Soldiers carried shells in all kinds of different pouches. Canteen pouches and claymore mine bags were especially popular since they held a lot of shells. The M1956 ammo pouches were widely used because everyone had them.
I will say reloading out of the 1956 pouch wasn't terrible. Especially if you can pack the shells in a way that they draw with the same orientation. That will definitely shift with movement but the first reload or two would be a little smoother for it.
@@triplefshooting Closing the flap while loading or moving is close to impossible since it requires fine motor skills that go away with speed and stress. That’s why the larger pouches worked well. Snapping the top of a canteen pouch leaves enough room to reach the shells, but not so much that they bounce out while moving. Claymore pouches work the same way but have gotten ridiculously expensive for what they are.
Excellent -- Carried a Savage/Stevens 77E in a recon unit (was a medic, not point) in the highlands. Excellent weapon for close in, jungle environment -- very durable. We all had pistol belts, bit usually only the officers had the suspenders, and we only had one officer who ever actually went on missions, so loading was noticeably different -- used an old battery bag for ammo... 00-buck of course... after watching this, one oddity -- I never shoulder-fired the 77E, even when fired in anger -- maybe especially then, in fact to this day I've never shoulder-fired a shotgun... hmmmm. Always like the ability to "top up" the weapon without having to run totally dry...
How often did you see shotguns while in service? I always wonder if they were reserved for special occasions (mostly guard duty) or if the were issued more regularly than people tend to think.
Of the usually 17-18 guys in our unit (three teams), we generally had 2-3 shotguns of various types... actual weapon was our preference, don't recall anyone telling us what we had to carry... most had CAR-15s, but given that our targets were seldom more than 8-10 meters away, the 77E was a good choice if one wanted to use it...
Good shooting. I read a story about a point man in Vietnam carrying his M16 and the guy next to him had a browning auto 5. The guy with the auto 5 was killed after he shot his five shots at a group of enemies and did hit a couple of them but was killed during the reload. I wonder why the military doctrine at the time called for a shotgun up at the front? Just more lead in a direction through brush when they came under fire.? My great grandpop who is still living at 103 was the pointman for his US Army unit during the occupation of the Philippines in WWII. He was a mechanic so no frontlines, they did patrols around their bases/encampments. He carried his BAR and 12 magazines and a canteen. The guy upfront with him would always have a shotgun he said he remembers auto 5’s and pumps. He isn’t sure what pump shotguns he’s not really a gun guy he just knew what an auto 5 was because they would call it the humpback.
Wow what a story! Hope your great grandpa is doing well and getting to spend lots of time with family. We plan to do an m16 video in comparison to the shotgun to hopefully illustrate the issue you bring up. There are definitely reasons to run a shotgun in a combat setting, but they're extremely niche. Thanks again for sharing. Awesome to hear from people with real experiences.
From my reading, carrying a shotgun was mostly done by personal preference, as opposed to doctrine. Especially in specialized units such as reconnaissance units or the SEALS, where guys had a lot more leeway to select their own equipment. Although some regular units would equip pointmen with shotguns when they were in densely forested terrain where max visibility was well under 10m most if not all of the time. I think the most famous shotgun user in Vietnam was James 'Patches' Watson, and his rationale (IIRC) was that if he ever needed to shoot while operating as a pointman, it was going to be at point-blank range , and against a target he may or may not have a clear visual on. Usually someone encountered at very close distances while walking down a trail, or pushing through heavy brush. If he spotted them at a distance outside the effective range of his shotgun, his job was to communicate that info to the patrol leader, and then the whole team would set up for an ambush, or withdraw - depending on the threat and the mission. He felt that in that context, the massive short-range firepower of a shotgun was more useful than that of a rifle, even with the limited ammo capacity and slow reload time. When operating in more open terrain, or serving as a team leader he preferred to carry a Stoner 63.
@@madaxe606 that has been my exact understanding as well from reading. Thick brush in parts of the Philippines were definitely similar to conditions in Vietnam.
I have a 77c and id like to convert it to a version like yours. doubt it will happen tho. I need to order afew parts , red buttpad ,barrel band sling swivel, sling, and paint for the wood , color black. Chop the barrel 20 inches long.
It looks like you can still get some of those items through ebay but it can be difficult. If we ever get really crazy we could get a gunsmith that would parkerize it. I keep thinking about it but it wouldn't make it more valuable to anyone but me.
The US military had a pretty wide variety before the 80s. WW1 had at least 3 different ones, with that number increasing a bit through vietnam. They didn't seem to simplify and standardize on one shotgun until fairly recent
Not necessarily. There were still even 1897s being used in vietnam. From what I understand, the 77 was predominantly given to the south vietnamese and use by MPs. The military used a pretty wide array of weapons still in Vietnam. The 1897, model 12, ithaca 37, stevens 620, 77, and probably 520s were all still in use. By the end of it, the winchester 1200 and remington 870 were starting to be used as well
Soldiers carried shells in all kinds of different pouches. Canteen pouches and claymore mine bags were especially popular since they held a lot of shells. The M1956 ammo pouches were widely used because everyone had them.
I will say reloading out of the 1956 pouch wasn't terrible. Especially if you can pack the shells in a way that they draw with the same orientation. That will definitely shift with movement but the first reload or two would be a little smoother for it.
@@triplefshooting Closing the flap while loading or moving is close to impossible since it requires fine motor skills that go away with speed and stress. That’s why the larger pouches worked well. Snapping the top of a canteen pouch leaves enough room to reach the shells, but not so much that they bounce out while moving. Claymore pouches work the same way but have gotten ridiculously expensive for what they are.
Excellent -- Carried a Savage/Stevens 77E in a recon unit (was a medic, not point) in the highlands. Excellent weapon for close in, jungle environment -- very durable. We all had pistol belts, bit usually only the officers had the suspenders, and we only had one officer who ever actually went on missions, so loading was noticeably different -- used an old battery bag for ammo... 00-buck of course... after watching this, one oddity -- I never shoulder-fired the 77E, even when fired in anger -- maybe especially then, in fact to this day I've never shoulder-fired a shotgun... hmmmm. Always like the ability to "top up" the weapon without having to run totally dry...
Thanks for the info! I always appreciate stories from those that were there. Thanks for your service as well.
How often did you see shotguns while in service? I always wonder if they were reserved for special occasions (mostly guard duty) or if the were issued more regularly than people tend to think.
Of the usually 17-18 guys in our unit (three teams), we generally had 2-3 shotguns of various types... actual weapon was our preference, don't recall anyone telling us what we had to carry... most had CAR-15s, but given that our targets were seldom more than 8-10 meters away, the 77E was a good choice if one wanted to use it...
The first new firearm I ever bought was a 16 gauge Stevens 77F. Special ordered it from Holgate Hardware in 1964. It sits in the corner of my office.
Good shooting. I read a story about a point man in Vietnam carrying his M16 and the guy next to him had a browning auto 5. The guy with the auto 5 was killed after he shot his five shots at a group of enemies and did hit a couple of them but was killed during the reload. I wonder why the military doctrine at the time called for a shotgun up at the front? Just more lead in a direction through brush when they came under fire.?
My great grandpop who is still living at 103 was the pointman for his US Army unit during the occupation of the Philippines in WWII. He was a mechanic so no frontlines, they did patrols around their bases/encampments. He carried his BAR and 12 magazines and a canteen. The guy upfront with him would always have a shotgun he said he remembers auto 5’s and pumps. He isn’t sure what pump shotguns he’s not really a gun guy he just knew what an auto 5 was because they would call it the humpback.
Wow what a story! Hope your great grandpa is doing well and getting to spend lots of time with family. We plan to do an m16 video in comparison to the shotgun to hopefully illustrate the issue you bring up. There are definitely reasons to run a shotgun in a combat setting, but they're extremely niche. Thanks again for sharing. Awesome to hear from people with real experiences.
From my reading, carrying a shotgun was mostly done by personal preference, as opposed to doctrine. Especially in specialized units such as reconnaissance units or the SEALS, where guys had a lot more leeway to select their own equipment.
Although some regular units would equip pointmen with shotguns when they were in densely forested terrain where max visibility was well under 10m most if not all of the time.
I think the most famous shotgun user in Vietnam was James 'Patches' Watson, and his rationale (IIRC) was that if he ever needed to shoot while operating as a pointman, it was going to be at point-blank range , and against a target he may or may not have a clear visual on. Usually someone encountered at very close distances while walking down a trail, or pushing through heavy brush. If he spotted them at a distance outside the effective range of his shotgun, his job was to communicate that info to the patrol leader, and then the whole team would set up for an ambush, or withdraw - depending on the threat and the mission.
He felt that in that context, the massive short-range firepower of a shotgun was more useful than that of a rifle, even with the limited ammo capacity and slow reload time. When operating in more open terrain, or serving as a team leader he preferred to carry a Stoner 63.
@@madaxe606 that has been my exact understanding as well from reading. Thick brush in parts of the Philippines were definitely similar to conditions in Vietnam.
Very nice TY for sharing
I have a 77c and id like to convert it to a version like yours. doubt it will happen tho. I need to order afew parts , red buttpad ,barrel band sling swivel, sling, and paint for the wood , color black. Chop the barrel 20 inches long.
It looks like you can still get some of those items through ebay but it can be difficult. If we ever get really crazy we could get a gunsmith that would parkerize it. I keep thinking about it but it wouldn't make it more valuable to anyone but me.
First time I heard of this shotgun. Always thought us milltary uses mossberg 590
The US military had a pretty wide variety before the 80s. WW1 had at least 3 different ones, with that number increasing a bit through vietnam. They didn't seem to simplify and standardize on one shotgun until fairly recent
Muy excelentes arma amigos saludos chebres
Historically accurate outfit 👍
Hopefully Ebay brings a uniform or two before the next video lol
That’ll be pretty awesome to see
@@GreedyDoctor the uniform looks pretty rough. Going to try to get some black pajamas for a vietnam ak video too
@@triplefshooting welcome to the rice fields
Did the Stevens 77 replace the Winchester Model 12 in military use after 1964?
Not necessarily. There were still even 1897s being used in vietnam. From what I understand, the 77 was predominantly given to the south vietnamese and use by MPs. The military used a pretty wide array of weapons still in Vietnam. The 1897, model 12, ithaca 37, stevens 620, 77, and probably 520s were all still in use. By the end of it, the winchester 1200 and remington 870 were starting to be used as well
@triplefshooting what about the Mossberg 500 or 590A1?
🇪🇨🇪🇨👍