I'm at the stage in a refresh for the heads to go back on the motor. This video was really informative and from the research I did, this seems like the better way to go. Good stuff!
Ordered those scrapers and it's good to see someone else break out the out the autobody tools in a heavy duty shop I'm a heavy duty tech that grew up in a family bodyshop I will offer the advice that sanding blocks are most effective when use the 45 degree rule if your holding your sanding block parallel to the length of the head or block surface you sand in a 45 degree cross hatch or you have the sanding block on a 45 degree angle to the deck and sand parallel with the deck and change your paper often about 30 swipes by hand or 30 seconds with a sander. Thanks for the videos
I will never forget the plaque on the wall above and behind my shop teachers desk that read "If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?" That was 61 years ago when they still taught life skills in school.
I used to work in aviation and doing everything per the manual and standard industry knowledge was the thing. As a tech having a return from service was a black eye, or foot to the nuts if you messed something up that was preventable from the start. I had a plane back at the shop the next morning after an annual. The gear wouldn’t retract. My bosses were on it for half the day trying to figure it out. It wasn’t until I had a sudden memory of showing a dummy coworker the “emergency gear drop” cable under the pilots seat. The idiot pulled it. That almost had me canned, him walking out immediately with his tools, and me feeling like a fresh turd on a wet lawn. Safety and integrity in your work is key for the better of everyone. Your shop won’t have to lose money for repeat work it should have had done right the first time and the customer is safe with work well done. I should’ve checked the CO2 cartridge myself after, but that’s what trust in others gets you.
Yep I had just unloaded there about 25minutes earlier and asked the guy why do I smell somethin..30miles out I felt the wave hit me in the back of my seat I dodged that bullet.
I was born and raised in Vegas(still live here) and my oldest brother was in high school at VoTech HS when person blew up. He was walking around the east side of the building when it blew and he said it literally knocked the wind out of him as well as all the windows in The school. Vote him out was probably 4 miles from pepcon
I've had the exact same experience as you. Went to school learned that scrapers, elbow grease etc the correct way. Got out in the field, even asked others, "what's the best gasket prep?" to which I usually would hear, "the fastest. scotch brite discs". Anyway, perpendicular razor has the lowest damage potential, angled on aluminum will cut chunks. Wet sanding with fine grit and WD seems to get things clean fairly quickly. Also, with the straightedge, put it on the surface and shine a flashlight behind it, look at the straightedge from opposite side and... light can't pass if there isn't a gap.
Yup same here 20yr red seal. Use razor scraper and scotch paper not rolocs. Use a lath fine file and if you need it to be perfect try using Prussian blue where ever it remains is a low spot. Draw file to verify.
Been a while since I've done some engine work, got 2 454's in our boat. Pulled one head off. I came here to see what people are doing to prep. I've used rolocs back in the day. But have had an uneasy feeling about creating uneven surfaces. I believe you are spot on buddy, thanks for posting!
@@85jmccoy Oh don't be so naive. Everything is designed and built to a price point set by someone wayyyy above an engineer's paygrade. It's not the engineers you should be frustrated at...
Yep, diesel fuel works as a cleaner as well. Toilet brush and a bucket of diesel for first cleaning then finish off with some brake cleen. Good tip for anyone that's not getting a free supply of brake cleaner lol
@@johndowe7003 Diesel was all we had when I started, the firm was too tight to buy brake cleaner! Though it was trichloroethane at the time which apparently causes cancer, so maybe just as well.
@@andygilbert1877 yup we still use diesel to clean parrafin and oil off our rigs. The new style of diesel has a lot of surfactants so it's pretty much the same as soap. It's a game changer for small businesses and independent guys since it's a lost more cost effective.
@@johndowe7003 Yep, plus you’ve generally got loads of it! (I worked on heavy equipment & fork trucks) We’d use it as a freeing agent too...leaving seized stuff in it over a weekend rarely fails.
@@andygilbert1877 yep, dont forget to include shoving grease into holes with threads in them to protect the threads from the elements. i would always do that to equipment that i would put away for later . plus diesel is the best soap for hand washin, just dont forget to rinse off with dawn hah
@@AdeptApe Also: "It's better to be looking _at_ something, than looking _for_ something." I'd rather be looking at old material and taking my time, than looking for the metal I've just gouged out of the block with a disc. :-P
Ok quick question, this all sounds good and is good. But you are sanding down the block, is there a tolerance? I was told you aren't allowed to sand so that the tech height remains the same, lets say your just changing a head gasket
I’m a marine diesel tech, work on mtu man and cat. We clean decks the same way but if you use some wd 40 with some scotch bright pads after the sand paper it will shine the deck up good and pull a lot debri you can’t see by eye out
On the ways you should of been using a longer carbide scraper and making 0.002” deep pockets either cross hatch pattern or J-hooks. Do that on a block and you will have hundred of failure points for the gasket. A static seal of a gasket and creating oil pockets to sustain a film of oil for sliding surfaces are very different applications.
The guy at the machine shop I use (car engines) has told me he likes my prep (plastic scrapers, razor blades and aluminum free scrapers). He told me he has seen several blocks that need resurfaced because of people using roloc and causing low spots. I have yet to have a block that needs decked (SHOCKINGLY, I'm waiting for that run to be over). Didn't know the carbide scrapers existed. That's awesome. For what's it's worth, my last personal build I ended at 500 grit. Gaskets sealed perfectly fine.
I use a wheel on heavy gasket residue and then wd40 and a machinist stone to finish the block. I will definitely look into getting that carbide scraper, looks awesome. And coming from a military mechanic background I check everything with a straight edge because privates will find a way to ruin the engines so badly.... Also we have a saying "you always have time to do it right the second time!"
I started doing it the same way couple years ago after I watched a video on RUclips of a man flat decking an aluminum cylinder head with a straight edge and sandpaper . It got me to thinking about it .
Good video! - as an aircraft engineer we were trained to lap any flat surface- on a head or block the area between cylinder can be low causing a leak if not spotted
I am no mechanic myself but have taken some heads over the years to a machine shop to get skimmed to true it or valves/seats ground etc and I asked the owner of the shop what should I be using to clean the block deck with and he was adamant that I only scrape and do not use abrasive roloc's for the uneven mess they can create plus the abrasive dust, no sand paper, nor any form of hand type scotch brite pad because it has abrasive on it as well and claimed many an engine has been ruined just from those hand scotch brite pads. The problem he pointed out is that any abrasive that falls down into the engine which would be into the valley of a pushrod cam in block engine for instance or any oil passages within the block deck will end up pumping through the bearings and imbed themselves into the bearing and sooner or later bite you in the rear. Oh I imagine if the block was totally torn down and all oil gallery end plugs removed and dipped and so forth is one thing but its this top end work with the block in the piece of equipment that doesn't allow for complete cleaning. I feel the pain as well, picking away with a scraper and it never ends with taking minute quantities of gasket material off and wish there was a better way also. Adept Ape, I really enjoy your channel as do other farmers I know as you have a vast knowledge of Cat engines. With this frustrating gasket removal issue, how about you make it one of your missions to talk to various engine machine shops and if you know anyone higher up in the racing engine rebuild world, perhaps there are some secret methods most of us have never heard of.
You make a very good observation there and the balance of trying to properly prepare a gasket surface vs not getting any contaminates into the engine is an interesting topic. I would say at a machine shop it is an easier decision since everything is going to get hot tanked and properly decked. On an inframe rebuild or a field repair you are trying to do the best with what you can do. Now perhaps a better way is to just scrape the surfaces and the wipe them down, that would disturb the original machining marks the least, but perhaps miss some high spots or embedded gasket material? The topic of contaminates destroying engines is interesting as well, as every time a valve cover is removed dirt is getting into the engine. The particle size has a lot to do with how much damage it can cause as well. If the size is smaller than the bearing gap it has a tendency to not do damage as it can be flushed through the system without being wedged into the bearings, if the size is close to the gap size though it can cause the most damage. The larger the particle, the least likely it is to get past the screen and filter. Very interesting topic and I try not to take a dogmatic view on it as there are many good points to be discussed.
@@AdeptApe Thank you for the reply and also for not thinking I was trying to belittle anyone as topics like this can get people rather wound up because they have done a certain thing for years and can get their back against the wall to to speak to hear someone tisk tisk a practice. You are so right, the machine shop can very easily say do this or that because he has all the equipment to work with a complete tear down and isn't the one working on a head removal only or an inframe. Now unless I am wrong I believe that machine shop was pointing in part to the fact that some of the grit particles that find their way into the oil passages are "after" the filter and so the filter can't remove what doesn't come to it until it has flowed through the engine upon start up to then come back around to the sump and filter. And I am sure that different engines due to their design are going to be more or less susceptible to getting the abrasive into the wrong side of the oil system when cleaning off a deck. I had never seen a carbide scraper before, looks like an easier tool to work with then the razor blade that sure wants to catch on any edges or holes that don't have a chamfer. I have holders just like you showed and recently bought a long handled type handle but have yet to try it out. But believe me, I have been so tempted at times to pull out the roloc on the angle die grinder out of frustration and go to town on the project but have to hold myself back.
I started stoning my blocks during rebuilds. I got into using them after I started millwrighting. I was told by a old engine builder that those scotch bright wheels on a die grinder would take some metal away. I know for a fact you can stone for a hour straight and it wont take .001" off lol. we use them on turbine shells all the time. They will instantly show up any high spots you may have on a block. Anyhow, great video!
@@edbo10 no, what he meant was using a flat stone to deburr an engine blocks head gasket surface. If you have a known flat piece of clean polished metal, and a pair of precision ground abrasive stones, if you try to grind down that metal with your stone, it will never scratch /touch the metal at all. But, let's say you take a center punch and lightly tap the metal, and then rub the stone onto the metal where the center punch mark was made, the stone will instantly find the high spots and grind them away, leaving all the surrounding metal un touched.
This carries over for all engines 👍 With some engines such as the 3.6L Pentastar, the timing cover is notorious for leaking anywhere at 12k miles to 60k miles, eventually it'll leak. Guys I work with tend to use die grinders with sanding disks because it saves time...even though it calls for plastic and/or wood scrapers to get the three bond RTV off the surfaces of the engine and timing cover. With the sanding disks you run the risk of making low spots, not great for any type of gasket (RTV or not) and causing further problems. Takes way longer, but better to be done right the first time and not having comeback because you took mating surface material off.
Especially aluminum and thin castings, generally they are super expensive and easy to ruin. At least straight edge the part of you are going to use the die grinder, but that takes longer.
I USE A SURFACE STONE WHICH I HAVE HAD FOR 30 YRS FROM BUILDING STEAM TURBINES. IT WORKS GREAT ALONG WITH STRAIGHT EDGE ,FEELERS,WD-40 AND BRAKE CLEANER.THEY MAKE THESE STONES IN DIFFERENT SHAPES AND SIZES,SUCH AS TRIANGLES FOR REDUCTION GEARS AND GIANT QUILL SHAFTS. YOU HAVE GOOD VIDS,KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK OUR COUNTRY NEEDS THAT.
I started doing this a couple years ago. I too used the roloc but I ran into problems on a 3400 block and that was the turning point for me. It blows my mind how many technicians don't check the block and heads with a straight edge.
Yeah, I don't think I've ever caught one doing it in the couple shops I've worked on. Even when something leaks and comes back it was usually silicone that they used to fix it 🤯
8:00 The wooden handle " super scraper " . Carbide edge, awesome scraper. I keep in mind, any crud that goes down the cylinder, could end up in a rod journal oil passage. Cover the journal, or brake clean it out too.
24" long 3" aluminum 3/8" wall square tube with on side machined perfectly flat. Attach sandpaper to flat side and go to work. I use that tube for everything from gasket surfaces to butcher blocks.
Well done bro. Appreciate your humility and ability to adept (adapt) to less evasive cleaning methods. As I tell my guys “abrasives are the devil” when using them “on engine”. I’ve seen DYI guys as well as professionals ruin engines due to not being careful with their use. Keep up the good content
Great video! I used it to clean and check the block on my Triumph TR6. Was able to scrape off all the residue using about 15 single-edge razor blades, so didn't require the carbide scraper even though I ordered one. I bought a 100-pack of blades. They were sharper on one side than the other and the first few strokes with a new blade were really effective. Also used paint remover to soften up the gasket residue. Don't recommend that unless the block is out of the car as it's messy. Plain old paint scraper didn't do anything. Razor blades, sanding block & medium emery paper and accurate straightedge all that was necessary for me.
Great video it's about time someone put out a video addressing this having been a caterpillar mechanic for 20+ years started at the dealership and for the last 12 independent to many people think if has to be shinny metal before it's clean
They certainly don't help that metal shim seal any better, although the idea that it seals at all is amazing to me. Giving the block little low and high spots only makes it worse. Just use more aviation gasket sealant!
awesome tutorial. I just did the same on a iron block and was having doubts about it. good knowing I'm not the only one. Only thing i did diferently was using an orbital air sander with a 120g disc, and then used a block and by hand using medium low pressure and 150g paper. then I switched to 240g and that's it. it doesnt look too good but feels very smooth. Also I'm a bit experienced on bodywork and used to hand sanding and feeling how smooth a surface when passing the sanding block
Doing this after 40 years come to see if things have changed, they haven't this is old school and ill be doing it this way again, nice presentation thanks for the refresher. But I will be packing those holes to keep the debris out...
I agree with you. I used to clean same way as you and as I've gotten older changed to cleaning similar to this. I wouldn't suggest using air file. Leave the body work tools for the body men. Enjoy your videos as always
You would also expect the smooth polished surface the roloc wheel leave to be less effective in other words it would be expected to hold less side pressure prior to failing given a sanded surface leaves very small sharp ridges that would bite into the softer gasket material better preventing any slipping where there’s a narrow strip of bearing such as between cylinders
Agreed. I'm glad I read down far enough before I basically repeated your comment. Examine the surface of a separator plate as shipped, or a cylinder head in a yellow box. Pretty sure there is some bite designed into the surfaces there.
Live and learn. I had an apprentice use air powered die grinder with a abrasive pad on the mating surface on a ballscrew bearing housing on a rebuild job. I had a little talk with him about this. I gave him a lesson on how to use a stone.
Im a paccar and cummins tech, what i like to do on cylinder head/block deck is to spray some wd-40 or pb blaster( to each their own) leave it socking over night, and when i finally start working on it, use a scotch brite burgundy pad(150 grain) the ones i use at work are excellent, they are great for cleaning metal surfaces,use that pad to clean as much as i can from the block deck and once ive covered the whole area, then spray it down with the brake cleaner, after that use some soapy water( dawn is my preferred soap, i like doing this because it gets any dirt or debri of of the surface, then brake cleaner again, and use the scotch pad to clean any uneven surfaces, once everything is good, spray it down with some crc contact cleaner, this will remove any small material from the surface,thats my method, it has never failed, i mostly do this for cylinder head/block deck surfaces
I've started using a large granite footstone I picked up from a local monument company with various grits of sandpaper glued to it. It not only provides the needed weight for the paper to cut but also helps flatten raised areas for a more uniform surface. Me and William Martin (name of the stone) have done several blocks and heads and not a single one has ever leaked. I paid $40 for the foot stone and the guy threw in a smaller 1 foot square that the customer never picked up. If you're still using surface disc better be careful not to create a gouge between the liners.
I use the rol-lock for small flanges but nothing more. I replaced the head gaskets on my ford 4.6l and put clean oil soaked paper towels down in the piston bores and used a razor scraper and scotch brite by hand to clean the head gasket surface
It doesn't matter how light you are on the pressure, without a lapping block or a rigid sanding block, you are still going to have a slight "bowling" affect if you are sanding across the liner openings in the deck with the foam sanding block you are using. You may as well be using the scotchbrite pad. If you have a very large machine file, you could wrap your sandpaper around it. There will be less "bowling" affect with it.
I knew a guy who would "machine" has own aluminium cylinder heads. He got a huge thick block of glass and glued sand paper to it. Then he rubbed the cylinder head on it until it was flat. It worked.
I never used the rollock wheels for critical gaskets. Scrapers, quarter sheet sanding block and finish up with a 14 inch mill file without a handle laid flat.
Those are my preferred methods of cleaning and checking gasket surfaces also not because I was taught but through experience and a bit of common sense.
I have a precision a aluminum sanding block that I milled perfectly flat and true and I cover it with sand paper and I sand all my gasket surfaces using numerous grits of sandpaper. I also have a very nice set of precision parallels that I setup using a dial indicator to verify the surface.
After warm up I always let the engine cool to manufacturers specs and drain the water and break the bolts off and torque them again to yeild and always use a copper spray sealant on first instal and the gasket will never leak and will last for year's all my rebuilt engines are still going strong it's been 6 year's now on one rebuild I done I use plate glass and 80 grit 120 and 100 to level block and cylinder head using a strait edge and feeler gauges works a treat plus regrind the valve seats and valve stem seals and new springs and locker's.
Great topic, so often I’ve seen top deck destroyed by the users of these discs, in Australia these discs started to appear from the local Snap On man 20 years or so ago selling them out of their truck to all the local mechanics shops and dealerships, in the hands of an apprentice it would almost lead to failure every time, the worst one iv repaired required.017” stock removal to get back to a clean up, but hey it was shining, when they were used on the smaller petrol engines it wasn’t uncommon for them spinning con rod bearings after head work was recently done, the cause was the aluminium oxide from the disc getting into the oil after cleaning the top deck, it can’t be filtered and it’s abrasive, once again great topic, bottom line do not use these discs, wast of time and money.
Plus on newer engine the bearings are so much harder due to higher cylinder pressures. The aluminum and other debris from the whiz wheel will not embedd in the to bearings it will just spin a bearing.
I work on mostly light duty stuff. I start with brake clean and a carbide scraper. Then I use a knife sharpening stone that I keep soaked in transmission fluid. After it is thoroughly cleaned, I wipe it with lacquer thinner. Never had one come back.
@@AdeptApe It does. I did a stint at a dedicated engine shop for a couple of years. Long story. Mostly Cummins 5.9. Boss sucked, worked outside regardless, even took care of his pain in the ass dog when he was out of town. Dude can build an engine though. That laquer thinner takes it away man. Get a quart and try it.
I start out with a scraper then move to flat sanding. I have a 20lb square piece of granite that had been ground flat and smooth. The weight of the granite is enough to do the job, so I just have to go back and fourth in different directions with different grits of wet-dry paper.
When doing DIY paint and body work I was taught to run your hands over EVERY surface you sand as you go. To me at me least flat sanding and some touch/feel seems legit for a decent head/block mating surfaces making good sealing contact with a gasket. Shite and briney looks nice, but a proper seal and job brings longevity to the motor.
An old body guy taught me to use a thin cotton cloth like a t shirt between your hand and the surface. It somehow makes it easier to feel imperfections my bare hand missed.
Have worked for construction company's over the years and found that I usually own more wood chisel's then the finish carpenters do. Probably the best scraper short of the carbide that I have come up with. Run it over the oil stone and come up with a razor edge that is sharp enough to remove most of the contaminants on the surface, but soft enough to deform prior to damaging the block surface. Used very gingerly on aluminum. Have them from 1/2" wide thru 2 1/2 and find them better then any putty knife but longer lasting then razor blades.
You know I have heard of them being used for scrapers, but haven't tried them yet. Think I'm going to pick one up this weekend though now. What size do you use, wider the better?
@@AdeptApe Depends on surface. Smaller ones get in for tight area's where you don't want to disturb alot of crud around it where you're doing a field repair, larger ones work well in the shop. The stanley one's seem to be a bit harder then the buck brand from home cheapo but that may have changed in the last 10 years since I last bought one. Either brand you do want to have a good stone to hone it sharp, grinder wheel does not work worth shit for that. Keep up the good work, I do enjoy learning something new every day. Altho it's usualy how not to do it next tims! Leo
A new sharpening stone dedicated to flat surface prep works great as well. It shows any high points after a couple of passes especially around pulled bolt holes
Great advice. I got the whizzy wheel / cookies in the engine *bad* lesson a long time ago from a seasoned veteran tech. He said exactly the same things you said "think that gasket gives a shit if the deck is shiny"? Flat and clean is what matters most.
I picture him with a coffee cup in his hand and nicotine stained teeth for some reason. Perhaps that is because one of my seasoned tech trainers had that.
@@AdeptApe Spot on. Not freindly with everyone, but not mean either. Him and I got along well though because he said he saw alot of himself in me. I was working at a powered industrial equipment repair company, he taught me alot about hydraulics and electrical repairs, as well as base engine repair. Taught me to run a bead of weld on a stuck bearing race to shrink it for easier removal, as well as welding nuts to broken studs and bolts. Gave me a Jacobsen two stroke mower engine, still have it my garage, on the engine shelf. Hard to believe that was 20+ years ago.
I used a brand new knife sharpening block on my 5.9 Cummins worked good. Amazing how many high spots on the block I found and worked down flat with just the stone.
I've received a few comments on using those, as well a few saying to not use anything other than scrapers. I have a couple in my box for sharpened stuff and from my old straight razor days, but I think I'm going to try using them and see how they turn out. Thank you for the comment.
@@AdeptApe yes before I used it lightly scraped the sharp edges off the block with an old knife and cleaned it good after and had to keep cleaning it as I used it. Plugged my oil galleys with earplugs and razored the excess off before I started. They are tricky to remove sometimes so be careful
Don’t buy that car. That’s probably the same guy that put a gallon of methyl hydrate in every tank of gas to make his windshield wipers last longer. Lesson of the day: don’t do drugs while installing a cam shaft.
Carbide scraper and wipedown with cleaner. Chase threads, clean holes. Remove liners, clean out liner bores and crank. Wipe down again with brake cleaner, check flatness and measure bores. Install everything.
I was taught to just buzz it off with the die grinder, and then clean up all the swirls with a scotch brite. but I hate the idea knowing there's metal powder that is gonna make its way in small crevasses I can't see. Last head gasket I did I only used brake clean and a scotch brite and it was actually very effective when I used the scotch brite pad around a block of wood, and kept dowsing the deck surface with brake clean. I wanna try using plastic razor blades next time and see how it goes
Deboss Garage had guys from down under (The skid factory) over to the DB shop. The one Aussie finish planed a 6BT block with a whet stone, by hand, like you use to sharpen knives.
I ran a cylinder head resurfacing machine for three years the roloc wheel will knock cast iron out about two and a half thousands of an inch I'm in aluminum head it can be up to 10,000 roloc is the worst razor blades Scotch-Brite and brake cleaner you got it right
I remember taking a factory Cummins ISX class and at that time Cummins made it very clear that rolocs and scotch brite were unacceptable for cleaning any mating surface. Especially heads and blocks. They were finding that the abrasive material and debris was ending up in the engine and in some cases plugging oil passages. Local dealer trainer said their techs would get written up if caught doing this.
I would use a pneumatic long sander. A body and fender supply house would carry a nice model. That will help with the heavy crap. End up with the hand flat sander.
I always use a razor blade scrapper then use the wheel. I spend about 15 mins with the razor then 25 mins with the wheel and straight edge them to .002 as well and have never had any issues. I also do that with aluminum heads and blocks (I use the blue pads for aluminum) also use magnaflux to check for cracks when I'm working with aluminum.
I like sanding blocks and stones. Im picking up one of those super scrapers. Tbe roloc bristle discs are more of a time saver in a shop turning out quantities but they are expensive and never true.
I always use the grey rolocs and then finish with the carbide scraper. Love that thing I'll be keeping the flat sanding method in mind though, that could come in handy.
I worked 2 years in an engine machine shop. We used wire cup wheels, but always careful not to eat into the metal. And most blocks or heads were getting resurfaced anyway, though quite a few weren't and it wasn't an issue. I do like your method though, using a wire wheel makes a big mess and I wouldn't do it to an engine that isn't fully disassembled and getting jet washed. Lots of places I wouldn't want pieces of wire going on an in frame rebuild.
you can see where the sander is hitting the high points. Thats where the gasket will be compressed the most. The lower areas will allow liquids to seep in
Josh, no need to go past the 100 grit for a head gasket. The surface needs a certain roughness. The gasket needs that roughness to keep from slipping. Most all machined surfaces have a recommended rma. Simply put rma is a measurement of the surface roughness. You may well know this, but others may not. I appreciate you making this, and all your videos. Really helps everyone trying to learn about their engines.
I always tell the younger techs and managers... why is there always time to do it over but never enough time to do it right!
Your so correct!! I'm so done with half-ass ZIP tie and duct tape fixes
@Gilbert Ike good for you..now you know she is not interested in you.
@@tomast9034 Gøttem
@@coolpop19 yeah, F-the zip ties n duct tape. Way better to use band-aids n bubble gum. (Sarcasm for anybody that can’t detect it).
@Gilbert Ike I hacked her account too. She sure gets freaky on Friday nights when you are out with your buddies.
I'm at the stage in a refresh for the heads to go back on the motor. This video was really informative and from the research I did, this seems like the better way to go. Good stuff!
Ordered those scrapers and it's good to see someone else break out the out the autobody tools in a heavy duty shop I'm a heavy duty tech that grew up in a family bodyshop I will offer the advice that sanding blocks are most effective when use the 45 degree rule if your holding your sanding block parallel to the length of the head or block surface you sand in a 45 degree cross hatch or you have the sanding block on a 45 degree angle to the deck and sand parallel with the deck and change your paper often about 30 swipes by hand or 30 seconds with a sander. Thanks for the videos
the tech-bro almost made me piss myself. I'm fortunate enough to have an excellent tech, like yourself. I see him use straight edge almost every day.
That's scumbag steve, not tech bro
knowyourmeme.com/memes/scumbag-steve
We have a million dollar machine to make the block straight , I do have a straight edge but has not been out of the box for years.
It takes a lot less time to do it right the first time than doing it over. Whomever said that was right -- and I tended to learn the hard way.
I will never forget the plaque on the wall above and behind my shop teachers desk that read "If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?" That was 61 years ago when they still taught life skills in school.
I used to work in aviation and doing everything per the manual and standard industry knowledge was the thing. As a tech having a return from service was a black eye, or foot to the nuts if you messed something up that was preventable from the start.
I had a plane back at the shop the next morning after an annual. The gear wouldn’t retract. My bosses were on it for half the day trying to figure it out. It wasn’t until I had a sudden memory of showing a dummy coworker the “emergency gear drop” cable under the pilots seat. The idiot pulled it. That almost had me canned, him walking out immediately with his tools, and me feeling like a fresh turd on a wet lawn. Safety and integrity in your work is key for the better of everyone. Your shop won’t have to lose money for repeat work it should have had done right the first time and the customer is safe with work well done. I should’ve checked the CO2 cartridge myself after, but that’s what trust in others gets you.
Love how you use the PEPCON explosion for the destruction of the week. Great vids. Thanks.
There is actually a reason I chose that, but that is a story for another video.
Yep I had just unloaded there about 25minutes earlier and asked the guy why do I smell somethin..30miles out I felt the wave hit me in the back of my seat I dodged that bullet.
I was born and raised in Vegas(still live here) and my oldest brother was in high school at VoTech HS when person blew up. He was walking around the east side of the building when it blew and he said it literally knocked the wind out of him as well as all the windows in The school. Vote him out was probably 4 miles from pepcon
I've had the exact same experience as you. Went to school learned that scrapers, elbow grease etc the correct way. Got out in the field, even asked others, "what's the best gasket prep?" to which I usually would hear, "the fastest. scotch brite discs". Anyway, perpendicular razor has the lowest damage potential, angled on aluminum will cut chunks. Wet sanding with fine grit and WD seems to get things clean fairly quickly. Also, with the straightedge, put it on the surface and shine a flashlight behind it, look at the straightedge from opposite side and... light can't pass if there isn't a gap.
Yup same here 20yr red seal. Use razor scraper and scotch paper not rolocs. Use a lath fine file and if you need it to be perfect try using Prussian blue where ever it remains is a low spot. Draw file to verify.
Been a while since I've done some engine work, got 2 454's in our boat. Pulled one head off. I came here to see what people are doing to prep. I've used rolocs back in the day. But have had an uneasy feeling about creating uneven surfaces. I believe you are spot on buddy, thanks for posting!
As an engineer, I approve your video. Flat, straight and clean just like a fresh machined surface is the way to go.
Well an engineers opinion is that valuable to a mechanic fixing the junk yall overengineer.....
@@85jmccoy Oh don't be so naive. Everything is designed and built to a price point set by someone wayyyy above an engineer's paygrade. It's not the engineers you should be frustrated at...
@@awashbowler I know...but still....f yall lol
Always done it using various scrapers and sanding. Everyone did back when I started and it’s served me well. My engines don’t come back.
Yep, diesel fuel works as a cleaner as well. Toilet brush and a bucket of diesel for first cleaning then finish off with some brake cleen. Good tip for anyone that's not getting a free supply of brake cleaner lol
@@johndowe7003 Diesel was all we had when I started, the firm was too tight to buy brake cleaner! Though it was trichloroethane at the time which apparently causes cancer, so maybe just as well.
@@andygilbert1877 yup we still use diesel to clean parrafin and oil off our rigs. The new style of diesel has a lot of surfactants so it's pretty much the same as soap. It's a game changer for small businesses and independent guys since it's a lost more cost effective.
@@johndowe7003 Yep, plus you’ve generally got loads of it! (I worked on heavy equipment & fork trucks) We’d use it as a freeing agent too...leaving seized stuff in it over a weekend rarely fails.
@@andygilbert1877 yep, dont forget to include shoving grease into holes with threads in them to protect the threads from the elements. i would always do that to equipment that i would put away for later . plus diesel is the best soap for hand washin, just dont forget to rinse off with dawn hah
Great video. The funny hat guy was totally hilarious, you gotta put him in more videos. Off the chart on that.
Finally the honest and informed details I was looking for
Been doing this over 40 years and agree. It's easier to keep it flat than to make it flat.
I like that expression, I might have to use that.
@@AdeptApe Also: "It's better to be looking _at_ something, than looking _for_ something."
I'd rather be looking at old material and taking my time, than looking for the metal I've just gouged out of the block with a disc. :-P
Ok quick question, this all sounds good and is good. But you are sanding down the block, is there a tolerance? I was told you aren't allowed to sand so that the tech height remains the same, lets say your just changing a head gasket
Just curious. Do these same principles apply to a car head gasket?
@@stocks4bt absolutely
Best gasket video I‘ve seen. Especially the 220/400 grit part. The last word on cylinder head prep. Thanks 🙏
I’m a marine diesel tech, work on mtu man and cat. We clean decks the same way but if you use some wd 40 with some scotch bright pads after the sand paper it will shine the deck up good and pull a lot debri you can’t see by eye out
This reminds me of scraping ways on a lathe bed, mill bed ect. Scraping ways
On the ways you should of been using a longer carbide scraper and making 0.002” deep pockets either cross hatch pattern or J-hooks. Do that on a block and you will have hundred of failure points for the gasket. A static seal of a gasket and creating oil pockets to sustain a film of oil for sliding surfaces are very different applications.
Fantastic video- super informative, no bs. Thanks man. Doing my first head gasket and head replacement on my 06 Mercedes Sprinter Van.
Finally some one that knows how to use what he has great video helped me explain how to a buddy 👌
The guy at the machine shop I use (car engines) has told me he likes my prep (plastic scrapers, razor blades and aluminum free scrapers). He told me he has seen several blocks that need resurfaced because of people using roloc and causing low spots.
I have yet to have a block that needs decked (SHOCKINGLY, I'm waiting for that run to be over).
Didn't know the carbide scrapers existed. That's awesome.
For what's it's worth, my last personal build I ended at 500 grit. Gaskets sealed perfectly fine.
Yeah, that carbide scraper does look good.
Along with flatness, Ra finish is what is important. This value determined by the gasket used.
I use a wheel on heavy gasket residue and then wd40 and a machinist stone to finish the block. I will definitely look into getting that carbide scraper, looks awesome. And coming from a military mechanic background I check everything with a straight edge because privates will find a way to ruin the engines so badly....
Also we have a saying "you always have time to do it right the second time!"
Lisle now makes a more affordable version of that scraper concept.
I started doing it the same way couple years ago after I watched a video on RUclips of a man flat decking an aluminum cylinder head with a straight edge and sandpaper . It got me to thinking about it .
Good video! - as an aircraft engineer we were trained to lap any flat surface- on a head or block the area between cylinder can be low causing a leak if not spotted
Thanks for saying it for me!
Pro tip. Cover rod bearing journals. Before any scraping, or sanding. Don't want debris in oil ports.
If you do get debris in there or in the cylinder, can you just get an oil change to get that out of the system?
@@gersonruiz1714 on first start up. The debris would hit the new bearings, because that's after oil filter.
@@claterpillar1 how would I get the debris out from on top of the piston head? Mine kinda looks like there’s debris on the edges
You can try using a vacuum to get it out
I am no mechanic myself but have taken some heads over the years to a machine shop to get skimmed to true it or valves/seats ground etc and I asked the owner of the shop what should I be using to clean the block deck with and he was adamant that I only scrape and do not use abrasive roloc's for the uneven mess they can create plus the abrasive dust, no sand paper, nor any form of hand type scotch brite pad because it has abrasive on it as well and claimed many an engine has been ruined just from those hand scotch brite pads. The problem he pointed out is that any abrasive that falls down into the engine which would be into the valley of a pushrod cam in block engine for instance or any oil passages within the block deck will end up pumping through the bearings and imbed themselves into the bearing and sooner or later bite you in the rear. Oh I imagine if the block was totally torn down and all oil gallery end plugs removed and dipped and so forth is one thing but its this top end work with the block in the piece of equipment that doesn't allow for complete cleaning. I feel the pain as well, picking away with a scraper and it never ends with taking minute quantities of gasket material off and wish there was a better way also. Adept Ape, I really enjoy your channel as do other farmers I know as you have a vast knowledge of Cat engines. With this frustrating gasket removal issue, how about you make it one of your missions to talk to various engine machine shops and if you know anyone higher up in the racing engine rebuild world, perhaps there are some secret methods most of us have never heard of.
You make a very good observation there and the balance of trying to properly prepare a gasket surface vs not getting any contaminates into the engine is an interesting topic. I would say at a machine shop it is an easier decision since everything is going to get hot tanked and properly decked. On an inframe rebuild or a field repair you are trying to do the best with what you can do. Now perhaps a better way is to just scrape the surfaces and the wipe them down, that would disturb the original machining marks the least, but perhaps miss some high spots or embedded gasket material?
The topic of contaminates destroying engines is interesting as well, as every time a valve cover is removed dirt is getting into the engine. The particle size has a lot to do with how much damage it can cause as well. If the size is smaller than the bearing gap it has a tendency to not do damage as it can be flushed through the system without being wedged into the bearings, if the size is close to the gap size though it can cause the most damage. The larger the particle, the least likely it is to get past the screen and filter. Very interesting topic and I try not to take a dogmatic view on it as there are many good points to be discussed.
@@AdeptApe Thank you for the reply and also for not thinking I was trying to belittle anyone as topics like this can get people rather wound up because they have done a certain thing for years and can get their back against the wall to to speak to hear someone tisk tisk a practice. You are so right, the machine shop can very easily say do this or that because he has all the equipment to work with a complete tear down and isn't the one working on a head removal only or an inframe. Now unless I am wrong I believe that machine shop was pointing in part to the fact that some of the grit particles that find their way into the oil passages are "after" the filter and so the filter can't remove what doesn't come to it until it has flowed through the engine upon start up to then come back around to the sump and filter. And I am sure that different engines due to their design are going to be more or less susceptible to getting the abrasive into the wrong side of the oil system when cleaning off a deck.
I had never seen a carbide scraper before, looks like an easier tool to work with then the razor blade that sure wants to catch on any edges or holes that don't have a chamfer. I have holders just like you showed and recently bought a long handled type handle but have yet to try it out. But believe me, I have been so tempted at times to pull out the roloc on the angle die grinder out of frustration and go to town on the project but have to hold myself back.
I have been taught to use a knife sharpenig stone with brake clean after a razer blade than block sand and check and i have never had a problem
I started stoning my blocks during rebuilds. I got into using them after I started millwrighting. I was told by a old engine builder that those scotch bright wheels on a die grinder would take some metal away. I know for a fact you can stone for a hour straight and it wont take .001" off lol. we use them on turbine shells all the time. They will instantly show up any high spots you may have on a block.
Anyhow, great video!
stoning your blocks? did they say jehovah?
@@edbo10 no, what he meant was using a flat stone to deburr an engine blocks head gasket surface.
If you have a known flat piece of clean polished metal, and a pair of precision ground abrasive stones, if you try to grind down that metal with your stone, it will never scratch /touch the metal at all.
But, let's say you take a center punch and lightly tap the metal, and then rub the stone onto the metal where the center punch mark was made, the stone will instantly find the high spots and grind them away, leaving all the surrounding metal un touched.
@@jakefriesenjake lmao i know...it was a joke
@@edbo10 ok
This carries over for all engines 👍
With some engines such as the 3.6L Pentastar, the timing cover is notorious for leaking anywhere at 12k miles to 60k miles, eventually it'll leak. Guys I work with tend to use die grinders with sanding disks because it saves time...even though it calls for plastic and/or wood scrapers to get the three bond RTV off the surfaces of the engine and timing cover. With the sanding disks you run the risk of making low spots, not great for any type of gasket (RTV or not) and causing further problems. Takes way longer, but better to be done right the first time and not having comeback because you took mating surface material off.
Especially aluminum and thin castings, generally they are super expensive and easy to ruin. At least straight edge the part of you are going to use the die grinder, but that takes longer.
Congratulations young man. You recognize what is really important when so many others do not...
I have 3 widths of super scraper for different applications. I love them.
Diamond knife sharpening block works really good too for block prep.
I USE A SURFACE STONE WHICH I HAVE HAD FOR 30 YRS FROM BUILDING STEAM TURBINES. IT WORKS GREAT ALONG WITH STRAIGHT EDGE ,FEELERS,WD-40 AND BRAKE CLEANER.THEY MAKE THESE STONES IN DIFFERENT SHAPES AND SIZES,SUCH AS TRIANGLES FOR REDUCTION GEARS AND GIANT QUILL SHAFTS. YOU HAVE GOOD VIDS,KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK OUR COUNTRY NEEDS THAT.
THATS COOL BRO BUT MAYBE YOU HAVE WORKED AROUND LOUD NOISES A BIT TOO MUCH
@@kiyosenl.3889 I AM OLD AND SCARED LIKE JERUSALEM'S HILLS... THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENT...
Great information, and spot on when flatness is the critical item. I hope we get to see more of Goofy Cat Guy in the future.
I started doing this a couple years ago. I too used the roloc but I ran into problems on a 3400 block and that was the turning point for me. It blows my mind how many technicians don't check the block and heads with a straight edge.
Yeah, I don't think I've ever caught one doing it in the couple shops I've worked on. Even when something leaks and comes back it was usually silicone that they used to fix it 🤯
@@AdeptApe If you are just installing a new head (not liners or anything else)do you still have to straight edge with the liners being in the way?
I'm rebuilding my ford 3000 rn, I was wondering if I should you razer blade or die grinder, I've always used razer blade
8:00 The wooden handle " super scraper " . Carbide edge, awesome scraper.
I keep in mind, any crud that goes down the cylinder, could end up in a rod journal oil passage. Cover the journal, or brake clean it out too.
It's a bare block, no bearings or anything
24" long 3" aluminum 3/8" wall square tube with on side machined perfectly flat. Attach sandpaper to flat side and go to work. I use that tube for everything from gasket surfaces to butcher blocks.
Well done bro. Appreciate your humility and ability to adept (adapt) to less evasive cleaning methods. As I tell my guys “abrasives are the devil” when using them “on engine”. I’ve seen DYI guys as well as professionals ruin engines due to not being careful with their use. Keep up the good content
Great video! I used it to clean and check the block on my Triumph TR6. Was able to scrape off all the residue using about 15 single-edge razor blades, so didn't require the carbide scraper even though I ordered one. I bought a 100-pack of blades. They were sharper on one side than the other and the first few strokes with a new blade were really effective. Also used paint remover to soften up the gasket residue. Don't recommend that unless the block is out of the car as it's messy. Plain old paint scraper didn't do anything. Razor blades, sanding block & medium emery paper and accurate straightedge all that was necessary for me.
Glad you got a good result out of it and you got it going. Thanks for the comment.
Just saw this method from an older mechanic on a Toyota rebuild channel. Straight edge with the feeler gauges is definitely the way to go
Flat straight an clean keep up the good work been using straight edge for years past on from my Dad retired services Diesel instructor
There is always time to do it properly the second time. Let’s get it right the first time! Great video.
Straight edge with the feeler gages was the way I was thought and it takes time but you want to do it right the first then pay for it later
Great video it's about time someone put out a video addressing this having been a caterpillar mechanic for 20+ years started at the dealership and for the last 12 independent to many people think if has to be shinny metal before it's clean
They aren't shiny from the factory, they are just flat and clean.
@@AdeptApe roll off disc's have given Cat e-models and c15 a bad name for head gasket problems for years in my opinion
They certainly don't help that metal shim seal any better, although the idea that it seals at all is amazing to me. Giving the block little low and high spots only makes it worse. Just use more aviation gasket sealant!
This is like the best video I’ve found. !!!!!!
A handy trick is to take carbide inserts for machining and braze them to old screwdrivers. Makes for excellent scrapers.
That's how the Super Scraper with the wood handle that he shows works. Much cheaper to do it your way, though, if you a source of carbide inserts.
Once scraped clean i use a 5 inch wide half inch thick piece of glass with wet paper going down in grit as I go.👍
Bought the carbide scraper to clean the deck on my 6oh. Worked incredibly well.
awesome tutorial. I just did the same on a iron block and was having doubts about it. good knowing I'm not the only one. Only thing i did diferently was using an orbital air sander with a 120g disc, and then used a block and by hand using medium low pressure and 150g paper. then I switched to 240g and that's it. it doesnt look too good but feels very smooth. Also I'm a bit experienced on bodywork and used to hand sanding and feeling how smooth a surface when passing the sanding block
Doing this after 40 years come to see if things have changed, they haven't this is old school and ill be doing it this way again, nice presentation thanks for the refresher. But I will be packing those holes to keep the debris out...
I agree with you. I used to clean same way as you and as I've gotten older changed to cleaning similar to this. I wouldn't suggest using air file. Leave the body work tools for the body men. Enjoy your videos as always
You would also expect the smooth polished surface the roloc wheel leave to be less effective in other words it would be expected to hold less side pressure prior to failing given a sanded surface leaves very small sharp ridges that would bite into the softer gasket material better preventing any slipping where there’s a narrow strip of bearing such as between cylinders
Agreed. I'm glad I read down far enough before I basically repeated your comment. Examine the surface of a separator plate as shipped, or a cylinder head in a yellow box. Pretty sure there is some bite designed into the surfaces there.
Live and learn.
I had an apprentice use air powered die grinder with a abrasive pad on the mating surface on a ballscrew bearing housing on a rebuild job. I had a little talk with him about this. I gave him a lesson on how to use a stone.
Great methodology and reasoning behind why you prep it the way you do. Will definitely adopt this process
Im a paccar and cummins tech, what i like to do on cylinder head/block deck is to spray some wd-40 or pb blaster( to each their own) leave it socking over night, and when i finally start working on it, use a scotch brite burgundy pad(150 grain) the ones i use at work are excellent, they are great for cleaning metal surfaces,use that pad to clean as much as i can from the block deck and once ive covered the whole area, then spray it down with the brake cleaner, after that use some soapy water( dawn is my preferred soap, i like doing this because it gets any dirt or debri of of the surface, then brake cleaner again, and use the scotch pad to clean any uneven surfaces, once everything is good, spray it down with some crc contact cleaner, this will remove any small material from the surface,thats my method, it has never failed, i mostly do this for cylinder head/block deck surfaces
Amen to flat sanding, you could look up scraping for machines, thanks for teaching
I've started using a large granite footstone I picked up from a local monument company with various grits of sandpaper glued to it. It not only provides the needed weight for the paper to cut but also helps flatten raised areas for a more uniform surface. Me and William Martin (name of the stone) have done several blocks and heads and not a single one has ever leaked. I paid $40 for the foot stone and the guy threw in a smaller 1 foot square that the customer never picked up. If you're still using surface disc better be careful not to create a gouge between the liners.
I use the rol-lock for small flanges but nothing more. I replaced the head gaskets on my ford 4.6l and put clean oil soaked paper towels down in the piston bores and used a razor scraper and scotch brite by hand to clean the head gasket surface
It doesn't matter how light you are on the pressure, without a lapping block or a rigid sanding block, you are still going to have a slight "bowling" affect if you are sanding across the liner openings in the deck with the foam sanding block you are using. You may as well be using the scotchbrite pad. If you have a very large machine file, you could wrap your sandpaper around it. There will be less "bowling" affect with it.
I knew a guy who would "machine" has own aluminium cylinder heads. He got a huge thick block of glass and glued sand paper to it. Then he rubbed the cylinder head on it until it was flat. It worked.
A poor man's machinist.
Use the sticky back sandpaper and work the head in a figure 8 motion. This is needed on most small engine jobs.
I never used the rollock wheels for critical gaskets. Scrapers, quarter sheet sanding block and finish up with a 14 inch mill file without a handle laid flat.
thank you sir for flat cleaning your work surfaces .
REALLY well done. Quality work, a job well done is so much more satisfying that just quick and easy and … not right! :-)
Those zip wheels spray abrasive all over. I think that is a bad idea.
I've been using roloc disks for years. Yes they spray stuff everywhere. But, clean up after yourself.
Half assed way to do it though. If time is a concern use the 12” pneumatic sanding board, done in minutes and it’s done perfect.
gotta clean up with a vacuum, always
Those are my preferred methods of cleaning and checking gasket surfaces also not because I was taught but through experience and a bit of common sense.
I have a precision a aluminum sanding block that I milled perfectly flat and true and I cover it with sand paper and I sand all my gasket surfaces using numerous grits of sandpaper. I also have a very nice set of precision parallels that I setup using a dial indicator to verify the surface.
After warm up I always let the engine cool to manufacturers specs and drain the water and break the bolts off and torque them again to yeild and always use a copper spray sealant on first instal and the gasket will never leak and will last for year's all my rebuilt engines are still going strong it's been 6 year's now on one rebuild I done I use plate glass and 80 grit 120 and 100 to level block and cylinder head using a strait edge and feeler gauges works a treat plus regrind the valve seats and valve stem seals and new springs and locker's.
Definite clean & flat surfaces is all i wanted bro,thxs for the tips.No more brushes need now ":)
This was wonderful explanation.
You can also check the Ra and Rz numbers with a profilometer and compare with the gascket surface finish requirements.
I always carry one with me in my back pocket
Great topic, so often I’ve seen top deck destroyed by the users of these discs, in Australia these discs started to appear from the local Snap On man 20 years or so ago selling them out of their truck to all the local mechanics shops and dealerships, in the hands of an apprentice it would almost lead to failure every time, the worst one iv repaired required.017” stock removal to get back to a clean up, but hey it was shining, when they were used on the smaller petrol engines it wasn’t uncommon for them spinning con rod bearings after head work was recently done, the cause was the aluminium oxide from the disc getting into the oil after cleaning the top deck, it can’t be filtered and it’s abrasive, once again great topic, bottom line do not use these discs, wast of time and money.
your video make me avoid shine like mirror hard work, but flat, thank you
Plus on newer engine the bearings are so much harder due to higher cylinder pressures. The aluminum and other debris from the whiz wheel will not embedd in the to bearings it will just spin a bearing.
I work on mostly light duty stuff. I start with brake clean and a carbide scraper. Then I use a knife sharpening stone that I keep soaked in transmission fluid. After it is thoroughly cleaned, I wipe it with lacquer thinner. Never had one come back.
Why do you choose lacquer thinner instead of a brake cleaner, cheaper or doesn't evaporate as quickly?
@@AdeptApe It does. I did a stint at a dedicated engine shop for a couple of years. Long story.
Mostly Cummins 5.9. Boss sucked, worked outside regardless, even took care of his pain in the ass dog when he was out of town.
Dude can build an engine though. That laquer thinner takes it away man. Get a quart and try it.
I start out with a scraper then move to flat sanding. I have a 20lb square piece of granite that had been ground flat and smooth. The weight of the granite is enough to do the job, so I just have to go back and fourth in different directions with different grits of wet-dry paper.
When doing DIY paint and body work I was taught to run your hands over EVERY surface you sand as you go. To me at me least flat sanding and some touch/feel seems legit for a decent head/block mating surfaces making good sealing contact with a gasket. Shite and briney looks nice, but a proper seal and job brings longevity to the motor.
An old body guy taught me to use a thin cotton cloth like a t shirt between your hand and the surface. It somehow makes it easier to feel imperfections my bare hand missed.
Have worked for construction company's over the years and found that I usually own more wood chisel's then the finish carpenters do. Probably the best scraper short of the carbide that I have come up with. Run it over the oil stone and come up with a razor edge that is sharp enough to remove most of the contaminants on the surface, but soft enough to deform prior to damaging the block surface. Used very gingerly on aluminum. Have them from 1/2" wide thru 2 1/2 and find them better then any putty knife but longer lasting then razor blades.
You know I have heard of them being used for scrapers, but haven't tried them yet. Think I'm going to pick one up this weekend though now. What size do you use, wider the better?
@@AdeptApe Depends on surface. Smaller ones get in for tight area's where you don't want to disturb alot of crud around it where you're doing a field repair, larger ones work well in the shop. The stanley one's seem to be a bit harder then the buck brand from home cheapo but that may have changed in the last 10 years since I last bought one. Either brand you do want to have a good stone to hone it sharp, grinder wheel does not work worth shit for that. Keep up the good work, I do enjoy learning something new every day. Altho it's usualy how not to do it next tims!
Leo
I went to Ace and got one the day after this comment, guess l gotta say it works pretty well.
A new sharpening stone dedicated to flat surface prep works great as well. It shows any high points after a couple of passes especially around pulled bolt holes
Is a generic one flat enough, or do you recommend a brand name?
Great advice. I got the whizzy wheel / cookies in the engine *bad* lesson a long time ago from a seasoned veteran tech. He said exactly the same things you said "think that gasket gives a shit if the deck is shiny"? Flat and clean is what matters most.
I picture him with a coffee cup in his hand and nicotine stained teeth for some reason. Perhaps that is because one of my seasoned tech trainers had that.
@@AdeptApe Spot on. Not freindly with everyone, but not mean either. Him and I got along well though because he said he saw alot of himself in me. I was working at a powered industrial equipment repair company, he taught me alot about hydraulics and electrical repairs, as well as base engine repair. Taught me to run a bead of weld on a stuck bearing race to shrink it for easier removal, as well as welding nuts to broken studs and bolts. Gave me a Jacobsen two stroke mower engine, still have it my garage, on the engine shelf. Hard to believe that was 20+ years ago.
I work in a power plant. We do a lot of work where thats close doesnt work. Everything has a given clearance. Make it right the first time.
I used a brand new knife sharpening block on my 5.9 Cummins worked good. Amazing how many high spots on the block I found and worked down flat with just the stone.
I've received a few comments on using those, as well a few saying to not use anything other than scrapers. I have a couple in my box for sharpened stuff and from my old straight razor days, but I think I'm going to try using them and see how they turn out. Thank you for the comment.
@@AdeptApe yes before I used it lightly scraped the sharp edges off the block with an old knife and cleaned it good after and had to keep cleaning it as I used it. Plugged my oil galleys with earplugs and razored the excess off before I started. They are tricky to remove sometimes so be careful
i watched a guy making his cam shaft shiny with a grinder. Im pretty sure theres some serious tolerances being destroyed there.
Hahaha😁
Don’t buy that car. That’s probably the same guy that put a gallon of methyl hydrate in every tank of gas to make his windshield wipers last longer. Lesson of the day: don’t do drugs while installing a cam shaft.
Carbide scraper and wipedown with cleaner. Chase threads, clean holes. Remove liners, clean out liner bores and crank. Wipe down again with brake cleaner, check flatness and measure bores. Install everything.
I was taught to just buzz it off with the die grinder, and then clean up all the swirls with a scotch brite. but I hate the idea knowing there's metal powder that is gonna make its way in small crevasses I can't see. Last head gasket I did I only used brake clean and a scotch brite and it was actually very effective when I used the scotch brite pad around a block of wood, and kept dowsing the deck surface with brake clean. I wanna try using plastic razor blades next time and see how it goes
Deboss Garage had guys from down under (The skid factory) over to the DB shop. The one Aussie finish planed a 6BT block with a whet stone, by hand, like you use to sharpen knives.
That would work as well. I have one, but don't use it as often. Had an older guy used to use a hard flat file as well.
I ran a cylinder head resurfacing machine for three years the roloc wheel will knock cast iron out about two and a half thousands of an inch I'm in aluminum head it can be up to 10,000 roloc is the worst razor blades Scotch-Brite and brake cleaner you got it right
I remember taking a factory Cummins ISX class and at that time Cummins made it very clear that rolocs and scotch brite were unacceptable for cleaning any mating surface. Especially heads and blocks. They were finding that the abrasive material and debris was ending up in the engine and in some cases plugging oil passages. Local dealer trainer said their techs would get written up if caught doing this.
I would use a pneumatic long sander. A body and fender supply house would carry a nice model. That will help with the heavy crap. End up with the hand flat sander.
Third time watching this all the way through. Some real gold here for a new tech.
Amen. If you can feel it clean it. Doesn’t matter what it looks like
I always use a razor blade scrapper then use the wheel. I spend about 15 mins with the razor then 25 mins with the wheel and straight edge them to .002 as well and have never had any issues. I also do that with aluminum heads and blocks (I use the blue pads for aluminum) also use magnaflux to check for cracks when I'm working with aluminum.
I think a simple straight edge is the tool missing the most out of most mechanic's toolboxes.
Magnaflux doesn’t work on non ferrous materials...
I like sanding blocks and stones. Im picking up one of those super scrapers. Tbe roloc bristle discs are more of a time saver in a shop turning out quantities but they are expensive and never true.
Thanks, now please show us how you clean the inside of the block for preparation of installation of new liners , rings etc.
Really like your videos I learn a lot from you thanks
Thanks for watching, you guys are the reason I make the them.
I always use the grey rolocs and then finish with the carbide scraper. Love that thing
I'll be keeping the flat sanding method in mind though, that could come in handy.
What about aluminum blocks ?
I worked 2 years in an engine machine shop. We used wire cup wheels, but always careful not to eat into the metal. And most blocks or heads were getting resurfaced anyway, though quite a few weren't and it wasn't an issue. I do like your method though, using a wire wheel makes a big mess and I wouldn't do it to an engine that isn't fully disassembled and getting jet washed. Lots of places I wouldn't want pieces of wire going on an in frame rebuild.
Great process. !
I spy a super scraper. Easily my favorite scraper.
Also, they are designed to pull, not to push. They are actually made here locally in iowa.
you can see where the sander is hitting the high points. Thats where the gasket will be compressed the most. The lower areas will allow liquids to seep in
Josh, no need to go past the 100 grit for a head gasket. The surface needs a certain roughness. The gasket needs that roughness to keep from slipping. Most all machined surfaces have a recommended rma. Simply put rma is a measurement of the surface roughness. You may well know this, but others may not.
I appreciate you making this, and all your videos. Really helps everyone trying to learn about their engines.
I’ve seen 200-220 grit even for composite… im surprised 100 would be OK
10 thumbs up for "Flat, straight and clean."