One important note I forgot to mention in this video is that when the P42 made an appearance, Amtrak was only running 1/3 of Wolverine services after a brutal winter storm. Despite only running 1/3 of trains, Amtrak apparently either didn't have enough working Chargers to push/pull the Wolverine or didn't trust them enough in the cold to run on their own.
Why is the US buying foreign locomotives that are assembled here to satisfy "American" made. Doesn't the US have the ability to build quality engines anymore?
@@thomasmoran9114 The USA has more than enough capability to build modern passenger Locomotives. There is some degree of politics that is preventing this from happening. Siemens seems to have an inside deal as even Japan is not in the market to build for the American Locomotive market.
@@hb7898 untrue, the USA has had HSR in the northeast because the population density supports it. The bulk of the north American continent is too big and sparse for HSR though it is in development in regions. California is building it's system right now and Las Vegas will connect to it. For the time being air is the most economical means of fast transport.
The reason of why they didn’t trust them is because they refuse to work right after seeing a single snowflake 70 miles away! If Amtrak pros]deeds with using Siemens equipment, they will have a very rough time to keep trains on time and trains will just continue to be late no matter how Amtrak trains to fix it.
Siemens is usually really good as their equipment is used in most of Europe and some parts of China with almost no issues. Something is deeper at play here. Whether it is actually the manufactures in the US or some quality control in Germany which is again. Not this common.
It probably has to do with the subcontractors used to do the interior and plumbing given that brightline is using the same cars but somehow these problems are exclusively a Amtrak issue
@@spenceradams2908 exactly. I talked with my contact in Germany and he said he hasn’t heard anywhere near the same problems overseas as with Amtrak is currently. So, it is definitely here
Aren't the engines a big problem on the Amtrak Chargers? Siemens builds mostly electric locomotives for other markets because they're not stuck with un-electrified networks.
@@nolunchiseverfree I’ve heard it’s mostly their trucks. They freeze on colder temps. The engines could be another reason. they’re most famous for electric locos. But they build a verity of locomotives. The ER20 diesel I believe is their latest one, And their other hybrid locomotives.
I’m a child of the 1960s and as a very young child, I remember my trips on the Santa Fe El Capitan and the California Zephyr. I should be more of a rail fan than I am. I seriously should be ready to retire from the railroad but alas, I ended up on a different career track. I ended up working in airplane maintenance for an airline. Your video reminds me that the airlines are equally plagued with equipment delays and problems. The Boeing 737 Max should immediately come to mind for most airline passengers but also, the 787 continues to have issues that delay deliveries to the airlines. Going back in time in railroad history, the ALCO PA was supposed to compete with the EMD “E” series locomotives but suffered huge reliability issues. I think that there’s a nature of the beast, as it were, that sometimes, new equipment will have issues that need to be worked out. Amtrak doesn’t need to waste valuable equipment resources in order to meet minimum axle requirements. They used to haul fresh produce on the Southwest Chief in box cars painted silver. Maybe Amtrak can create a new revenue source and solve two problems at the same time. Just a thought.
Me too I was born in 1949 I remember Santey Fee with Club Cars wher'es Mother drank Wine and played Cards Games, the Coloured Porters were Wonderful to Children. When I eloped with my Mexican Wife on 1988 Train from Chicago to Arlinsaws another Coloured Porter was Harryliously said "Saiyd if the woman (Mi 15 Year Old Wife) is borthering you I cin had her removed""" She Looked Acaredy, it was a Joke- I was 17 Years old LONG HAIR HIPPY/ I am nowe and RETIRED HOBO.
It blows my mind how the quality differs from what we get in Europe and what you get in the US. People in the US also always complain about Mercedes and BMW quality (which are made in Mexico and some in the US), while you basically can't get any higher quality cars here in Europe (besides Porsche and Rolls-Royce maybe). Now the same issues with Siemens, which don't seem to have these problems in Germany, Austria, Spain and all the other countries where they are used.
One thing I wonder is if the cold in the Midwest gets to them. It’s a lot colder here than in Germany. Or frankly most of Europe outside of Russia. The Horizon cars also had issues with the cold for a long time.
11 месяцев назад+1
@@thetrainhopper8992 These are the same wagons as with the ÖBB Railjet and CD Railjet as well as CD Interjet. They also create the cold.
The Brightline trains seem to be doing well, although they run in warmer weather & it's all level-platform boarding unlike many Amtrak stops. Can't wait to see the Siemens Velaro Novo when they're running on Brightline West.
@@tonywalters7298 none, but they also run once a week. That's been increasing a little lately. They won't do full service until there's a bigger fleet so they don't run into crew training issues.
I would just like to point out that Amtrak also uses chargers on the surfliner and cascade’s services and you never hear stories of chargers having a hard time in those areas
@@admiralfrazier306 I go to Freighthouse Square to railfan alot. When the SC-44 #1402 was scrapped, my heart was broken. He had only that morning run on his new life. My roommate and I love the low profile and long sleek look of the Chargers. Still, they are better than the disasterous EMD F125's. What every happen to them by the way?
@@crsrdash-840b5 Don't know, I'm in Seattle, we don't use the F125. As far as I can tell the only company that use them is the LA Metrolink. Apparently, from what I was told, Amtrak went to GE and asked them to upgrade the P42, but GE said no, so we went to Siemmens.
I must say that this is quite surprising as here in Europe Siemens is an incredible rail manufacturer, the Siemens Vectron can be seen in huge numbers all over where I live, i mean for example today i saw 4 of them at my local stations sidings. Although it seems useful to mention that the new ICE 4 that i got to ride on an international vacation had a beautiful but cheaply made interior, my footrest couldnt stay up on its own and i was in first class.
11 месяцев назад+2
Das der ICE 4 ne beschissene Innenausstattung hat. Liegt aber nicht an Siemens 🥹 (That the ICE 4 has a shitty interior. But it’s not up to Siemens)
Having railfanned in Southeast Michigan for pretty much my whole life, it’s quite honestly sad to see how much the midwest services have fallen from grace, engines that can’t handle the cold, new cars that have LEAD in their pipes, etc. It’s a situation that Amtrak really needs to solve soon or things are going to start going wrong in ways that they simply can’t fix. On a side note, this was SO well done, you’ve earned yourself a new subscriber.
The states don’t design, build, operate and maintain the cars/engines. Siemens and Amtrak do that, which there are serious deficiencies as to how they were designed and built. The states do have a role in this, where if something goes REALLY wrong, they can come in and slap siemens/amtrak on the wrist. You are right however, they are owned by the states.
@@michiganrailfanfilms353 Teething issues honestly. Rarely does new equipment work properly upon introduction. Edge cases creep in that nobody thought of.
Siemens equipment seems to work pretty well in many other countries around the world. In case you were unsure, it gets pretty cold in a lot of European countries. I think what you might be looking at, is the old problem of a horse, designed by a committee, ends up as a camel. The hand rails breaking, that's obvious. Poor quality materials and workmanship.
i repaired Siemens AC traction systems for years that was built in the early 90's. It was not an easy system to deal with. But I agree, their equipment is top notch.
LMAO, the corporate apologism is hilarious. Siemens signed a contract to deliver equipment that could perform to specifications given by Amtrak - who has 40 years of experience and data to inform their operational requirements. The fact Siemens equipment is not measuring up to even contracted specifications reflects poorly on nobody but Siemens.
@@GintaPPE1000 I dont know and not sure how bad the problems are? Between the SD70MAC - Siemans, SD70ACE - Mitsubishi and GE - GE built traction inverters/ components, they all had problems. I thought the Mitsubishi system was the easiest to deal with. But they all had problems, even brand new from the factory.
In every country. I watched 'builders' slap together a 2 bedroom unit/town house behind my house, here in Australia. They'd never get any work from me.
Interestingly, Siemens Locomotives in Europe (For Example the ES64U2, Also called Taurus) are pretty much unkillable. Here in Austria, we have ~400 Taurus Locos and some Vecrons from Siemens, and have a really good reliability.
@@blacksmeim8791 Also the ER20 'Hercules' (which are the predecessor of the Vectron DE & Charger locos) have been in service reliably for over 20 years now.
Why we buying all this foreign crap. Open up the steel.mills this is silly. Fix the nation so we can take care of ourselves, enough with this NWO devil crap.
Siemens products are top class all over Europe. It's weird that apparently there are so many problems with them in the US. I wonder what the real problem is.
They have to modify their products to conform with North American railroad standards, including U.S. Federal Railroad Administration crashworthiness standards.
From what I've seen the real problem is the service they are assigned. Being run hard for long distance in harsh conditions. Not many places in the world have high demand service for 6000km continuous with little to no servicing. North American Locomotive are designed for a 92 days of operation between shop service. And can see 20-30 years between rebuild. I don't know of any EU operations being this way.
@@maciekkra539 American workmen build operate and maintain other locomotives too and they don't have the problems Siemens has. Your comment makes no sense.
The Siemens engines are essentially tunnel motors, but with a significant difference. On a tunnel motor, the top can be automatically sealed with louvers, heating the inside if the temperature drops too low. At rest, these louvers would bang open and closed, really neat to see. The Siemens locomotives do not have this feature and the engine clogs up with snow then freezes. Siemens has been adding insulation, but with the snows melting tests will have to be put off till next year. The air intakes on the cars are the same as on the engines, Problem #1. The plumbing problem is also there, but happened afterward as Problem #2.
The Siemens engines were tested, failed, and the order was held up by the GAO in 2019. The new administration was seduced by Siemens into reinstating the order over GAO objections. Wonderful.
When the Amtrak PO for new engines was sent in to the GAO for fulfillment, the GAO ordered no Genesis engine full rebuilds. Only minor repairs, after all, the old Genesis engines were being sent out for scrap. Unfortunately, the Siemens engines were defective and the order put on hold. So now, new defective engines and old engines without major rebuilds when needed. Wonderful.
Crazy enough, according to one St. Louis railfan friend of mine, on behalf of an Amtrak locomotive engineer he’s spoken to, the BLET attempted to have their input on the cab design but Siemens shut them out and threw them off the property, and of course the guy also said that operating these units was one of his worse experiences.
That's interesting to hear because a lot of designs these days take ergonomics into account. Of course they are pushing for driverless trains all over so there's that.
@@unepintade If Siemens fitted their standard cab design, it'll be based on the universal German cab design introduced in the 80s. Which was so successful that it's become the de facto European standard. And ergonomics were one of the main reasons for this design. So not sure what you're trying to imply here.
Thank you for making this video. I was an early optimist for the introduction of Siemens equipment - even went out of my way to be on the first revenue runs of the ACS-64 and SC-44 - but at this point the problems are far too deep and systemic to ignore. Aside from the mentioned Venture and Charger issues, the ACS-64s have been getting progressively worse as Siemens throws more and more botched software updates at them and their parts support contract expires so Amtrak will have to start buying replacement transformers with their own money (which is why most Sprinters are being retired by the Airos). I’m sure Amtrak will get these issues fixed - they have to at this point because they’ve bet too heavily on Siemens. But I’ve lost hope that we’ll see the Charger or Venture create another dynasty like the F40s, Genesis, Amfleets, or Superliners did. They’ll simply do their job and be discarded, like the E60s or HHP-8s.
It appears to be one problem. “Over the course of the past couple of weeks, Siemens Mobility has been working closely with Amtrak to identify the root cause of a number of isolated incidents of ALC42 power loss occurring under very specific and unusually extreme circumstances, where the locomotive experiences drastic changes in temperature. As a result, we’ve identified both a software solution and an additional hardware improvement that will eliminate the issue experienced. The software update has been implemented to the entire fleet, greatly reducing the potential for incidents. The hardware modification, replacement of a pipe, will be completed as quickly as possible. The [issues were] not encountered on other Charger locomotives, which have different power arrangements than the long-distance ALC42 locomotives.”
@@GrantMcWilliams Interesting to hear. I've been off this thread for three months but checked in. Can you explain what pipe and why it needs to be changed? This reminds me of working with second hand GE U series locomotives. An old retired Chief mechanic from the BN told me about governor issues with the U boats in extreme cold because an oil line would plug up with thick oil. GE provided a kit with different copper oil tubes that were routed up on top of the engine block to "fix" the issue. I still have a couple of these kits from 20 years ago in my parts pile. They were issued to a railroad that never installed them.
@@GrantMcWilliamsIf it were just that issue alone, then the Midwest SC-44s wouldn't have poor reliability, let alone continue to have poor reliability after a few years of Siemens being on the issue. VIA too is underutilizing their SCV-42s: they have 14 sets on property, and don't even run as many Corridor services with them as Amtrak Midwest runs Charger services.
I used to work for the Budd Company in Philadelphia where we built the first Amtrak trains and they were built to last 100 years. Back in the late 70’s and 80’s we were building the best trains in the world. It’s a shame that the tracks sucked until they started putting in concrete ties. It was the Germans (Thysen) who bought us out and shut us down. We still have our regional rain system running cars we built in 1968 even though GE got that contract they subcontracted them cars to the Budd Company and these cars are 100 times better than the new cars from Hyundai which have underframes cracking and the cars drop below the platforms.
Sad to hear of the reliability issues of Siemens coaches and locomotives. It makes you question why the locomotives were not more fully tested before such a massive order was placed.
The engines and coaches are derivatives of models that have been in service in Europe and other countries for years. The Chargers are basically Vectron DE engines which have been in service in Germany since 2011. Its predecessor, the ER20 'Hercules' (which shares many parts) was introduced in Austria in 2001 and has been operating reliably for the last 20 years (after some initial teething problems, like most vehicles have). The Venture coaches are derived from the Viaggio Comfort line of coaches, which is also extensively used all over the world and in various climates. Again, they dont seem to have the same problems anywhere else... (not even with other operators in the US!)
The reason is they had no choice. GE refused to deal with Amtrak again: they were raking in money with the Evolution series, and the GEVO-T4 engine is too tall to fit in a carbody that met Amtrak’s loading gauge requirements. MPI’s MP54AC is completely unsuited for intercity use, and the HSP46 is just garbage. EMD’s F125 is an even bigger pile of shit than either. Among rolling stock builders, Hyundai Rotem has no intercity passenger coach design, Nippon Sharyo folded after the bilevel deal fell through, CAF completely botched the Viewliner II order, and Bombardier’s only design is the Superliner, which doesn’t fit Amtrak’s needs.
They were tested, failed, and the order was held up by the GAO in 2019. The new administration was seduced by Siemens into reinstating the order over GAO objections.
VIA Rail has been having similar teething issues with their new fleet of Chargers + Venture coaches. You can imagine that the winter weather issues are even more acute on the Quebec-Windsor corridor in the middle of January. Hoping that they'll iron out the bugs sooner rather than later, as VIA's fleet is aging even faster than Amtrak's.
@@marengtech313 They’ve only done a single test run with passengers between Montreal and Quebec City this winter. The portion between Montreal and Ottawa is where they’ve done the most testing (with or without passengers), as VIA owns the Alexandria Sub.
Every new equipment has problems, including the P42's you praise as a savior. I can agree with you on one thing, although it has advantages no company, certainly a big one like Amtrak, should put all it's eggs in one basket and should have a wider variety of equipment providers. Siemens has excellent equipment but the fact that most big rail companies in North America work now almost exclusively with one company and one type of rolling stock is not a good strategy.
Having one type of equipment is actually a really good strat in the long term. Yeah, you're more vulnerable if an issue is detected, but parts and labor standardization allow for much lower rates than having 7ish different types of cars amtrak has now. Just because you're bound to have teething issues early on doing this, 95% of the time will be issue free with the advantages.
Absolutely. When working for J&J in raw materials engineering, we had a big push for second source suppliers. Relying on one supplier is asking for trouble.
All new equipment is going to all have problems. what they need to do is have Amtrak rep to be a the plant and do their own point inspections before it leaves the plant. Also i understand about diversifying their fleet but no American or any other companies have put in bids to Amtrak for creating light rail equipment that will work with the parameters that Amtrak has to work with. so Siemens was the only ones that stepped up and the only reason i thing they went them is because of how they worked out for Brightline in Florida.
@@paulkoza8652 This is a bit different than that though. Amtrak getting a second type of railcar from a different manufacturer wouldn't be very easy and straightforward, while being decently costly as it would have to be designed from the ground up.
i worked in a locomotive repair shop. The tooling to work on multiple types of equipment is so expensive. Not to mention all the training and software. It can be overwhelming.
They caught all sorts of trash while they new engine sat frozen on a crossover for hours. Blocking freight in both directions. 15 below zero. Entire incident streamed life on railcam Minnesota. You speak truth. BNSF finally had to push them
SC-44s have completely taken over from P59PHIs on the Pacific Surfliner, and SC-44s are used on most NCTD Coaster trains. We have no troubles with them. Siemens Venture cars are coming soon to California, also.
@@nglo5 - At first, the Venture cars will expand the fleet. The existing Surfliner and California cars are only about 30 years old; they are due for a mid-life refit, but not replacement. The Venture cars, however, will make the trains more accessible to mobility impaired riders. The fact that passengers in wheelchairs have no food service may be the critical factor that hastens the departure of the Superliner-like bi-level cars of California before they turn 50.
@@nglo5 The Venture cars will start on Amtrak California, the Surfliner Califonria cars (numbered in the 6000s) will go to the Surfliner for the next 7-8 years, I haven’t heard anything about replacement for Amtrak Surfliner.
There’s definitely plenty of trouble with them lol. They had to send a dash 8 on surfliner trains for a few days not too long ago and Coaster has frequently been seen using their F59PHIs to sub in for broken down siemens equipment. Amtrak in LA has a 24/7 on site rep from siemens whose job is basically to decode anything that’s wrong with those engines. Don’t know of any other railroads with problems that bad
@@Amrepdude499 - Maybe you saw a F59PHI on a Coaster train, but that doesn't mean it was doing anything besides hauling a train. I saw a F59PHI on a Coaster last week, myself. But I also see many SC-44's pulling Coaster and Amtrak train. NCTD does not have a lot of extra locomotives, given that they only ever had two F59PHI's, and the rest were F40PHM-2C from M-K.
As for why the quality issues aren't being reported in the mainstream media: sadly, it's happening in "flyover country", between the coasts As long as the Acela Express get the bigwigs up and down the Northeast Corridor on time (relatively speaking), without any mishaps, then it really doesn't matter to them. Start having issues like this between DC and Boston, and the networks (and the politicians) would be on like stink on poop. (All in all, a fitting simile, I believe.) When the Amtrak Cascades derailed and landed on I-5 some years back, that garnered attention because it was on the West Coast. If that happened in Nebraska, probably would have been about a 15 second blip, and that's it.
11 месяцев назад
If a train derails here in Germany, and there are dead or injured. Is it like a plane crash 🥹
This seems to be an Amtrak Problem because VIA Rail’s Chargers are having no problem currently and up here in Canada we get wild weather, as of now some of them are in service Brightline doesn’t seem to have any problem either.
This is completely false. Brightline has had a ton of issues with their Venture+Charger sets. But they are a private company and are extremely tight lipped. They literally have NDAs for the technicians to sign. But this is not the problem. All new equipment will necessarily have teething issues. This is just a law of nature. The real problem is that the US based foamers hate anything new on the railroad so they always try to create drama. It's all fake.
VIA is operating a single Charger set in revenue service right now, even though they have 7 on property and they’ve all been spotted testing. That says to me there’s a pretty big problem.
Surprising to see Amtrak return to Siemens again. After the charger I thought they’d be begging GE to develop a replacement. That being said I haven’t heard any such problems out of the bright line Siemens down here in Florida.
11 месяцев назад+1
But Siemens is better. Siemens is one of the best train manufacturers in the world 🤷♂️ I even think Siemens is the best train manufacturer.
One of those P42s recently blew a turbocharger on the EB California Zephyr, which not only put the engine out of service and caused a 12 hour delay, but spread thick black oil over all the windows of the train just before it entered the Rockies.
There have been at least two Amtrak Midwest SC44s that have blown out engine parts from the engine room too, but lets not mention that..... The P42s are aging, and the Midwest SC44s are still unreliable after 5 years. Heck, they even had to bring out a P42 for the Carbondale trains on a 60 degree day this weekend because of no working Chargers left. Oh, and the Hiawatha on thursday had 3 chargers for a 3 car train.
Out of HOW MANY YEARS OF CONSISTENT WORK IN ALL WEATHER SCHEMES vs Siemens not even 6 years old being plagued with issues? ALL OF THEM.. Never a good sign when you can't even start up one on an INAUGURAL RUN and have a P42 step in and "help". Any problems with GE vs Siemens have been few and far between in relation to these prospective incoming new models that seem to keep having issues. Whether it is quality control or poor materials or bad engineering while construction, it's a bad omen for something barely on the tracks long enough to have this many problems out the gate and still continue to keep having.
When the Amtrak PO for new engines was sent in to the GAO for fulfillment, the GAO ordered no Genesis engine full rebuilds. Only minor repairs, after all, the old Genesis engines were being sent out for scrap. Unfortunately, the Siemens engines were defective and the order put on hold. So now, new defective engines and old engines without major rebuilds when needed. Wonderful.
Viaggios are well proven cars. But the "Made in USA" requirements means they can,t just transplant prpoduction line to USA , they need to get "made i USA" parts here and there to meet the quota and that means new car with new problems. (thougt, lead for drinking water system has no excuse and shows someone asleep at the switch). Do you have any information on what problems prevent Amtrak Midwest from using Café and Business class Venture cars ?
I believe Amtrak Midwest just took delivery of the first batch of Business Class Venture cars, and AM hasn't finished certifying them and training staff for service yet. AFAIK, none of the Cafe cars have even been delivered yet -- whether that's an AM decision, the order of completion, or delays in design considerations or production, I don't know. (Although I could be wrong on everything I've heard and relayed here.)
Whether parts were sourced in the US or from Europe is irrelevant. Siemens is responsible for ensuring their suppliers meet the standard expected by both them and their customer. American suppliers had no problem supplying very high-quality parts for the Amfleet, Horizon, and especially Superliner fleets - those cars are still giving more reliable service 10-15 years past their designed expiration date than Siemens’ new Eurotrash.
@@GintaPPE1000 Whenever you have a product that is service-proven but is then exported and forced to use different supliers/parts, it begs for problems. If Viaggios use an HVAC system built by some Dutch company, it can't just ask some US manufacturers to build the same part because the US mnufacturer does not have the rights to make another company's model. So they make something equivalent and Siemens needs to integrate the different "made in USA" HVAC it into the Venture cars. Multiply this with each part that is sourced differently as well as the FRA requirements, and you have a a Veture car that is significantly different from Viaggios. With regards to Amfleet and Horizon: Amtrak has long ago take over maintenance and parts sourcing since the original manufacturers are long gone and when you have a large fleet, you can afford to test a new replacement part on a few cars to debug them before rollout on whole fleet as each car goes through maintenance cycle. This is different than a brand new car that is being launched and never put into production before .
How is this not a failure of the American train signal system design? What if we wanted to run a 3-car DMU? What if we wanted an articulated 4-car DMU to operate safely?
It is a failure of American infrastructure. The problem is getting people to accept that America could possibly get anything wrong, SURELY we couldn't do anything wrong! It's not like Siemens builds equipment all over the world with no issues or anything. Oh wait.......
I loved this video! It brings to light the many problems the Amtrak venture cars bring. I really enjoyed this video and can’t wait to see what else you have in store!
Gotta wonder if the fault is in endless customizations that Amtrak tends to demand. Definitely one of the factors that clobbered Acela's performance. Also, as some other comments mention, the Buy America requirements mean a manufacturer has to essentially redesign a locomotive or coach because of the volume of components that have to be replace with USA-made parts. Take something that works great and completely redesign it - it probably won't work great anymore.
I don’t think it was Amtrak with the Acela, but the FRA demanding more structural strength which caused the cars to end up a few inches wider than expected. Regulators in this country are experts at killing railroads.
The FRA assumes trains will crash, so it demands everything be overbuilt. It’s a crazy philosophy that only a government bureaucracy could come up with.
@@Neville60001 The FRA standards that keep European rail equipment from coming to the US without significant modifications don't prevent crashes. The standards are focused on preventing cabin penetration and crush, which is definitely a worthwhile goal. However, the FRA doesn't seem very interested in preventing accidents in the first place by improving signalling and operations. OTOH, rail accidents do still happen in Europe and some of them have been quite awful. I think there's a middle ground between demanding armored cars on rails (FRA) and expecting dispatchers to never make an error (Europe).
I was on Wolverine 355 to and from Kalamazoo last month and tbh, the siemens venture seats are not nearly as comfy. Not looking forward to them replacing the Talgo 8s on cascades north. And then up here in Fargo, I've been on 4 empire builders this winter, three of which were routed south direct from Fargo to Minot due to pretty mild cold weather between Fargo and Grand Forks
Note for future videos, lower the video's volume over your narration. It's hard to hear you speaking when all I can hear in the background is "Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!"
As a European, I have to say that it is a miracle that a modern train can run on these Third World tracks at all without derailing. - Say what, three trains derail every day? Why am I not surprised?
Its a similar story with the Hitachi AT300s (Classes 800 to 803) here in the UK From Leaking Air Conditioning Units, Overheating Engines, Software Issues, Problematic Power Changeover Sequences to Cracks in the Lifting Brackets and now Fatigue and Cracks in the Body Shells, The list goes on...
The first run of Siemens locomotives in local service had teething problems, and now the ALC42 Chargers are pooping the bed in long distance service...lots of temperature-related and PTC issues.
Having just returned from a month travelling around the US by rail I'm finding these issues with the Charger locomotives interesting but it's hard to find any detailed explanation of what exactly the problems are. On our trip we only saw one Charger - the Coast Starlight had one paired with a P42. The SW Chief and California Zephyr both had 2 x P42s. Since the P42s seem to be proven technology would you know why GE wasn't asked to build the replacements?
Both GE and EMD (two major players of locomotives) in the US are hardly as involved today as they once were. The freight railroads aren't buying new locomotives, but opting to rebuild older ones instead, and since passenger rail is so niche in the US market, there was no incentive to create a new passenger locomotive design knowing Amtrak was the only major player in the country. Now that Amtrak's older P40s and P42s are becoming worn out, Siemens was the only manufacturer who offered a brand new passenger locomotive on the market, leaving very little choice for Amtrak
I'm certain the American factories are cutting corners to save money. This is the same reason why when buying Japanese cars, i.e. from Toyota or Honda, it's recommended you buy ones made in Japan verses made in the USA. That way, you can avoid America's corporate greed leading to poorly manufactured products.
American built Toyotas and Hondas are just as good as the Japanese cars. The whole idea that Japanese-built=better is a myth that’s been floating around for decades. Toyota and Honda even build premium luxury models (Lexus and Acura) in America.
Thank you fir sharing the good looking trains. Yes, I hear about Antrak and what they do for service. I do love Antrak service out of Chicago. My Mother would always pay fir for First Class cabin suite for to enjoy the views going out west. Many people in general love seeing and traking train rides. There just seem to be politics in this industry like the just like the airlines. But we, the people, still love to travel. Same with the interstate highways. People buy our new cars and trucks and take a long trip in them. Our country, hahaha!! I still and I still travel. You learn as you get older you deal with our whole transportation system. And we all that we get to our destination safely. Life in our great country.
From what I heard the main problem with the chargers is that the air intake for the engine is on the bottom of the locomotive and as the trains go dirt and debris gets clogged in those air intakes causing the engine to overheat, that combined with problems with the new electronic systems glitching and causing the PTC to fail.
Amtrak should have split the locomotive order between Siemens and Progress Rail (former EMD). Doing this to add more F125 Locomotives. It seems GE and EMD do not want to make passenger locomotives.
To ensure proper shunting of track circuits. There have been numerous instances (though they still are extremely rare) of railroad crossings failing to activate in time due to insufficient electrical contact between wheel and rail.
Amtrak had no hand in ordering the SC44s and Venture cars. They purchased by a consortium of Midwest states and California with funds from the Obama stimulus. At the time there was no tier IV high HP passenger locomotive capable of 110+mph speed. Mistakes were made and they weren’t properly tested in Midwest winter conditions. Granted the P42s they replaced were struggling too in the winter. Amtrak sort of remedied it by running two P42s coupled together to deal with snow shorting own traction motors. Another big issue is Siemens never had the subcontractor network that GE and other builders had so spare parts for the Chargers are hard to come by. Fixes for the Midwest units have been identified and will begin within the year on their quarter life overhaul.
I thought Metra was crazy for commissioning the SD70MACHs but now I see there was a method to the madness. They were proven locomotives optimized for American railroads. Now Metra doesn’t have to deal with all the problems that the Siemens Charger has. The MACHs work just as well as the freight trains that use the same tracks.
Recognize some of these places. 1:17 - Ann Arbor, Barton park 2:45 - Ypsilanti, Depot Town 4:30 - Chelsea, near Chelsea Milling co. 5:25 - Ann Arbor off Main st
Siemens builds very reliable locomotives, both diesel and electric (Vectron, EuroSprinter, EuroRunner) in europe. So if locomotives of Siemens are not running reliably in US of A, it is probably not the fault of Siemens but that of the US of A.
@@doctorhabilthcjesus4610 Canada also uses similar Railway tech also we'll upgrade our "stoneage technology" when we cut all funding to NATO and so you Europoors can deal with Russia yourselves.
As others have said Siemens trains have a good reputation in Europe for reliability. In the UK we are having issues with our new high speed fleets from Hitachi, with rough riding, cracks in the bogies/trucks, loose interior fittings and seat cushions wearing out after a few years. Perhaps the common issues the UK Railways and Amtrak have is overreliance on a single supplier and/or having trains built to a too low price point resulting in corners being cut.
11 месяцев назад+1
UK should simply order the Velaro and you’re done. British series 373
It's surprising just how short these passenger trains are. I'm used to seeing 12 passenger cars per train, often doubled up to 24. Service needs to improve to drive demand, yet without demand there's no will to improve service so it's just stuck there. Not to mention car dependency in cities means people are left practically stranded at their destinations so they avoid the train.
I've noticed that NCTD is putting two SC-44 Chargers on many of their trains, and they are still 4 or 5 cars long, not Comic-Con length. The trailing Charger is always shut-off. My guess is that the second Charger is there to take over if the lead one breaks. Remember that each Charger is about 1,000 HP more powerful that F40PHM-2C or F59PHI that they replaced. I recently rode a Surfliner with just one Charger and, I think, 8 bi-level cars, and it went up Sorrento Grade without a hitch. Apparently, NCTD is not as happy with their reliability.
@@therailcinema technically they’re running them in revenue service usually every Tuesday Montreal to Ottawa, two train sets since November. Right now a third train set is doing a Montreal-Toronto Test I’ve heard.
So far they haven’t had any issues. So I guess anything made for Amtrak turns into liquid shit
11 месяцев назад
If you take a Siemens train in Europe. Then you know that you can expect good quality. I regularly drive the Siemens Desiro HC from RRX, and they are great. Really never have problems, and train drivers are thrilled that they are so reliable.
The straight-electric ACS64 Sprinter has been reliable for 9 years. But the SC44/ALC42 Chargers are a different animal based off a similar platform but with a diesel engine. And with Tier-4 regulations and other manufacturers not having much to offer, I think there are at least 200 Chargers ordered total. Some haven’t made headlines, but that’s mainly in warmer climates. I knew ordering that many that soon by several agencies would be risky. Just because the Sprinter is reliable in varied northeastern weather as is most European-made Siemens, doesn’t mean everything Siemens is great.
I wondered why AMTRAK hadn't partnered with Alstom instead. Although all new locomotives have teething problems, granted, this has lasted for a while. Call me a sucker, but nothing beats the design of these AmFleet II. They look so cool and unique.
Not great news for Via Rail, we have 3 trains of the 32 bought, they ran one day a week in winter on Ottawa Montreal Quebec City routes, no doubt with similar issues. Too bad, they look great on Brightline trains
the problem is the American manufacturing. The QC from Europe clearly has not translated well to the states, as seems to be the case with almost any product from cars to heavy equipment. It's still pretty shocking to me that the Chargers are using off the shelf Cummins engines. It shows that Siemens is not well versed in Diesel manufacturing and needed to rely on a third party vendor for the prime mover. For the electric trains of course it's all a Siemens custom design. I wonder how Alstom (and its subsidiaries) would have approached the Charger project since they have more experience with Diesel power.
11 месяцев назад+1
Where does the Alstom have more experience in diesel trains than Siemens?
People forget that the GE models started as AMD 103, then got renamed P40DC. The upgraded version is called the P42DC. They have a mono body design instead of a bolted, which makes working on them far easier.
Those cars are not in service. Just being tested. The first org to get in service cars from Siemens is WSDOT Cascades, due 2027, maybe sooner. But, they first need to past testing in Pueblo, CO. Siemens has an issue with designing equipment for being used on freight tracks. Most tracks in the US is owned by a freight rail company. Freight tracks are built differently than high-speed rail tracks are.
2 cents, Amtrak = Federal Gov I'm sure we put in a requirement that this and that piece part must be made by a "small business" "minority business" blah blah blah This gives business a leg up and gets them into markets where the teething problems are amplified exponentially by having multiple sub-contracts in the "statement of work or Request for proposal" Happens every single time the Feds get involved. I've been involved in Gov contracting for the past 22 years and that's just the way it is. The state level projects and deliverables never have as many problems arise since they usually aren't trying to include some sort of agenda. They just want what is proposed. Amtrak has also been a Semi-disaster financially and operationally since 71 when it was born.
Because government always choses lowest bidder and you dont see GE making passenger locos anymore, Pullman is dead so we went to CAF for our long distance stuff which is great actually. I would love to see CAF Superliner IIIs but we dont really have much choice in engine manufacturers like we used to and for every Gem there will be a blunder.
Makes you wonder if they should have taken the money spent and just rebuilt the p42 fleet. Or better still, 40 series emd’s never seem to die, they just keep getting rebuilt 😂. If metra and some other operators kept the 40’s running this long its possible
Locomotive Manufacturers right now care about whether the train looks more European or not to keep up with the rest of the world infrastructure, which can be fine IF said European looking train would work properly, which based off of what every locomotive engineer is saying about these locomotives, they aren't.
All those crossing-gates should have CAUTION - HIGH-SPEED TRAINS signs on them. BTW... I'm still waiting to see some of these new locomotives on the Empire Corridor of NY.
Авто/Мото
One important note I forgot to mention in this video is that when the P42 made an appearance, Amtrak was only running 1/3 of Wolverine services after a brutal winter storm. Despite only running 1/3 of trains, Amtrak apparently either didn't have enough working Chargers to push/pull the Wolverine or didn't trust them enough in the cold to run on their own.
Why is the US buying foreign locomotives that are assembled here to satisfy "American" made. Doesn't the US have the ability to build quality engines anymore?
@@thomasmoran9114 The USA has more than enough capability to build modern passenger Locomotives. There is some degree of politics that is preventing this from happening. Siemens seems to have an inside deal as even Japan is not in the market to build for the American Locomotive market.
American is decades behind fast modern railroads
@@hb7898 untrue, the USA has had HSR in the northeast because the population density supports it.
The bulk of the north American continent is too big and sparse for HSR though it is in development in regions.
California is building it's system right now and Las Vegas will connect to it. For the time being air is the most economical means of fast transport.
The reason of why they didn’t trust them is because they refuse to work right after seeing a single snowflake 70 miles away! If Amtrak pros]deeds with using Siemens equipment, they will have a very rough time to keep trains on time and trains will just continue to be late no matter how Amtrak trains to fix it.
Siemens is usually really good as their equipment is used in most of Europe and some parts of China with almost no issues. Something is deeper at play here. Whether it is actually the manufactures in the US or some quality control in Germany which is again. Not this common.
It probably has to do with the subcontractors used to do the interior and plumbing given that brightline is using the same cars but somehow these problems are exclusively a Amtrak issue
Yeah
@@spenceradams2908 exactly. I talked with my contact in Germany and he said he hasn’t heard anywhere near the same problems overseas as with Amtrak is currently. So, it is definitely here
Aren't the engines a big problem on the Amtrak Chargers? Siemens builds mostly electric locomotives for other markets because they're not stuck with un-electrified networks.
@@nolunchiseverfree I’ve heard it’s mostly their trucks. They freeze on colder temps. The engines could be another reason. they’re most famous for electric locos. But they build a verity of locomotives. The ER20 diesel I believe is their latest one, And their other hybrid locomotives.
I’m a child of the 1960s and as a very young child, I remember my trips on the Santa Fe El Capitan and the California Zephyr. I should be more of a rail fan than I am. I seriously should be ready to retire from the railroad but alas, I ended up on a different career track. I ended up working in airplane maintenance for an airline.
Your video reminds me that the airlines are equally plagued with equipment delays and problems. The Boeing 737 Max should immediately come to mind for most airline passengers but also, the 787 continues to have issues that delay deliveries to the airlines.
Going back in time in railroad history, the ALCO PA was supposed to compete with the EMD “E” series locomotives but suffered huge reliability issues. I think that there’s a nature of the beast, as it were, that sometimes, new equipment will have issues that need to be worked out.
Amtrak doesn’t need to waste valuable equipment resources in order to meet minimum axle requirements. They used to haul fresh produce on the Southwest Chief in box cars painted silver. Maybe Amtrak can create a new revenue source and solve two problems at the same time. Just a thought.
Me too I was born in 1949 I remember Santey Fee with Club Cars wher'es Mother drank Wine and played Cards Games, the Coloured Porters were Wonderful to Children. When I eloped with my Mexican Wife on 1988 Train from Chicago to Arlinsaws another Coloured Porter was Harryliously said "Saiyd if the woman (Mi 15 Year Old Wife) is borthering you I cin had her removed""" She Looked Acaredy, it was a Joke- I was 17 Years old LONG HAIR HIPPY/ I am nowe and RETIRED HOBO.
Similar to my experience . Former United A&P
It blows my mind how the quality differs from what we get in Europe and what you get in the US. People in the US also always complain about Mercedes and BMW quality (which are made in Mexico and some in the US), while you basically can't get any higher quality cars here in Europe (besides Porsche and Rolls-Royce maybe). Now the same issues with Siemens, which don't seem to have these problems in Germany, Austria, Spain and all the other countries where they are used.
One thing I wonder is if the cold in the Midwest gets to them. It’s a lot colder here than in Germany. Or frankly most of Europe outside of Russia. The Horizon cars also had issues with the cold for a long time.
@@thetrainhopper8992 These are the same wagons as with the ÖBB Railjet and CD Railjet as well as CD Interjet. They also create the cold.
The Brightline trains seem to be doing well, although they run in warmer weather & it's all level-platform boarding unlike many Amtrak stops. Can't wait to see the Siemens Velaro Novo when they're running on Brightline West.
Have there been any issues with the Siemens via rail sets?
@@tonywalters7298 none, but they also run once a week. That's been increasing a little lately. They won't do full service until there's a bigger fleet so they don't run into crew training issues.
The problem is low temperature in the engine compartment, freezing the intakes with snow.
@@tonyburzio4107how do the MARC Chargers manage?
@@DaneNicholson Plus only a few have arrived in Montréal as its still early in the contract
I would just like to point out that Amtrak also uses chargers on the surfliner and cascade’s services and you never hear stories of chargers having a hard time in those areas
Sunny warm California is totally comparable to a Chicago winter right?
No
I work for the Seattle yard and we hate the Chargers on the Builder, Starlight, and Cascades. They break down if you just look at them the wrong way.
@@admiralfrazier306 I go to Freighthouse Square to railfan alot. When the SC-44 #1402 was scrapped, my heart was broken. He had only that morning run on his new life. My roommate and I love the low profile and long sleek look of the Chargers. Still, they are better than the disasterous EMD F125's. What every happen to them by the way?
@@crsrdash-840b5 Don't know, I'm in Seattle, we don't use the F125. As far as I can tell the only company that use them is the LA Metrolink. Apparently, from what I was told, Amtrak went to GE and asked them to upgrade the P42, but GE said no, so we went to Siemmens.
I must say that this is quite surprising as here in Europe Siemens is an incredible rail manufacturer, the Siemens Vectron can be seen in huge numbers all over where I live, i mean for example today i saw 4 of them at my local stations sidings. Although it seems useful to mention that the new ICE 4 that i got to ride on an international vacation had a beautiful but cheaply made interior, my footrest couldnt stay up on its own and i was in first class.
Das der ICE 4 ne beschissene Innenausstattung hat. Liegt aber nicht an Siemens 🥹 (That the ICE 4 has a shitty interior. But it’s not up to Siemens)
Having railfanned in Southeast Michigan for pretty much my whole life, it’s quite honestly sad to see how much the midwest services have fallen from grace, engines that can’t handle the cold, new cars that have LEAD in their pipes, etc.
It’s a situation that Amtrak really needs to solve soon or things are going to start going wrong in ways that they simply can’t fix.
On a side note, this was SO well done, you’ve earned yourself a new subscriber.
Amtrak doesn't own the midwest ventures or locomotives, the Midwest states do.
The states don’t design, build, operate and maintain the cars/engines. Siemens and Amtrak do that, which there are serious deficiencies as to how they were designed and built. The states do have a role in this, where if something goes REALLY wrong, they can come in and slap siemens/amtrak on the wrist. You are right however, they are owned by the states.
@@michiganrailfanfilms353 Teething issues honestly. Rarely does new equipment work properly upon introduction. Edge cases creep in that nobody thought of.
You sayin that you is Having railfanned in Sothuern Mitchin HAW I probly meet you but I RODE ON BOXCARS, fore FREE. HOBO'S RIDE FREE
That was an awesome night shot with the grain elevator in the background plus the signal drop, well done👍👍
Thanks for sharing
That's the Jiffy Mix mill (Chelsea Milling Co.) in Chelsea.
Siemens equipment seems to work pretty well in many other countries around the world. In case you were unsure, it gets pretty cold in a lot of European countries. I think what you might be looking at, is the old problem of a horse, designed by a committee, ends up as a camel. The hand rails breaking, that's obvious. Poor quality materials and workmanship.
i repaired Siemens AC traction systems for years that was built in the early 90's. It was not an easy system to deal with. But I agree, their equipment is top notch.
LMAO, the corporate apologism is hilarious.
Siemens signed a contract to deliver equipment that could perform to specifications given by Amtrak - who has 40 years of experience and data to inform their operational requirements.
The fact Siemens equipment is not measuring up to even contracted specifications reflects poorly on nobody but Siemens.
@@GintaPPE1000 I dont know and not sure how bad the problems are? Between the SD70MAC - Siemans, SD70ACE - Mitsubishi and GE - GE built traction inverters/ components, they all had problems. I thought the Mitsubishi system was the easiest to deal with. But they all had problems, even brand new from the factory.
American first 🤣🤣 is the problem 🥲🥲
It appears the seemingly low quality of build is a major problem these days..in pretty much every business.
In every country. I watched 'builders' slap together a 2 bedroom unit/town house behind my house, here in Australia. They'd never get any work from me.
Interestingly, Siemens Locomotives in Europe (For Example the ES64U2, Also called Taurus) are pretty much unkillable. Here in Austria, we have ~400 Taurus Locos and some Vecrons from Siemens, and have a really good reliability.
@@blacksmeim8791 Also the ER20 'Hercules' (which are the predecessor of the Vectron DE & Charger locos) have been in service reliably for over 20 years now.
I don't think that's the problem. Siemens has a really good track record and the cars that Brightline uses have not faced these problems.
Why we buying all this foreign crap. Open up the steel.mills this is silly. Fix the nation so we can take care of ourselves, enough with this NWO devil crap.
Siemens products are top class all over Europe. It's weird that apparently there are so many problems with them in the US. I wonder what the real problem is.
They have to modify their products to conform with North American railroad standards, including U.S. Federal Railroad Administration crashworthiness standards.
American workmen.
Yeah, all American workmen are incompetent.🙄
From what I've seen the real problem is the service they are assigned. Being run hard for long distance in harsh conditions. Not many places in the world have high demand service for 6000km continuous with little to no servicing. North American Locomotive are designed for a 92 days of operation between shop service. And can see 20-30 years between rebuild.
I don't know of any EU operations being this way.
@@maciekkra539 American workmen build operate and maintain other locomotives too and they don't have the problems Siemens has. Your comment makes no sense.
The Siemens engines are essentially tunnel motors, but with a significant difference. On a tunnel motor, the top can be automatically sealed with louvers, heating the inside if the temperature drops too low. At rest, these louvers would bang open and closed, really neat to see. The Siemens locomotives do not have this feature and the engine clogs up with snow then freezes. Siemens has been adding insulation, but with the snows melting tests will have to be put off till next year.
The air intakes on the cars are the same as on the engines, Problem #1. The plumbing problem is also there, but happened afterward as Problem #2.
The Siemens engines were tested, failed, and the order was held up by the GAO in 2019. The new administration was seduced by Siemens into reinstating the order over GAO objections. Wonderful.
When the Amtrak PO for new engines was sent in to the GAO for fulfillment, the GAO ordered no Genesis engine full rebuilds. Only minor repairs, after all, the old Genesis engines were being sent out for scrap. Unfortunately, the Siemens engines were defective and the order put on hold. So now, new defective engines and old engines without major rebuilds when needed. Wonderful.
Crazy enough, according to one St. Louis railfan friend of mine, on behalf of an Amtrak locomotive engineer he’s spoken to, the BLET attempted to have their input on the cab design but Siemens shut them out and threw them off the property, and of course the guy also said that operating these units was one of his worse experiences.
That's interesting to hear because a lot of designs these days take ergonomics into account. Of course they are pushing for driverless trains all over so there's that.
@@railwayjade it's a german design, ergonomics are afterthoughts
@@unepintade
If Siemens fitted their standard cab design, it'll be based on the universal German cab design introduced in the 80s. Which was so successful that it's become the de facto European standard. And ergonomics were one of the main reasons for this design. So not sure what you're trying to imply here.
Thank you for making this video. I was an early optimist for the introduction of Siemens equipment - even went out of my way to be on the first revenue runs of the ACS-64 and SC-44 - but at this point the problems are far too deep and systemic to ignore. Aside from the mentioned Venture and Charger issues, the ACS-64s have been getting progressively worse as Siemens throws more and more botched software updates at them and their parts support contract expires so Amtrak will have to start buying replacement transformers with their own money (which is why most Sprinters are being retired by the Airos).
I’m sure Amtrak will get these issues fixed - they have to at this point because they’ve bet too heavily on Siemens. But I’ve lost hope that we’ll see the Charger or Venture create another dynasty like the F40s, Genesis, Amfleets, or Superliners did. They’ll simply do their job and be discarded, like the E60s or HHP-8s.
It appears to be one problem. “Over the course of the past couple of weeks, Siemens Mobility has been working closely with Amtrak to identify the root cause of a number of isolated incidents of ALC42 power loss occurring under very specific and unusually extreme circumstances, where the locomotive experiences drastic changes in temperature. As a result, we’ve identified both a software solution and an additional hardware improvement that will eliminate the issue experienced. The software update has been implemented to the entire fleet, greatly reducing the potential for incidents. The hardware modification, replacement of a pipe, will be completed as quickly as possible. The [issues were] not encountered on other Charger locomotives, which have different power arrangements than the long-distance ALC42 locomotives.”
@@GrantMcWilliams Interesting to hear. I've been off this thread for three months but checked in. Can you explain what pipe and why it needs to be changed?
This reminds me of working with second hand GE U series locomotives. An old retired Chief mechanic from the BN told me about governor issues with the U boats in extreme cold because an oil line would plug up with thick oil. GE provided a kit with different copper oil tubes that were routed up on top of the engine block to "fix" the issue. I still have a couple of these kits from 20 years ago in my parts pile. They were issued to a railroad that never installed them.
@@GrantMcWilliamsIf it were just that issue alone, then the Midwest SC-44s wouldn't have poor reliability, let alone continue to have poor reliability after a few years of Siemens being on the issue. VIA too is underutilizing their SCV-42s: they have 14 sets on property, and don't even run as many Corridor services with them as Amtrak Midwest runs Charger services.
I used to work for the Budd Company in Philadelphia where we built the first Amtrak trains and they were built to last 100 years. Back in the late 70’s and 80’s we were building the best trains in the world. It’s a shame that the tracks sucked until they started putting in concrete ties. It was the Germans (Thysen) who bought us out and shut us down. We still have our regional rain system running cars we built in 1968 even though GE got that contract they subcontracted them cars to the Budd Company and these cars are 100 times better than the new cars from Hyundai which have underframes cracking and the cars drop below the platforms.
Sad to hear of the reliability issues of Siemens coaches and locomotives. It makes you question why the locomotives were not more fully tested before such a massive order was placed.
The engines and coaches are derivatives of models that have been in service in Europe and other countries for years.
The Chargers are basically Vectron DE engines which have been in service in Germany since 2011. Its predecessor, the ER20 'Hercules' (which shares many parts) was introduced in Austria in 2001 and has been operating reliably for the last 20 years (after some initial teething problems, like most vehicles have).
The Venture coaches are derived from the Viaggio Comfort line of coaches, which is also extensively used all over the world and in various climates. Again, they dont seem to have the same problems anywhere else... (not even with other operators in the US!)
The reason is they had no choice.
GE refused to deal with Amtrak again: they were raking in money with the Evolution series, and the GEVO-T4 engine is too tall to fit in a carbody that met Amtrak’s loading gauge requirements. MPI’s MP54AC is completely unsuited for intercity use, and the HSP46 is just garbage. EMD’s F125 is an even bigger pile of shit than either.
Among rolling stock builders, Hyundai Rotem has no intercity passenger coach design, Nippon Sharyo folded after the bilevel deal fell through, CAF completely botched the Viewliner II order, and Bombardier’s only design is the Superliner, which doesn’t fit Amtrak’s needs.
They were tested, failed, and the order was held up by the GAO in 2019. The new administration was seduced by Siemens into reinstating the order over GAO objections.
@@stephanweinberger this issue is unique to Amtrak that’s nice to know thanks for sharing
@@alex_b_9850 I was specifically talking about the Vectron _DE_ - which is the _D_iesel _E_lectric version, powered by a MTU 16V 4000 R84 prime mover.
VIA Rail has been having similar teething issues with their new fleet of Chargers + Venture coaches. You can imagine that the winter weather issues are even more acute on the Quebec-Windsor corridor in the middle of January. Hoping that they'll iron out the bugs sooner rather than later, as VIA's fleet is aging even faster than Amtrak's.
@@marengtech313 They’ve only done a single test run with passengers between Montreal and Quebec City this winter. The portion between Montreal and Ottawa is where they’ve done the most testing (with or without passengers), as VIA owns the Alexandria Sub.
I love that shot in the fog at 4:10 keep it up
Yeah. Now I'm tempted to get a fog machine, colored light bulbs and make a video to recreate that look for my surfliner.
Every new equipment has problems, including the P42's you praise as a savior.
I can agree with you on one thing, although it has advantages no company, certainly a big one like Amtrak, should put all it's eggs in one basket and should have a wider variety of equipment providers. Siemens has excellent equipment but the fact that most big rail companies in North America work now almost exclusively with one company and one type of rolling stock is not a good strategy.
Having one type of equipment is actually a really good strat in the long term. Yeah, you're more vulnerable if an issue is detected, but parts and labor standardization allow for much lower rates than having 7ish different types of cars amtrak has now. Just because you're bound to have teething issues early on doing this, 95% of the time will be issue free with the advantages.
Absolutely. When working for J&J in raw materials engineering, we had a big push for second source suppliers. Relying on one supplier is asking for trouble.
All new equipment is going to all have problems. what they need to do is have Amtrak rep to be a the plant and do their own point inspections before it leaves the plant. Also i understand about diversifying their fleet but no American or any other companies have put in bids to Amtrak for creating light rail equipment that will work with the parameters that Amtrak has to work with. so Siemens was the only ones that stepped up and the only reason i thing they went them is because of how they worked out for Brightline in Florida.
@@paulkoza8652 This is a bit different than that though. Amtrak getting a second type of railcar from a different manufacturer wouldn't be very easy and straightforward, while being decently costly as it would have to be designed from the ground up.
i worked in a locomotive repair shop. The tooling to work on multiple types of equipment is so expensive. Not to mention all the training and software. It can be overwhelming.
They caught all sorts of trash while they new engine sat frozen on a crossover for hours. Blocking freight in both directions. 15 below zero. Entire incident streamed life on railcam Minnesota. You speak truth.
BNSF finally had to push them
SC-44s have completely taken over from P59PHIs on the Pacific Surfliner, and SC-44s are used on most NCTD Coaster trains. We have no troubles with them. Siemens Venture cars are coming soon to California, also.
When are the venture coaches coming and what are they replacing, the surfliner cars?
@@nglo5 - At first, the Venture cars will expand the fleet. The existing Surfliner and California cars are only about 30 years old; they are due for a mid-life refit, but not replacement. The Venture cars, however, will make the trains more accessible to mobility impaired riders. The fact that passengers in wheelchairs have no food service may be the critical factor that hastens the departure of the Superliner-like bi-level cars of California before they turn 50.
@@nglo5 The Venture cars will start on Amtrak California, the Surfliner Califonria cars (numbered in the 6000s) will go to the Surfliner for the next 7-8 years, I haven’t heard anything about replacement for Amtrak Surfliner.
There’s definitely plenty of trouble with them lol. They had to send a dash 8 on surfliner trains for a few days not too long ago and Coaster has frequently been seen using their F59PHIs to sub in for broken down siemens equipment. Amtrak in LA has a 24/7 on site rep from siemens whose job is basically to decode anything that’s wrong with those engines. Don’t know of any other railroads with problems that bad
@@Amrepdude499 - Maybe you saw a F59PHI on a Coaster train, but that doesn't mean it was doing anything besides hauling a train. I saw a F59PHI on a Coaster last week, myself. But I also see many SC-44's pulling Coaster and Amtrak train. NCTD does not have a lot of extra locomotives, given that they only ever had two F59PHI's, and the rest were F40PHM-2C from M-K.
As for why the quality issues aren't being reported in the mainstream media: sadly, it's happening in "flyover country", between the coasts
As long as the Acela Express get the bigwigs up and down the Northeast Corridor on time (relatively speaking), without any mishaps, then it really doesn't matter to them. Start having issues like this between DC and Boston, and the networks (and the politicians) would be on like stink on poop. (All in all, a fitting simile, I believe.)
When the Amtrak Cascades derailed and landed on I-5 some years back, that garnered attention because it was on the West Coast. If that happened in Nebraska, probably would have been about a 15 second blip, and that's it.
If a train derails here in Germany, and there are dead or injured. Is it like a plane crash 🥹
This seems to be an Amtrak Problem because VIA Rail’s Chargers are having no problem currently and up here in Canada we get wild weather, as of now some of them are in service
Brightline doesn’t seem to have any problem either.
Living in Florida the Brightline sets seem to have no issues and they do 130 miles an hour too
This is completely false. Brightline has had a ton of issues with their Venture+Charger sets. But they are a private company and are extremely tight lipped. They literally have NDAs for the technicians to sign.
But this is not the problem. All new equipment will necessarily have teething issues. This is just a law of nature. The real problem is that the US based foamers hate anything new on the railroad so they always try to create drama.
It's all fake.
VIA is operating a single Charger set in revenue service right now, even though they have 7 on property and they’ve all been spotted testing. That says to me there’s a pretty big problem.
@@GintaPPE1000 last VIA rail said they had 2 sets so far and this was a month ago.
@@GintaPPE1000 They dont have 7 yet
Surprising to see Amtrak return to Siemens again. After the charger I thought they’d be begging GE to develop a replacement. That being said I haven’t heard any such problems out of the bright line Siemens down here in Florida.
But Siemens is better. Siemens is one of the best train manufacturers in the world 🤷♂️ I even think Siemens is the best train manufacturer.
One of those P42s recently blew a turbocharger on the EB California Zephyr, which not only put the engine out of service and caused a 12 hour delay, but spread thick black oil over all the windows of the train just before it entered the Rockies.
There have been at least two Amtrak Midwest SC44s that have blown out engine parts from the engine room too, but lets not mention that..... The P42s are aging, and the Midwest SC44s are still unreliable after 5 years. Heck, they even had to bring out a P42 for the Carbondale trains on a 60 degree day this weekend because of no working Chargers left. Oh, and the Hiawatha on thursday had 3 chargers for a 3 car train.
Out of HOW MANY YEARS OF CONSISTENT WORK IN ALL WEATHER SCHEMES vs Siemens not even 6 years old being plagued with issues? ALL OF THEM.. Never a good sign when you can't even start up one on an INAUGURAL RUN and have a P42 step in and "help". Any problems with GE vs Siemens have been few and far between in relation to these prospective incoming new models that seem to keep having issues. Whether it is quality control or poor materials or bad engineering while construction, it's a bad omen for something barely on the tracks long enough to have this many problems out the gate and still continue to keep having.
When the Amtrak PO for new engines was sent in to the GAO for fulfillment, the GAO ordered no Genesis engine full rebuilds. Only minor repairs, after all, the old Genesis engines were being sent out for scrap. Unfortunately, the Siemens engines were defective and the order put on hold. So now, new defective engines and old engines without major rebuilds when needed. Wonderful.
@@sethamtrakMetra's F40s have been going strong since 1977
@maas1208 maybe amtrak should've held onto theirs f40s.
Viaggios are well proven cars. But the "Made in USA" requirements means they can,t just transplant prpoduction line to USA , they need to get "made i USA" parts here and there to meet the quota and that means new car with new problems. (thougt, lead for drinking water system has no excuse and shows someone asleep at the switch).
Do you have any information on what problems prevent Amtrak Midwest from using Café and Business class Venture cars ?
I believe Amtrak Midwest just took delivery of the first batch of Business Class Venture cars, and AM hasn't finished certifying them and training staff for service yet. AFAIK, none of the Cafe cars have even been delivered yet -- whether that's an AM decision, the order of completion, or delays in design considerations or production, I don't know. (Although I could be wrong on everything I've heard and relayed here.)
Whether parts were sourced in the US or from Europe is irrelevant. Siemens is responsible for ensuring their suppliers meet the standard expected by both them and their customer. American suppliers had no problem supplying very high-quality parts for the Amfleet, Horizon, and especially Superliner fleets - those cars are still giving more reliable service 10-15 years past their designed expiration date than Siemens’ new Eurotrash.
@@GintaPPE1000 Whenever you have a product that is service-proven but is then exported and forced to use different supliers/parts, it begs for problems. If Viaggios use an HVAC system built by some Dutch company, it can't just ask some US manufacturers to build the same part because the US mnufacturer does not have the rights to make another company's model. So they make something equivalent and Siemens needs to integrate the different "made in USA" HVAC it into the Venture cars. Multiply this with each part that is sourced differently as well as the FRA requirements, and you have a a Veture car that is significantly different from Viaggios.
With regards to Amfleet and Horizon: Amtrak has long ago take over maintenance and parts sourcing since the original manufacturers are long gone and when you have a large fleet, you can afford to test a new replacement part on a few cars to debug them before rollout on whole fleet as each car goes through maintenance cycle. This is different than a brand new car that is being launched and never put into production before .
It’s not American made it’s foreign shit just slapped together here in boxes
@@mattk9644 I have some sad news for you friend, American made would mean significantly worse. I suppose you’re also a fan of the Buy America act?
P42 leading at Chelsea, the engineer would be David V. Good friend of mine
How is this not a failure of the American train signal system design? What if we wanted to run a 3-car DMU?
What if we wanted an articulated 4-car DMU to operate safely?
It is a failure of American infrastructure. The problem is getting people to accept that America could possibly get anything wrong, SURELY we couldn't do anything wrong! It's not like Siemens builds equipment all over the world with no issues or anything. Oh wait.......
I love the transitions in the video! Great Job!
I loved this video! It brings to light the many problems the Amtrak venture cars bring. I really enjoyed this video and can’t wait to see what else you have in store!
Thank you! More things to come :)
EMD needs to make a comeback
Thank you for having the explanation of why baggage cars are occasionally back on the Michigan Line.
Gotta wonder if the fault is in endless customizations that Amtrak tends to demand. Definitely one of the factors that clobbered Acela's performance.
Also, as some other comments mention, the Buy America requirements mean a manufacturer has to essentially redesign a locomotive or coach because of the volume of components that have to be replace with USA-made parts. Take something that works great and completely redesign it - it probably won't work great anymore.
I don’t think it was Amtrak with the Acela, but the FRA demanding more structural strength which caused the cars to end up a few inches wider than expected. Regulators in this country are experts at killing railroads.
The FRA assumes trains will crash, so it demands everything be overbuilt. It’s a crazy philosophy that only a government bureaucracy could come up with.
@Mark Opolo, the fact that the United States is different from Europe doesn't seem to get through to you, does it?🙄
Would you rather the FRA didn't have standards so that trained would crash a lot?🙄
@@Neville60001 The FRA standards that keep European rail equipment from coming to the US without significant modifications don't prevent crashes. The standards are focused on preventing cabin penetration and crush, which is definitely a worthwhile goal. However, the FRA doesn't seem very interested in preventing accidents in the first place by improving signalling and operations.
OTOH, rail accidents do still happen in Europe and some of them have been quite awful. I think there's a middle ground between demanding armored cars on rails (FRA) and expecting dispatchers to never make an error (Europe).
I was on Wolverine 355 to and from Kalamazoo last month and tbh, the siemens venture seats are not nearly as comfy. Not looking forward to them replacing the Talgo 8s on cascades north. And then up here in Fargo, I've been on 4 empire builders this winter, three of which were routed south direct from Fargo to Minot due to pretty mild cold weather between Fargo and Grand Forks
While the Amfleet seats are have more cushion, I'll take the layout and ergonomics of the Venture coach over it anyday.
@@Ven100 absolutely, yeah, I want them to take the amfleet seats and put them into the venture coaches
Note for future videos, lower the video's volume over your narration. It's hard to hear you speaking when all I can hear in the background is "Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!"
Sorry about that! Thanks for the input, I'll adjust for the future :)
Stuff some Kleenex in your Ear Trumpet.
Cool channel man, this is outstanding work all around
What sort of train detection system is used on this line, considering the minimum axle requirement?
As a European, I have to say that it is a miracle that a modern train can run on these Third World tracks at all without derailing. - Say what, three trains derail every day? Why am I not surprised?
Over 1000 per year and most you will never hear about unless there is death and destruction.
A vast majority of derailments are low-speed yards and branch lines with minimal damage and downtime.
Its a similar story with the Hitachi AT300s (Classes 800 to 803) here in the UK From Leaking Air Conditioning Units, Overheating Engines, Software Issues, Problematic Power Changeover Sequences to Cracks in the Lifting Brackets and now Fatigue and Cracks in the Body Shells, The list goes on...
Amtrak needs to rethink purchasing, and fire those that put the Siemens deal together!
Very informative video. Really enjoyed it.
Keep bringing the videos
The first run of Siemens locomotives in local service had teething problems, and now the ALC42 Chargers are pooping the bed in long distance service...lots of temperature-related and PTC issues.
down here on the old IC line because of cn’s weight/axel requirements they have to use superliners for the illini/saluki
Something similar happened to the HHP-8s. Whenever they broke, AEM-7s would substitute it.
New Subscriber: I enjoyed the video. It was nice and informative.
Having just returned from a month travelling around the US by rail I'm finding these issues with the Charger locomotives interesting but it's hard to find any detailed explanation of what exactly the problems are. On our trip we only saw one Charger - the Coast Starlight had one paired with a P42. The SW Chief and California Zephyr both had 2 x P42s. Since the P42s seem to be proven technology would you know why GE wasn't asked to build the replacements?
Both GE and EMD (two major players of locomotives) in the US are hardly as involved today as they once were. The freight railroads aren't buying new locomotives, but opting to rebuild older ones instead, and since passenger rail is so niche in the US market, there was no incentive to create a new passenger locomotive design knowing Amtrak was the only major player in the country. Now that Amtrak's older P40s and P42s are becoming worn out, Siemens was the only manufacturer who offered a brand new passenger locomotive on the market, leaving very little choice for Amtrak
Its weird because the sprinters (to my knowledge) did not have nearly as many reliability issues. In fact the sprinters are know to be reliable.
The sprinters dont have that opene grate at the back and I wonder if that is effecting the motor by not being enclosed entirely.
Well recently the Sprinters have been getting software malfunctions
4:11 award winning shot I’d say, excellent video
I'm certain the American factories are cutting corners to save money. This is the same reason why when buying Japanese cars, i.e. from Toyota or Honda, it's recommended you buy ones made in Japan verses made in the USA. That way, you can avoid America's corporate greed leading to poorly manufactured products.
American built Toyotas and Hondas are just as good as the Japanese cars. The whole idea that Japanese-built=better is a myth that’s been floating around for decades. Toyota and Honda even build premium luxury models (Lexus and Acura) in America.
I thought you were going to talk about Siemens trackside equipment :P
That stuff has been a pain for PTC too.
Excellent! New subscriber. Greetings from Port Saint Lucie Florida.
Thank you fir sharing the good looking trains. Yes, I hear about Antrak and what they do for service. I do love Antrak service out of Chicago. My Mother would always pay fir for First Class cabin suite for to enjoy the views going out west. Many people in general love seeing and traking train rides. There just seem to be politics in this industry like the just like the airlines. But we, the people, still love to travel. Same with the interstate highways. People buy our new cars and trucks and take a long trip in them. Our country, hahaha!! I still and I still travel. You learn as you get older you deal with our whole transportation system. And we all that we get to our destination safely. Life in our great country.
Great Video Bro Saying Hi From El Paso Texas
Is Brightline facing the same problems with Siemens venture cars and diesels?
Amtrak seems to be the only one having issues with the Siemens equipment. Brightline and VIA Rail seem to be doing fine with their orders...
From what I heard the main problem with the chargers is that the air intake for the engine is on the bottom of the locomotive and as the trains go dirt and debris gets clogged in those air intakes causing the engine to overheat, that combined with problems with the new electronic systems glitching and causing the PTC to fail.
It would be a funny patchwork solution if these ended up with snorkels for the air intake like off-road jeeps/trucks
Amtrak should have split the locomotive order between Siemens and Progress Rail (former EMD). Doing this to add more F125 Locomotives. It seems GE and EMD do not want to make passenger locomotives.
why is there a minimum axel count requirements?! this is unheard of anywhere else around the world?
Freight railroad bullshit
To ensure proper shunting of track circuits. There have been numerous instances (though they still are extremely rare) of railroad crossings failing to activate in time due to insufficient electrical contact between wheel and rail.
Amtrak had no hand in ordering the SC44s and Venture cars. They purchased by a consortium of Midwest states and California with funds from the Obama stimulus. At the time there was no tier IV high HP passenger locomotive capable of 110+mph speed. Mistakes were made and they weren’t properly tested in Midwest winter conditions. Granted the P42s they replaced were struggling too in the winter. Amtrak sort of remedied it by running two P42s coupled together to deal with snow shorting own traction motors. Another big issue is Siemens never had the subcontractor network that GE and other builders had so spare parts for the Chargers are hard to come by. Fixes for the Midwest units have been identified and will begin within the year on their quarter life overhaul.
Are they the next hhp8 or sdp40f or ge p30ch or even e60?
As they're 4-axled units, the most logical progression would be from the F40PH.
On more than one occasion, I've seen BNSF engines pulling Amtrak trains on the Galesburg, IL cam.
It's like the days of early 1970's Amtrak used locomotives all over again...before the F40PH came to their rescue!
The handrails to board were breaking?
It’s the quick mass production. The rule is Fast, Quality or Cheap but you can only pick two.
Is there a solution to fix those problems?
I thought Metra was crazy for commissioning the SD70MACHs but now I see there was a method to the madness. They were proven locomotives optimized for American railroads. Now Metra doesn’t have to deal with all the problems that the Siemens Charger has. The MACHs work just as well as the freight trains that use the same tracks.
Recognize some of these places.
1:17 - Ann Arbor, Barton park
2:45 - Ypsilanti, Depot Town
4:30 - Chelsea, near Chelsea Milling co.
5:25 - Ann Arbor off Main st
Siemens builds very reliable locomotives, both diesel and electric (Vectron, EuroSprinter, EuroRunner) in europe. So if locomotives of Siemens are not running reliably in US of A, it is probably not the fault of Siemens but that of the US of A.
wrong. Siemens never could build any thing as good as the Sd40 or 90% of emd products, there are Emds built in 1950 still runing today
@@dknowles60 Put your national pride into Uranus as well as your primitive US-American stoneage technology.
@@doctorhabilthcjesus4610 Canada also uses similar Railway tech also we'll upgrade our "stoneage technology" when we cut all funding to NATO and so you Europoors can deal with Russia yourselves.
As others have said Siemens trains have a good reputation in Europe for reliability. In the UK we are having issues with our new high speed fleets from Hitachi, with rough riding, cracks in the bogies/trucks, loose interior fittings and seat cushions wearing out after a few years. Perhaps the common issues the UK Railways and Amtrak have is overreliance on a single supplier and/or having trains built to a too low price point resulting in corners being cut.
UK should simply order the Velaro and you’re done.
British series 373
Thats very interesting. Also such a scuffed solution lmao
It's surprising just how short these passenger trains are. I'm used to seeing 12 passenger cars per train, often doubled up to 24. Service needs to improve to drive demand, yet without demand there's no will to improve service so it's just stuck there. Not to mention car dependency in cities means people are left practically stranded at their destinations so they avoid the train.
Will never happen unless gas prices push EVERYONE not rich out of their cars...
I've noticed that NCTD is putting two SC-44 Chargers on many of their trains, and they are still 4 or 5 cars long, not Comic-Con length. The trailing Charger is always shut-off. My guess is that the second Charger is there to take over if the lead one breaks. Remember that each Charger is about 1,000 HP more powerful that F40PHM-2C or F59PHI that they replaced.
I recently rode a Surfliner with just one Charger and, I think, 8 bi-level cars, and it went up Sorrento Grade without a hitch. Apparently, NCTD is not as happy with their reliability.
Why would Amtrak not just use the American GE Dash 9 series?
Did you say broken handrails?
3:44 looks like an album cover of a Midwest Emo Song
What was 2007 doing on that Hiawatha
Canada is colder. Does the Siemens trains work for them?
Time will tell, VIA rail is still testing their new Siemens sets before rolling them out.
@@therailcinema technically they’re running them in revenue service usually every Tuesday Montreal to Ottawa, two train sets since November. Right now a third train set is doing a Montreal-Toronto Test I’ve heard.
So far they haven’t had any issues. So I guess anything made for Amtrak turns into liquid shit
If you take a Siemens train in Europe. Then you know that you can expect good quality. I regularly drive the Siemens Desiro HC from RRX, and they are great. Really never have problems, and train drivers are thrilled that they are so reliable.
5:06 were those sparks?!
Give Metrolink 800, Caltrain 907, 910, and 914 as well as Amtrak F40PHs 365, 392, 403 and 404 to Metra
The straight-electric ACS64 Sprinter has been reliable for 9 years. But the SC44/ALC42 Chargers are a different animal based off a similar platform but with a diesel engine. And with Tier-4 regulations and other manufacturers not having much to offer, I think there are at least 200 Chargers ordered total. Some haven’t made headlines, but that’s mainly in warmer climates. I knew ordering that many that soon by several agencies would be risky. Just because the Sprinter is reliable in varied northeastern weather as is most European-made Siemens, doesn’t mean everything Siemens is great.
Well recently the Sprinters have been getting software malfunctions
Those problems explains why the Chicago - St. Louis - Kansas City often sometimes have up to 3 bagage cars.
No that’s an axle count requirement, a host railroad problem.
I wondered why AMTRAK hadn't partnered with Alstom instead. Although all new locomotives have teething problems, granted, this has lasted for a while.
Call me a sucker, but nothing beats the design of these AmFleet II. They look so cool and unique.
Not great news for Via Rail, we have 3 trains of the 32 bought, they ran one day a week in winter on Ottawa Montreal Quebec City routes, no doubt with similar issues. Too bad, they look great on Brightline trains
the problem is the American manufacturing. The QC from Europe clearly has not translated well to the states, as seems to be the case with almost any product from cars to heavy equipment. It's still pretty shocking to me that the Chargers are using off the shelf Cummins engines. It shows that Siemens is not well versed in Diesel manufacturing and needed to rely on a third party vendor for the prime mover. For the electric trains of course it's all a Siemens custom design.
I wonder how Alstom (and its subsidiaries) would have approached the Charger project since they have more experience with Diesel power.
Where does the Alstom have more experience in diesel trains than Siemens?
Didn’t the P42s go through issues as well
People forget that the GE models started as AMD 103, then got renamed P40DC. The upgraded version is called the P42DC. They have a mono body design instead of a bolted, which makes working on them far easier.
Isn't Amtrak still in the red?
Those cars are not in service. Just being tested. The first org to get in service cars from Siemens is WSDOT Cascades, due 2027, maybe sooner. But, they first need to past testing in Pueblo, CO. Siemens has an issue with designing equipment for being used on freight tracks. Most tracks in the US is owned by a freight rail company. Freight tracks are built differently than high-speed rail tracks are.
Remember AMTK has a contract to purchases a blank mount of trains from siemens
Kickbacks?
2 cents, Amtrak = Federal Gov I'm sure we put in a requirement that this and that piece part must be made by a "small business" "minority business" blah blah blah This gives business a leg up and gets them into markets where the teething problems are amplified exponentially by having multiple sub-contracts in the "statement of work or Request for proposal" Happens every single time the Feds get involved. I've been involved in Gov contracting for the past 22 years and that's just the way it is.
The state level projects and deliverables never have as many problems arise since they usually aren't trying to include some sort of agenda. They just want what is proposed.
Amtrak has also been a Semi-disaster financially and operationally since 71 when it was born.
beautiful shot at 3:40
Looks like the 70s and 80s with heritage equipment only it's not. Amfleets, Ventures, Horizons and Viewliner baggage all mixed.
A whole board of directors really looked at what’s the name of that passenger car and thought it was OK, they saw nothing wrong with it
Wait, is that the Wolverine up to Annandale?
Reference: ruclips.net/video/s7DYyToslXc/видео.html
Because government always choses lowest bidder and you dont see GE making passenger locos anymore, Pullman is dead so we went to CAF for our long distance stuff which is great actually. I would love to see CAF Superliner IIIs but we dont really have much choice in engine manufacturers like we used to and for every Gem there will be a blunder.
To be fair they're rebuilding MBTA locomotives
Makes you wonder if they should have taken the money spent and just rebuilt the p42 fleet. Or better still, 40 series emd’s never seem to die, they just keep getting rebuilt 😂. If metra and some other operators kept the 40’s running this long its possible
I always loved the F40s. I really think they could have been modernized if done right.
Give Metrolink 800, Caltrain 907, 910, and 914 as well as Amtrak F40PHs 365, 392, 403 and 404 to Metra
Why does every US passenger train look like the Homer Car these days? The passenger cars from the 40/50's era were works of art.
Locomotive Manufacturers right now care about whether the train looks more European or not to keep up with the rest of the world infrastructure, which can be fine IF said European looking train would work properly, which based off of what every locomotive engineer is saying about these locomotives, they aren't.
All those crossing-gates should have CAUTION - HIGH-SPEED TRAINS signs on them.
BTW... I'm still waiting to see some of these new locomotives on the Empire Corridor of NY.
GE should make a T4 P42. Amtrak already knows how well the P42 does so this could be the answer. And yes I know that GE is now part of wabtech