@tifmedia4595 ??? Aucun rapport. Pour info, un cycliste lambda, peut sortir 300watts en continu, 500watts en crête (peak). Tu te rends compte d'à quel point c'est faible 1.4Kw ? Ça ne permettrait pas de prendre 90kmh même avec personne dans la voiture ! Edit : il a supprimé
@@tifmedia4595 c'est bien, va faire un cap vie réelle maintenant, pour différencier puissance fiscale (administrative) et puissance moteur. Si ton prof t'as dis qu'une 2cv faisait 2cv moteur, c'est un mauvais prof
It had to be a Citroen, the most french of all french car companies. And I knew whatever it was I would want to have it because I love french cars which is weird in itself because I'm german. And yes I would absolutely want to have a Citroen BX4TC
As a fellow french myself, if you want weird french cars which weren't successfull in racing (except F1): Renault : A310 V6 Groupe 4, cool but never crowned Citroën : Visa 1000 Pistes 4x4, who was planned to be in group B if i remember correclty, and participated in the Dakar Rally Peugeot : 504 Coupé, king of africa in rally, but never at home
Another one would be the matra 530 a two seater sports car with a mid mounted Ford V4 engine with a general layout quite close to the original idea of the ford mustang when it was a two seater mid engine sports car. Hell matra in general they did three seat sport cars (the bagheera and the murena), when working with renault they spearheaded the concept of the MPV type of cars with the Espace 1 and commited the infamous renault avantime. Matra is weird brand and i love it.
Kinda fitting to post this now after the amazing weekend that Nikolay Gryazin just delivered in his Initial D- liveried Rally2 Citroen C3, dominating every single stage of the 2024 Rally Japan, finishing almost 2 minutes ahead of the Rally2 champion. By the way, has anybody else been keeping up with the WRC this weekend? What a race!
Somehow, I saw the BX coming from miles away, and I'm glad you zeroed in on the 4TC variant. About 12:50, the thing with handbrakes is not just a BX4TC thing - the original Audi quattro and Peugeot 205T16 had a locked central diff, and applying a handbrake would affect all the wheels, so the usual handbrake technique just doesn't work.
The problem with the BX4TC was that the timeframe they wanna join the rally to the time they wanna add it into the rally was very rushed thus it became a botched job. When Citroen saw their parent company Peugeot doing well in rally and selling off cars like hot cakes, they too wanted to give it a shot but they had a problem... The decision came very late in 1985 and they wanted the car to enter the WRC in early 1986 thus there's no know-how and no actual materials that Citroen can use to develop the car properly. So what they did was use whatever tech they had and whatever parts that Peugeot had left behind in building their 205 T16 and slapped it into the BX4TC and hoped it worked which... Surprise surprise... It didn't.
Sébastien loeb is born in the same region as me, here its a legend, i believe that he now live in swiss. For the most French car i had think about the citroen sm.
Citroën quickly became one my fave brands after discovering their shenanigans, they never had the same money as Renault and Peugeot, yet they were very bold and quirky with their ideas... one that was pretty cool but never got mass production was the Citroën GS Birotor, that had a rotary engine... Yes the infamous Dorito was also on Citroëns, not only Mazda
Didn't quite expect this to turn into a BX4TC documentary, but it's a very welcome surprise since i asked for it 8 months ago... well the wait is over now ("Ranking The Worst Race Cars And Rally Cars" video to be exact)
Finally! Someone talking about the hidden gem that is the BX 4TC 😂 The only Group B homologation car that you could use to take your friends/family to a trip... And even if it was weird in every way, and a massive failure that you will not find it in any racing games, i still think it's pretty cool, and i love it!
One of the remaining BX 4TC is displayed in Reims' car museum, which is privately owned. When i visited it last year with my friend, I almost lost my mind, because I was so surprised to see it. It took some time to explain to my friend why it was so special, but I didn't forget to take some pictures!
12:05 Actually, the first mid-engined hatchback intended specifically for rallying was the Renault 5 Turbo from group 4, which was arguably even weirder with its weird, squat looking body and RWD layout, which means it’s arguably even more french
The weirdest of all? The Renault Avantime - SUV-meets-2-door-coupé-MPV-thingy. I was working in France when it came out. A French colleague was mulling his next company car and I asked him (tongue in cheek) if he’d considered an Avantime - he raised his eyebrows and said “Some French cars are too French even for the French.”
My first car was a 1982 Matra murena 1.6. It was a pretty cool quirky car with 3 front seats, a plastic body, central transversal engine and pop up lights. I love french car from that era because they are simple, original and stylish.
No. You are _wrong!_ It can't possibly be "Most French" if it has the style of a cardboard shoe box. The most French car ever was of course the glorious Citroén SM. It had it all: Beautiful design the likes had never been seen before (and after), horribly complicated and complex technology, unbelievable design flaws and so devastatingly unsuccessful it literally destroyed and bankrupted the company.
3:53 French people are so weird they bury cars on an attic. Today's most French car is certainly the Secma F16 Turbo, but the weirdest of them all is probably the Sovra LM2.
In my opinion, they would all be Citroens The DS, CX, XM, Xantia, C6 and the final hydrapneumatic equipped car, the C5 (mk2) in Tourer form. But I would also rate the Renault 25 highly.
As far as I am concerned, the only company that made French cars was Citroën, and the last French car they made was the C6. The stuff made by Peugeot and Renault aren't really that special, and Bugatti has always been a Italian/German manufacturer.
Ahem, Renault used to make very quirky cars. Last of them were the Avantime & Vel Satis. Bugatti was originally 100% French. Some Italians bought and restarted Bugatti in the 90's and then it was bought by Volkswagen but manufactured in France. Now of course Bugatti is owned by Rimac from Croatia, still built in France.
To add to my previous; until the 90's Peugeot were considered the French Mercedes. They were bulletproof and well built cars and that is special. They also had some very pretty models from the 60's to the 90's, last of them being the 406 Coupé.
@@piuthemagicman Bugatti was created by an Italian man, in German land. As for the quirky/interesting cars made by the other makers, they could just as well have been Japanese, Italian or whatever else. They never really came across as distinctly French to me.
Pretty fun video ! The bx4tc is a good choice, although you can argue that it was made under some "pressure" to confront themselves to the competition in rally, which may not be the most French reason to make a car, although we like competition as an opportunity to appear superior 😅 (or fail miserably. No middle ground). My personal choice would be the Citroën C6. The last large "luxury" sedan under the Citroën brand, the last one to use extensively hydropneumatic suspensions i think. But also full of random quirks and tech (obviously), like this dashboard with way too many buttons, the concave back window, lane assist, heads-up display, active rear spoiler than opens up at 65km/h... this one only on the V6, because of course it had a V6. And much more... They sold 23k C6, an absolute failure, although French presidents liked it. The Renault Avantime could be a close contender. Who decided that a premium-but-not-luxury MPV with 4 seats and a V6 would be a good idea ?
I would put the Citroen SM on top as the most French car. When a car gets the nickname pandora's box you know you have a winner in that most French of French category. The SM only sold aprox 12.000 units and was a major reason Citroën went bankrupt. After Peugeot was forced by the goverment to take over Citroën the SM was axed imediatly! Here come the crazy facts about the SM -Citroën bought the carmanufacturer Masseratti just to get a sporty V8 engine for their new GT flagship car. - That engine was to big so Maseratti frankensteined their famous smooth V8 engine by chopping 2 cilinders of and ended up with an out of sync running V6! -The SM who was suposed to be the flagship in top GT luxury for the US market wasn't allowed due to the low bumperheight and they refused to alter the design. -Lots of one of high tech was used and cars differ in used parts making working on them a nightmare and expensive. - Reliabilty euh there garanteed always a part that does partly or totaly not function every time you drive it. The SM became a totaly bonkus car designed for a market that didn't exist anymore filled with exotic high tech only few experts can maintain/repair.
Okay I am totally importing a French car into America once I have the money 😂 maybe three, because I will probably have to be my own mechanic and will be the only one, who would want to fix something like this lol
it should be all about Citröen haha the Traction Avant, the SM with a Maserati engine (what could go wrong?). Such a shame they don't have money anymore for those experiences on 4 wheels
Although I love the BX, and have had many, I do not agree that this is the ultimate French car, because - as you say in your introduction- it should have sold poorly. The BX was an enormous sales success. Therefore, I think it should be the XM, and specifically the type y3, so the first series. It has all the requirements, PLUS it had electric gremlins.
@FailedRacers ...because they on purpose did not make many. I am sure that Citroën had wanted to sell all those XMs that they had waiting outside the factory. Same goes for the Birotor someone mentions in their comment. And it is also not the C6, because that's not a real Citroën. (Shots fired.... 😁)
Oh yeah, it was a homologation car so they only needed to make 200, but since homologation cars are special and all that, most brands managed to sell all 200, except for Citroen
the most french off all time is the renault 5 a.k.a le car with its hatchback design was revolutionary even with the hot r5 turbo and r5 maxi turbo now the new renault 5 is electric but kept the original cars design in modern form also there is a alpine version the a290
Interesting. But you need to research your topic. 2cv certainly doesn't refer to horse power but fiscal power. Original 1948 2cv had 9 horsepower but a 2 fiscal horsepower
CV stands for Chevaux Vapeur or Horse Steam or a calculation from the French State to calculate power of an engine being Steam (vapeur), Diesel or petrol. Cars like the Renault 4 the later Renault 5 and the Twingo's first series are typically French, simply brilliant engineering affordable for the masses, sexless, classless and practical boxes that were much more innovating than the 2CV thanks to them being hatch backs. Further if uniqueness is the benchmark take Avions Voisin, Facel Vega or Hotchkiss, Delage or Delahaye as a benchmark or perhaps the Panhard Dynamique with its sleeve engine and centrally positioned steering wheel. We speak 1930's when th ePanhard was launched, designed by Louis Bionnier. And as working class heroes the 404 and 504 Peugeots stick out as well as their grand child the legendary 205, especially the Diesel versions were very good performing cars. And the Citroën BX 4TC group B rallycar, well its layout was copies from the Ur-Quattro, and I know this from the horse mouth, Monsieur Wambergue, Citroën works driver at the time who still owns 2 ex- works cars ! Ow almost forgot what about the Citroën GS Bi-rotor powered by a Wankel engine or the six-wheel CX Tissier haulers.
The front ans rear supension on the 2CV is very well independent! The were two spring in that barrel. Be that as it may. I now know the most needless video on YT.
Lots of rubbish right in the opening. For starters, France was actually the country where the automobile came really to life. It was invented in Germany, but France rapidly became the country that was at the forefront of the automobile industry: serious manufacturing, racing, tarmac covering of overland roads came into being in France. Then, design and styling of French cars is not “insane”. It’s highly rational and favours practicality, economy and robustness over useless styling gags and stupid conventions. French manufacturers were decisive in the breakthroughs of front wheel drive (safer road holding than rear wheel drive and frees the space between front and rear axles from most mechanical clutter, not to mention dead weight), hatchbacks (more useability of the luggage space, variable interior) and independent suspension (better road holding and comfort). Insanity is what has lead to the British car industry all but dying out. Only British brands have repeatedly re-engineered FWD cars into RWD cars (example Triumph 1300-> Dolomite, Rover 75), or replaced cars with monocoque bodywork with cars that had a separate chassis ( Standard Ten -> Triumph Herald). You could also take a look at the Jurassic park of the American car industry for insanity, where basically half the cars are light duty trucks that are the same architecture of cars from 100 years ago (separate frame, live axles, RWD…), weigh two and a half metric tonnes empty, and burn insane amounts of fuel to haul two suburban dwellers to the mall and back.
@@FailedRacers the usual way isn’t necessarily “sane”. All Citroën models designed by André Lefebvre were the result of completely rational analysis. Methods like requirements engineering did not exist, yet they were applied here. The 2CV is an excellent example. Its brief was to make a car for peasants that could replace the cart drawn by animals, but with a few very specific capabilities. The answer of the British or German car engineers would very probably have been a poverty version of their existing car models, aka “sane”, because it relied on solutions that existed. The answer of Citroën was to start on a blank sheet and to analyse what the best possible solution was, and to find new ones if the existing ones weren’t satisfactory. The result was a car that was much lighter and much more purposeful. For instance, the brief cited that the driver should be able to wear their hat entering and driving the car. The suspension was meant to give the vehicle off-road capability that ordinary cars did not have in the day. The hydropneumatic suspension started from a system that was meant to make the braking of light commercial vehicles safer and more efficient. This really went a bit off the rails, but only because once you have high pressure hydraulics, you have a new solution to a lot of pre-existing problems related to varying loads and their effects on the car’s suspension and road holding, a subject that is directly related to safety and was always on the mind of Lefebvre and his team. But according to (most) Brits and Americans, the “sane” way apparently was to put larger engines and more chrome on cars with leaf springs and drum brakes… engines that in the case of American cars, would be designed almost without regard to efficiency, and in the case of British cars, often have exceedingly low bore/stroke ratios that made the engines vulnerable to high engine speeds and cause unnecessary wear and tear. Compare it with the 2CV engine, which tripled its standard output during its lifetime, and could deliver its maximum power at 7,000 rpm in certain versions for hours on end, since it didn’t have a head gasket nor a radiator. Try that with a BMC A series engine in factory shape, or heaven forbid, a Triumph four cylinder. You left out one iconic Citroën, by the way, that was the first to reunite all the solutions that became standard on 80% of cars later : front wheel drive, monocoque chassis integrated into the all-steel body shell, independent suspension, and hydraulic brakes. This car was the 1934 Traction Avant, a car that only by its outer shape would betray at the end of the 23 year production run, that it wasn’t from a latest generation of designs. The last point that I cannot agree with, in this context, is the pretended lack of commercial success. Citroën was in fact the first company to use assembly lines in Europe. Renault soon followed the example, after Fiat had done so in Italy. Fiat would later create Simca in France. Peugeot would also make cars in huge numbers. These four brands were very successful throughout Europe when the customs barriers were removed step by step. Not all of their models would be particularly audacious, but Renault and Simca were absolute forerunners on the hatchback concept and sold these models by the hundreds of thousands in the 1960s-1990s. Simca and Renault were associated with Matra, whose designs opened the way to the MPV and SUV concepts. Insane? I think the current infatuation of many markets with oversized 4WD models that are too wide for the average city centre garage fits the description of insanity much better than the Citroën DS, which is also too long and has too large a turning circle, but at least you have great visibility in all directions and don’t have to fear running over pedestrians on a simple right turn.
Not entirely unrelated. Marine Le Pen is in charge of the National Rally party. National Rally, originally called National Front was founded by her father, Jean-Marie Le Pen. National Front's founding members consisted partially of former members of the OAS terrorist organisation which attempted to assassinate Charles De Gaulle, such as Pierre Bousquet and other former French SS members. That makes National Rally a succesor organisation to OAS.
Maybe you first define what is "French" for you. And everything you do not understand or never seen is "weird". Maybe gain some knowledge. Just a hint. Then, get your facts right and do proper research.
LIBERTÉ! ÉGALITÉ! RENAULT COUPÉ!
liberté, égalité , renault zoé hihihi
Avantime ! Matra/Renault
The horses in the 2cv are not horse power, but fiscal horses. It's a taxation bracket thing
@tifmedia4595 ??? Aucun rapport. Pour info, un cycliste lambda, peut sortir 300watts en continu, 500watts en crête (peak). Tu te rends compte d'à quel point c'est faible 1.4Kw ? Ça ne permettrait pas de prendre 90kmh même avec personne dans la voiture !
Edit : il a supprimé
La première 2cv (fiscaux) faisait une puissance réelle de 12 CV, ce qui lui donnait une vitesse de croisière de 60 km/h et un maxi de 70 km/h.
@@HenriBourjade et les 425cc, bien plus communes, sont données pour 96kmh. Les 2cv4 (435cc), sont annoncées à plus de 100 ! Toujours avec 2cv fiscaux
@@yuuji_ c'est ce que j'ai appris à l'école pour mon cap d'électricien
@@tifmedia4595 c'est bien, va faire un cap vie réelle maintenant, pour différencier puissance fiscale (administrative) et puissance moteur. Si ton prof t'as dis qu'une 2cv faisait 2cv moteur, c'est un mauvais prof
It had to be a Citroen, the most french of all french car companies. And I knew whatever it was I would want to have it because I love french cars which is weird in itself because I'm german. And yes I would absolutely want to have a Citroen BX4TC
Ein Mann mit Geschmack. 👍
Citreon is such an underrated brand
They have made some of the best cars ever
Only underrated if you're north american, they're very prominent in Europe and other parts of the world like Argentina and Chile
As a fellow french myself, if you want weird french cars which weren't successfull in racing (except F1):
Renault : A310 V6 Groupe 4, cool but never crowned
Citroën : Visa 1000 Pistes 4x4, who was planned to be in group B if i remember correclty, and participated in the Dakar Rally
Peugeot : 504 Coupé, king of africa in rally, but never at home
@@aliheyka there is also the AX superproduction and the Le Car Turbo (infamous for creating the need for the HANS device)
Another one would be the matra 530 a two seater sports car with a mid mounted Ford V4 engine with a general layout quite close to the original idea of the ford mustang when it was a two seater mid engine sports car.
Hell matra in general they did three seat sport cars (the bagheera and the murena), when working with renault they spearheaded the concept of the MPV type of cars with the Espace 1 and commited the infamous renault avantime. Matra is weird brand and i love it.
You dropped the video while I'm working on my 2005 Citroen C5. Parfait!
BX4TC: One of my Favorite Majorette toys when I was 8!
Kinda fitting to post this now after the amazing weekend that Nikolay Gryazin just delivered in his Initial D- liveried Rally2 Citroen C3, dominating every single stage of the 2024 Rally Japan, finishing almost 2 minutes ahead of the Rally2 champion.
By the way, has anybody else been keeping up with the WRC this weekend? What a race!
The 4TC looks genuinely sad, like it was forced to eat cement when it was 3
Somehow, I saw the BX coming from miles away, and I'm glad you zeroed in on the 4TC variant.
About 12:50, the thing with handbrakes is not just a BX4TC thing - the original Audi quattro and Peugeot 205T16 had a locked central diff, and applying a handbrake would affect all the wheels, so the usual handbrake technique just doesn't work.
The problem with the BX4TC was that the timeframe they wanna join the rally to the time they wanna add it into the rally was very rushed thus it became a botched job.
When Citroen saw their parent company Peugeot doing well in rally and selling off cars like hot cakes, they too wanted to give it a shot but they had a problem... The decision came very late in 1985 and they wanted the car to enter the WRC in early 1986 thus there's no know-how and no actual materials that Citroen can use to develop the car properly. So what they did was use whatever tech they had and whatever parts that Peugeot had left behind in building their 205 T16 and slapped it into the BX4TC and hoped it worked which... Surprise surprise... It didn't.
Sébastien loeb is born in the same region as me, here its a legend, i believe that he now live in swiss. For the most French car i had think about the citroen sm.
Same here.
Back when French cars did not suck. Thanks for this video!
2cv, DS and traction
Citroen was the best at some points
in my criteria french cars MUST have bad maintenance system, terrible reliability and plastic finishing quality - but with an artistic aura for sure
Citroën quickly became one my fave brands after discovering their shenanigans, they never had the same money as Renault and Peugeot, yet they were very bold and quirky with their ideas... one that was pretty cool but never got mass production was the Citroën GS Birotor, that had a rotary engine... Yes the infamous Dorito was also on Citroëns, not only Mazda
Didn't quite expect this to turn into a BX4TC documentary, but it's a very welcome surprise since i asked for it 8 months ago...
well the wait is over now
("Ranking The Worst Race Cars And Rally Cars" video to be exact)
Finally! Someone talking about the hidden gem that is the BX 4TC 😂 The only Group B homologation car that you could use to take your friends/family to a trip...
And even if it was weird in every way, and a massive failure that you will not find it in any racing games, i still think it's pretty cool, and i love it!
I found it as a mod for ac. Vr will go crazy
The first WRC game made by Milestone have the BX 4TC (and I still can't explain it)
You will find the Citroen BX 4TC in Forza Horizon 5. Just saying. Not very competitive tho. I absolutely love it!
@@theloniusmoine9928Think it's also the first HD model of one too in FH5's case
Interesting take. It's certainly not a bad shout when you lay the points out like that though.
One of the remaining BX 4TC is displayed in Reims' car museum, which is privately owned.
When i visited it last year with my friend, I almost lost my mind, because I was so surprised to see it. It took some time to explain to my friend why it was so special, but I didn't forget to take some pictures!
12:05
Actually, the first mid-engined hatchback intended specifically for rallying was the Renault 5 Turbo from group 4, which was arguably even weirder with its weird, squat looking body and RWD layout, which means it’s arguably even more french
I'll say the GS Birotor. Now watching.
Ok the BX4TC was the obvious other choice, I'd have also suggested the Facel Vega Facellia or the Panhard 24 BT/CT.
8:14 didn’t expect the Marine Le Pen jumpscare ngl 💀
Especially in 2024, Dear Zeus!
The weirdest of all? The Renault Avantime - SUV-meets-2-door-coupé-MPV-thingy. I was working in France when it came out. A French colleague was mulling his next company car and I asked him (tongue in cheek) if he’d considered an Avantime - he raised his eyebrows and said “Some French cars are too French even for the French.”
My first car was a 1982 Matra murena 1.6. It was a pretty cool quirky car with 3 front seats, a plastic body, central transversal engine and pop up lights. I love french car from that era because they are simple, original and stylish.
No. You are _wrong!_ It can't possibly be "Most French" if it has the style of a cardboard shoe box.
The most French car ever was of course the glorious Citroén SM.
It had it all: Beautiful design the likes had never been seen before (and after), horribly complicated and complex technology, unbelievable design flaws and so devastatingly unsuccessful it literally destroyed and bankrupted the company.
Renault Avantime, tons of creativity, but nobody brought one
My parents old 307hdi wagon went hard, and didn't break. But the rear wiper had a mind of it's own after 6 years.
As a frenchman I completely agree with everything you said while absolutely hating everything you said (But I have to salute the research work tho)
French enginering is Devine genious or utter Merde.
Owning a classic Citroën (GS break) is like being married you love and hate it at the same time.
Can't be Renault 4... its nose isn't up
Ah the FIA historic database! Someone did their research. I could spend hours with those homologation papers.
this is the best video ever made
Matra M530:
Hideous design
Great handling
Decent performance
Missing obvious features
Quirky choices
Big selling flop
French.
I think the 2cv is still the most french car ever made. When I think french I think 2cv.
3:53 French people are so weird they bury cars on an attic.
Today's most French car is certainly the Secma F16 Turbo, but the weirdest of them all is probably the Sovra LM2.
Babe wake up new Failed Racers video
In my opinion, they would all be Citroens
The DS, CX, XM, Xantia, C6 and the final hydrapneumatic equipped car, the C5 (mk2) in Tourer form.
But I would also rate the Renault 25 highly.
As far as I am concerned, the only company that made French cars was Citroën, and the last French car they made was the C6.
The stuff made by Peugeot and Renault aren't really that special, and Bugatti has always been a Italian/German manufacturer.
Ahem, Renault used to make very quirky cars. Last of them were the Avantime & Vel Satis. Bugatti was originally 100% French. Some Italians bought and restarted Bugatti in the 90's and then it was bought by Volkswagen but manufactured in France. Now of course Bugatti is owned by Rimac from Croatia, still built in France.
To add to my previous; until the 90's Peugeot were considered the French Mercedes. They were bulletproof and well built cars and that is special. They also had some very pretty models from the 60's to the 90's, last of them being the 406 Coupé.
@@piuthemagicman Bugatti was created by an Italian man, in German land. As for the quirky/interesting cars made by the other makers, they could just as well have been Japanese, Italian or whatever else. They never really came across as distinctly French to me.
@@peekaboo1575 You're mostly right about Bugatti yet I wouldn't consider you a man of car culture. A lot to learn for you.
@@piuthemagicman Let us agree to disagree.
I thought of the Avantime, actually
Pretty fun video ! The bx4tc is a good choice, although you can argue that it was made under some "pressure" to confront themselves to the competition in rally, which may not be the most French reason to make a car, although we like competition as an opportunity to appear superior 😅 (or fail miserably. No middle ground).
My personal choice would be the Citroën C6. The last large "luxury" sedan under the Citroën brand, the last one to use extensively hydropneumatic suspensions i think. But also full of random quirks and tech (obviously), like this dashboard with way too many buttons, the concave back window, lane assist, heads-up display, active rear spoiler than opens up at 65km/h... this one only on the V6, because of course it had a V6. And much more...
They sold 23k C6, an absolute failure, although French presidents liked it.
The Renault Avantime could be a close contender. Who decided that a premium-but-not-luxury MPV with 4 seats and a V6 would be a good idea ?
I would put the Citroen SM on top as the most French car.
When a car gets the nickname pandora's box you know you have a winner in that most French of French category.
The SM only sold aprox 12.000 units and was a major reason Citroën went bankrupt.
After Peugeot was forced by the goverment to take over Citroën the SM was axed imediatly!
Here come the crazy facts about the SM
-Citroën bought the carmanufacturer Masseratti just to get a sporty V8 engine for their new GT flagship car.
- That engine was to big so Maseratti frankensteined their famous smooth V8 engine by chopping 2 cilinders of and ended up with an out of sync running V6!
-The SM who was suposed to be the flagship in top GT luxury for the US market wasn't allowed due to the low bumperheight and they refused to alter the design.
-Lots of one of high tech was used and cars differ in used parts making working on them a nightmare and expensive.
- Reliabilty euh there garanteed always a part that does partly or totaly not function every time you drive it.
The SM became a totaly bonkus car designed for a market that didn't exist anymore filled with exotic high tech only few experts can maintain/repair.
C’est clair, la voiture la plus française de tout les temps, c’est la SM
can you make a video about opel vectra gts v8 dtm
Okay I am totally importing a French car into America once I have the money 😂 maybe three, because I will probably have to be my own mechanic and will be the only one, who would want to fix something like this lol
You didn't mention the Twingo 1 :(
it should be all about Citröen haha the Traction Avant, the SM with a Maserati engine (what could go wrong?). Such a shame they don't have money anymore for those experiences on 4 wheels
the bx is designed by an italian
cv was the tax scale the french used the higher the number the higher the tax
I think this citreon group b car was the only capble to compete with the lada in these rallys 😂
Although I love the BX, and have had many, I do not agree that this is the ultimate French car, because - as you say in your introduction- it should have sold poorly.
The BX was an enormous sales success. Therefore, I think it should be the XM, and specifically the type y3, so the first series. It has all the requirements, PLUS it had electric gremlins.
Yes, but the ultimate French car is specifically the 4TC version, which sold less than 100 units
@FailedRacers ...because they on purpose did not make many. I am sure that Citroën had wanted to sell all those XMs that they had waiting outside the factory. Same goes for the Birotor someone mentions in their comment. And it is also not the C6, because that's not a real Citroën. (Shots fired.... 😁)
Oh yeah, it was a homologation car so they only needed to make 200, but since homologation cars are special and all that, most brands managed to sell all 200, except for Citroen
Lemon.
the most french off all time is the renault 5 a.k.a le car with its hatchback design was revolutionary even with the hot r5 turbo and r5 maxi turbo
now the new renault 5 is electric but kept the original cars design in modern form also there is a alpine version the a290
Huh... Hatchback was first found on the Citroën Traction Avant. A 1930s car. So no, Renault didn't revolutionise much.
Interesting. But you need to research your topic. 2cv certainly doesn't refer to horse power but fiscal power. Original 1948 2cv had 9 horsepower but a 2 fiscal horsepower
CV stands for Chevaux Vapeur or Horse Steam or a calculation from the French State to calculate power of an engine being Steam (vapeur), Diesel or petrol.
Cars like the Renault 4 the later Renault 5 and the Twingo's first series are typically French, simply brilliant engineering affordable for the masses, sexless, classless and practical boxes that were much more innovating than the 2CV thanks to them being hatch backs. Further if uniqueness is the benchmark take Avions Voisin, Facel Vega or Hotchkiss, Delage or Delahaye as a benchmark or perhaps the Panhard Dynamique with its sleeve engine and centrally positioned steering wheel. We speak 1930's when th ePanhard was launched, designed by Louis Bionnier. And as working class heroes the 404 and 504 Peugeots stick out as well as their grand child the legendary 205, especially the Diesel versions were very good performing cars. And the Citroën BX 4TC group B rallycar, well its layout was copies from the Ur-Quattro, and I know this from the horse mouth, Monsieur Wambergue, Citroën works driver at the time who still owns 2 ex- works cars ! Ow almost forgot what about the Citroën GS Bi-rotor powered by a Wankel engine or the six-wheel CX Tissier haulers.
The best of Citroën ???= C15 .... "The lord car"....
What makes Aus/kiwi’s have such prominent vocal fry?
The front ans rear supension on the 2CV is very well independent! The were two spring in that barrel.
Be that as it may. I now know the most needless video on YT.
Xantia Activa 😉👍
Your video is definitely fun and interesting. But any French person will answer Citroën 2CV, Peugeot 205, Peugeot 206 or Renault Kangoo.
The most french car was tge first De Dion Bouton. All made in France.
Renault 12? No, this is simply too much because of it's Romanian cousin Dacia 1300.
Lots of rubbish right in the opening.
For starters, France was actually the country where the automobile came really to life. It was invented in Germany, but France rapidly became the country that was at the forefront of the automobile industry: serious manufacturing, racing, tarmac covering of overland roads came into being in France.
Then, design and styling of French cars is not “insane”. It’s highly rational and favours practicality, economy and robustness over useless styling gags and stupid conventions. French manufacturers were decisive in the breakthroughs of front wheel drive (safer road holding than rear wheel drive and frees the space between front and rear axles from most mechanical clutter, not to mention dead weight), hatchbacks (more useability of the luggage space, variable interior) and independent suspension (better road holding and comfort).
Insanity is what has lead to the British car industry all but dying out. Only British brands have repeatedly re-engineered FWD cars into RWD cars (example Triumph 1300-> Dolomite, Rover 75), or replaced cars with monocoque bodywork with cars that had a separate chassis ( Standard Ten -> Triumph Herald). You could also take a look at the Jurassic park of the American car industry for insanity, where basically half the cars are light duty trucks that are the same architecture of cars from 100 years ago (separate frame, live axles, RWD…), weigh two and a half metric tonnes empty, and burn insane amounts of fuel to haul two suburban dwellers to the mall and back.
Insane in this case does not necessarily mean bad, it just took some unusual thought processes to get to the design.
I would say it's insane in the "mad genius" way.
@@FailedRacers the usual way isn’t necessarily “sane”. All Citroën models designed by André Lefebvre were the result of completely rational analysis. Methods like requirements engineering did not exist, yet they were applied here.
The 2CV is an excellent example. Its brief was to make a car for peasants that could replace the cart drawn by animals, but with a few very specific capabilities. The answer of the British or German car engineers would very probably have been a poverty version of their existing car models, aka “sane”, because it relied on solutions that existed. The answer of Citroën was to start on a blank sheet and to analyse what the best possible solution was, and to find new ones if the existing ones weren’t satisfactory. The result was a car that was much lighter and much more purposeful. For instance, the brief cited that the driver should be able to wear their hat entering and driving the car. The suspension was meant to give the vehicle off-road capability that ordinary cars did not have in the day.
The hydropneumatic suspension started from a system that was meant to make the braking of light commercial vehicles safer and more efficient. This really went a bit off the rails, but only because once you have high pressure hydraulics, you have a new solution to a lot of pre-existing problems related to varying loads and their effects on the car’s suspension and road holding, a subject that is directly related to safety and was always on the mind of Lefebvre and his team.
But according to (most) Brits and Americans, the “sane” way apparently was to put larger engines and more chrome on cars with leaf springs and drum brakes… engines that in the case of American cars, would be designed almost without regard to efficiency, and in the case of British cars, often have exceedingly low bore/stroke ratios that made the engines vulnerable to high engine speeds and cause unnecessary wear and tear. Compare it with the 2CV engine, which tripled its standard output during its lifetime, and could deliver its maximum power at 7,000 rpm in certain versions for hours on end, since it didn’t have a head gasket nor a radiator. Try that with a BMC A series engine in factory shape, or heaven forbid, a Triumph four cylinder.
You left out one iconic Citroën, by the way, that was the first to reunite all the solutions that became standard on 80% of cars later : front wheel drive, monocoque chassis integrated into the all-steel body shell, independent suspension, and hydraulic brakes. This car was the 1934 Traction Avant, a car that only by its outer shape would betray at the end of the 23 year production run, that it wasn’t from a latest generation of designs.
The last point that I cannot agree with, in this context, is the pretended lack of commercial success. Citroën was in fact the first company to use assembly lines in Europe. Renault soon followed the example, after Fiat had done so in Italy. Fiat would later create Simca in France. Peugeot would also make cars in huge numbers. These four brands were very successful throughout Europe when the customs barriers were removed step by step. Not all of their models would be particularly audacious, but Renault and Simca were absolute forerunners on the hatchback concept and sold these models by the hundreds of thousands in the 1960s-1990s. Simca and Renault were associated with Matra, whose designs opened the way to the MPV and SUV concepts. Insane? I think the current infatuation of many markets with oversized 4WD models that are too wide for the average city centre garage fits the description of insanity much better than the Citroën DS, which is also too long and has too large a turning circle, but at least you have great visibility in all directions and don’t have to fear running over pedestrians on a simple right turn.
8:14 "far right nationalists" picture of Marine le Pen unrelated I presume?
Not entirely unrelated. Marine Le Pen is in charge of the National Rally party. National Rally, originally called National Front was founded by her father, Jean-Marie Le Pen. National Front's founding members consisted partially of former members of the OAS terrorist organisation which attempted to assassinate Charles De Gaulle, such as Pierre Bousquet and other former French SS members. That makes National Rally a succesor organisation to OAS.
@@FailedRacers I am of course being sarcastic. The association is entirely legitimate.
Maybe you first define what is "French" for you. And everything you do not understand or never seen is "weird". Maybe gain some knowledge. Just a hint. Then, get your facts right and do proper research.
Reno 4
Ky