I must admit I really respect your sacrifice to find the truth. It's not easy to do the stuff your doing. Well let's say it's not easy to go against the narrative. People like to defend their illusions. You know years ago Puma made a lockback that came Rockwell tested. That was more then 30 years ago. Shame they don't have those standards nowadays. Many don't understand how big a difference two points can be. Some can vary 56-60 that's a huge difference in performance.
It was was absolutely worth it. Most useful Magnacut related video out there, with real actual production knives, those we can get in real life. It is very very disappointing ! Especially for spyderco, I believed they did it at 64. Maybe it was the mule and they changed it for the salt series ? It is a shame really. I don't want a knife in Magnacut anymore and I will stick to my Native 5 LC200n for my very rare saltwater activity.
I've been experimenting with a similar Leeb hardness tester. I think it's a worthwhile tester, although I need to send some blades out for testing on a calibrated, professional Rockwell tester to get a real read on accuracy. As I'm sure you know, the Leeb testers aren't really intended for this sort of thing. They're intended to be used on thicker/heavier materials, particularly with the Type D impact device you're using. Specifically, they're spec'd to be used on materials weighing at least 5 kg and with a minimum thickness of 5mm. The caveat is that they can be used on lighter, thinner materials if "coupled tightly" to a heavier piece of metal, like the calibration block. After some research, it appears that what they mean by "coupled tightly" is adhering the object (blade) to the block with Vaseline or some kind of grease to fill any gaps. I started getting better results when I started using grease between the block and the tang, although it looks like you're getting pretty good results without that addition. It would be interesting to see if your results come up a little using Vaseline or grease. Final note: even under ideal circumstances, these devices are rated to be accurate to +/- 0.5 hrc. I'm hesitant to publish bad results because I dont' entirely trust the Leeb tester for this kind of work. A low score can be the result of a lack of flatness rather than a lack of hardness. This is why I want confirmation from a traditional hrc tester. I've tested four Magnacut blades so far. As in your testing, Hogue (RSK in my case) did very well at 63.4, with the best being an American Blade Works Model 2, at 64 hrc on the money.
Thanks for the great comment! FYI: I consulted with a lab that uses this exact unit on US Navy ships and USMC vehicles to test mounted components that cannot be brought to an industrial tester. It’s definitely capricious but with some practice, I am getting consistent results. Industrial testers are calibrated within .25 HRC and zero shift of .25 is also allowed. So I’m content wit my accuracy. I do agree with your point about flatness, actually convexity and concavity are more frequent deviations, and that’s why I strike the blade in several places - to find the flattest surface. I then film the test for the video in that area. I also refused to recommend the tester to some of the viewers that asked me about it- it takes a no BS professional to run it and the blade ends up being puck-marked by up to 25-30 dimples. I would not recommend using lubricants around the probe for fear of contaminating the cartridge.
My fear is that cantilevering the blade even in the slightest manner provides a cushioning effect. I agree that grease runs the risk of doing the same. I wonder if a jig that has two small screw clamps could remove the variability and truly sync it to the test block. A huge thanks to the work you are doing!
@@CuttingBoardRx The lubricant actually goes between the test block and the tang of the blade, so the probe doesn't come in contact with it. It's used to form a tighter connection between the blade and the block.
@@BladeLabMiami clearly you don’t know how messy I can be! My nick name in the machine shop was butter fingers. Also “the edge finder” can you guess why?
I'm guilty of spreading rumors of soft Italian heat treats. It was based on information from years back and I'm very happy things have changed. Definitely looking at some of the Viper and Lionsteel models more seriously now as I love their designs. Thanks for the video.
I can’t tell you how important I think this content is. You are fair and as scientific as possible with your equipment. This can only benefit the end user. Kudos on showcasing actual numbers. Hey Kershaw, pay attention!
Turns out American made production knives had a soft heat treat. So much for made in the USA. Now I'm glad that i ordered the Lionsteel M4 in Magnacut instead of the Manix 2 Salt.
I tend to avoid "do it all products" or "all in one products." Magna cut is trying to be a combo TV, CD, and DVD player all in one. Jack of all, master of none. So many better steels. Sheeple love to ride the bandwagon because it's so trendy. In my opinion a couple drops of oil goes a long way, so I tend to like edge retention and toughness over any corrosion resistance. Pick two qualities and work around the 3rd of your choice. If you love to sharpen knives then pick something with corrosion resistance and toughness. Elementary dear Watson! Thank your for calling this out! Hopefully this will raise some brows. GREAT CHANNEL!!
You know how the full saying goes, right? Jack of all trades master of none, though oftentimes better than master of one. You want great edge retention - MagnaCut is not your steel, but if you’re looking for a very well balanced steel - MagnaCut is it. Good thing is that we have a lot of options nowadays.
@dertodesking8379 My transparent knives demko ad20.5 reblades @65 and 65.1 rc, respectively, have absolutely phenomenal edge retention. It is also still tougher and more stainless than the vast majority of other steels. On top of that they are absolute laser beams as the edges are very thin. I love high rc magnacut. It truly is a great steel. I consider anything above 63 to be worthwhile. You are correct, though. Magnacut is a fantastic all-around steel.
@@CuttingBoardRxthe interesting thing is that they state now on their website that they harden the bel air to 62-64 hrc. I don’t know if they changed their goal since you bought yours or if they are totally off their goal and ship blades that are way softer than what they aim for and claim.
@@Superbus753 They changed the hrc they aimed for. When bel air first came out, if I'm not misremembering, it was a 60-62 aim. As stated in the video, the bel air tested was an early run, so it's likely that they had an even poorer heat treat at that time, which would explain why it came in just under 60. I'm not 100% sure how effective these specific testers are, since I've heard conflicting info in the past, but I'm going to give it the benefit of doubt and assume it's accurate. I'd love to see a current run bel air tested to see if they actually dialed their heat treat in. edit: minor typo
I was looking at work sharp pro videos and found your channel, just want to congratulate you for your effort and quality, keep the good job. In the past I was researching for a HRC tester to double check the manufacturer specs with independent and the Leeb testers were described as non-reliable for knives, due to minimal mass and thickness requirements, it is really good to see them in practice doubt anyone cares about only ±0.3 HRC deviation. Maybe you can make a separate more in-depth video for the tester.
once again great video!!!! I will for sure be asking for HRC on every retailer video I watch if it's not stated! and I'm going to be purchasing a hogue mysto soon now!
Dude. Thank you. Really really good stuff and great information. It’s too easy to be given information and then corroborate it and not have it authoritatively challenged or criticized/qualified. I DO remember S30V catching a bad rap. And I still shake my head at that every single time I try to freehand sharpen it lol.
Yeah I don't even believe what is put out by the manufacturers or big box knife dealers anymore. I either test it myself or obtain the information from channels such as this one. I have a buddy that owns a fabrication shop and he has a big press style looking hardness guage. There's actually a guy from the vendor that comes twice a year and calibrates the thing, pretty cool. With that said I have taken the opportunity to test HRC on a few blades. To provide a comparison, one of the blades I tested was a Ritter/Hogue RSK in Magnacut, and its 3 test average was 62, just like your Deka. Im now convinced that Hogue is running a very precise and repeatable heat treat on their Magnacut. It just so happens that Hogue is one of the few companies that seems to actually be at advertised hardness, as they list almost all of their Magnacut at 61-63 HRC. As a side note, I will agree that S30V is a much better blade steel than people think. Truth be told it's still one of my favorite edc steels. Its not the best at anything but it's good at all of them, corrosion resistance, toughness, and edge retention. I actually tested a Spyderco Smock in S30V one time and Spyderco had the hardness at almost 62hrc, and I immediately understood why that knife seemed to perform so we'll.
I really want to see you test corrosion and hardness in all components of the knife for spyderco PM2 salt in magnacut. I also really really want you to test corrosion for quiet carry knives since they are claimed to be completely rust proof and also use rust proof hardware (one of the first companies to do that). Awesome videos!
It’s amazing how things have progressed. I took a break from knife collecting for what turned into the better part of a decade and when I got back, s35vn was considered mid tier. I collected striders specifically because of Micks work with Paul Bos on heat treat. If you know he revolutionized heat treat and actually sold his business to Buck. still have a few older bg42, pd1 and ats-34 blades from the early 2000’s. I’m considering unsubscribing from all other channels and just keeping yours. It’s the only channel actual giving is the important data not just how knife looks and feels.
@@floridaman727 hahaha 😂 don’t unsubscribe from other channels, just leave comments about my content on their feeds. After a while they will mute you themselves! But so what? if we convince even 10-15 youngsters to think critically, we’ve done our job!
I took a look at your channel, great that you’re doing some rough tests! I have a tip: shorts get you more views but they don’t help you get to monetizing your channel. You need 500 subs and 3000 public view hours of the long form videos. I had to do 1000 and 4000 they must’ve made it easier because folks were giving up, getting those 4000 hours took forever!
Thank you very much. This is a very good test. Interesting that you tested the bel air below 60 hrc as kershaw says on their page that they harden it to 62-64 hrc
I think my example is flawed: the blade bent during the tree stab test, rather than snapping. This indicates a wider than typical plastic deformation zone - poor anneal is likely.
I think they made exactly the same as Hogue. They changed the hardness. Kershaw Belair was listed 60-62 HRC at the release (1st batches). Hogue Deka was also softer before and after they changed the HRC to 62-64.
optimize HRC for corrosion resistance on a crossbar lock knife like Deka or Bel air is usless... scales and hardware are failing before the blade as we can see from your tests. It makes more sence to optimize edge retention . Many thanks for your work on this channel.
@@armandkokotajlo2085 and to your point, i tested the more complex locks in the salt mist chamber. You are absolutely correct. I see no point in making a part of the system optimal for corrosion resistance while throwing in a mix of galvanically dissimilar metals.
Awesome keep it up! Im curious about the Spyderco Paramilitary 2 salt, I find its edge retention excellent so I would assume it had an HRC of 62 or above
Some of the numbers were disappointing to me but when spyderco does something there is usually a reason and I am uneducated on the subject so I believe them 😂
Would you be also surprised if I told you that I have M. Strider with S20V blade testing sub 57 HRC? That’s the same steel as M390, ideal hardness for them is 61. We need to stop talking in generalities and stick to the cold hard facts!
@@CuttingBoardRx hardness alone cannot tell you performance. You can arrive at a specific hardness number multiple ways and achieve drastically different edges retention performance.
HRC does matter don’t get me wrong, but people really are over hyping the value of this. The difference in 1-2 rc on most steels is negligible for everyday use. Larrin actually has a detailed video on this you guys should check it out. More important in my opinion is edge geometry. If you actually invest in learning how to do this you could make a subpar steel out perform a premium steel in edge retention testing. This being said hrc is still very important and I am glad there is finally someone out there holding companies accountable. Good work man!
The way knife infomercial-style salesmen spin Larrin’s statements is ridiculous. Sure, you can make a “sub par” steel perform better by changing the angle, but then, why would I pay for anything other than 420C? We demand all of it for what we pay or let the industry bend us over! Let’s flip it around: I would rather pay for a knife with sub-par edge made out of perfectly heat treated steel than the other way around. I can sharpen any knife better than it comes from a production factory, but I can’t easily re-heat treat a blade.
@@CuttingBoardRx this is so true! HRC really is so important but the “edc” community has bridged over into actual knife and steel enthusiasts and it’s exhausting reading comments under these videos.
Possible Idea- There are Leatherman replacement knife blades on AliExpress made from M390. I wonder how these compare to other M390 blades made in the USA. Is one of these worth buying ($69.00) to replace a 420hc main blade on the Wave+?
@@Sgreubel The advantage of powder steel M390 over ingot 420C is better edge retention and corrosion resistance. But a properly maintained 420C is a decent performer for a beater tool. The way Leathermans are constructed, the corrosion is more likely to occur on the file, inside the handles, or on the pliers. I don’t think this is a good swap bc for $69 one can find a whole decent knife. Mini Iridium is first that comes to mind. If you’re tough on tools, I swear by cold steel Finn Wolf or Karve (indestructible).
I can tell you, CRK MagnaCut heat treat is disappointing. Below 62. Still love the brand, but I specifically sought out couple of S45VN knives before they completely disappeared. That was their forte.
I've heard some rumblings about the Ritter Hogues having super low hardness on their magnacut blades. I believe they quote 61-63HRC but multiple sources now tested hardness and were getting anywhere from 56-58HRC. I wish they would have just stuck with m390 & 20cv. I've beat the hell out of both my mini & full size Ritters in 20cv and have yet to have any chipping and they stay super sharp for a very long time.... I have two magnacut Ritters that have become safe queens until I can get them tested.
Why don’t they heat the magnacut to 62-63 HRC? It’s known that magnacut is at is best at 62-63 HRC right? Can you explain it please. I have a Tactile Chupacabra that is 62-63 HRC but I didn’t know that the manix 2 salt is around 60 HRC. I own a the manix 2 salt too and I must say it sharpens real easy with water stones.
ONG IM GLAD YOURE TESTING THE VIPER VALE. Ive been having Bad Viper Customer Service. its been 3 months since i requested a SINGLE PIVOT SCREW REPLACEMENT
@@Messercheck There are several on the market. I choose not to promote any specific one. You have to make sure that it covers the HRC scale and includes the calibration block. Once you get one, I could walk you through the setup. I noticed you are not a subscriber on my channel. What can I do to earn your subscription?
Excellent job as always man. I appreciate the attention to detail you put in your vids. I have a magnacut Ad20s clip point coming in soon, would you want to do an hrc test on it? I'm local in Arlington/Alexandria
Thanks for the good work. I had a feeling spyderco kept the HRC low for the salt series. I’m okay with it for those particular knives. The bel air should’ve been at least 62+ tho
There are rumors that they did on the latest knives. I don’t like the overall design, just an opinion of a crusty old guy, but there’s way too many parts!
Concerning your HRC tester, I am no expert, at all, but I once investigated it out of curiosity, in search for a cheaper alternative to regulars testers. I recall reading something about it needing a relatively large piece of steel to test acurately, and I must say that I'm surprised it works well on pocket knives, only maintained by the pressure of your fingers. The event that hyped MC a lot was when Cedric and Ada tested this dual grit mule that did so well. Had he cut 500 bits of the rope, the story would have been different. Dr Thomas rated MC at 7 for toughness and 5.5 for abrasion resistance. Nothing incredible, but where it excels is that it can be hardened to the level of a similarly carbide rich tool steel, because the chromium is kept in solution. Around 60 I think it misses the point.
I’m fairly confident in the tester as we use this exact model to test components on USMC armored vehicles. As long as the tested item is flat where it contacts the 2kg block of steel, I’m pretty confident it’s giving better results than a single strike on an industrial tester.
@@CuttingBoardRx Yes, it seems quite accurate as I am seeing on your channel. It is good news for the knife world because these thing are not that expansive and maybe others will start to do it too. Yes, manufacturers ought to disclose hrc range within a 2 points margin and really warranty it ! Right now, I'd like to test some 4V., Kizer has good prices on it but I fear it will be low.
I enjoy your videos very much and certainly appreciate what you do (especially at your own expense). However, I would like to see you do other videos of just your favorites, grails (mentioned below), and the like. Thank you.
@@mel87123 No, his favorites of what he already has. If they include grails, great. If not, I'm asking what his grails are, not for him to purchase them.
I have a slightly different idea of what a grail knife is. For example a custom Marfione is of no interest to me because it is not made by a single master, it’s not unique, it has no historical significance and it comes with a bunch of gimmicky junk that is just landfill garbage. Can’t get myself to like Shirogorov as it’s just a slightly better than average quality production knife. Boker Tiger with Chad Nichols Damascus blade made out of WWII tank armor is more my speed. Or a South African flipper entirely made by one man who makes less than 100 knives a year. Or a 16 year old Benchmade like new in box time capsule… who wants to see that?
Thanks for commenting! Like any other tool, this one requires practice and patience. I am constantly improving my skills with this tool and this will be evident to you if you watch couple of my latest videos. On the flip side, this video is for entertainment purposes only and should not be construed as anything other than that!
Pretty disappointing from Spyderco, in my opinion. Not sure why this steel was even put under Salt series if it required low HRC to get the optimal corrosion resistance; we have steels they aren't using like Vanax that don't need to have as much compromise to get their corrosion resistance. How much better is it even than LC200N when you aren't even hitting 60 HRC? Feels like a waste to me, and especially questionable when Spyderco refuses to publish their HRC targets. They know if they published this number they'd get railed for it like Hogue did.
MagnaCut is NOT better than LC200N or M390/S20V I’ve been trying to inform the public about this for 2 years and that is an impossible task at least for as long as I have less than 50K subscribers! And here’s your chance to help: subscribe now!
23 дня назад
According to Larry it is easy to make steel hard but if the heat treatment protocols aren’t followed the steel won’t have its intended balance.
Dr. Larrin Thomas, I suppose you’re referring to? This is NOT what he’s saying, and he’s not saying it in a manner that may be clear to most folks out there is not a dot on the graph. The balance point is not ideal for all 3 properties, it’s just where they all congregating at around 85-90% of the full potential.
23 дня назад
@@CuttingBoardRx he has definitely said that some knife manufacturers don’t follow correct procedures for heat treating and therefore don’t get the best from the steel but still like to put a high price on their product because it is labelled magnacut.
Oh, I’m familiar with his videos, articles, the books and even social media posts. But not like he’s going to come out and say: we created a steel that nobody needs but everyone wants. He does work for a very competitive company- Crucible Industries. Friend! If you don’t do some independent thinking and question any and all authority, just stay with the industry, plenty of channels that peddle that kind of “truth”
There's a couple people testing hrc with different equipments now. Guys, if you wanna make abuying decision based on hrc, make sure you follow the scientific method and compare the results for a particular knife from different people before you assign a number.
Yes, Magnacut under 60 - it is nothing. By the way, there is Fox Original Gangster, where Fox promises in specs 62-64 hrc on Magnacut. It would be interesting to check it, according to other Italian knives result - it can be real
I think that’s why he specified “early production” on the bel air. Apparently, when Kershaw first released the bel air, the blades weren’t heat treated properly, so the blades were soft and the tip could be bent (per one of his earlier videos). Back then, the heat treated was listed as 58-60 (I think), now Kershaw lists the HRC at 62-64.
@@CuttingBoardRx is it legal to own automaic knives in your area? kershaw's recent launch 7 in cf and mc is a perfect candidate for testing if kai's claimed hardness worth anything.
Call them out, we will know who are true to what they say, this will call out the ones that arnt true and I bet this is wear alot of the companys have the 2nd in command come to the boss and say boss we got a problem, did u see this new video uploaded on RUclips, we are fkd what can we say to get out of this, here we all will help you company's out here, JUST ROCKWELL UR BLADES AT THE CORRECT HARDNESS And DON'T LIE ABOUT IT. (EVERRRRR)
I think you might want to recalibrate.... I have seen most of these knives tested multiple times on a actual rockwell testers and most of them were higher. And I mean multiples of the same knife tested independently in different nations showing way different results then yours. All results were relatively close, except yours!
Send links. And I should call BS on your statement: 710, Manix Salt, Adira, PT Strider, and BelAir in MagnaCut are brand new for 2024. Nano and Vale are Italian made knives and almost nobody tests these. Somehow, you claim, somebody out there bought these knives in the last 3 weeks to 4 months and tested them in front of you, “multiple times” without so much as a short video?
About dealers listing HRC, you can look up the same knife at four different vendors and get four different ranges listed, at that point it's no longer worth a damn, I rather get information like that from channels such as yours.
That’s why you go to the source But even then, you only get a range Though personally, I Think that if you buy a knife that costs over 200$ for Chinese knives, and over 300$ for American knives, the manufacturer should test the blades before shipping, and have it written on a note in the packaging
@@bornonthebattlefront4883 Ye, and the manufacturer range is also somewhat hit or miss, depending on how often they actually test their batches after the initial run.
I knew Spyderco's CPM-S30V and CPM-CRUWEAR were awesome Steels! These are the Steels that I have in my Manix 2XL and Military 2 Folders that I absolutely luv. I knew those were good Steels! Thank you for proving this to me! Great Video! Keep up the good Work you're doing! :-) Peace, Stiletto :-)
MC run hard does not make a better blade steel. Application is everything. When you run the hardness of MC up from 60.5 Rc to 65 Rc, you cut the toughness from 17 ft-lbs to 10 ft-lbs. And at 65 Rc, MC has about the edge wear of S30V at 60 Rc (about 570 TCC). TCC measures only abrasion resistance. When you drop toughness, you get more microchipping in normal use, so edge wear goes down faster. Vanax, which is a wonderful, fine-grained, almost perfectly stainless steel, has better edge wear then MC, at 60 Rc, but MC is much tougher -- 17 vs 11 ft-lbs. That toughness is what makes MC magic. When you run MC up to its top range of hardness, it loses its toughness advantage over Vanax. And all you get in return is a small gain in abrasion resistance for a huge loss in toughness. If you're cutting jelly rolls and don't need toughness, fine, run MC as hard as you want. But in normal use, it's MC's high toughness at 60 Rc or so that makes the steel shine as a user..
In addition to advertised HRC, I’d love a standardized behind edge thickness measurement listed. Since geometry is so critical, but we don’t know how to expect cutting performance until we get it in hand.
It's a shame that the Manufacturers are doing an injustice to MagnaCut by not hardening it to its optimum hardness. I could care less about corrosion resistance, I take care of my knives. I do,however, care about edge retention. Thank You so much for thus Video! Outstanding Job, and excellent content!!
Its kinda selling us only steel name not performances. Happened to me with bento box para 2 i k390. I was curious and sent my knife to a local knifemaker. I was disappointed because i saw on some forums that was hardened to 64, mine was tested in 2 different places on blade and turned out 62.5hrc
@user-zx5yd4cf3y My friend (from Bulgaria?) do not be disappointed in your knife! K390 ideal hardness for edge retention vs. toughness is 62.8 and BTW the tester that your machine shop used is likely to have +/- 0.25 error. If they took it all the way up to 64, the result would be 40% reduction in toughness with only 5% increase in edge retention! Is it a good trade? Hopefully you kept the knife? Since Roman times, Forums are literally places for people to come to be heard, no matter how stupid they sound!
@@CuttingBoardRx The thing is that i saw on knifeforums Big Brown Bear posted his testings of k390 para2 and shown 63-64.5hrc. To be honest that attracted me so i activated my family from Florida to order knife and send me here because bento box doesnt ship to my country (im from Serbia). Sorry for broken English
@user-zx5yd4cf3y your English is perfectly fine! I’m Ukrainian btw. Do you sharpen your knives yourself? If yes, just reduce the angle by 1-2 degrees and it will eliminate any concerns about edge retention reduction!
@@CuttingBoardRx Yes bro i sharp all my knives by myself with very limited equipment (dmt coarse/fine/extra fine and strop with gunny juice 1 micron). I know resin bonded dimonds are better but they are too expsnive for me. Slava Ukraini!
@CuttingBoardRx I wonder what is your thougths about Dr. Larrin Thomas video ruclips.net/video/a5lzf8LA03o/видео.html and his conclusion that if the steel is heat treated properly then the selected hardness is primarily an opinion. Maybe you can even reply to him.
@@vengo999 I watched all his videos, read his articles and the Knife Engineering book. I’m not a metallurgical scientist, but as an engineer, I would research the heat treatment regime options, and select the most appropriate one based on the specific use case of my design. If I was designing a water sports knife, lower hardness seems to produce better corrosion resistance. If I was designing a hiking companion knife, I would choose the more balanced mid range. If edge retention was my primary concern, I would choose a more specialised steel like S90V , 110, 115, Maxamet etc. And for a tactical knife, 3V or CruWear.
My god you do really beat your knives for us thank you love all your video's you have saved me lots of money . Any chance you will do any reviews on Guardian Tactical they use to work for Microtech. I hear their knives are really good.
Microtech is not my favorite brand for now and until they come clean with the MSI fiasco and the clandestine fix they implemented. After that, I’ll love them again. Pardon my silly activism!
I'm just starting the video, but Magnacut is awesome when treated correctly. I have a 65.1 custom demko reblade, and it's amazing. Magnacut at low RC isn't anything special
.5 of hrc can make a huge difference in a blade they are now running there hrc at 63 to 64 on the deka magnacut it is by far a better steel then sv 110 sv35 then the kershaw bel air magnacut rn the deka magnacut is now top dog
Not saying you're wrong, but I do think it's weird (or shocking) that both Spyderco and Kershaw claim 63-64 but they're testing significantly lower. I could see a point either way but potentially 4-5 points is enormous in a hardness scale. I've seen video of Kershaw testing Livewire blades and nailing 63. Spyderco also said they were late to bringing this steel to market because they went back and completely revamped their heat treat to optimize it. Anyway, having taken apart a lot of knives I know this video took a lot of work so great job.
The salt series from Spyderco is kept slightly lower in HRC to aid in corrosion resistance. Magnacut does better with corrosion a couple marks down on HRC
В очередной раз, спасибо за интересное и информативное видео! Ваш канал это, пожалуй, лучшее, что есть на ножевую тему на ютубе на данный момент. Даже интереснее хард юзов от вининула пожалуй)
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Hopefully, the amount of research and tedious calculations, editing and removing coatings from brand new blades was worth your time! Enjoy!!!
Thank you sir, you're fighting for the everyday guys everywhere
I must admit I really respect your sacrifice to find the truth. It's not easy to do the stuff your doing.
Well let's say it's not easy to go against the narrative. People like to defend their illusions.
You know years ago Puma made a lockback that came Rockwell tested.
That was more then 30 years ago. Shame they don't have those standards nowadays.
Many don't understand how big a difference two points can be. Some can vary 56-60 that's a huge difference in performance.
It was was absolutely worth it. Most useful Magnacut related video out there, with real actual production knives, those we can get in real life. It is very very disappointing ! Especially for spyderco, I believed they did it at 64. Maybe it was the mule and they changed it for the salt series ?
It is a shame really. I don't want a knife in Magnacut anymore and I will stick to my Native 5 LC200n for my very rare saltwater activity.
@@richardhenry1969German Puma knives still all have Rockwell hardness dents from testing
@@MB-jg4tr that good to know haven't seen any in years. We used to go to a knife store in the mall. Where I live all the malls closed.
I've been experimenting with a similar Leeb hardness tester. I think it's a worthwhile tester, although I need to send some blades out for testing on a calibrated, professional Rockwell tester to get a real read on accuracy. As I'm sure you know, the Leeb testers aren't really intended for this sort of thing. They're intended to be used on thicker/heavier materials, particularly with the Type D impact device you're using. Specifically, they're spec'd to be used on materials weighing at least 5 kg and with a minimum thickness of 5mm. The caveat is that they can be used on lighter, thinner materials if "coupled tightly" to a heavier piece of metal, like the calibration block.
After some research, it appears that what they mean by "coupled tightly" is adhering the object (blade) to the block with Vaseline or some kind of grease to fill any gaps. I started getting better results when I started using grease between the block and the tang, although it looks like you're getting pretty good results without that addition. It would be interesting to see if your results come up a little using Vaseline or grease. Final note: even under ideal circumstances, these devices are rated to be accurate to +/- 0.5 hrc. I'm hesitant to publish bad results because I dont' entirely trust the Leeb tester for this kind of work. A low score can be the result of a lack of flatness rather than a lack of hardness. This is why I want confirmation from a traditional hrc tester.
I've tested four Magnacut blades so far. As in your testing, Hogue (RSK in my case) did very well at 63.4, with the best being an American Blade Works Model 2, at 64 hrc on the money.
Thanks for the great comment! FYI: I consulted with a lab that uses this exact unit on US Navy ships and USMC vehicles to test mounted components that cannot be brought to an industrial tester. It’s definitely capricious but with some practice, I am getting consistent results.
Industrial testers are calibrated within .25 HRC and zero shift of .25 is also allowed. So I’m content wit my accuracy. I do agree with your point about flatness, actually convexity and concavity are more frequent deviations, and that’s why I strike the blade in several places - to find the flattest surface. I then film the test for the video in that area. I also refused to recommend the tester to some of the viewers that asked me about it- it takes a no BS professional to run it and the blade ends up being puck-marked by up to 25-30 dimples.
I would not recommend using lubricants around the probe for fear of contaminating the cartridge.
My fear is that cantilevering the blade even in the slightest manner provides a cushioning effect.
I agree that grease runs the risk of doing the same.
I wonder if a jig that has two small screw clamps could remove the variability and truly sync it to the test block.
A huge thanks to the work you are doing!
@@CuttingBoardRx The lubricant actually goes between the test block and the tang of the blade, so the probe doesn't come in contact with it. It's used to form a tighter connection between the blade and the block.
@@BladeLabMiami clearly you don’t know how messy I can be! My nick name in the machine shop was butter fingers. Also “the edge finder” can you guess why?
@@CuttingBoardRx 😂
I'm guilty of spreading rumors of soft Italian heat treats. It was based on information from years back and I'm very happy things have changed. Definitely looking at some of the Viper and Lionsteel models more seriously now as I love their designs. Thanks for the video.
They still have the poorest performing m390 around. That has not changed.
Viper Customer Service is nonexistent. Just a warning
I can’t tell you how important I think this content is. You are fair and as scientific as possible with your equipment. This can only benefit the end user. Kudos on showcasing actual numbers. Hey Kershaw, pay attention!
That is exactly why we need this channel to grow the subscription base. Companies won’t even notice us until we’re 30K strong!
Now just imagine how sub-optimal all the other steels these production companies push out.
Correct! And I don’t have to imagine, I can measure and film and then post.
Thank you for your videos. The time and effort you put in is unmatched.
Thanks! Keep spreading the word!
Incredibly impressed with your work. In addition, the way you presented it... 👌
Sincerely appreciate your compliment!
You, sir, are doing the lord's work!
I bet some of the manufacturers would think I’m on the other side…
MagnaCut is a fascinating steel. It and CruWear are really all you need for edc folders anymore.
BEST KNIFE STEEL VIDEO EVER. I dont trust that so many companies suddenly threw in MC so quickly... i knew many were sub optional
Your knowledge is exceptional. How about a video of your top 5 high end grail knives? Would love to see.
Thank you! I could do that! But the Shirogorov fan boys may not like that it’s not one of them…
3:20 BM 710
3:58 Kershaw Belair
4:29 Spyderco Manix 2 Salt
5:05 BM Mini Adira
8:56 Hogue Deka
9:33 Viper Vale
11:23 Pro-Tech Strider
12:21 Lionsteel Nano
13:43 Hogue Mysto
Turns out American made production knives had a soft heat treat. So much for made in the USA. Now I'm glad that i ordered the Lionsteel M4 in Magnacut instead of the Manix 2 Salt.
@just9911 🇺🇸
Why do they run them soft? Easier to treat or less chance they will break?
@@kpfagerberg Both! Plus the third reason: easier to grind post-heat treat.
@@CuttingBoardRxI forgot about that part. Just ordered a manix salt in magnacut. Should perform well for my needs.
@@kpfagerberg Manix is my favorite Spyderco line. It’s my little secret, pls don’t tell anyone 😂
I tend to avoid "do it all products" or "all in one products." Magna cut is trying to be a combo
TV, CD, and DVD player all in one. Jack of all,
master of none. So many better steels.
Sheeple love to ride the bandwagon
because it's so trendy.
In my opinion a couple drops of oil goes a
long way, so I tend to like edge retention and toughness over any corrosion resistance.
Pick two qualities and work around the 3rd
of your choice. If you love to sharpen knives
then pick something with corrosion resistance
and toughness. Elementary dear Watson!
Thank your for calling this out! Hopefully this
will raise some brows. GREAT CHANNEL!!
You know how the full saying goes, right? Jack of all trades master of none, though oftentimes better than master of one. You want great edge retention - MagnaCut is not your steel, but if you’re looking for a very well balanced steel - MagnaCut is it. Good thing is that we have a lot of options nowadays.
@dertodesking8379 My transparent knives demko ad20.5 reblades @65 and 65.1 rc, respectively, have absolutely phenomenal edge retention. It is also still tougher and more stainless than the vast majority of other steels. On top of that they are absolute laser beams as the edges are very thin. I love high rc magnacut. It truly is a great steel. I consider anything above 63 to be worthwhile. You are correct, though. Magnacut is a fantastic all-around steel.
Glad to see an example of Kershaw Magnacut here. I nabbed a Link for like 80 bucks a month ago and was curious how it stood up against others.
Kershaw’s been upping their game! Livewire rocks! BelAir was not a well Balanced system- to many parts, WITH geometry THAT thin, HRC should be higher.
@@CuttingBoardRxthe interesting thing is that they state now on their website that they harden the bel air to 62-64 hrc. I don’t know if they changed their goal since you bought yours or if they are totally off their goal and ship blades that are way softer than what they aim for and claim.
Yea they are all liars...whatever
@@Superbus753 They changed the hrc they aimed for. When bel air first came out, if I'm not misremembering, it was a 60-62 aim. As stated in the video, the bel air tested was an early run, so it's likely that they had an even poorer heat treat at that time, which would explain why it came in just under 60. I'm not 100% sure how effective these specific testers are, since I've heard conflicting info in the past, but I'm going to give it the benefit of doubt and assume it's accurate. I'd love to see a current run bel air tested to see if they actually dialed their heat treat in.
edit: minor typo
I was looking at work sharp pro videos and found your channel, just want to congratulate you for your effort and quality, keep the good job.
In the past I was researching for a HRC tester to double check the manufacturer specs with independent and the Leeb testers were described as non-reliable for knives, due to minimal mass and thickness requirements, it is really good to see them in practice doubt anyone cares about only ±0.3 HRC deviation. Maybe you can make a separate more in-depth video for the tester.
once again great video!!!! I will for sure be asking for HRC on every retailer video I watch if it's not stated! and I'm going to be purchasing a hogue mysto soon now!
I see they are out of them on a couple of retail sites. The tanto’s are still available
Excellent video!!!
The best knife enthusiast channel!!!
Dude. Thank you. Really really good stuff and great information. It’s too easy to be given information and then corroborate it and not have it authoritatively challenged or criticized/qualified.
I DO remember S30V catching a bad rap. And I still shake my head at that every single time I try to freehand sharpen it lol.
Yeah I don't even believe what is put out by the manufacturers or big box knife dealers anymore. I either test it myself or obtain the information from channels such as this one. I have a buddy that owns a fabrication shop and he has a big press style looking hardness guage. There's actually a guy from the vendor that comes twice a year and calibrates the thing, pretty cool. With that said I have taken the opportunity to test HRC on a few blades. To provide a comparison, one of the blades I tested was a Ritter/Hogue RSK in Magnacut, and its 3 test average was 62, just like your Deka. Im now convinced that Hogue is running a very precise and repeatable heat treat on their Magnacut. It just so happens that Hogue is one of the few companies that seems to actually be at advertised hardness, as they list almost all of their Magnacut at 61-63 HRC. As a side note, I will agree that S30V is a much better blade steel than people think. Truth be told it's still one of my favorite edc steels. Its not the best at anything but it's good at all of them, corrosion resistance, toughness, and edge retention. I actually tested a Spyderco Smock in S30V one time and Spyderco had the hardness at almost 62hrc, and I immediately understood why that knife seemed to perform so we'll.
I really want to see you test corrosion and hardness in all components of the knife for spyderco PM2 salt in magnacut. I also really really want you to test corrosion for quiet carry knives since they are claimed to be completely rust proof and also use rust proof hardware (one of the first companies to do that). Awesome videos!
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻Absolutely worth the time! I appreciate this extensive, evidence-based breakdown of a rather poorly understood aspect of steel.
Perfect comment! I would also add the word Deliberately before Poorly 🤣
Great content!
From what I was told Protech worked with Larrin Thomas on getting the heat treat right. It shows
Hopefully that’s why he was visiting Buck - to bring them to an epiphany: 420C is an antique and even S35VN is so 2010!
It’s amazing how things have progressed. I took a break from knife collecting for what turned into the better part of a decade and when I got back, s35vn was considered mid tier. I collected striders specifically because of Micks work with Paul Bos on heat treat. If you know he revolutionized heat treat and actually sold his business to Buck. still have a few older bg42, pd1 and ats-34 blades from the early 2000’s. I’m considering unsubscribing from all other channels and just keeping yours. It’s the only channel actual giving is the important data not just how knife looks and feels.
@@floridaman727 hahaha 😂 don’t unsubscribe from other channels, just leave comments about my content on their feeds. After a while they will mute you themselves! But so what? if we convince even 10-15 youngsters to think critically, we’ve done our job!
@@CuttingBoardRxI’d love to see this test done on Hinderer, Demko, Strider, CRK magnacut and see who is doing it right.
Love your videos brotha my channel is finally growing thank you for all you do for the knife community
I took a look at your channel, great that you’re doing some rough tests! I have a tip: shorts get you more views but they don’t help you get to monetizing your channel. You need 500 subs and 3000 public view hours of the long form videos. I had to do 1000 and 4000 they must’ve made it easier because folks were giving up, getting those 4000 hours took forever!
Thank you very much. This is a very good test. Interesting that you tested the bel air below 60 hrc as kershaw says on their page that they harden it to 62-64 hrc
I think my example is flawed: the blade bent during the tree stab test, rather than snapping. This indicates a wider than typical plastic deformation zone - poor anneal is likely.
I think they made exactly the same as Hogue. They changed the hardness. Kershaw Belair was listed 60-62 HRC at the release (1st batches). Hogue Deka was also softer before and after they changed the HRC to 62-64.
@@armandkokotajlo2085 I can check this theory- I have the very earliest Deka tanto MC blade, will check it out later.
optimize HRC for corrosion resistance on a crossbar lock knife like Deka or Bel air is usless... scales and hardware are failing before the blade as we can see from your tests. It makes more sence to optimize edge retention . Many thanks for your work on this channel.
@@armandkokotajlo2085 and to your point, i tested the more complex locks in the salt mist chamber. You are absolutely correct. I see no point in making a part of the system optimal for corrosion resistance while throwing in a mix of galvanically dissimilar metals.
Great tests! Maybe, you should startup your own sales platform to sell knives that you've tested. Love the vid!
Haha!!! That would be a very small retail outlet: Manix, Griptilian, Livewire, and LUDT would be my entire inventory!
@@CuttingBoardRx They all started somewhere brother.
Awesome work!
Folks that watch this channel are totally worth the effort!
Awesome keep it up! Im curious about the Spyderco Paramilitary 2 salt, I find its edge retention excellent so I would assume it had an HRC of 62 or above
Some of the numbers were disappointing to me but when spyderco does something there is usually a reason and I am uneducated on the subject so I believe them 😂
That's not a smart way to live lol, you "trust the science" I imagine
@@lawrenceragnarok1186 grow up.
You can’t really put your faith into an Amazon HRC tester that’s one tenth the cost of a real one.
Thanks for the detailed video - you are the man!
Glad to help!
Really surprised how well the Lionsteel did. Thank you for all your work.
They still ht other steels poorly as the performance is low
@@tacticalcenter8658 That's why I was so surprised
Would you be also surprised if I told you that I have M. Strider with S20V blade testing sub 57 HRC? That’s the same steel as M390, ideal hardness for them is 61. We need to stop talking in generalities and stick to the cold hard facts!
@@CuttingBoardRx hardness alone cannot tell you performance. You can arrive at a specific hardness number multiple ways and achieve drastically different edges retention performance.
@@tacticalcenter8658 yeah. You still don’t know what Retained Austenite is. 20 seconds, go
HRC does matter don’t get me wrong, but people really are over hyping the value of this. The difference in 1-2 rc on most steels is negligible for everyday use. Larrin actually has a detailed video on this you guys should check it out. More important in my opinion is edge geometry. If you actually invest in learning how to do this you could make a subpar steel out perform a premium steel in edge retention testing. This being said hrc is still very important and I am glad there is finally someone out there holding companies accountable. Good work man!
The way knife infomercial-style salesmen spin Larrin’s statements is ridiculous. Sure, you can make a “sub par” steel perform better by changing the angle, but then, why would I pay for anything other than 420C? We demand all of it for what we pay or let the industry bend us over!
Let’s flip it around: I would rather pay for a knife with sub-par edge made out of perfectly heat treated steel than the other way around. I can sharpen any knife better than it comes from a production factory, but I can’t easily re-heat treat a blade.
@@CuttingBoardRx this is so true! HRC really is so important but the “edc” community has bridged over into actual knife and steel enthusiasts and it’s exhausting reading comments under these videos.
@@christopherr1711 that’s why I’m happy to have critical thinkers like yourself among my subscribers!
Possible Idea- There are Leatherman replacement knife blades on AliExpress made from M390. I wonder how these compare to other M390 blades made in the USA. Is one of these worth buying ($69.00) to replace a 420hc main blade on the Wave+?
@@Sgreubel The advantage of powder steel M390 over ingot 420C is better edge retention and corrosion resistance. But a properly maintained 420C is a decent performer for a beater tool. The way Leathermans are constructed, the corrosion is more likely to occur on the file, inside the handles, or on the pliers. I don’t think this is a good swap bc for $69 one can find a whole decent knife. Mini Iridium is first that comes to mind. If you’re tough on tools, I swear by cold steel Finn Wolf or Karve (indestructible).
Love the hrc testing
thank you so much, great analysis!
This was an amazing video! Thank you!!!
Great video some great information!
Get a lapel microphone you’d sound much better by your display case in your showroom. Great video my man.
Just ordered one with noise canceling feature. Thanks for the tip!
Awesome video.
There should be Chris Reeve blade included also.
I can tell you, CRK MagnaCut heat treat is disappointing. Below 62. Still love the brand, but I specifically sought out couple of S45VN knives before they completely disappeared. That was their forte.
@@CuttingBoardRx I think LTK had an inkosi tested recently at 65 HRC
@@bosrey7807 I would have to see the video and how many times it was measured.
@@CuttingBoardRx if thats thrue make that video. You will get nice watch and feedback with that.
what spydeco in cruwear was that?
I've heard some rumblings about the Ritter Hogues having super low hardness on their magnacut blades. I believe they quote 61-63HRC but multiple sources now tested hardness and were getting anywhere from 56-58HRC. I wish they would have just stuck with m390 & 20cv. I've beat the hell out of both my mini & full size Ritters in 20cv and have yet to have any chipping and they stay super sharp for a very long time.... I have two magnacut Ritters that have become safe queens until I can get them tested.
Valuable content. Have you tested HRC of Magnacut ZT0350?
Do you think the next batch of Spyderco MagaCut will test harder ?
It has been months now and they still haven't released it.
@@RiverBoy53 I think they will develop heat treats that best correspond to what they consider the correct use of the specific model
@@CuttingBoardRx You have developed a wealth of information here. Thank you for sharing it.
Why don’t they heat the magnacut to 62-63 HRC? It’s known that magnacut is at is best at 62-63 HRC right? Can you explain it please. I have a Tactile Chupacabra that is 62-63 HRC but I didn’t know that the manix 2 salt is around 60 HRC. I own a the manix 2 salt too and I must say it sharpens real easy with water stones.
ONG IM GLAD YOURE TESTING THE VIPER VALE.
Ive been having Bad Viper Customer Service. its been 3 months since i requested a SINGLE PIVOT SCREW REPLACEMENT
Yeah viper customer service blows dog
Great info, thank you
Great info, well done!
Glad it was helpful!
Hello, what HRC Tester do u use? do u have an link?
@@Messercheck There are several on the market. I choose not to promote any specific one. You have to make sure that it covers the HRC scale and includes the calibration block. Once you get one, I could walk you through the setup. I noticed you are not a subscriber on my channel. What can I do to earn your subscription?
The thing we all have to remember is also Rockwell hardness does not guarantee a good heat treat either.
Agree, but….
But the opposite is NOT true- low hardness ALWAYS guarantees sub-par performance!
Excellent job as always man. I appreciate the attention to detail you put in your vids. I have a magnacut Ad20s clip point coming in soon, would you want to do an hrc test on it? I'm local in Arlington/Alexandria
Thanks for the good work. I had a feeling spyderco kept the HRC low for the salt series. I’m okay with it for those particular knives. The bel air should’ve been at least 62+ tho
There are rumors that they did on the latest knives. I don’t like the overall design, just an opinion of a crusty old guy, but there’s way too many parts!
Awesome vid!!!
I really like u thanks for all!
good job sir
Concerning your HRC tester, I am no expert, at all, but I once investigated it out of curiosity, in search for a cheaper alternative to regulars testers. I recall reading something about it needing a relatively large piece of steel to test acurately, and I must say that I'm surprised it works well on pocket knives, only maintained by the pressure of your fingers.
The event that hyped MC a lot was when Cedric and Ada tested this dual grit mule that did so well. Had he cut 500 bits of the rope, the story would have been different. Dr Thomas rated MC at 7 for toughness and 5.5 for abrasion resistance. Nothing incredible, but where it excels is that it can be hardened to the level of a similarly carbide rich tool steel, because the chromium is kept in solution. Around 60 I think it misses the point.
I’m fairly confident in the tester as we use this exact model to test components on USMC armored vehicles. As long as the tested item is flat where it contacts the 2kg block of steel, I’m pretty confident it’s giving better results than a single strike on an industrial tester.
@@CuttingBoardRx Yes, it seems quite accurate as I am seeing on your channel. It is good news for the knife world because these thing are not that expansive and maybe others will start to do it too.
Yes, manufacturers ought to disclose hrc range within a 2 points margin and really warranty it !
Right now, I'd like to test some 4V., Kizer has good prices on it but I fear it will be low.
I enjoy your videos very much and certainly appreciate what you do (especially at your own expense). However, I would like to see you do other videos of just your favorites, grails (mentioned below), and the like. Thank you.
That is a very expensive proposition.
@@mel87123 No, his favorites of what he already has. If they include grails, great. If not, I'm asking what his grails are, not for him to purchase them.
I have a slightly different idea of what a grail knife is. For example a custom Marfione is of no interest to me because it is not made by a single master, it’s not unique, it has no historical significance and it comes with a bunch of gimmicky junk that is just landfill garbage. Can’t get myself to like Shirogorov as it’s just a slightly better than average quality production knife.
Boker Tiger with Chad Nichols Damascus blade made out of WWII tank armor is more my speed. Or a South African flipper entirely made by one man who makes less than 100 knives a year. Or a 16 year old Benchmade like new in box time capsule… who wants to see that?
Yes
👍
Tell me... What's the difference in edge retention in magnacut at the same hardness number but wirh and without cryo.
Retained austenite.
great video!!
Professional
i have a similar device too, but cannot trust its results, they re too unconsistant.
Thanks for commenting! Like any other tool, this one requires practice and patience. I am constantly improving my skills with this tool and this will be evident to you if you watch couple of my latest videos. On the flip side, this video is for entertainment purposes only and should not be construed as anything other than that!
Hello...
Who tested HRC on Kershaw Launch 15 Magnacut?
Kershaw answers different data (from 60-62 to 62-63)
Good video, thank you! Happy to sub 🤘🏼
Welcome to the Tribe!
I got launch 20 auto mag cut.rw.60 62.yes.
Pretty disappointing from Spyderco, in my opinion. Not sure why this steel was even put under Salt series if it required low HRC to get the optimal corrosion resistance; we have steels they aren't using like Vanax that don't need to have as much compromise to get their corrosion resistance. How much better is it even than LC200N when you aren't even hitting 60 HRC? Feels like a waste to me, and especially questionable when Spyderco refuses to publish their HRC targets. They know if they published this number they'd get railed for it like Hogue did.
MagnaCut is NOT better than LC200N or M390/S20V
I’ve been trying to inform the public about this for 2 years and that is an impossible task at least for as long as I have less than 50K subscribers! And here’s your chance to help: subscribe now!
According to Larry it is easy to make steel hard but if the heat treatment protocols aren’t followed the steel won’t have its intended balance.
Dr. Larrin Thomas, I suppose you’re referring to? This is NOT what he’s saying, and he’s not saying it in a manner that may be clear to most folks out there is not a dot on the graph. The balance point is not ideal for all 3 properties, it’s just where they all congregating at around 85-90% of the full potential.
@@CuttingBoardRx he has definitely said that some knife manufacturers don’t follow correct procedures for heat treating and therefore don’t get the best from the steel but still like to put a high price on their product because it is labelled magnacut.
Oh, I’m familiar with his videos, articles, the books and even social media posts. But not like he’s going to come out and say: we created a steel that nobody needs but everyone wants. He does work for a very competitive company- Crucible Industries.
Friend! If you don’t do some independent thinking and question any and all authority, just stay with the industry, plenty of channels that peddle that kind of “truth”
I am not 110%positive but im pretty sure you are supposed to hit the SAME location on the blade 3 times to get an average with that style of tester.
@@marekburza7425 Nope. If I don’t move it, the reading will be either 4-5 points higher or I will get an error beep.
Thanks for subscribing!
Please timestamp chapters into video like this! It's easy to do and helps learning disabled persons such as myself. You'll get more views, too.
I always found harder blades are easier and faster to de-burr.
There's a couple people testing hrc with different equipments now. Guys, if you wanna make abuying decision based on hrc, make sure you follow the scientific method and compare the results for a particular knife from different people before you assign a number.
Feel free to post links to the other tests.
@@CuttingBoardRx a youtube named Apex Alchemy is doing HRC tests daily off the top of my head, there are others i will look up and mention later.
Yes, Magnacut under 60 - it is nothing.
By the way, there is Fox Original Gangster, where Fox promises in specs 62-64 hrc on Magnacut. It would be interesting to check it, according to other Italian knives result - it can be real
very nice .. take my sub you earned it
Welcome to the Tribe!
Would we be able to send you blades to test?
Sorry, not at this time.
Magnacut less than 62hrc is absolute shit! I am hardening my blades between 63 and 64- this is where Magnacut magic begins....
@@georgipanchev5059 awesome! What type of furnace?
lol, kershaw claims 62-63 hrc on their website for bel air
I think that’s why he specified “early production” on the bel air. Apparently, when Kershaw first released the bel air, the blades weren’t heat treated properly, so the blades were soft and the tip could be bent (per one of his earlier videos). Back then, the heat treated was listed as 58-60 (I think), now Kershaw lists the HRC at 62-64.
@echosierra9990 Thanks!
@@echosierra9990 would be interesting to see kershaws from newer batches tested. i bet they are pretty much the same
@@CuttingBoardRx is it legal to own automaic knives in your area? kershaw's recent launch 7 in cf and mc is a perfect candidate for testing if kai's claimed hardness worth anything.
Call them out, we will know who are true to what they say, this will call out the ones that arnt true and I bet this is wear alot of the companys have the 2nd in command come to the boss and say boss we got a problem, did u see this new video uploaded on RUclips, we are fkd what can we say to get out of this, here we all will help you company's out here, JUST ROCKWELL UR BLADES AT THE CORRECT HARDNESS And DON'T LIE ABOUT IT. (EVERRRRR)
I don’t think a video pops on their radar screen until a channel has 30K subs.
spread #MakeHRCGreatAgain
I think you might want to recalibrate.... I have seen most of these knives tested multiple times on a actual rockwell testers and most of them were higher. And I mean multiples of the same knife tested independently in different nations showing way different results then yours. All results were relatively close, except yours!
Send links. And I should call BS on your statement: 710, Manix Salt, Adira, PT Strider, and BelAir in MagnaCut are brand new for 2024. Nano and Vale are Italian made knives and almost nobody tests these. Somehow, you claim, somebody out there bought these knives in the last 3 weeks to 4 months and tested them in front of you, “multiple times” without so much as a short video?
About dealers listing HRC, you can look up the same knife at four different vendors and get four different ranges listed, at that point it's no longer worth a damn, I rather get information like that from channels such as yours.
That’s why you go to the source
But even then, you only get a range
Though personally, I Think that if you buy a knife that costs over 200$ for Chinese knives, and over 300$ for American knives, the manufacturer should test the blades before shipping, and have it written on a note in the packaging
@@bornonthebattlefront4883 Ye, and the manufacturer range is also somewhat hit or miss, depending on how often they actually test their batches after the initial run.
Thank you so much for all you do. I know so many companies must hate you.
Ha! That’s why I need everyone to help me grow this channel!
Also, I have 2 reblades done by Gersh Blades for some PM2's I own in Magnacut, both are done between 63-64 HRC.
@@adbramsayhey !! I know that guy 😊
@@GerstBladeworks yeah, this guy does some pretty amazing work!
Absolutely right about needing to know the blade HRCs. Thank you.
I knew Spyderco's CPM-S30V and CPM-CRUWEAR were awesome Steels! These are the Steels that I have in my Manix 2XL and Military 2 Folders that I absolutely luv. I knew those were good Steels! Thank you for proving this to me! Great Video! Keep up the good Work you're doing! :-) Peace, Stiletto :-)
MC run hard does not make a better blade steel. Application is everything. When you run the hardness of MC up from 60.5 Rc to 65 Rc, you cut the toughness from 17 ft-lbs to 10 ft-lbs. And at 65 Rc, MC has about the edge wear of S30V at 60 Rc (about 570 TCC).
TCC measures only abrasion resistance. When you drop toughness, you get more microchipping in normal use, so edge wear goes down faster. Vanax, which is a wonderful, fine-grained, almost perfectly stainless steel, has better edge wear then MC, at 60 Rc, but MC is much tougher -- 17 vs 11 ft-lbs. That toughness is what makes MC magic. When you run MC up to its top range of hardness, it loses its toughness advantage over Vanax. And all you get in return is a small gain in abrasion resistance for a huge loss in toughness.
If you're cutting jelly rolls and don't need toughness, fine, run MC as hard as you want. But in normal use, it's MC's high toughness at 60 Rc or so that makes the steel shine as a user..
In addition to advertised HRC, I’d love a standardized behind edge thickness measurement listed. Since geometry is so critical, but we don’t know how to expect cutting performance until we get it in hand.
It's a shame that the Manufacturers are doing an injustice to MagnaCut by not hardening it to its optimum hardness. I could care less about corrosion resistance, I take care of my knives. I do,however, care about edge retention.
Thank You so much for thus Video! Outstanding Job, and excellent content!!
Its kinda selling us only steel name not performances. Happened to me with bento box para 2 i k390. I was curious and sent my knife to a local knifemaker. I was disappointed because i saw on some forums that was hardened to 64, mine was tested in 2 different places on blade and turned out 62.5hrc
@user-zx5yd4cf3y My friend (from Bulgaria?) do not be disappointed in your knife! K390 ideal hardness for edge retention vs. toughness is 62.8 and BTW the tester that your machine shop used is likely to have +/- 0.25 error. If they took it all the way up to 64, the result would be 40% reduction in toughness with only 5% increase in edge retention! Is it a good trade? Hopefully you kept the knife? Since Roman times, Forums are literally places for people to come to be heard, no matter how stupid they sound!
@@CuttingBoardRx The thing is that i saw on knifeforums Big Brown Bear posted his testings of k390 para2 and shown 63-64.5hrc. To be honest that attracted me so i activated my family from Florida to order knife and send me here because bento box doesnt ship to my country (im from Serbia). Sorry for broken English
@user-zx5yd4cf3y your English is perfectly fine! I’m Ukrainian btw. Do you sharpen your knives yourself? If yes, just reduce the angle by 1-2 degrees and it will eliminate any concerns about edge retention reduction!
@@CuttingBoardRx Yes bro i sharp all my knives by myself with very limited equipment (dmt coarse/fine/extra fine and strop with gunny juice 1 micron). I know resin bonded dimonds are better but they are too expsnive for me. Slava Ukraini!
Thank you very much for your efforts to help us all with your tests! ❤
@@amitzdullnicker2k Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for subscribing!
@CuttingBoardRx I wonder what is your thougths about Dr. Larrin Thomas video ruclips.net/video/a5lzf8LA03o/видео.html and his conclusion that if the steel is heat treated properly then the selected hardness is primarily an opinion. Maybe you can even reply to him.
@@vengo999 I watched all his videos, read his articles and the Knife Engineering book. I’m not a metallurgical scientist, but as an engineer, I would research the heat treatment regime options, and select the most appropriate one based on the specific use case of my design. If I was designing a water sports knife, lower hardness seems to produce better corrosion resistance. If I was designing a hiking companion knife, I would choose the more balanced mid range. If edge retention was my primary concern, I would choose a more specialised steel like S90V , 110, 115, Maxamet etc. And for a tactical knife, 3V or CruWear.
Interesting to see the HRC of the Italian made knives, the numbers don’t lie!
Great video. Thanks for putting in the effort and the sacrifice of the blade coating😮
My god you do really beat your knives for us thank you love all your video's you have saved me lots of money . Any chance you will do any reviews on Guardian Tactical they use to work for Microtech. I hear their knives are really good.
Microtech is not my favorite brand for now and until they come clean with the MSI fiasco and the clandestine fix they implemented. After that, I’ll love them again. Pardon my silly activism!
@@CuttingBoardRx try Guardian OTF I just bought Guardian OTF it is ok not sure if as good as my Livewire. I would leave that up to you LOL.
Ukraine’s getting smoked over there bro, sorry the media stopped giving us updates after the Koursk debacle … 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
S35VN came along because S30V was difficult to machine.
I'm just starting the video, but Magnacut is awesome when treated correctly. I have a 65.1 custom demko reblade, and it's amazing. Magnacut at low RC isn't anything special
.5 of hrc can make a huge difference in a blade they are now running there hrc at 63 to 64 on the deka magnacut it is by far a better steel then sv 110 sv35 then the kershaw bel air magnacut rn the deka magnacut is now top dog
63-64 HRC every day of the week here.
Not saying you're wrong, but I do think it's weird (or shocking) that both Spyderco and Kershaw claim 63-64 but they're testing significantly lower. I could see a point either way but potentially 4-5 points is enormous in a hardness scale. I've seen video of Kershaw testing Livewire blades and nailing 63. Spyderco also said they were late to bringing this steel to market because they went back and completely revamped their heat treat to optimize it. Anyway, having taken apart a lot of knives I know this video took a lot of work so great job.
The salt series from Spyderco is kept slightly lower in HRC to aid in corrosion resistance. Magnacut does better with corrosion a couple marks down on HRC
@@Stafo85 Do you have verification of that from Spyderco or just assuming based on these numbers?
If magnacut isn't at 63 to 64 hrc I'd rather get a diffrent steel so
В очередной раз, спасибо за интересное и информативное видео! Ваш канал это, пожалуй, лучшее, что есть на ножевую тему на ютубе на данный момент. Даже интереснее хард юзов от вининула пожалуй)
Я рад что вы так высоко отзываетесь о моей деятельности! Спасибо!