Horizontal spring double wishbone suspension
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2021
- The double-wishbone suspension can be referred to as "double A-arms", though the arms themselves can be A-shaped, L-shaped, or even a single bar linkage. A single wishbone or A-arm can also be used in various other suspension types, such as variations of the MacPherson strut. The upper arm is usually shorter to induce negative camber as the suspension jounces (rises), and often this arrangement is titled an "SLA" or "short long arms" suspension. When the vehicle is in a turn, body roll results in positive camber gain on the lightly loaded inside wheel, while the heavily loaded outer wheel gains negative camber.
Between the outboard end of the arms is a knuckle. The knuckle contains a kingpin for horizontal radial movement in older designs, and rubber or trunion bushings for vertical hinged movement. In newer designs, a ball joint at each end allows for all movement. Attached to the knuckle at its center is a bearing hub, or in many older designs, a spindle to which the wheel bearings are mounted.
To resist fore-aft loads such as acceleration and braking, the arms require two bushings or ball joints at the body.
Double wishbone suspension in action as on display at the Toyota Museum in Nagoya, Japan
At the knuckle end, single ball joints are typically used, in which case the steering loads have to be taken via a steering arm, and the wishbones look A- or L-shaped. An L-shaped arm is generally preferred on passenger vehicles because it allows a better compromise of handling and comfort to be tuned in. The bushing in line with the wheel can be kept relatively stiff to effectively handle cornering loads while the off-line joint can be softer to allow the wheel to recess under fore-aft impact loads. For a rear suspension, a pair of joints can be used at both ends of the arm, making them more H-shaped in plan view. Alternatively, a fixed-length driveshaft can perform the function of a wishbone as long as the shape of the other wishbone provides control of the upright. This arrangement has been successfully used in the Jaguar IRS. In elevation view, the suspension is a 4-bar link, and it is easy to work out the camber gain (see camber angle) and other parameters for a given set of bushing or ball-joint locations. The various bushings or ball joints do not have to be on horizontal axes, parallel to the vehicle centerline. If they are set at an angle, then anti-dive and anti-squat geometry can be dialed in.
In many racing cars, the springs and dampers are relocated inside the bodywork. The suspension uses a bellcrank to transfer the forces at the knuckle end of the suspension to the internal spring and damper. This is then known as a "pushrod" if bump travel "pushes" on the rod (and subsequently the rod must be joined to the bottom of the upright and angled upward). As the wheel rises, the push rod compresses the internal spring via a pivot or pivoting system. The opposite arrangement, a "pull rod", will pull on the rod during bump travel, and the rod must be attached to the top of the upright, angled downward. Locating the spring and damper inboard increases the total mass of the suspension, but reduces the unsprung mass, and also allows the designer to make the suspension more aerodynamic. 
Авто/Мото
Hats off to the cameraman who held camera in that tough situation.....
Can we get a moment of silence for that man
This made my eyes full of tears
Alright this concept is getting old now , get something new guys!!!
@@lilu2580 shadap. Big L
mad props
Okay guys, I think I figured out how this works.
If you know cars, you know this is definitely not double wishbone, it’s just a trailing arm/swing arm. Not familiar with peugeot, but I believe this is a 206. The 206 used torsion bars and a shock that ran back and up towards the rear of the car. This guy took the torsion bars and shock out and just used the shock’s mounting point on the trailing arm to run a rod up to the rocker that controls the coilovers. Changed it to a cantilever setup for ease of tuning and adjustability he’d have. Pretty genius.
Edit: the torsion bars still look like they’re in lol
I knew something was off.
And a qick question, is a double wishbone with only torsionbars still a double wishbone?
Imo it is because the spring doesn't usually tell what type of suspension a car has.
@@tunk_2ton168 alot of pickup trucks use double wishbone suspension in the front with torsionbars, but in this video it is just a trailing arm for the rear suspension
@@averyw6482 The old Mercedes ML used the same torsion bar setup too.
@@averyw6482 yea i know that but i just want to know
Yeah I have a Citroen that has similar suspension as the 206 but I still don't get it how he connected a rod from the swing arm to the rocker arm I mean they move in different directions. It must be so genius that I can't get it😂😂
Edit: ok I got it now I just checked where the shock mount is and how it compresses the shock. Basically when the wheel goes up, the mount "moves backwards" so it makes it possible for this setup to work at this angle
I wish we could see the working point of the cantilever. (Vertical to horizontal mechanisms.)
Agreed
...there's another pivot point or joint, that allows this kind articulation in the suspension system, it's definitely not visible in this video... but I could be wrong 🤔
the video and the animation don't provide enough evidence of how this works.
Im an ASE Master Tech and auto instructor, and never having seen a Peugeot with this suspension im glad other posters were able to identify it so i could see what was actually changed. I think it's a pretty ingenious way to work within the space constraints. For a racecar it's probably not MUCH easier than just cutting/fabbing bodywork to make for a more conventional shock/coilover placement (probably tie into a cage also being built), but there are probably classing reasons not to do that. Creative use of a bellcrank and some empty space. Looks very easy to service/change springs, too. I like it.
True. Wait until those shock assembly bolts rust and get stuck in those bushings lol. I hope they were generous with anti-seize on those guys.
this is a fix to work within class rules that prohibit changes in chassis (except roll cage obviously) allows use of coilovers where OE design uses torsion bars and improves damper ratio
a pigeon.
Отлично- центр тяжести за счёт этого опускается ниже, да, и замена, ремонт проще в разы👋👋
This setup would be awesome if one wanted to replace a torsion bar suspension with an IRS
The sound this thing makes is pure joy
Interesting how that entire wheel is being held on with that one little bar😂
Have you ever seen the rear trailing arm of some Peugeot?
@@agoradacerto I think nope
Old Porsche's have a similar suspension system
Maybe forged ...
Seems dangerous AF
It looked like is was about to coil bind. In my sport that’s a perfect spring.
Oh yeah the mystical Semi-Trailing-Push-Bone.
This thing sounds absolutely amazing. I just don’t people that like nothing but V8s. This is music to the ears of true car lovers that enjoy all configurations.
"just don't people"? Maybe if you're feeling clever, form a coherent sentence. You know, while you're feeling all superior.
@@dan1906 I missed a word. But it appears you may have trouble filling in the blanks with deductive reasoning. It was “get” if that helps you reach a conclusion.
@80PercentAshamedOfU You missed the point, which isn't surprising. With a pompous attitude you brought up a topic that wasn't even in discussion, just to rag on people you feel are beneath you. That's why I called you out. Sad that I have to spell it out. The shame is on you.
Peugeot 106 S16
I do enjoy the sound of a four banger trying it’s damnest
That arm is strong enough. Unbelievable.
Dang I really like this, I wonder how it could be altered to leave room for half-shafts, it could be really good for rwd swaps, lot less cutting and messing with the strut towers, only finding drilling spots and welding supports (in the best situation).
Преимущество:не отнимаеть полезнего пространства. Но в этом плане остаётся эталоном Ситроен де шво!
That sounds really nice btw
Man, that thing sounds good 👍
That's what's up that was the first thing I noticed along being a interesting setup as well
Больше не будет нагрузки на стаканы, которые вечно лопаются от ям... Здорово!
на бмв намекаеш ?
Aint double wishbone. Was so confused for a sec. Lol
Thats an awesome design, but the spring rate is a bit soft. Almost at full bump on excelleration. Remarcable design though
That look so cool
That's called cantilever not double wishbone. Either way very interesting to see it in action
bro this is really cool
Looks a little fragile for intense accelerations in non suspended mass (potholes, bumps)
looks weak AF at the hub lol. like big yikes
@@GalaxyVette this will be more than adequate strength wise, especially for the rear axle of a lightweight FWD car, it doesn't experience huge forces. *Could* suffer with deflection under heavy lateral load but still wouldn't buckle. There are many factory setups with "skimpier" designs than this.
I wanna see how that works. I wanna see the other side of that arm that's pushing the trailing arm/lower control arm down to lift the car.
That'd be cool to mound bags sideways under a mini truck. Or even sideways in the bad
Very Cool Design.
Did someone ate the wish bones? Isn't it a horizontal cantilever suspension? Why the variable caster angle? Isn't the axle attached to a single swing arm? Nice for a lower center of gravity, not nice for all the stress on that swing arm axis.
Correct - this is not double wishbone at all; it is a stock Peugeot trailing arm, with a complex added shock linkage.
サスペンションの動きも唆るが、エキゾーストがまた素晴らしい。
Nice work
Buddy this is still the peugeot swing arm suspension you just changed the position of the spring it won't actually change anything.
Double wishbone has 2 control arms connected to a knuckle with a coil spring over shock absorber attached to either the knuckle itself or the lower control arm going up and down in a straight line. This is a pushrod suspension setup on an old peugeot swing arm rear axle. It's not a double wishbone.
Yes! I'm looking for mor detail, cause the original Peugeot uses a torsion bar as spring.
but how coils were rotated to horizontal position? How up n down direction getting left to right?
@@YuriKruglov there's a pushrod suspension kit for peugeots. Gor 205s i think. Look up "pushrod suspension kit for peugeot"
@@rezavarghayi8181 thanks a lot!
@@agoradacerto This is an aftermarket kit for the Peugeot suspension which keeps the original torsion bar spring and adds a coil on the relocated shock absorber.
F1 also uses hor. spring suspension. Citroen's Hydro-pneumatic also but use gas-liquid hi pressure sphere instead.
Old F1s, now they use torsion bar suspension
@@bigpig187 "torsion bar" is also a spring. F1 still uses "horizontal springs". They used to be pushrod 10 years ago but now they changed to pull rod style geometry thats prob the only major difference compared to 10 years ago which they were still using torsion springs back then as well. They ditched coil springs a loong time ago but the point stands, torsion springs are also placed horizontally just like the coil springs in this video
If that spring was doing all the work, it would be massive.
It's not - the original torsion bar is still in place. But a coil-over with a 1:1 wheel rate (it moves the same distance as the wheel) doesn't need to be very big.
Very nice!
Hi, Can you please do another video to explain this more? The animation does not seem to relate to the real thing.
Right. The animation does not match the video at all. The video seems to suggest a trailing arm arrangement.
@@terencehawkes3933 Thank you.
@@terencehawkes3933 Correct - the suspension in the video is a single trailing arm per side, not double wishbone at all. Only the shock linkage (which doesn't change suspension geometry at all) is similar to what is in the animation.
please show how the verticle wheel motion is converted into horizontal motion in the damper. Its looks great, but I dont see the mechanism in the video.
Ниже оси качания рычага колеса втулка , от нее идет тяга на рычаг, на котором крепится амортизатор
Love the ingenuity, comment would be, shocks work most efficiently in a vertical position
KTM xbow and Ariel atom say NO!
And the hoonicorn, several old f1 cars, I’m sure a couple of paganis and koeniggseggs too
A gas-charged shock work equally well in any orientation. It only needs to be vertical if it is a traditional twin-tube design with the outer volume as an unpressurized reservoir.
F1 disagree,
haha, ¿base on what do you say that?
a car is not a pogo, you know?
@@Xayuap what are you on about
Respect cameraman 👏👏😱
Now this can easily be integrated with AI based system that can read the 3D mad of the road just ahead and a motor with counter/compensating force can work the arm right in place of the spring(or along with it) so the the vehicle/chassis itself remain in the same position with respect to the road
What are the advantages and disadvantages of this setup compared to normal coilover setup? (Nice Vid)
Compact but requires more moving parts so less reliable ( don’t take my word do your own research)
Only space, this arm have not Camber setup went the car rolls....
Not just space, but it can lower un-sprung weight, and also bring your center of gravity inwards or lowering the CG like we see here too.
coilovers have a limited stoke length, so you have to set the shocks harder to keep from bottoming out which also causes the shock to run hotter.
@@thehurt33 that is true
this is pretty pretty, actually
For fast road , which is unpredictable surface does movements of the vehicle sift to left and right. Can ossurlatjon occur. M1 Ghost.
this type of suspension is known as Push-Rod suspension found in high-end sport cars and F1s, it is quite uncomfortable on the streets, as it is meant for the track.
And quite fragile ive heard.
If you want to see a crazy suspension look up Maier racing in Hayward California. He has a 1965 Mustang with a rear suspension that you have to see to believe. It is an autocross winner over and over. The suspension is in the trunk.
sounds like a Honda, but it's the best sounding Honda I've ever heard if it is
okay guys i think i figured out how this works. I, on the other hand, who do not speak English, did not understand how it works or the advantage. they are also of the opinion that the more joints there are, the greater the risk of breakage, especially in the off-road field. I apologize for the automatic translation
Im dumb but I wanna know what are the pros and cons of making this suspension setup. It's really interesting
Its compact, competitive, light. Also complex, fragile and less reliable.
First time seeing this type of system 🙃
Wow! Very nice play, do you have a video how to installed suck absorber
Seems like a lot of stress on that joint.
Is the angle of motion all on one spot?
Would be nice to see the mechanics of this.
If I'm not mistaken this was once a Peugeot/Citroen rear axle. So no Toyota in this video, despite your description.
So a single trailing arm with a torsion bar as a spring, an anti-roll bar through the center connected to the other trailing arm and a shock absorber for each trailing arm.
I don't really see the 'double wishbone' configuration here, rather a system of turning the vertical movement of the trailing arm into a horizontal movement in order to... create more adjustment ability?
Classic double wishbone can be found and easily seen on cars like Caterham 7, Donkervoort and even F1 cars.
क्रांतिकारी अविष्कार 🙏🙏🙏🙏👍👍👍
Интересная подвеска👍
Now this is what i call ASMR
Hope you aren't too attached to your wheels, hubs and brakes. They will soon leave the vehicle hi and dry. Aside From how easily this would be snapped completely from it's mounts I'm looking at the diameter of bearings asked to support such dynamic loads and know their service life is very short. Most children's toys have more robust components.
Nice
This is a moded peugeot suspension
cameraman always be safe😇
very interesting
what if only 1 suspension is used for both wheels there?
I think shocks from one side would transfer to the otherside creating a unstable effect. could be wrong though.
えええええー！！！
すごい！！
My brain hurts just looking at this
Awesome no any single vibrations to fitted camera
nice
Привет всем самодельщикам и изобретателям 🙋♂️🤝👍💪. Заходите в гости...
Serious question. Am I missing something. I don't see any wishbones or a arms at all. This looks more like a leading or trailing link.
It's very interesting...
What software is this in the top cormer
Sweet
Is this reliable over time if you drive a lot over road bumps and such?
No.
Why noone is talking about the amazing exhaust sound of this car? What car is that btw?
А на чем колесо держится? Типа на воздухе и одном линке?)))
a colin satchell pushrod setup on a torsion bar suspension.
Does this mean you can lower the car even more and still have suspension travel?
Even lower rider u said???
Для ровной трассы пойдёт.
This design would make for easier suspension maintenance and also increased seating spacing for passengers with big bums.
I didnt see any bump stops or movment limiting devices. Otherwise a nice set up
Не плохая идея компактно .
Thanks for al informo
This is a better well-placed Integrated Double Wishbone Suspensions with scales inexpensive, well-reinforced and more spatial-efficient fundmentals
It's not double wishbone at all - it's just a trailing arm suspension with a complex shock linkage.
@@brianb-p6586 That is still obviously a double wishbone on a trail arm fashion whilst those space saving here was the horizontal springs who provide less space to take the cabin much more space than the conventional Double Wishbone one
@@brianb-p6586
Alright I've recapped those possible structures and yet there is no top link enough to called a "Double Wishbone" even at the integrated structures were I've fail to find its top link and it is a missing part to called at "Trail Arm Double Wishbone with Horizontal Springs" and you are right that this may link at "Trail Arm Independent Suspension with Horizontal Spring"
But nevertheless, as those the same structure were the Trail Arm Link Double Wishbone Independent Suspensions with Horizontal Link are also possible at these time based from these integrated structures
Hand made Peugeot rear torsion bar?
How do I get my 4-cylinder to sound like this?
swap your car engine with motorcycle engine
@@riodwisaputraa I had a feeling that's what it was, lol.
I believe its just the peugeot 2.0
)
Chec on RUclips Peugeot 306 maxi (2l 16v engin)
How the hell the wheel going up makes the leverage push the spring to the right?
The trailing arm of the suspension has a shock mount extending down, near the pivot point. When the wheel goes up that point moves back, pushing the pushrod, which moves the crank, which pushes the shock and spring.
K chingon
That's sweet. Hold on 85mph?
Yes
Para la parte delantera me encanta para la trasera a 15 grados
This is awesome. What is the car?
waw fantastic video and technology
Wow keren👍👍
Is this the rear suspension? Don't see a steering mech
The wheel travels without bumps while simply accelerating - so that has to be load transfer to the rear susp right?
Cameraman is everywhere
This is horizontal spring (unsprung position) cantilever swingarm.
It looks like a Peugeot 106 suspension, where can I watch a drawing or a film of the creation of this pendant?
У меня на ауди 83года выпуска было проще сделано подруливание, не знаю на сколько оно хорошо помогало в сравнении с этой конструкцией
Это не подруливание...
What's the advantage of this
Did the car move?
Eso es un peligro cosa invento loca
i couldnt understand whether the wheel is front or rear
What car?? Sounds amazing
Vaz 2107😁😁😁
What transmission do you have?
I want this bike😎
El concepto es bueno pero se ve débil, puede que no lo sea pero aún así se ve débil, no me puedo imaginar si te vas en un hueco.