Looking at Larrin's toughness chart, people can crap on 420HC all they want because it's not the new "super" flavor of the year, but I am impressed. This makes sense because the destruction tests on the Buck Nighthawk or 119 is about as impressive as it gets. I was interested in that new Ontario SPL Pack Knife in Magnacut, but at this point I will never get rid of my Buck 650 and 655 Nighthawk's. Stupid of Buck to discontinue them and really stupid of our incompetent military not to issue them as their primary knife back in the day. In addition, 420HC is easy to sharpen in the field and tough and they are also excellent dive knives. But Buck also knows how to heat treat their production blades. Glad I found you all, Ill have to check out your blades. Cheers from Idaho!
As an avid Fly-fisherman, I like stainless steel. Although my other knives are mostly 1095 I have not found a stainless that is as tough. I am really hoping that you will come out with the Mini-Speedgoat in magnacut steel. I think that would be my perfect fly-fishing knife.
I just bought one of these knives. I'm looking forward to giving it a whirl. One thing, in the last video he said the guy had a masters, in this video he mentioned a PhD.
AEB-L is a very tough stainless steel that has good edge retention and is easy to resharpen and takes a wicked edge because of the fine micro grain structure. I love MagnaCut but it’s expensive. I would love to see MKC produce some of their knives in AEB-L as a lower cost alternative.
AEB-L is awesome. It's tougher and more wear resistant than 52100 AND it's stainless. To me it's the ultimate knife steel for "normal" people. There are better steels for very specific use cases or if you want to spend a ton of money and have the expensive equipment to properly sharpen something like Magnacut. But for like 95% of people, AEB-L or 14C28N woulb probably be what they want.
👉 Great video, but I have to correct you on one issue. There are elemental metals that produce micro-thin oxide layers that actually serve as a layer of protection from further oxidation/corrosion(ie. chromium, nickel, tin, zinc, aluminum). But iron is _not_ one of them. When the iron in steel oxidizes(rusts), it does _not_ form a protective layer. Iron oxide(rust) is flaky, and it eventually separates from the clean iron underneath, allowing oxygen & moisture to penetrate and further oxidize the iron within. Its why you find old, non-stainless iron or steel items left in fields or ditches(or wherever), which have rusted right through to their cores. Its the addition of 12+ % of chromium to iron/steel that gives it "stainlessness". Its because when chromium oxidizes, it's oxide layer isn't flaky, and it does form a protective barrier preventing further oxidation. When you add enough chromium to an iron/steel tool, the 12+% of chromium within will impart its protective oxide layer to that steel. I only know this because I bought an element collection almost 20 years ago, which was put in a non-climate controlled storage unit for over 10 years. But the chunks of pure chromium, tin, zinc, nickel, niobium, etc are still just as shiny as the day they left their refineries, whereas my iron sample looks increasingly "dingier".
There are two different forms of iron oxide. This is why some people recommend doing a forced patina on carbon steel knives, because that form of iron oxide is semi protective and less "flaky". You still have to oil it and be mindful, but not as much as you would have to if there wasn't a planned, deliberate patina put on.
Just ordered a BR fin and bone in Magna Cut. This will be mostly for use in the kitchen as I did not have a dedicated boning knife. I have not had much trouble with tool steels as far as rust goes and I think I could have done with A2 if it came in that.
Nice! We don’t currently have a boning knife, although a lot of folks use our Flathead Filet as one www.montanaknifecompany.com/collections/flathead-fillet-1
I think if you take care of your knife, a non stainless tool steel can be fine for a boning knife. But for a kitchen knife, where you have tons of acidic foods, stainless is key. Corrosion destroys your edge.
Calling these grades "knife steel" does detach you from some of the usual tool and die industry standards. We had to learn that the hard way. I'm glad others are having success with Magnacut. Our stress relieving peening process has exposed a LOT of defects within the material we've had a chance to work with. We have several videos on this but If you're interested, here are some visual examples and more information: Magnacut Voids & Quality Criticisms ruclips.net/video/ZL0B4Y-_pK8/видео.html
Great video but I don’t think 52100 is tougher than MC. It’s on par with 4V, which is much tougher than 52100. I use both in knifemaking but have not tested MC to failure personally. Just going off Larrin’s data. Have you found a different result from actual testing at the same hardness, around 62 or 63 HRC?
Larrin rates 52100 an 8.5/10 for toughness and a 2/10 for edge retention. Magnacut gets a 7 in toughness and 5.5 for edge retention. So the creator of Magnacut still rates 52100 slightly higher for toughness. Where Magnacut pulls ahead is significantly better wear resistence and edge retention, and of course as a stainless, it scores a 9.5/10 for corrosion resistance vs a .5/10 for the 52100, as a non-stainless high carbon steel.
Hoping that 62 - 63 is the ball park for Rockwell on the Speed Goat I ordered. When M390 was the "Hot steel of the day" 59 HRC killed it for me. Generally speaking chipping has not been an issue with blades I carry. Great Video... your explanation of patina was outstanding.
If you are going to post videos on your knives, please have them in stock. They are all sold out. Pointless. What? Are you trying to be another irritating Rolex?
I'm have no intention of bombing steel types. Certainly many great steels out there. From fish to large game, farm use, being in bush weeks at a time and kayaking. I haven't found anything my 1095 isn't capable of. I need a steel that is field friendly not a Super (hard to sharpen) Steel needing jigs and mechanical equipment.
I agree it is a super steel. Can it be sharpened in the field on a sand stone like 1095 or does it require special tools. Packing ounces of extra matters in some places I go.
@@DonTharp it can be touched up in the field, usually that’s all it needs as it does have great edge retention. It is slightly harder to sharpen than our 52100 carbon steel
@@DonTharp For Magnacut you really need diamond to sharpen it properly. It has a lot of Vanadium Carbides, which are harder than ceramic / natural abrasives. So you will only rip out the small carbides instead of abrading them to a sharp edge.
Stainless steel just isn't tough. AEBL man that stuff is so not tough. what junk. Very insightful. Wait, whats that? AEBL is actually extremely tough? It's a lot tougher than say magnacut until you get into 63+ hrc, which I doubt is relevant to the knives you sell. What really makes magnacut special is that the steel stays tough at high hardness, that's one key thing of many things that makes it such an excellent knife steel.
We believe certain steels have their own strengths and weaknesses, but Magnacut has worked so well for our hunting and culinary knives - but cleavers deserve an ultra tough steel for those striking motions. As you know!!
Eh, it boils down to heat treat. Generally speaking, 52100 is considered tougher than magnacut, by a small margin. Even Larrin ranks 52100 above magnacut when it comes to toughness. 👌
@@rawdog5506Aebl has incredibly fine grain structure for a stainless gets wicked sharp easily, it's fine grain structure and edge retention is on par with 52100 and is incredibly tough and chip resistant. It's a great steel. Doesn't rank as high in wear resistance as magnacut though.
MC has "a little more" wear resistence than 52100? lol what? MC is like 2 or 3 categories above any low alloy steel. 52100 doesn't even anywhere near the abrasion resistence of any basic stainless steel, like say AEBL... which itself is lower than cutlery stainless steels like more and bigger carbides like say VG10 or better yet 154cm. MC is a full category above those steels like 154cm. It's not "a little more." it's a whole shit load more. Like, damn I can't even use a regular whetstone to grind this stuff kinda more. It's a vanadium stainless steel. 3% vanadium and a little niobium to boot. 52100 will lose bite after like a dozen cuts into mild materials. MC will do idk, maybe 10x better in the real world in that regard. It's a massive difference. But it's also a massive difference when it comes to sharpening as well. 52100 will take a scary edge with very minimal effort. Grinds like butter on standard traditional abrasives. MC won't even achieve it's full potential edge keenness without using superabrasives.
YMMV. My 52100 is a solid 3 deer knife. With a Rc of about 60...Def. not 'butter'. My Cruwear is 60.5, and Magnacut is at 61 Rc...none of that is soft. And each one a metallurgical step up from the next....with MC adding a stainless component without technically being stainless. MOST 52100 is mediocre, but when done right is a whole different animal. Where & how it was produced matter as well. Which is why the Marbles knives of the late 90's were so good. The (old) steel was produced using a venturi vacuum over the furnace, which was later stopped due to cost cutting. Then they were PROPERLY heat treated. So it's like 440C getting a bad rap. When the Japanese heat treated it, it was great, when everyone (Chinese/Americans) started making cheap knives with it at low Rc, it was crap. Hence the reputation. Most people have never seen a good 52100 or 440C knife, so they have the same opinion as you do....how the steel formula is produced, then subsequently heat treated & quenched matter tremendously. Not 'crap steel', but lousy producers of inferior products are what determine reputations.
If you're a hunter, or any kind of outdoor nerd and you're using an outdoor, camp type knife hard enough that you break the steel, if there was no defect in the steel, you did something so incredibly stupid that you shouldn't be allowed to go outside anymore, or you're an idiot "survivalist" youtuber who just went out to intentionally break something for some sort of self gratification or attention seeking reason.
I thought Magnacut isn’t a stainless steel because it’s less than 12% chromium. Tho it has some characteristics like stainless, it’s not stainless. Atleast that’s what I learned.
There’s more to corrosion resistance than just the percentage. Basically, while it has a lower percentage of chromium, it has much less chromium carbides meaning the chromium it does have is evenly spread throughout the steel. In a steel with more carbides, each carbide is surrounded by an area of lower percentage chromium because it has been precipitated into that carbide. Those areas of low chromium give rust a place to get started
@@Rickyrock13 While nitrogen helps its more because it has just enough chromium in relation to the amount of carbon. Many other stainless steels have more chromium creating chromium carbides (which suck) while Magnacut is pure vanadium carbide.
Sounds like just another sales gimmick. I thought s35vn was made for knives because everyone wanted easier to sharpen. Before that 154 was a stainless for knives. I personally like 14c28n mostly because it's not expensive. Hard to charge $200+ for 14c28n.
440c/154cm had it's decade in the sun, followed by the s30 series. Now Magnacut has significantly outclassed it and I don't think it's going anywhere for a long time.
THANK YOU for the comparison to 52100 on toughness! Always like that steel and the comparison is helpful!
Looking at Larrin's toughness chart, people can crap on 420HC all they want because it's not the new "super" flavor of the year, but I am impressed. This makes sense because the destruction tests on the Buck Nighthawk or 119 is about as impressive as it gets. I was interested in that new Ontario SPL Pack Knife in Magnacut, but at this point I will never get rid of my Buck 650 and 655 Nighthawk's. Stupid of Buck to discontinue them and really stupid of our incompetent military not to issue them as their primary knife back in the day. In addition, 420HC is easy to sharpen in the field and tough and they are also excellent dive knives. But Buck also knows how to heat treat their production blades. Glad I found you all, Ill have to check out your blades. Cheers from Idaho!
Great little video. For me, the steel is important, but shape is just as important. Has to do the job and feel good in the hand. great knives.
Thanks for the vid! Elmax is the only PM stainless I like, but I’m looking forward to trying this!
As an avid Fly-fisherman, I like stainless steel. Although my other knives are mostly 1095 I have not found a stainless that is as tough. I am really hoping that you will come out with the Mini-Speedgoat in magnacut steel. I think that would be my perfect fly-fishing knife.
Fortunately, magnacut is considerably tougher than 1095. So are a number of other stainless steels. That said, 1095 is still great. 👌
I just bought one of these knives. I'm looking forward to giving it a whirl. One thing, in the last video he said the guy had a masters, in this video he mentioned a PhD.
It appears he misspoke in the first video. Saw a comment saying dude just got his PhD.
Can’t wait to get my triumph xl here in a few hours hopefully I get it before they sell out
AEB-L is a very tough stainless steel that has good edge retention and is easy to resharpen and takes a wicked edge because of the fine micro grain structure. I love MagnaCut but it’s expensive. I would love to see MKC produce some of their knives in AEB-L as a lower cost alternative.
I love AEBL also. Had a custom kitchen knife made out of it, and it's been amazeballs.
AEB-L is awesome. It's tougher and more wear resistant than 52100 AND it's stainless. To me it's the ultimate knife steel for "normal" people. There are better steels for very specific use cases or if you want to spend a ton of money and have the expensive equipment to properly sharpen something like Magnacut. But for like 95% of people, AEB-L or 14C28N woulb probably be what they want.
👉 Great video, but I have to correct you on one issue. There are elemental metals that produce micro-thin oxide layers that actually serve as a layer of protection from further oxidation/corrosion(ie. chromium, nickel, tin, zinc, aluminum). But iron is _not_ one of them. When the iron in steel oxidizes(rusts), it does _not_ form a protective layer.
Iron oxide(rust) is flaky, and it eventually separates from the clean iron underneath, allowing oxygen & moisture to penetrate and further oxidize the iron within. Its why you find old, non-stainless iron or steel items left in fields or ditches(or wherever), which have rusted right through to their cores.
Its the addition of 12+ % of chromium to iron/steel that gives it "stainlessness". Its because when chromium oxidizes, it's oxide layer isn't flaky, and it does form a protective barrier preventing further oxidation. When you add enough chromium to an iron/steel tool, the 12+% of chromium within will impart its protective oxide layer to that steel.
I only know this because I bought an element collection almost 20 years ago, which was put in a non-climate controlled storage unit for over 10 years. But the chunks of pure chromium, tin, zinc, nickel, niobium, etc are still just as shiny as the day they left their refineries, whereas my iron sample looks increasingly "dingier".
There are two different forms of iron oxide. This is why some people recommend doing a forced patina on carbon steel knives, because that form of iron oxide is semi protective and less "flaky". You still have to oil it and be mindful, but not as much as you would have to if there wasn't a planned, deliberate patina put on.
Just ordered a BR fin and bone in Magna Cut. This will be mostly for use in the kitchen as I did not have a dedicated boning knife. I have not had much trouble with tool steels as far as rust goes and I think I could have done with A2 if it came in that.
Nice! We don’t currently have a boning knife, although a lot of folks use our Flathead Filet as one
www.montanaknifecompany.com/collections/flathead-fillet-1
I think if you take care of your knife, a non stainless tool steel can be fine for a boning knife. But for a kitchen knife, where you have tons of acidic foods, stainless is key. Corrosion destroys your edge.
Calling these grades "knife steel" does detach you from some of the usual tool and die industry standards. We had to learn that the hard way. I'm glad others are having success with Magnacut. Our stress relieving peening process has exposed a LOT of defects within the material we've had a chance to work with. We have several videos on this but If you're interested, here are some visual examples and more information: Magnacut Voids & Quality Criticisms
ruclips.net/video/ZL0B4Y-_pK8/видео.html
Great video but I don’t think 52100 is tougher than MC. It’s on par with 4V, which is much tougher than 52100. I use both in knifemaking but have not tested MC to failure personally. Just going off Larrin’s data. Have you found a different result from actual testing at the same hardness, around 62 or 63 HRC?
Does anyone know what HRC MKC runs their Magnacut?
As always, it depends on heat treat. Apples to apples, even Larrin ranks 52100 higher than magnacut. 👌
Larrin rates 52100 an 8.5/10 for toughness and a 2/10 for edge retention. Magnacut gets a 7 in toughness and 5.5 for edge retention. So the creator of Magnacut still rates 52100 slightly higher for toughness. Where Magnacut pulls ahead is significantly better wear resistence and edge retention, and of course as a stainless, it scores a 9.5/10 for corrosion resistance vs a .5/10 for the 52100, as a non-stainless high carbon steel.
@@JoshsWayOfLifeMKC’s MC is 60 HRC
Hoping that 62 - 63 is the ball park for Rockwell on the Speed Goat I ordered. When M390 was the "Hot steel of the day" 59 HRC killed it for me.
Generally speaking chipping has not been an issue with blades I carry. Great Video... your explanation of patina was outstanding.
Does anyone know what HRC MKC runs their Magnacut?
He acts like he's going to tell us something but then skirts the figure. Also sounds like he would rather make blades from 52-100
MKC HRC’s their Magnacut at 60. I sure wish they’d go to 63, as this is where Magnacut shines.
So is the war goat also only 60? Was really hoping at least 63…
@@danimoyni I don't have one.
You can kind of tell the Rockwell based on how the steel sharpens and how it wears.
Will you ever be carried by Blade HQ?
i go to huge deer camps. 40 or 50 of us. none have new steels
If you are going to post videos on your knives, please have them in stock. They are all sold out. Pointless. What? Are you trying to be another irritating Rolex?
wrinkler knives are the best!
I'm have no intention of bombing steel types. Certainly many great steels out there.
From fish to large game, farm use, being in bush weeks at a time and kayaking. I haven't found anything my 1095 isn't capable of.
I need a steel that is field friendly not a Super (hard to sharpen) Steel needing jigs and mechanical equipment.
Our Magnacut and 52100 both retain an edge and sharpen easily 👊
I agree it is a super steel.
Can it be sharpened in the field on a sand stone like 1095 or does it require special tools.
Packing ounces of extra matters in some places I go.
@@DonTharp it can be touched up in the field, usually that’s all it needs as it does have great edge retention. It is slightly harder to sharpen than our 52100 carbon steel
@@DonTharp For Magnacut you really need diamond to sharpen it properly. It has a lot of Vanadium Carbides, which are harder than ceramic / natural abrasives. So you will only rip out the small carbides instead of abrading them to a sharp edge.
Stainless steel just isn't tough. AEBL man that stuff is so not tough. what junk. Very insightful. Wait, whats that? AEBL is actually extremely tough? It's a lot tougher than say magnacut until you get into 63+ hrc, which I doubt is relevant to the knives you sell. What really makes magnacut special is that the steel stays tough at high hardness, that's one key thing of many things that makes it such an excellent knife steel.
We believe certain steels have their own strengths and weaknesses, but Magnacut has worked so well for our hunting and culinary knives - but cleavers deserve an ultra tough steel for those striking motions. As you know!!
PLEASE show the KNIVES .... !
Magna-Cut is tougher then 52100.
Eh, it boils down to heat treat. Generally speaking, 52100 is considered tougher than magnacut, by a small margin. Even Larrin ranks 52100 above magnacut when it comes to toughness. 👌
You want a tough Stainless steel look into AEB-L which is very high on the toughness scale and when heat treated right performs amazing.
@@rawdog5506Aebl has incredibly fine grain structure for a stainless gets wicked sharp easily, it's fine grain structure and edge retention is on par with 52100 and is incredibly tough and chip resistant. It's a great steel. Doesn't rank as high in wear resistance as magnacut though.
MC has "a little more" wear resistence than 52100? lol what? MC is like 2 or 3 categories above any low alloy steel. 52100 doesn't even anywhere near the abrasion resistence of any basic stainless steel, like say AEBL... which itself is lower than cutlery stainless steels like more and bigger carbides like say VG10 or better yet 154cm. MC is a full category above those steels like 154cm. It's not "a little more." it's a whole shit load more. Like, damn I can't even use a regular whetstone to grind this stuff kinda more. It's a vanadium stainless steel. 3% vanadium and a little niobium to boot. 52100 will lose bite after like a dozen cuts into mild materials. MC will do idk, maybe 10x better in the real world in that regard. It's a massive difference. But it's also a massive difference when it comes to sharpening as well. 52100 will take a scary edge with very minimal effort. Grinds like butter on standard traditional abrasives. MC won't even achieve it's full potential edge keenness without using superabrasives.
YMMV. My 52100 is a solid 3 deer knife. With a Rc of about 60...Def. not 'butter'.
My Cruwear is 60.5, and Magnacut is at 61 Rc...none of that is soft.
And each one a metallurgical step up from the next....with MC adding a stainless component without technically being stainless.
MOST 52100 is mediocre, but when done right is a whole different animal. Where & how it was produced matter as well. Which is why the Marbles knives of the late 90's were so good. The (old) steel was produced using a venturi vacuum over the furnace, which was later stopped due to cost cutting. Then they were PROPERLY heat treated. So it's like 440C getting a bad rap. When the Japanese heat treated it, it was great, when everyone (Chinese/Americans) started making cheap knives with it at low Rc, it was crap. Hence the reputation. Most people have never seen a good 52100 or 440C knife, so they have the same opinion as you do....how the steel formula is produced, then subsequently heat treated & quenched matter tremendously. Not 'crap steel', but lousy producers of inferior products are what determine reputations.
If you're a hunter, or any kind of outdoor nerd and you're using an outdoor, camp type knife hard enough that you break the steel, if there was no defect in the steel, you did something so incredibly stupid that you shouldn't be allowed to go outside anymore, or you're an idiot "survivalist" youtuber who just went out to intentionally break something for some sort of self gratification or attention seeking reason.
I thought Magnacut isn’t a stainless steel because it’s less than 12% chromium. Tho it has some characteristics like stainless, it’s not stainless. Atleast that’s what I learned.
There’s more to corrosion resistance than just the percentage. Basically, while it has a lower percentage of chromium, it has much less chromium carbides meaning the chromium it does have is evenly spread throughout the steel. In a steel with more carbides, each carbide is surrounded by an area of lower percentage chromium because it has been precipitated into that carbide. Those areas of low chromium give rust a place to get started
In salt water testing it performed at the same level as Vanex in a 72 hour salt water test. No visible corrosion.
It’s insanely stainless, up to par with lc200n, it’s to do with the nitrogen in it
@@Rickyrock13 While nitrogen helps its more because it has just enough chromium in relation to the amount of carbon. Many other stainless steels have more chromium creating chromium carbides (which suck) while Magnacut is pure vanadium carbide.
It is Not Stein less
Sounds like just another sales gimmick. I thought s35vn was made for knives because everyone wanted easier to sharpen. Before that 154 was a stainless for knives.
I personally like 14c28n mostly because it's not expensive. Hard to charge $200+ for 14c28n.
How is it a sales gimmick. It geanuinely does have an unparalleled mix of properties that make it prettt hard to beat when done right.
Hey, if the heat treatment is 62 or better Magnacut is terrific. I own 3 knives in the steel.
live a little try it out. : )
Hey, if the heat treatment is 62 or better Magnacut is terrific. I own 3 knives in the steel.
live a little try it out. : )
Does anyone know what HRC MKC runs their Magnacut?
440c/154cm had it's decade in the sun, followed by the s30 series. Now Magnacut has significantly outclassed it and I don't think it's going anywhere for a long time.