Guitar Headstock Rant - Why Les Pauls Don't Stay in Tune!
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- Well, I'm too mellow to actually rant, but if your Gibson goes out of tune after a few 3rd string bends, then this video is for you!
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I solved my LP tuning problems by not being able to afford one
I know it's not comparable, but I'm getting an esp 1000 with an evertune bridge and passive Seymour Duncan pickups for $850. It won't sound like a Les, but it'll be more versatile and literally NEVER go out of tune for a third of the price.
I am getting a Epiphone Les Paul Jr, & a Epiphone Les Paul Special GT(made in Indonesia). They hold tune better than the Gibson's with Gibson deluxe tuners.
@@alexmurphy5289 There are Gibson LPs for less than 2k bucks.
That's a real shame. Hopefully you will win the lottery so you can buy a severely overpriced 1950s technology prehistoric guitar with an uncontoured body that pokes you in the ribs and forearm. Everybody is doing it so it must be good!!! :P
I would 100% get an LP studio over an esp... you’ll save $50 and have an American made Les Paul.....
Never had tuning problems on my Gibsons.
-Lube the nut with graphite
-tune to pitch, bend strings, retune to pitch if needed.
-play
Same. I own 7 Gibsons and 0 issues with all of them.
I’ve never had issues with my LP coming out of tune, in fact, last night I played for like an hour and a half at a youth conference (which is fairly aggressive playing, as those who have been to a youth conference will know) and I was 100% in tune at the end
Ditto, also, wrapping around post definitely helps with stability.
I had a 2010 50’s traditional and I couldn’t keep it in tune, sold it, turned around a few months later and bought another one and I’ve had zero issues.
I have 2 studios,one 2012 and one 2014. Silverburst 2012,alpine white with maple neck 14. Haven't had an issue with either one.
Nah, let's not evolve the Les Paul by solving real issues. Let's bankrupt the company by trying to turn it into an iPod.
LOL!
I thought they had pitch to help tuning and intonation?
Might be so but That's the theory! The reality is : lack of know how! Gibson (and maybe less Fender) simply can not make better quality instruments nowadays because they don't have the skilled people any more to do so. There are also fenders who have tuning issues btw, so neck angle is not that important...
@@pittbrat7963 They push a high production and the workers are not as skilled as they used to be. i had worse problems with my fenders that were hard to resolve
No need to turn it into one, I found one with some horrible water-damage into the wood under the paint and finish... SO after a careful strip-sanding, I added some wood-stabilizer, and inserted a power control and a socket for cell-phones or MP3 Players with a small "door" in the back...
Now instead of tone, selector, or pot'... There's two "dummies" and a power switch. The pickups are "dead" replacements, so I could help out a buddy restoring a vintage LP from the 60's... And you can run an MP3 through the amp. The "strings" are painted on, since I won't be playing it anyway... AND the hardware is only for looks until someone needs or wants it more than I do...
...but at least it never has tuning issues! ;o)
Headless guitars: No headstock problems.
But you need it there to keep you hand from flying off. Why do you think we helmets on out shlongs?
@@ericb.1384 hahaha if you're using your guitar to get laid, you're not getting laid😂
formanbradley you don’t even get any head, either.
I thought Gibson was a headless guitar? 😂
And f'n uuuuuuugly
My $200 telecaster stays in tune like a champ. I'd be so mad if I paid $3000 for a gibson and my $200 guitar stayed in tune better.
Because Leo was smart enough to solve the design problem.
That Gibson headstock angle is like a hockey stick.
If you want a hockey stick guitar look at vintage kramers
I have one of those. 😎
hockey stick headstock? See 12 string fender acoustics. That's literally what it's called
Or vintage Hamers.
Makes me glad I was only able to afford an Epiphone.
one day you may get the real deal??
@@nosbig11 why bother
I have two vintage epiphones and I love them. Both are 30 to 40 years old. Don't forget it's all in the fingers. I prefer a good musician on a 300$ Epiphone rather than a bad musician on a 3000$ Gibson.
I like to buy American, Canadian or Japanese, mostly for resale value, but I got a 'cheap' Epiphone ES-339 for $600CDN delivered, loved it, decided to get the Gibson version, I actually prefer the Epi. The quality is obviously there in the Gibson, but it was more than 3 x the price of the Epi & I still prefer the cheap one. It just plays better.
@@nosbig11 "Real deal" ;)
I blame the guitarists themselves with their obsession with tradition and "vintageness".
Vitor Roma nothing wrong with that, when they invented the wheel didn’t need drastically alter it any more either.
@@MartiniPinball What works, works. But when you have something that clearly begs for improvement, it makes no sense to not want change it because traditional/vintage.
Well said. If they spent more of their time practicing, and less time obsessing over "correct" design, they'd be much better players.
@@MartiniPinball in fact they did drastically change the wheel. Cars now don't have a solid wooden wheel, do they? Instead we have air filled rubber tires on either steel or magnesium aluminum alloy rims. It is like going from a gibson to a prs headstock. Both are a "wheel" but the two are drastically different from each other.
They should rid of their headstock design and have one that doesnt angle the strings
I solved the tuning issues with my Les Paul Classic. I took it to the guitar store near me and sold it. Problem solved.
+Kevin Goodrich 😄
Lol
brian lucore well dude I think this is a false thing going around I have multiple epiphones and they suck I love my gibsons I have a studio and a anaconda and I don’t have any problems. So I would recommend you an older one if you’re looking for a studio
The guitar has led a great life since he split with this dude.
I don't think you ever owned ,,,or could afford any Gibson
just play like lil wayne, you don't have to worry about this kind of stuff
Lil Wayne sucks
Little Lame is more like it. I think I'll be changing my last name now!
Not a fan of his, but he’s rich and you’re likely not lol
I've just listened to a lil Wayne guitar solo. Brilliant. I think he actually managed to create new notes while hitting none of the existing ones
@@ravenjames3873 No he isn't. You must not know anything about guitar, you're really dumb. If you don't know anything about guitar, don't say anything! Lil Wayne is way better than everybody, he puts a lot of soul in his guitar playing. He's really good, way better than Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix or Stevie Ray Vaughan. All those guys suck.
Never had any problems with my LP studio. Had it for 11+ years and I've always loved how it stayed in tune compared to other people's instruments. Took me a while to even notice that this was a common problem.
My LP Studio is the same way. However, my SG was HORRIBLE.
My Gibson LP Special rarely goes out of tune. I generally replace my nuts with bone, as soon as I get a new guitar, but I can't bring myself to do it on this Special. I could only make the tuning stability worse, so it remains with the Corian (I believe) nut.
I recently got an epiphone les paul studio E1 and it has not gone out of tune yet
You guys must not bend much or use heavy strings. Every gibson i've ever played has had D and G string issues to some extent, some more then others. Especially if they had heftier strings. It's quite literally the only thing thats kept me from making the purchase for a long time. I absolutely love their styling. (Although their apparently lacking quality control is what's scared me away in recent years, they used to be THE example of perfect QC, but now you just kinda gotta hope you get one of the good ones it seems)
me too, i think it's a band wagon thing. my 2 lps are fine and i'm mr bendio all day long
I noticed when I dropped my LP and the headstock snapped off it got knocked out of tune pretty bad. Try to avoid this.
Damn most of been so out of tune it like there just stings nothing else
lol
Have you tried unplugging and plugging it back in?
lol!! Condolences
@@losFondos Too funny. 😂
This guy is the most canadian canadian there is.
I've spent most of my life in Canada, and the only people I've ever heard say "aboot" for "about" were either from Newfoundland, or were Americans trying (unsuccessfully, of course) to "imitate Canadians." (In other words, "it ain't necessarily so.")
Lol you've clearly not spent much time in eastern Canada
JamesShore1990 Yeah I didn't know he was Canadian until he said ABOOT. Then I was immediately like ooooh no wonder he's so friendly.
are you saying Americans aren't friendly, because im pretty friendly.
Not hardly. But I heard the word pronounced Aboot commonly in Calgary. The dead give a way is his shirt. The spelling of "Flavour" . That is English not American.
1. Big Bends Nut sauce and/or TUSQ self-lubricating nut. Miraculous.
2. Don't use a ton of winds on non-locking tuners (takes forever for the strings to stretch) or try locking tuners. Several brands have vintage-looking locking tuners now.
3. Lock down the tailpiece and bridge with TonePros or similar units.
It took me a couple of years to arrive at this :( Hopefully, this will shed some light and save others the headache.
#2 exactly
No 2. For years I've been doing it wrong!! I always put a load on thinking the more wrap the more secure, I will try this out.
"Self-lubricating nut" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
(What is wrong wih me...)
Oh I posted a pic of the packaging to Facebook for a few laughs:)
Nut sauce... definitely.
It's cool how calm you always are. When I saw "Rant" I was not expecting this calm, informed video. Lol
I think Brian Mays solution of rollers at the bridge and nut combined with a pointed headstock is the best solution I’ve seen. Strings go straight through, short distance pull. Looks ideal.
Why did my eyes water when he said "binding in the nut"?
excidedous Hey. I didn't come here to be insulted. I go to work for that.
There`s much binding in the marsh !!.
I've found that my nuts get too cold and moist when bound and left in marshy conditions.
lol
Mandolinic i dont know , maybe you are an idiot
As a owner of a PRS SE Santanta II, I feel a huge relief when you came to point with PRS designed.
Very informative video, Darrell. Nice job! Thanks.
Every Les Paul, SG, 335 and Explorer I've ever owned over the last 41 years has always stayed in tune. No nut sauce or graphite needed, i never used any of that stuff. Most of the time people bring the stop tailpiece too close to the body. When you have the tailpiece too low your strings will first hit the bridge then hit the bridge saddle. So your strings are getting hung up on the bridge it self. What works for me is raising the height of the stop tailpiece to just hit and come across the bridge saddle. Okay if your stop tail piece is to high up now lower the stop tail piece and do a wrap around with all six strings coming over the stop tailpiece. Then make the final adjustments to insure the string is coming over the bridge saddle without touching the bridge itself. And logically check to see if the strings are getting hung up in the nut. If they are run a piece of wet and dry sandpaper very carefully through the string slots to get rid of any problems. And change you're strings regularly. I am gigging fairly often, 3 to 5 times a week so what ever guitars I'm bring with me are at the most two gigs old then I change my strings. I can hear the difference and I dont like the sound or feel of strings that aren't new. Plus if you buy strings in bulk you can get them much cheaper. And you have to stretch the hell outta the strings several times for your guitar to stay in tune. I also found out the hard way that if you are using a Floyd Rose or any kinda floating bridge you should use the same strings made by the same manufacturer. I've always used Ernie Ball or D'addario strings. I had one of my old early 80's Jackson soloist set up with Ernie ball 9 to 42 set on the guitar. Then when i changed my strings and put on D'Addario 9 to 42. Turned out that the Floyd rose went from being level to being physically pulled forward outta level relatively to the Jackson's flat top. Which raised my action by a light eighth of an inch. Just enough to be unplayable.
Stay well everyone and happy pickin' and grinnin'
That's amazing, because in 50 something years I have never owned a guitar by any maker that has stayed in tune. Temp changes, humidity changes, string stretch, and micro dirt and skin collecting on the strings has affected tuning on my guitars. Improperly cut nuts are usually the reason most people bring in guitars to the shop for having tuning problems (easy to fix with a good file set), an angled headstock compounds the that problem.
I know right? I guess some stay in tune some don't?
Yeah one thing I learned About the many many guitars I've played in the last 50 years a tuner should be kept very handy!
Joe D Joe D nothing wrong with a top wrap my sg’s intonation is spot on with it but couldn’t hold anything before. Slinkier feel with the tone of 10s is amazing, hands down the best feeling guitar I own. And my back is grateful too.
But the point is like others have said all guitars are different. My lp will stay in tune for weeks and she doesn’t even mind being tuned down to eb. Intonation stays nearly spot on.
Until I bend the g that is.. which is why I solo at the end of songs with her or try to bend another string if I really have to. The way I see it is that’s the price to pay for a full resonating tone.
Personally, I just prefer a bad girl that likes to party(sg) over the girl next door(lp)
the lp's little sister loves to party lol
buy the guitar not the brand - too much snobbery i prefer to play a guitar that works and plays
Exactly. All brands have their gems and dogs.
Completely agree. Les Pauls are still around because they make people think they are a Rockstar form the late 60s and 70s. My first guitar was a Les Paul copy (felt and played like every authentic Les Paul l I ever held). I HATED that thing, bulky, uncomfortable,terrible heel design (ARIA pro PE series solved this), and of course the tuning issues. I ended up switching to an SG (which sounded the exact same as my old Les Paul Copy by the way, no stupid "Flame Maple Top Tonewood, and Warm Rich Mahogany mass to facilitate true Marshall/Les Paul tone) HAHA what a crock of shit..... The SG is better (IMO) but still not as ergonomic as say a super strat or some of the PRS guitars out there today. Gibson Les Paul is the Air Jordan of the guitar industry. Bring on the hate, you are only fooling yourself....
Mike nelson im not sure what is so buly about a Les Paul. I have owned about 50 guitars over the yrs if not more and I find the LP very comfortable. Well unless you find it heavy as I have heard alot say but weight don't equal bulky. I find the body style a gem to play over my semi hollow or hollw bodies. Outside of the gibson Lp or epiphone versions the only guitar i found more comfortable was a cheap chinese highland dbl cut way electric or my solo thats strat style but very light basswood with a maple top veneer. Guess its all in our own preference and our strength on holding an extra lb.
exactly
Name brands hold value better if you need to sell
I think the headstock Brian May made for his Red Special is probably one of the best headstock designs in history, and way ahead of it's time, considering when he built that instrument.
It's similar to the PRS in regards to tuner placement, but it's arrow-tip shaped, kinda like in a Flying V.
He used a zero-fret, as well as a roller bridge, which further help with tuning stability. Keeping your strings free to roll over the nut and bridge is, in my mind, the best way to keep in tune.
Flying V is the worst heardstock ever to me lol
Yep, the strings apparently have almost zero friction.
@@fabiostamato2199 Where did you hear that? I've heard only really good things about his range, even if they're stupid expensive and a bit of a niche
That's amazing! I personally own 2 PRS guitars, and never noticed the string angle! Makes sense!
Stretch the strings properly and make sure the nut is cut properly and lubed up if necessary, I have no tuning issues with my Les Pauls.
Totally correct sir!
Amazing, Gibson have only had 65 years to get it right!
William Skinner precisely. and why should anyone pay extra for band-aid fixes, when they have had so long to evolve the design.
@@hypersonicmonkeybrains3418 The have no need to evolve the design.
What he conveniently left out are the advantages to the Gibson design. There is nothing objectively "wrong" with the design, it just prioritizes different things. A greater angle on the headstock creates more pressure on the nut and therefore greater sustain. The tuners are not angled in because it looks idiotic. There is a reason most people prefer the Gibson headstock shape.
@@SoloDallasII This is like saying: I want to lose weight so I will amputate my legs
@@SoloDallasII there is absolutely nothing aboot that headstock angle that increases sustain tone or whatever magic mumbo jumbo you got going on, this is called brain washing. You been told over and over again so many times how changing 1 little thing on your guitar can improve sustain or tone, i say its time to stop believing in this bullsheet wake up and smell the coffee cuz this is a real problem
"Only cowboys stay in tune anyway" -Jimi Hendrix
Didn't he also politely ask his audience to be patient while him and his band tuned up though? So... I think he was just being silly...
@@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342 Only cowboys *stay* in tune. If he had to tune in the middle of a gig, he is failing to stay in tune :P Maybe I just interpreted him differently in the context that if you are doing a lot of bends, you are falling out of tune.
@@rich1051414, Jimi tuned in mid-song... yeah, he was that bad ass....
Darrell (if I may address you by your first name), I just started watching your videos a week ago. I have now subscribed to your channel. I must say I am really impressed with your combination of "technical" information, complete with sound (pun intended) reasons why you like certain things about the guitars and what you don't like. And you sure can play! All in all a format I really like, personally. I do not play guitar myself but have gotten a bug to learn how about a month ago. I am, however, a long time musician as a drummer (since 1974). I am also a retired engineer and research scientist. Keep up the great work. Kind regards, Kevin.
Hi Kevin I'm Bobby, sometimes you will come across a RUclips video that will definitely try to make other guitar look bad just because that person is trying to promote a musical instrument such as this video, the only real way to find out the truth is that you might end up doing it yourself and I may be different from you but I'm the type of person who doesn't believe everything he hears, reads or sees, you can read my post on this topic, it's like I said I been playing so many types of guitars for over 35 years and I have had several that was total junk and some that plays like a dream, including, Jackson, Ibanez, fender, Paul Reed Smith, Gibson les Paul, epiphone, squire and ect....
Hi Kevin, I am a follower of Darrell, but in this case don't have any sense this comment. The shape of the Les Pauls are the most old spanish guitar design.... do you think that for centuries the guitar player... (not only rockers) had problems with this shape to keep the guitar in tune.... I don't think so... looks a problem of lack of knowledge
I worked as a roadie in the 70's and saw a few accidental headstock breaks, as far as I remember(it was the 70's,so.) they were largely Gibbos and Epis.We were terrible roadies,all unemployed muzos, so the band could get us to do the soundcheck for them. Love your vids bredrin'.Thank you.
Also because they are heavy
Let me know if you have a LP and how your experience has been - good or bad :)
Have a 2015 LP Standard (Honeyburst) with the brass nut and g-force. G string is an issue, will try a wound g string next as Ive heard this can improve the situation. Other strings stay in tune pretty good. Yours is my favourite guitar channel right now! You deserve way more subscribers sir!
+Johannes Rudolph Nice LP!
Thanks, I'm glad you are enjoying the channel :)
It doesnt fix the angle, but its a little solution to get tuning stability www.kickstarter.com/projects/98508740/the-string-butler-a-new-guitar-hardware?lang=de
interesting
Darrell, didn't Gibson add structure to the headstock to the new 2016 range? i heard about it in one video but i can't be sure..
The most peaceful and calmest rant I have ever seen XD Good video though, I have an explorer limited edition Korina by Vintage and it does have tuning issues.. not a lot but sometimes on the high E
So happy I found your channel! Thank you Darrell
I have often wondered why Gibson doesn't use the flying vee headstock on more guitars? It has a much straighter string pull and is elegant and not too large!
Because it only looks good on that guitar, it would look ugly as sin on any other guitar.
😂😂😂
The Flying V headstock looks good on the Billy Gibbons SG's imo 👍
I've owned a half dozen Gibsons and a half dozen Epis and none of them had tuning issues. Lube the nut, stretch the strings and lube the saddles. If the nut pings get a tech to file it out. Also never broke a headstock.
popped a couple,only on gibsons though
Well said! I've a few Gibsons, and ZERO tuning problems! As for breaking the headstock, I can tell you how that happens 100% of the time: some FOOL left their instrument in a stand, and it fell backward onto the floor. I'm sorry, but the "design flaw" here is not with the guitar but with those TREACHEROUS STANDS! That's why I will NEVER own one! There's only TWO places you'll find one of my guitars; in my hands, or IN IT'S CASE!
flurng, some extra caution may prevent a Gibson headstock breaking, but the design is incredibly flawed. A simple volute on the back would make the area behind the nut significantly stronger and not negatively impact playability at all. Some simple wood working knowledge goes a long way, but sometimes it feels like the guys at Gibson skipped school on the shop class days.
Howdy Gang - just got a notification of a response to my post by a RUclipsr called; Vivi2372For some reason, his response is not showing up when I search the comments, but in any case, Vivi2372 says;
"Bolt on necks aren't design flaws if they're done right (which they probably
aren't on every strat because hi there mass production). There should
be zero difference in tuning stability with a set neck, and a well made
bolt on will tend to actually have better sustain believe it or not.
And it's less like saying "I left my toddler on the highway and it was hit
by a car," and more like saying "my toddler was crawling on the floor,
bumped their head on the coffee table and now their brains are
everywhere..."
First off, I must admit, you're correct that, PROVIDED your bolt-on neck gives the performance one would expect for your instrument (tuning stability, sustain), then it is no more a "design-flaw" than Gibson's headstock angle. I'm sure there are countless well-made instruments with bolt-on necks, which perform flawlessly - this has just not been my experience.
And regarding my "toddler" analogy, admittedly, I exaggerated a bit to make a point, however, regardless whether your toddler is doing battle with automobiles or coffee tables, the point is; DON'T LET YOUR "TODDLER" BUMP IT'S HEAD! Assuming one takes proper care of their instruments, this should NEVER be a problem, as evidenced by the countless vintage Gibson instruments floating about with perfectly "healthy" headstocks. And certainly, there are as many, possibly MORE vintage instruments around with headstock damage, but I ask you; did these instruments spontaneously "decide" they were going to break, or were they mis-handled? I'll let you be the judge.
flurng
The reason I went with my toddler analogy is because you can't keep a child from ever getting hurt no matter how careful you are. Maybe you get lucky and they, through some miracle, never bump their head. But most children will bump their head at some point. Just like most people will probably, at some point or another in their gigging lives, have their guitar suffer a similar bump.
Either way, the result of a bump being a small ding or a scratch is expected. The headstock breaking off (ie: the toddlers head exploding) is not something anyone should have to expect or even tolerate.
It's a design flaw. End of story. There is no sonic benefit to having a headstock that weak and no detriment to making it stronger in that area. I could accept a flaw like that if this were 1959 and electric guitars were still fairly new and they didn't have years of use and abuse put on them yet. But it's 2016 now. Gibson knows they're more fragile than any other headstock I've ever encountered and through a combination of them not caring that much and purists having their heads so far up their ass on the vintage stuff, they've never bothered to fix it.
Never had a tuning issue with my 82 custom
The way that some people wind strings is the main issue
Wayne A
And the way they tune. And stretch strings. And set up.
Edward Van Buren exactly
@THE ACOUSTIC CAGE Yeah, for real. These guys in here don't seem to want to accept it just has problems...
Exactly, wind it over-and-under so its locked by it’s own force on the string, plus lube the nut whenever changing the string.
@@hectichive889
I had zero issues so why would I accept a lie?
Great vid. Precise with 0 filler. Thank you
Love you, Darrell!
This is one reason many of us changed to Teles, I did years ago back in the 90s. Not as fancy of a guitar, but as you say, function over flash. Plus you can repair or just try new pots and switches without removing strings. The pure simplicity of the Tele grows on you over time. I've put them in cases and left them alone for a year and come back and they are almost perfectly in tune. Go watch Keith Richards smack a guy on stage with his Tele, and then put it back on and it is still in tune. It is a big deal to lots of us.
I don't think he actually hit him with it, it looks like he swang at the guy who grabbed the guitar, the wrestled with it for a second and he kept running. If he actually made good contact there probably would have been tuning issues (at least). He bailed the guy out of jail that night and is still owed 200 bucks. I can only afford frankenstrats myself..
Right On Dude, I am studying Lutherie and just finished my Art of Guitar Design course and this was exactly some of the material we covered. Now I love my Epiphone Les Paul, Hope to Someday afford a Gibson but you are right that 17 degree angle is the main component of their issues. I can do ten times the amount of string bends on my strat before I even consider checking the tuning, many times I sit down and first thing I always check is my tuning and I rarely make an adjustment on my Strat where as the LP seems to need a little adjustment each top. And PRS does do an excellent job of thinking their guitars through. Paul seems to be very aware of design aspects of his guitars from the interviews I have seen of him. Right On Man!! Good Show Ole Chap!!
Wow, where do you study?
You should also know that increased string tension from the greater angle will increase sustain...
Just get a fender
Never had a problem with my Les Pauls.
The Ernie Ball Music Man headstock design it's simple amazing and holds the tuning like none of the guitars I've ever seen
Great video!! I wasn’t aware of this but now I know.😊
how is it i've been playing gibbys for 40 years and i've never had a problem with tuning???
I've never had a single problem with mine. It's perfect. 1969 Gold Top. One of the reasons Jimmy Page went to Les Pauls was for tuning stability live.
Well, I didn't change the headstock angle, but...I installed good locking tuners, a file narrowed bone nut, roller bridge with locking intonation, and a TP6 tailpiece with fine tuners. It stays in tone incredibly well, but it took some work to get it right.
I just had never thought of that before. Way cool Darrell!!
Damn, Darrell. Could you please be more digressive like most humanoids? ...Just kidding. Always amazed how focused your videos are. I love that you waste zero time in your videos. Keep doing you!
Good information on this issue, thanks.
Excellent video, professor.
Excellent explanation, thanks !
this is the calmest rant I've seen on youtube
If the nut is cut right, there is no issue. I've owned several LPs and not had tuning issues with any of them.
I never had a single issue with any Les Paul's either .
Very good video Darrell
Hi ! one way to reduce the problem is to wrap the D and G string up instead of down on the tuning machine. The angle of the string on the nut will decrease, and the tension too. Putting some lube on the nut helps too. Keep on and thanks a lot for your channel ! Greetings from France .
Another option is to use tuning machines that have longer stems on the tuning knobs so that the headstock can retain the same shape but the shaft that holds the string works its way towards the center of the headstock.
Yep, that would make sense. Much more sense than zero nuts and e tune machines. Maybe just removing the tuners isn't innovative enough for a company that regards itself innovative ;)
This guy's voice is so calming.
Once again Darrell,this is a lesson to remember.thankyou.i have to say that I am looking at my 79 Les Paul deluxe more closely ! Just hope that the volute remains useful.
I never have any trouble with my Les Paul Classic.
I'm an luthier with massive OCD about design and engineering, and I've studied the science of sound as produced by stringed instruments for 3 decades.
String tension at the nut absolutely plays a role in the transfer of vibration from string to body. So does the saddle, the neck material, the truss rod design, the headstock shape and material, and the tuning peg design.
Physical audio wave resonance is affected in slight ways by every factor comprising Amy stringed instrument. Those slight affects can add up and therefore Orville's 17 and 14 degree angles were in pursuit of that desired effect of transmitting more vibration to the body.
Plastic nuts will bind any string sitting in any slot at any angle and cause an undue build up of pressure when you bring it to tune whilst bound. Then, you play the string and the vibration loosens the bind and the string settles and you go flat.
Bone nuts have been the go-to but material in electrics for generations to solve this as the tend to be naturally "slick" and when lubed with graphite, provide a stable rut for the string.
The major issue I find with guitars losing tune is open-tuning machines, bolt neck guitars with poorly-set joints and improper bolt hole pilots in the body, not to mention the shims.
Once you add any tremolo system, you have a whole new conversation.
String trees on teles bind all the time, except the overpriced roller trees as shown in this video.
I've had a 1980 les Paul that's a bastard child of a horrible era at Gibson for quality. That bloke survived car rides in trunks and set out in the cold for days at a time and stayed in tune.
Great tuning machines, bone nut, fresh one every couple years, and a proper setup 4-5 times a year and she's never been a tuning problem.
thank you! that was a tremendously informative read! You seriously rock.
I'm a guitar tech with many years experience also. Thanks for mentioning the truss rod. It's material and installation method is a major factor on tone transmission to the body. That's why an Epiphone ( Or any Asian Gibson copy) will never sound as good as a US made Gibson, no matter how good the rest of the workmanship is, period.
I agree that the nut should be fitted to the strings used. My method when slotting a nut is to cut the slots only deep enough to hold half the depth of the string. This makes break away angle on the G,B, and high E very important to maintain stability and avoid the string popping out. Also buzz prevention.
Plastic, nylon, Formica, fibrous materials wear in such a way as to create burrs, grooves, and other microscopic imperfections so that over time, even a perfectly cut slot will bind the string, regardless of neck angle.
Using materials like bone is advantageous because it wears slower, but more because of the way it wears. Bone used for nuts breaks off and wears essentially into a powder. At the microscopic level they look like little shards, but the particles resulting from wear actually separate from the material and are so fine that it forms a type of slurry which keeps the slot essentially self-lubricated. Also this property leaves no surface anomalies to bind the string.
Most synthetic nut materials when expertly crafted and installed will provide an excellent transition point when new. The material choice will determine wear time and pattern, and thus how long it will be before binding occurs. Some are faster than others.
But in my view binding nuts are far more problematic with tuning issues than headstock angles.
Although it's true that Les Paul's are vulnerable at the truss rod adjustment area of the neck, models that are built with a volute on the back of the neck alleviates some of that risk.
The guitar is an imperfect instrument regardless of design options and every choice made is a compromise toward its advantages over its detractions. All that to say that it's personal choice.
If you want to have a les Paul with a zero angle or 10degree headstock, I suggest you have a local custom builder build one to spec for you. It'll cost about the same as a custom Gibson, but with all your own specs.
Gibson is far too traditional and their customers will likely not buy enough to justify a publicly accessible line with 10- degree headstock. My opinion, though. Who knows.
ok so you can give me a tip what to do ? i got a lp traditional 2015 like the video except after problems gibson replaced my zero nut from brass to titanium . still have problems , it tunes fine but stays in tune max 10 min of playing .
wasn't me well, sir, It's hard to diagnose your issue without more information.
Typically speaking, a hard metal nut won't cause binding of strings, and since you've now had 2 of them, I suspect that the nut is not the issue at all.
The overall design of the les paul lends toward BETTER hold of tune. Due to material choice, neck joint design, and certain tuning machines.
If your guitar is properly set up for the gauge strings that you are using, including proper tension on the truss rod, appropriate neck relief, pickup height at factory spec, and you've strung the cap stands correctly, the titanium nut should be a non-factor in your tuning woes.
That being said, try putting some gun oil on the nut. Nowhere else, mind you.
hey Darrell, would you check out a Heritage H150 version of the les paul, curious how it plays and if the headstock solves the tuning issues. Keep up the good work!
Got a cherry burst used h 150 on reverb for 1400 roughly. It's in banged up shape but you know what? Plays like a dream. Weighs about 9 pounds. Sounds great with those 57 humbucker seamours. And finally... You guessed it. It stays in tune. Sounds better than most gibson les pauls too. If you can get one for 1-2 grand I think it's worth it.
And don't let brand recognition get in your way of purchase choice. So what if it doesn't say gibson on the headstock? Heritage is the real deal. Made by the same guys who put the les paul on the map back in the day in the first place. Heritage is just as good as a well made gibson les paul if not better and less over priced.
I like how you always have a smiling face and a kind voice
Would getting Grover locking tuners on SG help keep guitar in tune?
I don't have a Les Paul at the moment but I do have an SG and 335. When I bought the 335, I had a choice of two but when the guy opened the case to show me 'the other one' the headstock was hanging off - on a new guitar! The new acoustic that I just bought is a disgrace to Gibson, badly finished frets, sharp nut etc. I think that the point here is that Gibson will make cosmetic changes to their guitars, some quite terrible to my eye, but functional changes are a nono. If they were to actually 'improve' the Les Paul, and your points are very valid Darrell, people would turn around and say, wow, this is much better - why have you been selling us c**p for all these years. It is very difficult for a company to admit that they were wrong - especially when they can say that it is a very successful line.
p1xelp Hence my H-D comment
I am always wondering, because o neuer had tuning Problems on my les Paul. It hold tune as fine as my ibanez
Thanks for the video, it was shot clearly demonstrating what you were describing. Sound quality was great. Picture was great. Video was short and to the point. New subscriber here!
I do think the shape of their headstocks is pretty iconic, too much change and people will hate it.
It's an amazing headstock no way should they mess with it .
I wanted to buy one of these Gibson SG Standard '61 Maestro Vibrola in Vintage Cherry for a while. After watching your video on this guitar i was totally discouraged from making my purchase due to you not being able to keep it in tune. But I went down to my local Guitar center here in Las Vegas and they had one in stock. I held it, the neck is outstanding the fret work is wonderful, the wood grain and color were so beautiful. I tuned it up and played a few cords and check the tuning, for sure it was out of tune. I fooled around trying to keep it in tune for three hours and became totally discouraged because this guitar was beautiful. So I did the only reasonable thing, I said to the salesman I am going to flip this Guitar Center pick, "blank side it stays here written side I buy it". It landed on written side so home with me it went, and boy am I glad it did. The next day I set out to find out why it wouldn't stay in tune and I discovered why, (fixed it) and now it's hard to knock it out of tune. First the tuning keys were lose and the screws holding the tuners on were striped from the factory, so i fixed that. Second the angle on the Vibrola is wrong from the factory, you need to tweak the angle and shim the Vibrola slightly, the E-string should not be touching the trem bar while in the resting position. Now polish the frets and do a complete set up. This guitar now when using the Vibrola as intended will stay in tune wonderfully. This guitar is a great guitar and if you take the time and put in the work to set it up properly, YOU WILL LOVE THIS GUITAR! I think that from the factory they just assemble the parts and are done, not realizing or having the time that it needs to make this fine guitar function together as a whole instrument. Glad I took the time and made the purchase. Please let your viewers know this is an amazing Gibson Guitar after the corrections are made. I Have no connection with Gibson and I am not a professional Luthier, so if i can fix it this guitar is fixable.
Thank you
They are beautiful guitars and I love to buy American when possible, but for the price they should be perfect out of the box. The things you fixed weren't design flaws as much as poor quality control. It sucks. I have a 95 standard and it plays great, but who knows what adjustments the previous owners did.
This is the best rant about Gibson I have seen.
You earned a subscriber dude. Great videos and I love hownyou dont waste your time
+P Jn Thanks man!
Welcome to the channel ☺
this is not a rant just a nice explanation.
I have a 1974 Gibson Gold Top Les Paul Deluxe which I upgraded to Grover Tuners. I've played professionally and taught for nearly 40 years. My Les Paul stays in tune consistently. I have found that most people don't put the strings on correctly. Pull the string completely through the gear hole. Give yourself a little slack. I grab it at the nut and pull it back 1 to 2 frets depending on the string. Then, bend the string in the direction away from gear knob around and under the string allowing the string to wrap the first wind on itself. The slack gives yourself enough winding around the post for downward pressure. Don't let the string overlap at the bottom. Stretch 'em out and play. This works for all my instruments and I have many.
Funny, I became interested in playing and ran an ad in the local "free shopper", looking for a guitar, and bought a Gibson LP 1974/55 Re-Issue made in the late '70's from the original owner! Paid $150 for it with a repaired (by the owner) broken headstock and divots in the fretboard and dings, scratches, old beer and smoke smell. Sounds great, P90's and all, same strings as bought it with. Stays in tune like magic in WI, with huge temperature and humidity changes. Still the same strings, 4 years later. I should ad I'm not usually this lucky!
firebirds are the best gibsons.... they do everything you just said
Les Pauls don't stay in tune,because Gibson is too busy milking the vintage market,with their overpriced,inferior product, instead of building instruments for the modern player.(Same goes with Fender and their crappy vintage trem systems.)
Other companies who build singlecut style guitars,like PRS,ESP,Kiesel/Carvin,Framus etc. have volute joints,locking tuners,selflubricating graphite nuts(TUSQ nut by Graphtech is imho the best) and a headstock design and construction that increases tuning stabillity.The fact,that a Korean ESP/LTD Eclipse,stays better in tune then a USA Gibson,which costs 3 times the money,is ridiculous.Sadly,guitarplayers and people in general are dumb and continue to buy these outdated and overpriced guitars,because of the name on the headstock or because ''only a Gibson/Fender has mojo'' or some other bullshit.
TheGoldenChodeTV My advice to anybody who wants a quality,oldschool L/P-style guitar is try to get yourself an Edwards.Unfortunately,you have to order them online and import them from Japan,because Gibson threatend to sue them into oblivion,if they sell them in the US & Europe,in stores.
Inferior wood and and finish material. Looks like a duck...but gobbles like a turkey.
i have an edwards les paul custom and it smokes my 69 Gibson les paul custom,and it hasnt had 2 neck breaks like my 69 has had either.the guys/girls at esp edwards are stunning craftsman,best les paul ive ever owned and ive easily had 15(5 gibsons)
trillriff-axegrinder That's because the Edwards has a volute joint,between the neck and the headstock.It prevents the infamous headstock snapping and also improves intonation.Putting a volute joint,doesn't cost much money nor is it complicated technically,Gibson just doesn't give a crap.Same thing with Fender and their crappy nuts/tremolos.
It looks like that is exactly what he's done, and is letting others know about the alternative. Don't get ass hurt over someone not liking the same overpriced hunk of wood that you do.
There you go problem solved
Great video mate
I was at my wits end with a gorgeous 98’ Les Paul DC due to this issue, and stumbled upon this video yesterday. I went to work on it and I’m happy to report the issue has been resolved. I had even posted the guitar for sale and ended the listing following this fix. Thank you!
What did you do?
Johann Mynhardt I gave it a good set up, trimmed and lubricated the nut, and made sure to tighten the tuning pegs up a lot better
Very nice video, thanks. The only Gibson I have is a 339. I've not had huge tuning issues with it but my son managed to knock it over and break the neck. Why don't they just put a volute in it? I have several acoustics with raked necks and a volute, which seem to withstand being knocked down much better.
+Tom Vernon Oh man! That sucks 😨
I have to say that my Les Paul 1959 50th anniversary limited edition reissue has no tuning issues at all. It is the absolute best guitar Ive ever played with, on all aspects. It was worth the price so far, Ive had it for 6 years now. Before purchasing it, I tried dozens and dozens of other guitars in a specialized store in Ottawa, where they only sell top quality guitars. Not a single guitar came close to the one i purchased, I even had the chance to bring some at home to test them in my home studio, and they ALL got destroyed by the 59 reissue.
I have had terrible problems with my friend's epiphone, no string bending allowed when playing (especially on the D and G), it will detune right away. I also have a Gibson Les Paul Menace, this one is indeed detuning, but not as much as the epiphone.
I think it all comes down to when purchasing a guitar, you really have to try tons of them to find the right one, each one is different, no matter the maker of the price. I got lucky on this one for sure...
0:31 Tone help! How do I achieve this sound?
Very useful. I'm considering a new guitar and very interested in PRS and Gibson guitars, so you're comparison was illuminating.
I don't understand why most guitar makers don't use a zero fret to start with. I know that a lot of cheaper guitars have them, but that doesn't make them a bad idea. and, of course, don't make them out of soft metal. That way the only function the nut serves is to align the strings. I have had a couple of decent guitars that have zero frets and I can't think of a single bad thing about them. and you don't have to worry about your nut being filed correctly for your gauge of string or ever binding.
I've got a 335, a Howard Roberts Fusion, an SG classic and a LP goldtop. None of them have tuning problems of any kind. So long as you have properly cut nuts and some graphite in the slots... there aren't issues.
In the past I have had an SG, a LP and a 335. Took me a long time (slow learner lol) to figure out I was spending way too much money. The Les Paul had consistent tuning issues. The SG had cracking in the joints (no I'm not rough on my instruments) but the 335 was all good. I now play a Sterling Cutlass (awesome head stock!) , a MiM Tele and an Ibanez Gibson copy - Straight headstock. I replaced the nut. Never have tuning issues any more. Just play. Next step is to make my guitar sound like I've been playing for 50 years - yup. That's how long it's been.
@@mikeaddison-saipe5820 Actually.. thats true. I forget I had a 70's L:P deluxe that was almost never in tune. I suspect it was the neck moving around in the joint.
Good morning. Thanks for sharing the video. It is informative. However, it is curious to see that some Gibson guitars apparently have not that problem. So, if it is so, what makes the difference?
But how do you explain that there's no tuning problems in acoustic guitars that have the headstock very similar to Gibson's (the angled headstock and the strings splitted behind the saddle)?
I spent years playing Gibsons and struggling to get/stay in tune. After I switched to playing Telecasters and it all went away.
I have both ... and they are no different ... I think it's confirmation bias
@@pablorages1241 continuing to struggle with the Les Paul would have been constipation bias.
pablo rages
Or maybe each instrument is unique despite overall tendencies in designs. Maybe you just never noticed. Maybe it’s a million things. Your observation of them being the same is no more evidence than one person’s observation that they’re different. Are you sure it isn’t confirmation bias with you either? Seeking to confirm your belief that they are the same. Have you ever tested it scientifically?
Besides, it’s not like they noticed the LP went out of tune more because of this video. Noticing something yourself when you have no predisposition to notice it is not confirmation bias; it’s an observation. Observations can be accurate or inaccurate. Neither of you have collected empirical data, so don’t act like your observation, or rather lack of one, is somehow superior for no logical reason.
My les pauls stay in tune. Whooda thunk it.
Do you play?
Vadym Maievskyi every single day for 25 years and counting. IMHO as long as you are handy and know how to properly set up a guitar a les paul really should not give you much grief. The biggest mistake I see people making with an LP is they don't tune up to the note but rather will also tune down to the desired note. If there is any binding going on at the nut your LP will go out of tune the second you bend a string or hit a chord hard. I have had countless guitars and while I agree some designs are more prone to tuning issues than others and that there are ways to design a guitar to be relatively idiot proof I think if people educate themselves on proper set up an maintenance that it should not be an issue.
I have never had a problem
John McVay Me either. But I would wager like me you take care of your instrument. I would wager many who have issues with their LP also have an inch of dust on it as well as strings from the day they bought it.
get wrecked
I thought why not a string post? sort of a sideways roller string tree. So I googled that and found the string butler v3. very clean looking design. Have you tried one of these?
I had evertunes installed in my custom and studio LPs , couldn’t be happier.
it has has never been a problem for me, I have 4 Les Paul's and all my Les Paul's stay in tune, it's all in how you wind the strings and lubricate the nut and just general set and intonation.
Widen the string slots a bit and lube with Carmex. It's stiffer that Vaseline and smells great. That's what Joe Perry's tech says anyway. So if it's good enough for Joe...
From the great Joe Walsh, I learnt this trick:
-Lube the nut with graphite
-tune to pitch, bend strings, retune to pitch if needed.
-play
And my guitar stay in tune always!!!!!! for weeks!!!!!
I have an Epi Wildkat (LP basically), and an ESP LTD EC-50. I am just a beginner so some of these issues haven't arisen yet. But....I was looking at a device called a String Butler that is supposed to eliminate some issues by straightening the string pull. Are you familiar with it, and any thoughts?
I just purchased my first LP. Brand new 2019 studio that's blacked out with a floyd rose bridge. Plays like a dream, but it did need a little bit of adjustment to lower the action when it arrived. Best guitar I have ever played.
Gibson eliminated the neck volute in the 90s to pander to the vintage reissue freaks. This made the cracking you mention more likely. I'd prefer the 70s, 80s models with the volute to the more modern ones. Bring back the volute I say!!
common problem.....heard it many times.... shouldn't be for a $2000+ guitar
What do you think about the LSR nut that a number of Fenders use I.e. the Strat Plus series from the 1980s. I have a couple of these Strats and it’s like precision ball bearings that the strings ride on. I wish all my guitars had these roller bearing nuts. There small too. Thanks Jerry USAPA
Darrel what do you think of Jackson's Monarkha headstock, I gave my son my 82 Les Paul custom, with Gidson tremolo, which I've never seen anywhere before or after.
But now I'm craving that Les Paul tone, so was thinking of Epiphone Les Paul but the headstock issue, so am thinking Jackson Monarkha, maybe upgrade Humbuckers
Aldo Nova got it right with his Gibson Explorer head stock on his les paul
When I bought my les Paul I was outraged by the crap tuning issues then I put graphite on the nut and lubricant on the bridge and it stays in tune as well as my tele. Traditional 2016 T for the record.
Darrell so I'm building my LP now. I've bought Tusq nut and roller bridge as well as grover's locking tuners. The guitar before would not stay in tune for more then 5 min. Will this solve the issue?
I replaced my gibson deluxe crap tuners on my les paul blonde beauty, made on 07, and they lock so the guitar stays in tune, but the tuning rod is too short and there's zero rom to wind the stings downward. You're not supposed to wind the upward, but the string hole is at the bottom of the rod by the tuner's nut. However, with decreasing the angle to make it more shallow being a good idea, will winding the strings upward actually work, so as to decrease the string's steep angle from the rod to the guitar's nut?
If they changed the angle of the headstock, this wouldn't be a Gibson Les Paul anymore...
***** SUrely they would. Who knows anyway if they won't go for it in the future though...
Why would you say that? It makes no sense. That is like saying "If they put disc brakes on a Ford Mustang then it is no Longer a Ford Mustang." See what I mean? It makes no sense.
Sean McAleavy Should I say - it would no longer be a Gibson Les Paul Standard. But you go too far as well. Brakes are an operation devices. It's still Ford Mustang. You may change pickups, tuner keys, bridge, but the body shape is the same still. Les Paul has the tuning problems, why won't they change the whole headstock's shape to a fender-like one? So the arrangement of tuning keys would make strings go straight through the nut? They won't do that, because it's no longer Les Paul. Ofcourse we can go further and put a Les Paul Standard stamp on a PRS guitar, that has little to none tuning issues. But would that still be a Les Paul? Besides - car is not an instrument. You don't use Les Paul guitar to get to the office, you don't ride it, do you? It's different thing with guitars. If you want to have less angle on a headstock, you go for Epiphone guitar, not GIBSON. You know what I mean now? Gibson also did this experiment with widening the neck, brass adjustable nut with screws and this auto-tune device. Did it make it like a Ford Mustang 2016 version did versus the 1970 version for example? No, because it's a guitar. And you compare a utility device (Ford Mustang) to the art device (Gibson Les Paul), I don't want Mona Lisa painting to be replaced with a picture of Miss World 2016. Do you even get me? Ford Mustang is not a signature car. Les Paul IS a signature guitar.
***** On a signature guitar? I don't think so. Modifications in Ford Focus, yeah, but not on a signature instrument.
***** Yeah, maybe, unfortunately we will never know.
Made me look more closely at my Ernie Ball Music Man, which never goes out of tune. I now realise how genius of a design it is. It's hardly angled at all with it headstock just being back a little, the strings are perfectly straight through the nut. I've literally had to leave the guitar alone for a couple of years only to come back thinking "I'll need to tune this"..... nope! lol
Good to know about the angle of the headstocks. Is there a chance you could do a review of a Hagstrom Super Swede which is a H2 guitar with a longer neck scale.
Fascinating stuff.