I'm just building mine - I went for a blue tooth 120A BMS that allows me to see whats going on and alter peramiters - it was actually cheaper than the daily unit
The copper plates are leafed together for a purpose. It is very important actually. If the batteries go to zero they will swell. They will allow the batteries to expand and not break apart.
Great video. The batteries on our Airstream Bambi need replacing and found your video on a random search and am now subscribed. Good content and well edited to keep my interest.
Glad you found us! We are airstream owners as well. We full timed in our 2007 international until we downsized to travel internationally in 2016. Still own her she will probably never sell.
Would you need a shunt and, a BMS? I thought they pretty much had the same job??? (Particularly; with a 48V / sixteen, 3.2ah batteries; wired in series, then parallel)....Thank you!!...Love what yo do and have shared your videos with multiple people!
They do very different things. A BMS is to monitor and balance cells by voltage while a shunt is to monitor state of charge by counting amps going and and coming out. Some BMS will calculate amps as well but they are not common and less accurate. You can skip the shunt but definitely don't skip the BMS.
The DALY is a BMS for charging / discharging monitoring, not for balancing the cells. That is why you bought the 2ns optional item. JK BMS offers active balancing BMS.
While this Daly BMS does not do active balancing but it does do passive balancing. That's why the active balancer is just optional. Please note that this video is several years old and more options are available now.
Prices have sky rocketed since you made this video, the batteries alone from your link are $560.00. I have found them cheaper at other sites but I'm not sure if they are a reputable place to buy batteries from.
You can avoid buying all of the extra peripherals like the capacity checker, victron shunt etc etc. and make the build simple and stream line. Buy the Daly BMS with Bluetooth dongle and temperature probe. it will provide you all the information like each cell voltage, temp cut off, capacity etc. all via a Bluetooth app on your phone. More pieces you have more things will break short out rust etc etc. this is how I have built several packs. All good. Again to each is own. We are all learning ;)
The Victron shunt does more than what the Daly bluetooth module can do. It is a true heavy duty shunt and integrates with the rest of my system seamlessly. I would still use a dedicated shunt as a coulometer even with a BMS that outputs battery data. As far as I know, there are no Daly BMS as the time when I built my pack that had low temp shut off. And even if it did have a temperature probe, it would not be able to communicate with my Victron charger so I would still need my Victron temperature sensor to cut off solar charge. So really they only thing I would save on is the $8 capacity checker. And the Bluetooth version of the Daly costs way more than 8 bucks than the one I have. I'm good with that. Checking cell balance is the feature I use the least. And if any individual component on it was to fail, I would not need to replace the entire BMS just because one of the features stopped working. Fewer single points of failure. But as you said, to each his own.
Thanks for the very comprehensive tutorial! Im planning on building the same pack myself also. The link to the aliexpress only takes you to the search page. What was the exact aliexpress vendor you bought these from? Thanks!
Look a little further down the description and you will find who I got mine from. It's more expensive than others but those other ones didn't ship to my location for free.
The Victron Smart Shunt has an optional lead which includes a temperature sensor, then the separate Victron Smart Battery Monitor is not needed. Just change the sensor type to temperature in the Smart Shunt settings via Bluetooth. To be fair it would be better to say the Daly BMS does have many communication (then configuration) options except on the budget models. Also it's good to know there is a version of the Victron VenusOS for Raspberry Pi plus an open source driver which will let you get the (more expensive) BMS communication integrated with the Victron monitoring and control system for cheap (no need to buy a GX device, perhaps just a few more dollars for the BMS with UART-USB cable). With respect (it's easy to say when you know), if you took the money paid for the cell monitor, extra cables and extra battery monitor, that would more than pay for the BMS with communication cable, perhaps even for a small Raspberry Pi for the Victron integration ;-)
Hello! I appreciate if you give me of some advice from you who have enough experiences in lifepo4 battery. Recently I have purchased 4pcs X 280ah lifepo4 battery as well as suitable BMS. As for the active cell balancer, is it essential to build up 12V lifepo4 battery system? What is it? purpose? Thanks. from Osaka
Hi I've just ordered components to make a 280ah lifepo battery for my campervan at present van has lead acid and a split charge relay will I have to go over to a dc to dc charger for my lithium thanks
I like the batteries, but it would have been cheaper and simpler to get a programmable BMS with integrated temperature control, load balancer and built-in monitoring
Hey Dan, Thanks so much for all this great information! We finally received our cells and will be building our two 280 amp batteries. Could you please tell me could I use the Victron smart shunt for both batteries or would we need to use one for each? Love that you all are in Croatia, was in that part of the world a couple years ago and can't wait to get back. Thanks again for all your amazing knowledge. Melanie
Hi Melanie, thank you and you are very welcome. Only use a single shunt in your system so you can measure the complete systems charge and discharge in one view. Having 2 separate shunts would make it difficult to know what your consumption rate is. I only install the shunt in the battery box because I know it's the only pack I am going to have.
@@freelyroaming that makes total sense. Such a confusing process really appreciate your help. If I may , can I ask one more question? Sizing the bms for each battery and we will be using a couple high powered things like 12 volt ac and sometimes a air fryer oven what size bms would we use?
If you are connecting the batteries in parallel then each pack will be used at half of the highest draw. Figure out what your highest draw will be and get the BMSs to accommodate that. For example, a 150A BMS can handle about 1800 watts continuous. If you are going to have a constant draw of 3600 watts, you will need 300A of capacity. That is including the efficiency losses of your AC inverter.
@@freelyroaming Dan, just wondering if you think combining these this way would limit us as far as if we have problems we then would be out of power while traveling? we want to go international and wondering if having two separate batteries would be a wiser move? Also, I see you do consults and was wondering if once we get our set up on paper if we could do a consult to go over our battery build and electrical setup?
Hey man, Love this inspiring video. I'm trying to build 4 x 12v 320ah battery's, so basically 4x the battery in this video. I then want to connect them all in parallel. So I have around 1280ah battery life. If I get this.....should I buy BMS Li-ion LiFePO4 16s 12V 500A and 2x 5A - 8A Active Balancer Equalizer 8S Lipo Lifepo4 Would that work, or would you recommend a different way or doing the BMS and active balancer?
I have 1.1 kw of solar power across 3 MPPT chargers 40 amp and 2 x 20amps. Its on a caravan and had to use 3 x MPPTs as the variation of solar panels needed that. It works great on 800ah of AGM battery's, but this would halve the weight of the batteries and triple my useable battery AH (Storage)
Not in all applications. Laminated bus bars allow you to shape them into unique designs for very specific applications. If it's just a flat solid bar, there is no benefit. This the same as stranded copper wire vs solid copper wire.
If you were to use 8/12/16 cells (560/840/1120AH), would you need four BMS's and cell balancers? I need to source the parts but will be having someone else install it. I'm probably going with 12 or 16 cells (840AH / 1120AH). Great video series. Thank you.
Thank you for sharing. By using it now, can you say that a 120A BMS is enough for a such battery capacity. Mine is a 200AH and i found that it can have peaks until 600A, so i was searching for a BMS 200A with minimum 700A peaks of discharge... I'm learning so i would be happy to exchange about your knowledge et most of all now about your experience. DaVid
How long did it take to ship the cells? I see on Aliexpress that they are only guaranteed to arrive within 4 months from now, was that your experience?
It took me exactly 1 month to receive mine. But I do believe the 4 month timeframe is sometimes listed as an way for them to manage expectations. Also these cells have gotten really popular lately so it is possible that some sellers have them on backorder.
Just an FYI for everyone. The electrodacus (if I spelled correctly) does it all better and much cheaper on any system S8 and below. I wish I would’ve known about it before I set up my s16 system ... peace out! ✌️
There is one big issue with the Electrodacus. It doesn't seem to have a flyback diode for high inductor voltage protection. It should be an easy fix but I don't know why it hasn't been done.
I received my 8 lifepo4 cells from your link a few months ago, now im ready to build a battery bank. You commented on being limited to the parts you could get, im wondering if you would have choose a different daly bms if you could have? I watched the recent build will did like yours and he went with a 250a bms and its a better model but twice the cost. He's in hotter climate so he used a milk crate, so he didn't need the insulation and cold weather precautions you do so im wondering when i build mine exactly like you did what else you would change. If anything? Thanks for any input!
@@freelyroaming There are a lot of information you gave. By the way, I am building some 48V 320Ah. Should I use a higher ampere balancer or just 10A like yours?
Hi Dan,.... I have questions on my RV solar installation. I have five, 200w (20.23v) panels and, one portable panel. I am hoping to have the portable also be connected in series with the others to do some double-duty and when my battery box gets built, I am hopeful that the portable panel can also be used when it needs charging????. I have 16, 280 ah (3.2V) batteries, along with a 48v, all-in-one MPPT CC. Someone is telling me that the batteries will only give me 280 ah (TOTAL), because it will be wired for a 48v system. In essence; he's saying that I will not get the 1120 ah (280 x 40 because I'm not using them in a 12V system). He is basically telling be that I will have wasted batteries. This just doesn't resonate well with me; is he correct?
Connecting the portable panel in series with the roof panels will be tricky but certainly possible. Just make sure your system is setup to handle the change in voltage when you connect and disconnect the portable panel. Also this will only help you if the portable panel is the same watt and nominal volt rating as the rest of the panels. Otherwise you can potentially reduce your overall output significantly. I don't have a video on this topic yet but here is one from ExploristLife you can refer to. ruclips.net/video/jejro4zkl8I/видео.html
I am interested in building a 12 volt marine battery to be used on a trolling motor. The ones that are typically used for my application are 60 AH. I plan to use two in series to run a 24 volt motor. Are these smaller AH components available? Are there cases available?
I'm not using mine for a main battery supply keeping it separate for other low draw power items , I'm thinking balanced cells are low on the list for what we are using it for I'm talking watts draw not amps at a time I will add a bms, your thoughts. ?
Hi my Friend, may I ask , if u had the chance to order whatever parts u wished for ( because u couldnt buy any part u wanted or ship it to croatia ) what would those parts be ? thank you in advance
Researching this for an audio install. Couldnt most of those extra components be part of a higher end BMS, like temp monitoring and cut off, logging and cell monitoring, reducing cost and complexity?
Hi Really learning a lot from your videos. I am really struggling finding the BMS you are using as there are a myriad of options. Could you post a link? Thanks
Just wondering I have the same setup with daly 150A BMS but for some reason my SOC shows 0 percent. Thr cell has only .01V difference and all other voltage test fine. Ohms is 117 Ohms. Temperature sensor works fine. Any chance you might know what went wrong?
Thanks! Yes the main reason is because I already own the Battery Sense to use with my 2 Victron SmartSolar charge controllers. The second reason is because I was not originally planning to use the SmartShunt. The battery sense as a standalone product was more versatile in that way. And the third reason, haha yeah I have too many reasons, is because it was not available to ship to my address here in Croatia for some unknown reason even though the battery sense was. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ And now I still have the option to monitor the voltage of a second battery if I chose to.
@@freelyroaming Hi Im new to your channel ,really like your content, can you please make a video of how to make for example wire lugs from copper wire for 4awg wire tks
@Freely Roaming Thanks for the information, so do separate port BMS have four cables coming out of them? Are there advantages for having separate ports? My inverter/charger can charger as high as 70amps, but I will be pulling a load off the inverter just under 200amps. I was thinking of going at a 250amp or 300amp Daly BMS, any suggestions?
Separate port will have an extra wire than common port. Besides the voltage wires, there will be 3 instead of 2 on a common port. The advantage of separate port is isolating the charge current so when the BMS senses low voltage shutdown, it will still allow incoming charging current without a need to reset the system. The main down side is separate port usually have significantly less charging capacity. Usually at half or less than the discharging limit.
Have you tested the low temp disconnect on that Daly BMS? Will Prowse has been testing them in his videos and concluded that they do not work. Would hate for your batteries to get junked.
Daly does not have low temp disconnect nor do they market it as having that feature. I am using a separate temp sensor that communicates with my chargers to stop charging when the temp is below a predetermined level. You can watch part 4 of this series to see how that works.
It depends on the battery type, configuration of cells and output limit. For example, my configuration has 4 cells in parallel, the battery type is LiFePO4 and my max discharge is 120A. So I chose a 4S LiFePO4 120A BMS. Lastly, common port and separate port means whether you will charge from the same negative port or have one for each charging and discharging. Choose common port unless you know why you need a separate port bms.
@@freelyroaming Thanks for the information, so do separate port BMS have four cables coming out of them? Are there advantages for having separate ports? My inverter/charger can charger as high as 70amps, but I will be pulling a load off the inverter just under 200amps. I was thinking of going at a 250amp or 300amp Daly BMS, any suggestions?
Honestly, I don't understand why buying such a BMS with no shunt, no temp control, etc. If you add all the $ spent on those multiple devices, the risk they might fail, the need for extra connections, the not so clean look at the end, then you will realize that buying a good BMS is actually cheaper an neater than that one.
There are lots of reasons. BMS units don't have internal shunt resistors. If they measure current internally, they are using hall effects sensors which are less accurate. They also don't integrate well with other devices like solar charge controllers or have as many features as compared to getting a victron shunt that networks with other victron devices in the system. In the long run, people who want to build good systems will end up getting a shunt anyways. Less wires might be what you prefer but better accuracy and more interoperability and flexibility is more important to others. Dedicated devices are always more capable and far more robust and less likely to fail than integrated extra features. You might save a couple bucks now but you'll end up spending more later. Conversely, you have a single point of failure for multiple features if you rely on the BMS for all of it. It's main job is to protect and maintain the cells. It might do all those other jobs but it does them poorly. And lastly, you might have access to options where you are from while people around the world might not. Not every product is available around the world. It's not difficult to see all of these might be reasons why other people choose to use different device than you.
You'll need to know how many watts your appliances draw and do the math. For example, our fridge draws 30 watts and it is on about 20 minutes per hour. That is 10 watt hours of power every hour. My battery pack has about 3600 watt hours of capacity so it will run my fridge alone with 360 hours.
@@herbbates4713 actually it is not hard at all. It sounds like you have never looked into it. The process of shipping a 40ft bus is the same as shipping my 22 ft van or an industrial excavator. I've done it and know lots other who have also done exactly that. But to your original question, you asked if people expect to camp at minus degrees. Yes people do it regularly and often times on purpose. It's not hard to believe that if you just look a little beyond your personal preferences. I don't know where you are getting your data from but 'most' people have not visited even a majority of the US states. Not even close. You really gotta start thinking and looking at people who are not just like yourself. RVers are not just people of your nationality and demographic.
Yes it is based on the maximum current you will be running thru the cable in either direction. Load current or charge current, whichever is greater. Oversize them if you can just to keep things nice and cool. Running undersized cables will increase resistance, build heat and decrease voltage. None of those are good things to have in your electrical system.
The BMS does not do active balancing. Only passive. Meaning it's less efficient and slower. It also doesn't have a shunt. If it measures current, it does it using a hall effects sensor. It's less accurate and more importantly, it does not integrate with other devices in your system as a Victron shunt can. If you are just trying to build a basic battery for basic use, it'll suffice. But for a more robust and fully-featured system, those built in features on the bms do not offer the same benefits. But since you claimed you will never understand, this is probably a waste of time for you to learn.
I have 8 x 3.2v 300Ah LiFePO4 brand new batteries and want to know what Ah's will I end up with when I connect all of these for a 12v power supply battery? I am somewhat confused because running 4 3.2 batteries in series I do ger 12 volts by the Amperage is not 4 x 300 is this correct??
With 8 cells you are going to want to connect them first in parallel to form 4 pairs of 2 cells each. That will double the Ah giving you 4 sets of 600Ah at 3.2v each set. Then when you connect the 4 pairs in series, you will end up with 12.8v pack at 600Ah. It is referred to as a 2P4S pack.
@@freelyroaming We covered a 7.5tonne lorry into a full time camper van and lived in it for 4 years travelling around Spain and Morocco great experience. Sold it and now getting a catamaran ready for the next adventure Thanks again for your help
Subscribed today.Nice channel.Please more precise link for the batteries I live in Macedonia and also have problem with buying stuff.Also beginner who will need help.ty
This is where I bought mine but it's not the cheapest price on AliExpress. But if you are willing to pay a bit more for confirmed quality and delivery, here you go. www.aliexpress.com/item/4000947956694.html
With a max discharge rate of 1C, you could draw a massive continuous 14,334 watts from it if you ever need to. You would need some serious cabling. You could also consider building a 24v or 48v pack instead to take advantage of thinner wires. You've got a lot of options at that size.
@@freelyroaming i must be doing my math wrong. I am ultimately working toward building a system that has enough capacity to run a window AC (550watts) plus my other electrical appliances (add another 250watts) almost continually in summer. I currently have 4x 210 watt panels - going to my 60A EPEVER MPPT charge controller - charging 3x 138AH green Vallence lithium EV batteries. - But I never got the capacity that i had expected out of them . I do full time off grid RVing in Arizona, so the heat can get brutal. I'm trying to oversize to possibly even run 2 window AC's at the peak of the day.
@@thomasvictor4883 Your charge controller limits your solar panels to around 700W. Your batteries should be good around 400A at 12V, so 5 kWh storage. Looks like your inverter is trash if you can't even get it running. If you want a second AC, you definitely need another charger and at least 2 more pv panels.
@@Psi-Storm I have about 830w of solar, but get about 500 in full sun. My inverter is great with powering stuff but my batteries run out too soon. So I am looking to build a larger battery bank
Separately port charge currents are extremely limited. From what I've read, Victron engineers have confirmed that their SmartSolar MPPT controllers will not be damage if the BMS goes into disconnect. In fact that is how their lifepo4 battery is designed and works as well. We shall see over time if they are right.
yes your batteries are cheap but by the time you add all these extra components, it ends up being the same as just buying a 280AH single battery with less hassle. I really could not be bothered adding millions of extra components to my batteries...
Yes exactly. What I don't understand is he left the same comment on part 1 and part 4 of this series. Is it so hard to see at least what the video titles of part 2 and 3 are before belligerently commenting?
could you use the victron bms Victron Victron BMS 12/200 i dont think you can because it does not have cable to balance those battery cells ive bought sams as you waiting for them to turn up many thanks colin
I'm just building mine - I went for a blue tooth 120A BMS that allows me to see whats going on and alter peramiters - it was actually cheaper than the daily unit
link please?
The copper plates are leafed together for a purpose. It is very important actually. If the batteries go to zero they will swell. They will allow the batteries to expand and not break apart.
Check out cell compression. A whole other world hides behind what you just said.
@@petergoestohollywood382 you want the cell to expand, but you don't want the terminal to bend, so he was totally right
Great video. The batteries on our Airstream Bambi need replacing and found your video on a random search and am now subscribed. Good content and well edited to keep my interest.
Glad you found us! We are airstream owners as well. We full timed in our 2007 international until we downsized to travel internationally in 2016. Still own her she will probably never sell.
Thank you so much our battery’s have just arrived after two months of shipping but worth the wait for what could be an amazing build
That's awesome! Very happy for you.
Did you order the SoonBuy cells? do you have any feedback? Looking to buy mine but wary of SoonBuy's quality since they are the cheapest on the site
Would you need a shunt and, a BMS? I thought they pretty much had the same job??? (Particularly; with a 48V / sixteen, 3.2ah batteries; wired in series, then parallel)....Thank you!!...Love what yo do and have shared your videos with multiple people!
They do very different things. A BMS is to monitor and balance cells by voltage while a shunt is to monitor state of charge by counting amps going and and coming out. Some BMS will calculate amps as well but they are not common and less accurate. You can skip the shunt but definitely don't skip the BMS.
The DALY is a BMS for charging / discharging monitoring, not for balancing the cells. That is why you bought the 2ns optional item. JK BMS offers active balancing BMS.
While this Daly BMS does not do active balancing but it does do passive balancing. That's why the active balancer is just optional. Please note that this video is several years old and more options are available now.
Prices have sky rocketed since you made this video, the batteries alone from your link are $560.00. I have found them cheaper at other sites but I'm not sure if they are a reputable place to buy batteries from.
You can avoid buying all of the extra peripherals like the capacity checker, victron shunt etc etc. and make the build simple and stream line. Buy the Daly BMS with Bluetooth dongle and temperature probe. it will provide you all the information like each cell voltage, temp cut off, capacity etc. all via a Bluetooth app on your phone. More pieces you have more things will break short out rust etc etc. this is how I have built several packs. All good. Again to each is own. We are all learning ;)
The Victron shunt does more than what the Daly bluetooth module can do. It is a true heavy duty shunt and integrates with the rest of my system seamlessly. I would still use a dedicated shunt as a coulometer even with a BMS that outputs battery data. As far as I know, there are no Daly BMS as the time when I built my pack that had low temp shut off. And even if it did have a temperature probe, it would not be able to communicate with my Victron charger so I would still need my Victron temperature sensor to cut off solar charge. So really they only thing I would save on is the $8 capacity checker. And the Bluetooth version of the Daly costs way more than 8 bucks than the one I have. I'm good with that. Checking cell balance is the feature I use the least. And if any individual component on it was to fail, I would not need to replace the entire BMS just because one of the features stopped working. Fewer single points of failure. But as you said, to each his own.
Subscribed today. Very good job!!
Thank you!
I swear- you are a friggin' McGyver on this build, Dan!!!
You can buy the Dlay smart BMS for those features.
I'm assembling the same cells right now. why did you add an additional balancer to the BMS? I thought the Daly BMS did that.
It is supposed to but for 30 bucks. I am seeing if a dedicated balance makes a bigger difference. Time will tell.
Thanks for the very comprehensive tutorial! Im planning on building the same pack myself also. The link to the aliexpress only takes you to the search page. What was the exact aliexpress vendor you bought these from? Thanks!
Look a little further down the description and you will find who I got mine from. It's more expensive than others but those other ones didn't ship to my location for free.
The Victron Smart Shunt has an optional lead which includes a temperature sensor, then the separate Victron Smart Battery Monitor is not needed. Just change the sensor type to temperature in the Smart Shunt settings via Bluetooth.
To be fair it would be better to say the Daly BMS does have many communication (then configuration) options except on the budget models. Also it's good to know there is a version of the Victron VenusOS for Raspberry Pi plus an open source driver which will let you get the (more expensive) BMS communication integrated with the Victron monitoring and control system for cheap (no need to buy a GX device, perhaps just a few more dollars for the BMS with UART-USB cable).
With respect (it's easy to say when you know), if you took the money paid for the cell monitor, extra cables and extra battery monitor, that would more than pay for the BMS with communication cable, perhaps even for a small Raspberry Pi for the Victron integration ;-)
Hello! I appreciate if you give me of some advice from you who have enough experiences in lifepo4 battery. Recently I have purchased 4pcs X 280ah lifepo4 battery as well as suitable BMS. As for the active cell balancer, is it essential to build up 12V lifepo4 battery system? What is it? purpose? Thanks. from Osaka
Awsome video We're can I get the buss bar? I need some.
Amazing video! Thank you so Much!
Thank you!
Hi I've just ordered components to make a 280ah lifepo battery for my campervan at present van has lead acid and a split charge relay will I have to go over to a dc to dc charger for my lithium thanks
I like the batteries, but it would have been cheaper and simpler to get a programmable BMS with integrated temperature control, load balancer and built-in monitoring
Do you have an example of one that is programmable?
Nice detailed video. Would appreciate if you can mention the battery charger you are using for this setup. Tia.
Thank you. In part 4 of this series you will see all 4 different chargers in using with my system.
Hello, great videos! Are you renting a house in Croatia and how much it cost?
We have a family house here we get to use.
So with the low temperature sensor then the batteries won't get damaged if they freeze and there is no need for a battery heater?
After using them for a while, how well would you say they performed?
ruclips.net/video/KlKXdEaTixE/видео.html
Hey Dan, Thanks so much for all this great information! We finally received our cells and will be building our two 280 amp batteries. Could you please tell me could I use the Victron smart shunt for both batteries or would we need to use one for each? Love that you all are in Croatia, was in that part of the world a couple years ago and can't wait to get back. Thanks again for all your amazing knowledge. Melanie
Hi Melanie, thank you and you are very welcome. Only use a single shunt in your system so you can measure the complete systems charge and discharge in one view. Having 2 separate shunts would make it difficult to know what your consumption rate is. I only install the shunt in the battery box because I know it's the only pack I am going to have.
@@freelyroaming that makes total sense. Such a confusing process really appreciate your help. If I may , can I ask one more question? Sizing the bms for each battery and we will be using a couple high powered things like 12 volt ac and sometimes a air fryer oven what size bms would we use?
If you are connecting the batteries in parallel then each pack will be used at half of the highest draw. Figure out what your highest draw will be and get the BMSs to accommodate that. For example, a 150A BMS can handle about 1800 watts continuous. If you are going to have a constant draw of 3600 watts, you will need 300A of capacity. That is including the efficiency losses of your AC inverter.
@@freelyroaming thanks again you rock!
@@freelyroaming Dan, just wondering if you think combining these this way would limit us as far as if we have problems we then would be out of power while traveling? we want to go international and wondering if having two separate batteries would be a wiser move? Also, I see you do consults and was wondering if once we get our set up on paper if we could do a consult to go over our battery build and electrical setup?
Hey man, Love this inspiring video. I'm trying to build 4 x 12v 320ah battery's, so basically 4x the battery in this video. I then want to connect them all in parallel. So I have around 1280ah battery life. If I get this.....should I buy BMS Li-ion LiFePO4 16s 12V 500A and 2x 5A - 8A Active Balancer Equalizer 8S Lipo Lifepo4 Would that work, or would you recommend a different way or doing the BMS and active balancer?
I have 1.1 kw of solar power across 3 MPPT chargers 40 amp and 2 x 20amps. Its on a caravan and had to use 3 x MPPTs as the variation of solar panels needed that. It works great on 800ah of AGM battery's, but this would halve the weight of the batteries and triple my useable battery AH (Storage)
From what I understand, laminated buss bars carry current better than solid.
Not in all applications. Laminated bus bars allow you to shape them into unique designs for very specific applications. If it's just a flat solid bar, there is no benefit. This the same as stranded copper wire vs solid copper wire.
@@freelyroaming Pure copper laminate bars are better with proper torque. However the plated copper bars are not as good in my opinion.
If you were to use 8/12/16 cells (560/840/1120AH), would you need four BMS's and cell balancers? I need to source the parts but will be having someone else install it. I'm probably going with 12 or 16 cells (840AH / 1120AH). Great video series. Thank you.
Thank you so much to share your precious knowledge! are you using the common port or separate port BMS?
Thanks Alberto. This is a common port BMS.
what type of inverter do you recommend to use with this pack 12V 280A ?
Thank you for sharing.
By using it now, can you say that a 120A BMS is enough for a such battery capacity.
Mine is a 200AH and i found that it can have peaks until 600A, so i was searching for a BMS 200A with minimum 700A peaks of discharge...
I'm learning so i would be happy to exchange about your knowledge et most of all now about your experience.
DaVid
How long did it take to ship the cells? I see on Aliexpress that they are only guaranteed to arrive within 4 months from now, was that your experience?
It took me exactly 1 month to receive mine. But I do believe the 4 month timeframe is sometimes listed as an way for them to manage expectations. Also these cells have gotten really popular lately so it is possible that some sellers have them on backorder.
Have yours arrived yet Unistarguy? I oredered a week ago, would love to hear how long ots taking for other people!
Just an FYI for everyone. The electrodacus (if I spelled correctly) does it all better and much cheaper on any system S8 and below. I wish I would’ve known about it before I set up my s16 system ... peace out! ✌️
There is one big issue with the Electrodacus. It doesn't seem to have a flyback diode for high inductor voltage protection. It should be an easy fix but I don't know why it hasn't been done.
I received my 8 lifepo4 cells from your link a few months ago, now im ready to build a battery bank. You commented on being limited to the parts you could get, im wondering if you would have choose a different daly bms if you could have?
I watched the recent build will did like yours and he went with a 250a bms and its a better model but twice the cost. He's in hotter climate so he used a milk crate, so he didn't need the insulation and cold weather precautions you do so im wondering when i build mine exactly like you did what else you would change. If anything? Thanks for any input!
Why did you use the 120A BMS? Because of the maximum of charge and discharge current of the cells?
No the cells can handle up to 280A. I just don't need more than 120A.
@@freelyroaming There are a lot of information you gave. By the way, I am building some 48V 320Ah. Should I use a higher ampere balancer or just 10A like yours?
Cool video bro..hi bro can you show me how to hook up BMS and Active balance wires together please..I’m gonna build a 12v 4s lifepo4 batteries…cheers
Hi Dan,.... I have questions on my RV solar installation. I have five, 200w (20.23v) panels and, one portable panel. I am hoping to have the portable also be connected in series with the others to do some double-duty and when my battery box gets built, I am hopeful that the portable panel can also be used when it needs charging????. I have 16, 280 ah (3.2V) batteries, along with a 48v, all-in-one MPPT CC. Someone is telling me that the batteries will only give me 280 ah (TOTAL), because it will be wired for a 48v system. In essence; he's saying that I will not get the 1120 ah (280 x 40 because I'm not using them in a 12V system). He is basically telling be that I will have wasted batteries. This just doesn't resonate well with me; is he correct?
Connecting the portable panel in series with the roof panels will be tricky but certainly possible. Just make sure your system is setup to handle the change in voltage when you connect and disconnect the portable panel. Also this will only help you if the portable panel is the same watt and nominal volt rating as the rest of the panels. Otherwise you can potentially reduce your overall output significantly. I don't have a video on this topic yet but here is one from ExploristLife you can refer to.
ruclips.net/video/jejro4zkl8I/видео.html
I am interested in building a 12 volt marine battery to be used on a trolling motor. The ones that are typically used for my application are 60 AH. I plan to use two in series to run a 24 volt motor. Are these smaller AH components available? Are there cases available?
Did you buy your bus bar connectors separately, or did they come with the batteries? If separately, where did you buy them from?
Came with the cells.
I'm not using mine for a main battery supply keeping it separate for other low draw power items , I'm thinking balanced cells are low on the list for what we are using it for I'm talking watts draw not amps at a time I will add a bms, your thoughts. ?
Hi my Friend,
may I ask , if u had the chance to order whatever parts u wished for ( because u couldnt buy any part u wanted or ship it to croatia ) what would those parts be ?
thank you in advance
Researching this for an audio install. Couldnt most of those extra components be part of a higher end BMS, like temp monitoring and cut off, logging and cell monitoring, reducing cost and complexity?
The cost of the bms will increase and it won't work quiet the same but yes you can definitely look at some alternatives.
I noticed that the BMS is available with different amp ratings bit also from 4S to 24S. What is the difference?
Hi
Really learning a lot from your videos.
I am really struggling finding the BMS you are using as there are a myriad of options. Could you post a link?
Thanks
He is using a daly bms u can find one on Amazon it's not the best but it does the job
your link for the active cell balancer doesnt link to a specific one, can you share the link of the one you have ?
Just wondering I have the same setup with daly 150A BMS but for some reason my SOC shows 0 percent. Thr cell has only .01V difference and all other voltage test fine. Ohms is 117 Ohms. Temperature sensor works fine. Any chance you might know what went wrong?
Should have used victron BMS and Ballencer
I like their chargers and shunts but not too impressed with their BMS.
Can I use the Renogy Rover MPPTs for skkar charging a 280 Ah prismatic battery instead of the Victron as you did?
As long as it's a newer model designed for lifepo4
@@freelyroaming Thank you.
What foam are you using between batteries?
Nice work 👍🏻 just a question why you didn’t use the temperature sensor (for BMV 712) with the smart shunt instead of the smart battery sense ?
Thanks! Yes the main reason is because I already own the Battery Sense to use with my 2 Victron SmartSolar charge controllers. The second reason is because I was not originally planning to use the SmartShunt. The battery sense as a standalone product was more versatile in that way. And the third reason, haha yeah I have too many reasons, is because it was not available to ship to my address here in Croatia for some unknown reason even though the battery sense was. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ And now I still have the option to monitor the voltage of a second battery if I chose to.
@@freelyroaming Hi Im new to your channel ,really like your content, can you please make a video of how to make for example wire lugs from copper wire for 4awg wire tks
No problem! I will make a short video soon to show that.
do you have a link for the busbars? Mine didn't come with the batteries. Think I got from the same manufacturing as you.
I ended up making my own using pure copper pipes.
@Freely Roaming Thanks for the information, so do separate port BMS have four cables coming out of them? Are there advantages for having separate ports? My inverter/charger can charger as high as 70amps, but I will be pulling a load off the inverter just under 200amps. I was thinking of going at a 250amp or 300amp Daly BMS, any suggestions?
Separate port will have an extra wire than common port. Besides the voltage wires, there will be 3 instead of 2 on a common port. The advantage of separate port is isolating the charge current so when the BMS senses low voltage shutdown, it will still allow incoming charging current without a need to reset the system. The main down side is separate port usually have significantly less charging capacity. Usually at half or less than the discharging limit.
Love youre videos but how do you calculate the size of your bms? Greetings from Holland
Thanks. BMS size is just based on how much you max current draw will be from your system.
Have you tested the low temp disconnect on that Daly BMS? Will Prowse has been testing them in his videos and concluded that they do not work. Would hate for your batteries to get junked.
Daly does not have low temp disconnect nor do they market it as having that feature. I am using a separate temp sensor that communicates with my chargers to stop charging when the temp is below a predetermined level. You can watch part 4 of this series to see how that works.
How to know which MBS to buy?
What are the difference between the different bms systems? How to know which to buy?
It depends on the battery type, configuration of cells and output limit. For example, my configuration has 4 cells in parallel, the battery type is LiFePO4 and my max discharge is 120A. So I chose a 4S LiFePO4 120A BMS. Lastly, common port and separate port means whether you will charge from the same negative port or have one for each charging and discharging. Choose common port unless you know why you need a separate port bms.
@@freelyroaming Thanks for the information, so do separate port BMS have four cables coming out of them? Are there advantages for having separate ports? My inverter/charger can charger as high as 70amps, but I will be pulling a load off the inverter just under 200amps. I was thinking of going at a 250amp or 300amp Daly BMS, any suggestions?
Are these batteries good for car audio?.
Honestly, I don't understand why buying such a BMS with no shunt, no temp control, etc. If you add all the $ spent on those multiple devices, the risk they might fail, the need for extra connections, the not so clean look at the end, then you will realize that buying a good BMS is actually cheaper an neater than that one.
There are lots of reasons. BMS units don't have internal shunt resistors. If they measure current internally, they are using hall effects sensors which are less accurate. They also don't integrate well with other devices like solar charge controllers or have as many features as compared to getting a victron shunt that networks with other victron devices in the system. In the long run, people who want to build good systems will end up getting a shunt anyways. Less wires might be what you prefer but better accuracy and more interoperability and flexibility is more important to others. Dedicated devices are always more capable and far more robust and less likely to fail than integrated extra features. You might save a couple bucks now but you'll end up spending more later. Conversely, you have a single point of failure for multiple features if you rely on the BMS for all of it. It's main job is to protect and maintain the cells. It might do all those other jobs but it does them poorly. And lastly, you might have access to options where you are from while people around the world might not. Not every product is available around the world. It's not difficult to see all of these might be reasons why other people choose to use different device than you.
With that equipment, which appliances can I use and for how many hours, thank you?
You'll need to know how many watts your appliances draw and do the math. For example, our fridge draws 30 watts and it is on about 20 minutes per hour. That is 10 watt hours of power every hour. My battery pack has about 3600 watt hours of capacity so it will run my fridge alone with 360 hours.
I must be missing or doing something wrong, but I can’t find your list of components in comments or description
In the description right under the timestamps where it says 'Complete list of Items for this build'.
Are you using a fuse or relying on the BMS feta only ?
DC thermal circuit breaker
Do you really expect to be camping in minus degrees?
Why is that hard to believe?
@@freelyroaming I guess because I live in Florida and most Rv people spend the cold weather in Fla
@@herbbates4713 Well, the world is bigger than Florida. Most RV people around the world in fact do not spend winters there.
@@freelyroaming It's a little hard shipping 40 ft buses across the world but most have hit all the states even Alaska but they don't go in the winter
@@herbbates4713 actually it is not hard at all. It sounds like you have never looked into it. The process of shipping a 40ft bus is the same as shipping my 22 ft van or an industrial excavator. I've done it and know lots other who have also done exactly that. But to your original question, you asked if people expect to camp at minus degrees. Yes people do it regularly and often times on purpose. It's not hard to believe that if you just look a little beyond your personal preferences. I don't know where you are getting your data from but 'most' people have not visited even a majority of the US states. Not even close. You really gotta start thinking and looking at people who are not just like yourself. RVers are not just people of your nationality and demographic.
How did you deduce to use a 2 AWG cable? Is it depended on the load current or input current to the battery?
Yes it is based on the maximum current you will be running thru the cable in either direction. Load current or charge current, whichever is greater. Oversize them if you can just to keep things nice and cool. Running undersized cables will increase resistance, build heat and decrease voltage. None of those are good things to have in your electrical system.
@@freelyroaming Awesome, thanks.
How are these conectors called, that hookup your balance leads.
JST balance connectors
I will never understand why you need a Balancer and a Shunt if you have such a BMS which should do this things already.
The BMS does not do active balancing. Only passive. Meaning it's less efficient and slower. It also doesn't have a shunt. If it measures current, it does it using a hall effects sensor. It's less accurate and more importantly, it does not integrate with other devices in your system as a Victron shunt can. If you are just trying to build a basic battery for basic use, it'll suffice. But for a more robust and fully-featured system, those built in features on the bms do not offer the same benefits. But since you claimed you will never understand, this is probably a waste of time for you to learn.
I have 8 x 3.2v 300Ah LiFePO4 brand new batteries and want to know what Ah's will I end up with when I connect all of these for a 12v power supply battery? I am somewhat confused because running 4 3.2 batteries in series I do ger 12 volts by the Amperage is not 4 x 300 is this correct??
With 8 cells you are going to want to connect them first in parallel to form 4 pairs of 2 cells each. That will double the Ah giving you 4 sets of 600Ah at 3.2v each set. Then when you connect the 4 pairs in series, you will end up with 12.8v pack at 600Ah. It is referred to as a 2P4S pack.
Freely Roaming Thank you for your input and answer, I was close to the answer but needed a second opinion .Thank again
What are the dimensions of the batteries?
Dimensions per cell (l * w * h): 174 * 73 * 207mm or 6.85*2.87*8.15in.
freelyroaming.com/lifepo4-cells/
What is the best way to connect this system to a engine’s alternator with out burning out the alternator?
A dedicated DC-to-DC charger.
Ok thanks for your advice 👍
I really found the way you explained how you setup this system informative.
Great video 👍
Thank you Andy.
@@freelyroaming We covered a 7.5tonne lorry into a full time camper van and lived in it for 4 years travelling around Spain and Morocco great experience.
Sold it and now getting a catamaran ready for the next adventure
Thanks again for your help
Sounds amazing! We are probably a couple years away for a boat ourselves. But it will be a monohull for us when that time comes.
Subscribed today.Nice channel.Please more precise link for the batteries I live in Macedonia and also have problem with buying stuff.Also beginner who will need help.ty
This is where I bought mine but it's not the cheapest price on AliExpress. But if you are willing to pay a bit more for confirmed quality and delivery, here you go.
www.aliexpress.com/item/4000947956694.html
What would be the best way to connect 16 of these cells to have a total of 560AH of battery storage?
16 of these will give you 1,120Ah! You could build them like you would 4 separate 4s packs each with their own BMS or build 1 huge 4P4S pack.
With a max discharge rate of 1C, you could draw a massive continuous 14,334 watts from it if you ever need to. You would need some serious cabling. You could also consider building a 24v or 48v pack instead to take advantage of thinner wires. You've got a lot of options at that size.
@@freelyroaming i must be doing my math wrong. I am ultimately working toward building a system that has enough capacity to run a window AC (550watts) plus my other electrical appliances (add another 250watts) almost continually in summer.
I currently have 4x 210 watt panels - going to my 60A EPEVER MPPT charge controller - charging 3x 138AH green Vallence lithium EV batteries. - But I never got the capacity that i had expected out of them . I do full time off grid RVing in Arizona, so the heat can get brutal. I'm trying to oversize to possibly even run 2 window AC's at the peak of the day.
@@thomasvictor4883 Your charge controller limits your solar panels to around 700W. Your batteries should be good around 400A at 12V, so 5 kWh storage. Looks like your inverter is trash if you can't even get it running. If you want a second AC, you definitely need another charger and at least 2 more pv panels.
@@Psi-Storm I have about 830w of solar, but get about 500 in full sun. My inverter is great with powering stuff but my batteries run out too soon. So I am looking to build a larger battery bank
What was the total cost?
ruclips.net/video/vrIpvu3rOPo/видео.html
🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
Looks like 4 months to get anything here to the usa!!
That is unfortunate. It wasn't this backed up before when I ordered mine. A couple months ago.
@@freelyroaming thanks for the video! I’ll order some anyway because I don’t plan on using my van this winter anyway... lol
Yeah I think this winter is a good one to work on projects...
you should have ordered a seperate port BMS so the solar charger will never loose power and be damaged if the BMS shuts down.
Separately port charge currents are extremely limited. From what I've read, Victron engineers have confirmed that their SmartSolar MPPT controllers will not be damage if the BMS goes into disconnect. In fact that is how their lifepo4 battery is designed and works as well. We shall see over time if they are right.
I heard the charge controller has clamps that prevent damage
do you have an email contact? I have a quick question for you about this system!
These cells are now $600.
O
yes your batteries are cheap but by the time you add all these extra components, it ends up being the same as just buying a 280AH single battery with less hassle. I really could not be bothered adding millions of extra components to my batteries...
Then why do you bother to leave an uneducated comment to a topic you seem to know little about? Let alone bother to watch such videos?
You "Claim" they are 280Ah, but you didn't test them. So are you a liar or did you get scammed?
What is wrong with people like you?
Yes exactly. What I don't understand is he left the same comment on part 1 and part 4 of this series. Is it so hard to see at least what the video titles of part 2 and 3 are before belligerently commenting?
can i charge my LiFePO4 Battery 280amp straight from my victron charger or do i have to use bms my thanks
could you use the victron bms Victron Victron BMS 12/200 i dont think you can because it does not have cable to balance those battery cells ive bought sams as you waiting for them to turn up many thanks colin
I believe that is design to use with only Victron batteries.