hey so uuuhhhhh teensy little correction you can disregard the final chapter because as it turns out, TF2's player counts have remained stagnant since 2018 and the "player growth" was pretty much entirely bots. i'd thought that was only part of it and didn't know of the truly absurd scale of these bot farms, but zesty jesus' "TF2: Nobody's Home" video (watch that if you haven't already) proves pretty conclusively that every new peak player count was 100% from new bots with that being said i still am glad to see that TF2's real player counts haven't decreased despite years of no major updates, but this is still a certified oof moment
Engi: heavy we are travelling for Mannhattan, now if you can give me tha- Arriving at ctf_turbine and the blu are stomping. Heavy: engi, why they are robots with unlocks at our spawn Door spinning. Engi: heavy, where the fuck we are now?
Call me a kook but in my mind it seems like a very easy way to divert blowback. Get people upset about something other than glaring issues; it also makes them look better in hindsight because they were "responsive" and "communicative" enough to "fix" that "problem." I only say this because they did it like 3 fucking times. They should've known after removing it the first time that ctf is not a competitive gamemode. Maybe the second time was just a mistake. The third time though? It was either a joke, a way to divert blowback/score brownie points upon its removal, or complete and utter confusion and cluelessness.
and you used to be able to connect your friend from steam and don't worry about pointless xp and badge. the servers used to never truly die the moment match end. half the server leave the moment you lose in casual and you keep getting steam rolled, then the server die cuz the winner team get bored of one sided match. team scramble spectator team switching were removed stupid balancing and other many bad things MYM did to tf2. MYM is why we here today.
And I'm still chilling on community where I don't have bots. So idk what everyone else's masochistic obsession with staying on casual is about. If we abandoned valve servers that would send the message
As someone who joined after JI, I wish I could've used quickplay.......(also, is MYM the reason Smash Fortress died? cause if so screw that update even harder.)
They really do, in part because new players don't even what it is, there's a good chunk that joined during jungle inferno if not after It's honestly sad how reverting to it would fix a lot of the issues i have with playing current casual
well, i was a quickplay user but that was the first step that estranged people from the server browser. i remember playing in community too but it was difficult to find vanilla server and sometimes, even if i love modded servers, you just want to play the base game but it was probably me that never learn the tag to filter the servers even if more or less i played the game since 2007 and own it since 2010
I find it amazing that people underestimate the remaining value of the damned server browser. Worked back in the late '90s for Quake, still works today. Matchmaking and Quickplay are functionally the same thing: "Push button, play game."
As someone that started playing during the backend of updates (August 2014), I lived through that decline but didn’t really know what was going on. This video shed light on that and it was incredibly well made, thank you!
I still can't get over the fact that they forced matchmaking on casual players. I hate playing casual so much now that I've only reached level 52 in 7 years, and my review is negative since then.
I somewhat agree with this. Casual MMR does exist, it's a background number that helps nobody, and I hate it. Worse still is party-vs-party matchmaking. From what I've experienced, it seems the game prioritizes putting groups of people partied together in the same lobbies (regardless of party size). This means that if you're grouped with 1 or 2 friends it's highly likely that you'll get matched against some 6 stack or a group of bots.
Where I live there were some really atrocious community servers that ran only a set of maps over and over again with some really pubstompy teams something that the matchmaking fixed, one time there was this one loser that impersonate another popular community server and would ban anyone at random. People saying that community server were better are just being inconsiderable with the rest of the community that exists outside of Europe and the US.
>valve makes TF2 f2p and has community servers on quickplay >"NOOO NOW OUR COMMUNITY SERVERS WILL BE OVERRUN WITH BAD NEW PLAYERS" >valve makes quickplay only search official servers by default >"NOOO NOW OUR COMMUNITY SERVERS WILL DIE FROM A LACK OF NEW PLAYERS" Hysterical.
FYI I ran a server during the days of Quickplay. A very goofy, heavily modded server, but one that managed to adhere to the settings outlined in order to qualify for being queued into (at least during a Vanilla map). I never once expressed the 1st sentiment you listed, because we were all new once, people can learn, and it should be more about having fun together as a community. A lot of people were introduced to my server through Quickplay and are still in contact all these years later. I shut the server down after a year and a half (Jun '12 - Oct. 13) due to stress, but attempted to start it up again in 2017. While there are many other reasons for this, the attendance was not what it used to be despite advertising it the exact same way and I can't help but think the move to strictly Valve servers for matchmaking is partially to blame. Tbh I get it. The appeal of instantly joining into a full server where you don't have to wait around for people to join is too hard to pass up. You also know what you're getting immediately. I've thought about starting mine up with many many players moving towards community servers as an escape from the Bot crisis, & the demand for good ones going up, but with a focus on incentivizing those initial brave souls milling around at 1-3 players who play long enough to get it full. Things like 3x the amount of credits you get for custom "shop" items- Chat tags, MvM player models, cosmetics etc. Also the ability to toggle tf2 bots till players join, and alerting the player to maps that are better for lower player counts (climb maps, jump maps, co-op maps, boxing maps). If I could pause time I swear to everyone reading this we'd have one of the best community servers but ya know, job, life kinda takes precendence. I guess my point in all this is to say many server owners suffered who were not complaining in any way about "bad players". The more the merrier to me.
I find the whole community server saga ironic and kinda funny how those toxic veteran players first bullied the new player then straight up lied to Valve, only for those action to cause community servers to wither away. All because those new player weren't joining their games.
@@Fatsaver i don't know man. maybe it's just me coping but the fact tf2 was not cancelled after 9 years of development hell and reworks and restarting development. maybe at one time. they did care... or because valve at the time was a AA or indie developer before steam and the loot boxes blow up and made them care about nothing that is not with a B (billion dollars) back then. they could not afford the luxury of sitting on their a$$ all day and canceling things left and right.
@@Fatsaver you are not lying. it was their attempt at encouraging cheap labor (aka community created updates) to run their own live service model for theme. even if i feel really sad for what happened at end of the line and i really sympathise for the one guy who been overworked to put Valve level update. the rumours of tf2 having "15" deves and Robin walker leaving tf2 for good in 2013 (one year before end of the line) is not coincident. Valve had dota dota csgo at that time. also i think the failure of those community updates made valve do their own for a time. until the disaster known as MYM was rushed because of the Overwatch beta (2014) rushed or not. comp doesn't work or belong in tf2. tf2 is "organic 12v12 chaotic attack defense class based shooter". the jungle inferno update was valve last attempt at tf2. but just after it tf2 hit it lowest player numbers. you know why ? because they didn't bring back tf2 that they killed with MYM. WE NEED quick playback. casual mode was a mistake. and this is coming from someone who joined tf2 in 2015. just before MYM (been following the game for years until i got pc to play it)
the thiung about tf2 is that it doesn't take itself seriously. you could argue that all the other valve games take themselves seriously (you don't see unicorn hats in half-life or left 4 dead) and tf2 is an outlier. i'm no exception to that way of thinking because i moved to csgo when all this was happening for a more "serious" gaming experience. so maybe valve doesn't see tf2 in the way it should be seen; they see it as another cash grab like csgo or dota. i would love to know what valve has thought about tf2 since the beginning; do they see it as the fun, quirky, doesn't-need-to-be-taken-seriously (but absolutely can be) hybrid movement shooter that it is or do they see it as a mod that they bought from the community to eventually turn into a serious cashgrab? i'm sure that at the beginning they thought the former; they DID create all the updates that made tf2 what it is, but i'm guessing capitalism corrupted them and they spent years turning tf2 into what it thrives on NOT being.
As someone that quit after MYM but started playing again recently and is having a blast, TF2 will truly never die. The community won't let it. I think TF2 is mostly a victim of valve's company structure, which isn't well suited for supporting a game long term. This is unlikely to change, but I hope valve realizes how much life TF2 still has. The best outcome in my opinion would be for them to pass it on to a dedicated third party team.
Tbh... valves company structure isn't really good for anything, in general. Not good for the current TF2, not good for the theoretical future Portal 3, not good for prett much anything except DotA, CS, and the steam storefront.
Valve aren't really all that concerned about their games anymore tbh, steam brings in enough revenue as it is. I also highly doubt they'd let go of their egos enough to give TF2 to someone that would actually care for the game
why pass it to a third party team when the community itself is what keeps the game alive (summer and scream fortress 2023 brought in official modes from community ideas)
@@icecube9765that's, basically what's being suggested here. Rather than having the single Valve dev pick and choose what community stuff comes in, have it be a group of trusted community members, maybe including the dev, who both make and review content and balance suggestions to be put in.
@@lunalesombras1150 I wouldn't be so quick to trust, "Community Members," because it will be abused. Valve doesn't want cliques, or a, "Cool Kids Club," to call the shots with gameplay. As with all good intentions; it will only lead to Hell very fast. V-script gamemodes is as best as they can get; not the norm of TF2 as a whole. You'd need Causal, Competitive, and MVM members; all these groups are rife with biases that have a chance to force their ideal default state of the game. For example, the MVM Community Members will just remove Gas Passer Explode on Ignite, Infinite Refunds, and whatever else they don't find fun. This leads to an Hell where normal players have no say in the matter, whatsoever. Instead, you just gave a select few power that's going to be forced upon others.
Oh god, I remember pressing "Random" in Quickplay and jumping of joy when being put into a freak fortress server. Me and my brother had not figured out how the server browser worked until much much later. So getting this seemingly 1 in a million chance felt so nice. Wonderful nostalgia
This has become one of the hardest videos to watch for me. it took me 3 sittings to fully watch the video without feeling actual pain, the fact that TF2 could have remained such an amazing game if only VALVe didn't rush the MYM update because of the entire internet hyping for overwatch, and then dropping the game on life support after another update without fixing anything. and now we just get the same boring updates with the same boring, saturated and not-fitting cosmetics and warpaints AND maps on the queue that doesn't feel like it should be on TF2, and it hurts me so much that it will remains like this forever. YES the game is not dead, it's more alive than ever, but it hurts so much that it's in this state, and for me the TF2 i know it's dead.
I miss the server browser so much. Also worth noting that Valve servers not showing up in the browser effectively kills all niche gamemodes. Imagine being able to instantly hop into the most populated Mannpower, Pass time, Doomsday or Degroot Keep server if you love those gamemodes or just want to try them out. Instead you can either sit in the lobby for hours waiting to get put into one of these modes if you queue for them exclusively or you can get put in them once in a blue moon by chance if you add them to your list of other maps. What a travesty.
very true, I miss those days, the weird maps are all my faves so I really felt this tho just on a positive note, if you keep those gamemodes in your casual selection, you will get them sometimes, and queuing for them exclusively doesn't always take as long as you'd think
Glad somebody said it! Ive been thinking the same thing where matchmaking basically killed all niche gamemodes because nobody wants to sit in a lobby for hours to be queued up for 2 measly matches whereas before you could just simply... join the server yourself. Even Payload Race is dead because of matchmaking.
its bad that most didnt experience it because now people blindly hate on the miniscule comp playerbase while also using casual as a scapegoat whenever they see fit
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413Even though i didn't experience it myself (joined 2 months after the blue moon update, but only started investing time into the game a year later), I completely disagree with casual players that claim that the comp playerbase "ruined" TF2. The MyM update was entirely Valve's fault imo, since they not only rushed it in order to compete with Overwatch, but despite receiving plenty of feedback from competitive players during and after the competitive stress tests, Valve changed virtually nothing on top of that. They still clinged onto their "casual" perspective of the game when making the competitive mode despite it having supposed to be a COMPETITIVE competitive mode, not a casual competitive mode. Additionally, the graphics restrictions were the final nail in the coffin in terms of playability.
I think a lot of the increased player counts are not only due to the pandemic, but more specifically because Overwatch fell off a cliff in terms of enjoyability and reputation. A lot of long-time TF2 players, including myself, moved to OW in 2016 and after how horrific MYM was there wasn't ever really a reason to go back. If the mistakes here seem egregious, you could make a 4 hour video analyzing just how badly Blizzard failed Overwatch in every conceivable way. I know I definitely was a player that came back during that 2021-ish period of time. It was refreshing! Great video, and really well put together. I'm glad this game did not die off completely.
Ah, yes, the update that made me QUIT the game, infamous MYM. How could I forget it. For real, I LEFT TF2 for Overwatch wholeheartedly back then. The only time that I willingly uninstalled TF2. (I came back few months later when Valve cleaned up casual, due to how fast OW community became toxic because of comp, though) It's honestly mind blowing how TF2 survived it and started to flourish in the aftermath. Maybe, sometimes, trying to follow the hot trend like going competitive isn't an answer. Anyway, thank you so much for reminding me of it. Salute to your persistent of digital-mining those reference videos, too! Made me real nostalgic ngl
The problem wasn't TF2 appealing to competitive play, the problem was with how they executed it. They should've kept quickplay and just added a skill based or rank based matchmaking system for ranked play with a few weapon bans and class limits.
there have been people who have gotten hooked on the most addictive drugs known to humanity and still managed to overcome their addiction before a TF2 player truly stopped playing.
IT DID DIE. The soul part. MYM did and irreparable damage to how tf2 play fundamentally and killed the micro community that build up when you keep playing on the same server for 3h. With many many other things.
You really hit the nail on the head on how bad MYM devastated TF2 community and led Valve to abandon the game. TF2 is the kind of game you can goof off and have fun any which way you want depending on what type of player you are and Valve almost completely destroyed that with Competitive and Causal matchmaking (and poor UI design :P). Casual is okay now but it is extremely painful when you keep getting matched with bots, especially now with Scream Fortress XV. I still try to play on community servers that aren't 24/7 2fort or dustbowl classwars whenever I can.
TF2 should of never been a competitive game to begin with. I mean the game doesn't even take itself seriously. Not EVERY game should be competitive and I blame that community for ruining the game.
@@Labyrinth6000The update being a disaster was entirely Valve's fault, if Valve would've actually listened to the competitive community and changed things from the betas, we wouldn't be here complaining about it right now.
@@Labyrinth6000you dont take the game seriously because youre bad at it lmao the game is inherently full of insane depth since its the leftovers from the days of quake, with added mechanics that you dont see anywhere else if tf2 was completely unable to have a competitive scene, one wouldnt pop up literally a month after release youre only complaining because you cant accept that the big bad comp is something you made up
Deluded compers in this thread. If tf2 comp were to succeed, it would. Turns out 6v6 is boring to watch and not tf2 at all. Who would've thought. Guess Valve was right.
I've been playing since a month before the Scout update. You hit the nail on the head here. I don't need new weapons, new maps, or new hats. As much as I'd like them, I don't even *need* good balance changes, or bug fixes. I just need to join a server, and have a good time. And the easier that is for everyone, the better the game will do.
If I could ask for a single balance change on a single weapon, I'd ask for the damage vulnerability on the buffalo steak sandvich to be inverted into a damage resistance. I just can't fathom why a weapon that restricts you into melee, would make you MORE vulnerable to damage.
@@LucyTheBox high risk high reward. its downside shouldn't be damage vulnerability however... it should be any of the following: A: doesnt heal at all B: takes longer to recharge or has to be earned via damage C: reduces max health or blocks overheal/uber
I'm glad you're here and putting to words, exactly the sort of series of missteps that caused TF2 to fall from grace. I've often had this conversation with people and it's exhausting because it was a series of decisions and not so much one singular event, so I'm glad that I have a single video I can point to that lays out everything so well. Though I'm baffled at your endorsement of the spy speed buff which was probably the second-worst change made to the game after the Meat Your Match update. But I have to comment on this here at 53:42 . The idea that matchmaking "regularly surpassed 15 minutes" is an incredible understatement. Matchmaking at this time regularly hit more than /2 hours/. I'm a North America player, East coast for anyone wanting context and thinking this is about an unpopulated region. When the update launched I would not be able to find a game /for hours/ before I gave up trying. I watched movies on my TV while idly checking to see if it had connected me to a match yet. The day I was able to watch LOTR: Return of the King and the matchmaker still hadn't connected me to a match, I gave up and uninstalled. I didn't want to use the matchmaker at all, but as you so rightly pointed out, Valve choked the life out of the community servers that kept the game alive up until that point in time. I felt I really had no choice but to leave the game, as it was quite literally unplayable. Imagine being an old school TF2 player, spent years casually going from server to server, able to avoid obvious cheaters with ease, to being forced into a match where you knew if you left you wouldn't be able to get another match that day. That's what really killed it for me. Meat Your Match, amongst many other horrors, basically forced you to stay in a match with cheaters because it was unlikely you'd be able to get into another match that day. So it's either play with cheaters and/or bots, or don't play at all. Or, exactly as you put it at 1:15:30 . Couldn't spectate sus players to make a better determination if they were cheating, couldn't switch teams after an autobalance and teams got even again so you could go back to playing with your friends (autobalance back then wasn't so big of a problem because you could switch back after teams balanced out again, so autobalance was an inconvenience at best and didn't ruin matches back then). The match was ruined and there was nothing you could do about it except suffer for even longer because the alternative was another attempt at matchmaking which would take hours. What a godawful update. I honestly don't know how the game survived for the weeks where people could literally not play it. But I suppose there's something to be said for player loyalty. 1:06:20 worth noting that this feature still doesn't work most of the time. As someone who still gets dragged into playing, my friend can in be in a server that is half-empty for over five minutes and the game still won't let me join. Out of dozens of times we tried to connect to one-another to start playing immediately, this has only worked twice to get me into a match with a friend. We've given up on it as a feature and instead of us joining into each other's games, we just immediately quit our match and re-queue so we can actually start playing together.
I don't know, now, I wasn't around for the times before quickplay and their "matchmaking" but the idea of having to rely on community servers sounds like a pain. I'd rather consistency then luck and I vastly prefer this new system over even quickplay. I only really tolerate community servers now.
@@yipflaptheexecutioner6519 Well, you'd be wrong. Navigating the community server list was easy, especially if you were actually playing the game back then and could recognize the different types of servers. If you wanted a hardcore gaming experience, you went to the tryhard servers, if you wanted a more relaxed experience you hop into something running more vanilla options, and if you wanted to just fuck around with friends, you could pop into any of the Mario Kart/Wacky Racers/Blimp Racing servers and just have fun. It was an experienced catered to those who played the game, and considering the sheer amount of community servers finding one you wanted to play on was super simple and easy.
@@yipflaptheexecutioner6519Imagine being able to reliably join a default community server with very few modifications to the gameplay mode and a good general mix of player levels, and if you didn't like it or a hacker showed up you could just leave and join a different one in less than a minute. That's what Valve servers were like, and what MYM took from us. QP was basically just a way to quickly get into one without being picky about which one you would join.
Glad to see people are finally recognizing how devastating the removal of quickplay to community servers and how matchmaking actually facilitated the rise of bots. Whenever I mention MyM and how bad it was people always seem to either have no negative opinion on it or deny it's awful repercussions. I see people are finally connecting the dots. The system really should be removed.
Yeah, I vaguely remember feeling alone in my opinion, so I just quietly left the game and only started looking back in the past year, thanks to TF2 youtube videos being pushed to me again.
@@capofantasma97They should've just kept TF2 community run imo. You didn't have to deal with cheaters back then. And even now in todays community servers, cheaters/aimbots won't target them because they're actively moderated.
@@RichterOvertimeHey could you make a poorly informed video on tf2 again? One with a click bait title and misinformation for people to never be corrected on? Thanks!!!❤🎉 Editing 2 days from posting: @RichterOvertime basically made a video during the file leaks, which are dated before Jungle Inferno, That TF2 was dead. The title was “Tf2 is officially dead” but he’s now changed it but the thumbnail has the text still written. This got Moistcritical to react to his video live on stream and at the time I vaguely remember before the title change he had 300-400k views on the video already. His whole video was based off the fact there’s nothing in these files that show any work being done on the game but it turns out it’s just an old file but his like to dislike ratio using extensions were extremely positive and commenters were all talking about the death of the game and future. Really bad for a community ran game at this point. He made one of the most popular tf2 videos if you include the reaction and attention it got from outside of the community and it’s huge view count from essentially bullshitting about something he hardly knew about and produced in a rush and never clarified till the summer update was announced Imo, it was all just negative bullshit that didn’t need to be so clickbaity. It gave TF2 really negative press and many people I doubt from Moistcriticals stream will know about tf2 summer update announcement and how valve is slowly warming up to tf2. The game already has a poor retention of players due to cheaters and communication restrictions he didn’t need to make this poor video to worsen the situation. This is the video I’m talking about: ruclips.net/video/8un3dBLVSCw/видео.htmlfeature=shared
The bit at the end about TF2 being the last bastion of old-school multiplayer gaming is absolutely true. I began playing TF2 in late 2021 after getting a laptop for Christmas to use for college the next year, I decided to give TF2 a shot. I had been interested in TF2 because I'd heard about it in passing and also I had watched LazyPurple's "How It FEELS" series, but no other reason other then that. But after I played it, even being a stupid fresh-install who maybe got 1 kill a game if I was lucky, I was completely and totally hooked. TF2 (the game itself, not Valve) respects it's players. While it has all those microtransactions, they're all totally optional, and while they _are_ a bit predatory, I think MTX are always going to be a bit predatory no matter what. And the community, while it has many, MANY blemishes, I love it. The memes, the inside jokes, the RUclips content, all of it- It's what keeps this game going. Without this community, it would have died. I've long given up any hopes of a new major update. I really wish Valve would do something new already, and I suppose it hasn't been long enough to tell yet, but if Summer 2023 doesn't get Valve back to making content for TF2 I truly don't think anything else will. But Summer 2023 also proved that that's OK. The maps added in Summer 2023 were all bangers, even if some like Venice weren't amazing, maps like Selbyian and the VSH maps are awesome, and despite its problems I'm glad Valve seems OK with adding more community-made gamemodes like we saw with Zombie Infection in Scream Fortress XV. TF2 is the single most resilient game I have ever seen, and after everything that's happened and continues to happen with it, I truly believe TF2 will be around for many many more years to come. The community refuses to go down without a fight.
I love that you put in a lot of effort into explaining and exploring Valve’s thought process on all of these changes, but when it comes to Turbine staying in the comp maps, you’re just like “ok guys, wtf?”
fun fact: casual matchmaking actually has a mmr/elo system, but its so bad that its been practically non functional for several years my elo is still only in the 1300s
Valve should do either 2 things: Remove casual and bring back quickplay or add an actual functioning elo system that matches you with people of roughly the same skill/experience. Without this, casual is basically just a worse, much slower version of Quickplay with more restrictions.
@@gackybasscs2 is nowhere near as bad as ow2 or mym if you want a real terrible cs update, mention the release of csgo or the global economy update for css, with 10 dollar m249s
Nah it's a positive change overall. Given back in the day f2ps were basically segregated anyway this ended it in a way that made sense. Also, community servers were way too hit or miss, valve servers have always been the ideal way to play
@@Jiub_SN The biggest problem with casual for me is the fundamental way that it works. I would always connect to Valve servers via server browser or join my friends via adhoc. If one of us got autobalanced we could at least goof around and wait for a slot on the other team to open up again and rejoin it. Now that's a re-queue. If a Valve server was bad it was also easier to find a new one then it is now via server browser. I don't like waiting on a queue. I like actively searching for a game and picking where that server is located. Too often I get thrown in an LA or Washington server where I have pretty poor connection (and hitscan hitreg on LA Valve servers has always been weird even during the quickplay era but at least then I could avoid them). I would just play on community servers, but there aren't too many options for just the normal game anymore and I'd rather not go to 24/7 2fort.
You know that feeling when your nose is stuffed but then gets clear and you can breathe well once again? Damn, this video has really clear a lot of things to me, or at least a very good summary.
I started playing TF2 back in 2010 and never really stopped. With that perspective in mind, this is among the best recounts of these events I’ve seen. I often see the old heads blame the Uber update for the game’s decline while jungle inferno newcomers blame bots for it and it’s honestly a series of unfortunate events which led us here. I do regularly think back to the events of ~2016 and how the air was electric with anticipation in the community. With things like the global whitelist, competitive letters, and even casual RUclipsrs hyping the release of MYM it felt like all hands were on deck and that something amazing was about to happen, a golden age was on the way. Sadly, the crushing arrival of MYM really scarred the player base. In hindsight, MYM was likely my single largest let down in gaming simply because I’m still playing TF2 today and feeling it’s effects (or lack-thereof).
As someone who played TF2 Back in June 2008 thanks to the Orange Box I got as a birthday present, All I can say to those who first played the game after Jungle Inferno is that I SERIOUSLY feel sorry for you! You missed out on the GOLDEN AGE when Valve put SO MUCH dedication to TF2! So many updates, comic lore, merchandise, and other games on Steam wanted to promote their content in the form of TF2 weapons and cosmetics and the game was at the top of the world. Playing TF2 after Jungle Inferno for the first time is best described as going to a friends party after hearing how amazing and wild it is and by the time you showed up, the party was over hours ago and the only people left are a handful of passed out people, trash everywhere, and the house being a mess where YOU have to make the best of it. It is a never ending purgatory until Valve does something about it and the best this year is the new official VSH and ZI modes and the 100 man servers.
I started playing tf2 in about 2018 I think and I can't lie, I've still had a blast playing the game as I followed tf2 RUclipsrs back in the day and the first time I heard about the game was from Muselk and really enjoyed watching his videos. I know many people think the game is just not the same, but in my eyes I still see it as a very fun game with new ways to play over time.
I have had a vendetta against the concept of matchmaking since it (mostly) ruined this game, and god damn do I appreciate this video, especially the point that the outdated level of player freedom that tf2 still provides is exactly the thing that has kept it alive, it blows my mind how many modern games don't even let you pick what map you want to play on
casual games are so awful compared to what it was like playing on a valve server. back then people would stay on the server between maps, but now in casual it takes so long between the end of a match, to map switching, to pre-game (which is a thing now for some reason?), to the next map actually starting that everyone leaves games the second they finish to re-queue. Meaning that you never can just sit on a valve server for an hour, getting to know the people on it and making friends haven't even mentioned the removal of joining friends via ad-hoc connections on steam, in casual now you can only play with up to 5 friends whereas before you could all join the same valve server and just make it basically your own for a few hours
Honestly, probably the biggest issue I have with Auto-balance is that it happens at some of the worst times. I can understand if the game is halfway done and they need to balance the teams, but it really sucks when I'm switched teams right before I'm about to win. Perhaps they could do some tweaking so that if one team is on the verge of winning the auto balance won't occur until the start of the next round.
A fantastic, fantastic video. I truly believe you're one of the best tf2 content creators on this entire platform. This is by far one of the best, nuanced takes I've seen on the history of the game and why it's in its current state, and as someone who only joined well after jungle inferno it's suddenly starkly apparent what happened.
The TF2 devs are ancient 90s gamers, CTF was the best gamemode in TF1, thus they believe it's the best in TF2 as well. To be fair though, 2fort is statistically the most popular map in casual!
I think competitive was a hot potato they kept passing to each other without giving much detail so that they would not pass it to someone else right after
Been playing tf2 for 13 years now, no update got me closer to quitting permanently, the death of the valve servers was awful, no switching teams, no joining from the browser, endless queues to join a friend's game that was in progress.. also the SLOW BUGGY death of the Join Game button through steam for some reason (?), i dont even think its possible any more, if im playing a community server I just have to send the ip and explain to my friends how to use that.. sigh, i wish we could just UNDO casual and bring it back to post 2014 quickplay
"Fuck f2ps! Get em out of our servers! >:(" "ok" "wait no come back ; ;" I like how they did 11 major stress tests to do nothing but fix lobby bugs from them reusing the mvm lobby
I connected with some of my greatest friends by finding them in the pre-MyM 5CP Valve servers. We would stay in servers for sometimes hours, following the servers through many map changes and many time extensions. Sometimes we'd hunt each other down on opposite teams with Cabers and taunt after killing, sometimes we'd encourage the entire team to do class wars, most of the time we'd just mess around in a Steam or Mumble call and trash talk each other through the many team scrambles. Eventually we formed our own comp TF2 teams, and even though it's been years since we last loaded into a comp setting together, we still rock out in the same Discord and always have a conversation flowing throughout the day. I remember the day MyM dropped, we did a 6 stack that ended up in Powerhouse and got pretty bored of the experience and wanted to throw gamers on opposite teams to keep games from being back-to-back rolls. Imagine our surprise when not only could we not switch teams, but we couldn't drop into Valve servers like before. Gone forever because, and I totally agree with lister on this, Valve was chasing Overwatch clout and didn't have any confidence in the **9 years** of precedent the game already had. What kills me the most is the promise of a Heavy update and the continuous teasing Valve makes that they're aware of TF2's base existence, but have repeatedly proven unwilling or incapable to do anything. Whether it be the Rick May memorials, the official Twitter account acknowledging #saveTF2, Gabe Newell saying there was a bot response in the pipeline (spoiler: there wasn't), or the fiasco when the official TF2 blog wanting to create another major update for Summer 2023 before immediately backtracking to "update-sized update" and releasing another entirely community fueled Steam Workshop shlop. Valve refuses to say they're done for good on TF2, and I think that's almost entirely because it generates too much money for them, and any sign that the party's over would see a significant drop in revenue. Me, and I think a lot of people, have only a few requests for Valve. Release the Heavy update, remove Casual Mode and restore the system that existed before MyM, and release the final blog post that ends with "we're done for good, signed the TF2 team." The dumb bastards who pushed Casual Mode and Competitive are either gone from the company or come to terms that it was a complete and abject failure by now, for sure. Right? Keep the stupid annual Steam Workshop-fueled updates if you want, push in-game notifications for tournaments and give out medals even, but you're done. Don't tease a Spy vs Engineer update in the works, full stop. Stop waving a potential major update, for the millions of active players to get hyped over, then completely get deflated on when months of radio silence follow for the twentieth time. LEFT 4 DEAD 2 HAS HAD MORE MAJOR UPDATES IN THE LAST 5 YEARS.
To me, what made TF2 so enduring was the entire franchise of software and content built into it. GMOD pulls in custom models as well as allow content creators to create new ideas relatively easily. Source Film Maker, while incredibly outdated, still enables new film makers to experiment on a well researched and tested piece of software. TF2 pluggins and now Code enables a wide variety of games and other ideas to be made a reality, with the most popular one being VSH. Finally, the community content creators who develop different communities to mess around in. For me, that means Uncle Dane for super serious, and Shoenic and Solarlight for goofing off. Skial is awful to deal with.
Gonna be frank. Comp as an overarching concept is a plague on games and I'm sick of every major multiplayer release being designed to be an organised competitive esport. Meet Your Match was TF2's biggest attempt at it. Comp players themselves froth and scream at even the slightest notion of something being balanced around casual play or simple fun instead of sweatfest world tournaments because how dare the devs not make everything revolve around their clearly superior ideas for balance. They need to stay in their corner and shut up so we can have a return to the lost era of wild west casual multiplayer.
yeah looking back, that big push for competitive and "e-sport" during the 2010s was not the best idea(s). Not only did the development teams cause rift with causal and competitive as most of the time it, the balance are annoying. it best for the competitive side to community run as when the developers, it not really good. It comes across as "no fun allowed".
speaking of the wild west era as if you were around back then lmao as if cs wasnt competitive in the 2000s, or mobas werent a thing, or even team fortress classic, which was known as a fast paced comp game unlike any other none of these started as competitive games, they became them. youre like nintendo, trying to kill the smash bros comp scene because it was meant to be a party game >COMP PLAYERS ARE RUINING OUR FUN! but how >MUH CABER!!!!!! valve did it, nuff said. blame valve, not the player
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413Comp players are ruining fun by expecting everything the devs do to revolve around them and them alone while considering the rest of the playerbase to be second-class citizens. They are absolutely deserving of the blame.
@@hyperdimensionblissexcept thats not what happened and youre making up phantoms to shake your fist at if anything youre the one expecting valve to revolve around you lol
The ESports market is extremely saturated, just like Battle Royale and zombies were back then. It's just that it took people a lot longer to get sick of it, I have this feeling that the reason why so many people are playing for the first time or just coming back to TF2, it's because the game is a lot more casual and take itself less seriously. Nowadays, a new MP game feels like it was made by investors that don't even play games and just look at what is being a success around them, Valorant, Apex Legends all look the same as Overwatch, LoL and others, for example. TF2 is disconnected from this market and people saw it as fresh air. Out of all competitive games from the 2010's, the only one I can see it's still relevant is CS:GO (CS:2 is just CS:GO in the Source 2 engine).
I still have this conspiracy theory that when valve was working ""with """ the competitive community. I was joining the comp comm right in the end of 2015 and everybody was hyped to talk to valve for a "Comp update" and my conspiracy was that valve let players balance weapons while valve was adjusting the matchmaking. And I remember a comment there saying "this will be our update" just like invasion or end of the line. And some others forcing matchmaking on "pubs" When the updated launch I straight up quit tf2 until they patched the long wait times for a match, the stopwatch, and the forced "not being able to join mid match" It felt like everybody on board jumped off when their solutions didn't work, valve included. To me, that was the day tf2 killed their own flare. My favorite community lists not only became 0/24 but made them go offline. I... just play tf2 from time to time from that day. But anyways. Great video!!!!
i remember quickplay, it was such a better system, it takes me like 5-10 minutes to join a server that I know has a lot of people, like the perks map or the zombie survival one. It's so annoying
Nobody ever claims that quickplay was perfect, but it certainly was objectively better in every concievable way than Casual MMS. MYM is literally why there is a botting crisis because the party system and forced automated matchmaking in servers that very frequently change their map usually to the same one that it was just on is the most ideal conditions for bot hosters to fuck everything up
I have no idea where this 'quickplay was bad' comes from. I've never seen anyone complain about it since they changed it to connect to Valve servers only. One click, 10-20 sec later you are already playing. No need for any matchmaking that takes minutes to find you a server.
Thank you for making this. TF2 was one of the first games I ever played on PC, over ten years ago. I joined about a year after the game went F2P. I have so many fond memories of various iterations of trade_minecraft and mariokart, of pubbing with my friends after school, of taunt kills, painted gibuses, silly sprays and conga lines. Over ten years later, in no small part due to my frustration with Valve’s mistreatment of this game and my want to do better, I have become a game designer and a Master’s level game scholar. Every now and then I’ll bring up TF2 in front of new students, starry-eyed and eager to share their own interests, and after inevitably clarifying that I’m not talking about Titanfall I heave a big sigh and tell them this very tale. It’s cathartic to look back and remember that I wasn’t the only one who saw the writing on the wall. Hopefully things continue to get better.
What a stupid reason to nerf that gun, especially since it's not exactly unthinkable to jump with more than two stickies without dying anyway. Like, the Uber is right there.
I still can't get over my own "golden era" in TF2, 2012-2014, especially around the Love and War update. I had a couple servers I would frequent, one that was vanilla KOTH 24/7 and another that was also vanilla maps but had some really crazy and zany plugins. The people I met there and the laughs I had really do still echo through my mind whenever somebody asks me "What's your favorite game?" and really it was never the mechanics that made me love TF2 so much but like many other people it was the social aspect of the game. It's so sad that there's very few other experiences like it, especially in modern gaming. Cool video dude.
As someone who started playing tf2 somewhere around 2021 and is still learning many playstyles and unlocks. It's really interesting to hear about the better (and uh worse) days this game I love has seen.
I started playing in 2009 and this game's definitely been through its ups and downs. I don't play it as often now but I always come back for at least a little while.
Dude, absolutely magnificent video. TF2 has always been my favorite game since 2014 and there are so many things in this vid that I had no idea were a part of TF2. I took a year long break from the game when the botpocolypse occurred and slowly got back into it and I am very happy that the community is still trying to keep the ship afloat. The halloween maps this year like crasher and sanitarium have been so much fun. Also the ever classic Carnival of Carnage.
Your TF2 history videos are always so well-made and I respect the amount of effort that goes into the research and editing! When it comes to the differences between the Quickplay and Matchmaking systems, I personally don't believe that it's as black and white as a lot of people like to say it is. They both have/had some pretty detrimental flaws that Valve refuses/refused to address. I think players like to look back on Quickplay with rose-colored-glasses because it's easier to point out issues with the current system while being nostalgic for the old ways. I personally prefer the *idea* of a matchmaking system more than Quickplay, but unfortunately Valve's apathy towards TF2 (which by the way, saying that Meet Your Match is a direct result of that apathy is pure speculation) has caused the system's inherent issues to be multiplied (mainly the cheater stacks/bots). I don't believe that TF2 (almost) died in Summer 2016 but I do believe that the addition of Matchmaking is unrealistically remembered as a historic downturn, despite the fact that the game has only flourished and continued to grow since. And keep in mind I say this as someone who has created and continues to maintain community servers as an alternative to Casual Mode. I don't think there is a right way and a wrong way. We can have the best of both worlds, and I think that's a big factor for TF2's everlasting success.
bro what are you talking about flourish lmao the game is already dead and a safehaven for cheaters cant wait to see you complaining about bots in the obligatory scream fortress video doe
@@UncleDaneit has already stuck, the quality of the game is overall worse, the playerbase has only gotten more annoying, and the game feels like a rotting husk being powered by hopes, dreams, and a little bit of autism the shell of the game is dead and broken, the reason why people play it, is because the core is almost intact but all in all, everything has gone down the shitter, bot hosters are still laughing at us and the only future the game has is new maps and modes being added by novice modders
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 As EU player that was constantly put on US servers a few days because reasons(?), all I can say that US servers are completely rotten. On just 2 maps, bots after bots, cheaters after cheaters. After doing almost all Halloween contracts on UE servers, I managed to see twice a bot spamming YT link in its name by joining and leaving the server, and one time a stack of 4 bots on enemy team. How US players can play Casual in this state is beyond me.
As someone who missed the golden age, of tf2 by literally 5 years. This video is amazing, and helps me understand why this update was so hated. Amazing video
At least Valve has accuratedly recreated the match making experience. Wasting. Your. Time. 5 cancels, 10 dodged just to get placed into a match with an AFK and 3 account buyers.
One major issue with the MYM update and removal of QP that gets overlooked, even in this video, is that even when QP was added you could still manually bring up and join Valve servers on the server list and join them immediately. This meant that even if you were running into bot issues or any other issues on whatever server you joined, you could still easily go somewhere else and continue to play. With MYM, all Valve servers were then utilized to exclusively playing Casual or Competitive matches, which meant you were stuck on whatever server you found with no reliable backup. This also *helps* bots become more effective, because the matchmaking algorithm will regularly favor certain servers, and regularly put you right back into the same match with the same bots that you just left. And, like this video did go over, the tools to fight the bots were also significantly gimped. I don't think anyone looking at the future of TF2 realized this would be the consequence - there was an unspoken belief that Valve would invest in new servers for the competitive scene and that the old Valve servers would still be around. And I think that's what really killed the game for a lot of people - because at least if Valve servers were still around then it wouldn't matter that comp and casual had a bot plague, you could still enjoy the game elsewhere. Now I don't even bother using the match making system at all. I just go straight to the community servers to play.
I seriously wish Valve reverted the meet your match changes honestly. Being able to just get on a server with the map you wanted, the amount of player you wanted and on the team you wanted was great.
Honestly, even if the launch of MyM went smoother and Valve's comp more were more in line with community standards, the lack of something like CSGO's Overwatch system would've been a serious threat to any longevity the mode could have. What would be the point of trying to grind through the ranks when squads of cheaters could just queue together and run wild with virtually no recourse for legitimate players other than hoping Valve would do manual banning sprees?
I discovered tf2 in mid 2020, and it is weird to imagine the game was once so different. I never experienced big events made by Valve, and never logged on a community server other than jump academy. I can still say I enjoyed my pub time with 300 hours, and a lot of bad spy main frustration too, but I wish I could play and enjoy the quick play experience, which I didn't even know had once existed before today.
I wish they could revert those changes so you could experience it. This game used to feel so fresh, free and enjoyable before those changes. Today's TF2 feels very DIFFERENT from old TF2.
@@fallingbrick9514 dunno, it has been a while since I last played tf2, but I believe I just wrote "jump academy" on the server browser, and joined closest one from where I live
Its so sad that a _youtuber_ managed to make an incredibly popular server just by adding a class limit and removing random crits. It hurts to think what competitive would have been if valve had just listened to the community
You are right about one thing. Meet your match didn't just almost kill TF2, it did kill TF2. It's was obvious from the start that the player counts was inflated with bots, but I was at first hopeful that maybe at least 50% of the players are actual humans. Heh, not even close. For the july summer update last year, less than 10% of the tf2 playerbase were actually humans all along and on average, about 80% of the steam player-base is just bots
Not to be that guy but valve servers were already in service prior to the uber update. They just became more popular and the only servers used by quick play around then. (Quickplay used to pull from both community and official servers prior to that.) The real loss for them was when they converted the official servers to the casual servers and no longer allowed direct connection to them through the server browser.
Imagine the timeline if valve kept quickplay but made comp its own seperate mode and adheared to what the comp players wanted, the game coudve thrived as well as having a fun comp mode/scene
Game would legit be having over 50k peak players every day if we had that, maybe even more. I can't understand what stupid juice valve was drinking when making meet your match. It's one of the most retarded handlings of any update of a game I have ever seen. It's honestly sort of impressive just how bad they dropped the ball.
Thanks for covering the f2p change and how annoying older players found it. Ive just recently gotten back into tf2 casually but it seems like alot of tf2 youtubers dont really cover this part in detail when almost everyone i knew quit and was the day tf2 died for us.
I'm sure the reason most RUclipsrs don't bring it up because very few of them actually played before the Uber Update, but it was cool hearing a new side of the story. I've always heard the Uber Update held as one of the best updates in TF2, and one of the most important, and while I think it is true without the Uber Update and making the game F2P was integral to the game surviving as long as it has, I think it's important we keep in mind what the players of the time thought
Yeah, i tried to return in summer update and the game isn't what i played before, i didnt even found casual experience it was before, where you can just hangout and play, and not getting kicked because you didn't do the objective. Maybe i became too old for this or demographics had changed.
@@DemodiX I get what you're saying, though I've never heard of anyone getting kicked for not doing the objective, at least not for several years. There are community servers that are just hangouts but personally I don't really like that, I'll do it in some instances but I get really bored quickly because every time I've tried to be social I've ended up miserable.
So, fun fact, I started playing tf2 around the time of Jungle Inferno's release (over 6 years ago at this point...), so pretty much all of this was a history lesson to me. I was always confused when people complained about casual, because it seemed fine to me?? But Ig I understand now why it made some people quit the game. Overall, it's hard for me to imagine this game being so fundimentally different, because to me it's always been the exact same. (The only thing that I took major notice of is when I lost the ability to talk in chat, because who cares about F2Ps, amirite?) I kinda can't even conceptualize this game getting a major update with, like, completely new weapons and real balance changes. The game has been more or less the way it is since I was 14, and I'm currently 21.
I wish they supported server browser more and encouraged people to use it. Nowadays people get scared at a ton of text on their screen and don't bother to use it because it looks old or is "too complicated". People getting used to modern matchmaking and it's limitations is just sad.
I first opened the game on October 5th, 2015; the day before the Invasion community update. I didn't start really playing the game until AFTER Meet Your Match. To know that I was only into the game after the good times were over... stings on a level that can't be described.
This video is somewhat deceitful. Server browser never went anywhere and community servers were there for you. Yeah sometimes you queued for couple of minutes to get into your favourite one but that's something everyone was used to. What changed for sure is that deluded pub stompers wanting comp no longer had a stream of fresh meat to dominate over and over. Enjoy trying breaking out of spawn on dustbowl as attacking side when all the pub stomp andies group up.
I can relate to this comment so bad because I had a similar experience only that I started playing on April 21th of the same year and only started to play the game daily after MYM hurts so bad.
Some quick thoughts (will probably leave something more detailed later as I get through the video): I joined into TF2 as a more casual F2P player initially in the early 2010s in high school but I got used to the game pretty quick and had a lot of fun just downing several rounds at a time or just doing random stuff on community servers (especially Degroot Keep or just messing around on trading maps). But when matchmaking was set up everywhere on the main servers with MYM, I just left the game for the most part. All of the easy fun of just being able to hop into a game instantly and go round after round was gone. I hated having to wait constantly for just one match, and then wait for who knows how long for another. Meet Your Match really left a bad taste for TF2 that I still haven’t gotten over. There’s plenty of those issues you noted for both casual and competitive players, but the inability to down multiple rounds at once without waiting was a no-go. Looking back, the removal of Quickplay, as flawed as it is, really just killed it for me sadly. (At the very least though, the various SFM and GMOD videos really help carry on the spirit and fun of the TF2 world.)
this video killed all of my hope for a major update I strated playing this game in 2016. my computer died and this why I could play seriously only in 2017 and exactly in 2017 the updates just stoped
I started playing tf2 around 2018-2019, a bit after Valve wasn't pushing out many updates for tf2. I thought casual was fine because I had only heard of bits and pieces of information about "pubs". This video opened my eyes at how bad Valve had actually handled the competitive situation. Additionally I had no idea that the botting issue reached as far back as 2016. Funnily enough, in the "aftermath" of the bot crisis, I find myself quickloading a community Skial server because its easier and faster to load up casual with a fraction of the people playing. Excellent video!
It's crazy to think that despite joining this community rather late around 2012 I was there for it all back when I used to browse the reddit in high school, I don't play TF2 as much as I used to, but it's definitely still a game that will always hold a special place in my heart. Great video.
Lister tour videos help me sleep at night and calm me on my long drives to work. Thanks for sharing your lovely soothing voice and niche information with us ❤
I've been playing since August 2017 and i guess this makes sense Years of hearing complaints and accusation from both sides of the argument and finally something that eloquently untangles this mess of opinions and events It always fascinated me how this game lives in a constant paradox where its problems, new and old, also reinforce just how great this game is, and it shows: people still make content related to it, the reputation it gained over time and just the sheer amount of players, and it's incredible how this game is really the last great bastion of a game philosopy long gone(although general opinion on esport and competitive focus is slowly changing). I may have missed the golden age, but i was still able to enjoy an experience now almost nonexistant(i'd say Minecraft still has dedicated servers tho), and i'm glad i did As for Valve now, what pains me the most is that i think Blue Moon-sized updates would honestly be fine, but it's kept alive by just one guy that i guess doesn't even have much of a connection with this game(the content of recent updates is mostly not great) and i really don't have that much hope left I truly wish for a reinassance to happen, but until then all i can say is great video, thank you for your job
i was one of those dirty F2Ps that began playing the game for the first time in June 2012. i remember having a small group of irl friends with whom a highlander team that never took off was formed in that era. i very vividly remember that from 2013 on my home server was often the now defunct 24/7 Alzephur Surf, a place that would have never been allowed in the old quickplay rotation and i would have never found if old friends at the time didn't lead me to it. the only reason i stopped playing the game in very early 2015 was that i became homeless, and essentially stayed that way for 5 years. kind of hard to keep playing when you don't even have a place to have a computer. when i became housed again and began playing the game regularly again in spring-summer 2021, i remember being quite overwhelmed at how much everything had transformed about the game. this was in the deep heat of the bot crisis, when it seemed like only casual payload was the sole safe haven (sometime) of casual. watching this, its pretty clear that i was absent for some Pretty Fucked Up Shit. i doubt that i would even be here today if i was playing the game in 2016. what a painful year that appears to have been. i will say this, partially because i think it would get some pretty funny comments: the big secret reason why valve comp matchmaking/meet your match was so heavily bungled? 🎉Capitalism🎉 why did I return when i did? the humor. nothing on earth in the world of gaming makes me laugh like TF2 does. no first person shooter for that matter; this remains the only first person shooter i dedicate myself to playing Because of the humor. ive often called overwatch "TF2 if it was made by the Tiktok voice" because i have observed that it tries way too hard to inflexibly pander to The Hardcore Gamer Who Enjoys Colorful Visuals without investing even the smallest degree in the intricacies of its character (more funny comments ill probably get lol). You will never get the demoman walking up to people, calling them "a bloody sentry", pointing at them laughing and promptly collapsing dead in overwatch. overwatch is not a game you ever hear about people laughing at. TF2 survives because of that humor, and the way it can manifest multifacetedly. the a-posing. the endless funny ways people can die. the way 2fort has practically become a simulation of an insane asylum. the username and cosmetic roleplays. the comms and micspamming. the voicelines and what you can make happen with them. the surviving voice actors themselves, most now in their 70s, using people's love of the voice lines to endlessly bless them with homemade collaborative content. TF2 lifts my spirits and that in turn makes me feel good enough to invent time into playing it the way it was originally intended as well. I'm not The Best player, but i still immensely enjoy myself in a totally unique way, bots be damned. TF2 has so much going for it that in the grand scheme make the bots feel today like a minor obstacle. I want to stick with this game and keep making videos of this game until i become too senile to even do the conga taunt. Valve will one day pull the plug completely on the game, but you and i both know the community will keep the game running on their own for as long as we can, possibly even with valve's blessing. blizzard dumped overwatch 1 after not even a third of TF2's lifespan. TF2 is practically a small secret international treasure at this stage of its life, one of the great little jewels of our planet that alien life will discover and marvel at eons from now
This video sums up exactly how I feel about MyM and it's rushed/broken arrival. It's so damn sad how this update was the catalyst for the issues this game faces today. Wonderfully put together video. Can't believe I haven't found this channel sooner!
I think we can all agree that the reason competitive failed was because of map variety. I think to truly revitalize the game mode they should add ctf_turbine back for a fourth time and remove any other map
Despite everything, I think MYM’s casual is a better version of Quickplay. I’ve been playing since 2010, and Quickplay was QUICK, but I’ve had multiple days where I’ve loaded into countless dead servers, no one to PLAY with. Casual at least guarantees a few people every time you queue, now. Even at its best, Quickplay felt like it had a 70% chance of getting into an empty server.
Yeah what the other dude said, try TF2 Classic. Its like a return to form of the 2008-2009 era of TF2 but with some new content (4 teams, VIP). Its my preferred way to play the game now.
It's genuinely extremely sad to know TF2 is on borrowed time. There is nothing quite like it, and very few multiplayer shooters that aren't Splatoon that are worth playing coming out anymore. Deadlock is looking to be a disaster, and so was Counter Strike 2, so Valve cannot even be trusted to touch TF2 again if they ever touch it again. Its sad to know that, some day, I won't be able to play it and there will probably not be any games that compare.
![The Evolution of Scout [TF2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_gTN3Is_PA4/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Evolution of Scout [TF2]](/img/tr.png)
![The Evolution of Heavy [TF2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cYEGtQN_c2o/mqdefault.jpg)
hey so uuuhhhhh teensy little correction
you can disregard the final chapter because as it turns out, TF2's player counts have remained stagnant since 2018 and the "player growth" was pretty much entirely bots. i'd thought that was only part of it and didn't know of the truly absurd scale of these bot farms, but zesty jesus' "TF2: Nobody's Home" video (watch that if you haven't already) proves pretty conclusively that every new peak player count was 100% from new bots
with that being said i still am glad to see that TF2's real player counts haven't decreased despite years of no major updates, but this is still a certified oof moment
Glad you remembered the part you made in the video and corrected it here! Your content is still great, keep it going! 😄
Damn, still a banger video tho
Thanks for correcting that in comments. It's news none of us wanna hear for sure but let's try to make the best out of the bad situation.
please make a video on #fixtf2
That's a certified oof moment. The bot problem really has taken over the game.
MvM players queuing up for a simple tower defense gamemode only to end up in a competitive match sounds hilarious.
i mean they did get to play against machines though
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413lmao truuu
Engi: heavy we are travelling for Mannhattan, now if you can give me tha-
Arriving at ctf_turbine and the blu are stomping.
Heavy: engi, why they are robots with unlocks at our spawn Door spinning.
Engi: heavy, where the fuck we are now?
@@El.fish.the.chocolate ctf*
@@MadContendery oops my bad mate
I like that they kept adding Turbine into Comp mode, it’s like a kid trying to sneak in a candy bar into the cart multiple times after mom said “no”
Call me a kook but in my mind it seems like a very easy way to divert blowback. Get people upset about something other than glaring issues; it also makes them look better in hindsight because they were "responsive" and "communicative" enough to "fix" that "problem." I only say this because they did it like 3 fucking times. They should've known after removing it the first time that ctf is not a competitive gamemode. Maybe the second time was just a mistake. The third time though? It was either a joke, a way to divert blowback/score brownie points upon its removal, or complete and utter confusion and cluelessness.
I can imagine tf2 devs arguing whether to bring back turbine or not like "Turbine's NOT for comp!" and "My beloved turbine will STAY!"
@@bumpermanthesecond615 turbine was the first map I remember playing when i got into tf2, TURBINE ON TOPPP
@@idonotcarekek im going to break your rose tinted glasses with a really big hammer
Im pretty sure turbine was played in a few comp tournaments
People don't realize that official servers were flooded with spinbots from the very first day casual rolled out. What an atrocity this update was.
Is that the real Richter "W Rizz" Overtime?
They love to blame the source code leak that happened 4 years later but the problem is the matchmaker system itself.
and you used to be able to connect your friend from steam and don't worry about pointless xp and badge. the servers used to never truly die the moment match end. half the server leave the moment you lose in casual and you keep getting steam rolled, then the server die cuz the winner team get bored of one sided match. team scramble spectator team switching were removed stupid balancing and other many bad things MYM did to tf2. MYM is why we here today.
I'm sorry that Postal3 leaked it :(
And I'm still chilling on community where I don't have bots. So idk what everyone else's masochistic obsession with staying on casual is about. If we abandoned valve servers that would send the message
One of the best videos you've put out. I think people really underestimate the damage that removing the "Quickplay" button did.
Wait, someone actually commented about the video AFTER watching it? This is… unheard of.
As someone who joined after JI, I wish I could've used quickplay.......(also, is MYM the reason Smash Fortress died? cause if so screw that update even harder.)
They really do, in part because new players don't even what it is, there's a good chunk that joined during jungle inferno if not after
It's honestly sad how reverting to it would fix a lot of the issues i have with playing current casual
well, i was a quickplay user but that was the first step that estranged people from the server browser. i remember playing in community too but it was difficult to find vanilla server and sometimes, even if i love modded servers, you just want to play the base game but it was probably me that never learn the tag to filter the servers even if more or less i played the game since 2007 and own it since 2010
I find it amazing that people underestimate the remaining value of the damned server browser. Worked back in the late '90s for Quake, still works today. Matchmaking and Quickplay are functionally the same thing: "Push button, play game."
As someone that started playing during the backend of updates (August 2014), I lived through that decline but didn’t really know what was going on. This video shed light on that and it was incredibly well made, thank you!
i almost confused you for soundsmith
do more discord trolling videos!!!!
me too, I started playing TF2 and CSGO at around 2014, it was crazy to see how both games took different paths since then
@@demering i would have never noticed that that wasn't soundingsmith if it wasn't for your comment lmfao
I still can't get over the fact that they forced matchmaking on casual players.
I hate playing casual so much now that I've only reached level 52 in 7 years, and my review is negative since then.
Fancy seeing you here, Love your videos especially the class wars ones!!
I somewhat agree with this. Casual MMR does exist, it's a background number that helps nobody, and I hate it.
Worse still is party-vs-party matchmaking. From what I've experienced, it seems the game prioritizes putting groups of people partied together in the same lobbies (regardless of party size). This means that if you're grouped with 1 or 2 friends it's highly likely that you'll get matched against some 6 stack or a group of bots.
Where I live there were some really atrocious community servers that ran only a set of maps over and over again with some really pubstompy teams something that the matchmaking fixed, one time there was this one loser that impersonate another popular community server and would ban anyone at random. People saying that community server were better are just being inconsiderable with the rest of the community that exists outside of Europe and the US.
Jesus Quick Play sounds horrible
@KakaCarrotCakeVideos community servers weren't perfect but they were way better than what we could get out of casual.
>valve makes TF2 f2p and has community servers on quickplay
>"NOOO NOW OUR COMMUNITY SERVERS WILL BE OVERRUN WITH BAD NEW PLAYERS"
>valve makes quickplay only search official servers by default
>"NOOO NOW OUR COMMUNITY SERVERS WILL DIE FROM A LACK OF NEW PLAYERS"
Hysterical.
tf2 players moment
FYI I ran a server during the days of Quickplay. A very goofy, heavily modded server, but one that managed to adhere to the settings outlined in order to qualify for being queued into (at least during a Vanilla map). I never once expressed the 1st sentiment you listed, because we were all new once, people can learn, and it should be more about having fun together as a community.
A lot of people were introduced to my server through Quickplay and are still in contact all these years later. I shut the server down after a year and a half (Jun '12 - Oct. 13) due to stress, but attempted to start it up again in 2017. While there are many other reasons for this, the attendance was not what it used to be despite advertising it the exact same way and I can't help but think the move to strictly Valve servers for matchmaking is partially to blame.
Tbh I get it. The appeal of instantly joining into a full server where you don't have to wait around for people to join is too hard to pass up. You also know what you're getting immediately. I've thought about starting mine up with many many players moving towards community servers as an escape from the Bot crisis, & the demand for good ones going up, but with a focus on incentivizing those initial brave souls milling around at 1-3 players who play long enough to get it full. Things like 3x the amount of credits you get for custom "shop" items- Chat tags, MvM player models, cosmetics etc. Also the ability to toggle tf2 bots till players join, and alerting the player to maps that are better for lower player counts (climb maps, jump maps, co-op maps, boxing maps). If I could pause time I swear to everyone reading this we'd have one of the best community servers but ya know, job, life kinda takes precendence.
I guess my point in all this is to say many server owners suffered who were not complaining in any way about "bad players". The more the merrier to me.
I find the whole community server saga ironic and kinda funny how those toxic veteran players first bullied the new player then straight up lied to Valve, only for those action to cause community servers to wither away. All because those new player weren't joining their games.
it's so surreal to remember a time where valve cared about tf2
''cared''
@@Fatsaver i don't know man. maybe it's just me coping but the fact tf2 was not cancelled after 9 years of development hell and reworks and restarting development. maybe at one time. they did care...
or because valve at the time was a AA or indie developer before steam and the loot boxes blow up and made them care about nothing that is not with a B (billion dollars) back then. they could not afford the luxury of sitting on their a$$ all day and canceling things left and right.
@@CoolSs They stopped caring ever since End of the Line Update. That's when everyone noticed something was ''off''.
@@Fatsaver you are not lying. it was their attempt at encouraging cheap labor (aka community created updates) to run their own live service model for theme. even if i feel really sad for what happened at end of the line and i really sympathise for the one guy who been overworked to put Valve level update. the rumours of tf2 having "15" deves and Robin walker leaving tf2 for good in 2013 (one year before end of the line) is not coincident. Valve had dota dota csgo at that time.
also i think the failure of those community updates made valve do their own for a time. until the disaster known as MYM was rushed because of the Overwatch beta (2014) rushed or not. comp doesn't work or belong in tf2. tf2 is "organic 12v12 chaotic attack defense class based shooter". the jungle inferno update was valve last attempt at tf2. but just after it tf2 hit it lowest player numbers. you know why ? because they didn't bring back tf2 that they killed with MYM. WE NEED quick playback. casual mode was a mistake.
and this is coming from someone who joined tf2 in 2015. just before MYM (been following the game for years until i got pc to play it)
the thiung about tf2 is that it doesn't take itself seriously. you could argue that all the other valve games take themselves seriously (you don't see unicorn hats in half-life or left 4 dead) and tf2 is an outlier. i'm no exception to that way of thinking because i moved to csgo when all this was happening for a more "serious" gaming experience. so maybe valve doesn't see tf2 in the way it should be seen; they see it as another cash grab like csgo or dota. i would love to know what valve has thought about tf2 since the beginning; do they see it as the fun, quirky, doesn't-need-to-be-taken-seriously (but absolutely can be) hybrid movement shooter that it is or do they see it as a mod that they bought from the community to eventually turn into a serious cashgrab? i'm sure that at the beginning they thought the former; they DID create all the updates that made tf2 what it is, but i'm guessing capitalism corrupted them and they spent years turning tf2 into what it thrives on NOT being.
"Meet Your Match and it's consequences have been a disaster for the TF2 playerbase." - Heavy Kaczynski
I was looking for this comment lmao
Engineer: DAMMIT HEAVY WHY YOU BLEW MY COMPUTER SHOP
Unsbomver
eSports are a cancer in the gaming industry
The 2fortbomber
As someone that quit after MYM but started playing again recently and is having a blast, TF2 will truly never die. The community won't let it.
I think TF2 is mostly a victim of valve's company structure, which isn't well suited for supporting a game long term. This is unlikely to change, but I hope valve realizes how much life TF2 still has. The best outcome in my opinion would be for them to pass it on to a dedicated third party team.
Tbh... valves company structure isn't really good for anything, in general. Not good for the current TF2, not good for the theoretical future Portal 3, not good for prett much anything except DotA, CS, and the steam storefront.
Valve aren't really all that concerned about their games anymore tbh, steam brings in enough revenue as it is. I also highly doubt they'd let go of their egos enough to give TF2 to someone that would actually care for the game
why pass it to a third party team when the community itself is what keeps the game alive (summer and scream fortress 2023 brought in official modes from community ideas)
@@icecube9765that's, basically what's being suggested here. Rather than having the single Valve dev pick and choose what community stuff comes in, have it be a group of trusted community members, maybe including the dev, who both make and review content and balance suggestions to be put in.
@@lunalesombras1150 I wouldn't be so quick to trust, "Community Members," because it will be abused. Valve doesn't want cliques, or a, "Cool Kids Club," to call the shots with gameplay. As with all good intentions; it will only lead to Hell very fast.
V-script gamemodes is as best as they can get; not the norm of TF2 as a whole. You'd need Causal, Competitive, and MVM members; all these groups are rife with biases that have a chance to force their ideal default state of the game.
For example, the MVM Community Members will just remove Gas Passer Explode on Ignite, Infinite Refunds, and whatever else they don't find fun. This leads to an Hell where normal players have no say in the matter, whatsoever. Instead, you just gave a select few power that's going to be forced upon others.
Oh god, I remember pressing "Random" in Quickplay and jumping of joy when being put into a freak fortress server. Me and my brother had not figured out how the server browser worked until much much later. So getting this seemingly 1 in a million chance felt so nice.
Wonderful nostalgia
This has become one of the hardest videos to watch for me.
it took me 3 sittings to fully watch the video without feeling actual pain, the fact that TF2 could have remained such an amazing game if only VALVe didn't rush the MYM update because of the entire internet hyping for overwatch, and then dropping the game on life support after another update without fixing anything.
and now we just get the same boring updates with the same boring, saturated and not-fitting cosmetics and warpaints AND maps on the queue that doesn't feel like it should be on TF2, and it hurts me so much that it will remains like this forever.
YES the game is not dead, it's more alive than ever, but it hurts so much that it's in this state, and for me the TF2 i know it's dead.
shut up poopy head
True. The golden age has passed.
Even tho i started playing in 2020
I miss the server browser so much. Also worth noting that Valve servers not showing up in the browser effectively kills all niche gamemodes. Imagine being able to instantly hop into the most populated Mannpower, Pass time, Doomsday or Degroot Keep server if you love those gamemodes or just want to try them out. Instead you can either sit in the lobby for hours waiting to get put into one of these modes if you queue for them exclusively or you can get put in them once in a blue moon by chance if you add them to your list of other maps. What a travesty.
very true, I miss those days, the weird maps are all my faves so I really felt this
tho just on a positive note, if you keep those gamemodes in your casual selection, you will get them sometimes, and queuing for them exclusively doesn't always take as long as you'd think
Glad somebody said it! Ive been thinking the same thing where matchmaking basically killed all niche gamemodes because nobody wants to sit in a lobby for hours to be queued up for 2 measly matches whereas before you could just simply... join the server yourself. Even Payload Race is dead because of matchmaking.
What do you mean you "miss" it? It's there
@@ImGonnaFudgeThatFish Yeah with half its functionality removed. Can't join valve servers anymore.
I remember one of my first servers I got even joining the game was a 24 hour hellfire one, iirc, and I loved it, even if it obviously wasn't the besy
This update was truly a terrible mess, and I'm glad a lot have not experienced this mess of a time.
its bad that most didnt experience it because now people blindly hate on the miniscule comp playerbase while also using casual as a scapegoat whenever they see fit
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413Even though i didn't experience it myself (joined 2 months after the blue moon update, but only started investing time into the game a year later), I completely disagree with casual players that claim that the comp playerbase "ruined" TF2. The MyM update was entirely Valve's fault imo, since they not only rushed it in order to compete with Overwatch, but despite receiving plenty of feedback from competitive players during and after the competitive stress tests, Valve changed virtually nothing on top of that. They still clinged onto their "casual" perspective of the game when making the competitive mode despite it having supposed to be a COMPETITIVE competitive mode, not a casual competitive mode. Additionally, the graphics restrictions were the final nail in the coffin in terms of playability.
I began playing a few weeks after it came out lul
I wonder if the Valve employee Jill got the blame for this since he was the one who was part of the Beta testing.
@@terluj121True, but hey, we've entered a bit of a renaissance now, so let's see where this goes.
I think a lot of the increased player counts are not only due to the pandemic, but more specifically because Overwatch fell off a cliff in terms of enjoyability and reputation. A lot of long-time TF2 players, including myself, moved to OW in 2016 and after how horrific MYM was there wasn't ever really a reason to go back. If the mistakes here seem egregious, you could make a 4 hour video analyzing just how badly Blizzard failed Overwatch in every conceivable way. I know I definitely was a player that came back during that 2021-ish period of time. It was refreshing!
Great video, and really well put together. I'm glad this game did not die off completely.
Maybe the true fun was the adverticement Overwatch made for TF2 along the way....
shayved tee ve
This, and maybe because of #saveTF2 giving the game some much needed publicity.
frog
This didn't age well
Shoutout to everyone who played on the hungry hoovy community and trade server. I don’t know where you all are now but I hope you’re all doing well
I'm still playing this game
@TravisWhisson dude clocktown is incredible
I miss the golden era of TF2.
Everyone does
Even though I was late to play, I agree with you guys
@@mcewenzach79tf2I do to
@@mcewenzach79tf2it’s okay everyone’s allowed to miss it
Same man…
Ah, yes, the update that made me QUIT the game, infamous MYM. How could I forget it.
For real, I LEFT TF2 for Overwatch wholeheartedly back then. The only time that I willingly uninstalled TF2.
(I came back few months later when Valve cleaned up casual, due to how fast OW community became toxic because of comp, though)
It's honestly mind blowing how TF2 survived it and started to flourish in the aftermath. Maybe, sometimes, trying to follow the hot trend like going competitive isn't an answer.
Anyway, thank you so much for reminding me of it. Salute to your persistent of digital-mining those reference videos, too! Made me real nostalgic ngl
What do you think of overwatch 2?
The problem wasn't TF2 appealing to competitive play, the problem was with how they executed it. They should've kept quickplay and just added a skill based or rank based matchmaking system for ranked play with a few weapon bans and class limits.
my god you are genuinely on of the best people in the community like your content is awesome keep it up
I love positive comments like these :)
there have been people who have gotten hooked on the most addictive drugs known to humanity and still managed to overcome their addiction before a TF2 player truly stopped playing.
IT DID DIE. The soul part. MYM did and irreparable damage to how tf2 play fundamentally and killed the micro community that build up when you keep playing on the same server for 3h. With many many other things.
it's not dead IMO but i think we would have been better without it
You really hit the nail on the head on how bad MYM devastated TF2 community and led Valve to abandon the game. TF2 is the kind of game you can goof off and have fun any which way you want depending on what type of player you are and Valve almost completely destroyed that with Competitive and Causal matchmaking (and poor UI design :P). Casual is okay now but it is extremely painful when you keep getting matched with bots, especially now with Scream Fortress XV. I still try to play on community servers that aren't 24/7 2fort or dustbowl classwars whenever I can.
TF2 should of never been a competitive game to begin with. I mean the game doesn't even take itself seriously. Not EVERY game should be competitive and I blame that community for ruining the game.
@@Labyrinth6000The update being a disaster was entirely Valve's fault, if Valve would've actually listened to the competitive community and changed things from the betas, we wouldn't be here complaining about it right now.
@@Labyrinth6000you dont take the game seriously because youre bad at it lmao
the game is inherently full of insane depth since its the leftovers from the days of quake, with added mechanics that you dont see anywhere else
if tf2 was completely unable to have a competitive scene, one wouldnt pop up literally a month after release
youre only complaining because you cant accept that the big bad comp is something you made up
Deluded compers in this thread. If tf2 comp were to succeed, it would. Turns out 6v6 is boring to watch and not tf2 at all. Who would've thought. Guess Valve was right.
@@kabletar1332 And yet they abandoned their mostly casual audience. Ironic.
Fun EFT2L fact: from 2007-2008 the class limit on Demomen was TWO!! (2) LOL
I've been playing since a month before the Scout update. You hit the nail on the head here. I don't need new weapons, new maps, or new hats. As much as I'd like them, I don't even *need* good balance changes, or bug fixes. I just need to join a server, and have a good time. And the easier that is for everyone, the better the game will do.
The bugs are half the fun
If I could ask for a single balance change on a single weapon, I'd ask for the damage vulnerability on the buffalo steak sandvich to be inverted into a damage resistance. I just can't fathom why a weapon that restricts you into melee, would make you MORE vulnerable to damage.
Depends on the bug in question, but generally, yeah.
@@LucyTheBox high risk high reward. its downside shouldn't be damage vulnerability however... it should be any of the following:
A: doesnt heal at all
B: takes longer to recharge or has to be earned via damage
C: reduces max health or blocks overheal/uber
@@Robb1977 How is being restricted to melee not risk enough?
I'm glad you're here and putting to words, exactly the sort of series of missteps that caused TF2 to fall from grace. I've often had this conversation with people and it's exhausting because it was a series of decisions and not so much one singular event, so I'm glad that I have a single video I can point to that lays out everything so well. Though I'm baffled at your endorsement of the spy speed buff which was probably the second-worst change made to the game after the Meat Your Match update. But I have to comment on this here at 53:42 .
The idea that matchmaking "regularly surpassed 15 minutes" is an incredible understatement. Matchmaking at this time regularly hit more than /2 hours/. I'm a North America player, East coast for anyone wanting context and thinking this is about an unpopulated region. When the update launched I would not be able to find a game /for hours/ before I gave up trying. I watched movies on my TV while idly checking to see if it had connected me to a match yet. The day I was able to watch LOTR: Return of the King and the matchmaker still hadn't connected me to a match, I gave up and uninstalled. I didn't want to use the matchmaker at all, but as you so rightly pointed out, Valve choked the life out of the community servers that kept the game alive up until that point in time. I felt I really had no choice but to leave the game, as it was quite literally unplayable.
Imagine being an old school TF2 player, spent years casually going from server to server, able to avoid obvious cheaters with ease, to being forced into a match where you knew if you left you wouldn't be able to get another match that day. That's what really killed it for me. Meat Your Match, amongst many other horrors, basically forced you to stay in a match with cheaters because it was unlikely you'd be able to get into another match that day. So it's either play with cheaters and/or bots, or don't play at all. Or, exactly as you put it at 1:15:30 . Couldn't spectate sus players to make a better determination if they were cheating, couldn't switch teams after an autobalance and teams got even again so you could go back to playing with your friends (autobalance back then wasn't so big of a problem because you could switch back after teams balanced out again, so autobalance was an inconvenience at best and didn't ruin matches back then). The match was ruined and there was nothing you could do about it except suffer for even longer because the alternative was another attempt at matchmaking which would take hours. What a godawful update.
I honestly don't know how the game survived for the weeks where people could literally not play it. But I suppose there's something to be said for player loyalty.
1:06:20 worth noting that this feature still doesn't work most of the time. As someone who still gets dragged into playing, my friend can in be in a server that is half-empty for over five minutes and the game still won't let me join. Out of dozens of times we tried to connect to one-another to start playing immediately, this has only worked twice to get me into a match with a friend. We've given up on it as a feature and instead of us joining into each other's games, we just immediately quit our match and re-queue so we can actually start playing together.
I will never forgive Valve for doubling down on matchmaking. It is, and was, the biggest mistake they ever made.
Never forget what they've taken from you.
I don't know, now, I wasn't around for the times before quickplay and their "matchmaking" but the idea of having to rely on community servers sounds like a pain. I'd rather consistency then luck and I vastly prefer this new system over even quickplay. I only really tolerate community servers now.
@@yipflaptheexecutioner6519 Well, you'd be wrong. Navigating the community server list was easy, especially if you were actually playing the game back then and could recognize the different types of servers. If you wanted a hardcore gaming experience, you went to the tryhard servers, if you wanted a more relaxed experience you hop into something running more vanilla options, and if you wanted to just fuck around with friends, you could pop into any of the Mario Kart/Wacky Racers/Blimp Racing servers and just have fun. It was an experienced catered to those who played the game, and considering the sheer amount of community servers finding one you wanted to play on was super simple and easy.
@@yipflaptheexecutioner6519Imagine being able to reliably join a default community server with very few modifications to the gameplay mode and a good general mix of player levels, and if you didn't like it or a hacker showed up you could just leave and join a different one in less than a minute.
That's what Valve servers were like, and what MYM took from us.
QP was basically just a way to quickly get into one without being picky about which one you would join.
@@yipflaptheexecutioner6519 you'd end up in the weirdest maps and custom gamemodes, it was the best
Glad to see people are finally recognizing how devastating the removal of quickplay to community servers and how matchmaking actually facilitated the rise of bots. Whenever I mention MyM and how bad it was people always seem to either have no negative opinion on it or deny it's awful repercussions. I see people are finally connecting the dots. The system really should be removed.
Yeah, I vaguely remember feeling alone in my opinion, so I just quietly left the game and only started looking back in the past year, thanks to TF2 youtube videos being pushed to me again.
We didn't know how good we had it until it was suddenly gone. One day TF2 will heal.
So you're saying. If we add back quickplay ? Bots will be gone ?
0k @@capofantasma97
@@capofantasma97They should've just kept TF2 community run imo. You didn't have to deal with cheaters back then. And even now in todays community servers, cheaters/aimbots won't target them because they're actively moderated.
lister is like if ricther overtime actually played the game
Aw cmon, I started playing back in 2009 and have 3k hours :( That's gotta count for something!
Ha
@@RichterOvertimeHey could you make a poorly informed video on tf2 again? One with a click bait title and misinformation for people to never be corrected on?
Thanks!!!❤🎉
Editing 2 days from posting:
@RichterOvertime basically made a video during the file leaks, which are dated before Jungle Inferno,
That TF2 was dead. The title was “Tf2 is officially dead” but he’s now changed it but the thumbnail has the text still written.
This got Moistcritical to react to his video live on stream and at the time I vaguely remember before the title change he had 300-400k views on the video already.
His whole video was based off the fact there’s nothing in these files that show any work being done on the game but it turns out it’s just an old file but his like to dislike ratio using extensions were extremely positive and commenters were all talking about the death of the game and future.
Really bad for a community ran game at this point.
He made one of the most popular tf2 videos if you include the reaction and attention it got from outside of the community and it’s huge view count from essentially bullshitting about something he hardly knew about and produced in a rush and never clarified till the summer update was announced
Imo, it was all just negative bullshit that didn’t need to be so clickbaity. It gave TF2 really negative press and many people I doubt from Moistcriticals stream will know about tf2 summer update announcement and how valve is slowly warming up to tf2.
The game already has a poor retention of players due to cheaters and communication restrictions he didn’t need to make this poor video to worsen the situation.
This is the video I’m talking about:
ruclips.net/video/8un3dBLVSCw/видео.htmlfeature=shared
@@RichterOvertimeNo Richter. It’s Over.
@@TheRealDismantler IT'S OVER
The bit at the end about TF2 being the last bastion of old-school multiplayer gaming is absolutely true. I began playing TF2 in late 2021 after getting a laptop for Christmas to use for college the next year, I decided to give TF2 a shot. I had been interested in TF2 because I'd heard about it in passing and also I had watched LazyPurple's "How It FEELS" series, but no other reason other then that. But after I played it, even being a stupid fresh-install who maybe got 1 kill a game if I was lucky, I was completely and totally hooked. TF2 (the game itself, not Valve) respects it's players. While it has all those microtransactions, they're all totally optional, and while they _are_ a bit predatory, I think MTX are always going to be a bit predatory no matter what. And the community, while it has many, MANY blemishes, I love it. The memes, the inside jokes, the RUclips content, all of it- It's what keeps this game going. Without this community, it would have died.
I've long given up any hopes of a new major update. I really wish Valve would do something new already, and I suppose it hasn't been long enough to tell yet, but if Summer 2023 doesn't get Valve back to making content for TF2 I truly don't think anything else will. But Summer 2023 also proved that that's OK. The maps added in Summer 2023 were all bangers, even if some like Venice weren't amazing, maps like Selbyian and the VSH maps are awesome, and despite its problems I'm glad Valve seems OK with adding more community-made gamemodes like we saw with Zombie Infection in Scream Fortress XV.
TF2 is the single most resilient game I have ever seen, and after everything that's happened and continues to happen with it, I truly believe TF2 will be around for many many more years to come. The community refuses to go down without a fight.
go play l4d2 or old cs games, thats the true last bastion of old multiplayer
Wait for millenials and gen z to hit nursing home age, once we all retire that shit gon see a spike, and am for one all for boomer fortress 2
Cringe post-covid reddit zoomer, people like you ruined the game
I love that you put in a lot of effort into explaining and exploring Valve’s thought process on all of these changes, but when it comes to Turbine staying in the comp maps, you’re just like “ok guys, wtf?”
fun fact: casual matchmaking actually has a mmr/elo system, but its so bad that its been practically non functional for several years
my elo is still only in the 1300s
Valve should do either 2 things: Remove casual and bring back quickplay or add an actual functioning elo system that matches you with people of roughly the same skill/experience. Without this, casual is basically just a worse, much slower version of Quickplay with more restrictions.
I still maintain the position that this is one of, if not the worst, updates a game has ever received.
I've experienced terrible updates in other games but nothing comes close to this
Not even close to WC3 reforged update. OW2 and CS2 are also strong competitors.
@@gackybasscs2 is nowhere near as bad as ow2 or mym
if you want a real terrible cs update, mention the release of csgo or the global economy update for css, with 10 dollar m249s
Nah it's a positive change overall. Given back in the day f2ps were basically segregated anyway this ended it in a way that made sense. Also, community servers were way too hit or miss, valve servers have always been the ideal way to play
@@Jiub_SN The biggest problem with casual for me is the fundamental way that it works. I would always connect to Valve servers via server browser or join my friends via adhoc. If one of us got autobalanced we could at least goof around and wait for a slot on the other team to open up again and rejoin it. Now that's a re-queue. If a Valve server was bad it was also easier to find a new one then it is now via server browser. I don't like waiting on a queue. I like actively searching for a game and picking where that server is located. Too often I get thrown in an LA or Washington server where I have pretty poor connection (and hitscan hitreg on LA Valve servers has always been weird even during the quickplay era but at least then I could avoid them). I would just play on community servers, but there aren't too many options for just the normal game anymore and I'd rather not go to 24/7 2fort.
You know that feeling when your nose is stuffed but then gets clear and you can breathe well once again? Damn, this video has really clear a lot of things to me, or at least a very good summary.
I started playing TF2 back in 2010 and never really stopped. With that perspective in mind, this is among the best recounts of these events I’ve seen. I often see the old heads blame the Uber update for the game’s decline while jungle inferno newcomers blame bots for it and it’s honestly a series of unfortunate events which led us here. I do regularly think back to the events of ~2016 and how the air was electric with anticipation in the community. With things like the global whitelist, competitive letters, and even casual RUclipsrs hyping the release of MYM it felt like all hands were on deck and that something amazing was about to happen, a golden age was on the way. Sadly, the crushing arrival of MYM really scarred the player base. In hindsight, MYM was likely my single largest let down in gaming simply because I’m still playing TF2 today and feeling it’s effects (or lack-thereof).
As someone who played TF2 Back in June 2008 thanks to the Orange Box I got as a birthday present, All I can say to those who first played the game after Jungle Inferno is that I SERIOUSLY feel sorry for you! You missed out on the GOLDEN AGE when Valve put SO MUCH dedication to TF2! So many updates, comic lore, merchandise, and other games on Steam wanted to promote their content in the form of TF2 weapons and cosmetics and the game was at the top of the world.
Playing TF2 after Jungle Inferno for the first time is best described as going to a friends party after hearing how amazing and wild it is and by the time you showed up, the party was over hours ago and the only people left are a handful of passed out people, trash everywhere, and the house being a mess where YOU have to make the best of it. It is a never ending purgatory until Valve does something about it and the best this year is the new official VSH and ZI modes and the 100 man servers.
Ok seriously im not reading all that
Edit: Ok i did read all that
The 100 man servers are amazing as well.
@@yellowball1948 A greater redemption arc than Valve could ever have pulled off.
I started playing tf2 in about 2018 I think and I can't lie, I've still had a blast playing the game as I followed tf2 RUclipsrs back in the day and the first time I heard about the game was from Muselk and really enjoyed watching his videos. I know many people think the game is just not the same, but in my eyes I still see it as a very fun game with new ways to play over time.
And ZI is a trash fire, so the bar is extremely low
I have had a vendetta against the concept of matchmaking since it (mostly) ruined this game, and god damn do I appreciate this video, especially the point that the outdated level of player freedom that tf2 still provides is exactly the thing that has kept it alive, it blows my mind how many modern games don't even let you pick what map you want to play on
casual games are so awful compared to what it was like playing on a valve server. back then people would stay on the server between maps, but now in casual it takes so long between the end of a match, to map switching, to pre-game (which is a thing now for some reason?), to the next map actually starting that everyone leaves games the second they finish to re-queue. Meaning that you never can just sit on a valve server for an hour, getting to know the people on it and making friends
haven't even mentioned the removal of joining friends via ad-hoc connections on steam, in casual now you can only play with up to 5 friends whereas before you could all join the same valve server and just make it basically your own for a few hours
Honestly, probably the biggest issue I have with Auto-balance is that it happens at some of the worst times. I can understand if the game is halfway done and they need to balance the teams, but it really sucks when I'm switched teams right before I'm about to win. Perhaps they could do some tweaking so that if one team is on the verge of winning the auto balance won't occur until the start of the next round.
A fantastic, fantastic video. I truly believe you're one of the best tf2 content creators on this entire platform. This is by far one of the best, nuanced takes I've seen on the history of the game and why it's in its current state, and as someone who only joined well after jungle inferno it's suddenly starkly apparent what happened.
its really funny that valve included turbine three separate times in comp, why do they love that map so much? lol
very simple ctf map so they think itll play well and be balanced
The TF2 devs are ancient 90s gamers, CTF was the best gamemode in TF1, thus they believe it's the best in TF2 as well. To be fair though, 2fort is statistically the most popular map in casual!
I think competitive was a hot potato they kept passing to each other without giving much detail so that they would not pass it to someone else right after
They didn't like the stale meta, so adding ctf seems like an attempt to create more variety and turbine is the least shitty ctf map
Been playing tf2 for 13 years now, no update got me closer to quitting permanently, the death of the valve servers was awful, no switching teams, no joining from the browser, endless queues to join a friend's game that was in progress.. also the SLOW BUGGY death of the Join Game button through steam for some reason (?), i dont even think its possible any more, if im playing a community server I just have to send the ip and explain to my friends how to use that.. sigh, i wish we could just UNDO casual and bring it back to post 2014 quickplay
"Fuck f2ps! Get em out of our servers! >:("
"ok"
"wait no come back ; ;"
I like how they did 11 major stress tests to do nothing but fix lobby bugs from them reusing the mvm lobby
I connected with some of my greatest friends by finding them in the pre-MyM 5CP Valve servers. We would stay in servers for sometimes hours, following the servers through many map changes and many time extensions. Sometimes we'd hunt each other down on opposite teams with Cabers and taunt after killing, sometimes we'd encourage the entire team to do class wars, most of the time we'd just mess around in a Steam or Mumble call and trash talk each other through the many team scrambles. Eventually we formed our own comp TF2 teams, and even though it's been years since we last loaded into a comp setting together, we still rock out in the same Discord and always have a conversation flowing throughout the day.
I remember the day MyM dropped, we did a 6 stack that ended up in Powerhouse and got pretty bored of the experience and wanted to throw gamers on opposite teams to keep games from being back-to-back rolls. Imagine our surprise when not only could we not switch teams, but we couldn't drop into Valve servers like before. Gone forever because, and I totally agree with lister on this, Valve was chasing Overwatch clout and didn't have any confidence in the **9 years** of precedent the game already had.
What kills me the most is the promise of a Heavy update and the continuous teasing Valve makes that they're aware of TF2's base existence, but have repeatedly proven unwilling or incapable to do anything. Whether it be the Rick May memorials, the official Twitter account acknowledging #saveTF2, Gabe Newell saying there was a bot response in the pipeline (spoiler: there wasn't), or the fiasco when the official TF2 blog wanting to create another major update for Summer 2023 before immediately backtracking to "update-sized update" and releasing another entirely community fueled Steam Workshop shlop. Valve refuses to say they're done for good on TF2, and I think that's almost entirely because it generates too much money for them, and any sign that the party's over would see a significant drop in revenue.
Me, and I think a lot of people, have only a few requests for Valve. Release the Heavy update, remove Casual Mode and restore the system that existed before MyM, and release the final blog post that ends with "we're done for good, signed the TF2 team." The dumb bastards who pushed Casual Mode and Competitive are either gone from the company or come to terms that it was a complete and abject failure by now, for sure. Right? Keep the stupid annual Steam Workshop-fueled updates if you want, push in-game notifications for tournaments and give out medals even, but you're done. Don't tease a Spy vs Engineer update in the works, full stop. Stop waving a potential major update, for the millions of active players to get hyped over, then completely get deflated on when months of radio silence follow for the twentieth time. LEFT 4 DEAD 2 HAS HAD MORE MAJOR UPDATES IN THE LAST 5 YEARS.
To me, what made TF2 so enduring was the entire franchise of software and content built into it.
GMOD pulls in custom models as well as allow content creators to create new ideas relatively easily.
Source Film Maker, while incredibly outdated, still enables new film makers to experiment on a well researched and tested piece of software.
TF2 pluggins and now Code enables a wide variety of games and other ideas to be made a reality, with the most popular one being VSH.
Finally, the community content creators who develop different communities to mess around in. For me, that means Uncle Dane for super serious, and Shoenic and Solarlight for goofing off.
Skial is awful to deal with.
my happiness lasted 157 days, the time in between valve opening official servers in Brazil and the release of Meet your Match
Gonna be frank. Comp as an overarching concept is a plague on games and I'm sick of every major multiplayer release being designed to be an organised competitive esport. Meet Your Match was TF2's biggest attempt at it. Comp players themselves froth and scream at even the slightest notion of something being balanced around casual play or simple fun instead of sweatfest world tournaments because how dare the devs not make everything revolve around their clearly superior ideas for balance. They need to stay in their corner and shut up so we can have a return to the lost era of wild west casual multiplayer.
yeah looking back, that big push for competitive and "e-sport" during the 2010s was not the best idea(s). Not only did the development teams cause rift with causal and competitive as most of the time it, the balance are annoying. it best for the competitive side to community run as when the developers, it not really good. It comes across as "no fun allowed".
speaking of the wild west era as if you were around back then lmao
as if cs wasnt competitive in the 2000s, or mobas werent a thing, or even team fortress classic, which was known as a fast paced comp game unlike any other
none of these started as competitive games, they became them. youre like nintendo, trying to kill the smash bros comp scene because it was meant to be a party game
>COMP PLAYERS ARE RUINING OUR FUN!
but how
>MUH CABER!!!!!!
valve did it, nuff said. blame valve, not the player
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413Comp players are ruining fun by expecting everything the devs do to revolve around them and them alone while considering the rest of the playerbase to be second-class citizens. They are absolutely deserving of the blame.
@@hyperdimensionblissexcept thats not what happened and youre making up phantoms to shake your fist at
if anything youre the one expecting valve to revolve around you lol
The ESports market is extremely saturated, just like Battle Royale and zombies were back then. It's just that it took people a lot longer to get sick of it, I have this feeling that the reason why so many people are playing for the first time or just coming back to TF2, it's because the game is a lot more casual and take itself less seriously. Nowadays, a new MP game feels like it was made by investors that don't even play games and just look at what is being a success around them, Valorant, Apex Legends all look the same as Overwatch, LoL and others, for example.
TF2 is disconnected from this market and people saw it as fresh air. Out of all competitive games from the 2010's, the only one I can see it's still relevant is CS:GO (CS:2 is just CS:GO in the Source 2 engine).
I still have this conspiracy theory that when valve was working ""with """ the competitive community. I was joining the comp comm right in the end of 2015 and everybody was hyped to talk to valve for a "Comp update" and my conspiracy was that valve let players balance weapons while valve was adjusting the matchmaking. And I remember a comment there saying "this will be our update" just like invasion or end of the line. And some others forcing matchmaking on "pubs"
When the updated launch I straight up quit tf2 until they patched the long wait times for a match, the stopwatch, and the forced "not being able to join mid match"
It felt like everybody on board jumped off when their solutions didn't work, valve included.
To me, that was the day tf2 killed their own flare. My favorite community lists not only became 0/24 but made them go offline.
I... just play tf2 from time to time from that day.
But anyways. Great video!!!!
i remember quickplay, it was such a better system, it takes me like 5-10 minutes to join a server that I know has a lot of people, like the perks map or the zombie survival one. It's so annoying
Nobody ever claims that quickplay was perfect, but it certainly was objectively better in every concievable way than Casual MMS.
MYM is literally why there is a botting crisis because the party system and forced automated matchmaking in servers that very frequently change their map usually to the same one that it was just on is the most ideal conditions for bot hosters to fuck everything up
I have no idea where this 'quickplay was bad' comes from. I've never seen anyone complain about it since they changed it to connect to Valve servers only. One click, 10-20 sec later you are already playing. No need for any matchmaking that takes minutes to find you a server.
Thank you for making this.
TF2 was one of the first games I ever played on PC, over ten years ago. I joined about a year after the game went F2P. I have so many fond memories of various iterations of trade_minecraft and mariokart, of pubbing with my friends after school, of taunt kills, painted gibuses, silly sprays and conga lines.
Over ten years later, in no small part due to my frustration with Valve’s mistreatment of this game and my want to do better, I have become a game designer and a Master’s level game scholar. Every now and then I’ll bring up TF2 in front of new students, starry-eyed and eager to share their own interests, and after inevitably clarifying that I’m not talking about Titanfall I heave a big sigh and tell them this very tale. It’s cathartic to look back and remember that I wasn’t the only one who saw the writing on the wall. Hopefully things continue to get better.
Knowing how many bots there are in TF2 makes the player count celebration in this video come off as horribly misinformed.
It actually hurts to watch.
I know, bro. It's just the Skibidiest thing.
@@JuanPiece.shut up
Tf2 never should have been a competitive game
The stickyjumper was apparently nerfed because normally you can only stickyjump with two stickies or you die
What a stupid reason to nerf that gun, especially since it's not exactly unthinkable to jump with more than two stickies without dying anyway. Like, the Uber is right there.
@@arandomlostsoul753yeah but practically teleporting with 8 stickies is super jank, and the 2 stickies nerf doesnt make the weapon any worse
1:12:40 Yeah, about that...
Bots everywhere.
MYM sounds similar to meme, which means valve made that update as a joke
I still can't get over my own "golden era" in TF2, 2012-2014, especially around the Love and War update. I had a couple servers I would frequent, one that was vanilla KOTH 24/7 and another that was also vanilla maps but had some really crazy and zany plugins. The people I met there and the laughs I had really do still echo through my mind whenever somebody asks me "What's your favorite game?" and really it was never the mechanics that made me love TF2 so much but like many other people it was the social aspect of the game. It's so sad that there's very few other experiences like it, especially in modern gaming. Cool video dude.
All of the unfettered hate that TF2 community gives to Overwatch is now 100% justified.
Always was.
ITS OVERWATCHS FAULT THAT VALVE MADE A TERRIBLE UPDATE!!!!!!!!
Yeah, the comptards pressuring valve has NOTHING to do with it
6:46 I’ve literally stumbled apon that exact server when I was playing TF2 on The Orange Box ages ago
As someone who started playing tf2 somewhere around 2021 and is still learning many playstyles and unlocks. It's really interesting to hear about the better (and uh worse) days this game I love has seen.
I started playing in 2009 and this game's definitely been through its ups and downs. I don't play it as often now but I always come back for at least a little while.
Dude, absolutely magnificent video. TF2 has always been my favorite game since 2014 and there are so many things in this vid that I had no idea were a part of TF2. I took a year long break from the game when the botpocolypse occurred and slowly got back into it and I am very happy that the community is still trying to keep the ship afloat. The halloween maps this year like crasher and sanitarium have been so much fun. Also the ever classic Carnival of Carnage.
Your TF2 history videos are always so well-made and I respect the amount of effort that goes into the research and editing!
When it comes to the differences between the Quickplay and Matchmaking systems, I personally don't believe that it's as black and white as a lot of people like to say it is. They both have/had some pretty detrimental flaws that Valve refuses/refused to address. I think players like to look back on Quickplay with rose-colored-glasses because it's easier to point out issues with the current system while being nostalgic for the old ways. I personally prefer the *idea* of a matchmaking system more than Quickplay, but unfortunately Valve's apathy towards TF2 (which by the way, saying that Meet Your Match is a direct result of that apathy is pure speculation) has caused the system's inherent issues to be multiplied (mainly the cheater stacks/bots).
I don't believe that TF2 (almost) died in Summer 2016 but I do believe that the addition of Matchmaking is unrealistically remembered as a historic downturn, despite the fact that the game has only flourished and continued to grow since. And keep in mind I say this as someone who has created and continues to maintain community servers as an alternative to Casual Mode. I don't think there is a right way and a wrong way. We can have the best of both worlds, and I think that's a big factor for TF2's everlasting success.
bro what are you talking about flourish lmao the game is already dead and a safehaven for cheaters
cant wait to see you complaining about bots in the obligatory scream fortress video doe
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 People have been calling TF2 a dead game since like 2010. Maybe it will finally stick after a decade of saying it.
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413The horde is comming
@@UncleDaneit has already stuck, the quality of the game is overall worse, the playerbase has only gotten more annoying, and the game feels like a rotting husk being powered by hopes, dreams, and a little bit of autism
the shell of the game is dead and broken, the reason why people play it, is because the core is almost intact
but all in all, everything has gone down the shitter, bot hosters are still laughing at us and the only future the game has is new maps and modes being added by novice modders
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 As EU player that was constantly put on US servers a few days because reasons(?), all I can say that US servers are completely rotten. On just 2 maps, bots after bots, cheaters after cheaters. After doing almost all Halloween contracts on UE servers, I managed to see twice a bot spamming YT link in its name by joining and leaving the server, and one time a stack of 4 bots on enemy team. How US players can play Casual in this state is beyond me.
As someone who missed the golden age, of tf2 by literally 5 years. This video is amazing, and helps me understand why this update was so hated. Amazing video
At least Valve has accuratedly recreated the match making experience. Wasting. Your. Time. 5 cancels, 10 dodged just to get placed into a match with an AFK and 3 account buyers.
Your videos are genuinely a blessing to the TF2 community. I hope this gets more people to realize that comp players have never been the problem.
One major issue with the MYM update and removal of QP that gets overlooked, even in this video, is that even when QP was added you could still manually bring up and join Valve servers on the server list and join them immediately.
This meant that even if you were running into bot issues or any other issues on whatever server you joined, you could still easily go somewhere else and continue to play.
With MYM, all Valve servers were then utilized to exclusively playing Casual or Competitive matches, which meant you were stuck on whatever server you found with no reliable backup.
This also *helps* bots become more effective, because the matchmaking algorithm will regularly favor certain servers, and regularly put you right back into the same match with the same bots that you just left.
And, like this video did go over, the tools to fight the bots were also significantly gimped.
I don't think anyone looking at the future of TF2 realized this would be the consequence - there was an unspoken belief that Valve would invest in new servers for the competitive scene and that the old Valve servers would still be around.
And I think that's what really killed the game for a lot of people - because at least if Valve servers were still around then it wouldn't matter that comp and casual had a bot plague, you could still enjoy the game elsewhere.
Now I don't even bother using the match making system at all. I just go straight to the community servers to play.
I seriously wish Valve reverted the meet your match changes honestly. Being able to just get on a server with the map you wanted, the amount of player you wanted and on the team you wanted was great.
Honestly, even if the launch of MyM went smoother and Valve's comp more were more in line with community standards, the lack of something like CSGO's Overwatch system would've been a serious threat to any longevity the mode could have.
What would be the point of trying to grind through the ranks when squads of cheaters could just queue together and run wild with virtually no recourse for legitimate players other than hoping Valve would do manual banning sprees?
I discovered tf2 in mid 2020, and it is weird to imagine the game was once so different. I never experienced big events made by Valve, and never logged on a community server other than jump academy. I can still say I enjoyed my pub time with 300 hours, and a lot of bad spy main frustration too, but I wish I could play and enjoy the quick play experience, which I didn't even know had once existed before today.
I wish they could revert those changes so you could experience it. This game used to feel so fresh, free and enjoyable before those changes. Today's TF2 feels very DIFFERENT from old TF2.
Yo, what’s the server ip for that jump academy
@@fallingbrick9514 dunno, it has been a while since I last played tf2, but I believe I just wrote "jump academy" on the server browser, and joined closest one from where I live
Its so sad that a _youtuber_ managed to make an incredibly popular server just by adding a class limit and removing random crits.
It hurts to think what competitive would have been if valve had just listened to the community
tfw uncletopia is more competitive than valves competitive
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 yeah and it has _dustbowl_
Doesnt valve comp remove random crits?
@@icewelder8117 it does, but that _alone_ isn't enough
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 i feel like uncletopia should have its own division we have nc am im main adv and inv now we have ut nc am im main adv inv
You are right about one thing. Meet your match didn't just almost kill TF2, it did kill TF2. It's was obvious from the start that the player counts was inflated with bots, but I was at first hopeful that maybe at least 50% of the players are actual humans. Heh, not even close. For the july summer update last year, less than 10% of the tf2 playerbase were actually humans all along and on average, about 80% of the steam player-base is just bots
Not to be that guy but valve servers were already in service prior to the uber update. They just became more popular and the only servers used by quick play around then. (Quickplay used to pull from both community and official servers prior to that.) The real loss for them was when they converted the official servers to the casual servers and no longer allowed direct connection to them through the server browser.
Sadly we now know that the high player count since 2020 really does stem from bots
Meet your match still ruins the game to this day.
Imagine the timeline if valve kept quickplay but made comp its own seperate mode and adheared to what the comp players wanted, the game coudve thrived as well as having a fun comp mode/scene
Game would legit be having over 50k peak players every day if we had that, maybe even more. I can't understand what stupid juice valve was drinking when making meet your match. It's one of the most retarded handlings of any update of a game I have ever seen. It's honestly sort of impressive just how bad they dropped the ball.
Thanks for covering the f2p change and how annoying older players found it. Ive just recently gotten back into tf2 casually but it seems like alot of tf2 youtubers dont really cover this part in detail when almost everyone i knew quit and was the day tf2 died for us.
I'm sure the reason most RUclipsrs don't bring it up because very few of them actually played before the Uber Update, but it was cool hearing a new side of the story. I've always heard the Uber Update held as one of the best updates in TF2, and one of the most important, and while I think it is true without the Uber Update and making the game F2P was integral to the game surviving as long as it has, I think it's important we keep in mind what the players of the time thought
Yeah, i tried to return in summer update and the game isn't what i played before, i didnt even found casual experience it was before, where you can just hangout and play, and not getting kicked because you didn't do the objective. Maybe i became too old for this or demographics had changed.
@@DemodiX I get what you're saying, though I've never heard of anyone getting kicked for not doing the objective, at least not for several years. There are community servers that are just hangouts but personally I don't really like that, I'll do it in some instances but I get really bored quickly because every time I've tried to be social I've ended up miserable.
Dude's even using Chiptunes from back in that time too... How awesome. That gave me goosebumps 3:00
2:32 my mom got cancer in 2007. She is still recovering from that day.
sorry to hear man
@@TuMadre8000 I was six years old when she got that.
So, fun fact, I started playing tf2 around the time of Jungle Inferno's release (over 6 years ago at this point...), so pretty much all of this was a history lesson to me. I was always confused when people complained about casual, because it seemed fine to me?? But Ig I understand now why it made some people quit the game.
Overall, it's hard for me to imagine this game being so fundimentally different, because to me it's always been the exact same. (The only thing that I took major notice of is when I lost the ability to talk in chat, because who cares about F2Ps, amirite?) I kinda can't even conceptualize this game getting a major update with, like, completely new weapons and real balance changes. The game has been more or less the way it is since I was 14, and I'm currently 21.
I wish they supported server browser more and encouraged people to use it. Nowadays people get scared at a ton of text on their screen and don't bother to use it because it looks old or is "too complicated". People getting used to modern matchmaking and it's limitations is just sad.
I first opened the game on October 5th, 2015; the day before the Invasion community update. I didn't start really playing the game until AFTER Meet Your Match.
To know that I was only into the game after the good times were over... stings on a level that can't be described.
This video is somewhat deceitful. Server browser never went anywhere and community servers were there for you. Yeah sometimes you queued for couple of minutes to get into your favourite one but that's something everyone was used to. What changed for sure is that deluded pub stompers wanting comp no longer had a stream of fresh meat to dominate over and over. Enjoy trying breaking out of spawn on dustbowl as attacking side when all the pub stomp andies group up.
I can relate to this comment so bad because I had a similar experience only that I started playing on April 21th of the same year and only started to play the game daily after MYM hurts so bad.
@@kabletar1332seething because people know how to play a game that has been out for a century
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 take your pills, you're seeing things
That fucking shibby2142 opening was an incredible unexpacted slap of nostalgia holy.
Some quick thoughts (will probably leave something more detailed later as I get through the video):
I joined into TF2 as a more casual F2P player initially in the early 2010s in high school but I got used to the game pretty quick and had a lot of fun just downing several rounds at a time or just doing random stuff on community servers (especially Degroot Keep or just messing around on trading maps).
But when matchmaking was set up everywhere on the main servers with MYM, I just left the game for the most part. All of the easy fun of just being able to hop into a game instantly and go round after round was gone. I hated having to wait constantly for just one match, and then wait for who knows how long for another.
Meet Your Match really left a bad taste for TF2 that I still haven’t gotten over. There’s plenty of those issues you noted for both casual and competitive players, but the inability to down multiple rounds at once without waiting was a no-go. Looking back, the removal of Quickplay, as flawed as it is, really just killed it for me sadly.
(At the very least though, the various SFM and GMOD videos really help carry on the spirit and fun of the TF2 world.)
At 6:46 is footage from the PS3 version, honestly it's impressive you could even pull that off in it.
I'm still only about halfway through the video but it's so incredibly thorough and well-edited that I felt the need to comment. Great work!
this video killed all of my hope for a major update
I strated playing this game in 2016. my computer died and this why I could play seriously only in 2017
and exactly in 2017 the updates just stoped
I started playing tf2 around 2018-2019, a bit after Valve wasn't pushing out many updates for tf2. I thought casual was fine because I had only heard of bits and pieces of information about "pubs". This video opened my eyes at how bad Valve had actually handled the competitive situation. Additionally I had no idea that the botting issue reached as far back as 2016. Funnily enough, in the "aftermath" of the bot crisis, I find myself quickloading a community Skial server because its easier and faster to load up casual with a fraction of the people playing. Excellent video!
Woah! Sat down to watch a good TF2 breakdown and ended up seeing my own vid used as b-roll! Trippy!
It's crazy to think that despite joining this community rather late around 2012 I was there for it all back when I used to browse the reddit in high school, I don't play TF2 as much as I used to, but it's definitely still a game that will always hold a special place in my heart.
Great video.
2:38 "Kenet & Rez - Unreal Super Hero 3" what a legend for choosing this music. anyone younger than tf2 don't know what it mean.
Hearing FearofDark music in the background almost gave me whiplash. Awesome music choice. Great video as always!
Lister tour videos help me sleep at night and calm me on my long drives to work. Thanks for sharing your lovely soothing voice and niche information with us ❤
I was expecting a video just about Meet Your Match, but this is probably the best history recap of this game I've seen. Great Job!
I've been playing since August 2017 and i guess this makes sense
Years of hearing complaints and accusation from both sides of the argument and finally something that eloquently untangles this mess of opinions and events
It always fascinated me how this game lives in a constant paradox where its problems, new and old, also reinforce just how great this game is, and it shows: people still make content related to it, the reputation it gained over time and just the sheer amount of players, and it's incredible how this game is really the last great bastion of a game philosopy long gone(although general opinion on esport and competitive focus is slowly changing).
I may have missed the golden age, but i was still able to enjoy an experience now almost nonexistant(i'd say Minecraft still has dedicated servers tho), and i'm glad i did
As for Valve now, what pains me the most is that i think Blue Moon-sized updates would honestly be fine, but it's kept alive by just one guy that i guess doesn't even have much of a connection with this game(the content of recent updates is mostly not great) and i really don't have that much hope left
I truly wish for a reinassance to happen, but until then all i can say is great video, thank you for your job
47:05 *PTSD Flashbacks to the ‘Fixing’ of the Bison.*
i was one of those dirty F2Ps that began playing the game for the first time in June 2012. i remember having a small group of irl friends with whom a highlander team that never took off was formed in that era. i very vividly remember that from 2013 on my home server was often the now defunct 24/7 Alzephur Surf, a place that would have never been allowed in the old quickplay rotation and i would have never found if old friends at the time didn't lead me to it. the only reason i stopped playing the game in very early 2015 was that i became homeless, and essentially stayed that way for 5 years. kind of hard to keep playing when you don't even have a place to have a computer.
when i became housed again and began playing the game regularly again in spring-summer 2021, i remember being quite overwhelmed at how much everything had transformed about the game. this was in the deep heat of the bot crisis, when it seemed like only casual payload was the sole safe haven (sometime) of casual. watching this, its pretty clear that i was absent for some Pretty Fucked Up Shit. i doubt that i would even be here today if i was playing the game in 2016. what a painful year that appears to have been. i will say this, partially because i think it would get some pretty funny comments: the big secret reason why valve comp matchmaking/meet your match was so heavily bungled? 🎉Capitalism🎉
why did I return when i did? the humor. nothing on earth in the world of gaming makes me laugh like TF2 does. no first person shooter for that matter; this remains the only first person shooter i dedicate myself to playing Because of the humor. ive often called overwatch "TF2 if it was made by the Tiktok voice" because i have observed that it tries way too hard to inflexibly pander to The Hardcore Gamer Who Enjoys Colorful Visuals without investing even the smallest degree in the intricacies of its character (more funny comments ill probably get lol). You will never get the demoman walking up to people, calling them "a bloody sentry", pointing at them laughing and promptly collapsing dead in overwatch. overwatch is not a game you ever hear about people laughing at. TF2 survives because of that humor, and the way it can manifest multifacetedly. the a-posing. the endless funny ways people can die. the way 2fort has practically become a simulation of an insane asylum. the username and cosmetic roleplays. the comms and micspamming. the voicelines and what you can make happen with them. the surviving voice actors themselves, most now in their 70s, using people's love of the voice lines to endlessly bless them with homemade collaborative content. TF2 lifts my spirits and that in turn makes me feel good enough to invent time into playing it the way it was originally intended as well. I'm not The Best player, but i still immensely enjoy myself in a totally unique way, bots be damned. TF2 has so much going for it that in the grand scheme make the bots feel today like a minor obstacle. I want to stick with this game and keep making videos of this game until i become too senile to even do the conga taunt. Valve will one day pull the plug completely on the game, but you and i both know the community will keep the game running on their own for as long as we can, possibly even with valve's blessing. blizzard dumped overwatch 1 after not even a third of TF2's lifespan. TF2 is practically a small secret international treasure at this stage of its life, one of the great little jewels of our planet that alien life will discover and marvel at eons from now
That was so wholesome. Wow.
azelphur's combat surf was one of my favorite servers back in the day. always happy to see other people bring it up
This video sums up exactly how I feel about MyM and it's rushed/broken arrival. It's so damn sad how this update was the catalyst for the issues this game faces today. Wonderfully put together video. Can't believe I haven't found this channel sooner!
I think we can all agree that the reason competitive failed was because of map variety. I think to truly revitalize the game mode they should add ctf_turbine back for a fourth time and remove any other map
Despite everything, I think MYM’s casual is a better version of Quickplay. I’ve been playing since 2010, and Quickplay was QUICK, but I’ve had multiple days where I’ve loaded into countless dead servers, no one to PLAY with. Casual at least guarantees a few people every time you queue, now. Even at its best, Quickplay felt like it had a 70% chance of getting into an empty server.
I miss community servers so badly. I haven't played TF2 since Meet your Match, it's just not the same man.
tf2 classic has that feel, its niche but still alive
Then it's great time to come back. Community servers are still alive and well.
Yeah what the other dude said, try TF2 Classic. Its like a return to form of the 2008-2009 era of TF2 but with some new content (4 teams, VIP). Its my preferred way to play the game now.
Dudes act like the old game is gone when it's still there and thriving
@@Jiub_SN It's there, but it's a shell of it's former self. Like grandad in the retirement home.
It's genuinely extremely sad to know TF2 is on borrowed time. There is nothing quite like it, and very few multiplayer shooters that aren't Splatoon that are worth playing coming out anymore. Deadlock is looking to be a disaster, and so was Counter Strike 2, so Valve cannot even be trusted to touch TF2 again if they ever touch it again. Its sad to know that, some day, I won't be able to play it and there will probably not be any games that compare.