Ever Heard of a 6 Stroke Engine Cycle? You Will Want To.
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- Опубликовано: 2 дек 2024
- In this video we are discussing the "new" 6 stroke engine cycle that Porsche has recently patented, but perhaps there were others before it.
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Porsche Patent Link: patentcenter.u...
6 Stroke engine link: patents.google...
Two stroke diesels still around. They are very common in marine engines. Most super large ships engines such as for container ships are two stroke. They burn a really heavy dirty oil normally but can also run on diesel to minimize emissions when not in the open ocean. No spark plugs only compression ignition.
You're so smart when it comes to this crap 7 minutes and 20 seconds in when you Fade Into crazy looking math and algebra crap and then the Sheep screamed laughing my ass off thank you for everything that you've taught me over the years of watching your videos I've gained so much knowledge
Yup, most of us that are subscribed to your channel are the folks that are either walking around with the invisible question marks above our heads OR jare damn good mechanics! You fit the former and are the latter. Keep up the great work.
Crower patented a 6 stroke 10 or 15 years ago for diesels, the 5th and 6th stroke was a steam pressure stroke, and its said the running engine was a lot more efficient and ran cooler. Its worth looking into as it seemed to be a real extra power stroke without combustion and added a lot more power
The only 6 stroke I could see is bolting an 8v92 on the front of a 3406B, now you'd have 6 strokes, haha
Nothing beats Suck, Squeeze, Bang, and Blow.
There is an extra squeeze and bang though!
we want opposing cylinders. Car industry: what about 6 stroke?
Achates has those. Think the Bradley Infantry vehicle has that now.
As your average idot mechanic, if i were to give my guess, it probably has something to do with unburnt gases in the combustion chamber. The holes on the extra stroke allow iust enough fresh air to finish burning it. My first thought with the "planetary" was a nightmare, but like you said, it's not often I find a gear failure in engines or transmissions, and planetary gears are used in the most high torque applications, so maybe? Seems like a lot of crap to pack into a small area, though.
Another RUclipsr explained that Porsche's design is purely for performance. 2 stroke engines produces more power pulses than 4 strokes, but burning crankcase oil is a huge no-no for emissions. The only road legal 2 stroke option is something like a Detroit Diesel 2 stroke, but those engines absolutely requires a supercharger to run, which has parasitic losses.
So Porsche's 6 stroke engine keeps the 4 stroke cycle so that the engine can at least start and idle without boost pressure, but the 2 stroke cycle uses the combustion and exhaust from the 4 stroke cycle to help pull in fresh air from the lower intake ports. Emissions and efficiency is still good because it uses gasoline direct injection, and it doesn't burn oil.
6 strokes is about all it takes for me
HA. 4 more than me.
Man I'm good after just one some days
My hero. 😂
Wonder if they could implement this without the planetary crankshaft, by just sticking with a fixed stroke. But, adding an additional set of valves to feed the ports in the cylinder? I mean, intake air and exhaust are still going the same end route anyway.
I saw another video or two about the porche engine a little while ago, the idea behind the ports in the bottom of the cylinder is just to let in a small amount more air (requires high pressure forced induction), before giving a lean squirt of fuel for the second power stroke, to make for complete combustion, making for cleaner emissions, and the added power per number of revolutions. Due to efficiency losses from the crankshaft geartrain, as well as the second combustion event having less total yield, the folks who are way smarter than I were guessing anywhere from 15-25% power increases, with may be a 10% efficiency increase if memory serves. I dont think there's a prototype out there yet, but it seems like a very porche thing do do. I bet they will make one, will it work? I dunno, I really appreciate clever concepts like this, but am painfully aware that " ze german engineering " isnt always all its cracked up to be.
Very interesting. More possibilities for internal combustion for the future.
I still think the 6 stroke design that used water injection on the 5th stroke, and another exhaust stroke on the 6th was a decent idea. Basically makes it a steam engine on those strokes. Helps capture some of the energy that is wasted going out the cooling system.
,,, yes , and Bruce Crower did not take any advantage of common rail , and computer activated valves . Just proof of concept , that was brilliant in its simplicity and frugality ,,, .
Yes the air cooled Double Wasp 18 cylinder aircraft engine build by Pratt and Whitney. They did this to cool the head by injecting a water sultion
during two extra strokes, horse power was increased from 1800 to over 2200. Nice right.
PLR
Well that's super interesting, someone else knows everything if you have enough people.
i wasn't expecting to read about a water-injected engine today, but now I guess i don't have a choice
Egr is to keep combustion temps below 2500 deg F. This should do that, but can't see the bottom end being that great. Regular crank, boost airflow with a turbo, inject some water to make steam, should give you a thermodynamic advantage. Without egr and possibly def on a diesel. I think they could just go dual fuel on a modern diesel (propane) and use water injection and get the clean burn low Nox with a 4 stroke. No egr and no def. Probably could platinum coat the piston tops and get rid of the scr as well.
The additional BDC stroke length captures more of the force created by combustion 1 and the additional compression/power stroke burns non-scavenged exhaust gases from the first power stroke for better emissions. The combinations create about 25% more power (theoretically) over 7200° of rotation. Big problem I see is vibration from several different out of phase rotational components and what the rpm’s will be like (how high). There’s also a worm and ring gear to change the compression ratio, I got no idea how that will work. Wild stuff; cool design though and all the components and how they go together are well understood.
The second 6 stroke reminds me of the old hit and miss engines a bit. I don’t emission’s were on there mind just fuel consumption. Also they were kinda of a constant speed engine.not really clear to me but something along the lines of a governor would hold the valves open when spinning to fast. Not really sure it would work in a
car or truck.
Great video thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I would guess it is for emissions.
As far as patents, many times, a patent application is submitted during development but can be submitted prior. My patents were during development, after design was complete since our pilot was public facing.
With common rail electronic injectors this could easily increase fuel economy like a displacement on demand system when you don't need all the power. The non fueled stroke would allow the air to cool the combustion chamber. There would be a drop in boost.
Whenever we see something crazy like that for whatever, and its designed by the Germans, we say it operates off of Kraut Space magic. Long history with that old joke.
Number of years ago there was a companh that patented a 5 stroke engine, but that used an extra cylinder that had a specific job. Very odd design that one. Nothing will top the 2/4 stroke Rotary engines though.
look up the mery explosive engine built in chico california. it was a 6 cycle double action gas engine built in 1895
GEM did that one maybe 20 years ago . Good stuff too , back when they were relevant .
This engine design was made because of emissions. Porsche have an e fuel plant that produces methanol that was made using carbon capture tech( carbon mixed with hydrogen) efficiency is essential as the fuel will probably cost a bit more , carbon nuetral era
Can't imagine Porsche not releasing a BSFC number , or a projected BSFC ,,, .
Being Porsche I'd imagine some kind of race/performance application is what they had in mind with this, I could see this is some kind of race car where emissions and fuel consumption aren't as big of a concern, it would be cool to see a working model though.
It is not about longevity. That thing only has to survive the five year warranty. It is about numbers, to meet the emission standards.
Well, Im not sayin its perfect, but youd essentially get 1 cyl having a full power stroke and another cyl having a scavenger power stroke, which would give you, lets say 40% more power. The 2nd power stroke is like a booster for the 1st. Its silly as a single piston but as a 6 cyl, every main power stroke would have another piston give 30-50% power too.
It's definitely an idea, not sure the logistics on that Crankshaft operation though.
It would be pretty big and heavy.
@AdeptApe no its complex af. But with adjustable displacement and all the new crazy stuff, like hydraulic valves, it might all work out. Essentially each powerstroke would be boosted by another by 30%, lets say, so thats a 30% boost in hsp. On the same fuel consumption. Theoretically. Id love to see it working.
I wonder if they are also working with different gear sets on the bottom end. You could almost have a high torque gear reduction or visaversa
@jordanwedel7738 exactly. Combine all of the things and make it so complex its cheaper to buy a new porsche than to fix lol I can see what theyre goin for, 1 main and 1 scavenged firing at every revolution. But its complex. And comllex doesnt always breed reliability
nooo. two strokes are not extinct, many , many Detroit's are still alive and well including. the two in my boat , watch bus grease monkey that is mostly what he works on , great engines that are still running after 40 + years
He’s referring to being still in production, and probably referring to only trucks, because that’s his area of knowledge
Think you went waaaaaaay outta context here. Besides that, even the boat industry gave up 2 strokes years ago, so I’m uncertain as to your point. He’s saying that there are virtually no modern 2 strokes, especially in the diesel segment (at least in typical use cases. Obviously, big marine engines are still 2 stroke.).
Imagine the rattle in the crankcase as this engine ages.
Perhaps in a 6 Cyl engine you would get a lower strength stroke at the same time one of the other 5 cylinders is hitting it's full power stroke. So for minimal effort, you get 1.xx return instead of just the power from a single cylinder. On a 12 cylinder engine, you could get double the .xx power since two cylinders are at full power and two are at the reduced .xx power. I honestly have no clue but it seems like it might be a thing.
Two Strokes are alive and well most of the humongous engines in container ships are two strokes and run forward to go forward and in Reverse to backup
Makes my head hurt trying to figure it out. 😂
Good video
That’s a wild design but would it be more efficient or more of a headache? Great info by the way!✌️
Trying to wrap my head around the change in stroke. Does the whole crank move up and down, which would lead to ask what sort of main bearing design would be used, or, does each rod just change its stroke length, which would require a planetary setup on each rod. Confusing. Also, I wonder if the "extra" stroke, with the air from the ports on the bottom of the cylinder, is meant to burn off retained exhaust gases and/or EGR gases which could be done by the introduction of the new intake air.
I actually seen one 6 stroke diesel tgat used water after the exhaust stroke to act like a steam engine they said were water is injected when the valve is closed I’ll try to find the video for ya
There are a lot of ideas in that patent, all of which are now licensable to Porsche...
The biggest problem I can see with this design is increased friction, lack of oiling, and lower fuel economy. Then add in the government mandated EGR and after treatment and you're staring at failure.
The 8 stroke Lada engine that Garage54 channel made was more interesting.
I think the extra complication and weight of that system will cause the crank to vibrate itself to pieces.
What would that sound like? Crazy stuff.
Telling me you have to many engineers without telling me you have to many engineers
The Ford Motor Company has engineered and manufactured a 3 cylinder , 6 piston , and twin crankshaft engine .
Also copied after an aircraft engine .
Wouldn't it be easier to Alter the Cam , lobes on the back side of the cam to allow for additional Air ? yeah I know it wouldn't work , 360 on the crank and 720 on the cam
I think the gear teeth would shear off of the crank
This is as wacky as the variable compression/displacement engines.
Long live Screamin' Jimmy!!!
Could it be for a low rpm, high torque, high power application?
Hi Josh, l do have question in mind on Cat engines specially from C10 through C15. When Jacobs are Set or switched On during the time when our engines exhaust that compressed air, do injectors inject fuel in the piston chambers?
No, because you only use Jake's when the throttle position is at 0 and the RPM are above idle speed, so the injectors should not be firing fuel.
Where can I get one of those CAT hats?
Egr from another cylinder is what the ports are for if I'm thinking it's free fuel
It will work as long as the intake valve is open just before piston down stroke past the ports then up stroke plus fuel makes boom boom
I remember reading about Bruce Crowler and his 6 stroke STEAM-O-LENE ENGINE in popular science in the early 2000s. I Kept wondering what happened to the technology
Bruce had the proof of concept , but wanted Cat or some major manu to take it from there . Had interest , but no takers .
why don't they use opposed pistons?
I can understand it for emissions purposes. But you lost me on the different stroke length and transfer ports. Is the crank only supported at each end? How could the stroke length change if it had a traditional block?
the big end is coupled to an eccentric.
@martin-vv9lf so it only has two main bearing journals then? It's not like the throws are going to extend only for certain strokes. It just doesn't seem like a dependable or durable design.
@@BigJfan same number of main bearings as any other inline engine. I agree that it won't be reliable. v twin engines tried to use concentric bearings on the big ends, and oiling them was challenging, according to wikipedia. this will be worse. I don't fully understand why they can't do like the atkinson cycle does and open the valves instead to achieve the same effect with less complexity. there were gas start diesels that operated similar, they had a lower compression when a valve into the head was opened.
Parts left out/not required, cost nothing and cause no service issues.
👍
All i can see is a bunch problems because the crank has to chage its stroke just cant see longevity in this design
All about tue unburnt gas. Emissions, all tue catalytic thieves be like 😰😰
Leave the over complication to the Germans 😂