Episode 4 - Part 2 Immersive Chain Waxing - How to Guide.
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 18 авг 2021
- Continuing on, in Part 2 Adam Kerin from Zero Friction Cycling demonstrates how to do an immersive wax. This will help you decide if you want to wax your chain. Immersive waxing lubricates your chain for a very long time and greatly extends the life of your chain. Enjoy, we always welcome your comments.
Спорт
For anyone on the fence about waxing, I can say with full confidence Adam is the king of bicycle chain info. There are no better guides and Adams website is the bible of chain wax. (Don't follow advice from other youtube quacks who use candles...). Its far quicker, easier, and CHEAPER than using liquid lubes. Definitely give it a shot and I promise you'll never look back!
I remived a master link once with chain in large/large. The master link shot off over the fence into next door garden. Never did find it 😂
Lets hope it didnt get lodged in your neighbours eye!
I have watched dozens of these videos and you are the first one to point out the difference in teeth on gravel bikes and how to properly install the chain on them specifically.
Has nothing to do with what type of bike it is, just if it has a single chainring with narrow-wide teeth and a chain guide.
Thanks for the info Adam. Good work.
I think you've opened my eyes to a whole new world. Thank you!
Great info!
Great guide!
thank you so much for this and all your other videos. I have been on the fence on getting started due to me thinking it would be much more complicated. seeing it done was super helpful!!
Very good - I do wax and it is supereasy with those tips from this channel. 👍😎🚴🏽♂️
Did anyone else get stuck at 35-50 seconds just looking at the drive train in all it's glory? God that is gorgeous.
awwww thanks sheridan!! (*insert luv heart here*)
Thank you so much for explaining all of this stuff so well. Im just getting into this after buying a new bike and wanted to give it the best start possible.
I am so happy I ran into your RUclips channel and website... I am a 58 year old man who started riding 2 years ago for health. I've rode bikes all my life but this is the first time I'm riding a "Road Bike"... It was love at first ride....
Question - Never mind found the answer on Episode 7 FAQ.... Thank you
The work you do on testing and research is impeccable. I feel like I can trust your results...
Thank you
thanks very much for the kind feedback Jose! and also i have a master link FAQ guide on instructions tab - page 8 covers re using links. thanks!
Thank you for everything you do. Fantastic advice here and on the site. I would never have started waxing if it wasn't for the information you provide and the time & effort you put in.
Only trouble I've had is evaporating the waste water from a boiled water clean in UK climate!
Hi ross! i used to use a heat gun or hair dryer - heat gun takes about 2 mins. Overkill i would say for most but these days i use an airfryer as i have to dry chains between turps and metho cleaning and then metho and wax pot for the pre prep chains, so i need an effective way to dry easily & in batches. Air fryer works great, and bonus, the large size, i can fit my shoes in to dry after wet rides (and gloves!) :) Best to have it a dedicated cycling air fryer though vs one you also use for food... Again, will be over the top for most if you can just blast with a hairdryer you already have, but an airfryer sure is handy... :)
I put mine into an electric oven for 2 minutes
Looks super easy, happy wax is good wax.👍🍺
Thanks Adam. You stopped me from making a very expensive mistake! re AB Graphen Wax. It's the only immersive wax product available here in (backward) NZ and after reading your reviews on this product, and AB's dodgy practices, I've put immersive waxing on hold until we can get some decent products. In the meantime, it's Effetto Mariposa Flowerpower for me!
Yes i must say the AB wax was super disappointing, especially after how strong (but stupidly expensive) Graphenlube is. They NAILED the packaging and so i was quite looking forward to stocking graphenlube and graphenwax bundle packs (despite the erm.... issues.... i still stocked graphenlube) - but then yeah that wax was a shocker. There is apparently a v2 out which i may or may not look at sometime, im a bit undecided. But it is funny that they have a v2 since according to them v1 was as perfect as if was delivered to earth by the holy lord and all the angels, and that any issues were most definitely the cyclists fault. So i do wonder how they improved on v1!!! :)
I'm discovering your channel and looking at each and every videos, thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge!
On question about the use of a slowcooker : can we use the same heater used for hair removal ? Thanks ;)
Hey there - yes most beauty salon wax pots are perfect temp / adjustable temp for immersive waxing - but.... note most tend to be very small and they are often a deep profile so the circumference for the volume can be very narrow making swishing difficult. And they typically cost a lot more than the $20 adesso from woolworths. But if you have one already that is big enough and not using for your eyebrows, yeehaa :)
Maybe a interesting option is to use a sousvide immersion circulator if you take care of water contamination but can have very precise temperature.
Wax naturally repels water. I have been waxing my chain for years, ridden in rain and never have had any issues with Rust.
Tip: if you don't want to buy an extra slow cooker just for waxing, you can buy disposable liners for your existing pot.
Thanks for the information Adam. Can you please discuss chain direction when refitting. Currently I break the chain below the chain stay and put a hook through the end link at the front of the bike. Most of my chains have different looking inner and outer plates, so by using the hook, I know the chain is going back on the same way. Other chains I have look the same inner & outer and these could be refitted around the wrong way. Does this matter or is it like rotating your mattress and it helps increase chain life? Should I put the hooked chain end at the back of the bike on alternate refits? Thanks!
thanks Nick - and as best as i am aware, only shimano chains are directional. If you look at a couple chains from a couple brands, you will see on edges of the outer link plates some chamfering - this is to aid shifting performance. Shimano only chamfers the leading edge on one side of chain (side with writing stamped in), and as such if installed the other way around, shifting performance will be very slightly compromised. For all other chains that i am aware of, they are not directional. It was more common a long time ago but for awhile now pretty much every one other than shimano has moved away from chain recommended to be fitted in a specific direction, that makes it much easier for OEM install, maintenance, waxers etc to have happy experience with those chains. Im sure shimano will one day, a few more decades of executive meetings (first they have to have a few years of meetings to plan the other meetings) to discuss implementing such a change :)
And yes, not directional is a bit of an advantage long term. Like rotating a mattress, you are shifting the main wear load to the other side of pin / inner link plate shoulders etc - so if one could be bothered to test - there going to be an elongation wear life advantage rotating chain vs same direction all the time. it isnt something i would bother trying to do if waxing, ie just random each re wax will do fine, if one wanted to if not waxing but was removing every couple of months for periodic maintenance, and its not a shimano chain, then there will be a bit of an advantage to rotating.
THANKS! Spring is coming in Montreal, and I'm ready for the wax switch. In the video, we can see peace of wax on your cassette and OSPW. Do you need to clean this? Do you like your Kogel OSPW?
i generally do not clean excess wax from chain ring / cassette teeth etc as this is very wear protective. Pulleys will build up more excess more quickly as just do millions more revolutions so periodically i will wipe excess of those. And yes the kolossos really suit the gravel / cx race bike. Kolossos appear to be a much stiffer & stronger cage for such duty vs other OSPW systems. A few cx stacks on that side of bike now and all sweet, and it looks and runs mint :)
thanks for the guide. one question though, what is that sprocket? rear drivetrain is super bling
Ah that is kcnc 11-42 cassette, which yes i did buy a) because it is very light - that is on my ax lightness cx race wheels, and b) because it came in bling. It was not cheap, and it will be soft (fast wearing) like most light cassette alloys. For me it will last as a) i wax and as its race wheels, it is really only ever seeing freshly waxed race chain so it is very well protected there, and b) it just doesnt see that many km's - it will do maybe 6 cx races a year (including riding to and from race) so it will be a decade or more of cx racing before i have to worry about it. So $700 odd bucks over 10+ years - for me its worth it for the style watts :). I wouldnt recommend this cassette for ones daily ride however unless you are going to re wax your chain every ride and replace chain by 0.2 wear (like a race chain...)
interesting how you do it a bit differently to Silca, they recommend to pull the chain just before it cools to melting point to keep as much of the wax on the chain as possible. I guess this is so more of the product gets used on each immersion
yep we are aligned with silca information on many things but not that. the pressure inside chain is too high, after 10 mins of cycling you will have same coating thickness inside chain, just removing cool equals more faff, more mess and more waste - so for sure we recommend not to do that and to just remove after one has swished at normal waxing temps and hang to set
Awesome videos, I'm currently using Silca Wax and my pot is getting a little low. Just wondering if I can throw in some molten speed wax, or do I clean out the existing product to switch over to another brand?
Hey Ted! yes you can mix msw and hot melt - i have done a bunch of that the mix - it would be a brave person who would put up to be able to tell it apart from either just msw or hot melt - however when your wax is getting too low / approx 30 re waxes if in a nice small slow cooker / crock pot - that is a great time to go to a fresh bag vs mix new wax with old wax. Each re wax will bring a small amount of contamination in as the remaining old coating melts off into wax pot. Melt, decant into small bbq tray, wipe pot clean with paper towel, fresh bag in. If one keeps adding new wax to old wax - over time the wax will just be less amazing as more and more contamination slowly builds. A bag should last most people a good 10,000km for dry road cyclists, so its not a crazy cost per year on lubricant, especially considering how much one is saving on drivetrain wear
Hey Adam, I've learned so much from your website, and now these videos. Do you wax the master links, as well? Sorry if you mentioned it somewhere, already.
Hi ron no i dont recommend to do master links as it makes more difficult to re install, and increases chance of only locking in one side of link - this is covered early is in vid above for full info
Do I understand correctly that if you have already waxed a chain and used it for 200k or so, to re wax you are simply submersing back into wax for 5-10 minutes and then let drip dry? Thanks in advance
Hi Adam - Oversized pulley wheels look great. Do they improve efficiency and are the aluminum pulleys as quiet as stock nylon/ plastic OEM pulleys?
It depends. Marketing for OSPW systems normally claim savings of around 2w. However we do no know what losses the chain is that they use to measure savings between OSPW and standard. I believe most would use a real world "Average chain" of likely around 10w loss. If one is being smart and say running a msw / hot melt chain that will be half the losses of a normal chain - then your savings will also be halved. The worse your chain lubricant, the greater the penalty for small diameter pulleys, cross chaining etc. The lower friction your chain, the lesser the penalty for such things. but also, there is less ability to save by optimising these things
generally i quote to most enquiring at ZFC, if they are running a top lubricant option choice, it will be about 1 watt. So it is an expensive watt.
However, some conditions it is worth more. Ie that is on my cx /gravel race bike. Tension in lower span is greater than on a road mech, so there is a bit more to be saved to start with. Then, in many races - ie the bike saw plenty enough mud on saturdays cx race - the chain is not going to stay in the 4 to 5w loss mark in the last half or last third of the race, it is has bunch of mud in it, it will be more. The more friction in the chain, the more the ospw will save - so it was probably saving me circa 2w after all by the end, and others who start with pretty terrible chain and finish worse, well, more - but they should work on their chain lube before they think about shelling out for ospw.
Im not fast enough to really worry about 1w or 2w, but i am lucky i have the budget for fun things with my bikes, i really enjoy an optimised bike because when you take care of things across the bike - you can add up some really big differences vs just running things stock. From chain, to bearings, to pulleys to tire choice - all the right choices can add up to 10 to 15w difference vs meh choices, and a bike really feels like silk lightning overall with all the right choices vs feeling like a bus with the meh choices. Life is too short to ride draggy bikes :) But again - use budget - cover the easy, very cost effective low hanging fruit first (chain, chain lube & maintenance, tires - refer to bicycle rolling resistance, then stay playing with bearings / ospw if budget allows / and or you just enjoy adding cool touches & upgrades to your bike. You wont notice saving a watt. you will notice saving 10).
Adam - your vids are an evergreen resource; thanks for all your work!
New-ish waxer here. Entering winter in the mid-Atlantic region of the U.S. I know it’s not really the climate you live and ride in, but any specific guidance for running wax during a cold - but not wet - season (say, -5C to 5C)?
Also - in terms of drip wax top-up between slow cooker treatments - any temperature-related best practices for application?
My garage (where bike and drip wax are usually stored) sits at 10-12C during winter. Will warming the drip wax improve application? Should I bring both bike and drip wax indoors (21-22C) to warm up for best results?
thanks P-Phunk! the immersive waxes like msw are great in the cold with the caveat that a treatment will take a notably longer time to break in, polish up and thus free up - so where a re wax would normally be zooming along after 10 to 15 mins, it could be still feeling draggy and sluggish for good while past that. in the negatives it could be 45mins to an hour to really break in properly. not really an issue for commuters, can be something to be aware of pre race or fast group ride.
Yes that temp can cause issues with application of pretty much all wax drips even those that normally do not have penetration issues - they are designed to not have such down to around i think maybe 16 or 18dg c below which issues may start to occur. Unfortunately warming the lubricant wont solve - if you are applying say 5ml to your chain (fairly heavy wax re lube), and your chain is over 100 links long - then that is less than 0.05ml per link. The warmed lubricant will almost instantly cool to the same temp as chain metal. So wax drip application the chain and lubricant ideally should be at around 20dg c or you may find you just have only penetrate superficially / mostly set on outside of chain. For some this is not easy if bike is stored in a garage or shed etc - and so there is no magic bullet around that only considering other options such as running two chains on rotation so one waxed chain comes off and goes into pot, other waxed chain goes on etc - or if the break in a pain - remove chain to bring up to indoor ambient temp for wax drip application. For some working around cold temp is ok, for others the options are impractical - they may go back to a wet lube - but then that brings other problems of either friction and wear from gathering contamination - or the faff of cleaning maintenance to keep low friction - which is often more faff than the steps needed to keep on wax etc. Tis all a balance that each individual should choose what suits their situation and preferences best.
hope that helps! Sorry no super easy solution, alas those temps simply do pose some challenges......
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks so much, Adam! Appreciate the detail and clarity in your response.
Good tip on the longer ‘break in’ time after immersive waxing when riding in low temps.
With the drip wax ‘top-up’ - I’ll try bringing the bike indoors after dinner to warm up; applying the drip wax before I turn in; and leaving the machine indoors overnight. If that doesn’t go swimmingly, I’ll stick to just immersive waxing until spring.
Thank you again Adam for every video you do. Can you hang the chain on the swisher tool? I had a stuck pin/link the other day that I ruined the chain, it had never happened with oil and it was my first waxed chain; could that be from low wax temperature? Or bad after wax bond breaking? I’m also running an oversized pulley.
Thanks Derek! You can but the chain will stick to itself a bit, it can be a little more faff removing from swisher vs hanging vertically, but its not too bad. Sorry i not quite understand what happened with chain and suck pin /link - how ruined?
I doubt wax could of caused a "true" stiff link, you sometimes get a couple of links that require a little more wiggling to free up, and they seem to occur randomly, sometimes you have to just put up with it for the first km or 2 and it sorts itself, the only things I can think of is:
1) You got a bad chain with a tight link out of the box, it used to happen occasionally in the past but I don't remember having one in the 10 speed+ era. (Adam has handled more chains than I have or ever will, if it does still happen he will know)
2) The chain was left out stripped of grease to air dry for a little too long and rust formed inside the chain, but I found it unlikely usually it would appear on the surface first.
@@chris1275cc Chains do very occasionally have a stiff link new, often it is very minor and will free up quickly in riding, and it wont be stiff enough to cause issue going through the drivetrain, you can just feel it when handling the chain post cleaning and threading onto swisher for waxing.
Very occasionally a chain will have a link that is stiff such that it will not articulate enough to go through drivetrain without causing an issue. I have had 2 of these pick up in pre prepping in the last 12 months, and we prep on average 50 to 100 chains a week, so its rare, but happens.
It would be very unusual prep for rust to cause the issue. One would really have to leave chain a long time after cleaning, and even then the outside will start to spot oxidise well before inside as inside does have much air exposure.
I am still unsure of his question / what happened though. One cannot break a chain by waxing it....
What’s the problem with using motorcycle chain lube in cycle, wurth has a very good product called hhs dry lube which is ptfe based . I have been using the “normal” motorcycle chain lube which is admittedly a bit sticky but it’s ok if you’re doing mostly gravel and Tarmac
it is possible there are some automotive / motorcycle products that may cross over ok, but remember the focus of these products is different, so whilst some may do ok / well, it is still unlikely they would match the best products found with genuine R&D developed specifically for cycling. Ie motorcycle chain lubricants are actually there mostly to a) prevent rust and b) protect o rings. All the actual high pressure lubrication for load surfaces are locked in by the o-rings, the chain is effectively lubricated for life inside where it needs to, and the lubrication applied externally is just to protect external surfaces from oxidation and the o-ring seal from drying out and cracking. This is very different to cycling where whilst the loads are lower, the very small parts size still has pressure loads in the thousands of psi which need to be lubricated, and there is no seal, so any contamination the lubricant attracts can be abrading on wear / load surfaces under this very high load pressure.
Dry PTFE spray type lubricants as for motorcycle chains tend to be very thin and thus have a very short lifespan in cycling under these loads, so vs top tested bicycle chain lubricants, they may need more frequent application, overall costing more to run in lubricant costs, and likely with higher component wear as well. They simply have a different function they were designed for.
Also note that most good players in the industry are moving away from PTFE for environment reasons - and the rather terrible environmental impact of PTFE mfg. There are better options now.
Not sure if you're making a video for this but what's the best way to store waxed chains? I'm planning on waxing a couple at a time and was wondering if there was a recommended way to store them before you put them on the bike
Hi Tadaka, if chain has just been waxed - they are fine to just be stored openly as they are chock full of wax, nothing is going to do any harm to them in just normal storage. For those waxing multiple chains (ie avid rider running one chain mon to fri, one for the weekend, re wax both at once on rest day, or intrepid commuter who needs to remove chain 1 after wet ride, chain 2 a couple days later after a wet ride, then re waxing all 3 at once etc) - then ensure chain is dried with microfibre cloth if has been ridden in wet - then store wrapped in a microfibre cloth. A waxed chain that has been ridden - wax is abraded off outside of rollers first, and rollers are a high carbon steel for hardness and these oxidise readily if no wax left on them and exposed to open air for a decent stretch, so if it has been ridden and removed awaiting next re-wax, best to store wrapped up in a microfibre cloth. This can be especially important for those doing an interstate wet cx , mtb or road event, where there may be some days post wet ride and getting home to re-wax - dry chain, wrap in a second dry microfibre cloth, and all is groovy till get home. NEVER WRAP IN PLASTIC - plastic like a humidifier and rust catalyst.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks!
Do you just leave the left over wax n the pot with the lid on and reuse or do you store it in something else until next use. On the new chains I got they said you could reuse the master link 3 times. Could you do a video comparing the different types of manufacturers chains. Has anyone done any testing on them?
HI gary sorry delay reply i get very behind on social media stuff! Yes let it cool in pot, no need to store elsewhere, this way you can just turn on and melt again. You should have a dedicated pot, not mix with cooking. And yes refer to chain testing page on website and best chain article with cycling tips :)
I reuse my quick link many times because I mostly ride on my indoor trainer where I don’t shift at all. It’s basically a single speed. I get phenomenal wear using a waxed chain. However, it is darned messy. People always says it so clean, or cleaner than petroleum (oil) on the chain, but I find it’s at least as messy. Wax just keeps flaking off and I need to clean up the bike, trainer, and floor constantly. Waxed chains are all about flaking wax and lots of it.
Thank you very much! I'll defenetly try this! Just one question: how often can one pott of wax be used in the slow cooker? How many chains can be waxed with one pott of wax? Thanks a lot!
Hey Henning - for road typically recommend re wax by circa 300km, and replace wax after approx 30 re waxes - so about 8000 to 10,000km per bag is normal. Check wax FAQ guide on zfc website if ever stuck as i cant be assured to always be on top keeping up on comments - 99% of wax questions are covered there for easy of knowledge re all things immersvie waxing!
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thank you so much!
Hi Adam,
I am huge fan of waxing and trying to spread the word over to German e-mountainbike groups….impossible. They rather spend 400€ for a new cassette than 25€ for HotMelt.
However, there is one question I am asking my self now and than.
What happens to the the contamination (dust) when I do a rewaxing?
HI miro apologies for delay! The contamination you bring into wax will become part of the wax. But, it takes awhile for this to notably negatively affect. Compare to drip lube. You get dust in chain, and then you add say 5ml of drip lube over 100+ links of chain. The contamination doesnt go anywhere. You have just added less than 0.05ml per link of new lubricant over old contaminated coating. Over subsequent re lubes, the ratio of contamination to lubrication just continues to degrade. Vs putting the chain in a bath of 500ml of wax...... it takes ages for the wax to get anywhere remotely near as bad as what is happening when one just drips more lube on chain - hence how much cleaning needs to be done for most drip lube chains to try to keep them low friction if riding offroad.
You can also easily minimise - dry rides - spray some alcohol onto microfiber cloth and wipe chain to remove surface dust. Dust sticks to outside of chain even if wax chain, from static elec same as dust sticks to frame and you dont lubricate your frame. this wipe will lift off surface dust so you do not take into wax pot.
Drip lube users should do same so as not to drag this contamination into chain on re lube which happens a lot, and thats very bad re causing wear.
I would also go to the epic wax FAQ guide to 1hr 39 and look at two pot system like a boss, this is the easiest way to keep main pot wax mint - especially if do a lot of wet rides.
Does anyone know if an induction stove would work? those give quite good control of the temperature
Yes they do - i actually have small portable one for one of my own pots. If you go induction get a cast iron pot as this will transfer heat extremely well, even better is to use a hob as well in between (hob and cast iron pot is what i use on mine). A very thin pot if you put heat on a bit too high you may still overheat bottom of the wax that is trapped before upper layers melt enough to allow convection. Plan to melt slowly - rapid heating is bad, so experiment starting on a very low setting first, and increase as needed- or start very low and increase after some time has passed that will allow convection and ensure bottom of wax will not burn to achieve 70 to 90 dg temp. If using a hob and cast iron pot you wont need to worry about over heating bottom, you can just set to a med-low temp and come back sometime later and all is sweet.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Wow, thank you for the thorough and fast reply! Will try it this way with a thermometer to make sure wax is not burned.
Is it necessary to clean old wax from the chain before re-waxing? From my experience so far the time intervals between re-waxing seem to be getting smaller and smaller. I only rinse off dirt in tap water before waxing. Also, could it be that the wax wears off faster in freezing temperatures? Recenty a re-waxed chain in -7C (19F) got noisy after only 3-4h of riding.
Hi Thijs, no not at all, i do not know where this information keeps coming from! refer to chain maintenance guide (instructions tab zfc website) for how to best maintain you waxed chain, what you should do and when. watering chain before waxing may be causing issue unless you fully dry chain. Over time the wax will become less amazing as some contamination over time is inevitable, so the treatments will last less and less - typically you should change to a fresh bag (decant out old wax, clean pot, fresh bag in) every approx 8000 to 10,000km depending on conditions you tend to ride in. And yes, the wax will be more brittle at very cold temperatures and a shorter lifespan can definitely result. If you are finding re wax frequency difficult to stay on top of consider a) two chains on rotation - you always need another chain, and this guarantee's two chains through cassette vs getting caught out running one too long, and or b) use in conjunction with silca ss drip, ufo drip or tru tension tungsten all weather - you can top up when home with this lubricant as needed to keep sufficient wax in chain, and then re wax when you can without any need to clean prior.
Rather than water, use an alcohol or disc brake cleaner spray on microfiber cloth to wipe chain to remove surface dust vs water. Watering chain, unless it is a boiling water rinse post a proper wet ride - it is just not optimal to introduce water to your chain voluntarily with that exception, and you should only boiling water flush rinse post decent wet rides, not as general practice. Again guide should help explain in good detail
I'm wondering if the cassette should be waxed too or not? Would it make sense to reduce friction?
Hey philippe alas no, trying to wax cassette just ends up way too much wax - its a mess / chain can jump as cant settle into cogs fully. There is plenty enough wax from chain imparted to cogs as long a one is re waxing by every circa 300km, and this excess wax is nicely wear protective vs a build up of most drip lubricants which can be an abrasive build up vs slippery build up
Silly question here. After cleaning the bike with soap/water and some brush/cloth friction on the cassette/derailleur, it is necessary to re-wax the chain or is it good to go for longer with just a quick dry?
Hey philippe - there are no silly questions (mostly... yours isnt :)) Is it post a dusty offroad ride? Overall if the wax treatment is not telling you it is getting thin and time to re wax you should be fine, but try not to contaminate wax chain with stuff that may hurt bond (soapy water) on re waxes. Try to treat waxed chain kind of like you treat your brake discs re not contaminating with slippery stuff, and then all should be sweet. Watering chain and then if it sits for awhile, a waxed chain may rust - so be wary there too.
Personally - i dont understand watering a bike unless its been a wet offroad ride and it needs a jet wash, in which case i am re waxing chain anyway post any decent wet ride. Dry riding, i spray a cloth, and wipe bike. I see videos of people taking garden hose and a soapy sponge to road bike that has only done dry riding, and i must admit, i get very confused.
Thank you for your answer. I was indeed thinking about a muddy MTB day. I also don't understand the hype about cleaning after a dry ride on the road. I guess MUC off is good in marketing!
So I'll wax my commuter and will keep grease on the MTB.
Hi, I'm interested in waxing but I don't have a slowcooker (yet). Is there any other way to properly melt a wax, or is this appliance sort of a must have? thx
it isnt a must have but it is the most recommended. People doing on stoves etc can simply over heat or heat too quickly. But definitely it can be done, it will help a lot if doing stove to either have a hob, or a cast iron pot for much better heat control, and using low heat. A thin saucepan - you can just easily damage the wax. And doing via microwave... or oven..... or bbq.... just seems to be a matter of time before a mistake is made, so very much not recommended
Hi Adam, I was wondering, if when the contamination in the pot is high you could strain it through something like a cheesecloth? Then add a new bag of wax to increase the volume again. Many thanks for all your videos.
Hey luke - no that doest really work, the wax will cool / clog any filter fine enough to remove contamination. There are various ways people do to cut bottom off wax after it has cooled, but that will also remove a good amount of your modifier. Best method for that is to use a bbq tray pressed down in center to make a cone shape and cut tip off, this will still remove an amount of modifier, but less than other methods.
The best way to extend wax lifespan is to go to 2 pot system like a boss as demonstrated at the 1hr 39 min mark on wax FAQ vid (episode 7)
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks a mill Adam. I actually use a very similar method when washing cars with 2 buckets and grit guards to stop the dirt you rinse from the mitt from getting back on it and causing swirls in the paint. Thanks again
Hey Adam what about waxing the cassette to?
no dont do that, you will clog it up. If you just err on re waxing slightly early you get the perfect amount of wax coating cog teeth which is very wear protective.
Super interesting stuff. I'm 5,800km into my current chain (Force AXS) on my road bike. Am I best to start with a new chain if I am going to start doing immersive waxing? If not, how do you recommend decontaminating my current chain prior to waxing?
thanks steve! and ah thats a bit of tricky one. A force chain is expensive ish, but not crazy. And so depending on previous lubricant and how many litres of solvent you will need to put through it to properly clean it up for waxing, taking into account how worn it is or is not (so how much life left) - thats the balance. Ie if i have a half worn out ultegra chain - i wouldnt put 3 to 4 liters of turps through it then 2 metho baths to clean it up. If i have a 20% worn red chain, or xx1 or xo1, or T-Type chain - for sure thats worth the solvent and time. Make sure you have a good chain checker, check its wear - if clearly under half worn it is likely worth it, if getting to half worn or more - i personally wouldnt. Stay the course, get a bit more out of that chain, but replace erring on early so you dont risk wearing into cassette, and then start the fun much much better path next chain.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks, that's great guidance. I think i'll get a new chain as soon as the weather is better (I'm in the UK). How do I strip the new chain of the coating they aways have on them from the manufacturer?
@@stevefry4317 My pleasure - and just check the chain prep guide (concise version) - zero friction cycling website - that has a little flow chart for if one is prepping new chain, or existing chain, and if prepping on bike or off bike, and if using solvent or a great (and makes it a whole lot easier) product like UFO DT clean. So follow which one suits you (ie new chain, on bike or new chain - off bike - and if solvent or DT clean). It is all really easy and the guide will step you through whichever section is the one you need
Hello, how many km in dry conditions we can do after a waxing? Thank you best regards.
generally circa 300km easily for most - but note this is conditions and power dependent. You can go much longer (ie msw, hot melt claim 600km) but there are longer term component lifespan advantages to re waxing early vs pushing treatment lifespans
Hello , i switched to hot wax for my bike recently and have a question :
Do you recommend to let the wax cool down a bit before removing the chain from the pot ?
Like in some other tutorials where they say to let the wax get just to the melting point before getting the chain out ? I tend to do that and i find that there is a lot of flakes and a lot of excess on the chain , some much that i find my shiting on read derailleur to be not as crisp sometimes ..
heavens no, pretty sure i covered that in the faq doc and video - that came from oz cycle i think - a source of a lot of real interesting waxing info i spend a lot of my life fixing. THe pressures inside chain are extremely high as parts are small. In 10 mins of cycling you will have same amount of wax inside chain if you remove from wax at 90dg and hang to set on a 40dg c day as if you remove at 60dg c and dunk in cold water to "lock in as much wax as possible " - oz cycle... All you get from the latter method is a big mess, wasting a lot of wax, and gunking up your drivetrain - especially small cog where excess can easily build up in channel between 11t and 12t, have chain sit too high in the 11t and jump under load. Waxing is just super easy - pop chain off, pop into pot, turn pot on, come back later when melted and swish and hang to set. Break wax bond and re install before next ride. 99.999% of immersive waxing should not be more complicated than that. There is a huge amount of over complication of a very simple easy process leading to a frankly nuts FAQ guide :)
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thank you for answering , im going to watch this FAQ vidéo . This recommandation of letting the wax cool down (until there is some solid wax at the surface of the pot) is also in the silca hot chain blend tutorial vidéo . Going to do as you say the next time ! For my first ride with wax, i removed the chain when the wax was around its melting point like they say in the silca videos (im using silca wax) but after 70 km i had so much wax flakes and wax on my cassette and on the outside of chain that gears skipped when peddaling and had trouble shifting beetwen gears (rear mech shifted perfectly the previous ride with squirt lube) . Cheers.
@@beatboy0121 ha yes i did chat to josh about that! He advised they had done some testing and on their super accurate test machine, there was a marginal benefit. It is not something i will bother to include even for race chain prep though for this marginal gain, as other practices are much better, such as a wax break in run and race powder application. That much faff and mess for the level of difference we almost need the resources of cern to detect - i almost always agree with josh but this one is too marginal for too much faff and mess i wish that particular advice hadnt been put out there... and it shoots down my shooting down of the oz cycle video somewhat hahaha - but i sticking to it is REALLY not worth it, especially omg for your training chain.
I ride a recumbent. The chain is close to 3 times the length of a bicycle chain. What practical advice would you give for chain waxing such a long and cumbersome chain?
Hi Robert, yes there are times where immersive waxing would not be practical as treatment lifespans are not super long - perfectly long enough for bikes where it is a cinch to pop ones chain on and off, not really long enough for use cases where doing so is quite a job - even though if one had the time - it is of course going to deliver longest lifespan for your drivetrain. Similarly some of the other typically best drip lube options like ss drip or ufo drip may not be long lasting enough / bit of a pain to re lube such long chains. As recumbents typically stay on road, some very long lasting wet lubricants would be the way i would go, ie silca synergetic, and currently on test and going extremely, extremely well also are Revo lubes, or Rex Black diamond (black diamond recently set a new road use single application longevity test record). Depending on where you are, some may be hard to get - but either of those 3 products will deliver very low wear in road use, very long treatment lifespan per application, and applied properly (work in, then thoroughly wipe excess, and continue to wipe excess from outside of chain each ride) then maintenance intervals are also long - ie a clean and reset every 2000 to 3000km depending on how things are where you live.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 appreciate the advice. Thank you.
I don't really see any difference between a road bike and a recumbent. I ride a recumbent and have been waxing my chain for a year and a half now. The chain is more than twice as Long so I had to make a studier swisher tool, but removing and replacing the chain and the waxing probably tales the same time as for a road bike. Theoretically intervals between waxing should be 2 to 3 times longer than for a road bike, but I'm not sure that this is true in real life.
Im about to start waxing my chain, just a few questions.
1. How many times can i use the wax?
2. What do i do with the wax while im not using it at the moment and dont want the slowcooker running? Can i just turn it off, out in in a cabinet and start it up the next time im waxing without any loss in quality of the wax?
Thanks for all the great videos ❤
Hey PG - all questions re immersive waxing are coved on website / FAQ etc - but quickly for road changing after about 30 re waxes at approx 300km per wax so circa 8000 to 10,000km per bag / box. And yes you just let it set in pot and then it re melts next re wax- the wax will not be damaged unless you over heat it or heat it up too quickly (hence slow cooker is best)
What derailer is that with the big idler pulleys? Are the idlers and cage an aftermarket add on to the derailer or does the derailer come that way?
Hey mark! That is a RX 800 mech as its my cx / gravel race bike. That is the kogel kolosses OSPW system which i really like for offroad bike as it is a really strong and stiff cage. Oh and it gives me style watts, which is very important in lieu of having many actual watts!
@@zerofrictioncycling992 How much do those big idlers increase the chain wrap capacity of the cage compared to ordinary size idlers on a same length cage?
@@markholm7050 It depends. Marketing for OSPW systems normally claim savings of around 2w. However we do no know what losses the chain is that they use to measure savings between OSPW and standard. I believe most would use a real world "Average chain" of likely around 10w loss. If one is being smart and say running a msw / hot melt chain that will be half the losses of a normal chain - then your savings will also be halved. The worse your chain lubricant, the greater the penalty for small diameter pulleys, cross chaining etc. The lower friction your chain, the lesser the penalty for such things. but also, there is less ability to save by optimising these things
generally i quote to most enquiring at ZFC, if they are running a top lubricant option choice, it will be about 1 watt. So it is an expensive watt.
However, some conditions it is worth more. Ie that is on my cx /gravel race bike. Tension in lower span is greater than on a road mech, so there is a bit more to be saved to start with. Then, in many races - ie the bike saw plenty enough mud on saturdays cx race - the chain is not going to stay in the 4 to 5w loss mark in the last half or last third of the race, it is has bunch of mud in it, it will be more. The more friction in the chain, the more the ospw will save - so it was probably saving me circa 2w after all by the end, and others who start with pretty terrible chain and finish worse, well, more - but they should work on their chain lube before they think about shelling out for ospw.
Im not fast enough to really worry about 1w or 2w, but i am lucky i have the budget for fun things with my bikes, i really enjoy an optimised bike because when you take care of things across the bike - you can add up some really big differences vs just running things stock. From chain, to bearings, to pulleys to tire choice - all the right choices can add up to 10 to 15w difference vs meh choices, and a bike really feels like silk lightning overall with all the right choices vs feeling like a bus with the meh choices. Life is too short to ride draggy bikes :) But again - use budget - cover the easy, very cost effective low hanging fruit first (chain, chain lube & maintenance, tires - refer to bicycle rolling resistance, then stay playing with bearings / ospw if budget allows / and or you just enjoy adding cool touches & upgrades to your bike. You wont notice saving a watt. you will notice saving 10).
So after I clean my chain and wax it then when I rewax it I don’t have to clean it just put it back in the hot wax ? I hope it’s that easy because I have 3 more chains to go :).
that is correct - i am not sure where it keeps coming from that people fully solvent clean chain again before re waxing - the clean is the initial clean to remove factory grease / drip lubricant - after that, it is just re wax and yeehaa.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks for the info. I’ll keep my chains in rotation and see how long till they need rewax.
just a quick one how do you know when it's time to re wax chain? km?
Hey Stashe - when chain starts to sound and feel notably dry. you will start to get a zzz, zzzz, zzzz sound and feel on pedal strokes. YOu will get to know after a few treatment cycles how long for your cycling this tends to happen, and then re wax a bit before it gets to that point.
How do you remove and rejoin your Campag chains? Thanks for your videos.
Hey Adam, most move to master links / connect links. In their 123 page instruction book they extraordinarily wastefully include in every chain (the internet campy, the internet.....) campy are illogically against master links. Yet for ekar they finally moved to master links..... but riveting special campy pins with the special campy tool to remove and re instal a chain - that was good in 1986. To make waxing viable / proper chain and bike maintenance viable - use ybn or other brand masterlink of same speed as the chain.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thank you!
Can I use an ultrasonic cleaner to heat the wax in a container submerged in hot water? The machines go 70-80C
I was wondering about the same, having just ordered an ultrasonic cleaner that is heated as well. There is one video on yt where someone uses the ultrasonic function, he says that the soundwaves help the wax penetrate the rollers. I’ve decided to give that a go, but I’ll keep the wax & chain in locking Tupperware and use a water bath, same like for the cleaning part. I‘ve got three chains lined up already, I guess we’ll see how that goes.
@@PhilippDitfurth refer to ultrasonic and race chain guide. In general using US is a vastly more time consuming method for no difference you would ever notice. IT is used for race chain prep, but it needs to be used properly, and for waxing, you need a decent power. Most YT info on waxing / US is not amazing... SOrry delay i get very behind on SM stuff, but definitely refer to Ultrasonic guide, instructions tab - zfc website, also have an ultrasonic video guide now.
refer to ultrasonic and race chain guide. In general using US is a vastly more time consuming method for no difference you would ever notice. IT is used for race chain prep, but it needs to be used properly, and for waxing, you need a decent power. Most YT info on waxing / US is not amazing... SOrry delay i get very behind on SM stuff, but definitely refer to Ultrasonic guide, instructions tab - zfc website, also have an ultrasonic video guide now.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Awesome Info, thank you! Also great you´re taking the time to answer here, really appreciate it :)
What do I do to switch from oil to wax?
Do what he says it works
What's a good temp to pull the chain out at, I heard 52-54C I think on the oz cycles channel, but you mentioned the wax being 70-100C.
Hey colin - step 1, delete all information on waxing obtain from oz cycles - maybe his content on other topics is great, on waxing it is mostly a disaster, and with dishonest testing thrown in for fun (In my opinion). Step 2 - unsubscribe from oz cycles as he is in jail for being a horrific human being (kidnapped, tortured and killed his neighbours dog. There are other great sources of cycling information from not horrific humans, get your information from these).
As long as wax in pot is anywhere from 70 to 100dg c, thats great. Just removed after you have finished swishing. Trying to do the cooling thing to remove just results in a lot of time wasted, and enormous mess as so much more wax is pressed out, and after 10mins of riding due to huge pressures inside chain, you have the same amount of wax left coating parts anyway
@@zerofrictioncycling992 jeeze, I just googled it, that's awful.
I'll try it at about 70C, and see how it goes.
I tried linklife for motorbike chains, but it's really gooey, I can't see how it keeps dirt out, it felt nice for about 50 miles but is wearing off now.
Thanks
How many uses can you guys get out of a shimano 12speed quick link?
i personally generally stay with around 5, any link. It is easy to feel when locking in the link is too easy. Ie they need a tool to start with, but by around 5 - it is easy to do by hand. When it is locking or able to undo easily, a new link is a good idea. A local pro tested ybn qrs 11 and it failed on its 42nd re use - the shimano would at least match that - but such behaviour is not advisable! A fail link may not just be inconvenient, you may go over the handle bars if on stand up power, chain may wrap in back wheel and do all sorts of exciting things etc. So erring on safer is good vs pushing re uses.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 makes sense thanks for your reply.
I have been waxing the chain for a few years now. I always ultrasonic clean it in hot soapy water for about 40 minutes, rinse in warm water, blot dry, and bake out any water for an hour at 170 degree F. That way it is very clean when it hits the wax in the Crock pot on low. I have found that the newly waxed chain takes multiple rides to acquire the lower drag. One thing that negates the cleanliness benefit but strangely massively reduces chain drag is to add about 10-20 drops of NFS lube to the newly waxed chain. The combination make the difference for me of not getting dropped on my fast group rides. Subjective, but to me very tangible. You then have to dry wipe the accumulated debris and reapply a small amount of NFS again each ride. But it is worth it because the combination is strangely synergistic.
Hi William - alas no your NFS is not reducing your drag, it will be increasing it. Part of why wax is so fast is that after it has been ridden circa 30 mins and wax fully broken in, the wax surfaces on all parts of chain are highly polished. All parts are now sliding on a solid super slippery coating of wax. There is lowest stiction, and zero viscous friction. NFS tested in friction facts as respectable - 5.5w from memory, mswpeedwax original formula 4.4w, no doubt new formula is a good bit quicker. So you will be adding drag vs wax. And then more so as it gets contaminated. No doubt you need to do a lot of cleaning from this before re waxing, so that is a lot of time and effort to add drag. Subjective feelings on this topic are pretty rife. Lets say by some strange interaction you did reduce friction adding NFS to wax - what is going to drop to from 4.6w? Lets say it is 1w, which is a pretty significant 20%+ friction reduction. Are you saying 1w is the difference for you being dropped or not on fast group rides? I can tell you quite categorically it is not..........
All you are feeling is the silky smooth dampening of a very dampening wet lubricant vs what a solid lubricant feels like. This feeling is not a feeling of extra speed, just like the high frequency vibration of running your tires at 140psi is not faster vs the correct pressure.
Lastly on cleaning for those reading - i keep stressing this especially if riding in dry conditons - JUST RE WAX. It is a solid lubrication. Contamination penetration is so tiny. Boiling water flush rinses or ultrasonic cleaning post dry riding - is 99% a waste of time and effort, only bother post wet rides to flush clean, dry, re wax.
Apologies william if this reply seems to be shooting down recommendations (probably because i am) - but please be wary re spreading such information - there is so, so, so, so much miss information pumped out about chain waxing and chain lubrication, i work very hard to try to correct. You are not going to make your wax faster by adding a slower wet lubricant and a watt or two difference in chain friction (you can use your own bike calc - online calculators for watts / weight / speed calcs) is not even remotely making the difference on you being dropped or not on a ride. I encourage you to do your own deeper dive and logic to check before posting recommendations to cyclists so as to be one who posts great recommendations, not miss information recommendations that would be detrimental to the cyclists who follow, i am sure that is not what you are wanting to do.
After watching Josh's video from Silca, he mentions to let the wax cool to start forming a film before taking the chain out, to leave as much wax as possible in the chain.
You don't seem to do that, do you think it makes a difference ?
No i dont. I have spoken to josh re that as it differed from previous knowledge discussing with Jason Smith of friction facts. Basically the pressures inside chain from pedalling load are extremely high, and so removing and hanging to set on a 40dg C day, or putting in cold water to lock in as much as possible, 10 mins down the road you will have the same amount of wax inside the chain, just a lot more mess with the latter method. Josh advised that their testing on their very accurate test machine does show a performance difference, however it is ...... marginal. Outside an extremely precise test lab and extremely controlled conditions, i cannot see anyone being able to determine a difference in treatment performance or longevity - however as a possible best practice prep..... maybe.... i very very rarely disagree with josh but on this one i think there are much more practical marginal gains like dedicated race and training chains, dedicated race wax pot etc etc for those who want to have top performing race chain. I personally would not introduce my wax chain to water voluntarily.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Greetings from San Francisco USA. A HUGE THANK YOU for all the evidence based reliable and repeatable solid information. I have viewed all of your vids and have started hot immersion waxing my chains. I'm not a racer and any additional W savings would appreciated but not necessarily noticeable by me. However your information regarding the amount of chain and drivetrain wear using wax vs. oil based lubricants was astonishing, and convinced me that hot immersion waxing is well worth the modest effort. The replacements cost of worn chains and drivetrain components have increased significantly and due to COVID related supply chain issues, bicycle parts remain difficult to obtain. Be well...
lol he is only saying that so you use more wax and have to buy more ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@orgazmick now that you mention it 🤣🤣🤣
Dear Zero Friction, My wax has fine black stuff after about 6 or 7 uses. How should I clean the chain when rewaxing?
Hey stuart - what wax are you using? if its mspeedwax or hot melt, the fine black stuff is the tungsten disulphide, so that is normal. It will be present from the start, maybe it is just more noticeable after a few waxes as some is pressed onto sides of plates / cogs etc. You shouldnt be cleaning chain before re waxing. If you find it is unsightly for you, after swishing and removing and hanging to set, then use a cloth to wipe outside of chain to remove excess from outside of chain. it is wear protective on sides of cog and ring teeth but again if you find unsightly, a quick attack with a very stiff nylon brush (or quick spray with ufo drive train clean, allow a few mins to work, stiff brush and wipe) - but in general the small build up on cassette and rings is recommended to leave - it is pretty self limiting and again unlike many drip lubricants where the build up can be abrasive (wet lubes), a small build up of a very slipper wax + friction modifier is wear protective instead.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thank you! I confess I'm using paraffin wax I had around the house. Now that I'm hooked I plan to up my wax game to one of the modern mixes. Thank you again
Thanks Adam!
Three'ish simple questions:
1. If a rider purchases a new bike and wants to use a pre-waxed chain, will they need to degrease the front chainring, rear cassette and rear derailleur pulleys first to remove factory/LBS lubricant?
2. Does the degreasing of these components need to be fastidious?
3. If a rider uses a pre-waxed chain, should they always remove and dismantle the rear derailleur pulleys to lubricate the pulley bearings, rather than squirt lubricant around the seals every now and then? How should they approach lubricating derailleur pivot points?
If anyone is interested, Adam answers questions 1 and 2 in Episode 6.
Time to buy my wife a new slow cooker now I think!
I melted some teflon into some prarfin and put it the oven for 30 minutes then boil it in linseed oil or lamp black graphite. If I use the oven it takes about half hour with kerosene gel. Drip it on with a spunge and wipe it off with a rag. The parafin works as a binder and a lubricant so you can use WD-40 or silicone based cleaner without risking a total wipe off.
Goodness me. Over the years i have had about 4.6 billion emails of variances of the above re DIY waxing. I really, really just recommend a bag of msw. It will be much better. It will be VASTLY easier. Check episode 17, waxing - concise version, and if that isnt a whole lot easier and proven amazing performance vs above..... For those reading, do not wax in your oven. Please. This can end badly.
I’ve been using squirt lube. Do I need to clean my chain 100% before using molten speed wax for the first time or can my squirt lubed chain go right into the molten speed wax slow cooker pot?
He goes over this in the earlier videos. You will have to clean it and Squirt is more complex to get off. A mix of white ethanol (or whatever you call it) and hot water later. He gives a explenation.
What to do with a brand new chain?
All opinions I've heard so far say to get a brand new chain, strip all of the manufacturer's grease and then wax it, before using it, straight from the packaging.
In your MucOff video I heard you mention the manufacturer's 'break in' grease on a new chain. Got me thinking,...
Wouldn't waxing it immediately, without any break-in, cause the 'broken in' particles to be retained in the wax in the chain innards and for them to remain inside, if it's just re-dipped, not deep-cleaned/de-waxed? I can't see these particles being a 'good' thing.
Should a brand new chain be ridden a short distance, say ten miles to help break it in and smooth all of the contact surfaces together before stripping all of the manufacturer's grease (and tiny metal particles from the break-in) and then waxing it?
This would be similar to driving a new car gently for a few thousand miles before getting an oil change.
Or, are the tolerances so small and any particles produced so negligible so as not needing a break-in?
Not heard any discussions regarding this. Thanks.
Hey there - for training chains - yes correct there may be a very small amount of metal particles left from mfg when doing normal prep of stripping factory grease and waxing from the box. However the impact of this would never be able to be tangible measured by one re chain with break in before cleaning = X kms to 0.5%, chain without = Y kms to 0.5% - there are far more variances in your actual riding outdoors vs a very very small amount of metal particles not cleaned out via normal method.
For full race optimised chains they do have a break in first. However fully optimised chains are also professionally ultrasonically cleaned. If you look to do this at home without a good ultrasonic and how to use properly - the contamination the factory grease absorbs in your break in - will your perfectly remove all of that as well as the metal with container cleaning to make a break in worthwhile.
In short there is just zero tangible benefit to doing a break in for training chains. For professionally prepped / very well prepped at home via ultrasonic - for full race optimised dedicated race chain, then yes break in with factory grease before cleaning process will help make that chain as fast as it can possibly be on race day. However that is still more getting the chain "broken in" vs any potentially measurable difference from the very small amount of extra metal particles removed. It will not be nothing - at a guess as no one can ascertain exactly what is doing what - but break in typically will make a chain 0.5 to 1w faster vs non break in (chain brand / model affects a lot - some chains are looser, some are very tight) - of which maybe say 10 % of that is metal particle removal and 90% is simply getting the chain surfaces broken in (which will generate more metal particles, but the ultrasonic rounds take care of that).
Hope that helps!
@zerofrictioncycling992 Wow, that's a superb answer. Thank you for taking the time to reply, much appreciated. I won't need to worry about my new, newly waxed chains now!
Keep up the excellent work and all the best!
Sheldon Brown says on his website that bushingless chains are significantly less susceptible to chain stretch or wear.
This seems like valuable information that is not getting the attention it deserves.
Are KMC X8(99) chains bushingless? Are any other KMC chains bushingless? Or other, non-KMC chains?
Hi Vive - hmmmm sort of. Firstly it isn't getting that much attention as 99.9% of chains are already bushingless. Basically only 1/8th single speed or track chains are bushing chains, i do not know of any 3/32 or 11/128 chains that are bushing chains. A bushing is not going to increase elongation wear directly, you just have a bushing running over pin, then roller over the bushing. Nothing changes from the pins perspective re wear load, nor the bore of the bushing. what does happen is that these chains are much more difficult to ensure lubricant is penetrating too the pin. Some chain lubricants have penetration issues (like squirt) some do not for non bushing chains, but may to some degree on a bushing chain. So lack of lubrication deep inside chain can have them wear more quickly.
Also, most bushing chains are cheap as. IF one is spending $10 to $30 on a 1/8th chain thats 400 grams of steel, i can assure you the pin / bushing have no treatments against wear like say a quality 11spd 11/128 chain that is $70, has 40% less steel - they will have hardening treatments on pins as well as chromium plating etc - they are just a much much higher quality chain in ever way. If you spend half or 1/3rd or less the money for a lot more steel, i can assure you, you are buying crapper steel.
Again this is only a thing that an extremely, extremely small % of cyclists need to learn about, and the knowledge is there on the track chains product page on zfc website - but it isnt something that i can focus a lot of time on as there is so much other knowledge im trying to get out to save the huge % of drivetrains from an early death, bushing chains are just a teensy tiny demographic, i would sell one 1/8th chain per thousand 11/128 chains. And the 1/8th chain i do recommend (the ybn 410) is also bushingless for oh so many benefits re lubrication, faster as less friction surfaces etc.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Interesting stuff. Thank you.
It seems you're OK with reusing the master link. I have read on some sites that they should not be reused. Is there a controversy about this?
I wouldnt say controversy - but yes most mfg state links are single use, and some will not wish to go against this official instruction, some will. I have a guide covering this (master link FAQ guide - instructions tab, page 8) if you want a deeper read. In short - some links are re useable (ie YBN QRS links - 5x re useable), or wippermann connex - re use for life of chain. For single use links - if one is not keen to re use, then they should go with hybrid approach of wax, re lube with wax compatible lubricant (UFO drip, silca ss drip, tru tension tungsten all weather) for next 5 re lubes, then re wax to reset any contamination starting to build, and use a new link. The combo approach is very popular these days since the above lubricants on the market that one is perfectly fine to re wax without any need to clean first - not only saves on links use, but also takes the pressure of for many re rewaxing every re lube. Immersive waxing everytime will always be king, but the combo gets you very close and so is just a great path for many whom would find re wax everytime too much.
If you re wax a chain after lots of miles aren't you putting the dust , dirt and grime back into the wax pot ?
Yes correct. The main differences are - 1) as the wax is solid, it attracts / absorbs a lot less contamination than most other options - most especially wet lubricants. Then remember most on drip lubricants just re apply more drip lubricant, they dont flush clean chain after each ride. An application may be typically 3 to 5ml. Onto over 100 links of chain. That is 0.03 to 0.05ml per link. Often of which half may be carrier that evaporates off, leaving half that amount as actual lubrication added. That only does so much re changing the ratio of contamination to lubrication in the chain. A ratio that continues to degrade obviously over more riding until one should really intervene and reset contamination at some point. With waxing you are putting chain back in to a bath of circa 500ml of 100% lubricant. Yes over time the contamination will build in the wax and it wont be as amazing as new - but you can do the math it takes a long long time and oh so many waxings indeed before what is happening in the wax pot to resemble even a mild version re what is happening with drip lubricants. All one needs to do is periodically change to a fresh bag of wax (circa 10,000km road, 5000km offroad) - and things are golden. every re wax does a great reset of any contamination in chain, for no cleaning maintenance. It is just easier all up vs harder as many think, it is day in day out lower friction and much lower wear - hence why it is still always advised as best option for those whom waxing is for them. which is most these days now that may silly myths are being busted! :)
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks , makes sense .
That groupset alone costs more than my bike.
Thats because i save so much money on drivetrain wear! :)
I'm a total lazy ass. I wash factory lube off with paraffin. Then a hot wax soak. Subsequent washes are in hot wax only. I change the wax for clean wax yearly.
James pls, this is not the channel for you. I work very hard to put out the proven best information. Advice for techniques that have a very high chance of being comparatively terrible - pls take them to other more suitable channels. Pls do not continue to spread such advice here.
ZFC does not recommend trying to remove a grease with a paraffin wax. It will remove some. What remains will be a gunky mix of grease and wax. And this will contaminate wax in the pot. Perhaps james find this lubricant great. vs the cleaning instructions and recommended proven top products by zfc - which will not be contaminated with grease following instructions - your outcome will be vastly more pleasing.
James free speech / opinions etc welcome, but please understand how hard i work to try to dispel and correct frankly terrible information and advice from oh so many channels. As such, i would really like to ask to pls refrain from information such as "i just do this!!" that i then need to take more time to try to ensure such advice is correct. If you must perpetuate such things, pls do on other more suitable channels where such advice abounds.
Save some 💰 and use water bath instead of those fancy slow cookers.
Hey goddess, water bath? Prices may vary in countries of course but most places a small slow cooker is $20, and one can just put on low - and beauty re perfect temp. Once people move to stoves, putting a container into another pot with water etc - it just increases the faff a lot, and already many worry about how much faff there is with immersive waxing. Keep every step as simple as, and a $20 pot will last many many years.... that is still the zfc recommendation. Oh and of course i recommend this due to the enormous kickbacks i get from the slow cooker / crock pot cabal.
Great video, but skip to 8 minutes unless you need 8 minutes of repetitive talk on slow cookers.
sorry bout that, i will try to improve! :)