There was a really good example of a clone having PTSD in rebels. It happens when the Rebels go to Agamar and Rex lays eyes on a super tactical droid. He calls out for Cody and that whole episode, Rex was grumpy. It’s like Kanan said “battles leave scars, some you can’t see”
Another good example of past humans trying to explain PTSD is an ancient record from ancient Mesopotamia where a soldier suffering from PTSD was diagnosed as being attacked by the ghosts of the enemies he'd killed. Which is both a surprisingly accurate way to think about it, and an example from the past where the sufferer wasn't blamed as somehow weak for suffering from the condition.
PTSD is proof that your strong enough to survive trauma. and yet PTSD is considered a weakness. I am not weak, I've broken something that can't be fixed, it's like telling a paraplegic to stop crying be a big boy and walk.
I get it. I guess the problem is we all understand trauma from battlefield or many under estimate it. While with civilians "trauma" is getting more and more used and over used.
I have PTSD from watching my body just... wither from Leukemia and coming within according to doctors " about ten to fifteen minutes of death if the doctors didn't shoot me full of a hero's dose of chemo. " And I'll have horrible nightmares of waking up in the hospital bed barely able to move again, or being diagnosed with a relapse of Leukemia and knowing I can't win a second round against it.
@Khornecussion I know this was 6 days ago but I have had Leukemia twice and I also have those problems the best thing that I have found to work and calm me down is knowing that there is a new therapy that is extremely effective and isn’t chemo called T-Cell therapy and I took part of the trials and It works amazing so try I know it’s hard but try to not over stress about it cause you can’t control it and it gets better with time I promise you. Stay strong cause I know you are and good luck out there
The fact that the Coruscant stationed clone troopers react too, hints to the dreams being part of them regardless of the clone being at the frontlines. Being stationed on Coruscant should keep the exposure to war at a minimum.
It's not as though Coruscant was entirely peaceful, especially on the lower levels. With that many people, conflict is inevitable. I wouldn't be surprised if the Coruscant Guard dealt with a gang war or something similar at one point.
@@caninelupus8369 The police used to hunt Ahsoka, when she was hiding down there, weren't clones. Not that the Coruscant guard couldn't be involved with dealing with gangs, as you suggest.
Fun Fact: Before the prequel trilogy, when there was no information about the clone wars people use to think that Obi-Wan was a clone & that his name was a play on his “designation” OB-1 (OB standing for something like original body). Even though it’s untrue it’s a cool example of the fans showing interest in the wider lore & developing head cannon.
@@jeremiahmorris1852 I've heard it a lot, but only on the internet from people who say they heard it back then, but they're probably mostly 20 year olds
@@cloudmaster182yeah I've heard of it, but like you said only recently on the internet. I literally grew up with Star Wars seen the first one at age 11 and nobody ever thought Obi-Wan was a clone😂😂
@Wyomingchief - I remember hearing some fellow nerds talking about the OB-1 theory at a comic convention in the mid 90s. And this was when the interwebs was in its infancy, and "social media" wasn't a thing at all yet. They also thought that the Mandalorians would play a huge role in the Prequels, which kind of turned out to be true...from a certain point of view.
When Tup's chip activates, the boys in the 501st discuss whether it might be some kind of combat fatigue and Kix says something along the lines of "You know we were bred to be resistant to that kind of thing." ...but I guess resistant does not equal immune, and the amount and intensity of the horrific experiences piled on the clones is just too much to overcome.
There's another disturbing thing about the Clones themselves. Remember that they are the result of accelerated ageing, but in spite of how they look, there is (at best) a 10 to 13 year old boy inside the body going through all of this. Quite literally an army of adult-looking children.
The clones seemed to take on personality traits from thier generals, 501st was more daring and wreckless thanks to anakin, 212th was thoughtful and strategic under Obi-wan, the corusant guard had Palpatine...
Kinda sad how he died though. Choked by Vader in an instant because he forgot to tell his troops that this one lightsaber wielding scary guy in armor was not, in fact, a Jedi, and on the Empire's side.
I'm a US Army Veteran. I served during peace time. I had a period of harassment when I served that when I retell it to someone who will listen I'll "re-live" it and my heart beats out of my chest. I made a service connected claim on it and since I couldn't sit down and write it out or tell it the VA denied my claim. Though weeks before I had to endure the examination I had a huge panic attack and had to go on some heart medication for most of a year. I'm also in a Veteran Support Group that meets every week. Most of the Vets in it are Vietnam Era and man those guys went thru Hell then when they returned they went through some more Hell on the home front. There is a guy in it that I believe was a Navy SEAL and he complains of suffering from PTSD for the last 30 yrs. He's also highly critical of the VA which seems to have a policy of drugging up people who suffer from mental trauma. I think a lot of it is spiritual in nature because when the drugs wear off there's this person who seems possessed who can't sit still or is bent on a self destructive course of action. I've suggested to the people in the Mental Health Department they should have intramural sports there as we were trained as units and we should heal in units too. Btw the series of books that I thought come close to the feeling of being in a military unit was the Republic Commando books by Karen Traviss. I'm also disappointed there wasn't more than one Republic Commando video game. Doesn't Disney just destroy everything they touch? Thanks for the video.
Rex thought Cody was next to him, but i can't remember exactly what happened in that episode since it's been a while since i watched Rebels, but i can say that it was either Ezra or Kanan next to Rex, and not Cody. So yes, Rex definitely does have PTSD
I heard of one soldier describe his PTSD nightmares as being in Iraq, under fire or running from something. He'd watched a werewolf movie and had a dream of being chased through Baghdad by a werewolf. He knew it was a nightmare, that it didn't happen, but he couldn't stop running until he woke up.
I never really noticed that about the scene when Tup was dying. The non-Clones in the room all looked to be confused or trying to figure out what he meant. Meanwhile the Clones seemed to be passing glances at each other in understanding. Even if they personally aren't having that recurring nightmare every Clone must know somebody who is.
A clone wars show about any of the other hundreds of clone units and other battles is all I want. We did not get to see enough clone wars in The Clone Wars, nor did we see half the vehicle and units from episode 3
In addition to combat PTSD, I bet a fair share of clones have TBIs (traumatic brain injuries) from the war. I feel like Crosshair might have developed a TBI from that Venator engineer in season 1 ripping his head open.
In WWI there was a British doctor who tried to treat PTSD for soldiers in the trenches. The problem was that 30% or more soldiers were starting to suffer from it, and rather than admit that there was a problem with what was happening on the front, they started to accuse the soldiers of cowardice and it became institutionalize procedure to not 'treat' it. Instead they used anesthetics like ether or chloroform, or even electroshock treatment. Barbaric.
While conflated with PTSD during the first World War, during the second it was discovered that "Shell Shock" was its own distinct issue with it's own injuries and symptoms. The name stuck because its very apt. Shell Shock is a neurological injury caused by repeated exposure to sudden increases in overpressure. Individual physiology can greatly effect susceptibility. The symptoms are basically the same as for TBI plus issues with hearing, tinnitus and balance due to unner ear damage, but unlike TBI, can eventually go away if the patient is removed from any place they would be exposed to over pressure quickly enough. Its mostly gone away in the modern war because of the weapons and tactics we use no longer rely on long term saturation shelling/bombing, the typical cause of Shell Shock.
3M has agreed to pay $6 billion to resolve roughly 300,000 lawsuits alleging that the manufacturing company supplied faulty combat earplugs to the military that resulted in significant injuries, such as hearing loss.
Wouldn't that make 'Shell Shock' a subset of PTSD? While there are differences, the combat in the trenches was brutal, so I would think that differentiating between the cases of Shell Shock and PTSD would be difficult. Easier today with the advances in medical technology which can find the neural injury as well as the advances in psychology. I imagine you would have a lot of mixed cases, where you had to treat both conditions together. As well as isolated cases where you could assign only one of both treatments.
@@Dreamfox-df6bg no PTSD is completely psychological, Shell Shock is a physical injury and more closely related to TBI. It is caused by being exposed to sudden, repeated, short lived increases in air pressure over a prolonged period. The sudden increase and release of pressure disrupts neural function. It's like hitting your head in a serious car accident. Ptsd is a completely psychological ailment resulting from prolonged exposure to physical danger, or the sincere belief thereof. Evidence from WW1-Afghanistan also indicates that there is a social/cultural component as well in that if the patients are treated like moral pariahs or ignored like Viet Vets or Korean Vets, respectively rates of PTSD increase significantly and treatment is very difficult, while if they're treated like guys who "did what was needed" or heros like for the World War vets rates drop and treatment success rates skyrocket. PTSD at this point appears to be a conflagration of multiple battle and social stress disorders with multiple causes and that seem to vary from individual to individual. The only real consistency is it being reaction to mental trauma. Even the symptoms are somewhat inconsistent once you get away from the MSM depiction. It makes some people into involuntary pacifists, unable to defend themselves, and then there's the patients it essentially turns into the Punisher, who typically go undiagnosed due to non stereotypical symptoms.
@@Dreamfox-df6bg also treatment is completely different. For SS just get them away from the pressure area quickly enough and they'll be fine. No therapy, maybe a mild sedative to knock them out while symptoms abate. If they've been exposed too long the neural damage will be permanent and show symptoms similar to Parkinson's. PTSD *always* requires months to years of rehab as you're dealing with a "wiring issue" that requires shifting the patient's perspective away for hyper fixation on their trauma and its prevention. You don't really want to give drugs to these folks if possible. They generally don't react great, especially with SSRI class antidepressants. They aren't depressed they're *scared* and SSRIs are GREAT at pushing fear into rage & sadness into hopelessness when misprescribed. Which leads to mass casualty events
I do like how you draw parallels between the fictional stories and real life. Without getting emotional, all I'll say is that I really appreciate that.
Ow, saw the title and my copyeditor brain bounced hard off the difference between “Clones can’t get PTSD right” and “Clones can’t get PTSD, right?” But it made me click, so-ok, ok, I’ll sit back down and be quiet and watch the vid.
Got into a couple of car crashes in less than one year. Yeah, I believe it can cause PTSD, as car crashes are now an all too often recurring nightmare and constant fear each time I'm on my M-F commute.😢
When Attack of the Clones first came out, people couldn't figure out why I thought the 'mustering' scene... all the clone scenes in the whole movie for that matter, were sad. NOW, more people get it...
The Clone Wars especially The Bad Batch resonate with mine own experiences in the Army. I am a retired Green Beret and avid fan of everything Star Wars, but when I started down the path of The Clone Wars, I get a bit emotional. More when you see the random Clones we don’t get to meet die off. I feel at times feel the loss of those die hit the hardest. Seeing the random Ukrainian and Russian soldiers isn’t something I find enjoyable. Understanding warfare is a thing, I now understand life being more complicated especially when there is conflict with opposing views. As a Green Beret, our role was often like that of the Jedi. Serving many roles, military ambassadors, advisors, trainers, and leaders who fought alongside Host Nation troops. We provide additional support that the Host Nation often lacked as well as stand down with local leaders discussing ways to bring about peace in the regions we served. Anyway, not to make this about me, this series definitely hit upon key points of my career and glad to see the silent issues addressed in the form of entertainment.
I dont know if the chip necessarily put the clones into a state rather than just plain overrode their motor functions altogether. Rex was visibly struggling, even was able to call off his men saying he would handle ashoka, before physically shaking from trying to fight off whatever was happening. It was like when it came to the jedi, they were hijacked. But with rebels, and bad batch, its shown that the clones can turn against the empire, which you would think the chips would render that impossible.
As a non-military guy with PTSD from childhood, I can tell that it changes your life whether you like it or not. Best to face up to it and learn how to live again.
The clone wars literally came out right after I PCS’d out of the military due to injuries suffered downrange. Being a Star Wars fan I watched. It cause it was Star Wars content but holy crap did the clone story arcs cement my love for the clones. It’s such a great medium to introduce complex issues surrounding war, soldiers, gov’t, politics, and sacrifice. The very means of what it is to be a soldier. So many arcs of that series resonate with me that it is still my heads down favorite piece of Star Wars and tv in general. I am loving the direction they have been taken it too with the batch, tales of the xxxx, and hopefully a rex show. Live to fight another day boys, life to fight another day….
I don't think I technically have PTSD, but childhood (and adult) trauma has definitely f**ked up my brain in the form of chronic anxiety, and trust and self esteem issues Sometimes I think chronic anxiety is the most hellish experience in existence. Would rather experience an hour of being-kicked-in-the-balls-pain everyday, TBH. Watching this channel is a nice break from it all. Thanks Generation Tech guy! 🙏
As a veteran, I really like/ agree with what you said about it. we're not just changing our bodies but changing our minds/brains. I appreciate your viewpoint.🙏
Facing the horrors of war was easy. We did it together. But, failure to save your buddies...It burns into your soul. You lose your fear, become hyper focused on fighting, You push harder.... Folks back home see our behavior and are scared. And it only begins to make sense once we walk away and try to stop. Working through it all. It takes years. Best of luck. Phil
Its crazy to think in a few years time you're told "You are the most advanced army ever created, literally. You were MADE to be the best, and you are." To "You have become problematic and too expensive. You are no longer needed, but will be used if you play by our rules, which have become incredibly self serving." PTSD was inevitable with all the sacrifices they made in the name of the Republic willingly and bravely, only to be considered toys that aren't wanted anymore.
I wonder how many clones had to live on coruscant after their retirement, considering how much the public has been turned against them. Coruscant would probably be the worst place or one of the worst places for clone troopers to be, especially in the lower levels of the planet.Knowing that palpatine made them do many terrible things.
I really appreciate the PTSD portrayal in Clone Wars. A lot of PTSD focus is on trauma and violence. But people forget a lot of it can also be from not understanding what you’re doing and that you’re compelled to do it, aka military orders or parental abuse of authority.
David Drake wrote a fantastic book about future commandos dealing with PTSD and how they and he government dealt with it. The book was called “Red Liners”.
Felucia was PTSD. "It's been said that the 501st got the best of the war. We also got the worst. On Felucia, the Seps dug their metal heels into the muck of that alien hellhole and dared the Republic to come in after them. So we did, only to be met with month after month of flesh-eating diseases, shrieking nocturnal predators, and other sights that haunt me to this day. Cut off, and for all we knew abandoned by our superiors, our only hope was Aayla Secura, our Jedi commander. Without her iron will, none of us would have come out of that mess with our sanity or our lives. When her death came, I hope it was quick. She earned that much."
I had strokes when I was little that caused brain damage. I became friends with this kid when I was in the hospital. Long story short I survived and he didn’t. Ever since I’ve blamed myself and seen him every time I sleep so I don’t sleep much. Idk if it’s PTSD but it sucks
Its funny and a bit annoying at times when my college classmates find out I was in the Marines. One asked me once what was the worst thing I had ever expereinced while in. I usually dont say anything to negative, yet I was on new meds and I had a moment of vulnerability. I straight up said the worst thing I had expereinced was watching my friend die in my arms. Couldnt even hear crickets in the room.
They should've made him the main character. A former Stormtrooper and have him made a vow of not killing his fellow Stormtroopers since like him, they all were strip away from their families as infants. And try to get them to see that they're not just mindless droids they were made to be.
Thanks Alan for this topic. I glad you also included non-vets who also suffer. Thankfully because they were looking at Vets and their PTSD attention started to be focus on non veg also. Good video🌹
One thing to keep in mind, PTSD can take YEARS to develop, say a car crash happened 6 years ago, you could be living your life, slightly shaken up for a few days only for it subside. Fast forward a few years, you can experience something else, and compounded with your previous experience, may result in the formation of PTSD. One case, a police officer who was at ground zero on 9/11, didn’t suffer any nightmares, until his brother passed away in a plane accident in the 2010s. His brother’s accident brought back the trauma of sept 1st, even tho it was years prior. Show some love to your local first responder, the job gets horrific at times
I found in most cases with First responders, it will typically start manifesting several years after moving on to a different line of work or retiring. And yes it's usually triggered by something mundane in a lot of cases
In most science fiction stories clones are seen as less than the original in spite of being a copy. And that's displayed often from the opening battle of the war. So many lives lost in what ended up being a proxy war between the Jedi and the Sith.
While I was in the what happened to the Clones made me take a good long look in the mirror and ask myself “if I was ever in the same position would I ever know it?”
There’s a good example of this in American Sniper. When he’s back from a tour and at a birthday party, Chris’ PTSD kicks in and he finds himself ready to kill a kid that was being a nuisance. This isn’t him, it’s the trauma taking over his actions, much like what the inhibitor chips would have done to the clones.
Imagine a Clone Wars miniseries written by Lucas, Filoni, n Gilroy, directed by Spielberg, and produced by Tom Hanks like Band of Brothers but in space
Clones are genetically modified against PTSD, when Tup gunned down General Tiplar on Ringo Vinda, Fives outright says that clones are designed to resist ANY combat stress.
@@heavy5013 On Umbara, they were attacked by steam punk, new age, centipede tanks from hell, forced to walk through live minefields, attacked by subterranean penis plant monsters, subjected to needless loss of life, subjected to the needless execution of their own brothers for illegitimate reasons, tricked into killing and being killed by their own comrades, and had their world view of the Jedi shattered. All in one day.... I think if PTSD were possible, it might have shown itself then. But no, the clones didn't shut down, they got angry and then got even.
@starkdilemma4916 And you ignore the moments of legitimate PTSD that appear later, most notably in Rebels with Rex. And it's very possible some did develop it from Umbara but were never shown. There were hundreds or thousands of Clones involved. They're not immune. Clones can be affected by the trauma of war.
Every major Star Wars fan knows Sidious most heinous crime wasn’t the extermination of the Jedi. It wasn’t even blowup up Andor it was what he did to the clone troopers.
The entirety of Palpatine/Darth Sidious’s existence could probably be labeled as “one very long and horrible crime against life and sentience across the galaxy.”
This is why I love the Clone War It's more down to earth for both kids and adults could enjoy Besides mandaloria, the other series are not interesting They're more like Saturday am shows 😐
@@deathangellink Those are all independent books, but a lot of Drake's work was about PTSD, and it probably won't surprise you when I say he served in 'Nam. If you want a Star Wars book specifically, try Shatterpoint, which is basically Heart of Darkness in Star Wars. It's also a good book in general.
One theory I heard about why we have nightmares (or dreams in general) is because our brains are running through scenarios that worry us and we are trying to plan how to handle them. Of course if we can't find a solution to the scenario that is going to make the nightmare worse.
Became a diabetic in 2012. I battled and was failing to keep it under control. After 5 years my personality became destructive in many different ways. Then COVID happened. I wound up getting COVID and ended up going into Diabetic Ketoacidosis & Pancreatitis. Ended up in ICU. I was pumped full of morphine. I woke up 5 days laters and I haven't been the same since mentally and emotional. Since then I have had severe depression, diagnosed as bipolar and also diagnosed with severe PTSD. So yeah, that is all going on all while trying to maintain my diabetes. Fun stuff lol...
@@Hello-bi1pm Yes, pancreatitis can be connected to diabetes, although it's not always clear how. Nor is it mutually exclusive. One can have either and it not be a result of the other and vice versa. For me it was during the pandemic. I got Covid-19 and ended up in ICU for Diabetic Ketoacidosis / Pancreatitis. That was 7/2020 and I haven’t been the same since.
Another factor that plays into the idea of them being outnumbered and almost constantly on the front lines is that a lot of times PTSD doesn't present itself until the person has left the combat zone or the service, Although ofcourse their exceptions but I always thought that the real problems would start post war when the clones are discharged.
Sometimes, it could take years to develop, which, would probably extra screwed up, just going about your life, the wars years behind, and then one night, you’re back there again
Hi @generationtech I agree! My thought lately has been that the inhibitor chip has two hand in hand functions, to suppress higher thoughts and to enhance specific signals. As consciousness is electrical signaling, habits are like more active paths, and strong reinforced habits, I.e. addictions are like superhighways these signals travel from dendrites to axions. Watching how the regular clones slowly regressed after order 66 makes me think the inhibitor looses effectiveness after it was activated. Like how when substance use over time causes a decreased effect due to the brain trying to rebalance. (Too much of a neurotransmitter present, the brain makes more receptor sites to use it so it’s not in surplus which happens with Nicotine for example) The inhibitor chip causes certain paths to be followed for an effect , anger fear against Jedi plus the need to’ scratch an itch’ Rex was able to slow it down only because he was conscious of this from fives and tup. Any thoughts?
There was a really good example of a clone having PTSD in rebels. It happens when the Rebels go to Agamar and Rex lays eyes on a super tactical droid. He calls out for Cody and that whole episode, Rex was grumpy. It’s like Kanan said “battles leave scars, some you can’t see”
Rex talking about not wanting to bury anymore Brothers in The Bad Batch cuts deep.
@@AKUNJIG 😢😢😢
He did it bc he’s gonna kill Cody in bad batch
geez spoiler alert@@thunderfreeze1544
@@thunderfreeze1544what? How do you know that?
Another good example of past humans trying to explain PTSD is an ancient record from ancient Mesopotamia where a soldier suffering from PTSD was diagnosed as being attacked by the ghosts of the enemies he'd killed.
Which is both a surprisingly accurate way to think about it, and an example from the past where the sufferer wasn't blamed as somehow weak for suffering from the condition.
‘Being attacked by the ghosts of your enemies you slew in battle’.
No, that is not inaccurate at all.
If anything, it is the Head of the Nail you hit.
PTSD is proof that your strong enough to survive trauma. and yet PTSD is considered a weakness. I am not weak, I've broken something that can't be fixed, it's like telling a paraplegic to stop crying be a big boy and walk.
@@CarnytheM-mv5uowell put. I like the dramatic spacing❤
@@lukesayers5850
Unfortunately because of what these Clones went through, what they were bred and created to do…
“Good Soldiers, Follow Orders…”
It seemed like both Wolf and Kanan had PTSD flashbacks when they saw each other. They both immediately snapped back to Order 66.
"Jedi... they've come from revenge " * starts shooting...
Yeah mate that's dreaded fear becoming reality
The Clones were the most human of the entire franchise. They earned our respect.
They have, and for those who have passed on?
Those Brothers have Earned, their Rest.
Vode an…
Cannon fodder humanity. Tragic, but creates an esprit d corps like nothing else.
Lest we forget.
Echo has a straight up PTSD flashback in the first episode of The Bad Batch
Everything he experienced is still fresh for him then, pretty much picks up where Echo's rescue leaves off
I like how you mentioned that PTSD isn’t only in military, I’m actually unable to join because I suffer from it because of abuse as a child
Trauma is evreywhere, but somehow only vets get a bit of pitty for it. And not much more than just the bit of pitty to be honest.
I get it. I guess the problem is we all understand trauma from battlefield or many under estimate it. While with civilians "trauma" is getting more and more used and over used.
Your literally not missing anything.
I have PTSD. Several traumatic events stacked on top of each other made it worse honestly. So watching Crosshair trying to overcome his is...inspiring
Don't know why you'd want to serve in the first place these days
"Many have served in the military"
That line hit me hard since I've been rewatching SWTCW while waiting to exit the military.
I'm waiting to get in, cleared for active duty.
@@MrDK0010 hope you get what you want out of it.
@@wwobbles Thank you
I have PTSD from watching my body just... wither from Leukemia and coming within according to doctors " about ten to fifteen minutes of death if the doctors didn't shoot me full of a hero's dose of chemo. "
And I'll have horrible nightmares of waking up in the hospital bed barely able to move again, or being diagnosed with a relapse of Leukemia and knowing I can't win a second round against it.
@Khornecussion I know this was 6 days ago but I have had Leukemia twice and I also have those problems the best thing that I have found to work and calm me down is knowing that there is a new therapy that is extremely effective and isn’t chemo called T-Cell therapy and I took part of the trials and It works amazing so try I know it’s hard but try to not over stress about it cause you can’t control it and it gets better with time I promise you. Stay strong cause I know you are and good luck out there
Because of where I'm at right now, I realize something important:
The clones basically experienced Helldivers vs automatons for real.
Almost every battle was the creek too
@@Lieutenant_MatrixUbara was the Creek
The fact that the Coruscant stationed clone troopers react too, hints to the dreams being part of them regardless of the clone being at the frontlines. Being stationed on Coruscant should keep the exposure to war at a minimum.
I thought “the dreams” was about killing the Jedi in order 66?
@@pokaface564That would be a possibility, if not for the other orders implanted in the chip. Why would Order 66 stand out?
It's not as though Coruscant was entirely peaceful, especially on the lower levels. With that many people, conflict is inevitable. I wouldn't be surprised if the Coruscant Guard dealt with a gang war or something similar at one point.
@@caninelupus8369 The police used to hunt Ahsoka, when she was hiding down there, weren't clones. Not that the Coruscant guard couldn't be involved with dealing with gangs, as you suggest.
"Just like the simulations."
Fun Fact: Before the prequel trilogy, when there was no information about the clone wars people use to think that Obi-Wan was a clone & that his name was a play on his “designation” OB-1 (OB standing for something like original body). Even though it’s untrue it’s a cool example of the fans showing interest in the wider lore & developing head cannon.
That's the first time I've heard that Obi-Wan theory and I've been a Star Wars fan since I was 6. So 1989
@@jeremiahmorris1852 I've heard it a lot, but only on the internet from people who say they heard it back then, but they're probably mostly 20 year olds
It's wild that the clone wars are now the most-explored era of all SW history at this point
@@cloudmaster182yeah I've heard of it, but like you said only recently on the internet. I literally grew up with Star Wars seen the first one at age 11 and nobody ever thought Obi-Wan was a clone😂😂
@Wyomingchief - I remember hearing some fellow nerds talking about the OB-1 theory at a comic convention in the mid 90s. And this was when the interwebs was in its infancy, and "social media" wasn't a thing at all yet.
They also thought that the Mandalorians would play a huge role in the Prequels, which kind of turned out to be true...from a certain point of view.
When Tup's chip activates, the boys in the 501st discuss whether it might be some kind of combat fatigue and Kix says something along the lines of "You know we were bred to be resistant to that kind of thing." ...but I guess resistant does not equal immune, and the amount and intensity of the horrific experiences piled on the clones is just too much to overcome.
There's another disturbing thing about the Clones themselves. Remember that they are the result of accelerated ageing, but in spite of how they look, there is (at best) a 10 to 13 year old boy inside the body going through all of this. Quite literally an army of adult-looking children.
This has been one of the clearest PTSD explanations, for civilians, I have seen on the web
I still have PTSD from when a close friend of mine died to basically even talking about it or anything stressful gives me flashbacks
👍
I’ve only had a couple flashbacks but it’s only when inebriated.
Each of the clones hold a special place in our hearts.
Except Fox, especially Fox
The clones seemed to take on personality traits from thier generals, 501st was more daring and wreckless thanks to anakin, 212th was thoughtful and strategic under Obi-wan, the corusant guard had Palpatine...
Kinda sad how he died though. Choked by Vader in an instant because he forgot to tell his troops that this one lightsaber wielding scary guy in armor was not, in fact, a Jedi, and on the Empire's side.
I love my Clone brethren, but yeah, we don't like him, not even Vader
@@yumallah To Vader, it was personal. Fox was the man who killed one of Vader's closest clone friends, Fives.
Some people actually like Fox
I'm a US Army Veteran. I served during peace time. I had a period of harassment when I served that when I retell it to someone who will listen I'll "re-live" it and my heart beats out of my chest. I made a service connected claim on it and since I couldn't sit down and write it out or tell it the VA denied my claim. Though weeks before I had to endure the examination I had a huge panic attack and had to go on some heart medication for most of a year. I'm also in a Veteran Support Group that meets every week. Most of the Vets in it are Vietnam Era and man those guys went thru Hell then when they returned they went through some more Hell on the home front. There is a guy in it that I believe was a Navy SEAL and he complains of suffering from PTSD for the last 30 yrs. He's also highly critical of the VA which seems to have a policy of drugging up people who suffer from mental trauma. I think a lot of it is spiritual in nature because when the drugs wear off there's this person who seems possessed who can't sit still or is bent on a self destructive course of action.
I've suggested to the people in the Mental Health Department they should have intramural sports there as we were trained as units and we should heal in units too.
Btw the series of books that I thought come close to the feeling of being in a military unit was the Republic Commando books by Karen Traviss. I'm also disappointed there wasn't more than one Republic Commando video game. Doesn't Disney just destroy everything they touch? Thanks for the video.
there was in fact a planned sequal in the works called Imperial Commando but yeah it got canned when the disney buyout happened
Didn’t Rex suffered PTSD when he discovered Kalani and his droid forces were still active on Agamar in Rebels?
He did.
And wolf when he met kanan and ezra
@@buffalowtBoth Kanan and Wolf immediately snapped back to Order 66.
Rex thought Cody was next to him, but i can't remember exactly what happened in that episode since it's been a while since i watched Rebels, but i can say that it was either Ezra or Kanan next to Rex, and not Cody. So yes, Rex definitely does have PTSD
Courage can’t exist without fear. To much fear can cause trauma. To much trauma leads to PTSD.
I suffer from CPTSD
the troopers are very human, no surprise with PTSD affecting them
I heard of one soldier describe his PTSD nightmares as being in Iraq, under fire or running from something. He'd watched a werewolf movie and had a dream of being chased through Baghdad by a werewolf. He knew it was a nightmare, that it didn't happen, but he couldn't stop running until he woke up.
Also the fact that when wrecker said that while he was trying to kill Omega, he was trapped inside his mind trying to stop himself. creepy stuff
I served in Syria and have PTSD. Never really thought about Clones getting it till we see the homeless clone in Kenobi. Great video
Nah. It comes on much earlier. When they lose Hevy. You see one of his squad mates crumble.
I never really noticed that about the scene when Tup was dying. The non-Clones in the room all looked to be confused or trying to figure out what he meant. Meanwhile the Clones seemed to be passing glances at each other in understanding. Even if they personally aren't having that recurring nightmare every Clone must know somebody who is.
Was having a horrible day and then I got the Generation Tech notif. God sent🙏
Hang in there man✨️
"The local crackhead has turned against you" 😂😂😂 what the actual hell dude
I hope Alan is not speaking from experience 😅😂
does this imply that the local crackhead used to be pretty chill?
Hmm. the fact that this didn't even come across as weird to me kinda makes me think. Hard to remember this isn't normal to a lot of folks. :)
A clone wars show about any of the other hundreds of clone units and other battles is all I want. We did not get to see enough clone wars in The Clone Wars, nor did we see half the vehicle and units from episode 3
In addition to combat PTSD, I bet a fair share of clones have TBIs (traumatic brain injuries) from the war. I feel like Crosshair might have developed a TBI from that Venator engineer in season 1 ripping his head open.
In WWI there was a British doctor who tried to treat PTSD for soldiers in the trenches. The problem was that 30% or more soldiers were starting to suffer from it, and rather than admit that there was a problem with what was happening on the front, they started to accuse the soldiers of cowardice and it became institutionalize procedure to not 'treat' it. Instead they used anesthetics like ether or chloroform, or even electroshock treatment.
Barbaric.
While conflated with PTSD during the first World War, during the second it was discovered that "Shell Shock" was its own distinct issue with it's own injuries and symptoms. The name stuck because its very apt. Shell Shock is a neurological injury caused by repeated exposure to sudden increases in overpressure. Individual physiology can greatly effect susceptibility. The symptoms are basically the same as for TBI plus issues with hearing, tinnitus and balance due to unner ear damage, but unlike TBI, can eventually go away if the patient is removed from any place they would be exposed to over pressure quickly enough.
Its mostly gone away in the modern war because of the weapons and tactics we use no longer rely on long term saturation shelling/bombing, the typical cause of Shell Shock.
It'd be interesting to see a study on the veterans of the War for Ukraine, considering the Russian reliance on artillery.
3M has agreed to pay $6 billion to resolve roughly 300,000 lawsuits alleging that the manufacturing company supplied faulty combat earplugs to the military that resulted in significant injuries, such as hearing loss.
Wouldn't that make 'Shell Shock' a subset of PTSD?
While there are differences, the combat in the trenches was brutal, so I would think that differentiating between the cases of Shell Shock and PTSD would be difficult.
Easier today with the advances in medical technology which can find the neural injury as well as the advances in psychology. I imagine you would have a lot of mixed cases, where you had to treat both conditions together. As well as isolated cases where you could assign only one of both treatments.
@@Dreamfox-df6bg no PTSD is completely psychological, Shell Shock is a physical injury and more closely related to TBI.
It is caused by being exposed to sudden, repeated, short lived increases in air pressure over a prolonged period.
The sudden increase and release of pressure disrupts neural function.
It's like hitting your head in a serious car accident.
Ptsd is a completely psychological ailment resulting from prolonged exposure to physical danger, or the sincere belief thereof. Evidence from WW1-Afghanistan also indicates that there is a social/cultural component as well in that if the patients are treated like moral pariahs or ignored like Viet Vets or Korean Vets, respectively rates of PTSD increase significantly and treatment is very difficult, while if they're treated like guys who "did what was needed" or heros like for the World War vets rates drop and treatment success rates skyrocket.
PTSD at this point appears to be a conflagration of multiple battle and social stress disorders with multiple causes and that seem to vary from individual to individual. The only real consistency is it being reaction to mental trauma. Even the symptoms are somewhat inconsistent once you get away from the MSM depiction. It makes some people into involuntary pacifists, unable to defend themselves, and then there's the patients it essentially turns into the Punisher, who typically go undiagnosed due to non stereotypical symptoms.
@@Dreamfox-df6bg also treatment is completely different. For SS just get them away from the pressure area quickly enough and they'll be fine. No therapy, maybe a mild sedative to knock them out while symptoms abate. If they've been exposed too long the neural damage will be permanent and show symptoms similar to Parkinson's.
PTSD *always* requires months to years of rehab as you're dealing with a "wiring issue" that requires shifting the patient's perspective away for hyper fixation on their trauma and its prevention. You don't really want to give drugs to these folks if possible. They generally don't react great, especially with SSRI class antidepressants. They aren't depressed they're *scared* and SSRIs are GREAT at pushing fear into rage & sadness into hopelessness when misprescribed.
Which leads to mass casualty events
I do like how you draw parallels between the fictional stories and real life. Without getting emotional, all I'll say is that I really appreciate that.
Ow, saw the title and my copyeditor brain bounced hard off the difference between “Clones can’t get PTSD right” and “Clones can’t get PTSD, right?” But it made me click, so-ok, ok, I’ll sit back down and be quiet and watch the vid.
Same trouble. Spelling, punctuation, misused words, it all screams at me whenever I read. Crazy!
Got into a couple of car crashes in less than one year. Yeah, I believe it can cause PTSD, as car crashes are now an all too often recurring nightmare and constant fear each time I'm on my M-F commute.😢
I love how genuinely education this channel can be. Well done!
When Attack of the Clones first came out, people couldn't figure out why I thought the 'mustering' scene... all the clone scenes in the whole movie for that matter, were sad. NOW, more people get it...
The Clone Wars especially The Bad Batch resonate with mine own experiences in the Army. I am a retired Green Beret and avid fan of everything Star Wars, but when I started down the path of The Clone Wars, I get a bit emotional. More when you see the random Clones we don’t get to meet die off. I feel at times feel the loss of those die hit the hardest.
Seeing the random Ukrainian and Russian soldiers isn’t something I find enjoyable. Understanding warfare is a thing, I now understand life being more complicated especially when there is conflict with opposing views.
As a Green Beret, our role was often like that of the Jedi. Serving many roles, military ambassadors, advisors, trainers, and leaders who fought alongside Host Nation troops. We provide additional support that the Host Nation often lacked as well as stand down with local leaders discussing ways to bring about peace in the regions we served.
Anyway, not to make this about me, this series definitely hit upon key points of my career and glad to see the silent issues addressed in the form of entertainment.
I dont know if the chip necessarily put the clones into a state rather than just plain overrode their motor functions altogether. Rex was visibly struggling, even was able to call off his men saying he would handle ashoka, before physically shaking from trying to fight off whatever was happening. It was like when it came to the jedi, they were hijacked. But with rebels, and bad batch, its shown that the clones can turn against the empire, which you would think the chips would render that impossible.
Being prior military these videos hit so hard
The tragedy of the clones had me in tears. Thank you for this video.
As a non-military guy with PTSD from childhood, I can tell that it changes your life whether you like it or not. Best to face up to it and learn how to live again.
The chip heightens stored trauma? Yo that’s dark. You should write for Star Wars.
The clone wars literally came out right after I PCS’d out of the military due to injuries suffered downrange. Being a Star Wars fan I watched. It cause it was Star Wars content but holy crap did the clone story arcs cement my love for the clones. It’s such a great medium to introduce complex issues surrounding war, soldiers, gov’t, politics, and sacrifice. The very means of what it is to be a soldier. So many arcs of that series resonate with me that it is still my heads down favorite piece of Star Wars and tv in general. I am loving the direction they have been taken it too with the batch, tales of the xxxx, and hopefully a rex show. Live to fight another day boys, life to fight another day….
I don't think I technically have PTSD, but childhood (and adult) trauma has definitely f**ked up my brain in the form of chronic anxiety, and trust and self esteem issues Sometimes I think chronic anxiety is the most hellish experience in existence. Would rather experience an hour of being-kicked-in-the-balls-pain everyday, TBH.
Watching this channel is a nice break from it all. Thanks Generation Tech guy! 🙏
As a veteran, I really like/ agree with what you said about it. we're not just changing our bodies but changing our minds/brains. I appreciate your viewpoint.🙏
Facing the horrors of war was easy. We did it together. But, failure to save your buddies...It burns into your soul. You lose your fear, become hyper focused on fighting, You push harder....
Folks back home see our behavior and are scared. And it only begins to make sense once we walk away and try to stop.
Working through it all. It takes years.
Best of luck.
Phil
Its crazy to think in a few years time you're told "You are the most advanced army ever created, literally. You were MADE to be the best, and you are." To "You have become problematic and too expensive. You are no longer needed, but will be used if you play by our rules, which have become incredibly self serving." PTSD was inevitable with all the sacrifices they made in the name of the Republic willingly and bravely, only to be considered toys that aren't wanted anymore.
I wonder how many clones had to live on coruscant after their retirement, considering how much the public has been turned against them.
Coruscant would probably be the worst place or one of the worst places for clone troopers to be, especially in the lower levels of the planet.Knowing that palpatine made them do many terrible things.
I really appreciate the PTSD portrayal in Clone Wars. A lot of PTSD focus is on trauma and violence. But people forget a lot of it can also be from not understanding what you’re doing and that you’re compelled to do it, aka military orders or parental abuse of authority.
This was a very sad but very well made video! Great job Alan! Keep up the good work!
Realizing too late that you were actually on the wrong side and you never had a choice in the matter.
The fact that the clones all had the mission, which I'm assuming is Order 66, on their mind all their life is disturbing.
As someone with PTSD, it is extremely hard to readjust to normal life and people because you never know who to trust.
Dude youre my favorite Star Wars channel you really put a lot of thought behind these and talk about a lot of stuff i never even considered.
David Drake wrote a fantastic book about future commandos dealing with PTSD and how they and he government dealt with it. The book was called “Red Liners”.
Felucia was PTSD.
"It's been said that the 501st got the best of the war. We also got the worst. On Felucia, the Seps dug their metal heels into the muck of that alien hellhole and dared the Republic to come in after them. So we did, only to be met with month after month of flesh-eating diseases, shrieking nocturnal predators, and other sights that haunt me to this day. Cut off, and for all we knew abandoned by our superiors, our only hope was Aayla Secura, our Jedi commander. Without her iron will, none of us would have come out of that mess with our sanity or our lives. When her death came, I hope it was quick. She earned that much."
I think this might be one of the best videos explaining how the clones inhibitor chips work and why the clones turned on the Jedi so quickly.
Literally teared up sympathizing with the clones
Remember the clone wars Episode when the Jedi got killed by the clone early in the war remember Rex had said that they where bread to withstand trauma
Of course surviving horrific battles like that would give them PSTD.
I with you Alan, I hope we get a bunch more clone content! Love action, animated, I don't care, just give us more clones!
I had strokes when I was little that caused brain damage. I became friends with this kid when I was in the hospital. Long story short I survived and he didn’t. Ever since I’ve blamed myself and seen him every time I sleep so I don’t sleep much. Idk if it’s PTSD but it sucks
I love your channel your so underrated
Its funny and a bit annoying at times when my college classmates find out I was in the Marines. One asked me once what was the worst thing I had ever expereinced while in. I usually dont say anything to negative, yet I was on new meds and I had a moment of vulnerability. I straight up said the worst thing I had expereinced was watching my friend die in my arms. Couldnt even hear crickets in the room.
I suffer from C-PTSD and your descriptions of PTSD are spot on! Well done!
Sometimes it makes me ligit cry because of how fucking deep the inhibitor chips by themselves go...man the dark side didn't fuck around
Great video! Loved your point about the inhibitor chips.
Also, there's no need for an apostrophe in the word "Troopers" in the title. 😊
Finn could’ve been a cool character but they wasted him 😩
Black guys in star wars are Always cool
I know, the concept was right there. A former stormtrooper turned Jedi would make a great trilogy
They should've made him the main character. A former Stormtrooper and have him made a vow of not killing his fellow Stormtroopers since like him, they all were strip away from their families as infants. And try to get them to see that they're not just mindless droids they were made to be.
I absolutely agree. There was SO MUCH potential there.
Thanks Alan for this topic. I glad you also
included non-vets who also suffer. Thankfully because they were looking at
Vets and their PTSD attention started to
be focus on non veg also. Good video🌹
One thing to keep in mind, PTSD can take YEARS to develop, say a car crash happened 6 years ago, you could be living your life, slightly shaken up for a few days only for it subside. Fast forward a few years, you can experience something else, and compounded with your previous experience, may result in the formation of PTSD. One case, a police officer who was at ground zero on 9/11, didn’t suffer any nightmares, until his brother passed away in a plane accident in the 2010s. His brother’s accident brought back the trauma of sept 1st, even tho it was years prior. Show some love to your local first responder, the job gets horrific at times
I found in most cases with First responders, it will typically start manifesting several years after moving on to a different line of work or retiring. And yes it's usually triggered by something mundane in a lot of cases
In most science fiction stories clones are seen as less than the original in spite of being a copy. And that's displayed often from the opening battle of the war.
So many lives lost in what ended up being a proxy war between the Jedi and the Sith.
Not even that. It was a proxy war between the Sith and the Sith.
While I was in the what happened to the Clones made me take a good long look in the mirror and ask myself “if I was ever in the same position would I ever know it?”
Always enjoy your down to earth delivery.
As a C-PTSD sufferer...thank you. 😢
Thanks for putting a sense of what really is going on in these shows (depicting horrible, long lasting, brutal war)
A live action series focusing on clones and the clone wars would be amazing and a dream come true
There’s a good example of this in American Sniper. When he’s back from a tour and at a birthday party, Chris’ PTSD kicks in and he finds himself ready to kill a kid that was being a nuisance. This isn’t him, it’s the trauma taking over his actions, much like what the inhibitor chips would have done to the clones.
The clones that “”retired”” need a series or something
Imagine a Clone Wars miniseries written by Lucas, Filoni, n Gilroy, directed by Spielberg, and produced by Tom Hanks like Band of Brothers but in space
That would've been golden.
Stop it
This would be far too good
I’m in
So.. what bad batch should have been?
great video per usual
I really hope there are more Clone stories. Honestly, the Clones are some of the best characters in all of cinema.
War, war never changes.
Great video. I am a military veteran myself and I relate with all of the key points you mentioned when discussing PTSD.
Clones are genetically modified against PTSD, when Tup gunned down General Tiplar on Ringo Vinda, Fives outright says that clones are designed to resist ANY combat stress.
Resist. Not be immune.
@@heavy5013 On Umbara, they were attacked by steam punk, new age, centipede tanks from hell, forced to walk through live minefields, attacked by subterranean penis plant monsters, subjected to needless loss of life, subjected to the needless execution of their own brothers for illegitimate reasons, tricked into killing and being killed by their own comrades, and had their world view of the Jedi shattered. All in one day.... I think if PTSD were possible, it might have shown itself then. But no, the clones didn't shut down, they got angry and then got even.
@starkdilemma4916 And you ignore the moments of legitimate PTSD that appear later, most notably in Rebels with Rex.
And it's very possible some did develop it from Umbara but were never shown. There were hundreds or thousands of Clones involved.
They're not immune. Clones can be affected by the trauma of war.
Well they ARE still human! Crosshair has it for sure!
Also definitely a live action Clone Wars series with the clones sounds amazing!
i agree with you we need that
I would love to see a band of brothers style series of certain unpopular clone battalion on an invasion of like Minbam or something
Every major Star Wars fan knows Sidious most heinous crime wasn’t the extermination of the Jedi. It wasn’t even blowup up Andor it was what he did to the clone troopers.
The entirety of Palpatine/Darth Sidious’s existence could probably be labeled as “one very long and horrible crime against life and sentience across the galaxy.”
This is why I love the Clone War
It's more down to earth for both kids and adults could enjoy
Besides mandaloria, the other series are not interesting
They're more like Saturday am shows 😐
Seeing that clone in Kenobi was the second best part of the whole series. It hurt so good.
i almost feel like we could get a "Jacob ladder" level of movie with a story about a stormtrooper with PTSD
Or you could read...basically any David Drake book. Like Redliners, or The Reaches trilogy, or Hammer's Slammers, or...
@@EGRJ ngl, never gave a shot to star war related books, and i should.
@@deathangellink Those are all independent books, but a lot of Drake's work was about PTSD, and it probably won't surprise you when I say he served in 'Nam.
If you want a Star Wars book specifically, try Shatterpoint, which is basically Heart of Darkness in Star Wars. It's also a good book in general.
The Clone Wars did inpart, motivate my eventual enlistment into the Army. 0:46
Yes! We need a live action of the clones.👍🏾💯 That's another series.
One theory I heard about why we have nightmares (or dreams in general) is because our brains are running through scenarios that worry us and we are trying to plan how to handle them. Of course if we can't find a solution to the scenario that is going to make the nightmare worse.
Became a diabetic in 2012. I battled and was failing to keep it under control. After 5 years my personality became destructive in many different ways. Then COVID happened. I wound up getting COVID and ended up going into Diabetic Ketoacidosis & Pancreatitis. Ended up in ICU. I was pumped full of morphine. I woke up 5 days laters and I haven't been the same since mentally and emotional. Since then I have had severe depression, diagnosed as bipolar and also diagnosed with severe PTSD. So yeah, that is all going on all while trying to maintain my diabetes. Fun stuff lol...
Is pancreatitis related to diabetes?
@@Hello-bi1pm Yes, pancreatitis can be connected to diabetes, although it's not always clear how. Nor is it mutually exclusive. One can have either and it not be a result of the other and vice versa. For me it was during the pandemic. I got Covid-19 and ended up in ICU for Diabetic Ketoacidosis / Pancreatitis. That was 7/2020 and I haven’t been the same since.
A clone retirement planet should have been part of the program. Also, I have never been frightened into doing parkour.
Altered or not, they're still human, so I'd say yes, definitely, especially given all they've been through 😟
Another factor that plays into the idea of them being outnumbered and almost constantly on the front lines is that a lot of times PTSD doesn't present itself until the person has left the combat zone or the service, Although ofcourse their exceptions but I always thought that the real problems would start post war when the clones are discharged.
Sometimes, it could take years to develop, which, would probably extra screwed up, just going about your life, the wars years behind, and then one night, you’re back there again
Hi @generationtech
I agree!
My thought lately has been that the inhibitor chip has two hand in hand functions, to suppress higher thoughts and to enhance specific signals.
As consciousness is electrical signaling, habits are like more active paths, and strong reinforced habits, I.e. addictions are like superhighways these signals travel from dendrites to axions.
Watching how the regular clones slowly regressed after order 66 makes me think the inhibitor looses effectiveness after it was activated. Like how when substance use over time causes a decreased effect due to the brain trying to rebalance.
(Too much of a neurotransmitter present, the brain makes more receptor sites to use it so it’s not in surplus which happens with Nicotine for example)
The inhibitor chip causes certain paths to be followed for an effect , anger fear against Jedi plus the need to’ scratch an itch’
Rex was able to slow it down only because he was conscious of this from fives and tup.
Any thoughts?
A viable explanation and worthwhile exploration. Very nice job.