Really awesome! Bummer the shipping to europe was so expensive. And yes, MUCH cheaper than lead acid. I don't understand why anyone buys lead acid anymore 😂 You don't need a balancer for these cells. If they are matched correctly, the active balancer is a waste of money. If they pull full capacity, you are good to go.
Thanks! Yes I am comfortable with how well balanced the cells came but for 40 bucks I am ok with using the active balancer. After 3 months of using the pack, it's keeping the max-min delta at 6mV. I don't have any conclusive tests to prove it but it will get as much as 30mV apart while under charge or load and recovers really quickly. No complaints! At a low c rate discharge test, it pulled 284Ah!
@@freelyroaming I noticed the same thing. Shipping costs for the same product which even greatly exceeds the total cost of the product in shipping ... therefore becomes more interesting for several regions of the world
Wow, this is by far the most easily understandable presentation on LiPO4 batteries anywhere on RUclips. Your explanation of balancing is perfect for a noob like me. I dearly love Will Prowse/David Poz/jehugarcia and others, but YOU have a gift for teaching. No BS, no hype, no fancy electronics, no triple integrals to make my eyes glaze over, just information presented clearly. No music, good camera work, sound level good. A Top 5 all time best YT vid! Liked/subbed/forwarded.
Finally, someone who can explain these batteries in a clear and concise way. Thank you Sir. I'm going to double this with 8 batteries using at least a 5000 watt pure sign wave inverter. I have been using 5 full sized lead acid batteries with my vans two 160w solar panels and a 1000 watt inverter. Works perfectly but I worry about off gassing as I noticed that anything that is metal in close proximity of the batteries begins to develop a blue green film from the acid vapor of the batteries. This can't be good. So I will go all out for LiFePO4 batteries. I am an English teacher living in Vietnam. The power is always going out here and I want to build a backup system I can use in the house as well as a future van build. Cheers!
Just now finding your channel. I’m elderly and suffer from hearing loss but find the audio on your videos to be excellent. Your pronunciation is way above par. At this point, with only limited exposure to your videos, I find your work significantly better than the usual fair. I like the logic you bring to the table. Thank you from a new fan of your work.
I personally like it because I will be returning to this video when I do have the money to build my own battery system. And I don't need to watch all the unnecessary parts. Since I've already seen the entire video right now.
This is probably the most comprehensive and least hyped video about Lithium batteries. And timing is good because in a year's time, I'll be replacing my 3 battery deep-cycle battery bank on my boat and have been looking at AGM, Lithium, etc since in a span of 7 years, it will be the second time I replace the battery bank. Definitely will look further at this. Thanks for the awesome presentation.
Wow, I remember about 2 years ago I saw this video and I was impressed at the time. About two weeks ago I saw another video you made because my interest in solar power grew enough to take me back to this, your video. It it so well made that it is my number one reference of understanding this wonderful concept of renewable energy, THANK YOU. Sending this to my brother to motivate him 😊. Additionally, Im considering making smaller versions of emerging power for my son and daughter. They have now idea of what this 60 y/o man has been through and seen in my long life, and Im greatful for that. Their future may depend immensely on this technology. Once again, thank you, be well and continue to enjoy family and life. 😊 Jerry
In roughly 2008, GM was introducing the parallel hybrid truck or (PHT / Maybe earlier) but as a contract employee, we had two cross-training week long sessions each year. The engineer was pointing out the entire system but to focus on the battery pack, these where in utilities and extend cab trucks. We did not go into the BMS but pointed out they used a NTC thermistor between every two battery packs. Their charging strategy was 80% of full and 20% of discharge. But also it is common practice to design & spec parts that would last 5,000 hours or = 150,000 miles. Now for AGM. I like the idea but if in a vehicle and discharged two or three times, they are just about done. Now, what kills a normal battery (Lead Acid / AGM) if the battery in located away from extreme quick temperature changes and vibration by placing it under the rear seat, providing a sealed cavity, vented to outside, will last 10-11 years or longer. This story was told to me by many shops and guys I knew for years. From the factory, GM used a dense foam cover that fit the battery. In the stack of returns, half of the GM application came back with the foam blanket on it. In the 80’s, magnetic oil pan heaters for Nebraska winter where sold along with dip-stick heaters or cut a hose or remove a frost plug and put in a heater. The best use of less wattage is an electric blanket for the battery. It kept the battery nice and warm and spun the engine over like a warm summers morning. Just a thought to share. I subscribed and hit the like button. It is worth having someone knowledgeable tell you about the use of Li-ion batteries in vehicles, the channel clearly does it well. Blessings and I will be looking at other videos, as I rebuild my sons steering gear box. ASE Master Tech since 1978 - Retired
Excellent presentation in all respects! Yes I totally agree that 12V (or 6V) Li-batteries do have a number of significant advantages over AGM's with the best by far being energy density, usable Amps, battery orientation and weight differences (I presently run two 110Ah AGMs in parallel in my off-road caravan and the combined weight is 60kgs)! Battery management is through a high-end MPPT controller (which can also handle Li batteries) fed from 150W solar panel. The down sides for Li batteries here in Australia is firstly, cost with presently up to a 4X $ difference between equivalent AGM's and Li's (Li's being higher cost) and while the Li-battery sellers often "tout" "10+ life-times compared to an equivalent AGM", I'm yet to see any factual confirming data supporting such claims!! Li-batteries however, do definitely last longer than AGM's but just how much longer is pretty much still to be realistically demonstrated which, in my opinion, does not justify Li-batteries high cost. What really worries me (as a retired analytical chemist), is that in my experience Li-battery sellers almost always DO NOT mention Li-batteries VERY SERIOUS property of possible spontaneous ignition (bursting into flames) if cell collapse, short circuit, battery case puncture or even significant over/under charging occurs - a very serious safety issue that really does require knowledgeable understanding by the users of Li-batteries which, unfortunately, is generally not readily understood by many caravanners. Regarding AGM's, yes you can get combustion of oxygen/hydrogen gas evolved if a cell collapses or suffers a short circuit etc, if these batteries are not properly looked after, however in this case it requires a separate source of ignition (usually spark) AND an accumulation of hydrogen in a confined space such that the concentration of evolved hydrogen is both trapped and reaches or exceeds the lower ignition point for hydrogen in air. If using an AGM (or other types of wet-acid batteries) it is a really simple matter to prevent any build-up of hydrogen and oxygen under normal use (for older types of non-valve regulated wet acid types) or even if the above adverse situations occur, by installing a couple of small 12V DC's fans vented to outside from an enclosed battery compartment. The fans can be set to come on when drawing power from or during charging of the AGM's etc., thus totally removing any chance of there being a fire or explosion. Unfortunately, the same extraction process cannot be used to prevent Li-batteries autoignition or combustion possibilities! There are 'always horses for courses' with whichever battery system is adopted BUT benefits and potential hazardous issues for both types of battery systems MUST be rigorously explained by the battery seller AND must also be thoroughly understood by a purchaser before their selection is made! For me for the present, I am sticking with AGM's and putting up with the extra weight disadvantage but enjoying the very significant much lower cost together with what is (IMO) a far safer choice for caravanners. Cheers from Down Under.
One of the best presentations on LifePo4 batteries I have come across on the internet, clear, concise and accurate information. Subscribed and will follow your channel as I learn and eventually will build my own battery bank. Thanks
I loved the fact you showed how you started off with the lower version but hoped a new one was being worked on. I thank you for showing that if you dont have all the parts, it just wont work and spares die eventually. Thanks for your time.
Another advantage is ,when one cell goes bad.replace only one,not the entire 6 0r 12 volt cells.and if you want to balance all the cells.just hooked them in parallel overnight.
That's why it is important to have an easy way to see individual cell voltage in case a cell happens to fail. But if the cells are new and matched, there should be further investigation to figure out why one of them would go bad in the first place.
The problem with charging to just 90% is that most BMS bleed balances only kick in at 3.5 Volts - so its unlikely to balance much if at all - The old rule use to be charge to 3.6v per cell for first 1,2,3 charges then 5th then 10th then ever 50 charges - if you have blue tooth then balance charge when cells are 0.1v out - I have my 20amp bulk charger set to 90% constant voltage then a little 0.6amp charger to do the balance charge - do not use a high amp charger to top balance it will overwhelm the BMS which ballance at as little 15ma per cell - The one you have I think is 60ma - even so its not much - I have a little thermal mat under my RV cell stack that kicks in at 2C - was easy to set up using a little digital temperature circuit with relay and a low watt silicon mat - the whole thing cost less than £10 to build and means I can leave it connected to Solar all year round - Good Luck
I remember back in about 2010 ish I was helping out at an EV shop and some cells very similar to these were the traction motor batteries. Off the pallet I had to check their voltage, pair them together, charge them with a pretty normal 12 V charger, then let them rest, check the voltage, discharge them on a big resistor pack that tracked the current and voltage and beeped when finished. Write the basic info on them and recharge them. If they failed I could pair them with others if needed and repeat the cycle. If they failed again, they went onto another pallet. About 1/3 of them failed and 2/3 got to go into the small EVs. Some of them even puffed up during the process.
Hey Dan, I just commented on your Dometic video. I will say this: That cheap 5 - 8A active cell balancer works great!! I have several of them over 3 total builds that I use (That exact one) but I will say this: If you ever get to the point where you aren’t using your LifePO4 battery and it’s just sitting you *NEED* to put a switch on the positive side to turn that balancer on and off. If you do not, it *WILL* drain your batteries very quickly. On my 100AH build it drained it to about 12V in about 35 days. S you have double that so figure 70 days. (For those of you that don’t know, it does this because it’s constantly taking power from the low side and putting it into the high side and you have losses in doing this.) Now of course if you’re always using this like you are then there would be no need. For me I might have a month or SEVERAL months especially during winter where I don’t use my battery so I have a switch built in to turn that active balancer off. When I go to use my battery(ies) I turn the balancer on rather charging or discharging and it’s just great 😊. P.S, you don’t have thermal run-away with LifePO4, which is why it is superior to regular Lithium Ion type batteries which have a 3.7V nominal such as the 18650’s. They are SUPER safe. Yes, you can and *WILL* damage them by over-charging and over-discharging but they won’t explode or catch fire in doing so.
good to know! I have heard good thing about the active balancers. It makes sense that it will also drain the battery since there is a net loss in the balancing process luckily our batteries will always be hooked up to solar so it wont be a problem. and yes! I have seen lots of examples of what happens to LiFePO4 batteries when they are shorted. No fireworks!!!
just when i think i know enough i see others saying things that is more complex. i do want to say you give the clef notes that is so so needed. i don't need all the information i just need enough to get her done. thanks so much.
Great video. Thanks. We are full-time RVers who wanted to replace the 2 FLA golf cart batteries that were located under the steps of our motorhome with the highest capacity LiFePo-4s that would fit in this limited space. We decided to build our own 560ah LiFePo-4 battery bank with a 330amp Heltec BMS (to start the 5,500-watt onboard generator) and a 5a active balancer for under $1,500 including shipping. I paid $1,358 for 8 cells with busbars, FedEXed to my door in about a week. We built our 12v battery out of 8 grade "A" 280ah LiFePo-4 prismatic cells having an 8,000-cycle projected life at 80% DOD or 6,000 cycles at 100% DOD. If we cycled them 100% every single day, 365 days a year, they would last over 16 years! So, they're obviously going to wear out from age before they wear out from cycling as we only use 15-20% of their capacity daily. This gives us enough reserve capacity for several days of bad weather before we have to run our generator for charging. They even saved us 35 lbs compared to our old FLA batteries and have over 5 times the capacity. I top balanced the cells before I assembled the battery, though they were all within a tenth of a volt when I received them. This was probably unnecessary as our 5-amp active balancer would have surely done the job, but spending this much money, we wanted to do the job right. I'm 67 years old and I want these batteries to last longer than me. They were economical too at $2.68/ah. There are cheaper "B" cells available from China that are typically rated at 3,500-4,000 cycles, but we decided to spend a little more to get the higher rated cells shipped from a California warehouse, so if we got a bad one it would be easier and quicker to return and get a replacement. Happily, this wasn't necessary. We insulated the battery compartment, cut a 1" hole in our step risers and installed a tiny computer CPU fan to circulate just enough room temperature air into his compartment keep this space at close to room temperature, so we don't have to worry about the BMS shutting down charging if they get too cold - or their life reduced from getting too hot.
I just came across this video, it was great, I don't know what you did for a living, but I wish you were my permanent school teacher when I was younger. That was definitely right up there with the best tutorial videos I have ever viewed on youtube, 99 thumbs up. Thank you for taking the time to produce and post it. I will be checking out your other content for sure. Cheers from Nova Scotia Canada minus 6 celsius and one small snow so far.
LiFePO4 is much less sensitive to over charging than the more often seen 18650 LiCoAl. LiPo can be taken to full charge (and should be to balance the cells. But it must be done with a BMS that allows the cells to be balanced. Always use a good quality anti seize paste on stainless threads. It stops aluminium corroding and/or stainless galling.
Teknologi baterai makin maju. Dengan harga yang terjangkau, sekarang kita bisa mendapatkan baterai dengan kinerja yang makin baik. Salam mandiri energi!
Awesome Video! I was going to just buy a power station but after watching this I feel confident enough to build my own power station for half the cost and four times the lifespan thank you so much!
The Bluetooth function is really handy. You can test the system by plugging in 1 appliance at a time and see Exactly how much each one draws. This helps calculate how long you can go between charges. Conversely you could plug in your Absolute Vital appliances and see how long you get. That way when you do not have AC power you know what you can and cannot run.
So grateful for you in many ways. And we'll leave it at that..except to say Thank you so much! You truly are a great person to share you knowledge at a level that all can understand.
Thanks Dan very well spoken very well explained I'm a little afraid of building my own because of the fire hazard but I'm sure there are ways to be safe wow what a savings you're the man
I saved my friend who has a power chair over 1800 dollars in the last two years. He was having to replace a 12v agm in his chair about every 45 days, was basically costing him 300 bucks every 3mo. I built a 26650 lifepo4 24v pack, 7p8s , with all day use he only triggered the BMS shutdown about 10 times in 2 years. After 2y14d the pack finally needed a maintenance rebuild so I pulled it apart and tested and charged each cell, discarded 8 high resistance cells, and put the pack back together with the best cells out of the 56 original pack cells, and 24 cells I had left over from the original pack build. As far as we're concerned, it payed for itself 18 months ago. Has been more than worth it
Mike i have a Renogy 400W system. It has a 100V 40A charge Controller and im wondering how i can or if i can add a second set of cells to my system. I currently use the 280AH 3.V 4 pack. Thank you.
Thanks ! The best explanation so far out there. No hype, no tecnical babble or physical therms. It was strait forward and easy explained. Looking forward to the next episodes.
My brother just built a large pack with these cells. He did a discharge test and was able to reach 100% of its rated capacity. I will be doing the same and will share my results.
@Desmond Bagley These are lithium iron phosphate and are very safe, particularly when used with a BMS that has protections. I've been using lifepo4 in my rv and Jeep for 4 years and know lots of other folks with them. No issues.
Lots of good information about the differences of Lead Acid Batteries and LiFeP04 batteries. I wanted to note, there's a few things most viewers never hear about, and that is AGM charge cycles. Poorly managed AGM will only last around 250 complete charges cycles (less than a year). Should you operate them by the 50% rule of AGM batteries every day, you can potentially get 500 cycles out of them. What I mean by manage is they need to be fully 100% charged before they’re used again, and they are never run below 50%. Then comes the temperature limitation, AGM batteries when close to freezing have a further reduction in Depth of Discharge, example 40º F. This reduction is 49%, ya almost 50%, example 100Ahr -50% is 50Ahr - temperature 40ºF battery temp, and you have roughly 25 Ahr of usable battery. Feels like you getting majorly cheated by your AGM. LifeP04 batteries also have some disadvantage’s : 32º and lower is a major issue, unless you have a heated battery insulated blanket. If you're never going to be camping in the north with out heat in freezing temperatures, they'll be ok. Most lithium batteries can out perform in the charge and discharge area at much higher current than any LeadAcid battery could do. Makes for faster charging cycles. As you hinted on deep of discharge for Lithium, 100% charge cycle is not needed, Lithium batteries can be fast charged to 80% and used with out damaging them. As you said in the video, charge them to 90% capacity is good practice. Fact: when charging a lithium what ever time it took to charge to 80%, the same time will be needed to get to 100%.
Definitely strange times. But about the homeschooling though. A lot of people's kids might be home but remote school via zoom with a teacher is not quite the same as what we do. But that's a topic for a different story.
I think i ordered the same exact batteries recently. The packaging and cells look identical and mine came with the busbars aswell.i don't remember the company I ordered from but I was happy with how they shipped them and how I got them within a week. Now im going your video shows me how to put them together. God bless
Recently, yesterday I received soonbuy 4s 310 AH, they were garbage. My batteries themselves have no identification on them whatsoever but a generic paper sticker if I can I'll post a picture. There's nothing on them about it manufacturer name model manufacturer date batch number or anything like that so I don't know how they keep track of which batteries go together. One of the cells started leaking or was leaking when they packed it which is actually likely and the leaking is caused it to start the delam and trying to get these people to even acknowledge a message much less give a meaningful response is an impossibility. I followed the link provided to get these batteries although I think I might have deviated and gotten 310 instead of 280 but they're worthless and it takes a long time for them to get here especially when they wait a month to ship.
I just put together the same system you recommended with a 250A smart-BMS with bluetooth. All cells (4x280ah) were bottom and top balanced (per Will P.) recommendation. Individual cells were top out at 3.6v in parallel then ensembled together in series with BMS. Prior to charging, all cells were balanced to around 3.337v - 3.410v. Once I started the low amp (5amps) charge, one of the cell was starting to gain in voltage faster than the other 3 cells rapidly (within 20min). I was able to monitor this via bluetooth in realtime to see the voltage gain across all 4 cells. Smart-BMS kicked in around 3.65v for the upper limit fault condition of the defective cell. It started to balance out the rest of the cells; however, its total voltage hit the upper limit as well for the Renogy charger. So the rest of the 3 good cells were topped out around 3.4v. Total Ah was around 250ah due to the defective cell (280Ah advertised). I am currently working with the vendor to replace the defective cell. Not sure how it will turn out but at least they have accepted the results that I provided. it definitely worth $ to invest in a smart BMS (even a 20A model) just to make sure you have good cells prior to install it permanently. Will P. has some good recommendation. I am currently working out some installation bugs (bluetooth and connections) with the BMS provider (may even request to refund or exchange). The technical support level from these manufacturers are non-existence. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN.
Hope it works out for you. Mine ended up working perfectly and capacity tested to 282Ah. I monitored the max min delta thru the whole charge and discharge cycle with no issues. There is definitely risk in ordering these batteries and good luck with your build.
Wow! I’m definitely jealous now lol a canal boat in the Netherlands sounds perfect to me. The other place would be a canal boat in the U.K. Do you have a channel or Instagram with pictures? Would love to see some. Cheers mate
Thanks for the advancement of the technolgy and batteries are getting cheaper, lighter and manageable and thanks for the DIY tutorial videos contribution from the wonderful guys.
Aliexpress now charges $520 USD for the batteries he shows in the video thats on March 8 2021. I don’t know why the price jump but it’s still better than $1,000 USD like it was just 2 years ago. Thank you for such a great video. I am now a subscriber and will be going through your backlog of videos making sure to like and comment on each one lol Between you and Will Prowse I’m finally understanding this stuff so thank you for that. Cheers mate
Thank you so much Dan !!. Look forward to hear your testing of the cells. The cells are EVE copycat cells. I purchased similar cells from xuba on alibaba for 80usd/kwh. The capacity was ok but they could only deliver ~10a. Maybe just variable quality?
I have a capacity test video on the channel. Certainly there are various grades of these cells being offered at several different prices. It can be a bit of a crap shoot but I was fortunate that they tested above rated capacity albeit at a fairly low C rate (0.07C or about 20A) but I am happy with it. They are staying well balanced after a few cycles and offers all the current draw that I need for my application.
Thank you. I have not been able to comprehend the batteries or the value of them and now I know what to look for. I'm off grid and gas prices here in California are 5.80 a gallon
I use huge versions of these, to power forklifts, etc.., at work. The cells do need to be equalized. If under constant use, I would advise anyone relying on them, to run a battery management system, that allows them to equalize their cells, at least once a week.
We bought 14 100 amp hr CD technologies Long duration. AGMs . they were new all same batch. They had a 5 year warrenty. We paid $360.00 for the pallet of 14. That was 2005. We have 3200 watts of solsr and 4 500 watt wind gennies. We have pampered them with proper wiring and fusing with mppt charge controllers. Their overall diminsion of 7"x11"x 21" line up for a perfect match of my bed's foot print. And that's where they have been since sept 2005. They still charege well. Are never cycled and still kikin for goin on 16 years. We're very satisfied in them. They power everything in and around our house. Think we'll stick with them. Zero maintainance. Just like the gennies we installed that have been flyin 24/7 for nearly 12 years hands off up on this mountain in all kinds of weather. Ice storms wind storms heavy duty heat. No prob. Thinking bout replacung the black blades that have UVd out to grey. Haha. Our batteries were a UPS replacement stock. We paid $360. For 1400 amps. Less than one of yours. Were satisfied. Thanks for your info on those batteries. Urs sound. Like a pain to monitor. I just check wiring connections couple times a year. No sweat. We been off grid since 1969. Haha. Our piwer never goes out. Bout a week ago my wife was leaving the grocery store down in the valy when the town bkacked out. No problem up here. Off grid is sweet. Screw the grid and dependance. Stay strong and free.
Do you by chance have a video on building a 36 Volt battery for a Golf Cart ? Great video, well done and easy to understand for someone who's not really good with electronics etc. Thanks !
Those of us who have been flying RC aircraft since forever, and have watched technology transform from nitro power engines to electric motors with Lithium ion and Li-Po batteries. All of that came with a cost of having to upgrade and replace the battery charging stations. I've had my share of inadvertantly charging on the wrong setting and catching them on fire. The chargers and batteries all come with balancing ports and wires for this to make them last longer Our modern controllers have everything to monitor voltages and balances, not to mention our drones hook to laptops or smartphones and do the same via bluetooth or hardwire. There are companies that sell the "server rack" systems that put out 100ah and the server rack that holds six of them. They are pricey at $1,500 each and the rack at $500.....these are direct plug & play into your inverter and hook to laptops as well for monitoring. Price per KwH is from .32/.36 cents. Most heavy duty systems use the 48 volt batteries and inverters and have to be wired directly to an isolated breaker box bus bar with a disconnect in case the power comes back on. Most houses built today need a qualified contractor to evaluate wiring as I've seen some pretty incredible "artistic" work done in them.
Finally prices has dropped here. I ordered four 100Ah LiFe-Po 12v batteries without heating at 474 US $ per battery including 25% sales tax :) Saving 150kg and only cost 300$ more then similar capacity AGM (+50% Ah). I am also considering building a battery pack myself to have more control of the quality of the internal parts and save a little money.
great overview of buying and some of components needed ti DIY LFP batteries. I do have a point if disappointment when discussing price. Sure the 4 cell groups cost under $400 these days when purchased directly from China via Alibaba or AliExpress... however, that is less than half the cost picture as there is shipping. My last check was 8 280ah cells shipped to California was about $750-$850 including shipping but exclusive if added payment processing fees which can run about $50-$70. And the 16 pack of cells might be $1200ish and shipping bumps that up to $1500 give or take. These are still fantastic prices, however, they are far more costly than implied in so many videos. Best deals can be if you do a group buy. Saves a bundle on shipping and you can get an even lower price per cell. I'm close to order my pack of 16 cells... that will give 1120ah of 12v power or 580ah@24v (you still get the 1120ah if you unpack the voltage at point of use for 12v devices... you just save a bunch on the cost for the lower gauge cabling. this is why I'll be setting up in 24v and using only 4 24v solar panels of 435W each...sooo much power to add more boondocking freedom...) anyway just discovered your videos and already appreciate your way of sharing info in a very accessible manner! love it
Two of my buddies have received leaking and bulging cells under the guise of being “new” and are stuck with substandard used batteries. I am researching sellers as much as batteries before I order. will search your channel to see how your batteries are performing. Thanks for the video.
@@freelyroaming yes, it is in my house... I live inside the Yucatan jungle. With 10.7kw solar array it can rain for 10 days and I will not have to use backup generator.... I also have all electric. Stove, oven, laundry etc.
@@freelyroaming yes, thanx... They are 6 units and 48VDC 165 Ah each... From China of course... Very nice idea, they call it power brick. They come on hduty wheeled base so they can be moved very easily for cleaning the floor or anything else... Name GSL Energy.... Placed in my house after taxes, importation and transportation fees the cost me under 3000usd each that is very good price.
Yes I agree the shipping to the USA is free from China and I live in Canada and the shipping alone is $981.35 and the batteries are $592.25. So it looks like my 4 6 volts are looking great. lol thanks for the Information. Maybe once the USA and Canadian borders open again without the Covid tests I can ship to my USA address.
Got so excited seeing this video, great teacher, great explanation, and presentation. Bu the link to the batteries don't seem to work… Page not found error… Any updates? Suggestions.
"Thermal runaway" is a constant problem with lithium batteries of any kind. One pinhole, and you have a fire. In mobile installs, an accident can damage the aluminum box and the batteries inside - instant fire risk. I would stay with a type of deep cycle lead acid battery and add capacity until you have what you need. In a fixed installation, lithium batteries are fine. You are right about the rest of the specifications.
There is a scientific reason for this and it has to the do with the strong covalent bond the oxygen molecules have with the iron phosphate cathode. It is more stable than other lithium ion cathodes in other lithium chemistries and will resist oxygen loss in a short between the anode and cathode that leads to fires and explosions in those other batteries.
thanks for the clear and comprehensive tutorial and limiting the hype! it is very refreshing to watch videos that stick to the point. i am considering to follow your setup to make a 36v pack to run a golf cart. could i simply connect 12 individual cells together to achieve this? how would the Ah work? would it be 280x3=840ah total? anything i should do different with the bms?
Lead acid has been going up since I can remember. A 12v 1000CCA Platimun level battery used to $60 and I thought it was a lot. Now it would go for ~$180-$200
Well explained, i built my own 11 months ago and have the bluetooth daily bms, i can not fault it, 200 ah 12v life po, i can sit under a tree for 3 days solid b4 recharge, how ever i do run solar into a 40 amh dcdc mppt charger, can take 800 watts of solar, with a 1c rating
Just a correction. Less demand does not cause prices to rise in any situation, but rather less supplies causes prices to rise. When camera transition into to digital, the demand for the old technology decreased, thus supplies for that technology decreased. Prices rise cause supplies are less.not cause demand is less.
That's incorrect if you think it doesn't happen 'in any situation'. It actually happens quite frequently. You have explained a simplified, demand-side perspective. You are disregarding short term and long term effects of the supply and demand dynamics. Less demand in the long term causes permenantly decreased production capacity and per unit costs will eventually go up for those who still rely on, or just prefers the product. Especially when a product transitions from being mainstream to niche. If you listen again you will know this is exactly the scenario I am describing in this video. That is exactly what is starting to happen with lead acid deep cycle batteries in the RV and off-grid industries as lithium becomes mainstream. Celluloid film also transitioned thru this phase as digital photography became mainstream along with many other products in history. In our lifetime, we will see internal combustion engine vehicles go thru that same transition as clean energy vehicles take over. When you say it doesnt happen 'in any situation', that is incorrect. You are only looking at short term effects of supply and demand which is primarily demand driven. In a long term, transitional industry, a supply-driven pricing dynamic takes over. That is precisely what is happening here. I've already explained this to another commenter extensively.
Yes indeed. I hope they will prove themselves long term as well. Keep in mind when you buy that some vendors are shipping grade b cells. They will not test at full capacity as mine did. It might be worth paying a bit more to make sure what you buy are grade a cells.
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Really awesome! Bummer the shipping to europe was so expensive. And yes, MUCH cheaper than lead acid. I don't understand why anyone buys lead acid anymore 😂
You don't need a balancer for these cells. If they are matched correctly, the active balancer is a waste of money. If they pull full capacity, you are good to go.
Thanks! Yes I am comfortable with how well balanced the cells came but for 40 bucks I am ok with using the active balancer. After 3 months of using the pack, it's keeping the max-min delta at 6mV. I don't have any conclusive tests to prove it but it will get as much as 30mV apart while under charge or load and recovers really quickly. No complaints! At a low c rate discharge test, it pulled 284Ah!
I want to know how I can set it up in the milk crate and run my 1000 watt air conditioner
In Canada, shipping is also totally prohibitive ... $ 350 Canadian for shipping 4 cell ... ouch !!! $ 700 for 4 cell + $ 359 shipping ... $ 1050 ouch !!!
That's crazy. Try a few different sellers. I've found that many of them have significantly different shipping rates for whatever reason.
@@freelyroaming I noticed the same thing. Shipping costs for the same product which even greatly exceeds the total cost of the product in shipping ... therefore becomes more interesting for several regions of the world
Wow, this is by far the most easily understandable presentation on LiPO4 batteries anywhere on RUclips.
Your explanation of balancing is perfect for a noob like me. I dearly love Will Prowse/David Poz/jehugarcia and others, but YOU have a gift for teaching.
No BS, no hype, no fancy electronics, no triple integrals to make my eyes glaze over, just information presented clearly. No music, good camera work, sound level good.
A Top 5 all time best YT vid! Liked/subbed/forwarded.
That is quite a compliment and I appreciate it very much! Thank you!
Finally, someone who can explain these batteries in a clear and concise way. Thank you Sir. I'm going to double this with 8 batteries using at least a 5000 watt pure sign wave inverter. I have been using 5 full sized lead acid batteries with my vans two 160w solar panels and a 1000 watt inverter. Works perfectly but I worry about off gassing as I noticed that anything that is metal in close proximity of the batteries begins to develop a blue green film from the acid vapor of the batteries. This can't be good. So I will go all out for LiFePO4 batteries. I am an English teacher living in Vietnam. The power is always going out here and I want to build a backup system I can use in the house as well as a future van build. Cheers!
Just now finding your channel. I’m elderly and suffer from hearing loss but find the audio on your videos to be excellent. Your pronunciation is way above par. At this point, with only limited exposure to your videos, I find your work significantly better than the usual fair. I like the logic you bring to the table. Thank you from a new fan of your work.
Thank you for the very nice words. It really helps me to know it's appreciated.
Best explanation I've seen yet for a set up like this. Detailed enough, concise and articulate. Kudos.
Thank you. I subscribed because you are coherent and economical in expressing your ideas. That's an unusual gift.
Thank you sir. Appreciate your subscription.
I love the courtesy of your timestamps but I've never stopped short of watching a complete video yet :-) keep up the good sharing thank you
I personally like it because I will be returning to this video when I do have the money to build my own battery system.
And I don't need to watch all the unnecessary parts. Since I've already seen the entire video right now.
This is probably the most comprehensive and least hyped video about Lithium batteries. And timing is good because in a year's time, I'll be replacing my 3 battery deep-cycle battery bank on my boat and have been looking at AGM, Lithium, etc since in a span of 7 years, it will be the second time I replace the battery bank. Definitely will look further at this. Thanks for the awesome presentation.
Wow, I remember about 2 years ago I saw this video and I was impressed at the time. About two weeks ago I saw another video you made because my interest in solar power grew enough to take me back to this, your video. It it so well made that it is my number one reference of understanding this wonderful concept of renewable energy, THANK YOU. Sending this to my brother to motivate him 😊. Additionally, Im considering making smaller versions of emerging power for my son and daughter. They have now idea of what this 60 y/o man has been through and seen in my long life, and Im greatful for that. Their future may depend immensely on this technology. Once again, thank you, be well and continue to enjoy family and life. 😊
Jerry
In roughly 2008, GM was introducing the parallel hybrid truck or (PHT / Maybe earlier) but as a contract employee, we had two cross-training week long sessions each year. The engineer was pointing out the entire system but to focus on the battery pack, these where in utilities and extend cab trucks. We did not go into the BMS but pointed out they used a NTC thermistor between every two battery packs. Their charging strategy was 80% of full and 20% of discharge. But also it is common practice to design & spec parts that would last 5,000 hours or = 150,000 miles.
Now for AGM. I like the idea but if in a vehicle and discharged two or three times, they are just about done.
Now, what kills a normal battery (Lead Acid / AGM) if the battery in located away from extreme quick temperature changes and vibration by placing it under the rear seat, providing a sealed cavity, vented to outside, will last 10-11 years or longer. This story was told to me by many shops and guys I knew for years.
From the factory, GM used a dense foam cover that fit the battery. In the stack of returns, half of the GM application came back with the foam blanket on it. In the 80’s, magnetic oil pan heaters for Nebraska winter where sold along with dip-stick heaters or cut a hose or remove a frost plug and put in a heater. The best use of less wattage is an electric blanket for the battery. It kept the battery nice and warm and spun the engine over like a warm summers morning.
Just a thought to share. I subscribed and hit the like button. It is worth having someone knowledgeable tell you about the use of Li-ion batteries in vehicles, the channel clearly does it well. Blessings and I will be looking at other videos, as I rebuild my sons steering gear box. ASE Master Tech since 1978 - Retired
Thanks Dean. Appreciate your very useful insight. Looking forward to more interaction with you in the future.
Excellent presentation in all respects! Yes I totally agree that 12V (or 6V) Li-batteries do have a number of significant advantages over AGM's with the best by far being energy density, usable Amps, battery orientation and weight differences (I presently run two 110Ah AGMs in parallel in my off-road caravan and the combined weight is 60kgs)! Battery management is through a high-end MPPT controller (which can also handle Li batteries) fed from 150W solar panel. The down sides for Li batteries here in Australia is firstly, cost with presently up to a 4X $ difference between equivalent AGM's and Li's (Li's being higher cost) and while the Li-battery sellers often "tout" "10+ life-times compared to an equivalent AGM", I'm yet to see any factual confirming data supporting such claims!! Li-batteries however, do definitely last longer than AGM's but just how much longer is pretty much still to be realistically demonstrated which, in my opinion, does not justify Li-batteries high cost. What really worries me (as a retired analytical chemist), is that in my experience Li-battery sellers almost always DO NOT mention Li-batteries VERY SERIOUS property of possible spontaneous ignition (bursting into flames) if cell collapse, short circuit, battery case puncture or even significant over/under charging occurs - a very serious safety issue that really does require knowledgeable understanding by the users of Li-batteries which, unfortunately, is generally not readily understood by many caravanners. Regarding AGM's, yes you can get combustion of oxygen/hydrogen gas evolved if a cell collapses or suffers a short circuit etc, if these batteries are not properly looked after, however in this case it requires a separate source of ignition (usually spark) AND an accumulation of hydrogen in a confined space such that the concentration of evolved hydrogen is both trapped and reaches or exceeds the lower ignition point for hydrogen in air. If using an AGM (or other types of wet-acid batteries) it is a really simple matter to prevent any build-up of hydrogen and oxygen under normal use (for older types of non-valve regulated wet acid types) or even if the above adverse situations occur, by installing a couple of small 12V DC's fans vented to outside from an enclosed battery compartment. The fans can be set to come on when drawing power from or during charging of the AGM's etc., thus totally removing any chance of there being a fire or explosion. Unfortunately, the same extraction process cannot be used to prevent Li-batteries autoignition or combustion possibilities! There are 'always horses for courses' with whichever battery system is adopted BUT benefits and potential hazardous issues for both types of battery systems MUST be rigorously explained by the battery seller AND must also be thoroughly understood by a purchaser before their selection is made! For me for the present, I am sticking with AGM's and putting up with the extra weight disadvantage but enjoying the very significant much lower cost together with what is (IMO) a far safer choice for caravanners.
Cheers from Down Under.
I have seen so many diy battery builds but you are the first one that explained the parts in a way I understood. Thank you!
One of the best presentations on LifePo4 batteries I have come across on the internet, clear, concise and accurate information. Subscribed and will follow your channel as I learn and eventually will build my own battery bank. Thanks
Thank you
You are a great presenter! To the point and explain where needed. Thanks.
Thank you Frank!
You are an excellent presenter. I am checking out your channel right now!
Thank you
Yeah This Was So Informative And He Is Well Spoken And Too The Point!
Thanks Dave!
you have a gift of explaining stuff to people..really rare nowadays..
Thanks so much!
I loved the fact you showed how you started off with the lower version but hoped a new one was being worked on. I thank you for showing that if you dont have all the parts, it just wont work and spares die eventually. Thanks for your time.
Another advantage is ,when one cell goes bad.replace only one,not the entire 6 0r 12 volt cells.and if you want to balance all the cells.just hooked them in parallel overnight.
That's why it is important to have an easy way to see individual cell voltage in case a cell happens to fail. But if the cells are new and matched, there should be further investigation to figure out why one of them would go bad in the first place.
The problem with charging to just 90% is that most BMS bleed balances only kick in at 3.5 Volts - so its unlikely to balance much if at all - The old rule use to be charge to 3.6v per cell for first 1,2,3 charges then 5th then 10th then ever 50 charges - if you have blue tooth then balance charge when cells are 0.1v out - I have my 20amp bulk charger set to 90% constant voltage then a little 0.6amp charger to do the balance charge - do not use a high amp charger to top balance it will overwhelm the BMS which ballance at as little 15ma per cell - The one you have I think is 60ma - even so its not much - I have a little thermal mat under my RV cell stack that kicks in at 2C - was easy to set up using a little digital temperature circuit with relay and a low watt silicon mat - the whole thing cost less than £10 to build and means I can leave it connected to Solar all year round - Good Luck
I remember back in about 2010 ish I was helping out at an EV shop and some cells very similar to these were the traction motor batteries. Off the pallet I had to check their voltage, pair them together, charge them with a pretty normal 12 V charger, then let them rest, check the voltage, discharge them on a big resistor pack that tracked the current and voltage and beeped when finished. Write the basic info on them and recharge them. If they failed I could pair them with others if needed and repeat the cycle. If they failed again, they went onto another pallet. About 1/3 of them failed and 2/3 got to go into the small EVs. Some of them even puffed up during the process.
Subscribed! Always learn more when I watch your videos! Thanks, J
Thank you!
Hey Dan,
I just commented on your Dometic video. I will say this: That cheap 5 - 8A active cell balancer works great!! I have several of them over 3 total builds that I use (That exact one) but I will say this: If you ever get to the point where you aren’t using your LifePO4 battery and it’s just sitting you *NEED* to put a switch on the positive side to turn that balancer on and off. If you do not, it *WILL* drain your batteries very quickly. On my 100AH build it drained it to about 12V in about 35 days. S you have double that so figure 70 days. (For those of you that don’t know, it does this because it’s constantly taking power from the low side and putting it into the high side and you have losses in doing this.) Now of course if you’re always using this like you are then there would be no need. For me I might have a month or SEVERAL months especially during winter where I don’t use my battery so I have a switch built in to turn that active balancer off. When I go to use my battery(ies) I turn the balancer on rather charging or discharging and it’s just great 😊.
P.S, you don’t have thermal run-away with LifePO4, which is why it is superior to regular Lithium Ion type batteries which have a 3.7V nominal such as the 18650’s. They are SUPER safe. Yes, you can and *WILL* damage them by over-charging and over-discharging but they won’t explode or catch fire in doing so.
good to know! I have heard good thing about the active balancers. It makes sense that it will also drain the battery since there is a net loss in the balancing process luckily our batteries will always be hooked up to solar so it wont be a problem. and yes! I have seen lots of examples of what happens to LiFePO4 batteries when they are shorted. No fireworks!!!
just when i think i know enough i see others saying things that is more complex. i do want to say you give the clef notes that is so so needed. i don't need all the information i just need enough to get her done. thanks so much.
Thank you Bob.
Great video. Thanks. We are full-time RVers who wanted to replace the 2 FLA golf cart batteries that were located under the steps of our motorhome with the highest capacity LiFePo-4s that would fit in this limited space. We decided to build our own 560ah LiFePo-4 battery bank with a 330amp Heltec BMS (to start the 5,500-watt onboard generator) and a 5a active balancer for under $1,500 including shipping. I paid $1,358 for 8 cells with busbars, FedEXed to my door in about a week. We built our 12v battery out of 8 grade "A" 280ah LiFePo-4 prismatic cells having an 8,000-cycle projected life at 80% DOD or 6,000 cycles at 100% DOD. If we cycled them 100% every single day, 365 days a year, they would last over 16 years! So, they're obviously going to wear out from age before they wear out from cycling as we only use 15-20% of their capacity daily. This gives us enough reserve capacity for several days of bad weather before we have to run our generator for charging. They even saved us 35 lbs compared to our old FLA batteries and have over 5 times the capacity.
I top balanced the cells before I assembled the battery, though they were all within a tenth of a volt when I received them. This was probably unnecessary as our 5-amp active balancer would have surely done the job, but spending this much money, we wanted to do the job right. I'm 67 years old and I want these batteries to last longer than me. They were economical too at $2.68/ah. There are cheaper "B" cells available from China that are typically rated at 3,500-4,000 cycles, but we decided to spend a little more to get the higher rated cells shipped from a California warehouse, so if we got a bad one it would be easier and quicker to return and get a replacement. Happily, this wasn't necessary. We insulated the battery compartment, cut a 1" hole in our step risers and installed a tiny computer CPU fan to circulate just enough room temperature air into his compartment keep this space at close to room temperature, so we don't have to worry about the BMS shutting down charging if they get too cold - or their life reduced from getting too hot.
I just came across this video, it was great, I don't know what you did for a living, but I wish you were my permanent school teacher when I was younger.
That was definitely right up there with the best tutorial videos I have ever viewed on youtube, 99 thumbs up.
Thank you for taking the time to produce and post it. I will be checking out your other content for sure.
Cheers from Nova Scotia Canada minus 6 celsius and one small snow so far.
Just learned about you due to this video and just subscibed after seeing who you are and family.
Thanks Jesse. We have another channel where we upload more of our travel vlogs if you are interested. ruclips.net/user/malimish
My 4 AGM Yuasi Traction Batteries 6V 225AH cost about 155 euros each with free delivery. Just checked and they are still available. Best wishes.
Yes I second that best explanation and detail to actually build the battery bank thank you
So much clear, precise information. Liked and subbed 👍
Thank you sir!
Well done, very well explained and presented. Huge help in my research :)
Thank you John. Good luck in your research.
LiFePO4 is much less sensitive to over charging than the more often seen 18650 LiCoAl. LiPo can be taken to full charge (and should be to balance the cells. But it must be done with a BMS that allows the cells to be balanced. Always use a good quality anti seize paste on stainless threads. It stops aluminium corroding and/or stainless galling.
Teknologi baterai makin maju. Dengan harga yang terjangkau, sekarang kita bisa mendapatkan baterai dengan kinerja yang makin baik. Salam mandiri energi!
That’s a sweet setup, thanks for sharing! I hope to make something similar soon but still need a few essential components (mainly an inverter)!
Thank you for watching. Good luck with your build.
You sir are fantastic! This is exactly what I was looking for in my van build!
Awesome Video! I was going to just buy a power station but after watching this I feel confident enough to build my own power station for half the cost and four times the lifespan thank you so much!
I would love to know how some of these builds compare with a Jackery 500 or something similar. Can someone post some numbers here in the comments.
The Bluetooth function is really handy. You can test the system by plugging in 1 appliance at a time and see Exactly how much each one draws. This helps calculate how long you can go between charges. Conversely you could plug in your Absolute Vital appliances and see how long you get. That way when you do not have AC power you know what you can and cannot run.
alibaba has these on sale for 80 a piece. been sitting in my cart for weeks now. such a decent deal
Did you look to see if you could get them from some place other than China?
Great Job explaining, Thank you for the information.
So grateful for you in many ways. And we'll leave it at that..except to say Thank you so much! You truly are a great person to share you knowledge at a level that all can understand.
Thank you for such kind words!
Great production, and information. Thanks for sharing
Thanks Dan very well spoken very well explained I'm a little afraid of building my own because of the fire hazard but I'm sure there are ways to be safe wow what a savings you're the man
Thanks Frank. It is definitely best to be safe than sorry.
Lifepo4 are safer with little fire hazard
Excellent video man! Very thorough! I just found your channel and subscribed. Great work 👌
Thanks Ian! Appreciate it.
I saved my friend who has a power chair over 1800 dollars in the last two years. He was having to replace a 12v agm in his chair about every 45 days, was basically costing him 300 bucks every 3mo. I built a 26650 lifepo4 24v pack, 7p8s , with all day use he only triggered the BMS shutdown about 10 times in 2 years. After 2y14d the pack finally needed a maintenance rebuild so I pulled it apart and tested and charged each cell, discarded 8 high resistance cells, and put the pack back together with the best cells out of the 56 original pack cells, and 24 cells I had left over from the original pack build. As far as we're concerned, it payed for itself 18 months ago. Has been more than worth it
Mike i have a Renogy 400W system. It has a 100V 40A charge Controller and im wondering how i can or if i can add a second set of cells to my system. I currently use the 280AH 3.V 4 pack. Thank you.
Thanks ! The best explanation so far out there. No hype, no tecnical babble or physical therms. It was strait forward and easy explained. Looking forward to the next episodes.
Thanks, Dan! I've been looking at the same batteries and BMS to DIY 600-1000Ah for our boat, so I'll be interested to hear how this works out.
My brother just built a large pack with these cells. He did a discharge test and was able to reach 100% of its rated capacity. I will be doing the same and will share my results.
@Desmond Bagley These are lithium iron phosphate and are very safe, particularly when used with a BMS that has protections. I've been using lifepo4 in my rv and Jeep for 4 years and know lots of other folks with them. No issues.
Thanks Dan, appreciate your efforts!
Hi, I really like your explanation, easy to understand and at an appropriate verbal speed. I will follow you up for the rest video.
Greetings from Germany. It is a pleasure to listen to you !
Lots of good information about the differences of Lead Acid Batteries and LiFeP04 batteries. I wanted to note, there's a few things most viewers never hear about, and that is AGM charge cycles. Poorly managed AGM will only last around 250 complete charges cycles (less than a year). Should you operate them by the 50% rule of AGM batteries every day, you can potentially get 500 cycles out of them. What I mean by manage is they need to be fully 100% charged before they’re used again, and they are never run below 50%. Then comes the temperature limitation, AGM batteries when close to freezing have a further reduction in Depth of Discharge, example 40º F. This reduction is 49%, ya almost 50%, example 100Ahr -50% is 50Ahr - temperature 40ºF battery temp, and you have roughly 25 Ahr of usable battery. Feels like you getting majorly cheated by your AGM.
LifeP04 batteries also have some disadvantage’s : 32º and lower is a major issue, unless you have a heated battery insulated blanket. If you're never going to be camping in the north with out heat in freezing temperatures, they'll be ok. Most lithium batteries can out perform in the charge and discharge area at much higher current than any LeadAcid battery could do. Makes for faster charging cycles. As you hinted on deep of discharge for Lithium, 100% charge cycle is not needed, Lithium batteries can be fast charged to 80% and used with out damaging them. As you said in the video, charge them to 90% capacity is good practice. Fact: when charging a lithium what ever time it took to charge to 80%, the same time will be needed to get to 100%.
Thank you for the great feedback!
Well done, If you’re not a teacher, you should be
Thanks Darryl. I appreciate the compliment. I do homeschool my kids so I guess I am a teacher.
Verry well explained indeed. I think we all do homeschool our kids at the moment ;-) thanks to CORONA
Definitely strange times. But about the homeschooling though. A lot of people's kids might be home but remote school via zoom with a teacher is not quite the same as what we do. But that's a topic for a different story.
My thoughts exactly. It's a rare gift.
I think i ordered the same exact batteries recently. The packaging and cells look identical and mine came with the busbars aswell.i don't remember the company I ordered from but I was happy with how they shipped them and how I got them within a week. Now im going your video shows me how to put them together. God bless
Recently, yesterday I received soonbuy 4s 310 AH, they were garbage. My batteries themselves have no identification on them whatsoever but a generic paper sticker if I can I'll post a picture. There's nothing on them about it manufacturer name model manufacturer date batch number or anything like that so I don't know how they keep track of which batteries go together. One of the cells started leaking or was leaking when they packed it which is actually likely and the leaking is caused it to start the delam and trying to get these people to even acknowledge a message much less give a meaningful response is an impossibility. I followed the link provided to get these batteries although I think I might have deviated and gotten 310 instead of 280 but they're worthless and it takes a long time for them to get here especially when they wait a month to ship.
I just put together the same system you recommended with a 250A smart-BMS with bluetooth. All cells (4x280ah) were bottom and top balanced (per Will P.) recommendation. Individual cells were top out at 3.6v in parallel then ensembled together in series with BMS. Prior to charging, all cells were balanced to around 3.337v - 3.410v. Once I started the low amp (5amps) charge, one of the cell was starting to gain in voltage faster than the other 3 cells rapidly (within 20min). I was able to monitor this via bluetooth in realtime to see the voltage gain across all 4 cells. Smart-BMS kicked in around 3.65v for the upper limit fault condition of the defective cell. It started to balance out the rest of the cells; however, its total voltage hit the upper limit as well for the Renogy charger. So the rest of the 3 good cells were topped out around 3.4v. Total Ah was around 250ah due to the defective cell (280Ah advertised). I am currently working with the vendor to replace the defective cell. Not sure how it will turn out but at least they have accepted the results that I provided. it definitely worth $ to invest in a smart BMS (even a 20A model) just to make sure you have good cells prior to install it permanently. Will P. has some good recommendation. I am currently working out some installation bugs (bluetooth and connections) with the BMS provider (may even request to refund or exchange). The technical support level from these manufacturers are non-existence. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN.
Hope it works out for you. Mine ended up working perfectly and capacity tested to 282Ah. I monitored the max min delta thru the whole charge and discharge cycle with no issues. There is definitely risk in ordering these batteries and good luck with your build.
I have the Renogy 400W system what brand cells would you recommend for this build?
I can do this ,I have enough electronics knowledge,I'm thinking about cheaper lithium for my van build as I'm on a strict budget
You can do it! Good luck with your build.
Thanks, I'll be following with interest. I have a canal boat in the Netherlands and will be looking to upgrade from AGM in a couple of years.
Wow! I’m definitely jealous now lol a canal boat in the Netherlands sounds perfect to me. The other place would be a canal boat in the U.K. Do you have a channel or Instagram with pictures? Would love to see some. Cheers mate
Thanks for the advancement of the technolgy and batteries are getting cheaper, lighter and manageable and thanks for the DIY tutorial videos contribution from the wonderful guys.
Aliexpress now charges $520 USD for the batteries he shows in the video thats on March 8 2021. I don’t know why the price jump but it’s still better than $1,000 USD like it was just 2 years ago. Thank you for such a great video. I am now a subscriber and will be going through your backlog of videos making sure to like and comment on each one lol
Between you and Will Prowse I’m finally understanding this stuff so thank you for that.
Cheers mate
Thank you so much Dan !!. Look forward to hear your testing of the cells. The cells are EVE copycat cells. I purchased similar cells from xuba on alibaba for 80usd/kwh. The capacity was ok but they could only deliver ~10a. Maybe just variable quality?
I have a capacity test video on the channel. Certainly there are various grades of these cells being offered at several different prices. It can be a bit of a crap shoot but I was fortunate that they tested above rated capacity albeit at a fairly low C rate (0.07C or about 20A) but I am happy with it. They are staying well balanced after a few cycles and offers all the current draw that I need for my application.
Just commenting because I watched. I'm not into building batteries but cool video
Thanks. I appreciate it.
Very good. Really liked the way you explained battery balance and the overall comparison to AGM.
Thank you David.
Thank you. I have not been able to comprehend the batteries or the value of them and now I know what to look for. I'm off grid and gas prices here in California are 5.80 a gallon
Excellent!
Very detailed, well thought out and excellent delivery. Just subscribed. Thanks amen!
thankyou for explaining about balancing the batteries, it was very clear, now I understand it. thanks again
I use huge versions of these, to power forklifts, etc.., at work.
The cells do need to be equalized.
If under constant use, I would advise anyone relying on them, to run a battery management system, that allows them to equalize their cells, at least once a week.
BMS with balancing feature is a MUST! I also use a secondary dedicated active cell balancer just to be sure things are always kosher.
Very informative. Thank you for taking the time to properly put your presentation together.
We bought 14 100 amp hr CD technologies Long duration. AGMs . they were new all same batch. They had a 5 year warrenty. We paid $360.00 for the pallet of 14. That was 2005. We have 3200 watts of solsr and 4 500 watt wind gennies. We have pampered them with proper wiring and fusing with mppt charge controllers. Their overall diminsion of 7"x11"x 21" line up for a perfect match of my bed's foot print. And that's where they have been since sept 2005. They still charege well. Are never cycled and still kikin for goin on 16 years. We're very satisfied in them. They power everything in and around our house. Think we'll stick with them. Zero maintainance. Just like the gennies we installed that have been flyin 24/7 for nearly 12 years hands off up on this mountain in all kinds of weather. Ice storms wind storms heavy duty heat. No prob. Thinking bout replacung the black blades that have UVd out to grey. Haha. Our batteries were a UPS replacement stock. We paid $360. For 1400 amps. Less than one of yours. Were satisfied. Thanks for your info on those batteries. Urs sound. Like a pain to monitor. I just check wiring connections couple times a year. No sweat. We been off grid since 1969. Haha. Our piwer never goes out. Bout a week ago my wife was leaving the grocery store down in the valy when the town bkacked out. No problem up here. Off grid is sweet. Screw the grid and dependance. Stay strong and free.
Sounds like a good setup for your off grid property.
🇨🇦 WOW, your teaching abilities are astounding🇨🇦 We subbed because of this! Keep up the great vids.
Here in Australia i just purchased out of China 4 x 280Ah Lifepo4 batteries for just under AUD $600 delivered
That's a great price. Good luck with your build.
Do you have the website for where you purchased?
Do you by chance have a video on building a 36 Volt battery for a Golf Cart ? Great video, well done and easy to understand for someone who's not really good with electronics etc. Thanks !
Thank you, you have convinced me to build my own 👍
Those of us who have been flying RC aircraft since forever, and have watched technology transform from nitro power engines to electric motors with Lithium ion and Li-Po batteries.
All of that came with a cost of having to upgrade and replace the battery charging stations. I've had my share of inadvertantly charging on the wrong setting and catching them on fire.
The chargers and batteries all come with balancing ports and wires for this to make them last longer
Our modern controllers have everything to monitor voltages and balances, not to mention our drones hook to laptops or smartphones and do the same via bluetooth or hardwire.
There are companies that sell the "server rack" systems that put out 100ah and the server rack that holds six of them.
They are pricey at $1,500 each and the rack at $500.....these are direct plug & play into your inverter and hook to laptops as well for monitoring.
Price per KwH is from .32/.36 cents.
Most heavy duty systems use the 48 volt batteries and inverters and have to be wired directly to an isolated breaker box bus bar with a disconnect in case the power comes back on.
Most houses built today need a qualified contractor to evaluate wiring as I've seen some pretty incredible "artistic" work done in them.
Finally prices has dropped here. I ordered four 100Ah LiFe-Po 12v batteries without heating at 474 US $ per battery including 25% sales tax :) Saving 150kg and only cost 300$ more then similar capacity AGM (+50% Ah). I am also considering building a battery pack myself to have more control of the quality of the internal parts and save a little money.
That's great news!
my first time watching one of your videos. Very well explained and super coherent. You've got a new subscriber! Looking forward to your future videos.
Thank you for support my videos!
The non reinforced corner is in the middle of the pallet, being protected that way. There's 4 boxes on each layer on the pallet.
I don't think so. If that was the case, the corner below would be missing too. Plus it was not shipped to me on a pallet. It came alone in this box.
great overview of buying and some of components needed ti DIY LFP batteries.
I do have a point if disappointment when discussing price. Sure the 4 cell groups cost under $400 these days when purchased directly from China via Alibaba or AliExpress... however, that is less than half the cost picture as there is shipping. My last check was 8 280ah cells shipped to California was about $750-$850 including shipping but exclusive if added payment processing fees which can run about $50-$70. And the 16 pack of cells might be $1200ish and shipping bumps that up to $1500 give or take. These are still fantastic prices, however, they are far more costly than implied in so many videos.
Best deals can be if you do a group buy. Saves a bundle on shipping and you can get an even lower price per cell.
I'm close to order my pack of 16 cells... that will give 1120ah of 12v power or 580ah@24v (you still get the 1120ah if you unpack the voltage at point of use for 12v devices... you just save a bunch on the cost for the lower gauge cabling. this is why I'll be setting up in 24v and using only 4 24v solar panels of 435W each...sooo much power to add more boondocking freedom...)
anyway just discovered your videos and already appreciate your way of sharing info in a very accessible manner! love it
Superb, just started researching lifepo4, some great info. Price is still a pain point, but your self build system helps that somewhat.
Thank you. Yes I waited for prices to come down to upgrade and ultimately the DIY route made it a no brainer.
Two of my buddies have received leaking and bulging cells under the guise of being “new” and are stuck with substandard used batteries. I am researching sellers as much as batteries before I order. will search your channel to see how your batteries are performing. Thanks for the video.
At 12:50, interest peaked, tapped SUBSCRIBE.
Hello,
Thanks was very clear
Awesome bro cant wait to see build I’ll be a battery builder
Excellent audio video quality! Perfect presentation! Now is a good time to learn more about LiFe, THANKS ! ! !
Thank you!
Great video and explination. Looks like you are somewhere beautiful and warm. Keep up the great work.
thank you!
Just switched to 990Ah lithium 48VDC bank.... They are just perfect.
990Ah at 48v? Wow, that is more power than many electric vehicles can store.
@@freelyroaming yes, it is in my house... I live inside the Yucatan jungle. With 10.7kw solar array it can rain for 10 days and I will not have to use backup generator.... I also have all electric. Stove, oven, laundry etc.
That's awesome
@@freelyroaming yes, thanx... They are 6 units and 48VDC 165 Ah each... From China of course... Very nice idea, they call it power brick. They come on hduty wheeled base so they can be moved very easily for cleaning the floor or anything else... Name GSL Energy.... Placed in my house after taxes, importation and transportation fees the cost me under 3000usd each that is very good price.
Hmm, well... you got my sub. Easy to listen to, best how-to for dummies I seen yet.
Great info, I will follow your channel to assist me in building my setup for my off grid travel trailer.
Yes I agree the shipping to the USA is free from China and I live in Canada and the shipping alone is $981.35 and the batteries are $592.25. So it looks like my 4 6 volts are looking great. lol thanks for the Information. Maybe once the USA and Canadian borders open again without the Covid tests I can ship to my USA address.
Great content. I really enjoyed the video. I would skip the cell balancer for sure but I think the build is going to be great!
Got so excited seeing this video, great teacher, great explanation, and presentation. Bu the link to the batteries don't seem to work… Page not found error… Any updates? Suggestions.
"Thermal runaway" is a constant problem with lithium batteries of any kind. One pinhole, and you have a fire. In mobile installs, an accident can damage the aluminum box and the batteries inside - instant fire risk. I would stay with a type of deep cycle lead acid battery and add capacity until you have what you need. In a fixed installation, lithium batteries are fine. You are right about the rest of the specifications.
Not LiFePO4. They are very unlikely to have thermal runaway even when punctured. Many tests have been done.
There is a scientific reason for this and it has to the do with the strong covalent bond the oxygen molecules have with the iron phosphate cathode. It is more stable than other lithium ion cathodes in other lithium chemistries and will resist oxygen loss in a short between the anode and cathode that leads to fires and explosions in those other batteries.
thanks for the clear and comprehensive tutorial and limiting the hype! it is very refreshing to watch videos that stick to the point. i am considering to follow your setup to make a 36v pack to run a golf cart. could i simply connect 12 individual cells together to achieve this? how would the Ah work? would it be 280x3=840ah total? anything i should do different with the bms?
Great, great, great video. Well described and presented.
Thank you!
excellent video! You're going to save people a lot of cash money!
Wry good information you have done your homework. Thank you
Fantastic video, great information keep up the good work
Vary clear and a complete description. Good 😊 job.
Thank you sir
Great Thank you!!!
Hi Dan, I’m enjoyed your video, I like the relaxed presentation style.
Thank you!
Lead acid has been going up since I can remember. A 12v 1000CCA Platimun level battery used to $60 and I thought it was a lot. Now it would go for ~$180-$200
Well explained, i built my own 11 months ago and have the bluetooth daily bms, i can not fault it, 200 ah 12v life po, i can sit under a tree for 3 days solid b4 recharge, how ever i do run solar into a 40 amh dcdc mppt charger, can take 800 watts of solar, with a 1c rating
Thank you. At my discharge rate I should last about 3 days as well without sun. A big upgrade from my AGM pack that needed recharging daily.
Just a correction. Less demand does not cause prices to rise in any situation, but rather less supplies causes prices to rise. When camera transition into to digital, the demand for the old technology decreased, thus supplies for that technology decreased. Prices rise cause supplies are less.not cause demand is less.
That's incorrect if you think it doesn't happen 'in any situation'. It actually happens quite frequently. You have explained a simplified, demand-side perspective. You are disregarding short term and long term effects of the supply and demand dynamics. Less demand in the long term causes permenantly decreased production capacity and per unit costs will eventually go up for those who still rely on, or just prefers the product. Especially when a product transitions from being mainstream to niche. If you listen again you will know this is exactly the scenario I am describing in this video. That is exactly what is starting to happen with lead acid deep cycle batteries in the RV and off-grid industries as lithium becomes mainstream. Celluloid film also transitioned thru this phase as digital photography became mainstream along with many other products in history. In our lifetime, we will see internal combustion engine vehicles go thru that same transition as clean energy vehicles take over. When you say it doesnt happen 'in any situation', that is incorrect. You are only looking at short term effects of supply and demand which is primarily demand driven. In a long term, transitional industry, a supply-driven pricing dynamic takes over. That is precisely what is happening here. I've already explained this to another commenter extensively.
These are the batteries that I hope to use on my off grid home build. Amazing value.
Yes indeed. I hope they will prove themselves long term as well. Keep in mind when you buy that some vendors are shipping grade b cells. They will not test at full capacity as mine did. It might be worth paying a bit more to make sure what you buy are grade a cells.