Some Questions: 00:00 Introduction 03:55 Can I use a Rice Cooker? 06:00 Can I use a instant pot? 08:00 Can I do it in a pot on my stove with a thermometer? 09:28 What about the silca bags? 12:13 What is the ideal Wax temperature? 14:20 Should I put the full bag of wax or half a bag? 17:00 Two pot system 19:00 Rewax early with 2 chains 22:32 Rewax to often, is it a hassle? 24:33 Should I clean my chain before rewaxing? 27:32 Do I need to clean the chain with hot water after every wet ride? 31:04 I ride a lot in wet conditions, is waxing suitable for this conditions? 36:12 What to do when I cant rewax the chain after a wet ride? 40:16 Should I remove my wax chain if I am going to wash my bike? 42:00 Wax master link? 43:00 Can i reuse my links? 49:00 What link for what chain 54:40 When to change my WAX? 56:00 How do I change my wax? 1:00:25 How do i know the wax is damaged? 1:01:25 Wax is toxic? 1:02:00 I switched to wax and noticed some rust in the cassette 1:04:00 Tips for bikepacking 1:15:00 Why my local bike shop says waxing is not good? 1:20:00 How to minimize wax build up? 1:23:00 How to prep my chain for Waxing? 1:23:28 I am sure i prep my chain correctly but something is feeling weird or noisy
In my opinion the best way to keep such a long video engaging is to use time stamps, marking each of the questions. Great topic, and I hope you get the engagement it deserves.
i would have to agree, great video, I'm slowly digesting it, but timestamps or breaking it up into a playlist of smaller videos would make it a lot easier to peruse. Kind of a common theme on this channel, you should get an editor or someone that can distill these long-format talks into bite size consumable pieces
I've now tried immersive waxing of my chain for the first time, and can attest to the simplicity and effectiveness of it. I bought a cheap slow cooker - the brand Adam suggests (but I could only get a 3 litre capacity one, not the 1.5 litre size he mentions, which doesn't seem to be made anymore). I bought some Molten Speed Wax (2 units = 4 pucks), melted the pucks into the cooker, and let it cool overnight as the first step (but I could have added my chain once they had all melted). Next, I removed my chain, put it on top of my wax, turned on the slow cooker, and let the chain melt into the wax (threaded onto a swisher tool). Simple! As Adam suggests, you can go off and do something else while it melts. Once melted, and the chain is hung up to dry, it only takes 15 minutes for it to go solid - ready to place on the chain. As Adam says, the total labour time is minimal - chain off, onto wax, then once melted (nothing you need to do), hang up to dry; it's nothing. I've now ridden 147 km with my waxed chain, and it still looks and feels great. I showed a local bike shop how clean it was, and they were amazed - given all my riding had been on a gritty trail. I've also found the gears change more smoothly than when using a drip-on lube. Hardly anything comes off the chain when giving it a wipe after a ride compared to when I used a drip-on lube. Three cheers for Adam and ZFC - he brings science, not hype or marketing - to what is best for chain maintenance, performance, and longevity. Because he's not trying to market his own product (he doesn't have one), I'm completely satisfied that his testing is un-biased. Also, you can tell he is genuine in trying to get out the the cycling world what really is best, objectively. He's made lots of videos and guide documents not for his benefit, but for all the cyclists out there. I hope that ZFC becomes a 'household name' in the world of cycling not just here in Oz, but internationally - for everyone's benefit.
Thanks for the great video Zero friction cycling, I've been waxing my sram axs flat top chain's for about 12 month's using the DIY paraffin wax/PTFE method and after watching this video I'm going to ditch that as I have purchased the silca wax and drip wax as well. I'm looking forward to giving this stuff a go as you rate it pretty highly. IMO hot waxing is amazing, your drive train part's last so much longer as well as the chain and it's also nice to be able to fix a puncture and not have your hands covered in black grime 🙂.
Thanks Jeremy! yes depending on what you used as base wax previously - DIY waxing can vary a fair bit - but it is definitely going to be great to have you off a blend that is using PTFE, we really want to move away from that. And ha yes immersive waxing really is king, and it really is a lot lot easier than it is often touted - going by wax sales i think the message is getting through! :)
I use the double boil method in a small pot on my electric stove, and a large mason jar to contain the parafin/PTFE mix. I use a cooking thermometer to carefully monitor temps. Place 1 pound of parafin in large mason jar. Place jar in medium size pot of warm water. Heat on medium - low heat on electric stove for 30 min or so untill wax melts. Water begins to bubble at 212F, dont let it get that hot. Keep it around 190-200F. I also use a neodymium (rare earth element) magnet on a butter knife to collect metallic particles from the parafin. Just stir the melted wax with the magnet for a minute or two it will turn black from collecting the particles. Wipe the magnet with a paper towel, and repeat a couple times. Make sure to remove the magnet when you immerse the chain.
wow this episode was a masterpiece. I am a beginner to cycling and maintenance and find it fascinating. sometimes it's really nice to hear things multiple times from slightly different angles. I know you take some heat for being long winded / rambley, but I truly appreciate it and learn a lot. what a world this would be if everyone cared about their craft this much!
For the "Two Pot System Like a Boss" - what do you think of this idea: first pot is lab/food grade paraffin with a "grit guard" (to raise the chain, and let the grit fall through), and the second pot can be your wax of choice (Silca Super Secret, MSpeedwax). The object is two fold - use less expensive on the first pot, and secondly, the lab grade paraffin is clear (the tungsten disulfide really makes it dark), so you can see better how contaminated the first pot is.
Hey Rachominator - yep that is going to be ok, but it will really only be a short term thing overall, as once you have done circa 30 re waxes - it is recommended pot two move over to be pot one wax, and fresh bag into pot two. All up this = around 60 re waxes per bag of wax, which is A LONG LONG TIME - making the cost of wax almost negligeable as a lubricant cost. And once you have that system going, you are simply just buying one new lot of wax every VERY LONG TIME, and both pots have the super wax in them. But as a start, no real issue with using Gulf canning wax or similar- just note that being able to see more into the wax wont really help you with anything - the system will just do what it does. Also note that whilst genuine lab grade / food grade paraffin is good - there are SO MANY grades re how hard or soft the wax is - too soft is not great, too hard is not great - it will not be same as msw or hot melt. Likely the very low amount of different base will not negatively impact the base wax over time, but it is possible it may a little bit if the base is notably harder or softer after many re waxes from pot 1 to pot 2. I personally would not worry / stress re that, just flagging it MAY happen, and it MAY impact treatment longevity etc - but that would be about it, it wouldnt be a major issue even in worst case - just a possible treatments may not last as long over time.
@1:26:57 its finally getting really interesting. You should do a dedicated video about that. But its been a hard time for me getting that far. I am interested in this topic but I literally fell asleep after about 30 minutes. I really appreciate your work. I'd like to see some shorter videos from your lab about your testing methods, preparations, worn chains, showing and explaning your results, ...
here is my prewax prep - wipe waxed chain with rag to get off surface contaminates....then I "bake", or preheat chain on low in toaster oven before redipping! this is great as it preheats the chain (good for wicking fresh wax back into roller/pins) and the old wax runs out, i suspect this is similar to the boiling water method, but without the risk of getting moisture stuck in chain. also I use a heated ultrasonic pot as my wax pot....15 mins with the ultrasonic feature on, 15mins of the chain just sitting (still) in the wax, total time in wax 30mins.
Great video. Fantastic info. Just waxed two new chains I'll be riding with from now on. Very excited. Thanks again. Will share this video with friends and family.
I do most of my training indoor: -is it a good option to have one chain for my home trainer and an other one for outside? -can I extend the time between two waxing if I just run indoor? I imagine that there is less contamination than outside
unless you do very high miles one chain should still be fine - treatment lifespan for indoors is affected not so much by contamination as there should be hardly any, but by your riding type. one person might do a lot of z2 on zwift. another might only do indoors for high intensity intervals or racing. And there can tend to be no "Free" kms - ie when i ride up Mount Lofty here - i could do 40 minutes at 250 to 280w, then get 10km of very low power as i zoom along downhill. On indoors after 40 mins at X power, that is normally followed by another block of time at power etc vs free kms. So just be guided by how long a treatment is lasting, how often you are needing to re wax, and if its frequently then a second chain on rotation is handy for some, or using a compatible wax drip to top up between waxings (like ufo drip etc).
About re-using master links : I re-wax the chain and re-fit the (unwaxed) master link, then if I can disassemble the fitted master link by hand then it goes in the bin. If I can't disassemble it by hand, it stays. Not saying that approach is right for everybody but it stops me worrying.
Hi Adam. Thanks so much for all your immersive wax teaching. Is the 2 pot method superior to the boiling water rinse? I’m talking pretty muddy mtb rides. Chain off even after a 2 hour ride. I’m thinking boiling water rinse (3 x500ml baths. I use an old pan on the stove to keep the water good and hot) would win that competition. Hmm. Couod keeping the water boiling in my pan damage the wax that’s left behind on the chain after rinsing? How about cleaning the cassette and chainring?
Overall yes. If its wet offroad ride, i will normally still do one quick boiling water rinse at least as oh many so much crud is easily washed out, it is still best to save all that going into pot one as its so easy to do. And no, wax has to get a a good bit hotter than 100 to damage. it is possible the chain might really heat up more sitting on the bottom, but overall it will be a non issue, so little wax will be left in the chain so even if damaged, it is too little to affect anything. Cassette i normally find is clean enough just washing the bike post wet offroad rides, otherwise literally just a quick go over with a very stiff nylon brush and done. Thankfully unlike wet lubes / drip lubes - wax chains being solid lubricant - theres is rarely anything on cassette to have to worry about cleaning!
Thank you guys for amazing info, waxing has been lifechanging for me, it is just great. Do you have some test about new Flowerpower Wax? Is it good to use as wax top of in long events?
Thanks so much for the lovely feedback Martin! Waxing really is the best. Flower power is a great product, i am really pleased to see such products like this come to market, such and enviro friendly and super low wear drip lubricant, and at a great price point. However, it is really going to be a top option for those who are not waxing. Testing on this front will be a bit ongoing, but to date it is showing that it is not that cross compatible with the top immersive waxes of mspeedwax or hot melt. It is simply a very different wax base, the sunflower seed base wax just doesnt really bond / work well with highly refined paraffin base waxes. It actually runs with fairly oily feel - which makes it very smooth when used as a stand alone product - but testing using with msw or hot melt - if applied over the wax, the treatments start to sound and feel dry relatively early, and next re waxes are not quite the same -- paraffin bond to chain is definitely affected. So silca ss drip, ufo drip, or tru tension tungsten all weather remain the top recommendations for use in conjunction with immersive waxing, Flower power is really a great option for those who are not going to go immersive waxing path.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Amazing, thank you so much for superb answer, everything i needed to know. Yeah Flower power look good because of price point. Iam not planing to stop waxing with my MSW so i will just bite it and buy bottle of UFO drip. I will use it just once or twice per year so it will last me a long time. Thank you for your work.
Watching all of these videos convinced me to start immersive waxing my chain, which I did for the first time yesterday. It's so simple that there was no need for me to have been intimidated all of these years. The only thing I may have to do differently from Adam's instructions is put my slow cooker on high, rather than low. It's rated at 120 watts max. I only put in half a bag of Silca's wax and it took just under 90 minutes to completely melt, and that was with it covered. I'll test it on high next time but I don't know if that only affects the top temperature or it will also decrease the melting time as well. The Molten swisher was a great buy and made everything very easy. I definitely like it better than the bent wire hanger tool I made first. Can't wait to ride with this chain for the first time. Thanks Adam.
beauty, yes some slow cookers are less power than others. IF you need faster melt time then yes on high, lid on, just set a timer for say 45mins. Many slow cookers if left on high can get wax to over 140dg c given some hours to do so, and that will kill the wax. On low, lid off, just go do fun stuff and come back whenever and swish - that way if you forget, no matter for how long, wax is will be perfect. People sometimes forget and leave on overnight, and so you just want to make sure that if you forget about it, you are not going to cook the wax (above about 110 the long chain molecules of the paraffin begin to break down, killing its lubricity).
Appreciate all the great info I will be doing my first wax in a few days. In one of the guides it does two mineral turp soaks overnight while another one does the first soak for 15minutes. I might be overthinking it, but does it matter which one I go with. I will be using a new Sram chain.
Hey panda! thanks for feedback and yes there was a bit of change - i initially had overnight which just makes the following baths easy especially for tough greases like srams, and this is safe with mineral turpentine / white spirits - however some degreasers / other solvents may cause hydrogen embrittlement - and so the soak time was reduced to 15 mins (which is still perfectly effective, you may just want to do a bit more agitating / mini soak on sram chains on following baths) to ensure that if someone was following the guide but did not have access to mineral turps and used something else instead, the chain will still be safe (ish - it is recommended to ensure not to use degreasers or solvents that may cause hydrogen embrittlement). Hope that helps!
Thank you so much for the detailed reply. You are a legend! I'll go with the overnight soaks for peace of mind of a thorough clean since I have mineral turpentine.
Can you use an ultrasonic cleaner at 80 degrees to wax? The Silca says they do it; though most good cleaners reach only 80c. Love your videos, thank you for explaining everything so clearly!🙏🏻👍🏻
Thanks Derek - And yes you can indeed as long as ultrasonic goes to 80dg - if you dont have temp, heat wax in pot first, but note thats all getting a bit faffy if your US doesnt have temp. And also note that the VAST MAJORITY of home ultrasonics will lack the power to do anything that effective with wax, it is too low viscosity for cavitation for most. Some powerful ones may do something, but again you need to degas run etc to try. If you US is like 50w ultrasonic power (tested via power meter consumption plug, not claimed power) - then i wouldnt bother - 100w +, maybe worth a shot if you really want to tinker.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thank you so much for the reply! 🙏🏻 Now that I know that I’m going stick with the 2 pot like a boss. I’m just going to carefully use a multi cooker in the slow cooker setting, and get a second liner. They are called instant pot in the US and the 3qt size are wider than a small slow cooker at the bottom; they also come with a steamer tray that will lift the bottom of pot 1. Thanks again!
Thank you again for your videos 🙏🏻 To change wax brands from Silca to Molten, can you just throw the Silca out of the pot and put the chain in the new Molten one?
@@zerofrictioncycling992 I could buy, but shipping and taxes would raise the price to something like $120. I followed all your tips, made my food grade wax, results are great! Thank you so much. I am using the KMC Digital Checker, my XT chain is at 0.12 with 2300km. Great results for a MTB.
One question, if I am doing 2 chains at the same time in the pot, it means I could do 15 rewaxes in total from one bag of silca hot melt, or it would be also 30 rewaxes like if I am doing only one chain? Thanks for the great job you guys are doing!!
@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks!!! I did not get the youtube notification and I emailed you a similar question, now it is clear. I asked you also about chain preparation in that email, I appreciate if you let me know your usual workflow when it comes to preparing various chains for different bikes. It amazes me the amount of effort you put in this ZFC project, and how all this knowledge and years of testing/experience is so useful for people like me just who are just starting to do immersive waxing ⛓️ regards
If I'm going to put 2 chains in the same jar for the mineral spirits and then the denatured alcohol, do I need to double the amount of mineral spirits and denatured alcohol? I'm assuming the answer is yes but I just wanted to double check.
Hey Adam - great work, appreciated and such invaluable 'quality' source of info as I start considering going the Waxing route..! Can I ask - what is the make/model of the multi cooker you have showing here? I can't find anything near similar...I like the shape, as opposed the typical round Instantpots etc, as I reckon it would be easier to wax at least a couple of chains simultaneously and I also noted you mention on another video re you setting the exact temp at 90º...not many of the multicookers seem to offer set temps in slow cooking modes etc, only when on Roast and so on.... Thanks in advance....(and I'll also be in touch soon via email to ZFC as I'd like to purchase a few things and also have a couple of Q's that may not be covered in FAQ - like how to intermediate bike clean and dealing with Oz red dust here in WA when riding Gravel..!) Steve
Thanks steve! That one is a kambrook - had it for so long, i dont think they do t hat model anymore - it seems to be superseeded by this one but i think its probably the same - kambrook.com.au/products/temp-control-slow-cooker?variant=32001082556529 Another one that goes in and out of stock a bit but is really handy is this one from kogan - www.kogan.com/nz/buy/kogan-12-1-rice-cooker-multi-cooker/ Kogan are often cheap stuff but again i have been hammering this one for years (just choose manual and set temp) and the two pots are very handy - can easily do 3 chains per pot if you put enough wax in. And yes have a look also at the chain maintenance guide - that may have you covered re how to handle the dust there- if not for sure zing an email through and i do my best to answer speedily! zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/chain-maintenance-guide-v5.pdf
Hey Adam - Thanks, you’re a star! I’ll look then up a bit later and see what’s around….yes, I did notice what looked like a two-pot model on your bench as well and wondered about its usefulness as well…! About to head out soon for small early evening ride, no doubt get the Grevil caked in dust again..! 🙁 Will sure be in touch soon re some purchases and Q’s etc….Cheers mate 👍
Regarding commuting: If riding in wet conditions in the morning and then returning to bike for riding home maybe 9 h later, and do the re-waxing at home, is this time window regarded as risky regarding oxidation? Any suggestions otherwise to solve the issue of having a wet chain in the workplace during the day? (Could be a hazzle to remove the chain and clean it at work ) kind regards/ Mattias
Hey mattias sorry delay reply, i trying to get onto comments faster! (busy! :)). Mostly it is fine, but not always depending on chain roller metal, salted roads or not etc. I would say first try it (just wipe chain with microfibre cloth at work). If you do notice some spotting a) dont panic it is just cosmetic, all the action happens inside chain and that starts to oxidise many many days later as that has poor air exposure b) take some ss drip or tru tension tungsten all weather to work and and put a quick coating on (back pedal, drip on, 10 secs, done). They are fully immersive waxing compatible so great to use with I.W for those that need to.
I'm totally new in waxing and want to buy the first pack of wax. I thought about buying Silca wax and a slow cooker. A complete new drive train waits for cleaning and waxing. But I've one big question I can't answer with reading the faq and the waxing guide on zfc. Will I also need the liquid silca stuff? And if yes when? Or will I only need to wax the chain in "the hot tup" every ~250km? Looking forward for an answer.
Hey betty, need to use liquid wax = no. Handy for many = yes. Ie rather than every re lube at circa 300km be a re wax, it can take the pressure off many to re lube as needed with silca ss drip or ufo drip , then re wax to re set any contamination starting to build. with those immersive wax compatible products no cleaning is needed at all before waxing again, just re wax. So this for say most road riders means they only do a re wax every approx 1000km, and just using a wax drip lubricant in between. Immersive waxing all the time will always be the absolutely lowest wear path, but due to the high contamination resistance of these wax drip lubricants - the combo approach keeps you in a very good ballpark of that, but without the pressure of every re lube being a re wax. Check these two vids next coffee, they will really decide for you if waxing & or combo approach is right for you; ruclips.net/video/TwXdeOBXlBQ/видео.html ruclips.net/video/kVzhm-yTojk/видео.html
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thank you very much for this complex answer! I will watch them for sure. Would you recommend the Silca wax at the moment? Or is there something better? If I read your sheet on zfc right it should be a really good one.
@@bettyxd9 Yes for sure - the top lubricants recommended for use with immersive waxing at the moment are Silca SS drip, Ceramic Speed UFO drip, or Tru-Tension tungsten all weather, all are great products and need no cleaning before popping into wax pot every circa 5th re lube.
I ride a recumbent trike that is 8 speed. Its chain is 12' long and I'm using my trike for long distance touring. I'm planning on getting a new chain soon and plan to wax the chain. Since I'll be away from home for long periods during my tours I can't bring a crock pot to rewax.....can I use the drip wax lubes to keep my chain lubed between immersion waxing and how often should I use the drip wax lubes?
Once you wax, you won't go back. I've been running waxed chains for about 9 months now, once the original prep is completed they are very low maintenance.
I did a ride in the wet and didnt dry the chain probably and have a little bit of rust on the outside. The most disappeared after a rub with a microfiber cloth. Whats with the inside of the rollers? Should I just rinse with hot water and re-wax? Cheers and thanks in advnace!
Hey jesper if it is just a bit on the outside its not a concern just a visual thing. There is much less air exposure inside so normally that will take a good bit longer to start to oxidise vs the outside. If it is badly oxidised outside then inside may also be a concern, if just a little, normally no cause for alarm just aesthetics
What are your thoughts on Silca's wax "system" ? Josh said that he only does a hot melt after 1500km what he does instead is put the Super secret chain lube as a top up to extend the hot wax. Also, would you just rewax as normal if using this? Or clean with turps and metho?
Yes it is brilliant. Many use silca ss drip with msw or hot melt - it was designed to be used in conjunction with immersive waxing. For a lot of riders that system takes the worry away re keeping up with re waxing every time, as can just wax, re lube next say 3 to 5 times with ss drip, then re wax to re set any contamination that may have started to build. Absolutely no cleaning needed can just pop off and re wax and yeehaa. This system gets more people immersive waxing that would have otherwise just stayed with drip lubricant only, which at some point will need cleaning maintenance. A rewax is the easiest, most cost effective and effective clean one can do - so it is a brilliant product / system indeed. Very popular with many zfc customers / cyclists.
I’m watching all your videos and l’m begginning with chain waxing. Today I had my first experience, I bought a slow cooker and Silca wax. The slow cooker (set al low temperature) was very slow, after 90 minutes only half the wax was liquid, and temperature was 60 degrees (celsius). So I did something else, but when I measured the temperature again after few hours the temperature was 120 degrees. No smoke and no other problem, but I’m a bit worried … is my new wax still ok? Should I rewax my chain?
hey 4 lumi! sorry delay reply i nearly missed it! And damn that sounds like an interesting slow cooker. Most will take about 45 mins to an hour to melt a bag of wax, on low, with lid off - that is the safe way as can never over heat. 120 for a short ish time is likely ok. If wax cools to a white, or grey (any shade) - then its groovy. If there is a yellow tinge to the white or light grey - then its been damaged. Ít is really unusual for a slow cooker to act like that though, normally if it is taking so long to melt, the energy on that setting is very low, and so it isnt going to overheat it. The main probs arise when people try to hurry up and put on high with lid on etc and dont set a timer. It may be worth looking at an instant pot if budget extends - not sure how much they are where you are. I have slow cooker for some of my own waxing and also instant pot for other - the instant pot i put it on slow cook setting, set the temp, and it gets to 90dg in about 15 mins and just stays there. cost me $90 from kogan for a two pot in one unit, been going groovy fo over 3 years of heavy use now. But yeah, for 99% of waxers, slow cooker is problem free, yours sounds.... different!
Hey there - need to no, recommended = yes. You can add an immersive wax compatible drip lubricant over the top - but all the abrasive crap brought deep into chain from water will still be in there, just with more lube over the top. Post wet ride you have to pay the piper one of two ways - with a small amount of time to reset contamination in the chain, or with friction and wear. Simply re waxing is the fastest way to reset chain post a wet harsh conditions ride. Consider you had no seals on your wheel and bottom bracket bearings, and you went for a wet muddy ride. Would you just leave them and thing all is cool? or would you think wow they are running like shit, being rapidly damaged, i should flush clean them and re grease them? It is like that for your chain, except much worse due to it being even more exposed, and doing SO MUCH more mechanical work. And it will take other components out with it. What do you do at the moment?
I have sram x01 chain with about 300 kms on it with peaty's all weather lube. today i did like 5 acetone baths for chain until the liquid was crystal clear with nothing inside. melted mspeedwax for about 30 mins, put my chain in it for 30 mins and swished it around every few mins. after it dried, i feel like wax didn't stick to the chain very good, on the outer wall one simple scratch with my nail is enough to remove the wax. Did i do something wrong or is it supposed to work like that? also it didn't take a lot of strength to break links loose.
Hey godspeed - no you can always easily scrape or scratch excess wax off the outside - this is not the same as two wax surfaces inside the chain sliding against each other - and also the wax layer left after break in an excess pressed out is very thin - you dont have this big visual wax coating in there. If the chain runs silky smooth for hours (how hours depends on load, amount of dust, dust type) - it is hard to give an average for offroad - for me - sram chains - wax coating is generally smooth and lovely for at least 6 hours riding. if sounds and feels very dry very quickly - ie you get a sort of zzzz, zzzzz, zzzzz, zzzzz, dry sound and feel on pedal strokes, and or its starts squeaking especially on high chain line angles after a short period - then you may have to worry re did the wax bond. Acetone is a great finish prep, i am not sure how well it dissolves X product - but it should be all groovy. Do some riding and all will be clear! :)
I would recommend switching out the acetone for denatured alcohol, and depending on where you are in the world, 91-99% isopropyl/isopropanol alcohol. Denat alcohol and especially isopropanol are more effective solvents for initial cleans, final cleans, and even for general chain factory grease cleaning. Ethyl acetate would be best, but that is not easily available for consumers.
Would a 500ml Pot be big enough? There are dual wax warmers available for hair waxing studios. They can heat up to 105 celsius. But I am not sure, if they are big enough. However, your first pot at the end of video seems little, too.
No they are too small, their diameter is so small you cannot really get a chain in there on a swisher tool and if you made one that did fit, you wouldnt get a very good swishing. 1.5l is as small as you want to go. I tried a 1l beauty salon wax pot but that was also too small.
Hello Subscribers, We have taken down the previous Episode 7 and have added your Questions and Answers below to this REVISED Episode 7 with Subtitles of the Questions. Q: Can you use Klean Strip Paint Thinner instead of just mineral spirits? edit: just checked out ep 6 and this is semi answered, i think i will be fine as according to its SAS it has Mineral spirits and something else called Trimethylbenzenes Q: How do you store wax after waxing until the next waxing? A: Just turn pot off. wax will cool to a solid mass. pop chain on and turn pot on to melt for next waxing. Q: Do you do test on the different manufacturers chains? Would be great no. A: Not control test as no time (the main test is very time intensive and ZFC is booked solid with lubricant tests) but from many years of experience both myself and customer - wax adheres very well (stays silky smooth for long period) to YBN / Campy / Sram / - all speeds, and shimano 12spd. Fairly poor adherence to shimano 11spd and very poor to shimano 10spd (chains start to feel and sound dry much more quickly). Very poor adherence to KMC chains - whatever coating they use tends to shuck off quite a number of lubricants - hence we see huge variance in kmc chain lifespan depending on customers lubricant choice and whether the chain repelled lubricant choice or not. Fast chains, but can be a bit of gamble re lifepsan and experience. Q :If you are using SS drip between do you clean chain in boiling water before you wax again? Or do you just put it in the wax and not worry about possibly more contamination? A: No just re wax it is designed to be used as such. Only boiling water rinse post a proper wet ride. Q: Do you have to clean previously waxed chain first in water and dry before relaxing or I thought I heard you say just take chain off and put it in and let old wax melt off while wax is heating up? A: No cleaning, just put on pot and re-wax - putting on wax as it melts allows chain to heat up with wax and old coating melt off
Does the the service intervals (e.g: 300 km rewax) change if I have a lot of altitude gain in my rides? If yes how much? Riding uphill I still pedal hard but don't rack up as many kms so I assume it has some influence on the service/rewax interval?
the higher the power, the shorter the treatment lifespan for any lubricant. But whats your average - i assume you come back down the hill too which is kms clocking up without much power. You will know if need to do before 300km as chain will go from silky smooth to feeling and sounding very dry. All such guides are just guides, no two rides are remotely the same, one person may cruise the flats at 150w. Another may be a 90kg powerhouse with a 420w ftp constantly smashing high intensity intervals etc - so the guides kinda pitch to the middle, and then one gets to know from their own riding pretty quickly once start using
Overall immersive waxing with top wax will save some issues that can occur with liquid lubricants that can suffer from much lower viscosity increasing drag (and depending on temp of application, can hurt penetration to pin). A solid lubricant is still a solid lubricant. In very cold it MAY get more brittle and so MAY suffer a shorter treatment lifespan vs perfect conditions, but 0 to 5dg doest seem to be an issue - proper snow roads can reduce treatment lifespan.
If cassette is used and contaminated with previous dirty drip lubricant - it should cleaned - any way that you like is fine as long as its clean. If you are waxing, then no you dont need to clean cassette - caveat - that is assuming using a top wax like mspeedwax or hot melt (or others that may exist that i havent tested yet). If you are using a cheap / DIY wax that has high mineral oil content (ie candles, cheap paraffin) then you will get too much gunk build up over time which needs to be maintained or shifting goes downhill badly. Top immersive waxes, unlike many gritty drip lubricants, the small amount of excess wax left on cassette / chain ring teeth is actually very wear protective, so a small amount of build up is perfect.
For things like dry road riding, there just really isnt the contaminents for the hot water to remove. Hot water isnt a deep clean it is a surface level clean great for getting rid of bulk of contamination post a heavily contaminated ride. It really wont do anything tangible for normal dry rides, and the problem we see for say dry road riders doing every time is that things like drying properly tends to get short thrifted, and wet chains going into wax every time, which seems to have a negative affect. Probably about 10 times a year i will get an email from a waxer who is getting pretty average lifespan out of chain (ie 3000 to 5000km) instead of circa 10,000km, and they are dry road riders. 9 times out of 10 we find they are boiling water rinsing every time. So it really is not a great path to do when a) it is just going to waste time and electricity anyway - it not only offers no benefit but may well be a negative benefit - and b) there are other way better options to increase wax such as two pot method demonstrated at 1hr 39 mark - which again even for dry offroad dusty riding is going to be vasty superior vs boiling water overall. Boiling water should be kept for post proper wet rides where a lot of crap has been transported in deep.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks, I'm just migrating back to MSW from Absolute after getting only 200kms before squeaking chains, so wanting to maximise the benefits. I thought almost dry chains ok as the hot wax should evaporate any residual, is this not the case/your experience?
@@martywells Yes something is up with Ab graphenwax. it tested pretty poorly, yet graphen lube is pretty amazing (just a bit hard to use and expensive). But graphen lube is like $220 for 140ml, and graphen wax is like $45 for 320g. Hot wax X with graphene for 300g is RRp $285. My guess is that there is absolutely F all graphene in graphen wax vs graphen lube. Both the performance (and i think the base wax is poor as well, going for this pliable wax) and the pricing vs other graphen waxes makes no sense. I could be wrong, but personally i believe graphen wax the black is mostly colouring, not graphene. And it does to a point, but not fully. Msw have done a bunch of testing re waxing wet chains and found water in the wax still after cooling. So recommendation post boiling water flush rinses is to ensure dry chain well (hair dryer makes quick work).
Hey corey sorry delay reply! - yes indeed you can, if you can afford it, at the moment graphen lube is the longest lasting in extreme conditions tested BUT remember graphen lube does have significant penetration issues - so you results over the top of a solid wax will differ vs a chain immersively prepped with graphen lube where it is graphen lube deep inside chain and not solid wax. Msw is extremely good and graphen lube outer lay MAY / should help it last longer than sans the graphen lube but this hasnt been control tested to confirm / see how much difference it makes. If i was me and it was a key event and i needed to go flag to flag and i wasnt 100% that msw would make it, i would immersive prep an AB graphen chain.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Sounds like I might just go with NFS over MSW because of the length and water crossings. Obv I'll have to overhaul the chain after, but think it should last the distance.
Hey PPP - the general best recommendation for chain wear is to replace the chain when it is ""0.5%" worn, as an elongation wear measure. Ie if your chain was intially 104 links long, at 12.7mm per link, total length of chain new should be 104 x 12.7mm = 1320.8mm. If chain wear is such that this length has increased by 0.5%, then 1320.8 x 1.005 = 1327.4mm - so if the chain wears to basically 7mm longer - that is 0.5%, and it should be replaced before it starts rapidly eating out cassette and chain ring teeth to match its length. Drop in chain checkers make measuring this wear much easier vs doing the above. 20% wear thus means 20% of the 0.5% wear allowance. So depending on how you are measuring, that will calc out to X number. Ie if you are measuring as span of 10 links of chain, rounding down you have about 0.5mm of wear to = 0.5% wear, 20% of the recommended 0.5% wear would be 0.1mm, being 20% of the 0.5mm wear allowance for that length span.
After hours of research, biggest qualm for me is quick links. It's not taking chain on and off...seems like no big deal. Have read a lot of the re-usable links are not as good with 1x setups, and often skip on smaller 10 or 11 tooth cogs. To me, this isn't worth it if having to continuously purchase new links all the time. They come with $$, packaging, and environmental cost too...if churning through them every time you need to change and re-set the chain. Do people have a favorite link that they use for mullet 1x gravel setups? One that seems to really last for multiple installs and inspires confidence?? Seems to me this is a much, much, bigger issue than setting up a pot every so often. Those quick links are not cheap...and I'd really rather not feel like I'm going to snap a chain by re-using them. Really think a deep dive into all quick links on market, is desperately needed !!!
Hey brian - i havent heard of links skipping on 10 or 11t cogs. No one can physically tell a difference between a re useable link or officially single use link, and what difference there may be will be in the pin locking channel, it will have zilcho to do with how the chain runs on cogs - the rollers and everything are obviously still in the exact same place. I have a master link FAQ guide in instructions tab that steps through options for what to do re single use links that will have you sorted and onto what works best for you. It really isnt that big an issue as it may seem. most re use single use links circa 5 times - i know of all of one failure in all these years of being a pretty prolific immersive wax retailer, with countless gravel and mtb waxers - including of course myself. IF not comfortable re using then wax, re lube next 5 lubes with say silca ss drip or ufo drip, then re wax to reset any contamination, and use a new link. This will still be for most around 1000km+ of offroad riding before needing new link, and the extremely low wear of this approach still WAAAYYY covers cost of links with still hundreds of bucks per year typically saved vs their previous option. Easy easy :)
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Found your FAQ sheet a few weeks back. Thanks! Took the plunge with YBN 11 speed links and Silca Super Secret (immersion) on my gravel bike. Blown away at how clean it runs (also shocked at how long the treatment lasts). Super clean after a bunch of rides on forest service roads / single track in Virginia, USA. I think I'll become more and more comfortable re-using links as I get more miles in on the system. Sort of a thing where more first hand experience = more confidence. Shimano link tool seems to be the best for install / removal. Thanks for all of the resources you put out....my road bike is next to convert to waxing when chain needs to be changed ! (skipping idea came from reading Amazon reviews on the YBNs and Connex. I was surprised at how many people reported problems...seemed like more than there would otherwise be if it was simply an installation problem, or people not installing correctly). That being said...I should know that reviews of diy home mechanics not the best resource for how things will go in the real world !! No problems at all with YBN links thus far...
@@briancase_rideaperture thanks for taking the time to write in the feedback brian! yes a top chain coating lube or wax is the best for offroad for sure vs wet lubes so great choice. And yes if it was in relation to wippermann connex links, that happens a lot - they are easy to install upside down which will cause it to jump in small cogs as the curve of the link is facing the wrong way to bend around the cassette. It is not that obvious on install - i used to stock but stopped as they just didnt click with too many customers - and they are so expensive that a pack of links re used 5x works better overall anyway vs installing upside down and then going thunk thunk thunk for an entire gran fondo. Of which that happened more than you would think! Lately i have seen them for 39.90 each for an 11spd link, which is nuts.
With contaminants in the wax, when the wax has solidified, can you simply scrape off the dirty base layer and use the top layer until it too gets dirty? In the interest of marginal gain of course... 🤓
Doing a layer would remove a lot of wax to get rid of contaminants. SOme use a coffee cup and cut off the bottom half cm ish, or a bbq pushed into a cone and cut off the tip. Note though you will also lose some of your friction modifier as that will start to settle to bottom as well as contamination.
@@martywells you can, you are just removing a lot of wax to get rid of some contamination, and you are removing a lot of the friction modifier as well. cutting off a tip or small layer is going to be just as effective at removing the contamination and losing less wax and hopefully less modifier. Again for maximising (doubling) wax lifespan two pot system is overall most efficient and effective (1hr 39 min mark)
I wanted to wax so much but I live in a country where it is impossible to bring those brands wax even if I can bring them the price will be 3X. Like the silca 500gm packet will cost me 100 Dollar with everything. I really wanted to go for DIY , watched the whole video but at the ended got broken heart.
Hi Mahabub! Yes apologies I am a bit harsh on diy waxing as have lost way too many hours of my life fixing DIY waxing jobs gone waaaayyyy wrong. The information pumped out for diy waxing is typically pretty horrendous. Whilst your diy wax will not match msw / hot melt etc, you can still well out do many many bottled lubricants with immersive paraffin waxing. Key is just get true food grade paraffin (gulf canning wax). Try to get a reputable brand from a reputable seller - ie you will often get what you pay for, if you buy supposed food grade wax from alibaba at a cheap price, it is as likely to be food grade as the genuine rolex for $100. Skip the additives, just go high quality paraffin base - thats the key for DIY waxing - 99.9% of diy waxers use a cheap wax, so no matter what they add, if the base is crap, the DIY waxing is crap (and thats not taking into account those adding paraffin oil, lanolin, beeswax, olive oil, and various other things to make my life more interesting :))
Don't despair and believe everything that is said. oz cycle has proven in his videos that diy wax is a great way to go. Just look for a video called "Is this the ultimate bicycle chain lube?". The comparison is not the most scientific one, but at least it shows that diy is nowhere worse than msw.
Ceramic Speeds R&D lab, they are the only efficiency testing i can trust (continued on the gold standard process pioneered by jason smith at ceramic speed). All other test labs to date results have been all over the place.
Not really - sorry im still not super clear sometimes - firstly you should try to minimise watering your chain. it is just like you dont want to water your bearings either, but your bearings are less exposed and have seals. You can water your chain when you rinse your mtb, it is just less optimal than not watering your chain. If you havent removed surface dust first with an alcohol + soft cloth wipe, you risk washing abrasive contamination from surface to inside chain. it may be a very small amount - but multiple a very small amount by millions of articulations under load - a small integer multiplied by millions still adds up to something over time. If waxing / wax drip lubricant - and wetted, and then left for a day or so - rollers MAY start to oxidise - so just make sure wipe chain dry, and or simply add a quick light top up of immersive wax compatible lubricant to protect until next re wax. Many, many many mtb and gravel riders use combo approach - so wax, re lube with ss drip or ufo drip next 3 to 5 re lubes, then re wax to reset any contamination starting to build. This takes a lot of pressure off re doing a re wax every re lube, easy to keep chain protected etc, and there is just no easier, cleaner and cheaper way to keep chain super clean and low friction / wear than just doing a re wax to reset vs doing a solvent flush clean if not waxing. Hope that helps make sense!
3 года назад+2
This is to long for this format (youtube) If you split it up and answered 1-2 questions in each video (of 5-10 min) with the question in the title. you would drive a lot more engagement. Also people would be able to find what they are looking for.
Yes apologies i couldnt take that approach as then i would somehow have to remember what questions is in what episode. I get just so, so, so many questions every night from all over the world on waxing, i just had to get the updated FAQ document up and the FAQ vid up, and people need to go through one or the other first before sending in a waxing question. Waxing is actually a very small part of what ZFC does, and whilst being more and more synonymous with immersive waxing is great as more people will get correct info from ZFC vs wacky info from so many other channels - i have just had to take some measures to be able to direct waxing Q's to here or document first otherwise all i would do all day every day is answer questions on immersive waxing from around the world. People can work though when driving / walking dog / housework etc. I listen to a lot of technical podcasts that are 2 to 3 hours long, but it doesnt matter as every day i have vacuuming / cleaning / dog walking to do and its a great way to make housework one of my most fun times of the day hahahaha
Just stick it on while going for a solo ride or maybe just before bed. I suspect nightmares of giant pots of melted wax might ensue however so beware of the latter.
3 года назад+1
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Podcast format would perhaps be better suited for this long durations, then you (me) could listen during long rides. I always listen to podcasts anyway. But streaming video on the go is less then ideal.
@ yep i understand it may not be suitable for everyone, which is why also have the FAQ guide on website and one can just scroll to applicable question. I wont have time resources to also do podcast, Hopefully most can simply listen too whilst doing easy jobs / commute etc - i listen to a ton of nerdy interest podcasts on oh so many things that now vacuuming and mopping is one of my favourite jobs hahahaha. Ah i remember when housework was such a chore, now it is a grand ol time of catching up on whats happening on so many fun topics from cycling, to batteries to Ev's to stocks to global news to clean technica to a stack of cycling and mtb - and these are a mix of podcast and you tube, i often have you tube playing through headset whilst doing housework and manual zfc work like chain prep. If you do any housework, in a few days of vacuuming and cleaning you will get through no probs, if you dont do any housework, i would guess you are in a minority!! Who does your vacuuming, mopping, washing, putting clothes away, dishes and oh so much more - should have plenty of previously boring chores that are now you rippa time to keep up to date on fun stuff :)
Ah thankyou - i will try to remember that for next time! I wish i could remember who to blame where i picked up pronouncing the e. I bet it was from my kitchen rules that the superwife loves hahahaha
Some Questions:
00:00 Introduction
03:55 Can I use a Rice Cooker?
06:00 Can I use a instant pot?
08:00 Can I do it in a pot on my stove with a thermometer?
09:28 What about the silca bags?
12:13 What is the ideal Wax temperature?
14:20 Should I put the full bag of wax or half a bag?
17:00 Two pot system
19:00 Rewax early with 2 chains
22:32 Rewax to often, is it a hassle?
24:33 Should I clean my chain before rewaxing?
27:32 Do I need to clean the chain with hot water after every wet ride?
31:04 I ride a lot in wet conditions, is waxing suitable for this conditions?
36:12 What to do when I cant rewax the chain after a wet ride?
40:16 Should I remove my wax chain if I am going to wash my bike?
42:00 Wax master link?
43:00 Can i reuse my links?
49:00 What link for what chain
54:40 When to change my WAX?
56:00 How do I change my wax?
1:00:25 How do i know the wax is damaged?
1:01:25 Wax is toxic?
1:02:00 I switched to wax and noticed some rust in the cassette
1:04:00 Tips for bikepacking
1:15:00 Why my local bike shop says waxing is not good?
1:20:00 How to minimize wax build up?
1:23:00 How to prep my chain for Waxing?
1:23:28 I am sure i prep my chain correctly but something is feeling weird or noisy
legend thanks Jorge!!!!
Thank you!!
3:38
😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
In my opinion the best way to keep such a long video engaging is to use time stamps, marking each of the questions.
Great topic, and I hope you get the engagement it deserves.
i would have to agree, great video, I'm slowly digesting it, but timestamps or breaking it up into a playlist of smaller videos would make it a lot easier to peruse. Kind of a common theme on this channel, you should get an editor or someone that can distill these long-format talks into bite size consumable pieces
I've now tried immersive waxing of my chain for the first time, and can attest to the simplicity and effectiveness of it. I bought a cheap slow cooker - the brand Adam suggests (but I could only get a 3 litre capacity one, not the 1.5 litre size he mentions, which doesn't seem to be made anymore). I bought some Molten Speed Wax (2 units = 4 pucks), melted the pucks into the cooker, and let it cool overnight as the first step (but I could have added my chain once they had all melted). Next, I removed my chain, put it on top of my wax, turned on the slow cooker, and let the chain melt into the wax (threaded onto a swisher tool). Simple! As Adam suggests, you can go off and do something else while it melts. Once melted, and the chain is hung up to dry, it only takes 15 minutes for it to go solid - ready to place on the chain. As Adam says, the total labour time is minimal - chain off, onto wax, then once melted (nothing you need to do), hang up to dry; it's nothing. I've now ridden 147 km with my waxed chain, and it still looks and feels great. I showed a local bike shop how clean it was, and they were amazed - given all my riding had been on a gritty trail. I've also found the gears change more smoothly than when using a drip-on lube. Hardly anything comes off the chain when giving it a wipe after a ride compared to when I used a drip-on lube. Three cheers for Adam and ZFC - he brings science, not hype or marketing - to what is best for chain maintenance, performance, and longevity. Because he's not trying to market his own product (he doesn't have one), I'm completely satisfied that his testing is un-biased. Also, you can tell he is genuine in trying to get out the the cycling world what really is best, objectively. He's made lots of videos and guide documents not for his benefit, but for all the cyclists out there. I hope that ZFC becomes a 'household name' in the world of cycling not just here in Oz, but internationally - for everyone's benefit.
I scrape a little wax from the bottom of the wax puck from the crockpot. This removes the heavy contamination from the wax for the next hot wax.
Thanks for the great video Zero friction cycling, I've been waxing my sram axs flat top chain's for about 12 month's using the DIY paraffin wax/PTFE method and after watching this video I'm going to ditch that as I have purchased the silca wax and drip wax as well. I'm looking forward to giving this stuff a go as you rate it pretty highly.
IMO hot waxing is amazing, your drive train part's last so much longer as well as the chain and it's also nice to be able to fix a puncture and not have your hands covered in black grime 🙂.
Thanks Jeremy! yes depending on what you used as base wax previously - DIY waxing can vary a fair bit - but it is definitely going to be great to have you off a blend that is using PTFE, we really want to move away from that. And ha yes immersive waxing really is king, and it really is a lot lot easier than it is often touted - going by wax sales i think the message is getting through! :)
I use the double boil method in a small pot on my electric stove, and a large mason jar to contain the parafin/PTFE mix. I use a cooking thermometer to carefully monitor temps. Place 1 pound of parafin in large mason jar. Place jar in medium size pot of warm water. Heat on medium - low heat on electric stove for 30 min or so untill wax melts. Water begins to bubble at 212F, dont let it get that hot. Keep it around 190-200F. I also use a neodymium (rare earth element) magnet on a butter knife to collect metallic particles from the parafin. Just stir the melted wax with the magnet for a minute or two it will turn black from collecting the particles. Wipe the magnet with a paper towel, and repeat a couple times. Make sure to remove the magnet when you immerse the chain.
wow this episode was a masterpiece. I am a beginner to cycling and maintenance and find it fascinating. sometimes it's really nice to hear things multiple times from slightly different angles. I know you take some heat for being long winded / rambley, but I truly appreciate it and learn a lot. what a world this would be if everyone cared about their craft this much!
For the "Two Pot System Like a Boss" - what do you think of this idea: first pot is lab/food grade paraffin with a "grit guard" (to raise the chain, and let the grit fall through), and the second pot can be your wax of choice (Silca Super Secret, MSpeedwax). The object is two fold - use less expensive on the first pot, and secondly, the lab grade paraffin is clear (the tungsten disulfide really makes it dark), so you can see better how contaminated the first pot is.
Hey Rachominator - yep that is going to be ok, but it will really only be a short term thing overall, as once you have done circa 30 re waxes - it is recommended pot two move over to be pot one wax, and fresh bag into pot two. All up this = around 60 re waxes per bag of wax, which is A LONG LONG TIME - making the cost of wax almost negligeable as a lubricant cost. And once you have that system going, you are simply just buying one new lot of wax every VERY LONG TIME, and both pots have the super wax in them. But as a start, no real issue with using Gulf canning wax or similar- just note that being able to see more into the wax wont really help you with anything - the system will just do what it does. Also note that whilst genuine lab grade / food grade paraffin is good - there are SO MANY grades re how hard or soft the wax is - too soft is not great, too hard is not great - it will not be same as msw or hot melt. Likely the very low amount of different base will not negatively impact the base wax over time, but it is possible it may a little bit if the base is notably harder or softer after many re waxes from pot 1 to pot 2. I personally would not worry / stress re that, just flagging it MAY happen, and it MAY impact treatment longevity etc - but that would be about it, it wouldnt be a major issue even in worst case - just a possible treatments may not last as long over time.
@1:26:57 its finally getting really interesting. You should do a dedicated video about that.
But its been a hard time for me getting that far. I am interested in this topic but I literally fell asleep after about 30 minutes.
I really appreciate your work. I'd like to see some shorter videos from your lab about your testing methods, preparations, worn chains, showing and explaning your results, ...
here is my prewax prep - wipe waxed chain with rag to get off surface contaminates....then I "bake", or preheat chain on low in toaster oven before redipping! this is great as it preheats the chain (good for wicking fresh wax back into roller/pins) and the old wax runs out, i suspect this is similar to the boiling water method, but without the risk of getting moisture stuck in chain.
also I use a heated ultrasonic pot as my wax pot....15 mins with the ultrasonic feature on, 15mins of the chain just sitting (still) in the wax, total time in wax 30mins.
Great video. Fantastic info. Just waxed two new chains I'll be riding with from now on. Very excited. Thanks again. Will share this video with friends and family.
I have been hot waxing for 7 years now and I would never go back.
I do most of my training indoor:
-is it a good option to have one chain for my home trainer and an other one for outside?
-can I extend the time between two waxing if I just run indoor? I imagine that there is less contamination than outside
unless you do very high miles one chain should still be fine - treatment lifespan for indoors is affected not so much by contamination as there should be hardly any, but by your riding type. one person might do a lot of z2 on zwift. another might only do indoors for high intensity intervals or racing. And there can tend to be no "Free" kms - ie when i ride up Mount Lofty here - i could do 40 minutes at 250 to 280w, then get 10km of very low power as i zoom along downhill. On indoors after 40 mins at X power, that is normally followed by another block of time at power etc vs free kms.
So just be guided by how long a treatment is lasting, how often you are needing to re wax, and if its frequently then a second chain on rotation is handy for some, or using a compatible wax drip to top up between waxings (like ufo drip etc).
About re-using master links : I re-wax the chain and re-fit the (unwaxed) master link, then if I can disassemble the fitted master link by hand then it goes in the bin. If I can't disassemble it by hand, it stays. Not saying that approach is right for everybody but it stops me worrying.
Hi Adam. Thanks so much for all your immersive wax teaching. Is the 2 pot method superior to the boiling water rinse? I’m talking pretty muddy mtb rides. Chain off even after a 2 hour ride. I’m thinking boiling water rinse (3 x500ml baths. I use an old pan on the stove to keep the water good and hot) would win that competition.
Hmm. Couod keeping the water boiling in my pan damage the wax that’s left behind on the chain after rinsing?
How about cleaning the cassette and chainring?
Overall yes. If its wet offroad ride, i will normally still do one quick boiling water rinse at least as oh many so much crud is easily washed out, it is still best to save all that going into pot one as its so easy to do.
And no, wax has to get a a good bit hotter than 100 to damage. it is possible the chain might really heat up more sitting on the bottom, but overall it will be a non issue, so little wax will be left in the chain so even if damaged, it is too little to affect anything.
Cassette i normally find is clean enough just washing the bike post wet offroad rides, otherwise literally just a quick go over with a very stiff nylon brush and done. Thankfully unlike wet lubes / drip lubes - wax chains being solid lubricant - theres is rarely anything on cassette to have to worry about cleaning!
Thank you guys for amazing info, waxing has been lifechanging for me, it is just great. Do you have some test about new Flowerpower Wax? Is it good to use as wax top of in long events?
Thanks so much for the lovely feedback Martin! Waxing really is the best. Flower power is a great product, i am really pleased to see such products like this come to market, such and enviro friendly and super low wear drip lubricant, and at a great price point. However, it is really going to be a top option for those who are not waxing. Testing on this front will be a bit ongoing, but to date it is showing that it is not that cross compatible with the top immersive waxes of mspeedwax or hot melt. It is simply a very different wax base, the sunflower seed base wax just doesnt really bond / work well with highly refined paraffin base waxes. It actually runs with fairly oily feel - which makes it very smooth when used as a stand alone product - but testing using with msw or hot melt - if applied over the wax, the treatments start to sound and feel dry relatively early, and next re waxes are not quite the same -- paraffin bond to chain is definitely affected. So silca ss drip, ufo drip, or tru tension tungsten all weather remain the top recommendations for use in conjunction with immersive waxing, Flower power is really a great option for those who are not going to go immersive waxing path.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Amazing, thank you so much for superb answer, everything i needed to know. Yeah Flower power look good because of price point. Iam not planing to stop waxing with my MSW so i will just bite it and buy bottle of UFO drip. I will use it just once or twice per year so it will last me a long time. Thank you for your work.
Watching all of these videos convinced me to start immersive waxing my chain, which I did for the first time yesterday. It's so simple that there was no need for me to have been intimidated all of these years. The only thing I may have to do differently from Adam's instructions is put my slow cooker on high, rather than low. It's rated at 120 watts max. I only put in half a bag of Silca's wax and it took just under 90 minutes to completely melt, and that was with it covered. I'll test it on high next time but I don't know if that only affects the top temperature or it will also decrease the melting time as well. The Molten swisher was a great buy and made everything very easy. I definitely like it better than the bent wire hanger tool I made first. Can't wait to ride with this chain for the first time. Thanks Adam.
beauty, yes some slow cookers are less power than others. IF you need faster melt time then yes on high, lid on, just set a timer for say 45mins. Many slow cookers if left on high can get wax to over 140dg c given some hours to do so, and that will kill the wax. On low, lid off, just go do fun stuff and come back whenever and swish - that way if you forget, no matter for how long, wax is will be perfect. People sometimes forget and leave on overnight, and so you just want to make sure that if you forget about it, you are not going to cook the wax (above about 110 the long chain molecules of the paraffin begin to break down, killing its lubricity).
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks as always Adam. What you said makes a lot of sense.
Appreciate all the great info I will be doing my first wax in a few days.
In one of the guides it does two mineral turp soaks overnight while another one does the first soak for 15minutes. I might be overthinking it, but does it matter which one I go with. I will be using a new Sram chain.
Hey panda! thanks for feedback and yes there was a bit of change - i initially had overnight which just makes the following baths easy especially for tough greases like srams, and this is safe with mineral turpentine / white spirits - however some degreasers / other solvents may cause hydrogen embrittlement - and so the soak time was reduced to 15 mins (which is still perfectly effective, you may just want to do a bit more agitating / mini soak on sram chains on following baths) to ensure that if someone was following the guide but did not have access to mineral turps and used something else instead, the chain will still be safe (ish - it is recommended to ensure not to use degreasers or solvents that may cause hydrogen embrittlement). Hope that helps!
Thank you so much for the detailed reply. You are a legend! I'll go with the overnight soaks for peace of mind of a thorough clean since I have mineral turpentine.
Can you use an ultrasonic cleaner at 80 degrees to wax? The Silca says they do it; though most good cleaners reach only 80c. Love your videos, thank you for explaining everything so clearly!🙏🏻👍🏻
Thanks Derek - And yes you can indeed as long as ultrasonic goes to 80dg - if you dont have temp, heat wax in pot first, but note thats all getting a bit faffy if your US doesnt have temp. And also note that the VAST MAJORITY of home ultrasonics will lack the power to do anything that effective with wax, it is too low viscosity for cavitation for most. Some powerful ones may do something, but again you need to degas run etc to try. If you US is like 50w ultrasonic power (tested via power meter consumption plug, not claimed power) - then i wouldnt bother - 100w +, maybe worth a shot if you really want to tinker.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thank you so much for the reply! 🙏🏻 Now that I know that I’m going stick with the 2 pot like a boss. I’m just going to carefully use a multi cooker in the slow cooker setting, and get a second liner. They are called instant pot in the US and the 3qt size are wider than a small slow cooker at the bottom; they also come with a steamer tray that will lift the bottom of pot 1. Thanks again!
Thank you again for your videos 🙏🏻 To change wax brands from Silca to Molten, can you just throw the Silca out of the pot and put the chain in the new Molten one?
Yes - they are very very compatible with each other, the one will not negatively contaminate the other at all.
I would buy a Molten Speed Wax, but in Brazil we dont have access to such products, so my only option is to DIY.
are you sure mspeedwax dont ship to brazil?
@@zerofrictioncycling992 I could buy, but shipping and taxes would raise the price to something like $120. I followed all your tips, made my food grade wax, results are great! Thank you so much. I am using the KMC Digital Checker, my XT chain is at 0.12 with 2300km. Great results for a MTB.
One question, if I am doing 2 chains at the same time in the pot, it means I could do 15 rewaxes in total from one bag of silca hot melt, or it would be also 30 rewaxes like if I am doing only one chain? Thanks for the great job you guys are doing!!
hey! yes correct, each chain being waxed is one wax. And thanks!
@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks!!! I did not get the youtube notification and I emailed you a similar question, now it is clear. I asked you also about chain preparation in that email, I appreciate if you let me know your usual workflow when it comes to preparing various chains for different bikes. It amazes me the amount of effort you put in this ZFC project, and how all this knowledge and years of testing/experience is so useful for people like me just who are just starting to do immersive waxing ⛓️ regards
If I'm going to put 2 chains in the same jar for the mineral spirits and then the denatured alcohol, do I need to double the amount of mineral spirits and denatured alcohol? I'm assuming the answer is yes but I just wanted to double check.
Hey Adam - great work, appreciated and such invaluable 'quality' source of info as I start considering going the Waxing route..!
Can I ask - what is the make/model of the multi cooker you have showing here? I can't find anything near similar...I like the shape, as opposed the typical round Instantpots etc, as I reckon it would be easier to wax at least a couple of chains simultaneously and I also noted you mention on another video re you setting the exact temp at 90º...not many of the multicookers seem to offer set temps in slow cooking modes etc, only when on Roast and so on....
Thanks in advance....(and I'll also be in touch soon via email to ZFC as I'd like to purchase a few things and also have a couple of Q's that may not be covered in FAQ - like how to intermediate bike clean and dealing with Oz red dust here in WA when riding Gravel..!)
Steve
Thanks steve! That one is a kambrook - had it for so long, i dont think they do t hat model anymore - it seems to be superseeded by this one but i think its probably the same - kambrook.com.au/products/temp-control-slow-cooker?variant=32001082556529
Another one that goes in and out of stock a bit but is really handy is this one from kogan - www.kogan.com/nz/buy/kogan-12-1-rice-cooker-multi-cooker/
Kogan are often cheap stuff but again i have been hammering this one for years (just choose manual and set temp) and the two pots are very handy - can easily do 3 chains per pot if you put enough wax in.
And yes have a look also at the chain maintenance guide - that may have you covered re how to handle the dust there- if not for sure zing an email through and i do my best to answer speedily!
zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/chain-maintenance-guide-v5.pdf
Hey Adam - Thanks, you’re a star! I’ll look then up a bit later and see what’s around….yes, I did notice what looked like a two-pot model on your bench as well and wondered about its usefulness as well…!
About to head out soon for small early evening ride, no doubt get the Grevil caked in dust again..! 🙁
Will sure be in touch soon re some purchases and Q’s etc….Cheers mate 👍
Regarding commuting: If riding in wet conditions in the morning and then returning to bike for riding home maybe 9 h later, and do the re-waxing at home, is this time window regarded as risky regarding oxidation? Any suggestions otherwise to solve the issue of having a wet chain in the workplace during the day? (Could be a hazzle to remove the chain and clean it at work )
kind regards/ Mattias
Hey mattias sorry delay reply, i trying to get onto comments faster! (busy! :)). Mostly it is fine, but not always depending on chain roller metal, salted roads or not etc. I would say first try it (just wipe chain with microfibre cloth at work). If you do notice some spotting a) dont panic it is just cosmetic, all the action happens inside chain and that starts to oxidise many many days later as that has poor air exposure b) take some ss drip or tru tension tungsten all weather to work and and put a quick coating on (back pedal, drip on, 10 secs, done). They are fully immersive waxing compatible so great to use with I.W for those that need to.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks for a great answer. I was thinking about drip att work. We will see how it goes this fall 👍🏼
I'm totally new in waxing and want to buy the first pack of wax. I thought about buying Silca wax and a slow cooker. A complete new drive train waits for cleaning and waxing. But I've one big question I can't answer with reading the faq and the waxing guide on zfc. Will I also need the liquid silca stuff? And if yes when? Or will I only need to wax the chain in "the hot tup" every ~250km? Looking forward for an answer.
Hey betty, need to use liquid wax = no. Handy for many = yes. Ie rather than every re lube at circa 300km be a re wax, it can take the pressure off many to re lube as needed with silca ss drip or ufo drip , then re wax to re set any contamination starting to build. with those immersive wax compatible products no cleaning is needed at all before waxing again, just re wax. So this for say most road riders means they only do a re wax every approx 1000km, and just using a wax drip lubricant in between. Immersive waxing all the time will always be the absolutely lowest wear path, but due to the high contamination resistance of these wax drip lubricants - the combo approach keeps you in a very good ballpark of that, but without the pressure of every re lube being a re wax.
Check these two vids next coffee, they will really decide for you if waxing & or combo approach is right for you;
ruclips.net/video/TwXdeOBXlBQ/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/kVzhm-yTojk/видео.html
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thank you very much for this complex answer! I will watch them for sure. Would you recommend the Silca wax at the moment? Or is there something better? If I read your sheet on zfc right it should be a really good one.
@@bettyxd9 Yes for sure - the top lubricants recommended for use with immersive waxing at the moment are Silca SS drip, Ceramic Speed UFO drip, or Tru-Tension tungsten all weather, all are great products and need no cleaning before popping into wax pot every circa 5th re lube.
I ride a recumbent trike that is 8 speed. Its chain is 12' long and I'm using my trike for long distance touring. I'm planning on getting a new chain soon and plan to wax the chain. Since I'll be away from home for long periods during my tours I can't bring a crock pot to rewax.....can I use the drip wax lubes to keep my chain lubed between immersion waxing and how often should I use the drip wax lubes?
Once you wax, you won't go back. I've been running waxed chains for about 9 months now, once the original prep is completed they are very low maintenance.
I did a ride in the wet and didnt dry the chain probably and have a little bit of rust on the outside. The most disappeared after a rub with a microfiber cloth. Whats with the inside of the rollers? Should I just rinse with hot water and re-wax? Cheers and thanks in advnace!
Hey jesper if it is just a bit on the outside its not a concern just a visual thing. There is much less air exposure inside so normally that will take a good bit longer to start to oxidise vs the outside. If it is badly oxidised outside then inside may also be a concern, if just a little, normally no cause for alarm just aesthetics
What are your thoughts on Silca's wax "system" ?
Josh said that he only does a hot melt after 1500km what he does instead is put the Super secret chain lube as a top up to extend the hot wax.
Also, would you just rewax as normal if using this? Or clean with turps and metho?
Yes it is brilliant. Many use silca ss drip with msw or hot melt - it was designed to be used in conjunction with immersive waxing. For a lot of riders that system takes the worry away re keeping up with re waxing every time, as can just wax, re lube next say 3 to 5 times with ss drip, then re wax to re set any contamination that may have started to build. Absolutely no cleaning needed can just pop off and re wax and yeehaa. This system gets more people immersive waxing that would have otherwise just stayed with drip lubricant only, which at some point will need cleaning maintenance. A rewax is the easiest, most cost effective and effective clean one can do - so it is a brilliant product / system indeed. Very popular with many zfc customers / cyclists.
I’m watching all your videos and l’m begginning with chain waxing. Today I had my first experience, I bought a slow cooker and Silca wax. The slow cooker (set al low temperature) was very slow, after 90 minutes only half the wax was liquid, and temperature was 60 degrees (celsius). So I did something else, but when I measured the temperature again after few hours the temperature was 120 degrees. No smoke and no other problem, but I’m a bit worried … is my new wax still ok? Should I rewax my chain?
hey 4 lumi! sorry delay reply i nearly missed it! And damn that sounds like an interesting slow cooker. Most will take about 45 mins to an hour to melt a bag of wax, on low, with lid off - that is the safe way as can never over heat. 120 for a short ish time is likely ok. If wax cools to a white, or grey (any shade) - then its groovy. If there is a yellow tinge to the white or light grey - then its been damaged. Ít is really unusual for a slow cooker to act like that though, normally if it is taking so long to melt, the energy on that setting is very low, and so it isnt going to overheat it. The main probs arise when people try to hurry up and put on high with lid on etc and dont set a timer.
It may be worth looking at an instant pot if budget extends - not sure how much they are where you are. I have slow cooker for some of my own waxing and also instant pot for other - the instant pot i put it on slow cook setting, set the temp, and it gets to 90dg in about 15 mins and just stays there. cost me $90 from kogan for a two pot in one unit, been going groovy fo over 3 years of heavy use now. But yeah, for 99% of waxers, slow cooker is problem free, yours sounds.... different!
I don´t understand. Do you need to rewax (the whole deal with crockpot etc) after every wet ride ? I ride an mtb in muddy and grimy conditions
Hey there - need to no, recommended = yes.
You can add an immersive wax compatible drip lubricant over the top - but all the abrasive crap brought deep into chain from water will still be in there, just with more lube over the top.
Post wet ride you have to pay the piper one of two ways - with a small amount of time to reset contamination in the chain, or with friction and wear. Simply re waxing is the fastest way to reset chain post a wet harsh conditions ride.
Consider you had no seals on your wheel and bottom bracket bearings, and you went for a wet muddy ride. Would you just leave them and thing all is cool? or would you think wow they are running like shit, being rapidly damaged, i should flush clean them and re grease them? It is like that for your chain, except much worse due to it being even more exposed, and doing SO MUCH more mechanical work. And it will take other components out with it.
What do you do at the moment?
I have sram x01 chain with about 300 kms on it with peaty's all weather lube. today i did like 5 acetone baths for chain until the liquid was crystal clear with nothing inside. melted mspeedwax for about 30 mins, put my chain in it for 30 mins and swished it around every few mins. after it dried, i feel like wax didn't stick to the chain very good, on the outer wall one simple scratch with my nail is enough to remove the wax. Did i do something wrong or is it supposed to work like that? also it didn't take a lot of strength to break links loose.
Hey godspeed - no you can always easily scrape or scratch excess wax off the outside - this is not the same as two wax surfaces inside the chain sliding against each other - and also the wax layer left after break in an excess pressed out is very thin - you dont have this big visual wax coating in there.
If the chain runs silky smooth for hours (how hours depends on load, amount of dust, dust type) - it is hard to give an average for offroad - for me - sram chains - wax coating is generally smooth and lovely for at least 6 hours riding.
if sounds and feels very dry very quickly - ie you get a sort of zzzz, zzzzz, zzzzz, zzzzz, dry sound and feel on pedal strokes, and or its starts squeaking especially on high chain line angles after a short period - then you may have to worry re did the wax bond.
Acetone is a great finish prep, i am not sure how well it dissolves X product - but it should be all groovy. Do some riding and all will be clear! :)
I would recommend switching out the acetone for denatured alcohol, and depending on where you are in the world, 91-99% isopropyl/isopropanol alcohol.
Denat alcohol and especially isopropanol are more effective solvents for initial cleans, final cleans, and even for general chain factory grease cleaning.
Ethyl acetate would be best, but that is not easily available for consumers.
Would a 500ml Pot be big enough? There are dual wax warmers available for hair waxing studios. They can heat up to 105 celsius. But I am not sure, if they are big enough. However, your first pot at the end of video seems little, too.
No they are too small, their diameter is so small you cannot really get a chain in there on a swisher tool and if you made one that did fit, you wouldnt get a very good swishing. 1.5l is as small as you want to go. I tried a 1l beauty salon wax pot but that was also too small.
Hello Subscribers, We have taken down the previous Episode 7 and have added your Questions and Answers below to this REVISED Episode 7 with Subtitles of the Questions.
Q: Can you use Klean Strip Paint Thinner instead of just mineral spirits? edit: just checked out ep 6 and this is semi answered, i think i will be fine as according to its SAS it has Mineral spirits and something else called Trimethylbenzenes
Q: How do you store wax after waxing until the next waxing?
A: Just turn pot off. wax will cool to a solid mass. pop chain on and turn pot on to melt for next waxing.
Q: Do you do test on the different manufacturers chains? Would be great no.
A: Not control test as no time (the main test is very time intensive and ZFC is booked solid with lubricant tests) but from many years of experience both myself and customer - wax adheres very well (stays silky smooth for long period) to YBN / Campy / Sram / - all speeds, and shimano 12spd. Fairly poor adherence to shimano 11spd and very poor to shimano 10spd (chains start to feel and sound dry much more quickly). Very poor adherence to KMC chains - whatever coating they use tends to shuck off quite a number of lubricants - hence we see huge variance in kmc chain lifespan depending on customers lubricant choice and whether the chain repelled lubricant choice or not. Fast chains, but can be a bit of gamble re lifepsan and experience.
Q :If you are using SS drip between do you clean chain in boiling water before you wax again? Or do you just put it in the wax and not worry about possibly more contamination?
A: No just re wax it is designed to be used as such. Only boiling water rinse post a proper wet ride.
Q: Do you have to clean previously waxed chain first in water and dry before relaxing or I thought I heard you say just take chain off and put it in and let old wax melt off while wax is heating up?
A: No cleaning, just put on pot and re-wax - putting on wax as it melts allows chain to heat up with wax and old coating melt off
Does the the service intervals (e.g: 300 km rewax) change if I have a lot of altitude gain in my rides? If yes how much? Riding uphill I still pedal hard but don't rack up as many kms so I assume it has some influence on the service/rewax interval?
the higher the power, the shorter the treatment lifespan for any lubricant. But whats your average - i assume you come back down the hill too which is kms clocking up without much power. You will know if need to do before 300km as chain will go from silky smooth to feeling and sounding very dry. All such guides are just guides, no two rides are remotely the same, one person may cruise the flats at 150w. Another may be a 90kg powerhouse with a 420w ftp constantly smashing high intensity intervals etc - so the guides kinda pitch to the middle, and then one gets to know from their own riding pretty quickly once start using
Are there any issues using waxed chains in cold temps? 0-5 deg C
Overall immersive waxing with top wax will save some issues that can occur with liquid lubricants that can suffer from much lower viscosity increasing drag (and depending on temp of application, can hurt penetration to pin). A solid lubricant is still a solid lubricant. In very cold it MAY get more brittle and so MAY suffer a shorter treatment lifespan vs perfect conditions, but 0 to 5dg doest seem to be an issue - proper snow roads can reduce treatment lifespan.
Do I need to immerse my cassette in solvent to clean it if I'm using a waxed chain?
If cassette is used and contaminated with previous dirty drip lubricant - it should cleaned - any way that you like is fine as long as its clean. If you are waxing, then no you dont need to clean cassette - caveat - that is assuming using a top wax like mspeedwax or hot melt (or others that may exist that i havent tested yet). If you are using a cheap / DIY wax that has high mineral oil content (ie candles, cheap paraffin) then you will get too much gunk build up over time which needs to be maintained or shifting goes downhill badly. Top immersive waxes, unlike many gritty drip lubricants, the small amount of excess wax left on cassette / chain ring teeth is actually very wear protective, so a small amount of build up is perfect.
Why not do a hot rinse each time to remove contaminants, and make the wax last a bit longer?
For things like dry road riding, there just really isnt the contaminents for the hot water to remove. Hot water isnt a deep clean it is a surface level clean great for getting rid of bulk of contamination post a heavily contaminated ride. It really wont do anything tangible for normal dry rides, and the problem we see for say dry road riders doing every time is that things like drying properly tends to get short thrifted, and wet chains going into wax every time, which seems to have a negative affect. Probably about 10 times a year i will get an email from a waxer who is getting pretty average lifespan out of chain (ie 3000 to 5000km) instead of circa 10,000km, and they are dry road riders. 9 times out of 10 we find they are boiling water rinsing every time. So it really is not a great path to do when a) it is just going to waste time and electricity anyway - it not only offers no benefit but may well be a negative benefit - and b) there are other way better options to increase wax such as two pot method demonstrated at 1hr 39 mark - which again even for dry offroad dusty riding is going to be vasty superior vs boiling water overall. Boiling water should be kept for post proper wet rides where a lot of crap has been transported in deep.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks, I'm just migrating back to MSW from Absolute after getting only 200kms before squeaking chains, so wanting to maximise the benefits. I thought almost dry chains ok as the hot wax should evaporate any residual, is this not the case/your experience?
@@martywells Yes something is up with Ab graphenwax. it tested pretty poorly, yet graphen lube is pretty amazing (just a bit hard to use and expensive). But graphen lube is like $220 for 140ml, and graphen wax is like $45 for 320g. Hot wax X with graphene for 300g is RRp $285.
My guess is that there is absolutely F all graphene in graphen wax vs graphen lube. Both the performance (and i think the base wax is poor as well, going for this pliable wax) and the pricing vs other graphen waxes makes no sense. I could be wrong, but personally i believe graphen wax the black is mostly colouring, not graphene.
And it does to a point, but not fully. Msw have done a bunch of testing re waxing wet chains and found water in the wax still after cooling. So recommendation post boiling water flush rinses is to ensure dry chain well (hair dryer makes quick work).
@@zerofrictioncycling992 My chains are rarely stiff post-dip, which I assumed was the G... 🤯
Will dry properly now, promise!
Can I put AB Graphene right on top of an MSW immersed chain for a 200km gravel ride with multiple water crossings? (The Rift)
Hey corey sorry delay reply! - yes indeed you can, if you can afford it, at the moment graphen lube is the longest lasting in extreme conditions tested BUT remember graphen lube does have significant penetration issues - so you results over the top of a solid wax will differ vs a chain immersively prepped with graphen lube where it is graphen lube deep inside chain and not solid wax. Msw is extremely good and graphen lube outer lay MAY / should help it last longer than sans the graphen lube but this hasnt been control tested to confirm / see how much difference it makes. If i was me and it was a key event and i needed to go flag to flag and i wasnt 100% that msw would make it, i would immersive prep an AB graphen chain.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Sounds like I might just go with NFS over MSW because of the length and water crossings. Obv I'll have to overhaul the chain after, but think it should last the distance.
What is the interpretation of the wear rate? So what does a 20% wear rate mean?
Hey PPP - the general best recommendation for chain wear is to replace the chain when it is ""0.5%" worn, as an elongation wear measure. Ie if your chain was intially 104 links long, at 12.7mm per link, total length of chain new should be 104 x 12.7mm = 1320.8mm. If chain wear is such that this length has increased by 0.5%, then 1320.8 x 1.005 = 1327.4mm - so if the chain wears to basically 7mm longer - that is 0.5%, and it should be replaced before it starts rapidly eating out cassette and chain ring teeth to match its length. Drop in chain checkers make measuring this wear much easier vs doing the above.
20% wear thus means 20% of the 0.5% wear allowance. So depending on how you are measuring, that will calc out to X number. Ie if you are measuring as span of 10 links of chain, rounding down you have about 0.5mm of wear to = 0.5% wear, 20% of the recommended 0.5% wear would be 0.1mm, being 20% of the 0.5mm wear allowance for that length span.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks!
After hours of research, biggest qualm for me is quick links. It's not taking chain on and off...seems like no big deal. Have read a lot of the re-usable links are not as good with 1x setups, and often skip on smaller 10 or 11 tooth cogs. To me, this isn't worth it if having to continuously purchase new links all the time. They come with $$, packaging, and environmental cost too...if churning through them every time you need to change and re-set the chain. Do people have a favorite link that they use for mullet 1x gravel setups? One that seems to really last for multiple installs and inspires confidence?? Seems to me this is a much, much, bigger issue than setting up a pot every so often. Those quick links are not cheap...and I'd really rather not feel like I'm going to snap a chain by re-using them. Really think a deep dive into all quick links on market, is desperately needed !!!
Been done. Check out Dave Rome's article on Cyclingtips. Also, if your connex reusable quicklink skips on the small cog, then RTFM. It's upside down.
Hey brian - i havent heard of links skipping on 10 or 11t cogs. No one can physically tell a difference between a re useable link or officially single use link, and what difference there may be will be in the pin locking channel, it will have zilcho to do with how the chain runs on cogs - the rollers and everything are obviously still in the exact same place. I have a master link FAQ guide in instructions tab that steps through options for what to do re single use links that will have you sorted and onto what works best for you. It really isnt that big an issue as it may seem. most re use single use links circa 5 times - i know of all of one failure in all these years of being a pretty prolific immersive wax retailer, with countless gravel and mtb waxers - including of course myself. IF not comfortable re using then wax, re lube next 5 lubes with say silca ss drip or ufo drip, then re wax to reset any contamination, and use a new link. This will still be for most around 1000km+ of offroad riding before needing new link, and the extremely low wear of this approach still WAAAYYY covers cost of links with still hundreds of bucks per year typically saved vs their previous option. Easy easy :)
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Found your FAQ sheet a few weeks back. Thanks! Took the plunge with YBN 11 speed links and Silca Super Secret (immersion) on my gravel bike. Blown away at how clean it runs (also shocked at how long the treatment lasts). Super clean after a bunch of rides on forest service roads / single track in Virginia, USA. I think I'll become more and more comfortable re-using links as I get more miles in on the system. Sort of a thing where more first hand experience = more confidence. Shimano link tool seems to be the best for install / removal. Thanks for all of the resources you put out....my road bike is next to convert to waxing when chain needs to be changed ! (skipping idea came from reading Amazon reviews on the YBNs and Connex. I was surprised at how many people reported problems...seemed like more than there would otherwise be if it was simply an installation problem, or people not installing correctly). That being said...I should know that reviews of diy home mechanics not the best resource for how things will go in the real world !! No problems at all with YBN links thus far...
@@briancase_rideaperture thanks for taking the time to write in the feedback brian! yes a top chain coating lube or wax is the best for offroad for sure vs wet lubes so great choice. And yes if it was in relation to wippermann connex links, that happens a lot - they are easy to install upside down which will cause it to jump in small cogs as the curve of the link is facing the wrong way to bend around the cassette. It is not that obvious on install - i used to stock but stopped as they just didnt click with too many customers - and they are so expensive that a pack of links re used 5x works better overall anyway vs installing upside down and then going thunk thunk thunk for an entire gran fondo. Of which that happened more than you would think! Lately i have seen them for 39.90 each for an 11spd link, which is nuts.
With contaminants in the wax, when the wax has solidified, can you simply scrape off the dirty base layer and use the top layer until it too gets dirty? In the interest of marginal gain of course... 🤓
Doing a layer would remove a lot of wax to get rid of contaminants. SOme use a coffee cup and cut off the bottom half cm ish, or a bbq pushed into a cone and cut off the tip. Note though you will also lose some of your friction modifier as that will start to settle to bottom as well as contamination.
Why not just invert the cooker and scrape off the bottom 5mm from the wax cake?
@@martywells you can, you are just removing a lot of wax to get rid of some contamination, and you are removing a lot of the friction modifier as well. cutting off a tip or small layer is going to be just as effective at removing the contamination and losing less wax and hopefully less modifier. Again for maximising (doubling) wax lifespan two pot system is overall most efficient and effective (1hr 39 min mark)
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Helloooo 2 pots 🙂
I wanted to wax so much but I live in a country where it is impossible to bring those brands wax even if I can bring them the price will be 3X. Like the silca 500gm packet will cost me 100 Dollar with everything. I really wanted to go for DIY , watched the whole video but at the ended got broken heart.
Hi Mahabub! Yes apologies I am a bit harsh on diy waxing as have lost way too many hours of my life fixing DIY waxing jobs gone waaaayyyy wrong. The information pumped out for diy waxing is typically pretty horrendous. Whilst your diy wax will not match msw / hot melt etc, you can still well out do many many bottled lubricants with immersive paraffin waxing. Key is just get true food grade paraffin (gulf canning wax). Try to get a reputable brand from a reputable seller - ie you will often get what you pay for, if you buy supposed food grade wax from alibaba at a cheap price, it is as likely to be food grade as the genuine rolex for $100. Skip the additives, just go high quality paraffin base - thats the key for DIY waxing - 99.9% of diy waxers use a cheap wax, so no matter what they add, if the base is crap, the DIY waxing is crap (and thats not taking into account those adding paraffin oil, lanolin, beeswax, olive oil, and various other things to make my life more interesting :))
Don't despair and believe everything that is said. oz cycle has proven in his videos that diy wax is a great way to go. Just look for a video called "Is this the ultimate bicycle chain lube?". The comparison is not the most scientific one, but at least it shows that diy is nowhere worse than msw.
@@tomalbert3299 yes! I am using his method and getting very good results since I commented here.
@@mohapagla great to hear! Same goes for me.
Your work is great. But this video is too long! IMHO it would be better to break it up into smaller episodes. But keep up the great work!
Exactly. Or at least add timestamps to navigate the content more easily.
Disagree. Loved the depth.
just out of curiosity, what test lab in denmark is it?
Kind regards from denmark:)
Ceramic Speeds R&D lab, they are the only efficiency testing i can trust (continued on the gold standard process pioneered by jason smith at ceramic speed). All other test labs to date results have been all over the place.
You want me to remove the chain every time I water rinse my mountain bike? That's a lot of chain removal and reinstall.
Not really - sorry im still not super clear sometimes - firstly you should try to minimise watering your chain. it is just like you dont want to water your bearings either, but your bearings are less exposed and have seals. You can water your chain when you rinse your mtb, it is just less optimal than not watering your chain. If you havent removed surface dust first with an alcohol + soft cloth wipe, you risk washing abrasive contamination from surface to inside chain. it may be a very small amount - but multiple a very small amount by millions of articulations under load - a small integer multiplied by millions still adds up to something over time.
If waxing / wax drip lubricant - and wetted, and then left for a day or so - rollers MAY start to oxidise - so just make sure wipe chain dry, and or simply add a quick light top up of immersive wax compatible lubricant to protect until next re wax.
Many, many many mtb and gravel riders use combo approach - so wax, re lube with ss drip or ufo drip next 3 to 5 re lubes, then re wax to reset any contamination starting to build. This takes a lot of pressure off re doing a re wax every re lube, easy to keep chain protected etc, and there is just no easier, cleaner and cheaper way to keep chain super clean and low friction / wear than just doing a re wax to reset vs doing a solvent flush clean if not waxing.
Hope that helps make sense!
This is to long for this format (youtube) If you split it up and answered 1-2 questions in each video (of 5-10 min) with the question in the title. you would drive a lot more engagement. Also people would be able to find what they are looking for.
Yes apologies i couldnt take that approach as then i would somehow have to remember what questions is in what episode. I get just so, so, so many questions every night from all over the world on waxing, i just had to get the updated FAQ document up and the FAQ vid up, and people need to go through one or the other first before sending in a waxing question. Waxing is actually a very small part of what ZFC does, and whilst being more and more synonymous with immersive waxing is great as more people will get correct info from ZFC vs wacky info from so many other channels - i have just had to take some measures to be able to direct waxing Q's to here or document first otherwise all i would do all day every day is answer questions on immersive waxing from around the world. People can work though when driving / walking dog / housework etc. I listen to a lot of technical podcasts that are 2 to 3 hours long, but it doesnt matter as every day i have vacuuming / cleaning / dog walking to do and its a great way to make housework one of my most fun times of the day hahahaha
Just stick it on while going for a solo ride or maybe just before bed. I suspect nightmares of giant pots of melted wax might ensue however so beware of the latter.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Podcast format would perhaps be better suited for this long durations, then you (me) could listen during long rides. I always listen to podcasts anyway. But streaming video on the go is less then ideal.
@ yep i understand it may not be suitable for everyone, which is why also have the FAQ guide on website and one can just scroll to applicable question. I wont have time resources to also do podcast, Hopefully most can simply listen too whilst doing easy jobs / commute etc - i listen to a ton of nerdy interest podcasts on oh so many things that now vacuuming and mopping is one of my favourite jobs hahahaha. Ah i remember when housework was such a chore, now it is a grand ol time of catching up on whats happening on so many fun topics from cycling, to batteries to Ev's to stocks to global news to clean technica to a stack of cycling and mtb - and these are a mix of podcast and you tube, i often have you tube playing through headset whilst doing housework and manual zfc work like chain prep. If you do any housework, in a few days of vacuuming and cleaning you will get through no probs, if you dont do any housework, i would guess you are in a minority!! Who does your vacuuming, mopping, washing, putting clothes away, dishes and oh so much more - should have plenty of previously boring chores that are now you rippa time to keep up to date on fun stuff :)
I find it ironic that America calls them crock pots and Australia cause them slow cookers.
@9:34 "Sous vide" is pronounced "soo veed " you don't pronounce the e on the end of the word in French.
Ah thankyou - i will try to remember that for next time! I wish i could remember who to blame where i picked up pronouncing the e. I bet it was from my kitchen rules that the superwife loves hahahaha
Is this a repost? Feel like I’ve watched it before.
Yes, it's a repost.
Is there something tacked on the end?
Hi Frankie, yes with questions subtitled.
@@gilleek2 yes minimising dust going into the waxpot at One Hour and 37 minutes.
and two pot waxing system like a boss at 1hr 40ish. :)
I don't understand how you can overheat the wax on a stove if you have a thermometer?
Because one should not need to be standing there with a thermometer!! Are you oz cycle?!
@@zerofrictioncycling992 No not OZ Just a random Jim. Love your videos
Very easily.