I just stumbled on to this channel , prior to a guitar build / funny how when the student is ready , the teacher will appear !!! awesome channel learned about Brite Tone here !!
I wish I had watched this video prior to my first adventure staining a body. Your videos on several topics have been so inspiring and helpful. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and being kind to those of us that are just getting started. P.S. we need a lion graphic t shirt!
Love the shirt! Great video breaking down the use of a sanding sealer. Wasn't entirely sure how they worked but I have no doubts now. I repair/restore furniture and have been struggling with a piece I am working on. Your video just solved my dilemma. Thanks for the great content 👍
Great information here! I recommend to anyone who wants to remember this write up a chart on a piece of paper and copy over the information from the video so you'll always have a quick, physical reference to it if needed.
Thanks for an informative video. I'm using StewMac products, and have been puzzling over the fact that the grain filler says "for best results first apply 1-2 coats of sanding sealer". On the sanding sealer it says "apply over grain filler to lock in grain filler and seal the wood." Nothing like contradictory product labels. Your scenarios pointed me in the right direction.
Thanks for all those explanations. I'm just getting into this and it can be quite confusing. This video is a good reference. I'm sure I will watch it several times...
No love for shellac? It dries very quickly without need for a curing process, and gives additional piece of mind in the sense that it is compatible with every type of finish imaginable. Plus, you can advertise your guitar as having an organic, free-range all natural sanding sealer. XD That aside, the SolarEZ Lacquer is great stuff. I even spray it on with a gun before curing, and it sands to a perfectly smooth surface with minimal effort. Only caveats are it does carry a light amber hue, and may not be compatible with all other finish products. Plus it can be a great clear and top coat for natural wood finishes in it's own right.
I have a lot of trouble with the grain filler getting pulled out when I sand it. Could I improve this by adding shellac before the grain filler? Or are you saying to just use shellac as the grain filler? Thanks.
Great tips, Chris. The general theme here (aside from using the right materials/process for each job) is patience. It's free, but for me it's always in such short supply! Also, nice save at the 10:05 mark :)
I appreciate the explanation. I'm working on a walnut gun stock right now. I've got Birchwood Casey Filler/Sealer which seems to be an all-in-one product. Starting to wonder if I should pick up a different product or use it as you described your usage.
Wonderful explanation of the process. I wish you would have demonstrated your explanation as you went. thanks for the informative video, it answered some questions I have.
Hey, thanks for the tip! It is greatly appreciated. And here is tip for you: if the Maple is figured, don’t use sanding sealer before you stain. The sealer will inhibit the absorption of the color and spoil the look you’re going for. After staining, you’ll need to fix the color before applying the top coat or the stain could lift or bleed. I prefer spraying a seal coat for this since brushing or wiping it on could make a mess of the stain. Next, you would apply a coat of Solarez ICBINL sealer. After curing it, lightly sand it smooth and follow with Solarez ICBINL top coat. BE SURE TO TEST FIRST ON SCRAP!
Hi there. Thank you so much for all your videos! They are so helpful. In episode 121 you applied a tinted grain filler on the back of the guitar before you stained the wood with tinted gelstain but here you suggest using a sealer first before staining without the gel medium and then a sealer to lock it in and then clear grain fill. I could use a little clarification, please. Thanks again for your all you do for us.
There is no right or wrong way to do this type of finish. It all depends on the outcome you want. If you want to enhance the grain, use a tinted filler first and sand it back before staining with a gel stain. Gel stains give an even color since they don’t soak into end grain so easily. Regular stains are more absorbent and yield richer color, however, they can look blotchy if you don’t use a sealer first.
Great video, but as I am not used to Solarez, I am confused with their Grain Filler/Sealer. It would work for both sanding sealer and grain filling? and their other product would work as a clear coat?
You can use the filler/sealer as both. It really depends on the wood. If it has an open pore structure like Mahogany or Ash, you can add 3M Micro Balloons to make it thicker for filling deep grain and pores. Other woods like Maple you can use it as a sealer without the micro balloons.
Great video yo. Thank you for clarifying the issue. As you said it depends. Excess filler when doing a solid colour (looks crap if preserving natural wood grain but prevents finish sinking). sealer to even out dye colouration. Also sealer to prevenient grain filler from sinking into grain when doing clear over wood. Please correct if spazzing. thanks again for the insight and enabling my misperceptions also for listing the products used
Also "baking" makes a huge difference in drying times ($20 foot heater run over finish) *colder varied climates having a heater makes a huge difference
Chris, if I were a young man beginning my career again, I would beg to apprentice with you. Perhaps I'll be a pro builder in my retirement career ...(if I ever get there).
In the past I've used 2K base polyurethane as a grain filler and I would often have problems with it shrinking and revealing grain pores through the high gloss topcoat. Even catalyzed polyurethanes tend to shrink over time just a little bit so I started using polyester which is nasty but works really well and doesn't shrink at all. Anyway, great tips as always!!
I have found that 2-4 coats of a high build sanding sealer keeps the 2k polyurethane from shrinking into the grain. And I use water-based 2k which shrinks back even more than solvent-based 2k.
what is confusing is that you are referring at Solarez grain sealer and then sanding sealer, but the example that you show of solarez says grain and filler sealer, like two in one, are you referring at that ?
I'm kinda confused on the Solarez. Is the Solarez grain filler your clear top coat or is it simply ... well ... the grain filler and then you do the clear top coat?
Solarez sells a grain sealer that is a separate product from the clear top coat. You can also mix microballoons into the sealer to make it a thicker grain filler.
@@HighlineGuitars Well, I bought the Solarez grain sealer from Amyzon, the "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter ... er .. Lacquer". So now I have to buy the Solarez top coat? Chit's expensive. 45 dollars for a pint. I thought gasoline was expensive. Wish me luck. This weekend is supposed to be Sunny and Cher so wish me luck.
I like this video, it's great. But I could use clearer explanations on a few things. What is the purpose of a sanding sealer, versus what is the purpose of a grain filler. Also can you mix water-based products with the oil-based products? And you mentioned some of these products as water-based but don't mention the other ones?
Maybe this will help: ruclips.net/video/CcFrrX6mRG8/видео.htmlsi=5FmilK_bBvFK4Oj0 I don’t recommend mixing water-based products with oil-based. If you insist on doing so, be sure to test on scrap.
Ok, I have an ash body that I want to dye stain a tv yellowish color then encase the finish with clear top coat. Is this correct: 1. Sand prep to 220 grit 2. Apply sanding sealer 3. Apply dye 4. Apply one more coat of sanding sealer 5. Apply clear grain filler 6. Apply clear topcoat I'm a slow learner...😬 Thank you SO MUCH for these videos, sir. Your work is always excellent. Cheers!
Question about your second method (I'm using on mahogany, will use your exact method)- what sanding sealer are you using?? Sanding sealers have Zinc Stearate added apparently- Solarez you describe as a grain filler in vid, but it's listed as a grain sealer on the product bottle- and your affiliate link has it listed as "grain filler sealer". Im confused which it is- is it actually both?? Or are you using a sanding sealer separate from it you don't directly mention?? I am going to stain wood with Transfast water soluble Java color dye, and finish with Waterlox in 4-5 coats at the very end btw. Secondary question- when you apply The coat of sanding sealer after the dye- do you sand that at all before using Solarez? Apparently sanding sealer has to be sanded after each time but you didn't specifically say this for that step not sure what you do there. If you do sand that before Solarez, won't it take off the dye?
I use Solarez ICBINL as both a sealer and a grain filler. Often, I use a water-based sanding sealer to fix my dye color. Then I apply the Solarez ICBINL without sanding first. In this case sanding sealer is used only to fix the dye. If I were to use it to level the surface before applying my clear coats, the I would sand between coats to get it level.
it is called a guide coat.. they make special paint for that.. lightly spray, then sand knocking down the high spots.. repeat till it all comes off even.
If I'm staining - say a Walnut stain on mahogany on an SG... if I have to sand the grain filler after I apply the stain, wont that compromise the color I'm tyring to put down?
It could if you sand through the filler. All you are trying to do is level it. Apply a couple of coats as smooth as possible to reduce to amount of sanding. If you do sand through, touch up the area with your stain. Another method would be to apply the filler first. Next, sand the surface smooth. Then apply a coat or two of a clear coat tinted the same color as your stain.
Love your videos. I watch them all and always learn something from them. On porous woods such as walnut and mahogany, can you apply Z-poxy directly to the sanded bare wood as an alternative to using pore wood filler and sanding sealer? My limited experience with Z-poxy is that it is not crystal clear and that it has somewhat of a warming tint. Would there ever be a case when you would apply Z-poxy over a tight grained wood such as figured maple that you’ve dyed? Thanks again for all that you do for the luthier community.
It depends on the wood. If you can, test on scrap. Sealer can be applied first and lightly sanded back to promote even coverage of the dye. However, the key to success is to test first.
@@tdio8742 I would apply the sealer to the Alder before the dye, but don't apply sealer to the Flamed Maple until after you apply the dye otherwise the dye won't pop the figure.
Hi Chris, great video as usual. I've heard the you have to respect the thinners of the sanding sealers and the paint you're using, in other words, you have to use water based sealer and water based paint or clear coats. Or thinner based sealers like nitro and nitro colors. Somebody told me that if you use shellac(alcohol based) to seal the wood and then for example water based high gloss barnish, it will end up cracking the coats with time. I would love to hear your thoughts about that. Thanks for sharing so much knowledge!
I've sprayed water-based clears over shellac many times without issue. Water-based products are much more forgiving than solvent-based products and can be sprayed over just anything. With solvent-based products, you have to be careful about compatibility. One of the many reasons I switched to water-based is because I got tired of finish failures due to fussy compatibility.
Hi Chris. Great video. I have some pieces finished in danish oil, and others in oddies oil. Can i use an oil based grain filler, i jave rustins brand, over an oil finish? Please answer, i can't get a reply anywhere. Thanks again for the videos
Wish I would have seen this 1st. I bought a guitar kit. Sanded down body, stained and lacquered it. Some parts /areas on guitar, the finish looks amazing. But I never did any filler or sealer so lot of the grain is showing. Any fix? I guess fully sand it all off and start over?
Yeah😂 after 8 months with this garbage result, i ended up sanding it down back to almost barewood. Too bad the ugly yellow sipped in the pores and seems. Cant do natural now. Now im using resin as pore filler. Looking grear
The old steel wool trick. Dull the gloss which makes the guitar less splotchy. Reapply and it worked perfectly fine for me. I did this in between every coat.
A very helpful video. One question: at 5:02, you talk about sanding off the sanding sealer. Does this just mean smoothing it, or actually removing it -- and either way, what grit of sandpaper do you recommend at that point? Thanks, Rob.
@@HighlineGuitarsagain.. 45 seconds in, about to hit play but saw this comment with a highlighted reply, and I already have more info to work with. First time viewer, like you already ✌️
Thanks for all the great videos! So if I'm using Solarenz grain filler sealer on mahogany, can I use it as both my grain filler and sanding sealer or should I use a separate sanding sealer? (prior to painting) Thanks
@@jugheadjones5458 you can spray grain sealer, but you can’t spray grain filler. For grain filler, you should apply it with a trowel or an old plastic credit card.
Brown Guitars recommends no sanding sealer or wood filler with Crystalaq brite tone - says he is issues with delamination with any product other than brite tone. He recommended seal with brite tone, fill with ca - tint brite tone and glaze on color - then more clear coats with 400 grit dry level sand every couple coats. Have you had issues with delamination? I have all the crystalaq products and want to finish my first two guitars - just wondering how well their gel stain, wood filler, and it’s knot shellac bond with brite tone and each other.
I have never had any issues with delamination. All Crystalac products are compatible because they contain the same basic ingredients. The ratios in each are varied since they serve different purposes. If someone claims to have issues with adhesion, it's almost always due to improper application (failure to sand between coats, less than ideal application temperature, and contaminated application equipment).
Hello! It was a great explanation. May I use thinned shellac for sanding sealer before apply the dye? I want to refinish my Ibanez Sr905 bass and my plan is to sand down to bare wood with 120-240-400-600grit paper, than apply alcohol thinned shellac , then apply dark color stain for wood grains then sand it back with 600g then dye it with the brighter color, then apply 6-8 coat of tru oil, sanding between layers. What do you think? Should I apply maybe shellac as top coat again? Should I have to grain fill before the dye? Thank you in advance.
I’m starting a mahogany thinline project with Tru-Oil. The body comes 300-grit sanded. I wanted to seal with shellac, grain-fill with brown-dye Aqua Coat and sand up to 400 before applying the Tru-Oil. Does it make sense ? I want to send the end grain to 600 to match the colour better.
I've been going through some of your videos, great content by the way! I have a question pertaining to something you did a while back in "Episode 121" that you explain differently here. In Episode 121 you mixed dye with the Gel Stain. In this video it sounds like you skip the Gel Stain and just use dye mixed in water. I'm curious if I understand this correctly or if I'm missing something? I'm thinking of ordering some materials soon and I just want to make sure I'm getting what I need. Thanks!
@@timsullivan1940 Gel stains don’t soak into the wood. They sit on top like a semi transparent paint. Dye mixed with water or alcohol soaks into the wood and helps pop figure.
Another great video - thanks so much!!! Question - if I want to apply an oil based finish on a mahogany neck (like Boiled Linseed Oil), would I first apply a grain filler or would that throw off the absorption of the oil? Aiming for the non-gloss neck feel. Thanks!
My favorite way to fill the grain is to rub in the oil with 4F Pumice. If you can't get the pumice, you can also thin the oil with some mineral spirits and wet sand it in with 320-400 grit wet/dry sandpaper.
Very helpful video. Do you remember the recipe for the stain you used in the video. Before too long I'm going to be staining a maple top and I really liked that color you used.
@@HighlineGuitars Ive refinished my orginal 70s classical yamaha with nitro and have repaired my sons poly Ibanez with good results. I appreciate the knowledge Ive learned from you. As I undertake a complete build, my goal is not perfection but a quality job. Ive experienced "sink lines" and sand marks even in my own Fender soild bodies; fortunately on the back side. I appreaciate all the knowlege you put out.
Chris, if I am doing more of a burst, and I first use sanding sealer on the sanded body and neck, then add my lighter dye to the body top, , do you add sanding sealer again before putting the darker colored dye around the edge of the body? …. or do you just let the lighter colored dye of the first coat dry, then apply darker dye on perimeter, and then add the sealer. hope that is not too confusing…lol
I will apply sanding sealer after each application of dye if the dye doesn't have a binder. It isn't critical, but it's a good idea to protect the fragile dye.
Thank you so much. No binder as I am using Keda mixed with water. Great project I am doing with my grandson...or...should I say WE are doing with my grandson. Will be purchasing your guitar plan in future. TYOU!
Oil alone will darken the wood slightly, especially where the grain and pores are open such as exposed end grain. A way to keep the hue consistent over open and closed grain and pores is to apply sanding sealer first and sand it back so it remains in the open grain and pores, but is removed from the closed grain and pores. Then you can apply the oil and it should darken the wood consistently. I don't recommend sanding sealer over figured woods since it will block the oil from popping the figure. Test for success!
hey Chris, i'm starting to finish a mahogany guitar with some deep pores - I filled them with 2 coats of grain filler, sanded it off and it appeared good to go -not so much ! After 2 coats of sealer I noticed a couple spots that were still unfilled. What would the best way to deal with them before continuing on with color ?
I would just apply the filler in those spots, let them dry, and sand them smooth. You probably should apply a final coat of sanding sealer just to make sure the spots are filled in before you apply color.
@@HighlineGuitars -thanks for the tip -that makes sense- I thought it might stand out a bit on a semi transparent colour but probably not this early on . Take care, I love the channel
I’ve been following your Chanel and love the content. Problem is I’m obviously not a good student. I recently started a fender strat kit. Followed your instructions on sanding, staining, sealing, the grain filler. Issue is I used Angelus dyes but then used the Solarez grain filler sealer and it totally ruined the stain job and after 1 full day, it is still tacky. Luckily I only did on back so I figure I can sand off and redo. It doesn’t seem any dryer than it was yesterday. Will it eventually harden enough to sand (how long) or what would you suggest to remove all the damaged areas? It was looking so good until I tried the filler. I guess I should have used a water based product like Aqua Coat which I just ordered. Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance
You'll need to talk with the folks at Solarez. I've never experienced what you describe. Always test finishing products before you commit to your actual project.
Did you ever figure out a good finish on top of the Angelus dye? I had the same issue with Angelus + Solarez. I’m trying a layer of shellac in between as a sealer but still not sure how it’s going to come out.
If I wanted to do a tung oil or danish oil finish on an ash burl veneer top, would I do the Solarez first like your stain process? Or oil first and then follow the first process as though i was doing bare wood? Thanks!
I don't like to use Solarez ICBINL with oil. The two don't stick well together. Instead, I mix a water-based light amber dye stain to replicate the look of oil and follow with the Solarez. Be sure to test on scrap with whatever finish you go with.
@@HighlineGuitars thank you! Is the ICBINL also not good with oil based stains then? I’m hoping to have my daughter use some wood stain touch up pens to draw a picture on the back of my guitar prior to staining and doing a clear coat. I’ve only seen those pens with oil based stains though, so am not sure if that will rule out my ability to use the ICBINL grain filler and finish?
@@HighlineGuitars wiping it on and no binder. Is that the issue? It actually turned out kinda cool thinning it out a bit and showing the grain more. Still was surprising as this is my first kit. I did end up with some bubble bumps in the sanding sealer that I tried to sand down and went too deep...oops
@@HighlineGuitars would you recommend just clear coat after staining the maple fingerboard? Btw I’m planning a vintage yellowish stain on maple fingerboard.
Great job on explaining all the scenarios you had your audience tune in 😄
Probably the best resource I’ve seen regarding guitar finishes - and I actually understand it! Another great video, Chris.
Yep. Been watching since he was using a workmate and a belt sander. He's helped all of us a ton!!
I agree whole heartedly - Chris is very generous with helpful research and trials info - and he takes a lot of time to make these videos.
@@jeffhall5888 I think a workmate is a top-ten essential shop tool! lol
I needed this videos 2 years ago...
I just stumbled on to this channel , prior to a guitar build / funny how when the student is ready , the teacher will appear !!! awesome channel learned about Brite Tone here !!
I wish I had watched this video prior to my first adventure staining a body. Your videos on several topics have been so inspiring and helpful. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and being kind to those of us that are just getting started. P.S. we need a lion graphic t shirt!
45 seconds in and... Thank you! Exactly what I am trying learn and understand right now. Now back to the show...
Love the shirt! Great video breaking down the use of a sanding sealer. Wasn't entirely sure how they worked but I have no doubts now. I repair/restore furniture and have been struggling with a piece I am working on. Your video just solved my dilemma. Thanks for the great content 👍
I wish I had found this video about two months ago. It's probably the most helpful and best video for finishing I've found. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Great information here! I recommend to anyone who wants to remember this write up a chart on a piece of paper and copy over the information from the video so you'll always have a quick, physical reference to it if needed.
Thanks for the info. I just bought a kit and am dreaming up the finish.
Thanks for an informative video.
I'm using StewMac products, and have been puzzling over the fact that the grain filler says "for best results first apply 1-2 coats of sanding sealer". On the sanding sealer it says "apply over grain filler to lock in grain filler and seal the wood."
Nothing like contradictory product labels. Your scenarios pointed me in the right direction.
Thanks for all those explanations. I'm just getting into this and it can be quite confusing. This video is a good reference. I'm sure I will watch it several times...
Glad to hear it!
Very good information. The best on guitar finishing I’ve seen. Thanks!
Another in a long line of super helpful videos, thorough and well explained. Thanks, Chris!
No love for shellac? It dries very quickly without need for a curing process, and gives additional piece of mind in the sense that it is compatible with every type of finish imaginable. Plus, you can advertise your guitar as having an organic, free-range all natural sanding sealer. XD
That aside, the SolarEZ Lacquer is great stuff. I even spray it on with a gun before curing, and it sands to a perfectly smooth surface with minimal effort. Only caveats are it does carry a light amber hue, and may not be compatible with all other finish products. Plus it can be a great clear and top coat for natural wood finishes in it's own right.
I have a lot of trouble with the grain filler getting pulled out when I sand it. Could I improve this by adding shellac before the grain filler? Or are you saying to just use shellac as the grain filler? Thanks.
Great tips, Chris. The general theme here (aside from using the right materials/process for each job) is patience. It's free, but for me it's always in such short supply!
Also, nice save at the 10:05 mark :)
Great video. Achieving a "professional" grade finish is absolutely my most challenging part of guitar building, this was helpful thank you!.
I appreciate the explanation. I'm working on a walnut gun stock right now. I've got Birchwood Casey Filler/Sealer which seems to be an all-in-one product. Starting to wonder if I should pick up a different product or use it as you described your usage.
Awesome video. Makes we want to make a dozen guitar bodies to try every combination.
Thanks!
I just ran across this video. Fantastic. Straight to the point.
Thanks for the tip Lynn. Much appreciated!
Wonderful explanation of the process. I wish you would have demonstrated your explanation as you went. thanks for the informative video, it answered some questions I have.
Is sanding sealer required on maple top - I plan to stain dark sand then re-stain - can I use Solarez for finish coats?
Hey, thanks for the tip! It is greatly appreciated. And here is tip for you: if the Maple is figured, don’t use sanding sealer before you stain. The sealer will inhibit the absorption of the color and spoil the look you’re going for. After staining, you’ll need to fix the color before applying the top coat or the stain could lift or bleed. I prefer spraying a seal coat for this since brushing or wiping it on could make a mess of the stain. Next, you would apply a coat of Solarez ICBINL sealer. After curing it, lightly sand it smooth and follow with Solarez ICBINL top coat. BE SURE TO TEST FIRST ON SCRAP!
Thanks - do you ever raise grain (let’s say with water) before applying dark coat on figured maple?
If so do wait for it to dry ?
@@jlgultra1 No.
Great years of experience told here and appreciated. EVERY WORD is proper and important. Thank you!
Great advice before i tackle my first dye and finish
Hi there. Thank you so much for all your videos! They are so helpful. In episode 121 you applied a tinted grain filler on the back of the guitar before you stained the wood with tinted gelstain but here you suggest using a sealer first before staining without the gel medium and then a sealer to lock it in and then clear grain fill. I could use a little clarification, please. Thanks again for your all you do for us.
There is no right or wrong way to do this type of finish. It all depends on the outcome you want. If you want to enhance the grain, use a tinted filler first and sand it back before staining with a gel stain. Gel stains give an even color since they don’t soak into end grain so easily. Regular stains are more absorbent and yield richer color, however, they can look blotchy if you don’t use a sealer first.
Great video, but as I am not used to Solarez, I am confused with their Grain Filler/Sealer. It would work for both sanding sealer and grain filling? and their other product would work as a clear coat?
You can use the filler/sealer as both. It really depends on the wood. If it has an open pore structure like Mahogany or Ash, you can add 3M Micro Balloons to make it thicker for filling deep grain and pores. Other woods like Maple you can use it as a sealer without the micro balloons.
I'm getting ready to paint a body. This was a helpful video.
And yes, always test on scrap. Super important idea that I've learned the hard way.
Great video yo. Thank you for clarifying the issue. As you said it depends. Excess filler when doing a solid colour (looks crap if preserving natural wood grain but prevents finish sinking). sealer to even out dye colouration. Also sealer to prevenient grain filler from sinking into grain when doing clear over wood. Please correct if spazzing. thanks again for the insight and enabling my misperceptions also for listing the products used
Will pass on UV cure filler when I find one in Australia. water based is a joke when it comes to shrinking
Also yeah nah. scrap wood is a god send. Remember to leave it for a month to see what's really going on
Also "baking" makes a huge difference in drying times ($20 foot heater run over finish) *colder varied climates having a heater makes a huge difference
Hi, Chris. Which way should I go if I plan to use a transparent Butterscotch nitro lacquer for a color coat?
What kind of wood?
I was JUST starting this process yesterday and having the same questions. Thank you so much!
So, in a basic nutshell, before I decide to stain the Bear wood, I should use the Solarex ICBINL ?
Chris you are awesome brother. That was very helpful in helping me understand how to go about finishing guitar.
Chris, if I were a young man beginning my career again, I would beg to apprentice with you. Perhaps I'll be a pro builder in my retirement career ...(if I ever get there).
? You did not mention wetting to raise the grain and then sanding it off, is that not a concern using this process for dye staining? Thank you.
Yes, you should raise the grain and sand it down.
In the past I've used 2K base polyurethane as a grain filler and I would often have problems with it shrinking and revealing grain pores through the high gloss topcoat. Even catalyzed polyurethanes tend to shrink over time just a little bit so I started using polyester which is nasty but works really well and doesn't shrink at all. Anyway, great tips as always!!
I have found that 2-4 coats of a high build sanding sealer keeps the 2k polyurethane from shrinking into the grain. And I use water-based 2k which shrinks back even more than solvent-based 2k.
@@HighlineGuitars which sanding sealer do you recommend to use under the 2K top coat when going for a natural finish?
@@solwinds6031 centurionwoodcoatings.com/product/cw-2001-high-build-clear-sanding-sealer/
what is confusing is that you are referring at Solarez grain sealer and then sanding sealer, but the example that you show of solarez says grain and filler sealer, like two in one, are you referring at that ?
They are one and the same.
I'm kinda confused on the Solarez. Is the Solarez grain filler your clear top coat or is it simply ... well ... the grain filler and then you do the clear top coat?
Solarez sells a grain sealer that is a separate product from the clear top coat. You can also mix microballoons into the sealer to make it a thicker grain filler.
@@HighlineGuitars Well, I bought the Solarez grain sealer from Amyzon, the "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter ... er .. Lacquer". So now I have to buy the Solarez top coat? Chit's expensive. 45 dollars for a pint. I thought gasoline was expensive. Wish me luck. This weekend is supposed to be Sunny and Cher so wish me luck.
I like this video, it's great. But I could use clearer explanations on a few things. What is the purpose of a sanding sealer, versus what is the purpose of a grain filler. Also can you mix water-based products with the oil-based products? And you mentioned some of these products as water-based but don't mention the other ones?
Maybe this will help: ruclips.net/video/CcFrrX6mRG8/видео.htmlsi=5FmilK_bBvFK4Oj0
I don’t recommend mixing water-based products with oil-based. If you insist on doing so, be sure to test on scrap.
Can I spray nitro directly onto the solarez grain filler without using the sanding sealer?
This is great, Chris! Now I have a better understanding of what I need to do on a couple of upcoming guitar projects
Ok, I have an ash body that I want to dye stain a tv yellowish color then encase the finish with clear top coat. Is this correct:
1. Sand prep to 220 grit
2. Apply sanding sealer
3. Apply dye
4. Apply one more coat of sanding sealer
5. Apply clear grain filler
6. Apply clear topcoat
I'm a slow learner...😬
Thank you SO MUCH for these videos, sir. Your work is always excellent. Cheers!
You got it.
@@HighlineGuitars Awesome! Thanks again! Very much appreciated.
Question about your second method (I'm using on mahogany, will use your exact method)- what sanding sealer are you using?? Sanding sealers have Zinc Stearate added apparently- Solarez you describe as a grain filler in vid, but it's listed as a grain sealer on the product bottle- and your affiliate link has it listed as "grain filler sealer". Im confused which it is- is it actually both?? Or are you using a sanding sealer separate from it you don't directly mention?? I am going to stain wood with Transfast water soluble Java color dye, and finish with Waterlox in 4-5 coats at the very end btw. Secondary question- when you apply The coat of sanding sealer after the dye- do you sand that at all before using Solarez? Apparently sanding sealer has to be sanded after each time but you didn't specifically say this for that step not sure what you do there. If you do sand that before Solarez, won't it take off the dye?
I use Solarez ICBINL as both a sealer and a grain filler. Often, I use a water-based sanding sealer to fix my dye color. Then I apply the Solarez ICBINL without sanding first. In this case sanding sealer is used only to fix the dye. If I were to use it to level the surface before applying my clear coats, the I would sand between coats to get it level.
it is called a guide coat.. they make special paint for that.. lightly spray, then sand knocking down the high spots.. repeat till it all comes off even.
I covered the use of a guide coat in this video: ruclips.net/video/jls0YHhCjTw/видео.html
Staining the guitar, are you sanding the solareze before you put the sanding sealer on again?
Yes.
Thanks for the insight. I have not seen this information any place else
Glad it was helpful!
If I'm staining - say a Walnut stain on mahogany on an SG... if I have to sand the grain filler after I apply the stain, wont that compromise the color I'm tyring to put down?
It could if you sand through the filler. All you are trying to do is level it. Apply a couple of coats as smooth as possible to reduce to amount of sanding. If you do sand through, touch up the area with your stain. Another method would be to apply the filler first. Next, sand the surface smooth. Then apply a coat or two of a clear coat tinted the same color as your stain.
Love your videos. I watch them all and always learn something from them.
On porous woods such as walnut and mahogany, can you apply Z-poxy directly to the sanded bare wood as an alternative to using pore wood filler and sanding sealer? My limited experience with Z-poxy is that it is not crystal clear and that it has somewhat of a warming tint.
Would there ever be a case when you would apply Z-poxy over a tight grained wood such as figured maple that you’ve dyed?
Thanks again for all that you do for the luthier community.
Perfect, succinct, clear advice - as ever! Cheers!🎸🎸
Would you still use the order described in the dye portion of the video if the final sealer is Tru-Oil? Thank you!!
I would test it first on scrap wood.
Thank you for the info. Question though. If enhance the grain with dye, should I still put a coat of sanding sealer first? Or after the due. Thanks.
It depends on the wood. If you can, test on scrap. Sealer can be applied first and lightly sanded back to promote even coverage of the dye. However, the key to success is to test first.
Excellent idea. It’s and alder body with flame maple top. I love your channel. Thanks.
@@tdio8742 I would apply the sealer to the Alder before the dye, but don't apply sealer to the Flamed Maple until after you apply the dye otherwise the dye won't pop the figure.
Thank you so very much!
Hi Chris, great video as usual.
I've heard the you have to respect the thinners of the sanding sealers and the paint you're using, in other words, you have to use water based sealer and water based paint or clear coats. Or thinner based sealers like nitro and nitro colors.
Somebody told me that if you use shellac(alcohol based) to seal the wood and then for example water based high gloss barnish, it will end up cracking the coats with time. I would love to hear your thoughts about that. Thanks for sharing so much knowledge!
I've sprayed water-based clears over shellac many times without issue. Water-based products are much more forgiving than solvent-based products and can be sprayed over just anything. With solvent-based products, you have to be careful about compatibility. One of the many reasons I switched to water-based is because I got tired of finish failures due to fussy compatibility.
Hi Chris. Great video. I have some pieces finished in danish oil, and others in oddies oil. Can i use an oil based grain filler, i jave rustins brand, over an oil finish? Please answer, i can't get a reply anywhere. Thanks again for the videos
Building a Tele and finishing it in opaque vintage blonde. Do you suggest sanding between coats of grain filler?
Yes. You'll get a smoother surface for your opaque color.
Wish I would have seen this 1st. I bought a guitar kit. Sanded down body, stained and lacquered it. Some parts /areas on guitar, the finish looks amazing. But I never did any filler or sealer so lot of the grain is showing.
Any fix? I guess fully sand it all off and start over?
I did none of this. Just dye and finish. End result, lumpy blotchy garbage
Yeah😂 after 8 months with this garbage result, i ended up sanding it down back to almost barewood.
Too bad the ugly yellow sipped in the pores and seems.
Cant do natural now.
Now im using resin as pore filler. Looking grear
The old steel wool trick. Dull the gloss which makes the guitar less splotchy. Reapply and it worked perfectly fine for me. I did this in between every coat.
Thanks, I've been searching for how to grain fill a stained finish 😀
Would you apply grain filler to a dense wood like Alder? Great video!
You can, but I wouldn't.
A very helpful video. One question: at 5:02, you talk about sanding off the sanding sealer. Does this just mean smoothing it, or actually removing it -- and either way, what grit of sandpaper do you recommend at that point? Thanks, Rob.
You sand off the sealer just from the surface while leaving it in the pores. I use 400 grit.
@@HighlineGuitarsagain.. 45 seconds in, about to hit play but saw this comment with a highlighted reply, and I already have more info to work with. First time viewer, like you already ✌️
So i just got my unfinished guitar body. Doo i sand it to 320 and then put down the sanding sealer?
Sorry, going to stain/dye it next.
That’s what I would do.
I see 3 grain fillers and tints/dyes listed above but no sanding sealer ?...
Great videos-a big thank you! I’ve got a swamp ash strat body that I want to stain walnut.
What is your recommended Sanding Sealer product?
Centurion High Build Sanding Sealer.
Thanks for all the great videos! So if I'm using Solarenz grain filler sealer on mahogany, can I use it as both my grain filler and sanding sealer or should I use a separate sanding sealer? (prior to painting) Thanks
You can use it as both.
can you add tint to solarez directly to grainfill? the website seems to only have that answer for the poly surfboard fill they sell
I’ve never added tint to Solarez ICBINL, so I don’t know.
@@HighlineGuitarsno worries. think i’m going to do some solarez ICBINL, then light stain, then seal it up, how’s that sound? first time for me!
What’s a good way to put sealer on smoothly?
Spray gun.
@@HighlineGuitars thank you
@@HighlineGuitars i should have specified grain sealer. Spray it too?
@@jugheadjones5458 you can spray grain sealer, but you can’t spray grain filler. For grain filler, you should apply it with a trowel or an old plastic credit card.
@@HighlineGuitars ok. Glad i checked. I’m glad I rechecked what I posted. I should’ve been more specific. Thanks again!
Brown Guitars recommends no sanding sealer or wood filler with Crystalaq brite tone - says he is issues with delamination with any product other than brite tone. He recommended seal with brite tone, fill with ca - tint brite tone and glaze on color - then more clear coats with 400 grit dry level sand every couple coats. Have you had issues with delamination? I have all the crystalaq products and want to finish my first two guitars - just wondering how well their gel stain, wood filler, and it’s knot shellac bond with brite tone and each other.
I have never had any issues with delamination. All Crystalac products are compatible because they contain the same basic ingredients. The ratios in each are varied since they serve different purposes. If someone claims to have issues with adhesion, it's almost always due to improper application (failure to sand between coats, less than ideal application temperature, and contaminated application equipment).
Hello! It was a great explanation. May I use thinned shellac for sanding sealer before apply the dye? I want to refinish my Ibanez Sr905 bass and my plan is to sand down to bare wood with 120-240-400-600grit paper, than apply alcohol thinned shellac , then apply dark color stain for wood grains then sand it back with 600g then dye it with the brighter color, then apply 6-8 coat of tru oil, sanding between layers. What do you think? Should I apply maybe shellac as top coat again? Should I have to grain fill before the dye? Thank you in advance.
Absolutely!
@@HighlineGuitars thank you. i have edited the former question.
so helpful. awesome video. thank you!
if you are going to stain do you apply the solarez filler first or after stain?
Either way works.
I’m starting a mahogany thinline project with Tru-Oil. The body comes 300-grit sanded. I wanted to seal with shellac, grain-fill with brown-dye Aqua Coat and sand up to 400 before applying the Tru-Oil. Does it make sense ? I want to send the end grain to 600 to match the colour better.
Love that shirt!!!
What do you use for sanding sealer?
Crystalac.
What about if you're working with oak? I want to paint it orange. Do I need some kind of tannin blocker or would just the filler then sealer be OK?
If you're in doubt, use a tannin blocking sealer.
I've been going through some of your videos, great content by the way! I have a question pertaining to something you did a while back in "Episode 121" that you explain differently here. In Episode 121 you mixed dye with the Gel Stain. In this video it sounds like you skip the Gel Stain and just use dye mixed in water. I'm curious if I understand this correctly or if I'm missing something? I'm thinking of ordering some materials soon and I just want to make sure I'm getting what I need. Thanks!
How you use it depends on what kind of look you’re after.
@@HighlineGuitars could I pull on that string and ask, “how are the two looks different?”
@@timsullivan1940 Gel stains don’t soak into the wood. They sit on top like a semi transparent paint. Dye mixed with water or alcohol soaks into the wood and helps pop figure.
Is there an actual sanding sealer you recommend that will work with alcohol based dye.
Very well explained.
Hi. Which sanding sealer do you use?
@@jennifertan4180 Crystalac.
Another great video - thanks so much!!! Question - if I want to apply an oil based finish on a mahogany neck (like Boiled Linseed Oil), would I first apply a grain filler or would that throw off the absorption of the oil? Aiming for the non-gloss neck feel. Thanks!
My favorite way to fill the grain is to rub in the oil with 4F Pumice. If you can't get the pumice, you can also thin the oil with some mineral spirits and wet sand it in with 320-400 grit wet/dry sandpaper.
Very helpful video.
Do you remember the recipe for the stain you used in the video. Before too long I'm going to be staining a maple top and I really liked that color you used.
No, sorry
Is it lack of detail with manufactures, even expensive Fenders, that you see witness & sink lines at body seams?
That and the fact that guitars are made of wood, which expands and contracts in unpredictable ways.
@@HighlineGuitars Ive refinished my orginal 70s classical yamaha with nitro and have repaired my sons poly Ibanez with good results. I appreciate the knowledge Ive learned from you. As I undertake a complete build, my goal is not perfection but a quality job. Ive experienced "sink lines" and sand marks even in my own Fender soild bodies; fortunately on the back side. I appreaciate all the knowlege you put out.
Chris, if I am doing more of a burst, and I first use sanding sealer on the sanded body and neck, then add my lighter dye to the body top, , do you add sanding sealer again before putting the darker colored dye around the edge of the body? …. or do you just let the lighter colored dye of the first coat dry, then apply darker dye on perimeter, and then add the sealer. hope that is not too confusing…lol
I will apply sanding sealer after each application of dye if the dye doesn't have a binder. It isn't critical, but it's a good idea to protect the fragile dye.
Thank you so much. No binder as I am using Keda mixed with water. Great project I am doing with my grandson...or...should I say WE are doing with my grandson. Will be purchasing your guitar plan in future. TYOU!
Oh that shirt!!!!! Long live The Shape!
Chris the hair looks good man! Takes off a few years!
What about oil finishes for a natural finish no stain?
Oil alone will darken the wood slightly, especially where the grain and pores are open such as exposed end grain. A way to keep the hue consistent over open and closed grain and pores is to apply sanding sealer first and sand it back so it remains in the open grain and pores, but is removed from the closed grain and pores. Then you can apply the oil and it should darken the wood consistently. I don't recommend sanding sealer over figured woods since it will block the oil from popping the figure. Test for success!
@@HighlineGuitars Thank you
Would you still need grain filler on alder, for a solid colour?
No. A high build sanding sealer will work better as it can be applied smoother, which means less prep work.
Thanks for the video
A diagram would be helpful ...
hey Chris, i'm starting to finish a mahogany guitar with some deep pores - I filled them with 2 coats of grain filler, sanded it off and it appeared good to go -not so much ! After 2 coats of sealer I noticed a couple spots that were still unfilled. What would the best way to deal with them before continuing on with color ?
I would just apply the filler in those spots, let them dry, and sand them smooth. You probably should apply a final coat of sanding sealer just to make sure the spots are filled in before you apply color.
@@HighlineGuitars -thanks for the tip -that makes sense- I thought it might stand out a bit on a semi transparent colour but probably not this early on . Take care, I love the channel
I’ve been following your Chanel and love the content. Problem is I’m obviously not a good student. I recently started a fender strat kit. Followed your instructions on sanding, staining, sealing, the grain filler. Issue is I used Angelus dyes but then used the Solarez grain filler sealer and it totally ruined the stain job and after 1 full day, it is still tacky. Luckily I only did on back so I figure I can sand off and redo. It doesn’t seem any dryer than it was yesterday. Will it eventually harden enough to sand (how long) or what would you suggest to remove all the damaged areas?
It was looking so good until I tried the filler. I guess I should have used a water based product like Aqua Coat which I just ordered.
Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
You'll need to talk with the folks at Solarez. I've never experienced what you describe. Always test finishing products before you commit to your actual project.
Did you ever figure out a good finish on top of the Angelus dye? I had the same issue with Angelus + Solarez. I’m trying a layer of shellac in between as a sealer but still not sure how it’s going to come out.
@@unfinished-projects-dept Sorry, but no. I don't use Angelus dyes, so I can't comment.
Great tip on the primer colors👊🏻
If I wanted to do a tung oil or danish oil finish on an ash burl veneer top, would I do the Solarez first like your stain process? Or oil first and then follow the first process as though i was doing bare wood? Thanks!
I don't like to use Solarez ICBINL with oil. The two don't stick well together. Instead, I mix a water-based light amber dye stain to replicate the look of oil and follow with the Solarez. Be sure to test on scrap with whatever finish you go with.
@@HighlineGuitars thank you! Is the ICBINL also not good with oil based stains then? I’m hoping to have my daughter use some wood stain touch up pens to draw a picture on the back of my guitar prior to staining and doing a clear coat. I’ve only seen those pens with oil based stains though, so am not sure if that will rule out my ability to use the ICBINL grain filler and finish?
So I just finished with the sanding sealer, sanding, and dying the body. There seems to be some shiny spots. Is this ok?
Very educational thank you!
So if i wanna paint it with transparent color the order is sanding filler, dye color, an then grain filler? and then lacquer?
That's how I'd do it.
@@HighlineGuitars thanks!
with the first scenario do you sand the grain filler then apply the sealer ?
Would the process for the dye stain be the same as an oil based stain?
Just laid down a coat of Minwax Sanding Sealer and it's picking up tons of my dye. Did I do something wrong. I laid down the dye 2 days ago.
Are you spraying or wiping it on? Does your dye have a binder in it?
@@HighlineGuitars wiping it on and no binder. Is that the issue? It actually turned out kinda cool thinning it out a bit and showing the grain more. Still was surprising as this is my first kit. I did end up with some bubble bumps in the sanding sealer that I tried to sand down and went too deep...oops
Great lesson and show, thank you.
I’m trying to get a really light blue stain. Like an ice blue. Any suggestions?
I got a acoustic guitar that I sanded down to bare wood what is the minimum I can do? Just to protect the wood.
Apply boiled linseed oil.
Hi Chris, is the process of multiple coats of grain filler and sanding sealer applies to stained maple fingerboard too?
Not for me. I would never put that much stuff on a fretboard, especially stain.
@@HighlineGuitars would you recommend just clear coat after staining the maple fingerboard? Btw I’m planning a vintage yellowish stain on maple fingerboard.
What grit sandpaper is used. I am doing a finish with the Keda Dye. Thank you.