Fixing ANNOYING Gibson Headstock Problem
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- Опубликовано: 19 май 2023
- There's a solution to 3-a-side headstock tuning issues, show that G string who's boss!
String Butler - thmn.to/thocf/f854kgwtj2
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I have 3 Les Pauls and each has a String Butler. They are amazing. They work so damn well. Once my guitar is warmed up, it does not go out tune at all.
Side note, you can also mount them on the middle string posts and invert the string butler. It helps with thicker strings for dropped tunings.
Gibson could easily place the tuners in an arrow formation while retaining the same headstock shape by using longer tuning pegs, but that would mean to them modifying the "classic" shape of their guitars. Maybe they should do a "modern" series that actually employed modern features such as contour cuts, neck volute, satin finish necks and those better placed tuners.
Now that they've spent a couple of years re-establishing their catalogue of classic instruments, that's exactly the approach I believe they should take.
Keep offering the stuff everyone already knows just the way we remember it, but also have a line of modern variations that take into account the design improvements that have been made over the last half century.
An ideal opportunity to rethink their headstocks, construction, colour options, and feature sets. Let's hope the new CEO is leading the company in that direction rather than expending efforts aggressively pursuing legal action against any builder with a single cut design.
@@ScienceofLoud Best we can do is a re-issue of the Greeney re-issue
@@ScienceofLoud PRS and Kiesel have the best 3+3 headstock designs for keeping that semi-vintage vibe with total modern mechanical sensibilities. Kiesel has a perfect straight pull, too (PRS still has a very slight angle, and Kiesel's is just a better reworking of it).
Now, would the big Not-CS Guitars design String Butler fit on a Dean headstock? Would definitely make my mod project Z stay in tune a bit better...
@Kylora It was one of these oversized Bulters I purchased for my Flying V initially and the Dean headstock is that taken to the extreme. I think this should fit the Dean: thmn.to/thoprod/456798?offid=1&affid=367
They did that in the 90s. Look up Gibson ES 346
I still care about the bits at the end 😂😂
I do too
I do too (2)
I do too (3)
I do too (4)
I do too (5)
For a long time I tried to avoid the Gibson style headstock, but I got an old 2003 Epiphone Les Paul Special II late last year. I stripped the finish off the whole neck, replaced the pots, switch, and output jack, added a pickguard, swapped out the bridge with a better one I had taken off another guitar, put on Gotoh locking tuners, and a Graph Tech TUSQ nut. Even with the unstable, thin neck that will bend if you breath on it, it somehow stays in tune in dropped C or C# with 10 gauge strings. I did have it set up by the local luthier, so that could have helped, but there is no binding in the TUSQ nut, it's crazy how stable the tuning is.
The crispy bark this thing has at 3:18 is phenomenal!
Similar to 'still game', We LIVE for the bit at the end.
I've had a string butler on my one Gibson for quite a while and I love it! More of a PRS man and used to it's tuning stability, there's something about the Gibson sound which I love, so that is a great way to enjoy the Gibson experience without being so frustrated at the tuning issues that my swear jar could solve world hunger.
That’s a cool mod!
But yeah, as a bassist, I long for a Gibson where the only thing wrong with it is the location of the tuners 🤣
Quite an improvement of tuning stability. Nice. If that were my guitar, I'd take things to the next level with some Hipshot locking tuners.
Usually watch your videos on the TV, but fired up the computer box specifically to mention that I still enjoy the bits at the end, and miss the bit at the beginning with your name and sub-line, or whatever it's called; those always make me laugh!
Keep up the great work!
Have to say, you videos come just at the right time,
All the time, any time I need it.
Thanks that was a pleasant surprise.
definitely a good reason to show it off, especially since the repair you did to it is almost invisible. well done :)
Cool! Installed the String Butler on a couple of guitars and it always helped to minimize the tuning problems. Still prefer a Telecaster Headstock for tuning stability though 😅
I have one installed on my Epiphone Moderne
Its the one with the futura headstock instead of the gumby one.
Does a very good job.
Thinking of putting one on all my Ibanez AR guitars.
They have similar although less pronounced tuning issues
Hey man
So I have found success when setting up 24 3/4 inch scale length guitars with setting the G string intonation just slightly flat. It was a tip given to me from a guy who has been setting up instruments for people for years. You might have to flip the bridge saddle on the G to do that on the SG as it looks to be almost at the end of its travel.
Theory being... on a shorter scale instrument, especially with 9s or 10s, it's very easy to over bend the third string even just playing a regular bar chord. On E string root chords, that's your major third. Which sounds HORRIBLE if it gets sharp! And it's a 5th on A string root chords, not as noticeable but still bothersome.
That angle change at the head stock will definitely improve tuning stability. But the intonation adjustment should make regular playing more enjoyable with or without the butler.
Hey, killer repair on the SG by the way! I don't think I could have done that repair as well as you did, at least the cosmetic aspects. It came out really great.
Actually it's an octave on the 5th string root chords. I'm sure someone will point that out if I don't. 😜
In my defense I had just woken up when I wrote the original comment haha
Does it create any added tension in the common headstock break area, making them even more susceptible to breaks? just curious!
I have a string butler for my Hamer special which had the same problem. No more! Great product.
I've had one of these on my Gibson SG for a few years and definitely helps tuning stability vs w/o it.
I have one on my gretsch G2622T. Even with heavy use of the bigsby, my guitar stays in tune. Definitely getting one for my Epiphone riviera once I change the tuners.
I have one of these, and it works great. They are basically vertical roller trees. There are like 3 of them: make sure you get the right one. My Epi LP uses a V3.
String Butler, roller bridge, and a Graph tech nut. Works a treat.
You can also mount a Fender staple string tree in the top hole of the truss rod cover. You'll need to curl the tips to positively retain the string. That way, the D and G pull straight. Most guitarists have some laying around. I do.
I also do this. And while I haven't tried it I feel a Graphtech string tree would work better than the metal Fender style tree. The lateral tension can definitely bind on metal.
@@GitShiddy That looks like it'll work with a little attention to the groove to retain the string pulling off-axis. I'm halfway through an SG project and will try one out on it.
Well F*ck me... That's a pretty good idea!
Glad l thought of that.... Lol
@@GitShiddy I have been using a graph tech for years for this very purpose because the Fender style wouldn't retain the strings very well. The graph tech works great. Never had a problem.
Great Scots think alike. I just popped the string butler that had been in my drawer on my Ibanez AR reissue yesterday. Staying in tune so far and better than the last 6 years
I saw somewhere that string direction at left and right after nut slot is not as big problem as generally thought, if you look at this from 3-dimensional perspective. It is the same bend as string directed down. Nut slot just need to be directed that way. Any thoughts in this?
would this same string butler work on an Orville SG?
2:35 - Hold the phone, that's Green Day's All the Time! I did not expect that!
I just KNEW I recognised that. Cheers for pointing it out, because it would've bugged me for days!
question! would this work on a B.C. Rich headstock? (Kerry King Metal Master Warlock - pretty much the one you modded for extreme metal)
HOLY SHIT -- Dude, P90s through an HM-2 sounds fucking GNARLY!
I have an epiphone sg with a string butler, graph tech nut which was slotted by a luthier, gotoh bridge and saddles, and hipshot locking tuners. It stays in tune for pretty long sessions. I want to redo the electronics and put some seymour duncans in it, I like it more than any gibson I've played cause it's mine.
Yes! I always wait for the little bits!
The end bits are actually my favourite part and I'm sad when they're missing. :D
The other thing the String Butler does which impacts tuning stability at the nut is soften the break angle of the strings over the nut, so reducing downward pressure.
Yes, I like the silly little bits at the end 😃 👍 🤘
You can also slant the slots. I figured that's what you would have done 🤷 a few strokes with Music Nomad nut files and it's ready to go. I'm sure you could use the StewMac files, also.
Are these one size fits all? cause i see a few different versions
I had come up with that same basic idea myself- I used metal posts with the round hoops that are at the end of any guitar string as rollers, in same type of configuration so that the strings go over the nut at not such a sharp angle. It worked wonders. I thought Gibsons just could not stay in tune.
uncanny, I was recommending a String Butler to a Les Paul player not hours ago, when he complained about D and G string tuning stability (on a gorgeous goldtop, no less)!! as soon as I saw the title of this video I knew what it was going to be about!
I love the silly bits at the end! They're fun!
I love the String Butlers, have them on several guitars.
The silly little bits are a fun addition, increases watchtime to the end I guess 😅
Yes! I always wait for the end shenanigans.
Fantastic, thanks for the reminder about these. Never underestimate the importance of having a Shite Drawer 😆 My FGN Masterfield is possibly my favourite guitar, but because it's based on the old ES style with the 3+3 tuners, the tuning stability is the one thing I'd like to improve. And contrary to the standard Internet Opinions about them and in spite of the, uh, quirky trem system, my CIJ Jazzmaster stays in tune better than pretty much every guitar I own. Go figure.
Rock and roll! And yes, the selly le'l bets at the end are grreeet.
The string butler is a good thing. I have two guitars with 3 a side machine heads. One Les Paul and one Eastman. They both used to be utter bastards for tuning. Since installing the string butlers, I can play a whole set without needing to retune. I put a roller bridge on the Les Paul as well and that has made it even more stable. Tuning is no longer a problem.
There's a solution to 3-a-side headstock tuning issues, show that G string who's boss!
String Butler - thmn.to/thocf/f854kgwtj2
P90 SG Guitars - thmn.to/thocf/3ztesk9tge
Amps and Pedals - thmn.to/thocf/1dxzvl90b2
Flying V modification videos: ruclips.net/p/PLaM1FGKAH5TkcpKcAyK8o9H0NP1nBaoLS
SG Repair & Mod Videos: ruclips.net/p/PLaM1FGKAH5TnYivtqE1bOsAe-k5i-wW26
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"String Bulter" sounds cool, too! 😁 You may increase the tuning stability further by also using a roller bridge (especially with a trem mounted) 🤔
Thanks for catching the typo.
A pivoting Jazzmaster style bridge might be an even better solution that roller saddles. I've noticed the vibrola has a tendency to push the whole bridge on its posts rather than allow the strings to move across the graphtech saddles, so keeping the string on the same contact point and making it easier for the bridge to pivot would likely optimise returning to the original rest position most often.
@@ScienceofLoud I don't like that Jazzmaster style bridges use those threaded string saddles... but you could use the pretty similar Mustang bridge which has single-notched saddles. Or try a Mastery... 🤔
I have a Les Paul that was plagued with tuning issues. Even a couple of light strums would knock it out of tune. An online community (*cough*TGP*cough*) gave me such great advice like “My Les Paul never goes out of tune” and “You need wrap your strings better”.
I put a String Butler on it and it helped a lot. Then I put a Zer0Glide nut on and it’s finally playable. Strangely, my SG doesn’t seem to need either.
Just a thought; I haven't tested this hypothesis. A £3 roller string tree from Temu or the like mounted to the apex screw hole of the truss rod cover could do a similar job for a fraction of the price(?). I wouldn't use it on a Gibson but on a Harley Benton...
Out of my 9 Gibsons only one Les Paul had tuning issues. And I bend the hell out of the strings.
I put one of these (and a new nut) on a friend's Les Paul and it works. Totally worth it.
my luthier warned me of these string butlers when i took it in to him, said they essentially don't work if you already have a correct nut and it adds additional points of friction to mess with tuning stability. i decided to put it on anyways and have been very happy with it since. i can gilmour bend that brick in the wall solo all day and will not even slightly go out of tune
....i did also replace the nut with a graph tech black tusq xl in that same luthier visit, however. so if the butler is a redundancy at that point, so be it. i have rock solid tuning now. but it does complement the looks of my lp
Should have listened to your luthier.
Don't know why exactly but I really enjoyed the noodling around on this one.
I’ve been using them for years, a great peace of kit
Once you're at it, give it a roller bridge as well to elimiate the other point of string binding in the system.
Please do a video on schecter sustainiac pickups
Couldnt you also cut the nut slots at an angle, pointing more towards the tuners? That would help break and sharp angle
No it wouldn't. Even if the slot was aligned to the angle of the string after it enters the nut, there would still be a hard bend at the nut's front edge.
The problem is not that the string and the slot don't align, the problem is that the string changes direction in the slot to begin with.
This is so shallow, but I wish they'd do a transparent acrylic version of the headstock diamond on customs would still show lol.
You mean like this one: thmn.to/thoprod/450996?offid=1&affid=367
Please keep the end silly bits, they are kernels of gold!
I fixed my Strat copy going out of tune with divebombs, by having a nut that's a tiny bit narrower than stock. It rocks back and forth with the strings.
I thought, for sure, from the thumbnail pic, that you would be fixing a headstock break! So there are more reasons not to get a guitar with a gibson style headstock. I like the strat- style guitars I have with gibson style humbucker configurations anyway.
I'd love the opportunity to repair a headstock break. I'm sure it will happen sooner or later.
@@ScienceofLoud You take much better care of your guitars, though accidents do happen!
A poor man's version of this mod is to use a Strat style string tree mounted at the top hole of the truss rod cover (on top of the cover). You can even use a GraphTech one which is low friction and, being in black, will look stealthier than the regular chrome ones.
2:35 That Green Day song is one of my gauges for dialing in a nice and crispy 70s Marshall tone.
Appreciate a good deep cut from Nimrod.
@@BakerGlare Their best record!
I’ve got one of those p90 Gibson lespaul special tribute guitars . It’s got a maple neck instead of mahogany and heavy as balls . But it hardly ever goes out of tune . I’ve picked it up after it sat in the rack for a couple of weeks and it’s still in tune . Fantastic guitar for like £900 just heavy lol
Would an Epiphone Les Paul benefit from a string butler or are they not needed?
If you are experiencing tuning issues then it's one of the many things you could try to address it.
I think I'll try it on my FGN Flame Expert...good already but could be better too.
I could bend behind the nut with this, too!
I like the silly little bits at the end
Yes, I want more bits.
I usually hate any guitar gadget as if they do solve the problem they create some other weirdness but I've had one of these on my LP for years now and it's fantastic. I do find it also helps to have the string at the top of the wind on the post as it reduces the break angle over the nut too. I just wrap my G and D this way.
Love how you slipped in All The Time by Green Day in here ❤
I was just coming down to the comments to write something similar lol
Was talking with someone ladt week about the tuning instability of LP guitars. When the world's formost "master guirarist" butted in. According to him his three LPs ALWAYS stayed in tune perfectly. We made sure to let him know just how special he was.
There are a few of those guys in the comments here already
Yep!
Some early Gibsons used the Snakehead headstock design, which reduces string pinching at the nut, and looks much better. Some companies, like Martin, persist in using a Paddle shaped headstock. Another bad design that can even cause the strings behind the nut to rattle against each other. Some guitars still sound sound despite their design flaws, but not because of them.
I have 2 solutions for this... I use Sprezals, the ONLY tuners Sting Butler doesn't work with..) first was a brass bar that id cut slots into to hold the strings straight, easier to show than tell, but that was problematic. as it floated if one string went out the tension changed and put others out. Then I "adapted" (Bent a bit deeper) a Fender-style string tree, screwed it into the top hole for the truss rod cover, and that's been perfect for years now. oddly the Epiphones don't need it, just the stupid Les Pauls.
I love my string butlers but the Epiphone Casino is not having it with its machine heads being stamped in no hex nut so disappointing!!!
Damnit thanks for this video I now want an SG again ( been proper gassing for one for weeks)
I have one on my LP and it works awesome
I just use a regular Strat style string tree and use the top truss rod cover’s screw.
😍 the end bit
Yes, I always look out for the silly-little-bit-at-the-end.
I must've gotten really lucky because my Les Paul stays in tune like a champ. It also has a nylon nut that's cut oddly shallow, to the point where the strings sort of look like they're just resting on it. Maybe that has something to do with it. I have no idea.
@CSGuitars does it improve the neck dive tho? :p
That's what the Vibrola is for.
Neck dive on SGs only became an issue when people started removing the vibrola systems and replacing them with stoptails. The original design balances perfectly.
@@ScienceofLoud "All we need to do to balance this is by adding a heavy chunk of metal to this side... and perfect."
I think the point you're missing is that the heavy chunk of metal wasn't an addition. It was part of the original design of the SG (then a replacement for the LP) which was to create a Gibson version of the Stratocaster. A vibrato system was what Gibson didn't have and what all the players at the time were buying Fender for - the SG was designed around it. To be a lightweight, contoured, fast playing, double cut, vibrato equipped guitar made to Gibson's then quality standards. Not mass produced and screwed together like their rival. The vibrola was a huge selling point at launch.
Players ended up not liking the Vibrola and began removing them, unbalancing the instrument. Gibson then stopped putting them on the guitars because people were just removing them anyway, but never addressed how this would affect the balance of the instrument. So we get this pervasive impression that SGs are badly designed due to being neck heavy, but the facts are if you remove an essential part of a balanced design and never correct for it, then you'll end up with an unbalanced product.
@@sagittated he's actually right. Look it up.
@@hunybadgerbill I have no doubt he's right. Colin is a trustworthy source.
I like the funny little bits at the end...
Genius invention! Love mine
That Moderne was actually made in the fifties but was so ugly that no one wanted them. These guitars were never sold to the public nor did they go past the prototype stage even after being shown at a NAMM show. So they stayed in storage and undisclosed to the general public until the nineteen eighties when it was revived but with a different headstock shape. This was later reissued with the original headstock shape but only in a limited release. Most people break the neck off their Gibson guitars and reglue them. This usually makes them stronger (or at least in theory) and you don't have to worry about it again. However that may be you can't fix the tuning instability problem because of the break angle of the headstock.
Sold my LP custom as it always went out of tune, hard to believe I know. Made my own guitar with straight headstock, now I play not endlessly tune.
Amazing video 👏
I solved this problem, by selling all my gibsons. You kick ass though ! Rock on
I have 2 LP's and have fitted string butlers to them, they are well worth the money.
Is the lateral angle *really* more of a problem than the break angle..?
Yes, because you've got the string altering its direction in two axis rather than one.
You've also got to acknowledge the width of the slot and how the string is contained on two sides laterally, whereas it only breaks over a single edge as it pitches down toward the tuner. Binding is almost always a result of the slot width - it occurs when the slots are too deep, too narrow, or when there is a lateral deviation.
The ideal nut contacts the string at only a single point. The closer we can get to that situation the less chance the string has of binding.
GOTTA have the silly bits at the end!😊
it's a shame there's no direct a/b shots between the string butler before and after, because y'know i think i hear it staying pretty much in tune but i have no idea what im supposed to be comparing it against in this case. everyone sounds in tune when nobody else is playing
This is just a video that was probably shat out during a time where he's not having any ideas.
Played Les Pauls for literally thousands of gigs and never had tuning problems, have the nut cut properly, use a lubricant and learn how to restring your guitar correctly, solid as anything else without a locking system.
I think most people having tuning slipping on the "D" and "G" strings aren't doing enough winds when restringing.
all you need is a good graphite nut like graphtech,no need for extra string guides.ive used them on jackson style headstocks and a hammer with 3+3
The guitar in the video has a graphtech nut
@@ScienceofLoud it was there before the rollers were installed?if so then either the slots werent wide enough or there's some issue at the bridge.but with that tremelo youd be better off with some locking tuners and roller or grpathech saddles too.
but personally i didnt like the change in tone graptech saddles made to my tuneomatic guitar
My dude, the issue is the strings didn't move through the nut in a straight line.
Locking tuners will do nothing, widening the slots will cause all sorts of issues, the bridge is also graphtech.
The nut is correct, the string alignment was not.
@@ScienceofLoud well if its staying in tune now then fine but i find it odd since ive had plenty of guitars with anything but straight string alignment through the nut and they stayed in tune fine.even on so called straight string pull guitars the stings arent truely going straight through since there's a downwards angle from the nut to the headstock otherwise the strings would rattle.
edit:also i dont know how far that trem can lower the pitch on the strings if it cant go far then it might hold with regular tuners but if you can dive bomb the effect of the windings loosening up will always be a problem,if for example you tried to reuse old strings they would act as if they still need to stretch out when you put them back on the guitar but all it really is is the windings settling in again on the tuner.
Don't need a string butler. Just put the old T type string trees of strats in the upper truss rod cover screw hole. Does the same thing
1:52 - sounds like something out of Friday Night Lights
wow man your V looks awesome
Got a big smile on my face when you played All The Time by Green Day.
I'll have a lot more Green Day coming pretty soon
Yes Colin - we do care about the silly little bits at the end!
I still think the strings will catch on the string butler,even though they supposedly roll,but it's probably better than not using the string butler
I put one on my D'angelico and it's magical
I love the silly little bits at the end.