Aqua-Coat... How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Grain Filler!
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- Опубликовано: 17 ноя 2020
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Finishing your guitar is the hardest part of the whole process. We never really used grain filler… we always just jumped right into the sanding sealer. Then we tried out Aqua-Coat High performance grain filler and really liked the results. In this video we talk a little about what it is but mostly show you how it works in concert with the other finishing products we use.
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Informative and enjoyable as always, thanks!
Thank you for your service and for helping others
Hey Matt, I use Aqua Coat for about three years. In my shop the first coat is nitro or PU-laquer. Then you get a nice deep natural colour. After smooth sanding by hands the second and third coat is with aqua coat grain filler with sanding between. The next two coats of laquer are enough to start the polishing work. It´s pretty difficult applying the grain filler directly on the wood if you like to have a transparent look. When the wood gets coloured, you can grain fill first. Nice Greetings ... wfo-guitarservice , Hannover, Germany
A little late to this party and agree with above comments. An example, an acoustic with an Indian Rosewood back and sides really requires some kind of lacquer/shellac/epoxy initial coat to get the grain to POP as any water based filler simply does not do that trick. Second/third coats can then be water based filler to save time and effort over second coats of epoxy etc. and leave the beautiful gran that the lacquer/shellac/epoxy stuff brings out. Shellac with the WB filler over that would be the most economical quickest I'm thinking but have yet to try.
Hah! I just noticed Dan from Guns'n'Guitars and Brad Angove hanging on the wall in the background. Brad complete with the "South Park style Canadian mouth". Classic!
Thanks Thomas
Great to see Brad and Dan looking over your shoulder the whole video.
I concur, Dan's appearance on the Texas Toast Shrine is awesome. I have one Feng Shui suggestion for the shrine. Dan should be moved to my left the clock's right, across from Brad.
I'm currently doing a translucent dirty white blonde finish on swamp ash P bass body which takes some work to fill and flatten out before the color goes on. I'm using Aqua Coat filler and vinyl sealer. I think I'm sold on this Aqua Coat product. ++ Bonus, I was also considering applying my MG Chem nickel super shield paint in the pickup and control cavities before my finial sealer coat. Now this video confirms that this is a good idea so that's definitely what I'll do. Thanks for your tips! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Good pro tip on shielding first, then sealing. Next finish!
It's going to be neat
I like videos like this. Please keep it up!
Thanks, will do!
Wow, haven't really noticed how many subscribers you've accumulated since just before the GGBO. You were at, what, 12k? Congrats!
I can't remember either
Stewmac has a new watter base grain fill also. I used to hate grain filler, now it's ad joy.
Just ordered a quart of it early this morning, before watching your video. I picked up an older abuse acoustic guitar that had damaged finish in many areas. I stripped off all the old finish and repaired the damaged areas and sanded it down with 220. This time I want to bring out some of the hidden wood grain on that older guitar, especially on the back and the sides which came up good after getting all the old black and blue finish off it. The face surface was damaged a bit too much for bringing out the wood grain, so it's been repaired and smoothed out, and will be sprayed bright white. If done well, it should stand out nicely. I was looking at getting Solarez UV grain filler, but in Canada, it costs double the price it would cost to buy it in the USA, so Aqua Coat is getting the job of helping restore this older guitar back to good health again. Aqua Coat only cost me around $59 a quart, where the Solarez grain filler would have cost me $104 for a pint. There will be some shrinkage with Aqua Coat while curing, but once fully cured, it will be okay and do the job I want it to do. Enjoyed your video.
Hope you like it Wayne
I like the aquacoat, especially for mahogany. I use a lot of wood dyes on my builds. One thing i learned real quick, when applying over dyes, scoop out the aquacoat into another cup and use it out of the other cup. if not the color of the dye residue will stain what's left in the aquacoat container. I used red dye on a guitar and just didn't think about it, the dye had been dry for about a week, but it picked up some of the dye as i was rubbing it. it turned the aquacoat pink on my gloves, scooped the aquacoat out and got just a little dye in the aquacoat. Opened the aquacoat the next day and the whole container looked pink lol
No double dipping! :)
@@ChrisFranklyn lol yup
That cloudiness and hard white little buggers down in the pores that I had to did out and refill (extra pain in the butt) are what brought me to throwing my aquacoat in the trash and never looking back. I still get emails from Barry. I was working with padauk which has very deep pores. Maybe the tub I bought was old stock.
Maybe?
Last summer, based on other reviews I had seen, I bought this stuff. I put 5-6 coats on a mahogany kit body and still could see quite a few pores. Pretty disappointed. Mine didn't come with a squeegee, so maybe that's something I need to revisit.
Bought a can of Timbermate and one coat later I was ready to paint.
@john jones, a quick pass with lacquer thinner wil also pull out trapped moisture but I’m guessing most folks using water bourn products are trying to get away from the toxic stuff. I know I am.
Wondering if impregnating the wood with casting resin would help.
@@BrunodeSouzaLino I think the big draw for some is the clearness that Aqua coat is supposed to have. No ambering like resins or oil based polys may have.
This was recommended to me and I tried it a few times. It works, but my finishes had a very cold look when done. I think I see that look I am talking about when you held it up after spraying. Last couple of guitar I went back to oil-based filler and the depth, warmth, and smoothness of a nice finish was back. Maybe I didn’t use it quite right, but that was my experience. BTW, your videos are really good. I build acoustics, but enjoy watching a really top smaller builder getting such great results.
Thanks for the kind words Stephen
Where do you find an oil based sealer or grain filler? What brands?
I spot with my little eye a Dr.Strangelove reference!
I've been using this stuff for a couple of years. I never had a problem with cloudiness but it has been my experience that it shrinks back a LOT. It does work but don't go into it with the expectation that you will only need two coats (depending on the species).
It does spread really nice, sands easy, and a little goes a long way. No problems yet under solvent lacquer but I give it extra time to dry out in that case. Better safe than sorry.
I think the second coat was too much
@@TexasToastGuitars I've had my current jar for a while and I will say the color of what was in your container looks slightly different from what is in mine. It's definitely the same product, though. Maybe they changed something.
@@Boethius4748 Hey Brian from Aqua Coat here. The container in the video is a new product PGF High Performance Grain Giller. It is similar to the original but we were asked to improve on the original and this is what we came up with. Same clarity, easy application, easy sanding, water clean up and 20% more solids/ build so you will need less coats. Its available only at www.aquacoat.com
@@aquacoat9589 thank for clarifying, Brian. I will definitely pickup a new jar!
@@aquacoat9589
I’m not sure how to use this stuff. I did several experimental panels trying with and without shellac seal coats. When I determined that it’s best to seal first, I tried it on an instrument and got blotchy results that I could not rescue, so I ended up removing the entire top and replacing it. The good outcome is that I learned how to use pumice for grain filling.
Can this be used with stain? If so, how? Before or after filling?
I love American made PRS guitars but who can afford them! Happy birthday Matt, love the channel
Thanks Pete
Would it make sense to apply one coat of sealer, pore fill, another coat of sealer, then finish?
Recommend Solarez uv filler. Easy sanding cures in few mins then on to the stains/paints
Very nice demonstration, buggers and all. ;) I rib you guys sometimes, but love what you do, and the fact that you don't come across as remotely self-conscious is just icing on the cake...keep it up.
BTW, is Aqua-Coat usable on all open grain woods? You've piqued my curiosity...
Thanks for watching my friend. We will be doing more with AquaCoat in the future on woods like ash etc..
What order if wanted spray aniline dye and pore fill? How could you do that. Good clips.
Matt I have been useing aquacoat for about a year now I like it but it can be a pain in the ass to try & sand it all off and I find it takes at least 3 coats on really tough wood like paduke which is really grainy. Thanks Matt You rock🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🎸🎸🎸🎸💪💪🧨
This is my experience as well. I use powdered stew Mac or Goodfilla if I don’t need to see the grain, it just shrinks less.
@@velvethausfrau I have tried stew mac grain filler but it was not the one you mentioned. I will have too check that out, Thanks Man.
I think the second coat was too much
brad on your right, says he loved the video !!
Hope so!
Favorite line of all your videos "Enough with the Bullshit talk!" love it, keep it up, your helping me become smarter.
Thanks Larry
Oh yeah! Great advice. I used a Scotch Brite Pad to get the boogers off and now my nose is bleeding all over the place 😫
We are not responsible for any bloody noses
Just as easy to go to Lowe’s and get some vinyl wall patch filler and add color for less than 5 bucks! You sand it back anyways!
We did that a few times, looks cool on ash for sure
Been a while... has the opinion about Aqua-Coat sealer changed at all? How is it with stains and tinted finishes?
fender uses in the cs models stained grain filler sanding sealer and tinted finish on the necks cheers
The stuff has it's advantages and disadvanteges. Positive is that it is waterbased and therefor doesn't produce hazardous emissions. It's also easy to apply. A disadvantage in my opinion is that the stuff tends to sink inn into the pores after a while even when applied several times. Even if it sinks in just a bit, it's enough to leave an orange peel kind of surface.
I rarely use anything water-based
Coincidentally, I just bought some aqua coat to try out.
The great mystery is a reliable way to stain or dye the wood without blotchiness, enhance the grain, and still get a shiny coat on top, for any wood.
Stop looking at guitar making videos. Look at woodworking videos instead. That's a solved problem.
Yep, love this stuff but you gotta be sure to sand of the excess. I usually wipe with mineral spirits to see see what under the dust then hit the spots I missed. It a lot easier if you final sanding is truly level especially on the sides as they always leave me a little extra work! ;-)
Good tip!
the list of finish products i want to try keeps growing! i currently use solarez uv cure grain filler and sealer - fast AF and no shrinkage whatsoever. the learning curve is pretty steep though - i've messed stuff up with it.. i've also used solarez uv cure gloss topcoat before, and i'd sooner drink bleach than do so again - the end result is pretty, but getting there sucked. i've been curious about Crystalacs uv cure filler, and i think Total Boat might have a decent grain filler too. i have concerns abut a water based filler and its compatibility with solvent and uv cure polyurethane as well as solvent cure epoxy topcoats
thanks guys!
I don't have a lot of experience with water-based products
The grain filler will accept solvent based and uv cure poly as long as they are not wiped on.@@TexasToastGuitars
@@aquacoat9589 Thanks good to know what the manufacturer recommends
Hello! Thanks for the video! Can I apply nitrocellulose sanding sealer, color & clear coats over a water based fillers?
It is always best to contact the manufacturer of both your filters and finishes with questions like these. I rarely if ever answer them.
How does it compare to Stu Mac's clear grain filler? Getting ready to use it for the first time.
Stew Mac neutral is not actually clear. Stew Mac shrinks less so fewer applications. Stew Mac makes a bigger dusty mess when removing it. My experience has been: use aqua coat when you want the grain to show. Use Stew Mac (or goodfilla, same stuff apparently) when going with opaque paint. Always lots of coats and try not to sand it too much until the end, or you just pull the filler out.
A question please. I tried Aquacoat on an acoustic african mahogany. The can says the coats must be only LIGHTLY sanded. The question is, before finish, should I send through the coat to the wood or not? The problem is if I sand through the coat, NEW pores appear. So the question is how to sand the aqua coats? What grit? Thank you.
We use 320
I’ve heard that Wilt Chamberlain’s little black book was about half the size of the one Chris’ beard has.
Truth
Matt do you use the white gray or red scotch brite? Have you ever tried 3m synthetic steel wool 🤔🤔
We use them both
Thank you for your service.
I was never in the Marine Corps but I have a lot of buddies that were and I love them all
" A little bit of Scotch Brite to get all the rest of the buggers off..." Matt is my favorite youtube star!!!
"Boogers" .... "buggers" is a verb, and means something entirely different! LOL
@@pulaski1 buggers is also a noun at least where I come from.
@@deemdoubleu Agreed, where I'm from too, perhaps not that far from you, as I am 3,500 miles from home? .... It's still not what Matt said though. :)
@@pulaski1 Yes he said boogers which is an American term I think, certainly not English
@@deemdoubleu They what Americans call "bogeys" (congealed snot), or in the context of what Matt meant "random bits of stuff".
Do you think one should use wood conditioner before staining woods like cherry? By the way, Matt, thank you for your service. And I bet had you sprayed one round of sealer first, then the Aquacoat, then more sealer, it may have bypassed blotching?
Could be my friend, we are using a new pore filler these days that is UV cure and we really like it. Also no blotching.
So you sanded, grain filled 2 coats, sanded, 2 coats of sanding sealer with 320 between the coats. If I want to stain, does that come after the sealer and does the sealer final coat need sanding? Then stain (water or oil?), then clear coat with layers and layers of nitro. Will that recipe work?
I applied dye and then sanding sealer. Looks like some bubbles. Would you now still add a couple more coats of sealer and them poly and then sand?
I would not spray more of anything over bubbles, you should get rid of them first
Hey guys, slightly related question: If I do have a contoured single cutaway body, like a Les Paul Standard, can I apply a veneer top to it? Or do you want to glue the top on before you contour it?
I like the tip on sealing in the shielding paint.
There are lots of ways to do it and they all work well if you are jigged up correctly. Having said that, I always like to do veneer work while everything is still a square. Of course, that is tricky on contoured bodies .
I know it’s an old thread but I did a kit guitar and stained it. Colors came out perfect and looks amazing. Issue is I did not use grain filler and all that grain shows through. Don’t want to do over at this time but starting another project. Can someone give me exact steps on dying a guitar.
I.e. sand down with 220
-apply filer
-dye.
What’s the exact order?
Thanks in advance
I guess I'm not following you here.
Stains and dyes are not opaque, therefore, you will always SEE the grain.
If you are looking for a non-see-through finish you will need to use paint... preferably over a sealer coat followed by a clear coat. Now, if you are talking about FEELING the grain... I cannot with any certainty tell you that grain filler will work, you will need to contact the manufacturer. You could simply keep applying clear until you bury the tactile feel of the grain. That might work for a while but will, probably, eventually, sink in.
Let me tell you what... finishing is the hardest part to get right. Keep working at it and you will get it to match the image in your mind.
I have the same issue with aqua coat . It works but I can never get cloudy free. I went back to just tons of sealer and lacquer. But I’m sure with proper technique it would be fine. But I could never master it.
I think the second coat was too much
There's no spraying in the paint booth!
Aqua Coat grain filler is great. Their other spray clear coats r not really ideal for luthiers use.
3:04 starts here
Can it be applied with sandpaper ?
I don't know, please consult the manufacturer for product details
Are you guys still using Aquacoat? I've had some hits and some misses (maybe operator error, as you say). In the cases where it doesn't work, the problem is generally inconsistent appearance of the surface on a transparent finish. (On opaque, it would not matter).
We no longer use it
I would call that a fail. If it isn’t easy and you botch a guitar (the finishing step is where this mostly happens in my experience) it’s not for me. You should see if you can fix what happened and continue. Maybe sand down and try again. Maybe then I would consider this a good product. I would run a trial on something other than a guitar then see if/where it can be improved or not to use it again. I have built a couple guitars that had beautiful wood just to loose them to a painted surface because of things like this.
Great site! Keep up the good work!
Is TT still using this? Also, have you found that the sealer works better -after- the filler? I got the impression that Aqua Coat advocates the reverse, at least with their own sanding sealer.
Please contact Aqua-Coat for details regarding manufactures recommendations.
We strongly urge you to test any product for yourself before using on your projects.
@@TexasToastGuitars Sentiment appreciated. I do as many tests as I can, but there are just too many products out there. Hence the interest in opinions and videos from those with more experience.
BTW, I did contact AquaCoat, and the answer to that question was vague: "It depends" Didn't help much.
@@stringtheoryx that's a bummer my friend l.
For reasons I should really keep confidential I cannot say much more.
There are lots of terrific products and I wish I could test them all.
I'm sure you will land on something that works for you.
I've tried poor filling ukuleles etc with aqua coat. The woods involved were Cedar, Mahogany, Monkey Pod. After which i used minwax fast drying clear satin polyurethane over it as my finish.
Pros: aqua coat applies easy, dries fast and sands easily..... this got me really excited at first.
Cons:
1) the shrinkage after the aqua coat dries is ridiculous making 5 -6 or more coats of it necessary to get that smooth "glass" surface.
2) when i applied the finish, i got that same cloudy/blotchy result which was highly annoying because i had to re-sand everything. of course i thought i sanded off all the aqua coat, but i didn't. so when i reapplied the finish some cloudy spots showed up again. >:(
I have yet to come across someone reviewing aqua coat and showing a finish that is compatible with it that won't give that cloudy/blotchy result. Therefore i will not be using aqua coat anymore and return to using zpoxy epoxy. :(
I've tried this stuff on a white limba build. I end up sanding it back off.
Sorry it didn't work out
@@TexasToastGuitars Ah, it was probably operator error, I ended up with a pinkish hue, and some splotches, not unlike your guitar body after the sealer.
I wish they would make a smaller can of it, i just need a bit, but i dont wanna spend 30 bucks on a whole can when i probably only need 5 bucks worth lol.
Sorry man
Shouldn't you be using a fabric or something like it to rub the aqua coat instead of your gloves? Maybe a buffer pad?
Maybe
@@SweetPablo972 I'm saying that because I've never seen raw wood finishing done by rubbing with your hands, especially when it's a wax. Would you wax your car using your hands?
semper fi! usmc 1996-2000 Beaufort
Oorah!
First body is Sapele?
African Mahogany
@@TexasToastGuitars oh well, 'close enough' mahogany then ;-)
👍
"Whaaaaa-ooo-whaaaa-hooo" ~ Slim Pickens
Awesome movie
.25 speed if you want to hear what they say in the fast forward part.
HAHAHA
I'd stick with using sanding sealer dries fast and sands extremely quick...
It's good stuff
@@TexasToastGuitars Well I guess It won't hurt to try some...
Don't Bogart that tub, Wally.. man thats strong ..
Wally?
I am a big fan of aquacoat, I only use water borne finishes. My wife threatened to leave me if I keep spraying automotive paint in the house
Smart move. About 10yrs ago I lost 3 friends to cancer. The one thing they had in common was they all shot a shit ton of lacquer. You have a smart wife
PRS uses grain filler on their guitars.
I say the same thing about my wife's face.
Ouch
🤣🤣 Harsh!
They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you be holding her right, she doesn’t look so bad. Lol
@@j-mo2453 😆
Lowered expectations make her a lot more attractive. Lol
“Not in the instructions on the can”... How do you open your beer? There’s no instructions!! Reminds me of that old joke about drinking from this side and not that side!! Lol Have a good day!
Some people couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were on the heel
Hi I like to see you stain with purple stain thanks John Collins
It's not wax on wax off.
It's rubbed in until it don't rub no more .
You need to leave a film behind and then drag it with burlap . (Cross grain)
Wash coat before filler .
Prep sand to 150 no more .
Sanding Sealer is NOT for build !
That's why it's called sanding sealer !
P.S. 40 years experience finishing .
10+ million dollar homes ✓
3+ million dollar room that the 500k piano is placed ✓
500k piano ✓
1.7 billion dollar casino ✓ ✓✓✓
Your resume would be even more impressive if you got the Karate Kid reference...
@@TexasToastGuitars I did that's why I lead with it .
If you add a little dye to filler it helps you sand it back, gives you a better visual. Will give you a little more contrast on pores as well. You got great videos because you 'do' as much as you talk... enuff bull$hit man. Sometimes the doing is way more important than the talking.
Great idea!
Thumbs up for your video, but I am not impressed by that filler.
You and me both...
We are actually trying a new pore filter now. I should probably take this video down
@@TexasToastGuitars I wouldn't -- better to just put a big disclaimer at the top of the description box, eventually with a link to whatever vid you make on your current filler.
Just super glad I saw this comment!
Oh no...you read the instructions? I changed my mind! You not a man 🤐
I hear ya
@@TexasToastGuitars , howzyamomanem? 🤐
Look at that! An Evil Skull logo and a cowardly snowflake introductory warning.