You do also have to remember that back when the game was brand new, it was considered more like demon souls. There were many who just decided it was non-canon.
Guys I found a great secret... those two games allow you to roll, I didn't even know you could roll in dark souls 2 since it was a completely different game. It took me by suprise to find out that these 2 games might be connected.
you forgot the "Majestic Greatsword" in Brume's Tower, in a chest at the bottom of the tower that Maldron invades at. Its pretty much just Artorias's Greatsword in both appearance and function. Its a normal greatsword when used normally, but if you have it in your left hand it gets unique moves that are just like the Abyss Greatsword. It even has the abysmal stat requirements you would expect from swords relating to Artorias lmao
The reason it can only be used in the left hand is because artorias was left handed, but when we fight him, he’s using his right arm, which was used to hold his great shield, which means he fought us with a major handicap, and we probably still died to him a lot of the time.
I dont think the Duke’s Dear Freya is a remnant, because when you beat her it says victory achieved. However if you touch the dragon’s remains it will say Great Soul Embraced, meaning that the ancient dragon is actually the remnant of the old lord souls.
Seath has probably degenerated into what Dark Souls II generally calls the Writhing Ruin a kind of force or disease that is constantly looking for it´s hearts desire and that has infected all the Insects within Brightstone Cove and Duke Tseldora as well that could explain why the Spiders occupy the carcass of an ancient Dragon as Seath himself was so obsessed with their Scales The Duke probably performed experiments on his dearest Pet Spider, explaining why she mutated more then the others and presumably became the leader of the pack
All right, to clear things up. Freya is not the remnant of Seath. Seath is alive and possessing her. The idea is that his souls never truly died (maybe because of one of his experiments to immortality) and would possess smaller beings to live. The reason why you don’t get to embrace by his souls is that it never was a great souls in the first place. In DS1, Gwyn gave a shard of his souls to Seath and it is why you had to hunt him. So Freya doesn’t have a great souls but the dead dragon does. Of course only remains of it is left which is enough to open the door. But you can go into his memory to his first fall and then get the full souls. in which behold! He has a great souls.
@@raphicoco mm, true. It was the fragment of Gwyn’s soul in Seath that we collected for the Lordvessel, not necessarily Seath’s own soul. That begs the question: why does the Old Iron King have fragments of the Four Kings in him? Doesn’t really make sense for a big, iron dragon to possess the soul of those Abyss dwellers..
One mistake that I noticed in the video was relating to Solaire/The Warriors of Sunlight. The God of the Sun that it was referencing was not Solaire, but rather Gwyn, maybe the Nameless King. Gwyn is the God of Sunlight/the Sun, and he is generally seen as a God and father, so the Covenant is named after him. However, the Nameless King is the leader of the Warriors of Sunlight and all the broken statues are of him. It is possible that the name of the covenant would be based upon the Nameless King, however he was the God of War.
The "child of the dragon" spoken of in the Aged Feather's description is more likely to be Shanalotte, the Emerald Herald. She was given her name by the Ancient Dragon, and she states: "I was born of dragons, contrived by men." I like your speculation/theory about the Hunter's Hat and the real identity of "Evlana".
Also, there's Aldia, the Scholar of the First Sin. "First Sin" refers to Gwyn's sacrifice to rekindle the First Flame, since it was there and then that we got stuck in a cycle that shouldn't be, resulting in the undead curse and the slow crumbling of the world as we see until DS3. Aldia was studying the event, trying to find a 3rd option: choose neither Fire nor Dark, neither kindling the flame nor letting the Abyss consume it. I'm not sure whether Aldia has any hand on this, but I like how we find the third option in DS3.
yep and dont know how and why, after finally he found the way, Aldia gave the trust to The Londor. A Way that the Flame can be controlled with our own will. Like he said "Young Hollow, there are but two paths.. Inherit the order of this world (the purpose of the usurpation of fire ending) or DESTROY IT (he doesnt point out the age of dark but the end of the world. Just imagine if we can do the path of a kind of ending like the Frienzied Flame from Elden Ring lol)"
Just a mention. In Irish folklore the consumption of an insect would be how the gods would impregnate a woman. I always kinda connected that to the chaos bug.
Nadalia separated her soul into pieces for Raime, the Fume Knight. After he lost to Velstadt he went looking for another king to serve. He went to the old Iron King but he was already gone. He met Nadalia there and they became friends, and she realized his power and separated herself to give it to him. That's why there's 4 Ashen Idols around his chamber and why you get the last piece of her soul when you beat him. She wanted to give him a piece of her and then protect him from dying so she would never be lonely again.
Dark Souls 2 has enormous effects on Dark Souls 3. The most noteworthy being the snuffing of the Flame of Chaos. In Dark Souls 2, Eleum Loyce had a portal to the Old Chaos that formed beneath it. The Ivory King descended into the chaos to snuff it out, and the Bearer of the Curse enters and has the portals frozen over by the Loyce Knights who he rescues. In Dark Souls 3, Demonkind is being eradicated because the flame of chaos has sputtered out. The Old Demon King is the last major vestige of chaotic power, and after him the Demon Princes are left to pick up the scraps. In the boss fight with the Old Demon King you can see mountains of demon corpses. Demonkind, once a plague, is now a dying race. Tangentially, ice magic originates in Eleum Loyce, and that has some unspoken connection to the Painting of Ariandel and subsequently Pontiff Sulyvahn. Who is the motive force for all major world events in Dark Souls 3. Unrelated: The Old Dragonslayer is probably the real Ornstein, because the Ornstein you fight in Anor Londo is an illusion. This was confirmed by the fact that Ornstein shows up and leaves his armor behind at the Nameless King's place.
@@SconesSmile Actually it still could be. As Old Dragonslayer is an optional fight in DS2 and From Soft has shown multiple times that non-mandatory fights don't happen in the canon, as shown by Gwyndolin being alive long enough to be devoured by Aldritch in DS3 even though you can kill him in DS1.
There is no "confirmed" in the souls games lol. There's circumstantial references, hints, suggestions, etc. but there is pretty much nothing that is actually confirmed. There's dozens of different plausible theories, based on a paragraph of lore. That's what makes Dark souls so memorable: Fromsoft gave us snippets, fragments of a story, and then we assemble it in our own way. That's why it's silly to have the know it all wannabes, who comment "you're wrong. This lore says blah, blah, blah, which PROVES you're wrong". There's a handful of things in the entire series that are confirmed, the rest is up to interpretation by the player 🙂
Or the flame of chaos is dying out because literally everything is dying out in DS3. It's a major theme of the game; every instance doesn't have to be explained through cross references.
I'm so glad to see more people know just how connected ds1 and 2 really are. It seems like arguments about this game are more about whether disconnectedness is good or bad, forgetting that thats not even what Ds2 is.
I've noticed most of the "objective" arguments made against DS2 are criticisms that can easily be made against the other Souls games. Things like easily exploitable AI, weird hitboxes, dev time cut short resulting in cut content/significant changes to the game, ect. At this point I'm starting to believe the real reason DS2 gets so much hate is because no one liked ADP. From Demon's Souls to Sekiro, Dark Souls 2 probably has the most irritating dodging mechanics (don't worry DS3, you aren't far behind). I'm sure if dodging felt better (especially in the early game) DS2 would have been better received and maybe people would be able to focus more on all the great things DS2 actually did right.
@@ReelBigFan To be honest a huge part of what made DS2 feel clunky at first were a combination of two things, one, the animations are really bad compared to ds1/3. I think they were mocapped instead of animated in the same way they are so the animations either feel too smooth for what they are (Maces), or way too clumsy (Greataxes). And another awful thing is most likely just to do with the steam port on mouse and keyboard. The controls by default have double click turned on whenever you boot up the game, even though it says double click is disabled. This makes single click inputs comically unresponsive, with even up to a second of delay, as the game waits to see if you double clicked, and if you click twice too quickly the game cancels your input altogether. These are minor gripes, and nowadays I remember to turn of double click every time I open the game.
@oohanalligator I played SOTFS primarily, never touched the original release after finishing DS1 shortly before buying 2. On my first playthrough I liked the game. Didnt love it, but didnt hate it either. But on newer playthroughs, with my most recent one being last month, I started to hate the game more and more due to its clunkyness, weird gamedesign decisions, cut content, enemy placements, amount of enemies and outright broken and also weird battle system at times that is affected more by adaptability than skill. [With weird I mean the dualweilding of weapons, which does little to impact the actual gameplay and is just fancy looking at best.] DS2 isnt a bad game. But it isnt the creme of the crop either. I remember how I, a year ago, beat all bosses of DS2 SOTFS. I finished off with Smelter Demon 2.0 and it was such a frustrating experience that after I finally finished the fight, I straight up uninstalled the game laughing because it was finally over because the game had made me that angry. You cannot, I repeat, CANNOT compare DS1+DS3 to DS2. They are not comparable based on a sheer gameplay standard. If you like the game, thats fine by me. Heck even I like DS2. But that doesnt change that DS1 and DS3 are largely more enjoyable in terms of gameplay alone.
@@GikamesShadow I can compare them. I'd even go as far as saying that Dark Souls 3 feels worse gameplay-wise than Dark Souls 2. Mainly because I think it tries too hard to be Bloodborne and it just doesn't work for me. Dark Souls 2 is much more in line with the previous two games when it comes to gameplay, especially combat and stamina management.
@@ReelBigFan the problem is that while some Ds2 criticisms can be shared between the other games in the series, they are much more common in Ds2. For example, ds1 had its fair share of bad hitboxes, in ds3 you can count them with one hand and in Ds2 every 10th hit you take was a bad hitbox. And even then Ds2 has a load of objective problems not present in the other games like 8-directional movement and extremely punishing fall damage. I also suspect that a lot of hated mechanics like health gems and an overabundance of souls were implemented to cover up other bad design decisions like ADP being absolutely necessary for any build, endurance gank fests that Ds2 loves so much and bosses that deal incremental damage by just looking at you. I don't mind that you like this game, I got some enjoyment out of it as well, it's certainly not trash but it is the worst game in the series and that's an objective measurable fact.
I love Dark Souls 2, but I hate how some people say the connections to Dark Souls 1 are either fanservice, or just "there". People have way too much hate for DS2, in my opinion
@@evanseifert8858 yeah, I figure Old Dragonslayer was just fanservice, but at this point we really can't tell if it was or not, since we can't ask them, and the lore is already quite vague
@@bjaminrowe Because when DS3 does it, it's with a purpose. It completed the plotlines of Gwyndolin, the Way of White and Izalith, it expanded on Gwyn's firstborn's lore and the Painted World's, it showed how the legend of Artorias developed and gained traction even when it was revealed it was a failure, or how the world reacted to the Chosen Undead's linking of the flame by having a kingdom built around that practice. That's good world-building. Even small stuff like Andre being in the game isn't just there for reference. He reveals he actually met the giant blacksmith, therefore 1) he has been to Irithyll (which is a funny meta reference), 2) it explains why he has gotten better at blacksmithing. Meanwhile, the entire first half of DS2 is dedicated to killing references to the big bosses of DS1, which is barely related to the actual plot of the game of finding a cure for undeath. You just do it because there is rubble in the way to the castle. Having 3 lordsouls just magically come back is not only lore-breaking, but also hypocritical in a game which constantly reminds you how everything about 1 has been forgotten. There is a difference between what DS2 does, just rip Ornstein from 1, paint it black and put him alone in a bossroom, and what DS3 does, taking the firstborn character mentioned in 1, and creating a well-done bossfight with him. This isn't to say DS3 is perfect and DS2 is horrible. They both have flaws and strengths, those flaws mostly tied to shitty developments. DS3 is a direct sequel to 1, and is built around that. DS2 is in between being a sequel and its own thing (probably do to how they had essentially remake the game from start midway through development), and really suffers from that. To be fair, it had the worst development of the series, but that's hardly an excuse.
The old Dragonslayer could possibly be the Ornstein statue near the Anor Londor bonfire. The statue is grey but the weapon on it is golden. It’s also a weird coincidence that it’s found right after the iron _golem_ which uses a soul made from _dragon_ bones as it’s core.
my head canon is that Ornstein left Anor Londo with Gwynevere, and the one we fight in DS2 is the real Ornstein. The one we fight in Anor Londo is just another of Gyndolin's illusions
@@danielallman9825 i think the Ornstein that followed Gwynevere was an Illusion too, i think the Ornstein that searched for the Nameless King was the real deal.
@@danielallman9825 I am a bit confused that we still have so many newcomers to the lore but since you are pretty new as it seems let me guide you to "VaatiVidya" who covers lore on DS1-3 very heavily. On top of that however, Dark Souls 3 confirmed that Ornstein sought out Gwynns Son, being the Nameless King. Its also heavily implied that he later became the Dragon bound to the Nameless King, likely after being convinced by the son to join him within this newfound kingdom of his own. Then through meditation Ornstein would achieve the Way of the Dragon and would be able to transform into a proper dragon, aiding the King in combat. (This is easily confirmed to be Ornstein by the way, mainly by how the fight is progressing. As when you fight them both and end Phase 1 you see how the Nameless King takes over the Dragons Power, after which he is embued with the power of Lightning. This is in direct connection to our fight with Smough in DS1, who now as we know Ornstein to be an Illusion didnt care if he had to kill his former friend and companion as he wasnt real.)
@@GikamesShadow i didn't look too heavily into DS3 lore because it didn't interest me as much story or gameplay wise. My theory was established well before DS3 launched, so I'm well aware it may be outdated. It's just what made sense to me at the time
I actually love DS2 approaching references in this more subtle way. Things are radically different, but also eerily the same. It makes it feel like you're walking in the previous games footsteps, but millenia in the future. I think this works with the themes of the series much more than DS3's "everyone is here!" approach.
That's exactly how I always looked at it. Dark Souls 2 gives off the vibe that so much time has past that all of the beings and names from the original are mere legend at this point. Nobody even remembers their names. Dark Souls 3 feels like it could be a week later than the original.
@@LtSprinkulz I wouldn't say that it feels nothing like a Dark Souls game per say. The combat is faster paced, but the mechanics and lore are Dark Souls all day. In my opinion Dark Souls 3 feels too much like a been there done that sort of scenario.
it may be somewhat subtle, yet it is much worse than the majority of ds3. ds2 feels very cheap in that regard. in ds3, even if its the same place...more or less, you will the time that has passed. places change over time. ds2 is so far away, those small things shouldnt be there and you know it. its terrible
DS2 was like The Last Jedi. Tried a lot of new things, some of which worked, some of which didn't, and some of which were straight up baffling and insane. DS3 is like Rise of Skywalker, just a big, heaping mound of fan service to appease the people who hated the second one.
the way I see it, It seems that each of the Ancient Lords has passed down either a curse or a Legacy of some sort: -Gravelord Nito seems to leave behind his desire to shepherd the dead together into the dark to let them slumber -Seath: leaves behind his aching craving, for the things his heart covets (probably takes shape as the writhing ruin) -The Witch: since the Parasite is still around, I guess the Witch's consciousness has endured and is seeking a new vessel, could also be an offspring though -The Kings: this one is the most vague, as most people associate it more with Gwyn himself but I suppose a Legacy, or curse of these Four Lords could be their sheer Ambition and naive Search for greater strength, loosing themselves and sacrificing their humanity in the process As for the present four Great Ones: these I guess are beings, that inherited these legacies/curses, the four Lords of Lordran are part of their being, but not all of it -The Rotten, possibly a thrown away thrall of Aldias making, that scavenges for everything lost and forgotten and is now like a perversion of the God it may be shaped after, probably seeking for solace through unison of the many, but unlike Nito, the unfortunates it adorns it´self with are not dead, and furthermore seem to be unwilling to be a part of it, disputing and crying in their now miserable existence -Freja was Duke Tseldoras Pet Spider and is afflicted with the Writhing Ruin, which is what may have driven her to nest in the carcass of an Ancient Dragon and make her Offspring animate the carcasses of their victims as if they were alive again, which can be seen as an act of Sadism and Madness, and like a mocking to the concept of Life or Immortality for that matter -The Sinner: judging by her Gear, seems to have been a Pyromancer who was enticed by the Witch and led on to do things she would later lock herself away for, and now seeks penance for this Sin, writing Scriptures and mutters in the dark, trapped and possessed with and by the one who caused her to Sin in the first place -The King: An ambitious conqueror who sought after power above all else, eventually begins to take Questionable advice, creating a spiral that eventually ends with he himself becoming what looks to be some kind of Demon - on that note I think the Lost Sinners "Sin" and the Kings transformation might have something to do with each other I don´t know why my comments always get so lengthy when talking about Lore and stuff but hey, some good old speculation never hurts I guess
The Sinner tried to link the flame, I'm not sure if she failed and therefore punishes herself for it, or if she realized the folly of her actions and decided to endure a penance imposed by herself. Just like the Witch, she tried to mess with the flame. The Old Iron King, like the Four Kings, started meddling with the soul, the Kings with the art of Lifedrain; and the Iron King with the use of the Iron Scepter, manipulated souls to make his Iron Constructs become living beings. The five kings transgressed the "sanctity" of the soul. It's been awhile since I last dived into DS2 lore, so I may be wrong.
@Tyrant Edgelord Wasn't chaos kind of always there? Like a primal force that gathers strength over time, hence why Alsanna says that the Old Chaos hungers still. It cannot be contained, only controlled.
Ds2 has the most change in environment and enemies, that’s why it’s my favourite, it feels like your in the world while in ds3 and one you will be staring at castle walls and undead people for 99% of it
I'm another DS2 SotFS fan. I pretty much just disliked the level of fanservice in DS3, where many locations and people reappeared without any explanation why.
@@starhalv2427 because ds2 decided to drop almost everything related to ds1 doesn't mean the readopting it is fanservice, Miyazaki didn't made ds2, just another random dude, and he decided to drop all the things from ds1, not Miyazaki, he had to fix that in ds3, maybe that's why ds2 fans call it fanservice
@@starhalv2427 i mean, this video shows exactly how much fan service was in DS2. It's less direct than DS3, but everything ties back to the first game in one way or another.
The rank up rewards for the Sunlight Covenant is a small shield with a design of a sunrise on it, Sunlight Spear, and a weapon called a Sun Sword, which belonged to Solaire
There is also mention of Kalameet and the Chosen Undead in the descriptions of the Dragon Knight weapons. The Dragon Knight weapons are said to be “forged from The Black Dragons tail”, where it is told that “the Black Dragon lost its tail to a brave warrior in a magnificent battle, and the tail was later used to forge several legendary weapons.” An interesting throwback of the Chosen Undead canonically cutting Kalameet’s tail, but man, that’s a lot of legendary weapons just from one tail alone.
Correction: You dont need 4 great souls to open the door You can also collect enough souls to get past it Whether this is intentional by lore or not, this heavily implies that the lordsouls are not neccesary anymore (And considering the fact that the lordvessel is broken too, that makes a lot more sense on top as well) Additionally: The God of Sun is not Solaire, its Gwyn.
Yes if you collect the 4 great souls the door of the Shrine of Winter opens automatically, if you collect at least 1 milion souls you can open the door yourself.
i love how he asked who the Patches-esque character would be in Elden Ring and FromSoft just gave us Patches again, in all his bald-headed, squatting glory.
4:37 to expand on this, Seath is also a reference to the first King's Field, as the sword was given by the white dragon Seath to kill the black dragon Guyra (Which apparently it's Kalameet, in their reincarnation featured in Dark Souls)
You totally missed the shrine to Nito in the Shrine of Amana. It's like a really wide flat fire basin I think? Up the tower after the petrified hollow and the 4th bonfire and with a milfanito. If you interact with it while completely hollow and possessing no Human Effigies, it will transform you into a human.
There is another reference (which may not be one) well hidden with the Pilgrims of Dark. Grandal, the one who welcomes us to the Covenant, shares the same clothes and the same voice actor as the red sorcerer who flooded New Londo in DS1. This is only a theory but it is likely that a Special Order of Wizards endured between DS1 and 2, linked to Dark control and potentially linked to Velka and the dragons. Velka because the DS1 sorcerer's mask recalls the figure of a crow (it is also a reference to the Venetian doctors during the plague), and the dragons because Grandal used and gives us the Dragon Chime directly linked to dragons of course. In addition to that we can find the set of Velka priests in the Dragon Earies at the end of the game.
One of the Reused Character Models no one seeme to talk about or point out is the Little Girl for the Painter World. When you first meet her Her Model is the Nurse from Bloodborne ( 3 times her Size) and later you see the Girl real form sitting on a Stool. Tiny as an Elf.
The great thing about DS2 is that it wasn’t just another retelling of the same story from the first, much like DS3 had been. Yeah sure it had some clunky gameplay and whatnot, but when DS3 went right back into all the same DS1 content over again it seemed like they were just trying to push DS2 off to the side
You are aware that the main team didnt handle DS2 and that is why the story is different right? I am not trying to be a D*ck but, you are aware of this right?
@@GikamesShadow kind of true, miyazaki supervised ds2 development for a while and then started to work on bloodborne while they were still finishing ds2 and he came back to supervise scholar of the first sin, he wasnt the director of ds2 but he did work in ds2.
@@nuprahtor DS2 is more like the middle part of the story imo, introducing the cycles the entirety of Dark Souls 3 is based off and focusing hard on the actual undead curse.
@@dreamz1417 Fair enough, DS1 started the idea of linking the First Flame, DS2 showed us various kingdoms that happen to relink the First Flame again (with the whole overarching Aldia plot), and DS3 shows us what happens when you artificially prolong the life of the First Flame which should have been dead back in DS1's era. I called it a sidestory because the developers tried to create lands that are from from Lordran, exploring the world outside of Gwyn's kingdom, while DS3 shows what happens to some of the locations from DS1. Though, there are some connections between DS1 and DS2's areas, but I think they are thematical and not geographical (not to mention the weird dream-like state of DS2's world which I really like). I'm inclined to believe that some of the places in DS2 are the far kingdoms mentioned in DS1
Understandable. These days I see more and more people on the reddit saying how they thought it was bad but finally realized how good it is. It's never too late!
The way I see it is when I compare it to other souls games it’s the worst of the bunch but when compared to other games it’s my favorite of them, being the worst of the best is still amazing and I can confidently say that dark souls 2 has so much more content and I couldn’t have certain moments I’ve had unless it’s in ds2
A nice little additional connection with Nito and the Rotten is that the weapon you can get from the Old Dead One’s Soul is wielded by Agdayne when you summon him.
If I remember correctly a theory and lore implication was that ornstein left smough and his position because he was following the nameless king that why in DS3 you find his set in the dragons peak
You forgot about the Xanthous set, obtained by the Pilgrims of the Dark. A long lost relic of Oolacile for some reason kept by those who cherish the Dark. In Dark Souls 1 was found in the Painted World of Ariamis, for the forlorn. In Dark Souls 2 we find a painting guardian and a forlorn, but no painting. In Dark Souls 3 we see Yorshka, whom was a crossbreed joined with Gwyndolin with a nearby dead painting guardian, we also see only a scrap of the painted world exists, but is inhabited with forlorn. In Dark Souls 1 Dusk described there were thoughts and emotions that belonged to Manus, these became the fragmentations that sought kings in DS2.
The lightning spear description wasn't referencing Solaire it was referencing Gwyn, Lord of Sunlight which is why it said "God of Sun". Solaire isn't even a god.
Something I also find interesting that Seath was grantes the title of Duke. So the *Dukes* dear freya is perhaps more of a reference than we think. I've not yet played Ds2 and have no clue about freyas lore so I might be wrong, but I still think it's nifty.
One small note. The Duke's Dear Freja is not a remnant of Seath. Its the Duke himself. You pick up her soul detatched from her body. You also find the Duke in his archives... literally referencing The Dukes Archives of DS1. Its always been my headcanon that DS2 takes place several centuries, or even millennia, after DS1 (while DS3 is an alternate reality that only takes place a few decades/centuries after, as most of the geography and events line up). DS2 is effectively "The Bad Ending" of the whole series. Where the cycle never stopped, and the world became lost. Nothing can be done to save this world. You sit on the throne, but your actions wont break this endless nightmare... While DS3 gives you the option for the "Good Ending", where you have the option to end the age of fire once and for all. (Its also my headcanon that the Age of the Erdtree followed some time after... but thats a whole other thing)
If you mean the Duke from DS2 then no because he is literally in the room after the boss. If you meant that Freja is Seath then that makes no sense because we know Freja's backstory and also Seath is dead. Freja can be a spiritual successor to Seath though, like the Rotten is to Nito...
@mekacrab thats.... what I said... but the spider is not the one, its the Duke who is his successor. He just managed to put the paledrake soul into his creation
I really like the small detail of the shattered Lordvessel in DS2 as it could be an explanation to why the old souls make an appearance. Perhaps after it shattered, these souls escaped in search of powerful souls to attach to. At least it makes more sense than Seath being able to take multiple forms since he was presumably bullied or looked down upon for his condition, and he had no immortality of his own.
-Ornifex mentions that a "pale beast" was the source of her soul transformations technique, implying it to Seath, or possibly Priscilla -Vendrick at one point repeats the opening lines of Dark Souls 1
I can tell you put in a ton of work in each and every one of your videos. Right after you post a new video I get excited for your next one. Hope to see some Elden Ring content when the game comes out. Ps: Love the Hollow Knight soundtrack in the background.
There's also a corpse of a dragon on the ceiling in the Duke's Freja room. Y'know, the one where you enter its drool to go into a memory to get the Ancient Dragon soul. Maybe ceiling guy is a descendant of Seath?
Nope,by it's memory it's very clear he was an ancient dragon who was killed by the gods,he is now just a corpse that rhe spiders are either eating or living in,maybe both
@goggles789 Hmm, well, not really. Not all dragons are ancient dragons. There's no insinuation that Seath had any descendants either. As a scaleless dragon he wasn't immortal like his contemporaries which is why he betrayed them. Thematically speaking, a spider with Seaths soul living inside and eating an ancient dragons makes sense.
@@eldencircle7216 There's a heavy implication that Priscilla is the daughter of Seath, though probably mostly through experimentation. There is also Shira from DS3 as well, though her lack of Draconic qualities probably implies that she was adopted.
@@BattleguildThat's bang on bud - again there's a strong theme of posterity, longevity and legacy with Seath, who was the first "mortal" dragon. Frankly I don't have any doubts that Pricsilla was somehow sired by him. We see it repeated again with Ocierus in ds3 too - breeding of imperfect dragons. As for Seath having any dragon relatives, we'll that's highly unlikely, especially in the ancient variety. Funny enough you're right on Shira but it's doubtful she ever had any interaction with Seath directly. Interestingly she was adopted by Gwyndoline who has close ties with Seath and her mixed blood is reminiscent of Pricsilla. Remarkably there are a lot of products of Seaths work from the very beginning to the very end. But my main point is this: despite Seath having a large body of work, there is no evidence of him having any direct dragon relatives or descendents. He's one of a kind.
@@eldencircle7216 Yorshka is the tower maiden. Shira is the caretaker of Midir. As for Yorshka: I was thinking that either they are the daughter of Gwyndolin×Darkmoon Knightess, as they were somewhat close in DS1. (Knightess wore her armor to hide her features and she was a fire keeper. Gwyndolin has several failed dragon/serpent features. Yorshka is stationed right next to a Bonfire as well.) Or they are Ocelotte* who was rescued from Ocierus by the Pontiff during his term there and given to Gwyndolin due to being their sister's child and doubling as an anchor to keep Gwyndolin from potentially leaving the city. Ocelotte* was raised as a female because Gwyndolin knew no other way from what they were taught. (The biggest credence to this, is the fact Yorshka was renamed at some point, and Yorshka has a few of King Ocierus's features.) In either case, Gwyndolin taught Yorshka that Gwyn was their father, which I personally doubt due to the age disparity, because Gwyndolin wants Yorshka to carry on in their stead in Anor Londo's duties due to Gwyndolin's failing health from the poisoned water supply.
So let me see if i get this right. While the 1st and 3rd game focus on the plot of the linking of the fire, the reason the second game feels disconnected is because contrary to the others, the main story is focusing on the consequences of the death of manus all while taking place in a new era presumably during an age of fire?
If we skip forwards to DS3, it makes sense that the Old Dragonslayer doesn’t have Smough by his side. Smough stayed behind to guard the Cathedral, whilst Ornstein left to find the Nameless King. Since Heide was a land of light, with lightning wielding knights, it makes perfect sense that Ornstein would be there, trying to find his missing liege. Of course this assumes that Old Dragonslayer is the true Ornstein and not an imitation, but either way, Heide would be the perfect place to find Ornstein as he searches for NK. Dragon Shrine seems to be acutely missing any dragon-slaying gods of war, so that’s probably why Old Dragonslayer wasn’t found there instead.
I have a feeling that the "Old Dragonslayer" is more something that the Heide Knights or the Order of Heide created. Not only is it not pure thunder the OD is using but Dark Thunder instead. This implies heavy corruption in their soul, which can hint at many different things. It is possible Ornstein visited Heides Tower at one point, helped them and then went on towards DS3
It's kinda funky how DS3 feels like a sequel to DS1 and DS2 feels like a sequel to DS3 and all games are a prequel to Bloodborne and Sekiro and somewhat of a midquel to Demon Souls and King's Field
Pulling off something similar to what the creators of the first 2 trilogies of Dragon Warrior games did with 3 happening before 1 and 2 and something similar with 4-6
In interesting coincidence occurs to me. Each of the four bosses that need to be defeated to open the Shrine of Winter seems to be associated with one of the Lord Souls needed for the Lord Vessel in DS1. One of those Lord Souls was that of the Four Kings, and which DS2 boss seems to be associated with the Four Kings? The Old Iron King. Except... is it really _just_ the Old Iron King? Is it a coincidence that the four shards of Manus' soul sought out four kings? Perhaps it's not just the Old Iron King, but also the Sunken King, the Ivory King, and Vendrick himself who each inherited the legacy of the Four Kings. The shards of the Father of the Abyss sought out the heirs to the Four Kings of the Abyss. Maybe.
Aside from a minor detail or two (someone already commented on the "Warriors of Sunlight" covenant), good video. I mean, I had noticed pretty much everything you cover, but it is a very nice compilation, and your discussion on the fragments of Manus' soul is an interesting take.
It is also worth mentioning that when talking to Sweet Shalquoir, she gives a description of four beings with a powerful soul in a way that tells both their current form and past.
1:00 Ok this is the second video I've heard people say this in, and I don't know why anyone is going along with it. It just isn't true, those statues are in no way identical. The outfit is completely different, the head is different, even the sword has some differences in its shape. The differences are too plentiful and too distinct to write it off as a "different interpretation" or something, they just simply aren't depicting the same figure. Their only similarity is the pose, which is just a generic "sword at rest" pose. Who even started this idea?
00:00 Glad to see somebody bring this up, I feel like this bit of lore isn't discussed as much as it should be. The game seems to hint at the Lost Sinner being the Witch of Izalith herself, a fragment of her, or a host body inhabited by the chaos insect she became. Really interesting stuff that i don' see brought up much. 1:57 This is 100% w/out a doubt NOT referencing Solaire. This is referring to Gwyn, literally known as the "Lord of Sunlight." And the covenant, while still related to Gwyn, is technically the covenant of his firstborn sun, the god of war known as the "Nameless King," from his boss fight in the third game. This entry has got to be a troll lol. 7:25 I'm fairly certain that it is never explicitly stated that there are only 4 shards of Manus. Karla in Dark Souls 3 is most definitely a shard, and because of this it is possible that there are more in existence, each being a physical manifestation of human emotion. I personally believe Karla is most likely shame or regret.
@@logotron112 Karla is either the daughter of, or is Zullie the witch herself, which already gives her a connection to the abyss. She is referred to multiple times as a "child of the abyss," which is one of the common ways that shards of Manus are referred to as in DS2. She also seems to not just sell dark spells, but has a deep and intimate knowledge of the dark nature within man. Plus, judging by the description of her clothing, she is most likely very old. Much older than most regular humans live.
my take on some of this: The lost sinner is Yhorm the giant's lost loved one. we see this referred with the aristocrat's statues on the profaned capitol and on lost fortress. she is called a sinner and we know that "sin" reference the linkin of the flame, and we also have the profaned flame ,an everlasting flame. so, we could say that the bed of chaos is ,as the flame itself, a permanent cycle of born and death, that took possession of pyromancers that learned lost pyromancies to continue her attempt to recreate the flame, the lost sinner was containing the bed of chaos. since the handcuff you get of her set gives you more powerful pyromancies and on ng+ pyromancers defend her on the boss fight. so yeah, i think lost sinner created the profaned flame of ds3. so in a way that fucking bug is on the entire trilogy (based on my theory)
now, as for Ornstein, i say its an illusion that the original ornstein lefted on strategic places of the world. we see birdlike statues all along heide, and one of the bosses of the place is a dragon rider. to give this some context. we need to (again) go to ds3. in archdragon peak on ds3. we fought Sen (nameless king, gwyn's son) that for some reason,he betrayed his father, and joined the remaining dragons. his loyal comrade Ornstein went after him later, taking the path of the dragon and becoming himself the king of the storm, a drake. that my take is, that drakes, are people that achieved full dragon powers. thats why we see a scene really reminiscent of the ornstein vs smough fight when nameless king absorbs the powers of his fallen comrad. and that's the reason we get ornstein's original armour on the same place that fight took place. so yeah, my guess is that, such as Sen went and formed a new kingdom on archdragon peak,Ornstein was leading similar stuff on different places, perhaps even on Forossa
drakes are two legged, dragons are quadrupeds . thats why the red one added on Sotfs before fighting Ornstein is on is legs. to add more context to that point. i'd say we have this 2 boss fights on this place to represent a past fight between the both of them, Ornstein having more respect for the drakes and and vendrick just want it to use them as vehicles( i guess)
@goggles789 No, dragons are everlasting, wyverns and drakes are the ones we encounter on ds mostly. perhaps my english isn't that good. but on the profaned capitol, you can see some statues of bald mans in ropes with books or lifting things, we can see the same type of statue on the lost fortress. That, and that the sinner is "lost" so we don't really don't know anything of her besides having pyromancies and bed of chaos in her. my relation on both storylines rely on the flame sin. Aldia, Scholar of the first sin, is the one that wanted to be immortal and the most interested person ever on the purpose of the flame, but the keyword here is to understand that the first sin is corrupting the regular cycle of life, playing with the flame. Gwyn is fhe first sinner, then witches of Izalith tried to replicate it. and after that the profaned flame appears on ds3 without much lore to it, it just says that is everlasting, that isn't natural on the ds universe. i mean it makes sense to make, you got anything better to work with?
that, and that you've got some easter eggs of ds2 going around there, like the ladder dude of the majula pit/hole. of course there isn't any direct connection between both things, but that's exactly what Miyazaki is all about, ive seen on one of vatividia's videos that he gave personal context to it, he said " when i was young i barely knew any english, so when i readed fantasy books there were some words i didn't understand and had to fill the gaps with my imagination " and that's how we must take ds. i know ds1 is the most comprehensive one since you can understand most of it from scratch, but for the rest of the games the space/time disruption became a thing with much relevance, even with ds2 that wasn't directed by Miyazaki. just clarifying this so perhaps you can find more lore relations on the games that people hasn't yet with the right mindset :) . miyazaki is all about artistic vanguard
2:08 just to clear up possible confusion, this isn’t a direct reference to Solaire. “Gross incandescence” are the only words that would be in reference to him, calling back to how he wanted to be so “grossly incandescent” when he was speaking to us about the sun. Though, he isn’t the “god of sun” that is referenced, he was a mere undead just like the player, the god of sun it’s referencing is the Nameless King.
No he wasnt Ornstein went to look for the Nameless King in DS3, you can find his armor near the arena and also context clues and lore indicate heavily that he is the Dragon the Nameless King rides on.
@@GikamesShadow Ornstein had already left Anor Londo before the chosen undead came. And lore implies that, just like Havel, he learned the ways of the occult after Gwyn left so that the other Gods couldn't keep him in Anor Londo anymore without a fight. This fully explains why he uses dark instead of lighting in ds2, and why you find the old Leo ring. He did indeed leave to find the Nameless King, but to find means that Ornstein didn't know where the king was. Therefore he had to search in many places. As for ds1, the only real people left there were Gwendolyn, Smough, and the Giant Blacksmith. Everything else, which is proven after turning Anor Londo to night after hitting Gwynevere, is an illusion.
do the connections between ds1 and ds3. it'll be a 14 hour video lmao but this makes me happy, as polarizing as ds2 is, i am glad it took a more subtle approach to the previous game.
The problem with all this lore (which you did a great job of explaining) is that it makes no sense in the context of Dark Souls III. Gwyn's soul is in the Soul of Cinder. There's no explanation of how it went from being in the Kiln, to the Iron Keep, then back to the Kiln. DS2 is incoherent in the context of the series.
Dark Souls 3 attempted to explain all the lore weirdness with the time and space being converging or something. The soul that's in the Soul of Cinder may aswell be some Gwyn from another dimension. Dark Souls 3 is weird like that. Or it's completely unrelated and just some leftover fuel from when Gwyn initally burned himself that stayed in the first flame. Or Dark Souls 2's gwyn soul is one of the shards because Gwyn really like splitting his soul into pieces. There's a lot of things that could've happened, Dark Souls 2 really isn't incoherent at all.
@@dreamz1417 There's a lot of things that could've happened if you're willing to wildly speculate with no basis in the game. The lore of Dark Souls and Dark Souls 3 is incredibly consistent, with the only exceptions being the references to Dark Souls 2.
0:50 If I remember correctly he is an Ornstein imitator that he heard about I didn't know him well and that's why his weapon and armor description is different in DS1
In the Dark Souls 2 Network Test, the Lightning Spear miracle more explicitly references Solaire. Edit: The lacky boss Prowling Magus and Congregation is NOT a Dark Souls 1 reference to Pinwheel, but a Demon's Souls reference to Fool's Idol. Edit 2: Despite no Painted World in Dark Souls 2, a Painting Guardian appears in Aldia's Keep starting in Journey 2 onwards, and has a rare chance to drop the set pieces and weapons.
Pinwheel was inspired from the Fool's Idol boss fight from Demon's Souls anyway, both bosses use magic and make clones of themselves to fight, and both bosses have low HP which makes them easy to kill.
also the fact the ivory king was the only one to redeem there shard of manus is fitting, not only is the ivory king fighting chaos, a form of fire, darks opposite, that like the abyss corrupts nad mutates, thus its fitting hes the one to find a piece of the abyss that doesent corrupt, it also makes sense that he earned her genuine love threw showing her genuine love in kind, the very think manus was seeking out
How do you know that dark souls 2 isnt a painted world. The beginning cinematic reminds me of when you dive out if the paintings but what if the reflection of the world in the cinematic is some sort of mirror workd like the painted world
@@patfenis675 he is canonically as his armor tells he turned hollow, but he doesn't respawn. Not a very important character but still a reference from the first game :)
He is stated by Miyazaki to have become a Lord of Cinder (assuming you saved him from the Sunlight Maggot), and it can be guessed that the true details of his story were exaggerated over the ages. Same thing with Evlana.
My head canon has always been that dark souls 2 is the sequel to ds1 when you let the flame burn out and dark souls 3 is the sequel if you keep the flame alive
DS2 builds upon the world so well. You really feel the weight of the actions of Gwyn and the other lords, but it also feels very distant from it. DS3 did not do as good of a job.
Ds3 did many things wrong but not feeling the effects of Gwyn’s linking of the first flame is absolutely not one of them lmao. The world is collapsing in on itself, abyssal monstrosities are running rampant, the world is dead and decaying and the sun is dying out lmao, what do you mean? Even linking the flame does nothing now. The only world building DS2 did well were the daughters of manus and further elaborating on what exactly manus and the abyss were.
Almost everything in DS3 felt like fan service to me. In DS2 it's just built into the world and most of the inhabitants aren't even aware of the influence.
A little detail I love is that the connections to DS1 are done in a way to imply so much time has passed that the first game is so far in the past it's beyond even legend.
0:24 I think the Old Iron King comes from Gwyn's lord soul, not the four kings. I guess the four kings could work to because they have pieces of Gwyn's soul, but idk.
@@dopaminecloudfunny. whenever cod or assassins creed comes out it’s “the same game every year” but when dark souls does it it’s “intricate lore”. be consistent in your “passion for art” ngl
@@fulltimeslackerii8229 souls doesnt come out every year, and is actually good. and are actually complete games upon release not riddled with microtransactions, its not hard to see.
“I wonder who Patches will be in Elden Ring”
Patches: how about being myself
At the very least, they branch out by making him a bossfight for the first time.
It's interesting that ornifex seems to be surrounded by doll parts, since one is required to enter the painted world
Maybe that's why she collects lord souls... hmm...
ooo, she's trying to find a way back?
Can't forget that if you go into the room next to her and look through the window none of the dolls are actually there.
@@Blossemfall oh shit
@@Blossemfall weird, but how do you know the view through the window is what's real?
One major connection between the two games is that they are both in the “Dark Souls” series.
You do also have to remember that back when the game was brand new, it was considered more like demon souls. There were many who just decided it was non-canon.
In Africa, every 60 Seconds, a minute passes.
Guys I found a great secret... those two games allow you to roll, I didn't even know you could roll in dark souls 2 since it was a completely different game. It took me by suprise to find out that these 2 games might be connected.
I think you mean the Darkbloodringkiro series.
That's a bit of a stretch imo
"At the end of DS1's DLC we face Manus and eventually defeat him."
lol speak for yourself
You just made my day , thank you))))))
if it helps, technically youve already done it, so it's done even if you don't do it!
Git gud
Get sif to help
Shout out to the gamer's that never passed the Artorias filter.
you forgot the "Majestic Greatsword" in Brume's Tower, in a chest at the bottom of the tower that Maldron invades at. Its pretty much just Artorias's Greatsword in both appearance and function. Its a normal greatsword when used normally, but if you have it in your left hand it gets unique moves that are just like the Abyss Greatsword. It even has the abysmal stat requirements you would expect from swords relating to Artorias lmao
… and now i need to reinstall DS2 and play it again, THANK YOU!
@@skrotosd moveset of this greatsword is sooooo badass.
I don't even know about it before
Also there are the black knight weapons scattered throughout the world, except the greatsword, the rest are identical
The reason it can only be used in the left hand is because artorias was left handed, but when we fight him, he’s using his right arm, which was used to hold his great shield, which means he fought us with a major handicap, and we probably still died to him a lot of the time.
you mean _"abyss-mal"_ stat requirements?
I dont think the Duke’s Dear Freya is a remnant, because when you beat her it says victory achieved. However if you touch the dragon’s remains it will say Great Soul Embraced, meaning that the ancient dragon is actually the remnant of the old lord souls.
I think it’s actually the duke the one “reincarnated”, after all it’s the theme of the experiments that is important. IMHO.
Seath has probably degenerated into what Dark Souls II generally calls the Writhing Ruin
a kind of force or disease that is constantly looking for it´s hearts desire and that has infected all the Insects within Brightstone Cove and Duke Tseldora as well
that could explain why the Spiders occupy the carcass of an ancient Dragon as Seath himself was so obsessed with their Scales
The Duke probably performed experiments on his dearest Pet Spider, explaining why she mutated more then the others and presumably became the leader of the pack
If you beat freja in ng+ she drops both her soul and old paledrake soul, so she
clearly has remnants of seath.
All right, to clear things up. Freya is not the remnant of Seath. Seath is alive and possessing her. The idea is that his souls never truly died (maybe because of one of his experiments to immortality) and would possess smaller beings to live. The reason why you don’t get to embrace by his souls is that it never was a great souls in the first place. In DS1, Gwyn gave a shard of his souls to Seath and it is why you had to hunt him. So Freya doesn’t have a great souls but the dead dragon does. Of course only remains of it is left which is enough to open the door. But you can go into his memory to his first fall and then get the full souls. in which behold! He has a great souls.
@@raphicoco mm, true. It was the fragment of Gwyn’s soul in Seath that we collected for the Lordvessel, not necessarily Seath’s own soul. That begs the question: why does the Old Iron King have fragments of the Four Kings in him? Doesn’t really make sense for a big, iron dragon to possess the soul of those Abyss dwellers..
One mistake that I noticed in the video was relating to Solaire/The Warriors of Sunlight. The God of the Sun that it was referencing was not Solaire, but rather Gwyn, maybe the Nameless King. Gwyn is the God of Sunlight/the Sun, and he is generally seen as a God and father, so the Covenant is named after him. However, the Nameless King is the leader of the Warriors of Sunlight and all the broken statues are of him. It is possible that the name of the covenant would be based upon the Nameless King, however he was the God of War.
Yes, in DS1 "grossly incandescent" wasn't referring to Solaire. It was how Solaire described the sun.
Ya it confused me when he said Solaire was the god of Sunlight. Thought that idea died out a while ago lol
@@theronfoxfriend8611 same.
Exactly, Solaire is no god.
Also, there is a reference of solaire and it is with a shield that you get from the covenant.
The "child of the dragon" spoken of in the Aged Feather's description is more likely to be Shanalotte, the Emerald Herald. She was given her name by the Ancient Dragon, and she states: "I was born of dragons, contrived by men."
I like your speculation/theory about the Hunter's Hat and the real identity of "Evlana".
Also, there's Aldia, the Scholar of the First Sin. "First Sin" refers to Gwyn's sacrifice to rekindle the First Flame, since it was there and then that we got stuck in a cycle that shouldn't be, resulting in the undead curse and the slow crumbling of the world as we see until DS3. Aldia was studying the event, trying to find a 3rd option: choose neither Fire nor Dark, neither kindling the flame nor letting the Abyss consume it. I'm not sure whether Aldia has any hand on this, but I like how we find the third option in DS3.
yep and dont know how and why, after finally he found the way, Aldia gave the trust to The Londor. A Way that the Flame can be controlled with our own will. Like he said "Young Hollow, there are but two paths.. Inherit the order of this world (the purpose of the usurpation of fire ending) or DESTROY IT (he doesnt point out the age of dark but the end of the world. Just imagine if we can do the path of a kind of ending like the Frienzied Flame from Elden Ring lol)"
Just a mention. In Irish folklore the consumption of an insect would be how the gods would impregnate a woman. I always kinda connected that to the chaos bug.
Though i´m not sure what to do with it, it´s still an awsome detail! Thanks!
I'm never using brigthbugs again. Thx
@@TYR1139 lol
@@TYR1139 to be fair you don't EAT the brightbugs. You crush their little buggy bodies and sprinkle around the dust.
They all do, but dark souls two regrences irish folklore and history alot.
Nadalia separated her soul into pieces for Raime, the Fume Knight. After he lost to Velstadt he went looking for another king to serve. He went to the old Iron King but he was already gone. He met Nadalia there and they became friends, and she realized his power and separated herself to give it to him. That's why there's 4 Ashen Idols around his chamber and why you get the last piece of her soul when you beat him. She wanted to give him a piece of her and then protect him from dying so she would never be lonely again.
Nadalia is arguably the most powerful out of the 4, so it's a good thing we don't face her in her prime
@@matheuscruz8574
Alsanna seems to be no less powerful. Also, something tells me Nadalia wasn't evil. Just super lonely.
The things in DS2 that have "Old" in the name are the things from Lordran.
Old iron king?
Old dragonslayer?
@@Meem-v02 that's Gwyn's, right?
@A I didn't even know that was a thing, goes to show how rare of a drop that is.
@@alexrodrigues5307 that's ornstein, or an ornstein knight, similar to the havel knights
You forgot Straid dialogue which references the witch of Izalith,there’s also that mage npc who talks about Seath
It's the bird lady,she says that her transposing magic was created by seath i think
@@alysoncardoso6684 the mage that you find on no man’s wharf also talks about seath
@@italo7676 huh,i didn't know that
Yeah the scorpion dude.
Forgot his name
@@DronesOverTheMoon Man-Scorpion Tusk, i think.
7:33 Alsanna is Fear, she literally says so:
""I am, in fact, the incarnation of my Father's fears."
Dark Souls 2 has enormous effects on Dark Souls 3. The most noteworthy being the snuffing of the Flame of Chaos. In Dark Souls 2, Eleum Loyce had a portal to the Old Chaos that formed beneath it. The Ivory King descended into the chaos to snuff it out, and the Bearer of the Curse enters and has the portals frozen over by the Loyce Knights who he rescues.
In Dark Souls 3, Demonkind is being eradicated because the flame of chaos has sputtered out. The Old Demon King is the last major vestige of chaotic power, and after him the Demon Princes are left to pick up the scraps. In the boss fight with the Old Demon King you can see mountains of demon corpses. Demonkind, once a plague, is now a dying race.
Tangentially, ice magic originates in Eleum Loyce, and that has some unspoken connection to the Painting of Ariandel and subsequently Pontiff Sulyvahn. Who is the motive force for all major world events in Dark Souls 3.
Unrelated: The Old Dragonslayer is probably the real Ornstein, because the Ornstein you fight in Anor Londo is an illusion. This was confirmed by the fact that Ornstein shows up and leaves his armor behind at the Nameless King's place.
The fact that his armour is left at the nameless king is exactly why it isnt the real ornstein in ds2
@@SconesSmile Actually it still could be. As Old Dragonslayer is an optional fight in DS2 and From Soft has shown multiple times that non-mandatory fights don't happen in the canon, as shown by Gwyndolin being alive long enough to be devoured by Aldritch in DS3 even though you can kill him in DS1.
There is no "confirmed" in the souls games lol. There's circumstantial references, hints, suggestions, etc. but there is pretty much nothing that is actually confirmed. There's dozens of different plausible theories, based on a paragraph of lore.
That's what makes Dark souls so memorable: Fromsoft gave us snippets, fragments of a story, and then we assemble it in our own way. That's why it's silly to have the know it all wannabes, who comment "you're wrong. This lore says blah, blah, blah, which PROVES you're wrong".
There's a handful of things in the entire series that are confirmed, the rest is up to interpretation by the player 🙂
Dude, DKS3 completely destroys the canon of 2, you might as well pretend 2 isn't canon to 3.
Or the flame of chaos is dying out because literally everything is dying out in DS3. It's a major theme of the game; every instance doesn't have to be explained through cross references.
I enjoy the games themselves but it's videos like these that really hooked me.
I'm so glad to see more people know just how connected ds1 and 2 really are. It seems like arguments about this game are more about whether disconnectedness is good or bad, forgetting that thats not even what Ds2 is.
I've noticed most of the "objective" arguments made against DS2 are criticisms that can easily be made against the other Souls games. Things like easily exploitable AI, weird hitboxes, dev time cut short resulting in cut content/significant changes to the game, ect. At this point I'm starting to believe the real reason DS2 gets so much hate is because no one liked ADP. From Demon's Souls to Sekiro, Dark Souls 2 probably has the most irritating dodging mechanics (don't worry DS3, you aren't far behind). I'm sure if dodging felt better (especially in the early game) DS2 would have been better received and maybe people would be able to focus more on all the great things DS2 actually did right.
@@ReelBigFan
To be honest a huge part of what made DS2 feel clunky at first were a combination of two things, one, the animations are really bad compared to ds1/3. I think they were mocapped instead of animated in the same way they are so the animations either feel too smooth for what they are (Maces), or way too clumsy (Greataxes). And another awful thing is most likely just to do with the steam port on mouse and keyboard. The controls by default have double click turned on whenever you boot up the game, even though it says double click is disabled. This makes single click inputs comically unresponsive, with even up to a second of delay, as the game waits to see if you double clicked, and if you click twice too quickly the game cancels your input altogether.
These are minor gripes, and nowadays I remember to turn of double click every time I open the game.
@oohanalligator I played SOTFS primarily, never touched the original release after finishing DS1 shortly before buying 2. On my first playthrough I liked the game. Didnt love it, but didnt hate it either. But on newer playthroughs, with my most recent one being last month, I started to hate the game more and more due to its clunkyness, weird gamedesign decisions, cut content, enemy placements, amount of enemies and outright broken and also weird battle system at times that is affected more by adaptability than skill. [With weird I mean the dualweilding of weapons, which does little to impact the actual gameplay and is just fancy looking at best.]
DS2 isnt a bad game. But it isnt the creme of the crop either. I remember how I, a year ago, beat all bosses of DS2 SOTFS. I finished off with Smelter Demon 2.0 and it was such a frustrating experience that after I finally finished the fight, I straight up uninstalled the game laughing because it was finally over because the game had made me that angry.
You cannot, I repeat, CANNOT compare DS1+DS3 to DS2. They are not comparable based on a sheer gameplay standard. If you like the game, thats fine by me. Heck even I like DS2. But that doesnt change that DS1 and DS3 are largely more enjoyable in terms of gameplay alone.
@@GikamesShadow I can compare them. I'd even go as far as saying that Dark Souls 3 feels worse gameplay-wise than Dark Souls 2. Mainly because I think it tries too hard to be Bloodborne and it just doesn't work for me. Dark Souls 2 is much more in line with the previous two games when it comes to gameplay, especially combat and stamina management.
@@ReelBigFan the problem is that while some Ds2 criticisms can be shared between the other games in the series, they are much more common in Ds2. For example, ds1 had its fair share of bad hitboxes, in ds3 you can count them with one hand and in Ds2 every 10th hit you take was a bad hitbox. And even then Ds2 has a load of objective problems not present in the other games like 8-directional movement and extremely punishing fall damage. I also suspect that a lot of hated mechanics like health gems and an overabundance of souls were implemented to cover up other bad design decisions like ADP being absolutely necessary for any build, endurance gank fests that Ds2 loves so much and bosses that deal incremental damage by just looking at you. I don't mind that you like this game, I got some enjoyment out of it as well, it's certainly not trash but it is the worst game in the series and that's an objective measurable fact.
I love Dark Souls 2, but I hate how some people say the connections to Dark Souls 1 are either fanservice, or just "there". People have way too much hate for DS2, in my opinion
The same people will then have nothing but praise for 3, which has even more fanservice-y stuff in it.
@@bjaminrowe its cause 3 is actually a good game
Some things like random edgy Ornstein definitely deserve criticism.
@@evanseifert8858 yeah, I figure Old Dragonslayer was just fanservice, but at this point we really can't tell if it was or not, since we can't ask them, and the lore is already quite vague
@@bjaminrowe Because when DS3 does it, it's with a purpose. It completed the plotlines of Gwyndolin, the Way of White and Izalith, it expanded on Gwyn's firstborn's lore and the Painted World's, it showed how the legend of Artorias developed and gained traction even when it was revealed it was a failure, or how the world reacted to the Chosen Undead's linking of the flame by having a kingdom built around that practice. That's good world-building.
Even small stuff like Andre being in the game isn't just there for reference. He reveals he actually met the giant blacksmith, therefore 1) he has been to Irithyll (which is a funny meta reference), 2) it explains why he has gotten better at blacksmithing.
Meanwhile, the entire first half of DS2 is dedicated to killing references to the big bosses of DS1, which is barely related to the actual plot of the game of finding a cure for undeath. You just do it because there is rubble in the way to the castle. Having 3 lordsouls just magically come back is not only lore-breaking, but also hypocritical in a game which constantly reminds you how everything about 1 has been forgotten.
There is a difference between what DS2 does, just rip Ornstein from 1, paint it black and put him alone in a bossroom, and what DS3 does, taking the firstborn character mentioned in 1, and creating a well-done bossfight with him.
This isn't to say DS3 is perfect and DS2 is horrible. They both have flaws and strengths, those flaws mostly tied to shitty developments. DS3 is a direct sequel to 1, and is built around that. DS2 is in between being a sequel and its own thing (probably do to how they had essentially remake the game from start midway through development), and really suffers from that. To be fair, it had the worst development of the series, but that's hardly an excuse.
The old Dragonslayer could possibly be the Ornstein statue near the Anor Londor bonfire. The statue is grey but the weapon on it is golden. It’s also a weird coincidence that it’s found right after the iron _golem_ which uses a soul made from _dragon_ bones as it’s core.
my head canon is that Ornstein left Anor Londo with Gwynevere, and the one we fight in DS2 is the real Ornstein. The one we fight in Anor Londo is just another of Gyndolin's illusions
@@danielallman9825 i think the Ornstein that followed Gwynevere was an Illusion too, i think the Ornstein that searched for the Nameless King was the real deal.
@@danielallman9825 Issue with that is that it sort of conflicts with DS3. Where his armor is found just outside of his masters boss room.
@@danielallman9825 I am a bit confused that we still have so many newcomers to the lore but since you are pretty new as it seems let me guide you to "VaatiVidya" who covers lore on DS1-3 very heavily. On top of that however, Dark Souls 3 confirmed that Ornstein sought out Gwynns Son, being the Nameless King. Its also heavily implied that he later became the Dragon bound to the Nameless King, likely after being convinced by the son to join him within this newfound kingdom of his own.
Then through meditation Ornstein would achieve the Way of the Dragon and would be able to transform into a proper dragon, aiding the King in combat.
(This is easily confirmed to be Ornstein by the way, mainly by how the fight is progressing. As when you fight them both and end Phase 1 you see how the Nameless King takes over the Dragons Power, after which he is embued with the power of Lightning. This is in direct connection to our fight with Smough in DS1, who now as we know Ornstein to be an Illusion didnt care if he had to kill his former friend and companion as he wasnt real.)
@@GikamesShadow i didn't look too heavily into DS3 lore because it didn't interest me as much story or gameplay wise. My theory was established well before DS3 launched, so I'm well aware it may be outdated. It's just what made sense to me at the time
“I know it sounds hard to believe, but we’re actually standing in ArnorL~~”
I actually love DS2 approaching references in this more subtle way. Things are radically different, but also eerily the same. It makes it feel like you're walking in the previous games footsteps, but millenia in the future. I think this works with the themes of the series much more than DS3's "everyone is here!" approach.
That's exactly how I always looked at it. Dark Souls 2 gives off the vibe that so much time has past that all of the beings and names from the original are mere legend at this point. Nobody even remembers their names.
Dark Souls 3 feels like it could be a week later than the original.
Dark Souls 3 might as well be Bloodborne 2. Feels nothing like a Dark Souls game.
@@LtSprinkulz I wouldn't say that it feels nothing like a Dark Souls game per say. The combat is faster paced, but the mechanics and lore are Dark Souls all day. In my opinion Dark Souls 3 feels too much like a been there done that sort of scenario.
it may be somewhat subtle, yet it is much worse than the majority of ds3. ds2 feels very cheap in that regard.
in ds3, even if its the same place...more or less, you will the time that has passed. places change over time. ds2 is so far away, those small things shouldnt be there and you know it. its terrible
DS2 was like The Last Jedi. Tried a lot of new things, some of which worked, some of which didn't, and some of which were straight up baffling and insane. DS3 is like Rise of Skywalker, just a big, heaping mound of fan service to appease the people who hated the second one.
the way I see it, It seems that each of the Ancient Lords has passed down either a curse or a Legacy of some sort:
-Gravelord Nito seems to leave behind his desire to shepherd the dead together into the dark to let them slumber
-Seath: leaves behind his aching craving, for the things his heart covets (probably takes shape as the writhing ruin)
-The Witch: since the Parasite is still around, I guess the Witch's consciousness has endured and is seeking a new vessel, could also be an offspring though
-The Kings: this one is the most vague, as most people associate it more with Gwyn himself but I suppose a Legacy, or curse of these Four Lords could be their sheer Ambition and naive Search for greater strength, loosing themselves and sacrificing their humanity in the process
As for the present four Great Ones: these I guess are beings, that inherited these legacies/curses, the four Lords of Lordran are part of their being, but not all of it
-The Rotten, possibly a thrown away thrall of Aldias making, that scavenges for everything lost and forgotten and is now like a perversion of the God it may be shaped after, probably seeking for solace through unison of the many, but unlike Nito, the unfortunates it adorns it´self with are not dead, and furthermore seem to be unwilling to be a part of it, disputing and crying in their now miserable existence
-Freja was Duke Tseldoras Pet Spider and is afflicted with the Writhing Ruin, which is what may have driven her to nest in the carcass of an Ancient Dragon and make her Offspring animate the carcasses of their victims as if they were alive again, which can be seen as an act of Sadism and Madness, and like a mocking to the concept of Life or Immortality for that matter
-The Sinner: judging by her Gear, seems to have been a Pyromancer who was enticed by the Witch and led on to do things she would later lock herself away for, and now seeks penance for this Sin, writing Scriptures and mutters in the dark, trapped and possessed with and by the one who caused her to Sin in the first place
-The King: An ambitious conqueror who sought after power above all else, eventually begins to take Questionable advice, creating a spiral that eventually ends with he himself becoming what looks to be some kind of Demon - on that note I think the Lost Sinners "Sin" and the Kings transformation might have something to do with each other
I don´t know why my comments always get so lengthy when talking about Lore and stuff but hey, some good old speculation never hurts I guess
The Sinner tried to link the flame, I'm not sure if she failed and therefore punishes herself for it, or if she realized the folly of her actions and decided to endure a penance imposed by herself. Just like the Witch, she tried to mess with the flame.
The Old Iron King, like the Four Kings, started meddling with the soul, the Kings with the art of Lifedrain; and the Iron King with the use of the Iron Scepter, manipulated souls to make his Iron Constructs become living beings. The five kings transgressed the "sanctity" of the soul.
It's been awhile since I last dived into DS2 lore, so I may be wrong.
@Tyrant Edgelord Wasn't chaos kind of always there? Like a primal force that gathers strength over time, hence why Alsanna says that the Old Chaos hungers still. It cannot be contained, only controlled.
@Tyrant Edgelord looks a little more than a rest come DS3.
@Tyrant Edgelord the flame of chaos can be rekindle before it goes out, much like the first flame
Thanks for this video! DS2 is my favourite, I know that makes me one of the odd fans out, but I definitely appreciate content like this.
Ds2 has the most change in environment and enemies, that’s why it’s my favourite, it feels like your in the world while in ds3 and one you will be staring at castle walls and undead people for 99% of it
I'm another DS2 SotFS fan. I pretty much just disliked the level of fanservice in DS3, where many locations and people reappeared without any explanation why.
@@starhalv2427 yeah idk what it is but I still love all the games just rate ds2 in its own league
@@starhalv2427 because ds2 decided to drop almost everything related to ds1 doesn't mean the readopting it is fanservice, Miyazaki didn't made ds2, just another random dude, and he decided to drop all the things from ds1, not Miyazaki, he had to fix that in ds3, maybe that's why ds2 fans call it fanservice
@@starhalv2427 i mean, this video shows exactly how much fan service was in DS2. It's less direct than DS3, but everything ties back to the first game in one way or another.
The rank up rewards for the Sunlight Covenant is a small shield with a design of a sunrise on it, Sunlight Spear, and a weapon called a Sun Sword, which belonged to Solaire
"This does have me wondering who will Patches be in Elden Ring?"
Lol
There is also mention of Kalameet and the Chosen Undead in the descriptions of the Dragon Knight weapons. The Dragon Knight weapons are said to be “forged from The Black Dragons tail”, where it is told that “the Black Dragon lost its tail to a brave warrior in a magnificent battle, and the tail was later used to forge several legendary weapons.”
An interesting throwback of the Chosen Undead canonically cutting Kalameet’s tail, but man, that’s a lot of legendary weapons just from one tail alone.
Man, I remember the joy of buying and playing DS2 for the first time. I felt like a kid once more. Hoping to get the same from Elden Ring.
Seeing how 2 is a 3/10, you better have a better time
Well elden ring it's almost DS3-2, so...
@@narommalagonmorales2663 les gooooo
@@toooydoeur dark souls 2 is a good game
@@Euclacian lol no
Correction: You dont need 4 great souls to open the door
You can also collect enough souls to get past it
Whether this is intentional by lore or not, this heavily implies that the lordsouls are not neccesary anymore (And considering the fact that the lordvessel is broken too, that makes a lot more sense on top as well)
Additionally: The God of Sun is not Solaire, its Gwyn.
Lorewise i've always thought of it as if you raise your soul memory high enough your soul becomes stronger than the lord souls allowing you passage.
Additionally Gwyn is also alluded to in the DLC’s like with Aldia
i did the 1 million souls thing cause i couldnt beat rotten 💀
Yes if you collect the 4 great souls the door of the Shrine of Winter opens automatically, if you collect at least 1 milion souls you can open the door yourself.
@@mahatmaniggandhi2898 The saddest part is that rotten is considered so easy people use him as a soul farm
i love how he asked who the Patches-esque character would be in Elden Ring and FromSoft just gave us Patches again, in all his bald-headed, squatting glory.
4:37 to expand on this, Seath is also a reference to the first King's Field, as the sword was given by the white dragon Seath to kill the black dragon Guyra (Which apparently it's Kalameet, in their reincarnation featured in Dark Souls)
You totally missed the shrine to Nito in the Shrine of Amana.
It's like a really wide flat fire basin I think? Up the tower after the petrified hollow and the 4th bonfire and with a milfanito. If you interact with it while completely hollow and possessing no Human Effigies, it will transform you into a human.
I always liked how DS2 really make everything that happened in DS1 seem like and actual legend unlike DS3 that felt more like fan service.
It's because DS2 is supposed to take place waaaay after DS1. Compared to DS3 which is way more coherent with DS1 and probably takes place before DS2.
There is another reference (which may not be one) well hidden with the Pilgrims of Dark. Grandal, the one who welcomes us to the Covenant, shares the same clothes and the same voice actor as the red sorcerer who flooded New Londo in DS1.
This is only a theory but it is likely that a Special Order of Wizards endured between DS1 and 2, linked to Dark control and potentially linked to Velka and the dragons. Velka because the DS1 sorcerer's mask recalls the figure of a crow (it is also a reference to the Venetian doctors during the plague), and the dragons because Grandal used and gives us the Dragon Chime directly linked to dragons of course. In addition to that we can find the set of Velka priests in the Dragon Earies at the end of the game.
One of the Reused Character Models no one seeme to talk about or point out is the Little Girl for the Painter World. When you first meet her Her Model is the Nurse from Bloodborne ( 3 times her Size) and later you see the Girl real form sitting on a Stool. Tiny as an Elf.
I asked for this and I’m so happy you delivered
The great thing about DS2 is that it wasn’t just another retelling of the same story from the first, much like DS3 had been. Yeah sure it had some clunky gameplay and whatnot, but when DS3 went right back into all the same DS1 content over again it seemed like they were just trying to push DS2 off to the side
You are aware that the main team didnt handle DS2 and that is why the story is different right?
I am not trying to be a D*ck but, you are aware of this right?
DS3's story is literally the opposite of DS1's, while DS2's stort is a sidestory to both games (while DS3 is a direct sequel to DS1)
@@GikamesShadow kind of true, miyazaki supervised ds2 development for a while and then started to work on bloodborne while they were still finishing ds2 and he came back to supervise scholar of the first sin, he wasnt the director of ds2 but he did work in ds2.
@@nuprahtor DS2 is more like the middle part of the story imo, introducing the cycles the entirety of Dark Souls 3 is based off and focusing hard on the actual undead curse.
@@dreamz1417 Fair enough, DS1 started the idea of linking the First Flame, DS2 showed us various kingdoms that happen to relink the First Flame again (with the whole overarching Aldia plot), and DS3 shows us what happens when you artificially prolong the life of the First Flame which should have been dead back in DS1's era.
I called it a sidestory because the developers tried to create lands that are from from Lordran, exploring the world outside of Gwyn's kingdom, while DS3 shows what happens to some of the locations from DS1. Though, there are some connections between DS1 and DS2's areas, but I think they are thematical and not geographical (not to mention the weird dream-like state of DS2's world which I really like). I'm inclined to believe that some of the places in DS2 are the far kingdoms mentioned in DS1
Im happy to see finally more people are giving a try and learning the story of my favorite souls game, it only took 7 years but still this is a win.
Understandable.
These days I see more and more people on the reddit saying how they thought it was bad but finally realized how good it is.
It's never too late!
The way I see it is when I compare it to other souls games it’s the worst of the bunch but when compared to other games it’s my favorite of them, being the worst of the best is still amazing and I can confidently say that dark souls 2 has so much more content and I couldn’t have certain moments I’ve had unless it’s in ds2
many of the ideas are fantastic, but the overall package, in combination of how you get the story and the characters, isnt that good
A nice little additional connection with Nito and the Rotten is that the weapon you can get from the Old Dead One’s Soul is wielded by Agdayne when you summon him.
If I remember correctly a theory and lore implication was that ornstein left smough and his position because he was following the nameless king that why in DS3 you find his set in the dragons peak
You forgot about the Xanthous set, obtained by the Pilgrims of the Dark. A long lost relic of Oolacile for some reason kept by those who cherish the Dark. In Dark Souls 1 was found in the Painted World of Ariamis, for the forlorn. In Dark Souls 2 we find a painting guardian and a forlorn, but no painting. In Dark Souls 3 we see Yorshka, whom was a crossbreed joined with Gwyndolin with a nearby dead painting guardian, we also see only a scrap of the painted world exists, but is inhabited with forlorn. In Dark Souls 1 Dusk described there were thoughts and emotions that belonged to Manus, these became the fragmentations that sought kings in DS2.
The lightning spear description wasn't referencing Solaire it was referencing Gwyn, Lord of Sunlight which is why it said "God of Sun". Solaire isn't even a god.
He'll always be a god in my heart 🗣️👏
@@craviel7360 Easily killed though for a god 😈.
@@Bonestorm1990 The good that was left held back
@@Bonestorm1990 true, but if you pit him against the actual Sun God in question, he actually does pretty damn well
Something I also find interesting that Seath was grantes the title of Duke. So the *Dukes* dear freya is perhaps more of a reference than we think. I've not yet played Ds2 and have no clue about freyas lore so I might be wrong, but I still think it's nifty.
The Duke's Dear Freja is the Dear Freja belonging to Duke Tseldora, an old dude found in the next room
He really liked spiders
One small note. The Duke's Dear Freja is not a remnant of Seath. Its the Duke himself. You pick up her soul detatched from her body.
You also find the Duke in his archives... literally referencing The Dukes Archives of DS1.
Its always been my headcanon that DS2 takes place several centuries, or even millennia, after DS1 (while DS3 is an alternate reality that only takes place a few decades/centuries after, as most of the geography and events line up).
DS2 is effectively "The Bad Ending" of the whole series. Where the cycle never stopped, and the world became lost. Nothing can be done to save this world. You sit on the throne, but your actions wont break this endless nightmare... While DS3 gives you the option for the "Good Ending", where you have the option to end the age of fire once and for all.
(Its also my headcanon that the Age of the Erdtree followed some time after... but thats a whole other thing)
If you mean the Duke from DS2 then no because he is literally in the room after the boss. If you meant that Freja is Seath then that makes no sense because we know Freja's backstory and also Seath is dead. Freja can be a spiritual successor to Seath though, like the Rotten is to Nito...
@mekacrab thats.... what I said... but the spider is not the one, its the Duke who is his successor. He just managed to put the paledrake soul into his creation
@@dawsonwarren1121 Oh ok, I thought you meant that the spider was the Duke.
I really like the small detail of the shattered Lordvessel in DS2 as it could be an explanation to why the old souls make an appearance. Perhaps after it shattered, these souls escaped in search of powerful souls to attach to. At least it makes more sense than Seath being able to take multiple forms since he was presumably bullied or looked down upon for his condition, and he had no immortality of his own.
Excellent video man, I hope you keep up uploading more :D
-Ornifex mentions that a "pale beast" was the source of her soul transformations technique, implying it to Seath, or possibly Priscilla
-Vendrick at one point repeats the opening lines of Dark Souls 1
Definitely Seath
DS2 is such a massively under appreciated game
I can tell you put in a ton of work in each and every one of your videos. Right after you post a new video I get excited for your next one. Hope to see some Elden Ring content when the game comes out.
Ps: Love the Hollow Knight soundtrack in the background.
The child of dragons referenced in the feather description is Shanalotte. She even says she was born of dragons.
6:06 Patches is Patches :^) who else?
6:04 "I wonder who patches will be in Elder Ring"
BOY OH BOY
0:30
The souls of great bosses are optional
You need "enough Powerful soul" it can be you own soul(>1000000SM)
the npc who makes boss weapons says that pyromancys were made by the old witch , but legends are legends
There's also a corpse of a dragon on the ceiling in the Duke's Freja room. Y'know, the one where you enter its drool to go into a memory to get the Ancient Dragon soul. Maybe ceiling guy is a descendant of Seath?
Nope,by it's memory it's very clear he was an ancient dragon who was killed by the gods,he is now just a corpse that rhe spiders are either eating or living in,maybe both
@goggles789 Hmm, well, not really. Not all dragons are ancient dragons. There's no insinuation that Seath had any descendants either. As a scaleless dragon he wasn't immortal like his contemporaries which is why he betrayed them. Thematically speaking, a spider with Seaths soul living inside and eating an ancient dragons makes sense.
@@eldencircle7216
There's a heavy implication that Priscilla is the daughter of Seath, though probably mostly through experimentation.
There is also Shira from DS3 as well, though her lack of Draconic qualities probably implies that she was adopted.
@@BattleguildThat's bang on bud - again there's a strong theme of posterity, longevity and legacy with Seath, who was the first "mortal" dragon. Frankly I don't have any doubts that Pricsilla was somehow sired by him. We see it repeated again with Ocierus in ds3 too - breeding of imperfect dragons.
As for Seath having any dragon relatives, we'll that's highly unlikely, especially in the ancient variety.
Funny enough you're right on Shira but it's doubtful she ever had any interaction with Seath directly. Interestingly she was adopted by Gwyndoline who has close ties with Seath and her mixed blood is reminiscent of Pricsilla. Remarkably there are a lot of products of Seaths work from the very beginning to the very end.
But my main point is this: despite Seath having a large body of work, there is no evidence of him having any direct dragon relatives or descendents. He's one of a kind.
@@eldencircle7216 Yorshka is the tower maiden.
Shira is the caretaker of Midir.
As for Yorshka:
I was thinking that either they are the daughter of Gwyndolin×Darkmoon Knightess, as they were somewhat close in DS1. (Knightess wore her armor to hide her features and she was a fire keeper. Gwyndolin has several failed dragon/serpent features. Yorshka is stationed right next to a Bonfire as well.)
Or they are Ocelotte* who was rescued from Ocierus by the Pontiff during his term there and given to Gwyndolin due to being their sister's child and doubling as an anchor to keep Gwyndolin from potentially leaving the city. Ocelotte* was raised as a female because Gwyndolin knew no other way from what they were taught. (The biggest credence to this, is the fact Yorshka was renamed at some point, and Yorshka has a few of King Ocierus's features.)
In either case, Gwyndolin taught Yorshka that Gwyn was their father, which I personally doubt due to the age disparity, because Gwyndolin wants Yorshka to carry on in their stead in Anor Londo's duties due to Gwyndolin's failing health from the poisoned water supply.
love how Patches in Elden Ring turned out to be... Patches
So let me see if i get this right. While the 1st and 3rd game focus on the plot of the linking of the fire, the reason the second game feels disconnected is because contrary to the others, the main story is focusing on the consequences of the death of manus all while taking place in a new era presumably during an age of fire?
If we skip forwards to DS3, it makes sense that the Old Dragonslayer doesn’t have Smough by his side. Smough stayed behind to guard the Cathedral, whilst Ornstein left to find the Nameless King. Since Heide was a land of light, with lightning wielding knights, it makes perfect sense that Ornstein would be there, trying to find his missing liege. Of course this assumes that Old Dragonslayer is the true Ornstein and not an imitation, but either way, Heide would be the perfect place to find Ornstein as he searches for NK.
Dragon Shrine seems to be acutely missing any dragon-slaying gods of war, so that’s probably why Old Dragonslayer wasn’t found there instead.
I have a feeling that the "Old Dragonslayer" is more something that the Heide Knights or the Order of Heide created. Not only is it not pure thunder the OD is using but Dark Thunder instead. This implies heavy corruption in their soul, which can hint at many different things. It is possible Ornstein visited Heides Tower at one point, helped them and then went on towards DS3
@@GikamesShadow mm. True. Or maybe NK himself visited them, he was prominent in Forossa after all
It's kinda funky how DS3 feels like a sequel to DS1 and DS2 feels like a sequel to DS3 and all games are a prequel to Bloodborne and Sekiro and somewhat of a midquel to Demon Souls and King's Field
Pulling off something similar to what the creators of the first 2 trilogies of Dragon Warrior games did with 3 happening before 1 and 2 and something similar with 4-6
The countries, characters and events of DS2 are referenced in DS3.
Also, Bloodborne was originally supposed to be Demon's Souls' sequel.
@Раконорожденный naw, Demon Souls and Bloodborne aren't related to Dark Souls in any direct way
Sekiro? It doesn't even feel like a typical FS game
@Раконорожденный nope, not even this somehow
I kinda thought Elden Ring would be a "bridge" between Soulsborne, but I start to doubt it
@Раконорожденный If Sekiro was set on the Age of Dark, everyone would be hollow.
hopping up on that roof in DS2 made me mumble 'hmm this looks familiar' and i was fucking right.
When you realize we've just been slowly devouring Elizabeth this whole time.
My freind said that the old dragonslayer was a ornstein impersonator. I think it's a valid explanation
In interesting coincidence occurs to me. Each of the four bosses that need to be defeated to open the Shrine of Winter seems to be associated with one of the Lord Souls needed for the Lord Vessel in DS1. One of those Lord Souls was that of the Four Kings, and which DS2 boss seems to be associated with the Four Kings? The Old Iron King. Except... is it really _just_ the Old Iron King? Is it a coincidence that the four shards of Manus' soul sought out four kings? Perhaps it's not just the Old Iron King, but also the Sunken King, the Ivory King, and Vendrick himself who each inherited the legacy of the Four Kings. The shards of the Father of the Abyss sought out the heirs to the Four Kings of the Abyss. Maybe.
Aside from a minor detail or two (someone already commented on the "Warriors of Sunlight" covenant), good video. I mean, I had noticed pretty much everything you cover, but it is a very nice compilation, and your discussion on the fragments of Manus' soul is an interesting take.
Manus' soul actually departed into 5 fragments... the connection is the pursuers spell that you get from the soul of manus in ds1.
Love how you used the hollow knight greenpath I think theme
*gigachad photo*
Patches will be patches
It is also worth mentioning that when talking to Sweet Shalquoir, she gives a description of four beings with a powerful soul in a way that tells both their current form and past.
1:00 Ok this is the second video I've heard people say this in, and I don't know why anyone is going along with it. It just isn't true, those statues are in no way identical. The outfit is completely different, the head is different, even the sword has some differences in its shape. The differences are too plentiful and too distinct to write it off as a "different interpretation" or something, they just simply aren't depicting the same figure. Their only similarity is the pose, which is just a generic "sword at rest" pose. Who even started this idea?
00:00 Glad to see somebody bring this up, I feel like this bit of lore isn't discussed as much as it should be. The game seems to hint at the Lost Sinner being the Witch of Izalith herself, a fragment of her, or a host body inhabited by the chaos insect she became. Really interesting stuff that i don' see brought up much.
1:57 This is 100% w/out a doubt NOT referencing Solaire. This is referring to Gwyn, literally known as the "Lord of Sunlight." And the covenant, while still related to Gwyn, is technically the covenant of his firstborn sun, the god of war known as the "Nameless King," from his boss fight in the third game. This entry has got to be a troll lol.
7:25 I'm fairly certain that it is never explicitly stated that there are only 4 shards of Manus. Karla in Dark Souls 3 is most definitely a shard, and because of this it is possible that there are more in existence, each being a physical manifestation of human emotion. I personally believe Karla is most likely shame or regret.
Wait, that would actually be awesome if there was more shards! What makes you say Karla is one?
If I remember right Karla is the witch you find in the dungeons and the lore in Ds3 hints at her being the child of Alva and Zullie the witch
@@logotron112 Karla is either the daughter of, or is Zullie the witch herself, which already gives her a connection to the abyss. She is referred to multiple times as a "child of the abyss," which is one of the common ways that shards of Manus are referred to as in DS2. She also seems to not just sell dark spells, but has a deep and intimate knowledge of the dark nature within man. Plus, judging by the description of her clothing, she is most likely very old. Much older than most regular humans live.
my take on some of this:
The lost sinner is Yhorm the giant's lost loved one. we see this referred with the aristocrat's statues on the profaned capitol and on lost fortress. she is called a sinner and we know that "sin" reference the linkin of the flame, and we also have the profaned flame ,an everlasting flame. so, we could say that the bed of chaos is ,as the flame itself, a permanent cycle of born and death, that took possession of pyromancers that learned lost pyromancies to continue her attempt to recreate the flame, the lost sinner was containing the bed of chaos. since the handcuff you get of her set gives you more powerful pyromancies and on ng+ pyromancers defend her on the boss fight. so yeah, i think lost sinner created the profaned flame of ds3. so in a way that fucking bug is on the entire trilogy (based on my theory)
now, as for Ornstein, i say its an illusion that the original ornstein lefted on strategic places of the world. we see birdlike statues all along heide, and one of the bosses of the place is a dragon rider. to give this some context. we need to (again) go to ds3. in archdragon peak on ds3. we fought Sen (nameless king, gwyn's son) that for some reason,he betrayed his father, and joined the remaining dragons. his loyal comrade Ornstein went after him later, taking the path of the dragon and becoming himself the king of the storm, a drake. that my take is, that drakes, are people that achieved full dragon powers.
thats why we see a scene really reminiscent of the ornstein vs smough fight when nameless king absorbs the powers of his fallen comrad. and that's the reason we get ornstein's original armour on the same place that fight took place. so yeah, my guess is that, such as Sen went and formed a new kingdom on archdragon peak,Ornstein was leading similar stuff on different places, perhaps even on Forossa
drakes are two legged, dragons are quadrupeds . thats why the red one added on Sotfs before fighting Ornstein is on is legs. to add more context to that point. i'd say we have this 2 boss fights on this place to represent a past fight between the both of them, Ornstein having more respect for the drakes and and vendrick just want it to use them as vehicles( i guess)
@goggles789 No, dragons are everlasting, wyverns and drakes are the ones we encounter on ds mostly.
perhaps my english isn't that good. but on the profaned capitol, you can see some statues of bald mans in ropes with books or lifting things, we can see the same type of statue on the lost fortress.
That, and that the sinner is "lost" so we don't really don't know anything of her besides having pyromancies and bed of chaos in her.
my relation on both storylines rely on the flame sin. Aldia, Scholar of the first sin, is the one that wanted to be immortal and the most interested person ever on the purpose of the flame, but the keyword here is to understand that the first sin is corrupting the regular cycle of life, playing with the flame. Gwyn is fhe first sinner, then witches of Izalith tried to replicate it. and after that the profaned flame appears on ds3 without much lore to it, it just says that is everlasting, that isn't natural on the ds universe.
i mean it makes sense to make, you got anything better to work with?
that, and that you've got some easter eggs of ds2 going around there, like the ladder dude of the majula pit/hole.
of course there isn't any direct connection between both things, but that's exactly what Miyazaki is all about, ive seen on one of vatividia's videos that he gave personal context to it, he said " when i was young i barely knew any english, so when i readed fantasy books there were some words i didn't understand and had to fill the gaps with my imagination " and that's how we must take ds. i know ds1 is the most comprehensive one since you can understand most of it from scratch, but for the rest of the games the space/time disruption became a thing with much relevance, even with ds2 that wasn't directed by Miyazaki. just clarifying this so perhaps you can find more lore relations on the games that people hasn't yet with the right mindset :) .
miyazaki is all about artistic vanguard
2:08 just to clear up possible confusion, this isn’t a direct reference to Solaire. “Gross incandescence” are the only words that would be in reference to him, calling back to how he wanted to be so “grossly incandescent” when he was speaking to us about the sun. Though, he isn’t the “god of sun” that is referenced, he was a mere undead just like the player, the god of sun it’s referencing is the Nameless King.
The ornstein in ds1 was an illusion, the one in ds2 was real.
No he wasnt
Ornstein went to look for the Nameless King in DS3, you can find his armor near the arena and also context clues and lore indicate heavily that he is the Dragon the Nameless King rides on.
@@GikamesShadow Ornstein had already left Anor Londo before the chosen undead came. And lore implies that, just like Havel, he learned the ways of the occult after Gwyn left so that the other Gods couldn't keep him in Anor Londo anymore without a fight. This fully explains why he uses dark instead of lighting in ds2, and why you find the old Leo ring. He did indeed leave to find the Nameless King, but to find means that Ornstein didn't know where the king was. Therefore he had to search in many places. As for ds1, the only real people left there were Gwendolyn, Smough, and the Giant Blacksmith. Everything else, which is proven after turning Anor Londo to night after hitting Gwynevere, is an illusion.
do the connections between ds1 and ds3. it'll be a 14 hour video lmao
but this makes me happy, as polarizing as ds2 is, i am glad it took a more subtle approach to the previous game.
The problem with all this lore (which you did a great job of explaining) is that it makes no sense in the context of Dark Souls III. Gwyn's soul is in the Soul of Cinder. There's no explanation of how it went from being in the Kiln, to the Iron Keep, then back to the Kiln. DS2 is incoherent in the context of the series.
Gwyn probably had a soul of his own
Or part of the lord soul went missing after he went hollow
Dark Souls 3 attempted to explain all the lore weirdness with the time and space being converging or something. The soul that's in the Soul of Cinder may aswell be some Gwyn from another dimension. Dark Souls 3 is weird like that.
Or it's completely unrelated and just some leftover fuel from when Gwyn initally burned himself that stayed in the first flame. Or Dark Souls 2's gwyn soul is one of the shards because Gwyn really like splitting his soul into pieces.
There's a lot of things that could've happened, Dark Souls 2 really isn't incoherent at all.
@@dreamz1417 There's a lot of things that could've happened if you're willing to wildly speculate with no basis in the game.
The lore of Dark Souls and Dark Souls 3 is incredibly consistent, with the only exceptions being the references to Dark Souls 2.
0:50 If I remember correctly he is an Ornstein imitator that he heard about I didn't know him well and that's why his weapon and armor description is different in DS1
In the Dark Souls 2 Network Test, the Lightning Spear miracle more explicitly references Solaire.
Edit: The lacky boss Prowling Magus and Congregation is NOT a Dark Souls 1 reference to Pinwheel, but a Demon's Souls reference to Fool's Idol.
Edit 2: Despite no Painted World in Dark Souls 2, a Painting Guardian appears in Aldia's Keep starting in Journey 2 onwards, and has a rare chance to drop the set pieces and weapons.
Pinwheel was inspired from the Fool's Idol boss fight from Demon's Souls anyway, both bosses use magic and make clones of themselves to fight, and both bosses have low HP which makes them easy to kill.
Brand new viewer as of last night. I already am a big fan. This video especially blew my mind.
also the fact the ivory king was the only one to redeem there shard of manus is fitting, not only is the ivory king fighting chaos, a form of fire, darks opposite, that like the abyss corrupts nad mutates, thus its fitting hes the one to find a piece of the abyss that doesent corrupt, it also makes sense that he earned her genuine love threw showing her genuine love in kind, the very think manus was seeking out
Smough isn't there because he actually stayed behind and did his job.
You can enter to the painting with doll as a key the crow smith has a lot of theme nice touch.
Great video. These obscure connections are why I love ds2.
How do you know that dark souls 2 isnt a painted world. The beginning cinematic reminds me of when you dive out if the paintings but what if the reflection of the world in the cinematic is some sort of mirror workd like the painted world
“Who will be patches in elden ring?” patches. He will be patches
5:09 maybe DS2 takes place IN a painted world.
You can also find Ricard's rapier in a cave at Huntsman's Copse if you get down to the bottom of it using the mushrooms
But who's Ricard
@@patfenis675 he is the knight at the top of Sen' fortress. He uses a longbow but switches to a rapier if you move closer
@@aronaranyossy That's Ricard?
I thought it was some hollow that lost his way
@@patfenis675 he is canonically as his armor tells he turned hollow, but he doesn't respawn. Not a very important character but still a reference from the first game :)
2:05 this makes no sense, since when is Solaire a "god of sun"
maybe he did become a small deity, so many people love and cherish him.
He is stated by Miyazaki to have become a Lord of Cinder (assuming you saved him from the Sunlight Maggot), and it can be guessed that the true details of his story were exaggerated over the ages. Same thing with Evlana.
the hollow knight songs somehow are perfect for dark souls lore content
I know it’s so weird but it’s amazing
How dare you put Hollow Knight music in this video and restore the sad memory of silksong not being here
My head canon has always been that dark souls 2 is the sequel to ds1 when you let the flame burn out and dark souls 3 is the sequel if you keep the flame alive
DS2 builds upon the world so well. You really feel the weight of the actions of Gwyn and the other lords, but it also feels very distant from it. DS3 did not do as good of a job.
Ds3 did many things wrong but not feeling the effects of Gwyn’s linking of the first flame is absolutely not one of them lmao. The world is collapsing in on itself, abyssal monstrosities are running rampant, the world is dead and decaying and the sun is dying out lmao, what do you mean? Even linking the flame does nothing now.
The only world building DS2 did well were the daughters of manus and further elaborating on what exactly manus and the abyss were.
you feel nothing in ds2 in connection of gwynns actions.
ds3 is of the bring of collapse...which fits the bill. nothing personal but you okay buddy?
Almost everything in DS3 felt like fan service to me. In DS2 it's just built into the world and most of the inhabitants aren't even aware of the influence.
@@robbieclark1784 reddit take
@@thebigenchilada678 I dunno what that means, but ok. That’s what I thought after playing the games.
A little detail I love is that the connections to DS1 are done in a way to imply so much time has passed that the first game is so far in the past it's beyond even legend.
0:02 Mothra cosplay
Ds2 is dark souls with bonus types of gameplay
3:50 not only do they spell Nito, the woman’s spells *MILF* -anito
Love your videos, great storytelling, hungry for more!!
0:24 I think the Old Iron King comes from Gwyn's lord soul, not the four kings. I guess the four kings could work to because they have pieces of Gwyn's soul, but idk.
Duuuude that intro 😱😱😱😱😱 I watched it like 6 times :D
dark souls is genius. they set up a “time is convoluted” plot so they can re-use assets and fans will think “whoa dude loreeeee”
re-using assets in new contexts is normal smart gamedeving and being annoyed at it shows a lack of passion for art ngl
@@dopaminecloudfunny. whenever cod or assassins creed comes out it’s “the same game every year” but when dark souls does it it’s “intricate lore”. be consistent in your “passion for art” ngl
@@fulltimeslackerii8229 souls doesnt come out every year, and is actually good. and are actually complete games upon release not riddled with microtransactions, its not hard to see.
bruh, you aint seen a free-er sub than mine, absolutely loved it
Who patches will be in Elden ring sorry he’s just patches lol