Let's talk about how they started diluting the Hyper Potions after gen 6. They used to be a solid endgame option with 200 HP healing, and then they watered them down to 120 and sold them for the same price!! It's frankly insulting
One thing that is important to mention that you don't ever address in this video is that having a repel up only actually matters when you're moving through tall grass, caves, or water, and very few of these patches are larger than 100 steps in length. A lot of the money that goes into higher grade repels, especially max repels, is wasted because of this. There's no reason to spend the extra money on a longer repel when it's mostly going to be used on spaces between the grass, and towns!
I really only use, or have used, them in the caves or on water where every step is an encounter tile. But those have become shorter and less common so I just use way fewer repels over all now.
@@unfunny5928 I use super repels most of the game still, just that I don't agree that the money is wasted past 100 steps because of caves where you go more than 100 steps at once
And in the Alola games it's even more of a ripoff because roto loto can get you a roto stealth if you're lucky, and that tends to last much longer than even max repels anyway!
BW2 completely killed Max Repel with the Repel prompt after they run out. Now, the only point of ever using a Max Repel post-BW is if you find one off the floor.
@@Jarlulfric4202Pokemon currency are closer to Yen than Dollars. Think of the Lemonade on the top of the Lilycove City Shopping center for example is P350 or the cookie from MT.Pyre costing P200. That would be insane prices if P1 is equivalent to 1 dollar. Please do use yours before demanding other people use their common sense. Thank you.
Those aren’t a scam because you can use potions in battle and heal more in one turn. Even if you don’t use items in battle, using regular potions to heal to max by the mid to late game takes a long time.
@pxm2337 lemonades are cheaper and heal 80 instead of 50. So just going from potions to lemonades is better and skip over super potions. Hyper potions are also more efficient in late game. Potions are 200 and heal 20, super potions are 700 and heal 50, hyper potions are 2000 and heal 200. (Numbers for hyper and potion may be slightly off. I think potions might be 300 and hypers 1500 so hypers are even more efficient.)
The only issue with the vending machine drinks are that they take a long time to buy in bulk. Of course, buying 10 or so Lemonades isn't that big of a deal imo, but I can easily see some people skipping that in favor of clicking right once on the PokeMart buy menu.
@@lhancedalisay2665 depends on the game. Some of them you can. Most games you can buy as many as you want just have to buy one at a time. Moomoo milk is also a thing in a lot of the games and that is also super cheap and you can always buy in bulk.
i always go fresh water and lemonade over super potions when possible till i'm at the end of the game then i buy a bunch of Full Restores and Revives and Hyper Potions and Full Heals. if a game has MooMoo Milk i go with that and stock up on that.
If it didn't take so long to buy them I'd use them in place of hyper potions too, since one of my personal rules I try to stick to is "no items in battle", so that might be a good "time is money" calculation
If you value your time at more than 135,000 pokedollar per hour, max repels are the better deal. I also think it mirrors the real world in a cool way. base repels are cheap garbage, they draw you in with their low price but you end up spending morebecause their quality is so low, super repels are a good trade off between price and quality, and max repels you pay top dollar to squeeze the last bit of quality that barely even matters out.
@@nick.hammes I just took the 8 seconds savings vs the 300 pokédollars savings and multiplied it out to an hourly rate of what you get payed to use super instead of max repels.
I know this is a bit nitpicky but you started the timer after spraying the first repels on each run. This will mess with your numbers slightly when scaling to the 20,000 step calculation because in that scenario you are essentially remove the bag time once every 2000 steps. It really doesn't affect the differences between the total times but would add a flat amount of time (about 80 seconds) to all 3 calculations. This really isn't super important. When you're doing calculations, like these, small inaccuracies can creep in if not accounted for and have an effect especially in ratio comparisons. Otherwise great video! Keep at it.
As a true cheapskate I NEVER bought a SINGLE repel in any of the Pokemon games. ...I also never used any repels that I've found in the game's world because, hell if I know, I might've need it later! ...oh boy, do I regret all those hours from my childhood that I could waste in other ways... Anyway, really informative video and quite pleasing aesthically too!
I’m the king of not using something now in fear I need it more later (like escape ropes) and then at the end of the game I have 10 escape ropes and never used one lmao, so I feel you. And thanks so much, glad you enjoyed!
This kind of video is more up your alley for covering; where you can break down cost like this based on what items provide. Though a lot of Pokemon Fans already knew that Super Repels are the most worthwhile because their cost-per-step ratio is the lowest of the three. Will admit, I did NOT see regular repels taking the ultimate L here. Most fans would think Max Repels are the worst to buy from the mart, but it turns out that honor belongs to the regular 100 step Repel. That is one L I did NOT see coming.
@@mistercbody As a reminder, you could also look into other items to check their cost ratio such as the various potions; especially since potions had their HP restoring values changed over the various generations.
The most cost efficent repel is an ekans in a pokeball. Intimidate reduces wild encounter rate if the ekans is high level, and obviously the funny snek lasts forever. Also, ekans can participate in battle! Another great intimidate pokemon to use is Gyarados, as magikarp is easy to find, and can easily be caught in any ball.
VERY important consideration: often when you're using a repel, you'll get out of the tall grass and the repel is still up. so you're are actually wasting a lot of steps by getting a max repel. the best way would be to calculate how many steps get wasted on average, but thats hard to calculate. But im assuming that max repels will be even more expensive per (used) step and normal repels will cost around the same as super repels or even less. so the best strategy: buy mostly super repels and a few normal ones for cases where you don't need many steps.
The prices kind of make sense compared to reallife prices of stuff. The cheap option usually isnt the best value for your buck and neither is the premium. I feel like that is what they were going for.
I think instead of taking random big numbers like 1000 and 20 000 you should show a graphic with x and y axis, showing how fast one efficiency rise faster, than another. Great video anyways!
I use regular repels for a couple main reasons: a) most of the time 1 repel is plenty for the grass tiles you need to walk through, and being slightly less money efficient in longer areas like caves is worth it for b) bag economy: while the most efficient strategy would be to buy exactly as many repels as you need of each type, in the older games, pre automatic repel reapplication you also tend to have a pretty limited inventory, so I'd rather just buy the one I'll need most often, which is usually just the regular repel
Maybe TMs or game corner prizes could make good videos. The TM one could analyze prices and methods of getting, comparing price + accessibility. Similarly, game corner can compare the prizes with alternative methods like catching in the wild and the most efficient gambling machines to use or something. Anyway, good video.
The biggest Scam is honestly the need to open the Bag again after a Repel runs out.. In the older Gens at least. Thankfully there's patches, or even small lil programs that contains multiple patches that fixes that! I honestly can't play old gens anymore without at least Running indoor, Repel popup after it expire (Like in Gen5 basically), Re-usable TMs, and Alternative Trade Evolutions
there's one more variable: when using a max repel in order to get the best use from it, you need to walk the 250 steps in places that you cannot avoid wild battles. If you use it close to the end of a cave, for example, you wasted part of the effect, therefore wasting your money
Keep in mind when applying a new repel, its not always necessary to do it right away, as you might not be in grass for a moment and can hold off until you enter wild areas again No need to repel in a city, so if aomeone is going from town to town, then they only need to apply a repel when they are actually in the grass
I think the timing of the game that you have access to the diff type of repels should come into consideration. Later on, money is easier to get, so early on youre sacrificing 500 money on repels, but later on, 700 per max repel is really affordable. Though I agree that Super Repels are probably the best, however, in DPP, I only use max repels because I pokeradar there a lot, so the few seconda saved are usefuo
TBH I think one of the things is, how often do you NEED an extra 50 steps. Most paths when you're trying to avoid pokemon aren't actually that many steps in my memory.
Fun tip never use a repel unless you're over leveled for the area. The experience you get from random encounters adds up quickly and can contribute to help become over leveled making the campaign easier. If you want to hit a brick wall real quick try a run without knocking out any wild pokemon. Most of the titles after the vs seeker was removed have a point where there's not enough trainers to keep you around the level the game expects you to be without wild experience.
I have always been using Lemonade + Lava Cookie + Great Ball + Super Repel + Hyper Potion over end game items because they are such SCAM. Max Repel, Super Potion, Full Heal being some of the biggest ones.
I’m currently in the process of researching this so stay tuned for a full breakdown in the next few weeks. There will be another video that I upload in between this and that one🫡
Tbh it always bothered me they never made Repels work like this: * 250 for base Repel, effect lasts for 100 steps. * 500 for Super one, effect for 200 steps. * 750 for max ones, effect for 300 steps.
You brought up how you get the repels at different points in the game. This should be noted since the max repels do save you time and at a stage in the game where you’re more likely to be legendary hunting then grinding. The time they save would be more important then the cost, so late into the game.
Something to consider is the length of routes. I often found myself with extra wasted steps when using a max repel. I wonder which type fits better the number of steps you have to take where you could get an encounter in each route without waste.
The great thing is that you can find more than enough of them just laying around the world. Does it matter that these are probably stashes belonging to someone? No sir, finders keepers
You missed an important variable, my sanity. Your bag is mostly empty in a normal playthrough it's full of lots of items and having to scroll through my bags to get to the supers is more tedious than I can handle so I always go for max. Just as an added note if you like to use the daycare and want to get that magikarp right on the cusp of hitting level 20 look at how much XP you need and use repels to count the steps.
Repels as the biggest scam? Try potions. Hands down, dollar for hitpoint, the best source of healing in the game is not medicine. It's _bottled water._ From gen 1 to 6, bottled water sells for ¥200 and heals 50 hp. That's a return of 1 HP for every ¥4. In gen 7 and beyond, it's 200 for 30, which is 6.67~. Bottled Water is the superior healing item all the way up to Max Potions in literally every single generation except gen 9. And for Max Potions or Full Restores to be worth using, you need to be healing the equivalent monetary value in HP, plus a status condition in the case of the full restore. Max potion is worth 2500, 12.5 waters, which means you need to heal either 625 HP (gens 1-6) or 375 hp (gens 7 onwards). Full Restore meanwhile is worth 15 fresh waters, or 12 and a full heal in gens 1-6. In gen 7 onwards it's worth 15/13 and a full heal. Meaning you need to heal 750 hp/600hp and a condition in gens 1-6, and in gen 7 onward you would need to heal 450 or 390 + a condition to equal the healing value of fresh water. The biggest scam in Pokemon is the potion racket. Here are the numbers, in terms of dollars/hit points Gens 1-6 Potion: 300/20=15/1 Super Potion: 750/50=14/1 Hyper Potion: 1200/200=6/1 Fresh Water: 200/50=4/1 Max Potion=12.5 waters Full Restore(hp only)=15 waters Full Restore(hp+condition)=12 waters+1 full heal Gen 7 on: Potion: 200/20=10/1 Super Potion:700/60=11.67/1 Hyper Potion:1500/120=12.5/1 Water:200/30=6.67/1 Max Potion: 12.5 waters Full Restore (HP only): 15 waters Full Restore (HP+condition): 13 waters+1 full heal Mathematically, if you value your ingame money over your irl time, it's 100% worth it to just spam buy waters until you hit the item cap or run out of money. In fact, I would only keep ten of each other potion item in my inventory specifically for in battle burst healing. You can get by on nothing but water, full heals, normal revives, and leppa berries in between combats. All other restoratives should be exclusively preserved for burst healing in combat, and only purchased in limited quantities.
i have never used a single repel my whole life out of fear of missing shinies, this benefited me as the only shiny i got from random encounter was from a cave in omega ruby
I see that what I wanted to say has already been addressed in the comments, but the major flaw in this video is valuing cost per step as though all steps were equal. The real question is "How many steps will get me through the Ice Cavern, Dark Tunnel, Mt. Moon, or Rock Tunnel?". How many steps do you need to take going into tall grass on one side of a route to coming out of the last patch of grass on the other? Any steps taken on proper pathing without grass, not surfing on water, or running around in general is reducing the efficiency of any and all of the repels, making the question a lot more complicated. If you are running around a town, going to a pokemon center, doing shopping, doing a gym, or visiting a house that may have a TM or item you want, that's just wasting steps on a repel when maybe you only needed 40 steps to get you through.
Now *this* is how you test the value and efficacy of a product. I wouldn't say Max Repel is a scam per se, since it's still 2.5x as efficient as Repel at only 2x the cost, but you've certainly demonstrated it's less cost-effective than Super Repel. It's more like the difference between ordering pizza vs. buying a decent-quality frozen pizza from the supermarket.
I'm still buying max repels because I'll end up with 100K pokedollars by the end of my playthrough anyway, unless I'm going for a specific TM or porygon
Hey thank you for an awesome video! I worked out how to give a definitive answer to which repel is the best value for money. You need to work out how much time the repel is saving you compared to having encounters turned on. So if you do a thousand steps with encounters turned on and time it, say it took 5min = 30s. (You'd need to do this 10 times and take the average obviously because it's going to be random.) Then you can say like, repel saves 300-161 = 139s, and this costs $3500. So the time saved per 100$ would be 139/35 = 3.97s per 100$. And you can calculate this value for super and max as well, and the one with the highest value will be the most economical.
And then if you really wanted to, you could calculate your earnings per minute, in game. (like play the game and earn some money and divide by the playtime to see what your hourly rate is). Then you can calculate the effective hourly rate of using your repel by doing 1/(time saved per 100$), and compare this with your earnings, to see if using the repel is actually a good idea for you compared to just earning more money by battling trainers. (I.e. like, 1/(3.97s per 100$) = 25 $ per s = 1500 $ per minute would be the effective earning rate of using a repel in the example that I made up)
Once I figured out that Super Repels are a better value for your money, I never again used any other. I also only use them in caves, sea or annoying routes/forests.
I've always thought super repels were best. BUT, in gen three, I always eventually use max due to the issue you brought up. No convenient press. I think you can register repels? But even if you could, it means your bike/item finder won't be registered. Which, honestly could still be worth it in certain portions of the game.
when I saw the difference between super and max repels I honestly thought to myself. "I really don't need those extra 50 steps for $150 more" I'm glad I made the right choice lol.
My eyes have been open no longer will I be scammed. I'll be buying into corporate greed, from now on I'll only be buying mid grade items regardless of branding. Goodbye grey goose, hello absolute vodka
i use max mostly, but it is simply a consequence of the way i play. Going through a more linear entry in the series, i am too busy trying to catch every pokemon along the way to make progress on the dex and keep my options open to even bother using repels. By the time my dex is complete enough for me to want to actively avoid wild battles, i have enough badges to buy max repels, and simply do so not because of economic concerns, but because it is the highest available tier, and i will mostly use them for surfing and caves, anyway- the 2 areas where there are no reprieves from encounter tiles. Any repels i use prior to that point of trying to navigate the region unhindered are for the specific use of trying to cheese rarer encounters like Hoenn Ralts, who only appears at lvl 4 as the highest level in the grass they can appear and is otherwise extremely rare and hard to find without lvl 3 lead repel strats. Of course, all of that logic disappears in the open world, where, outside of some small and hard to see pokemon, it is simply easier to navigate around them over spraying a repel to stop them from approaching, especially since very few are actually aggressive. If anything, i buy max repels for the same reason i buy max restores. the small premium to include a full heal in my max potion is not enough to keep a separate stack of max potions, and by the time either are efficient enough to use for the amount they recover, i am much more likely to be affected by an ailment when i need the healing than i am to need only healing, especially alongside recovery-type moves (any draining attack, as well as those that share the effect of recover with extra steps like weather). Is there a scam video in there? i dont know, i havent ever considered it.
Depends on the game, super repel Supremacy is fine in Black and White 2 and onwards when I click the a button twice to replenish, but if I got to go into the start menu and find the damn thing every time it runs out, I'm paying the markup to do that less often, it's not about the time for me, it's about the annoyance
been using super repels for years, more cost effective. It allows you to buy enough of them to never need to rebuy them (I usually buy like what, 40?) and enables buying more balls or HP items. Or TMs.
On my late post game files I have max money with nothing to spend it on, max repels could cost ten times as much and I'd still buy them just ro burn through money and save that little bit of time.
In gen 5 I've gotten to the point where 2 minutes is 11,818 pokédollars because I can do amulet coin in the Pokémon League in 22 minutes and get 130,000 and when I've put 650 hours and plan to do much more max repels are better. Though in mid game super repels are better and early game, regular repels are best as the only option.
Yeah thats why when playing older games, I legit only use hyper potions, carry around all medicines like antidotes and carry very few full restores: I use the hyper and the antidotes (and what not) outside of battles like doing Elite 4 where you can heal between battles but for IN battles, I prefer full restore as it prevents losing an extra turn to use. I still deem the max potions/full restores for the most part as wastes of money but they do have their moments..... Just way cheaper not to use them outside of battles 😂 Also I have never used repels except in like rock tunnel because I am constantly lost in there so....I never stopped to think about how much money I waste on them because I barely use them.
Ok, hear me out, my logic (and I assume the devs' logic) is that I'm probably only going a few hundred steps at most at any given time with a repel active, and I don't need 100% uptime. Now, I never played a ton of gen 3, but in my (not optimized, dumb kid brain) experiences with 5 and 6, super repels would run out just a little too quickly for certain paths, while max repels would last long enough to cover the full distance. So either I waste a lot more money overall on another repel, or I spend the extra money for the max repel, which is less efficient per step but wastes fewer steps. So in the long run, I spend less money with max repels. Short answer: 1000$ for 400 steps when I only need ~225 steps, or 700$ for 250.
Like with most tech these days, repels are a nuisance tax. I find max repels to be worth the extra bucks to delay the mental effort just 50 extra steps
Just FYI the reason Max Repel is bad is because of programming issues. The original intent was for the Max Repel to be 300 steps, which makes it most cost effective and least problematic, but the gameboy only handled maths in 0-255, maths which larger numbers required more checks and code associated with it that would hold up development. So they reduced it to 250, still more than the super repel, but 50 short of the intent.
Unsigned 8 bit byte can represent up to 255 and is used to store game data for various things in older games. Not really about calculation or math so much as tracking game data.
4:51 Ah YES, i love it when economics people just start making a bunch of wrong assumptions to make their model easier, it never stops being funny to me (because im also doing it myself xD).
The first and most basic economic theory assumes that people are rational, so if the dude who came up with the main principle of economics can build on lies, then I think we’re able to bend the rest of our assumptions a little😼
I've never used a single Repel in any Pokemon playthrough. Most of the time i just get OHKOs and value the Experience Points and move on. I can undertand if others with a weak team needing to make it back to a center, or speedrunners use them tho.
repels in gen 1 instead of literally repelling all Pokémon it’s repels weaker Pokémon making you only being able to run into the strongest Pokémon in the route, for example in the abandoned mansion if you use max repels you could run into multiple level 40 weezings in a row along with encounters being further apart in general
I normally use repel when i'm taking lesser steps in grassy area, and when i'm travelling in the ocean, i'll be using max repel or net ball to catch pokemon. it's adaptable. i mean you can choose to ignore all these concepts of the game that suggest you to act a certain way, and that's totally fine. however, when i was playing, i just want to feel knowledgeable and addressable for my actions through application.
depends tbh. If you're doing a normal playthrough than super repels are better because of that money you save but if it's something like a hardcore nuzlocke than probably max repels because you don't really need to spend money on stuff like potions. Just pokeballs mostly
yoo that's so funny you made this video i'm currently playing gen 5 for the first time and I noticed the same thing I was buying some repels and thought mhhh 200 pokedollars for just 50 steps more that seems like a scam and i calculated that i would spend 2.5 pokedollars per step with super repels and 2.8 pokedollars per step with max repels so i've always gone with super repels and then i've seen your video, perfect timing haha anyways, nice breakdown of the repel scam situation and don't worry it mattered to me too
I think about this stuff a lot too. Like, how much more efficient is it to use the cheaper soda pops in Pokemon emerald vs hyper potion in terms of time and money?
Also when I was a kid I would blow my money on the most expensive equipment bc it made me feel cool and then have no money when it came time to take on the league, as like a 5 year old
Yeah, I remember watching Pokemon RUclipsrs back in the late 2000s playing HGSS & LGFR and saying that Super Repels were the best, and its great to see that more than a decade later someone finally did the math to back it up.
Are Ultra Balls really a scam? When you're catching a mon, a turn can be the difference between explosion or something else that goes wrong. I beg to say it's more optimal to use them than Super Balls. Less true for Max Repels, whose only benefit is ease of use (less to reapply while bicycling to hatch eggs for instance if a patch of grass stands in your way) and inventory management.
I think as a kid I subconsciously came to the conclusion that the middle option was the best just for the sole reason super repels are more common in shops in pokemon
Overall pretty good analysis, but I do want to bring up the inaccuracy with Poké, or Pokédollar; it's based on the Japanese Yen, so it's not, say 3.5 Pokédollars, its just 350 Poké. Essentially, rather than dollars and cents (or fractional dollars) it's just a currency. For comparison, imagine if our USD is measured in just pennies rather than dollars; for example a gallon of gas is ¢270 instead of $2.70, with larger coins and dollar bills existing just to consolidate it so you don't have to carry hundreds of pennies.
Have these numbers changed in Gen 7? Ever since SM, the descriptions of the repels became more ambiguous and I’m not sure if the repels have had their step counts changed.
thanks for watching! let me know some other potential scams to investigate for the future
Let's talk about how they started diluting the Hyper Potions after gen 6. They used to be a solid endgame option with 200 HP healing, and then they watered them down to 120 and sold them for the same price!! It's frankly insulting
More like hypo potions at this point😔
THEY CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS
Although, at the same time, Super Potions were made better, going from 50 to 60, while also staying the same price.
Rich boy Winston does not care. He will still use Full Restores regardless
But didn't they also add fresh water, soda pop, and lemonade, as more efficient healing items?
Screw max repels, all my homies use super repels
@@kentoryah amen brother
screw full restores, all my homies use lemonade + full heal
@@cebolimhagameplays6740lemonade is goated
@@cebolimhagameplays6740hyper potion + fullheals
@@cebolimhagameplays6740lemonade and a lava cookie on a sunny afternoon has me chilling in my hammock 😎
One thing that is important to mention that you don't ever address in this video is that having a repel up only actually matters when you're moving through tall grass, caves, or water, and very few of these patches are larger than 100 steps in length. A lot of the money that goes into higher grade repels, especially max repels, is wasted because of this. There's no reason to spend the extra money on a longer repel when it's mostly going to be used on spaces between the grass, and towns!
True, that’s why I said I know it’s not a great assumption but for simplicity sake just gave a step count
I really only use, or have used, them in the caves or on water where every step is an encounter tile. But those have become shorter and less common so I just use way fewer repels over all now.
You pay a premium for convenience, that’s it
@@unfunny5928 I use super repels most of the game still, just that I don't agree that the money is wasted past 100 steps because of caves where you go more than 100 steps at once
And in the Alola games it's even more of a ripoff because roto loto can get you a roto stealth if you're lucky, and that tends to last much longer than even max repels anyway!
You've done Pokeballs and Repels, next one has got to be Potions, including other health healing items like Fresh Water and Lemonade
that was actually the next topic on my list🤔
Im too lazy to buy one at a time.
It's crazy that fresh water heals almost as much as a super potion.
@@mistercbodyDon't forget Moomoo Milk. It's actually a pretty good alternative.
BW2 completely killed Max Repel with the Repel prompt after they run out. Now, the only point of ever using a Max Repel post-BW is if you find one off the floor.
Which may be why you find so much on the floor, now that you mention it.
@@shytendeakatamanoir9740Now THAT'S what I call good advertising. Nonetheless, max repels still suck lol.
April fools video definitely needs to be about how the bike without a voucher is a SCAM
I just commented about that!!! 😆
Ironically the bike isn't that overpriced, considering how overpriced real bikes are.
It is more overpriced but still it's surprisingly realistic.
@@Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz1024is 1 million dolar for a bike is not overpriced? IM Amazed with your common sense
@@Jarlulfric4202the pokedollar is closer to yen than actual dollars, so it's actually nowhere near 1 million dollars
@@Jarlulfric4202Pokemon currency are closer to Yen than Dollars. Think of the Lemonade on the top of the Lilycove City Shopping center for example is P350 or the cookie from MT.Pyre costing P200. That would be insane prices if P1 is equivalent to 1 dollar.
Please do use yours before demanding other people use their common sense. Thank you.
Super potions are also a scam. Normal potions and the vending machine drinks are way better bang for buck.
Those aren’t a scam because you can use potions in battle and heal more in one turn. Even if you don’t use items in battle, using regular potions to heal to max by the mid to late game takes a long time.
@pxm2337 lemonades are cheaper and heal 80 instead of 50. So just going from potions to lemonades is better and skip over super potions. Hyper potions are also more efficient in late game. Potions are 200 and heal 20, super potions are 700 and heal 50, hyper potions are 2000 and heal 200. (Numbers for hyper and potion may be slightly off. I think potions might be 300 and hypers 1500 so hypers are even more efficient.)
The only issue with the vending machine drinks are that they take a long time to buy in bulk.
Of course, buying 10 or so Lemonades isn't that big of a deal imo, but I can easily see some people skipping that in favor of clicking right once on the PokeMart buy menu.
@@quickpawmaudyeah but u csnt buy lemonades in bulk
@@lhancedalisay2665 depends on the game. Some of them you can. Most games you can buy as many as you want just have to buy one at a time. Moomoo milk is also a thing in a lot of the games and that is also super cheap and you can always buy in bulk.
0:46 I Love seeing someone combining their education with passion
i always go fresh water and lemonade over super potions when possible till i'm at the end of the game then i buy a bunch of Full Restores and Revives and Hyper Potions and Full Heals. if a game has MooMoo Milk i go with that and stock up on that.
it seems that potions / heals have a lot of room to investigate some economic inefficiencies
Sucks that they nerfed them hard in newer games
@@tiecoonracoon3630But despite that, they're still better (mostly because Hyper Potion was badly nerfed too)
If it didn't take so long to buy them I'd use them in place of hyper potions too, since one of my personal rules I try to stick to is "no items in battle", so that might be a good "time is money" calculation
@@GroundThing you really wanna get that Pokemon Wifi Experience against those NPCs.
If you value your time at more than 135,000 pokedollar per hour, max repels are the better deal.
I also think it mirrors the real world in a cool way. base repels are cheap garbage, they draw you in with their low price but you end up spending morebecause their quality is so low, super repels are a good trade off between price and quality, and max repels you pay top dollar to squeeze the last bit of quality that barely even matters out.
So it scales with your earning potential? That could be an interesting video on its own
@@nick.hammes I just took the 8 seconds savings vs the 300 pokédollars savings and multiplied it out to an hourly rate of what you get payed to use super instead of max repels.
Repel Theory
I know this is a bit nitpicky but you started the timer after spraying the first repels on each run. This will mess with your numbers slightly when scaling to the 20,000 step calculation because in that scenario you are essentially remove the bag time once every 2000 steps. It really doesn't affect the differences between the total times but would add a flat amount of time (about 80 seconds) to all 3 calculations. This really isn't super important. When you're doing calculations, like these, small inaccuracies can creep in if not accounted for and have an effect especially in ratio comparisons.
Otherwise great video! Keep at it.
As a true cheapskate I NEVER bought a SINGLE repel in any of the Pokemon games. ...I also never used any repels that I've found in the game's world because, hell if I know, I might've need it later!
...oh boy, do I regret all those hours from my childhood that I could waste in other ways...
Anyway, really informative video and quite pleasing aesthically too!
I’m the king of not using something now in fear I need it more later (like escape ropes) and then at the end of the game I have 10 escape ropes and never used one lmao, so I feel you. And thanks so much, glad you enjoyed!
This kind of video is more up your alley for covering; where you can break down cost like this based on what items provide. Though a lot of Pokemon Fans already knew that Super Repels are the most worthwhile because their cost-per-step ratio is the lowest of the three.
Will admit, I did NOT see regular repels taking the ultimate L here. Most fans would think Max Repels are the worst to buy from the mart, but it turns out that honor belongs to the regular 100 step Repel. That is one L I did NOT see coming.
Thank you king🤝
@@mistercbody As a reminder, you could also look into other items to check their cost ratio such as the various potions; especially since potions had their HP restoring values changed over the various generations.
The most cost efficent repel is an ekans in a pokeball. Intimidate reduces wild encounter rate if the ekans is high level, and obviously the funny snek lasts forever. Also, ekans can participate in battle! Another great intimidate pokemon to use is Gyarados, as magikarp is easy to find, and can easily be caught in any ball.
VERY important consideration: often when you're using a repel, you'll get out of the tall grass and the repel is still up. so you're are actually wasting a lot of steps by getting a max repel.
the best way would be to calculate how many steps get wasted on average, but thats hard to calculate.
But im assuming that max repels will be even more expensive per (used) step and normal repels will cost around the same as super repels or even less.
so the best strategy: buy mostly super repels and a few normal ones for cases where you don't need many steps.
The prices kind of make sense compared to reallife prices of stuff. The cheap option usually isnt the best value for your buck and neither is the premium. I feel like that is what they were going for.
its not about money, its about going less often into the menue
this guy gets it
I'll take didn't watch the video for five hundred
😂accidentally hits the wrong item... professor oak says there's a time and place......
😂😂😂
I predict a boom to your viewership soon. The recommendation gods brought me to you
It’s nice to get high quality video suggestions from channels with less subs
All hail the rec gods🙏 - but seriously, thanks! I hope so🤞
I think instead of taking random big numbers like 1000 and 20 000 you should show a graphic with x and y axis, showing how fast one efficiency rise faster, than another. Great video anyways!
thank you! Good suggestion
Since I was little I have been buying superrepels, I always thought "I'm not going to pay that much for just 50 steps"
I use regular repels for a couple main reasons: a) most of the time 1 repel is plenty for the grass tiles you need to walk through, and being slightly less money efficient in longer areas like caves is worth it for b) bag economy: while the most efficient strategy would be to buy exactly as many repels as you need of each type, in the older games, pre automatic repel reapplication you also tend to have a pretty limited inventory, so I'd rather just buy the one I'll need most often, which is usually just the regular repel
as a shiny hunter max repels have probably saved me hours of my life that i would have spent reapplying supers, this conclusion is SLANDER
"I needed to heal anyway after that aqua grunt, might as well pop another repel."
Maybe TMs or game corner prizes could make good videos. The TM one could analyze prices and methods of getting, comparing price + accessibility. Similarly, game corner can compare the prizes with alternative methods like catching in the wild and the most efficient gambling machines to use or something.
Anyway, good video.
Thanks! Great suggestions too, I was thinking about the game corner lately also tbh
Imo the game corner is the best money sink in pokemon since actually gambling in pokemon except D/P/PT is a waste of time
The biggest Scam is honestly the need to open the Bag again after a Repel runs out.. In the older Gens at least.
Thankfully there's patches, or even small lil programs that contains multiple patches that fixes that! I honestly can't play old gens anymore without at least Running indoor, Repel popup after it expire (Like in Gen5 basically), Re-usable TMs, and Alternative Trade Evolutions
Regular repels need to be reported to the SEC
Nancy pelosi has just disclosed a 12 million dollar investment in base repel
Pokemon world: free health care
Also, pokemon World: 1 million dollars for a bike
there's one more variable: when using a max repel in order to get the best use from it, you need to walk the 250 steps in places that you cannot avoid wild battles. If you use it close to the end of a cave, for example, you wasted part of the effect, therefore wasting your money
Keep in mind when applying a new repel, its not always necessary to do it right away, as you might not be in grass for a moment and can hold off until you enter wild areas again
No need to repel in a city, so if aomeone is going from town to town, then they only need to apply a repel when they are actually in the grass
I think the timing of the game that you have access to the diff type of repels should come into consideration. Later on, money is easier to get, so early on youre sacrificing 500 money on repels, but later on, 700 per max repel is really affordable. Though I agree that Super Repels are probably the best, however, in DPP, I only use max repels because I pokeradar there a lot, so the few seconda saved are usefuo
TBH I think one of the things is, how often do you NEED an extra 50 steps. Most paths when you're trying to avoid pokemon aren't actually that many steps in my memory.
I like Max repel cuz I hate having to reuse repels in caves especially windy and long one like the Puzzle caves and Victory Road
Fun tip never use a repel unless you're over leveled for the area. The experience you get from random encounters adds up quickly and can contribute to help become over leveled making the campaign easier. If you want to hit a brick wall real quick try a run without knocking out any wild pokemon. Most of the titles after the vs seeker was removed have a point where there's not enough trainers to keep you around the level the game expects you to be without wild experience.
I have always been using Lemonade + Lava Cookie + Great Ball + Super Repel + Hyper Potion over end game items because they are such SCAM. Max Repel, Super Potion, Full Heal being some of the biggest ones.
I’m currently in the process of researching this so stay tuned for a full breakdown in the next few weeks. There will be another video that I upload in between this and that one🫡
I wish they taught math like this in school
Tbh it always bothered me they never made Repels work like this:
* 250 for base Repel, effect lasts for 100 steps.
* 500 for Super one, effect for 200 steps.
* 750 for max ones, effect for 300 steps.
You brought up how you get the repels at different points in the game. This should be noted since the max repels do save you time and at a stage in the game where you’re more likely to be legendary hunting then grinding. The time they save would be more important then the cost, so late into the game.
Something to consider is the length of routes. I often found myself with extra wasted steps when using a max repel. I wonder which type fits better the number of steps you have to take where you could get an encounter in each route without waste.
The great thing is that you can find more than enough of them just laying around the world.
Does it matter that these are probably stashes belonging to someone? No sir, finders keepers
@@BierBart12 youngster Joey dropped this repel that his mom gave him? Don’t mind if I do, it’s mine now
You missed an important variable, my sanity. Your bag is mostly empty in a normal playthrough it's full of lots of items and having to scroll through my bags to get to the supers is more tedious than I can handle so I always go for max.
Just as an added note if you like to use the daycare and want to get that magikarp right on the cusp of hitting level 20 look at how much XP you need and use repels to count the steps.
I never or maybe rarely used repels as a kid. Seemed like a waste of money to ward off exp and potential rare pokemon
Repels as the biggest scam? Try potions.
Hands down, dollar for hitpoint, the best source of healing in the game is not medicine. It's _bottled water._
From gen 1 to 6, bottled water sells for ¥200 and heals 50 hp. That's a return of 1 HP for every ¥4. In gen 7 and beyond, it's 200 for 30, which is 6.67~.
Bottled Water is the superior healing item all the way up to Max Potions in literally every single generation except gen 9. And for Max Potions or Full Restores to be worth using, you need to be healing the equivalent monetary value in HP, plus a status condition in the case of the full restore.
Max potion is worth 2500, 12.5 waters, which means you need to heal either 625 HP (gens 1-6) or 375 hp (gens 7 onwards).
Full Restore meanwhile is worth 15 fresh waters, or 12 and a full heal in gens 1-6. In gen 7 onwards it's worth 15/13 and a full heal. Meaning you need to heal 750 hp/600hp and a condition in gens 1-6, and in gen 7 onward you would need to heal 450 or 390 + a condition to equal the healing value of fresh water.
The biggest scam in Pokemon is the potion racket.
Here are the numbers, in terms of dollars/hit points
Gens 1-6
Potion: 300/20=15/1
Super Potion: 750/50=14/1
Hyper Potion: 1200/200=6/1
Fresh Water: 200/50=4/1
Max Potion=12.5 waters
Full Restore(hp only)=15 waters
Full Restore(hp+condition)=12 waters+1 full heal
Gen 7 on:
Potion: 200/20=10/1
Super Potion:700/60=11.67/1
Hyper Potion:1500/120=12.5/1
Water:200/30=6.67/1
Max Potion: 12.5 waters
Full Restore (HP only): 15 waters
Full Restore (HP+condition): 13 waters+1 full heal
Mathematically, if you value your ingame money over your irl time, it's 100% worth it to just spam buy waters until you hit the item cap or run out of money.
In fact, I would only keep ten of each other potion item in my inventory specifically for in battle burst healing.
You can get by on nothing but water, full heals, normal revives, and leppa berries in between combats. All other restoratives should be exclusively preserved for burst healing in combat, and only purchased in limited quantities.
Funny you made this comment because the next video I’ll be dropping is on this very topic🤝
i have never used a single repel my whole life out of fear of missing shinies, this benefited me as the only shiny i got from random encounter was from a cave in omega ruby
I used to do the same thing and have never encountered a shiny in all my years. Only one I ever got was a shiny shinx by accident in PLA lol
Thanks for helping me decide how to more efficiently spend my $9,999,999
that’s what im here for
I now spend mine on mints and vitamins 👀 😆
I see that what I wanted to say has already been addressed in the comments, but the major flaw in this video is valuing cost per step as though all steps were equal. The real question is "How many steps will get me through the Ice Cavern, Dark Tunnel, Mt. Moon, or Rock Tunnel?". How many steps do you need to take going into tall grass on one side of a route to coming out of the last patch of grass on the other? Any steps taken on proper pathing without grass, not surfing on water, or running around in general is reducing the efficiency of any and all of the repels, making the question a lot more complicated. If you are running around a town, going to a pokemon center, doing shopping, doing a gym, or visiting a house that may have a TM or item you want, that's just wasting steps on a repel when maybe you only needed 40 steps to get you through.
Now *this* is how you test the value and efficacy of a product. I wouldn't say Max Repel is a scam per se, since it's still 2.5x as efficient as Repel at only 2x the cost, but you've certainly demonstrated it's less cost-effective than Super Repel. It's more like the difference between ordering pizza vs. buying a decent-quality frozen pizza from the supermarket.
*I'm so glad I found this channel, ya'll putting me on game*
🫡🫡🫡
I'm still buying max repels because I'll end up with 100K pokedollars by the end of my playthrough anyway, unless I'm going for a specific TM or porygon
There's always that moment come late game where you simply start buying 30+ Full Restores as if saying " *fuck it, I'm rich enough* " 💀
Hey thank you for an awesome video! I worked out how to give a definitive answer to which repel is the best value for money.
You need to work out how much time the repel is saving you compared to having encounters turned on. So if you do a thousand steps with encounters turned on and time it, say it took 5min = 30s. (You'd need to do this 10 times and take the average obviously because it's going to be random.)
Then you can say like, repel saves 300-161 = 139s, and this costs $3500. So the time saved per 100$ would be 139/35 = 3.97s per 100$. And you can calculate this value for super and max as well, and the one with the highest value will be the most economical.
And then if you really wanted to, you could calculate your earnings per minute, in game. (like play the game and earn some money and divide by the playtime to see what your hourly rate is).
Then you can calculate the effective hourly rate of using your repel by doing 1/(time saved per 100$), and compare this with your earnings, to see if using the repel is actually a good idea for you compared to just earning more money by battling trainers.
(I.e. like, 1/(3.97s per 100$) = 25 $ per s = 1500 $ per minute would be the effective earning rate of using a repel in the example that I made up)
Once I figured out that Super Repels are a better value for your money, I never again used any other. I also only use them in caves, sea or annoying routes/forests.
I've always thought super repels were best. BUT, in gen three, I always eventually use max due to the issue you brought up. No convenient press. I think you can register repels? But even if you could, it means your bike/item finder won't be registered. Which, honestly could still be worth it in certain portions of the game.
when I saw the difference between super and max repels I honestly thought to myself. "I really don't need those extra 50 steps for $150 more"
I'm glad I made the right choice lol.
My eyes have been open no longer will I be scammed. I'll be buying into corporate greed, from now on I'll only be buying mid grade items regardless of branding. Goodbye grey goose, hello absolute vodka
Kirkland brand everything from now until the end of your days
@@mistercbody exactly
Me looking to the absolute vodka in my shelf and feeling like a cheap stake.
i use max mostly, but it is simply a consequence of the way i play. Going through a more linear entry in the series, i am too busy trying to catch every pokemon along the way to make progress on the dex and keep my options open to even bother using repels. By the time my dex is complete enough for me to want to actively avoid wild battles, i have enough badges to buy max repels, and simply do so not because of economic concerns, but because it is the highest available tier, and i will mostly use them for surfing and caves, anyway- the 2 areas where there are no reprieves from encounter tiles. Any repels i use prior to that point of trying to navigate the region unhindered are for the specific use of trying to cheese rarer encounters like Hoenn Ralts, who only appears at lvl 4 as the highest level in the grass they can appear and is otherwise extremely rare and hard to find without lvl 3 lead repel strats. Of course, all of that logic disappears in the open world, where, outside of some small and hard to see pokemon, it is simply easier to navigate around them over spraying a repel to stop them from approaching, especially since very few are actually aggressive.
If anything, i buy max repels for the same reason i buy max restores. the small premium to include a full heal in my max potion is not enough to keep a separate stack of max potions, and by the time either are efficient enough to use for the amount they recover, i am much more likely to be affected by an ailment when i need the healing than i am to need only healing, especially alongside recovery-type moves (any draining attack, as well as those that share the effect of recover with extra steps like weather). Is there a scam video in there? i dont know, i havent ever considered it.
Depends on the game, super repel Supremacy is fine in Black and White 2 and onwards when I click the a button twice to replenish, but if I got to go into the start menu and find the damn thing every time it runs out, I'm paying the markup to do that less often, it's not about the time for me, it's about the annoyance
By the time I need them I'm usually rich so it really does not matter if it costs a bit more, it's all about the small time saves
been using super repels for years, more cost effective. It allows you to buy enough of them to never need to rebuy them (I usually buy like what, 40?) and enables buying more balls or HP items. Or TMs.
Check out lava cookies in gen3
will add them to my list, cheers
@@mistercbody sodas too
@@mistercbody herbs maybe
@@Mojaveknight17yeah definitely herbs, comparing them to their Pokemart counterparts
On my late post game files I have max money with nothing to spend it on, max repels could cost ten times as much and I'd still buy them just ro burn through money and save that little bit of time.
Pokemon with Intimidate at the front of your party holding a cleanse tag, this decreases wild Pokemon encounters by 75% for free.
Great point, very important information for all the other cheapskates
In gen 5 I've gotten to the point where 2 minutes is 11,818 pokédollars because I can do amulet coin in the Pokémon League in 22 minutes and get 130,000 and when I've put 650 hours and plan to do much more max repels are better. Though in mid game super repels are better and early game, regular repels are best as the only option.
Whether Max Repels or Super Repels is better comes down to how much time it takes to earn the additional money needed to buy Max Repels.
Yeah thats why when playing older games, I legit only use hyper potions, carry around all medicines like antidotes and carry very few full restores:
I use the hyper and the antidotes (and what not) outside of battles like doing Elite 4 where you can heal between battles but for IN battles, I prefer full restore as it prevents losing an extra turn to use.
I still deem the max potions/full restores for the most part as wastes of money but they do have their moments..... Just way cheaper not to use them outside of battles 😂
Also I have never used repels except in like rock tunnel because I am constantly lost in there so....I never stopped to think about how much money I waste on them because I barely use them.
Ok, hear me out, my logic (and I assume the devs' logic) is that I'm probably only going a few hundred steps at most at any given time with a repel active, and I don't need 100% uptime. Now, I never played a ton of gen 3, but in my (not optimized, dumb kid brain) experiences with 5 and 6, super repels would run out just a little too quickly for certain paths, while max repels would last long enough to cover the full distance. So either I waste a lot more money overall on another repel, or I spend the extra money for the max repel, which is less efficient per step but wastes fewer steps. So in the long run, I spend less money with max repels.
Short answer: 1000$ for 400 steps when I only need ~225 steps, or 700$ for 250.
Very high quality video.. can't wait for the channel to blow up!
thanks so much! I hope we live to see the blow up🥹
When I was a kid, I would just nuke all the wild Pokémon for crumbs worth of exp
Like with most tech these days, repels are a nuisance tax.
I find max repels to be worth the extra bucks to delay the mental effort just 50 extra steps
Rattata/zigzagoon is best repels for shiny hunting with run away so all of repels are scam to me
Love these videos bro, keep them up.
glad you’re enjoying, will do🤝
but what if you don’t need it for all 200 steps? you might not use regular repels at double the rate
Just FYI the reason Max Repel is bad is because of programming issues.
The original intent was for the Max Repel to be 300 steps, which makes it most cost effective and least problematic, but the gameboy only handled maths in 0-255, maths which larger numbers required more checks and code associated with it that would hold up development. So they reduced it to 250, still more than the super repel, but 50 short of the intent.
Unsigned 8 bit byte can represent up to 255 and is used to store game data for various things in older games. Not really about calculation or math so much as tracking game data.
Know what else? Food quality has gone down. Fresh water used to heal 50, now? 30. Lemonade used to be 80, now? 60. What in arceus is going on
stay tuned for my next video in the next week or so😼
4:51 Ah YES, i love it when economics people just start making a bunch of wrong assumptions to make their model easier, it never stops being funny to me (because im also doing it myself xD).
The first and most basic economic theory assumes that people are rational, so if the dude who came up with the main principle of economics can build on lies, then I think we’re able to bend the rest of our assumptions a little😼
@@mistercbody which is why we are obviously living in a complete market, and everybody has the same preferences👍
I've never used a single Repel in any Pokemon playthrough. Most of the time i just get OHKOs and value the Experience Points and move on. I can undertand if others with a weak team needing to make it back to a center, or speedrunners use them tho.
The step counter in gen 4s poketch could have simplified this research
For their price max repels really should work for 300 steps.
repels in gen 1 instead of literally repelling all Pokémon it’s repels weaker Pokémon making you only being able to run into the strongest Pokémon in the route, for example in the abandoned mansion if you use max repels you could run into multiple level 40 weezings in a row along with encounters being further apart in general
I normally use repel when i'm taking lesser steps in grassy area, and when i'm travelling in the ocean, i'll be using max repel or net ball to catch pokemon. it's adaptable.
i mean you can choose to ignore all these concepts of the game that suggest you to act a certain way, and that's totally fine. however, when i was playing, i just want to feel knowledgeable and addressable for my actions through application.
Super repels are efficient goods while max repels are positional goods
The biggest scam in pokemon is potions. They cost more than fresh water and heals less.
I'm sad i didn't find another repel hater, but this was still a very interesting video, very nice subject
depends tbh. If you're doing a normal playthrough than super repels are better because of that money you save but if it's something like a hardcore nuzlocke than probably max repels because you don't really need to spend money on stuff like potions. Just pokeballs mostly
The escape ropes sold in the town just before diglet cave scam. & All escape ropes - because dig.
yoo that's so funny you made this video i'm currently playing gen 5 for the first time and I noticed the same thing
I was buying some repels and thought mhhh 200 pokedollars for just 50 steps more that seems like a scam and i calculated that i would spend 2.5 pokedollars per step with super repels and 2.8 pokedollars per step with max repels so i've always gone with super repels
and then i've seen your video, perfect timing haha
anyways, nice breakdown of the repel scam situation and don't worry it mattered to me too
this da needs to be a series of you fixing the pokémon economy
this may be the move
The real question, which is worth more.
An efficiency equation of pokedollars, or the extra time of your life spent reapplying weaker repels
i'm okay with max repels being way more costly
because they're covenient so that balances things out
I like the convenience of max repels when using repeated repels for an indeterminate amount of time, using Pokeradar and the like.
I think about this stuff a lot too. Like, how much more efficient is it to use the cheaper soda pops in Pokemon emerald vs hyper potion in terms of time and money?
When battling elite 4, full restore are just scam, waste of money, just buy hyper potion and some full heal
I prefer Mac Repels just because 50 more steps in the Sky Pillar puzzle
When you were talking about preferring to solve problems in the Pokémon world rather than the real one; it hit a little close to home 😵💫
Also when I was a kid I would blow my money on the most expensive equipment bc it made me feel cool and then have no money when it came time to take on the league, as like a 5 year old
We’re all much more similar than we think😼
Yeah, I remember watching Pokemon RUclipsrs back in the late 2000s playing HGSS & LGFR and saying that Super Repels were the best, and its great to see that more than a decade later someone finally did the math to back it up.
what about the part where you don't want repel anymore but you just applied one? hmm..
Are Ultra Balls really a scam? When you're catching a mon, a turn can be the difference between explosion or something else that goes wrong. I beg to say it's more optimal to use them than Super Balls. Less true for Max Repels, whose only benefit is ease of use (less to reapply while bicycling to hatch eggs for instance if a patch of grass stands in your way) and inventory management.
I think as a kid I subconsciously came to the conclusion that the middle option was the best just for the sole reason super repels are more common in shops in pokemon
Overall pretty good analysis, but I do want to bring up the inaccuracy with Poké, or Pokédollar; it's based on the Japanese Yen, so it's not, say 3.5 Pokédollars, its just 350 Poké. Essentially, rather than dollars and cents (or fractional dollars) it's just a currency.
For comparison, imagine if our USD is measured in just pennies rather than dollars; for example a gallon of gas is ¢270 instead of $2.70, with larger coins and dollar bills existing just to consolidate it so you don't have to carry hundreds of pennies.
Have these numbers changed in Gen 7? Ever since SM, the descriptions of the repels became more ambiguous and I’m not sure if the repels have had their step counts changed.