic violence. Moreso than Man+Woman and Man+Man. I think in general women tend to really get a pass on how violent they are.
@@Aaron-kj8dv That’s been disproven. The study lumped lesbians who had been abused by men in the statistics. When you adjust for that, the domestic violence rate along lesbians is 29%, compared to about 35% for heterosexual women.
@@julieme7927Oh please, don't be so basic. "the man" is not scared they'll hurt "the woman": just look at domestic violence statistics during high-profile football matches, the attack reports go up whether their team wins or loses, it only goes up _more_ if they lose. The only thing they're afraid of is hurting their own pride.
Stressing about tomorrow is my late night guilty pleasure, must me the masochist in me. Perhaps Dr. Grande can pencil me in and tell me more about the January 6th insurrection? 🤔
I worked as Training Director at a 'non-profit' RTC for ten years and have seem many a misplaced young person with parents that ran the gamut of being overtly negligent to simply unavailable emotionally for their child. The delinquent label sticks and parents should think twice before handing their child over to any institution that can; like Dr. Grande says, open them up to much more seriously disturbed teens as in this case.
To be fair this is what happens when you don't develop a backbone and stand on your own. I'm a guy but I was a shy guy at 18 and ended up attracted to a woman like Victoria. Not realizing that steadfast personality you are attracted to is reflecting your own personality short coming . That relationship taught me about boundaries. Sad tawnee was unlucky and not given that opportunity as well
I wonder how Tawnee’s parents are dealing with their lack of real world knowledge of the penal system, and how it lead to their daughter’s unnecessary death
she is finacially abusing 3 single mothers. they call it gay to stay. while these women pay for everything in the prison system some of them are homeless and one of them almost lost their kid cus of it
Parents, I am begging you, do not call the police on your own children. Do not ask the police to put your daughter into the system. This is not a joke.
Depends on the situation... Tawnee seemed to be going through fairly regular teen issues. Maybe in attempt to get more care from her parents. Placing her in an institution with other people who are likely far worse of than Tawnee was the last thing she needed. I think family therapy would have been a much better option for them.
I agree in a sense - basically I'd say, if a child is a danger to themselves, give them support and not a criminal record. If the child is a danger to others, get authorities involved.
It was Cannabis smoking paraphernalia that was in the car and Tawnee took the blame for all her friends after being pressured. After detention it appeared it was cannabis she used. How sad when cannabis is legal in many states in the US now.
The parents did so many things I'm sure they wish they could change. From reporting their daughter for doing drugs to the probation officer to allowing Victoria to live with them. They had so many chances. As soon as their daughter lost a tooth they should've kicked her out. Not sure why they somehow thought that Victoria was their responsibility? They had to have known how bad her jealousy and rage was. The two fought all the time! They never should have allowed Victoria to stay with them. This girl was unhinged since the beginning. Who knows, maybe she would have killed Tawnee even if she hadn't lived there, but we'll never know and now the parents will always feel the guilt for their decisions. I believe they thought they were being nice. Such a tragedy!!
The parents were 100% right in reporting their daughter to the probation officer for doing drugs. Tawnee needed to be held responsible for her poor and illegal decisions. That said, her parents also made a poor decision by allowing Victoria to live wirh the family and Tawnee made poor decisions by keeping up company with Victoria. Plenty of blame to go around.
@@TomikaKelly I guess you didn't get the memo. People are still seeing drugs as 'bad' but are starting to view users with more sympathy. Basically, as a society we've come to realise that self medication comes from a place of pain and suffering and we now seek to heal our users in more compassionate ways. Imagine if they made alcohol illegal ... again ... What about tylenol? What would your attitude be then?
@@TomikaKelly No. If she had a drug problem, she would need to go to a drug rehab center. Jail, as it is now, is not a place that focuses on rehabilitation, it focuses on punishment and foster care will not make her better either. They gave their daughter a criminal record, they put her in a place where she was forced to interact and befriend other criminals, they hindered her ability to land a good job or a good university in her future. Incarceration is not good for kids mental health and it exposes them to abuse and trauma. Stop relying on the state to do your job as a parent. Police officers are not secondary parents. They do not care about your child (or you) and neither do the correctional officers in those facilities. The maltreatment within is even worse if the child is a minority. It is a fact that incarceration is not an effective strategy when it comes to youth and it instead produces high rates of rearrests compared to probation or alternative programs like youth advocate programs, credible messengers, family therapy, youthbuild, etc, these address lawbreaking outside of the justice system. Sometimes kids offend or become addicts due to undiagnosed mental health problems as well. The longer they're in jail, the higher the chances of them returning. She clearly had a different way of life compared to Victoria; she was not a "career criminal", she wasn't going around assaulting people, commiting armed robbery, driving under the influence, etc. In other words, she wasn't a danger to society or her own parents, she was first and foremost a danger to herself. She needed help and jail is NOT help, it is the opposite of help. I don't think her parents are bad people or that they're the only people to blame in this. I'm sure the guilt they live with is enough punishment on its own. I just think the parents were naive and they paid dearly, I would never ever wish that on any parent. I only comment on this so that it doesn't happen again to some poor child that could've been helped elsewhere.
@@Kalleesto not everyone agrees that drugs should be legal. I’m sure if these little girls weren’t taking drugs this would’nt have happened. Especially while these children already have a horrible life. One of them already came from a life and family of drug addicted people. She’s a murderer! One of the families tried to keep their child away from that life and failed. You can live like a junkie if you like but don’t pretend that parents who don’t want their children to take take drugs are unreasonable lol. Victoria should have been abandoned due to her lifestyle and her history. If you want junkie kids then I feel sorry for you. This clearly isn’t about smoking weed every few months. Your acceptance of this shows how much of an awful person you are. Violently bullying and abusing someone is disgusting.
Because 17 year-olds automatically know the “right decision” 😂. A lot of you people must have lived very sheltered, pampered lives. It’s easy to judge from your high horses. Unfortunately Tawnee’s parents had the same lack of worldly wisdom shown by many people posting here. Believe me, detention centers, police, and parole officers are NOT going to help a troubled teen without heavy duty advocates representing the child. Tawnee’s parents weren’t smart enough to understand the system, and they were apparently too lazy to advocate for their own kid. They tried to make up for it by taking in a psychopath. If they had taken proper steps in the first place (instead of allowing their child to be put in detention) Tawnee would have a career and be giving them grandchildren. PARENTS need to step up to the plate. And if they won’t, the last people who they should expect any kind of reasonable help from are people in the juvenile criminal Justice system. And, yes, I deal with kiddos like both Tawnee and Victoria every day of my life. We need a Sinclair Lewis to expose this very dark, unjust division of society.
Perfect analysis. Been there done that. I'm a survivor. These detention centers, or jails are terrible places filled with very scary people. Even the people who run the places are very often dangerous.
Dr Grande , I think I saw a dramatization of this on “Snapped” You retold the story with well developed characters which, for me is the most important and fascinating attribute of dysfunction and violence addiction
Hi Dr. Grande. Hope you're having a splendid week. This story is the reverse of my story as a teen. I found a good boyfriend & lost him to go back to an abusive two marriages. Still have a beautiful & smart daughter but my point is don't leave a good boyfriend from a juvenile center, just to waste time on two costly dysfunctional divorces. Love your channel, peace to you & yours, Janine Smiley🙂🤩😘😇🤩☕🍩☕🥧🍉🍇🍌🍍🎵🎶
After reading the comments, many people are blaming the father. As a parent of a child with drug use I want your audience to know that parents don't know what to do when faced with this. You make the best decision from advice from professionals. I think parental blaming is not the answer. Hindsight is 20/20. Thanks for the video.
Love you man! I have so many things but thank you for your videos and knowledge. Your voice soothes me. I love how matter of fact your humor is and appreciate your unbiased information.
I agree. Victoria is equally attractive (or as you said just about equally), just not a typical pretty blonde and is more masculine and comes from a poor upbringing.
I was waiting for someone to say this. Victoria wasn't made up and hair done in a feminine way in order to show off her beauty. I think they are (were) a similar level of attractiveness.
Was she though if she ended up being a junkie on probation who got sent to a facility? 😕 Tawnee's peers and age mates are concerned with school, college, accolades and accomplishments but Tawnee was concerned with illicit substances. The fact that she was able to even cross paths with the likes of Victoria hints that she wasn't too much different from her.
Dear Dr Grande - I have been deriving immense pleasure from your I'm not diagnosing anyone ... T Shirt. Am having surgery soon to remove the wiring used in the femur reconstruction surgery that was performed after a nasty road accident. My enjoyment of your channel will be a reliable part of my post operative therapy. I also wish to thank you sincerely for educating me re the risky nature of various situations. Thanks heaps.
Our society's overprotection of sexual minorities will often allow dangerous situations like this one to fester. As long as LGBT remains above reproach, people will continue to be abused into relationships, abused through relationships, and murderered out of them. If there really was the equality that people claimed they wanted, people would be able to question if Tawnee was manipulated and traumatized into a sexual orientation she didn't possess on her own, and comments like this would be worth considering instead of being reported as a hate crime. But that's the disingenuousness of the entire movement, isn't it?
Far more men kill women than women kill women. Should we ban heterosexual relationships? Tawnee and her family didn't report physical abuse to the police because she was over 18.
@Johnny Earp see? You're so drawn up by this philosophy that you can't hear my point, you're arguing a strawman. And you're defending a position you never would if the tables were turned. Like, who says of straight couples where abuse is apparent: "it's none of my business, they're adults." Completely insane point that only comes from an insane philosophy.
Dear Dr. Grande….what a different path in life Tawnee could have had if her parents had placed her in a better rehabilitation center. Very sad, thank you Dr. Grande🌵💕😇from Jean.
Tawnee could have had a better life if she'd cared enough about her own life to not use substances in the first place, especially NOT while on probation. Her parents wouldn't have needed to place her in a rehab center at had she been focusing on school, college, and her future instead of drugs and keeping bad company.
@@TomikaKellySaying that about a 27 year old person is true. But not a 17 year old person. At 17 years old and still in high school you are treated no differently than when you were in elementary school. You must get permission to go to the bathroom still. Little decision making is performed in a day independently. 17 years old and a freshman in college comes with learning good decision making and time management skills. You see examples of peers succeeding. I had so many people I knew that became drug addicts in high school but not so much college.
@vrjanice2 That's NOT how life works. If a 17 year old unalive or assaults someone, they will be tried as an adult. If that 17 year old does it to you, your family member, or your kid you're not going to argue that they're only 17 and thus shouldn't face consequences. At 17 you are responsible for your choices and those choices can determine your future. At 17 you know right from wrong and you know illegal substances are wrong. You DEFINITELY know they're wrong once you end up on probation because of them, yet Tawnee STILL CHOSE to make poor decisions by using them. Our life is a reflection of our choices...
@@TomikaKelly To make this short: in this country there had been times when children as young as 12 were deemed guilty and had been killed after a jury trial. That happened to a Native American girl. Would you want her hung by the neck until she was dead, like she was, or a better way of protecting society from her if she was really guilty. At 12 obviously she knew right from wrong and should have been thinking long about her future and making plans to secure that future as revealed by her sentence. Quite different from that "Candy" woman from Pennsylvania whose story was told on Hulu or Netflix. I saw the original on Lifetime movie years ago with Barbara Hersey playing the person being biographed. A middle aged woman who was bored with her life decided to start an affair with her neighbor/friend's husband. Basically, she planned the murder of the wife and left a baby in the house alone with her mother's corpse. The baby barely survived. A middle-aged woman who suppose to know right from wrong and taking care of her own family. She should have been happily planning her golden years future and not murder. She knew murder was a bad thing: that it was wrong at her mature age. She murdered the woman to get her husband. Her defense was that she was not allowed to express herself growing up and wasn't allowed to say things like the word no. She slaughtered her victim. Since she was a grown mature middle-aged woman who knew right from wrong and had supposedly no mental illness then she must have been found guilty? No, because of her "poor" childhood experience. The end of the movie hurt me to my soul and I was extremely upset. Nobody on that jury cared about the innocent victim. I refused to watch the Hulu version even though people said that I should. The 12 years old Native American girl was hung. Candy was set free, went back to school and has a practice as a Therapist. How about the middle-aged police officer who killed a woman after sexually assaulting her because he panicked and thought he was about to get caught. He knew right from wrong. The town's people refused to convict him for murder or any crime committed against the woman because he had been a hero in the past. Even though he was guilty they felt he needed another chance because of his past good deeds. Those grown people knew right from wrong and chose wrong. Luckily, the woman's father was very wealthy and had friends in the federal government who pled her case which led to the police officer's conviction of denying her rights plus liberties when he killed her. Obviously, those adults were way past 17 years old but still didn't have a full grasp on the concept of right and wrong when it came to their lives and the people that were important to THEM. Right and wrong can be very subjective. Good for you if all your beliefs have been cemented by your 17th birthday. Kids are tried as adults not because of maturity and knowing right from wrong. It allows the judicial keep very dangerous children away unsuspecting society. If they weren't tried as adults they could get out of jail in a matter of months or when they reach 18 years. Again, not because they are mature like a 27 year old would be and know right from wrong. People continue to learn how the world really works as long as they breathe. Your right and wrong is cemented for you. For some other people right and wrong is a moving target based on how it influences their well-being.
That was disproven, actually. Bisexual women have the highest rate. Lesbians have a 29% rate of domestic violence, compared to 35% for heterosexual women
Those parents way to deal with their daughter's problem was brutal! She seemed like a good girl gone lost. Her parents wanted to get rid of a problem rather than solve it. It makes me wonder about the atmosphere in this family. Those parents should protect their child and cure her with love in a good therapy center rather than punish and humiliate her. They exposed this vulnerable girl to dangers of prison-like institution and f..ed up criminal individuals over there. Shame on those parents!
They did what they thought was best at the time, no shame in that whatsoever. People like you shake a finger and find fault in everything, yet I'm sure you're either childless or your children are just peachy. Had they not intervened, she very well could have ended up a full-blown addict or died of a drug overdose.
I remember this case. Victoria was disgusting & evil, what a terrible note. Tawnee sure didn't know what she was dealing with, so sad. Great analysis again. Thanks Dr G😊❤❤
@@russiaprivjet My dad never gave a shit about me until I was older and had more $ than him (that I achieved by myself) and then I refused his financial needs requests because why should I care if he didn't. I was upset about his behavior when I was young. Now he's deceased and I rarely think of him. I guess I grew up to be just like him. Shrug'
It's tragic. It's terrible there weren't support services for either of them. Victoria was still very young. She was redeemable but didn't get the support she needed. Tawnees parents were incredibly stupid. You'd think they didn't have the internet. It's a well known fact that juvenile detention is a school where criminals teach each other how to be better criminals
4/5/23 Rough detention center as it was like jail (maybe Tawny got with Victoria for protection) then scared to break it off after. Idk why Dad didn’t try rehab, sounds harsh to go right to detention center!! Why would you invite more trouble into your home? Wasn’t healthy and blind eye to DV! Tawny,rip💔❤️💜 jail time too short! 25 to life!
It's a terrible shame Victoria was such a trashfire. She really isn't bad looking. There was no need for her to feel so insecure or whatever she was feeling.
Would you please consider covering the case of Josh Duggar and the harmful effects of “purity culture”? (Recommended read: The Great Sex Rescue by Sheila Wray Gregoire)
@@KatherineLaura6564 If only the politicians and the elite rulers were punished to the full extent of the law as are the abandoned children of this world.
Probably one of the best reasons to stay off drugs is so that you can have real friends that can function in society. Don't even experiment with drugs- prevention is better than cure.
It's funny I listen to your videos to fall asleep..but everytime around the middle I gasp awake saying "omg that's terrible and sad!" Then I fall back asleep
Tawnee's father sounds like a horrible person. He turned her in to her probation officer for substance use when he had to know this would result in her incarceration. He sent his daughter to jail for a victimless crime, ultimately ruining her life and leading to her death.
I dont see this at ALL! I see a parent who did not know what to do and thought maybe drug testing could help give her incentive to stop. He seemed like a desperate parent who didn't know how to help her stay clean. If he'd not done anything and let her spiral, everyone would be calling him out for being a deadbeat dad and not caring enough. Being a parent sucks.
@@BobbiGail We live in an age where information is instantly accessible. There is no excuse for ignorance. Either he was lazy, stupid or callous. The man could have easily researched addiction and even the results of youth getting incarcerated in his local area. On top of it they invited a repeat offender into their home? How does that even make any sense? Victoria is the murderer. But as much as I hate to victim blame, I feel the parents are equally responsible for Tawnee's death.
@@jusztinnemeti6380 really? I cannot get info on some schools I was looking into for a relative. They have their websites, but whats it like REALLY? A friend recommended one years ago bc her daughter found success. But what if admin changed? When our youth are at risk we parents want to do ANYTHING to help. It is a very scary spot to be in not knowing what happens beyond walls! We weigh the risk of our child dying by drugs or being destroyed by another experience. We can agree that inviting the offender into the home was a very bad idea. Yes. I have learned more about these "facilities" from the comments than I've ever known. What is the answer- outpatient rehab? How does a parent help?
Why on earth as a parent would you want your child put in a juvenile detention centre for drug usage. Would you not make your own arrangements and get your child put in a treatment facility for drug dependency
Dear Dr. Grande, thank you for covering this case! I was so long intrigued by it and for some reason always took Tawnee as a sympathetic girl. Greetings from Eastern Europe!
Yeah, she could have def used hearing more criticism concerning the relationship from family and friends ... but is anyone (who tries to maintain a level of respectability) honest on social media about their life? Specifically about the bad parts of their life.
Would you analyze the case of Dirk Grineder? He was a doctor that stabbed his wife (former nurse) at a park. It was later uncovered he was a freak and had another side to his life. His children were also doctors and nurses and supported him
So ok we all have our opinions, I'm just sensing there probably aren't many connoisseurs here so I'll give another projection on the situation: for a woman who likes women Victoria is very attractive, while Tony is not. Just bear this in mind when thinking of "more" or "less" "suitable" partners, and of possible grounds for jealousy as well. I'll keep my other thoughts on the case to myself as I had no knowledge before listening to this video and now know only what I heard here, which is absolutely not enough to make any real conclusions, but as far as gay women go, there's little doubt as to who was the attractive party there.
A huge percentage of people disagree with you. You can prove this to yourself by finding 20 homecoming queens from your local high schools, and 20 short, chubby males at each of their schools, and asking the girls if she is in 'their league.' You are taking YOUR incredibly over-optimistic view of what is a naive stance and generalizing it to a population you have probably never interacted with. It's a NICE THOUGHT, but COMPLETELY unrealistic. If you perform the study, publish it, and I am wrong, I will eat 3 copies.
Its the law of attraction that is reproducible across all nations and cultural groups of the planet in mate selection. From TMZ media and hollywood to national geographic tv/media shows of zulu tribes,like attracts like with respect to physical appearance and lifestyle and money. Gonna date a homeless person?
It sounds like a poor relationship with her father was the start of Tawnee's problems. When bad families have a member that does things that start to embarass them, they often become accepting of any unusual behaviors as an overcompensation response to show the public they aren't so bad. It isn't uncommon for whole networks to be dysfunctional to the point where they do not check any concerning behaviors of their members. That short on Narcissism and Their Reluctance to admit mistakes was very helpful. A narcissist I know would never, under any circumstances, admit mistakes even if the same mistakes were made by everyone around.
I've noticed a lot of comments against the parents decisions as they tried to address her substance use. However, it is very difficult to address addiction, substance users become destructive and single minded. I believe they did all they knew to do. Treatment is expensive. Lots of ppl become sober in behavioral health centers and even prison. I don't think having Victoria live in their home was a good idea, but I doubt that Tawnee's family were aware of the abuse and other issues. I can't imagine that Tawnee openly talked about what went on between them. Im deeply sorry for Tawnee's family, I imagine they were trying to love & support their daughter and have compassion for Victoria. I pray Victoria truly repents and finds a relationship w/ God.
That poor child. There needs to be reform in the juvenile justice system. It’s so tragic to hear of juveniles who have a long rap sheet and eventually graduate to murder. Victoria needed much more supervision and intensive treatment when she first started displaying anti social behaviors. They locked both girls up for a period of time and then washed their hands of them. Thanks for your analysis Dr. Grande. Excellent as always
On a serious note, Tawnee did depend on Victoria while in the facility. Then she felt like she owed Victoria what Victoria wanted, a relationship. But Victoria also felt that she now owned Tawnee for her “protection” while inside. Tawnee’s parents failed her by putting her into that vulnerable situation when therapy should have been an option well before that.
Dear Dr G. I was taking to someone re a situation in which I was told that politically correct is the way to go. My opinion was if you are concerned about a situation someone you are connected to is in - I said I would share my concerns including why I was concerned. If the person ignored me = that's fine! But if I did not share my concerns and as In this case the person was murdered, it would be distressing. As I would never know if they would have taken my concerns for their well-being on board! A very sad case with a superb analysis.
According to the pictures, Tawnee and Victoria both looked pretty. Unfortunately, the attractiveness seemed to be only skin deep. Victoria was deeply insecure, and was used to violence and intimidation getting her what she wanted. She didn't know how to regard another person's thoughts or feelings, and it probably didn't much occur to her to try. Now, neither girl has a future. What a tragic shame.
No, he isn't. Drugs is a dark, dangerous world. Tawnee could've met this same fate, AS MANY DO, by overdosing, owing the wrong drug dealer money, or running across the wrong fellow junkie. If anything, he should feel angry that his daughter didn't care enough about her own life and body to not mistreat it with dangerous, illicit substances.
@@TomikaKelly ... She’s dead because of someone she met in lockup, where her father sent her. I would take an overdose rather than a vicious stabbing murder.
Super sad stuff here. Weird, but have seen these strange 'unmatched' relationships more often than seems possible. Dr you nailed it, tho. They needed each other inside, but outside the facility life is translated differently. Ppl need to knock of the parent shaming unless they have dealt with this themselves! It is SO difficult to know what to do and how to help save the child... it is OBVIOUS her parents cared for her.
I'd never heard of this tragedy until now. While Dr. Grande did give a truly insightful analysis, I'm sorry to learn about it. There are so many facets to explore, not least of which is the guilt Tawnee's father must feel for having sent his daughter into the environment that led to this outcome. As any parent who has suffered the most unnatural loss of one of his children, he likely questions every decision he ever made in her life, with the "if only" eating him.
If she was doing drugs she could have easily gotten in trouble with other criminal people. Probably she would still be alive but there are no guarantees.
Lol, no, hun. Drugs is a dark, dangerous world. Had her father not sent Tawnee to a facility, she could've easily overdosed on the streets, got into some trouble with the wrong drug dealer, or ran into another junkie who had nothing to lose and didn't mind taking her out of this life. The reality of the matter is, Tawnee made poor decisions about what she put in her body and who she kept in her life and they ended up costing her her life. There are no what ifs for her parents.
She should never have been sent there by her parents, i know a lot if people who have historically been involved in substance abuse but they've had help not sent to a detention centre. They're still alive and doing well. This is just sad and the parents probably deeply regret sending her there 😔 💔
It sounds to me like that was the attitude of Tawnee’s parents. They had some nerve looking down on Victoria for having tattoos! They must have made a huge deal about them, causing Victoria to want them removed. Who knows what other hate, judgment, discrimination and belittling Victoria had to deal with? She was put into a world where it was made clear to her she couldn’t belong unless she changed.
Amazing that the system thinks putting a teenage addict in a detention center where they can meet actual criminals would be anything but extremely negative. The system traumatizes and re-traumatizes. This goes for the adult system as well.
He reported her and people say that was a bad decision, had he not reported her people would also say that was a bad decision. Everybody has an opinion about what he should have done. I say the father had the best of intentions and tried hard to fix this, the tragedy he now lives through is disproportionate punishment for his lack of good foresight.
There must have been more to Tawny’s behavioral issues. JV lock/ups don’t take just anybody! What kind of parole officers do they have that seem to have no resources? There’s something fishy about this story. Obviously Tawny should not have been brutally murdered, but the details provided about her (as if she was just fine except for a very minor drug incident) are likely quite sanitized. Otherwise incarceration with a bunch of psychopaths probably destroyed her and led to her horrible end.
JV *love* to take in kids who parents are making enough that they can afford the mandatory foster care fees--they don't often get tis chance, but they jump on it when they can.
My very attractive 13-year-old granddaughter told her school counselor she didn't want to live anymore. A female peer had bullied her for resisting a relationship! My daughter had her committed to a residential treatment center and what my granddaughter witnessed there would give anyone nightmares for years. Finally, after it appeared my granddaughter was freaking out...my daughter brought her home and bought her a $500 puppy. Girl is back at school as if nothing happened...seemingly never bringing up suicide ideation again. Best, as you well recommended, out patient therapy. Thanks for another great analysis! 🌹
As a straight male I don't think Victoria is bad looking at all. She was the man in the relationship so obviously she is gonna look more masculine. But she looked pretty decent when dressed as a womean
I woke up later than usual but still love waking up to a new Dr. Grande story.❤️ If only everyone in a DV situation had successfully gotten out, before it turned into this, so many lives would be saved. This story is ridiculously sad. All these stories where anyone is murdered are sad but there's so many things that could've prevented this. That relationship should've been cut off from the start. Its great to try to help someone and by no means is it the parents fault but if someone was treating my loved one, especially a daughter, this bad, I wouldn't allow her to live in my home with my daughter. Their relationship was doomed from the start and I'm amazed how common it seems to be where a spouse or partner ends up killing the person they claimed to love so much.
Small point, but to say one was more attractive than the other is subjective. It is also pretty irrelevant. What is relevant is one was blonde and the other brunette. Now were talking major personality differences!
This case is a tragedy which could easily been avoided. The decision to place her in the detention center was very poor to say the least. Thank you for the review, Dr. Grande.❤
Society decided and voted to criminalize drug use and possession. It is treated the same as theft and murder. Tawnee's death is a consequence of those laws. Why not regulate drugs with the same laws that alcohol, tobacco and prescription medicine are regulated?
….thanks Dad. Maybe that’s not completely fair but I think most parents would have moved heaven and earth to keep their child OUT of a place like that!
Many thanks Linda I was losing hope on the comments on this video… I’m hoping and praying none of them are parents such a harsh, heavy-handed treatment only turns out monsters into society. Why don’t people get it they are so thickheaded and stupid. It’s beyond belief.
How do you put your 17 year old kid in a detention center for using substances, but then say nothing and invite an actual dangerous delinquent to live under your roof with her? People make no sense.
Right I’m trying to think what drug would warrant this punishment?
@@carissachristy9364 any drug is not acceptable.
@@mzee5533 If those are the rules in your household than you’re absolutely correct because you have the power to dictate them anything beyond that is solely your opinion.
Was wondering the same how Victoria was invited to live with Tawnee's family especially at such a young age and being a problematic teenager. Sounds like Tawnee did not have the best family and that resulted in her making poor decisions as well, but she would have had a great future.
The father was the one trying to set her straight and the mother was the enabler that was too soft on her. Maybe her going into the detention center wasn't the best call but then again, she could have just as easily fallen into a relationship with some deadbeat drug addict dude if she hadn't gone in too. Many missed opportunities after the release for her family to set firm boundaries that they just talked themselves into accommodating and accepting choices that were just immature and naive. A conversation along the lines of "you deserve better than someone like Victoria" might have gone a long way.
Domestic violence in lesbian relationships is a common occurrence. Definitely should be talked about more.
How so? I'm in my 40s been through 5 or 6 partnerships myself and got dozens of lesbian friends who i know very well - yet I have met only one girl who has a history of physically abusing her partners. And then again, a few girls let her do that and got involved in answering to that in the same manner, while others never let her (me included, that's my short time ex too, and 1st time she tried to punch me she was out of the picture, never had a problem since, she never stalked me or whatever, we're actually quite friendly to this day).
So I doubt there's any statistical significance here. Some people are abusive and some not. It has nothing to do with gender or sexual or romatic orientation.
@@LongDistanceCall11 mutual combat rather than abuse is common. People get angry enough to hit people all the time but don't because of the difference in strength - the man is scared he would hurt the woman and the woman doesn't because she knows it won't have as much effect. In a Sam sex relationship those concerns aren't there.
It's the relationship pairing with the most domestic violence. Moreso than Man+Woman and Man+Man. I think in general women tend to really get a pass on how violent they are.
@@Aaron-kj8dv That’s been disproven. The study lumped lesbians who had been abused by men in the statistics. When you adjust for that, the domestic violence rate along lesbians is 29%, compared to about 35% for heterosexual women.
@@julieme7927Oh please, don't be so basic. "the man" is not scared they'll hurt "the woman": just look at domestic violence statistics during high-profile football matches, the attack reports go up whether their team wins or loses, it only goes up _more_ if they lose. The only thing they're afraid of is hurting their own pride.
Very well said, Tawnee should have never been put in that place. Thank you Dr. Grande for a look at how not to handle teenage drug use.
This was a common occurrence when I was a teenager in the 80s. I wasn’t aware that kids were still being tossed into lockup chemical dependency units.
Yes.
Tawnee should have never been on substances in the first place. She made poor choices.
She broke her probation?...
@@lisasmith767 We call it prison for adults.
Dr. Grande is one of my late night guilty pleasures! Long as the world keeps spinning, he puts out great content. Have a good one doc!
Stressing about tomorrow is my late night guilty pleasure, must me the masochist in me. Perhaps Dr. Grande can pencil me in and tell me more about the January 6th insurrection? 🤔
I worked as Training Director at a 'non-profit' RTC for ten years and have seem many a misplaced young person with parents that ran the gamut of being overtly negligent to simply unavailable emotionally for their child. The delinquent label sticks and parents should think twice before handing their child over to any institution that can; like Dr. Grande says, open them up to much more seriously disturbed teens as in this case.
To be fair this is what happens when you don't develop a backbone and stand on your own. I'm a guy but I was a shy guy at 18 and ended up attracted to a woman like Victoria. Not realizing that steadfast personality you are attracted to is reflecting your own personality short coming . That relationship taught me about boundaries. Sad tawnee was unlucky and not given that opportunity as well
Same here. I was awarded custody of my son because of the violence from my ex. Dr Grande was describing her as he was describing Victoria.
@@richinderbyshire4779 Your ex stabbed you 48 times?
👏 It's always wonderful to hear about someone's personal growth. I hope you've met or meet a nice person who will treat you the way you deserve.
You gotta be kidding me. You needed to grow a backbone obviously. When the victim of DV" grows a backbone" is when they usually get killed
She was naive, poor thing
People hookup in rehab and it’s always a disaster.
Nothing like a rehab romance
It happens in the psych ward too. I got a lot of girls that were physically out of my league that way. Never works out though.
16 years as a minimum is pretty shocking considering the number of stabs
Yes. She still has to go for the parole board. I hope she gets denied every time she sits in front them.
@@dila4834 Me too.
There’s no way she’s getting paroled after 16 years. Don’t worry.
Vaginal power
It's disgusting. But I'm guessing she'll get in trouble in prison and get a lot more time.
Wow! The over-kill is just brutal and very scary. I wonder how Victoria is coping with her violence in prison.
she is probably thriving there.
She's gay and a bully, so I'd say probably very well.
I wonder how Tawnee’s parents are dealing with their lack of real world knowledge of the penal system, and how it lead to their daughter’s unnecessary death
look. you'll see.
she is finacially abusing 3 single mothers. they call it gay to stay. while these women pay for everything in the prison system some of them are homeless and one of them almost lost their kid cus of it
Parents, I am begging you, do not call the police on your own children.
Do not ask the police to put your daughter into the system. This is not a joke.
If your child chooses to break the law they are choosing to have the police called on them.
@@TomikaKelly Teen drug use is a mental health issue, not a law enforcement issue. Do you think police are babysitters? They kill people.
What if your child steals from you and is violent? Absolute brain dead take by you.
Depends on the situation... Tawnee seemed to be going through fairly regular teen issues. Maybe in attempt to get more care from her parents. Placing her in an institution with other people who are likely far worse of than Tawnee was the last thing she needed. I think family therapy would have been a much better option for them.
I agree in a sense - basically I'd say, if a child is a danger to themselves, give them support and not a criminal record. If the child is a danger to others, get authorities involved.
Heyyy Dr. Grande🥰 Thank you so so much for the new video! & as always, of course, thank you for being here for us insomniacs🩷
It was Cannabis smoking paraphernalia that was in the car and Tawnee took the blame for all her friends after being pressured. After detention it appeared it was cannabis she used. How sad when cannabis is legal in many states in the US now.
Wow. Murder threats in love notes always mean positive things
The parents did so many things I'm sure they wish they could change. From reporting their daughter for doing drugs to the probation officer to allowing Victoria to live with them. They had so many chances. As soon as their daughter lost a tooth they should've kicked her out. Not sure why they somehow thought that Victoria was their responsibility? They had to have known how bad her jealousy and rage was. The two fought all the time! They never should have allowed Victoria to stay with them. This girl was unhinged since the beginning. Who knows, maybe she would have killed Tawnee even if she hadn't lived there, but we'll never know and now the parents will always feel the guilt for their decisions. I believe they thought they were being nice.
Such a tragedy!!
The parents were 100% right in reporting their daughter to the probation officer for doing drugs. Tawnee needed to be held responsible for her poor and illegal decisions.
That said, her parents also made a poor decision by allowing Victoria to live wirh the family and Tawnee made poor decisions by keeping up company with Victoria. Plenty of blame to go around.
@@TomikaKelly I guess you didn't get the memo.
People are still seeing drugs as 'bad' but are starting to view users with more sympathy. Basically, as a society we've come to realise that self medication comes from a place of pain and suffering and we now seek to heal our users in more compassionate ways.
Imagine if they made alcohol illegal ... again ...
What about tylenol?
What would your attitude be then?
@@TomikaKelly No. If she had a drug problem, she would need to go to a drug rehab center.
Jail, as it is now, is not a place that focuses on rehabilitation, it focuses on punishment and foster care will not make her better either. They gave their daughter a criminal record, they put her in a place where she was forced to interact and befriend other criminals, they hindered her ability to land a good job or a good university in her future.
Incarceration is not good for kids mental health and it exposes them to abuse and trauma.
Stop relying on the state to do your job as a parent. Police officers are not secondary parents. They do not care about your child (or you) and neither do the correctional officers in those facilities. The maltreatment within is even worse if the child is a minority.
It is a fact that incarceration is not an effective strategy when it comes to youth and it instead produces high rates of rearrests compared to probation or alternative programs like youth advocate programs, credible messengers, family therapy, youthbuild, etc, these address lawbreaking outside of the justice system. Sometimes kids offend or become addicts due to undiagnosed mental health problems as well.
The longer they're in jail, the higher the chances of them returning.
She clearly had a different way of life compared to Victoria; she was not a "career criminal", she wasn't going around assaulting people, commiting armed robbery, driving under the influence, etc. In other words, she wasn't a danger to society or her own parents, she was first and foremost a danger to herself. She needed help and jail is NOT help, it is the opposite of help.
I don't think her parents are bad people or that they're the only people to blame in this. I'm sure the guilt they live with is enough punishment on its own. I just think the parents were naive and they paid dearly, I would never ever wish that on any parent. I only comment on this so that it doesn't happen again to some poor child that could've been helped elsewhere.
@@Kalleesto not everyone agrees that drugs should be legal. I’m sure if these little girls weren’t taking drugs this would’nt have happened.
Especially while these children already have a horrible life. One of them already came from a life and family of drug addicted people. She’s a murderer! One of the families tried to keep their child away from that life and failed.
You can live like a junkie if you like but don’t pretend that parents who don’t want their children to take take drugs are unreasonable lol. Victoria should have been abandoned due to her lifestyle and her history.
If you want junkie kids then I feel sorry for you. This clearly isn’t about smoking weed every few months. Your acceptance of this shows how much of an awful person you are.
Violently bullying and abusing someone is disgusting.
Because 17 year-olds automatically know the “right decision” 😂. A lot of you people must have lived very sheltered, pampered lives. It’s easy to judge from your high horses. Unfortunately Tawnee’s parents had the same lack of worldly wisdom shown by many people posting here. Believe me, detention centers, police, and parole officers are NOT going to help a troubled teen without heavy duty advocates representing the child. Tawnee’s parents weren’t smart enough to understand the system, and they were apparently too lazy to advocate for their own kid. They tried to make up for it by taking in a psychopath. If they had taken proper steps in the first place (instead of allowing their child to be put in detention) Tawnee would have a career and be giving them grandchildren. PARENTS need to step up to the plate. And if they won’t, the last people who they should expect any kind of reasonable help from are people in the juvenile criminal Justice system. And, yes, I deal with kiddos like both Tawnee and Victoria every day of my life. We need a Sinclair Lewis to expose this very dark, unjust division of society.
Perfect analysis. Been there done that. I'm a survivor. These detention centers, or jails are terrible places filled with very scary people. Even the people who run the places are very often dangerous.
fuck no it isnt. i knew both of them
@@RA.22 Maybe not all of them. But some of them for sure
When you stare into the abyss it stares right back at you
"NEVER BE WITH SOMEONE [YOU KNOW] YOU'RE AFFRAID OF....and worse, they know it."
Dr Grande , I think I saw a dramatization of this on “Snapped” You retold the story with well developed characters which, for me is the most important and fascinating attribute of dysfunction and violence addiction
Really appreciate how many videos you put out. Thanks, Dr. Grande ❤
Hi Dr. Grande. Hope you're having a splendid week. This story is the reverse of my story as a teen. I found a good boyfriend & lost him to go back to an abusive two marriages. Still have a beautiful & smart daughter but my point is don't leave a good boyfriend from a juvenile center, just to waste time on two costly dysfunctional divorces. Love your channel, peace to you & yours, Janine Smiley🙂🤩😘😇🤩☕🍩☕🥧🍉🍇🍌🍍🎵🎶
Dr. Grande! I love how your videos have evolved, and I love your dry humor!
After reading the comments, many people are blaming the father. As a parent of a child with drug use I want your audience to know that parents don't know what to do when faced with this. You make the best decision from advice from professionals. I think parental blaming is not the answer. Hindsight is 20/20. Thanks for the video.
It was pot, Debbie.
This world is so messed up Dr grande will never run out of material..
I clicked this as soon as I saw it pop up on my phone
Uhm... ok?
Love you man!
I have so many things but thank you for your videos and knowledge.
Your voice soothes me. I love how matter of fact your humor is and appreciate your unbiased information.
You're wrong about one thing, Dr. Grande: Victoria and Tawnee are about equally attractive but Tawnee was brought up better and from a better home.
I agree. Victoria is equally attractive (or as you said just about equally), just not a typical pretty blonde and is more masculine and comes from a poor upbringing.
I think she was physically attractive as well. But obviously didn't have an attractive personality.
2:15 Tawnee, hands down.
I was waiting for someone to say this. Victoria wasn't made up and hair done in a feminine way in order to show off her beauty. I think they are (were) a similar level of attractiveness.
Was she though if she ended up being a junkie on probation who got sent to a facility? 😕
Tawnee's peers and age mates are concerned with school, college, accolades and accomplishments but Tawnee was concerned with illicit substances.
The fact that she was able to even cross paths with the likes of Victoria hints that she wasn't too much different from her.
Dear Dr Grande - I have been deriving immense pleasure from your I'm not diagnosing anyone ... T Shirt. Am having surgery soon to remove the wiring used in the femur reconstruction surgery that was performed after a nasty road accident. My enjoyment of your channel will be a reliable part of my post operative therapy. I also wish to thank you sincerely for educating me re the risky nature of various situations. Thanks heaps.
Our society's overprotection of sexual minorities will often allow dangerous situations like this one to fester. As long as LGBT remains above reproach, people will continue to be abused into relationships, abused through relationships, and murderered out of them. If there really was the equality that people claimed they wanted, people would be able to question if Tawnee was manipulated and traumatized into a sexual orientation she didn't possess on her own, and comments like this would be worth considering instead of being reported as a hate crime. But that's the disingenuousness of the entire movement, isn't it?
Far more men kill women than women kill women. Should we ban heterosexual relationships?
Tawnee and her family didn't report physical abuse to the police because she was over 18.
@Johnny Earp see? You're so drawn up by this philosophy that you can't hear my point, you're arguing a strawman. And you're defending a position you never would if the tables were turned. Like, who says of straight couples where abuse is apparent: "it's none of my business, they're adults." Completely insane point that only comes from an insane philosophy.
I agree with you but their end game was to get control of the children and that they have done
@@mikewilliams6025 You are just using this to attack LGBTQ. More men kill women than women kill women.
Dear Dr. Grande….what a different path in life Tawnee could have had if her parents had placed her in a better rehabilitation center. Very sad, thank you Dr. Grande🌵💕😇from Jean.
Tawnee could have had a better life if she'd cared enough about her own life to not use substances in the first place, especially NOT while on probation.
Her parents wouldn't have needed to place her in a rehab center at had she been focusing on school, college, and her future instead of drugs and keeping bad company.
@@TomikaKellySaying that about a 27 year old person is true. But not a 17 year old person. At 17 years old and still in high school you are treated no differently than when you were in elementary school. You must get permission to go to the bathroom still. Little decision making is performed in a day independently. 17 years old and a freshman in college comes with learning good decision making and time management skills. You see examples of peers succeeding.
I had so many people I knew that became drug addicts in high school but not so much college.
@vrjanice2 That's NOT how life works.
If a 17 year old unalive or assaults someone, they will be tried as an adult. If that 17 year old does it to you, your family member, or your kid you're not going to argue that they're only 17 and thus shouldn't face consequences.
At 17 you are responsible for your choices and those choices can determine your future. At 17 you know right from wrong and you know illegal substances are wrong. You DEFINITELY know they're wrong once you end up on probation because of them, yet Tawnee STILL CHOSE to make poor decisions by using them.
Our life is a reflection of our choices...
@@TomikaKelly To make this short: in this country there had been times when children as young as 12 were deemed guilty and had been killed after a jury trial. That happened to a Native American girl. Would you want her hung by the neck until she was dead, like she was, or a better way of protecting society from her if she was really guilty. At 12 obviously she knew right from wrong and should have been thinking long about her future and making plans to secure that future as revealed by her sentence.
Quite different from that "Candy" woman from Pennsylvania whose story was told on Hulu or Netflix. I saw the original on Lifetime movie years ago with Barbara Hersey playing the person being biographed. A middle aged woman who was bored with her life decided to start an affair with her neighbor/friend's husband. Basically, she planned the murder of the wife and left a baby in the house alone with her mother's corpse. The baby barely survived. A middle-aged woman who suppose to know right from wrong and taking care of her own family. She should have been happily planning her golden years future and not murder. She knew murder was a bad thing: that it was wrong at her mature age.
She murdered the woman to get her husband. Her defense was that she was not allowed to express herself growing up and wasn't allowed to say things like the word no. She slaughtered her victim.
Since she was a grown mature middle-aged woman who knew right from wrong and had supposedly no mental illness then she must have been found guilty? No, because of her "poor" childhood experience.
The end of the movie hurt me to my soul and I was extremely upset. Nobody on that jury cared about the innocent victim. I refused to watch the Hulu version even though people said that I should.
The 12 years old Native American girl was hung. Candy was set free, went back to school and has a practice as a Therapist.
How about the middle-aged police officer who killed a woman after sexually assaulting her because he panicked and thought he was about to get caught. He knew right from wrong. The town's people refused to convict him for murder or any crime committed against the woman because he had been a hero in the past. Even though he was guilty they felt he needed another chance because of his past good deeds. Those grown people knew right from wrong and chose wrong. Luckily, the woman's father was very wealthy and had friends in the federal government who pled her case which led to the police officer's conviction of denying her rights plus liberties when he killed her.
Obviously, those adults were way past 17 years old but still didn't have a full grasp on the concept of right and wrong when it came to their lives and the people that were important to THEM. Right and wrong can be very subjective. Good for you if all your beliefs have been cemented by your 17th birthday.
Kids are tried as adults not because of maturity and knowing right from wrong. It allows the judicial keep very dangerous children away unsuspecting society. If they weren't tried as adults they could get out of jail in a matter of months or when they reach 18 years. Again, not because they are mature like a 27 year old would be and know right from wrong.
People continue to learn how the world really works as long as they breathe. Your right and wrong is cemented for you. For some other people right and wrong is a moving target based on how it influences their well-being.
Thank you so much! I remember requesting this video a few months ago. I’m excited to watch and hear your thoughts
Lesbian relationships actually have the highest domestic violence rates of all.
That was disproven, actually. Bisexual women have the highest rate. Lesbians have a 29% rate of domestic violence, compared to 35% for heterosexual women
BS
@@scarlettphoenix7024 No, it's true and gay men have the lowest.
Are we talking about the WNBA ?
this is extremely false
Those parents way to deal with their daughter's problem was brutal!
She seemed like a good girl gone lost. Her parents wanted to get rid of a problem rather than solve it. It makes me wonder about the atmosphere in this family.
Those parents should protect their child and cure her with love in a good therapy center rather than punish and humiliate her. They exposed this vulnerable girl to dangers of prison-like institution and f..ed up criminal individuals over there.
Shame on those parents!
I thought so too, like they went overboard and then at the same time weren't strict enough when she got out.
They did what they thought was best at the time, no shame in that whatsoever. People like you shake a finger and find fault in everything, yet I'm sure you're either childless or your children are just peachy. Had they not intervened, she very well could have ended up a full-blown addict or died of a drug overdose.
I remember this case. Victoria was disgusting & evil, what a terrible note. Tawnee sure didn't know what she was dealing with, so sad. Great analysis again. Thanks Dr G😊❤❤
No she is not disgusting!she loved tawnee but tawnee alway cheating on her and talk with other ppl to make her mad!
I wonder how Tawnee's father feels now about his decision to intervene in her legal issues
Hopefully, like garbage.
seriously
@@russiaprivjet
My dad never gave a shit about me until I was older and had more $ than him (that I achieved by myself) and then I refused his financial needs requests because why should I care if he didn't. I was upset about his behavior when I was young. Now he's deceased and I rarely think of him. I guess I grew up to be just like him. Shrug'
@@PoM-MoM you sound insane
@@cht2162 Exactly! As a parent, you do the best you can at the time with the information and (hopefully good) advice you have.
It's tragic. It's terrible there weren't support services for either of them. Victoria was still very young. She was redeemable but didn't get the support she needed.
Tawnees parents were incredibly stupid. You'd think they didn't have the internet. It's a well known fact that juvenile detention is a school where criminals teach each other how to be better criminals
Remember after 9/11 the American government was locking up innocent Arabic men and then they'd be radicalized in those prisons by actual terrorists.
Good Day, Dr. Grande. I saw this coming from Miles Away! Thanks for all of your Very helpful informative Analyses. 👌
4/5/23 Rough detention center as it was like jail (maybe Tawny got with Victoria for protection) then scared to break it off after. Idk why Dad didn’t try rehab, sounds harsh to go right to detention center!! Why would you invite more trouble into your home? Wasn’t healthy and blind eye to DV! Tawny,rip💔❤️💜 jail time too short! 25 to life!
That poor girl. Why the hell did her dad do her like that over small mistakes.
MENDOZA!!!
Doing class work and watching my favorite doc! =)
Ya see, this is why all assault knives must be banned.
It's a terrible shame Victoria was such a trashfire. She really isn't bad looking. There was no need for her to feel so insecure or whatever she was feeling.
Would you please consider covering the case of Josh Duggar and the harmful effects of “purity culture”? (Recommended read: The Great Sex Rescue by Sheila Wray Gregoire)
he’s already done duggar
Callous move by her father after walking out on her at the beginning of her life.
@@KatherineLaura6564 Please do us all a favor and never have kids
@@KatherineLaura6564believing in the system was their biggest mistake, as Dr grande himself said
@@KatherineLaura6564 If only the politicians and the elite rulers were punished to the full extent of the law as are the abandoned children of this world.
"Blossoms into Stabbing". With titles like that, Dr Grande.. I think you should write dark comedy.
Traditional goals, like a singer .
Don’t worry about Victoria. She’ll do well in prison.
Probably one of the best reasons to stay off drugs is so that you can have real friends that can function in society. Don't even experiment with drugs- prevention is better than cure.
It's funny I listen to your videos to fall asleep..but everytime around the middle I gasp awake saying "omg that's terrible and sad!" Then I fall back asleep
Tawnee's father sounds like a horrible person. He turned her in to her probation officer for substance use when he had to know this would result in her incarceration. He sent his daughter to jail for a victimless crime, ultimately ruining her life and leading to her death.
100 percent agree.
I don't like to judge but I also have to agree ..I'm sure he has . REGRETS 😕
I dont see this at ALL! I see a parent who did not know what to do and thought maybe drug testing could help give her incentive to stop. He seemed like a desperate parent who didn't know how to help her stay clean. If he'd not done anything and let her spiral, everyone would be calling him out for being a deadbeat dad and not caring enough. Being a parent sucks.
@@BobbiGail We live in an age where information is instantly accessible. There is no excuse for ignorance. Either he was lazy, stupid or callous. The man could have easily researched addiction and even the results of youth getting incarcerated in his local area. On top of it they invited a repeat offender into their home? How does that even make any sense? Victoria is the murderer. But as much as I hate to victim blame, I feel the parents are equally responsible for Tawnee's death.
@@jusztinnemeti6380 really? I cannot get info on some schools I was looking into for a relative. They have their websites, but whats it like REALLY? A friend recommended one years ago bc her daughter found success. But what if admin changed? When our youth are at risk we parents want to do ANYTHING to help. It is a very scary spot to be in not knowing what happens beyond walls! We weigh the risk of our child dying by drugs or being destroyed by another experience. We can agree that inviting the offender into the home was a very bad idea. Yes. I have learned more about these "facilities" from the comments than I've ever known. What is the answer- outpatient rehab? How does a parent help?
Only 16 years for stabbing someone over 40 times. Murder...WTF
Hahaha I can't stop laughing in the 'stab safe' part. God! I love this channel so much
❤
Why on earth as a parent would you want your child put in a juvenile detention centre for drug usage. Would you not make your own arrangements and get your child put in a treatment facility for drug dependency
I think Victoria is what we would call rough as a badger’s arse - English is such a flexible language
😀😆🙂😀❤️
Dear Dr. Grande, thank you for covering this case! I was so long intrigued by it and for some reason always took Tawnee as a sympathetic girl. Greetings from Eastern Europe!
There's been a couple of episodes about this case on the ID Channel.
Dr. TODD GRANDE appreciate your videos Listening 🌼 From Mass USA TYVM 🇺🇸 Todd Grande Blessings for everyone ♥
Her defense: "It was a prank bro"
Yeah, she could have def used hearing more criticism concerning the relationship from family and friends ... but is anyone (who tries to maintain a level of respectability) honest on social media about their life? Specifically about the bad parts of their life.
Would you analyze the case of Dirk Grineder? He was a doctor that stabbed his wife (former nurse) at a park. It was later uncovered he was a freak and had another side to his life. His children were also doctors and nurses and supported him
So ok we all have our opinions, I'm just sensing there probably aren't many connoisseurs here so I'll give another projection on the situation: for a woman who likes women Victoria is very attractive, while Tony is not. Just bear this in mind when thinking of "more" or "less" "suitable" partners, and of possible grounds for jealousy as well.
I'll keep my other thoughts on the case to myself as I had no knowledge before listening to this video and now know only what I heard here, which is absolutely not enough to make any real conclusions, but as far as gay women go, there's little doubt as to who was the attractive party there.
Every birthday, the Baird family and Handsome immediately are in my thoughts as this tragically occurred the very same day
There is no such thing as being "out of someone's league". This is a foolish and naive stance that superficial, vain and insecure people use.
A huge percentage of people disagree with you. You can prove this to yourself by finding 20 homecoming queens from your local high schools, and 20 short, chubby males at each of their schools, and asking the girls if she is in 'their league.' You are taking YOUR incredibly over-optimistic view of what is a naive stance and generalizing it to a population you have probably never interacted with. It's a NICE THOUGHT, but COMPLETELY unrealistic. If you perform the study, publish it, and I am wrong, I will eat 3 copies.
Its the law of attraction that is reproducible across all nations and cultural groups of the planet in mate selection. From TMZ media and hollywood to national geographic tv/media shows of zulu tribes,like attracts like with respect to physical appearance and lifestyle and money. Gonna date a homeless person?
It sounds like a poor relationship with her father was the start of Tawnee's problems.
When bad families have a member that does things that start to embarass them, they often become accepting of any unusual behaviors as an overcompensation response to show the public they aren't so bad.
It isn't uncommon for whole networks to be dysfunctional to the point where they do not check any concerning behaviors of their members.
That short on Narcissism and Their Reluctance to admit mistakes was very helpful. A narcissist I know would never, under any circumstances, admit mistakes even if the same mistakes were made by everyone around.
I've noticed a lot of comments against the parents decisions as they tried to address her substance use. However, it is very difficult to address addiction, substance users become destructive and single minded. I believe they did all they knew to do. Treatment is expensive. Lots of ppl become sober in behavioral health centers and even prison. I don't think having Victoria live in their home was a good idea, but I doubt that Tawnee's family were aware of the abuse and other issues. I can't imagine that Tawnee openly talked about what went on between them.
Im deeply sorry for Tawnee's family, I imagine they were trying to love & support their daughter and have compassion for Victoria. I pray Victoria truly repents and finds a relationship w/ God.
Yesss king go off
Cactus crew 🌵
@@privard89 cactus crew 4 life!!
Her parents have blood on their hands.
Pretty sure Victoria is the one with blood on her hands.
That poor child. There needs to be reform in the juvenile justice system. It’s so tragic to hear of juveniles who have a long rap sheet and eventually graduate to murder. Victoria needed much more supervision and intensive treatment when she first started displaying anti social behaviors. They locked both girls up for a period of time and then washed their hands of them. Thanks for your analysis Dr. Grande. Excellent as always
On a serious note, Tawnee did depend on Victoria while in the facility. Then she felt like she owed Victoria what Victoria wanted, a relationship. But Victoria also felt that she now owned Tawnee for her “protection” while inside. Tawnee’s parents failed her by putting her into that vulnerable situation when therapy should have been an option well before that.
Dear Dr G. I was taking to someone re a situation in which I was told that politically correct is the way to go. My opinion was if you are concerned about a situation someone you are connected to is in - I said I would share my concerns including why I was concerned. If the person ignored me = that's fine! But if I did not share my concerns and as In this case the person was murdered, it would be distressing. As I would never know if they would have taken my concerns for their well-being on board! A very sad case with a superb analysis.
Spent time in youth lockup in my teens.
WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY worse than jail ever was
Parents of the year award
According to the pictures, Tawnee and Victoria both looked pretty. Unfortunately, the attractiveness seemed to be only skin deep. Victoria was deeply insecure, and was used to violence and intimidation getting her what she wanted. She didn't know how to regard another person's thoughts or feelings, and it probably didn't much occur to her to try. Now, neither girl has a future. What a tragic shame.
I bet dad is feeling terribly guilty... as he should.
She also could have stopped taking drugs after the wake-up call or refrained from taking them from the start
@@ember1794 ... She’s dead, she feels nothing and has no regrets.
No, he isn't. Drugs is a dark, dangerous world. Tawnee could've met this same fate, AS MANY DO, by overdosing, owing the wrong drug dealer money, or running across the wrong fellow junkie.
If anything, he should feel angry that his daughter didn't care enough about her own life and body to not mistreat it with dangerous, illicit substances.
@@TomikaKelly ... She’s dead because of someone she met in lockup, where her father sent her. I would take an overdose rather than a vicious stabbing murder.
@@TomikaKelly
Your way of thinking, is so twisted and dark. You must’ve been beaten as a child,
right ❓
Intentionally trying to get your daughter sent to prison on a probation violation seems like a bad parenting strategy.
Super sad stuff here. Weird, but have seen these strange 'unmatched' relationships more often than seems possible. Dr you nailed it, tho. They needed each other inside, but outside the facility life is translated differently. Ppl need to knock of the parent shaming unless they have dealt with this themselves! It is SO difficult to know what to do and how to help save the child... it is OBVIOUS her parents cared for her.
I'm sure they definitely did care, I think they were in unfamiliar territory
Victoria should never be released from prison!
I'd never heard of this tragedy until now. While Dr. Grande did give a truly insightful analysis, I'm sorry to learn about it. There are so many facets to explore, not least of which is the guilt Tawnee's father must feel for having sent his daughter into the environment that led to this outcome. As any parent who has suffered the most unnatural loss of one of his children, he likely questions every decision he ever made in her life, with the "if only" eating him.
If she was doing drugs she could have easily gotten in trouble with other criminal people. Probably she would still be alive but there are no guarantees.
Lol, no, hun. Drugs is a dark, dangerous world. Had her father not sent Tawnee to a facility, she could've easily overdosed on the streets, got into some trouble with the wrong drug dealer, or ran into another junkie who had nothing to lose and didn't mind taking her out of this life.
The reality of the matter is, Tawnee made poor decisions about what she put in her body and who she kept in her life and they ended up costing her her life.
There are no what ifs for her parents.
She should never have been sent there by her parents, i know a lot if people who have historically been involved in substance abuse but they've had help not sent to a detention centre. They're still alive and doing well. This is just sad and the parents probably deeply regret sending her there 😔 💔
I don't get the whole "Tawnee was SOO much more attractive than Victoria" section. They were both pretty.
It sounds to me like that was the attitude of Tawnee’s parents. They had some nerve looking down on Victoria for having tattoos! They must have made a huge deal about them, causing Victoria to want them removed. Who knows what other hate, judgment, discrimination and belittling Victoria had to deal with? She was put into a world where it was made clear to her she couldn’t belong unless she changed.
Are you blind? Victoria is not pretty.
Amazing that the system thinks putting a teenage addict in a detention center where they can meet actual criminals would be anything but extremely negative. The system traumatizes and re-traumatizes. This goes for the adult system as well.
He reported her and people say that was a bad decision, had he not reported her people would also say that was a bad decision. Everybody has an opinion about what he should have done. I say the father had the best of intentions and tried hard to fix this, the tragedy he now lives through is disproportionate punishment for his lack of good foresight.
I, for one, would not say it was a bad decision not to report her. I think reporting her was lazy, irresponsible, cruel, and stupid.
Actually, no. He shouldn't have called the cops on his daughter. He should have parented her. She was his underage child.
There must have been more to Tawny’s behavioral issues. JV lock/ups don’t take just anybody! What kind of parole officers do they have that seem to have no resources? There’s something fishy about this story. Obviously Tawny should not have been brutally murdered, but the details provided about her (as if she was just fine except for a very minor drug incident) are likely quite sanitized. Otherwise incarceration with a bunch of psychopaths probably destroyed her and led to her horrible end.
JV *love* to take in kids who parents are making enough that they can afford the mandatory foster care fees--they don't often get tis chance, but they jump on it when they can.
My very attractive 13-year-old granddaughter told her school counselor she didn't want to live anymore. A female peer had bullied her for resisting a relationship! My daughter had her committed to a residential treatment center and what my granddaughter witnessed there would give anyone nightmares for years. Finally, after it appeared my granddaughter was freaking out...my daughter brought her home and bought her a $500 puppy. Girl is back at school as if nothing happened...seemingly never bringing up suicide ideation again. Best, as you well recommended, out patient therapy. Thanks for another great analysis! 🌹
The puppy was a fantastic idea. Now your granddaughter has a loyal friend no matter what happens in her social life.
I know when I stab my closest friends we always use a safe word in the event they start to pass out.
As a straight male I don't think Victoria is bad looking at all. She was the man in the relationship so obviously she is gonna look more masculine. But she looked pretty decent when dressed as a womean
lol no
NO!
I woke up later than usual but still love waking up to a new Dr. Grande story.❤️ If only everyone in a DV situation had successfully gotten out, before it turned into this, so many lives would be saved. This story is ridiculously sad. All these stories where anyone is murdered are sad but there's so many things that could've prevented this. That relationship should've been cut off from the start. Its great to try to help someone and by no means is it the parents fault but if someone was treating my loved one, especially a daughter, this bad, I wouldn't allow her to live in my home with my daughter. Their relationship was doomed from the start and I'm amazed how common it seems to be where a spouse or partner ends up killing the person they claimed to love so much.
LOL in Texas, they'd say that girl "was a rough old cob" LOL
Small point, but to say one was more attractive than the other is subjective. It is also pretty irrelevant. What is relevant is one was blonde and the other brunette. Now were talking major personality differences!
This case is a tragedy which could easily been avoided. The decision to place her in the detention center was very poor to say the least.
Thank you for the review, Dr. Grande.❤
I'm not saying Victoria is a good person but I do think she's really pretty.
Her parents failed her utterly.
Society decided and voted to criminalize drug use and possession. It is treated the same as theft and murder. Tawnee's death is a consequence of those laws. Why not regulate drugs with the same laws that alcohol, tobacco and prescription medicine are regulated?
….thanks Dad. Maybe that’s not completely fair but I think most parents would have moved heaven and earth to keep their child OUT of a place like that!
Many thanks Linda I was losing hope on the comments on this video…
I’m hoping and praying none of them are parents such a harsh, heavy-handed treatment only turns out monsters into society. Why don’t people get it they are so thickheaded and stupid. It’s beyond belief.
Hello 👋 good Dr. Grande 😊🎉
What a story! I can’t believe it. What a mess.
Nothing more dangerous than a weak person who wants to be tough
No good deed goes unpunished.
silly statement. The majority of good deeds turn out great.
Calamity clams.
Rough around the edges and in the middle. These people can be identified in childhood, many red flags missed.
Always interesting.
Thank you
Peace 💕🇺🇲
Sadly some people seem to go down a bad path and never return. There's only so much others can do