Episode 4 Immersive Waxing
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- Опубликовано: 11 авг 2021
- Welcome to Episode 4 from Zero Friction Cycling where we discuss Immersive Waxing. As you may know immersive waxing is one of the most polarising parts of chain lubrication in the cycling world. There is a lot to immersive waxing, so if you want to get the most out of your chain you will love watching this episode. We cover off all you need to know about immersive waxing. Enjoy !
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Excellent video, Adam. This makes a very compelling case for doing immersive waxing. Other cycling websites should make this video - or your whole website - as one of their prominent links! I'm going to go ahead now that I have a greater understanding of how to approach immersive waxing. A two-chain system is a great idea - while one is in use on the bike, the other is scheduled to go in the wax pot (or has been - ready to put on the bike when the other one is due for re-waxing). Thanks for being so helpful and informative. I hope the day comes soon that ZFC becomes common knowledge amongst cyclists, cycling clubs, etc.
thanks so much phil really glad the information is of helps! (and yes immersive waxing really is a grand ol time, most especially for offroad riding - it is just unbeatable, easy, and... fun :))
Great information, I didn't realise a waxed chain could rust after a wet ride!
Yup. We seldom have rain here in the AZ Southwest. But I recently had to do a little Ultra-sonic cleaning (with EvapoRust) when my bike with waxed chain got rained on and I forgot to wipe the chain down. Waxing is super here in the Southwest where we have lots of dust and dirt and little moisture.
I whispered yes out loud when he said to run multiple chains. I use that super secret drip wax but submerse my chain in it with a plastic bag and it takes multiple days to dry and harden so that's my only option. I ride every day and winters are slushy but summer and fall are dusty.
Yup. Multiple chains and rotate. Very fast and easy.
I think i'm going to give this a go on my wahoo kickr rig first. Having a nice clean chain indoors seems ideal. The infor presented here is great and well balanced. Thanks for all the effort putting these videos together.
Hey rob! Ah as much as i am a number 1 supporter of immersive waxing overall (since it is the best way...) - for dedicated trainer bike, waxing does make a bit of mess it doesnt make on your outdoor bike! Initially excess wax is pressed out and blows away. On an indoor bike, excess wax is pressed out and make a lot of snow flakes on floor and side of trainer :). If i had a dedicated indoor bike, i would use a very clean wax lube like silca ss drip or ufo drip - or if you wanted super long between re lubes - silca synergetic or rex black diamond (not as clean being wet lubes just very long lasting and very low wear).
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Yep. Even with an nice hot wipe-down after waxing, the chain will certainly toss off wax flakes. Of course, you could put a beach towel down underneath for the first ride and then brush the chain down with a soft brush to knock any flakes of that are still hanging on. But as ZFC suggests, you don't have the contamination problem indoors that wax is so good at negating.
thanks for sharing!
question 👋🏼
asking from sustainability side, is carbon belt drive a good idea?
thanks for sharing
Hi Adam! First of all: it´s awesome to see you on YT and thanks for sharing your great work with us there and on your homepage. One question was popping up when I saw your recent video. In your review guide to AB Graphene lube you mentioned the need to "ufo-clean & kettle" for Smoove/Squirt/AB Graphene lube (p10). Later (p17) you stated that you can rewax immersive chains that have been toped up with AB Graphene lube cause AB confirmed that you can re-wax with msw/hot melt straight over. Just to get it right: you don´t "ufo-clean & kettle" when rewax immersive with msw/hot when Graphene lube was on but in any case when Smoove/Squirt was on the chain?
Hi guido - we have 2 different aspects mixed together there - one is advising an easy maintenance step for your lubricants with highly refined wax bases that have very little to no mineral oil content - where you can do an pretty impressive reset just with boiling water (Msw / hot melt / silca ss drip / graphene lube / ufo drip - i didnt mention all all the time in vid or get a bit clogged). These lubricants are also immersive wax compatible, in that if running silca ss drip, ufo drip, graphene lube - you can re-wax without the need to clean chain first. With other wax based lubricants like smoove / squirt / grax - you can re -wax without cleaning to a point - they are a different wax base - typically we believe mostly using slack wax which has a high mineral oil content (but its cheap and works well hence the low price point for such lubes). If you use say smoove for 1 or 2 uses, havent over applied so worked in and wiped excess and run treatment until it is starting to get dry - then you can re-wax over these lubricants ok as they stay pretty clean for that time, and there is little of the different wax base left, and things go fine. If one had been lathering up chain and there is a clear build up of such lubricants over 5 ish lubes - popping straight into wax pot - its not going to do wonders for the wax in the pot, and remember different wax base so if keep doing that, over time wax in pot wont be great / bond to chain will not be as good. Also, as they are not as refined base / different wax, those lubricant choices wont just mostly melt off, so boiling water cleans have limited effect - you really need to hit them with a solvent (UFO clean is best as environmentally friendly and designed to work on waxes) to get a proper clean. When i get a mo i will re -watch vid and see if i need to re cover this bit again better, or cover off in the F.A.Q vid - sorry if it wasnt super clear on this one re difference - but yeah - there is a reason why you pay $50+ for ss drip and ufo drip vs what you pay for smoove / squirt / grax etc - the base is a completely different, very refined, very clean and easy to clean, and no penetration issues post clean like squirt / smoove / grax - so you do get what you pay for. Smoove & squirt have their place - ie they are much longer lasting per treatment as the slack wax is longer lasting, so for some events where say ss drip or ufo drip may be stretched to make it flag to flag, smoove may be a better choice - just need to understand it is going to be more involved to clean and reset after if need a reset. If i had a 4hr wet xc marathon - so it is likely to well exceed immersive wax / ss drip etc treatment lifespan - and i didnt want to pay $50 for a treatment of ab graphene lube, i would use smoove, then reset with ufo clean, then go back to waxing / ss drip / ufo for next event / training etc. Let me know if all of that made any sense ;)
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks so much Adam! Great reply and I understand things now even more. Guess you don´t have to check the vid cause I cought up me questions mainly from your webpage and they popped up by watching your vid. So I used this way to ask! Didn´t expect such a reply! Awesome!!! Keep on going and thanks again!
The cycling industry needs to offer waxed chains.
Loving all these deep dive chain videos! One question, is there a limit to how many times you can break the chain with the speed link?
Hi Dom - some links are officially 5x re useable (ybn), most are officially single use.... but..... read the master link FAQ guide (instructions tab on website) where i cover the main options re single use links.
Would you recommend your choice of branded chain waxes over the 500g of Fully Refined Paraffin Wax (Kerrawax 422) and 50g Virgin PTFE Teflon Powder 1.6 Micron mix, that’s available and rated as a cheaper alternative?
he said in an faq that 50 grams is way, way too much ptfe for 500 grams of paraffin. did the kerrawax 422 end up working for you in the end?
Which paraffin do you recommend when creating DIY wax? If you search for "food grade paraffin" it typically comes up with canning "Gulf Wax." Is this the wax that should not be used? Any brand recommendations for high quality paraffin?
Sold!
I will try wax in my new Bike. Till now I just putted on new wetlube and wipe from time to time.
I wonder how big the difference in watts lost is between a well maintained waxed Chain and a never really cleaned wetlube Chain.
ah that really depends on the wet lube. A waxed chain is going to stay circa 5 to 6w (depending on chain model) day in day out. A wet lube chain - a top wet lube may over time get as bad as 8w+ (ie synergetic circa 5000km+ deep), average will easily be circa 12w+ over time, and the poor lubricants easily get 15w+. I had some tested by FTT machine post my main test and the worst of them like white lightning epic ride - that was over 19w after just 2000km. So it can be a lot. But even 3w - if you think that isnt much - get a 3w torch and see how bright it is (or a 3w downlight). Now imagine that amount of energy, every single pedal stroke, going directly into wearing through your chain faster vs propelling you forwards. Take tens of thousands of pedal strokes every ride - even small differences really add up quite quickly, which is why immersive waxing with a top wax always wins :)
Hi buddy, what about using the waxing process if you are mountain biking and thinking on crossing small rivers? Wont the wax dissolve and let the transmission dry?
Hi there no not at all. the wax is pretty stubborn even against most solvents, cold water does nothing. Riding in wet abrasive conditions will shorten treatment lifespan, but that is simply by way of abrasive particles physically abrading wax off chain. This takes time and lots of kms, it wont just dissolve off or wash off
For super muddy riding (cyclocross), what’s your favorite method for cleaning the chain before re-waxing? Thanks for the info, you converted me!
Boiling water! Ah, you said it at 10:00 in the video
@@landonthings Hey landon! And yes correct - man honestly this is where immersive waxing with a top wax is just so, so much better than other paths. The job ahead of most drip lube uses post such riding is a pretty big job to do a good reset. Mspeedwax or hot melt, boil up the kettle, and not long later, chain is feeling silky smooth, so much mud flushed out, dry and re wax.
If it is dedicated race chain and you want to keep it mint you can do a few more steps - the boiling water flush cleans are a great quick clean but not a perfect clean.
> Boiling water flush rinses
> Dry with hair dryer or heat gun for 2 mins
> Put into bidon of ufo drivetrain clean (works on waxes), soak 5 mins, agitate. Re boil up kettle whilst doing this.
> Rinse UFO with boiling water, the water will go from white to clear
> Dry with hair dryer or heat gun for 2 mins.
> Re wax.
Also check out the chain maintenance guide - instructions tab on website :)
How about immersive waxing for comuting? Say you ride to the office in the wet and then leave your bike for 7-8 hours, before heading back home. Is that a no go, or could you do something when you get to the office?
Okay here goes! After reading your webpage information and watching these videos a couple of times I’m taking the plunge. I’m a rain or shine bike commuter and my commute is 5 miles one way. Would you recommend re-hot waxing after a 10 mile round trip on a very wet day? Thanks!
Hey russ! Ah most excellent- you are in for grand times, and your drivetrain will already be doing a happy dance.
And it sort of depends. 10 mile in wet on a freshly waxed chain - you are probably ok to do some more trips. Officially best practice is to always re wax post decent wet ride for two reasons;
1) Reset contamination - whilst solid wax is the most contamination resistant lubricant possible, chains are not water proof - water will run right through chain, and whatever contamination it brings in with it will be pressed into set wax (same for any lubricant choice) and from there it is land locked until it is removed by re waxing (for other lubricant options, flush clean to reset which may mean solvent flush clean for man).
2) for wax chains - wax is abraded off the outside of rollers first, and rollers can easily start to oxidise as they are made of high carbon steel for hardness, and high carbon steels oxidise quickly if unprotected and wetted.
However - practicalities of intrepid commuting mean that re waxing every wet ride is often just not practical. As such using an immersive wax compatible drip lubricant such as tru tension tungsten all weather (great for this purpose), silca ss drip or ufo drip - you can just add a quick coating on when get get home to protect rollers, and then when you do get to re wax at weeks end to re set contamination - yeehaa. These lubricants do not need any cleaning at all before re waxing, they are compatible with mspeedwax or hot melt to just re wax straight over.
This combination approach of using drip to protect chain from oxidation, plus re wax when you can to reset contamination - still smashes the pants vs any other non immersive wax approach as to try to reset contamination in chain usually means solvent cleaning chain, and putting chain through multiple baths of solvent is just way way more hassle and costly vs putting chain into a day spa bath of lovely immersive wax.
Hope that helps!
@@zerofrictioncycling992 I'm in the same spot as russ and this answered so many questions I had about the practice of immersive waxing from a commuting perspective. This convinced me, planning to switch now.
Not seen all the videos, but I hope you got one on the testing itself. A look into how its done, how is the contaminant sprayed on and how do the chain looks underway.
I’ve took the decision to do waxing. I commute to work every day it’s only a few mile, but I do ride more miles at the weekend. Will using a drip lube after my commute be the best option.
Hey Zeeb - if it is a top wax you will have a good 300km of dry road riding, so if your weekly riding is less that this, you can just re wax weekly and be fine without need to use with a drip lube, or use silca ss drip, ufo drip or tru tension tungsten all weather to use in between if you need , or simply wish to reduce the number of times you re wax - ie it is popular to wax, re lube next 3 to 5 times with one of those lubricants, then re wax again to reset any contamination starting to build
Food grade pariffin wax works great.
Can you melt the wax and then paint it on instead of immersing the chain? I have a mental issue with continually breaking the chain! Maybe as something you dona few times before it is well worth immersing the next time, for instance?
Hi prince - no that wont work, it will set / become too viscous before proper penetration to pin, and of course you miss a key advantage of the flush clean that immersive waxing brings. If not for you then go with ufo drip or silca ss drip that are as close to the immersive waxes in a bottle as you can get, and do a periodic flush maintenance with ufo drivetrain clean to re set any contamination (follow maintenance guide on zfc website). Otherwise next best to immersive waxing overall is to use msw / hot melt - re apply next 5 re lubes with ufo or ss drip, then do an immersvie re wax to re set contamination. That will only be every circa 1000 to 1500km for most for each re wax so is a great next path if immersive waxing all the time is not for you, and next step after that is to use UFO or ss drip or simply a proven top drip lubricant that suits your riding
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thank you - sounds obvious now but great to get that clarified. Charles’ FTP is under 200 watts now he’s finally got a job. And his new king’s ‘get up’ means his CdA is well over 0.3… even with my big head I’m more aero than him now.
What are your thoughts of melting gulf wax and using the dupont spray on teflon versus the more expensive products in your video?
Yep gulf wax is good - but please avoid using teflon spray - we really want to move away from using teflon, you wont need it. MSw / hot melt etc all stopped using teflon years ago as it is bad for environment and also its manufacture is very bad, and you dont need it. Gulf canning wax is a high quality paraffin - it will do you very well, just note that it wont match msw or hot melt overall in treatment longevity and wear performance - the top products are a blend of waxes and exactly the right grade (too hard = too brittle = poor life, too soft = poor performance) and the ws2 additive adds a lot of wear protection. Over the years any DIY waxer who has tried msw or hot melt has stayed vs going back to DIY wax as the difference is still quite stark in riding re how much smoother and for how much longer the top waxes are vs just using food grade paraffin of X hardness grade. However, just using food grade paraffin is a still a very good option vs a huge % of commercial cycle chain lubricant products on the market - the main DIY fails are cheap paraffin with high mineral oil content / soy / palm oil contamination which is slow and gets very dirty and gunks up quickly giving immersive waxing a bad reputation with mechanics, or using candles which is really bad. If you at least use quality genuine food grade paraffin, things will go fine for those who are not willing to spring for the genuine best known products.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks so much. I will look into the 2 products you recommend. I am currently using rock and roll gold and have been thinking about switching because while its better than some others, it turns everything black. In terms of cleaning the chain with mineral spirits and alcohol, would you recommend also giving the cassette a bath in this before waxing?
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks so much. I will look into the Silca product. Currently I am using rock and roll gold. It cleaner than others I hav tried but It turns everything black and I find it hard to control. When cleaning the chain, do you also recommend cleaning the cassette with mineral spirits?
@@sethleibowitz2906 Hi seth! apologies for delay reply just back from leave and catching up on notifications - yes honestly you have WAY WAY better options than RNR gold. RNR Gold was a good choice circa 15 years ago, but things have moved forwards a lot since then. Legacy products like this, finish line, tri flow and many more - they are just such dated tech / performance now vs top tested products. It is like, would you go to a computer store and buy today what was a solid performing computer 15 years ago, or are you better off buying a product that is using latest gen chips, RAM, graphics card etc etc. RNR gold is cheap but since it has component wear rates many times greater than proven top products, you are paying overall a lot more per 10,000km in your running costs to use a legacy product.
At the end of the day ALL lubricants will go black - wet lubricants will typically go blacker faster. Cleaning cassette and rings yes you can use mineral spirits, works great and is cheap in most places, but you can really use anything you like. Unlike cleaning chain where depending on lubricant choice you may need to consider lubricant / modifiers being able to bond to clean clear chain metal after cleaning, for drive train bits all you want to do is just get them clean, so whatever efficiently works for you is all good. if one is waxing / using top wax lubes using a highly refined paraffin base - cleaning is as easy as brushing with a stiff brush, no solvents needed, and any build up is generally wear protective vs being something wet and continually becoming more abrasive.
I have no issues with pure food grade paraffin wax. Re-wax every 300-400km. Chain wear has basically stopped. Friction facts showed that's pretty close to the best for friction wattage performance without having to add nasty things like teflon (stays in the environment forever 😢)
yes i think there is a market for top wax blend with no friction modifier additives for those who dont need to save a fraction of a watt. not msw has removed teflon / ptfe, and hot melt never had it. THey are both extremely enviro friendly ,and the blend of waxes they use have huge r&d and testing behind them, they will still outlast and lower wear by a good bit any diy wax - but a good diy wax can still beat the pants off oh so many drip lubes, so if your happy, stay happy :)
may i ask what brand you're buying Richard? "food grade paraffin" is still kind of a wide range of things with different hardness/brittleness and it'd be good to know which exact one worked for you.
Have you tested boron nitride as an additive?? Worthwhile?? Rgr
i dont think i have tested that but then i do not always know what manufacturers put in samples they send me - however i havent heard of this being used as a friction modifier in cycling lubricant to date. I think if there was merit to it, it would likely have been out by now. There are so many possible friction modifiers out there - i think though this one is mostly used in really high temp applications - it could be too costly and for no / little benefit over other modifiers etc. If i see a product with this modifier though it will be interesting! Especially if one rides in climates of around 1000 dg celsius (you know, those cycling holidays to venus!! :))
Have decided to go down the immersive waxing route. Going to use a new chain but keeping my existing cassette. How do you recommend to best prepare the cassette?
Hey steve! You just want to clean it drivetrain. Any way that is good for you is fine - you dont need to worry about wax bonding to metal like we do inside chain, you just dont want to contaminate lovely new wax chain with previous stuff. Depending on what one was using before and level of maintenance, cleaning drivetrain ready for wax chain can be a 5 min job with cloth or a 1 hour job with solvents and brushes - the main theme is you just want it clean, and that it will likely be the last clean you have to do! :)
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks. I’ve bought Silca chain stripper. I’m
assuming I could bath and scrub with that after I’ve degreased the chain in it?
@@stevefry4317 You could but it may be pretty strong stuff for human skin. I would especially worry about the nether regions :)
but if you meant cassette - yes for sure - it just may be a bit more fancy / expensive product for that purpose than necessary as its really designed to get chains ready for awesome waxed life. If you had any turps / metho / degreaser - anything handy that you could just use use with a cloth and or brush if necessary - you may find that works fine and saves you fancy $$ stuff for prepping chains. But also if its contaminated from an existing chain vs new chain, so you werent likely to re use that anyway on next new chain - then for sure use up cleaning DT.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Ok. I’ve got white spirit handy so will just use that (to clean the cassette 😉)
Has onyone used wax in below freezing temps? Will it work, or turn nuclear, and destroy the chain?
Ha, i just had a vision of all these mini explosions in the early mornings in cold cities as cyclists head out on their waxed chains!
I have to rely on the experience of others & the experts in mspeedwax who are based in minnesota as i cant test this directly here in Adelaide. There are two main points - 1) remember it is a solid, so once broken in and surfaces polished, it will be less affected by some things can plaque drip lubricants which below certain temps can become a) very viscous and draggy or b) freeze and become brittle and just flake off. the wax is bonded to chain and so will tend to remain a high performing coating. It WILL be more brittle and so treatment lifespan may be shortened - but overall it will look after things very well, but one caveat;
2) it will perform best if it is broken in during more normal temps (ie 30 mins indoors at ambient temp). In normal temps - ie post fresh wax when i ride the chain is stiff for a few mins, then you dont notice, then after approx 30 mins it would be in its very polished state, super low friction ready for racing. In cold temps - the chain will feel (and be) draggy and slow for a long stretch after a re wax - it takes a long time to break in and polish as the wax is very hard. It gets there, but it will be slow for a good bit before hitting its normal very low friction strides. ON the plus side, remember everything is articulating on a solid wax coating so wear of your chain is zero / near zero whilst that is happening.
If a decent break in (even 15 mins indoors will help heaps) post re waxing before riding outside is not feasible post each re wax - it will be best to use in conjunction with a wax compatible lubricant - silca ss drip, ufo drip, or tru tension tungsten all weather - so you can top up with those for the next 5 re lubes, then re wax to reset any contamination starting to build - this will greatly lessen the break in workload.
I need to add this to the epic FAQ tome
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks for the answer. I live in Norway, so temps can be harsh during winter (and summer) Running waxed on my roadbike now, and will switch from wet lube on my winter fatbike. Thank you for all the great bike nerdery. :)
is paraffin wax, the stuff which is 10$ on amazon for candles,.. a good option?
heavens no. Please dont do that. So many DIY wax jobs are a bit of a disaster and give immersive waxing a bad wrap. Cheap paraffin is very oily, so it really gunks up drivetrain quickly, and it can also be too soft (bad for wear) or too brittle (bad for treatment lifespan and wear). Candle wax also often contains soy and palm oil impurities - it is slow, it is gunky, it is just bad. One can do a respectable DIY wax if you start with high quality food grade paraffin / canning paraffin - again the hardness / softness is a bit hit and miss - you will in no way match the top known waxes, but you can definitely beat a huge % of lubricants in a bottle. If you put cheap shite product on your hardest working mechanical part (by MILES) - just.... why. Your chain friction performance also determines lifespan of rest of your drivetrain components - so why try to run cheap rubbish on your hardest working part that will take your chain rings and cassette out with it, as well as ride around with a mess. cheap waxes can get so gunky in short order that they can really affect shifting performance. Just.... why, why, why do so many gravitate to wanting to run the cheapest crap they can find on their hardest working part........I have covered DIY waxing A LOT. Refer to this questing in FAQ guide for more info.
Depending on what your thresholds for determining "good" are, yes. Just be sure to use food grade or a "pure" source and you should be OK ... if not good.
I wax my chains with canning wax. No disaster. It works very well - far better than my old Pedro's Syn Lube. No surprise since this whole chain waxing resurgence started a decade ago with plain ol' "hardware store" paraffin wax. That's what Jason Smith used in his testing that showed chain waxing beating out all the specialty lubes. A year later, he added 5g of PTFE powder and 1g of MoS2 to each pound of paraffin wax and got a marginally better result. The first Molten Speed Wax was based on that formula. Anyway, if you make sure to purchase actual paraffin wax and decide not to melt dollar store candles, then there's very little reason to think that paraffin wax is "cheap rubbish", that it will be a disaster.
No doubt, the newest Molten Formula is better than just plain paraffin. But how much better? Is there any testing? So a good argument can be made for using it or one of the known and tested bike specific waxes. That's surely safe. And it really isn't that expensive - even at 3-4x the cost of plain ol' paraffin wax. And if you have an expensive driveline and you stress about saving a few watts of power, then all the more reason to buy a tested brand product. Just remember that paraffin wax was also been tested - and it worked great. So it is unlikely that using just paraffin wax will be a problem, much less a disaster. It just won't be best any more. But one wonders what that gap actually is.
I like DIY. I built my own e-bike. I've ridden over 12,000 miles on it (mostly with paraffin waxed chains BTW). The whole thing is very much DIY. I don't spend thousands of dollars on bikes. I don't, ride with a watt meter, use electronic shifters or post my rides on Strava. I mostly ride a '90s Trek 990 frame that I stripped, painted myself, and repurposed for road riding (and maybe touring). It has a 3x9 drivetrain that isn't very expensive. Yet I somehow manage to keep up with riders around my age and fitness level who ride much more expensive bikes. I'm 63 and have learned that a LOT of the claimed benefits of modern bike gear is either BS or offers benefits that are highly exaggerated. Is the DIY and older stuff as good? No. It really isn't. There are actually real improvements with modern stuff. But the improvements are usually small and the old stuff seems to usually be about 99% as good at 5-25% the cost. I don't race. I don't need the 1% (or less) advantage. And my bike chains cost far less than a pound of Molten Speed Wax.
I ride 200-300 miles a month and rotate monthly between two 9 sp SRAM chains on the Trek 990. I put over 12,000 miles on the two 8 sp chains (KMC - egads!) I used on my ebike while commuting (150 mile/week) to and from work for 2 1/2 years. I use Gulf Wax (typical canning wax) that now costs $12 per lb on Amazon. My Trek 990's chains runs quiet and clean and are showing almost no wear (even though I should probably rotate them more frequently). The ebike gets less miles these days but its two original chains are still doing fine. They should get me to 20,000 miles. (I do admit that in a moment of enthusiasm for waxing, I added 5g of PTFE to my wax a year or so ago.)
Regular paraffin wax is not rubbish. It is not a mess. But, of course, your preferences and situation may be different than mine and paraffin wax might not be your best choice. Hopefully this provides some perspective that will help you decide.
@@wturber Jason used a high grade paraffin, that is why it was so good, and gulf canning wax was the first UFO wax, not hardware paraffin. Grades of paraffin vary enormously, not only by oil content and other contaminants such as palm oil or soy, but its hardness / softness. If you have used cheap wax and its been fine - all good. This is definitely not always the case, many have a very bad experience with a very gunked up drivetrain and email for help re how to fix. I have spent too many hours of my life on DIY wax fixes. And, crap waxing gives immersive waxing a bad wrap. Bike mechanics see a gunked up mess when customer brings bike in and thinks oh ffs, another waxer. You will hear this on some podcasts where the mechanic may absolutely lambast immersive waxing due to constantly seeing this. Cycling friends see their buddies drivetrain and think i aint doing that. With a proper top wax, cycling friends see it and go hmmm, i think i want some of that action.
There is just a huge variance in the experience with cheap shite paraffin from ebay, hardware etc that results vary and one persons experience simply cannot speak for everyone - ie i used cheap paraffin and its was good, so that means everyone else in the world buying cheap shit paraffin will also be good. If only that was case, cumulatively time wise i would have about 2 months of my life back. Again, its a big world out there and a lot of it if it has a DIY wax problem emails zfc.
DIY done great, like yours, absolutely it can be brilliant. You dont need the little gap between gulf canning wax and mspeedwax if not racing. MSw / hot melt -those moving from straight paraffin to those do always report the treatments last notably longer (they stay smooth before feeling / sounding dry longer- they are not just a base paraffin with additives, there are other stuff blended in as well - blends that are tested and tested and tested). And the additives provide a lot of wear protection if one does end up pushing a treatment long, which straight paraffin will not.
Considering a bag lasts most circa 10,000km - or an entire year or more - and they are wearing their expensive bits at one third the rate - this is why the proven stuff is so popular - it is not much to spend each year for your lube, especially when it is saving hundreds in wear - vs going DIY. Many many many do also go DIY, and even though it has been clearly recommended that if one does, go with quality food grade like gulf canning wax, again so many will still think im not paying that.... candles / cheap stuff off ebay is my bag baby. And.... wow results do vary.
@@wturber Appreciate you sharing. Thank you. I too wonder what the gap in performance/longevity is between canning paraffin (Gulf) and branded (MSW) wax immersions. If only somebody was able to accurately test and share the results and advise on a DIY formula. Then my friends wouldn't look at my drivetrain and think "I am not doing that". I doubt it would ruin the market for the brands. DIY types like you and I would benefit, but new bike buyers are hardly going to bother on DIY wax if they are spending $10,000+ every year or two on fancy new bicycles. They will still buy the branded waxes. I do wonder what the alternatives to PTFE/teflon additives and other stuff blended in. It is good to know Gulf is working for you. Pedal on!
@@sarah-janelowrie2571 No problem. I'm sure that @zerofrictioncycling992 is correct that people are creating messes by melting dollar store candles and soaking their chains in it. But as someone who spends about 12 hours a week repairing old bikes to give to kids (free) to kids who don't have bikes, the typical bike chain out there is a big mess. They are typically filthy from over lubrication (WD40?) which causes them to collect dirt or rusty from a lack of lubrication. The chains avid cyclists run are also often a mess. They just start with a pricier oil. One thing that Jason Smith revealed over a decade ago was how many chain lubricants were total garbage at the time. So, while dollar store storm candles may make a mess on a chain, that's just typical.
There seems to be a terminology problem with what is or isn't "hardware store" paraffin wax. I googled "Ace Hardware" and "paraffin wax" and got Gulf wax. So for clarity, it's probably best to stay away from generic references and to be more specific. Use Gulf Wax or some other name brand food grade paraffin wax if you are going DIY with chain waxing. That will mean that it has been fully refined with an oil content of around 0.5% - good enough for food use. It won't be be full of messy oils that will gum up your chain.
And Jason Smith's original formula is as follows if you want to include some performance boosting additives: "The recipe for the UltraFast lube is surprisingly simple: 1lb of household paraffin wax, 5g of pure PTFE (Teflon) powder, and 1g of pure molybdenum disulfide (MoS2). The wax is melted at approximately 180°F, the powders are added in, and the ingredients are thoroughly mixed with some sort of agitator (Smith uses a common battery powered milk frother)."
Is it an option to immerse in drip wax.
Yes, but that seems expensive, and won't dissolve the old wax, which is the main benefit of immersion waxing over drip waxes.
Hi Gary yes absolutely, in fact many wax emulsion lubricants the mfg really should be specifying that it is best to do initial application immersive, and any application post proper clean reset via immersive application - as AB did with graphene lube due to significant penetration issues. SMoove, squirt, grax - all have same level of initial penetration issues, and if i was me and that was my lube - i would absolutely be applying initially via immersive. It isnt too hard with some - ie smoove you can remove the nozzle from bottle, pour into a 500ml screw top lid container from supermarket - submerge chain (may need to do one side, agitate, flip, agitate - if only have one bottle and submersion depth doesnt fully cover chain), remove chain thoroughly wipe excess, hang for overnight set, pour lubricant from container back into bottle and replace nozzle, close screw top container ready for next time post reset clean. They do not instruct to do immersive application when they should be, as this is not amazing from a marketing perspective - ie if smoove says recommend do immersive, and squirt doesnt - most people looking at both bottles with go squirt thinking its much easier - all is sweet to drip on and smoove telling me to do immersive - but, all is not sweet if you just drip on. even if you follow the advanced guide on zfc instructions tab (heating chain, heating lube, very thorough work in), this just lessens the penetration issue, it doesnt negate it - all of those more traditional wax emulsion lubricants should absolutely be applied immersive or there will be a period of high friction and wear - which will not feel but you will be able to track measure with digital guage - after applying to a properly cleaned chain.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Adam. I got new chains degreased and immersed both in a jar of silica ss. I did not have to change the cogs. Both are smooth as butter. I am going to top of with silica ss drip. I have been wiping off the chains after each ride with micro fiber cloth. Next when I reset I am going to try the kettle of boiling water instead of a degreaser.
After dipping in hot wax do you just put the lid on and leave the wax in the pot to reuse? Or does it need to be stored in a different container. Also have you or anyone done a independent rating on the different manufactured chains?
@@garynoble668 leave it in the pot. Chain information is on the site
If you had the time is there any reason you shouldn't always flush the chain in boiling water before dipping into the wax pot? So little effort to get the chain clean and not contaminate the wax pot???
Hi Ovidiu - yes - for top immersive waxes like msw and hot melt especially for dry road riding, there is so little contamination getting into chain you would never, ever track a tangible benefit for boiling water flush rinse. Kettles actually use a bit of power, so it would cost you more in electricity over 15,000km than an wear extension you would get, + time wasted. Far, far, far far better tip is to just re wax early vs pushing treatment lifespan - those who re wax early get astounding lifespans as chain metal just never really gets a chance to come into play, so rather than boiling kettle, just re-wax every 200km vs 300km and add about 5000 to 10,000km to your already super long lifespan on waxing, vs boiling water every time where for road you wouldnt be able to tangibly track a difference. It really only makes a tangible difference for post proper wet rides / really dusty or muddy offroad rides. Trust me have had a number of customers who have boiling water rinsed every time for road, no greater lifespan achieved vs those just re-waxing. Those rewaxing frequently though can go 20,000km + vs 10,000 to 15,000km rewaxing circa 300km so massive benefits to doing more frequently and not bothering with boiling water unless need to - if you dont need to, it doesnt add any benefit.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 My issue with very frequent rewaxes is my 12 speed SRAM quick links become expensive to ditch every time I pull the chain off. Any solution for that?
@@CoreyLKoberg Suggested reading: zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Master-Link-FAQ-Guide.pdf
@@zerofrictioncycling992 It would seem to me that the tangible benefit would be in reducing the contamination of the wax itself from surface dirt and small metal bits that are generated from the chain itself (though that is minimized by waxing early). Maybe you don't have to change the wax out as soon with some pre-cleaning?
Is the effort worth the trouble? Maybe not - given the long chain life obtained by simple dipping. Still, wiping the chain down before wax immersion with damp rag might keep your wax clean longer and is quick and easy.
@@wturber Hey Jay it really depends a bit on the cyclists riding. For dry road riding, just re wax, that is it. So little contamination is involved that typically taking measures to reduce are just added time for no trackable benefit (ie over time X vs Y is unlikely to be able to track a greater km wear lifespan). For offroad dust will stick to outside of chain from static electricity of chain whizzing through the air, same as why dust sticks to the frame and wheel rims. Wiping this external dust off with some alcohol on microfiber cloth is a great 20 sec job that saves bringing all that dust into ones wax pot. And or two pot system like a boss shown at 1hr 39 min mark in episode 7 - two pot system is great for gravel / mtb riders. Proper wet (especially mud rides) benefit from a boiling water flush rinse as water transports the contamination deep into chain, vs just surface level dust - so that will again greatly reduce amount of contamination brought into wax pot (and some ride salted roads in winter etc). So like everything, it depends. A cyclists riding in dry road conditions will gain nothing by doing a boiling water flush rinse - whereas when i finish a muddy cx race or mtb ride / race - huge benefit. Great benefit to wiping chain pre wax for gravel and mtb's, but miniscule and not measureable for dry road etc.